Michael & The Diddy Escort: “Diddy Watched the Whole Time” | Shawn Dearing

This episode is brought to you by Life Lock.

Between two-factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected.

But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful.

That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats.

If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back.

Save up to 40% your first year.

Visit lifelock.com/slash podcast for 40% off.

Terms apply.

Choosing a bottled Starbucks Frappuccino drink that's all flavor in just 100 calories?

Easy.

Choosing between creamy vanilla, double chocolate, and sea salt caramel flavors?

A little harder.

Try the delicious new Starbucks Frappuccino light drinks.

Look for them wherever you buy groceries.

Start with Starbucks Coffee.

At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments.

It's about you, your style, your space, your way.

Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right.

From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows.

Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than windows is you.

Visit blinds.com now for up to 40% off-site-wide, plus a professional measure at no cost.

Rules and restrictions apply.

So I don't know who I'm seeing.

And so I show up to the address, I go up to the door, knock, and she opens the door.

So you say it's very performative.

She's like, okay, sit there.

She puts a towel down.

She's like, hey, just throw, pour the baby oil all over me.

I see like the little slit in the room.

There were times in the sessions where I saw that demon, the demon that she talked about.

Personal demon, you know, these are the demons that are afflicting me.

Or Diddy.

Yeah, Diddy.

You actually did this stuff.

Your name and your picture were revealed in court.

Revealed in court, and then it started to go mainstream when 50 posted that picture.

So this guy is a sex crazed animal.

She was then under his control.

Because there's a video of him beating her in a hallway.

I was supposed to be there there that night.

I'm supposed to.

P.

Diddy has gotten off the hook for the worst charges that he faced pertaining to his freak offs and weird sex parties over decades.

But nobody denies that those parties happened, that he engaged in depraved, crazy sexual activities, that he had his girlfriends sleep with multiple men who were hired for the occasion.

And I am right now joined by one of those men.

That would be Sean Deering.

Sean, thank you for being here.

Pleasure to meet you, Michael.

Pleasure to meet you.

Thank you for flying in for this.

P.

Diddy beat the tough charges, even though all the things he's accused of doing

Maybe not the crimes, but the activities, the parties, the sex, everything.

No one denies that he actually did those things.

He did them for decades.

And you're one of the guys he hired to sleep with his girlfriend.

Yeah.

How'd you get into that?

I lived in L.A.

prior to that.

I'm born and raised in Hawaii.

And I was figuring out where I'm headed with life.

Tried college, three and a half years, didn't exactly find my way.

And after that, decided to join the workforce.

One thing I realized, I love serving.

So I started out serving restaurants and such.

And it was kind of like a rolling ball effect.

I just tried to make the most of it.

So from there I was working in Southern California for a bit and a friend of mine helped open up a valet venture in Vegas.

So from there I got into the bar industry and then the bar industry

I was introduced to a wonderful girlfriend that thought I should model one day.

I thought she was joking when she asked me because I look in the mirror and I don't know.

I see a funny looking guy.

I look at.

I think, you know, I thought she was joking with me.

So she challenged me to model.

She said she knew photographers and stuff.

And I said, babe, if you think I can model, I'm going to give it my all.

Like

Mr.

William Hung is a

lifelong idol of mine.

You know, the she bang, she bangs.

You know, I remember watching that, and that guy lit me up.

And one thing he said is, everything I do, I give it my best.

And so

I'm kind of that way.

You know, that kind of stuck with me.

And I just tried to give everything I had in modeling.

And then that led to a profile on Model Mayhem.

You remember Model Mayhem?

I've heard the name of it.

It's sort of the, I think it's like the old school MySpace style of the model industry.

Okay, yeah.

Go in, put your profile on there.

It was Explore Talent.

Model Mayhem.

I remember there were these go make it big in show business kind of websites.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, kind of the beginning of the pipeline, I guess you would say.

And so my girlfriend had me put my profile on there.

And so I do.

And I thought it was a, you know, i'm gonna go i'm gonna get it my best and i tried i put it on there and then a few months later get a message from mr garren james who is the uh the guy who owns the company cowboys for angels

I thought it was a joke.

I thought it was spam.

I thought somebody wanted me to send them more pictures and be like, hey, I'm interested in you.

So I showed my girlfriend and I was like, hey, look, this guy's messaging me.

And her and I had come across some of his episodes of that Showtime show, Gigolo, in the past.

Hold on.

So, so I'm not totally familiar with Cowboys for Angels or or the Gigolo show.

What this agency is a...

It sounds like it's a Gigolo agency.

Yes.

Well, the proper term would be a

escort service.

Well, not ah.

The terminology's slipping me.

But it's a

prostitution.

In nicer words.

Using some softer verbiage.

Yes, in a sense.

But the, you know, on that same note, I did go on dates where sex wasn't involved.

It was a compensation for our time.

So that's the idea behind it, is that the women are compensating us for our time.

Whatever happens between adults is between two consenting adults.

But but there so people hear that and they say, well, that sounds like legal

CYA kind of stuff.

But but you're saying no, you see

You join this agency and and sometimes a woman would just hire you to go to dinner or something.

Yeah,

there was one woman I went on four dates with and we we never had sexual encounters.

There were times at the end of the dates

they would start to wrap up and

she would inquire on having more hours and she's like, I'm going to get in trouble.

You got to go.

And I'm like, the choice is yours.

All right,

have a wonderful night.

And so it was just, yeah, you know, you let the lady take the lead.

Okay, now, hold on.

So your girlfriend says you should be a model.

You start being a model.

Then this guy says, hey, do you want to be an

escort?

He messaged me on this site and I thought it was a joke.

So you show your girlfriend.

What does your girlfriend say?

And we were together at the time and I was like, well, I'm not going to indulge in this.

I was showing her.

I'm like, look at this spam.

Like, can you believe this guy?

It's not him.

So he's messaging me on this site.

And then about a year later, we ended up breaking up.

And she was a very wonderful one, wise, and just had a good head on her.

And as we're breaking up, it was a cordial breakup.

She was like, remember that guy?

You know, you need money.

You need a, you know, you need to,

you need a new path.

You should probably message that guy.

And I'm one, I didn't,

I didn't think I'd ever want to be an escort.

I didn't think I would jump into this.

I am a man of God.

I love and serve God, but I've also sinned.

Now, at the time, before you accept the offer from the escort agency, would you have called yourself a Christian and said you believed in God?

You would have.

Oh, yeah.

If the man asked me, I would have told him, I love and serve God.

We're not even at the diddy part, and I'm already, this is pretty wild.

You're dating this girl.

She's the one who gets you into modeling.

Then you say, hey, this gigolo guy just wants to work with me.

And you don't do anything with it.

Then, as you're breaking up, this girl sounds like a horrible influence.

Says, be a model.

And then, hey, by the way, you should go be a gigolo now that we're broken up.

It was one that

you can look at it how you choose, but she saw something in me and challenged me.

And I'm one if there's a challenge or someone thinks I can do something.

I didn't see how possibly personally degrading it could be, you know, on the outskirts.

What were you, okay, then what at the time, you're viewing this in this very positive way.

So it's a challenge.

I could do it.

It's kind of like modeling.

But so if you didn't think, and I've heard this from multiple people, you didn't think it was going to be so degrading, you know, when you're getting into it.

What did you think it was going to be?

I wanted to,

the fact that I could spend time with someone.

I'm a very much a people person.

I love people.

And then with my first girlfriend that I had out of high school, I was in a four-year relationship with her.

Another amazing, beautiful girl, woman, but I realized I didn't listen.

And so I realized, like,

I'm spending time with these women, and I love listening.

I do like hearing them.

And

as a young man,

sex is fun, even though I understand it is sinning.

So was that part of it, though, when you're signing up?

Because look, I could get it.

How old were you at this point?

What was that part of it?

It wasn't

about 24.

So you're 24.

So part of that is you're a 24-year-old guy.

You say, hold on, wait a second.

I'm going to get paid to sleep with women.

What's the catch?

Exactly.

So you're thinking that a little bit, too?

Not necessarily as an incentive, but just like it was

when I got the message from Garen.

I just was shocked, right?

I was shocked.

I was like, oh, snap, he messaged me back.

And he's like, I'm going to be in Vegas in two days.

Can we sit down and have a conversation?

And so I was back in LA at the time.

So I'd boogie over to Vegas and

I don't think I stayed with my ex-girlfriend.

I forget where I stayed.

But I stayed over, had a quick meeting with him.

And I was shocked.

And so I was wondering, I just let the ball roll.

I was like, he messaged me back.

I went with it.

And then a few, about a week later, he put me on his team.

How many people were on the team?

At that time, probably about 12 to 15, but I think there's a lot more now because I saw.

So this is still in operation.

Yes, yeah.

So, okay, so, and it's grown.

So then at the time,

you go out, you're interested in this opportunity, and you've got three potential motivations.

One is helping the women.

You want to talk and listen to the women.

One is sex, and one is money.

If you had to rank them.

How would you rank those three motivations?

The first one.

I like people.

It was mostly the people.

You want to help people, you want to talk to people, you want to listen to the women.

Okay.

So you sign up

for the company.

Then what?

About a week later, he calls me.

He's like, all right, got our first date.

I told her your little experience.

So go in, own it, be here this date, this time.

And so it was just show up.

And that's in that setting there in LA.

Many people have the fake it T, make it mentality.

And so I could see that.

You know, I was like, I had to

instill confidence though is what it was.

You know, I realized the fake it T, make it thing, it sits, but but if you're faking it, you're lying to yourself right off the bat.

And so just have the confidence to attain, in a sense.

And so that's how I led with.

I went in and my first date, I got extended hours,

which the guy likes.

You know, it's more money all around.

And so from there,

the dates just...

Not to pry too much.

When you say extended hours, is that a euphemism or is that

just a code word for sex?

Or is that, does it just mean you go out and you actually have more drinks or whatever?

Yeah, so

they hire for a

time frame and if you go beyond that then it's extra money and such and so and that's what the guy says you're there for this X hours but if it continues just message me in the morning and we'll take care of all the money and such or things of that nature so yeah that first date got extended and I think that was kind of the I guess he saw something and the ball kept rolling from there.

