RHS 149 - Chris Greene on Content Marketing as a Competitive Advantage

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read and follow pestic to the show. Today we have an absolutely tremendous episode for you, a dynamic conversation about marketing, the insurance industry, what it means to have a niche with Chris Green, the flood insurance guru.
Now, Chris, the things that he's done from a content marketing perspective are nothing other than absolutely outstanding. He leverages HubSpot has fully dived in.
He leverages Marcus Sheridan's concept of they ask, you answer and fully dived in. And really, that's what I appreciate and respect the most about Chris is that when he makes a decision to take action in his business or in some other aspect of his life, he goes all in.
He focuses on it. He attacks it.
And he sees it through. And there's so many lessons to learn from Chris, not just as a person, but in the way he handles himself in our industry.
And this is just a tremendous conversation that I think you're really going to enjoy. I know I did.
Make sure you connect with Chris on LinkedIn, all the socials, all that kind of stuff. Because if you're watching what he's doing and taking notes, you're going to get better at marketing your agency.
It's just absolutely positively the case. So with that, I want to give a quick ask to you guys.
I put a lot of episodes out.

We put an episode out every Thursday.

I appreciate you listening.

I love you for listening, and I've said that for years.

Guys, if you enjoy these shows, just share it with somebody.

That's really my ask today.

Just text it to somebody, or if you want to share it in social, whatever, email an episode to a friend and just say, hey, I think there's something here. I think this episode is fun, whether it's this episode or another one.
Guys, sharing the show, more people find it, more people get into our ecosystem. I get more inbound suggestions for guests.
I get more people kind of sending ideas and tips and thoughts in and I listen to all that stuff. I read all those DMs and it helps us get more content, more great guests, more great information in front of you guys.
So if you're enjoying the show, if you're loving the show, always love a rating and review on iTunes. That helps more people find the show but really sharing the show is the thing that's most important because when a friend tells another friend that something has value, they often take action on it.
And if you find value in this show, I'd love you to share with a friend, man. I mean, that's the whole deal.
So with that, guys, love you for listening to this. Let's get on to Chris Green.
Yo, what's up, man? Can you hear me okay hear me okay? Yeah you're good. What's going on? Not much man.
How are you? I am uh I just want to start by apologizing for bailing on you twice two different times. I'm glad we finally connected.
I'd like to do it. I know you got so much going on in the world professionally personally right now, but yeah, I know.
Yeah. I appreciate, I just, I appreciate you being, being good to me about it.
Cause yeah, I for everyone listening at home, we we've had this schedule. This is the third time now.
And twice I had to bail because with everything with SIA and whatnot, you know, just different meetings pop up and we're doing so much to like offload

services from rogue to SIA to kind of free us up to do our thing that

sometimes they just have to be done. So either way,

I'm glad we're finally getting a chance to chat. You know, big news,

biggest news in the insurance industry. You had a suit on the other day.

That's like one of the big, big, the earth shaking,

universe shaking things. That's like I tell my friend Jason Katz.
I always expect the unexpected. So what's going on in your world, man? What's up? I'm spending a lot of time on data right now.
Yeah? Yeah. Trying to change the flood insurance world right now through data.
It's kind of exciting to this point now where we're getting to a point kind of like with you, where you can take that money, you can actually invest in the business, you can invest in the technology. And so I went and hired a glove boxes developer, and we've got about a year long worth of projects.
We just tapped into FEMA's database yesterday and basically pulled the entire FEMA database in the HubSpot. And like what is, when you say working with data, like what's your, what problem are you trying to solve? Like, what are you trying to do? What the problem I'm trying to solve is that like I spoke last week at CIPC, I said insurance is not the problem.
I said risk is. The problem is that we don't know, we don't do a good job of knowing the risk, understanding the risk and reducing the risk.
And we don't show the property or the prospect that. So we got to find a way to do that.
So that's exactly what we're doing with all these risk analysis companies, pulling things in and actually showing people the same thing that an underwriter is seeing. But how do we change that data? You know, how do we reduce that risk? Now, how do we create long term rate stability in the market by doing that? Yeah.
That's interesting. So how do you do that? Like, what does that look like? For as much as I like technology and marketing and shit, like data is not my specialty.
And it's not money. Like I tell people, I'm a visionary.
I'm just not going to very implement it. And that's where the developers really helped me now.
But now I can give a flood score to every property with all these different factors. I can tell you how long it's going to take water to enter your property where it's going to enter it hey how do we change from that water entering the property you know what can we do and literally we can based on the data we have all these different videos these different steps we can walk people through part of the video proposal system yeah I um so I was talking to geez I don't know if it was Carruthers or I was talking to somebody and I was talking through, we were talking about HubSpot and obviously we use HubSpot and we have big plans for what we want to do and as we continue to build stuff out.
And I think, you know, it, I love the system so much and I don't want to go too nerdy just

on HubSpot, but like, I think what a lot of people don't realize about that particular tool is with their operations hub that they've added and the wide open, um, API portal that they've built, you can essentially take any database or data or system that is, pushing, pulling data, and now plug it in. And man, it opens up the world as to what you can actually build and what it can look like.
So yesterday, we finally got version one live. And so we got the latitude and longitude.
And our developers are like, look, we got the latitude and longitude there's nothing we can't do now yeah google maps everything like pulling

pictures into these proposals off of the google api like having the longitude and the latitude when you're talking about this property stuff that's the golden nugget right there yeah yeah Yeah, that's really interesting.

So, you know, I guess, I guess what I'm interested in is like a lot of the pushback that I get, I'm interested in where you get this pushback to is people will, what I get is, Hey, I think it's cool that you're interested in all this into technology, into systems, into pushing forward, into new ways of doing business, blah, blah, blah. But you can write a lot of insurance just doing it the regular way.
Like, what is the improvement percentage? What is the upside potential of going down these paths of leveraging data? Like, I guess, you know, what is the opportunity cost versus, you know, I can just keep doing it the way I'm doing it and probably grow a business and probably make money. You know, why do the extra work? Why figure out these ways to put images and proposals and figure out different, you know, why go through all the effort? What does it get you? Well, for me, what it gets me is, like I tell people, I said, look, we can charge for this because trust me, we're paying a lot of money for it.
But think about the value that we can bring to our referral partners. Let's just say a David Carruthers goes in and meets with a middle market account.
He's one of our referral partners. Now they've got this full flood risk analysis report that completely helps separate them from everyone else.
They're being able to show that to them on their building, the value that it brings to them. Now we've got a referral partner for life now.
Yeah. That's the value of the technology to us is, Hey, how can we help our referral partners grow their business? How can we help them look like rock stars?

