209. Intersection of Passion, Skill, and Need with Terry Kim

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There's a quote that goes like, discipline equals freedom.

I actually have that on my vision board because discipline is the thing that you have to work on.

In order to do all these organizing focus blocks, like if you don't have discipline, you won't be able to do any of that.

In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello everyone and welcome back to the show.
Today we have an absolutely tremendous episode for you. A conversation with the founder and CEO of NextGenT, NextGenTrainingAcademy, Terry Kim.
He is also the author of a new book, Zero to Engineer, a story of the American dream. Terry has a wonderful story.
He is an entrepreneur through and through, an incredible mindset, is all about peak performance, and just is the perfect kind of guest that we love here on Finding Peak because he's operating at a level of high achievement that most would love to get to. And not only that, he is sharing openly and honestly about what it takes to find your success, find the best version of yourself, and is really working at it.
You can tell how we work through this conversation, the casual, honest, authentic nature of the conversation, the type of person that Terry is. And just this is wonderful.
You're going to take a lot from it and just happy to share the show with you. Guys, if you love listening to the Finding Peak podcast, my only ask for you as every bit of this content is free and will be forever.
As far as the podcast goes, it is just share the show with friends, text it to a friend, email to a friend, send it to a group of people, share it with your team, share it on social media, however you prefer sharing the show helps the audience grow, helps more people find what we're doing, helps us connect with more incredible guests like Terry Kim, who I enjoy bringing to you so much. Obviously, I enjoy talking to these people, but I enjoy sharing

the conversations with you. This is how we all get better and how we all become the best versions

of ourselves, which is why we're here in the first place. So with all that, I love you for

listening to this show. Let's get on to Terry Kim.
All right. Well, so, so dude, I am excited to have you on the show.
Um, you know, uh, mutual friend James referred you to me said, Hey, this guy's awesome. Got to have him on the show.
Everybody sends over is awesome. So you have a very high bar to jump over.
No, I'm kidding. Um, but I was checking out yourself and loved it.
And I think the best place to start, I think, would be, you know, with your origin story. And again, go back as far as you think is relevant.
You know, this is one thing about the show, and I know you're not super familiar with it. And this is the first time we're chatting.
It's like, there's no rules here. This is conversation.
And whatever stories you want to tell, tell wherever you want to go we're gonna go so we're however far back you think is relevant to your story we can start there yeah so I'm gonna take you back to 1999 and this is when I didn't even know like how to turn on a computer and so like my my vision a career, let's say at 21, was really to be in the entertainment music industry. So I actually was a DJ for a few years in Korea.
And then I actually had a K-pop album, two albums. Really? Back in the day.
Yeah, a huge identity shift. know, at 21, at that time, now my ex-wife got pregnant.
And, you know, my family was like, man, babies come in, you know, you might want to look at a, you know, a different career path, something like that's more stable, things like that. And really, this movie called The Matrix, 1999 yeah i watched that movie and it literally lit up a spark inside me and i was like this is the future and it was like pre.com you know the bubble and so like all the tech companies were getting super hot ipoing and Silicon Valley, there was a huge boom.
And I learned how to build my first PC. I always thought, like, I was working at a hotel at Dragon Hill Lodge on base in Seoul, Korea.
And I had to do that to get my visa and to be able to stay in Korea because I'm actually a first-generation Korean-American, got naturalized at three.

And, you know, I really wanted to get into technology, and I thought it was the future, but I didn't know how to start.

So I built my first PC from ground up, and I was like, wow,

like I'm really a hands-on learner.

And I thought, you know, like college was a waste of time

because I took like one computer class or in a history class, and I was like, well, like college was a waste of time because I took like one computer

