RHS 122 - Brandon Smith on How to Train Unstoppable Producers

Hello everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have an absolutely tremendous episode for you.
A conversation with Brandon Smith, the Executive Vice President at Glidewell. He's a speaker.
You've probably seen him out on the circuit, and he has a producer development course that I wanted to talk to him about. I want to talk to him about producers in general and what it means to bring producers along.
How do we help the producers in our industry be more successful? I don't love the word producer, but personally, I don't have a better option and everyone seems to understand what it means. So I don't like to overcomplicate things.
That all being said, production is an enormous part of our business, enormous part. And everyone seems to struggle with finding producers, finding the right producers, finding producers that are going to buy into their strategy, stick with them, grow their business.
And I think that producers, I think it's hard, right? Production is very hard. And we don't always train our producers the way that they want to be trained or need to be trained.
And it's just hard because we're also running agencies and all this kind of stuff. So I wanted to bring Brandon on, talk about how do you train producers, what he's doing, what his producer training program is all about, and how he's seen producers become successful.
What is the path to a successful producer? What does that look like? I think you're going to love this conversation. Before we get there, I want a big shout out, huge shout out to one of our sponsors of this show coterie insurance guys coterie insurance is changing the game for small commercial they're making it easy accessible fast um they're taking the burden off all the transactional nonsense that destroys our business so that you can focus on helping your clients it's they're they're reinventing I shouldn't say reinventing.
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All right, let's get on to Brandon Smith. Yo, what's up, man? Hey, dude.
How are you? I'm good. How about those bills? How about them bills? dude between the the poor, I don't know, poor officiating or lots of penalties.

I don't know how you.

It's too much on both sides, in my opinion.

It was terrible.

It was nonstop.

There was no flow to the game.

It just kept being interrupted.

Yeah.

But, I mean, I think I'm savvy enough with sports that seeing Josh Allen complete what, 55 percent of his passes and still 315 yards, no touchdowns. I mean, his ceiling is so high.
Yeah. He you know, I think I think that what I thought happened last night and what I was as a Bills fan having lived through, you know, I really became a Bills fan the year before the four Super Bowls.
Right. I was really became old enough to understand the game and what was going on and the gravity of it.
So I was I turned when I was nine. That's really when I kind of was like, oh, I'm a Bills fan.
My family's a Bills fan. Okay.
Now I know what this means. Then the next year was the giant Superbowl that was wide, right? So like, obviously I was a little heartbroken, but I certainly didn't understand the gravity.
And then you're, they're so good, the four years. And then you come off of like being right there, missing four years.
And then what was it? 20 plus years of just being terrible. I mean, just not even just bad, like really, really bad.
And to see the team now and to see Alan make Chris Collinsworth literally in real time, change his opinion because he was just fellating the chiefs,

the whole, I mean, from start to finish, it was chiefs, chiefs, chiefs,

chiefs, maybe this bills team can get lucky.

And then in real time have to change his opinion.

That was a special evening. In my opinion, I wish it had happened earlier.

It's tough with that delay. The delay was really difficult for,

for East coasters, but you know,

I was still pretty special.

That's true. Yeah.
That was late for you.

Yeah. Yeah.
But whatever.

I mean, I think they're probably the hottest team,

best team in the league right now.

And if they're not in the AFC championship,

they did something wrong.

Without injuries, they're in the AFC championship game.

Without injuries.

Thank you. championship they did something wrong without injuries they're in the AFC championship game without injuries in you know the thing with our league and 17 games our league Jesus the thing with this league I really only root for the bills I didn't I didn't love I love baseball I played baseball baseball was my was this was like my baseball and football is what I played growing up, played college baseball, played baseball after college, but I don't really have a favorite team.
I've never really, I love Jeter. I like the Yanks, but like, I was never like a diehard Yankees fan.
The Mets are terrible. So I don't really have like a favorite baseball team.
I don't really have a favorite college sports team. I hate the NBA.
I, so like the only team that I follow,

like team team that I follow is the bills so it's kind of like i don't have anybody else it's not like oh it's baseball season now i'm gonna watch this team it's just the bills yeah how far are you from the stadium it takes me about four hours four and a half hours to get there. Yeah.
Are you going to any games? Do you have tickets for anything this season? Well, right now there is a vaccine mandate to get in the building. And I'm a one shotter and I'm probably not getting my second shot because.
Yeah, exactly. Probably not.
I didn't want to get the first shot. So I've had COVID diagnosed.
So I have the antibodies and, but I still didn't want people and me getting the shot and I have no problem sharing this with the audience, but like me getting the shot was a hundred percent peer pressure. Like I just didn't want people to feel uncomfortable around me because, you know, I know in truth, if they haven't had COVID, I'm better protected.

I have the antibodies.

You know what I mean?

I've actually had it twice.

So I felt very comfortable personally, but I didn't want other people to feel uncomfortable around.

So I was like, okay, I'll go get the shot.

And plus you do speaking and stuff. So I was like, okay, I'll go get the shot.
And, and plus you do speaking and stuff. So I was like, okay, I'll go get the shot.
No problem. I'll be vaccinated.
They don't have Johnson and Johnson around here anymore. So I had to go get Pfizer dude.
I haven't the way the Pfizer shop made me feel. I was like, this can't be healthy for you.
Like my, my lymph node under my arm was so swollen. It looked like I had a wing, not an arm for like a week.
I couldn't put my arm down. I was sick.
I felt terrible. I had all kinds of pain in my arm and my side.
And like, I'm sure that now I'm protected better, but I just, I was like, Nope, I'm good. I I've had COVID twice twice and i got the shot i'm good bro like i'm good i feel like i'm doing my civic duty and you know there i am so right with you i mean in our age and health and lifestyle statistically like you have to use logic at some point unfortunately the answer that answer to that is no, you don't have to use logic.
You can just say whatever you want. And as long as you finish it with follow the science, you're right.
And it doesn't matter what side you're on. It's just a follow science, bro.
It's just ridiculous. It's crazy.
So Saturday, so Saturday went to university of Montana football game,

go into our seats and the people next to us, as we go in our seats,

they turn and go, are you guys vaccinated?

