No Ads Needed: Kathryn Jones Lish on Mastering Joint Partnerships

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What's up everybody? It's Russell. Welcome back to the Selling Online or the Marketing Secrets podcast, depending on when you are listening to this.
We just finished recording a really cool episode about one of my favorite things to talk about, one of the things that are probably the, I'd say one of the least used marketing tactics of today. And it's the marketing tactic we use to grow ClickFunnels.
A lot of people know we didn't buy any ads in ClickFunnels for the first two years. We grew our businesses, the business from zero to over $10 million a year completely through joint ventures and partnerships.
And I'm lucky enough that this week we've got Catherine Jones Lish. No, Catherine.
I almost just messed up here in the office. It's been a long week going live every single day.
But she's here and she's someone who is one of my favorite people to talk about joint ventures with. And so we just finished a really cool conversation about that.
So if you want more traffic, you want more sales, you don't want to pay Mark Zuckerberg or Dan's on TikTok or anything, but you want to get a lot of traffic into your offer, selling your products and services. You are going to love this conversation about how to do joint ventures.
So with that, so let's jump right into the podcast. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars of my own products and services online.
This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.
All right, so I'm back right now with the second of our interviews today with Katherine Jones-Lish. I almost keep forgetting to say the last name.
I'm so sorry. I worked really hard for that last name.
I searched high and low, the amount of dating apps. Let me have it, okay? Come on.
We should cut out Jones then. It's Catherine Lish.

That seems easier to say.

I know, but here's the thing.

I was Catherine Jones for too long, but I have to have it.

It's true.

And I used to always think Catherine Zeta Jones.

That's how I never forget it.

My nickname in middle school was Zeta.

So I'm telling you what, I'm open to it.

I'm here today with Zeta, and we're going to go deep into a new topic.

No, we did a podcast interview a little bit ago.

So those of you listening to the podcast, it was our last episode probably. But this one, we're going to go on a different angle.
We talked about selling sales funds last time, uh, which is one of the genius things you are genius at. But the second thing I want to talk about is actually joint ventures and partnerships and things like that.
And I wanted to talk about this for a couple of reasons. And I'll kind of caveat this right now.
It's just so you have some context of why this is fascinating in my head right now. But when I got started in this business way back in the day, we did not have Facebook.
We did not have, uh, Instagram. We didn't have TikTok.
We didn't have any of the social platforms. In fact, um, I remember when I was in college, the very first social platform I was aware of was called Friendster.
Do you remember Friendster? I don't even know. I don't know what that is.
Friendster. And I remember people freaking out Like, you can go.
You can find friends. You can connect.
And that was a big thing.

And then everyone was blowing up.

There was this huge viral sensation.

And then from there, this new company came and disrupted it called MySpace.

And everyone was like, we're leaving Friendster to go to MySpace.

And everyone was on MySpace.

So, like, this is, like, where I got on the internet, right?

And you couldn't buy ads on MySpace or Friendster.

You could buy Google ads.

That was, like, the one thing.

We were buying Google ads.

There was this guy named Chris Carpenter who wrote a book called Google Cash. and it was insane.
Um, this is like this insert my potato gun story here. Cause like you read Google cash and it was basically like you go to Google and you buy an ad and you say, you pay five cents a click and then you make, you know, a dollar over here and you could do an affiliate offers or anything.
So everybody who read that book got rich. It was like 100% success stories.
If you read that book, cause it was so simple. It was just like the perfect time, the perfect demand.
The algorithms, the prices were cheap. The algorithm worked.
And so like you'd go to ClickBank, you'd find any offer. You'd pick it up.
You go to Google. You buy an ad.
And it was just free money. And so everyone met.
It was just crazy. I'm new with potato guns.
I'm new with everything. Like we're all doing that.
And it was insane. I was like this.
I'm the smartest person on the planet. Like I thought I was genius, right? And then came came the horrible Google slap.
Right. And it shifted and all of a sudden all the prices change.
And, um, and that point forward, uh, advertising online just got hard. And most people I knew were making a ton of money disappeared.
I never saw them again. And there's been these waves have happened throughout, um, man, the 25 years I've been playing this game where homes you make much money and then something changes and they all disappear.
And then, and so I've been on this, this cycle for a long time. Um, anyway, uh, so for me, like, because the Google slap, I got so scared.
Like I started trying to figure out how else can you get traffic and we didn't have other places to buy ads from. So 100% of my traffic for the next decade and a half ish came from joint ventures from partnerships.
And we used to go to internet marketing events. And when you go to these events, all the speakers, all we talked about were how to do joint ventures and partnerships.
And that's what all the conversations were. There were no conversations on funnel building, no conversations on traffic or SEO or Facebook or anything.
All we talked about were joint ventures and partnerships. And that's how we all got traffic back then.
And then what happened is this thing called Facebook came out and it got easier to get Zuckerberg to send you traffic than to talk to somebody else and have to build an actual physical relationship and talk to people. And so everyone switched to Facebook ads, and that became the thing.
And then I saw the Facebook slaps have happened over the decades and same kind of thing. But what's fascinating is last year, so I have my inner circle, and we have a $50,000 a year level, $150,000 a year level, 000 a year level 250 000 a year level everyone was in this room and i got up and i did a presentation on joint ventures and of all the things like in my mind this is like a simple thing and people's eyes were popping they were going nuts people like wait a minute you're saying we can get traffic and not have to pay zuckerberg money you're saying we can like, and I was like, this is so fascinating for me.

Like for the first decade of my business, this is all we ever talked about.

And no one talks about it now.

And so I want to have this conversation because, uh, I don't remember which funnel hack, two funnel hacking lives ago.

I had you come and speak on, on joint ventures.

And of the 20 some odd years that I've been doing joint ventures and teaching and talking

about it, that was the best presentation I've ever seen.

