The Interview They Didn't Want You To See: Michael & The Trans Widow | Tracy Shannon

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I thought we were gonna get marriage counseling.

She told me that I was closed-minded because I wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing.

She also told me that I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man that had this feminine side to him.

In 2010, the kids were ordered and told they could no longer call their father dad.

When we hear about transgenderism, which these days would appear to be all the time, it's almost always from the perspective of the transgender person, the person who feels that he is the opposite sex, what it means to be liberated from the shackles of oppression or whatever.

Sometimes we hear about transgenderism from the perspective of a child.

Though in that case, it's also often ostensibly from the perspective of a transgender person, the trans child who is coming to grips with his true identity and transitioning.

There is one group of people whose perspective we never hear about

when we talk about transgenderism, and that would be the women who are abandoned by their husbands, husbands who leave their families to pursue the transgender identity.

I am joined by one such trans widow, Tracy Shannon.

Tracy, thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Tracy,

let's just start from the beginning.

What happened?

I guess if we're starting from the beginning, we'd have to go back to early in my marriage to my first husband.

And

it became apparent that he he had an issue with cross-dressing.

So

at some point right after the birth of our first child

my baby was in the hospital and my husband came to see us and informed me that he had an issue with cross-dressing and that it was more than just what I had noticed in the first four years of our marriage, occasionally finding a piece article of clothing missing that was mine and in his possession or walking in on him

doing his fingernails or shaving and being in a state of arousal while shaving, which is totally normal for women, right?

No.

So it was more than that, he said, that he had had the issue with cross-dressing going all the way back to when he was a teenager, when he would borrow items of his mother's without her knowing and try them on.

So at that point, I said, well, we should go get counseling, you know, wanting to save our marriage.

And

I didn't know it, but he was already seeing a counselor, and that would be the counselor that we would go to.

So she.

Did he tell you at this point, I'm seeing a counselor and we should go talk to this person to get no.

No, I had no idea he had seen a counselor.

So you went into the counseling with this doctor without knowing that they already had a relationship.

Right.

And I thought our purpose was to save our marriage.

And

in my mind, that meant we would come to the natural conclusion that this was hurtful to me, that he was cross-dressing, and that it was damaging our marriage, and that he would

find a way to stop.

I was given all these excuses for why he might cross-dress, and none of them were that he felt like he was a woman, by the way.

But usually they were all my fault, according to him.

So

I thought we were going to get marriage counseling.

And I thought the natural conclusion would be that he would stop cross-dressing.

But instead, when we talked to the therapist, she told me that I was closed-minded because...

I wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing.

And she suggested that he be able to go out with these men on their cross-dressing field trips and dinners on the weekends and the evenings, and without my knowledge.

And I wouldn't have to know where he was going.

But he would just tell me something, and it would be out of sight, out of mind.

If I didn't know about it, it shouldn't bother me.

And that he could have a P.O.

box even where he would get

catalogs where he could order female clothes and he would, you know, just hide all that stuff from me.

And I'd never have to know about it.

And because I wasn't okay with that, I was closed-minded.

I hope that this marriage counselor has had her license revoked.

I don't know if they have licenses.

Has anyone ever said the key to a happy marriage is deception, not knowing where your spouse is, the pursuit of bizarre sexual fetishes that make the other person uncomfortable?

Has anyone ever in history said that until five minutes ago?

Well, this was in 1998.

And so apparently this therapist who actually taught a class for many years in Houston about how to have a long and lasting relationship

she also told me that I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man and that had this so-called inner feminine side to him, which I didn't know anything about except for the fact that he borrowed my bra when he went on a business trip one time or I caught him

applying nails or shaving a couple times.

But

I just didn't buy into that.

There's this inner female or feminine side that he needed to express to be able to relax.

So for that,

I was closed-minded, and I must be a lesbian, because obviously I fell in love with him and married him, so therefore I'm a lesbian.

There is so much to unpack on the premises even of

what a lesbian would even be if you could be attracted to a man, someone who looks exactly like a man, but on some weird, deep, new age kind of level is really a woman or whatever.

But you gave a simpler explanation earlier.

I don't want to get too

graphic, I guess.

But you say you walk in on your husband, he's cross-dressing, and he's in a state of arousal.

So all of these explanations as to why he's cross-dressing, you say that he blamed you for this.

I guess now people would say that he's secretly a woman.

It would appear to me in my untutored view of things, you got the answer, which is it's a sexual fetish.

And he was aroused by the thought of being a woman or wearing women's clothing.

And so, I don't know, some guys like legs, and I guess this guy likes putting on women's clothing, but

it's a fetish.

It's a kind of base sexual desire.

Right.

I always felt instinctively that it was a type of infidelity, that there is this elusive other woman he was creating to spend time alone with, and that this was hampering our intimacy in our marriage.

But in fact, fact, it's even worse.

This particular therapist, you asked about what's she doing now.

Well, now she's written a book to help parents transition their children.

It's a confusing topic, and obviously you've gone through it so personally and so with such trauma.

But you go to the counseling,

this woman takes your husband's side and says, no, you've got to be open-minded and let him go gallivant with the boys dressed up in high heels and have his own P.O.

box and

basically choose his sexual fetish over your marriage.

Then what?

It's worse than that.

She actually wrote him the letter to transition while we were married.

And this was early on in our marriage.

We were married for a total of 15 years.

This was in the fourth year of our marriage.

So at this time, she wrote the letter for him to transition.

And he then got on hormone therapy and started to develop little breast while we were married.

I was told the reason for the breast development was that he was taking OCD medication to help him not want to cross-dress.

So I actually felt sorry for him that he was developing these breast buds that were embarrassing, that he would wear a t-shirt when we went to the public swimming pool with our kids.

I mean, I felt sorry for him, and I was trying to

just be a loving wife, and it affected things.

You know,

I feel very deceived that he was having this lesbian fantasy and growing these breasts while we were married and having intimate relations.

I think that totally undermines the idea of consent that is so popularized by, you know,

used by the left to onboard all these other things that

we don't agree to as Christians and conservatives, especially when they're talking about our kids.

So.

Well, you know, you talk about this term trans widow, and I think people lose parents, and it's hard to lose a parent when you're young, but it happens, and there's a kind of a

comfort in knowing that person is gone, and there's a finality to it, and there's a closure to it,

even if it's painful.

Wives lose their husbands, and they die.

It's sad, but there is a finality to it, and you can grieve it.

But in this case,

the person is still there.

They just deny who they are.

And so you have all the downside of it with none of the comfort, even with this question of infidelity.

If your husband had just been having an affair, it's ugly, nasty, terrible, you could grieve it.

This seems particularly insidious because the person he's having an affair with,

the other woman, is just a version of himself.

It's so much darker.

Right.

And

there's this ambiguous grief that the kids have to process and that the wife has to process.

Losing the person you know for years and the only father that the kids have ever known.

And not only does the outward appearance change, but their behavior, their interests change.

My son, my oldest, had bought my

ex-husband a book when we were still married, when he was 10 years old.

It was called The Dangerous Book for Boys.

It's a big red book, a hardcover, and it has all kinds of activities for a father and son to do together.

And they did one activity.

I think it was making paper airplanes one time.

And after that, it just went on a shelf and collected dust and never to be picked up again by

my then husband, by his father.

And it had a nice note in the front that my son had written about how he wanted to do all these things with him and he was really looking forward to it.

But instead, his father would become a fake woman and would lose interest in doing all those boy things with him.

And who would he do those boy things with after that?

Who would do the father-son things with him?

People don't ever hear about.

the heartbreaking reality or the many nights that my children cried themselves to sleep and I had to get up out of bed and go comfort them because they miss their father and although they did see him dressed as a woman it's not the same there is no funeral to say goodbye to the father there's no sympathy for me as a trans widow there's

instead

when I told someone that my husband was transitioning and that was what caused the end of our marriage, they would say to me, and they still say today, even this morning, a woman said to me something similar, well, at least he can be happy now, or no, sorry, she,

at least she can be happy now.

