RHS 098 - Clint Pulver on Why Great Leaders Are Mentors

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In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show.
We have an absolutely tremendous guest for you today, and that is Clint Pulver. Now, Clint came to me via another great guest that we had, Alan Stein.
So if you roll back into the archive, you'll find Alan Stein's episode where Clint and Alan are buddies. And Clint reached out to me and said, hey, Alan had a great time on your show.
I'd love to come on. And I am so glad that Clint reached out because one, his book, I Love It here, is wonderful.
It's exactly what our industry needs right now. And what this conversation is all about is the work that Clint has done as the undercover millennial.
Essentially, he went undercover into all kinds of businesses, Fortune 500 businesses, up and down the chain, basically interviewing employees as if he was looking for a job. And I'm doing some paraphrasing and some glossing, but the things that he found out from these employees about what made a great manager and what made a terrible manager, and he came down with just a wonderful breakout.

I'll be honest with you.

When you don't know somebody and you bring them onto your podcast,

you never really know what you're going to get.

I didn't have any negative perceptions,

but I certainly didn't know.

I had never spoken to him before.

I was blown away.

Absolute pro.

The information is top-notch. It is exactly what our industry needs today when it comes to organizational leadership and the leadership that we need in this industry moving forward.
And Clint delivers super actionable. And the book is awesome.
I mean, I'm reading Jordan Peterson's book, Beyond Order, right now. And as soon as I'm done with that, I even say it during the episode, like, this is the next book I'm going to read.
I've leafed through it. I have it.
I may do an audible too, but I just think you're going to love this. This felt very timely to me.
So Clint, Pulver, you're going to love this episode. Before we get there, I want to give two of my sponsors a shout out today because they're now doing business together.
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Okay, guys, with that, let's get on to what was a fabulous conversation and get your notepads out because you're going to want to take some notes on this one. Clint Pulver, here we go.
Ryan, what's going on, man? What's going on? Life is good, dude. Yeah.
Dude, you're an interesting cat. And getting researching just to, you know, I mean, obviously I read through a bunch of your stuff, but I felt like every page I hit on your website took me to another thing that you were doing.
And I was like, this guy's got to have like an elephant brain to keep all this together and remember all the different stuff that you go, which is a good comp. I mean, it's a compliment.
It's tremendous. And it seems like it's all so well done.
It's, it's. Thanks, dude.
I appreciate it. It's a little crazy.
Yeah. Do you prefer life that way? Do you prefer it a little crazy? Do you get like a little rammy if things are settling down? I do.
I like to be busy. I like to have something that's pulling on my heartstrings that pushes me to, to, to move.
I do. I like that.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think, um, I thought everybody, cause I feel as I'm the same way. Um, as much as I will at times complain about being too busy, I would always rather be too busy than not busy enough.
That's when I get myself in trouble, I guess. But because that's when the really crazy ideas start to take shape in your brain.
But I thought for the longest time that everybody was that way. You know what I mean? Everyone just kind of preferred to be going.
And it wasn't until I started maybe getting into my 30s or whatever that I really realized a lot of people and not a knock. This is not a knock.
Just it's people just aren't this way. A lot of people just kind of like having a nice routine, not being stressed, kind of moving through their day.
And, um, and, and, and again, that this isn't a negative, because whatever makes people happy, but it seems that that is like, that's like, I feel like someone is just slowly knifing me to death like that kind of thing. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm very much like that.
I mean, I'm, I'm all for two. Like you gotta have balance, right? You gotta have those days and those times where you put, you press pause and you can slow down.
And yeah, I mean, I've been hospitalized because I push so hard at times. So I've definitely learned to like, stay the state, stay the balanced lifestyle as much as I can.
But I do like to be anxiously engaged in a good cause. Yeah.
So what, what, what got you into like, well, now you, you got the book and you're doing all speaking, but like, you know, I think my audience, you know, so we had talked a little bit, my, my audience is, is insurance. This is an insurance industry focused podcast.
So I have people and a shout out to all of them listening, everything from, you know, CEOs of some of the biggest insurance companies in the entire country, you know, the, the, the travelers, Hartford, Chubbs of the world, although I'm pretty sure Evan Greenberg doesn't listen, but I know some of his higher ups do, all the way down to brand new, been in the industry for days, in some cases, you know, sales and service professionals in their very early twenties. And, you know, some of them may be aware of your work, but some of them may not.
So, you know, as far back as you want to go, and I mean that in the most professional sense. So you don't have to go back to, you know, I was raised on the farm, unless that's important.
But, you know, give us a little history. And then I want to get into some of the real tactical stuff that you're doing.
I want to talk about some of the core concepts because I think they're super important for where we are today. Yeah.
So growing up, I was the kid that always had a hard time sitting still. I would just tap, like move my hands.
I would hit the desk. I would play with pencils.
I would just move. I had a hard time focusing, call it ADHD, call it whatever you want, but I just couldn't focus.
And all the other kids called me the Twitcher. I got nicknamed the tapper because I just couldn't focus.
I couldn't sit still. And obviously that's a problem.
Uh, if you're a teacher and you're trying to teach a class and some kids just constantly disrupting everything. And I had a teacher one day as I was tapping and he looked at me and he said, young man in the back, he said, you, he said, I want to talk to you.
I need you to stop tapping for a minute. And we're going to have a conversation after class.
And all of the other kids are like, oh man, you are dead. And I'm thinking in my head, like I'm getting kicked out of school as a 10 year old.
