Building a Billion Dollar Brand with Anastasia Soare and Oprah

This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by Walmart.

Kim Kardashian is joining us now from New York City.

Hello.

Couldn't miss this.

Oh,

I remember at 1 a.m.

and she has this light that she puts where she looks like a minor, you know, with a...

Yes, yes, yes, we know that light.

And I've been in love ever since.

Hi there, and welcome to the Oprah Podcast, where my goal is to bring you some inspiration.

Yes, and new ideas and definitely a lot of good vibrations, good energy.

That's what's important to me right now is using my gifts, my talents, my voice to spread positive things into the world.

So I thank you all for choosing to spend your valuable time here with us.

You know, I believe the United States of America is just the greatest country the world has ever known because nowhere else on earth could my story come to fruition and nowhere else could my guest story be realized either.

Only in

America.

When Anastasia Soare came to America in 1989, she was 31 years old.

She had no money and a baby girl on her hip.

So let's talk about how this billion dollar empire started.

She started as a temp in a salon doing facials and now heads a global brand valued at over $3 billion.

That is the American dream.

Anastasia is here to tell us exactly how she did that.

What she taught Kim Kardashian.

I think it's really important for women in business to support each other.

That's true.

And what she wants all of you dreaming entrepreneurs to know.

So my question is around social media marketing.

So I'm thrilled to be here with a woman I have admired for so many years.

And,

you know, I go around the country speaking and I go around the world.

Sometimes I'm asked to speak in different countries.

And your story is the story I carry with me wherever I go because I think yours is the greatest immigrant story.

I've ever experienced.

Anastasia Suare,

who went from escaping communist Romania to building a billion-dollar brand, literally from her own mind and her own imagination and her own, I mean, hard, hard work.

And so this conversation today is to talk about how she did it, how she was raising brows,

and also to help those of you who are dreaming of your own dream, who may have felt lost in your dream, who may feel like

that that what you have hoped for and what you wish for and what you wanted to do cannot come true.

Anastasia is a living testimony that if she can do it, you can do it.

So I met her many years ago when I heard everybody was talking about this woman in Beverly Hills who was working magic, changing the way women saw themselves by changing the shape of their eyebrows.

And I was like, what?

What is that all about?

And that had me raising my own eyebrows.

And I'm thinking, who is this woman and i remember the first time i went to anastasia's beverly hills women were lined up around the corner like there was free food or something

anastasha welcome thank you so much thank you i i i have no words to thank you for your support over almost three decades.

Yeah, it's almost 30 years.

I know.

So I am so excited for our conversation because now everyone can learn, I think, how you became this brilliant, creative businesswoman.

And because you have finally written your book, Raising Brows, My Story of Building a Billion Dollar Beauty Empire.

And this book is for anybody.

You're chasing a dream.

You're striving to reach your highest potential.

This right here is the toolkit.

So I just want to say that for everybody who's saying, and you say this in the beginning of the book, you say, people who say, I don't know how to start a business.

I don't have a college degree or an MBA.

I don't speak English.

No one understands me when I talk.

I don't have contacts who can help me.

I don't have money.

I'm an immigrant.

I'm new to this country.

I'm too old.

I'm scared.

You say what?

Just start and do something.

Follow your dream.

Whatever you want to do.

You have a dream.

Don't just wait for the perfect plan, for the perfect product, for the perfect

everything.

Anything.

Just start.

And I say this because

in the book, you give all those examples, but you didn't know how to start a business.

You didn't have a college degree or an MBA.

You didn't speak English.

You were new to this country.

And you were scared.

Oh, my God.

I was so scared.

I was crying every single day the first six months being in America.

Well, you know, I started out by saying this is the greatest country in the world, even though we're all divided now and there's all kinds of, you know, polarization.

Only in this country could your story have been possible.

Only in this country could my story have been possible.

And you describe in raising brows that first moment of coming through, which I mean, it made me tear up because I think about you and every other immigrant who's come to this country.

You don't speak the language.

Yes.

And you have your literally baby

on your side.

You don't even know what the guy at the passport

was talking about.

You don't even know what he's saying.

Yes.

There's this moment where you describe, you see him speaking, you don't know what he's saying, but you look to the left and you look to the right to see what everybody else is doing.

And they're handing him these papers and you do that.

I did that and then still he asked me something.

I still couldn't understand.

The only

way I felt like I'm relief when he put the seal.

That thud.

Yes.

And I thought, oh my God, this is the best sound, sound of freedom.

Yeah.

That thud of the passport being stamped.