class or in a history class. And I was like, well, this is a, this is a complete waste of time.
And a lot of the things that I was being taught were also old, old stuff. And I wanted to work on the latest and greatest technologies.
So the long story short is I, I actually waited six months for a specialty job called the 3Charlie2 network controller. You needed a top secret clearance and it was to build infrastructure for the Air Force.
And I thought that job was so cool. I waited six months and then met my recruiter and got enrolled.
And I actually enrolled from Okinawa. And then they sent me to the U to the US for technical or basic training in Texas, Lackland Air Force Base.
And then I had four months of technical training and that's how I started my career was through the Air Force. And I served for five years and got out.
And yeah, and that's kind of the origin story right there. Now, building your first computer, like, there's a lot of people, most people, the vast majority of people, the idea of just building a computer.
I mean, I use computers every day. I would never even contemplate building one.
What do you think it was like that said to you, hey, I'm going to build one of these things. Like I had a computer in 1999.
The idea of making a computer never even came across my mind. So what do you think it is about your personality or just maybe whatever that enticed you to research, purchase the materials, put it together, figure out how to do it and how to make it work? Yeah, like I would say traditional education is like textbook heavy, right? Like listening to lectures and diving into books.
Well, I've always learned that I accelerate my learning process by getting my hands dirty. So like hands-on is how I learn.
Or looking over someone's shoulder, I can learn and absorb information like a sponge, but it has to be practical. So I think what led me to wanting to build my PC was actually because I used to love Legos.
I used to like, you know, growing up. And when I saw the technology for just IT in general, I knew that computers had to talk to one another.
When computers talk to one another, that forms a network. And I knew that, like, the internet booming, like, I wanted to work on what I call the plumbing of the internet.
The infrastructure of the internet is going to be so vast. And I saw that I had a glimpse, I felt like I had a premonition, like this is a future.
And, you know, just to give you some context, 1999, 1 million devices were only connected to the internet. Now we're at about 25 billion with the internet.
It's insane how much progress we've made or been connected to the online world in the last 20 years. But, you know, I said, like, if this is the end PC, I would love to know how all the components work.
The CPU is the brain. There's memory.
There's a hard drive. So my brain was like, let me just get all these pieces and put it together like a Lego.
And that's what just came up. I guess I was confident in being able to build it because maybe my Lego skills was let's buy all these separate components, power supply, motherboard, RAM, CPU.
And it just didn't seem like rocket science to me. I was like, you know what, I'm just going to, you know, buy all these pieces and yeah, put them together.
And when I built that first PC, it was a huge confidence booster. Like, wow, I just built my custom PC.
Let me load some software on it. And I would say that really also sparked my interest for gaming.
And so in my early years, I used a lot of starcraft and counter-strike but that allowed me to build my first custom gaming rig uh did it the first time you hit the switch did it did it turn on did it did it work the first time you hit the switch it did turn on yes it did and what's cool is in seoul there's this place called the yangson electronic market so i was like i went to this electronic market it's like all gadgets every store like you can think of like like it was it was like shopping in a big candy store for different components it was cool it was a very fun process but yeah i recommend that for anyone that wants to explore a career in IT. It's like, just build your first PC.
It builds up a lot of confidence. And then you actually know what the different components are.

And, you know, if you take any complex idea, the first thing, you know, like Tim Ferriss has this in some of his books, like The Four Hour Chef, like you just break down this complex subject or idea into chunks, into digestible chunks. And that's exactly what I did with the PC.
Yeah. Now, do you think that that type of process works for anything? Do you think it's particularly relevant to PCs and engineering? Because I've heard other people describe that type of thought process or mental model set where you take this large complex problem that seems overwhelming and unachievable.
But when you look at the component parts, well, I could do this. Well, okay, I could do this part.
And hey, this looks – I can do it. So is that something that is – let me ask it a better way.
Is this in a concept that has transcended your life? Or is it something that you particularly look at just in the engineering and IT world? I look at it with all processes or like tasks or goals. I really like using these frameworks.
So I'll give you an example. If you're an entrepreneur and you want to get a business up and running, I have this framework called dream, believe, create, execute, and focus.
So it's taking this huge idea of launching a company and saying, hey, how do I even start?

Right.

And the big framework is to dream.

You have to first dream of it.

But whether you're dreaming at night or you're dreaming during the day about this vision or product or problem that you're just so passionate about solving and then believing in that dream, because a lot of entrepreneurs or first-time entrepreneurs make the mistake is that they don't do anything about it because they don't believe in it. If they believed in it and believed in themselves or the idea, they would create a plan.
That's step three. You create a plan.
Once you create a plan, you execute that plan that you just created. And the last step is to just focus.
Follow on course until successful. That is the five-step framework to go after any idea and manifest it.
So that's just kind of one process that I've used year over year. And there's other kind of mental frameworks that I've used to take complex ideas or goals or tasks and just break it down into digestible chunks.
And it's less overwhelming. Yeah.
Do you know Tim Grover? He wrote Winning and winning and relentless he he has a video series that's out right now that's really good um called breakthrough and one of the one of the key components of the series this idea being all in and he talks about in there how how the vast majority of people love to talk about the things that they want to do, talk about their dreams, but they don't actually, they never actually believe them or, and in most cases, commit to them. And that is like, he said, if you can get through, and he's got this whole 10 step, whatever, but his idea is like the all-in phase to me can be the is probably the most important because we can dream anything right like i have good ideas every bad ideas every 10 seconds but if you don't actually believe in it and aren't actually willing and i think this goes hand in hand with that aren't actually willing to go all in on that idea then then creating a plan, executing and focusing never happened.
Or if they do, they're always a shade gray of what they could be, if that makes sense, at least from my perspective. You know, sometimes you hear people say, you know, I really want to be this thing.
I really want to be a writer. I really want to write a book.
Except how often do you write? Well, you know, I try to find some times on the weekend to write. Well, then you're not a writer.
You know what I mean? That's a hobby. That's different.
What do you think it is in your experience that keeps people from this, in your framework, it's believe or this all in phase, this phase where you go from idea to commitment? What is the hang up there? What do you think keeps people from making that jump? It's easy. Comfort.
People love comfort and they, most people do not like change. And so it's a scary jump.
And so for example, my dream job was to work at Cisco one day at 21. And I focused and stayed on that dream.
And at 31, I was there in a decade. I was at the top of my career.
And I was making, this is like 2012. I was making like 2010, 2012, making like 175 plus.
And so really good money, but really also felt like a clog in the wells. Like, hmm, I've reached the peak of my career.
Where do I want to take things next? And I had the startup idea. I had that big dream, seeing other engineers start tech companies and startups and business.
And, you know, I went, you know, I'm going to go all in on this thing. And so I literally saved up six months of savings and I quit my job when everyone thought I was crazy because I wanted to go all in.
So you, you, I think people get caught up is that they don't, they don't want to be in an uncomfortable situation. So that transition, that commitment becomes hard.
Whereas if you really, truly believe in that dream and you're passionate about it, it's not just like you're just chasing money and there's actually meaning and purpose. That's when I think the commitment becomes easier and you can go all in.
And when you go all in, you shouldn't half-ass it.