And how did it affect her and her family?

And I mean, people feel like they have to obey this ideology, even when the person we're talking about is not around, that they're going to respect.

these pronouns.

It's just so weird brainwashing that's overcome America to the degree that we have no empathy for the people that we should be having empathy for.

We're told to feel sorry for the person who's cross-dressing their ass off or the fetishist,

the person who's

doing this transition.

But no one's even talking about what's happening to the kids in this, what they're missing, and what happens to the women.

My ex had

a very good six-figure salary when he left.

It's even better now.

So contrary to what they say, these guys are not all poor.

I think you recognize that Deirdre McCloskey is not poor.

Yes, this professor, I was supposed to debate, this professor,

on gender, and he identifies as a woman.

He's an economist, but he has multiple degrees from Harvard, very...

Very successful, affluent by all measures.

We're supposed to feel sorry for them because they just have a hard time with a career career and all that because the bigoted Americans, but that's really not the case.

My ex has a good career.

So do many of the people that he's friends with that came and testified in our divorce case that they were great parents and that he was a great parent, even though they spent no time, no time around him.

The part that's so hard for me to get is

I guess it keeps coming back to this word fetish because fetish,

the original meaning of fetish refers to an idol, like a religious idol.

You know, the pagans have their fetishes.

And I guess it still does.

You know, this idea that you would put

some glittering object, be it a body part or a fantasy or just anything, above reality and above...

the things that you're supposed to care for the most to say, okay, I've got a choice here.

I can either live up to my marriage vows and be a husband to my wife and be a father to my children, or I can titillate myself by putting on a dress.

And

to think that when confronted with these irreconcilable choices, you cannot, if you identify as a woman, you cannot be a husband to your wife.

That's foreclosure.

You cannot be a father to your children if you're going to pretend to be a woman.

And they would say,

I'm going to choose to titillate myself with the high heels and the skirt over my wife and my kids and any obligation that I might have.

And to be celebrated for doing it.

Right.

And in our case, destroying the family, wrecking the marriage, we had to move out of our family home.

You had to move out.

He didn't move out.

We both ended up moving out, but he had an income.

I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years at that time.

So I didn't have a job.

And I had homeschooled my kids.

So everything had to change for us.

We were homeless.

So I had to go live with my mom and dad in their house for a couple years while I got on my feet financially because it took time.

And the court only initially ordered him to pay $500 a month child support for three kids.

So I was trying to make it all come together.

And that's part of the father's role, man's role, provider.

And to think that now it's just okay that the state will tell you

how much you'll provide.

And other than that, you don't have to do anything because of the fetish that you wanted to indulge.

It's just really insulting to the family.

And that society actually thinks this is okay.

They think this is okay because kids are supposedly really resilient.

Oh, if I hear that phrase,

if I never heard that phrase again in my life, it would be too soon.

Because, you know, it's only ever used to justify child abuse.

It's only ever used.

Oh, yes, dad ran off and, you know, the parents are fighting and the kid is being trans and his education is being neglected.

Oh, don't worry.

Kids are resilient.

Well, they're not so resilient.

It's had really hard consequences for my children.

And I think if you looked at them, you'd think they're doing great, especially considering all the negative things that can happen to children of divorce and children in alternative type of families and everything they've been exposed to, which maybe we'll get into that.

But they look like they're doing fine, but it's been a long way.

How old are they now?

So they're all over 18 now.

My youngest with him is 19, and I have a 20-year-old and a 24-year-old.

And so,

but between the three of them, there have been six suicide attempts of different degrees of seriousness, and one hospitalization in a mental health facility

for

a pretty good period of time for one.

And now our haters would say that's because I didn't accept this ideology and take my kids to some type of indoctrination, like GLAD.

And in fact, that was one of the things that was brought up that they wanted me to have to take my kids for re-education.

Who wanted that?

His lawyers when we first were divorcing.

And in fact, when we went to court,

The kids were the first time we went to court because we went twice because if you dare tell a transgender no, you're going to get spanked and sued, which is what happened.

And I got sued for full custody of my kids a second time after we had already settled the divorce because I dared to tell him that you couldn't have your lover spending the night with my kids.

You just can't move your lover in.

We have a morality clause.

It's something that we have in Texas.

It basically says that...

Hold on, I got to stop you there.

This is happening in Texas.

Yes.

I knew you lived in Texas now.

This is happening.

This whole thing is going going on in supposedly the most conservative state in the country.

Yes.

And originally we started our divorce in Ohio.

And Ohio actually would treat a woman like myself way better.

We actually would have got spousal support.

Someone like me would get spousal support.

for life unless we remarried.

But in Texas, it's worse.

They can walk away with their six-figure income, leave you homeless with hardly any child support while they go right off into the sunset in a skirt.

And you have to figure out how you're going to put your life together, pay for daycare, pay for three kids.

And you're cut down to half the time with your kids, less than half, because I homeschooled them.

So I had them half the time, plus

when they were with me, they were in school.

So all the time we had together, because they had to go to public school, he got an injunction against me homeschooling for no reason.

The homeschooling wasn't even part of the discussion in our divorce pleadings.

But at the very end, he asked for it and he got it.

That was in

2010.

So, and in 2010, the kids were ordered to court-ordered therapy where they were coached on the right pronouns to use for their father and told they could no longer call their father dad.

So, the right pronouns, meaning the wrong pronouns.

Yeah, the wrong ones.

So, they had to call their dad she and her and couldn't call him dad.

That's right.

And they had to come up with a new name to call him, which I think is probably one of the most heartbreaking things of the whole thing.

I mean, they're already feeling ghosted, and now you have professionals with the power of the state behind them telling them that they can't call their father dad.

Eventually, they no longer run along with that.

So the kids maintained a relationship with him.

I guess they had to, even if they didn't want to, they had to, ordered by the court.

Right, and they loved their dad, but they were very confused.

And one was really scared when this initially happened to even go with their dad because of the changes in appearance and the strange people that he was taking the kids around.

He's obviously insane.

He's just a crazy person, right?

A sane person doesn't do this.

Well, it's the root of it is selfishness.

And

the kids were not a fan.

They have different relationships with him.

Between the three, one has none at all, is not interested, the oldest.

The middle child maintains a relationship.

He's a traditional Catholic.

He wants to remain present to remind his father who he really is, and he continues to pray for him that he will have a complete conversion.

And then

the youngest is involved with him more than anybody, but

part of that is because

financially she can get what she wants from him.

Right.

Okay.

So they've got these different degrees of relationship now as adults, but at the time,

your ex-husband is involved with someone else and you said has a lover that he's bringing around.

And this person I assume is in the

community.

Oh yeah, an activist in the community as well, like

a leading activist in the state of Texas.

So this is a man or this is a woman?

It's a woman that has beard and is has male pattern hair loss and is fat and

not very attractive.

And that's who he left to be with when he initially left.

That

really did make me feel really

bad about myself when that happened.

But this was a woman who had her breast amputated.

And when she did, she walked around in front of my kids with her shirt off showing the the scars and she would give herself shots of a testosterone in front of the kids And she also asked the kids to help her with those shots, but they did not do that.

So

she also threatened to punish them and they would get spankings if they misgendered

my

ex-husband, their father.

They would be spanked

by your ex-husband, I guess.

with his

whatever.

That was a threat.

And they would be threatened with spankings if they called their father him and her.

It is just

so

unjust.

It's just so unjust.

And you've got to just sit idly by and watch this happen because the courts are telling you to do it and the

and the counselor that you met with was encouraging all of this.

So I sort of cut you off.

You said this started four years into your marriage.

You were married for a total of 15 years, you said?

How does it, how do you get from four to 15?