I was like, do you use Viagra? Yeah. Like, yeah.
Are you on,

are you on lithium? Right. Are you taking a blood thinner? Have you ever had, do you currently have gonorrhea? All these really personal questions that are no one's business.
And, you know, I guess my thing in general in life, and it's probably obvious if anyone follows me on Twitter or is listening to the show for any amount of time, they know what my general politics are. I, my wife refers, says that, always said that always said you know she's she refers to herself as a conservative and i always tell her i'm not really a conservative i'm not because because you know a lot of the social stuff like you know i i just don't have any i don't i don't mix my religion and my what i think is right right like i think that's a big part of the problem.
Yeah, that's my issue with conservatism is that they're doing the same things to liberal people that liberal people are trying to do to conservatives. They're like, well, I feel God told me that this is immoral, so I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be able to do it or whatever.
And I'm like, no, that's not really the works. Like, you know, if you honestly believe that, and we live in a free country, which we do, you know, you get to have your life, I get to have mine.
And we can believe morally, those things are different. But as long as we're not hurting each other, we should all be able to live together.
And that's kind of, I started calling myself, this is probably isn't right, like a libertist. Cause I don't like libertarian part.
Cause they get a little too wacky, like chaos theory and anarchy. I'm not down with all that shit.
But, um, so I started calling myself a libertist. Like you live your life, I'll live mine.
As long as we're not hurting each other, we're good. And, um, I don't know how that works, but that's kind of where I come down on all this.
I like it. And I found myself to be more funny, more in the middle, not libertarian, but not independent, because I think that's just excuse for.
I agree. It feels good.
I think I think when I hear someone say I'm an independent, again, I don't be judgy but my when i hear people say that what i really feel like they're saying is i want to be able to what i want to be able to live without taking a side so that if i'm with a bunch of liberals i can be like i'm independent so you know i'm cool i'm not one of them and then if you're with your conservative friends you're like i'm independent i'm cool i'm not one of them and yeah then if you're with your conservative friends, you'd be like, I'm independent. I'm cool.
I'm not one of them. And yeah, I just, I'm like, well, you have beliefs.
I don't know. I don't know.
And I, I do understand, dude. And this is the thing that I think is, and we don't, we can get off of politics because probably everyone who's listening either hates us or loves us right now.
And based on my politics, I think just about everybody hates me. But I, I think that I completely understand Joe Rogan talks about this all the time that like, you know, I kind of understand where you are.
I may not understand all your viewpoints, but just from following you on socials and stuff, I probably have a decent feel of where you're at. And there is there is a group of people and I think there's a very large group and I would put myself in this group and maybe, maybe you too.
I don't, I don't really relate to either either party at all. Like I just, maybe a little bit, probably more, probably a little more on the Republican side than the Democratic side.
But like there's just, I feel like there's this gap of belief in the middle that so many of my friends actually would fall into so many people I know and like and trust would fall into. And it just doesn't fit.
And it's a very odd place. Yeah.
I, I wonder if it's our demographic, our generation, because that seems to be where the majority is. You know, there's, we're between the two different sides, but to just logic you have to use logic you have to use your brain at some point and look through things and see um like to me the biggest and then we can get away from politics the biggest law that i hate i despise is ticketing someone and fining them for not wearing their seatbelt.
Like I wear my seatbelt. I'm all for it.
I believe it saves lives. You should wear your seatbelt.
But when government comes in, like what happened to, you know, and I'm not saying I hate the law. I hate the principle of you're removing the free choice from people.
And now you're making money and taxing them on that behavior. And so that's what I hate.
I think you would be okay with that. Here's how I know you'd be okay with that.
If that money, a hundred percent went back into 100% dollar for dollar, went back into like a community program or something or into a community. The problem is the problem in general is that we can't, you can't trust where the money is going.
And you don't see any of the benefit of where the money of these things is going. So taxes go up, nothing in your life gets better.
So and I'm all for, you know, I could get into, if I were to run for all, I mean, trust me, I thought about it, Cause I think I, and if I had another, if I didn't have a business that I was running, I would run like a, I have a lot of viewpoints on these particular topics. Cause I think we're so far from, from where this country was supposed to go.
Like I completely get the argument of we were the founding fathers were imperfect. I, I a hundred that argument i think they had a really good they took the best shot that they could take at the time understanding where they were right and and all of them were imperfect and i 100 agree with that because people go yeah this person had slaves well yeah no no shit they were imperfect people and i don't think that the way they lived life is necessarily right.
I think they're taking the best shot they could with the what I think what they were hoping for is we would ultimately evolve to that better place. And what, and I feel like we've lost is that while we are still very imperfect, we have made incredible strides in a faster amount of time than any other collection of humans ever in history to go from where we were in 1776 to where we are today and maybe not today maybe like maybe like the beginning of the Obama years or like the first term Obama years like you take 7076 to there and man we came a long long in a, in a relatively short amount of time in human history.
And I feel like we've just completely lost track of that. Instead of continuing to iterate to better places, it's like, let's just blow everything up.
And you know, I get, I, I, I, and I, this takes us, this is going to eventually take us into the conversation around producers and all the stuff that you're doing that I, that I really want to talk about. I'm very, very interested in.
Um, but I, I, one of the things that I really struggle with in our current, in our current, uh, the current rhetoric, the current conversation discourse is probably the right word, is this idea of holding up, um, beta traits as the most desirable traits to have. And what I mean by that is not everyone is an alpha in every category.
Okay. Not that it's never been, some people will not be an alpha in any category.
And that's, uh, some of that will be by choice. Some of it will be by, um, unfortunate circumstances.
And, and I think as much as we can, we need to support those people and make sure that they're productive, happy and live lives that allow them to be whatever they can be. But I'm very concerned.
And this is like, you know, that horrible cliche of like, everyone gets a trophy. Well, like that, I watch this now, like seeing my kids and seeing some of the environments that they're in.
And, um, it really makes me concerned that we are like, we, we don't, we aren't putting our veterans on a pedestal that we aren't looking at the most successful people and emulating them. We're trying to tear them down.
Like I don't give a shit how many dollars Jeff Bezos pays in taxes. And anyone that takes a stance on Jeff Bezos needs to pay more in taxes.
Like, look, I don't like that our politicians have been corrupted to promote big business over small business. And that's a big part of rogue risk, right? It's supporting small business.
But holy shit, bro. Like the things that this dude has innovated in our world and Elon Musk have innovated in our world.
And if they don't have the runway that they have, who makes those changes? Who evolves and innovates? The government's not going to do it. The lives they've impacted.
The amount of wealth bezos has created for other people for other people it's phenomenal i don't know i don't know if you saw it yet i actually had this thought this morning i tweeted something on the lines of why have we as a society come to the place where we celebrate victimhood rather than celebrating people for their

