Masculinity and Volunteering, Is Narcissism Productive? and Bouncing Back After a Layoff

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Speaker 6 Welcome to Office Hours with ProvG. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind.

Speaker 6 Just a reminder, you can now catch office hours every Monday and Friday. That's right, two episodes a week.

Speaker 6 If you'd like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to officehours at prof2media.com. Again, that's officehours at prof2media.com.

Speaker 6 Or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in our next episode. First question.

Speaker 6 Our first question comes from the relevant elephants on Reddit. God, the best names in the world.
They ask.

Speaker 6 Hey, ProfG, you said mandatory service could help the nation's loneliness epidemic. I volunteer at animal rescues in LA,

Speaker 6 and I'm literally the only man there. I've asked on Reddit how to get get more men involved and the top answers were that's a woman's job or I don't have time.

Speaker 6 I don't buy that and I don't think you do either. So how do we reach these men? How do we convince them that volunteering is masculine and actually good for their social lives too?

Speaker 6 First off, thanks for doing that.

Speaker 6 I feel a little bit self-conscious lecturing about volunteering because I give a lot of money away, but I don't give much of my time away.

Speaker 6 I like to think that I'm generous with everything but my time. So occasionally I'll do some volunteer work or spend time with young men, but

Speaker 6 I I don't show up to food kitchens and shit like that. And I should, I just, I don't know, lazy, selfish.
So I don't want to lecture people about it.

Speaker 6 What I would say is that I had Dan Harris on the pod, and he writes about anxiety and purpose. Very thoughtful guy.
He has a really wonderful podcast called 10% Happier.

Speaker 6 And he, a couple of things that he said really stuck with me is that one, action absorbs anxiety.

Speaker 6 If you are, I have someone in my life right now that has like crazy tooth pain and is worried it's something with her head, had a head injury.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, okay, let's get you in to see a neurologist like tonight or tomorrow morning and a dentist.

Speaker 6 And immediately she felt better because action absorbs anxiety. If you're worried about something, just immediately move to action to try to address it and you're going to feel better.

Speaker 6 Also, the other thing you said, that a great way to sort of practice to sort of help you get out of a funk or depression is to help others. And that is, it gives you a sense of purpose.

Speaker 6 You get out, you meet other people,

Speaker 6 makes you feel important, makes you feel masculine.

Speaker 6 I think that if you're feeling down, getting out of your own head and start focusing on service, helping others, I think is

Speaker 6 a great way to kind of address maybe if you're feeling a little bit down or a little bit depressed. So I think volunteer work is an outstanding idea.

Speaker 6 In terms of how to get more people to volunteer at dog shelters, you know, I don't know, go on your social media feed and show all the cool dogs. And it's so funny.
It's funny you say that.

Speaker 6 I spoke at a conference in Palm Beach about three months ago, and we were talking, I was talking about mating and the dynamics of mating.

Speaker 6 And he came up to me, and he was this shorter guy, not unattractive, but not attractive, like not the kind of guy I would think would do well on dating apps.

Speaker 6 And he said that he met his wife at a dog shelter and that his wife, he claims, is much higher character and much hotter than him.

Speaker 6 But she was really drawn to him because of his kindness and his service, which I thought was actually pretty interesting. I do think, I'm trying to think how you appeal to dudes here.

Speaker 6 I do think it's probably a really good way to meet friends. And also, it's just a great rap at a bar.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 Well, when I was volunteering down at the, when Bosco, the rescue dog, who I was saving from the kill shelter, down at the animal shelter, I volunteer at.

Speaker 6 Anyways, I think it's probably a great way to meet friends. And I would say social media and these accounts, these rescue shelters having accounts and opportunities or

Speaker 6 calls to attention around opportunities to volunteer.

Speaker 6 And again, just more broadly, I think that a fantastic way to address mild depression or if you're feeling down is to get out of your own head and start serving in the agency of others.

Speaker 6 Thanks for your good work.

Speaker 6 Our second question comes from Red Legs05 on Reddit. They ask, Prop G,

Speaker 6 you joke about being a narcissist. I think most of us raised on social media are, but we rarely talk about it.
Maybe because if we're not successful, it just feels shameful.

Speaker 6 So how do you think narcissism fuels achievement or results from it? And would you ever delete your social accounts other than Twitter? You call them toxic.

Speaker 6 What's stopping you from actually logging off and signaling some virtue while you're at it? That's an interesting question.

Speaker 6 So a narcissist, I think, is someone who thinks, you know, looks out the window and sees themselves to an extent where they lack empathy and they can even become somewhat sociopathic because everything is just about them.