I'd already been labeled the problem. I'd been sent to the principal's office before.
And now teachers telling me to stay after class bell rings, everybody leaves. It's just me and Mr.
Jensen. And he takes me to the back of the room.
He sits me down. He says, listen, he said, kid, you're, you're, you're on the list.
Did you realize that? Like I, everybody talks about you. You're the kid that never never sits still you tap in my class and you tap in everybody else's class he said but i've watched you though he's like i just sat back and i i watched he says it's crazy you'll do your assignment you'll take a pen you'll start writing with your right hand and you'll tap with your left hand and then you'll switch the pen you switch the pen you'll start writing with your left hand and you tap with your right hand.
And he looked at me and he said, I think you're ambidextrous. I was like, no, I'm Presbyterian.
He's like, no, that's not what it means. No.
He said, can you tap your head and rub your belly? He said, try it. And I gave it a go, tap my head, rub my belly.
And he said, then can you switch it? He said, can you rub your head and then tap your belly? And literally, without thinking about it, I could do it. And he sat back and he looked at me and he said, I don't think you're a problem.
I just think you're a drummer. And that statement, man, it changed the course of my life forever i'm somebody right i believe in moments i'm a big big big fan of moments that's that's what we remember in life we don't remember days you remember moments those significant unexpected events those things that you're in the right place at the right time where somebody said the right right thing at the right time.
And it changed everything for you. Because in that moment, Mr.
Jensen, the old teacher, he leaned back in his desk and he opened up the top drawer and he reached inside and he took out my very first pair of drumsticks, my very first pair. And he put them in my hands and he said, Clint, I have no idea what's going to happen, but I want you to just keep them in your hands.
And let's see. I just, I think you're a drummer.
And that was 22 years ago, right? And I can, I can honestly sit here today and tell you that, you know, 22 years ago, literally to this exact day, I have tried my best to keep my promise to Mr. Jensen.
And for 22 years, I've traveled the world as a professional drummer. And I've been on America's Got Talent, played drums with Carrie Underwood, Tim McGraw, played with the Blue Man Group for a while.
I remember I graduated high school, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. So what do you do when you graduate high school and you have no clue? You go to college, right? It's a joke.
I went to college, man. I graduated in 2012 with a bachelor's degree and zero college debt.
Zero. And that was from music scholarships.
And I don't say all those things to go, wow, good for you, Clint, or oh, what a list of accolades. No, the reason is because one teacher looked at me as a young kid and decided to advocate for me, not just to develop me.
And in doing so, he changed the course of everything for me. It's funny how when you are that age, and maybe you knew, but in those moments, it's oftentimes, it's often hard to recognize the moment in the moment, right? It's later on that you're able to sit back and, and, and understand certain things that certain people said to you at certain times and how they shaped, uh, who you are.
And, um, you know, it's funny. I had a, I had a football coach, so, uh, you my, my family is, uh, I grew up very, um, I guess blue collar.
My dad believed in the union. My mom worked for the state.
So things like entrepreneurship, sale, like sales was like a dirty word in my house. Like, you don't want to be a salesman.
You know, like I, at one point I showed interest in being an engineer and they were like blown away. Like that, that's perfect.
You get an engineering degree. You're set for life.
You'll make 85,000 bucks. You'd be great.
You know, you never worry about stability. Yes.
Yeah. You show up at the same place every day.
They can't fire you. You know, that was like the huge, huge thing in my house and no one had ever been to college.
They didn't really understand what that meant. They just knew, you know, it's better than it's better than fixing trains all day or stamping TPS reports.
Okay. So, uh, you know, I, I remember I, I had a football coach and he was a mean bastard.
I mean, just, I mean, awesome, but, but mean as hell. And, uh, he would, I mean, and this is, this is the old day, the old days.
This was, you know, 30 is 30. Well, they're 25 years ago.
Um, I'm a little older than you, but he, he would get right down in practices and he would hit you like a player in high school with no pads on. He would get down in like a four point stance and he'd be like, I'm going to show you how to do this.
And he would run over high school kids twice his size with no pads on just to show him like, look, I'm 50 years old, and I can run you over you're doing something wrong. And my point in telling you this is, you know, he, he one time, I did something stupid in practice, I was, I was a middle linebacker.
And I did something stupid in practice. I was a, I was a middle linebacker and I did something stupid in practice and it was, it was lazy.
What I did was lazy, whatever, whatever. I can't remember exactly what I did, but it was, I did something lazy.
He blows the whistle. Now we're, there's 50 kids.
These are all my peers in high school, walks out on the field, screaming my last name at the top of his lungs over and over again. And when he reaches me, he picks me up by my face mask and he shoulder presses me into the air.
So I'm dangling. My feet are dangling.
My head is just hanging on by the gin strap. And here's this guy half of my side shoulder pressing me.
And he looks at at me, he didn't even say a word at that point, sets me back down. And he said, I assume you understand that we don't tolerate laziness.
And, and, and I was never lazy again, ever on the field. And what I, you know, in my point in sharing that story with you is that that wouldn't have worked for every kid.
Your, your teacher handing any, every, if he handed every kid a pair of drumsticks, not every kid would have connected and taken those drumsticks and turned it into the career you have. So it's like, these moments are so serendipitous, that it feels, you know, it's just, it's just so I'm, it's so random how these things impact our lives and change the course of what we would have been come because he could have done that for 100 kids.
And maybe you would be the only one who would take it as far as you did. Yeah, for sure.
And I think, you know, the cool part about that story,