Stamped.

Yeah.

Yes.

Tell us about where you were coming from in that moment in Romania and

your choice to choose freedom because you were coming from communist Romania.

Your husband had already come to this country.

Yes.

And

the

communist regime, the police officers were looking for him because they felt like he had, what, defected his ship?

He defected.

He left the ship.

He was captain of the ship.

He defected the ship, went to American embassy and asked for political asylum.

And I had to go to the police station to answer questions.

Where is your husband?

You know, why he asked for political asylum.

Did you know that?

Of course, I had to be interrogated almost every other week.

And it was a very dark time in Romania.

The communist regime was oppressing everyone.

We didn't have electricity.

We didn't have food.

Even you couldn't buy milk for your kid.

Bread.

It was terrible.

Yeah.

And you had, in your earlier years, lived with your grandfather in a beautiful farmhouse, it sounded like.

And the communist regime came in, they took away the land, they took away the property.

Everything.

And everybody had to move into these like, you know, government-sanctioned apartments.

Correct.

Yes.

Yes.

After two homes were confiscated, he moved into a small apartment.

given by the government, fourth floor with no elevator.

And he was in his 80s.

And this is what it happened.

It was really bad.

And then you talk about,

and the reason I'm asking all these questions is because I want everybody to know that everything that you go through, everything that you've been through, is building strength.

for what is to come.

For sure.

That nothing is lost.

And so what really reminded me of this story is your father dies.

Yes.

And your mother is a mother of, you know, this is is 1957, 58, 59, in the early 60s.

Yes.

In Romania, there's not a lot of opportunities for women.

For women, there are zero opportunities.

Zero.

Zero, not a lot.

Not a lot.

And your mom is out of the home

running a tailoring seamstress business.

Yes.

And your mother and father had been doing that, right?

Both of them, yes.

And she came to me, I was 12.

She asked me to help her to keep the business.

Yeah, but this moment you paint in the book, this beautiful scene where you come home and you're crying, your father has died, and your mother says, there's no time to cry.

Yes.

Yeah.

There's no time to cry.

You are going to have to step in.

Yes.

And help me.

Yeah, and help me.

And what do you think as a 12-year-old in that moment?

And that moment, I thought, mom, I'm 12.

What do I know about business?

I don't know anything.

And of course, she said, well, you are smart.

I'm going to teach you everything.

Don't worry about it.

And

of course, I was scared, but if she said that I'm going to be okay and she's going to teach me, I follow her lead.

And so, again, I say, nothing that has ever happened to you is lost because watching your mother

every day, getting the vogue patterns.

Remember y'all when there used to be patterns and people made dresses from the patterns?

The women would come and choose from a vogue pattern

in communist Romania.

Correct.

Wasn't even allowed.

No.

And so you had to be doing doing this.

Your mother's doing this out of fear that at any time they can come in and say, What are you doing this for?

But the women would come to get dresses made.

For sure, because you couldn't go and buy dresses at the department store.

Everything was made to measure.

And she used to make that and to be in business because you are not allowed at that time to have your own business.

She figured out that

every wife of an

influential person in the communist regime party

wanted to have beautiful she wanted to dress well yes yeah so happy wives happy lives so this is how she was able to stay in business

and she

i think she she was a master of marketing and i think i learned so much from her without even thinking yes and not only learned something from her but you learned something from watching how the women transformed correct when they came into your mother's living room and would try on their clothes

and then they would feel beautiful for a moment.

Correct.

And then many years later, you do the same thing when you're transforming women with their brows.

Yes.

Yes.

Because I think the joy you get,

I watch my mom

watching her.

the way she dealt with the clients and the way her clients

had so much joy and they felt so beautiful.

I felt the same when I started doing eyebrows.

It's a very magical moment when a woman kind of feels beautiful and you feel empowered.

Once you feel beautiful, I think you feel even more powerful.

We need to take a quick break.

When we come back, Kim Kardashian joins us and shares the life lesson Anastasia taught her.

Walmart has committed $350 billion to products made, grown, or assembled in the United States by 2030, creating 750,000 jobs right here in America.

And did you know the good people at Walmart have a deep commitment to supporting American entrepreneurship and helping small businesses succeed?

Every year since 2014, Walmart hosts Open Call, where entrepreneurs pitch their businesses directly to Walmart merchants.

I didn't know that.

Then Walmart hands out more than 100 coveted golden tickets, so great, to well-deserving small and medium business owners, putting their products online and in Walmart stores across the nation, helping them to expand and create jobs in their local communities.

