#318 ‒ Cycling phenom and Tour de France champion Tadej Pogačar reveals his training strategies, on-bike nutrition, and future aspirations

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Speaker 1 My guest this week is Tadé Pogachar, a professional cyclist and three-time winner of the Tour de France in 2020, 2021, and most recently 2024.

Speaker 1 For those who may not know his story, Tadé, who today is just 26 years old, has already been compared to the most legendary all-round cyclist of all time, Eddie Mercks.

Speaker 1 He's generally referred to now as the second coming of Mercks, whose nickname was the Cannibal for the manner in which he devoured the competition.

Speaker 1 Tadé was a very successful junior rider, winning some of the most prominent races prior to his breakthrough year in 2019, when he signed on with the UAE team.

Speaker 1 He won the Tour of California that year and won three stages of the Buelta España, one of the three grand tours, en route to an overall third-place finish, as well as the young rider title.

Speaker 1 And then, of course, in 2020, he was the unexpected winner of the Tour de France. This is something we will discuss in detail in this podcast.

Speaker 1 Now, since that time, Tadi has basically rewritten the record books.

Speaker 1 He's done things that people generally have thought, frankly, impossible in the modern era of cycling, largely because of the specialization of the sport today.

Speaker 1 Typically, cyclists will focus on one type of race, and yet Tadet has demonstrated an appetite to basically conquer everything he does.

Speaker 1 That means he's competing not just in grand tours and shorter stage races, but also some of the most grueling one-day races of all time. In fact, there are five such races.

Speaker 1 He has already won three of them. And of course, we discuss his aspirations around the others.
2024 was kind of a momentous year.

Speaker 1 He first won the Giro d'Italia and the Tour de France, a double feat that has not been accomplished. for nearly 30 years, and he set a record-winning 12 stages across both of these.

Speaker 1 He is currently the number one ranked cyclist in the world, a record that he's held for about 170 weeks and counting.

Speaker 1 And he is going to attempt in a week to do something that, again, many people thought would never be possible in the modern era of cycling, which is to complete something known as the triple crown, which is winning the Giro, the tour, which he's already done, and then managing to win the World Championship road race.

Speaker 1 I have wanted to interview Today for some time, and of course, the opportunity of him racing at the GP montreal just two weeks out from the world championship was remarkable and fortuitous so i was very grateful to have his time in this conversation we talk about his remarkable 2020 season where he took the world by storm and won the tour de france in one of the most dramatic finishes that race has ever seen we talk about the highs and lows of his career since that time We talk about how he trains, how nutrition has evolved on the bike, and why that allows cyclists today to do things that were previously thought impossible.

Speaker 1 This is a bit of an interesting podcast if you are not a cyclist, because some of the things that he talks about are simply difficult to wrap your mind around.

Speaker 1 But hopefully, my reaction to those things, for example, his power numbers, will give you a sense of the fact that I'm really talking to one of the most fit human beings on the planet at this moment.

Speaker 1 So, without further delay, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Tadi Pogacha.

Speaker 1 Tadi, thank you so much for making time. Obviously, you just raced yesterday.
You've got to race tomorrow, and we're two weeks out from the World Championships. So to give us any time is amazing.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 No, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 A lot of people listening will know everything about you as I do, or, you know, they're super fans, but there's also probably a number of people listening who might not appreciate the magnitude of what you've accomplished in a very short period of time.

Speaker 1 I learned about you in 2019 as the most promising young cyclist that was coming up, but I don't think many people, probably myself included, expected what happened in 2020 at the Tour de France.

Speaker 1 What were your expectations going into the tour that year?

Speaker 2 I was not expecting at all to win in 2020. It was COVID year.
We had pretty good trainings, not too many races, so not too much to prove no.

Speaker 2 In 2019 was breakthrough year for me, but then 2020 came and it was like a long period doing nothing, just training. We went to the tour with Fabi Arro and me as two leaders.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it turns out in the end I was fighting for podium place, for second place in the last week. I was really happy with that.
And the final time trial came and it all turned the head table around.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I won the tour. It was unbelievable.
I think still a lot of people don't believe it happened. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, obviously people at the time of that final time trial said we haven't seen a race like this since Le Monde and Laurent Fignon in I think it was eighty when he had that come behind.

Speaker 1 But what stage in 2020 did you realize I'm going to be on the podium?

Speaker 2 On stage Cola Rosa, I think I was sure I'm going to be second because this was the queen stage and I come behind Roglich just 15 seconds. Lopez win that stage on High Mountain.

