Anna Wintour Embraces a New Era at Vogue

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This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour.

I'm David Remnick.

When it was announced in June, that Anna Wintour would step back from her role as editor-in-chief of Vogue, the flagship U.S.

Edition.

It wasn't one of those items that's old news in a day.

Speculation, analysis, and commentary circulated all summer.

But now Winter has named her successor, Chloe Mao, who's worked at the magazine since 2011.

Now I'm hardly an objective observer here.

Anna and I have been colleagues and friends for a very long time.

Even as Chloe Mao takes over at Vogue, Anna will remain in very senior roles.

She's the editorial director of all the Vogue editions throughout the world, and she's the chief content officer of Condi Nass, which publishes The New Yorker as well.

But what's unique about this particular change of the guard is that Wintor is synonymous with Vogue itself.

Many people these days can't name the editor of a major newspaper any more than they can name the king of Belgium, but when the camera pans to Anno Wintour in the stands at the U.S.

Open or Wimbledon, you know who that is.

No Chiron necessary.

Wintour was appointed creative director of Vogue in 1983, then editor-in-chief in 1988, and whole generations of designers have come up under her famously decisive judgments.

She organizes the annual Met Gala, which she grew from a charity dinner into a global phenomenon.

We met North Studios at One World Trade Center.

Here I am, a lamb, a lamb to the slaughter.

That's exactly what's going to happen.

How are you?

Okay, get up.

So Anna, we are talking on the day that Connie Nass announced that Chloe Mao is going to succeed you as editor of American Evoke.

How do you feel?

I feel great.

I love Chloe.

I'm very happy for her.

She's going to do a brilliant job.

We've worked together for well over a decade.

But at the same time, she really had to prove herself during the interview process.

We we saw a lot of amazing, amazing candidates.

And Chloe consistently came back with the clearest vision and the most original ideas and understanding of what a vogue in,

well, I don't think we can talk in five, ten years anymore, in two years it's going to look like.

And I

it was specifics.

She understands a newsroom.

She understands immediacy.

She understands culture.

She understands completely that fashion doesn't exist in a vacuum, that it's a result of many different forces, whether it's something that might be happening in music or film or politically, and wants to put it into that kind of a context.

Plus, she, you know, she has a great sense of humor.

I mean, her story that she thought of this summer called Dog, I mean, it went through the roof with our numbers, and it was so much fun just to look at all those crazy dogs dressed up with earrings and beautiful collars.

And celebrities from all over the world were sending their dogs.

So, you know,

she has a really good balance about what works.

Now,

why step aside from American Vogue now?

Have you been thinking about this for a long time?

I have been thinking about it for some time, and it felt

like this was the right time because we're seeing so much change in fashion.

When we go off to the shows,

well, actually, I think they start next week.

I believe there's well over 14 new creative directors in very high-level positions all over Europe, and some here.

So it seemed like

a good moment to bring in someone with a different perspective and a different generation who could look at things in a new way.

Now, at first in 1988,

you burst on the scene as the new Vogue editor by putting somebody on the cover

with a pair of jeans on.

In fact, I noticed that Chloe was wearing jeans.

Indeed, she was.

In her photograph on the Vogue website.

Was she maybe signaling something?

I think that picture was taken a while ago, but she looked great.

And similarly to Chloe, I had been working at Vogue as creative director before I took the position at American Vogue and also at British Vogue.

So I also had some history.

And

I think that's a very helpful way to start a new job, to understand how things work, who the people are, how decisions are made.

And maybe you want to to do things in a different way, but just having that is a huge advantage.

So you have this odd situation now.

You are not leaving your office, your physical office.

You've got two huge jobs at Kanye Nass where you're the editorial director of, well, of everything.

And

you've got a lot going on, whether it's the Met Gala or your other interests and family and all this, but you're still, you're right there, and your successor is down the hall.

And Chloe said this to the Times today.

The truth is that no one's going to replace Anna.

And so you're going to be right down the hall.

And the Times wrote that both women have acknowledged the strangeness of this arrangement.

