Street Hustler to CEO: How Selling Drugs Prepared Marquel Russell for Big Business

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Even when I was like in the street selling drugs, it was like I always knew that there was more.

I never wanted to just be like a local corner boy and we just made a little bit of money.

I'm like, hey, if we're going to do this, we need to do this thing big.

Dude, you are an interviewer's dream because I now have like 37 questions to ask you. Let's go.
Yeah, make it look, make it look, make it look easy. The Ryan Hanley Show shares the original ideas, habits, and mindsets of world-class original thinkers you can use to produce extraordinary results in your life and business.
This is The Way. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.
We have a tremendous conversation for you today with Markwell Russell. He is the founder of Client Attraction University.
He has an incredible story from coming from the streets of Atlanta, selling drugs, turning his life around in so much as moving into legal businesses. What that transition looks like, how he was able to see past his old life and the old limiting mindsets that kept him in that world and branch out into the entrepreneur space, having built businesses that scale very large, just incredible storyteller.
And there is a section of this podcast, which you're going to hear me during the show. I'm going to tell you to stop the podcast.
Take your fingers, slide the little marker back about seven minutes and re-listen because there is a section of this podcast that is an absolute masterclass on defining exactly what you want and how to get it. You are going to love this show.
And as always, I appreciate the hell out of you being here. Now, you know that I do not run ads on this show.
And the reason is because I just want you to enjoy this. I want you to get value.
I want you to appreciate the people that come on. I want you to work with the people that come on this show if you find what they do to be valuable.
That being said, I am dropping my own course. It's called Master of the Clothes.
This is for sales individuals, particularly those who handle inbound leads or want to build an inbound lead operation.

My company, Rogue Risk, we were founded in 2020, and we were able to scale that business so fast that we were acquired within two years, and I was able to early exit that business in November of 2023. We were able to put over 1,200 clients on the books with almost a zero paid marketing budget in less than three years.

And we did that because it wasn't just about lead acquisition, while that's a big part of it, it was about how we closed that sale. And this is a battle-tested thousands and thousands of inbound leads over the course of my 20-year career that we then were able to test each line of this script, each line of this psychological process to come up with the highest closing ratio possible.
Reps who started using this program came in at around a 25 to 30% close ratio, and within six months, they were closing north of 80% of the qualified leads. That means we were closing four out of every five qualified leads that came into our business.

That is how we were able to scale, and I'm teaching that at masteroftheclose.com.

If that sounds good to you, if that sounds something you're interested, go over to Master of the Close.

If you're listening to this in the future, we are launching in October.

So if you're listening to it before October, get on the wait list. If you're listening to it after October, go in, join the program.
You're going to get detailed videos. You're going to get actual scripts.
You're going to get tons of resources, the actual resources that we used and refined at my business. And I just look forward to dropping this for you guys and giving you this program.
This is the best inbound lead sales system that exists in the world. I promise you that.
All right. With that pitch out of the way, I love you for listening to this show.
I love you for listening to this show. Let's get on to Markwell Russell.
Markwell, it's great to have you on the show. Appreciate you, bud.
Appreciate your time. I'm excited to be here.
Let's get to it. Well, I was researching you.
Your team reached out, and I was super interested in what you had going on. And then I started researching you, and your story is pretty incredible.
I want to spend some time today, as we discussed beforehand, talking about how people get started and how you get started. And I think the power of that part of our conversation is set by kind of your backstory, like what was going on in your life when you were younger and how you were able to put yourself in the position today.
So maybe if we could start like as far back as you want to go and think is relevant. Yeah, for sure.
So. So, yeah, let's just let's dive in.
So. So in short, so I dropped out of high school in 10th grade.
So, I grew up in a drug-infested environment. The first, the earlier part of my life, my aunt actually raised me up until like third grade, and I actually thought my aunt was my mom, right? So, I was with her at a very young age, and then I met my biological mom in third grade and started living with her.
And 10th grade, I actually, and my aunt was like a real, she was a drug addict. From Atlanta, we call them crackheads, right? But she's my aunt.
So respectfully, she was a drug addict, I guess. But she was functional, right? So she made sure we had a place to live and power and water, all that different type of stuff and everything that came with that.
Fast forward, though, in 10th grade i dropped out of high school um and went just full-time in the streets like the only people who i knew who were successful in my eyes at the time who was like making money and so forth was drug dealers so uh i went that path and fast forward a little bit more um 19 i met my i met my first son um for the first time in visitation He was just born. My goal, I was planning to get out before he was born, which crazy enough, it was literally the same year LeBron James was drafted.
Yeah. So I met my son for the first time there and I was like, okay, I got to do something different because my dad wasn't around when I was growing up.
So I was like, I got to go a different path. So I got out, tried to do the job thing, the multiple jobs thing.
It just wasn't really my cup of tea. So I defaulted back to what I knew best was the streets, but I used that money to start a record label.
So I was doing artist management club promotions and so forth. I was always entrepreneurial.
I just kind of used my entrepreneurial gift in the wrong way. So I went into the entertainment world doing artist management club promotions and so forth.
I was always entrepreneurial. I just kind of used my entrepreneurial gift in the wrong way.
So I went into the entertainment world doing artist management, club promotions and so forth. I knew people who'd rapped.
I knew people who did production. So I brought them together.
My goal was never to be out front or be the personality or any of that type of stuff. It just kind of turned into a thing.
So while I was in the club one night at a friend of mine's mixtape release party, a guy approaches me and he pitches me on network marketing. He didn't tell me it was network marketing.
In network marketing, some people call it MLM. Some people call it a pyramid scheme.
People have different names for it. He invited me to a home meeting that Wednesday to meet some of his mentors who are millionaires and they were looking to expand in the area.
So went to the meeting. They started talking about this ground floor opportunity and all I had to do was get to and they'll get to and they'll get to.
I signed up, signed up, my brother paid half of him, half of his way to get in. And I was just like, oh, we're going to be rich from this thing.
That didn't happen the way we wanted it to happen. However, it introduced me to personal development and it also introduced me to the online marketing world because I had to learn how to generate leads and so forth.
So I went into that world. I started learning about marketing and direct response marketing and attraction marketing and so forth and realized it was people making money online, which was crazy.
And I got bit by the book. I bought my first $40 e-book that took me down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.
And the niche I decided to go in at the time was teaching network marketers how I was growing my network marketing business online. And then I discovered a massive opportunity because a lot of business owners were actually struggling because they didn't know how to get leads.
So I really began to hone the craft of lead generation and start teaching people that. And then I started really honing the craft of converting leads into clients.
And then people started reaching out, asking me, could I teach them what I was doing? And then I realized that coaching was an industry and a business in itself, which was mind blowing to me. So we started a coaching company, started coaching businesses on how to attract clients.
And that actually turned into Client Attraction University. And we we helped you know thousands of business owners you know with their marketing and their client acquisition systems we helped our clients do over a billion in revenue that company got in 5 000 fastest going company list on recognition but throughout that process we realized that as we were helping businesses fix their lead generation and their client attraction and their revenue issues, in many cases, their business was imploding because they didn't have infrastructure.
So they weren't set up to scale in terms of team and systems and processes and really operating as a CEO. So we started a company to fix that need called Strategic Scale Institute.
And that's really what we focus on now is helping businesses scale to the seven figure mark and beyond while actually taking more days off. Because a lot of times people are scaling and they're generating more revenue and they're growing a bigger business faster.
But it's swallowing their life and they're actually having less time with their family and with the people that matters most. So we're helping them build systems so that business can actually run and scale without them so they can actually enjoy all the other areas of their life that they actually enjoy.
So, yeah, so that's a quick back story of kind of bringing me all the way up to, you know, at this point of us having this conversation. Dude, you are an interviewer's dream because I now have like 37 questions to ask you.
So we're good. Good.
it. I came out of probably what you'd call