Speaker 2 So yeah, that was the day I knew that this is it now. But I also think Roglich thought that day that he's going to win.
So yeah, you never know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so going into that last time trial, what was your team telling you in the radio at the time checks or even before the time checks in terms of your delta per roguish on a kilometer basis roguish was starting behind me and yeah the time checks were like i think two time checks on the flat before the final climb i got the times i don't know who was leading that time on the flat section i got that time and how much i think i was even behind then when the climb came There were so many people I did not hear a word on in the radio.

Speaker 2 I just went.

Speaker 2 We thought I would go and I just went full gas to the top did you feel anything different that day I mean did it feel like better than some of the other stages or was it simply a matter of he had deteriorated more than you across 20 days because it was the last hard stage the next day is just Sean Zelize just roll through it's still hard race but yeah if everything goes normal you your GC stays the same Yeah, it was okay final time trial.

Speaker 2 I just need to be relaxed. Second place, white jersey.
They were preparing a white bike for me for the next day for ceremony.

Speaker 1 And it was cool. It was driven.
You didn't feel the pressure?

Speaker 2 I didn't feel nothing. No, we were really chilled out.
I knew the parkourse really well because I did recon before with Alan Piper and Michael Bierk. We did a lot of work on that.

Speaker 2 And when the day came, yeah, I was just mad. There was everybody was happy around and there was no tension, no stress, nothing.
And we just...

Speaker 2 roll with it and then it was one of the best days I ever had.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a little hard to believe. Do you remember what your average power was over that time trial? Yeah.

Speaker 2 On the flat, I had a power meter and a unit, and then on the climb, I had nothing because I wanted to have a 6.8 kilograms bike, so as light as possible by regulations.

Speaker 2 On the flat, I went, I think, 380 to 390, so nothing crazy on the flat, but I guess I was just going fast enough to be in that range.

Speaker 1 What was your weight by that point of the tour? Were you

Speaker 1 60 kilos?

Speaker 2 I think that year, in 2020, I was like 66 even, I think. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What did you weigh this year?

Speaker 2 I come to the tour with 64 and a half and then 65 and 65 and a half, then jumping from around 65 through all the tour.

Speaker 1 So 21 is another amazing year. And in 22 and 23, you have great race, but a couple of stages where it goes wrong.
In 22, I guess the first stage where it was a struggle was at 16.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Coldogranon. We went Telegraph, Galibi, down, Viansoon, almost to Brenton.

Speaker 1 And non-stop attacking. Vismar attacking, constant, constant, constant.

Speaker 2 Where I made my mistake. I mean, yeah, shouldn't follow Roglich immediately there on the Telegraph.
He tech already on Telegraph.

Speaker 2 I think with, yeah, who was Tish Benu and then Laporte with him on the downhill and they just flew down. And when we start

Speaker 2 Galibi they just go one by one. I had to respond I think eight or nine attacks.

Speaker 1 And you looked very strong.

Speaker 2 Yeah I was I was really good but I think yeah if you do eight sprints no takes too much and then I tried to respond by being stupid no and I tried to drop everybody from the wheel on Galibi but then I knew that Walton Art is also in the front and is checkmate anyway no.

Speaker 2 So yeah that was just stupid for me.

Speaker 1 And how much of that, I mean, just from a nutritional standpoint, did you feel depleted? Did you feel like you didn't have enough? Were you short a bottle on that stage or something?

Speaker 2 I ate enough, but

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 you cannot eat enough when you do so much,

Speaker 2 so much power, you do so much attacking, you cannot take more food than you can, no? So I think we had quite good plant nutrition and everything.

Speaker 2 But if you do too much with your body, you cannot replace that.

Speaker 1 When you're training, do you try to simulate that extent of attacking and recovering? And obviously, you can't replicate that fully in a training session.

Speaker 2 Since I was a junior, even before, I knew what's gonna be per course like.

Speaker 2 Then find around my home similar type and then just do repetitions of one climb, like how many times it's gonna be in the race. And now sometimes I still do the same.

Speaker 2 I just see, for example, here in Montreal, tomorrow is around four minutes climb to five minutes and two short ones.

Speaker 2 So you just try to do as many as possible repetitions in the trainings as well and trying to simulate the race.

Speaker 1 What kind of climb do you like the most? What kind of climb do you like the least in terms of grade and duration?

Speaker 2 Well, depends on the shape also. I really like around twenty minute climbs, quite steep.

Speaker 1 Ten to twelve percent or not that steep?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say now that because we go really fast, 7% to 8%,

Speaker 2 it's already a lot of drafting. But then what's more than 9%, I think, is pretty cool because there's not much draft.
So you can do what you want, basically.