Speaker 6 They don't really make much of an effort or think, look through the lens of other people's emotions or success.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 I think I suffered from some of it, but I think even if someone states they're a narcissist, it probably means they aren't. And

Speaker 6 one thing that has

Speaker 6 having kids, working with people, having had some adversity in my life, having friends from different economic backgrounds, going to a public school where there were people from all different

Speaker 6 ethnicities and economic backgrounds, I think you're more inclined to become less of a narcissist. Is that true? What's the opposite of narcissism, empathy? I don't know.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 I think that some of the self-absorption I feel or vanity are also embers such that

Speaker 6 I want to be more successful. The affirmation or the approval of others and being impressive in other people's eyes is definitely a motivating force for me.

Speaker 6 And I think it's interesting to look at what motivates you around things. And my primary objective or purpose the first 40 years of my life was economic security, which is Latin for get more money.

Speaker 6 And why is that?

Speaker 6 One in a capitalist society, all the signals are trying to encourage you to make more money and be more productive such that you'll go out and buy more Chipotle and go to Disney World and fuel the economy.

Speaker 6 So every signal is, all right, how do you aggregate more money, more power? Well, if you aggregate more money and power, your kids are going to have more opportunity.

Speaker 6 You're going to be, men are going to laugh at your jokes. Women are going to want to have sex with you.
I mean, all of these things are pretty strong motivators in capitalist society.

Speaker 6 And so I very much bought into that. And also, in a capitalist society, you get to take care of your own when you have money.

Speaker 6 And my biggest source of stress growing up, and even into my 30s and 40s with kids, was feeling like I was economically vulnerable, whether it was investing in companies that were going poorly and worrying that I was failing my children, or really my first sort of fear.

Speaker 6 I had anxiety around money when I was a kid because me and my mom didn't have enough, but the real fear set in when my mom got very sick. And I felt those natural

Speaker 6 masculine protective instincts to try and take care of my mom. And it was very hard and humiliating because I wasn't able to do it at the level that I expected for myself.

Speaker 6 And so I figured out pretty fucking early, okay, money matters a lot. And I became very focused and that was

Speaker 6 that was my purpose. But as I got older, wanting to be loved, wanting to be, wanting to impress people, wanting to have relevance, all of that, I mean, that's a form.
Is that a form?

Speaker 6 I think that's more vanity than narcissism. But those things are very motivating.

Speaker 6 And I have thought somewhat to your second part of your question, I thought at some point, I'm just going to go dark off of social media. This is just so fucking stupid.
And I'm addicted.

Speaker 6 I don't have an addictive personality. I drink a lot of alcohol.
I don't do a lot of drugs. I do some THC, but I don't think I'm addicted to any of it.

Speaker 6 I'm one of the 95% of people who manage their substance and their professional and personal lives fairly well. Where I do have an addiction is I'm addicted to the the affirmation of others.

Speaker 6 I care too much about people who I will never meet or their opinion of me. And sometimes it gets in the way of

Speaker 6 what really matters, and that is the affirmation, love, empathy, and care of people who are close to me. You know, I work.

Speaker 6 I will trade off personal time for work because I want to impress people and I want to make more money. And then I do slow down and think, what the fuck am I doing?

Speaker 6 And I'll, there's a nice thing about money. God, I'm going off script here.
There's three buckets. There's things you want to do.

Speaker 6 I want to hang out with my kids and go to, you know, the, you know, the Arsenal game or Chelsea game or Spurs. We're a house divided.
How the fuck did we end up with three teams?

Speaker 6 Anyways, there's things you have to do, right? Jim Bankoff is going to be a can.

Speaker 6 He'll want to, he's, he's the CEO of Ox who distributes our podcast. He wants to get together.
I have to do that. And I say have to do that.
I also want to. I like Jim.

Speaker 6 He's actually a reasonably nice guy. And there's things you should do.

Speaker 6 I've been invited to all this shit at Cannes, that will be a bunch of people and it'll be good networking and good for my business.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, the great thing about having money is you can eliminate the should bucket. I no longer do shit I should.
No longer do shit I should. Oh my God, isn't that nice?

Speaker 6 I do think, though, that at some point I would like to go dark and just hang out with friends and maybe get involved in, I don't know.

Speaker 6 Trying to add more value on the nonprofit side, maybe write more, hang out somewhere beautiful and just wait for the ask answer.

Speaker 6 This whole social media thing, it definitely, after I do a lot of it, and it's so important, you've got to be on social if you want to market your product, have relevance. I get it.

Speaker 6 But at some point, I'm going to, you know, every time I spend more than a few hours on social media, I feel like I need to shower. It's like eating a big bag of Skittles.

Speaker 6 Like, oh God, was that a good idea?

Speaker 6 So, yeah, at some point, I will. But right now, still desperate for your affirmation.
Thanks for the question. We'll be right back after a quick break.