Ah, I think that's an extraordinary opportunity.

Walmart, who knew?

Learn more at Walmart.com.

Hey there, glad you're back.

I am with Anastasia Suare, who is the brilliant founder of her own billion-dollar beauty brand.

She has one of the most incredible stories I've ever heard.

So let's talk about how this billion-dollar empire started.

I mean, that's what's so remarkable about it.

You started plucking people's eyebrows

and ended up making a billion, more than a billion dollars.

And you believe that eyebrows are our most powerfully defining feature.

Explain why.

So

this is, I didn't invent this.

It's a well-known idea that Leonardo da Vinci, for instance, used the golden ratio in all his work.

You learned this when you went to art school

in communist Romania.

Correct.

As an art student in Romania, Anastasia studied Leonardo da Vinci.

He used the golden ratio to create proportion and balance in his paintings, a balance that is especially pleasing to the human eye.

This is the genius idea behind the way Anastasia shapes brows.

My teacher always said, if you want to draw a portrait and you want to change an emotion, you just change the eyebrow shape.

And working as an aesthetician, When I came to United States,

I, of course, we did facial body waxing, but never eyebrow in Los Angeles.

Nobody was into eyebrows.

And I realized that when I bought bought a camera, a disposable camera, I realized that my eyebrows was penciled thin and round because in the 80s that was the fashion.

They were drawing their eyebrows.

Correct.

And I looked surprised.

So it was the aha moment where I thought, wow, I look surprised because my eyebrows.

Yeah.

So I went to the bathroom.

Everybody looks surprised.

Yes.

Correct.

Yes.

I went to the library and I revisited the books.

I rented all the books with Leonardo da Vinci and I was able to create the perfect arch for me, the perfect shape.

And then I start sharing with my clients because my clients will come to the shop and they will think, wow, you look different.

You look rested.

Did you change your hair?

They didn't know was the eyebrows.

The first time I got my eyebrows down by you, I felt like I looked like I had my face lifted.

Do you see something happened opened up here?

It completely brings so much harmony, so much balance and proportion because eyebrow is the most important feature on our face who knew that well

you're looking at you didn't you didn't invent it but you were the person who discovered that that is what makes me

you didn't know you were starting a brow revolution of course not no of course not no and then there were no products for eyebrows i was mixing aloe vera with eyeshadow and vaseline to create this pomade to fill in the perfect shape Wow.

And the clients will come back after the visit and they will tell me that their eyebrow look perfect when they leave the salon, but when they will take a shower,

they need that products.

So that was the moment when I thought, I'm going to go to Italy to Cosmoprof and start a product line.

Wow.

This is how it all started.

I know, but before it all started, how many times did you run into people who didn't believe in your theory?

Constantly.

Constantly.

Yeah, even my husband.

Yes.

It's like, are you crazy?

Because I told him, like, I'm going to quit my job.

He didn't work at that time.

I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to rent a space, a room.

I just want to say he didn't work at that time because your husband was a really brilliant man.

Yes.

And had, you know, coming here as an immigrant, the only job he could get was as a cab driver.

Correct.

And working as a cab driver 14 hours a day just

wore him out.

Yes.

And he got in a fight with a customer because the customer found a book in the back seat, a Nietzsche book, and he kind of ridiculed my husband.

Like, oh, there's no way you are reading this book.

I think a previous

one.

Yeah, the customer had said, oh, somebody left this book.

Your husband said, oh, that's my book.

And he said, there's no way you're a cab driver and you're reading this book.

And your husband got into it.

In a fight, and he got fired.

Yeah.

So now you're the breadwinner.

Now I'm the breadwinner.

And I told him, like,

I really believe in eyebrows.

I think they are so important.

The owners of the shop didn't believe in it.

And I'm going to rent a room in a bedroom.

Let's preface this by saying you had gone to work substituting for another esthetician.

That was pregnant for three months.

And then after

the time she came back,

they liked me and I stayed there for a year and a half, almost two years.

What's important to me about that story?

And I was just saying this to somebody who recently, a member of my family who was like, you know, they're having trouble.

They haven't fulfilled their dreams and they think they should have fulfilled their dreams already.

I I said, the reason you haven't fulfilled your dreams is because you weren't really willing to take the jobs and do what was necessary to get to the dream.

Everybody just wants the dream.

Correct.

And so what's important about your story is that your husband,

you're new to this country, you don't really speak English well,

and

you take a job as an esthetician.

Yes.

Because that's the job that was available to you

at the time.