the questions to ask you. So we're, we're good.
Uh, I came out of probably what you'd call the, the white version of that, a very small drug infested town in the middle of the woods in the North. So I have a different filter, but a similar understanding of the environment that, that you came out of and of the town that I came out of, I'm literally the only one who made it out.
Yeah, me too. Anybody who was in three or four years around me.
So I have a very strong appreciation for where you're at. I'm really interested in so many people who grow up in that type of environment.
They don't make the mind shift that you made. You know, my dad spent time in jail twice when I was a kid, you know, for years.
I thankfully have avoided that. But I know so many who have been in and out forever.
Right. They don't they don't have the wake up call.
They see the kid, you know, they, they similar story, but for whatever reason you were able to, to, to look at the world and say, I want something different and better for myself and for my family or whatever. What is it about you? What did you have a mentor? Did you meet someone? How are you able to make that pivot? Because so few are.
It's a great question, man. I think for me, I think it's really it's a really great question, man.
So I think a lot of it came from I always wanted more. So like even when I was like in the street selling drugs, it was like I always knew that there was more.
Right. So I was like, all right, I never want to just be like a local corner boy and we just made a little bit of money.
I'm like, hey, if we're going to do this, we need to do this thing big, drug kingpin style, right? Or because earlier than that, right, I wanted to go to the NBA, right? Or I wanted to go to the NFL, like most young kids, right, especially from my community. However, one thing that people used to always say, I guess with their limiting beliefs was, well, that sounds good, but have a plan B just in case, right? So my plan B was like the only way I saw to make money, because when I used to ask somebody for something to go to the candy lady or something like that, I was like, I don't got money and money don't grow on trees and all this different type of stuff.
And was like man how can somebody work all week and never have any money it was crazy to me so i always wanted more and my way of getting it was that way and then as i was just exposed so like my first book i think i bought was when i got into the music industry i bought a book called everything you need to know about the music business by dama passman um because i wanted to learn it right i always had this hunger to learn. Even before I dropped out of school, I was great in school.
I got A's and B's up until I wasn't interested anymore. And then I was just like, I don't see how Algebra 2 and all this stuff is going to make me a millionaire.
It just didn't make sense to me. So I just always kind of had this hunger for more.
And then I think I didn't really hear the word mentor until I was like 25. And that's when I was in the network marketing world.
And I started hearing about mentors and coaches and that introduced me to the personal development world. And then I was introduced to like guys like Jim Rohn and John Maxwell and Miles Monroe and Eric Thomas.
And these guys was just talking different, just speaking a totally different language. And I'm still in the streets at the time.
So I'm listening to like Young Jeezy, but then I'm also listening to Jim Rohn. And my guys who was around me, they was like, man, what is this stuff? What is this? Like, this is, you tripping.
We smoking weed and all that. And Jim Rohn is playing.
Or the Success Magazine, you used to send out these magazines with a CD that came with it. And it was like listening to that.
And like, we, we like in the spot. And it was like, what is this? And I was like, bro, I don't know.
It was just different. And it just began to nurture something that I feel like God just planted in me at some point.
And I just will start getting around these different environments where the game started to change. So, so yeah, hopefully that answers your question, man.
But it's, it's really, you know, looking back, you connect some of the dots, but, uh, I know early on, I just always wanted more. And then maybe that just came from never having anything and just knowing it was more out there to be had.
Did any of your guys pick up on it with you or did they just, they give you hell for it? So they didn't give me hell for it, but they, they didn't really come dump. So like my, one of my guys who I used to be with every day, I invited him to a network marketing meeting.
He saw the presentation. He was like, I'm in.
And, uh, we, I followed up to get him signed up and he like stopped answering my phone calls. And we like went for a while before we even connected again.
Um, but nobody, one of my homies, I always went every, every, every day. He went to prison.
He went to prison. He just came home.
He was gone for like 17 years. another one of my homies i always went every every day he went to prison he went to prison he just came home he was gone for like 17 years another one of my homies when he went and did like 18 um and all of my other homies some of them are like still in the streets and then some of them kind of transitioning out now but none of them really was like hey i see what you're doing i'm all in with this thing but But they also never was like, well, at least not to my face.