You should burn the boats, right? And then you'll figure it out along the way because it's a new venture, but it's a hero's journey. And if you're okay with learning new set of skills, every time you have an identity shift, that's okay.
That's part of the journey. And that's where the beauty lies in my opinion.

You know, I've said this before on the show, and I'll probably say it 10 million more times. Every decision that I've made where money was more than a negligible factor has been a decision that has either ended poorly or ended up being up being a nothing burger, right? Like it either was a net neutral, you know, nothing really happened or came of it, or it was actually a negative outcome when money was anything more.
It doesn't mean you can't want to be want to make money and want to be wealthy. I mean, that's perfectly fine.
I'm capitalist. I have no problem with that.
But when, as you said, and I love it, chasing the money, I love how you put that. When you're chasing the money, those decisions, they never end up aligning with, I think, your ability to do what's necessary over the long term.
I think a certain amount of money, survival money, is probably motivational enough to persevere. But once you hit survival money, it's just not going to push you through those moments where it feels like everything's falling apart.
You're going to bail. You're not going to make the right decisions.
And I love that the way you phrased that of chasing money. It just to me is exactly right.
That's correct. There's a Harvard study, I believe.
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Peace. Let's get back to the episode.
That state, they did a study group and they were showing in this report that if you make over like minimum 72,000 or something like that, that the happiness lever doesn't go up beyond that, right? So like in the United States, if you have food, shelter, water, all that covered, it's like, what is your ikigai? So there's a Japanese concept called ikigai where it's your passion. Like, what do you love? And what does the world need, right? In terms of product or service, right? And like, what's your skills? What are you really good at? Or what are some skills you want to learn? Yeah, because you're passionate about this, and then you get paid for it.
So that is a very powerful concept of Ikigai that we can kind of reflect on as we think about these dreams and goals that we have. And not everyone needs to start a business or whatnot, but if you have this kind of icky guy and kind of entrepreneur mindset, you could also do really well in a Fortune 500 or Fortune 100 company as well.
And it will pay a lot of dividends because that is the magic. That's where the magic happens and you're able to go into flow yeah now flow for me is something that i mean obviously i mean i don't want to i'm going to say the word that i believe in it i think everyone does i think we call it a bunch of different things when you're you know when you're an athlete it might be in the zone um you know how everyone gets there tends to be slightly different, but there are some core activities.
I mean, I guess my question is more, do you cultivate flow states or do you just accept them as they happen? Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I would say both.
I would say one is your why. Like you have to know your why, your mission.
So for me, starting NGT Academy, I was just really sick to my stomach to see people drowning in student loan debt, 100 to 200,000 in student loan debt, chasing these, you know, American Institute of Tech or back in the day was ITT Tech.