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Speaker 10 Sometimes, the difference between success and failure comes down to one chance encounter or following a counterintuitive instinct or ignoring conventional wisdom to make a bold decision.

Speaker 10 Like when the founders at Palo Alto Networks wanted to redefine cybersecurity for the modern age. Everybody thought we were crazy.
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Speaker 6 Welcome back to our final question from Tana on Reddit.

Speaker 6 Hey, Scott, I was laid off from my job three months ago, and I'm having a lot of trouble finding a new job. I work in tech as a product manager.

Speaker 6 It seems like a lot of white-collar workers are also having trouble in the current job market, especially in tech. What would you suggest are the best ways to go about regaining employment these days?

Speaker 6 Thanks in advance. I don't think there's a silver bullet here.

Speaker 6 The one thing I would correlate with a job search that sometimes people don't necessarily correlate with is

Speaker 6 one,

Speaker 6 it's okay to be vulnerable.

Speaker 6 I think especially men put up this front of, oh, yeah, I decided I didn't like them and I left and I'm fielding other offers when the reality is I got laid off and I really need help.

Speaker 6 Do you have any idea of anyone who's looking for a job? And I mean, you don't want to come across as desperate, but it's okay to be, yeah, got laid off looking for a job.

Speaker 6 Let me know if you know of any opportunities. Here's my CV.
This is the kind of role I'm looking for.

Speaker 6 And I think it's okay to call people who you're close with and say, if you have any ideas, or to call and say, what I tell people are looking for a job I'm close with.

Speaker 6 I probably, there's probably opportunities in my universe that I'm not thinking of if you want to meet someone at X company or you think, I had a friend of mine who is the chief revenue officer of a well-known tech company, but it's not working out.

Speaker 6 He doesn't like it. Call me and say, do you know anyone at Reddit? There's a job there.
And he forwarded me the job description. And it ends up, I do know someone at Reddit.

Speaker 6 So, one, don't be afraid to to ask for help. Two, every day, just a list of shit you're going to do.
Send out this many emails, go on LinkedIn, contact this many people.

Speaker 6 Success in anything is a small series of disciplined efforts every day, right?

Speaker 6 Working out every day, cutting back your food intake a little bit every day, sending nice messages to people every day, showing you care, saving a little bit of money every day.

Speaker 6 That is what success is,

Speaker 6 small acts of discipline every day.

Speaker 6 So every day before you go to bed or or in the morning, write up a list, do certain shit.

Speaker 6 Now, here's the thing I find that's most interesting about the job search dynamic: is that I love that study that came out of Google that when they post a job opening, they get immediately at 100 applications.

Speaker 6 They shut it down 20 minutes later or take it down. They invite in the 20 most qualified people.

Speaker 6 And then, 70% of the time, the person they ultimately end up making the offer to is someone who had an internal advocate, someone who already worked at Google who said, I know Lisa and she's fantastic.

Speaker 6 And trust me on this. Because here's the thing, most hiring managers have figured out interviews are fucking useless, literally fucking useless, or at least they are for me.

Speaker 6 I mean, occasionally someone comes in and you're like, no way. And occasionally someone comes in and blows your socks off.
I think we should try and find a way to hire this person.

Speaker 6 But anyways, I find the 80% in the middle just

Speaker 6 doesn't work. I've been fooled a lot in interviews, both to the upside and the downside.
So it's about reference hiring.

Speaker 6 If someone calls me, Ed Elson, who's the co-host of Property Markets, my friend Johanna Cole's called me and said, you must hire this young man. And I'm like, to do what?

Speaker 6 And she's like, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 6 And she's like, literally, I called him and said, I don't know who you are, but I've been told to hire you by someone I trust. So I hired him, and she was right.
He's great.

Speaker 6 So the key when you're hunting for a job in a general is to be as social as possible. Go out.

Speaker 6 Go out, meet as many people as possible, have fun, contact people, make as many contacts as possible, and let people know that you're looking.

Speaker 6 And it's in some, the most popular kids in high school aren't the best looking, the smartest, or the best athletes. They're the ones that like the most other people.

Speaker 6 So to a certain extent, networking and looking for a job is a popularity contest. And how do you become most popular and put yourself in a room of opportunities even when you're not physically in it?

Speaker 6 You like as many other people as possible. You're as social as possible.
So one, A series of small disciplined acts every day.

Speaker 6 Two, don't be afraid and let your ego get in the way of calling out or calling people and reaching out and asking you for help.

Speaker 6 And three, be as social as possible and let people know that you're looking for a job. Anyways, best of luck to you.
Thanks for the question.

Speaker 6 That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at propgmedia.com.
That's officehours at propgmedia.com.

Speaker 6 Or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in an upcoming episode.

Speaker 6 This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
Thank you for listening to the Props You Pop from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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