Give me hell about it. They were just kind of doing their thing.
And I just knew I never judged them either.

But I was just like, I know everybody kind of get it at their own time.

So I was patient with them and I'm like, hey, I'll pull up when I can pull up.

But I can't just be in the environments that we used to be in because it's just not it's not conducive to, you know, what know, what I'm looking to build and what I'm doing. Are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process? Chasing leads is a losing game.
That's why I created the One Call Close System, a battle-tested sales system that uses behavioral psychology to close deals in just one call. No more, let me think about it.
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Visit masteroftheclothes.com today close twice as many deals this time next week visit masteroftheclothes.com to learn how yeah and and not that i want to put rose-colored glasses on the drug game but there are a lot of business lessons that you can take from that oh 100 yeah what do Yeah. What do you think from from having to to be in that environment, to have to having to make your numbers, to having real consequences to making your numbers, not just getting your hand slapped by a boss? What did you take from that environment that has propelled you now? So so great question, man.
So and actually all of it. Right.
The beautiful thing. Well, I'm a beautiful thing.
One of the beautiful things about this whole experience was I was always I was always a leader. Right.
So to your point, I never I never actually was in an environment where I like owed anybody any money. So I wasn't in a position where I would get, you know, my hand slapped from a boss or, hey, you're not making money in a corner.
I always kind of ran my own organization, so to speak. Right.
So leadership is something that we could actually obviously take that and that directly correlates to legitimate business. Another thing is marketing, right? Because you got to be able to market your product, right? Because it's a lot of people selling the same thing, especially where I'm from.
But it's like, so why should people do business with you and not them what was somebody else right um sales um that goes without saying um also critical thinking so for me i never i know on tv a lot of times we see drug dealers and so forth on the corner and standing at the store and that type of thing that was never my thing because it never made sense to me i was like if we stand out here at some point the police are going to pull up and snatch everybody up or we're going to sell to an undercover or something.

So I always was like, OK, how do I sell to those guys who are on the streets dealing?

They got to re-up with somebody. Why not be me? Right.

And then branding, of course, branding, you know, who has good product and who doesn't have good product.

People who have the good product is typically going to cost a little bit more.

People who don't have as good, you probably can get it cheaper.

So that's branding. That all correlates.
Right. Analytics and knowing your numbers to the point that you mentioned.
Everything has to weigh up. If it doesn't weigh up the right way, it's going to affect your return on investment.
So all those things have to match up. So literally, I get this question a lot.
Like, what all transitioned over? Everything turns over from being okay with risk risk. Like I took risk at the highest level.
Like every day I would left out my house. Um, I took penitentiary chances.
Like anything could happen. Everybody's against you.
Like the people around you could be your enemy or they could be plotting on you. The girls you're dealing with could be plotting on you.
Then you got the people who aren't with you. So it's a lot of different variables.
So you got to be moving a certain type of way. So literally all that came over into legitimate business.
And because in a lot of ways, the legitimate business world is the same way. The characters just look different.
Yeah. You know, I think it's I've never been in the drug game necessarily, but I can only imagine that