Yeah, they were huge. They were doing like 800 million a year and selling these $85,000 network admin degrees.
And I knew that was a scam, like call it what it is, you know, lack of better word that you didn't know, need to go to college for four years. Like I was an instructor with a top secret clearance that had to take 18 year old high school graduates and get them ready for the battlefield to set up mission critical networks, right? Because they could get deployed to Afghan any, any time.
And so it's about skills training. It's about, can you perform on the job? And I knew that you could train people in an apprenticeship model of teaching them real-world skills and validating those skills versus having them memorize a bunch of books and questions so they can pass a quiz or a test.
And then we say that's their aptitude. Yeah, you can do that all day long, but these college graduates with diplomas drowned in 100K student loans still can't get a job in IT and they're wondering why.
It's because they haven't learned the actual skills. You could read about playing a guitar all day long, but until you pick up that guitar and start messing messing around with it you're not going to learn the skills of actually becoming an artist so same same rules applied to engineering as well yeah i i struggle with this because i got so i got two kids nine and nine and seven soon to be ten and eight and um you know even though we're a ways off we're not that far off and from from them you know college being something that starts to come up and i i struggle with this so much because you know i i went to college i went to college my the reason i chose the college is because they gave me the most money I was a poor kid I was super poor Going to college was not even

You know

My parents

When I told my parents

When I came home and said

Guys

I think I want to go to college

My mom was like great

You know what I mean

It was like there was no expectation

There was no

Nothing

She just

You know

She was happy obviously

But like the idea

If I didn't go

It wouldn't even have come up

You know what I mean

And

Yep So my And my point in saying all that is like I idea, if I didn't go, it wouldn't even have come up. You know what I mean? And so my, and my point in saying all that is like, I went to wherever I went.
I went mostly because they would pay me to play baseball when I went there. So that was great.
Uh, I have a degree. Uh, I don't use the degree at all ever.
I don't know that I remember one singular thing that I learned the entire time that I was there. And my point saying that is, what is the use case for college today? Like, everyone's like, oh, well, if you're a doctor.
Well, yeah, but, like, you could just go to doctor school for that, right? Like, why do you need to go to a four-year school and then go to doctor school? Like, if you're going to be you could just go to engineering school like if you want to be you know i look at so the industry um like the foundational industry of my career is the insurance industry and and we took um from day one i i founded a national commercial insurance agency is my background and from day day one, high school diploma was all you had to have.

You never had a college degree to work at our agency.

I never even thought anything of it.

I just growing up where I grew up, I knew a lot of smart people that don't have college degrees that run successful plumbing businesses and contracting businesses and bakeries and all different shit around town.

You know, I live in New York and they don't have college degrees they you would never know today you'd never know so i didn't even think of it and it came out about a year ago there was a conversation happening and i said like in a forum at a conference one time like we don't require a college degree and it was like the look in the audience was like, it was like, oh, what?

You know, and then some people started clapping, but you could tell like there was an uncomfortableness around even saying that out loud. One, why do you think that stigma still exists considering everything we know about college today and about the expense, etc.? and do you see this as a continued movement as we go to organizations like yours where

where i can get the exact education I want knowing that I'm going to be highly trained and I don't have to deal with all the fluff and it's going to be at a cost that actually allows me to be successful in life and doesn't bury me like do you see what do you think this hesitation is and and do you see this trend continuing? Yeah, I think the hesitation is that like we've been brainwashed as a society that college equals more dollars and more stable careers. So that being rooted into our public education system as we get older, think about when you went to high school, what is everyone doing? Preparing for college, right? SATs, like it's all indoctrinated.
So to change, you know, like, I don't know, 70 years of programming, like, like that's, that's hard to, you know, do overnight. We have students that still think that they have to go to college.
And when it didn't work out for them, because why? Here's an interesting stat that will blow you away. 53% of college graduates do not get jobs in their field.
So what are we doing now? Oh, let's, okay, mom and dad, let me flip a coin. Am I going to get my job my job literally you're spending four years to flip a

coin yeah to see if you can land that job that you want where in it like doctor back like you

need to know a lot of like reading and textbook if you want to be a doctor and lawyer those are

great career fields for college or even if you want to be a scientist but when it comes to

