215. Addressing the Rogue Risk Rumors (and a confession)

in a crude laboratory in the basement of his home what's up guys and welcome to another episode of the show. I wanted to jump in here today and do a solo episode to kind of talk through a few things, what's happened recently with Rogue Risk, talk through a few of the rumors that have been circulating about Rogue Risk, and then ultimately talk about what's coming in the future.
So first and foremost, and I don't want to bury the lead here,

Rogue Risk has been closed, no longer exists, is no longer an operating entity. I'm no longer the CEO and founder.
There are no employees that work for Rogue Risk. And this happened about a month ago.
Now, just to talk you through my feelings on this, obviously, I was shocked and disappointed. However, I hold no ill will towards SAA.
I want to kind of get that out right away. I want to just be very clear that I don't think that, you know, this isn't a situation where I feel like SAA did me wrong.
They had to make a strategic decision that was in their own best interest, and that did not align with Rogue Risk. And while I think that it's a shame because we've absolutely figured something out, we absolutely had dialed in our business in a way that in a too distant future, we would have been doing ridiculous numbers at a level and through a process and essentially a cost basis that I think the industry had never seen before, certainly not on the organic side.
However, that's not going to be the case. Decisions were made, Things had to be done.
At 42 years old, I understand how business works. And I don't take things personally.
I don't think it was a personal decision in any way. Like, there was nothing against me.
So, or my people or whatever. I think that it's life.
Unfortunately, I'm used to growing things rapidly and then having them taken away from me. And I don't mean that.
That sounds very like that. Like having situations in which I was growing something rapidly as part of an organization and having that organization suddenly come to an end, that opportunity suddenly come to an end.
Be that my work at the Murray Group, agency nation, just choice.com, Penguin, when I worked for the fitness franchise, Metabolic, and now with Rogue Risk. So I'm mentally, physically, emotionally prepared for these types of changes in my life.
I work very hard and I'm a wartime general. I don't mean that as a badge of honor.
I mean it as a point of fact. You don't bring me into your organization when everything's running great.
You just want to kind of the slow roll of bureaucratic kind of onward movement, the maintenance of a business. You do not bring me in to maintain a business.
That is not my specialty. It's not how I'm wired.
It's not how I view the world. I am built psychologically to attack.
I want to grow. I want to optimize, make things more efficient, more effective, deliver more value to our customers, retain business, and ultimately drive top line growth.
That is what I do. And what I found is over and over again, that is, it's a very unique situation that has to be in place for that type of mentality to fit into a larger organization.
Most larger organizations are really interested in, generally, maintenance and sustainability, which I completely understand, and kind of entrepreneurial, aggressive growth that requires There's going down paths, learning lessons, failing, missing marks, iterations, pivots, et cetera, trying things, knowing that there's a 20% chance they might work. Those type of endeavors just do not fit inside of large organizations.
And that's not necessarily an endeavor on SA. That's just a general observation that I've made over the last 18 years of working in this industry.
So that all being said, Rogue Risk was wonderful. I will look back on it incredibly

fondly. I put in 60, 70, 80 hours a week for much of the three and a half years of its existence.

I, for two years, didn't take a salary, hired employees, was able to sell that business, and ultimately put some numbers on the board that I think clearly define and answer all the questions that any potential naysayers had about my ability to run an agency. So I want to walk through just super briefly for those who don't know the timeline.
So I launched Rogue Risk March 9th of 2020. Seven days later, COVID hits, the entire state gets shut down.
State of New York, that's the only state that we were licensed in at the beginning. So we did not sell our first policy until May.
We did not sell our first commercial policy until August. And then

by implementing what I call the one call close sales system, we were able to rapidly grow that

business on a completely bootstrap budget. So essentially from August of 2020 to April 22nd,

or April of 2022, sorry, we got that business to a we, I mean, we had five employees, myself included, although I was not taking a salary at that time. We were at five total employees the day that we sold to SIA in April 2022.
But while we weren't necessarily a huge company, we were growing quite rapidly. Most of that growth had come right up against the actual sale date because we were brand new coming out of COVID.
And while most people were running for the hills, figuring out how to get their agency management system to talk to an employee who was working from home, we were cranking, growing, building, creating content, building relationships and