It's it has that it has to give you some confidence moving into, say, a legitimate business. Not that selling drugs is illegitimate.
It's just illegal. It's got to give you some confidence walking into those rooms knowing you've played at a level where the consequences were as dire as you get removed from society and or worse.
And, you know, did you did you feel that? Did you walk into those rooms? Maybe not necessarily with the same knowledge that you had from your from your previous life, but but with a level of confidence, having played such a risky game that you could operate and be successful in those spaces? Great question. So early, early on, when I first came into this world, I actually thought everything that was an advantage for me, I actually looked at as a disadvantage.
So what I mean by that, when I first came into the online world, and was like teaching and so forth, it wasn't as many black people in this space teaching and being voices and so forth. Everybody was like, oh, the white guys normally had made money in real estate, got knocked out the game when 2008, 2009 happened or whatever.
Or they was successful in corporate, but nobody looked like me. So I was like, man, who's going to listen to me? A young black guy with gold teeth, tattoos, talk kind of fast from Atlanta, dropped it out of school in 10th grade.
Like, is anybody going to listen to me? So I guy with gold teeth tattoos talk kind of fast from atlanta dropped it out of school in 10th grade like is anybody going to listen to me so i had some of those limiting beliefs and um and i'm like my story is totally different and it wasn't until i started being genuine and authentic i was wearing suits and stuff like that to events because that's what we learned in network marketing but it wasn't until i just started showing up authentic and people just started sharing my authentic story i started realizing your point, like everything that I thought was a disadvantage is actually an advantage. Like I played this game at the highest level and the highest level of risk.
Um, and then to come into this business world, I bring a lot of that with me that a lot of people are fearful of. So I was like, a lot of people in this world are fearful of being told no, um, somebody being quick.
So I was in network marketing and I was like, let me, I was asking my mentor, I was like, let me make sure I get this right. So the worst thing that can happen is this, is somebody tell me no or somebody quit.
And it was like, yeah. And I was like, I'm going to kill this because I'm like, I'm like, where I'm from, it's stacked, right? There's so many things that can go wrong.
I'm like, we can make millions of dollars doing this, and the worst thing somebody can say is no. It was like, pretty much.
And I was like, oh, it's a wrap. All I got to do is focus.
Just like in the street game, I had the skills and so forth that I had to develop there. I'm like, if I put that same level of effort and focus of a mastery here, I can do something with this and I can actually go home and sleep at night and not worry about anybody trying to take anything from me or my life taking from me or my freedom taking from me.
Now you're in the coaching game. Why do you think so many people like literally lose sleep? They lose hair.
They lose weight or put weight on about hearing the word no. Why is that word so scary to so many people, especially early on? I think because we people now here's the craziest thing, right? I've seen people.
So like we work with clients and they'll be like, man, I'm getting a lot of no's and they're having their consultation calls. And I'm like, I'm like, let's slow down for a minute.
I'm like, has anybody ever actually told you no? And it was like, not really. They just couldn't buy for, you know, they didn't have the money or they didn't speak to a wife or something like that.
But nobody just flat out said no. Right.
So a lot of times people fear rejection. So they'll take anything other than a yes as rejection or they'll call it an objection.
So one of the things when I when I when I teach this and part as part of our framework, one of the things we teach is that the sales world has called certain things objections that's not objections. So for example, in a just situation.
So somebody say they don't have the money, that's not an objection, right? Because I like shows like Law and Order, SVU, and stuff like that. Me and my wife nerd out on that stuff.
And one of the things when they're in court, if the attorney doesn't agree with the DA or whatever it's saying, they say objection, right? Because they don't agree with what's being said. And I'm like, well, the person on the phone isn't objecting to what you're offering.
They're just saying they don't have the money or they just don't believe in themselves. And they're coming up with all other type of stories of why they're actually not buying.
So I think a lot of it just comes from us being children in the trauma that we were raised with, right? So for example, some adults are just hesitant about sales because they were told as children to not take money from strangers, right? Or they believe that 5,000 or 10,000 or whatever is a lot of money and people don't just have that laying around because of what they were taught about money growing up in their relationship with money. So they actually have a legit disdain for large amounts of money based on how they were raised in their relationship with money.
So I think a lot of it goes back to like childhood trauma and then just those fears that come with that. Yeah, I completely agree.
I had a couple guys, they just wrote a book called Start Thinking Rich. It's actually an incredible book.
And they're one of the guys is a behavioral psychologist and they have an entire chapter of the book based on the phrase money doesn't buy happiness and how this particular phrase that is so rooted in so many of the, we'll call it lower middle class, lower class and, and, and poor families in our country, right? Though, as a way of, as a way of making us feel better about our, what we believe our current station is, we'll say things like mobile money doesn't buy happiness. So you shouldn't go after it go after it.
And they just terrorize and tear apart this phrase and how this is like, if you're struggling with these things, sales, if you're struggling with large amount of monies, or even being able to visualize the idea of having large amount of monies in your bank account, like there's people, there's been studies done where people literally can't visualize having a million dollars in the bank account. Like they can't even put the picture in their mind of what that would look like.
And it comes back to this, you know, they kind of pull it back to this phrase and a few others of money can't buy happiness. And their whole point is that's not true because your happiness has nothing to do with money to begin with.
So it, but it certainly gets you out of all the negative that comes with not having money, which I think a lot of people on this that are listening to this right now at some point, right? If you've tried anything, you've gone broke at least once. And a lot of us came from situations where we were broke.
So like it certainly solves all the money problems that you got. So when you were talking about the transition out of the drug game into a legal business environment, you made kind of an offhanded comment that the people act the same, they just look a little different.
And I 100% agree. I feel one of the things that we completely miss, especially when we start to move up the ranks inside of organizations or even just in a community, if we're an entrepreneur is we see people who will smile to our face, but behind us, they either are rooting against us or are actively a competitor or they want what we have.
And I'm interested, like, did you find that? How did you deal with them? What was the difference in, say, someone who maybe, and I could be wrong again, I've never been in the drug game, how they maybe were open about their I'm coming after your business versus how you dealt with people when maybe you knew that was true, but they're going to smile and shake your hand and hang out with you at the party or the networking event or whatever?

