Meidas Health: Dr. Gupta’s Deep Dive with AFT President Randi Weingarten

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Speaker 5 Midas Mighty, welcome to another episode of Midas Health. Really excited to have our next guest, Randy Weingarten, join us.

Speaker 5 Randy, I've gotten to know Randy over the course of the last several years, especially during COVID and ever since. And she needs no introduction.

Speaker 5 She's one of the nation's leading public sector officials. I mean, she leads one of the most influential, if not the most influential labor union in the country.
It touches public school teachers.

Speaker 5 They represent doctors and nurses across the spectrum. It doesn't get more influential than Randy Weingarten.
And she's going to be talking to us about her new book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers.

Speaker 5 Her perspectives there. And this broadly, so much happening right now in healthcare, healthcare policy, to get her take.

Speaker 5 Again, she represents the interests of nurses and doctors across the country, so there's no better voice. But without further ado, I'm going to bring Randy on to stage.

Speaker 5 Randy, thanks so much for joining Minus Health.

Speaker 1 I am so glad to be with you. Thank you, Vin.
And I am so, again, I'm so sorry about the passing of your mom.

Speaker 5 Well, you know,

Speaker 5 for our listeners, my beloved mom passed away unexpectedly a few weeks ago and she's a neonatologist.

Speaker 5 And there's so much I want to say and one day I will say, but

Speaker 5 one of the things she did tell my brother and I was, I mentioned this to Randy, is that if anything happened to her, she said to continue with your work after taking a week off, and which is why I'm here with Randy.

Speaker 5 Randy, there's so much that you and I,

Speaker 5 I know we talk about a lot, but for the Midas Touch audience, I want to first talk about your book and

Speaker 5 why fascists fear teachers.

Speaker 1 Why is you writing?

Speaker 1 And, you know, I don't even have a copy with me.

Speaker 1 I normally use it, lift it up, have a copy of it. With,

Speaker 1 you know, I'll see if I can get it before the end of this

Speaker 1 session. I wrote it for two reasons.
I wrote it as a warning.

Speaker 1 I think that in the last several weeks, as you

Speaker 1 as we've seen

Speaker 1 the Trump administration disappear people this

Speaker 1 last couple of days. There was a teacher in Chicago who was just taken by ICE.

Speaker 1 But the disappearing of people by these mass men,

Speaker 1 this

Speaker 1 indictment of enemies, the militarization of streets, all of this

Speaker 1 is what happens in countries that are not democratic.

Speaker 1 Millions of people on the street basically protesting and saying no kings, prop 50 just passing in California. I mean, so I wrote it when I wrote it a year ago.

Speaker 1 I was warning

Speaker 1 about

Speaker 1 the backsliding of democracy and

Speaker 1 issues around or descriptions of fascistic behavior. I had hoped we would never get to this point, but that was number one.

Speaker 1 And I watched in the election leading up to November 2024,

Speaker 1 you know, when

Speaker 1 people like General Milley and General Kelly attempted to warn the country

Speaker 1 about what happens when there's democratic backsliding, what happens in governments that are fascistic or authoritarian or

Speaker 1 believe in the rule of one, not the rule of law? What happens in terms of the erosion of freedom? I didn't actually, I had hoped we'd never get to

Speaker 1 a point that is so scary as to write now. So that was number one.
Number two, I wrote because

Speaker 1 you know me quite well, Vin,

Speaker 1 which is

Speaker 1 For every problem,

Speaker 1 we have to be out there with a solution.

Speaker 1 Part of what happens in terms of fiscalistic behavior is they exacerbate the governments that believe in that, authoritarians, the rule of one, they exacerbate fear, they exacerbate problems, they don't solve problems.

Speaker 1 And what is clear to me from my life in education

Speaker 1 is that

Speaker 1 educators

Speaker 1 and frankly, I would argue a labor movement, they are part of the solutions to helping people have a better life. And if we look at really, truly what's going on in the country,

Speaker 1 and you could see it from the election, people want a better life.

Speaker 1 They want their government not to be retaliatory, not to take away their freedoms, not to be autocratic.

Speaker 1 They want their government to solve problems like the cost of groceries, like the cost of housing, so that people can get ahead, so that our next generation

Speaker 1 can do better than our generation. And so I wrote the book as a warning, but also

Speaker 1 as an antidote

Speaker 1 to what is ailing America right now. And that is public school teachers are the hope of America.
They are the people who are creating the kind of habits of democracy.