I wasn't a

10 dates a month guy.

It was

max three to four, and then sometimes I go two to three months.

Okay, not to pry too much, and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.

But that first date, this is your introduction to this industry.

Yeah.

Is it, are you just chatting over warm milk and cookies?

Or is it...

It started out at a bar there along the Malibu Coast.

You know,

she's sitting at a bar and

walk up and introduce myself and we start chatting and get a drink and

dance and then

that's when she she my first client was a like a well-off lawyer and she kind of broke it down to me why she had

acquired me that night why

she made it very clear she's a very busy woman She doesn't want to go to a bar and get hustled and hackled.

She knows what she wants.

She wants to go out and have a good time.

And then she wants to be able to have her own household when she wants it.

And so it was, I could see it's like she

wanted to be appreciated, but not heckled or hassled.

And

she liked that her level of success gave her the ability to do that,

to be able to control that situation.

And so

I had to play respectfully accordingly, you know?

And I think that's one of the keys of

my roots as a Hawaii boy, you lead with respect.

You show respect to get respect.

And that was one of the keys I think that helped me in this industry is I just respect people.

Okay.

Now,

again, you can just tell me I don't want to answer that.

Did you sleep with her or not?

Yes.

You did.

Okay.

Okay.

That was a different time in your life, and obviously, you've gotten out of it.

But that's the reason I'm asking that is

now all of a sudden, after this first date, after this first job, you now know, okay, hold on.

I'm not, this ain't just modeling anymore.

I am, I'm now in

the sex industry.

Did that, how did that

work?

Did that warp your perception perception of yourself or no?

I mean, I didn't, you know, I didn't, yeah, I didn't see it that way.

I mean, obviously it is.

It's clear as day.

I can deny it all, but it is that.

I could see how to, like, that voice inside, if I'm not doing it, someone else will.

And I, I truly do appreciate this woman, and I don't want her to be treated or felt like she's only being used for her money in a sense.

So that was kind of in my soul.

It was like, I,

that was one of those things.

I, why helped me to

be able to do it, you know, and not feel.

In your mind, you're saying, I'm not just doing this for the money.

Yeah.

Like that, that it's one, it was a challenge.

I never thought, I never thought that would happen.

I never thought that I never wanted that door to open, but opportunity came and I jumped on it or I owned it.

So,

but now who is

forgive my ignorance of this in my mind a male gigolo

it was kind of like playgirl no guys buy playboy and guys buy play girl right there's no I in my mind it was all it was either straight guys hiring women or gay guys hiring men.

I I did not think that women would actually hire a male prostitute or a gigolo or an escort or whatever the term is.

It was women though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

About 90% of the clients were women and then a few others were the males, husbands hiring me for their partner, their wife.

It happened a few.

It wasn't very prevalent, but it happened, yeah, quite a few times.

And it's one of those that,

yeah, it learned a lot.

I learned a lot.

How old are these women?

The oldest was about 45.

And the other one,

about

one who was in their late 20s.

Some of them were beautiful couples that were,

it's like they wanted to be able to be honest with each other and they thought they had to bring an outside source in in order to break the threshold of their comfort with each other.

So they would say things like they wanted to do like a sex act or something they thought was freaky and they were too scared to say it to their loved one because they didn't want them to be like, oh, I don't want to do that.

That's gross.

But then,

you know, I'd be brought into the setting setting, and it just would open up the sexual conversations.

And so they were, in a sense, it was exciting to them, but it was the it, it's sad to say, it was the beginning of the unraveling.

So it's funny because I can, I can, as you're explaining this, I can kind of get that in principle, that it's, it's almost easier if there's a third person.

But it is, it's kind of funny in a way to say, I'm too embarrassed to

ask for some sort of sexual behavior with my

wife or girlfriend.

So so instead I'm going to propose bringing a male escort.

That's somehow less odd or and I could see too sometimes on a well many times it was the man

because they wanted to indulge in their sexual fantasies.

They wanted like he wanted his wife to

have fun with another woman.

And so this was somewhat of the I guess balancing factor.

It was a way to not make it seem as bad I guess for them and to see, see, I want my sex fun, and I'm allowing you to have your sex fun.

That seems truly like I see as you're describing that, that's like the middle ground.

To me, that seems like the exact worst case scenario.

If you're a guy, you say, well, I have this deviant fantasy about two women, so I'll meet in the middle and I'll bring in another guy.

They called it the devil's threesome.

I think in college, I remember people saying that.

So, anyway, okay.

So, so

it's women.

All of this is subverting my expectations.

It's women.

It's not just women.

It's relatively young women.

Are they,

put aside the cuckold couples for a second.

The women, you say one of them is, okay, she's rich.

So that's why she's rich, she's busy, she knows what she wants, she doesn't want to go deal with guys.

Are the women ugly physically?

I'm trying to figure out why, what would motivate a single woman to go hire a gigolo rather than just go to a bar.

Any woman can pick up any guy, basically, if you wait long enough at a bar.

And that was part of it.

She didn't want that hassle.

You know, they didn't like the, and it was the control of the situation.

Control, I could see it.

Control.

And the money gave them that power.

Right.

And I'm a very, I'm a people.

pleaser in a sense.

Like I said, I like to listen and I've learned that.

I've learned that.

There's much value in listening.

And

because there was, you know, some of the clients,

I was a regular for a few of the ladies, and then one of the other guys was also a regular for some of the ladies.

And so

I saw the games some of the other guys were playing with the women and attempts to,

I don't want to go too deep, but attempts to lock these rich women down, either through marriage or pregnancy of some sorts.

And so I saw this game.

being played by a few different women of clients who I had and that was the day I

called the owner I was like I can't stand by this I can't stand by what is going on so

you're saying

the men the gigolos who are regulars they say okay well I got this woman who's rich

who's paying me for my services but rather than just get a paycheck for every date what if I lie what if I impregnate this woman in a in a deceitful way meaning oh very yeah it was the same game plan from a few different women and they would tell me, like one of these, one of the women who I saw quite often would tell me the game plan of what this one of the guys was doing behind the scenes.

And then a few weeks later, or a few months later, see another client.

And these women are wealthy women who are, their parents did very well.

And so they had large sums of money.

And many, they, too, themselves had businesses, which they developed.

But this, yeah, there was a man doing, and that, like, that's why too, some of these women, you know, they would, uh, one thing, we were never supposed to exchange numbers because all business was supposed to be done through the uh the agent yeah to ensure there's no backroom deals and such

so but I did exchange numbers with these women who had some you know they had some hard times in their life and they just need someone to talk to when they were you know at points in their life where

they're on their their deathbed in a sense and so

so these women who were really desperate or depressed or something

yeah they're seeking something seeking and so

you gave them the number, you'd have kind of offline.

I'm one I don't like to operate in that manner, but when the women would tell me, hey,

I just need someone to talk to, you know, or they would lead in that manner, and I would always try to direct them to the

agency.

But, you know, there was a time where I did exchange the numbers and they would call me when they...

They're still paying you, just off the books.

Well, you know, they would, i wouldn't necessarily see them too like they would call me just talk and stuff but i did see a couple times off the books and they would hand me some cash okay so you've given me the scope of your career with the as a gigolo

and you say it started out i was okay morally with the women paying me for for sex but i was not okay with these guys who are

it's it's crazy to think you you hear about women you know pretending they're on a contraceptive drug and they're not, and it's to lock a man down.

You never think of it in the other way.

The man is going to try to impregnate the rich woman.

But you say, okay,

that part was too immoral, and that's when I got out.

But there was this thing in the middle that you alluded to, which pertains to the big news story.

You said there are these guys who would hire you to sleep with their wives or girlfriends.

And one of those guys is P.

Diddy.

Yep.

And when that night came,

so

I did also, I worked, private parties, bartended, served at studios and places all around Los Angeles and stuff.

And so that night, one night, was doing,

it was a pretty boring event, only wine and about 13 guests at a gentleman's house at the Hills.

And I kind of got all the guests.

their wines and stuff and I'm sort of standing there and the receptions row in and out and I see my phone kind of blinking and I'm like, oh crap.

So I look at it.

It says, Garen James, missed call.

And, you know, when he calls, it's just one of those, like, okay, you know, this is the real deal.

This is your boss.

You got it.

You got to.

So I told the guy, hey, Andy, I got to go make a phone call real quick.

And it's one of those seeds from back in the

Verizon days.

You know, I went to the side of the house and I'm like hitting call.

And it's like,

no bar.

Call failed.

It's on the side of the house and there's trash cans.

I'm like, that'll go through.

And I see him like, okay, it goes through and I'm holding it.

And I'm like, almost up on a trash can.

It finally goes through to Garen James.

and

and he's all like hey you available I was like I could be he's like okay

we got any listeners are you available to be here this time and I'm like I will be and so

that's how that played out I went in I told the guy I think his name was Andy I was like hey Andy I got a family emergency I gotta I gotta head out

then I'll leave all the wines out and stuff he's like all right thank you very much and that was a real easy gig and so I so this is the most Hollywood story I've ever heard you're already at a party in the Hollywood Hills you get a call as a bartender you get a call to

to do a like a sex job for a listers at another Hollywood party you give an excuse to the first guy and now you're driving over to P.

Diddy's house LA fitness first guy to shower up didn't want to go stinky so I had to get clean had to go to a quick stop and I'm in my little Ford Focus you know

beeper bopper works well there in LA because you can fit in all these parking spots I think it was the Beverly Hills hotel

Either there or her condo was the first one, but

pull up and this is where, so I don't know who I'm seeing.

And so I show up to the address, I go up to the door, knock, and she opens the door.

This is Puff Daddy's girlfriend.

This is Cassie.

And I didn't know,

I didn't put two and two together.

And she opens the door.

She was stunningly beautiful.

Just had a presence.

And I like, I almost,

and she's like, hi, come on in.

All right.

Hey,

starts telling me the situation.

And I'm like walking behind her.

And, you know, I know how to handle myself in a sense.

I've been around beautiful people, but she had a presence.

And I was like, so you're hired to do a job, but instantly,

you're enamored of this woman.

It was weird.

You could feel her spirit.

In Hawaii, Hawaii, you...

you vibe off people.