How will this work?

Well, I think I implicitly trust Chloe, and I

want her to succeed to the best possible

degree.

I think that she is beloved by her team.

I think that she

will require from all of us,

not just me, from everybody and from our editor's group, from everybody here at Coninas.

I think she'll, and she's the kind of editor that welcomes that.

She doesn't work in any way in isolation.

She's very open.

She's very communicative.

Her office is always full of people.

She's very

outgoing.

But will you be in her head, is what I mean.

In other words, will she be trying to edit?

I absolutely don't think so.

I think she's very much her own person.

She has her own point of view.

How does it differ?

She's, I think,

she looks at things with a more,

what's the right word?

Not eccentric, quirky, unusual

point of view.

She comes at things from different angles.

She's

interested in fashion, but not obsessed with it, so that there are many levels that will

weigh into her decisions.

I think that she will not be drawn into, I don't like this word, but a fashionista conversation.

I think that she will be able to step back and look at things in a very healthy context.

Has the fashionista conversation dissipated and disappeared in the contemporary world?

I think it exists very much in certain circles.

And I think that what I love about Chloe is that she's an insider, but she's also an outsider.

And what you're saying is she doesn't want to be an anna, mini, me.

No, not at all.

And that was very clear during the interview process and all the conversations that we've had.

She wants to be her own person.

I think she's not interested in those kinds of comparisons.

She just wants to be herself and show herself and prove herself and make news, as I'm sure she will.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So when you took over Vogue, Vogue had this immensely central place in this very big business and

in the fashion discussion.

And now we live in an age of Instagram, TikTok,

the technological democratization of fashion itself, and God knows what role AI is going to play.

So how is her job different from yours?

Well, I look on Vogue as being

the world's biggest fashion influencer.

If you look at our reach from a social perspective, American Vogue alone has well over 50 million followers.

If you look at the numbers that we receive on our site or on our app, or

the way

whatever we may be putting across any of our platforms are received or seen or heard, that the influence is immeasurable.

So I think, in a way, Chloe has a much bigger platform than I had.

When I came in, I always remember Alex Lieberman telling me that.

Editorial director in those days.

Editorial director, wonderful figure, my mentor and my boss for many years.

He used to tell me that they would go to Jones Beach in the afternoons because there wasn't that much to do.

Can you imagine that, David?

I really cannot.

So I don't think that Chloe will be spending any of her time at Jones Beach in the afternoon, but I actually think

if I remember when I started at American Vogue and it was solely a print publication with a few events and genteel sort of parties that we had to go to.

Now she has all these different ways of talking to our audiences, whether it's through social or TikTok, TikTok or print or events, which are a huge part of

what we think about today, or

any of the many, many ways that we reach our audiences.

How amazing, how exciting, how interesting, how culturally relevant is it?

And it's so...

fascinating to see how much Vogue means to our world.

I mean, I was flooded with emails this morning.

It does mean a lot to people within the fashion world and without.

And

it's a great honor and it's a great responsibility.

You mentioned Print.

When I started in 1998 at the New Yorker, I thought I was about to lose my job within a month.

Sy Newhouse, who of course owns the joint and ran Condianast completely and thoroughly in those days, asked to have lunch with me at his apartment.

Usually we went to some restaurant.

Yes.

And I thought, well, this is a world record.

You've really done it.

And he took out.

Was it a yellow pad?

He took out a yellow pad, and we were losing money at that point.

I won't say how much,

but it was not insubstantial.

And he said, you know, if we went from weekly to bi-weekly, we would save millions and millions of dollars, and we would suddenly become profitable.

And then he said something that I'll never forget.

He said, but it's your decision.

It was the editor's decision to make this very consequential.

And

I decided pretty quickly that that would signal, in fact, something terrible.

Not only it would be terrible for the New Yorker, it would be terrible for business, is that it would signal the life magazinization

of the New Yorker.

We live in a very different time now.

The internet was not in play then.

What does print mean going forward for Vogue?

Chloe, in fact, mentioned that she wants to have fewer print editions.