Because at the end of the day, like I tell people, I said, the technology is not about me writing more insurance. It's about us changing insurance.
It's about exchanging risk. That's the difference between us and most insurance agents.
At the end of the day, it's not about us writing a bunch of insurance. It's about, hey, how do we create a more stable insurance market? Yeah.
And is that how you're getting a lot of your business is referral partners, agents who don't understand flood or need more expertise on flood or is still the inbound content game or is it still, is it a big mix or how's all that working? Well, it's, you know, a lot of it is coming from the agents, but then, you know, a realtor emails you at 10 o'clock. I'm not, hey, I got this listing.
I need to verify the flood zone. Oh, great.
I won't have it back to you in the morning. I'll try to put an offer in.
But what if we can solve that problem? Fairly easy with some technology, which is exactly what we did. As we went to FEMA, we were able to order flood zone determinations.
It goes directly back to them. They do it instantly.
Next morning, it lets us know. It's hard to send an email out to, full risk, poor.
All we're doing is following up with them. We didn't have to do anything.
Literally, all they did was put an address and an email address in and they got everything they needed. That's pretty cool.
Like you call it, it's working as our 24-hour sales rep. Yeah.
Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, these are the kind of things that I think,

I really believe that we're still in the first inning or if we're even in the first inning, maybe we're in the top of the first inning when it comes to realigning value with an insurance sale, right? There's the obvious, I shouldn't say obvious, there is the well understood traditional value proposition, which is particularly relevant in middle market sales. A lot of the stuff that say Caruthers or Mick Hunt or Charles Speck, or these guys talk about, which is, you know, tends to be geared towards comp or something like that.
And a lot of it has to do with, you know, just kind of risk management techniques. Okay.
And managing people and injuries and okay. But there are a ton of additional layers of value that can be offered with education, with resources, with real-time return of information, with self-service, automation.
There's all these different both

types of value and layers of value that are possible that we just simply are not even

tapping into that in other industries are the bar, like literally the bar, barrier for entry.

And in ours, we're just starting to tap into them like what you just described, which is

Thank you. in other industries are the bar like literally the bar barrier for entry and in ours we're we're just starting to tap into them like what you just described which is getting a report based on email and address and that's the other thing too is that everybody thinks about insurance first like you know i carly's teacher so i was like like you know that's what he taught me love insurance shouldn't be the first conversation yeah so that's the problem i said because when their insurance rate goes up that's the first thing they're thinking is they're mad at you yeah because you you led with the insurance and I was like well you know insurance is really all that we do well maybe that's part of the problem is we're not overall risk advisors yeah you know what is that the term risk advisor insurance advisor um is is a tough one for me because It's a tough one for everybody.
Yeah. I think that, I think you're right.
And I would love to think of myself as an advisor for sure. But then there's a lot of times where I'm just placing policies, right? Someone calls and they need a comp policy.
And I go, eh, this is easy, you know, blast it out, get it back to them. Here's what it is.
Off we go. I didn't really advise them.
I kind of just like took an order and placed it. And when, and my point to that is when I think about, I think a lot about, um, the cost of our people's time.
That is, that is something that I spend a lot of time thinking about. And it's one of the reasons that I went to HubSpot initially.
One of the primary reasons is I wanted to be able to track activity. I wanted to be able to track time, not in like a dystopian Joe Biden way where I want to control your every move, but in more of like, um, in order to, to create areas of value or create area, you know, how do I automate something that they're doing a lot of, or where are we wasting it? Okay.
So when you look from a, from a profit standpoint at being an order taker, when an order is put in and you process that order and you sell that order and it works that way, that easy, right? That is the most profitable way to do business. It's why all the insured techs, all the VCs go after these quick DC plays because when someone knows exactly what they want, is ready to buy, and all you have to do is execute that order.
It is incredibly profitable. So your brain goes, wow, that is easy.
I should do more of that. Except one, those are relatively rare in our space.
And two, those people don't stick around. So I feel like while we all want to be advisors, there's like this false incentive to be order takers because it is actually an easier way to do things.
And we get lost in that. Does that make sense what I'm saying? It does.
And so that's why we use video the way we do. They're like, well, how do you do all that? I said, you can still advise.
I said, look, when someone picks the phone up to call us, it's usually just to give us their credit card information because they've watched 10 of our blogs. They've listened to 10 of our videos through the whole journey, but it's the same thing on streamlining it though.
Use the video that educated and advised through that funnel and still streamlining it. But most people haven't figured out how to do that yet or aren't willing to invest the time to do it.
So look, yeah, it's going to take a lot of your time, but I mean, literally. Dude.
Yeah. I mean, it's's the same as when a lead comes in my my license people don't even touch it it goes straight to the va the va does it then when the va has it ready then a licensed person reviews it yeah we um you know it's it's funny we're definitely two peas of a pod when it comes to the video stuff one of the things things that, so I, you know, the video content marketing stuff, obviously like they ask you answer is a set should, you know, should be, you should have on your, on your, on your dresser or whatever, your end table next to your bed.
You should have like the Bible and they ask you answer and life will be, life will be better. The Torah or whatever.
I do call it the Bible marketing. Yeah.
Whatever you, uh,

I always bust Marcus's chops because, uh, and I know people who've listened for a long time know that he's a good buddy

of mine and I know Chris, he's become a good buddy of yours, but, um, uh,

so when, when he first came up with that concept, they ask you answer.