Speaker 1 Do you have many climbs near you that replicate where you can do 20 minutes at 8, 9, 10%?

Speaker 2 No, not really, not really. But 5 to 10 minutes, yes.
9%, 10%.

Speaker 2 In Slovenia, also just around 10 minutes with steep ones, but 20 minutes, that's quite rare.

Speaker 1 And then, how much does the heat factor into it, and how much are you able to replicate that in training?

Speaker 2 I think heat training became a thing now in cycling a little bit, especially this year, maybe last two, three years. I mean, we try to overheat the body in the training session or in a home trainer.

Speaker 2 It is a big factor, especially for me. I felt always that I struggle when it's super hot.
But yeah, if you try to train this, you can be better.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I guess I could imagine if you're on a trainer at home it's easy to replicate it. Otherwise you just have to find the environment at the elevation altitude.

Speaker 1 This year, twenty twenty four, remarkable year for you winning the Giro so comfortably, winning the tour quite comfortably, but seemed to be your strongest year.

Speaker 1 I mean, people said, well, Jonas crashed early in the season, but the truth of it is Jonas's times were pretty remarkable this year. I mean, he seemed to put out very good numbers.

Speaker 1 So it seemed to be just as much a function of you riding even better this year than Jonas coming in injured as much as he was. Do you feel that that's the case?

Speaker 2 Jonas had a big injury this year. I don't know how exactly his recovery went because they kept it quite quiet.

Speaker 2 When he once got on the bike, I think he could start immediately training quite normal now for sure at first, a little by little, but I think it affects on a three-week stage race.

Speaker 2 It affects that preparation. And yeah, you don't have the capacity to go three weeks.

Speaker 2 You have the power, like 10 minutes best power output or 5 minutes, 20 minutes you can do one day, but then maybe your body is not used to go another day and all.

Speaker 2 So I think that was the case with Jonas this year. He had a great power, he got great numbers, but then maybe he lacked this three week extent to perform.

Speaker 1 I feel like every cycling fan just feels that we have this incredible treat where we have both of you as these remarkable cyclists. You're both so young.

Speaker 1 We're going to have many more years of you guys racing each other. Do you feel you're going to continue to race the tour for many, many more years?

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, people are saying, look, you could break every record here. You could break the five tours, the seven tours.
I mean, you could do it all.

Speaker 1 Is it your intention to keep riding Grand Tours and specifically the Tour de France?

Speaker 2 Tour de France is the biggest race of cycling. So, yeah, to keep being on the top, you need to do Tour de France.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think battling between me and Jonas, pushing each other, and always the tour is the test who is is better now of that year.

Speaker 2 And I think I will keep on riding the tour until once I don't enjoy this stress anymore. Maybe I hung up the bicycle in a garage or somewhere.

Speaker 1 Something seemed different in you this year. You seemed stronger.
What changed in your training between twenty three and twenty four?

Speaker 2 Well, I didn't change only

Speaker 2 training uh on the bike. I also implement core training more and more outside of the bike stuff.
I got more into the details of nutrition as well.

Speaker 2 I'm getting older, so yeah, I'm not so obsessed anymore with just going cake on cake or just eating shit now.

Speaker 1 Wait, does that mean that five years ago you weren't paying much attention to your nutrition and you were kind of eating as much as you wanted?

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. When you're a kid, you can eat what you want and you don't gain fat.
I mean, you don't gain too much because you're evolving, you're growing up.

Speaker 2 When you're a kid, you can eat what you want.

Speaker 1 So you're at the age right now, because you're going to be 26 in a week. Yeah.
Do you need to watch your weight in the offseason now?

Speaker 2 I mean, my

Speaker 2 whole year looks more or less the same. I never restrict too much or I never say, okay, I cannot eat cake or I cannot eat chocolate, but all in measurements.

Speaker 2 when the time is right. Because if you restrict too much and you don't touch chocolate for a month or for six months, then one time you will break and you will go crazy.

Speaker 2 No, and I think that's not a good relationship with food, so you need to have balance also with the bad food. Also, no, then when it comes off-season, I don't have the cravings.

Speaker 2 I'm like, okay, now I go vacation, I have nice food, good food, quality food, and not crazy amounts, so I don't gain so much weight.

Speaker 1 What's the heaviest you'll be in the off-season? 70?

Speaker 2 No, like 69, Maybe seventy after when you wake up after party or something, when

Speaker 2 our like big, big dinner with birthday party or something, no, when you eat just a lot, but that's just also

Speaker 2 a lot of times just water weight or something. But around sixty nine would be maximum, maximum.