though, is he designed it, Ryan. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
It wasn't just like all randomly. He's got drum sticks in his drawer.
Like, here you go, kid. Yeah.
Go play the drums. No, he designed it.
He

was very methodical in creating that. And sometimes we have no idea, right? You have it.

You're in the right place, the right time, something happens, and we don't even recognize

the moment when it's happening. But there's power in when somebody actually takes the time to design it, to create it in somebody's life.
That's where you really can start to move the needle, whether it's in sales, it's in leadership, it's in parenting, it's in relationships. You get good at designing moments, man.
Yeah, and that's a of what I want to talk to you about. Um, you know, and it's funny that you bring that up because, um, so, so going back to the moment that I shared too, is my coach, he comes up to me and, and he loved me.
I mean, I'll be honest with you. Like, this is a guy who was, um, you know, my, my, my, my father, uh, for my sophomore, junior and senior year of high school was in jail.
So I didn't really have a male role model doing during what are some of the most important years of your life. And so this guy very much was that.
So he comes up to me and he throws his arm around me after practice. And this was like a big moment.
I mean, there would have been kids crying, you know, and he throws his arm around me and he goes, you're the only person on the team that I could have said that to in that moment and have every other person on the team. And again, not to my own horn, just, just, you know, and, and I, I, I taught 50 lessons with one lesson, you know what I mean? And I hadn't really thought about it until you just said it, but, um, he, he a hundred percent did that on purpose to me.
And he would teach other lessons to other kids to show everyone, but that is such an important point that these designed moments and really putting thought into them. So, so let's, let's, let's get into a little bit about you have this undercover millionaire program, our millennial program, sorry, not millionaire, millennial.
What is this about? Like, what does it mean going undercover? I'm sure people have heard like undercover boss on TV. Like what does this mean and what is it all about? Yeah.
So five years ago, I was a part of a mastermind group. We're in New York city and we're in downtown Manhattan and we're meeting with other business other business owners ceos executives about their business and how they've built these dynasties and they've they've reached this level of success and one of the guys that we met with owned a sporting good retail chain in in in the city and we're in we're in the store and we're talking to this guy about his business and how he scaled it and he always had to adapt to meet the changes of the market and he had had this thick New York accent.
And I'll never forget. He said, you got to adapt or you're going to die.
If you don't adapt, you're going to die. Fairly profound statement.
I said, okay, I agree with you. Then I said, so what about your management style? Have you had to change how you manage your employees today versus how you manage people 20 years ago.
And he fired back

and said, no, no, the way I manage today is the same way I managed 20 years ago and we get results.

I said, all right, another fairly profound statement. And I looked around the store,

Ryan, and all of his employees were my age or younger, all millennials or Gen Z high school,