information technology i'm basically giving the entire playbook in my newly released book, Zero to Engineer, Story of American Dream, is that you don't need to go to college for four years when you can train for four months, get two IT certifications under your belt, and I guarantee you will be able to get a job interview. And if you do great on that job interview, that's what gets your foot in the door.
And IT usually will pay like anywhere from 40 to 80,000 starting out. And within just a short couple of years, you can break six figures.
And that's the beauty of this job market. I think moving forward with Google, Uber, Tesla, everyone's saying college degree is not a requirement anymore.
We were really doing skills assessment, aptitude testing is potentiality, but now employers are wanting more skills-based talent coming into the workforce. So I think the theme is changing and NGT Academy, we're at the forefront of reprogramming people's mind that there is truly an alternative, what we call technical or vocational training.
And it's the faster way, because by the time that guy that enrolled in that IT degree, four years, our students would be three to three and a half years already into their job. And that means that they're probably going to be promoted to like a mid-level role, you know, by the time that college student graduates trying to get his first job.
Yeah. Now, this idea of apprenticeship, in my opinion, is a way better way to go.
Do you see a lot of mid-career individuals coming over, like someone who, hey, I went to college, thought I wanted to be an accountant. I got 10 years in and just said, man, I don't love this.
I've always loved computers. I've always loved IT.
And now they're looking at NGT Academy as an opportunity to make a transition. Are you seen a lot of those type of people as well? Absolutely.
80% of our students that enroll are people that are switching careers. And they usually, eight out of 10 times already have a bachelor's degree in a non-related or even an IT-related field, and they just haven't been able to break through yet.
So yeah, we've been able to take people that are switching careers. We've even had a student, Carl Scott.
He's on our IG, the reel on him, and it's an amazing story. He was a bike rider in New York City doing errands and bike delivery for businesses making $400 a week.
And he was 60 years old and he came to our program. And in nine months, we placed him at a consulting firm, a big one, part of the big four called Accenture.
And his starting salary was 102,000 as a cybersecurity consultant analyst. So that kind of shows you, right? Like he, at 60, he didn't want to go back to college for four years.
Right. But you know, switching, like you can be like in any job we've taken like a forklift driver, literally now he works at Google and manages their entire wide area infrastructure team.
So it's like game changing stuff. Why is that possible? Cause we're the real deal.
Me and my co-founder, we were instructors in the Air Force and we had both six-figure careers in IT as architects. So it's like, if you want to fast track learning any skillset, I always recommend find someone who's done it, right? Like we're a school who's done it and placed thousands and thousands of students into amazing careers.
So it's like, yeah, find someone who's done what you want to do and figure out a shorter path to it. Don't always believe that there is this one single path and only, you know, college is the only answer, right? That's where people really mess up on.

What kind of impact do you think your military career

and then being a trainer in the military

had on your ability to take these concepts

and package them in a way that allows people

to reach a level of expertise

as quickly as you're getting them to?

Do you think, I mean, did it play a major role? Is there something special about the way the military trains people, et cetera? Yeah, military is about job readiness. So the way they train is skills-based, right? And that's a big difference.
So it carried a big, big role into my thought process around training in itself. So I would say absolutely.
It had played a vital role because we knew it could be done. We knew we could train people to become engineers within four months of training.
In fact, like we, we were pretty much the highest, you know, had the highest re-enlistment bonus because of the skills that you would learn to be a tech controller. Now it's called 3Delta Cyber Ops Command.
And they merged a couple like network and system admin careers together. And now if you think about it, if I think about the military days,

it's like tech school. Think about air traffic controllers, another super complex job to learn

and to master. And that training was six months, right? Not four years, right? Because military,

they don't have time to mess around. These people are signing up for four-year enrollment.

So the training has to be compressed. It has to be real.
It time to mess around. These people are signing up for four-year enrollment.

So the training has to be compressed.

It has to be real.

It has to be practical.

And that's fundamentally different than a college institute objective.

Their objective is to do two years extended general studies.

Like, why do you even do that, right? Like, that's like taking high school kind of subjects and extending it for two more years.