So I'm not just saying that to like, cause you're sitting here. I said that at the back of the room I was watching, I'm like, this is insane.
Um, and it was amazing. So, um, I want to talk about that now.
Um, I'm going to, so this, that's the longest intro of a podcast. I'll take it.
I mean, it's making me feel good about myself. So keep going.
What else do you have to say about me? That's the best speech you've ever heard. What else? And then, again, my first meeting you, I was like watching you do your design hacking.
That was the world. And all of a sudden you started this campaign.
And I remember it was such a good campaign. I was literally messaging them like, what are you doing? And you were talking about this sunroom and this house you bought and these things.
You're changing everything. And I was so engaged in this launch that you were doing.
I didn't know what it was. And, um, and so I know that it became a lot of this joint venture thing.
So I'd love for you to lead with like telling your sunroom story and the transition. And then, and then let's dive into like the actual mechanics of these joint ventures, how we can get traffic and things like that.
Yes. Okay.
Well, maybe I can say this cause I don't know who's coming to this podcast. Like, and I guess I think, well, just don knowing you attract like very, very beginnings and you attract like the $250,000 a year people.
And even the $250,000 a year people, like you said, they're like eyes are going big because they don't even know what a joint venture is. Because sometimes you hear about it and it's like, oh, like, are you getting VC Monday? Are you like acquiring the whole thing? And the answer is no.
Like what a joint venture is, is you have one party that has a product and one party that has an audience And you both agree to launch that together. So ultimately, the person with the product pitches into that person's audience.
And so one person supplies product, one person supplies audience, and then you split it 50-50. So anyway, so yeah.
So how I got started with this was, like you said, like I had built this course all about how to design funnels. But I didn't have a way to get traffic to it when I first started.
I'd only made 20 sales. I was living in my dorm room, literally in a shared room.
I had like an Ikea bunk bed where you had like the bed on top and the desk underneath. And like, I would like try to face my camera so you couldn't see the top of the bed.
Like that's where I was at. I'd made 20 sales and I was like just trying to figure it out.
And I, um, uh, anyway, and so I could like sell funnels, but I didn't know I was trying to learn how to sell a product still, you know, like for my own and the nuances of all. Anyway, but, um, but, and I knew that my funnel works when I got people to it, people were buying because I was good at funnels, but I was like, I don't have money for ads.
Um, anyway, so long story short, I was like, I got to figure out how to give traffic to this dang thing. Cause if people get there, they're buying, but I was tired of, I was just like DMing people, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, I'm not, I don't want to like dance on social media. I like don't, didn't know how to do that.
Yeah. And honestly, nobody needs to see that.
And the next thing is I was like, SEO is really cool, but it takes too long. Facebook ads are risky because it costs too much.
And so like, though I like had money for my funnel building business, I was just like too afraid to like spend it on ads. Like I just, I was too scared.
And so I was like, I got to figure out how to get traffic to this thing. I had heard about this concept called joint ventures and on paper it's the sexiest thing in the world right like just find somebody with an audience and then just convince them to let you pitch your product to their group and then they don't have to do any fulfillment it's great for them and then you just split it 50 50 i'm like and you don't have to pay it's not like facebook where you're gambling ahead of time like i'm gonna give the money and hopefully make sales like it's like if we make sales and then you pay them a cut it's so awesome so zero dollars up front and then you only pay on the back end it is so sexy and then it's like yeah let's do it and you're like dot dot dot like what how what do you mean right and so like you go look at all the advice and it's like go like go to networking groups develop relationships with people blah blah and like very comparable to my other story i'm just like too impatient i'm like and i'm like i don't even what friends? Like make friends.
And then what? Like, that doesn't seem very friendly to me. Like, I'm going to make friends with you.
So that dot, dot, dot, you'll sell my product. Like it felt a little bit like to me.
Right. And I was like, I don't like that, but I, I could, I just like, I could see the math in it.
Right. Where I'm like, Oh, I could, if I can just find like, rather like, I, like the, the goal is always a million dollars.
Like make a million, make a million, make a million. So I sold 20 units of my $1,000 course.
I was at $20,000. So I was like, okay, I could either sell a thousand people into this course and just like pick them off one by one.
I was like, or if I just find like 10 people that let me pitch their group and I make a hundred sales per that, you know, it just was like numbers to me. It was like, I got to figure this out anyway.
And so, um, again, we'll go into the mechanics later, but long story short, I figured it out how to get people to say yes to me. And it was just the most amazing thing ever because I would go, I'd pitch into a group and it was a warm group.
Like people who trusted me because their group leader trusted me. So they'd be like, it's like, like this selling online event.
Like a lot of people don't know me from Adam, but they're like, because Russell says she's cool. She's cool.
And then all of a sudden people are like, she's the expert, but they don't even know who I am. And they're like, Russell said, right.
It was the same thing. You go to any group, Catherine's the best at this wobble.
And they're like, I don't know her, but he said, so sure. You know, so you go in and I would literally just do my webinar to them and we'd pitch it.
And then we'd get people into our program and we would just track the people that came and we'd sell on the backend. And it worked so well that I was like, why would I spend money on ads? So I just, and the beautiful thing about joint ventures is if they work once, they're going to work again.
Like if that audience liked it one time, they work again. And if you set it up the right way, then what we would do is we just set up a joint venture so that every six months to a year, we're just like going back to the same groups, which is even more awesome because you convert typically higher and higher on the following ones because the success stories that you show in your pitch are just success stories from that group.
So like, Hey, you don't believe me? No, I came here six months ago and for every single example I'm about to show you is from people in your group, every single example, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I loved it.
It was awesome. And, um, but the reality is I was like never intending to turn it into a product, which is seriously the same with funnel design.
It's like so funny. I just like run into a problem and I'm annoyed that everybody's answers take too long.
So I just like figure out a way to do it better. And, um, anyway, so I'm just doing this and I started having people ask me like it, cause it, when you look at the advice online, which is like, you kind of need to schmooze people.
Um, a long time that the advice was like, send people like gifts in the mail and then maybe you'll get their attention and maybe they'll talk to you. And you know, you're someone that gets a lot of gifts in the mail.
I don't get as many as you, but like, I literally got one two weeks ago or a week and a half ago and it was actually this really nice like picture of like Jesus and all this stuff it's like sweet because I love Jesus and I also I'm like I don't know who you are and I don't even know what you want to talk about like I mean what why like and so I'm like and it's like this like he looks like a middle-aged dude and I'm like I'm not gonna just like start a relationship with a middle-aged dude yeah like I don't know you like, but if he would have sent me a pro, like how I'll hopefully we'll talk about today. Like, hey, this is my intention in contacting you.
This is why I think it'd be awesome. I think we should partner together.
And I'm like, I understand exactly what you're talking to, the nature of the relationship, why this is going to be so cool. Dude, yeah, let's do it.
Anyway, but there's just so much false advice or just, I thought, ineffective advice on how to go about it. And so anyway, people are like, how are you getting other people to do that? And that was, I think, a lot of the reason and why how I got your attention is because like a lot of people in your inner circle were promoting my thing.
And so, so that we like didn't know each other when I did kind of like make my initial pitch to be like, hey, notice me, right? It wasn't like, who's this rando chick? I, I don't know. Maybe you could tell each other story, but I don't think it was.
And, um, anyway. And so, uh, long story short, people are like, how do you do this? So I'm just telling them, telling them, telling them in my systems, OCD brain is like very like methodical.
And so they're like, Oh my gosh, like, this is amazing. So like one friend would call another and then another con and all of a sudden that's like, Oh, I'm, I think I have a product here.
And the thing that's so cool is I kind of fell in love with it because I love my initial, like my first big product took off with CF Design School, you know, and I love that because it can take, it can allow anybody genuinely to make money online. It's so fun.
And you make money online by helping other people make money. It's just like this beautiful gift that keeps giving.
But I loved partnerships because there's just like this beautiful truth that you could do more together than you could do apart. and I just like I was just like this beautiful gift that keeps giving, but I loved partnerships because there's just like this beautiful truth that you could do more together than you could do apart.
And I just like, I was just like so meaningful for me to be like, oh my gosh, like because we decided to work together, there's a result that neither of us could do separately. And it was, it just like came alive to me.
And so I loved like that concept on how to work with people. But I also didn't know, like, I don't know.
I didn't know if it was just like, oh, I just had a good offer or like, oh, maybe I was charismatic. Like, I don't know.
And so I started teaching other people, but I for real wanted to see if my framework would work for other people. So enter this, this video you saw.
So my husband and I, we bought this house and we, it's a 1955 house and we loved it because the whole like the the the back thousand square feet of it that makes it sound like it's a huge house it's only a two thousand square foot house but half of it is glass and we were like we just like fell in love with this random house we literally like it is like in this like old cutie neighborhood we were obsessed with our neighbors but like you know when God's just like mind and heart it was like you were live here. And we like loved it.
So we took it and we're like, it'll be so romantic. We'll like redo the house.
It, I, it was romantic and it was insane. It was insanity.
Like I, I, my husband's like, let's do this again. I was like, should we, I don't know.
Maybe we can, but we can't live in it at the same time. It was like too crazy.
But, um, but so we have this house, but we finally finished the house and like, we were living in shambles. Like we stripped everything down to the floorboards, like everything.
So when, by the time we finally had a house, like it was the in shambles like we stripped everything down to the floorboards like everything so when by the time we finally had a house like it was the most amazing you're like is this the most beautiful house that has ever lit like i'm like i'll put up any mansion and you know when you like put something in it'd be so funny we'd like drive by like a huge house be like our house is better you know it's like so funny but anyway so we had the sunroom but again because we like ripped it to shambles like we had no furniture like and we're both coming from like we didn't have furniture anyway. So we had to like buy furniture to furnish the house.
So I was like, why don't I need to like prove that this joint venture concept is true. So why don't we just leave our house open? Because it was just like, it's basically like 2000 basically open square feet because we just like knocked down every wall.
And, um, and so it's kind of like an event center almost. I was like, why don't we just like have people pay to come here and i'll teach these concepts and i decided to do it because i really wanted to see if it worked so rather than people buying like hey come to my house one time they would buy like three sessions so they'd come one month month one month three and month five and then i had a second group that came on two four six and so i'd be so like in month one i'd be like okay this is what you need to do go do it and then month three how did it go then go do this and that.
And the whole purpose was to build an offer. And then can you actually go sell it via joint ventures? Anyway.
And so we called them sunroom sessions and likes, and so, um, this campaign that I like did was like, I'm burning everything to the ground. And so essentially it was just like, uh, like we're like, uh, I used to be the funnel girl.
Now we're starting on this venture. And the reason I still love funnels, but it was just, like, rolling.
You know, like, it was what it was. And you know your soul just calls to do other things.
So it was running. Like, we actually didn't have ads.
We were doing a job of ventures, too. But it was living its life, and it was fine.
It was like, it's ready to build, like, the next step of the value ladder. Anyway, and so I remember you messaged me.
You were like, don't. You're like, don't burn your message.
He's like, you could sell this. Like, you could sell, like, don't.
And I was like, don't worry. I'm not selling.
Like, I'm not doing that. I just remember you saying, like, don't burn it down.
You're like, good hook, good story. Yeah, I was like, it's good.
I got him. I, like, messaged you.
That's awesome. Anyway, so we did.
We had people come. And I was telling you in the back room, like, we intentionally invited, like, any and everyone.
I wanted to have, like, really established entrepreneurs and brand new entrepreneurs because I wanted to see where the framework broke. Because I just wanted to make sure if I was selling it, it worked.
You know, like for me, I just like I feel like I want to be really, really, really, really sure. Because if I'm really, really sure, then I can go on and I can like pitch my face for days.
But if I don't, then I feel like I'm like lying. You know, it's like it gets a little slimy.
So I had people come and it was awesome. It was so fun.
First of all, I love doing events in my house because I don't, I just wake up and I didn't have any furniture. So it was like, can I just come on in? It was like fun.
Like our kitchen wasn't even done yet. Like it was crazy.
It was so fun that we just like catered food. It was so great.
But we just had people come and I was like, okay, step one, great. Step two, great.
And it was really, it was really fun because of the people that came, um, we had a hundred percent success rate for everything i said and if you didn't or you try to improvise or you try to get crazy they did not succeed and so it was like okay great works love it and um anyway but i think the reason it works is a lot of why all my other principles work like my brain just like loves to find the patterns that work over and over and over and over and over and over again and because when I can find it then I'm like oh I can repeat it and something about that makes myself feel calm like like I literally like um I don't have one right now but when I was in when I was in college I had a personal assistant and she'd like do everything for me it was the best her name was Maddie and I would just make like uh so I'd make a standard operating procedure for everything I'd be like okay like every new season I want I need like six new six new outfits you know just freshen up the wardrobe and I'd be like this is exactly what I want to look like here's what I want you to model do this go there's my sizes great go and it was done and then like every every at the beginning of the week every week here's exactly what I want done great every like six months this is what I want done on my car great done and so it's just so nice it's just like I know just like, I know it's done. I know it's documented.
It's taken care of for those of you being like, this girl's insane. Yes, I know.
Okay. And sorry.
It's just how my brain works. But, um, but anyway, and it's really interesting because I don't care if anybody else lives that way.
I'm like, like I shared a room all in college and I'm like, girl, your side of the room is messy. Could care less of mine will be pristine, you know? But, um, but anyway, but for me and business, like like if i can't understand the process it gets like really overwhelming to me so for things like building funnels or joint ventures like anything i want to sell i really want to make sure that i know the process and so again we had people come to the center we tested it out like anything that like didn't work we ironed it out or um and oftentimes you know like when you start to pitch things you're like oh i said i said the right thing but you interpreted it the wrong way so i need to say it a different way and so like it was so fun so over those six sessions we um we like ironed out how to teach it and how to say it and blah blah and then um started teaching it to other people and and and having clients for other people and and um anyway it's been really really fun to kind of learn like what's the best way to sell this and how does it work.
But yeah, I love partnerships. It's amazing.
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Before we get we get into like some of the frameworks and how the process works, two questions prior. So I'm going to step back.
So you said you did $20,000 in sales of your own course and then you started in joint venture. Do you remember like the first one or one that was like a very impactful one that you did and what the numbers kind of look like? Well, I'll tell you my very first one and then I'll tell you my next one.
Number one and number two were the best. The best because they taught me the most.
The first one I did was with a girl named Lauren Golden. You know her.
And I actually did a masterclass in our group and I didn't even pitch. But afterward, people liked the masterclass so much that I had like 10 to 15 people come and buy my program.
And again, some of those first 20 sales. And so she messages me and she's like,