Speaker 1 Do you have a sense of how many grams of carbohydrate you can drink in an hour when you're training?

Speaker 2 You mean drink or eat both.

Speaker 1 Total amount of carbohydrate.

Speaker 2 In drink we have either thirty grams or sixty grams in per bottle.

Speaker 1 Not a strong dilution then.

Speaker 2 No, I I honestly I like 30 grams of grams because then I can eat more. But when it's a hard stage, it's better having 60 grams in a bottle and then you can eat less.

Speaker 2 I mean, still, no, because for hard stages, you need to get around 120 grams per hour. For easier stages, from 60 to 90 is enough.
So basically, we aim for that per hour.

Speaker 1 Was that easy for you to get to, or did you have to train your gut to be able to eat that much?

Speaker 2 At first, it seemed like five years ago, 120 grams per hour, that's impossible. But with good food, with good nutrition.

Speaker 1 What do you like to eat and drink?

Speaker 2 We have a sponsor, Enerid, with our nutritionists. He designed really good gels and the drink that's easy on the gut.
Since they created this product, I don't have any stomach problems.

Speaker 2 Five years ago, I would always go shit my pants after the stage races or long races. And now, even eating 120 grams, no stomach problems.

Speaker 1 And do you think that's more because you've gotten used to it or do you think it's more because your nutritionist has figured out a recipe that works for you guys?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it needs to be a good ratio between glucose, fructose and all other stuff in the gels. And it needs to be good quality of what's inside.
So you get used to it for sure.

Speaker 1 When you're training right now, I don't mean right now, I mean, when you're preparing, say, for the tour. How do you define your energy systems?

Speaker 1 You define them more by heart rate, by power, by how you feel? What are you using?

Speaker 2 I've been training with heart rate monitor since I'm, I don't know, 12 years old, 10 years old.

Speaker 2 So I would say I know how my heart rate responds when I'm tired or when I'm good.

Speaker 2 So yeah, I could go by heart rate only. But it's always good to compare heart rate to power.
But power meters are not so reliable these days, I would say. Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Which one do you guys use? SRM?

Speaker 2 We have a Shimano power meter. Yeah, you always need to be careful with the temperatures of the outside, the calibration, everything.
And yeah, sometimes it can be off.

Speaker 2 You need to be careful about this. In my experiences, yeah, the best is to train on your home roads, where you can also look at the speed, the VAM, how fast you're moving.

Speaker 1 What kind of VAM are you able to reach when you're training?

Speaker 2 On uh training, seven seven and a half percent. If you go all out, I think it's like seventeen hundred to eighteen hundred of them for like fifteen minutes.

Speaker 1 That's just incredible. I know that people listening might not appreciate that.
I'm not going to take time to explain what VAM is. If they know what it is, they understand how crazy that is.

Speaker 1 If they don't, they can look it up. I'm happy when I hit a thousand, by the way.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just for comparison.

Speaker 2 But uh yeah, it depends on the gradient. No, but what I was trying to say is you're using these other metrics.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You see all these three things, the speed, heart rate and power, then you see how you feel and in which zone are you really in.

Speaker 1 And how much of your time are you spending at a low intensity, whether we call it zone two, whether we just call it aerobic?

Speaker 1 How much of your total training time would be in that zone and not burning matches?

Speaker 2 I love riding zone two. Yeah, around where I live in Monaco, it's really hard to get big time in zone two because it's a lot of climbing and then you have all the downhills.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't maintain power.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I try to hit really high zone 2 on the climbs. They are like 20 to 40 minutes long, and then you recover and downhill.

Speaker 2 But when I go home to Slovenia or somewhere else, or in Spain, when we're training in Calpe or somewhere, where it's more flat, I really like to stay five hours in zone two.

Speaker 1 True zone two.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and some trainings I would love to do just zone two and going non-stop.

Speaker 1 What is your heart rate at zone two? Approximately?

Speaker 2 When I'm fatigued, it's 140, 145. When I'm a bit more fresh, around 150 to 155.

Speaker 1 And how many watts are you putting out at that heart rate?

Speaker 2 320 to 340.

Speaker 1 Again, I know it's just hard for people who are listening to us to understand what that means.

Speaker 1 320 to 340 watts for five hours, keeping lactate below two, keeping heart rate at 140 is really remarkable.

Speaker 2 That's also another thing. No, in Monaco, on the climbs where I can recover after, you cannot look zone 2 and say this is your zone 2 because you did two 10 minutes test on this power.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you're doing 5 hour ride, your zone 2 after 5 hours maybe not be your zone 2 anymore.