And I didn't think that was, I didn't really know that was a thing until I got older and stuff.

And I realized, like, man, you can vibe off people.

You can feel the energy and stuff.

And so,

like, she melted me.

That was was the energy at first.

Just melted me, her stunning beauty, and just the kindest person you could imagine.

Like, just the sweetest.

And something,

like, I'm almost fainting.

I'm walking behind her.

And I'm like, oh, God, I feel my legs getting weak.

And I just tap her shoulders.

I was like, excuse me, I just got to let you know.

I'm sorry.

If I'm stuttering, you just dropped dead gorgeous.

I just had to get that out of the way so that we can move forward.

And I'm not just losing myself.

She's like, oh, you're so sweet.

Thank you.

And walks me into a room, tells me the situation.

She's like, oh, my.

And I didn't realize they weren't husband and wife.

But She tells me, hey, um, so we're just gonna have a little fun, you know, you're waiting for now, but I'll come get you in a little bit.

My husband likes to watch, you know, and then we'll just we're gonna be out there on the couch having fun and we're just gonna be playing, all right?

So she, she, I mean, she, in many ways, practically, they were together so long, it seems like they'd be husband and wife.

So she refers to him as her husband,

even though they were a long-term boyfriend.

Yeah.

And the long-term boyfriend just so happens to be.

You don't know this at the time.

No, I

was on the assumption that this A-list or whoever he or she was hired hired the most beautiful escort.

And

I'm going to have fun with another escort.

That was, I mean, she was that stunning in a sense.

I don't mean to mean like escort looking, but she just was stunningly beautiful.

And so, yeah, I'm not putting this together.

And then I'm sitting in the room and she even offered, she's like, oh, here's a bar.

Could I make you anything?

And I'm like, just, hey, thank you, though.

Just go take care of yourself.

I'm good.

Thank you.

And then, yes, she comes back and the session starts about 15 minutes later.

So when when you say the session starts, you mean you guys

do the thing that married couples do.

Yeah.

Very, this, you know, it was all, it's very performative, though.

The whole system set up, you know, like the

every flavor of Siroq is on the bar, you know, every bottle's placed in positions.

Did that give it away?

Hold on.

Well, no, I didn't put two and two together then.

You know, I took it.

You don't think of it.

I should have.

That was the first clue.

I don't think I would have put it together

if I found myself in that situation.

But so you're there.

So you say it's very performative.

Because she sits on a couch and there's like a couch like this, maybe facing.

She's like, okay, sit there.

She puts the towel down.

She's like, hey, just pour the baby oil all over me.

And it would be heated, some heated, some just room temperature.

Because I remember, I actually didn't follow the case that closely, the Diddy case.

But one of the details that was in every headline was that

investigators seized like a thousand bottles of baby oil.

Yeah, I mean there's lots of baby oil.

There's always baby oil.

Always.

And never got old.

And I didn't see him until about the fourth or third or fourth encounter.

I mean

but the first one, so we begin, she

on the couch and directing like, hey, play for yourself, do this, lean this way, just like guiding.

And I see like the little slit in the room.

And I'm one to,

I want to ensure I respect all those that I've seen.

I don't want to disrespect any clients.

I don't want to dispel any private information.

The only reason I'm opening up about this is it's public now.

So let me tell you something.

Had you just sat down, we're meeting for the first time, and you told me this story.

It's not that I

would have immediately called you a liar, but I would have been very skeptical about your claims.

You know, with this in the news, I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who claim to have been gigolos at freak offs or in Diddy's house or whatever.

It was some guy who claimed to be a lawyer working with the legal team.

All these people making up a lot of stories.

But I know that you actually did this stuff

because you didn't volunteer this to go get publicity.

Your name and your picture were revealed in court.

Well, yes, well, revealed in court and then it went sort of to go mainstream when 50 posted that picture.

And I honestly thought because

50 Center.

Yeah, 50 Cent.

What did he post?

He said something like, I wonder what he did to these guys or something along those lines.

So it's like very

assumptive, and especially with what's going on, you know, people can.

So the rapper FittiCent posts your picture along with a bunch of other guys, says, I wonder what P.

Diddy did to you.

And your name and your picture also come out in court, which is probably where Fiddy Cent got it.

And all of this is quite corroborating of the fact that you're sitting in a hotel room at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

Or was that the Beverly Hills or at the condo?

It's either at her condo or the Beverly Hills Hotel.

And she

is directing you in a sexual performance for P.

Diddy, who's behind the curtain.

Yeah, he was in the room, this little creak open, and you could tell it was

she

was in

I mean, I didn't notice it

till a few sessions in, but she was under his control.

So hold on, but guys, this is the part of the story that to me is really interesting from the legal perspective.

The claim of the prosecution in the Diddy case was that he was coercing these women, chiefly her.

But from the story you're describing, she

welcomes you in.

She tells you what to do.

She's directing this.

This sounds like a woman who, again, ultimately, because I have a Christian conception of liberty.

ultimately I think this is not a free woman.

This is a woman who's in the thrall to a lot of vice and sin.

But in the modern legal conception of liberty,

it sounds like this woman's totally free and she's telling you what to do.

It doesn't sound like he's got a whip and a chain and he's...

And that's,

you know, I'm one, I respect the setting, I respect clients, and I realize I'm there to have a job.

So I'm there to do a job.

I want to ensure the clients get what they pay for.

So, like, I didn't, I wouldn't listen to their arguments and stuff if there was some

I would hear things.

When I

didn't hear vicious tones and stuff,

but I would hear noise.

You could hear them discussing stuff and some pretty strong tones.

But at that time, too, I'm not like, I didn't want to include myself into anyone's business.

I was like, that's you're hired to do a job.

Exactly.

And that's, you know, I didn't didn't want to

try to get a story or anything.

I didn't want to have any desire, so I didn't want to try to listen to anything.

What I was going to say that initially it was very, seemed very cordial, very

light.

But as the sessions grew, there were times her spirit, you could tell, were just, it was a completely different spirit.

What do you mean by that?

Where instead of the jovial smile of, hi, welcome in, what could I get you?

Okay, all right, go here, we'll be out soon.

I said, here.

And there were times in the sessions where I saw that demon, the demon that she talked about.

You know,

yeah.

What do you mean she a demon, a per like a kind of a personal demon?

You know, these are the demons that are afflicting me.

Or did he?

Yeah, Diddy.

Diddy.

Diddy.

You could see.

You could see the fear.

Well, and that's the thing.

I made a statement to News Nation that I wanted to

clear out.

So

there was a time in the later sessions where...

How many sessions were there?

I'd say in between 15 to 25

with us.

About

probably.

So

pun intended, you are very intimately acquainted with Diddy and his girlfriend.

Fairly, yeah.

There was...

And he was always, like, honestly, talking to him, I'm a people person.

I talk, I'll laugh, you can laugh at me.

I love it.

You know,

no harms, no, I feel no harm in that.

But trying to talk to him was like talking to a soulless wall.

It just was all about

the sex.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Like, just,

like, there was one time.

That's how the conversations were.

Like him and I were, we were on a bed, separated, but, you know, laying near the top, and she was at the bass performing.

He's like, hey, man,

why more men doing this?

Why more guys doing this stuff?

And I come to realize, he knew the agency, and he knows more men are doing this.

And I just responded, tried to respond pretty quickly.

And I was like, oh,

men want to own, so men will want your woman, and it creates jealousy and stuff.

So that was always.

When he says, why aren't more men doing this?

Does he mean, why aren't more men doing what I'm doing?

Yeah.

Yeah, like Gigolo and Venus.

More men doing what you're doing.

Yes.

Why aren't more men?

Because it seems like, you know, for like a teenage boy, maybe, it seems like, oh, I got to pay for it.

Why aren't more women?

Why aren't more dudes doing this?

And your answer is because men want ownership.

They want a woman of their own.

They don't want to.

That was my quick response.

And, you know, I was just trying to...

Give him an answer.

I didn't want to leave him hanging and stuff.

But that's how it was.

There was never any more than that.

So in a sense, too, I've only bought one CD in my life, and it was, I'll be missing you by Diddy.

That song he wrote for his, who I I thought was his brother.

It took me many times.

It took me, I thought about it.

I was like, because I just wanted to, you know,

I didn't want to connect, connect.

I'm there for a job, but I'm like, I want to

know this guy.

Yeah, I just want to have a cordial conversation.

I just want to break the ice and just talk to you.

You know, I mean, you're, I'm over here

sleeping with your

lady, and I just want to know you as a man.

And so I told him one day, I finally just like, I was going to just say it, like, hey, man, I've only bought one CD in my life.

It was the piece you put together for your brother, Lil Smalls, man.

I'll be missing you.

And I thought that would be like, Oh, he could talk about his brother, and we could, I could talk about my brother, we could like start to relate that way.

His response was, That's what's up.

Yeah,

I'm just like,

Cool, man.

All right, all right,

right back to work.

Yeah, so this guy, from the picture you're painting and the quartz it painted, and from

like video footage, I guess, is a

sex crazed animal.

Is that overstating it?

That's, I could, I mean, I would say that's fair.

That's definitely fair.

From my own personal experience,

this is like, yeah, it's like he had a sense,

and it was the power, too.

You know, I could tell it was the power that turned him on as well.

It was the,

it wasn't just the naked bodies touching and stuff.

It was the power.

This is going to, this maybe is a dumb question, but there are going to be a lot of people asking, and this is my confusion, too.

If you're a guy and you have a pretty girlfriend,

you should get married, I guess, and have kids and have a big family and a good life.

But even short of that, it seems to me you'd want to just sleep with your girlfriend a lot because she's really hot.

Why would you want some other guy?

to sleep with your girlfriend and why would you pay for it?

That, you know, I don't know the exact answer to that one because I'm like you.

I want my one.

You're the guy in this situation and you don't know the answer.

I have no idea.

I don't understand how why that's.

I don't, you know, I think it's the deception.

It's one of the devil's greatest tools that you think you're satisfied, but you want more.

You know,

you just want more.

Like, this was fun, but you could have more.

And if you don't have something to steer you in line to be like, no, that's a sin.

You don't need that.