Why?

Well, I think we all look at print as something that is collectible

and something you might want to archive and hold on to.

And I think it also has to represent a newsbreaking moment.

Like you need a reason to put somebody on the cover for any of the stories that you might be running inside.

And I think that's what Chloe was talking about, that it has to feel in a way more important, more substantial, and separate from the day-to-day news-breaking stories that we put up on your site or our site.

But it's not purely a decision about decline of print advertising, or it's not a purely business decision.

I think it's

the right decision, and I think there's a lot of different factors that play into it.

And obviously, it's something that we all need to sit down and talk about and figure out what the right path is going forward.

But I think it comes from the idea that print has to feel more substantial, more important.

I mean, it's our runway show.

If you think about how many people actually go to a Vuitton fashion show,

it's between four and eight hundred people.

But then it goes out to millions and millions.

And I think

instantly on live stream, whatever it may be.

And I think print has that same responsibility.

You're giving a message, you're making news, you're giving your vision.

but it doesn't necessarily have to be over and over again many, many times a year.

I mean, I think most of the big designers probably have six or seven shows a year.

You're a political person.

Which is already a lot.

You're a very politically engaged person and a very politically aware person, and it's no news to you that the world right now is in so many ways in really bad condition.

How do you make a case that fashion is important in the midst of all that?

Well, I think fashion is always important.

It's a question of self-expression and a statement about yourself, and whether it's a loud logo you might choose to put on yourself or something with a color.

So I think fashion can say so many different things.

And forgive me, David, but how boring would it be if everybody was just wearing a dark suit and a white shirt all the time?

I think people are individuals and they ought to have be able to express themselves.

And it's a form of creativity.

And that's why we need fashion and we need great designers.

For decades, you've been known as the editor with exacting control over every spread, every

I don't buy that.

You don't say yes or no on everything that's in vogue?

Up to a point.

I mean, you know, I oversee so many different vogues now that it's impossible to have that kind of detail.

I think it's really

important to surround yourself with people whom you admire and that you respect.

I really rely on the editors that we have there to, I can say, I don't think this looks so great, but they can come right back and say,

this is what will work in this culture.

So what I mean is, how deeply do you get into other Vogues, other magazines, either here in the United States or around the world?

Yeah, I mean,

how granular.

In terms of Vogue, I look at every

print issue before it goes to what's hypothetical called a

press.

And I will look at their sites.

I can't understand all the languages.

I look at all their social media, but it's, and I will make suggestions and call and say, are we sure about this or why aren't we doing that?

But there's no way that you can keep up with every single platform across all the territories.

But I certainly

keep my eyes out.

Did you ever feel like along the way, did you have a time or a year or a moment you think, enough with this.

I can do a lot of things.

I just enough.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: Actually, no, David, because I love what I do.

And I grew up, as you know, in a family of journalists where we were always being dragged home from vacation holidays, as we would say in the UK, because some news was happening.

And in those days, you couldn't do email or Zooms.

You had to be there.

And my dad was someone who always had to be there.

He had to be in the newsroom.

And that was actually exciting in a way.

And our house was full of journalists and politicians and interesting people.

And

I find that

today just as exciting and just as interesting.

And I'm always more interested in looking forward than looking back.

I do think sometimes we spend too much time on nostalgia.

How do you mean?

I think people always ask,

what was that based on, or what was your inspiration?

And sure, people have inspirations and they have unconscious thoughts in their heads, but true creative design.

I'm talking about the fashion world, true creative designers, and I'm sure it's the same with your world.

It's original, it comes from their mind, not from somebody else's mind.

Maybe they had some influences, but the idea is theirs.

And when I work with Andrew Bolton, who's the chief curator at the Metropolitan Museum,

we work very closely together every

year on the

exhibitions, and it's so fascinating and exciting and interesting to see how his mind works and how the ideas form.

And yes, he reads a lot, he looks at a lot, but in the end, the original thinking is entirely Andrew's.

So to me, that's a great artist.