Speaker 1 So, why do fascists fear teachers? They fear teachers because teachers create safe and welcoming environments.

Speaker 1 They create the kind of habits of democracy, like pluralism, and they help kids have the skills and knowledge, particularly critical thinking and problem solving, so that kids themselves have the agency to soar, so that kids don't have to rely on the strongman leader to have a life that kids themselves in the tradition of America can do better than their parents and can actually be the future of an American, a robust American democratic society.

Speaker 1 But it all starts with what teachers do and what parents do in terms of kids' lives.

Speaker 5 Randy, take us.

Speaker 1 through

Speaker 5 the book. I know I want everybody to

Speaker 5 go on their favorite, either into their favorite bookstore or online.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get up and see that. I'll be right back.
So you see it.

Speaker 5 No, so we're waiting for Randy to get a copy of her book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers.

Speaker 5 And I'm going to wait for the T up here, but for our listeners,

Speaker 5 there it is. Perfect.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I don't want you to bury the lead here by any means, and I want folks to read the whole whole piece of work. And mine is incoming as we speak.

Speaker 5 I'm curious if you can walk us through

Speaker 5 some of the key points in the book. And

Speaker 5 specifically, you know, people see what's happening with the Department of Education. They see what's happening just in terms of

Speaker 5 support for public education. from this administration.
It seems like it's weakening.

Speaker 5 Are we, is this a one-way door? Can can we go back

Speaker 1 yes i mean look i i think that what we've learned from um history

Speaker 1 is that um even though it gets harder and harder the longer there is democratic backsliding um

Speaker 1 i have great trust and belief in the american people that once they see what's going on and they understand what is happening,

Speaker 1 we can turn this around. I really believe that.
But in terms of

Speaker 1 education per se,

Speaker 1 so, you know, education is the foundation stone of democracy. The founding fathers actually, and yes, they were all fathers.

Speaker 1 And I don't, you know, I don't want to put them up on a pedestal, but they, 200, almost 250 years ago, they understood that education was a bulwark against tyranny.

Speaker 1 And every single state in America believes in having an education system. And

Speaker 1 there were two twin, very foundational Supreme Court decisions that interpreted our Constitution to give a right

Speaker 1 to a free and fair education to every student in America, documented and undocumented.

Speaker 1 Those two cases are Brown versus Board of Education and Plyler versus Doe. And so

Speaker 1 American children have a right to public education. Where

Speaker 1 both where,

Speaker 1 thank you,

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 both

Speaker 1 Donald Trump and Linda McGrant are both right and wrong is that American education unlike

Speaker 1 in many European countries, are not controlled by the federal government. They are controlled by a system of local school boards and state governments all across the country.

Speaker 1 It's basically state governments that make curriculum decisions, that make financial decisions about schools, that set standards.

Speaker 1 The federal role, starting with the civil rights laws and with frankly Lyndon Johnson and before that, the Brown case itself, which said the the separate but equal is not equal.

Speaker 1 It is inherently unequal. The federal role is basically to make sure that

Speaker 1 kids who have been left behind are not left behind anymore. So, and the way in which it's been

Speaker 1 operationalized over the years is through the Johnson administration, they gave us money to actually ensure that poor kids could have a level playing field.

Speaker 1 The Bush administration decided to make it more punitive with no child left behind and say there has to be assessments to assess that. And the Obama administration did a little bit of both.

Speaker 1 And the Biden administration, you know, went back to trying to give us money to try to make sure that the civil rights aspects, like, so for example, that kids who have disabilities need to not be in the shadows, but need to actually have a decent education.

Speaker 1 And that may mean mean if a kid has a physical disability, that is a school system making sure that the kid has access to school.

Speaker 1 You can't put a kid who has a physical disability on the third floor of

Speaker 1 a building if there's no elevator and you can't get up the stairs if the kid is in a wheelchair. I mean, so when we're talking about the federal role, The federal role has always been limited.

Speaker 1 It's not, it's about funding. It's about civil rights.
And so when, you know, so when somebody says, well, can we go back? Look, what does the, you know, what did Linda McMahon and Donald Trump do?

Speaker 1 They want to get rid of the Department of Education. You know, you want to make it more efficient? Of course.
Everybody, government should be more efficient.

Speaker 1 We all want government to be more efficient. But it's essentially saying.
we want to get rid of the right for kids with disabilities to have a shot at education. And that's why we fight it.