Speaker 2 You always need to know at what time this zone 2 will not be your zone 2 anymore because on the flat you will not recover and 5 hours of riding of 320 to 340 for me is also next day I'm not riding the bike.

Speaker 2 So when I go on flat for longer, I drop power to 290 to 300.

Speaker 1 Do you track your heart rate or heart rate variability in the morning? Do those numbers give you any indication of how you're going to train that day or race?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I started this in 2020 at first.

Speaker 2 I was especially in COVID time, lockdown this. Me and my girlfriend, we were doing that, but yeah, I did not find it really

Speaker 2 interesting or helpful. But this year I started using more to track HR V heart rate in the night and

Speaker 2 yeah, I must say that I quite like it now to track it. But yeah, it's not something that it can be misleading.

Speaker 1 It can get in your head a little bit and you don't want it to tell you how you're gonna train that day.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it can be misleading.

Speaker 1 It's almost better for somebody else to look at it and tell you after.

Speaker 2 Well my girlfriend she had a really good method for a while, especially in races.

Speaker 2 She don't open in the morning, she opened it after the race, so she checked uh after the race what was her heart rate variability in the morning, not in the the morning. If it would be really low,

Speaker 2 and then would mess with the race.

Speaker 1 How much variation when you do look at your heart rate variability, how much variation do you have between a high day and a low day of HRV?

Speaker 2 On a really good day, I would say my HRV would be, I don't know, 120, 130. Maximum, some days can pick up to 150.
Wow. On the lower end, it would be also, I don't know, 35 could be

Speaker 1 a. Is that from drinking alcohol the night before maybe?

Speaker 2 Okay. In the races, in the tour, for example, Ngiro was quite steady, around from eighty to one hundred ten was like average.

Speaker 1 Wow. Every day.
That's pretty amazing. And then resting heart rate, do you care at all about that? Or how much heart rate range do you have? So what's the lowest you're gonna be at?

Speaker 1 And then what is your maximum heart rate now versus five years ago?

Speaker 2 The lowest I hit since I'm tracking, I think was thirty seven. My average I would say is like in the night, I think forty-three, forty-two.

Speaker 2 But some days I could woke up with forty-eight, forty-nine. If you're sick or really fatigued, maybe even over fifty.

Speaker 2 The max heart rate, yeah, when I was junior, I could hit two hundred thirteen, but was shorter races.

Speaker 1 And so now, for example, like

Speaker 2 yesterday, two hundred and three, so it was still pretty high. So I'm pretty happy about it.

Speaker 1 How often do you guys test VO2 Max?

Speaker 2 It's been a while since I tested the last time VO2 Max. Yeah.
Yeah, interesting. Probably it's high.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to bet it's pretty high, yeah. Do you do an FTP test out of season just as a way to track it, like a true 20-minute test?

Speaker 2 True 20-minute tests. Also, it's been a while since I've done one.
I did this year fatigue test when you repeat eight minutes of one power. I mean, going higher and higher power and then also all out.

Speaker 2 Normally we do home trainer test in the camp in December. It's long from one hour to one hour 30.
Depends how long you want to test to which zone you want to test.

Speaker 2 But yeah, normally around 1 hour 20 for me, 10 minute steps on the home trainer. And every five minutes you take like that from the year to check for the zones.

Speaker 2 And I like to do it also at home with my girlfriend. One time I do for her.

Speaker 1 You see you test each other.

Speaker 2 We test each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for people listening, your girlfriend is obviously a very competitive professional cyclist as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you guys have kids one day, look out.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 2 I don't want to put them in cycling, though.

Speaker 1 Well, that would be a good idea, actually, because they would probably have a very hard time filling their parents' shoes. So they should pick up another sport.

Speaker 2 They could be better even, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, changing topics for a second.

Speaker 1 If we just think about three of the most epic climbs in the Tour de France, well, for me, I would say Vantou, Alp Duaise, Golibier, but what what would be the most epic climbs?

Speaker 1 And what I really want to know is how do they compare in difficulty?

Speaker 1 Assuming you're equally fresh on all days, like same situation, if you have to race up each, pick those three, if I said Ventu, Golibier, and Alp duaise.

Speaker 2 Well, of those three, Galibier is the easiest. Then I would say Ventu,

Speaker 2 second. No, Alp Douais, second, and Ventu would be the hardest.
I think it's the hardest, yeah. Also, because of the nature.

Speaker 1 Because of the wind at the top and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 Wind, heat can be no.