There were instances of cross-dressing in there.

Then there were times that I thought nothing was happening and I thought everything was fine.

Of course, he was taking the hormones behind my back.

I did wonder, as a woman, why we lacked sexual intimacy in our marriage a lot of times.

And my answer to that eventually would come at the end of our marriage when I would find out he was secretly on those hormones and that lowered his libido.

And so when he wanted to have another baby with me, then he would stop taking the hormones long enough so that he could get me pregnant and so we could have sexual relations.

In fact, that's not just me guessing.

I read about that in numerous messages between him and another lover he had met online while we were still married.

So someone before before that one.

I assume the hormones don't just affect the sex drive.

I assume it affects, I assume it affects

sperm count.

Right.

I don't know.

I was guessing but I see it.

It's damaging to the sperm.

And so

at one point I did have a miscarriage with a

pregnancy that the byproducts of pregnancy grew into cancer.

And I always wondered if it was because the sperm was, there was something wrong with the sperm.

And And in fact, when that happened, he's like, he said, I feel like I gave you cancer.

And I thought that was a really weird thing to say.

So in retrospect, I'm thinking,

is it possible?

I'm not a scientist.

I don't know.

I mean, I do know what a woman is, but...

But she's ahead of most scientists.

Yeah, but I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.

But

it might.

He at least said this thing.

He said that thing out loud.

And so it always made me wonder.

And I do recall on our wedding day, I actually had asked him just joking hey is there he had called me before my bridal brunch and I said is there anything you need to tell me last chance before we you know take our vows today

and he was quiet and I thought

is there something

you know you know was it really I was just kidding and then he said oh no there's nothing and then years later he told me that that day he was going to tell me that he had cross-dressed in his past, but he was afraid I wouldn't marry him.

So

it was in his mind, and he just deceived me and thought that I was one day going to accept all this.

But in those years, he would cross-dress occasionally.

Not right openly out in front of me like some of these men do, which is just awful, the level of view some of the trans widows take with their husbands doing this outlandish stuff and telling the women they just have to deal with with it.

But I would find out by finding some stash clothes or a receipt for some clothes that he dressed up in and threw away.

Usually I would smell the smell of acetone in the house or in the trash can, and that meant he was playing in nails.

So

one time

when

our middle son was still a baby,

And I was pregnant with my third child,

he fashioned himself a pregnancy belly.

You've seen like on Jerry Springer or Dr.

Phil or something where the men are trying to find out the experience of their wives when they're pregnant.

So he tried to pass it off as he's just trying to empathize with me.

Now, this is our third baby.

So if you're the time to empathize with me for being pregnant, like passed like many years ago.

We've done this a few times.

I think he saw this as his last chance maybe to

do this.

In fact, this was my

third pregnancy so no fourth pregnancy third baby and he

added enormous breasts to this

thing that he wore and they were made with water balloons it was really bothering my oldest son that he was walking around with this thing on and

with woman's clothes over top.

And he told me, this is how he would be

like

coercive.

He would say things like, I'm trying to help you.

I'm going to do all your chores for you.

Like I had diesel sign chores and

I'm going to do all the housekeeping.

You just rest.

And he was buzzing around very happy in that thing that he made.

And I finally just told him, I just feel like you're cross-dressing and it's making me really uncomfortable.

So I wish you wouldn't do that anymore.

And he wasn't willing to give it up.

He still kept pressuring me.

I need to do this so I can understand you.

Just relax.

I'm going to

take all, take care of everything, take care of all your responsibilities around here.

You can just put your feet up.

So, my son, who was very disturbed by this, actually went and destroyed that thing with a pair of scissors, drug it out of the drawer and destroyed it because it bothered him seeing his dad like that.

So you can only imagine how it felt when he was six years older.

His dad decides he's going to become a woman and he goes and and gets giant breast implants and a nose job and grows his hair out long and he's hanging his bras all around his trashy apartment for my son to see and whenever he would hug my son, he'd rub his breast up against him.

People don't think about what this is like for the boys.

They don't think about what that's like at all.

Dads have a certain feeling when you give them a hug.

And now their dad was soft and his enormous breast would rub up against them.

And that made them really uncomfortable.

Yeah, there's a dream, a recurring dream that sometimes people have when a loved one dies.

And the dream is that the person is still there.

They just went away.

They went to a farm upstate, I don't know.

And you see this person again.

And what makes the dream so agonizing is that you say, where were you?

Where'd you go?

Wait, what?

I've been, you're still here?

Oh my goodness.

And it's a common thing, but it's a dream.

And you wake up and you say, oh, okay, good.

This is a reality

that a kid would have to, more so even than a wife, I guess, though a wife too, would have to deal with every day of just, oh man, I really just turned 13.

Just got on the baseball team.

Sure would like to have a catch with my dad.

Oh, I don't have a dad.

Well, I kind of do, but

he won't be a dad.

And he insists that I not only tolerate that and move on with it and pretend it's not a, but that I celebrate it too.

I just can't imagine.

Right.

When he was with his first lover,

she would often try to encourage my son to wear like pride bracelets to school and tell him that he needed to join the, it used to be called the Gay Street Alliance.

Yeah, we had one at my school.

It's now called the Gender Sexuality Alliance.

I think in part because they want to incorporate the gender thing.

And who cares about those straits anymore?

They serve their purpose.

Right.

Well, no straight kids are joining that.

Of course.

So they would make the announcements all the time at school.

And my son said, no straight kids are going to that.

But she tried to pressure him to go to that.

And

my son didn't want to do that.

He felt like this destroyed his family.

And you talk about having a game of pitch with your dad and that's the kind of thing that my son missed out on and he was interested in playing baseball he made the baseball team in high school and he was very proud of himself for that but when every other kid had a father to come pitch with them he had nobody he was embarrassed for his dad to show up yeah of course you know and and the the left answer to that is that we should all start embracing this so that my kid doesn't have to be embarrassed.

I would tell you, I can speak for my kids on this.

That's not what they want.

They do not want this indoctrination that's going on in the schools.

They used to put their heads down and cry when there was an event being planned at school for

father and son or father and daughter, not because they're jealous about the other kids or they want their dad to be recognized.

They're sad because they...

feel like they don't have a father and they're embarrassed by the one that they had.

Rightly so, by the the way.

You know, I'm all for honoring your mother and father.

I think you actually always owe respect and even love to your parents, even if you got bad parents.

It is right to be embarrassed by something that is embarrassing.

If your father engages in extremely shameful behavior and it's very selfish behavior and all the rest of it,

It would be wrong not to feel some embarrassment.

There'd be something off about you if you didn't feel.

Right.

And the kids were made fun of.

When the other kids would see their father, why is your dad wearing earrings?

Why is your dad trying to look like a girl?

And

other parents would ask me, who is that strange woman that was at soccer practice?

And

they didn't want to let their kids play with my kids after they knew the truth because, and I don't blame them.

Yeah, I don't blame them because

how can you even begin to understand something like that?

And knowing what I know, I know it's rooted in fetishism.

Yeah, of course.

I wouldn't want my kids around that either.

So I don't blame them.

But it was the sad reality we had to deal with that, and

I'm being called the bigot, you know, for not wanting to be on board with all this, for not supporting it.

I'm accused of being the one who caused this transition.

Even my ex accused me of causing this transition.

Your ex-husband, who you,

he said that he had been doing this since he was a teenager, and he was sneaking around behind your back.

He says that you caused the behavior that predates you?

Right.

It's my fault he transitioned because if I just would have given him another chance, he just, he wouldn't have done it.

But he was already doing it.

That's the reality.

But unfortunately, for a time, my kids believed that.

They believed it was my fault.