systems and kind of becoming what the true human optimized agency that I had envisioned during the first 15 to 18 years of my career. So from that, we sold.
we added a net 12 employees-ish to those five, meaning we had hired some producers, we had hired different people, people would come and go. And in the early days of a company, you're going to have people that come and go very quickly.
There are going to be times when your business, when you're adding employees and they're fitting and there's going to be people that come in and you know within a month, they're just not a good fit. And frankly, we didn't know who was a good fit.
A human optimized agency, digitally native human optimized agency working in small commercial based primarily on inbound business flow had never been built before. I mean, there are a couple other examples, but there is certainly no template.
Certainly no one was doing it the way we were doing it and no one was using the one called closed system. So we didn't know what the personality structure was for who would fit, who wouldn't.
Ultimately, we did figure that out and say our last like five or six hires were right on the button and people were really crushing. So from April 22nd, or geez, I keep saying April 22nd, from April of 2022 to October of 2023, so about 17 months when we ultimately during the hardest market the industry has ever seen.
While most people are screaming and crying in their Facebook forums about how they can't figure out how to sell insurance in a hard market and what are they going to do, we were cranking. And all of that is in small commercial.
So, you know, we had figured something out. The one called closed process had worked.
And, you know, where we saw the real growth was in the closed ratio of our producers. So when new producers would come in, on average, their closed ratio would 40%.
And within three months, learning our process and a big shout out to my management team who helped kind of work through these structures, map out these processes and ultimately deliver them to the team. We were able to get those.
During the 18 months that I was selling directly and using this process, I was closing and I tracked this through the entire time at an 89.2% clip. So this process absolutely works.
We put more than a dozen producers through it. And I'm very, very confident.
I'm very proud of the work that we did because it takes a certain type of person to work this process. You can't have a chest-pounding, chest-thumping producer do this.
If your ego is the driving force of your sales process, which doesn't mean you can't be a good producer, and I am not knocking that structure, but if ego is what you want, you want to be able to post on LinkedIn your big kill that

you got in terms of a new client, this process is not for you because this process is about the

client and about creating a situation in which the client can't say no. Not because you pulled

some psychological trick on them, although everything in it has to do with psychology,

but because you've delivered so much value to them in a way that they've never heard before

I don't know. no, not because you pulled some psychological trick on them, although everything in it has to do with psychology, but because you've delivered so much value to them in a way that they've never heard before using time tested psychological principles that they can't say no when you deliver your proposal.
And that's how we got those close ratios. So that all being said, our niche was that we were a master generalist.
And this is where the big mistake, we'll dive more into this in future videos, but I just want to mention it here. The big mistake that I think many organizations, many individuals, and particularly thought leaders who want to stand on stage and thump some lectern and tell you that niches are in the, the niches are in the, riches are in the niches.
Yeah, I get that, but you don't define what a niche is. And I think that's the problem.
The problem is that we think industry class. That's it.
When we think I write, you know, I write plumbers or I write professionals. I write whatever it is.
Yes, except that's not the only niche that you can have. So our niche was our process.
We were working with people who were disenfranchised by traditional agents and direct writers. So they would find us online and they would want the human experience, but they would want it in a digital way.
And that's who we wrote. Small business owners who wanted the human experience in a digital way, what we called human optimized.
So traditional boots on the ground

agencies, they weren't writing these people because they're slow and needed face-to-face

contact. And, you know, just in general, we're not set up for digital business.
And they didn't

want the kind of direct writer, faceless situation that you get when you go direct to carriers.

Thank you. set up for digital business and they didn't want the kind of direct writer faceless situation that you get when you go direct to carriers.
They wanted something in the middle and that was us. I didn't care what kind of business you wrote.
We were a tumbler system. We were, if you've ever seen the show Gold Rush, we were a shaker deck, right? You'd throw all these opportunities in the top and then we would shake them out to the proper individual or on our team, the proper market, the proper workflow, et cetera.
And then using our one call close process, we were able to rapidly place that individual with the correct market. That's insane, right? And freaking cranking.
There's all kinds of tools that we used and workflows that we tested and you know used and then removed and ultimately fell on a process that worked incredibly well and again i'm going to talk about these tools in future videos talk about these processes in future videos um but uh you know we also did do some cold calling we did some cold emailing, but primarily uh, you know, we also did do some cold calling. We did some cold emailing, um, but primarily used inbound methodology to get there.

The stuff that I've been teaching you guys for more than a decade. So very, very proud of that work.

Um, you know, I have all kinds of different lessons, uh, that came out of this.

And again, this is going to be future videos.