Speaker 2 yeah alpdoes it's hard but i think it's shorter and gallibay is it depends where it is in the stage too yeah also this from brian's own side is like dragging up in the valley and then when you turn right i mean it's quite high altitude but it's still quite a regular climb from the other side you have telegraph and then small downhill and climbing again but it's like these are calls from Alps.

Speaker 2 They're all more or less the same. Gallibay call upon it.
These are almost identical climbs, so you're used to those. Albdoes is just mythical.
You have way harder climbs than Albdoes for sure.

Speaker 1 What is the hardest climb, you think, in the modern tour?

Speaker 2 For me, uh, personally, uh, Colo Rose would be the hardest. I think everybody would agree on this.

Speaker 1 Well, you had a very difficult day there in 23. Yeah.
That was what, stage 18?

Speaker 2 Was it the queen stage? Yeah, it was uh stage 17, I think, or 16. But yeah, I did it twice and first time, okay, I did good, but then I felt really tired after it was really exhausting climb.

Speaker 2 And yeah, last year was we did Loze and then small downhill and to Altiport in what's called this town Kushvell.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this was brutal. This is something about you today that is very

Speaker 1 interesting. I've never seen a cyclist who in defeat is so gracious and it's clear that you're upset, but you demonstrate.
I mean, I remember after that stage, you just thanked your team.

Speaker 1 You just said, Thank God I had a great team around me today, or I would have come off the podium. That's remarkable sportsmanship.
But how are you able to do that?

Speaker 1 If I put myself in your shoes, I would just be so pissed off. I wouldn't even want to talk to the media.
Like, I would just want to be locked in the trailer, you know?

Speaker 2 It's not individual sport, it's the team sport. And the guys sacrificed everything to be there in the tour to help one guy to win the tour.

Speaker 2 In this day, we could really see how the guys reacted to me when when I dropped. They helped me,

Speaker 2 they support me emotionally, physically, whatever.

Speaker 2 It really felt like I let them down and I was feeling just, yeah, I was devastated. I was upset, angry, but I couldn't change it.
No, so I just went with it.

Speaker 2 I was feeling down, but yeah, you cannot change nothing. And then, yeah, when we had dinner with the guys, it was already better, and they really helped me through that days.

Speaker 1 What did you think about after the 23 tour? You'd now come in second twice.

Speaker 1 And my guess is there were people out there saying, hey, maybe this guy isn't the next Eddie Mercks. I'm sure you don't care about that, whether you're the next Eddie Mercks or not.

Speaker 1 But how did you think about that? And how did it motivate you over the winter coming into 2024 where you set off on this, again, very aggressive schedule to win huge races going into the tour?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's frustrating. It was frustrating.
Yeah, I was anxious.

Speaker 2 I was stressed and I was not feeling great last year after the tour, but I evaluate what went wrong, what was the mistakes, what I can do better.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it all went back to the crash from Liesch preparation to the tour and everything else. It was uh it built up everything and yeah.

Speaker 1 Psychologically, I mean, did you have to get some confidence back? I mean, did you yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 I got some confidence back already on stage 20 when I win. Three days after that, World Championship was like just a small patch on the wound, I would say.

Speaker 2 Third place, great racing, but it didn't feel enough. And then,

Speaker 2 yeah, winning Lombardy was really

Speaker 2 big for me last year.

Speaker 1 Again, for just for people listening who might not understand that there are these five huge classic races, that normally the people who win the Tour de France do not win those races, and vice versa.

Speaker 1 This is a totally different sport. It's sort of like, I don't know, the person who wins the marathon winning the 10K.

Speaker 1 I mean, even though it's not even remotely the right comparison, but yes, they're both on a bike, but it's different. And you've now won three of the five classics.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, Lombardy is the closest one that Grand Tour winner can win. The other four,

Speaker 2 they're really unlikely. Maybe Liège-Baston Liège, but also it's really hard for Grand Tour contender to win those races.

Speaker 1 Perry Roubé still.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Perry Roubé. And San Remo.
Samuel, yeah. Yeah.
San Remo is the one that's going to send me to grave, I have a feeling.

Speaker 1 You're gonna die trying to win that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, probably. I'm getting so close, but it's yet so far, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 To be clear, this is a goal. You wanna win all five?

Speaker 2 I wanna win first world championships, San Remo, and then we can see if there's a space for Rube or not.

Speaker 1 Not to discount it, but the Vuelta.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 Vuelta, uh, my first Grand Tour now in twenty nineteen, the podium was breakthrough for me with three stages, white jersey, and I want to come back and seal the deal with the red jersey for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I think you will. Try.