Um,

he was interviewed by the New York times and he actually has this article that he shows sometimes. And it's a picture and it says answering revolutionary marketing concepts, answering client questions.
And it was like a completely dead serious headline. And it's just like, so funny that, that the concept of just simply answering client questions in video is like this revolutionary idea that our industry refuses, which I'm glad.
I hope none of you listening ever do what Chris and I do. Please.
It's tons of work. Never do it.
Don't do it. You're going to be terrible at it.
You're all going to be awful. Don't do it because then the two of us can reap more benefits.
I will tell you this. I'm going to see Marcus in two weeks.
I'm on a retreat with him and Donald Miller in Cleveland. Oh, wow.
Yeah. That's going to be fun.
Yeah. Jeez.
That'll be super fun. And I think I'm supposed to be on a retreat with him and David Meerman in October in Massachusetts.
Wow. Where in Massachusetts? I got to look and see.
It's a mastermind group he recently started, a smaller one. It's only like 30 to 40 people.
Yeah. We do twice a year.
That's cool. That, you know, so going to the next level of video, one of the things that I just did was I had a buddy of mine refer me over one of his clients that he was struggling with the D&O And I like, I kind of like the, I'm not as good as Gordon Coyle at this stuff who will be on the podcast.
I think when we're recording it, he'll be on soon. By the time you hear this one, he'll have already been on.
So go back and listen to this episode. But like, I liked especially liability stuff too, like DNO and stuff in cyber.
And I get into that. But he, you know, he referred it over.
And what I did was I packaged the account up and, you know, put the applications that I knew needed together. And then when I submitted it, instead of doing a cover letter or just sending in the apps, which if you're just sending in apps, I think that's the most bushly thing to do today.
Like there's just no way to stand out with how busy underwriters are. You at least need a cover letter.
So instead of doing a cover letter, what I did was a video cover letter and I used, so when we do a submission in HubSpot, I add the underwriters as contacts. So in the deal card, I have the client, right? Obviously as one of the contacts, their company, and then I'll have the underwriters as contacts as well.
So every communication with underwriters from all the companies that I'm submitting to are also captured in the activity feed for that deal card. Okay.
So what I'll do, what I did was because we use Vidyard is, um, I didn't realize you were using Vidyard.

Yeah.

Yup.

Yeah.

I use Vidyard cause I wanted the full,

so we went using the paid version,

the free version paid version.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's I mean,

it was,

it was definitely a heavy expense,

but the analytics that we get back,

the forms you can put in the videos,

like it's just the ROI you can track and host bot back to it. I've us video.
I tell somebody, I got a $10,000 revenue video about us. It's a silly video that I put up in November that made $10,000 in 60 days because I put a form in it.
Yeah, dude, it's crazy. And the other part too is like when we went, we moved and I'm huge supporter of Chris Langell and advisory involved and always will be.
But when we made the move to HubSpot, I wanted to go fully in. So we moved our website CMS to HubSpot's CMS so that we could track everything.
I wanted to know every visitor, what page, what form time. I wanted the full thing.
And to get the full thing, including video, you need to go vidyard. So now I have, I literally anybody who fills out a form on our site, I know everything they've done, every video they watched, how much of it they watched, what buttons they clicked, what pages they went to.
I know everything. Okay.
Now HubSpot's got the whole video thing, but I tell people, I'm still a bigger fan of vidyard because first of number of videos, but I just don't think HubSpot's advanced in the video and the forms in it i'll take analytics all day long now are you doing the website yourself that's been my biggest struggle yeah yeah i do the website myself it's hard to find somebody when you get it in the hubspot who can do it the way you wanted to do especially when they ask you answer or something like that other than using you know of course marcus and them it's kind of challenging i'm doing the exact same you're doing. I like that stuff.
I get into the CMS stuff. I like building out the pages in the form, the page builders and all that.
I, I, I get into it, but, but, so my point is I did this, I did this submission with a vid yard video submission, a cover letter. Well, here's the interesting part and all my underwriters listening, your ears should perk up.
I could see, so I sent it, you know, individual emails. I didn't just blast it out to all of them, but I sent it to three different places that I thought would be interested in this account.
And I get the, the, the, um, the first place, uh, guy opens it. He then forwards it to his assistant underwriter who watches the full video.
They immediately respond with, this just got moved to the top of our pile. We'll have a quote back to you by the end of the week.
Boom. Why? So two people in the company watched the video.
The video was like three minutes long and in it, I'm doing what you would do. Hey, look, like, I know this is a first time DNO policy, but you know, this is a, you know, blah, blah, blah.
I break down the account. Like, here's why I think this is going to be a really good risk for us and why I think you guys should think about placing.
Okay. Second company watches 15 seconds of it, never responds.
Still haven't heard back from them. Third company I sent it to never watches the video, never opens email because I can track that too.
So it's like, now I'm like, hmm, who do you think is going to get my next submission? The company that four days later still has not opened the email or watched the video? The company that opened the email, watched 15 seconds of the video and still hasn't responded? Or the company that watched the full video twice with two separate people and immediately responded. I now know who my real partners are as underwriters because again, carriers are only your partners if they're actually your partners, right? If they act like partners.
So what I'm doing is now I have analytics, not just on my customers, but actually on my underwriters and their engagement with us. And, you know, that to me is powerful.
So I actually use that with a carrier and I actually put my carriers in automation. So when we send them an app and they don't respond, it's following up them automatically every 24 hours.
It drives them nuts. My office manager thinks it's hilarious because she's like, you're driving by nuts and i said look we don't have to do it but we know that they're opening it and they're not responding yeah but the other thing is i do something called risk storytelling there's a broker somewhere out in texas that really hates me right now because we just took a 500 000 account from them because i did a risk storytelling video send it to the underwriterwriter, full risk.
I go through the flood risk score.

I'm pulling up all the different types of flooding,

how this property was built on another property

that had flooded eight times.

And they're like, well, somebody else already submitted it,

but we're actually backing them out

and we're putting you in as the broker

because they didn't give us any of that information.

They didn't tell us how it was elevated.

They didn't tell us the water resistant materials

that were being used.

So we just took you to the list

and we're giving you the count.