And just like I was supposed to believe while we were married it was my fault that he cross-dressed because i wasn't um doing the right things you know wasn't um

giving him the attention he wanted or doing the sexual things that he wanted and so you know what happened in those 14 years i told you about the pregnancy belly

there was a time in those not 14 those 11 years that he

after the birth of our first daughter she wouldn't take a bottle so I was very stressed out with like, I can't even leave the house for more than an hour and a half because

she has to be breastfed.

And

so he offered to breastfeed her.

Yeah.

How do you plan on doing that?

That's what I wondered at the time.

I wondered like

how he, of course I was not on board with that.

That's absurd.

And he kept bringing it up, like pressuring me.

I said, no.

He said, yeah, I can help you.

It was always, I'm helping you, and I'm I'm trying to understand you.

I'm trying to give you a break.

I said, no, don't ever bring it up again.

He had sent me articles on how men in third world countries were able to lactate.

And I'm like, we're not desperate.

You know,

I'll just breastfeed until she's done breastfeeding.

It's a short phase of life.

Men can,

especially if they're pumped with all these chemicals and poisons and things that the modern pro-trans movement pushes,

they can produce something.

And men have mammary glands.

They can produce something.

This is in no way established as safe by the FDA or anything like that.

I mean,

no one knows what this means for the babies, but some men who have gone really far down this rabbit hole with

enough shots in them will be able to produce something.

This is, I can't imagine, the best for the baby.

Certainly not the best for your marriage or for anyone's flourishing.

And so you look at them and you say, no, thanks.

I'm good.

We'll figure it out.

Don't bring it up again or I'm divorcing you.

That's what I told him.

I don't even know how I stayed after you even brought that up, but people need to understand that trans widows, when we're in those relationships, we're dealing with narcissism.

We're very gaslighted.

Most of us have experienced different forms of abuse, whether it be physical, sexual, emotional, and financial.

Usually all four of those.

So that's why we stay through these absurdities and atrocities.

And, you know,

and because you're trying to make it work.

Definitely.

I mean,

to me,

divorce is hard enough on children.

It definitely has consequences that society doesn't want to talk about anymore since we've normalized the destruction of family.

But

I also didn't want my kids to be alone with someone who's this unhinged.

So I thought I could maybe control this because he loved me and I loved him and we cared about these kids that we could somehow keep it in.

in balance and keep things from derailing.

But I just didn't have that kind of control.

You know, there's the internet where he found all this stuff on.

I'm sure I didn't know anything about these types of fetishes, especially regarding men breastfeeding.

And that is a form of fetish.

And now I'm convinced for him it was too.

And he was trying to have that experience with our daughter.

And that should have been considered in the custody here.

I mean, we used to protect children.

Yeah.

We used to protect family and honor the truth.

And we had some type of way in society of just keeping social norms.

But by the time I had gone to court in 2010,

that wasn't the case.

I mean, before that, a man doing what he was doing, I was in a support group for women whose husbands cross-dressed.

It was for Christian women.

And only two of those women had their husbands transitioned.

None of the women who were divorced in that support group, none of their women shared custody with their ex.

None.

This was a landmark case in Texas when he got shared custody of the kids.

And that's because things had evolved to such a point in our society that now, and this was a Republican judge too, by the way, now we're not protecting the kids.

We're being

apathetic.

We're saying like pretending like it doesn't matter.

But at this point, in 2023, it's even worse because if I don't validate that stuff, if I don't agree with it and teach it, I'm the one who's going to lose my kids.

But the fact, even in 2010, I was asked in court, how will you,

as a Christian conservative woman, how are you going to co-parent with this lovely trans woman over here?

Not only is transgenderism accepted as true, an absurd ideology is not accepted as true, but transgender identifying people are now a protected class.

So now they are the chief victims.

It's their well-being, supposed well-being, that the courts are primarily concerned with, even in Texas, even with a Republican judge, with Republicans like that, who needs Democrats.

Right.

And I would remind people that in Texas, we have trifecta Republican leadership.

We have majority Republicans in both chambers, the House and the Senate, a Republican governor, Republican lieutenant governor, Republican

Attorney General.

And

in Texas, you can, a man who is married can go change his documents legally to reflect a lie that he is a woman.

And that is what my ex did before we went to court.

Before we went to court,

he was legally a woman.

So I was now divorcing a woman on paper.

So you're a lesbian.

Right, a paper lesbian.

A paper lesbian.

According to the courts, you're a lesbian.

Yeah.

So I guess the therapist is right after all.

She had a point.

When we all go through the looking glass, I guess she had a point.

So

your husband, you find that he's getting into all this kind of weird porn stuff.

He is, as you, I mean, it's a hideous, it's like a horrifying way to put it, but he would have been using your daughter as an instrument for his sexual gratification had you allowed this breastfeeding insanity to go on.

He was already wearing items of her, like some of her accessories, her like bows.

I mean, this was a bait, this is a baby girl.

When we divorced, she was five years old.

He was already wearing items of her clothing.

I couldn't stay and let him violate her the way that I had been violated.

Right.

You know, putting on clothes out of my closet and realizing they're stretched out.

Realizing my high-heeled boots are stretched out and my panties stretched out

because he had been in them.

I guess the disconnect, nothing surprises me anymore.

This still does a little bit.

Had you walked in on your husband with another woman, you would have every right to kick him to the curb, you know, scream at him, yell at him, he's the bad guy, you're the good guy.

Had you walked in on your husband looking at porn, which is increasingly, I think, becoming prominent in these cases of transition.

In fact, the guys behind the Matrix movies, the

Wachowski brothers, who are now the Wachowski sisters, well, one of them admitted that it was pornography that made him start to transition, that he got down this rabbit hole of porn and he started to fantasize about being a woman, and now he's chopped himself up and looks like a woman.

So we know this happens.

If you walked in on your husband looking at porn,

I think even today you would still be considered in the right to yell at him and say, you're the bad guy, I'm the good guy, get some help, quit doing this.

This is absolutely degenerate.

you know, cut it out.

But for some reason, because the pornography and the obscenity and all the prurient stuff has to do with him pretending to be a woman,

it's okay.

I guess so.

I mean, my ex actually had told me, even fairly recently when I asked, that he never watched porn while we were married.

and still does not to this day and has not ever.

That's his claim when I asked about it because my daughter told me that he watched porn in front of her.

So I went back and asked again to my daughter, your dad said this did not happen.

Did this happen?

She said, oh, yes, it did happen.

He watched porn.

She would sleep on the couch when she had visitation with him and he would be in there watching pornographic videos in front of her, according to her.

So

who do you believe?

I think I have my answer.

I don't know.

I believe my daughter, of course.

Yeah.

Especially after years of being lied to.

And just knowing what I know now about the

otogynophiles, which are men who are aroused by the idea of themselves being women, knowing a lot about that and seeing what I've seen online, which wasn't as prevalent back then as it is now, I believe her.

I believe that he, once again, this is another lie.

It's just insane that society is accepting all this and they don't recognize the experiences of these children, what they're going through.

My children were exposed to sex toys at their father's house that they just found lying about the house, like openly on the bed.

He had two of my children sleeping with him and his lover

in their bed that they shared.

That is entirely inappropriate.

And

in addition to that, this lover threatened to kill my kids, the female, the male, on testosterone, threatened to kill my kids, threatened to kill my ex-husband, and threatened to kill me.

And

the kids were telling their therapist about, the court-ordered therapist, they told her about abuse and neglect at his house.

They weren't telling me all this all the time because they were protecting me because I already was so devastated by everything that had happened.

But they told her, and she did nothing about it until we went to court the second time when he decided to sue me for having the audacity to tell him you can't have your lover move in

and sleep over with the kids yeah and sleep with them by the way so

for doing that I was sued for full custody of the kids and when I fought back I did win but and I got that

abusive person removed from their lives but at the same time I had to depose this therapist to get it on the record about the abuse but I shouldn't have had to do that we should have had common sense to protect the children the first time in court.

I don't know much about therapists.