college age kids. And I thought to myself, I said, I wonder if they would say the same thing.
I wonder if they would have the same perception that the CEO does. And so I think the guy for his time, we had 35 minutes to kill until we needed to be to the next place.
I had nothing else better to do. So I just walked up to one of the employees and mind you you, I had a backwards hat on regular clothes.
I was a customer. I wasn't affiliated with it.
They had no idea who I was. I was just a customer walking into the store.
And I went up to the first person. I said, Hey, I'm just curious.
What's it like to work here? The employee kind of got quiet, looked around. I feel like we're doing an illegal drug exchange.
Yeah. And he says, he said, do you, do you really want to know? And I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, I do.
He said, I cannot stand it here. He said, dude, we're all cogs in a will.
Is it just, this is just a job. I don't even think my manager knows I'm here today.
I was like, okay, well then why are you working here? And he said, I've already applied to three other places. As soon as I get a chance to bounce, I'm gone.
And I'm thinking, okay, maybe the kids had a bad day, right? He's just, he woke up on the wrong side of the bed. He's just, you know, it's not a good day.
So I went and asked another employee and another and another and another. And then at the end of 35 minutes, I had interviewed six of his staff, his team members.
And at the end of those conversations, five out of the six of those employees said they would not be working for this guy and his store in less than three and a half months. Dude, the reality of the employee experience versus the perception of leadership was completely night and day different.
And that was the moment that started my, my organization of business, because I thought to myself, man, the CEO has no clue. Like he has no idea and he thinks he's killing it.
Yeah. Most managers have no idea that they're doing poorly.
And I just, I wanted to tell him. I wanted to let him know.
And I noticed that I created an environment purely based off of my age and the casualness of it, that they were able to speak their truth. Most companies will do employee surveys, right? Like, well, let's survey our employees to see how we can do better.
I remember when I was in corporate America, I never answered honestly on those surveys. Yeah.
Who's going to put, so they sent it to your email. Hey, this is anonymous.
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.
No, I'm writing a safe answer just in case. Or we sit down with a one-on-one management meeting.
Your manager's like, what can I do to be a better manager? Dude, I'm not telling you face to face. I'm not getting blacklisted.
I'm not going to be the dramatic one. Yeah.
Who turns around and goes, well, my first suggestion is don't be a dick. That would be a good, I mean, no one says that.
No one says that, but that's what they're thinking. Yeah.
And so we have created an environment where people could speak their truth. And I have done this for over five years now.

And we've worked with 181 organizations.

And I have interviewed thousands of employees.

And the magic, though, Ryan, of all of the research was not when an employee was dissatisfied with their job.

Or they hated their boss.

Or they told me about all the things they couldn't stand.

The magic of the research was found when I would go up to an employee and say, what's it like to work here? And they would respond with, I love it here. I love my job.
I do. I mean, my manager, Susie, she's amazing.
We're a family. Like it's, it's just a great place to work.
You should apply. And then with that, that response would trend in an organization from person to person to person and to see, you know,

to have the curtains lifted and figure out why and what those great leaders were doing

to create organizations that their people never wanted to leave.

It was powerful, man.

Yeah.

And we decided to write a book and that's why I titled the book.

I love it here.

How great leaders create organizations that people never want to leave.

And it's all of our research for the last five years that I've conducted as the undercover millennial. Have you worked in the insurance industry? Yeah.
Yeah. So what's interesting.
So this is my very subjective, not, you know, so I've never been the undercover exennial or whatever the hell I am at 40 years old. Um, I don't really know.
I I'm that weird gray area that no one seems to want. You're an exter, dude.
Yeah. Um, so, um, you know, the, the subjective, you know, I, I get a lot of people who, who email me just cause I have the podcast interview, a lot of people in the industry.
And I get really, um, a couple of things. I get people who are completely frustrated.
They feel like they get, they have, they're constantly roadblocked by fat old white guys. We talk about it all the time here.
Um, and, and there's no place to go. they hit a ceiling very quick in organizations and moving from one agency or one enterprise to another is really difficult.
It's really easy to get blackballed. So if you hit a situation that isn't great and you move, and then maybe that one isn't great either.
You move again. Well, now no one wants you because they think of you as a bouncer.
So people get really wary. No, that's a thing.
And then the other side is, you know, and this tends to be completely determinant on whether they have equity in a business or not. They freaking love it.
It's the best thing ever. Greatest career move they ever made in their life.
I have no idea. I've been on both sides of those equations.
So I have no idea how to play that, but that's what I see. I'm super.
And I think a lot of people listening would agree. I'm really interested in, in what you've seen in the insurance industry and maybe your opinions on that kind of really, um, I don't know what the right word is.
Um, the spectrum seems to be very far apart. I don't get a lot.
I don't meet, I don't hear from, or even meet a lot of people who are like, eh, it's okay. I don't hate it.
I don't love it. It's either, geez, I don't, I got to figure out a way to get out of here or my situation's got to change, or this is the greatest industry ever changed my life.
You know, what, what is your experience, Ben? Yeah. So in the insurance world and in a lot of organizations, there's four types of managers and management, I think is something that's worth talking about because it's the number one reason why people stay.
It's also the number one reason why people bounce management. So if an employee was satisfied or dissatisfied with their job, I could always target it in on two variables, the standards of that manager and the connection of that manager or the lack thereof of both of those.
So the first manager that we find in the insurance world is the removed manager, the removed leader. Like they're just burnt out.
They're tired. They could care less about the standards, your goals, your quotas, what you're doing, what you're not doing.
If you show up on time, if you don't show up on time. And they're also low on connection.
They could care less about you as a person. Like they're just running through the motions.
They're in the organization, but they're not into the organization. So what does this create in the workforce? Disengagement.
Why should I care? Why should I perform? My manager doesn't even know my name. Why should I show up on time? Nobody cares, right? And you don't care about me as a person.
Disengagement. The second manager is the buddy manager.
This is the manager that wants to be liked by everybody more than they are respected. Like this is the manager that will go play Xbox on the weekends with all the agents, right?