And so it's like if that's why colleges also have started to adopt one year certificate programs because they're seeing these vocational schools like us doing it faster, cheaper and better than what they're used to. Right.
So if you take any complex idea, going back to Tim Ferriss' DISC method, I don't know if you've ever heard of that. Yeah.
This DISC method is pretty amazing. It stands for D for deconstruction.
So taking that complex thing and breaking it out into units or modules. S for selection, taking the 20% Pareto through, what's going to give 80% of the results.
So selecting out of once you deconstructed it and then sequencing it in a particular order and then having some stakes in the ground. So you have that commitment to be able to get through this project or this complex idea or goal you have.
I love that. That was from, is that from the four-hour work week? Or was that from the four-hour? That's from the four-hour chef.
Chef, yeah, from the chef. I know.
To learn anything. Actually, I take that back.
It is from the four-hour work week. Yeah.
To learn anything you want. But he expands upon it in the chef.
I feel like in the four-hour chef is where he really takes that and runs it out a little more um you know the interesting thing about i mean this is contextual but the interesting thing about about the four hour work week is that and he even said this a couple weeks ago on his podcast like even though every tool that he talks about is completely defunct or and or not the best in class tool that exists anymore. The process that he works through disc, and there's a couple of others in there.
Yep. Completely relevant, completely applicable to today.
And it goes back to what, to your process and what you said about breaking down these things into smaller chunks. So they're manageable, they feel achievable.
And then, you know, it also comes up with the concept and just, just as an entrepreneur you know a fellow entrepreneur and and and someone who's done a lot of really interesting things um and this is something i even struggle with is is you know something and this is something tim talks about because i know he also struggles with it is celebrating those small milestone wins so that you feel that continued momentum Like Even if you do break it up in chunks, a lot of times high achievers or fast movers, you finish the thing and you should give yourself a moment to go like, yeah, I did that. I got phase one done.
Instead, we just plow right through it, keep burning the candle and get into two. So for you know, for, for, for you, you know, you've built NGT, you've now written a book.
Um, do you have a, you have a, uh, a sleep mask company as well that I see that you founded and run? Like, you know, how do you, when you have all these projects going on, all these things you're trying to do, uh, you're obviously an ambitious guy, incredibly intelligent guy. How do you keep yourself focused when you have multiple projects going on at once? How do you prioritize which thing needs your attention now when there's an onslaught of things coming on? I think that's something particularly today a lot of people struggle with.
Yeah. So it goes down to really, when I look at any projects or goals, it's just getting super organized.
So as easy as this may sound, a lot of people don't do it. So it's like, for example, I have a team.
We do daily standups and we talk about what we did yesterday, talk about what we're going to work on today, and we talk about any blockers. And that's a daily cadence.
So stand-ups are very important for accountability and making things move every day. And then for yourself, it's really organizing what are just your top three goals, right? Like just top three goals.
Apply the 80-20. Like if I knock this out, this is the 20-80 that's going to make 80% of my impact for the day.
So it's like, what do I want to accomplish today? You know, in my top three, like this podcast interview was one of those top three goals. And so setting up an evening routine, setting up a morning routine, so you know exactly when you wake up, this is what I'm going to work on.
So that is one, to know what you're going to work on every day and prioritizing by the top three and then creating focus blocks. So on my calendar, I like to block things out like two hours at a time where I can work on something and I can get excited about it.
So I put notes in there, I put whatever I'm going to focus on and it's uninterrupted time. And I recommend getting into flow state in the morning and one in the afternoon.
So now you have two flow states where you can get a lot of work done and it's focus work. And if there are work is if there's work that you feel like is easy, like do them really quick in the morning and it allows you to stack the wins and you can stack your wins.
Like there is a scientific research now that shows that if you are going to wake up and make your bed every morning, right, this is why the military does this. Like they'll wake you up at four and you have to make your bed and within like one minute, like 60 seconds to make your bed, five minutes to go in the shower, shave and like literally come out for roll call.
So why do they do that in like five minutes? That's freaking crazy. Well, it's about, you know, getting stuff done in a rapid manner and just being able to apply discipline.
Because one, you know, there's a quote that goes like, discipline equals freedom. I actually have that on my vision board because discipline is the thing that you have to work on in order to do all these organizing focus blocks.
Like if you don't have discipline, you won't be able to do any of that. So when I have multiple projects, I only work on projects.
If you're a first time entrepreneur, go heads down on one idea. Now, as you, you know, get, get more matured and you can handle multiple projects, it's like, are all your projects things you're passionate about? Right? And that'll weed out the noise because you have to say no.
As a founder, as an entrepreneur, you have to say no to a lot of things. And that gives you clarity on focused projects.
And I truly believe that any founder entrepreneur, a high level entrepreneur can juggle multiple projects. It's like, are those projects meaningful? Are they really things that you really want to work on? Right.
So, yeah, that's my advice for that. And there's always this pareto where a lot of people think like you have to work 80 hours a week for one idea.
There are so many case studies where you could work on a side project only doing 10 hours a week. The founder of 37 Signals that founded Basecamp, David Hanemeyer Hansen, DHH they call him, he actually started Basecamp while he was going to college and doing that part-time, like very minimum, like 10, 15 hours a week.
But what that also provides is when you block out your time and you, instead of like giving yourself 40 hours, right. Or like, here's a better example.
Some people write a book and like you said, they'll take forever to write that book. Why? Cause they given, they're like, I'm going to work on this book.
I heard writing a book takes years. Well, yeah, if you allot two years to write the book, it's going to get done in two years.
But what if you said, hey, I'm going to knock this book out in one week, which is what I did, which probably sounds crazy to a lot of people. But I was like, who are the people that are writing books in one week? And I bought this course on how to write a book over a weekend.
And basically, you know, I got super focused. I got a cabin out in the woods up in North Arizona.
And I went there, you know, for like four, four days. And I just cranked out this book with, without any interruption.
And, and that's all I needed. Cause I gave myself only four days.
Yeah. Like literally.
So like what, if you have that pressure, I'm not saying everyone can work under this pressure, but I work really good on the pressure. And when things are compressed and there's a, there's an absolute deadline.
Yeah. Have you read the book? Uh, 10 X is easier than two X by Benjamin Hardy.
No, I would highly recommend just based on what you've said to me so far. One, I think you'll frigging love it.
It's my number one book for 2023. Absolutely phenomenal.
Ben Hardy wrote this book with Dan Sullivan. And the whole concept, you know, to break it down in a nutshell, there's tons of good stuff in here.
I mean, I just from what you're saying, I think you'd love it. So I'm going to recommend it to you.
I've recommended it to the audience a bunch of times. But the core concept is most of us think in 2X goals.
I made $75,000 this year. I would like to make $150,000 in five years, right? That's my one, 2X where I'm at.
Okay, great. The problem with 2X goals is that there's 10,000 ways to get there, right? To go from making $75,000 a year to $150,000 a year, honestly, for an able-minded, able-bodied adult, there's 1,000 ways for you to do that.
But when you 10x a goal, if you say, I made $75,000 this year, I want to make $750,000 next year. There's only going to be one, maybe two ways to get there.
That's it. And what it forces you to do is take all these options, all these distractions, all these different paths and say, nope, if I honestly, if I, to your thing, to believe, to step number two of your process, right? If I want, if I actually believe that what I want is 700, you know, just saying that $750,000 in personal income, there's only one way I'm going to get there.