And as that esthetician, you then decide, well, you know what?

I can make women look and feel even better.

Even better.

Yes.

And then you dare to do it, even though the people who you're working for are saying, no, that's not important.

Correct.

I think the key to follow your dream is just start.

Start somewhere.

And nobody is going to put you to run the company.

Nobody is going to ask you to be the CEO of the company.

I know.

But start as an intern or whatever.

Just learn the business and you will figure out, do I like this or maybe I don't?

Well, I credit you with starting the Brow Revolution and the list of celebrity brows that you've done.

Victoria Beckham and Jennifer Lopez and Naomi Campbell and Michelle Pfeiffer and Heidi Kluman going on and on and on.

And Kim Kardashian.

Yes.

Kim Kardashian is joining us now via Zoom from New York City.

Hello.

Hi.

Your brows look fabulous.

Couldn't miss this, you know?

Thank you.

I really do get how important Anastasia's business is and how she has shaped so many faces and how brows can really give you so much confidence and shape your face when you just you might not even realize that's what's doing you.

So I just have to had to give her some love today and let her know that you've shaped my face.

You know how important you are to me.

And I'm so proud of you for being here talking to your friend.

Thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to be with us.

Tell us a story of how you first met Anastasia.

All I remember is looking up at, it could be at a baby shower of mine in the dark.

It could be at a wedding in the middle of the night.

I remember at 1 a.m.

and she has this light that she puts where she looks like a minor, you know?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

We know that light.

Blaring in your face.

So I don't remember exactly when we met.

I think I came into the store.

Yes, you came in the store.

Yeah, I think I was getting my nails done across the street on Bedford and I walked across and I couldn't believe you were in the store.

And I just had to get my brows done.

And I've been in love ever since.

But I will always have this burned memory in my brain, a core memory of just your light in my face, getting it done.

no matter where, no matter what, any important moment that I've had in my life, you've been there.

So yeah.

Well, I mean, I don't know a harder working businesswoman, maybe yourself.

Yes.

What do you think is the secret to Anastasia's success?

I think she found

something, like a niche

idea and products that people didn't know they needed.

And she let the world know they needed it.

And it was her thing and she coined it.

And

we all need it.

And we all feel better because of it.

And it could just be a simple brow product, a simple brow pencil.

We all have that Anastasia brow pencil.

You can find one in any one of my purses.

She found that product that everyone needs.

My now is the Brow Freeze Gel.

I go nowhere without the Brow Freeze Gel.

Yeah, the Brow Freeze Gel.

And what have you learned from Kim?

Kim is one of the hardest workers.

She is constant, but not only her,

all the sisters and the mother.

Chris is amazing, but Kim is an incredible mother, an incredible sister, an incredible daughter, and the hardest working.

Like she is right now promoting her brand schemes with Nike, and she still took the time to

join us and supported me.

Thank you.

You know why?

Because,

well, because I love you and because this is is Zopra, but also because you are not a gatekeeper.

And I think it's really important for women in business to support each other and to share what we've learned and the hard, the good, the bad.

And the one person that my mom and I talk about all the time that shares every detail of what you've been through on and tips of how for us to be successful, you want everyone around you to be successful.

And if you see something, you pull us aside and you say, Hey, this isn't going to work.

And this is what you need to do.

And here's the number.

And you need to call this person.

And that is so rare.

She will share from factories to business people to things that people in this business do not share.

And she is so open that I would do anything for her.

And she knows that.

Well, congratulations, Kim, on the new launch.

And

I know much success is coming from that.

Thank you for zooming in.

So great to see you.

What an honor.

It's great to see you.

So great to see you.

Thank you.

All right.

Thanks.

That's Kim Kardashian, y'all.

Yes.

And on the Oprah podcast Instagram page,

we heard from thousands of you who, just like Anastasia, you feel a business calling in your life.

And two of those women, Diana and Jackie, join us now via Zoom from San Diego.

Hi, ladies.

What's your question?

Hi.

Hi.

Hi, Diana and Jackie.

Hi, Anna.

Thank you so much for having us.

We are thrilled to be here today.

We started our business, Color Addict, about a year and a half ago, and we are passionate about color.

We believe that color inspires and we've been selling our textiles, our pillows, our table runners, our napkins, and blankets at female maker markets in San Diego.

But we're at a pivotal point and we'd like to know how we can scale up our business.

Well, what I will suggest, I love all the colors.

They are so vibrant and beautiful.

And I have to tell you that I love, as you know, I love to throw dinner parties and

love.