The little I know is that I thought they had an obligation to report if there were.

They do.

Everybody in Texas, by the way, is a mandated reporter.

Everybody.

So anybody that knows of abuse has to report, not just a teacher, not just a therapist.

But she definitely had a duty to report.

So why didn't she do it?

When she was asked on the record why she didn't do it, she didn't think that CPS would do anything in Harris County, where I live.

So what?

So what?

That upsets.

Oh, so you don't want to spend the five minutes of your day?

So the kids had no one to fight for them.

I feel really bad that I didn't or felt that I couldn't do more for them because I didn't know about it.

I didn't have money to go to court every time something went wrong.

But when I finally did do something,

What I feared would happen would happen.

He came with well-funded lawyers who he didn't have to pay.

These were activist lawyers with a transgender activist law firm that took up his cause because

they wanted to have a to defend parental rights of a transgender father.

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Let's get back to the table.

We were at, I was at a meeting with the court ad litem for the kids, and a courier came in with a check from a donor to give her from one of these activist organizations.

She got paid by them.

So they asked me, are you okay with this?

I'm like, well, I mean,

what am I going to do?

You're getting paid by his half.

I had to pay my half out of my pocket.

His half was being paid by an activist.

So it was just all very lopsided.

Fortunately, the ad litem was very freaked out by everything that was going on.

She, despite being liberal herself, was

actually freaked out and was on the side of the children.

She actually did have a heart for children.

In an earlier age, not that long ago, decades ago,

people who would engage in this kind of behavior would be locked up in padded cells and told the truth and put into counseling to reconcile their fantasies with reality.

And today,

we're not quite at the point where you're being put in a padded cell, but the legal system is pretty tilted against you and against

your children and against any person who would speak the truth.

I mean,

my relationship to this issue is not even in the same stratosphere of what you're talking about.

I just say things on camera and I found out just a couple of days ago that

I will be permanently removed from YouTube, which is obviously the largest video sharing platform in the world, owned by Google, which controls the flow of information around the entire internet and the public square.

I will be nuked.

I will be personally banned forever if I persist in saying that these men are men and refer to them as he and him.

I'm not the only one, obviously.

They're going after anyone with a sizable platform who says this,

which means that, for all intents and purposes,

If the people who control public discourse in a republic where you govern yourself by speaking to one another, if they are saying, you have to believe in transgenderism or you cannot speak about the issue,

then that's it.

That means transgenderism is established in law and you're just out of luck.

And the actual victims of this, because I'm a guy who speaks on camera, the people who actually have to deal with the day-to-day of what this means for your family, for your children, for everything.

Yeah, you're out.

Sorry.

I mean,

it didn't even have to be codified into law to be enforced by the courts, because it already is.

Like in my case, when I went to court, every day was a battle over pronoun usage, trying to get me to use the preferred pronouns of my ex-husband and with the threat that I could be held in contempt.

Luckily, the judge didn't want to go along with those requests.

Instead, she asked me on the final day, how do you feel about that?

How do you feel about using you know, those pronouns?

And I said, well, I think that's very intolerant of them, the people who say that they want tolerance.

That's not what they want.

They don't want tolerance.

They want complete submission to their new state religion.

And even without codifying it into law, you see where we're at because we don't have a common morality anymore in our country.

So this has swooped in in its place and it's being enforced by like corporate corporations and a lot of big money.

All the big corporations.

Yeah.

I mean, in Texas, a father lost custody of his son over this.

And he's not the only one.

People think it's a one-off, but it's not.

The year before, in 2021, on the Senate floor, a mother testified.

She was testifying against the bill to stop the transition of minors.

She testified that her ex-husband was cut out of her kid's life because he didn't affirm the transition.

He didn't affirm it.

So he was cut out, just like Jeff Younger.

It's right there.

It's on video.

The transition of the kid, you mean?

Right.

The minor.

Yeah.

With surgeries.

Her daughter had surgeries, but the, and it's right on,

admitted, right on tape.

I have it on my Rumble because YouTube won't allow it.

But the mother's admitting that she had the father completely cut out of her kid's life over not affirming the transition.

This was probably a loving father.

And

those aren't the only cases.

People just can't speak out.

Just like for years, you weren't hearing from me or women like me, because when you're married to these or married to them what can you do but when you divorce them

then you're under a

the courts so you might get drugged back in the court and they'll bring up a video like us talking right now and say how can she be expected to co-parent right so I couldn't really speak as openly about this until the kids were older I did before we were out from under our court decree or divorce decree because they were old enough and I I actually know that his current spouse would not want our kids.

She didn't want any kids.

So I felt pretty sure he wasn't going to try to get custody away anymore.

But also because I had the assurance that I would beat him in court because we have enough.

Some of the things I shared.

Is the current spouse that person who was threatening and sleeping in the bed with her children?

No, there was a court injunction to, I got a court order that she couldn't be around the kids anymore.

And and so he had to follow that and that relationship ended around the same time that he also got a job in another state outside of Texas and he moved so this was good for us because we had less interaction less corrupting the kids for a while and

he met someone else he actually married a woman so and then they're a regular woman

well she identifies as a lesbian and they win all these like female golf championships together yeah I'm sure he does.

Yeah, I mean, he's hitting from the female tees now.

And he grew up on a golf course, you know.

Wow.

It's my only chance I ever have at winning any golf tournaments.

I mean, I know.

But, you know, so he's cheating.

And, you know, he had his kids help him cheat.

on the golf course.

I think it was a horrible lesson, having them be caddies.

You know, my younger children, when they were visiting him in the summers on their summer summer breaks, on their mandated visits, caddy for him

while he's cheating, essentially cheating, because it's allowed.

Yeah.

You mentioned that your son is a traditional Catholic.

I am also a mackerel-snapping, you know, traditional papist.

And so the Catholics famously say, no divorce.

And this has been the teaching of the church for 2,000 years.

And

there is such a thing, however, as annulment.

And I think in the popular culture, sometimes people don't really get it.

They think it's just Catholic divorce, you know, but it's not because the difference is annulment asks was this marriage valid in the first place?

And so there are annulment investigations and one of the things that one looks for in an annulment investigation is was something concealed?

Did the parties enter into this marriage knowing what they were getting into or was some really important fact concealed?

One such example perhaps might be what your husband concealed from you, that

he was cross-dressing.

So

that would seem to be an exemplary

example of that.

Well, that in the Catholic teachings, taking the hormones which made him sterile

and trying to prevent

a baby would be also an...

Right.

No, I mean, you could go through a litany of the things that obviously went wrong here.

But I guess then it has me wondering.

When you got married, you're Christian.

You're getting married and, you know, a Christian ceremony, whether it's a nuptial mass or something like that.

Is your husband Christian?

Do you guys agree on what marriage is or are you coming from totally different backgrounds?

No, we totally agreed.

We actually met in youth group while we were in college.

So, and we had,

we actually got married at the church that we met at,

and our children were in pageants.

We actually, we were Methodists, and our kids were in, and this particular church, the one that we got married at, is still a conservative Methodist church.

It hasn't adopted the gay marriage mindset.

It's like the last conservative Methodist church.

It might be one of the last ones in Texas.

And

we are members of another smaller Methodist church, which was also conservative back then.

It isn't so much now.

But

we were active in our church.

I was involved with the homeless ministry, the women's club,

and he was in the choir and the men's club.

And you never would have thought this would be our family that we were going to experience all of this.

We actually

lived in this Cape Cod-style home with a white picket fence, and our three kids, and everything looked really perfect.

We really, really had a white picket fence

and beautiful children.

And when he did all this, I just couldn't

believe he would do that to our kids.

I would just be thinking

on my way to work or to drop them off at school or my away from dropping them off at school.

How could he do this?

How could he just

throw it all away?

Yeah, treat us like trash, basically.

Throw it away is the right way to phrase it.