accomplishments and what they do like yeah there's been a flip in what we yeah celebrate where we give trophies awards and i just it baffles me yeah look how look how and granted i am all for and and this and i'm not putting lip service to this i am all for we need to create more opportunities for people who are born into true, I don't want to say victimhood, but yeah, situations that are out of their control, right? There are tens, hundreds of thousands of kids that are born into situations that are just absolutely terrible. And we get out of those situations to be able to lead productive, happy, successful, as healthy as possible lives.
But to your point, I think those two things get convoluted. We're not talking about there are actual people who are victims and those people need help.
But what we're doing is saying we have a contest to be who can be the most victimized. I'm the most victimized.
So you all should, should give some of your heart, hard-earned stuff to me because I'm the most victimized. And it's like, no, no, no, that's, that's not, we don't, we shouldn't celebrate that.
We should solve it. Those are two different things.
Celebrating and solving are two very different things. Solve the fact that you've been victimized.
If you actually have been, we need to solve that problem for sure. But we, why are we, it just, to me, it defeats the point.
It defeats what, what the country was based on. And like, you know, and I have one of my buddies go, well, Jesus, don't you believe in't you believe in racism shit yeah i do i freaking know people who are and they're assholes and i get that but like what are we gonna do we're gonna you're by not helping people be the best version of themselves right the people who are victimized we're letting the asshole racist win that's that's the way i look at it is is we're letting them win because that's all they really want dude i'm i'm right there with you i love hearing it um i don't know i don't know that's it i didn't expect to go there i know i did not but that's all right well hey if we haven't lost everyone at 18 minutes i want to talk about dude so so you're doing so you're doing some amazing stuff.
We'll, we'll, we'll put that whole part of the conversation on pause and we can talk about that some other time. But, um, um, you know, I just, I just think, I just want people to, we need to create more situations where people can be successful.
And I think our industry has an amazing opportunity. That's kind of where my brain was when I went down this path and then we got a little askew.
But I think the concept of the producer, and I don't really love that word in general, mostly because it's just an odd word. But that being said, it's not really my point.
I think production, sales, and insurance is an opportunity to help to really give people whatever kind of life they want. And it was the starting point for me to pull myself out poor as shit growing up.
You know what I mean? The kids used to call my house the crack house. We used to say the criminals didn't steal in our town.
They lived in our town, right? Like, that was where I came from. So insurance changed all of that for me.
So, and, and I see the work you're doing with producers and the information you're putting out and how you're teaching people to be successful. And, and that's really where I wanted to take this whole conversation.
Well, that's awesome, man. I, I appreciate that.
Um, there's so many different places we could jump in. And the truth truth is everything you just said, the opportunity for people to grow and become successful, do something with themselves.
And I honestly, I don't love insurance. Insurance isn't my passion.
That isn't what gets me up and gets me going. It's the opportunities, the people, the conversations, the social science and studying human nature and the development of our industry.
And my passion is motivating, encouraging and challenging people to be the best version of themselves. And insurance just happens to be the industry we're in.
I'm right with you. The word producer is awkward and comfortable, but agent is almost worse.

I wish we could come up with something that was a little more user-friendly and conversation and rewarding.

What do you think about just sales? I'm in sales. I'm a salesperson.

Sales, consulting. I mean, that's kind of vague and there's another stereotype there, but, uh, sales, uh, you know, then you can get all technical, you know, risk manager or risk advisor.
And I just, we're in the industry of helping people, whether that's with their insurance needs or growing their business or having the best life possible. Um, and so that, that's the approach I took with producers a couple of years ago was I just

wasn't seeing

anything in my, at the time, 18 years in the industry, hadn't seen a program that was

focused on developing new producers.

We as agency owners, we'd hire producers, hire staff.