Your flesh will

you know indulge

so so basically you

you the you're the rich rapper you have a hot girlfriend you've you've done that thing ten billion times and now because it's not

ordered it's not ordered towards something it's not re you just need more titillation

that's what I think it is yeah like that's and that's my assumption as to you know like you hear the audio of what may have happened behind closed doors with Diddy and some rappers you know, and then some of them aren't as famous as they were before those moments that they had with Diddy.

And I think

it's my assumption.

It's a power thing.

Right, because hold on.

The thing you're alluding to, which I think is public, it's not, we're not exactly revealing private sins here.

Diddy's like half a gay guy.

It seems like.

He's doing weird stuff with guys and making guys doing weird stuff with me.

But yeah, I want to make it very clear.

He never touched me.

Him and I never had any physical physical interactions.

That's good.

I just want to make that clear.

But that does add a wrinkle to this where you say, well, hold on.

If he's half a gay guy,

why does he even have a

girlfriend?

Because he's just a pervert basically, is it, right?

Yeah.

Many other men that I've talked to, like Cassie is one of the most beautiful women.

She's a very gorgeous.

beautiful woman and I think Diddy, you know, he had that and he wants to be above everyone else.

So that was kind of his satisfaction.

It's like, her beauty is great, but I own it.

And

you want it, but I own it.

So

this is one.

So there was a few times where I got to see that side of the Diddy, where it was all about power.

And

her and I can have no interaction without him there.

If he, because there was a moment we're

doing,

you know, we're naked and on a couch and Diddy kind of of gets up and walks and she just kind of pauses and huh and then just sits like this and I kind of lean back on the couch and then I just kind of hey I forget what the I topic I tried to bring up like hey what did what happened yesterday or blah blah blah just something off the top watch those Yankees yeah just something just to have a to break the ice in a sense

and she just looks at she just goes not till he comes back just nope wait till he comes back and just like straight and so that's when I was made a a statement on news nation it wasn't fear i was sensing but it was this is this woman knows next level what she has to do to get through this situation like she knows if i even possibly talk with him he's gonna what'd you say to him

what are you talking about because there's video of him beating her in a hallway i was supposed to be there that night

i was supposed to

Yeah, I got to figure that found that out from a reporter who found out all the chat logs and stuff.

But yeah, I was supposed to be there that night.

Yeah, it would have been, I don't know what would have happened.

But that's how I like to see.

I'm the guy, I don't, I like to, I don't never start a fight, but I like to, I would like to bring it down.

I would like to try to tone it down.

You know, I don't, I like to try to bring peace and civility.

So

you were supposed to be there the night Diddy's filmed Beating His Girlfriend, and you're wondering,

Rather than say, man, I'm so glad I wasn't there that night.

You're thinking, man, had I been there, maybe that wouldn't have happened.

I like to think there's a chance that I could have hopefully brought the spirit down.

I don't know.

Maybe I'm talking a little too tall here, but it's like, that's kind of been my, I guess, my thing.

I have a vibe, I guess, you know, and

I don't mind getting punched in the head.

If it could bring some peace in civility, I will fight back and try to defend myself.

But at the same time,

I don't know.

I would try to bear hug him if I saw him beating her up.

I don't know what would have happened.

But I would have tried to quell the situation.

If not, you know,

yeah, I probably would have had to talk with the guy and be like, man, this Garen and be like, nah, I don't stand for this.

Because I absolutely would not stand for that action.

So

do not stand for a man putting his hands on a woman.

Of course.

I hope not.

But

take me back to this moment on the couch.

P.

Diddy leaves the room.

You guys were doing whatever you were doing.

He leaves the room, stops.

She turns away.

You try to talk to her.

She says,

we're not even supposed to talk.

She just

goes into her own head.

At this moment,

before that, I could see how you could tell yourself, well, hey, it's all just fun.

This is what they want to do.

And I'm just part of what they want to do.

And I'm just here to serve the client, keep the customer satisfied.

At this moment,

does it dawn on you?

Hey, maybe, maybe she doesn't want to be doing this.

Maybe not in those exact terms, but it was like, whoa,

follow follow her lead.

You know, like, oh, shit, this is okay.

She's telling me something.

When they asked Unus Nation, did you sense fear?

And I said, I didn't sense fear, but it was because I was in the presence of a survivor.

Not just a survivor, but

my mom helped me correlate these thoughts of a, not a victim, but she's a survivor.

That's what she was.

She was not a victim there, but she was a survivor.

And she knew that

to get through this situation and possibly not get a beat down, she couldn't talk without.

So why didn't she leave?

Why did she tried to leave that night in the hotel and then he drags her?

She was at the, on video, she was at the elevator and he catches her right before the elevator and drags her back and kicks her and hits her and beats her.

He's just a complete animal, a savage.

But in that moment, he leaves.

She could have run away.

No, maybe not.

Maybe she's got some psychological damage.

The arms of this is where too, I'm a simple man.

I'm a, like I said, I'm a Hawaii boy.

Things are very, I look at things very simply I know things are very complicated but when you break things down

simply

you you can it helps me to understand them

why didn't she leave the arms of whatever system Diddy has are much bigger than any we can perceive that we know of and I say this because Diddy wants that and this is after a great session so there's a few a few moments where I realized like

I understood my place in a sense So, one time, did he, uh,

he, I get, so every time I go, I have to turn off the phone, hand it to him first thing, hand him the phone.

They take the phone every session.

The end of the night, comes, hands the phone in the cash, and he's like,

he comes up to me, and this was like, it was nothing, this was like very, he seemed like very cordial.

No,

like everything went smooth, and he's handing me my phone and stuff.

He's like, hey, man, you know, I know everyone's grandma and shit, right?

And where they live?

And I'm just like, yeah,

we're good.

And he's like, all right, all right.

So that's what I thought.

I decided to look look at him.

I didn't want to be like,

he tells me.

I know where everyone's grandma.

He said, you know, I know where everybody and their grandma lives, right?

And I just had to, you know, I had to think.

I had to pause.

I didn't want to be like, I know people too.

I know where your grandma is.

Yeah.

Diddy?

I know where you live.

I didn't want to play none of that game.

So I just had to like,

I absorbed it and I realized, oh, I know what he's saying.

You know, he's threatening you.

In a sense, yeah, with saying it without saying it.

And he's like, all right.

And I said to look at him like, yeah, we're good.

We're good, man.

And so he's like, all right.

I asked him my phone.

So I was just like,

so he knows, he knows that what he's doing is bad.

He knows that it's degenerate, would be damaging to his reputation, even his reputation.

Well, and I got another story to back that up.

So

one time,

I mean,

at that time, especially, I was fascinated by Cassie, and so I would bring her gifts.

I had a duffel bag.

I had a duffel bag with gifts and outfits or whatever, you know, to

go too deep into it, but.

Gifts, like, just for her or for the performance?

Just for her.

Just for him.

How much are they paying you?

Those are my highest-paying clients.

They paid well.

I can imagine.

They paid pretty well.

I'm not a wise spender, so I would take a portion of what they paid me, and I would go buy her gifts and stuff.

It's very nice, very generous.

But

I had a bag, I had a duffel bag with some outfits and a couple gifts and stuff.

I had my watch.

So I put my bag down on a counter like the setting was somewhat like this, but it was more of like a counter against the wall with some drawers and stuff.

I put my bag on the side and I had a G-Shock and I put it on the table.

We go through the whole night, the whole session and get everything done, put my watch up, go to the door, and we're wrapping up.

And he saw, yeah, yeah, yeah,

that watch, that one of those, and this is what, like five, six, you know, seven or eight years ago?

Yeah.

Something more.

It's like, yeah, hey, that watch there.

I wanted them with them cameras in it.

And I was like,

and then I was like, my mind spans.

I was like, oh yeah, I was on the counter.

I was like, oh, snap.

I must have been facing out.

And I'm guessing he saw that.

So I'm like, this?

I thought it was a G-shock.

I was like, oh, no, dude.

You know what?

No, it doesn't.

Here, you guys take it.

He's like, oh, no, we're good.

We're good.

No, he's not just going to got a camera.

And I was like, we're good, man.

I was like, you know what?

Guilty man flees when none pursueth.

So you left the watch.

Yeah, I dumped it.

I was like, you know what, man, I don't want to, I was like, I don't want to have any sauce.

I was like, yeah, you know what?

So I was like, nah, man, like, right here.

And I was like, nope, I just dropped it in the trash.

And I was just like, it's not worth it.

It's a 50-buck watch.

I don't want to.

But no, G-Shock's a nice watch.

I love them.

Yeah.

But

he obviously was paranoid, as you should be.

That line of, it's a great line of scripture.

The guilty flee when none pursueth.

If you're doing bad stuff, first of all, everyone knows someone's watching.

Someone up there is watching.

And so all of a sudden, you think,

does someone, does that guy, does my coworker know, does my wife know the thing that I just did?

Yeah.

I don't think you threaten, I'm going to go kill your grandma if it's just, you know, people might write mean things about me online.

And I'm assuming he thought I would turn around and write a book or something, you know, to expose.

But I'm not that guy.

Like even like I...

Like when this all happened, my phone starts blowing up, you know, going into the trial.

And, you know, I didn't know how to take it.

It just was a storm.

But I just, I get, that's the only reason I did give a few interviews.

I just wanted my side to be heard.

A lot of my buddies back home are like, oh, what did Diddy do to him, man?

What the heck?

People's minds wander.

He didn't do anything to me.

He didn't do anything to me.

He paid me to sleep with his girlfriend.

And, you know, but you know, people's minds will wander and they have the right to.

We all assume things.

So Diddy beats the racketeering charges, which are the really serious charge.

Like, he's running a major criminal enterprise?

Do you think, in your fairly extensive experience, in his criminal enterprise,

alleged criminal enterprise,

should he have been found guilty?

If you were on the jury, would you have voted to find him guilty?

I would have to see the evidence, but...

You saw some of it up close.

Yeah.

With what I've...

experienced, yeah, absolutely.

There's arms to what he did.

You know, this operation doesn't happen.

It has to have an orchestrator.

The symphony doesn't,

it would sound like a bunch of banging rackets and it would have been a mess.