I will want to see a set up of a dining table with all your napkins and how you pair.

Because when you post on social media, you have three seconds to get my attention and everybody else.

So what I will suggest figure out who is your customer and tag when you post on Instagram tag that store that you want.

You want Walmart.

You want who do you want to sell your products and tag and find out where is their headquarter and try to get an appointment.

Don't give up.

Like go and knock at every single door and don't give up.

This is what I do.

I like this idea of obviously obviously you all are on social media, on Instagram.

I like this idea of

setting a beautiful table or setting a beautiful bed or setting a beautiful sofa, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Correct.

Creating that.

And even if it means you have to go to somebody else that also would appreciate that creation, creating that so that when we see it, there is the visual.

We are very visual.

There's the visual stimulation for it.

Because as we're going to talk about in a few moments, Anastasia was big, was doing brows, people were lined up around the corner, but the business didn't take off until her daughter, Claudia, came in and said, I think we need to create an Instagram story.

Yes.

Leanne Morgan, who was just here, who now has a special with Netflix, who's now touring the country, who's one of the funniest women I know, nothing happened until she went on social media.

They did an Instagram story.

She hired these two guys who she didn't really know that well to build a story about her.

So the world responds to storytelling.

So the question becomes, Diana and Jackie, what is your story?

What is the story you want to offer to the public?

Because what you're doing with your business is the same thing that

Anastasia did, that I do.

For every show I was doing, it was an offering to the audience.

It's an offering.

So what is the story you want to tell about the offerings?

And get busy telling that story.

Yeah.

Thank you, both.

Thank you so much and good luck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, this is what, you know, I was so moved and I have been, I mean, I've known for years I'd heard the story that you learned to speak English watching the Oprah show.

I know.

Yes.

And then I teared up when I was reading that because one of the things that you said in the book was that

I and the show became your anchor, that you are watching as a person who doesn't speak English.

And you actually said to your husband one day, what he was saying, you should turn that off.

Why are you watching that?

You don't even know what they're saying.

And you said, I'm going to watch because.

Because I want to be on her show and I want to learn how she asks questions because I need to learn how to answer her questions.

I know.

And it was a joke.

I never in my wildest dream in 1990, I was ever thinking that I will be on your show.

But I will watch that because it was my hope.

And you know what else, Oprah?

When I started writing the book, I realized why there were so many daytime shows at that time.

Why I was watching you and I couldn't understand was your voice because in Romania, I had four

VCRs tapes and one of them was

the color purple.

And I will watch, but you looked so different

with the color purple.

And when I watched your

show was the voice that was very familiar, because I watched that probably a hundred times with my family.

And I felt like I was home with you.

You watch the color purple and you watch Pretty Woman.

Yes, Pretty Woman and Beverly Hills Cup.

Beverly Hills Cup, and now you live across the street from Eddie Murphy.

That is

American.

Correct.

Wow.

Yes, but

it was magical.

Well, here's the thing with the show.

Every time I ever discovered anything was a pair of Uggs, a pair of pajamas.

That's how favorite things started.

Yes, you discovered it.

I wanted to share.

I wanted everybody to know.

So when I discovered you and what you were able to do for my brows that first day, you handed me the mirror and I went,

it looks like I had a facelift.

I wanted the audience to experience or know about you in the same way.

So y'all, this is what I did.

You could never do this in today's world, but I had Anna Sasha on the Oprah show.

We're like live broadcast television.

Cleaning eyebrows.

Doing eyebrows.

For five minutes.

Yes.

All right, this is Anastasia.

Clean of brows.

There's just me lying on the thing getting my eyebrows done and the audience watching me getting my eyebrows done.

Lay my head back, all the way back, look up.

Hello there.

Hello.

It is the craziest thing.

You supported me from the beginning and I'm forever grateful for you.

Well, I did it because I believed in you, but I also was just wanted everybody else to

know about it.

This is what was so different about you because you shared everything with everyone.

Yeah, I shared too much.

No, you didn't.

We all, I mean, I was like watching that show non-stop.

Yes, but you had this thing, too, that you say in the book, My Grandfather's Ability to Keep Going, taught me that no matter what is happening around you, only you have the power over your mindset.

Only you can decide what will give you meaning.

And once you make that decision, every action you take, whether personally or in business, needs to move you toward making that happen.

This is what I appreciate about you.

You would not give up

with the whole brow thing.

Yes.

Yes.

Everybody is saying, lady, you're crazy.

You're crazy.

Yes.

You can't do a business on just brows.