And it's going to be specific to me, whatever that way is.

But I have to do this.

I have to do better than anybody in the world.

And I have to do this thing over and over and over again.

And I can get there.

But there's only one thing.

And that to me, like saying it out loud to you, I'm like, duh, right?

Like,

Thank you. in the world and I have to do this thing over and over and over again and I can get there but there's only one thing and that to me like saying it out loud to you I'm like duh right like duh that makes sense but it took reading that book and hearing the stories and hearing the concepts and you know the way he frames it and Ben Benjamin Hardy is a great writer um man I got to the end of the book and it literally changed 2023 for me because all of a sudden I went, oh my God, I have like 15 irons and irons in the fire.
And I thought that that was like a badge of honor. You know what I mean? I got this and I'm working on this and I'm working over here and I'm like, yet I'm not putting all of myself into any of these things.
So then I, you know, kind of collapsed that and I'm actually doing, um, I don't know if you've ever done this, but this is a really cool project. Uh, highly recommend accountability buddy, but I'm doing, um, uh, Darren Hardy's different guy, uh, different family, uh, living your best year ever.
So this is, this is an accountability program and, uh, you got to find someone who is equally ambitious, who is going to be honest with you. You have to find the right accountability partner or this program does not work.
I tried it once by myself, did not work. With the right accountability partner, this is an incredible framework because essentially what it does is it forces you to focus on only three things.
And then every single week you have to show up and there's a whole thing to it, which I'm not going to get into, but every single week you have to show up and there's a whole thing to it which i'm not going to get into but every single week you have to show up and report what you said you would do to get to those three banner goals and then what you're going to do for the next meeting and then your partner does the opposite and you hold each other accountable to the things you said you would do and but but what it does is it takes and you have to come all the way down. And there's there's like two months worth of work leading up to when you actually pick your goals.
And this goes back to something else you said. And it's why I'm taking so much time on this topic.
So I apologize. But you had talked about people don't slow down to actually do the planning work.
And my point in all of this rambling is that in this program, literally there are like two, it's like six weeks to two months worth of work before you figure out what your goals are for the year. I mean, and people don't take 10 minutes to think about what their goals are.
And this program is forcing you to take two months. And I think that just speaks to, you know, the whole, you know, what's Abraham Lincoln, if I were gonna, if I were gonna spend six hours chopping wood, I'd spend four hours sharpening my axe.
Like, yeah, we just don't take that time. We don't slow down.
We don't focus. And therefore, we end up scattered all over the map working on things that we don't even actually want to do.
Exactly. We live in a dopamine society, right? Everything is like scrolling, reaction, chasing shiny objects.
And it's a lot of distraction, to be honest. When you don't have meaning or purpose in your life, you get distracted and you're always chasing stuff.
When in reality, I'm in my 40s now and I realized that working on yourself is the most important thing you can do as an entrepreneur, like working on yourself. And

if you work on yourself, you will be able to slow down. You will be able to create a master plan because you spent time to be in stillness, to reflect.
What's your values? What are you truly passionate about? What's your objective for building this business? Like, why do you want more money? Is it impact or money?

You have to spend time reflecting on these things.

And I promise you, if you do these things,

things will execute in a more beautiful way

with consistency and without distraction and focus.

And ultimately, if you can combine discipline and focus, you will be able to achieve anything you want in this life. You know, I want, I think that's beautiful.
And I completely agree with you. One of the things that I found, again, I'm also in my, in my forties.
And at this point in my career, when I'm talking to other successful entrepreneurs or business professionals or people who are successful in whatever it is they do. Early in your career, mid-30s, early 30s, 20s for sure, and before that, you're just a dummy.
You know, what you just said, stillness, time, working on yourself, those are thought almost or seen as or characterized, unless it's some influencer spewing platitudes. Those things are often seen as like fluffy, extraneous, luxurious things that people don't have time for.
Yet at this age, talking to the people that I find in my life to be the most inspirational, most admirable, successful, they would say what you just said, that they have in their career built space that allows them to go for a walk without headphones or do cold plunge and then read a book or whatever their thing is, right? Go for a run. Whatever their thing is that allows them that moment of headspace, they all take it.