But these are operations.

So, in a sense, like, you know, I did many events.

And so, as I go into the situation, I see the bottles and everything.

I was like, wow, this is a production.

You know, that's like one of my first thoughts.

Like, this is a production.

I'm like, after two, I realize it's Diddy.

I'm like, yeah, I don't see Diddy up here putting these bottles.

And, you know, I don't necessarily think that's a crime setting up

a situation, but everyone knows what's going on.

you know.

And

so, in a sense, too, that's what I've come to realize is a way that the rich and powerful get away with things, a term called plausible deniability, you know.

So, so he was always one step removed, and so he's kind of like, and I believe he understands the game to a level, and uh, and he has people and places that can do things and move things in order to get his desired outcome and such.

So, when he threatened you,

were you afraid?

No, no, no, like I mean,

it's just like,

I see myself as like, I'm like, dude, I'm a nobody.

Come on, man.

But you're a nobody.

You're going to be so much time.

But you got dirt on him.

You might be kind of a nobody, meaning you're not rich and famous,

but you have knowledge about bad things he's doing, which means you have leverage, which means you have power.

Well, first and foremost, I serve God.

So it's like, if you're going to send me to my maker quicker, go for it, buddy.

Like, come on.

Send me to a better place quicker.

Come on.

And if God doesn't want it, have fun, buddy.

It'll be fun for you.

But I guess that's a good attitude to have generally.

We don't want to have servile fear.

We want holy fear.

But now,

Diddy could have faced life in prison.

He could have died in prison.

Given the outcome of the trial, he'll face four or five years.

He hasn't been sentenced yet, as of our conversation.

If you were afraid then, before you had spilled anything publicly, before any of this had come to light,

are you not at least a little bit afraid of reprisal now?

This guy's got tentacles, arms.

You're not at all afraid of reprisal?

Nah.

Do you think he might try?

I would have to do something like, I mean, if...

I doubt it.

I mean, I'm a small twig in this big old tree, but if he wants to waste energy on me, have fun.

I'll play the game.

I mean, I'm not welcoming it.

I'm not trying to call him out or anything, but I respect how they respected me.

And I don't respect his conduct, but it is what it is.

I move forward.

Go to to goodranchers.com, use code Knowles, Canada WLES.

Summer is here.

Nothing beats firing up the grill with your friends and your family.

But what might shock you is that over 85% of the grass-fed beef in the U.S.

stores is actually imported.

That meat on your barbecue, it could be from anywhere with questionable safety standards and hidden additives that you can't even pronounce.

You might be making pangolin burgers for all you know.

That's one reason to switch to Good Ranchers right now.

You know the other reason, the actual, the best reason to switch to Good Ranchers is that it is the best meat you're going to get, period.

It's just the tastiest, most delicious meat, and it's

shockingly inexpensive.

I don't know how they do it.

That CFO must be balding and ripping his shirt every day because it's just such a great product and the price is so affordable.

Every single cut, beef, chicken, pork, 100% American sourced, born, raised right here on local family farms.

No antibiotics ever, no added hormones, no seed oils, just pure clean meat.

It tastes incredible on the grill.

Great, beautiful chicken nuggets, no seed oils in them.

Good luck finding that.

It's just unbelievable, folks.

I had a Good Ranchers New York strip the other night.

It was better than a steak I had at a steakhouse a few days later.

Much better, actually.

Right now, go to goodranchers.com, code and all, 40 bucks off plus free meat for life, because the moments that matter deserve meat.

It is made right.

Good Ranchers, American meat delivered.

Did you have...

As you're sitting on the couch or afterward and you realize, okay, this woman, she's a survivor.

You say, she's not afraid, but she's not a victim, but she's a survivor, which means she's surviving some bad experience, which means if she's sensible at all, she's got some fear of more bad experiences and she's been victimized at some point such that she could survive.

Did you ever have any moral qualms to say, man,

she doesn't like this, and I'm...

I'm being used to inflict this on her?

I struggled to, I didn't see it like that in perspective.

I didn't see,

like, I guess just my passion to serve.

I just was blinded by the situation.

I'm here to serve.

I'm going to do my duty.

Serve the client.

In this case, the clients did.

It did take me, you know, I guess I wouldn't say a few years, but it took me to

step out of that situation.

In a sense, like, I guess call it breaking out of the matrix for me to see it for what it was.

So there's

other situations, too, where like my mindset,

I couldn't see it for the evil it was, especially being obviously I don't want to think I'm that evil.

Yes.

Is that why?

Because that look, we've all done it.

Whenever I've been terrible,

well, we're all sinners, but I've been worse than at other times, you know, in my life.

And in the moment,

you don't see it as clearly as you do in retrospect.

Because what?

Because you don't.

I say, well, I can't be the bad guy.

And for me, it was,

I like to please.

I like to serve.

If I'm not doing it, like some other wicked douchebag might come in and

service these ladies, but it's not in the same spiritual context.

Like, you know, I give my, I wouldn't say I give my soul, but I do give my heart to those times.

I listen

fully, you know, and so my thought was, well, if I'm not going to see them, some other guys will.

And they're not going to give them, you know, the desire.

I'm going to give it my all.

If you're going to engage in an exploitative act or if you're going to be subjected to an exploitative act, better it be with me than with some bad guy.

Yeah.

That was somewhat the, I guess, how I made it okay in my own mind, you know.

And I guess the attention too kind of made me blind to it.

The fact that,

you know, the fact that people would pay for my image, I'm like, this world's crazy.

You know, when I started modeling, then people, then women would pay me for my time.

I'm like, these ladies are even crazier, but I must be doing something right.

And if I can,

you know, obviously I'm going to pay for it, but if I can serve someone, put a smile on someone's face, face I'll do it and even though I now that I respect how degrading it is my conversation with those women that maybe want to spend time with me the conversation would be different you know I would try to lead it in different directions and I would not sleep with them right now I'm not I'm not that guy anymore but I do want to have heart to hearts and right right because that that seems to be the thread the through line of all of this is you want to you want to please people and even

you know as you say these women want the service and you say well I want to give it to them even if it's not good for them

There's one time I remember, I was out with a buddy.

We were at a cigar bar, late at night, you know, having a smoke, having some drinks.

We go out, and a bum on the street comes up, and he says, hey, can you give me money?

And I said, what do you want the money for?

Food?

Food.

I said, you don't want, you're not going to, you are not, don't lie to me.

You're not going to use this money to get food.

And he was like, no, you're right.

I'm going to use this money to get a drink.

And I said, okay, well,

I can't give it to you.

And he says, why not?

You've been drinking.

I was like, I have been been drinking.

But drinking's not that bad for me.

I don't need to drink.

It doesn't make my life worse.

But drinking would be bad for you because it would make your life worse.

And I don't want to participate in making your life worse.

And that was how we left it.

He was cool.

He was fine with it.

So when you say, well, if I were going on these dates now, the conversations would be different.

Is that the distinction?

Yeah, it would be much more depth of what are you seeking?

You want temporary pleasure?

What's the...

What's really good for you?

Yeah, because and that's one thing too.

It took me, I'm one, I doubt things till I see it or live it, you know, and so, you know, this is another instance of

while in a situation like that, you know, living in Sodom and Gomorrah, basically, in LA, where it's just pure sin.

Yeah.

But there was a moment, this is where it was just

kind of affirmation of the Holy Spirit.

Again, on a couch doing her thing, and Diddy kind of walked around in the kitchen, so he was present this time, and she kind of sits back, kind of sits back, and she's like, I don't know, it's just something about you.

There's like an energy or spirit just about you.

I don't know, it's different, but I like it, and it's pretty awesome.

And I just was like, What?

I was like, What would make her say that?

Like, you know what?

How

what would make her feel like something about me?

And I come to realize it was probably my mom on her hands and knees praying for me at that moment in time.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, hold on.

So, this is another, you become a model and then a gigolo, and then a gigolo for puff daddy

does your family know about this oh i didn't tell anyone no way no i it's not one i didn't bash like no one i worked with knew i don't think i think i i had kind of made a uh side reference i never talked straight up because i respect my clients and i don't because you you pointed off camera because you met my producer ben davies doing good friend catering jobs catering jobs back in the day so you and so but you weren't telling people that you were doing this i never dated girls at my work and i never i didn't i didn't talk about this.

No, this was a,

yeah, I didn't find necessarily, I wasn't proud of it necessarily,

but

I appreciated serving women and making decent money.

I was able to live, survive there in L.A.

I wasn't a wise investor, which I should have been, but I was able to just, you know, get by decently.

And you didn't expect to be...

brought up by prosecutors in a major criminal case years later.

Yeah, and they that's the thing too I get I just got blasted it was on a Monday just get blasted by every outlet CNN NBC and they're all I realized because the people article had come out there's a guy

actually a decent this guy I don't like I don't like media personnel I do not like the media because in my job I realized too like I was that I was that fly on the wall you know I'd be serving behind places and then you hear people talk about like people in the media it's like it doesn't matter what the hell the truth is it just matters what make the peasants believe it's just you just got to make your truth their truth.

I hear these things like, huh?

You know,

I'm sorry, my brain, I forget where I was going.

Keep going with that.

Because you're working,

as you say, you're only working the gigolo jobs a handful of days per month.

That's not, you have other days, you're working other jobs, you're catering.

So you're getting a really direct view of Gamora by the sea when you're cucking Puff Daddy.

But you're getting another view of Gamora by the Sea

when you're overhearing these hotshot Exactly at the parties.

Executives talking.

So what are they saying?

Stuff about how, oh, we'll have, oh, we're going to have this in the film.

And people would talk about how they would set up social constructs or social narratives.

They would talk about...

And, you know, I didn't directly hear about the transgender movement, but they would talk about how they would implement ideas through their show.

And then, well, they know this person at the Department of Education.

And then they know this person over here to enable to work this out.

So if there's ever any legal recourse, I know the prosecutor, so let's go.

Talking about in stealing messages in their in their media and stuff like subliminal type messages and things like that too.

And this is the thing too, at the time I'm a fly on the wall and I'm like, I'm hearing this, but I'm thinking, no, people aren't that stupid.

And then this is at the time where, you know, algorithms blowing up and people are doing everything algorithm-based.