You can pay rent doing eyebrows, the landlord will say.

Yes.

And

the broker that I went there to have the meeting with the landlord.

It's like after at first no, he said, okay, let's go.

He doesn't want to rent you the space.

I know.

I'm not leaving this.

No, we have to.

Let me show you how many celebrity I'm shaping eyebrows for.

I'm very successful.

Like, I start selling myself.

Yeah.

And it's like, no, lady, this is Beverly Hills.

Doing eyebrows, you will not be able to pay rent.

It's like, by John, it's like, how I will do it.

This is the guy who was going to sell you, let you have the place

on Bedford.

And at the end, I pulled my last card.

It's like, look, I'm sure your parents, your grandparents, grand-grandparents were immigrants in this country.

Somebody give them a chance.

Give me a chance.

For six months, let me have this space.

And if I don't make it, I will leave.

So he looked at me and he said, okay, I will give you six months.

Wow.

That is great.

I thank you for following the Oprah podcast.

Next, Anastasia's daughter, Claudia, joins the conversation.

You have to hear how her mom actually fired her from the company and then rehired her.

Walmart has committed $350 billion to products made, grown, or assembled in the United States by 2030.

The good people at Walmart have a deep commitment to supporting American entrepreneurship.

Every year since 2014, Walmart hosts Open Call where entrepreneurs pitch their businesses directly directly to Walmart merchants.

Then Walmart hands out more than 100 coveted golden tickets to well-deserving small and medium business owners, putting their products online and in Walmart stores across the nation.

Walmart, who knew?

Learn more at Walmart.com.

Hey, y'all, thanks for coming back to the Oprah podcast.

My hope is this conversation gives you the courage and the inspiration.

to chase your own dreams.

Well, let's talk about Claudia.

Yeah.

So Claudia is Anastasia's daughter.

Yes.

And on social media, she goes by Norvina, y'all, and she's the president and creative director of Anastasia Beverly Hills.

Hi, Claudia.

Hi, Claudia.

Yes.

Hi, babe.

Hi, mom.

Hi, Claudia.

Hi.

So you weren't always president of the company.

I was reading at one point your mom even fired you.

What happened?

You know,

in the beginning you know I was I was young and I didn't really

I didn't really have a deep appreciation for time and being punctual I was late to work

and my mom would warn me you know she said we start here at nine that means you have to be here 10 minutes early 15 minutes prep the space you can't waltz in at 905 that's not how this works And you know, I'm 19, 18, I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, mom.

And she goes, if you're late three times, I will fire you.

And I didn't believe her.

On that third time, she literally fired me from the front desk.

Yes.

You couldn't believe it, right?

Yeah.

You couldn't believe it.

She was like, go.

And I was like, what are you talking about?

She's like, you're done.

You don't respect my time.

You don't respect the girls' time.

You know, the girls that were doing brows.

She's like, you've got to go.

So I was done.

And what was your takeaway after being fired?

You went and worked for an insurance company, right?

I was so bad.

Oh, my God.

I've never been so depressed.

It was one month in like a dark room with no windows filing.

I'm not very good at that.

The takeaway was that you really have to be punctual.

You have to respect time.

And I think the biggest takeaway I would say was that's when we kind of level set our relationship.

And I understood that while she's my mom, this is work.

Yeah.

So where did you get this idea?

I mean, the business was doing fine.

You all were making more money than you ever imagined and selling a lot of product.

And everybody in Hollywood was coming and the brow revolution had started.

So where did you get the idea of

social media?

This was 2012.

It was, well, for a long time, you know, our biggest concern was that

being a brow brand, you know, there's no way to continue to

expand and innovate quarterly as most retailers expect you.

You have to launch four times a year.

That's literally impossible with eyebrows um so our biggest fear was like okay well where do we go from here we have to have makeup we have to have something else to really get get the products like become a bigger brand um and retailers didn't really understand they didn't really want to support it they said no you're the brow people there's people that do makeup we don't think customers will understand the messaging and thankfully i started using early on from the very beginning instagram and i i really loved the sense of community on there and the ability to uh communicate directly with people versus traditional print and everything that was the standard.

Yes.

So as we were just sharing with Diane and Jackie, who's starting their own business selling all these items with color, that it's about the story that you tell about the product.

That's what changed for you, right?

Yes.

You know, in traditional advertising, you can't tell a story.

No one's reading your biography and brand DNA in a one-page advertisement.

But on Instagram, you have the ability to post as many times as you want.

There were no videos at the time.

It was only photos.

You can post as many times as you want.