Yeah. So I think it's crazily identical, right, in a lot of ways.
So in this world, I've seen it regularly where I'm like, I'm talking to somebody and they'll be talking about somebody else, like gossiping about them basically. and i'm like in my mind i'm like i thought that's i thought that was his man like because i see them together and it's like wow and one thing i've learned is that if somebody will gossip to me they'll gossip about me right uh because that's just that's who they are right so i can't can't just be like, oh, no, he just does that to them.

It's like, no. And it's also one of the rules that I have is I don't do business with brothers who cheat on their wives, because if you cheat on your wife, like, who am I? Right.
So so I've seen that. I've also saw in this game, it's just like down the streets.
It's like guys will come talk to you or women and it'll be like, it's all good.

And they'll be talking about somebody else who I'm thinking is their people.

but it's like no this just this is just who they are right i think in the legitimate business world

it's fascinating because especially when you're dealing with humans humans are typically

easily um manipulated from visual persuasion, right? So people who look like they have money, right? And I always tell people, like, looking like money doesn't have a look, right? And the internet is like, so for example, some people are like, oh man, well, I see people comment on my videos all the time. Oh man, how are you going to be on stage, you know, with a backpack? Or how are you going to be on stage with a hoodie on and your hat to the back? Or how are you going to be, if you want people to take you serious, you got to, you know, dress the professional.
And they're like, what does dress professional even mean? Right? So it's like, well, will you take me more serious if I had a suit on? Right? And I'm like, a lot of guys know that. That's why they put suits on.
And then they embezzle millions of dollars because they knew all they had to do was show up with a suit with a certain look and they could get you that particular way. Right? And I'm like, wow, this is, they call it, I think, white collar crime, right? But it's like, they're just doing it differently.
They're doing it through fraud and bank accounts and, you know, Ponzi schemes and all those different things. But it's like, that's no different in a lot of ways than dudes in the hood, you know, selling bricks or weed or pills or whatever.
They're just doing it a little bit differently. They just figured out another side of the game.
So the games are almost identical.

And in both games, it's very rare that you're going to find individuals who are just authentically genuine in who they are.

That's why a lot of these popular events and things of that nature, I like to stay away from.

A lot of times people are like, man, I don't see you here.

I don't see you there.

I don't ever see you with those guys.

I'm like, well, I know of those guys. They know of me.
And I'm cordial. When I see them, we speak.
i don't see you here i don't see you there i don't never see you with those guys i'm like well i know of those guys they know of me and i'm cordial when i see them we speak we don't have a problem but i'm just not in the um i'm not in the social i don't play the social game right i like to whoever my allies are like i run through walls with them but i'm not trying to play the game where i'm just trying to say the right things or do the right things to get in certain rooms and get in certain tables. That's exhausting to me.
I'd rather be at home with my kids and my wife and my handful of people who I really rock with on a daily basis. Dude, we're completely aligned on that.
The deeper that I've gotten into starting with the podcasting game and then moving into coaching and selling some courses and that kind of stuff. I want to say this the right way because I don't want a broad stroke, but I found there's two very clear types of people.
They're the people who are talking to you because maybe they have a community or they have an offer, they care about what they're doing, they're trying to help, this is their delivery mechanism, et cetera. That's great.
And there is a whole other group of people that it's like, build this list, hit them with this automation sequence, pitch them this, then you upsell them, and I'm like, and I'm listening to it, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. You make Like no doubt, like no doubt you do.
That's awesome. Except like at the end of the day, what are people getting? Like one, they don't have a clue who you actually are because this is all the game, the gimmick, the look, the picture with you perfectly framed in the, you know, one third, you know, they got this whole, it's a, it's a whole equation.
I get how it works. Like I, I'm, I'm, I completely understand why the, how behaviorally from a psychology standpoint, I completely get it, but it's like, they spend so much time on the tactics and the gimmicks and the automations and all this kind of stuff.
And at the end of the day, I'm like, but what, what are these people getting, what are they getting on the backside? And that is not to say that there aren't legitimate people also using those tactics. And if you can combine the two, you're an absolute killer.
But to me, I just find it to be, I found it to be a little distasteful. Like, I'm with you.
I would rather make a little less money, but have a little more time to coach my kids baseball team and be home and not have to be on the road and not have to go to this networking event and this mastermind thing just to meet this guy because he's got this list. And I start to get to the point where like, I don't care.
I'll take less. I'll take less.
I'll give more to the people who do do business with me. And I'll be happier because then I can go coach my kids baseball team, which is what I really want to do.
At the end of the day, I just want to coach my kids. You know what I mean? That's where like my happy place.
So like if I'm doing all this gimmicky shit and have to be on the road and fly to this thing and that thing, like you, you said it and this is, this is kind of where I'm going to take this to your, your strategy, strategic scaling Institute, because you said something to me that I think is lost on so many people that are trying to come up, right? That they don't see enough zeros in their bank account. They're feeling that pressure, right? They miss the season of transition out of the grind, which you have to do at the beginning, into what you're teaching.
And I would love for you to go there next. How do these people, and so that season, that early season of grinding, I believe it's 100% necessary.
If you're going to get something off the ground, you got to go to your kids, go to your wife, go to your partner, whoever, and say, look, for two months, I'm going to be putting in some nights. I'm going to be up early.
You know, I got to get this thing off the ground. But then there's a transition period where you're supposed to get your life back from doing that.
And so many don't. So how do you help people make that transition and maybe even get into a little bit where you see some common mistakes in that place? Yeah, for sure.
So I think a big thing is this, right? Even in the earlier season, right?