Speaker 1 What about the Olympics? Where does that rank on your goals?

Speaker 2 Well, it's in Los Angeles in four years. I really hope for a nice burcourse.
Again, climbing barkours like was in Tokyo or even harder. Yeah, we'll see when they announce it how eager I will be.

Speaker 2 But Olympics in cycling is...

Speaker 1 It's hard timing, right on the heels of the tour.

Speaker 2 You know, for other sports, in some other sports, they train four years just for Olympics, and then this is the peak of career.

Speaker 2 And in cycling, the peak of your career needs to be tour de France every year.

Speaker 1 It's not as high a priority as winning the worlds, obviously.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1 Do you watch, have you seen any of the Netflix series? Netflix has done the two specials on the tour. Have you ever watched them?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I watched the first season I didn't watch. The second season I watched because I was in a training camp.

Speaker 1 I didn't have anything better to watch but yeah for people like us when we are there now it's not so fun to watch it's fun for me to be able to watch it with my wife or with friends if they're not cycling fans so they're not gonna watch the tour with me and stuff like that one of the things that people who don't watch cycling and frankly people like me who do still cannot believe is how you guys are able to ride while fans are encroaching the roads.

Speaker 1 What's the closest call you've had with a fan?

Speaker 2 First, yeah, the fans are amazing. When I was a kid, I always wanted that feeling to ride through the group of fans like this, and now I enjoy it the most.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the closest I've been, I don't know, in Code Aloza was in 2020 was some close calls. With Slovenian fan.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but normally you need to watch the flags.

Speaker 2 The flags are really tricky one because they are waiting in the middle of the road and they move it the last time and sometimes they move differently the flag and when i'm watching this with my wife she gets so mad at the tv she's like get out of the way get out of the way i mean she's screaming at the tv for the fans to move she's so upset yeah i think they help i think they help so i was going to say the opposite because i try to put myself in a cyclist's shoes and i feel like i would subconsciously be holding back a little bit for fear of hitting them not that you're worried about hitting them but worried about falling because you're hitting them you do sometimes let off the throttle a little bit especially like if you attack or something and you're in the zone, you feel like you're pushing all the wads that you can, but then when you see the fence, I don't know, you maybe let off a little bit, but it's still high power, I would say.

Speaker 2 But also because when the adrenaline

Speaker 2 adrenaline is so high and the noise is incredible, the noise is so loud and you're just riding and you don't actually lose any momentum and it's crazy. It's hard to describe.

Speaker 1 I can't imagine actually. It looks like one of the craziest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 This year in the tour, I was very surprised that certain commentators were almost expressing disappointment when you were winning stages after you had already secured the yellow jersey.

Speaker 1 Did any of that make it to you? And if so, does that mean anything to you that people are saying he shouldn't be winning so much?

Speaker 2 I actually don't see so many people saying he shouldn't win so much. Okay, the ones that hate me, they will say that, but obviously they hold something against me.
It's normal.

Speaker 2 But even the people that are neutral and this don't say it that I should hold back, I shouldn't win so much.

Speaker 2 It's just the media and the commentators and journalists, they like to say these things just so they can.

Speaker 1 Have something controversial to say.

Speaker 2 But I really don't see so much. controversy in this because also for me in some stages a lot of stages i count the other day how many stages.
I win 12 stages in Grand Tours this year.

Speaker 2 And I think we control to win. And that I won was seven stages.
So it's just a little bit more than half, no? So it's not so bad.

Speaker 1 Do you even think about equaling or bettering the mark now of Mercks and Cavendish in tour stage wins?

Speaker 2 I don't want to think so much ahead. Just because you never know when is your last win, no?

Speaker 1 That's why you take every win.

Speaker 2 Yeah. if it's there, you take it.
If you enjoy, you feel good, you go for the stage, you win, no, unless it's there some other reason.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I mean, 36 or how much?

Speaker 1 34 or 36 or something?

Speaker 2 35 stages from Cavendish is just crazy. And

Speaker 2 yeah, it's incredible achievement. Yeah, I don't want to think so much ahead.
I want to go from tour to tour and see how I feel and what can I do now.

Speaker 1 Have you met Eddie Mercks? I assume you have.

Speaker 1 Yeah, i did i met him uh few times one time more closely but that was uh now already three years ago yeah we met for dinner and yeah it was nice there's a great book about him called half man half bike it's one of my favorite books about cycling and it's kind of the story of his life and career it's just amazing i'm sure you would enjoy it because it gives you an appreciation for how could a guy win all of these races like what you're doing right you're winning grand tours he's winning the one day classics And then, of course, in 1972, to just obliterate the one-hour world record, a record that would stand for 12 years.