They'd pass the test, they're licensed and we'd say, all right, go network. And they don't know what that means.
They don't know, like, how do you do that? And so everything I saw, and perhaps I missed something, I'm humble enough to say, hey, I missed it. This program was there.
But everything I saw in training for producers was either a $20,000 Grant Cardone, very vague, big hype, go sell with no practical application for our industry. It was taught by 185 year old dude in a sterile conference room in a suit and tie that he bought during the great depression.
And he's got some great ideas and strategies, but the world has changed. No denying that.
Or third, it comes from a carrier with a slant to sell more of their product. They always went on the back end.
And so it's like, gosh, there's got to be a way to help some of these young producers who are getting licensed. And like 90% of agents get licensed and leave the industry in 24 months.
Why is that? know the opportunity we know the earning capacity why are so many struggling and so i thought gosh that's what i love doing is helping and motivating encouraging and challenging people so i'm going to help these producers so that's i love it i think i think that especially with everything that's going on with uh employment now, I think there's a major opportunity in our space to find people who – now, the difficult part is pulling people out of our industry, into our industry, because you have to be able to float those first six months at a minimum of them getting licensed, getting acclimated, terminology, workflows, all that kind of stuff. You know, that's tough for a lot of especially younger agencies that are looking to grow.
I actually did a video on LinkedIn today about this, what I think is a core bug or a bug in our core operating system of the industry, which is once an agency principal hits their personal number, whatever that income number is, it could be 150,000. It could be 500,000 in personal income.
Once they hit it, they do nothing after that. They just stop all, all innovation, all growth, uh, ends.
They don't upgrade systems. They don't do anything.
They just sit on it because they've hit their lifestyle button. And I think that's an amazing part of our industry that that's possible.
The issue is it doesn't help young, aspiring, you know, ambitious producers, you know, men and women who are looking to kind of take their career and help them grow. So, you know, a couple of things I'm very interested selfishly in, in, in how you, how you recommend bringing in and training people outside the industry.
That's one. And then two, how you take someone who's been in the industry for maybe one to three years, who hasn't gotten the training that you had, that you, that you have and how they can, what's the best way to get them to the next level? So those are the two issues that I see.
I see, how do you get people in? And then once they're, you know, once they're in, and then once they're in and they've been here for a year or two and they feel kind of a little disenfranchised, a little stagnated, that's when they usually leave. Well, how do we push them to the next level so that they feel very supported and can really grow? Yeah.
You know, oftentimes I've found that what's going on in my business professional life mirrors and has a lot of parallels to what's going on internally in my own personal life and development. And it would make sense that the two are tied together.
So over this last couple of years of just the craziness of what we've seen as a country and as a world, one of my objectives was to just simplify my life. And in that, I started seeing in business, you know, you and I both have been, I mean, we've traveled the country, we've been at different conferences and events, and there's all these like, big ideas, these big strategies, we throw out terms like data and uh innovation and like all insure tech and it's all big and if you're not doing this then you're you're missing out you're not yeah gonna get a piece of the pie and i realized like if we want to simplify our lives sometimes it's okay to just think inside the box you always hear every speaker like it's time to think outside the box but what if we just to simplify our lives, sometimes it's okay to just think inside the box.
You always hear every speaker, like it's time to think outside the box, but what if we just got back to just thinking inside the box? Like there's some very simple tools, ideas, strategies that work in sales, in insurance that have worked for hundreds of years. And so just refining those skills, I have found to be huge.
So a lot of agency owners, let me, gosh, I don't wanna say a lot. There are agency owners who present themselves as being more successful than they actually are.
The truth is when you look at numbers, there's a lot of struggling agents out there, a lot of struggling agencies. And so it takes a little bit of humility to say, gosh, I don't have all the answers.
Can you help me? And a lot of those agencies, the principle is producing. They're generating the revenue.
So for me to hire a new producer and bring them on and train them and develop them and teach them systems and strategies, I have to stop producing for a timetable to get them up to speed. That really hurts revenue, hurts cash flow for a small mom and pop agency.
I just lived through this. I literally just lived through this.
What the majority of agencies are. You know, that's like 80% of agencies are less than five employees.
So it's painful, not just to find talent, but to train them. You have to stop production.
So one of my goals was, hey, bring in a program that comes alongside the agency owner that says, hey, you go through this course, go learn this, watch these videos, learn this while I'm producing. And then when you're done, let's touch base and talk and figure out how we can bring that into our DNA, into our culture and our agency.
So it becomes a win-win. So that's kind of how I would answer your first question.
It's like how to train. Simple, like just getting back to the basics, learning to ask the right questions, how to overcome objections, things that came natural to those of us that are running agencies.
But we forget that sometimes we have to go back and think inside the box and train not insurance coverage, how to get a lead in front of you, but just how to understand coverage and communicate that to a prospect. yeah early I think early in my career, one of the,

so, you know, I, I, I give my father-in-law a hard time all the time. Cause you know, he's, he's super old school and, you know, can still barely use a computer, but he's still one of like the best insurance salesmen I've ever come across ever.
And in a pure act of humility, I still clean my wife's office.

So every Saturday or Sunday, I take an hour. Now granted, I'm listening to a podcast.
This is kind of with kids. This is kind of become me time.
So I almost like, I do. I'm like, Oh, I got to go.
But really in my head, I'm like, shit, I get an hour and a half of like, you messed up her office. You make her office dirty all week.
So it takes longer. Yeah.
So I, so I'll head over to her office and go in and I vacuum and take the garbage out and stuff. And, uh, but I'll, sometimes when I'm over there, he'll be sitting down with somebody selling them insurance.
And I listened to what he said and his story, this is the crazy part. And this is why I wrote down, think inside the box.
I kind of, I kind of, I kind of love that. Um, because he is telling the same exact stories that I learned listening to him 16 years ago, when I first started the Murray group, he's telling the same stories today.
And, um, and the other day he says to me, I see him and that people leave, you know, I'm clean or whatever. And the people leave.
And I said, did you sell them? And he goes, they're sold when they pick up the phone. And, you know, and like, and in his mind, I mean, and he's not wrong.
Like he just, he doesn't do anything flashy, right? It's just, it's just question, story, question, story, question, story, all the way down that list. And at the end, they end they're just like yep there's no other option but to buy insurance from him because he has asked them a set of questions and followed that up with anecdotal stories that reinforce why this coverage is important or this is important and like that doesn't have anything to do with the crm that's not important doesn't have anything to do with proposal software again not that that's not important, And like, that doesn't have anything to do with the CRM.
That's not important. Doesn't have anything to do with proposal software.
Again, not that that's not important, but like those simple concepts are what sell insurance. And, you know, Hanley, you just answered question number two.
How do you find people? You build relationships. You tell stories about your lifestyle, the impact you're making on your community, the difference you're making in the lives of friends, family, neighborhood, and people want to be a part of that and want to do what you're doing.
And now you're finding new talent to come onto your team. You've got to build relationships in selling, which your father-in-law is one of the best of the best at doing.
And you've got to build relationships and finding new talent. It's essentially selling yourself.
It's the same game, if you will, but it all comes back to making the focus people and not products. People and not procedures.
People and not policies. It's people-minded first.
Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm not going to say that I'm the best leader in any regard. But I will say, being that from the back to the go back to the trusted choice days, that's 2014.
You know, I was a fully remote employee then. And we had a distributed team, most of which was either in Wisconsin or Minnesota, Minneapolis, but still distributed in general, probably like a third, a third, a third.
So like a third, you know, so, um, and what that taught, what we were able to learn there, what I was able to learn there is, um, you know, when you, when you're not, it's easy. I think, I think what happens sometimes is when, when someone is in the same office with you sharing the same physical space, there's a ton of benefits to it.
So I don't knock office space at all. We don't have an office today officially, but I understand why people do.
And there are many times when I wish that we had one, but half my team is all spread out all over. But when you're not sharing physical space, you it's you can't take for granted that someone understands what you're saying.
Right. Because when you're in the same space, you can just like you can kind of take for granted because you're in the same space that they understand the mission or they understand what's going on or they understand why you're doing something.
And when someone lives in Florida or in Chicago or in Montana and they're working for your company, you have to be very communicative. And I feel like a lot of the producers, and I'm interested in your feedbacks, I'm sure you get a ton of calls too.
I get a lot of calls from producers. Just a pure lack of kind of transparency and communication seems like a major divide between our producers, our producing core in our industry, and leadership.
There seems to be a gap there. How do you start to solve that and break down that problem? What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show.
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All right, I'm out of here. Peace.
Let's get back to the episode. Well, I think we've seen a huge shift that started even pre-COVID, pre-politics, where culture used to be, and I think back to this, right, like culture used to be what happened inside the four walls of your office.
You developed culture. People saw that people engage in it.
There was, it was physical, it was tangible. And over the last couple of years, culture has been redefined as it's a common vision.
And with your team, you've got to communicate the vision, the purpose of what we do. Everything you do points back to the mission, the purpose.
We can get into what's more important, the passion, purpose, mission, vision, whatever. But point being is culture is common vision, common purpose, common mission.