Hey, like I want credit for this. She's like, why don't we just do it again, but actually pitch.
And I was like, girl, love it. But I was so for, I had never done it before, but I was like, I was like, I almost like, I was trying to do it.
I was like, I'll do a masterclass. I'll do this.
You know, I had like a 10 step plan. And all of a sudden I went from like steps two to 10 already.
Cause she was like, let's just skip the steps and go like, so I didn't really know what I was doing. So I was like, okay, but I'll give you 90%.
Is that insane?

I was like, let's just skip the steps and go like, so I didn't really know what I was doing. So I was like, okay, um, but I'll give you 90%.
Is that insane? I was like, I'll give you 90% and I'll keep 10 because I was just so afraid I was going to whiff it. And I was like, that way if I feel like she can't be mad at me, just baby Catherine, I was so scared.
So I, and so she was like 90 and I was like, yeah. And she was like, you want me to be like a good case study for you? And I was like, for sure.
That's what I do. Yeah.
You know? And she was like, I mean, I don't care if you give

me 90%. We have since renegotiated our contract.
I will say that. But, um, but anyway, so we pitch

and I, we ended up doing like, it was like 34, 35, 36 sales. And, um, and again, I kept mostly

nothing of that because I gave it all the way to her, but it was amazing. I was like, holy crap.

Like I had just spent like six weeks, like really like trying to like get those first 20 sales.