I just would picture him setting out trash bags and those symbolized us, that he was just putting us like trash on the curb, leaving us broke and homeless.

And I had a beat up van.

that's all I had and it was I could barely keep it running and

that's just not taking care of your family and it's very cowardly and selfish to do just because you want to do something that supposedly will make you happy and you see it so much more clearly with drug addicts I think of Hunter Biden who

Good enough looking guy, was in the military, didn't work out that well for him, you know, comes from a politically very important family, graduate of Yale Law School.

This guy could have anything he wants in the world.

And what does he want most?

What is he willing to give up his whole life for just to pursue?

Crack and hookers and filming himself doing it.

And you look at it and you think, man, if people weren't getting hurt in all of this, it would be really funny.

It's a funny thing to think that somebody could have everything and a good life and then give it all up for crack and hookers.

It's so dark you would either laugh or cry and you would apply it to your situation.

You've got the white picket fence.

You got the whole family and you say, okay, you can have all of that or fishnets.

You say, oh, fishnets every time.

Yeah, it is, it's absurd and it's an atrocity.

for the family, our family, and other families like ours that this is being prioritized over the well-being of children, over the commitment of marriage.

And churches are okay with it.

And corporations are celebrating.

I mean, Cracker Barrel this week with their pride statement.

I can no longer eat there.

And I just...

Cracker Barrel.

It's Cracker Barrel.

I mean, I don't want to go to any business and spend my money someplace where they're celebrating the destruction of my family.

Yeah.

Where they're celebrating what actually hurt my kids.

And probably was one of the most painful experiences of my adult life.

And probably may remain that way for the rest of my life.

Almost certainly it will.

The queen of all vice, not even just the weird sex stuff, but just pride.

I mean, pride is the deadliest of the seven deadly sins, goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

The fact that this has been embraced is scandalous.

And so, yeah, of course.

I can't drink the Bud Light.

I can't go to Target.

I guess now I can't go to Cracker Barrel either.

Isn't that ridiculous?

But on this point of religion, and you guys meet in church and

you're quite religious,

I guess that's the part that's so hard to understand.

The Christian view of this is certain things are true and certain things are false.

And man has a nature.

And we could go on for hours about body and soul interact with one another and man is a composite being.

And there's many millennia philosophy on this and theology.

And so we say, okay,

I can say with reasonable certainty, you, Tracy, are a woman.

We can know that, and that means that you have certain rights, it means you have certain obligations.

And when you're a mother, you have obligations to your children, when you're a wife, you have obligations to your husband, and vice versa.

Maybe you don't like that, maybe you're Chris, maybe you don't like Christianity, or you don't believe it, but okay, but at least that's a vision, okay, and it's a vision grounded in truth and reality.

And some things are true, and some things are false.

And if you think some things that are not true, we're going to try to correct your misperception.

All right.

What is the alternative pride vision of all of that beyond do whatever the hell you want no matter who it hurts?

I mean,

the whole thing boils down to

do as thou wilt, right?

And that's really not a good

motto for living our lives.

First and only commandment of the Church of Satan, I believe.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, so

unfortunately, things have shifted so much in our society.

We don't protect what was good.

And we don't have a shared morality anymore.

So people look at you and me and say, well, you just want to have a theocracy.

We never.

Who doesn't?

Yeah.

I mean, at this point, at this point, wouldn't it?

But they do too.

They just want it

without the real theo.

Well, we didn't start with a theocracy, and now maybe we're seeing the

problem with that rebellion

against the the original church maybe we're now seeing the problem with that but we're definitely seeing that when we had a shared morality even without having theocracy in the United States it was a good experiment because we had a shared morality now that we don't it's all coming apart and I think that's why there's this feverish adaptation you know this feverish adoption of this transgender movement because it has the ability to destroy everything because if you can't have truth in court if you can't have truth in law,

then you can't have justice.

I mean, I think of the example of this girl

in Louisiana.

I can't think of her name.

Something Grace, but it was a famous case.

I think there's a documentary about her now.

And she

was adopted from the Ukraine, and she ends up,

she has dwarfism.

They take her home, give her her first bath, and the parents discover that she

has like signs of puberty, such as developing pubic hair.

So they think that she must be older.

They then abuse her to try to get it out of her that she is 22 years old.

They end up abandoning her in an apartment.

And so when it comes time to charge these parents,

they had a doctor tell them that she was a child based on bone scans.

So there was science proving the age.

But when it came time to charge,

the girl was not allowed in court to say that she, her true age.

She couldn't refer to herself as being a minor at that time.

And she even had a lie about what her birthday was.

Her birthday, the court made her say it is what was on the change, the re-age birth certificate.

So right now, in...

every state in the United States and including Texas, you can get your identification, your vital records, everything changed to the gender identity that you're taking on.

So the sex marker gets changed.

So my ex changed his.

And anybody, people are changing their kids' markers.

We don't have a law stopping that.

We didn't actually have a law allowing it.

It's being done through the courts.

We should be codifying into law: what is a man, what is a woman, and sex.

And sex does not mean gender identity.

That's the only way

to

live, coexist with this, and maintain your rights because it's our rights against their rights and only the powerful win.

And when you're in court and they change the birth certificate,

you then

have to use the fake pronouns.

You're legally obliged, obligated.

You could be held in contempt of court for not using the right.

That's what they tried to do to me.

There will be judges that go along with that now.

Well, don't they have to now?

There's a story my priest used to tell of, I don't think it's apocryphal, I think it was a real story.

Second World War, Nazi Germany, there's an opera singer who's doing a show, and she finds out there's some muckety mucks from the party and the audience, and she doesn't like them very much, and she says, I'm not going to perform.

And one of their representatives goes back and says, You'll perform.

She says, I'm not going to do that.

And they say,

Do you know that we can make you sing?

And her response is,

you can make me scream, but you can't make me sing.

I think you're sitting in court.

I guess they can make you scream.

I guess

they can't make you violate your reason.

They can create a lot of temptations to do it.

And they can make it really, really hard for you, and they can punish you.

But what they want to do is they want to be able to make you sing.

Two plus two does equal five.

And not only will you say it, you'll damn well believe it.

Yeah.

And if you don't, you're a bigot and you shouldn't be allowed to engage in society anymore.

You shouldn't be able to have your YouTube channel.

You shouldn't be able to just be part of polite society because

you misgender.

I get this all the time.

You misgendered your ex-husband.

He's a soldier of my kids.

And I'm accused of misgendering.

It's like, I am, you know, my experience is valid.

And that's what I tell the liberals.

Is my experience not valid?

Because that's what we hear about them.

Their experience is valid.

We need to hear them.

But what about the trans widows?

What about their children?

Are our experiences not valid?

They are.

If we have to hear everyone's story, the American Library Association, the infamous groomers of the United States,

everybody's story matters and everybody's story wants to be told.

When I write my book,

will it be shelved in the American libraries?

Will the American Library Association advocate as hard for

my story as it does all these transgender stories?

Your book certainly will be banned from schools.

There's no question about it.

No doubt about it.

Because we were joking earlier about theocracy just now.

But I kind of mean it.

Everybody's got a theocracy.

I guess technically theocracy is government ordered toward God.

government by God.

So

the Libs obviously don't want that.

But they

they just want the opposite of religion and theocracy.

They want it ordered toward their false God.

I mean they want a they don't want a God-ordered society.

They want a devil-ordered society or something like that.

And so they'll enforce that with the same degree of coercion.

In fact, they'll enforce that with far greater coercion than any theocracy in history because theocracies are restrained by morality, including the rulers.

Godless societies, the worst tyrannies in history, they haven't been theocracies.

They've been dictatorships, communist dictatorships,

where people answer to no one but themselves.

And they're doing it now.

And you're seeing it even from our nominally Catholic president.

You know,

they told me if we elected a Catholic president, we'd replace the American flag with the flag of a religion.