Speaker 1 It's like they want to get rid of all the student loan work that for years

Speaker 1 the federal government has done to try to make college more affordable. They want to get rid of things like Title I,

Speaker 1 which was championed by Lyndon Johnson. I write about this a lot in my book, because, you know, kids who are poor should have a chance to level the playing field.
So when, so what is it that

Speaker 1 McMahon and Trump are really doing?

Speaker 1 They're actually trying

Speaker 1 to harm kids who have been left behind. It's kind of like getting rid of SNAP

Speaker 1 or taking away the Obama tax credits and watching without caring that healthcare premiums are going to double, triple, quadruple for people.

Speaker 1 And instead of helping the 43 million people who need food assistance or helping the millions of kids who come to school, you know, that need extra help for reading or need to lower class size or because their parents can't afford devices to have the devices at school or wanting to make sure we can expand Medicaid or expand child health, you know, this administration basically says none of that is is a priority for them.

Speaker 1 Instead, tax cuts are a priority for them. So they cut all of the stuff.
So that's

Speaker 1 so. So, can you turn it around with another administration? Sure.
But what happens to the kid in kindergarten right now? What happens to the kid with a disability right now?

Speaker 1 Kids don't go through, you know, kindergarten twice or three times.

Speaker 1 They're not five years old three times. There's no do-overs for them.
It has a real effect.

Speaker 5 Brandy, you know, just in listening as you talk.

Speaker 5 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 It's just so pissed. That this is an administration for the rich, not an administration for America.
And you, and, and, and, and working people just want a chance, level the playing field.

Speaker 1 That's what the, the, the federal government's role in education was supposed to be.

Speaker 5 And for our audience here, we're talking to Randy Weingarten, who I like to introduce as one of the most influential people in America for all the right reasons. She's a dear friend, a colleague.

Speaker 5 And Randy, and we're talking about her book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers. Please order it.
Go to a favorite local bookshop.

Speaker 5 Randy, you know, one thing of many things I admire about you and the ways in which we got to know each other is you're not afraid to speak up. And

Speaker 5 especially when others are afraid to speak up for what's right. And obviously, you and I have had the chance to do a lot of, I think, fantastic work together on health advocacy, health information.

Speaker 5 But I'm wondering, as we saw yesterday, it's November the 5th, November the 4th, pretty incredible results for the Democratic Party yesterday. It feels like more people have a backbone now

Speaker 5 to speak up. But when

Speaker 5 there was a lot of fear, more fear.

Speaker 5 Even a few months ago, it was Randy Weingarten and Gary and not many others out there fighting the fight, writing the book,

Speaker 5 helping to partner with me on

Speaker 5 health topics. What gives you, what motivates you? And how has your leadership style changed? Has it changed at all in the last, say, eight months?

Speaker 1 So I'm not, so Vin, you know,

Speaker 1 I love the fact, and we should actually tell people this, that when we started seeing

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 basically the federal government

Speaker 1 pull away from its commitment to getting people

Speaker 1 accurate health information,

Speaker 1 when we started, when we said,

Speaker 1 can we do something together, particularly since the AFT is the second largest nurse union, we represent doctors now, and

Speaker 1 we represent

Speaker 1 people who work with kids all throughout america in public schools in public services and hospitals and we started this monthly you know work vital lessons to try to get people accurate public health information and and you know so so

Speaker 1 i really have appreciated our partnership in this

Speaker 1 I think what happens is that,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 and maybe this is the social studies teacher in me. It could be the labor activist in me.

Speaker 1 When you have an administration

Speaker 1 that actually wants

Speaker 1 to change the rules of this country to essentially

Speaker 1 undermine the freedom of people,

Speaker 1 wants to remake the country, That's what we have.

Speaker 1 And it is, it's, and Project 2025 told us this,

Speaker 1 but think about the lies of the administration, what Trump said. Oh, no, I don't know anything about Project 2025.
And he has two people high in the administration.

Speaker 1 who basically are the architects of Project 2025, Stephen Miller and Russell Voigt.

Speaker 1 And so first he lied to the American people, but the American people

Speaker 1 bought what he was selling because of their anxiety, because of the fact that

Speaker 1 most people in America no longer feel like the promise of America applies to them.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 part of what we've done as a union is to not be mad at people, but to try to reconnect in community with people to say, look, the promise of America should be real. We should have an ability

Speaker 1 to thrive.

Speaker 1 Healthcare is actually essential to that. Education is essential to that.
So are good jobs.

Speaker 1 So what we've tried to do as a labor union is to say, here's a path to the future, but we got to fight for it together. It can't just be you, Vin.
It can't just be me.