I wonder how you felt when Alexandria Casio-Cortez arrived at the Met Ball

in

a white dress, slathered with the slogan, tax the rich.

Yes, well, I'll tell you a story about that, David.

She was actually sitting at my table, and I stand in the receiving line, and I don't see the people arriving on the carpet.

I don't have a secret live stream coming, being zoomed into my earphone.

I'm just standing there, shaking everybody's hands and saying, Thank you for coming, blah, blah, blah.

So I said, You know, thank you for coming.

And she went by.

And then I went up to her before we all sat down at the table.

I said, I just love your dress, because I'd only seen her from the front.

And it wasn't until the next day that I understood

what had happened.

So fortunately, I had a wonderful evening.

And when you saw it later, how did you feel?

Well, you know, that's something going back to what we were talking about before.

I think everybody uses fashion in different ways.

And obviously, that was something that was important to her.

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, and I'm speaking today with Anna Wintour.

We'll continue in just a moment.

This episode is brought to you by Old Fitzgerald.

Ah, hello.

Thanks for tuning in.

May I pour you a glass of Old Fitzgerald bottled and bond seven-year-old bourbon?

It hits all the right notes, from a whisper of wheat and lingering brown sugar to subtle oak.

We call it your key to hospitality because the best things in life are better when shared.

The pleasure is ours.

Old Fitzgerald, Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, Bardstown, Kentucky.

50% alcohol by volume.

Think wisely, drink wisely.

America is changing, and so is the world.

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval.

It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

I'm Asmakhalid in Washington, D.C.

I'm Tristan Redman in London.

And this is the global story.

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet.

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

I'm David Remnick, and I've been speaking today with Anna Wintour, who's stepping back from editing the U.S.

edition of Vogue after nearly 40 years.

Chloe Mal will be the new head of editorial content there.

Years ago when I was new at the job of editing a magazine, I asked one of Anna Wintor's deputies why she commanded such respect.

The answer was this, it's because she knows what she wants.

Over time, I learned what that meant.

It wasn't that she knew everything or knew better than everybody, but she had a clear sense of what she wanted her publication to be about.

And she had a determination, particularly now when the media business is unpredictable, to put it mildly, how to figure out the future, to make things work, to make mistakes, and yet try again.

Wintor comes from a distinguished journalism family.

Her brother is an editor and reporter, and her father was editor of a London newspaper.

He helped steer Anna into a career in fashion, and she began working as a teenager.

Your father was at the London Evening Standard.

Yes.

Your brother is, is he back from

the Journal of Is that The Guardian?

Yeah.

Journalism is in your blood, and you found your place in it, God knows.

The most interesting part of any biography for me is not the later big triumphs, as interesting as they can be, but how somebody becomes themselves, in a sense, how they invent themselves.

When you think about that, how you became

the anuentor that at least the public knows and understands, where do you think that all came from?

I think I was so lucky, as we were discussing before, in my upbringing and meeting all these people and knowing that I wanted to work in journalism, in media, but being very aware of

my father's success in Fleet Street, as it was then called, in Fleet Street, and not wanting to

be part of his world and trying to make my own mark and

filling filling out all those stupid school forms that you have to do and ask my dad, well, what shall I fill in when you write what you want to be?

This is a true story.

He said, well, you just write, you want to be editor of Vogue.

And so, yes.

Age what?

I don't know, 13.

So I wrote that in, and then I felt confident.

And yes, this was something that I could work towards.

And the other thing,

working my first jobs working in London, like there's no money, there's no staff, there's no teams.

You have to learn how to do everything.

What was the job?

My first job, I worked at Harper's Queen,

and I was in the fashion department.

And you had to cover the market, go on shoots, write the captions, lay it out, go to events, go to the shows.

It was just, you know, the original sort of multitasker.

And I think...

You have to know how to operate a needle and thread.

No, I was never any good at that.

Never any good for that.

Yes, awful.

But so when I came to the States and there was a shoe editor and an underwear editor and a fabric editor, it was also siloed.

I felt very confident because I sort of knew how to do everything.