And guess what?

That's exactly what we did.

The White House not only flies the pride flag, and not just the pride flag, the kind of militant terrorist pride flag with the BLM and the whatever.

But the president violates flag code to put the pride progress flag center,

flanked by the Star-Spangled Banners.

And he says, tweets out the picture and he says, let everyone hear this.

America is a nation of pride.

Yeah.

Might be the first true thing Joe Biden's ever said.

Yeah,

it probably is the first true thing he's said in a long time.

And it's not lost on me that that flag is

a flag of the New World Order.

You could see at Rockefeller Plaza, just a sea of these flags.

And I thought, you know,

what the liberals, really more the squishes, the kind of don't ever use the government, just leave everyone alone, hands-off kind of people, what they'll say is, well, look, conservatives, if you insist upon your vision of the good in society, why the liberals might do the same to us with their vision.

I think, oh gosh, can you imagine?

Wow, what would that look like?

I have to worry about a hypothetical future when I'm dealing with the reality practically right now.

So given how public all of this is now,

have you received threats?

Have you received, you've obviously received some praise, at least for me and

like-minded people, but you're a public figure now.

Sometimes, not too much.

I'm a person of faith and I really believe that God has provided his protection over me and my family during all of this, sharing this story as much as I have.

And while sometimes I do get some hateful messages, usually the haters, they like to send me very offensive things, you know, like pornographic images, things like that.

Yeah, I've seen that pop up, even just on social media.

People,

it's just weird how all of these things overlap.

The people who are pushing these radical leftist views, they're always posting pornographic content.

They often post

devil imagery.

They often, I mean, overt, satanic, demonic kind of images.

You mentioned you're a person of faith.

I assume you've seen that.

Oh, yes.

I've saw that a lot.

I don't know if you know this, but back in 2019, I exposed the sex offenders and the drag queen story hour program in Houston Texas that was you yes I remember the story that made international news

it did yeah

great thanks for covering that and um one of the things that I saw in a lot of their social media was witchcraft and devil worship and I saw that as well in looking into the like BLM movement and the Antifa as well.

And that there's a lot of overlapping.

God forbid you post anything on social media against furries, you will get sent a whole lot of porn.

Really?

Yes.

I haven't delved too far into the whole furry thing.

Maybe we'll do a long sit-down with a furry or something at some point, but

I don't even really...

That's one.

Putting on fishnets is not my thing.

But

I guess I could intellectually see how someone could make that a sexual thing.

The furry stuff, that I can't really get.

And what is odd is that you have these common threads of, well, it's always very pornographic, and it's very corrosive and destructive to real social relationships and to family.

And

it's just demonic, I think, right?

I mean, or at least the symbolism is always demonic.

And that's why a lot of these guys, I think, will say, oh, I don't really believe in the devil, or I don't believe in God, or I don't believe in religion, or I don't believe in any of that.

I just use all of these really specific symbols

ironically or something.

I don't seem to

care if you believe in him?

I don't think so.

So as a person of faith, I do believe that there's a demonic influence.

I mean I guess some people think that's crazy.

They can think that, but

I think it's real that there is a demonic influence over all of this.

And you don't know why someone would dress as a furry,

but from what I've seen, I think it's the perfect opportunity, just like being in drag, the drag queens, it's a perfect opportunity for them to hide their real identity from the children they're encountering.

When you uncovered that story,

when I see these stories, I'm not surprised.

Some people are surprised, but I always think, you know, it's always the ones you most expect.

At least most of the time, not all the time, but a lot of the time.

It's the ones you most expect.

And yet, even after that exposure of convicted child molesters being part of the Drag Queen Story Hour, those programs still exist all over the country.

Right, because it's being pushed out there under the guise of diversity and inclusion when we all know that what they really want is the opposite of that.

They want to exclude people of faith and they don't want exclude the truth.

Yeah, they don't want diversity.

Do they want

our point of view in a story time?

I mean, I thought about having a story time with the the Walrus book.

That's

Johnny the Walrus.

Yeah, I thought that would be a good story time.

I think I'll give it a go there in Houston, Texas and see and see how the librarians, you know, if they if they if we put it up on the flagpole, if they're going to salute it.

Yeah.

yeah.

If they'll fight as hard for the Walrus story as they do Julian is a Mermaid.

Yeah, Maya Kobabby, Gender Queer, any of those sorts of books.

Right.

So speaking of exclusion and limits and all of this, there's just one thread I want to close up here.

Despite your husband's

degenerate behavior, you fight for the marriage for

11 years, you said, after this all comes out.

What

happens where you finally say, okay, it's over?

I mean,

basically,

it was him.

I kept giving him more opportunities

to do the right thing.

And I always would go to him for the answers.

In fact, I did go to a Christian therapist that told me I had to stop doing that.

I had to start believing my eyes, you know, what I saw, and quit asking him to give me an explanation or to lie to me about it.

And I had told him if he continued this, we would get a divorce.

And when I found out that it was as bad as it really was,

and that, you know, he had this person he was talking to online, that their messages together were really disgusting.

You know, I want to do this to you like a girl.

I want you to do this to me like a girl.

Notice they didn't say woman.

And

just the things they were talking about, even talking about having me killed.

And my ex's response to this person, a stranger to me, talking about knocking me off to get me out of the way, the mother of his children, his response was laughing.

So how did I end up leaving?

It was learning about all that.

learning about this other person that had he had found to validate what he was doing, who enjoyed that, who wanted to help him transition

and

finding hormones hidden in my house even after he said he had stopped and we were going again to another counselor this time a Christian counselor and he sat there and said in front of the counselor that

this is who I am

so at that point I just there was nothing to fight for yet As I told you earlier, he would tell the children that it was my fault he transitioned because I didn't give him enough chances that's just not true just one more just one more I'm sure that would have done it right after finding the hormones finding about the other woman who was on board with all the fetishy stuff and murdering you and murdering me yeah

and

finding about you know

years of lies

at the end of our marriage he told me that uh some images I found on our computer when we were early in our marriage, before we even had children, I thought those were just ugly women in tacky lingerie that I found backed up in our like

on our computer.

And

it turns out those were men.

No wonder they were ugly and had tacky lingerie.

At the time I thought, why are you looking at these women when you know I'm young and attractive and I had better taste in lingerie?

And

it turns out those were men.

So just finding about all the deception, I believed him one more time.

He got me to move from Ohio to Houston because in Ohio they have spousal support for life until you remarry.

And he wanted to divorce me in Texas so that he wouldn't have to pay spousal support.

So he told me he was going to be the man that God ordained him to be.

And once again, even despite the therapist telling me I should not believe him anymore, That therapist even saw him and that therapist was experienced with dealing with abusive men and knew, you know, recognized what was happening.

I was being gaslighted.

And I believed him.

So we got divorced in Texas.

It was financially worse for me, but I was at least close to my family who could help and support me.

And it opened my eyes a lot.

And I think this story happening in Texas is a, you know,

should serve as a warning.

A lot of people think this is a very conservative state and that these things just don't happen there and can't happen.

And if you do, the state will have your back.

But this was in 19, you know, the beginning, you know, this goes far back before Bruce became Caitlin.

And

the state didn't have my back.

The state absolutely was involved in the destruction of my family, and they still are involved in this destruction of families and harm to children, because that's what this ultimately does.

When you destroy the family, which is a safe place, we talk about safe places.

The safe place for children is in the natural family, where

that's a child's right.

And so to have their mother and father

that love them and to care for them.

And

Texas does not have your back.

So if people need it, I remember I thought, oh, this organization that I work with as an activist, mass resistance.

I thought years ago, oh, I'm so glad we're never going to need that here in Texas.

Little did I know.

Little did I know.

So let it serve as a warning.

But ultimately, it came down to him.

That's how it came to an end.

I saw how bad it really was.