And so when your team believes that they are a part of something bigger than themselves,

they have buy-in in that culture, that vision, that gap between producer and leadership closes because you've become equals. Some are rising up and then some are humbling themselves and coming down.
But the purpose is to accomplish the job. And that, my opinion is that's what closes that gap is being a part of something bigger than yourself.
How do you do that? Like just maybe tactically, how do you get, how do you start to get your team to buy in? All right, let's, let's take an example. So I'm a, I'm one of the, those, those, maybe I'm a, I'm a late fifties agency owner.
And I'm saying, look, I got, I really like what I do. We kind of been doing the same thing for a while.
I got 10 years left. And, and I believe that while we've done a good job getting to where we are, maybe we can't do it the same way moving forward.
So now we got to make us a kind of a course correction. And this is where I think there's a lot of agencies right now that are having this discussion internally where they're going, man, we've done a lot of things right for sure.
But geez, the next 10 years look like they're going to be a lot different than the previous 20. So how do you start to get your team? So now's a point where you need to really start to build that common vision, common mission.
These things can become really important. How do you start to get your, particularly your producer base on board with like, hey, we're going to be risk manage better risk managers to our middle market, or we're going to really dial in on small commercial and here's going to be the process or, or, Hey, we're going to get rid of small commercial altogether.
And we're just going to become a high volume person-length shop. Like how do we start to communicate this down to our producers and get them on board? Cause that seems these kind of changes are difficult, but I see a lot of agencies taking them on right now.
There is. I'm working with an agency in the Midwest, in Indiana right now, who they've got roughly 10 people on their team.
Nine of the 10 are over the age of 55. That one was just hired in the last three months at 23 years old.
There's a whole lot of this going on right now in the office, not because of principles and insurance, because of mindset, way of doing business, way of communicating with clients. These nine over here have never used SMS or text message in communicating with clients.
This new employee, it's very natural and normal. They didn't even ask, how do I communicate? They just pick up their phone and started texting clients.
This producer at 23 is outperforming the producer in three, in the last three months, this producer has been doing it for years. And so the challenge, I mean, I think this is something new.
I don't know that I have the answer, Ryan,

to how do we right now? I think we have to go back to thinking inside the box, getting back

to the basics. It takes a long time to turn a ship.
It's small. It's baby steps.
It's not just

saying, hey, tomorrow we are going to be better risk managers for middle market. It really comes

back to communicating the vision with the team,

the purpose of we are here for this reason,

everything we're going to do points back to this.

So when we communicate with our team, Hey,

the reason we're going to start putting more of a focus on being a better

risk manager for middle markets is because it helps us fulfill what we believe

we're called to do here at ABC insurance. Yeah.
Communication is so key. Like I've never heard anybody say, will you stop communicating? Like, I get it.
I get it. Stop.
I got the point. We got to err on the side of over communicating with our team.
And the more they hear it from us and it's not just a one, two, three, four time thing. When we're speaking it every day, everything comes back to the purpose and the mission.
At some point, it's going to click and they're going to see, whoa, this is our purpose. This is what we're about.
Here's where our focus is on what we're doing. And then when they start seeing consistent results, that's what changes behavior.
Now, there's a hundred different ways to do that when we're bringing in CRMs and automation and proposals and websites, like, but the purpose is to do what you're called to do, whatever your mission is, whatever your purpose is. And everything has to point back to that in small, small baby steps.
And I think the other side of it is, or it won't click and then they'll self-select out of the process. I think that's the scarier side.
I, you know, when, and why is that bad? Well, that's not bad. No, it's, I will say it's one of those things like it is definitely an easier said than done kind of thing, especially, you know, like say a 10 person agency that has been together for a long time.
And all of a sudden, John decides, man, I'm never going to text message. Right? I'm never going to do it.
It's not, I'm just, it's not my thing. I got fat thumbs.
I don't like it. You know, whatever.
I don't think that way. I'm terrible at communicating that way.
You know, all these things, you know, and there is, so to me, that is the hardest part because yes, as an outsider, looking at the situation, you're going, that's a good thing. What John is telling you is that while he may enjoy working here, he's not a good fit anymore.
But John also is someone who's been loyal to you for 10 years and he's produced a lot. And that becomes a very difficult situation but that's what's great about our industry if that's how that agency in central indiana wants to operate more power to them like i think for a long time i fell prey to it ryan you go to these conferences you go to the vendor hall and it's just like bright and shiny and new and you chase and you look like oh i need to plug this in and this and i'm going to grab this technology And then we get back to the office and we get stuck in the routine and we plateau because we're not using anything to its full capability.
And then we get frustrated because why doesn't Glidewell look like Rogue? I'm doing everything Ryan's doing because I'm not Ryan. Like we have to embrace our scars, our mistakes, the quirkiness of our community, the quirkiness of our communication style.
And I think just being confident and owning who you are. And if you're going to be an insurance agent and you're not going to text, you're going to get coffee.
You're going to go to the barbershop and talk high school sports on Friday mornings. Do it, but do it to your full capability.
You're still going to be successful. And that's what makes our industry so great is the freedom to operate our businesses the way we want.
The only one responsible for our results is us. That I agree with.
You know, I've thought a lot about this because, you know, we, the way that I want to do certain parts of our business is not the way that I think we can do all parts of our business. And in big part, thanks to two buddies of mine, Matt and Emily and Chris Paradiso, who pound me over the head with EOS, Entrepreneur's Operating System.
I don't know if you're familiar with that from the book Traction. It kind of a, it's kind of like an, it's an operating system for your business.
I don't, you know, that's essentially what it is, is like, and it's pretty straightforward. You know, there's there's, you can get is make it more complex if you want it to be, but you know, we run a pretty straightforward version of EOS.
Say it again. What's it called? EOS, uh, entrepreneurs operating system.
It's based off of the book or the book is based off of the system. Traction is the name of the book.
Gino Wickman is the guy that wrote it. And it's a really cool, straightforward way of kind of figuring out what your priorities are in your business and attacking them and knowing who's working on what at all times in a very straightforward way, in a way that doesn't take over your business, right? It's not like you don't need a piece of software.
There is software you can buy. We don't use it.
We just use a spreadsheet. So it can be very, very straightforward.
And my point in saying that is one of the core concepts of EOS, and this is going to come back to the producer's piece, is you can have, so when it comes to people in positions, you can have right butt, right seat. So right person sitting in the right chair.
You can have wrong chair, right butt. So you can have just great person.
You want this person on your team, but they're just not in the right position. Or you can have wrong butt, wrong seat.
So just not the right person in a position that you don't really need. So those are the three scenarios.
And I think about that a lot because, you know, we only have three people, but we're looking to hire fairly rapidly over the next six to 12 months. And, you know, I think about if you're hiring for character and you're hiring for someone who's going to buy into what you're doing and believes in what you're doing and is going to be loyal, you have to, I think, I shouldn't say you have to, it is my feeling that we as leaders need to have the humility to say,