And that was the best training.

But wait, you determined your final, not final destination, as it turns out.

It was helpful.

At that early age, I'm going to be the editor of Vogue, which is a little bit like saying I'm going to play shortstop for the Yankees, and that was Derek Jeter.

Well, it was a goal.

It wasn't, you know, it was a goal to

work towards and obviously there were many ups and downs along the way including getting fired from Harper's Bazaar because I was told I would never understand the American market

so tell me about the firing

it was very brief it was very brief very brief the conversation

everyone very very brief what was the start we've all done it how do you do it uh how do i i i try and be kind and uh thoughtful and

listen to what people have to say.

But I was not given that.

I was basically told to leave.

But I think everyone should be fired once.

You've probably never been fired, David.

I've had two jobs so far, so good.

But it helps you get everything into proportion.

And I picked myself up and eventually...

landed at New York Magazine where my multitasking really came into

full use use because there wasn't anyone there that understood anything that

I was doing.

And I was very lucky to work for Ed Kosner, who was a wonderful editor and gave me free rein.

And that's where I caught Alexander Lieberman, the editorial director of Condinas Eye, and then I moved over to American Vote.

I hope this is not a sexist question, but maybe we could ask it of men too.

I hope we do.

How did you develop your look and why?

Well, for my hair, it was always pretty much this way.

And then

Louise Brooks.

Some

British hairdresser decided they were going to experiment on me, and they cut it into three layers.

And it was honestly the worst haircut you've ever seen in your entire life.

So I think I wore a hat for a year.

And then after that, I resolved not to cut my hair except this way ever again.

And I mean, the glasses just, because I'm very short-sighted, but they also helped me get through

situations.

Where you're bored to death.

You said that, not me.

I did.

I think I'm going to take it up.

Another thing that you're known for, and

is your ability to do about 3,000 things in a given day.

Give me how your days typically go.

When do you get up?

What do you do?

And how is it carried out?

Well, I get up really early, 4.30, 5 o'clock, and I

read online the papers,

all the English papers and the Times.

And then I have a lovely walk through Washington Square Park where you see a very interesting slice of life and go to the gym and then I run back and then

you were a runner when you were a kid.

Yeah, I was.

I was.

Yeah, there was my grandfather was a very, very fast runner.

He ran for Harvard and I was always being encouraged to run to to go into serious training, but I just, I didn't take that path.

It was the 60s in London.

I took another path.

I took another path, many other paths.

And then, you know, I go to the office and then the day starts.

And then the day starts.

And

you've said you'd never write a book about your life.

Why is that?

Never.

I don't think I'm that interesting.

And

okay, that's where you're wrong.

Thank you, David.

But I really,

I don't, I just, it's not a story I want to tell.

Because it's too personal, it digs too deep for it.

You're bored with it.

You're bored with the past.

The past is done, and I can't rewrite it.

And of course,

there are lots of wonderful things about it, too, but it's just not something that is of any remote interest to me.

Are you going to write the story of your life, David?

I don't think so.

There you go.

I'd like to learn something new, like Chinese or something.

So there was a time that even unschooled people like me knew about or a little bit about designers of huge influence, at least knew their names or a kind of sketch of what they did, Lagerfeld, Mutia Prado, still very much around, Gagliano, Mark Jacobs, still very much around.

Suddenly, nearly all the fashion houses are led by young or younger designers whose names are not particularly well.

Well, they will be.

And many of them are.

And many of them, and not many are women either.

So, how do you assess this new scene that...

Well,

it's

one moves and then it's like a pack of cards.

Well, because one designer goes from A to B and then that leaves an opening and then somebody else is slotted in and then there's another opening.

But it is totally true that this is the first time

that I can ever remember where we had so many openings in so many high-profile houses.

But it's also incredibly

and I think it will be a very creative moment because if you talk to these designers, of course, they're very aware that they're all making their debuts in the next few weeks.

So all eyes, not just on them, but on all of them.

And I think they will all make each other better.

Who are you most keenly watching?