So I think a lot of times, even in the grind season that you spoke of, right? So I was that guy where it was like, hey, man, you shouldn't have time. I remember Empire first came out of the show.
And I used to be one of the guys posting on social. Man, if you're watching Empire, man, you should be focused on building your own empire.
You shouldn't be watching basketball games or football games unless you own the team. I used to be on that type of stuff, right? But in reality, it's like you should have a business that affords you the freedom to do whatever else you want to do, whether that's watch TV or watch the game or whatever the case may be.
I think the biggest thing is we spend a lot of time, and I'm saying we because from a community standpoint, working off a scoreboard that somebody else's scoreboard, right? So I read this quote. I forget who it was.
But basically that a life lived based on somebody else's scoreboard is a life not worth living. Right.
And how often are we chasing somebody else's scoreboard? So, for example, I so earlier in my career, I was into I was like I saw the cars and the Lambos and the Ferraris and stuff like that. And I went to the dealership one day and I got into one of those Ferraris and I'm not even a big guy.
Right. I'm like, you know, I'm like five, seven.
But even for me, it was so tiny. I was like, man, and this ain't no shade to Ferraris or anything.
But it was to me, I was like, man, this is so small. Like, how would I be comfortable riding in one of these? Right.
And then I was like, I want it. I want all these things.
Right. And a lot of these things I just wanted because I saw other people having them.
And then as I did deeper work, I learned this thing called mimetic desire. And mimetic desire is essentially us just wanting things that we see other people with and we want to mimic them, right? So I think just to bring this all together, when it comes to strategic scale most people think that scaling a business means bigger faster when in reality scaling is about duplicating and multiplying right and replicating so you can actually free up more of your time right because at some point the business should continue to grow without you right and without you having to put as much effort into right? But we got to figure out how do we strategically do it.
And also when I say strategic scale, strategic scale actually means moving closer, focus on moving closer versus focusing on more. So here's what I mean by that.
So a lot of times we, so let's, I'll give you an example. So I had an event last weekend with some of our clients, we call them CEO camps.
And a lot of times we have these revenue numbers. So somebody might be like, I want to make eight figures.
And I'm like, well, what is eight figures? Well, you know, eight figures. I'm like, well, eight figures is $10 million all the way to $99 million, blah, blah, blah.
Or somebody might say they want to make seven figures. And I'm like, well, what's that? That's a million all the way to nine million, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right. But a lot of times we just throw these numbers out because other people have said it.
And then it's like, all right, the next level of that is why do you want to make that? Well, it just seems like it'd be good to make. Right.
And I'm like, well, have you actually sat down and ran the numbers of exactly how much you want to personally take home to afford the lifestyle that you want?

Have you actually ran the numbers?

Most people haven't.

However, when you do, you will realize that here's what I have to make personally take home.

And because of that, that's now my business revenue goal because my business has to make that for me to take this. My business has to make this at this particular profit margin for me to take this home but a lot of people haven't sat down and ran those numbers they're just chasing a goal because somebody else said a number and they feel like they got to say that same number to feel cool or fit in or they got to say a bigger number to try to impress them and it sounds good on the internet right but we haven't done that but Now, once do that we'll say okay here's the number and then also what else are you prioritizing so they may say i want to prioritize family so i give an example i was speaking at even in kentucky it's 250 leaders there and i was like how many i want to spend more time with your kids of course you know everybody raised their hand and i was like how many you have your kids on your calendar everybody hand went down but one but one person.
I was like, how many of you want to get in better shape and hit the gym more? Everybody hands went up. I was like, how many of you got the gym on your calendar? Most people hand went down.
And I was like, well, if you prioritize family and let's say success to you is being home when your kids are picking your kids up from school at four o'clock and doing homework with them. If that's success to you, if somebody calls you and be like, hey, I got this deal for you.

I got a contract. Will you accept that if it takes you out of being able to pick your kids up at four?

If you take that deal, then you're a liar because you're incongruent.

Because if you said this is why I prioritize, you won't accept money and replace it at because this is what you're doing so if your goal is moving closer to more time with your family with your wife with your husband whatever that may look like doing ministry or whatever but making more money is pulling you away from that we got to decide what what you're going to go after. So with our clients, we focus on moving them closer.
So it's like, all right, what's the priority outside of money? Money is a byproduct. Money is just a means to an end, right? Money is just a tool to afford us the things that we want, right? So it's like if it's more time with kids.
The typical business stuff that people throw around the internet is they'll say, well, if you want to free up more time, just delegate, just hire somebody. And it's like, all right, cool, let's do that.
Let's say you want to free up 12 hours a week so you can spend time with your family. Cool.
Let's say you hire somebody and you say they're going to replace those 12 hours. But guess what? Now you got to manage this person because this person now needs a direct report.
And if you don't have nobody for the manage, now you've probably added 12 hours to your week just managing this person. So that actually moved you further.
It didn't move you closer. It actually moved you further away.
Now, in reality, you could have probably zoomed out in this thing that you were trying to delegate probably could have just been eliminated. So we want to look at eliminating and then automating and then delegating.
So a lot of times we're doing stuff every day just out of habit, but it can actually be eliminated or we can actually automate it. And then if it is something that's important, then we look at delegating it in a systemized way.
So now we're doing the thing with the family. So a guy's flying me out to Dallas to do his podcast.
And he was like, well, what kind of room and stuff like that? And I was like, to be honest with you, man, if I can fly out there after my kids leave to school, we do the show, and then I fly back out, you don't got to get me a hotel. Because my scoreboard is how many days I wake up and help my kids get ready for school, and then how many days am I there when they get home from school right so if I can shoot out there serve you serve your community and then get back that's a win for me right and that'll save you some money at the same time two rooms because my videographer would be with me and it was like okay perfect so again that's me and how that's my philosophy, being a recovering addict to faster, more, big.