there's a good chance I'm going to bring this person in

and they're going to be right but wrong seat the first time in, right?

They may come in as a personal lines producer and they just, they stink.

But man, you throw them on middle market commercial

and now they're a gangster killer because that just fits there or vice versa, right? You think they're going to be some big time commercial producer for you. And then you realize that, geez, they're awesome on the phone with people, but that type of prospecting doesn't work.
They're better with inbound, you know, taking phone calls and closing deals because, and it's that, it's, if you have the right person, and I think this particularly goes for producers, right? Because it's like, this is how we sell here, right? And we, you know, we all pound, this is how we sell, you know, we, we do this, we do that. Well, if you find the right person, why don't you figure out a process and a path for that person to sell at their maximum capacity? Like, you know, I always think about Bruce Lee cause I, I, I love Bruce Lee.
Um, and I read a lot about him and stuff. And I just keep coming back to this idea that everyone's probably heard about, but, but his whole concept of be water, right.
Water doesn't care what the shape of the cup is. It takes the shape of the cup, be like water.
And I'm paraphrasing a little and well, maybe more than a little, but that's the basic concept. And I think when we think about producers and I'm interested just from your expertise and dealing with people, how, how many people you think are doing this.
And if you think it's viable, but if you get someone in who believes in you, who's going to care about your clients, if they hate texting, then find a way to make them successful without texting. You know what I mean? Or if they hate using a CRM, they just absolutely hate it, but they can still produce and are going to do, and they're going to collect the information you need.
And obviously there are some guide rails, but then find a way for them to be successful. And that's the mission of the agency principle or leadership to me.
Not, you can go the other way. Hey, this is the way we do it.
And you either fit this box or you don't. You can go that way too.
But I tend to be more of like, if you're going to believe in us and be loyal to us and work hard for us and take care of our clients the way we want them to be taken care of, then let us massage our process to make you successful because, geez, every human is different. I agree 100%.
And as you're saying that, I'm thinking through, we've got three or four people on our team that are in their third or fourth different role in our office for those reasons. They're amazing people, their character, their passion, their belief in what we do.
And just over time, it's just funny, Hey, this didn't work. But as I'm going through that, I realized I'm one of those, Ryan.
Yeah. I, where I started the industry was not, I got my start in servicing commercial.
It was hell. It sucked.
It was painful. And when I switched to producing in personal lines, it was just like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
And I was still part of the same vision, still part of the same team, but it was right butt, wrong seat. and I agree completely when you have those people now there are those areas where hey

this is how we do business if you can't operate in that we need to have a hard conversation yeah

but that's the exception. That's very last, last option.
Last result is having a hard conversation because you, you find people that care a trained monkey can sell insurance, but finding somebody of character that believes in the passion that believes in your community and your purpose you hold onto those. Yeah.
But finding somebody of character that believes in the passion, that believes in your community and your purpose, you hold onto those. Yeah.
I agree with you, man. I think that, I think that, I think that, that principles as quickly as possible have to determine whether they're going to be producing principles or they're going to run their business.
And, you know, I don't want to say that I'm any kind of agency ownership rockstar, right? I've been doing this for less than two years and we're not profitable yet. So, you know, don't, don't, you know, I don't want to put Rogue up on a pedestal.
That being said, you know, I've probably had conversations with 20,000 agency principals. And, you know, I come back to, you have to choose.
And when people seem to get hung up, it's because they don't, they can't decide whether they need to step out and train the next generation of producers, you know, and I don't mean generation by age. I mean, the next group that is going to come up and really drive the business and grow, or they're going to sit down in that stable and run with everybody.
And those are two different things. And then you have to put someone who's going to make the decisions because when you're trying to, you know, Ron Swanson said it perfectly, right.
You can't half-ass two things. You can only whole ass one thing.
And that to me is, is, is a major, it's, it's a reason why I think so many of these development programs, like, like the one that you've built that even if they do purchase it, it never gets engaged in, right? Like it never gets, there are a lot of programs out there to help you. And, you know, I think they all have a range of quality, but geez, if you just engage them, you would get some kind of benefit.
I see on the back end of the course, I see working with people that go through the course, less than 15% finish, go 100% of the way through. And the ones that have their agencies, not necessarily because of what we've done, but they're the agencies that are winning.
They're thriving because everything they do is intentional. There's purpose behind every decision they make.
So what is, so tell everyone about your program. Like what, what's the name of it? Where do they get information? Let's look, I want to learn a little bit about your specific program and how they get involved if they're interested in all that kind of stuff.
Yeah. Long story short, we talked about it a little bit at the beginning.
You know, over the course of my career, didn't see a program that was fun, engaging, practical application where you could just hit pause and implement right now.