I'm going to go to the next one and, um, and maybe it wasn't the next, but there's a few in that, but the next one was with somebody also in your group named Doug Bouton. And so we do it with him.
And this time, cause I'm always trying to like learn and apply. I was like, okay, great.
Like I knew he had a group and I was like, I wonder if this is when I introduced something called tiered bonuses, where I was almost like, I wonder if I can get the group to like sell for each other. So I go in, do the pitch.
But then at the end I was like, okay, great. Like, um, uh, if okay, great.
Like if 50 people or if 20 people buy, I'll unlock this bonus. If 50 people buy, I'll unlock this bonus.
If 100 people buy, then I'll unlock this bonus. And it was just like a test because I was like, I'm not pitching to a cold audience.
Like I'm pitching to a tribe. And so I like, I wonder if I can leverage that to like get them.
Dude, it was, I got to show you screenshots. It was crazy.
Like they'd be like, what number are we at? And they'd be like, so, so get your butt in this program. You've been talking about this for days.
Like, what's our number? Oh, we're at 36. Come on, you guys.
Like, let's go. And like the countdown happened.
And Doug and I are like, this is awesome. And so like, I literally was like, man, if I make like 50 sales, like I'm just starting at this.
I'm like a $50,000 launch in an afternoon. That's like what most people make in a year.
I'm feeling good about that. Right.
And I paid $0 and I, I would almost always do 50, 50 split. It just kind of felt like it's just a no brainer.
Like it just felt easy. So I was like, okay.
Cause then if I hit 50, it's 25, 25, just again, free money. And, um, and then it was like amazing.
And all of a sudden, like people are just like going and going and I just put the a hundred out there, like just to see. I don't know.
But I'm like, they're not going to get it. But whatever.
Dude, they did it. We passed a hundred.
So we made 120 grand on that pitch. And I was just like, what just happened? And it was just like this idea of like, okay, like I recognize the nature of this pitch as I'm pitching to a tribe, which is like one of the beautiful things also about a joint venture, right? Like you're not, you're pitching to people that like each other, like commonly united.
And they just like kept tagging each other and they'd be like, we need seven more sales. We need six.
And like, literally people are on like being like tagging people, like figure I'll give you a loan. Like I was like, this is awesome.
This is amazing. So then that was the joint venture.
I was like, this is a cool thing. And then the next one, I got to tell you the third one too.
Cause then the next one I did one with a guy named Spencer Mecham, you know him too. And it was actually Spencer's idea.
I wish I was smart enough to come up with this where we pitched and it went so great. We did 25 sales, um, 26 sales.
And, um, it went so great that he was like, Hey, like, um, how fast did you say people get results? And I was like, uh, I was like 15 to 20 hours before they make their first sale. He's like, why don't you want to just like come back in in a few weeks and just show people that did it? And I don't know, maybe we make a few more sales.
I was like, crap, dude, that's amazing. So I was like, yes.
So I just go. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just screenshotting people's results.
We go back in. That I had bought from his presentation.
That I had bought from his group. Yeah, so I pitched in his group.
Those 26 people, we followed them. I took screenshots of all the results.
I went back two weeks later into his group. And, um, and I was like, I'm just going to try this repitch thing.
And, uh, it's so fun. I'm telling you what repitches are the most fun thing.
Cause you just get a brag. You just get a brag about like, like everybody put in the chat.
Tell us how awesome is Susan? Like blah, blah, blah. And if in the way that I structured my course, which I 10 out of 10 recommend everybody do it this way is I broke it up into like mini challenges that people could do.
So when they did challenge one, they earned badge one. When they do challenge two, they earn badge two, which is awesome because my course had nine badges.
And because I had nine badges, like if you think of a typical course, it's like, okay, great. You start at the beginning and then at the end you get a testimonial if they get the result.
But because I had nine badges, there were nine different places where they were taking screenshots that they were making progress to the result. So I basically got nine testimonials per each person, if that makes sense.
So even if somebody like hadn't made a sale or hadn't like reached the end result in those 10 to 15 hours, let's say the only thing they did was badge number one, which was they signed a contract that said like, I'm in, I it because i'd be like oh my gosh like uh like jerry he signed a contract you guys he started like how many of you guys have like wanted to start something you just don't and you don't and you don't but like look at jerry the man signed a contract he's in the program he's working hard and like and like from a jerry means the world to me that's hypothetical jerry but like jerry without the badge system he'd be nothing to me. Like he'd done nothing.
Right. But because you like set these many milestones, then all of a sudden this like bragging session, you can brag about the people that made money.
You can brag about the people that are three quarters of the way through the program, halfway through the program because they are earning different badges. So I would just go through and I would just be like, if we had those 26 people by, I just showed the progress of each of those 26 people.
Some of them have made money money some of them are on badge six and we're on badge four some badge one some badge seven right and i went through and then at the end like the transition into the re-pitch is basically just like the only reason i could figure out why you wouldn't buy is because you thought it was too good to be true so here are literally 26 people that purchased two weeks ago that are already getting results so what are you waiting for yeah so do you want to come and then um and so be like so i was talking with spencer and i don't he had the crazy idea we should open this thing back up so we decided to open it back up for one more like three more days or whatever and then i would just go through the entire stack over again and the lowest we ever did was an additional 25 percent of sales and with spencer we that we did 100 so we made an additional 26 sales because it's like,

if it's not broke, don't fix it. And so I was just like, ah! And so it's like, yes,

this concept, you have a product, you have an audience, and finding the right one is magic.

And then these other principles of leveraging the fact that you're pitching to a tribe through tiered bonuses bonuses, through repitches, like made this concept of joint ventures just lethal for us. And anyway, so fun.
Loved it. So cool.
All right. How many guys listen right now are excited about joint ventures? I wish I could say all your faces, but it gets me fired up.
And I'll tell one story and then I want to jump into process. But when we launched ClickFunnels, a lot of people don't know this.
I didn't actually buy, I think it was almost two years in before we bought our first ad for ClickFunnels. Two years? It was 100% of the first two years was all driven off the joint ventures.
And so what our strategy was is I would do a webinar with somebody and we'd pay them 40% commission. But we had a two-tier affiliate program.
So I would do the webinar with them. And then I tried to pay the person as fast as possible.
So we do a webinar on Thursday. We close down Sunday at midnight.
So Monday morning, I'm sending them a check for

40 grand or 50, whatever they just got, right? So here's the check. Thanks so much for promoting.

By the way, we have a two-tier affiliate program and we pay 10% on a second tier. So if you have

any friends who would also like a big check like you just got, we'll give you 10% of all of them.

They're like, are you serious? And so all of a sudden they'd get 8, 10, 12 people. They email

out, hey, I just run this webinar. It crushed.
I got 40 grand off it. And most people, of all of them.
They're like, are you serious? And so all of a sudden they'd get eight, 10, 12 people. They'd, they email out, Hey, Bryce's Brunson's webinars.
It crushed. I got 40 grand off it.
You know, then they make most people, they all contact us back. Boom.
We go and then run the webinar to all five of their lists. Right.
And then, uh, that person got 10% from all the, all their friends list and they'd get the 40%. I wired them the money, wire, wire, wire, ask them the same question and boom.
And I did, I think I can't remember the numbers. I streamed 70 and 80 webinars live the first year of ClickFunnels off that.
It started with me doing one webinar that turned into 80 webinars that took us from zero to over 10 figures in sales. And then year number two, the same thing, except for we evergreen them.
And it was just, we would have the joint venture partner record an intro. And I took a recording of me that I'd already done the webinar a million times.
I knew it word for word. And we would just edit the video, put their bumper on it, make an evergreen funnel for it.
And they would drive traffic. And then they had evergreen funnel that now would sell the same thing.
And we just kept doing it and doing it. And that's how we grew ClickFunnels.
And two years in, we're like, we should probably buy some ads now. We've done a webinar with everybody who's got a list at this point.
So, yeah, it was all joint venture. So I 100% agree that's like the best way to do it.
But it's scary because how do you ask them? Like, hey, I want to be your friend. Will you promote my stuff? So I want to talk about your process because I think it's brilliant.
And yeah, I'm not sure exactly where you want to go with it. But I'd love for you to break down what people should be looking at if they're like, okay, I want to join ventures.
I want to grow and scale a company this way. Like, what's the path? Yeah.
Well, and here's what I learned. Yeah, as we go through this again, my like systems brain.
cause I was like, dang, how do you, cause it feels like, Hey, why don't you let me come to your audience? So you spent a lot of time and money to build, to pitch my product, but they'll give me money. And now they're in my ecosystem.
It sounds like such a slimy, like terrible thing. So I was like, gosh, like how do you do this? Right.
And, um, and so what I realized is that, um, what I realized is that at the end of the day, what my potential collaboration partner wants, my potential joint venture partner wants is the same thing as me.

They want sales.

They want status, right?

Like, let's say I partner with you, right?

Like, we are partnering right now with the cell phone thing.

So what do I get?

I get sales, right?

I actually get money.

The next thing I get is status because my name is now attached to yours.