Speaker 1 And so my leadership is about trying to model

Speaker 1 engaging in community and lifting people up and having the strength, the fortitude to stand up, show up. fight back on

Speaker 1 things that are American values.

Speaker 1 And so it's dignity and democracy. It's affordability and opportunity.
And what we've learned, and I think we've learned this in every movement, is that you need to be in community with others.

Speaker 1 You can't do it alone. And the autocrat is doing the opposite.
The autocratic playbook,

Speaker 1 the person who wants to be a rule of one, not a rule of law,

Speaker 1 they basically operate through fear, through isolation, and through apathy. And what we are trying to do is operate through bringing people together over issues of common concern and fighting for it.

Speaker 1 And that's what you saw in the election this week.

Speaker 1 But you also saw it on No Kings and you saw a week and a half of Mike Johnson and others trying to basically scare the Bejizas out of people to not go to No Kings. Oh, they're terrorists.

Speaker 1 Oh, they're Hamas supporters. Oh, they're, I mean, like for weeks until the hostages

Speaker 1 were, you know, arrived back in Israel, I wore a necklace that said, you know, bring them home.

Speaker 1 And then, like, how dare you call those of us who care about freedom, terrorists or Hamas supporters, both of which we are completely condemn.

Speaker 1 But that's calling them names, creating fear, isolation, apathy. That's the playbook of the autocrats.
The playback, the playbook that I have is how we create community,

Speaker 1 how we listen and lead, how we fight together for the things that

Speaker 1 Americans need so that they...

Speaker 1 can get ahead and their families will have a better life the next generation than we had our generation. That goes back to affordability, opportunity, dignity, and democracy.

Speaker 5 Well, if I can say in reaction, I think what you do so well, and what's so poignant in your comments,

Speaker 5 and what I've tried to emulate, at least in the healthcare field, is consistency.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 5 it's really,

Speaker 5 it's been,

Speaker 5 it's been an outrage. I mean, to use the word, to to watch many of

Speaker 5 my peers, leaders in healthcare,

Speaker 1 stay mute

Speaker 5 over the last eight months or fear speaking out on basic foundational facts of the profession of medicine when I think it's ever been more important to do so.

Speaker 5 And the lack of consistency to me is exactly what builds mistrust. And what you're doing, Randy, and what I think you and I have done together where there's clear traction is be consistent.

Speaker 5 And are we going to reach everybody? Of course, but nobody reaches everybody.

Speaker 5 But I do feel in the feedback I've gotten on vital lessons, on the work that we're doing together, what I've seen you do, is that consistency matters, courage matters.

Speaker 5 That actually, when you do it and

Speaker 5 you don't waver based on political headwinds and what's popular,

Speaker 5 is that people notice that and that doesn't

Speaker 5 there is something really, really

Speaker 5 resonant with that approach.

Speaker 5 It's on that topic, I do want to pivot.

Speaker 5 You're one of the nations,

Speaker 5 again,

Speaker 5 I can't think of somebody more that has wider reaches.

Speaker 1 We'll get you everywhere today.

Speaker 5 But you know, it's we're, you're right, we're on the on the wake of what I thought was a very transformational day yesterday for the country and the Democratic Party.

Speaker 1 You're

Speaker 5 I know your day is busy.

Speaker 5 Talk to us about this moment and what you think people are needing to hear when it comes to persuading them to vote in their own self-interest.

Speaker 5 And I think a lot about healthcare because I feel like every four to eight years, Mandy, we constantly seem to have the same.

Speaker 5 It looks slightly different based on the year, but we're talking about access, affordability. How much do your drugs cost?

Speaker 5 And we've been having that conversation since the Lyndon Johnson administration, if not Truman, just being a history of this or a student of this,

Speaker 5 the history of healthcare policy, it doesn't seem like it ever goes away. What are we not getting right about

Speaker 5 the message to vote in your own self-interest when it comes to specifically issues of healthcare?

Speaker 1 Well, I think that

Speaker 1 we discount the fact that culture plays a huge role

Speaker 1 in everything that happens in communities and everything that happens in terms of elections.

Speaker 1 And when I say culture, I mean,

Speaker 1 you know, people

Speaker 1 think that they're voting in their own self-interest. It's very, you got to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be.

Speaker 1 And I think that when

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 we see, particularly take healthcare.