Speaker 1 And even 12 years later, when it was broken by Francesco Moser, I mean, it was using completely new arrow equipment and stuff, whereas Mercks did it on a simple bike.

Speaker 1 I've read certainly that Mercks has considered you truly the second coming of him. That must mean a lot to you.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't know how to respond to that, but yeah, for sure, he was one of the greatest, especially at his time this was yeah it was incredible and how he won the races and i never saw any of his racing but uh yeah just uh when you read his palmares it's just uh unbelievable and yeah it's something that you cannot imagine in this era to achieve so i don't think it's possible to do the same what he did no but yeah it's different cycling now do you think that the one hour record is something you would even entertain in terms of like making the effort for it and training for it, setting aside time?

Speaker 2 I was until, yeah, Ghana did it. And then Bingham, I think he did also before

Speaker 2 people.

Speaker 2 Before that time, I would consider it now not so much. I mean, Ghana was fast, really.
He did incredible.

Speaker 1 What is the difference between your power when you are climbing, so your femurs are not kinked down, versus when you're in a time trial position.

Speaker 1 How many watts do you lose being in a time trial position for the same period of time?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I'm still trying to figure this one out actually.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I see that I have one time trial. I have some good days and some bad days.

Speaker 2 I'm not so consistent as on a road bike, but when it matters, I can push more or less the same numbers on the TT bike as on the road bike.

Speaker 2 It's coming all along now with biomechanics, Vintana testings, and so many trainings, so many intervals doing that you're trying to figure out the best position to be possible to do this power.

Speaker 1 You mentioned that you did some more strength work in the offseason coming into 24 as part of the reason why you seemed even stronger than before, which is hard to imagine.

Speaker 1 Were you doing any strength training for your legs? Were you doing any weights?

Speaker 2 Yeah, a little bit weights. I'm still doing the strength training throughout the season, but with less weights.

Speaker 1 But yeah, still

Speaker 2 legs core glutes hips and this is for me personally is important yeah not anymore but did you ever used to when you were growing up run or swim or do any other endurance sports we were younger in our team in ljublana in the winter we were running up the mountain three four times per week after school we had meeting training meeting and we go this mountain that was close by and we go two three times up down that was it we swam also a few years one time per week for one hour or something yeah we tried different sports in the winter and cross-country skiing this is my favorite yeah running on the flat not so much but now i try in the last two years i tried to put running also into off-season really i tried to start in off season and i tried to keep it as long as possible into season but didn't work out this year So in your off-season, what is the most days you'll go without being on a bike at all?

Speaker 1 No stationary bike, no outdoors?

Speaker 2 Well, stationary bike is no go for me anyway, especially in off-season. I don't do it.
But yeah, I don't know. We have a team camp in UAE.
It's like six days.

Speaker 2 But yeah, last year, for example, we went with the boys run together in Abu Dhabi two times and playing paddle.

Speaker 2 something so and then going off to vacation then on vacation you get bored you go for a run or playing paddle or whatever again or swimming and i cannot say that i do two weeks without a bike or without any training at all because i really enjoy doing other stuff and other sports so yeah maybe three days doing nothing then one day you do something and then maybe three days again nothing and but then mid-november always starting on a bike road bike again How old were you when you realized you were going to be or you knew you wanted to be a professional cyclist?

Speaker 2 I was a junior, so 16, 17 years, 17 years old when I thought that I have a chance to be professional, to be in the World Tour team.

Speaker 2 But yeah, second year juniors, I realized that I can definitely be in World Tour. And then when I come to under 23, I already signed with UAE team pre-contract for 2019, so two years after.

Speaker 1 Well, Teddy, I have a million more questions I could ask you, but I know you've got a team meeting shortly. I want to make sure you get to that on time.

Speaker 1 I want to make sure you get a good dinner and have a great race tomorrow.

Speaker 1 And above all else, I mean, really, we're just, I think everybody's kind of excited to see you at the Worlds in a couple of weeks. And

Speaker 1 again, not to put pressure on you, but just so people understand the significance of that, to be able to win two grand tours in a year is really unprecedented.

Speaker 1 If there's a chance to add a world title to that, it's kind of unbelievable.

Speaker 1 And at the other end of that, Should it not happen this year, given that you're not yet 26, I think most people would take the bet that you're going to have another shot at that yeah but the sooner we get it over the better it is there is no more pressure yeah i love it well thank you tadi thank you so much

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