And it was so bad that I mentioned that a lot of the women go through

being abused in different ways, financially, sexually.

physically.

My children were seeing me be beat up by my husband because he was defending this,

you know, himself and all of this.

I was in the way.

And if I was...

You're saying they figuratively saw you beaten up.

Oh, no, they saw me physically beat up.

So because I wanted to see his phone, you know, I wanted to see if he was lying to me.

And

one time I wanted to just go

upstairs and get something.

And he didn't want me to leave the house.

So he blocked the stairs and pushed me down the stairs.

Now I had forgotten about times that he had hurt me because

I was used to putting things out of my mind and sticking to the storyline, white-figured fence, beautiful family, and we're not those people.

But

we became an episode of Jerry Springer.

Yeah, that's what we became.

And I had forgotten about being pushed down the stairs, but my kids, they didn't forget.

They don't forget their mother being physically abused.

And I don't forget the emotional stuff.

And to me,

the stuff that he tried to get me to do in the bedroom, that sexual abuse, trying to coerce me into

being, acting like we're lesbians, him dressing up as a woman, and we're going to do these things like girls.

And

I didn't go along with that, but that's coercion.

And,

you know, insisting on being the submissive and in the bedroom.

That's the kind of thing that that fetishy behavior does to a marriage.

And I know I'm kind of painting this picture that people don't really want to think about.

It's a pretty ugly picture.

But what I'm explaining, and much worse, happens to women who are married to these narcissistic men that society now celebrates and protects.

Now that's not the cover of Vanity Fair.

That's a darker reality.

It

makes me think of people now who really want to compartmentalize society.

They say, oh, what I do in my private life, that doesn't affect my public life.

What I do on my computer doesn't affect my real practical life.

As though we're different people, as though we can be.

A guy could have the white picket fence, the nice family, he can look like an upstanding family guy.

And if he's spending his nights looking at weird stuff on the computer, putting on weird clothing,

saying, oh,

what does it matter to you what I do in my bedroom?

That's just in the privacy of my bedroom.

Well, the more you indulge in that perverse behavior, the more perverted you're going to become.

That's how habits work.

It's how vice works, and it's how virtue works.

And

it is going to bleed out.

And pretty soon that white picket fence is not going to look so white anymore.

Pretty soon that family is not going to stay together anymore.

Even think about the role of the state here, the fact that in Texas, don't mess with Texas, come on, come and get them.

This is good red Texas.

That

Texas would indulge in all of this.

Well, of course, because just as in our personal lives, so too in public life, you're either going to be pursuing good

or bad.

You're either going to exalt the truth or you're going to disregard the truth and you're going to live in lies.

And

we're often fighting these things, and we have temptations to go toward the bad stuff and not to practice the virtues.

If you move toward the good and true and the beautiful and God and you practice virtues, you can keep that white picket fence, even though the storms are going to come, it's going to get a little gray, you got to repaint that fence every now and again.

But if you don't and you just allow your worst appetites to run away with you, that fence is going to disappear.

Even Texas.

Even Texas is going to disappear.

And a lot faster than many people think.

It's already not what people think it is.

But

as for your example of public life versus private life and can you keep them separate?

I'll just share the example of a librarian in Texas that I discovered when I was investigating drag queen story hours.

One particular perverted drag queen came on my radar and his name was Kitty Litter.

This guy acts like I have just totally harassed him by sharing what he had on his social media with the city council and the mayor and the public.

Because this guy and the guy was a pro had a record for prostitution, and he was allowed to go to, he was invited by the librarian and allowed to go and read to the children and entertain them and talk to them about gender identity and sexual orientation, along with another member of the American Library Association, LGBTQ roundtable.

And that librarian, as it turns out, at night

was a BDSM leather daddy.

He and his partner of 20 years they had been married to.

They operate the spanking booth at the local leather and gear club in Austin.

A coveted position.

A very prestigious role

at the Leather Daddy Club.

Right, with his spouse that he does that with.

And

this guy is an elementary librarian.

And the worst part is he was wearing this medallion that was a representative of a leather club.

He wears that even at work.

And even worse than that,

he's got a tattoo on his arm of a ruler.

You can only imagine what that measures.

A perverse homosexual act, which the picture I discovered of him at the Leather Man Men of Leather Convention in Chicago that he was at on MOL.

Men of Leather.

I mean,

don't ever search their hashtag because it's disgusting.

I found pictures of him giving a symbol

for that sexual act.

And I have that on my website, madmamabear.com.

I expose that.

The guy still works at the elementary school in Austin.

In fact, he now decides which children will be part of their gifted and talented program and interviews people to be accepted into that.

It's a special school.

Well, because I assume he's a protected class now you think of people of color and now men of leather I didn't know never known if that should be a protected class I guess and and I did a FOIA request for their

their email and text exchanges and the librarian was communicating with the drag queen about me They're talking about how upset I was going to be when I discovered that the drag queen, prostitute, who I had already exposed as being involved in the drag queen story hour in Austin Libraries was going to be entertaining kids at the public school.

And he also coached him on how to get around the background check

at the school.

Pretty soon there won't be a background check.

Well, I mean, there wasn't a background check in the case with the Drag Queen Story Hour in Houston Public Libraries.

They were supposed to do them, but that would have been a microaggression, don't you know, to actually do background checks for drag queens and transsexuals who want to spend time with people's kids.

I'm very even, Keel.

It's probably the reason that I don't have more views on my show is that I don't become visibly angry very often.

It takes a lot.

Your story fills me with such a deep,

abiding anger

at just the

at every single level, constant injustice of it all and the worsening injustice of it all.

I might have my once a year outburst of just yelling or something.

It's so,

it's just so evil what they've done and what they've done to the country and what they've done to families and what they're doing to children, what they're doing to women and what they're doing.

And they're doing it to the applause of very, very bad, rotten people who are being encouraged on a path of delusion and perversity and degeneracy.

And

the fact that it happened in Texas, I can't get past it.

And I just think,

if

is it just you?

You're the only person who we're all counting on to know.

Is no one else going to stand up?

Is no one else going to?

We need more people to stand up for the right things.

You know, Texas just passed a law to protect women's sports.

Yay.

But we haven't protected the bathrooms.

But those are just

extra, you know, topics.

The main thing

is what is a woman?

What is a man?

What does sex mean?

What is a family?

And are we ordering society and law in such a way to protect the family, which is the ultimate safe place for children?

And we're not doing that.

Texas had the opportunity this year to advance legislation.

There were bills written that would define what a man and a woman is in law.

We need to do that now, as crazy as that seems, because we did it before, because we used to have common sense, and we didn't have this new

religion that's being foisted on all of us.

But we had the chance, and we didn't do it.

Just like in 2021, we didn't protect the children.

We still haven't accomplished protecting...

families or parents or parental rights when they go up against this issue in court.

We can still be medically kidnapped and taken to another state because all institutions are not on our side.

We may have stopped some doctors from doing it right in Texas, but we haven't stopped them from what I found because I messaged a doctor acting like I was a 17-year-old saying that I wanted to get the hormones and stuff.

Well, you can get them just $500 is all I need and I'll have them to you in 30 days after one appointment.

And you can still do that in Texas.

And I'm so glad to hear you say it's not just about the girls' sports.

I hope girls have a nice time playing their sports.

I hope they get scholarships.

No one cares about girls' sports.

Three people watch the WNBA.

It's not about that.

It's about the justice of it.

And

it's about a fundamental political issue because the family is the basic unit of politics.

The individual is not actually the basic unit of politics.

It's the family.

That's the structure, right?

Politics means public.

And so, as goes the family, so goes the country.

As goes the country, so goes the family.

You can't neatly divorce these two things because one is a microcosm of the other, and both are in turmoil, and you've experienced it in a much more personal way than most people have.

But many more people are going to experience it in that personal way

if we don't stand up to defend them both.

Tracy, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you.

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