Yeah, dude, I think- You're helping them understand the risk yes yeah and and this is the thing is and i've said this this is why i've said this on the podcast before so we're not doing this anymore but for a very long time i took every appointment that i could get because i think that carriers bend the truth i was i was speaking with my, Dave Iadonza, from Dryden Mutual the other day. And I used to say carriers lie.
He said, don't say lie. Lies are a bad word, you know, a mean word.
We don't lie, but we bend the truth just like agents. And I said, that's true.
Okay. So that being said, I think that carriers over-oversell what they're willing to write and what their pricing is going to be and geographic spread and all that.
And agents overestimate and bend the truth on how much premium they're going to put with them. Okay, that's the game.
Well, what I'm working towards, and again, I'm training my team and it's not all there yet, but like to what you said, by doing a better job of presenting an account to an underwriter, I feel like we're being a better partner to them. So we're doing our part.
And in exchange, by using HubSpot and Vidyard, I'm actually able to see who's a better partner on their side. Because I can't stand the marketing rep who's like, send us more business, send us more business.
Yet they don't realize that they're freaking underwriters, bottom file, all our submissions. And we don't hear from for three or four days.
And when we do hear from them, it's a one sentence response. And it's like, this isn't a partnership.
Like this is bullshit. And now I know like these guys want our business.
When we send them an email, we send them a video, a video cover letter. I like risk storytelling.
I may steal that. Like, like when, when, when they get that, they open it, they watch it, they appreciate it.
That's a partner. And none of that, but now they can say, you know what, broker a, we're blind to there's risk broker B we've got the full picture.
Yeah. That's a broker.
We feel has been to a better job of protecting of protecting us. That's a partnership we want.
Like I tell people, I say, look, at the end of the day, it's our job to make sure we reduce the claims for the customer because we don't want to go through that experience, but we're also reducing it for the carrier. It's a win-win.
Yeah. And tools like, you know, this is one of those moments where tools like HubSpot, like a Vidyard give you a true competitive advantage.
I think there's a lot of tools that are, you know, they're nice and they definitely help, but they're not really like a competitive advantage. I feel like when I submit business on an account that deserves this, I mean, a $700 bop, you're just, you know, you quote it, you write it, whatever.
We still will probably do a video proposal to the client, but you know, you don't necessarily talk to an underwriter. I'm talking about some of a little me or something that needs some explanation or whatever.
This allows you, like you said, to do a screen grab of a report or here's, here's what I'm thinking or here, let's walk through their financials. And yeah, there's a little schmuggy here, but this is why I think we're, this is still a good account or, and you actually get to have that interaction with them and they can see the look on your face.
They can hear your tone of voice. They can hear you're excited about putting this account on the books and whatever that to me makes all the difference.
And I do agree with you. It's us doing our job.
It forces us to do our job better because it's, you can just send a bullshit submission into somebody when it's just an app

as an attachment.

When you actually have to do a video and pitch it and sell it,

you need to believe in what you're selling.

None of that.

Like for example,

I've got $150 million risk right now in Hawaii that gave me a notice three

days before renewal.

And I was like,

there's no way.

Yeah.

I sent a video.

I got a response back this morning.

If I would have sent an app,

it would have taken three days.

Yes.

But from that video,

they can see right away what the risk is yeah because let's be honest

underwriter reading through the app it takes time yeah they don't want to do it they're human I will

tell you this on video though we do have a rule too if someone sends me an email and asks me more

than two questions we actually respond with a vidyard video it's out of conversations yeah

first uh introduction first person that emails us we never met him before usually something that's

going back to them it's just a simple introduction email for me real quick with Vidyard. Yeah, I like that.
I am. I'm definitely going to start responding more, doing more.
You know, we started doing this underwriter submission cover letter thing, which has been a big success. certainly a success for the underwriters that opened it.
I just, I can't stress enough how mind blowing it is to me. Cause I know the carriers that will give us tons of shit about our submissions.
And I'm like, wait a minute. I can tell you it's been a week and he hasn't even opened that email yet.
Like, don't come at me, man. Like, he hasn't opened the email.

The fact that the carriers are willing to almost double your commissions

because they see what you're doing with the risks.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're going to increase your commission

because you're doing a better job of protecting the risk.

Yeah.

You're not sending us garbage.

Yeah.

Dude, this is the kind of stuff.

That's where I laugh.

Look, Hussbaum's one of our best employees. It's the most expensive thing.
Let'll tell you, with playbooks now, I don't know if you've gotten into that. We basically built that carry appetites inside playbooks.
Yeah. So we've been with us two weeks or two years.
You go in, you type the question. You've got the answer for who to go to with it.
Yeah. We're implementing, actually, right now I'm working on one of our head of sales.
He put together this, it's called Needs, N-E-A-D-S. And it's basically a pre-qualification sequence of questions.
And I built, or I'm in the process, hopefully it'll be done by, I would love to say today, but it probably won't be until next week. Basically, this is going to be the questionnaire for when a lead comes in, our new business coordinators who are, who is, who's unlicensed person, they call out and say, ask them these five questions and use a playbook and type the answers right into the playbook as they're taking the responses.
And then they're trained based on the responses they get to these questions through the playbook, whether they move that person to, from a lead to a suspect, or they say, or they refer them out to commercial insurance.net who we refer like lines of business that we don't have. We don't have a good markets for today, or we just, or we just kill the, kill the deal.
And that simple process keeps our licensed producers from dealing with accounts that don't really have a shot at closing. Right.
So the whole, the whole point is, is filtering and things like playbooks, things, you know, things like, you know, dynamic, dynamic forms that, you know. So dynamic pages is just something I've gotten into this week with our developer, but also it's so powerful.
Yeah. Because of the unique customer experience on every different customer.
Yeah. I mean, the idea that you can change the content based on where they're coming from or what pages they've been to or whatever, or like, like some of the really cool shit with that you can do with, with merge fields in dynamic thank you pages where literally your, the thank you page is being customized, that it feels like the page was literally built for that person.
So now you're using their name and their, and different pieces of their information in how you thank them or how you push them to the next step.

It's because everyone's worried about open rates, you know, with Apple and Google's change.

I said, that's why we've generally always stuck to click the links like Vidyard.

They click the link. It takes that away.
I can still use it based on them clicking that link with a PandaDoc.

For example, we built our video proposal with Vidyard and PandaDoc.