So thank you for that. Great vibes, right? The next thing thing I get is impact and impact is just helping people change their lives and then the next thing is time like I'm able to do more because we're partnering together so more with less and so I was like that's what I want and I was like they probably all want the same thing too so I was like so rather than me coming in and being like kind of needy and being like wait can I use your group like blah blah like, can I, can I present this opportunity, this offer to them in a way where it's like, oh, if I say yes to Catherine, I'm also going to get sales.
I'm also going to get status. I'm also going to get impact.
And I'm also going to get my time back. And so I started to think through like, well, what could that look like? And, um, I, I wasn't Russell Brunson.
I'm still working my way to become Russell Brunson numbers wise, but I know you're like, you've been in the game for 25 years and I'm at number eight. So I'm like, I still got time.
I still got time. So watch out.
But that being said, um, that being said, I was like, I, I was just a nobody, right? Like nobody knew who I was. I was just, you know, had a thousand and 12 followers on Instagram.
I don't even know that much more right now, but like, but I was like, how can I do it? So I was like, okay, let me like walk through again. I want sales want status i want impact and i want time that's what i goes down those are the four right down yeah sales status impact and time that's what they want or that's what i want and that's what they want too that's what every business owner wants so i was like okay how let's start with sales how can i provide them sales and what i thought is i was like okay um uh if i can come in and provide a complimentary product right not a competing product because if I come in and I pitch something that's a competitor of theirs I'm not giving them sales I'm taking away customers but can I find an audience where if I came in and pitch my product I could actually extract more buyers from their lists so like one example like I can give because people know your audience right like? Like you teach funnels, but you don't like dive deep into like, oh, here's a product on like how to do ads.
You have traffic secrets, but you kind of teach like here are the true principles, but you don't have a course on ads. You just like don't.
And so when I came to Funnel Hacking Live, I like went through and taught like here's the nuances of joint ventures. And so because of that, right, more people might have come to this funnel event that maybe wouldn't have come because they were interested in traffic that they're like Russell's not going to teach that but he has a friend who's teaching that so I'm going to come now to Russell's event so like I might go into a group like again like yours like they teach funnels I'm not really going to buy Russell's funnel stuff like I'm here I don't know I got here I bought a freebie but like but am interested in traffic.
And so somebody that you weren't monetizing before is now monetized because I'm offering the next step, right? Like a complimentary product. And so that gave a big clue to like, oh, these are the types of audiences that I want to try and partner with people where they're typically step one and I'm step two.
So, um, so the, the product that I did the best with, with joint ventures, right. Was, uh, was the first one that I did was just this funnel product, right.
Funnel designs. I was like, okay, well who, who is step one? And if I'm step two, like who's a, who's a group of people that, uh, that need a funnel.
So I was like, oh, anybody that has any kind of ads, right? Like if they do Facebook ads, the ads need to go somewhere. They need to go to traffic.
So I had a ton of success partnering with people that had gathered Facebook groups, email lists,

blah, blah, blah, around this concept of Facebook ads.

And I was like, oh, well, then what about YouTube ads?

Oh, and then what about Google ads?

Great.

Like, like all of a sudden, because like, it makes total sense.

Like they don't teach funnels, but I am the next step.

And so I wasn't competitive.

I was complimentary.

And so they were able to actually provide an amazing service to their audience.

All the while they're making sales from something they would never make sales from because they're

never going to make a product on funnels.

Right.

And so I'll able to actually provide an amazing service to their audience. All the while they're making sales from something they would never make sales from because they're never going to make a product on funnels.
Right. And so all of a sudden I was like, dang, if I can go be complimentary and just find audiences where I'm not competing with them, but they come first in the customer journey and I come next in the customer journey, then I will be able to bring sales because I can extract buyers that they wouldn't typically extract.
And that made like a ton of sense to people. They were like, oh, no, that makes sense.
Or like, you know, people have been asking for that. Yeah, sure.
Let's do it. Or like, that makes sense that it's the next step.
And so then we come to the next, the next tier of like, okay, that's how I can get them sales. Even though I'm a nobody, because I offer a complimentary product, I can extract buyers.
And then it's like, okay, great. How can I give them status? And there's two ways.
Number one, it's so crazy. Like if you do bring in a complimentary product, all of a sudden they're like the good guy.
Like, thank you, Russell. Like, gosh, I've been needing help for this.
Like, thank you for having cool friends, you know? But then the other thing is I like to call having a breaking news method. So the reality is like with the CF Design School program that I had, there are a bajillion product courses out there teaching funnel design.
They're just like are. And that actually is a good thing.
It means that the market wants it, but it's like, okay, how do I stand out? And so what I call it is a breaking news method. So how can I be so strikingly different from everybody else that I'm kind of breaking news that it's, um, it's like, oh, I'm not getting on the news because I'm a big name.
I'm getting on the news because who, what, how are you so different? You know? And so what I would do, and when I developed my product, I was just like, okay, can I help people get this result of funnel design, right? In a way that just basically rejects all the things that everybody else says that they have to do. So other people were like, oh, you need coding.
You need Photoshop. You need graphic design skills.
And what I said is, oh, you can get that same result without coding, without Photoshop, without graphic design skills. And so what happened is not only did I become breaking news, but I was able to get picked over other people because instantaneously they became irrelevant, my competitors.
Because they're like, oh, you need these things. And I'm like, oh, no, there's not.
And here's proof. And so even though my competitor maybe had 10 years experience with me and made way more money than me and made more big following than than me, they were old news because they weren't breaking news.
And so all of a sudden it was of value for this no name Catherine to come into their group to teach this new thing. Cause it was this breaking news method, you know? So, um, so for a lot of people too, like they even ask like, how do you keep speaking on these big stages? Blah, blah, blah.
And like, you don't even have that big of a font. I'm like'm like breaking news method like figure out because the reality is it's like let's say Oprah also taught uh how to sell funnels right or even do joint ventures or whatever like if Oprah taught that and I taught that and I my method was like oh I'm like Oprah just a little different I mean I would pick Oprah over me Oprah's Oprah you know but if Oprah's like I help people sell funnels but you have to go graphic design college or Catherine teaches funnels, but you don't have to do it and you have to do coding and Photoshop too.
I will get picked over Oprah for that particular skillset, right? Like- You think about, and you call it breaking news method, but I don't, our world, I don't feel like people do this, but like when I got started, I was trying to figure out how to get on TV. Like I wanted to get on Oprah.
I wanted to get on your Shark Tank, all the whatever back in the day and so i hired a publicist and stuff like that you look like what a publicist does and obviously you know this but the publicist job is to take the boring thing you do and figure out a cool spin on it the news isn't going to care because the news stations they all get you know 500 pitches a day so it's like what's the breaking news what's the thing that's gonna be like oh that that would that would pop off on a headline at news tonight at 5 o'clock. And that's how I had a really good publicist and got me a ton of shows because they just took the ordinary thing I did but figured out a way to spin it where it's like it was breaking news.
And all of a sudden, like, literally I was trying to get a whole bunch of news clips so I could start pitching a bigger news thing. So she lined it up.
Like, every weekend I was on a local news station somewhere around the country. I was just flying thing to thing.
And she's had that she was she was practicing or trying out there but that's the same thing here right like um i look at me at this point like i i mean we get hundreds a month of people trying to do your adventures with me and i get everything from boxes to packages to people showing up randomly their office to emails to dms to you know all kind of stuff right it's tough because it's like same thing publicists are getting 500 and like, they got to build a show. They need attention.
How is what you're doing bringing that attention? Like, what's the hook? What's the story that's unique, you know? So I think looking at it through that lens is like, yeah, you're pitching to a joint venture partner. Pretend you're pitching the producer at the news station.
It's got to find out something tonight that's going to get people to flip the TV on, click on the link, whatever it is. Like, what's that thing? So anyway.
Yeah, no, I love it. So like when we're trying to give them sales, like the thing that you really want to nail down with your product is your like tangible result.
What's the result I provide people? Because if you can get really clear on that, then you can very clearly show them like, no, you're here in the customer storyline and I'm here on the customer storyline. Like we're not competitors.
I'm actually like such a gift to your people, right? And the next step. And then the next thing is get very clear on your, you call it vehicle right what's your new what's your breaking news method right how am i different from everybody else because that because they might see like the first thing they're like oh you're right you are the next step but then what you don't want them to do is be like i should get a funnel design person i'm not picking you right like that's what you don't want thanks for inducing the idea but i'm gonna pick yeah i'm gonna pick but and so what you do is you also need to make sure you have a breaking news method say hey not only do you only do you need this, I'm exactly the girl you should pick, which then leads us to impact, right?