I'm like, man, if we do an event, we got 200 people there.

We got to double.

We got to do 400 next time.

Oh, we made 500,000 last month.

We need to make 100,000.

We need to make a million this next month, right?

Bigger, faster, grow.

And all of that was that.

And I had my priorities with my family and my kids.

But that was actually moving me further away from the priorities that I had, which in reality, I wanted to be closer and spend more time with my family and my kids, but that was actually moving me further away from the

priorities that I had, which in reality, I wanted to be closer and spend more time with the family.

And that didn't look like growing bigger, growing faster. It looked like strategically scaling so I

could multiply and then I could optimize for profit instead of top line revenue, which is a

whole nother conversation. Also optimizing for happiness, client results, and then also creating this life that I want.
So I feel like that was a super long answer, but does that make sense? Guys, I know I'm not supposed to say this like in the podcast world or whatever, but I want you to hit pause right now. I want you to take your finger on whatever you're listening to this on YouTube or Spotify or app or whatever, and slide it back about seven minutes and start and listen to that section again that starts with, are you living by someone else's scorecard? This is a freaking masterclass that Marquel has given us right now.
And I couldn't agree with you more. And my man, I have learned this lesson, made the mistake again, learned the lesson, made the mistake again over and over in my career.
And I keep level setting. And I think the one, the only thing that I want to add is if you find yourself in that place that you're doing all the things that Mark Wall is saying, don't do right.
If, if you're, if family is your priority, right. Cause I think that's the place that, that, that we're at with this conversation.
Don't beat yourself up. I got buddies who call me and they're like almost in tears.
They're like, I've been on the road three weeks in a row and, you know, in this and I'm trying to get this here. And I just am like, dude, take a deep breath.
Like, it's okay. You know? Yeah, you may not love that you didn't see your kids or your wife or your spouse or whatever for the last three weeks.
I get that. And that sucks.
But like, let let's just learn from it. Like, let's just take this and start dialing back.
When's the last time you said no to an event? You know, if you're doing good work and you're putting your brand out in the marketplace, you're going to get invited to a ton of stuff. It's just the way that it happens.
When's the last time you said no? Like, let's talk through them. Dude, the next, and I've said to guys before, like, the next time you got a got a thing and you're not sure call me i'll just pepper you with questions and you can make the decision yourself you know what i mean like find a buddy find a friend find a mentor find a partner talk to your spouse and just say like is this something i really want to do when i started asking myself that question and putting it through filters like you've described I took took my, I used to do 40 plus keynote speaking events a year, 40 plus.
I basically didn't see my oldest son when he was one years old. I was just gone all the time.
And in my mind, it's I'm building this brand, I'm building this business, I'm in demand, I'd be an idiot not to take these events, I gotta get my name, all those things in my head, right? We're going, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I i gotta i gotta i gotta and then i come home and i'd be freaking miserable because i didn't get to see my kid you know do this or you know i just hadn't seen him in days or you know and like it was brutal and then also you know then you then you wake up and you start to say well i'm not leaving unless it's this amount or it's this type of person. I'm only taking 12 gigs a year tops.
That's one a month. That's not a problem, right? So you start to put these filters in place.
And then to your point, and I think this is the hardest part for people. And, and I'd love to hear if you have a strategy for this, holding themselves accountable to it.
Cause the number of people that I know, myself included, who've gone through an exercise and come up with a plan, like a filter, like I'm only going to take 12 gigs. And then that 13th gig comes in and it sounds good and it's something you'd like to do.
And you're like, you know, it's only one more. And then another one comes in.
Right. And now we start to break that thing.
So do you have a process, an idea, a belief structure for holding yourself accountable to some of these filters that we put in to guide our life by what you're talking about yeah i think um so great so even with this so the relationship you have with your buddy i think having relationships like that are solid and then letting them know these commitments otherwise kobe bryant has this thing where he say one of the things that helped him become great is he never negotiated with himself right so if he said if he says i'm going to the gym at five when the alarm goes off if he says i need 15 more minutes of sleep that's him negotiating with himself right if he said i'm gonna go and i'm gonna put up 3 000 shots if he says man been going hard this month, man, you deserve to just go a little easier today. That's him negotiating with himself.
He said once he realized that he couldn't negotiate with himself or that's when things unlock from. So I think we have to do a better job of not negotiating with ourselves and then having solid people in our circle who are going to shoot us straight and can help us with those filters.

Because we're going to have our biases, right?