And through COVID, a lot of traveling and speaking got canceled. And so I just started

taking content and recording it and created an online course, producerdp.com, as in producer

development.com. And it really, on the website, you can see everything that's included from

building relationships, overcoming objections, how to put together a proposal. A lot of agency owners hire a producer, never teach them how to put together a proposal, how to deliver the proposal, how to follow up on the proposal, how to network, how to, you know, learning to ask the right questions that not just guarantee whether or not you'll get the sale, but help change the size of the sale.
How do you use your CRM? Whatever platform you want to use. There's a lot of, I'm out there, a lot of great ones out there.
But how to use it, how to get the most out of it. And again, you can see on the website, all the different topics, but created that and created it for the individual.
I wanted

the price point to be affordable for the small mom and pop agency, for the 80% of agencies out there

who can take the risk, take the gamble, if you will, on signing up for another course.

And all throughout there, it is very cost effective, the course, but there's so much

in there that if you just take those tools and implement, you'll pay for the course 10 times. But you got to go through the course, you got to be the one to decide, hey, I'm signing in, I'm going to do today's lesson.
Yeah. So I did that.
But this last year, as you know, I learned a lot through the course, the first year that it was out there and working with agents. And I realized Ryan, at the beginning of 2021, I asked myself, why am I be, why am I in a hurry to become somebody I don't like? You know, I'm wanting to simplify my life, but I'm always in a rush.
I'm always in a hurry. And what I found is those moments in life where I feel like I'm in a hurry when I'm in traffic and it's like, hurry, go.
And like, you know, anybody who drives slower than me is incompetent. And anyone who drives faster than me is just ridiculous.
You know, they're just dumb. When I'm in the grocery store and there's people walking down in front of me and I'm like, I got to get around them.
I got to hurry. I'm in a hurry.
I'm looking at my watch. When I'm grabbing my kids and say, hurry, we got to get in the car, get your shoes on.
What I realized is it was poor communication on my part, poor planning on my part, 30 steps ago. I should have communicated to the kids, hey, we're going to leave in 20 minutes.
Make sure you get your coats and shoes. Get ready.
We're going to be leaving. When I'm running late in traffic, I either overextended my calendar or didn't properly plan for my calendar.
And at the end of the day, I couldn't lay down and be like, how many times did I hurry today? Now there's moments our kid runs out in the street in front of a car and you have to grab them and hurry. But I realized we are in a hurry continually and it's exhausting and it's never for good reasons.
And so I would guess a majority, you know, some of us were born into the industry and have family agencies. But when I ask people, why did you enter the insurance industry? We get one of two answers and you can probably tell me what they are, lifestyle and earning capacity.
We hear that all the time. Yet we are busier than we've ever been and And we're still not satisfied with the results.
Something's not right. Like there's agency owners out there working 40, 50 hours a week in producing, running their agency.
They leave the office, they go see their kids, they have dinner, they see their wife, everyone goes to bed. And then they go back to work to work on their drip marketing campaign, their CRM.
They're really a software company that they're working on from nine to 1am. And we're exhausted.
And so this last year, I was like, we've got to find a way to achieve maximum results, manage our time better because we are always in a hurry. We are always in a rush.
Everybody you talk to, hey, how are you? The answer is almost always good, busy. Like we don't know what being bored is anymore.
We're so busy, digitally distracted. The speed in which we're living, I believe, is the greatest threat to our industry right now.
And so this year, I took what we built with the program and really created a planner for 2022, a book to help people schedule out their week so that they are getting the most out of their time and able to earn the revenue they want to earn so that they can accomplish the two reasons we entered the industry. And so that's kind of part two of the program right now is my focus is on.
I love that. I couldn't, I couldn't agree with you more.
I love that. So, so the planner, can you buy the planner separate from the program or is the planner come with the program? You can't know it is separate producer DP.com forward slash 2022 as the planner.
I'm pumped. These things are shipping.
They'll be in mailboxes, November 15th. They started coming in.
And I I've got about a 15, 20 minute video course online of how to use the planner. I've learned that, you know, I've created what I call the ideal schedule for top performing producer.
And I just took what I've done over the last 20 years, what our producers are doing, the way we were big fans of time blocking, task batching, our quotes, when we're sending out proposals, when we're having our appointments, rather than just being all over chasing. When we check email, very, very, you could say it's almost legalistic, how we operate, how we construct our schedule.