You can be as descriptive.

You could be funny.

You could tell your story.

You could explain about your products.

You could explain about Anastasia.

And it literally built a community for us.

And it became this huge thing.

And we were able to launch makeup because of social media.

Well, your mom says on page 174, when I think about it now, if it all ended for me tomorrow, I would say my greatest achievement in life, even beyond the business I built, is that my daughter has found found her purpose and that she does it extraordinarily well.

That makes you feel what when you hear that?

Oh, that's so nice.

Like it's amazing.

Like, I think my mom is the best.

I look up to my mom so much.

So to have her validate what I do is really, really great.

And you have found your passion in the creating of the products and the makeup.

And I mean, that's where you have now found your home.

Thank God we're not in plumbing.

Yes, she kind of laid the groundwork for like the most amazing, you know, industry that you could imagine.

It's beauty.

Who doesn't love beauty?

And I figured out that.

I listen, I love plumbing when I need a plumber.

It's true, but I would be terrible at it, you know?

Yes, yeah.

And you name all the products and all the lipsticks and all the things.

You do that.

All of that, the marketing and kind of the storytelling.

It's not just about launching it.

It's about then how do you do a launch event?

How do you talk about it?

How do you promote it?

It's carrying the whole thread, telling the story.

Claudia, thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Claudia.

Thanks for joining us.

Thanks for joining us.

We have one more podcast listener with a question.

Shanice is a professional closet organizer.

Hello.

Hi.

Hi, Oprah and Anastasia.

Hi.

You know, I love an organized closet, girl.

It just.

Yes.

Let me just tell you.

Oh.

Everyone should have the privilege, the joy, the sheer delight of being in Anastasia's closet.

One night I went to her house house for a dinner party and I, she said, oh, come upstairs.

I want to show you something.

And I go upstairs.

It is better than Bergdorfs up there, baby.

Bergdorfs?

It's better than Bergdorfs in Anastasia's closet.

She's got things organized by designers and years and vintage and shoes and

it was like you want to live in that closet.

So that's a closet.

So the fact that you, but so that's what you do for people is you create closets that look like Bergdorfs?

Yes, pretty much.

So as a professional closet organizer and also a scientist, I really focus on the closet because I have this like hypothesis around the closet.

I think it's like the most overlooked space in our homes, yet it holds the most weight.

It's where we hold our insecurities, our fears, our tears, and we shove all the stuff we don't want people to see, but yet it has the power to like be the most transformational space.

So I've been doing this for over a decade for people from A-list celebrities to everyday people and just helping them transform their closet.

And I really do have a question for you.

I know, but I love this.

I love that there's a science to the closet.

Yes,

there is.

Believe me, because your company is called Closet Therapy, right?

Yes, Closet Therapy.

Okay.

Oh, well, that's who you call.

You call the closet therapist if you need your closets right now.

And I will say this: that having your closet organized

changes everything about the way you live, does Does it not?

It elevates everything.

Literally in your mental health as well.

So like a lot of times people don't realize that you frequent this space every day, morning and night.

And every time there's like clutter or something, you're visually sending something to your brain saying chaos.

And you don't want to do that.

You want the space to be organized and orderly.

Okay, okay.

Now I'm going to give you your time for your question for Anastasia.

So my question is around social media marketing because it's so easy to confuse popularity with profitability.

And although like the followers, the likes, the views, and press opportunities are great, how do you translate the visibility into profitability?

So you are selling a service.

And I will tell you how I vision my service because I was shaping eyebrows and I thought I have two hands.

How much I used to work non-stop, but I couldn't do more than 100 eyebrows a day.

How I make more money, how I will, I will profit, how I will do something more than that.

That service is very difficult to sell a service.

You have a cap.

Do you remember before the velvet

hangers, they were only the wood or the plastic?

Yeah.

Who is that person that invented that?

Start to invent, because you're a scientist.

Come with some ideas to sell products.

Like what is the best steamer?

And partner with with a retailer that sells steamers

hooks to to hold the hands when you steam I mean I have to search a lot to find the best one so I think or

boxes to put my dust bag for my shoes because I wanted to have a pretty box it was challenging I had to do custom so maybe you partner with with a manufacturer that could do something for you and you could sell that

Don't you think?

I think so.

And I think, you know,

what went Anastasia is stimulating for me in terms of thinking about this, a different way of thinking about this, is you sit down and you look at everything that you do for the closet and how you could take whatever that is,

every single thing that you do for the closet, everything anybody needs for their closet, and how you can turn the need for whatever that one specific thing is or multiple things

into

a service or into a product that people could use.