And that is a clear maturation point in a successful individual's life, whether it's

being a successful spouse or partner, parent, fundraiser, entrepreneur, guitar player, whatever.

I feel like at some point you mature into this phase where you go, you know what? The only way to get to the next level is to actually build space and time into my life. If you are speaking to someone, and I think this is such a powerful point.
That's why I'm kind of taking some time on it. If you were, someone's listening to this and there's a wide range of individuals who listen to this show, I'd say 70% to 65 to 70% of the people that listen are in the insurance industry because that's the foundation of where I came from.
And then there's a whole group of other people that have come in and just are interested in the entrepreneurial stories and peak performance and all that kind of stuff. If someone's listening to this and they're going, you know, I just, man, I just can't slow down.
I just feel like if I slow down, I'm not going to, you know, what, what would be your pitch for the stillness for the, that taken that time? What's your, what's your pitch then being someone who has done it and it's been very successful with it? Yeah. What I like to do is go, go on like a retreat, right? So this could be done in a mastermind setting.
Um, but I would say, you know I'd recommend going on a solo trip. Solo trip in nature.
In nature, you're going to be able to find stillness and you'll be able to calm your mind and you'll be able to really have time for self-reflection. And, you know, meditation is one of the most powerful tools as we have as entrepreneurs it's like if i have a tool bag like i've got biohacking stuff i've got meditation and i've got skills building and learning and learning is a non-stop you know process but when it comes to self-development people lack the intention and understanding there's huge benefits that might not be monetary, but it's having peace, it's having purpose.
And these are the things that's going to allow you to stay more focused. So it's like spending five days out in nature once a year for that time to reflect is going to be the most powerful advice that I could give you is to disconnect from, you know, whatever life you have and spend time alone and create that space for yourself.
Cause you know, having partner, girlfriend, wife, and kids, like, like you have to get out of that routine because it's going to be like rinse and repeat Monday through Friday. Here's my weekend, blah, blah, blah.
So that's my advice for that. It's a pattern interrupt, essentially.
Yes, exactly. So there's a great quote.
One of my favorite quotes is, when old patterns are broken, new worlds emerge. And I love this quote because it's like, if you want to change your life, it's like you need to change a few things.

You need to change your patterns, your habits, which is your habits and your rituals and your beliefs. And what are your values and your beliefs and your habits and your rituals? Because if I audit your habits and rituals and your belief system, I can promise you that's going to equate to how your current reality is manifesting for you.
Yeah, I completely agree. Terry, I want to be cognizant of your time and of the audiences.
This has been an incredible conversation. If someone's listening to this and they are interested, obviously you have the book, we can get, I'll have it linked up in the show notes for everybody.
You can get it on Amazon. I'm sure wherever books are sold, you can find the brand on IG.
Where's the best place for people to connect with you, follow you, get into your world. You've shared, you know, I'm sure what is the tip of the iceberg of what you know, but some really incredible things.
And I want people to be able to connect with you further. Yeah.
So if you want to connect with me, you know, I talk all about like I used IG primarily. So Project Kim, you can follow me there.
And I talk anything from biohacking, breathwork, meditation, spirituality to startups, fundraising, and business.

So you can follow me there.

And you could also just sign up for my newsletter on projectkim.com.

That's tremendous.

Tremendous.

Dude, I appreciate you.

I love what you're doing.

I love the fact that you're bringing education to people in a way that they can afford.

Because to me, as a kid that didn't grow up with a lot, with basically nothing, I got, I feel like I hit the jackpot

that I had enough athletic ability to get a scholarship.

But I think back on the fact that if I did, if that didn't happen for me,

I would have never gone to college.

It would not have happened.

And my life would have been way different.

And the access to education that can amplify our lives

and the way that you're doing it with NGT is incredible to me.

I'm so happy you've had a chance to connect. Hopefully it will not be the last.
Dude, I wish you nothing but the best. Yes.
Thank you for having me on the show. And for your viewers, if you go to zero to engineer.com forward slash book, you can get this book for free.
You just have to pay for shipping. Ah, so tremendous.
We'll have that linked up too. That's awesome.
I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that's tremendous.

We'll have all of it linked up guys,

or just go directly there either way.

Um,

highly recommend it and appreciate you,

bud.

All right.

Appreciate you,

right?

I'm going to shampoo. Thank you.
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