All of them.

I mean, I think they all bring

different points of views, some degrees of experience, some

brand new, some less known, some known.

What I think is

great about all of them is that they are very original thinkers.

and I think that they will not be defined.

They will respect, but they will not be, like Chloe, they will respect but not be defined by their past.

I think Jonathan Anderson at Dior is going to be

an increase, have an incredible show, an incredible run at Dior.

I'm very, very excited to see Mathieu Blasey at Chanel.

He was at Bottega before, and Jack and Lazaro, who are Americans, going to Lierve.

So, I mean, those are just three.

I mean, Sarah Burton, a woman at Givenchy, she worked for McQueen for so many years.

Louise Trotter at Batega.

I mean, it's just a long, long list.

And then there's the designers like Demnar, that was at Balenciaga, has now gone to Gucci.

And

Pier Paolo, who was at Valentino, has now gone to Balenciaga.

So it's, you know, it's

snakes and ladders everywhere.

My colleague Rebecca Mead recently profiled Jonathan Anderson, who's now, as you say, at Dior.

And he told Rebecca that he prefers to think of fashion houses

not as luxury bastions, but as cultural brands.

He says luxury is elitist, and he wants to keep luxury at arm's length, he told her.

How do you view luxury at this point?

Is it something that you embrace?

Is it something that

word, don't you?

Well, it's rarely at your smile thinking but go.

It doesn't mean anything.

It seems like a sort of dated

it sounds to my you're like expensive.

Yeah and it feels dated to me and something that

I think I like the idea of creativity and what does that mean and how you bring in a community in all kinds of different levels, whether it's couture or runway or a pair of sneakers, you're investing in somebody's creativity and vision.

And to me that's much more interesting than the idea of luxury.

I mean, I don't really even know what that word means.

It's so overused.

I think it's lost

its heart.

In some ways,

it might be an illusion, but the economy is riding pretty high.

And yet, a lot of

fashion houses are very anxious about the economy.

Well, there's many reasons for that.

I mean, I think, first of all, there's been so much change that I think a lot of the

normal customers are waiting because they want to wait and see what the new designers are going to bring.

They don't want to seem like they're behind or they're not in step with whatever direction a designer might be going or they were someone who liked what the old designer did and they're not sure yet about the new one.

So there are lots of different reasons.

But I also think that the industry has been very hard hit by the tariffs and all of that.

So the Trump's tariffs are going to affect things.

They

have because people would move their

businesses out of China and into India.

And then you saw what happened in India.

So it's hard to be able to plan long term.

And also the fashion industry already has 12.5% tariffs on a lot of what they produce.

So to stack it again is going to make it even more difficult, particularly for the smaller businesses.

Aaron Powell,

you have made Vogue a political magazine in many ways over the years.

And you yourself are a a political person.

You've been involved in fundraising and more for Hillary Clinton and

for the Democratic Party in general.

Tell me about that decision.

I think

my

personal

values are very important to me and I also have tried to be balanced

in our coverage and I also believe that

what

I believe many of our audiences do as well.

So

it's a tough time for Democrats, there's no question.

And hopefully, somebody will emerge in the not-too-distant future that will challenge our current administration.

Anything of that?

Well, I've been impressed by Governor Newsom.

I think he's certainly making a stand.

And obviously, I'm sure there'll be many other candidates that will emerge, hopefully, soon.

Hopefully, soon.

It seems pretty grim at the moment, though.

Well, we have time.

There was a movie that you may have heard of called The Devil Wears Prada.

And at first, and we didn't know each other very well when that came out, Condy Ness had a kind of different alignment than it does now.

And I should say, it's changed largely because of you and having editors' meetings, and the editors got to know each other a lot better than they used to, which is a gift.

When that first came out, were you hurt by it?

And then you seemed to embrace it in a certain way.

Well, I went to the premiere wearing Prada, completely

having no idea what the film was going to be about.

And I think that the fashion industry were very,

very sweetly concerned for me about the film, that it was going to paint me in

some kind of difficult light.