But I've got personal lines producers. I got Steven Resset in our office who he is not working more than 35 hours a week.
He's out of the office by 2 o'clock every Friday. And he is consistently generating $10,000 to $12,000 in new revenue in personal lines just because of how we've structured his week.
Now he's using a VA to help him quote, but every action he takes during the week is proactive revenue generating tasks because he's structured his time to get the results he want and still allows him to have the lifestyle he dreamt of when he entered the industry. Dude, I, this whole topic of hurrying and being busy and you know, one, I think this is amazing.
I love it. And I highly encourage everyone to go to producerdp.com slash 2022.
I know I will be going and getting one of these. I, you know, I saw a post or an ad or something you were running for it.
And I think that's why I reached out. I was like, dude, this thing is awesome.
We need to talk. Um, and, uh, you know, this, I found myself the other day.
So, so I was on, I was on, uh, um, I was, I was interviewing, well, the episode will have come out by the time this one comes out. Uh, I was talking to Will Shaw from, from better agency and, you know, he, Hey man, what's going on.
And, you know, I was like, Oh, you know, you know, I know i busy whatever and then i always i i found myself adding this caveat of saying like you know if i'm not busy you know i'm i get in trouble so i'm glad i'm busy and i'm like that's not true you know what i do when i'm not busy i hang out with my freaking kids and play like wiffle ball and stuff that stuff's awesome you know what i do when i'm busy not doing that your wife can freaking rock a wiffle ball yeah Oh, That stuff's awesome. You know what I do when I'm busy? Not doing that.
Your wife can fricking rock a wiffle ball. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
She's a gangster. But think about it.
We've changed. Think about 20 years ago, Ryan, when we talk about relaxing and life, what it looked like, even advertisement and commercials, it was a couple playing tennis together, sitting on the beach.
And now all those same commercials for, you know, Rolex, Apple, whatever it may be, it's busy conference rooms. It's clubs, nightlife.
Like if you're not busy, you must not be successful. If you're relaxing, you're lazy.
And it's what I have found is that I achieve inner peace when my schedule, when my calendar is aligned with my values. Life balance is not a 50-50 split.
It's about being 100% present. How many times do we as parents with our team have a conversation with our kids while doing this? Yep.
Uh-huh, honey. Or our wife.
Yep. Uh-huh.
Like, no, put the phone down because our busy digitally distracted life is robbing us from the things that we say are most important. Yeah, I agree.
I completely agree. And I think that, you know, what I like about the planner and the planner and the whole concept behind a planner and time blocking too is, is, um, and I, and I'm not the best time blocker.
I'm, it's something I am, I am efforting on, but I will say it's still a weak spot for me, is like, I feel like people have this concept and I would put myself in this box. I'm talking maybe for people like me, is that like by blocking and planning and being consistent, you're not being, it's like, there's no, there's no secret process, you know, like you're like, you're, you're not being creative.
You're not, you know, whatever. It's just like, oh, I'm doing the same things every day.
Well, yeah, you know how Derek Jeter became the best contact hitter in the league? He hit on the tee every frigging day of his life.

Every day he hit on a tee.

That's how he got better.

He didn't do it all day.

He blocked a half hour in the morning every day to hit on a tee. That's how he became the best contact hitter in the league.
You look at the best salespeople, they're doing the same things. Look at Crothers and the stuff that he talks about with the big, huge middle market accounts that everybody wants.
He's got like two or three simple processes that you just do over and over and over again. And like I, this concept of being busy and being overwhelmed, it doesn't allow you to capitalize.
This is where I see the biggest issue besides the family stuff. So taking the family stuff out of the way, because I think that's a given and a no brainer.
I think you're right about that. From a business perspective, if you are always busy and hurried, you're not able to take advantage of the serendipitous opportunities that are presented, right? Because you're like, oh, I got this other thing I got to do.
So I can't take this opportunity that's last second. Well, if you had your time blocked and stuff was done, and you had baked in free time into your life, well, now when an opportunity presents itself, whack, you can be on it where I feel like we miss a lot of those things.
Well, and two misconceptions, Ryan, that you kind of alluded to there are one, you want to be creative, schedule time during your week for creative thinking. Yeah.
I, in my calendar, social media can be, can suck you in. It can trap you.
I found myself last night on Instagram reels scrolling for way too long and it traps you. I, in my calendar, I have two times during the week, Tuesday afternoons and Friday mornings where I have an hour blocked out to scroll social media.
That's where I engage in, you know, different groups and insurance groups and people and see what they're doing and comment and like, like it's intentional. I'm doing it now so that it doesn't take away from life later.
But you're just because your schedule looks this way this week doesn't mean it's going to in three weeks because what matters most to you is determined by the season you're in and

seasons come and go so you can't just say hey here's what we're doing in January and this is

what my schedule is going to look like in December because this is how I live life Monday through

Friday I've never achieved my ideal week you have to leave room for margin you have to leave room

for those conversations the serendipity the word you used those are going to happen so you can't

be so anal of saying no I can't talk to you right now because this is the time I'm doing my quotes

Thank you. the word you use, those are going to happen.
So you can't be so anal of saying, no, I can't talk to you right now because this is the time I'm doing my quotes. You got to leave room for life.
But when you have your schedule blocked out and the purpose of my planner is not to list your doctor's appointment, who you're going to lunch with. The purpose is the blocks.
You got outlook. You got iCalendar to handle the day-to-day.
You got your task manager. You got your CRM.

This is the block so that you can focus and know, hey, right now, my goal is just to get through my email.

Because I know if I clean up my email, it relieves a lot of stress and pressure on me later in the week.

I try to be very disciplined.

Thursdays is the only day I have meetings.

And that's meetings.

That's family, friends, employees, clients. I block out Thursdays.
There's some Thursdays where it's nonstop from 7.30 a.m. to 6.30 p.m.
and you get to seven o'clock and you feel like I accomplished nothing today. Nothing got done.
All I did was talk and sit and have coffee and meet with people all day. But guess what's no pressure to meet with people for the next six days now i get to go implement everything that came out of those meetings without the added pressure of stress of you got to hurry you got a deadline no because i don't have meetings all week interrupting what has to be done so just being very very i was gonna say intelligent i mean be intentional intentional that's the be intentional everything we do is intentional and from the very beginning of this conversation this time with you from covid politics parenting family insurance schedule training hiring it can be summarized living intentional yeah putting purpose to everything you do uh and yeah as you can tell i'm passionate about that's how i want to help our industry i want to motivate encourage and challenge producers agents salesmen and women to be the best version of themselves and the only way you can achieve that inner peace is when your time the most valuable asset you have aligns with what matters most to you.
ProducerDP.com. That's ProducerDP.com.
Guys, go check it out. I highly recommend the planner.
I'm going to get the planner. The course, obviously, as well.
But just follow Brandon on the socials. Dude, this has been a tremendous conversation.
I'm so glad we finally had a chance to do this on the podcast. Um, I think, uh, I think you're doing great work and, uh, hopefully a lot of people will go and check out what you're doing and at least get in your ecosystem.
And when they're ready, um, they'll take a deeper dive, but producer dp.com. What's the social, where do you want them to connect with you there? Um, at Brandon Smith is the most common name.
Um, so the S is the number five, uh, at Brandon five

M I T H. Nice.
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