And even as I'm hearing them say this behind closed doors, my soul is thinking, oh, people aren't that stupid.

People can think for themselves.

And then you see things like the Tide Pod challenge come out on snapchat and things like this where you know that was when that was when zoomers were eating tide pods right that was there and it's you know you hear and i was there was a

party that i had worked on it was on the hermosa beach pier and it was somewhere in the early days i think i'd been around a few years now one or two and some sort of a

it was a pretty awesome party there on the pier and you hear guys talking about like ah yeah well that stupid bitch in high school i just got to tweak an algorithm and she's sending me nudes and stuff.

It's just like, you hear how they can just,

you know, create the realities

for like these people who are running these platforms and stuff, all they got to do is put in a few algorithms.

Yeah.

I could just go, eh, kill that algorithm, but they're like, this is funny.

How many people will,

oh, how many will we get?

Well, and there's a parallel too, because you're saying the...

The part that's so confusing for people is why, if you're a rich, powerful guy, would you pay some dude to sleep with your girlfriend?

And so it was about the control.

And here you're talking about the control from the level of the media executives down to just random degenerates in Hollywood.

And so

look, this is the, as far as I'm concerned,

primordial sin, this desire to be in control of everything, to make yourself into God.

You know, ye shall be as gods, is the promise from the serpent in the garden.

It's the premise of the liberal ideology, which is no men,

no gods, no kings, only men, and we're going to make ourselves gods.

We're going to remake the world as we like.

So, okay,

all of this is tracking my philosophical priors.

But what about your moral reality?

You're in this, you're working your catering jobs, then however many times per month, you're going over, doing the gigolo gigs, cuckolding puff daddy,

having this nice, apparently nice relationship with Cassie, his girlfriend.

How do you get out of it?

How do you get out of the puff daddy freak-off scene?

And how do you get out of gigolo-ing?

when i realized that you know that thought of uh

um

i want to provide them i want to give them the best experience i want to provide them with a good time uh i realized how

it how detrimental it really was for you know and it was with oh so one

threshold that helped me see the depths of evil to this and how I personally was blinded by the narrative and my own

and contributing to it, huh?

And contributing to it, by participating.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So there was one client I had.

He was the dean of medicine.

The only reason I'm going to say this now is because

he was arrested in like 2018.

Okay.

That's a sick individual, by the way.

And so he was a client of mine.

And

sorry, don't mean to laugh.

You're talking about a guy at a prestigious school in a very serious

position

in medicine, engaging in a threat to public health.

And this is how it gets so dis so he had a young girl,

about 21, 22,

and this is where.

How old is he?

Like 68 at the time.

And this is how I got to see the true dark side and how my own.

mindset, how clouded my own judgment was.

So

she,

there's a box, you know, about yay big off to the side.

He opens it up and it's got about six, seven, eight different hardcore drugs in it.

And so they get a pipe, put some, I guess, meth in it, and just light it up right there and start smoking it.

And in my own mind, I'm thinking, well, that's a dean of medicine.

He must know what drugs are safe.

He must know how to pass the drug tests.

I guess they drug test deans.

And then I'm like, that's, no.

That's how twisted this all is.

And what really disgusted me is how,

you know, you would see articles written in media outlets where I would have, you know, I would have a session with the Dean of Medicine.

And he's a disgusting

degenerate.

And then you would hear

the source of the information, the source for the information in that article was the dean of medicine.

So I'm just like, like, that's where I'm like, oh, like, that's sick that they're,

I forget what the topic was.

It was a long time.

It was a while back, but there was things of concern.

And the LA Times would be like, you know, headline, do this.

Source, the deal.

Like, I was smoking

last night.

Yeah, well, I didn't indulge.

You at least saw him smoking math.

Yes.

And

this is also what, you know, what I saw with some of the men that were cuckolds and would have me come in to please their lady is

he would show me pictures and videos of about four or five black dudes

doing things to her

and I just like just would just I did want to punch him in the face but I was just utterly disgusted yeah that's how degrading yeah he's a sick sick man at the same time well she went to like use the bathroom and he's like oh yeah look look what we're doing last week and he's just showing me the videos of like four dudes

going to work on it.

And there was a moment where

he walked out and he wasn't as controlling as Diddy, but he walked out and she's sitting next to me and my soul was just like, my soul felt it.

It was one of those, I was just like, wow.

And so I didn't know what to ask, but I just look at her.

I was like, hey,

are you okay with all this?

You okay with all this?

And she was like,

well, my mom's a drug addict.

I'm a drug addict.

So I get to do this and have fun.

Yeah, I'm for it.

And I was just like, oh.

He put the hooks in, you know, like, and he's going to keep.

Because there you have an admission that it's not even just that you get a girl who's psychologically messed up, but you get a girl who's a drug addict.

He's exploiting a girl who's a drug addict to feed his own degenerate sexual vices.

That is sick stuff, man.

Because

we were talking earlier about different conceptions of freedom.

That girl is not free.

I mean, if you're...

And from the outside looking in, people will be like, you get to live in a mansion with this rich man and you've done nothing?

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's like, lack of better, she's a complete slave to the drug.

Well, him and the drugs, and she's an absolute slave in that situation.

Because she doesn't get her drugs.

Who knows if she turns into him?

He's got them.

So do what I say.

So what

the minute you say

these Dijens

who are...

Some of whom have, well, Puff Daddy is super rich, super famous, very powerful.

But then this other guy, it's almost worse because he's got this really white-collar, mainstream, supposedly respectable job.

Not that I respect university administrators all that much.

You know, I'm a little skeptical of them generally, but should be a very respectable job.

And they're engaging in this gross, gross stuff.

Are they porn addicts?

Are they?

My assumption is they're godless.

And so they like.

Yeah, they are.

I'm sorry to cut you off and I want to hear your point on this.

I just mean at a very direct level.

How would you even get the idea to invite four dudes over to abuse your girlfriend?

Is it mimetic?

Did he see it?

Is he a porn addict?

I don't know.

I'm not

asking.

I'm assuming porn was the gateway, the ultimate gateway.

I don't know exactly, but it's one of those.

It's a degeneracy.

I don't know.

I can't comprehend.

It's just something I can't fathom that level of degeneration.

So you say, so you make the very good point with that, obviously, godlessness.

And yeah, because I love people.

I could never do something so degrading to another individual.

And why?

Because God says, do unto others as you would have done unto you.

And I can see these guys,

they don't get this type of, no one dictates what they do in this sort of way.

So

in the sense, like you said earlier, they're their own God.

And so this is how they, the only way they've,

you know, that's a slippery slope that never ends if you serve Satan.

that slippery slope only goes straight down.

It's going to go deeper and get a lot hotter.

In fact, John Milton in Paradise Lost says, in the mouth of Satan, he says, the mind is its own place.

It can make a hell of heaven and heaven.

A hell better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven,

which is why I say

this is the idea.

This is at the heart of the ideology of liberalism, but really it goes back to the original sin.

You said you see these guys.

In your mind, you're saying, I'm a Christian.

I believe in God.

I'm spiritual.

I'm feeling vibes of souls and stuff.

But you're looking around, you're saying, well, hold on.

The people I'm literally serving in this moment are godless.

Yeah.

And I'm serving them.

Yeah.

What did they say about me?

Yeah, it was hard for me.

I didn't recognize it as that.

See, my dream too as a kid was my mom would always tell me, you better marry a Christian girl.

You better marry a Christian girl.

And I see why now.

We're in a spiritual battle here in this world.

But my goal is, I love you, mom, but I want to bring them to Christ.

I want that challenge.

I want to bring them to Christ.

And so

I know that sounds very dark and twisted, but like if

I hope to be that pathway one day for anyone, if it's one person.

But what if you met, you're not married.

No, sorry.

What if you met a nice Christian girl and you hit it off?

Would you say, well, no, I don't want to marry you because I want the challenge of converting a sinner.

No, I realize my flesh can mislead me.

In this battle, I want a partner.

I don't want to.

I'm not at the point where I want that boost, not the lift up.

I don't want to be trying to drag someone into Christ's path.

I want that boost.

I want to work as a partnership in the spiritual warrior because that's what it is.

Probably a sign of maturity.

But

I feel like we've skipped something.

You realize this is bad.

You realize you've made a mistake.

You realize you've got to get out of this.

Tell me about the last

session with Diddy.

Tell me about the last session, period.

Tell me, nuts and bolts, how you get out of it.

I can't exactly recall the last session with Diddy because his was funny.

He actually called me because I had come home about eight years ago.

I went home to Hawaii and working on my family project.

We've got a family project out there.

And it was about three or four months I'd been home and Diddy calls me.

He calls me and it's like four in the morning out there.

And he calls me.

He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You around?

and I was like and this is where it goes into I was attempting I was trying to talk to him be like hey man you should probably come out to Hawaii sometime you know I got this place where there will be no paparazzi or anything and he's like click and I'm like oh yeah he's trying to get down to business I wasn't gonna talk about doing any future services or nothing but I wanted to possibly get him out to our property and like talk Christ with him.

I know that won't work, but that was my goal.

My work, you're in Hawaii.

You get effectively a booty call from Puff Daddy.

You say, no, I'm not really doing that.

But anyway, you want to come hang out and eat some pineapple?

And before

he hangs up on you.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh yeah.

He wants to get to business.

So, yeah.

But we never met.

It's probably about four or five, five years ago.

Yeah.

Five or six.

So, okay, so you just, you can't recall the last time you worked for P.

Diddy.

It was, you know, the sessions were

it was like moments like that when he would tell me, hey, my grandma, you know, I know people, or, you know, that watch.

It was moments like that that stuck, but it had become a process in a sense.

So I don't remember like the last one, because I'm not like a numbers guy.

I have no idea.

Did you quit or did you stop quit?

Because

I had realized that this business operation was much darker than I thought.

And

I had a conversation with Garen about,

and this, I don't want to go too deep into it,

but one of the actions of one of the other gigolos

was very uh dirty dark like he was trying to plant his seeds into rich women and i could see the game plan of what he was trying to do in a sense of impregnate these women and then divorce them and just to screw them and so i saw this and to get money or get money yeah okay get money for himself and this guy was this guy was a demon this guy was a

disgusting dude, a pathetic prick.