So when I send it through PandaDoc, they open it. It goes it goes from well it basically goes from quote ready to quote sent automatically when the panda doc goes out customer reviews it it goes to quote being reviewed i don't have to touch it yeah do you use a lot do you do um one of the things that that i've been working a lot on and is uh like customer life cycles and using them as a way to better understand our funnel and where things are in our funnel.
So we, one of the automations, again, I'm way behind just so everyone's clear where Chris is with HubSpot Buildout and where I am in two different places. So I don't want there to be like, you know, there's no, there's no real comparison.
I'm, I'm still very early stage, but, but this is my fourth year too. Yeah.
And we're, this is our fourth month. So, you know, that, that would be the difference.
Um, but one of the things I think is really interesting. So we, we use a fairly standardized customer life cycle, which is subscriber, someone, um, who we know of that doesn't know of us, lead, shown interest, suspect, meets qualification standards, or what would technically be called marketing qualified in normal parlance.

Prospect is interested in quote, and then client, evangelist, lost.

That's customer lifecycle. So you could be a client without being an evangelist, et cetera.
So what's cool is that you can, in the pipeline, in different engagements, different pages they hit, you can change where the lifecycle is automatically. So like if someone leaves us feedback

or uses our referral page

and types in a referral to us or whatever,

we can move them from client to evangelist.

We can move them automatically.

So I don't need to rely on my people

to have to think about,

oh, are they a suspect?

Are they a prospect? Not that they're incapable of it, but it's just, I don't want them to have to think about that. But as a business owner, I can now look at our customer lifecycle report and know exactly where in the funnel our contacts are, where we may be having obstacles, where there may be issues, you know, our attrition rate and all that kind of stuff.
And that it's like those simple insights are where you're able to make true improvements in your business. And, you know, you just don't get that a lot of places.
So I was able to use it to change our fee schedule. So we could see exactly which deals we're losing and why and what the premium point was.
Like, hey, it was a big issue. $500 losing because of fees and i said you know that's not that big of a deal but at least gives us the data to know yeah it's the small stuff we're losing which is okay but that's that's why we're losing it well that's like a little bit of it we made a little bit of an adjustment there and we stopped losing almost all of it yeah that's awesome so that is like putting the learning center on there.
Um, it was, it has been a big thing for us too, but like my office manager says now, Hey, if it didn't happen to HubSpot, it didn't happen. What's up guys.
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All right, I'm out of here. Peace.
Let's get back to the episode. That is our, so our, we're working towards that.
We're not there yet. You know, we're moving off of agency zoom slowly over to HubSpot.
That's not necessarily a necessarily a knock on agency zoom. We just are a different level.
Yeah. The integration I wanted, you know, especially with, you know, doing the deal with SIA and all that kind of stuff and where we're going and where we're headed, like agency zoom was a great tool for us as a seven, eight person agency operating fairly traditionally.
Great tool. I think today, based on the way things are going, I would probably look at better agency over agency Zoom personally, but agency Zoom is not a bad tool.
But man, if you want to take your game to another level, there's just no comparison between the two.

And the things that you can see do and the insights you can have, if you are the type of, and this is one of the things that I've always appreciated about the way you look at the business is, regardless of what system you have, you have some sort of insight into what's happening in your agency. And one of the major beefs that I have with the traditional mentality of our industry is that principals have these thoughts that are really just subjective kind of feelings they get in their brain, and they use those to make decisions.
And I'm like, you're not actually basing that on anything that's actually legitimately like data-driven happening in your business. You're just saying it feels like this happens.
So this is what I'm going to do. And when you start to see what's possible from touch points, phone calls, like I'm like, you're supposed to make 20 calls a day, let's say.
You can tell me you made 20 calls, but those 20 calls aren't in HubSpot. You made zero calls, zero.
Didn't happen in HubSpot, didn't happen. And it can track the full life cycle of every touch point.
And that is when, when you get to that level, and it takes work and commitment and you gotta keep on your people and and, you know, and culturally develop, you know, that, but man, once you start to get some of that insights and we're just getting the very early pieces of it, geez, the things you can do are just unbelievable. Yeah.
But for example, for me, like I could see why we weren't closing more business because my licensed person was spending time on things that weren't licensed. And I can see that from the conversations at HubSpot.
Yeah. And an easy way for me to control that was not assigned in those conversations, assigned to the VA or say, Hey, you know what? We need to hire someone else to help you here.
Cause I see that you're spending 30% of your day on this. Now, something else we've been using for a while too, is something called Mapsly.
So Mapsly actually maps where every one of our referral partners is across the country, our customers. I matched it up with a flood warning system that we use.
So it also tells us where to create content where flooding is also happening. And so I can look at the map and say, Hey, this month, 40% of our business is Arizona, 30% is in California.
So it tells us where to kind of spend our time. It's awesome.
I just think, dude, that type of real-time marketing insights of dynamically creating adjusting maneuvering content whatever to address the market i mean one that's a level that most people are not interested in like just frankly they're just not interested in going that deep um which is fine uh you don't you don't need to but for those that are um the the the wizard-esque games that you can play are just i mean i feel i honestly feel like a kid in a candy store like with when i when i HubSpot, like every meeting that I have in the day that doesn't allow me to like build out new systems, processes or different features in HubSpot, I feel like is wasted time because just figuring out this thing that I mentioned to you with the underwriters, right? This submission, video submission process and getting the feedback of here's the underwriters that open the emails and watch the videos. And here's the underwriters that don't.
Just that insight alone allows me to go, guys, don't waste your time submitting your business to XYZ carrier or MGA. Send it right to these guys.
They appreciate it. They're going to get it back to us.
We're going to write the business faster. That saved, if that saves five hours a month, total time, right? For the team, if that just that simple insight, and now I can stack those insights up on top of each other, three hours here, an hour here, five hours here, 10 hours here, all that time goes back into selling and helping clients, all of it.

And it's like, when we think in terms of just.

None of that, think about employee morale.

Yeah. Oh yeah.
A hundred percent. Yeah.
A hundred percent. I think about, you know, people hate doing mortgage changes.

They hate doing a lot of the service, especially salespeople.

But now what if you can see, Hey, here's how I can take it out of your hands.

Yeah.