Yes.

That's good.

Okay.

That's good.

Products always make you more money than service.

Products are going to make you more money than service.

Yes.

That is my takeaway.

Thank you.

That is your takeaway.

I am so grateful.

Thank you.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you, Shanice.

It's so interesting.

You were talking about how you love to have dinner parties, and I was at a wonderful dinner party at your house.

That's how I ended up in the closet, y'all.

And I had no idea that you had a dinner party for 25 years of business.

I know.

And at the table was

all the women who you've serviced over the years.

And

you want to read what you

were thinking?

I had no idea you were thinking this.

I was just coming in like, hi, hi, everybody.

And you say.

The doorbell rang.

The guests were arriving.

I could hear Oprah's deep laugh as I turned away from the dining room to greet them in the hallway just beyond the doors.

My mind flashed back to another time.

I was digging in the dirt behind my house in Romania to hide the family silver, which was my grandmother's proudest possession, so it wouldn't be confiscated by the government police knocking at the door.

My fingernails were breaking.

I was sweating with fears, even though the temperature was frigidly cold.

In an instant, I was back to greet my guests I was here now a living testament that through hard work drive and greed you could survive you could thrive America truly is the land of opportunity like no other country in the world a place where an immigrant can start with nothing and go on to build a better life like I did

That very same family silver was now on the table at my party.

Isn't that great?

Yes.

Yeah, that is great.

That you ended up bringing your mother from Romania.

I know.

Your mother who lives right down the street from you.

Yeah.

And you brought the silver that you'd buried.

Yes.

And

have created this incredible life.

Yes.

Just beyond anything you could have imagined.

Beyond.

No, so I wanted to end with this.

You say in the very beginning of the book, people often ask me what the secret to achievement is.

Of course, it has a lot to do with working hard, building authentic connections, striving for excellence in every pursuit, being determined, and always doing more than the job at hand.

Principles by which I live.

I know you live by those principles because I've seen you do it.

But it's also about something less tangible and more magical that begins when you cultivate a particular attitude that drives you forward.

And you say, for me, it is an unshakable belief

that whispers in my ear from the minute I get up to when I go to sleep that says you can do anything I've always believed this and it has been the foundation and heartbeat of all I have accomplished and I wanted to end with that because I wanted to say lots of people want things

Lots of people desire, they have wishes, but you actually become what you believe is possible.

Correct.

Yeah.

I really believed that I could do anything I put my mind into.

I think my mother instilled that in me.

I think my grandfather did.

That's right.

But I really, really believed in

myself.

And I had no fears.

I think that's another part of my being that I never have a fear.

I think fear kind of stops you from doing what you want to do.

Well, and I know a lot of people don't do things because they are afraid.

And I want to just say that the reason why you had no fear is because you literally had been interrogated and been the most afraid you'd ever been.

So when the communist regime is shining the light in your face, saying, where is your husband?

When you waited three years to get a passport to come to America and every day

they are fighting you and threatening you.

After you have been in that kind of fear, you say, okay,

what do I have to lose?

So I'm going to be afraid of somebody not liking me?

Exactly.

No, that's...

I'm going to be afraid of somebody telling me I can't have this rent from this store.

Yes.

That's what it is.

The magic is right there.

Yes, and that's why I say nothing is ever lost.

You would never think that when you're in the middle of a crisis and,

you know, God forbid you're in a communist regime and people are treating you horribly and you don't even know if you're going to survive,

that

those

strength-building tactics that you use to survive are going to be the thing that gets you through every negotiation with somebody who wants to buy your company.

I mean, that that is what makes you fearless.

Correct.

Is having stood up to it.

Yes.

And in the book, I said

as well, when you come from darkness,

you recognize the light and light is here.

That's right.

And

when you've only had the light, you don't even recognize the light.

You don't recognize, yes.

Yes.

Because you're living a great life.

Yeah.

Anastasia's extraordinary line of beauty products are available now.

Her phenomenal new book is available on Walmart.com.

And I want to give a special thank you to our friends at Walmart for supporting this episode with Anastasia.

Thank you, Kim Kardashian, for joining the conversation.

Diana and Jackie and Shanice, take that advice, y'all, and best of luck.

As always, a heartfelt thanks to all of you, our listeners, and see you next week.

Go well.

Raising brows.

Go out there and raise some brows, y'all.

Thank you, Oprah, again and again for your support.

Thank you.

You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

I'll see you next week.

Thanks, everybody.