They want to be friends.

Everybody's a homie.

And so then when they come in guns a blazing and they start cracking down on quotas, they

start, hey, guys, we got to do better.

Like everyone's like, dude, we just went and drank on the weekends.

We just went and hung out.

Like, what is this?

Now you're my boss?

It doesn't work.

Creates entitlement.

That's where you find the employees

become more of the boss than the boss does because they're the buddy. So the third, the third, the third I would say is maybe, maybe a little bit in line with your coach you talked about.
I think your coach though also was a massive mentor as well. So we'll get to that too.
But they're what we call the controlling manager, really high on standards, really high on expectations, low on connection. This is the manager.
It's like, put your head down, go to work. Don't cry to me.
We're here to sell. We're not here.
You know how we used to do it 20 years ago? Don't whine, don't whine. Don't complain to me.
Barefoot in the snow. Yeah.
You want me to show you that I love you? I give you a paycheck, okay? Don't ask for like some company cruise or some special treatment. No, no, no.
Do your job. And this creates rebellion, pushback.
These are the coaches, the managers, the leaders that are going toe to toe with everybody instead of shoulder to shoulder. But the fourth, the fourth manager, I think was really important.
And when I found an employee who hated their job, they talked about the manager, but when they loved their job, they talked about the mentor. And that's the fourth person, the mentor manager.
They were high on standards. Yes, we have a job to do.
We have to be profitable. We need to be growing.
But they also understood that you're a person and that you have a life outside of work. And they understood how to empathize and how to connect.
No significant loyalty will ever happen without significant connection. Mentorship was priceless in this, Ryan, because mentorship is not leadership.
It's also not management. Mentorship cannot be given.
It's not a title, right? Nobody gives a title to a mentor. You're not like, you got this promotion, now you're a mentor.
It doesn't happen that way. Mentorship has to be earned and it's earned by who you are.
And when a manager became a mentor in somebody's life, where they advocated as much as they developed, when somebody looked at that person and said, because of you, my life's going to be a better story. Because of who you are, I'm going to be able to progress in this industry.
Because of who you are, I like myself best. That was the number one contributing factor that led

to higher engagement retention. And we can talk about all the other things in what great companies

did, but if you did not have that relationship where people could grow and see a possibility

because of you, it never worked. Because too many times they see a limitation because of you, it never worked.

Because too many times they see a rating review if you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow.
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I'm out of here. Peace.
Let's get back to the episode. That's why I love those four.
That is, I mean, that is, I love the way that you talked about them and broke them out. I can really connect to it.
I would say, so if I'm talking to, let's, let's, if I'm speaking to independent insurance agencies in particular, so these are traditionally five to 15 person, single location, local organizations that in many cases are family owned and operated. Okay.
So what I find most often in, in when someone working inside of one of those organizations is disenfranchised. And I'd say this is tends to be the vast majority, especially today, if they're run by baby boomers, nothing against baby boomers in general, just in particular, you're messing up our world.
And I wish that you guys would move on. I'm joking, you know, I all love you.
God dang it. All right.
So is, is they are the third one that you mentioned. They're high functioning, low connection, high standards because of the regulatory nature of our industry.
These type of people tend to be drawn and stick and be successful because they're detailed, they're six Sigma brains there. You know what I mean? Like that's what they love.
But then when it comes to, you know, you get a, you get a kid in who, who, who is maybe a little more emotional or is, and I don't mean emotional in a bad way. I just mean, you know, wants to have a connection, wants to grow, wants to, and there's just none of that.
It's just write a list of 200 names, start calling them, get in your car, get out of here. That whole, like, if you're in the office, you're, if you're, if you're in the office, you're not working mentality.
Um, and I, I struggled with it 15 years ago when I first got in the industry. And I know a lot of the young people who have come in since it hasn't gotten any better.
Uh, uh, 25 year old today, I was 25 when I first got in the industry, a 25 year old today connects with that mentality even less, at least that's what I found than I did 15 years ago. So, you know, how, I guess what I'd talk, want to talk to is one, if you feel, if someone listening feels like they're that kind of leader, they're struggling to make those connections, or they write the bitch posts on Facebook about millennials or this or that, which I think is nonsense.
And they, but they want to change, right? They, what are some things they could do? And then I'd really like for you to also talk a little bit about if you're that kid, kid, you know I did air quotes, everybody, that kid in the, in the industry who, who does have that boss, who's, is there something they can do to maybe massage them into a little bit more of a mentor? I don't know. Yeah.
So here's the thing. As a manager, it's important to remember you cannot control anybody.
You can't. You try.
Managers try all the time. Fear-based tactics.
Do your job or I'm going to fire you. You better do this or I'm demoting you.
Or like we use these fear-based principles and that works for a time. I'll be honest, the controlling manager, they get results, but it does not last.
And we are in a world now, I guarantee you, and I will say this till the day I am blue in the face, that we have done research during COVID-19 and year 2020, high retention, high retention. It's like the highest it's ever been for the last 40 years because everybody's scared.
Everybody was nervous. Everybody was like grateful they had a job.
Everybody hunkered down. We're all uncertain about the future.
But as we have done research, we worked with 47 organizations during COVID-19 and I guarantee guarantee you, when we come out of this, which we are now coming out of, in quarter three and quarter four of 2021, all business employers that have not connected, that have failed during this time of COVID in understanding people and good leadership and empathy and connection, you will be losing massive amounts of employees. There will be an exodus.
Why? For two reasons. Your people will remember.
They remember how you treated them during COVID-19. And I saw some horrific things, Ryan, that leaders were doing to people during COVID-19.
They remember. And second, this time has given everybody time, time to think, you know, is this really what I want to do with the rest of my life? It knocked us out of the routine.
And so many people's jobs today look different than they did in 2019. And the world is changing and people now are realizing, oh my gosh, I could go, I can work in New York City and I can live in Texas.
I can live in Utah and work in California and I can cut my living expenses and I can make twice as much. If you do not, if you are not willing to change, if you have that old command and control style model of leadership, have fun being a solo entrepreneur or how, or be really good and be comfortable at constantly hiring and rehiring and retraining your people.
Yeah. And that's costing your organization thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars.
And I love it because I think it ups the ante that bosses and managers are kind of going, okay, we got to change some things. We got to change some things because the revolving door of employee turnover is killing us.
And so I recommend five C's. If any manager became a mentor manager, it's because they possessed these five C's of mentorship.