Or you're doing it and you shouldn't be. That's one of the things that I like about it is it tells it helps me gauge what each one of our team members is doing.
Yeah. And, and ultimately it lets you know, where do you need more help? Where, where do you need another person? Where do you need a VA? Hey, we can actually, we can actually, you know, go get a VA who crushes COIs or is great at handling email inbound service requests and responding to them and triaging them.
And, you know, and, you know, other things like, you know, right now, we have a position, new business coordinator. That's the person who does the pre-qualification of leads to suspects.
And she is training to get licensed. Well, you know, I'm able to, I am now able to give her and watch and listen, one, listen to phone calls through RingCentral.
I'm able to call log every call she makes. So I'm getting a feel before she ever becomes a licensed producer for Rogue Risk.
I'm able to see how does she do on the phone? Is she willing to pick up the phone? How does she do with answering questions? How is she a documentation? So I'm literally getting she's building her resume for us as a select producer before she ever becomes a select producer. And I can see it all right there.
Now she's doing an awesome job. I can't wait for her to become a producer.
I think she's going to crush, but like, but, but maybe she's, maybe she wasn't good. Right.
And I would get to see that and either train her or say, maybe this isn't the right thing for you or whatever. That's why like conversation AI, you can detect customer behavior based on tone.
So it helps us teach our team how to use the right tone to the conversation to control the conversation. Yeah.
You know, it's, it's, it just, this level of insight, I think a lot of people will go, ah, you know, I'd rather just go golfing with the person. And, and I think that's wonderful.
I think, I think what's happening in our space is that there's a, there's developing a clear delineation between those individuals whose thought process is singular individual household income, right? Which through nonprofit events and golf games and asking for referrals, can you build a book of business that provides you with personal income that that's sufficient.

Abso-freaking-lutely. You don't have to do any of this shit.
None of it. You can use a spreadsheet and have two carriers and make more than enough money to take care of your family and everything's fine.
It's going to take time and a lot of work, but you can get there and that's fine. If you're looking to scale your business, to like grow your business beyond you, beyond the

kind of egocentric kingdom version of your business, you cannot do it today, in my opinion,

without starting to dip your toe into the shit that we're talking about right now. You just can't.
It doesn't mean you can't be successful. You can.
It doesn't mean you can't make money. You can.
But if you're looking for if scale, if legacy, if you're ambitious and you want it to be bigger than just you, you have to start to think about this stuff. You just can't compete if you're not.
That's the same thing we're doing with payments right now. We're getting ready to finally finish the integration with ePay.
We're going to go straight through deals and HubSpot. We don't have to do anything.
Instead of having to go to ePay, fill out the prefab payment page, send it. No, none of that.
Yeah. Same thing with Accord forms with the developer.
We're getting ready to finish out pre-filling Accord forms. How are you getting to that to that just you're using you got an accord templates and you've built it yourself or i built it myself years ago i just didn't like the way it looked yeah now with api data it can be up to date and really accurate it can change instantly if we needed to yeah the accord form thing is such a shame it's it's such a shame that in court accord like can't get out of their own way.
You know, what a bureaucratic nightmare Accord is. It just, you know, the, what they have at their fingertips and how much value they've actually extracted is, it's sad because I know some, you know, Accord would say, oh, look how much money we make and look how big we are.
And it's like, yes, except you've probably done 5% of what you would have been capable of if you had ever actually pushed. So that said, that being said, we use WonderWrite to produce a lot of our accords today.
And they just opened up Zapier Beta, which is cool. We're gonna help test that a little bit.
I'm hoping that that works. I do like Peter and what they're doing at Wonder Right.
But yeah, it's hard. You know, I I'm very hopeful for them.
So I don't want this to be negative in any way. But, you know, with third party, the hard part is you have to assume inevitably they're going to continue to expand services and, you know, want to become an AMS or want to become something else.
And it's just like, it's like, we just need one company that offers a cord form integration and creation and mapping easily at a price the industry could afford. and they would absolutely frigging dominate.

But I feel like everybody goes, no, we need to build an ecosystem.

We need to build this, and we need to build that.

And it's like, if I have to duplicate entry, it's not going to work.

If it doesn't work, everyone's like, oh, you need to offer this type of insurance and this type of insurance.

Look, it can be nice.

Oh, maybe we should offer that.

Maybe we should go there.

And you get distracted so easy, then what happens? You forget why you got in business to do what you do in the first place yeah yeah chasing chasing shiny objects is difficult you know i know i you know i i'm if there was like a chasing shiny objects anonymous 12-step program i probably would have or should have been in it a long time ago. Cause I'm definitely guilty of that.
Um, but you know, I think that there's two sides to that coin, you know, there's part of me always says like, Oh, Ryan, just stay focused on what you're doing and keep pushing and blah, which, but you know, in general is what we do, or I guess I hire people to do that because I struggle with it. But the other side of it is, though, naturally things are going to develop off what you're doing.
Like when we originally started with just flood insurance, you know, we have a flood CE company now. We have a flood mitigation company, a flood consulting company, but it still goes back to our educational vision of, it's all still circled around that.
Yeah. I mean, it's not going outside of that.
But these things, you know, like people,

oh, you know, you start a side business or whatever.

It just naturally happens when you get into certain fields

and you're dealing with it.

You know, the thing too, yeah,

and I think that's a great point.

I think the other thing with chasing some shiny objects

or always kind of researching

or looking into new technology is that

if you don't spend some time in that space, right. Then you do become stale, like over time, I'm not saying immediately, but you do start to like, if you're not there, there is absolutely something to keeping some small portion of your brain, looking out into the future at what's coming and what's going on.
It doesn't mean you always take action, but like, uh, I'm going to, uh, in two weeks I'll be at InsurTech Boston. Um, which I don't know when this is going to come out, but, uh, uh, may or may not, this may not come out that week or may come out the week after.
So that may already happen, but, um, I can't wait to go't wait to go there. It's a great event.
They do a great job. I'm glad it's back after COVID.
But you get a chance to just bump into people that have crazy ideas, kind of like you do. And it gives your brain a little taste of like, here's what's possible.
It doesn't mean you need to do it, nor do you need to do it today. But like, this is possible.
Or like, you know, you talking about some of the some of the

shit that you do. I may look at that and go, I'd love to be able to do that.
I can't do it today.

But man, that's on my list. And I'd like a year from now to be able to do that thing that he's

doing. And if you don't let your brain go to that space, I feel like you're doing your business.