And what he would do is he would abuse these women mentally and he would, he, the ladies told me the psychological abuse he used on them and the psychological games he played to have his plan come together as i think they're they're the ones hiring him so how does he how can they claim to be abused by him they're the ones in charge

that's what is it stockholm syndrome

in a sense like i that's all i uh that's all i can contribute it to but it's where you know

They had a connection with him, but then, you know, I guess with time, his true intentions would come through, and then so it would get dark.

And then, you know, they,

he would he would they would the girl the ladies would tell me that he would tell them hey you have to see me like i i'm coming like you know you better be ready because i'm coming and so they'd be like all right you know like okay

i guess it was a sense of submission you know uh and they just

the sense of submission like like they were into it sort of no i guess in a say in a way too like even this guy was twisted and distorted and i'm kind of just the very i'm the opposite like i i love to serve i'll do anything for you you want me to go get this i'll do that well he was the, like, I own you and you're going to do this for me.

I'm assuming.

You know, in those stories he told.

So this actually, okay, this starts to make sense and it helps to make sense of the Cassie P.

Diddy situation too, which is.

You could say, in this situation, the woman could say, I want a man to be really mean to me.

That's what I'm paying for.

I want that.

I do see how that was.

It's one of those things, getting into it.

I never thought that a woman would want that.

I thought women want to be treated like queens, princesses, but there is a side that like women some women do like to be choked some women do like to get right you know they like to know the man's in control but this is what this is what st.

Paul talks about when St.

Paul says the things I want to do I don't do and the things that I don't want to do I do that that to a modern liberal person doesn't make any sense because you do the things you want to do and you don't do the things that you don't want to do.

But that's not how human nature works.

We do.

There are parts of us that are concupiscent that just want to sin, that want, want some guy to beat them up, or want some, you know, some

for the guys, want to want to do some gross thing with a woman.

And

the lower part of you can want that, whereas the higher part of you can know, I don't really want that.

So how do you reconcile those things?

And so I guess that was kind of

what pushed me out the door is when I

realized that this was much darker and

wasn't as

friendly to the women as I thought.

And

the relationship that the owner of the company and these ladies had,

when I had informed him of some of the actions of one of his men and how

un

of this company, I thought, well, this is just outright.

Unchivalrous he was.

Yeah, and just

there were things that this could

destroy the company because what he's doing, if these women hire a good lawyer and play this out, this all could come back around.

So I was trying to inform him, like hey, you got to get rid of this guy because here's what's going on.

His response was, it's business.

This isn't your business.

This is none of your business.

And this is business.

And then he was like, did you guys exchange numbers?

And I was like, dude, yeah, we did.

Because there were times she was on her, you know, she wasn't doing so well.

And she reached out to me and I had a conversation with her.

And I was like, I'll give you back any money you want.

I'll pay you whatever you want because she did, you know, we did communicate.

He was like, no, no, we're good.

We're done.

I was like, all right, I'm done.

I don't know.

I ain't going to play this game.

Once I realized that it was, that's when I realized like it was for the company, it was just, it's a business, it's money.

So whatever we got to do to show up, show up more.

Even if you've got to degrade these women, put them down, it doesn't matter, more business.

I wasn't for that.

Right, right.

You would hope that at some point the owner of the agency and the workers would say, well, people aren't commodities to be bought and sold.

Exactly.

People are people.

But it also sheds light on the freak offs.

Because I can totally understand in principle how the freak off started.

Because it's like any party.

It's like the Garden of Earthly Delights.

It starts at, wouldn't this be fun if we all, hey, let's all have a drink.

That's fun, right?

Having a drink is fun.

Well, you know what's more fun than one drink is two drinks.

And you know what's more fun than two drinks?

And that, by the way, that part's true.

Two drinks is more fun than one drink.

And then you know what's more fun than two drinks?

Ten drinks.

That part's not true.

Actually, 10 drinks is less fun than two drinks.

But okay.

And you know what's fun?

What if we had a bunch of our girlfriends here?

That could be fun.

And what if we had like multiple girlfriends here?

Well, hold on.

That sounds like it's more fun.

I mean, you know, 99 problems.

And

sometimes you get, sometimes more money is more problems, too.

I'm learning all these lessons from rappers.

But all of a sudden,

you can very easily see how what started out as like more, more, more fun, fun, fun

becomes

hideous, tedious, painful, nauseating, just

gross.

And that's exactly, I mean,

not necessarily exactly, but that portrays my journey in that industry.

It's like, in the beginning, very, seemed very,

I'm able to provide a service for these ladies.

They get what they want, in a sense.

They get the time spent with a man without the hassle.

Hey, win-win.

But as it got more into it, and like the more times I spent with Diddy and Cassie, it's like it evolved into, you could just feel in a sense the spirit darken and the mood.

And it was a lot more

orchestrated rather than flow.

You know, it was much more dictated than in the early days, you know.

So the early performances were more improvised, you're saying?

It seemed, I mean, I don't know how long they had been, I know they had been seeing other guys prior to me, but it seemed a lot more fluid, you know, early on.

It seemed cordial,

the spirit was softer, it seemed.

But, you know, I don't know if that was me coming in with clear eyes in a sense.

Obviously, we've been talking about the male escort world.

Is it different for female escorts?

Is the experience different?

The approach, the business?

Do you even know?

Would you even know that since obviously you've only been on one side of it?

The truth is, yeah, I'm fairly clueless.

I didn't interact with too many female.

They didn't work at your company.

Yeah, it didn't work.

Even our guys, I didn't see any of the other guys on the team.

We didn't hang out much.

It just was a straightforward business operation in a sense.

He tells us time and place, and we show up.

Yeah, it's

I would like to try to understand it from a woman's perspective, but I've haven't had a sit-down and chat, but I would like to try to understand it.

And my assumption would be, you know, especially in that scene in LA, seeing like how one thing I didn't realize, attention was such a drug, you know.

And so

that was one thing too with this.

I didn't necessarily get that high from attention, but of course it does feel good to be wanted or appreciated by a woman and such.

But

I do believe the attention along with the money has a large factor to play for a woman.

Now, all of these experiences you've been describing with Diddy were at,

it seems like it was more private.

It was just you at their house or the hotel or something.

Were you ever at the infamous freak offs?

No, I never attended any of the freak offs.

I'm very grateful because I'm the type too,

if there's a party, I like to party but i i'm also very respectful of my own sexual ways so i mean i'm glad i didn't uh because who knows what would happen at a diddy party but yeah i never was only me him and her no bodyguards none of that

oh wow no yeah

it was just us did you ever because i know at the parties he hired female prostitutes too or at least that was alleged but then there were no female prostitutes involved in your experience well yeah, and that's like,

I couldn't understand it.

I didn't understand how,

you know, but the guy said I was much different than their circle.

So that's.

I could see that.

I could definitely see that.

Wow.

So you actually had a closer, more intimate look at their dynamic and

his perversity

than

really just about anybody.

I can't confirm, but I...

The guys at the freak offs, though, there's like a thousand of them.

For you, it's just you, him, and her.

Yeah, yeah.

Every time.

Yeah.

Outside of Diddy, did you...

Was it always just these intimate little escort dates, just one woman?

Or were you invited to other Hollywood parties?

And how different was the Diddy experience in the Diddy Empire from your run-of-the-mill clients?

I would say just as far as like production goes.

So it was like there.

So the other dates, you know, I'd go out, we'd go see the town, have fun, and then it would end up, you know, at an intimate setting.

There, it just was always, it was always a production.

Every single time was for that scene, that point in time.

I was there to do my duty.

There was one time I got called at night and then called back again at 6 a.m.

So

I didn't know what was going on, but I don't know if they had a party in between or what, but I was just

Possibly.

Kind of rested up and then.

And you'd just take the call.

Yeah, text their call.

She texts this, you available this hour, this time.

A-listers show up and then the payment, you know, I'd go to the bank, send them his payment, and

cycle repeats.

When you say the scene,

with Diddy and Cassie, it sounds like, and then you say they were dictatorial and you do this.

Was it a performance like, you know, okay, you're the pizza boy now or something?

Or was it a

how directed, how scripted you were?

Well, I was going to try to propose that to Diddy one day, that we, because I'm like a, I'm not a white angel, but I'm white and I'm a lot softer than him.

So I was going to try to propose a setting where her and I are having dinner and, you know, we get a little flirty and he gets to do his thing and watch.

And then he comes in as the demon and control the situation.

But we never

I never was able to bring that up or anything because it was all his direction if

if

every scene was completely controlled and set up by him so

if we tried to introduce anything it just

whatever he wanted more baby oil you know candle here

like

hundreds or not hundreds like 50 60 candles set up when you say you use this term angel and demon you mean like in the scene that you had written for yourself you would literally play an angel i'm the nice guy i'm like the soft guy having a fun or

he's the bad guy he's the bad guy yeah coming in and owning the situation and then

because that was the scene i'd playing out in my head you know i'm i'm there taking direction but i'm you know I'm not him.

I'm not the one.

Say, I want this.

I want this.

So that was kind of the, I was trying to elaborate with him and just grow our situations.

There was a time I proposed to her, hey, just, if you want me to come over, just send me a word,

like work or tie or fly, and I'll bring an outfit or something in correlation, and we'll have fun.

Well, that never really went anywhere.

They just call me, all right, here this time.

Yeah.

I take it you spoke to Diddy once since when he called you when you were in Hawaii.

Have you talked to her at all?

No, no.

This is

a question from ignorance of pop culture.

Are they still dating?

I don't know.

I think they're probably broken up, right?

I hope so.

Yeah, a long time gone, yeah.

She's got a husband now and some kids.

Oh.

Yeah.

And I do believe it was one of her personal trainers that became her husband.

And he was at, I saw a clip where he was at one of the cases and he got walked out or something.

I forget, I forget why,

but, and that's, you know, I wish the absolute best for him, you know.

To be able to move on and from what she experienced and

to have a family, it's a beautiful thing.

So what about, because you've got this very nice, sort of resilient spirit where you're kind of looking on the bright side and saying, That was a mistake?