If somebody earned the loyalty, that voluntary act, not where it was forced upon somebody, but where, check this out.

Could you imagine if an employee voluntarily chose to follow somebody?

They voluntarily chose to show up to work and to work hard for the leader, not just for themselves, not just for the paycheck, not just for the love of the job, but actually for the leader.

Thank you. work and to work hard for the leader, not just for themselves, not just for the paycheck, not just for the love of the job, but actually for the leader.
It's because they possess these five C's. I call them the five C's of mentorship.
Number one, that leader possessed confidence, confidence. I'm not going to mentor with you if you're not confident in yourself and you're not confident in your ability to help me get to where I want to go.
Confidence exudes trust. The second C is credibility.
What's your credibility? That's something that the baby boomers have a lot of, right? They've got a resume. They've got history.
They've got a background. They've sold a lot before.
That's a good thing. If you're my car sales dealership manager, I want to know if you've ever sold a car before.
That matters. The third thing is competence.
Competence. Are you a practitioner or are you a theorist? There's a lot of managers, even in the insurance world, that they haven't sold insurance for years.
Or ever. Ever.
They sit back and they run the ship. Their administration.
Not an insurance salesperson. Like there's a difference there.
I want to mentor with someone who's a practitioner that's actually in the

trenches doing it, living it and breathing it. Competency matters.
And number four is candor.

Honesty. Now that's not being a douchebag.
That's being honest. They build relationships,

Ryan, so strong that honesty can exist. I want to mentor someone who's going to give it to me straight.
Who's going to tell me what I need to know when I need to know it. And it's going to help me to get better.
Why? That leads to the last C because they care. They truly care.
Like you talk about your coach came out and he grabbed you by the face mask.

Yeah, that was a time where he was really honest with you and created a moment.

But you also knew that he cared about you.

He had your best interest in mind.

And those five C's, dude, if you've ever had a mentor in your life,

someone that you have voluntarily chosen to work with,

someone that you look at as a mentor, you would call them a mentor in your life, I guarantee you they have all five of those C's. And so if a boss is listening to this or a manager and they're the controller and they're saying, okay, well, how can I get into this mentor mode where I can give people a reason to stay? Start working on those five C's.
Showcase those five C's. You know, understand, I, I'm good at being honest, but I'm not good at caring.
I haven't created the bank account where I'm putting in deposits of trust that allow me to make the withdrawals. Too many times managers, you're literally looking at your employees like a fireplace and you're saying, give me heat, then I'll give you wood, right? You stand in front and you're like, give me the results, go out and make a sale, do your job.
Then we'll talk about recognition. Then we'll talk about maybe an increase in pay.
No, no, no, no, no. It needs to flip.
Why? Because every employee is asking you this, this, this important question as a boss, let me know when it gets to the part about me and all your controlling managers, they hear that and they go, well, those entitled little shining stars in my life, right?

It's not about entitlement.

It's about good business.

It's about bringing humanity back into the workplace,

and if you don't, they will go and find it somewhere else.

Change it.

Flip the script.