So at this point, they might be considered, and I'll tell you too, like how you can actually like tell them all these things.

I almost like consider them like coins.

Like you need to pay them a sales coin.

You have to like pay them the proper like compensation for getting access to their audience.

So like you pay them the sales coin by showing them where they fit in the storyline.

You pay them the status coin by having a breaking news method. But then they also want to have impact, right? They want to make sure that they don't like bring someone into their group and it's a major dud, right? That's not going to help.
So what do you need to have impact is you need to help people actually take action. So I like to make sure that my breaking news method actually is like very step by step.
Like this is what you need to do because if it's step by step, people will take the steps and then also have case studies. Like this works for more than just me because people need to have faith that they actually can do it.
It's like not just like this one thing. And so then the final thing is time.
And this I think is really important because I'll have like a lot of like service providers or coaches want to be like, oh, I want to do joint ventures. And there's like a million recipes of joint ventures that you can concoct up.
But the reality is, is that the most profitable joint ventures are when you do it with a mass distributable product, right? Like if you have a course that you can sell infinite amount of, because that's like very alluring to the partner. If you come in and you're like, oh, like I sell Facebook ads, but I have three openings for clients.
They're like, well, then I cap it at three. Like, I don't want to do that.
But if you're like, oh, I sell Facebook ads, of course. And if we sell 4,000 units today or 26,000 units, all the better, right? Like nothing breaks.
That's like really alluring. And that's where we can pay them this time coin, right? Where you get more for, you do more with your time than you, then you're doing now more with your time with me than you can before.
And they don't have to fulfill. So kind of having those things in place, like you're very clear in your result.
That can pay them with like sales because they understand how they fit in the storyline and the customer storyline. You need very clear in your breaking news method.
That's how you should pick me instead of somebody else. Making sure you have a step-by-step method so that people actually get results and they are praised for bringing you in rather than like, oh, you like pitching on this product and Catherine was a dud.
And then you make sure you have some sort of mass distributable product. And I might add on there too, making sure your sales pitch works.
It's really awkward if you come in and you pitch. I've never had, I haven't had that happen, but I can imagine, right? Like, because you sucked, right? Like, and that's your fault.
Like, you should do the work necessary. So whenever I tell people like, oh, like, can I start doing ventures? I'm like, do you have, can you get people results? And do you have a, do you have a pitch that works? And usually if you get to 20 sales, you got there.
Like, that's really all you need. And I say 20 sales because that's when I started.
Like your pitch is good enough that you got 20 people to say yes. And they can go from there.
Anyway, so when you have those things, then all of a sudden it's not like, oh, like, can I like, you know, like, uh, what's it called? Mooch. Can I mooch off your audience to pitch my product? It's like, no, like you'd actually be kind of crazy to say no to me because I have a product that your people need.
You're step one, I'm step two, and I'm better than everyone else at it or different as you would say, right? Breaking news method. I can help your people get results faster.
I have a step-by-step method, which guarantees whatever, as much as I can, their success. And your earning value is infinite because it's mass distributable like would you want to partner together on this that's like a pretty alluring offer rather than like hey like you want to be friends and maybe I can use your list and blah blah or like I'm going to send you a million gifts that's the other thing I don't like about gifts either I love gifts everyone if anyone wants to send me a gift I'm mad about it but if you send someone gifts for the intention of them, it feels really transactional.
Like all of a sudden you're like, Oh, like it almost feels like you own you, you own them something or like, Oh, like when are they going to come in with their big ask? You know, like, like, yeah, like here it comes. And you're like, Oh, like that's not like how a fun relationship works.
But again, like that guy that sent me that Jesus stuff, if he would have been like, Catherine, you do this, I do more bias from your audience sales done and here's why I'm different from everybody else breaking news method I think we should partner together plus case studies here's all the people I've helped before do it because I have a step-by-step method and I sell down a course so we can sell infinite amount of things would you want to move forward on this also I'm like hey let's chat that actually makes a lot of sense very sexy offer. And then someone can at least say yes or no, too.
Because they know what you're doing. I'm like, I like still haven't even said thank you, which is rude of me.
But I like haven't even because I'm like, oh, I don't know what the conversation is going to be. Yeah, what's the intentions here? I don't know.
Like, I don't know. And and again, I'm like, very grateful.
And if he's listening to this, I'm like, very grateful for the gift. But the reason I'm responding is because I don't know the intention of the gift.
Like, I just don't know. what i love about this like step by step so often with joint ventures people just like don't know how to approach it which is why there's all this like really fluffy i think kind of fake advice because people don't actually know what to do which is like go to networking groups make friends do this blah blah and the reality is you're always going to have better conversions with a warm audience always whether you're trying to sell a joint venture or sell a $17 ebook, like you're always going to have better conversions with a warm audience.
Always. Whether you're trying to sell a joint venture or sell a $17 e-book, like you're always going to have better because they already trust you and like you.
But the reality is, is that like, okay, well then great. Like how do we make that connection quickly so that then we can present an offer to them, right? Like I think that so often it's like, oh, well, you need to be in a network green group and you need to be friends with them for a year before you ask anything.
Like, for me, warming them up is just like, oh, you want to be on my podcast? And then literally immediately after the podcast, if it makes sense for me to do a joint venture with them, I will pitch them on the idea right there. Why? Because what's a sale? Somebody's in pain and I have a remedy.
So, hey, you have an audience that is in this pain you just told me on your podcast you do this I'm the next step like did you know that I do that would you want to partner together on that let me tell you I'm the best I have a breaking news method I have step-by-step we've helped clients do this this and this and it's actually in a product we do a 50-50 split on the back end is that something you'd like to move forward on let them say yes or no to you right but I think I think we just like build this whole thing up partnerships all this thing and we're this thing. And we're like, Oh, we got to fly these people out.
We got to schmooze them. We got to wind them and dine them.
And like, you know, there's so much status and ego, like the higher and higher up people get. And I get it.
Like, it's just what it is. And, and people do create barriers and all these different things.
But what I love about partnerships and what I think like God was good to help me discover is they are so accessible to the beginner. They're so profitable for the advanced because they have huge lists, but man, people are sleeping on like some of my best joint ventures were with people that had a Facebook group of 500 people.
Because if somebody has a Facebook group of 500 people, those 500 people are like loyalists because they're, why are you following this no name? It's because they like love, they're like one of the OGs you know foundation which means they're even i would i would dare call them a hot audience rather than a warm and so like my conversions would be crazy so people are like oh well i don't pitch them they have a tiny group i'm like go to the tiny groups like because i would just you know make like 10 30 50 thousand dollars just like you like that. It's a 90 minute pitch.
So awesome.

And so that's what I love about this concept is like, yes, the concepts still apply at

like very, very high levels, which again, like we've had clients in the eight figures,

nine figures, but the reality is that the framework works at the beginning, but you

need to make sure that you can prove you have a tangible result.

You're a breaking news method.

You actually have case studies.