You could also bring it back and say, you know what, I can tweak it just a little bit to improve

what I'm currently doing.

Yeah.

And that's usually what my goal is of,

hey,

Thank you. go to that space, I feel like you're doing your business.
You could also bring it back and say, you know what? I can tweak it just a little bit to improve what I'm currently doing. Yeah.
And that's usually what my goal is of, Hey, no, I don't want to go do what they're doing, but maybe something they say triggers in my brain to help me improve our process. Cause like I tell people, look as fancy as these systems are at the end of the day, it's all about process.
Yeah. Yep.
One of the things that I want to do, um, that I'm going to build out eventually is I want to track every company that we quote on an account. I want to track who we quoted, what their response was, quote or decline, and then what the actual quote number was.
because I want there to become a day when I can pull a report that says, say Amtrust, Hanover, Chubb, Liberty, and Hartford, right? Let's take those five companies. So we quoted those five companies 20 times.
Hartford came back with a quote 90% of the chubb was 82 of the time you know down to liberty

that only came back 52 of the time it's not a lack on liberty i'm just as an example right and then

what that and here's the quoting who was the best price who declined you know whatever and be able

to take those analytics and come back and go okay in the future when this type of account comes in

don't even quote the other four just quote chubb because they're they're quoting this type of risk

Thank you. go, okay, in the future, when this type of account comes in, don't even quote the other four, just quote Chubb, because they're quoting this type of risk 97% of the time, and another 90% of those times, they are the best price.
So I'd rather just go right to them, write the business, then quote the other four as well and have to deal with a decline or the rate not being as good or whatever. And then you can obviously tweak it too with like, they have the right coverage package and that kind of stuff, obviously.
So, but, but being able to get that, being able to get that insight back allows you to shave so much time because I know you're dealing with a singular line of business. I know you have multiple markets, but like for us, one of our biggest headaches and biggest time lost is where does the business go? Where does it go? That is an enormous time waste.
I'm wasting 80% of my time sending it to 20% of the carriers. You know what I mean? Like, Hey, how do we do a better job of understanding the appetite? We're instantly, we know right off the bat when we put something in, even training the system, you know, machine technology to tell us, hey, go to company A, company B, based on what you're putting in.
Yeah, I mean, to the underwriter not opening the email and watching the video, that underwriter is going to get less submissions from us from now on. And in the next quarterly review with their marketing rep, when they call and go, hey, submissions are down, I'm going to go, look, I sent you guys 25 emails and this son of a bitch only opened 16 of them.
What happened to the other nine? What is it? You're good to open those? Like, you're not doing us any favors. Don't you know what I mean? Like, like that kind of stuff to me, not to screw the carriers.
I, you know, that's not the point. I wish the person would open the emails.
That's, that's the point is from, from a people time efficiency standpoint, and to your point, a quality of work standpoint, my people are not ever are feeling less and less like they're just spinning their wheels, which is just a soul killer. I mean, let's be honest too.
You deal with the market rep. They've always had the power of, Hey, you didn't do this.
You didn't do that. Now something like a house, but no, wait, we did it.
Here it is. Yeah.
Hey, we didn't know we did an opportunity to defend what we did. Yes.
Yep. That, that to me, there is just like, you know, that's how people HubSpot is better than I think any AMS out there.
I will put, I, I walked through, so I walked through for my team how I did this submission the other day. This here, added this contact, added the underwriter, made a note, attached these quote forms.
It automatically pulls in all the emails. It tracked the call that I made to the person.
Here's the video, blah, blah, blah. I showed them all that.
And I was like, what's not in the system? What activity did I do that someone could go back and say, Hey, you know, bub, bub, bub here, here. What did I not do? What did I miss? And they were like, you got everything.
And that it was easy. It's different, right? The HubSpot is different.
If you're trained on a traditional AMS, it's definitely a different mental with the objects and stuff. But like, man, once you start to pick it up, it is insane.

It's just all there right at your fingertips and that's what's up at the end of the day that's what it wins is ease of use because even when i interview a candidate hubspot is part of our interview process um and yeah it usually blows them away about how easy the system is to use but i said it's not that it's necessarily easy to use it's that I'm only showing you 1% and it's the 1% you're going to use every day. Yeah.
Yeah. Dude, it's awesome.
So, so, you know, we're, wow, we just blew through 52 minutes and that was crazy. Um, so, you know, kind of using the last 10 minutes or so of our conversation here, talk to me a little bit about what's you got the most excited about your business.
It doesn't have to be technology. It could be whatever.
Like, what do you, when you show up in the morning, like what right now are you the most excited about? When I show, it still goes back to this massive risk that comes on my desk and everybody says they can do anything with. And I'm able to instantly pull the data we have, go in, put a full report together, send it to a carrier and get a risk model and a rating model that no one else can get.
Yeah. Because of our educational background.
It's that people at the end of the day, it still comes back to that for me. Yeah.
That's the part I enjoy. Yeah.
So, so you love the challenge of the tough account that you get to, you really dig your teeth into and do the problem solving. I get that.
I, I like, you know, as much as I don't really love selling insurance, I love the, I love the risk management. You know, I love walking through, I'm with you.
I love the educational side of walking a client through the coverages, why they're important, how they can mitigate them. Like that, that problem solving piece is, it is a lot of fun.
There's, there's, there's a lot to that. Then I also like how my team will email me and say, Hey, here's what happened this morning that we need videos on.
Yeah. And then you go crank them out.
Like this afternoon, I'll crank out about eight more. I usually do eight to 10 videos on Tuesdays and thursdays yeah i uh i so you guys know this is a friday so he's off his schedule just just to be clear on that but i i will um i am also this afternoon gonna be doing my i did a bunch of stuff this morning i got a few more calls and then this afternoon before i get my kids off the bus i I will go crank out.
I got about six. I have six.
So I think in headlines, you know, in terms of what I want to attack. So I have six headlines.
I may, depending on time, I may just add two more and bang out a quick eight. But, but dude, you know, I know you're right there.
We did. We just got monetization status.
You know, I'm not going to actually put ads on,

on our videos for rogue risk,

but the monetization status gives you some extra tracking and whatever.