So if you're not subscribed to my content, if you're not subscribed, whether you're listening

to this, the audio podcast, or you're watching on the YouTube channel, I encourage you to do so. And if you want to be one of the first people to be notified about the coursework that is coming down the pipe, that is going to teach you guys the one called closed process, you need to go to masterclass.insure.
So that's masterclass.insure. Wherever you're listening or watching this in the show notes, there will be a link as well.
Go in, put your name, put your email, and you'll be the first to know when we come out with more information around how you can learn and implement the one call closed process in your business, as well as how we got business, different lessons, different tools, processes, systems, practices associated with this particular methodology. So masterclass.insure is where you go.
So just to confirm the rumors, Rogue Risk is closed, but in all candidness, I have a very good working relationship with SIA. I hope to work with them again in the future in some capacity as a speaker or consultant, et cetera.
I wish them nothing but the best. I do honestly believe that they're doing great work and they have all the best intentions of their agents in mind.
It was a pleasure to work with them. And I just want to clear that part up.
But moving forward, I started a new company and that company is going to be Finding Peak. Finding Peak is going to be the next company.
It's going to be a broad set media company delivering education value to the industry. But I said in the title that I had a confession to make.
And that confession is that while here I am a month removed from the decision to shut down Rogue, I be very calm cool collected uh very positive which I am in the moment I had doubt I was disappointed

obviously a little shocked um I felt it was a shame to shut down Rogue because you know, I kind of put that up against just about anybody as well. All that being said, when the decision came down, you know, I had just personal doubts.
And I very much thought that this was another sign that I'm just not meant to be in the insurance industry. Like, what's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode.
But as you know, we do not run ads on this show. And in exchange for that, I need your help.
If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment if you're on YouTube, leave a rating review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow.
It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are gonna help you grow as a person and grow your business, but they all check out comments, ratings, reviews.
They check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help.
Share the show, subscribe if you're not subscribed, and I'd love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments, or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating review of this show. I love you for listening to this show.
And I hope you enjoy it. Listening as much as I do creating the show for you.
All right, I'm out of here. Let's get back to the episode.
Why is it that I keep doing things, keep pressing, you know, giving a project everything that I have, only to have it like ripped away from me? Right when we're like on the precipice of massive growth, I mean, look at Agency Nation, Elevate 2018, I'd still say Elevate 2018 is one of the best events that's ever been held in the history of the insurance industry. And, you know, I was fired three weeks after that.
You know, I was doing incredible work at the merger. That didn't work out.
Bull Penguin was just kind of a miss for a whole bunch of reasons. I grew the fitness franchise that I was with.
I mean, I know this insurance industry, but I grew at 900 members in nine months from 2100 to over 3000 members in nine months, only to have, you know, be fired from there. And none of those people said that it was because it was a jerk.
So I just don't understand necessarily what my disconnect is between large organizations in the insurance industry and my work. That being said, I think it comes down to the fact that I am a pure entrepreneur.
I am a wartime general. You don't bring me in during peacetime when things are good and you just want to kind of make sure the flow continues.
That is not what you bring me in. You bring me in when the world is on fire and you need to grow.
And that's what I'm good at because failure doesn't bother me. I'm willing to try multiple different things.
I'm willing to back out. I'm willing to pivot.
I'm willing to operate. I'm willing to admit when I've made a bad decision and change course.
I'm willing to try things. I'm willing to learn things.
I'm willing to hire people. I'm willing to work with people, mentor them.
But those are growth-oriented things and they come with failure. You are leaping out into the unknown.
And while you may have tools, you may have systems, processes, experience to lean upon, if you are really going to engage in growth, you don't know what is going to work. That is the big disconnect that most organizations have.
I think they can systematize their sales process and that somehow everything's just going to work out. And that is not the way that it works, right? You have systems, you have processes, you have tools, you have best practices, and all of those things are great until you approach the market and then it's you know the classic and cliche mike tyson quote which is you know everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face and that is what growth is growth is stepping into the ring and getting punched in the face and seeing what it feels like and if you can't take that if you can't handle you are not prepared to grow.
Now, sure you can grow through M&A. And my goal in my work moving forward is going to be to position organic growth alongside M&A.
M&A is incredibly important. I partner with some people that are going to help put out some amazing content around M&A because M&A, doing M&A right, whether you're sell side or buy side is incredibly important.
And if we're not getting great exits for our entrepreneurs, for our agency owners, then there's going to be less people that want to engage in this business because the exit isn't going to be there at the end. So we have to keep the M&A market healthy.
That being said, to get there, we have to start positioning organic growth alongside M&A. It has to be, these have to be two equal tools in our tool belt.
While we are acquiring agencies, we are also growing alongside those agencies organically. And that is how you get to logarithmic growth.
And it is that organic growth side that I want to teach this industry. Because while I questioned and I had this moment where I almost backed out of this industry again, I said, you know what? That I love this industry.
It has given me a life that I could have never, I could have never imagined the life that I have today when I was growing up. I grew up in a house that my friends referred as the crack house, right? I grew up in a town of less than 900 people.
Like we used to say, you can keep your doors unlocked in our town because the criminals didn't steal there. They lived there.
So to now be in the position that I'm in, it is because of the opportunities that exist in the space. However, I am very concerned that with things like hard markets, with consolidation, with, you know, this rapid transfer of information that isn't happening from the old generation to the new generation of agency owners, that these agency owners are having to basically recreate the wheel in some instances, that we are not going to be able, there's going to be a, there's going to be a sense of hopelessness with those middle to smaller agencies or even some of the larger call center type businesses, but there's going to be a sense of hopelessness with those middle to smaller agencies or even some of the larger call center type businesses but there's going to be a sense of hopelessness in organic growth and that shouldn't be the case especially in a hard market like what we're seeing right now we should be in killing it these opportunities are everywhere and how is the time to grow but you have to know what you're doing and this is my this is what i want to do this is what finding peak is is not not stepping away from the industry but doubling into the industry well you guys have never seen me on my own in a media enterprise we at finding peak and by we i mean i do have team, are about to launch an ecosystem of tools, of resources, of information, of connections, of events that over the next 12 to 18 months are going to blow your mind.
And what I mean by that is it's not going to be fluff. It's not going to be biased.
It's not going to be some sort of political organization where you have to go in and grab hand and rub elbows in order to get ahead. It's going to be about delivering max value to you so that you can create max value in your agency or in your career if you're a producer or whatever it is that you choose to do in this space.
Finding Peak is about getting you there. and I couldn't be more excited.
I'm trying not to yell.