You can prove that you've helped people step by step and it's in mass distributable. And if you have those things, then you're, I call it like joint venture ready.
And so, um, anyway, but I think it's really cool. And I think where people can go wrong sometimes is, is they try to approach a joint venture without being joint venture ready.
They're just like, Oh, well no, you should, you should just do it. And it's like, yeah.
Or, or even like a lot of like established entrepreneurs, like, like you, right or like whoever like they're like no like i'm good i'm good so like i'm just gonna pitch and so they try to do a joint venture with like a brand new product but they've never pitched it before and i'm like just prove it once waste that opportunity yes because that's like you may have one shot exactly and because they're like oh the first time i'm pitching this is to a joint venture audience and i kind of whiffed it then all of a sudden, like you said, if you can nail it for the first one, then you can get them to refer and then you can get them to refer. So I always like to say, even if you're the best marketer in the world, you practice it one time so you know, and then you can make sure that you nailed on the other ones.
Yeah. So I'm curious for you, just thinking about the tangible side of like, okay, I understand the principles.
How do you actually message those people? Like, what are you doing? Cause I start to feel like, am I sending an email? Am I showing up at their house? Like, what's like, how do you have that conversation? Like, what are some of the easy ways to do that? Yeah. It's actually very simple.
It's a two-step formula. You want to hear it.
Number one, get their attention. Number two, present your cool.
I call them coins, your sales coin, status coin, impact coin, and time coin. coin so what i like to do like to get their attention um i did this to you what'd you do my attention oh i seriously did okay well and here's the thing that i have to point out you when i tell you what i did to get russell's attention people are going to be like that's so simple he must be getting hundreds of those a day let me ask you this how many people have sent you a funnel that looks like that or a request that looks like that that all the pieces of yours was a multi-faceted yeah right yeah like here's the thing like i think people think that they're like sending stuff like that all the time and it's actually not that common like people will send you gifts or all this stuff but like a direct pitch like that not as much so anyway so what i did for russell is i was like okay how do i get his attention i'm love? Funnels, done.
And what am I good at? Funnel design. So I just built a funnel that said, hey, Russell, I made this video for you.
And then in the video, what did I do? I was like, hey, here's the storyline. You're here.
I'm here. Your funnel.
Do you remember you're like, your funnel hackers are great, but they're missing out on one thing. They need funnel design.
Yeah. I was like, your funnel hackers are in desperate need of funnel design.
I was even kind of bold. I was like, is that being rude? I don't know, but I meant it.
So sorry. But here we are.
So it worked out great. Okay.
Anyway, so you're funnel, and I teach funnel design. Yeah.
I was like, your funnel hackers are in desperate need of funnel design. I was even kind of bold.
I was like, is that being rude? I don't know, but I meant it. So sorry, but here we are.
So it worked out great. Okay.
Anyway, so your funnel and I teach funnel design, right? So tangible result, you're here. I'm here.
I can extract these new buyers, right? And then the next thing I literally said in the video is, and on the page was, and I do it via no, no coding, no Photoshop, no graphic design skills. Here's my breaking news.
That's it. So yes, they need funnel design here's why you should pick me then i said i do it in a six-step science step by step i showed case studies here's all the people i've helped before i settled in a program called see of design school and then i just direct asked i would love to present this to your audience we'll do a a profit a profit share from the sales that come from this great do you want a partner and so um so that's what i did to you and here's what i here's what i want to like point out is that the reality is that you just have to get their attention and then present the coins so some people are like oh i'm not good at funnels that's okay like do it in a video you could do it in a slide deck you can do it in a pdf and you came i mean you joined uh was it 2ccx and you were at an event and you brought a box that got me hooked to actually go watch the funnel yes because he like he like saw the phone.
He was like really cool, but I'm, I'm writing my traffic secrets book. I'm a little busy.
He's like, I'll follow up. So I'm like trying not to be creepy, you know? And I don't even know the rules of joint ventures yet.
Right. Like I'm just like trying, I don't even know.
And so like one week passes, two weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. I'm like, this dude's going to forget about me.
And I'd like sent like a few follow-up messages. If you're just leaving me.
It hurt. I want you to know.
But it's what it was the reality of the situation. So I was in one of your coaching programs.
But again, you like didn't know me. But so what I did again, what's the framework? Get their attention, pay them the coins.
Right. So it's like, how can I get this dude's attention without being annoying? Right.
So what I did is I just like made a box. I put his, your face on it and I put my face on it.

And, and then when it was just like so loud, it was like so colorful.

I may try to like sat in the first round and just like put the box up.

So when you were on stage, you could see it.

And then when you had a break, I just like walk the box up and I was like, Hey man, this

is for you.

And you were like, what the crap is this thing?

But when you opened it up, it wasn't like some random gif.

What was it?

I like literally had a QR code to a video that said, Russell, you're here in the story.

Like you haven't followed up.

And I literally just called it out to you.

I was like, Hey, like it's been six weeks.

Thank you. And anyway, and so it was just like, get their attention, show them the coins.
Get their attention, show the coins. And it's really interesting because like you try to go after someone like you, right? Like I call you like a tier A person, right? Like I'm going to need to go to a little bit more length to maybe get your attention.
Whereas these joint venture groups or these, these Facebook groups have 500 people in them or a thousand or even 10,000. Oh my gosh.
Depending on like where you're at in business, it's all subjective. Are you ahead of me or behind me? Like who cares? But like a lot of people will see you and be like, Oh my gosh, like Catherine's ahead of me in business.
And so they're just like happy to receive a Facebook message. Right? Like, or if I just like go live, like, like, hey, so-and-so, like, I just thought your group would be amazing.

I had this crazy idea.

I think between what you do and I do,

there's like amazing room to collaborate.

I kind of have an idea for something really cool.

Can I walk you through it?

That's my get their attention.

And then they're like, yeah, sure.

Like, let's chat.

I'm on a Zoom.

What do I talk to on Zoom?

Storyline.

You're here.

I'm here.

Here's my breaking news method.

Here's this.

Here's this.

So like, so often it's like,

oh, I have to do this whole shebang.

I have to do this whole fun. I have to do something, this whole video.
And again, for like people like you, I had to get creative on how to get your attention. But again, we just sleep so often on these smaller groups or these midsize groups when they're just, they're customers gathered, ready to buy that just want, that just want them there.
So I remember when I got started, I like, uh, cause I first learned about joint ventures man 20 whatever years ago and i remember seeing the big names right so like joe vitale tony robbins i had the name so i made my list of these people i remember i sent them all messages and like no one responded i was like devastated i kept sending messages i'm like why and then i started getting angry i'm like these people think they're too good for me like what's wrong and they don't they remember what it was like when they were you know i had all the attitude stuff that um that i had and stuff and then i remember uh by the time there's this new guy that popped up his name is mike phil same and he had just did a little launch it wasn't huge but he had i i saw him he made he obviously he just sold something someone's promoted it so i he's a new guy so i messaged him and he responded right back i'm like this guy he wrote me back like oh my gosh and then i was like hey mike i saw your product i bought a copy it's so cool and i was like i have this product over here he looked at mine he's like that product's awesome he's me back. Like, oh my gosh.
And then I was like, hey, Mike, I saw your product. I bought a copy.

It's so cool.

And I was like, I have this product over here.

He looked at mine.

He's like, that product's awesome.

He's like, I just got a new list.

Can I email for you?

I'm like, I didn't even ask him.

I'm like, yes.

You know?

And so he promoted it.

And then when he promoted it, then we got on the phone.

We're talking.

He's like, oh, have you met Gary Ambrose?

And so he named three or four people.

Like, no.

And so he introduced me.

And it was like, we all were at this little level right here.