Speaker 1 You know, healthcare, healthcare, and I don't want to get into right now, you know, should we have Medicaid, Medicare for all or not? There's, you know, lots of reasons why

Speaker 1 you can't,

Speaker 1 once you've settled on a private insurance as the basis for a healthcare system,

Speaker 1 it's very hard. for that system to change in a way that creates consistency in a you know in a in a good way and that reduces costs.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 that's so I don't want to, and I'm not sitting here saying we should adopt a Medicare, a Medicare for all system, even though personally, you know, I support it.

Speaker 1 But the, you know, the

Speaker 1 problem we have in terms of healthcare in America, it's too damn expensive and it's too profit-driven.

Speaker 1 And so, and whether it's healthcare or whether it's drugs, it's too damn expensive and it's too profit-driven. And as a result,

Speaker 1 we're constantly dealing with

Speaker 1 how do we reduce the costs on individual consumers

Speaker 1 at the same time

Speaker 1 as

Speaker 1 you know, medicine has gotten, frankly, better and better and drugs and what drugs cover have gotten better and better.

Speaker 1 But the profit motive has meant that the marginal dollar goes there.

Speaker 1 And then who pays the cost of it? And I think that's the issue that you have,

Speaker 1 you know, every,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you know, periodically, I mean, routinely, not even periodically, now it's routinely. Think about

Speaker 1 how much effort it took

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 1 Biden to just cap

Speaker 1 diabetes drugs at 35 bucks for people who are over 65 years old. How much, you know, we just, we were joyful that Medicare could negotiate 10 drugs.

Speaker 1 And then how long it took to get those negotiations going and how that process. And think about how Hillary Clinton tried to, you know, change health care and how that got, you know,

Speaker 1 she got, you know,

Speaker 1 she just got killed during that process. How Obama used literally all of his political capital on getting to Obamacare.

Speaker 1 And how now, you know, the way in which the Republicans in Congress are trying to kill it is by getting rid of the tax credits and seeing how,

Speaker 1 you know, where it's, where it's gone.

Speaker 1 You know, the costs.

Speaker 5 Do you feel that we are in a moment, given the events of November the 4th,

Speaker 1 we're,

Speaker 5 are you optimistic about the midterms in 2028?

Speaker 1 Look, there's a lot of stuff that's going to happen between now and 2026. And frankly, if we don't get through 2026, we're not going to have an election in 2028.

Speaker 1 So I don't, but I am sorry, I'm wearing a pro-student, pro-teacher t-shirt.

Speaker 1 But I am hopeful that what I saw in the last 24 hours is the American people basically said to its political actors,

Speaker 1 remember us, affordability, that's the issue. And they voted for

Speaker 1 people. who cared about trying to address the cost of living.
And they also said they were really uncomfortable with Trump's abuses of power.

Speaker 1 And so they basically said, remember us, that's who you work for. Work on cost of living issues.
Work on affordability. Work on the promise of America.
Don't work on your own cronyism or

Speaker 1 don't just work for the rich dudes. So that's what I think they said.
And they also said they were really uncomfortable with Trump's abuses of power. But at the same time, Trump has the presidency.

Speaker 1 He basically has the Supreme Court. And he has the Congress.

Speaker 1 So he has all the different levers of government that the founding fathers basically said they tried to divide up all those powers so that it wouldn't all be in one person's hand. So we have

Speaker 1 a lot of work to still do for we, the people,

Speaker 1 to have the power over the course of the next year as expressed by the elections in 2026. There's still a lot of work to do.
Am I hopeful because of how many people came out for no kings? Yes.

Speaker 1 Am I hopeful because of what just happened in terms of these elections? Yes. But there's a very long road to hoe.

Speaker 1 And when you have a president of the United States that cares more about himself than and his,

Speaker 1 and, and, and, and, you know and and look he said it he told people when he was running that he would be their retaliation that he want you know that he wanted to retaliate against others but do you know but the people basically sent a message that they want the people's agenda we the people's agenda not Donald Trump's agenda.

Speaker 1 So hopeful, yes, but we got to show up on the streets. We have to be engaged.
We have to fight for what people need for a better life for themselves and their families.

Speaker 5 Randy, you always make me feel better whenever we have the chance to chat and do shared work together. I want to thank you, Randy Weingarten, president.

Speaker 5 CEO of the American Federation of Teachers, AFT, one of the largest labor unions in the country, and author of Why Fascists Fear Teachers. Please go out and get it.

Speaker 8 Randy, thank you so much for joining midas hell thank you so much finn thank you want to stay plugged in become a subscriber to our sub stack at midasplus.com you'll get daily recaps from ron filipowski ad-free episodes of our podcast and more exclusive content only available at midasplus.com

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