Deposits of trust. That's what's going to allow you to make some withdrawals.
It's such a, it's such an interesting, it's such an interesting, this, this topic is, is incredibly interesting to me. I've, I've seen it from so many angles and all, all the things you're talking about.
And as you're, as you're, as you're talking, I'm running through all the experiences and moments that I've had, both as a manager and leader and as being managed and led. And, and it's amazing to me.
So I, I operate from, from, I would love to say that I operated the mentor, the really good one. That would be amazing.
You know, the ego in me says, hey, I think at times I have sat in that place. I also, there's also a part of me too that definitely sits in the just do your freaking job.
Like sometimes, and I guess this would be the pushback that I'm sure some of the people listening are having. Yeah.
I think we all agree that the, well, I shouldn't say that. I think most people agree, special people, especially leaders and managers who care about success would, would listen to the description of a mentor manager and say, I completely get why that's the most successful, completely get it.
I think the pushback would be, and I'm really interested in your thoughts on this

concept is sometimes I feel like I'm really giving everything I have and they still want more and

they haven't earned more. How do you work that line? Because I have definitely been in times where

fairly honest person, fairly caring. I literally opened up a conference that we put on with 850 people with a speech called Give a Shit, The Secret to Success.

um i like i get everything you're saying and i believe it and i and i'm working through my mind where places where i probably need to be a little better but um but there are also times when you're

like just do your freaking job like i get get it, but you know, so how do you walk that line? How do you, at what point I wrote down when you were talking, what if it doesn't work? What if you're doing all five C's and you're killing the game and Clint comes in and goes, check, check, check, check, check. You got all five C's, bro.
You're good to go. And your employee still isn't connecting, isn't working.
What do you do then when it doesn't work? Yeah. There's a thing, there's a thing called a bad hire, right? There's a thing called a bad apple, bad employee.
Someone that's just, they're not teachable. They're burnt out, right? They're the removed employee.
They don't want to work. They're just, they're, they're, they're literally in the company, but mentally and emotionally, physically,

they're gone.

They're checked out.

That's that, you got to make a change, right?

Like you hear the age old saying of like,

you can lead a horse to water,

but you can't make a drink.

Yeah, you can.

You just, you give it salt, right?

So you connect, you connect.

You put salt in the oats,

that horse is going to drink.

So if you connect with somebody

and you're doing everything that you can to do that,

and you're doing it in the way that they want it to be done,

Thank you. You put salt in the oats, that horse is going to drink.
So if you connect with somebody and you're doing everything that you can to do that,

and you're doing it in the way that they want it to be done, that's another thing.

So many managers, they come in guns a blazing and they feel like, I know what you want.

I'm going to recognize you the way that I would want to be recognized.

I threw on the conference.

Come on.

I give you time and we sit there and we chat every once in a while.