And back then, all of us, you know, my list at the time was 217 people. So it was tiny.
217. Yeah.
I still remember very specifically. And that's how big mine was.
And like, but we had four or five. We were all this level.
Right. And I remember we were talking like, yeah, I tried to get so-and-so no one responded back, but we're all this level.
So then we all started doing these little promos back and forth. And what happens, like all of us started like getting more successful.
And then like, there's this next tier of people that like, all of a sudden like one of us broke into that tier and then we introduced and all of a sudden we're all this tier and then the next year and eventually um tony robbins called me i didn't call him eventually joe vitale like because they kept seeing like they saw our group coming up and they're like oh these are the up-and-comers and they started reaching back down to it to leverage our status um but it was it was it was understanding that and like i think for a lot of people it's like don't freak out if you can't get a hold of russell brunson like that's nothing like i have people all the time like i made a dream 100 russell but it's a dream one and you're the only one i'm like you failed then yeah you don't get it get to me yeah get the people down here that are that are one step above you and they start doing there and then you'll your list will go and your success and your influence your status will grow and then it it well and i I think too that you bring up a really good point I think with your story of growing and growing. People are like, oh I made a list and it's you.
It's like you missed the point. Because I think how they're trying to use you is not the way we talked about.
They're trying to use you as like a silver bullet. Like if Russell promotes my stuff, everything's free.
And it's like, well you haven't you don't have the currency the sales coin the status coin the impact coin the time coin required to leverage russell so at that point it becomes that like transactional like oh i'm just gonna mooch off of russell right but when you are like like be where you're at it's like so amazing be where you're at and like do grow and like um some people are like well i don't even know anybody with a facebook group here's what i here's what's like the most amazing thing like some also my best pitches have been because I went live on somebody's personal profile page they didn't have a group like but they have an audience and you just go so like if you're just like trying to figure it out and start like these principles apply the name of the game is you have a product and can you leverage somebody else's audience and if they are complimentary then it's a gift to that audience you know but yeah I just um it was a I think it was a gift for me like I love too that you start with 217 people like I just I didn't know nobody knew who I was so I couldn't leverage status the way people leverage status I couldn't leverage sales the way that people I had to like really get smart about the marketing of it to be like why would somebody want to partner with little old me and it's because the product I have and the way I deliver it is lethal and that's what I think makes this game really accessible because if you really are an expert in your craft like the way that that we teach joint ventures and partnerships um what what we'd like to say is that it allows the people that deserve the microphone to be on the stage because if you actually have a product that works then you're going to be able to book these things and you're going to be able to skip the line but if you don't I mean I'm telling you what you pitch a bad product I mean it dies fast because it's all in reputation right um anyway so I love that I want to add one more thing to this interesting that I want people to also know is like sometimes you're a lot not sometimes most of the time we pitch someone they'll say no or it's not going to work the way you want it and you're actually a great example because you pitched me on promoting the webinar and I've never approached a webinar right and now we know each other do we say six years eight years which is rude Russell no I don't remember sorry it's but yeah but think about a long time and so like you made that pitch to me and um it didn't make sense for me to promote it but I had a gap where I was like but I know your skill set now and I was And I was like, I feel like I can live. Like, you'd actually be, you could serve my audience here.
Like, plug you in and you were there. And that gave you status and stuff like that.
I'm sure you made sales from that, but it wasn't directly. I didn't promote you.
I just, I gave you a platform. I think it's been four times now, right? Yeah.
And then now, six years later, we're working on a certification program. Those who watched the sales pitch were like, we were on the phone back and forth.
And all of a sudden it was like, what we partner together and we take your program my program and much again like and now we're doing a whole promotion which is technically promoting that but it's put together so um yeah sometimes it takes a little while but there's always other value that comes from it it's not like they said no or it didn't work right now the whole thing falls apart and you ditch them it's like stay connected like tony rob, I was working with him for a decade before he did the first thing that promoted. But he gave me – I got value throughout the relationship because I kept showing up.
Like he had me speak at Business Mastery in Fiji. He had me do these things.
And like it wasn't what I asked for but it was these other things. And then eventually it was like – then it made more sense because we had trust and rapport.
So it's also like there's a short short term game. It's also a long game.
Just understanding like if you treat the relationships as relationships, more stuff can blossom and grow from it as well. Well, and I think there like truly is a strategy behind that too.
Like when I spoke at Funnel, I kind of revealed, I call it the collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder, but ultimately like the more audience exposure that you want from somebody, the more value you need to provide, right? So like, and so often, so there's, but there's other collaborations that you can do, right? You can speak on each other's stages. You can do a virtual event.
You can do a masterclass. You can be on their podcast.
They can be on your podcast, right? And what's so crazy is that oftentimes people are like, well, if I can't do a joint venture that I don't want a relationship with them at all. When in reality, like you can leverage, you can get sales and you can get status and you can get impact in time, even if you don't directly pitch, right? Like I did that mastermind with Lauren Golden, the very first thing, and I made 10 sales.
I didn't even pitch, but I was able to provide value. And so people were able to come back.
And the thing that's most amazing is like, if you can get what I call on somebody's collaboration ladder, like, like if you can do a collaboration with them, even if it's them on your show, you're not even on their show, then all of a sudden you have a relationship with them. And what have you done? You've gotten their attention.
And because you've gotten their attention, what can you then do? You can present to them other opportunities. And so you can either, you can just slowly climb the value ladder you can do.
But like, I'm saying as amazing as like you ended up, I asked for a joint venture and you didn't say joint venture. You said, hey, why don't you come speak at Funnel Hacking Live? I said, great.
And since then, we've done like a ton of master classes together. I've been in your virtual events.
I've spoken at your in-person event multiple times. You've been on my show.
We're now doing this together. And again, I think that oftentimes we also only see like this game of Dream 100 or joint Ventures is like it's 100% or zero.

When in reality, what we're trying to do again is leverage somebody's audience.

And you can leverage somebody's audience to make sales even without a direct pitch.

Like this, for example.

Like people are going to listen to this.

And some people might go check on my Instagram.

What would the Instagram be?

Oh, at Catherine Jones Lish, right?

But I am being serious, right?

Like people are going to. And so people are like, oh, well, I'm not, what I'm not going to do is be, I, this hasn't been like a webinar, but I'm leveraging your audience.
Right. And if you come to mind, you're leveraging my audience.
And anyway, so I do think that that is like, seriously though, why I love this game. It's like so amazing that like what I've built can help you, even though your business is way bigger than mine what what i'm offering you right

now is actually helping your business and your business is helping my business like it's just

like so amazing that um that when you when you figure out how to pair the right people together

it it kind of like uh it's like no respecter of persons if you actually have a good product

for real have a good product then you can infiltrate um and it just becomes really really

fun yeah so so i'm so glad to talk about i'm not mad that you said no. I was actually, I cried.
I was so excited when you asked me to speak at the event. So me giving you sass, there actually is no sass whatsoever.
I was only excited. Oh, man.
Well, thanks for, first off, being on the podcast. Second off, being in Boise this whole week, hanging out, doing the sales funnel challenge, but also sharing the stuff on joint ventures.
I think for my audience specifically, it's like everyone gets so tied into Facebook ads or their free – what are the traffic sources? It's like when I wrote Traffic Secrets book, the introduction was like there's a storm coming, and it happens all the time. Platforms are deplatforming people.
Accounts can shut down. And it's like if everything – if everything if i lost everything tomorrow if everything disappeared if i got all my social profiles shut down everything like joint ventures i'd be fine like i would just like okay well i've got a lot of people i've worked with over the last decade two decades like who am i gonna call i make a couple phone calls i'll be back on top like and if you don't have people that you've worked with over the past decade what do you do start start and how do you do it it's seriously so easy just like you don't have to start a full-blown podcast just start a show literally just like name a show and go live on your personal profile page on facebook and then also yeah exactly and then all of a sudden you have a relationship with people you've gotten their attention so then what do you do next hey that was so awesome i i think between you and you do and i do have a great time we'd be able to collaborate would you could i could i tell you what i'm thinking about and all sudden you're like opening the doors to all these different things and what it cost you was a great time.
We'd be able to collaborate. Could I tell you what I'm thinking about? And all of a sudden, you're like opening the doors to all these different things.
And what it cost you was a 30-minute podcast episode. And now, even if you don't have a Rolodex from decades, like I didn't, you can just start to play the game.
Yeah, it's awesome. I love it.
So cool. All right, everybody.
If you're listening at home, wherever you are, it's time to do some joint ventures. Yes that in um because if you're only relying on mark zucker means you zuckerberg means you've

got one joint venture partner and he's not the nicest guy he will shut you down without even

thinking twice so diversify your traffic do joint ventures have some fun get to know cool people and

it'll make this whole business so much more fun as you get to hang out with really cool people

so awesome love it thank you appreciate you bye bye