I'm trying to be more composed in this video only because if if I let myself I would be standing and shouting into the microphone because I have 18 years of stuff of conversations with some of the best in the business I have connections into every organization that that exists in our space. And I want to give this to you because for so long, I felt like I had an anchor tied around my foot because I had to play some sort of political game that today I don't have to play.
And I'm sure there are organizations out there that don't particularly care for my flavor and black ball, they are not happy or whatever that's happened before. I don't necessarily care about that, but I don't have to pull punches.
I can work with the people that I believe are the best. I can showcase the organizations that are doing, in my opinion, the real work of helping agencies grow.
And I can do it at the pace and at the scale that I can actually deliver. It is fifth year as often as I want to go there.
And I couldn't be more excited. And I hope you are excited too, because while yes, I'm going to be charging money because I need to make an income and I need to make a living.
This is really my gift back to this industry. It's given me so much.
It's time for me to give as much as I can back. And there's just so much to give.
Frankly, I have hesitated in making this video for a week or two simply because there was so much I wanted to say. I didn't know what stuff I should put in and what stuff I shouldn't.
And I have pages and pages and pages of notes and ideas and concepts that I want to deliver to you over time. And if you're interested in this, if you're interested in being part of this, subscribe to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel and go to masterclass.insure, masterclass.insure, put your name and email in and get on that list.
Everything is going to start from that spot. Masterclass.insure.
Everything starts from that spot. As we start to, you know, first project is going to be the one call close sales system.
All right. There are so many more projects that are going to be coming out over the next 12 to 18 months.
But the very first project is not allowing the one call close sales system to die with rogue risk. It is getting it in your hands.
I couldn't be more excited to do it. Guys, I love you for listening to the show.
I love you for being part of my world. And if you need anything, comment on the YouTube channel, hit me up on socials socials.
I am here to help. We're going to

have opportunities to sponsor this show. We're going to have opportunities to sponsor the

newsletter. We're going to have events coming down the pipe.
We're going to have all kinds

of interesting things that are going to help you take your agency, take your insurance business,

take your sales career to the next level. And my friends, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Let's go. Thank you.
I'm out. close twice as many deals by this time next week sound impossible it's not with the one call close system you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call this is the exact method method we use to close 1,200 clients under three years during the pandemic.
No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast. Based in behavioral psychology and battle-tested, the one-call close system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes more than you ever thought possible.
If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning,

visit masteroftheclosed.com.

That's masteroftheclosed.com.

Do it today.

The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most

is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options,

which is why with USAA Auto Insurance,

you'll get great service that is easy and reliable

all at the touch of a button.

Get a quote today.

Restrictions apply.

USAA.