I do a lot, yeah.

I tend to look on the bright side of things, yeah.

But you don't want to paper, you don't want to paper over bad things, you don't want to

learn from your mistakes and go on to have that be sanctifying and productive.

So, is there, if you look back, there's this thread of your people pleaser.

Is there anything that led you to become a gigolo

that

you have corrected so that you get to go in a better direction moving forward?

Yeah, you know, like the

I'll gauge challenges and opportunities now instead of just jumping head in.

I'll have to do a, you know,

how does this, how does this sit spiritually?

You know, you could look at the, I could simply look at the Ten Commandments and help me simplify my game plan.

You're going to church, I take it.

Or no.

Devout Christian, but there's, that's a long story behind that one.

That's too, I've been out of my church for some time now, but I will always love and serve God.

But you don't want to go to church?

It's a long story there.

It's a long story with my home church and the.

Think about a new church.

I can highly recommend the Catholic church.

It's very great.

Latin Mass is beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I could even make your recommendation in Hawaii.

They're not on the big island of Hawaii.

But I'm sure I could find one.

I'm sure I could get it.

Because I'm not just saying this to

you.

I'm not just because what I fear from your story is you tell me, oh, I made these mistakes, but hey, I learned from it, and it was better, and I thought it was good at the time,

which is an admission that sometimes our judgment gets very clouded.

And so you say, but I'm Christian.

I felt I was Christian at the time, and I felt I was serving God at the time, but I guess I wasn't.

And so then you have to ask yourself, well, how do you know if you're serving God now in the way he wants to?

And there are certain things you can do that God tells us to do, that Christians have done for 2,000 years, and that the ancient Israelites did before that, which are, you know, he tells you to go to church, tells you to keep holy the Sabbath day.

He tells you to gives you Ten Commandments.

He gives you a church.

Before he even gives you a Bible, he gives you a church, which

creates the canon of the Bible.

And the church can guide you.

And basically, you don't have to do it all on your own.

You can have some help here.

You know, there are all these wonderful resources.

That's what I struggle.

I struggle to ask for help, man.

That's one of the things in my spirit.

I hate to.

Yeah.

That's one of my things.

I struggle to ask for help.

But isn't that the very same kind of disordered desire for independence that maybe that maybe you saw even in your clients in your old life?

The desire to do it all on your own, make your own world all your own, just

have it be all about all you.

Even if you want to do good stuff.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's a hill I'm trying to climb and overcome.

That's one of my you know pieces of my puzzle I'm looking to figure out.

I know I never figure it out, but I know I know you might figure it out.

And I say it too, because though I've never been a gigolo or invited to any Diddy parties or anything like that, but I can sense in myself sometimes a disordered desire for independence.

Look, I work in politics and media.

There's a desire to control things, do it your way,

get your will done.

And

sometimes I have to correct that and say, oh, maybe that's not.

See, my battle with the church right now is that

when during the COVID COVID times I wanted I I thought it was I did not like closing the doors I wanted to I wanted to move in faith I wanted to be a shining light for those when fear hits you we can lean on our faith oh yeah and how I like I was hoping if it was just my pastor I wanted to be up there with him if everyone was afraid to come in let's open the doors for all who are willing and how I saw it is like

If it's part of our plan to die, God's in control of that.

We're not in control of that.

And then, so see, too, like, from what I had seen in my experience with the media, the doctor, the dean of medicine,

I saw that these narratives are used to control us.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like,

did a little digging on, oh, why do we have such a?

Why do we have such a, in the early days of COVID going into it, why was there such a scare for toilet paper?

Oh, because the media saw that they can sensationalize a story when there was an 18-wheeler, I think it was in Milwaukee or something, that it overturned.

So there is pictures of toilet paper all out on the road.

So they sensationalized that, take it nationwide, to get everyone to be under this control of this fear.

Yeah, there was a real promotion of survival fear.

And you're right, there were a bunch of churches and religious communities that closed.

You know, we luckily, I was able to keep going to church.

Though there were Protestant, Catholic, a lot of churches kind of, but even there was a pretty liberal Catholic church in Hollywood that they ended up doing mass outside and you couldn't go inside.

They kept the doors open, but they don't, and there was this probably 90-year-old priest who,

kind of a liberal guy for being a Catholic priest, 90-year-old guy.

And this guy was hearing confessions through an open door in the back.

He wouldn't stop hearing confessions, even though he was the most vulnerable, actually, being an older guy.

And he wouldn't, I thought, that's exactly the right attitude.

That's exactly, you have to,

you don't want the servile fear of this whole world world that you're just, this fetid, corrupt world that you're describing.

But you do want the holy fear of God.

Yes.

Where it's not just about, it's not just about you.

And that's where I

want to,

I have my own personal battles.

I respect and love my pastor that he didn't want, he closed the church because he didn't want anyone to get hurt.

He was worried of his people around him were getting sick and

such.

But I don't like that.

And he shouldn't have closed the church.

I don't like that.

You can say he had the best of intentions, but he did wrong.

That's no reason not to go to church.

Go find a better church.

You are.

I can give you some recommendations maybe in Hawaii.

But that's really wonderful.

I mean,

it's a virtue, you know, that you look on the bright side of things.

And

if you can pair that with reality, not just a delusional kind of bright side, but if you can pair the seeing the good in things

while seeing things really as they are, that's a wonderful way forward.

That's where this journey, you know,

in my Christian walk, you know, I struggle to read the Bible because I have ADH.

My attention doesn't last very long.

I read about two, three pages and I'm almost sleepy.

But I would read scriptures, you know, of how,

like, in a sense, the doctor of you.

I saw him in a position of respect and adoration where what he says should be true.

But when you see what he's really doing, he's a disgusting liar.

Yeah.

Yeah, there can be a lot of disillusionment because even with pastors and priests they can be totally oh yeah sorry sorry where i was going to is as i got deeper into the word i would read about the false pharisees and the false uh those in the church that may use their position and such in order to deceive just as you know like i take this example too my

my worldly vision of satan his big orange ugly demon ah scary guy horns yeah orange horn no satan is the most beautiful angel our eyes can see he is the

most gracious sounding.

He's

tempting.

Very tempting.

And that is the tool right there, is the deception.

Yeah, that's true.

You know, there was an ancient heresy called, is that docetism?

I think it was docetism, which said that the efficacy of the church's sacraments depended on the sanctity of the priest.

So if the priest were a bad guy, you know, if you got baptized by a bad guy, well, maybe your baptism isn't valid.

And happily, that was rejected as heresy

because God is bigger than the men who run the church.

So you could be baptized by some total degenerate who's,

I don't know, who's maybe hiring guys like you used to be,

but

God's sacraments still work.

Yep.

And God, and that's where I struggle.

I know that God knows the true intentions of the heart and such.

I don't.

And so in those situations where I may assume, because there are times where people at our church were telling us to wear masks and do these things.

And I saw that as, that's the mark mark of the beast.

Yeah, yeah.

That way, we just don't, like, you don't see it.

Like, how can you not see it?

It's not, like,

you're not getting 666 on your forehead, but you are succumbing to the fears of nothing.

If you're doing something that's that's totally irrational, that's not actually helping public health, it's just a fear symbol, then, yeah, you're probably right about that.

I also want to correct myself.

I don't think it's the docetists.

I think it's the Donatists.

But either way, it's an old heresy and it isn't true, and we got rid of it.

That's

good to

It's good that even in the depths of your sin, you were recognizing God is still there.

But of course, and

you got to do something about it.

You're going to get to action instead of just talk about it and say it.

Yeah, you got to get to action.

And this is why

this is one of the reasons I haven't attended, I haven't been to my church in so many years is that my,

I don't want to go in and turn tables, but I, because

you don't need to be in control.

Go to a,

maybe just go to a different church.

Yeah.

At least at first.

Maybe you can go back to your old church, but

you don't need to save the world.

God already saved the world.

That's a key.

Christ already saved the world.

That's key right there.

It's like many times

I always want what's best, but I can't make every situation best.

You can cooperate with God's grace.

So then on this point, maybe this is a good point to end on.

You've come out of this very degenerate lifestyle and you're moving in the right direction.

so

you haven't talked to Diddy in a while.

You haven't talked to Cassie in even longer.

Do you have any advice?

They might watch this interview.

Do you have any advice for them?

The only two words for Diddy is find Jesus.

There's no other, in my opinion, there's nothing else in this world that can satisfy him.

There's no conceivable, you know, on that path.

Like

it's no end.

to his path.

But yeah, find Jesus.

And to Cassie,

I hope to shake her hand again one day and thank her for, you know, her professionalism through our time together.

And she's a,

I look up to her.

I admire her, you know.

Even though, even through all that, like, it's, yeah, I got lots of respect for her.

And I wish the absolute best.

She's going to be in my prayers, you know.

I don't love her like a lover, but I love her as a fellow child of God.

And you're wishing the best for Diddy, too.

Oh, clearly.

I want him to have true justice.

I mean, I want him to have pure justice.

I want him to have justice for his actions.

But I want, I mean,

like, that's the thing, too.

Like,

I do want to party with every soul up there in heaven, you know, like

the real white party.

The good guy.

The one that, and, you know, like,

I can't, I don't want to proclaim that Diddy's gone and that's a demon that has no, there's no reconciliation, but God's greater than my thoughts, you know, God's greater than what I see possible.

And if some degenerate like that can bow before Christ, he could lead lead many.

So I'll have faith instead of, you know,

instead of just counting it off.

But absolutely.

I mean, I want him to have the purest form of justice times 10.

I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy.

You do something to others.

You deserve that upon yourself, plus much worse.

But in the course of justice, none of us should see salvation.

So you're hoping for a salvation, too?

Yeah, and that's with salvation.

God is that he's the true order of justice.

So

Joan, thank you very much.

It's been a pleasure, Michael.

Thank you.

These are questions that take cultures thousands of years to answer.

During Answer the Call, I take questions from people just like you about their problems, opportunities, challenges, or when they simply need advice.

How do I balance all of this grief, responsibility?

How do you repair this kind of damage?

My daughter, Michaela, guides the conversations as we hopefully help people navigate their lives.

Everyone has their own destiny.

Everyone.