And I think another thing for me, and it can be a lot of the stuff is like ego driven, right? It's like we're doing a lot of stuff for ego. So it's like when growing businesses, a lot of times we're growing based on ego.
Just to be able to go into the mastermind or go in these rooms and shout out your revenue numbers and you're making the most revenue or you're doing this or your your team is bigger so one time we scaled our team up to like 35 people right and and um and i was like man we got a lot of like i'm just getting to the point where i don't even know a lot of people on the team we're paying them but i don't know a lot of people on the team and um and you start realizing you got all this bloat it's like yeah you bigger team. You're generating more revenue, but it's costing you more money to make this revenue, right? And I'm like, well, we was making less, more profit when we're making less revenue with less people.
So it was like, okay, how do we begin to cut the grass and like scale this thing back? And then also, even with our coaching company, one of our other coaching companies was like, we was having our conferences and I remember having our events and I knew the people. I knew the clients, right? Their kids and all those different types of stuff.
We got to the point where it was like, we was having the conferences. And I was like, I asked my business partner when I was like, dude, he was like, I don't know anybody in here.
This is great. And I was like, I enjoyed the people.
I genuinely love the people and love being able to connect. But I was like, I couldn't do that.
And we got to the point where events were so big. My team was like, hey, maybe we need to start getting security and stuff like that to make sure y'all are good.
And y'all need to stay backstage and all this. And I was like, no, I enjoy the people.
I like to touch the people. Right.
It's exhausting for me after events. I like to go sleep and all that.
And I have a I have a limit. My social meter would deplete.
But it's like when I do, I like to be in touch to people. But we had got so far from that because we were just focusing on scale and grow and this, this and the third.
And then a lot of it was just ego driven. So I was like, I had to get realigned and be like, okay, Mark, why are you really doing this and getting back in alignment with that.
You've, you've kind of tangentially referenced faith or God a couple of times. I, so I'll share this with you.
I believe, and I've written this down many times in my own little journal or whatever. I believe the phrase I deserve or you deserve are the words of the enemy 100% because we don't deserve shit we deserve nothing right like we were given everything we could possibly need at birth by God so when someone tells you hey Marquel you deserve to be making another million bucks a year right in your head you go oh shit I do oh shit, I do work hard.
I do deserve that. I need to go get that, right? And then you start breaking all your filters.
You start breaking all your, you start negotiating with yourself. Or you say, or the worst is I deserve.
I'm not getting mine. Where's my Ferrari? Where's my McMansion in the suburbs or whatever your dream place, you know what I mean? Like, or I want a beach house someplace where I can take fancy pictures and put them on Instagram.
Like I deserve that. And you want to talk about the worst decisions you're going to make in your life.
They're going to come directly after I deserve or you deserve. Those are going to be the worst decisions that you make in your life are going to come after those two phrases.
I deserve to be, you know, you know, I, my wife doesn't appreciate me. I deserve someone that does.
I'm going to go, I'm going to leave her and go do this. Or, you know, my business partner isn't holding up.
I deserve someone better. I'm going to go do, and just the worst possible decisions you can make in your life come after I deserve or you deserve.
And I believe they're absolutely, uh, the enemy. Not to get all I know some of you are spiritual on here, but that's my take.
That's powerful. That's powerful.
Dude, I could continue asking you questions for hours, man. I think I think what you're doing is phenomenal.
I'm so glad that we've had a chance to connect. And guys, I was dead ass serious around around minute 30 ish of this conversation.
The part that starts with someone else's scoreboard, go re-listen to that section. Listen to that section.
It's about eight or nine minutes long. I marked it down here.
Listen to that section over and over. Your life will get better.
It will reframe the way you think about it. That was a masterclass, my friend.
I appreciate you showing up for us today. If people want to get to know you more, they want to get into your world, follow you, how do they do that? Yeah, for sure.
So first of all, thank you so much for having me on, man. I'm definitely honored.
I never take it lightly to get the opportunity to come on and individuals introduce me to the community. So I'm grateful for that and grateful for you as well.
So a couple of different ways. So whatever your favorite social media platform is, like connect with me.
If you're on Instagram, connect with me on Instagram, instagram send me a direct message let's connect i reply to my messages i like to connect with people if you're on linkedin connect with me on linkedin facebook whatever your platform is you're on youtube um go type in markoyle russell um you'll see my youtube channel and uh we have a strategic scale show where we sit down with businesses that are making 250 000 a year up to a million dollars a year. And we actually do real-time deep dives.
Like if they paid me $10,000 an hour for consulting or whatever, you actually get to see behind the scenes of us working on their business. And it's not, we're digging in and the cameras are just rolling.
So it's super uncut, super powerful. So those are a couple of social media platforms.
I also put together a page with like just tons of resources, whether it's marketing, sales, scaling your business or whatever. If you go to if you go to scale made easy dot com, just scale.
S.C.A.L.E. made.
M.A.D.E. easy dot E.A.S.Y.
dot com. Just go over there.
We've got tons of resources. Go over and dive in.
Whatever whatever kind of challenges or you have in your business, I guarantee it's a resource over there that'll be a benefit for you. So scalemadeeasy.com.
Guys, and I'll have links to all this in the descriptions, whether you're on Apple, Spotify, wherever you're listening and watching, I'll have links as well. So just scroll down and you can find everything so you can connect with Mark Wild.
My friend, I wish you nothing but the best.

I appreciate the hell out of you.

And you got a fan for life now.

So we'll talk again.

Definitely.

Thank you so much.

Let's go.

Yeah.

Make it look.

Make it look.

Make it look.

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