Cartoonish.

Yes.

Caricature.

But first of all, it was Meryl Streep, which fantastic.

And then I went to see the film and I found it highly enjoyable and very funny.

So

Mutch and I talk about it a lot.

Mutual product, yeah.

And I say to her, well, it was really good for you.

And you can imagine what she says back.

But, you know, in the end.

No, I can't.

What did she say then?

But,

no, I think, listen, it had a lot of humor to it.

It It had a lot of wit.

It had

Meryl Streep.

I mean, it was Emily Blunt.

I mean, they were all amazing.

And

in the end, I thought it was a fair shot.

At a certain point,

celebrities came to the cover of Vogue.

Was that something you did with hesitation?

You did it pretty early on.

I think Madonna might have been one of the first things.

One of the first.

Yeah, I felt that times were changing, that time was different, and that

our audiences, our readers were looking at fashion not just through

the lens of a model, as was

primarily on the cover before that.

Although, of course, if you think back to the days of

Mrs.

Vreeland and others, they did, you know, they had people like

Candice Berg and

Chloe's mother or

the editor of Vogue on Sexy City.

Or Mia Farrow.

I mean, it wasn't unheard of, but I think that

we recognized a change, we saw a change, and Madonna, of all the many celebrities that we've had on the cover of Vogue, she certainly loved in epitomized fashion and was fearless with it and had fun with it.

And it just felt like the

right time.

And I remember being on this plane and

sitting next to a straight-laced, straight, straight, wearing a suit gentleman.

And he asked asked me what I did, and I was telling him, and he said, Well, Vogue means to me

Audrey Hepburn, Catherine Herba and never Madonna.

And that made me think, time to change.

What are you most proud of having published at Vogue?

I couldn't possibly choose one piece or one story or one cover, David.

I think

it was very

quite moving being in the meeting this morning talking to all my colleagues about how I felt about Chloe and what a great job that she was doing.

And I think the thing I'm the most proud of is bringing in over so many years different talent, writers, photographers, videographers, editors to vogue.

I mean, that I...

To me, and I'm sure you feel to some degree the same way.

It's about who you surround yourself with.

Entirely.

And in the end, that's by far the most

important accomplishment to me.

Were you emotional at this meeting?

Well,

I've been thinking about it for such a long time, but

no, I was actually thrilled and excited and happy

for Chloe and excited for myself to look at things in a different way.

Does it mean that you'll have more free time?

I can't imagine Anna Winter with free time.

Well, I think I'll have...

Only two jobs now.

Yes, two jobs.

Two jobs.

But I am remaining fully committed as theater and tennis advisor to Vogue.

That's going to be my next big chapter.

Okay, I'm holding you to that.

Now, I think we're now ready for what we call the lightning round.

You ready?

Yes, of course.

Okay.

Who was the greatest fashion designer of your era as editor?

David, I only look towards the future.

What was the most triumphant or influential fashion show of that era?

Ditto.

Most lamentable fashion trend of your era?

Dayglow.

Okay.

True or false, Jeff Bezos was interested in buying Condinast.

Well, actually, I heard that he called you about that.

False.

Good turn.

You are actually, just as true or false, you are actually thrilled when assistants move at a glacial pace.

Nobody at Vogue moves at a glacial pace, least of all my assistants.

This is the most important question of all, Anna.

Finally, I wore a decent shirt and an actual jacket today in deference to you and the occasion.

But still, I think it's fair to say that I'm not known for my impeccable sense of style.

Anna, is it hopeless?

Where can I possibly begin?

David, I'm very touched that you wore a jacket, but I really like you in those New Yorker sweatshirts.

There I was living up to the satorial standards of the late Sinu House.

Thank you for having me.

Anna, thank you.

Anna Wintor has been editor of Vogue since 1988.

She'll remain the chief content officer for Condy Nast, which also publishes The New Yorker.

And if you missed any of our conversation, you can find the video on the New Yorker's YouTube page.

That's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today.

Thanks for listening.

Hope you enjoyed the show.

See you next time.

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