But yeah,

thousand plus subscribers and we did 4,000 total hours of view time in the

last 12 months.

Last month we did last 28 days.

We did almost 11,000 views,

which dude for insurance YouTube channel. It's that's why like, I watch the shit you do.
I've done it twice now. Once with the Murray group with rogue, you know, a few other agents Crowley's doing some good stuff.
Like I just don't see how other agents can see the things that we're doing and not be like, this is a thing we're going to do. Like we're going to do this.
Like of all the things we should be doing, this is like, look at the success these guys are having. Like the leads just keep, it never ends.
It's just, we generate two to 300 leads a month from between referral partners and content. Like we're not out there spending money on ads, everything's strictly organic.
Yeah. And we have an 80 to 90 close ratio yeah it's dude it is insane the possibilities yeah it's just insane and it boggles my mind but not that the content like i had a meeting with a large carrier yesterday that's leaving a private flood market and they came to us and we were going to put a blog out with some other carriers.
We're kind of putting misinformation out there and I said, you know, we like your content. It's neutral and it's always fact-based.
Will you put this piece of information out for us? So I shot a video on it and I got a blog I released last night on. They said, we know that you won't spin it negatively, but you also won't spin it positively.
You're going to be completely neutral about it. And that's what we like about your content.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's good. That's good, man.
I know, um, in general, I'd say carrier reviews do really well for us from a content perspective. Um, I got a call from four CEOs.
Mine did a best of on private residential and commercial. Yeah.
It's what's, what's funny is that a lot of agents are like, um, well, you know, my carrier is going to get mad at me. I'm like mad at you.
Like, I mean, maybe if you're saying a bunch of untrue things about them or you're purposefully like trashing them, but like, if you're giving an honest review, like I did an honest review of, um, maybe Hanover or somebody where, you know, like I, I just, I said like, Hey, like they are a little old school in some of the things they do, but the paper's amazing. The claims handling is amazing.
You know? So, so it was, it felt to me, it felt very real. And it was going to sue you for saying something good about them.
Yeah. What do you, why would they be pissed? I'm doing the video to write more business with their carrier like i want people to watch the video and go hey you know hey i saw your video on hanover they seem like a great company let's do it you know i like to do business like that's why you're doing it so to me it's just there's just it's like what read they ask that you answer do exactly what i see no i can't discuss pricing on my website look customers don't want to know how much your insurance is going to cost.
They want to know what's determining the price of insurance. That's all they want to know.
Dude, that Marcus has made an entire career just in our space with that point is, yes, you cannot say a bop for a bakery is going to be $1,300. No, you can't say that because you don't know.
But what you can say is here's the four main factors that based, you know, based on these four factors, your rate is going to go up or down and here's what they are. And that's what people want to know.
And I promise you, that'll be the number one page that people visit on your website. Yes.
Yeah. It's dude, it's wild.
It's unfortunately he's trained me really badly. I got to send him an email on this.
I made my wife and mother's their present. And she's like, you know, no, you're not any of the pictures.
I said, you got to blame that market share. There's that whole thing.
He trained me, you know, it's not, you know, it's not about us. It's about the customers, you know, so he sticks it in my head on everything I do now.
Yeah. I know a lot of, I've had a lot of people.
You know, a lot of people have questioned the fact that all our videos on Rogue Risk YouTube channel have me in them. And I'm on the cover image.
And it's like, look, as soon as I get someone who is willing to be who can speak to insurance in a way that I believe is authentic and real and, and, and, and get, you know, in a caring way, like I I'd like to believe that the way I deliver it is I actually want people to learn. Like, as soon as I get someone who can do that and do it consistently, I will have them do it.
Like, I don't want to be the face. It's the reason it's not the Hanley agency.
Like I didn't name it Hanley insurance services. I named it rogue risk because I don't want it to be about me.
But I think to a certain extent, the human factor, there's something to it. There's something to it that like you run your agency and people get to hear your viewpoints.
You're the, you're the cultural leader and driver of the business. And if you're out there every day teaching and educating, then it becomes very clear that that is a core principle of your business.
Dude, I love answering the phones every now and then it completely throws people off. Wait, this is the person from the video.
They're just like shocked. Yeah.
I will say this. There's three books I require people to read before they come on board.
Now they ask answer the visual cell by marcus and uh uh tyler and then ann hanley everybody writes yeah ann hanley's great and i said because you know you're gonna write a blog you're gonna do a video you're gonna share it with a customer and they're gonna build this instant trust because it's actually done by you not someone else on your team um i had ann hanley on the podcast she She is, gosh, I was what, two or three years ago now. It's probably about two years ago now.
She's awesome. Yeah, I've had so much going on.
I haven't been able to do too much outreach to people outside of the industry. I used to love like bringing people outside the industry and every once in a while, but yeah, she's, She's awesome awesome and just as quality a person off camera as on camera just think very highly of her very very good person so but i've sent out probably 20 copies of the visual selling everybody i had one candidate reached that back up to me didn't end up coming to work for us she's like i closed a ten thousand dollar account today because that I'm with you.
Hey, man, I want to be respectful of your time. We just blew through an hour long conversation.
We'll have to have you back on the show again. This is great.
People want to see what you're up to. They just want to connect with you.
Where are the best places to do that? LinkedIn, Chris Green. Find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, our website, floodinsuranceguru.com.
I have a lot of people right now that are reaching out to us about the Learning Center. Not necessarily learning about flood in the Learning Center, but they're like, hey, how do I build a Learning Center like that? Visit my website, floodinsuranceguru.com, forward slash Learning Center.
Reach out to me. Mark has shared and actually built it for me, but it's been very beneficial for us.
I'd be happy to sit down with anybody and just kind of show them how we built it, the process, all that stuff to really help you out. Yeah, dude, I appreciate you, the work you do, the way you think about your business.
You're definitely someone who's leading the charge on a lot of this stuff. And I'm glad that you were willing to stick with me and finally get this interview get this interview done because I always love our conversations and I'm always just trying to keep up with you from a, from a content and marketing standpoint.

So I will tell you this though, what you did to me,

I've actually been doing the Jamie peers. I owe him an interview.

Well, dude, thank you so much. We do nothing but the best.

Thanks man. See you.
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