Come on, I'm connecting with you. Are you connecting in the way that they want to be connected with? There's another old saying of if you feed a man a fish, then you feed him for a day.
If you can teach the man to fish, then you feed him for a lifetime. Every time I hear that, I say, who said the guy wanted a fish? Who said the guy wanted a fish? I'm kind of a state guy.
There's also like 40 different ways to fish. So.
Yeah, totally. Right.
So the point is, is, is you do your best to individualize the connection. There's no one size fits all approach.
And so if you've got an employee, that's just not doing their job, that's when you come in and you create what I call a status check. Now a status status check is important.
Most managers don't do this. This is not a one-on-one.
This is not a time to talk about performance. I would recommend every manager does this with every A-list employee.
If you've got your employees that are killing it, that are doing great, if they left tomorrow, they would put you in a hard spot. Take the time and have a status interview with them.
My background's in the medical field. I was in the OR for a long time as an orthopedic specialist and that the doctors would always call out what's the status of the patient.
I need a status update. What they're referring to are the vital signs of the patient.
So the heart rate, the respiratory rate, the body temperature, and the blood pressure. Those are your four vital signs.
One of those things are gone. You're dead.
Employees have vitals too. It's a living, breathing organization.
And so it's up to you to check the vitals because the vitals determine treatment. Sometimes we're just trying to treat the employees the way that we want.
You've never checked the vitals. You've never checked the vitals.
Yeah. And so check them.
So we, I would recommend three questions, three questions to, to, to do this great status check again, with your A-list employees, not the person that's just a dead weight. Those people you need to coach out, right? Sometimes we work really hard at coaching people in.
We got to work at coaching people out. It's just not a fit.
It's not working out. That's okay.
That's okay. You're not going to change every employee.
Remember you can't't control anybody. You do your best to connect.
You do your best to communicate standards. You do your best to advocate, to become the mentor.
But if somebody doesn't want to be mentored, they don't want to work, you can't control that. So coach them out.
But if somebody's willing to work with you and they're a good employee, you see potential, three questions that every employee should be asked right now. Number one, what can I do to keep you here? What do you need? What, I mean, I just, and, and to every status interview, Ryan should be started with vocal praise.
You know, you call employee into your office, they're freaking out. They're nervous.
They have no idea what you want to talk about. Sit down and just say, listen, John, I just, you're killing it.
You're doing great. You've been with me for two years.
I appreciate you. I appreciate all that you're doing.
We're coming out of COVID-19 right now. And I just want to know what I can do to keep you here.
Listen, just ask. Too many managers, they're afraid to ask the question.
Because what if they ask for a 20% raise or they want ski passes or they want free Cheetos and more beanbag chairs in the office? And you can't do that. But what if they do, you know, maybe they're on the fence, right? You can't lose that person.
And maybe they just, they need a little more guidance. Maybe they do need a promotion.
Maybe it's something that a raise is, is deemed worthy because of their efforts. You don't know.
You don't know what that is for them until you ask. Maybe they need to leave an hour early to pick up their kid.
It's, I love this. I completely love this because this is something in, in, in, in, in, I'm going to say this come speaking specifically to the people listen to the show.
Too often, we are too rigid with especially our service staff with they need to be in the office at this time till this hour and the whistle blows. And if they leave in 10 minutes early, then Sally's not invested in the company.
And I think that's complete horse crap, especially considering where we are. And if she needs to go pick up her kid or he needs to go pick up his kid or whatever, then we have to be able, if, if, if John can be there at eight and Tammy can be there at nine, then work that into the schedule.
There's no, this is what we have to do. We have to be more flexible to bring in the best people.
There's a talent. There is a, there is a talent shortage, not that the people in our industry aren't talented, but this industry in particular struggles to bring in more fresh, talented people.
And a lot of it has to do with our rigidity. And I think this is a major problem.
So I love that question. I love that question.
So question number two is then what is getting in the way of your success in this organization? Remember, your job is to block for people. Your job is to mentor, advocate, become that person.
And so when you know what's getting in the way for them, you get to block. You get to become the advocate.
Okay, I'm here to help you. I'm not just here to manage you.
That changes that model. Now, it might be, they might say, you know, it's the schedule, right? Like, you know, Susie drops the kids off and it would be amazing to have, you know, some time off early every day so I can go do that.
Or it might be, you know, it's David that's been in this position for years and I know I'm never going to grow. That's getting in the way of my success.
Again, you don't know until you ask. Yeah.
And number three is what can I do to help you get there? Again, you cannot control anybody, but you can control yourself. You can control your actions and what you do to make the employee experience better.
And my goodness, stop with the,

I'm so tired of managers saying,

I just want them to work, just work, just work.

And they're saying, just connect, just care.

And again, we stand in front of the fireplace,

give me heat, then I'll give you wood.

Doesn't work.

It doesn't work that way.

Unless you want to be a solo entrepreneur

and you're okay with the revolving door of turnover.

So again, I like to push.

I don to push. I like to always think about what is the, what is the person sitting there who's fighting this? Cause I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I think it would be silly to agree otherwise, but there are silly people in the world. So if I'm going to fight this, I'd say, well, Clint, Jesus, 30 years ago, when I was coming up in the industry, man, no one asked these questions.
No one, I didn't have to care about feelings. John and Tim and Tom and Susie, they showed up at eight.
If they were on time, they were late, they were earlier, they were nothing. And my thought is, I remember my parents just being, and my parents are amazing people.
I love them to death and they're both hard workers, but they punched clocks and you got, you know what I mean? They did their thing and their world, their life that they lived was everything that happened outside of work. Right.
I mean, everything, it was all about all the things you did other than your job. Sure.
And I think the opportunity and what you're saying is sure you can, and tell me if I'm wrong here, the opportunity here, if you really invest in the concepts that you're talking about is yes, you can come in and just make your 400 calls and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is what you do.
And, and you know, not give a shit. Yes, you will probably get some results as you said, but the opportunity is there is so much more that people can provide to an organization.
if you nurture it out of them, the people that align with what you're trying to do, like you said, and this is how you get out of them. It's like, yes, you could get this much success, but man, if you do this connection, these five C's as a mentor manager, man, there's a whole nother level you could take your employees to.
Any good business owner knows that business is about the long game. It's not about short-term gains.
Who's in business for a short-term game? That's not how it works. It's about long-term success.
It's about staying in the game. And it's this mentality of staying back into the world that was 20 years ago, right? 30 years ago.
Punch the clock. Be glad you have a job.
Put your head down. You got a pension.
You got benefits. You're in the union.
Be glad. Like, just do that.
That's gone. That's gone.
We do not live in that world right now. I'm sorry.
We don't. And if you don't adapt, go back to that New Yorker that I met.
If you don't adapt, you will die. And they're feeling that right now.
And then they sit back and back and everybody just gets disgruntled and they're mad and they're bitter. And oh, it's so hard to find good talent these days.
Nobody wants to work. Maybe it's you.
Maybe it's you manager. Probably it's you.
Yeah. And right.
You can't change anybody. So change yourself.
If you want to survive as a business, my goodness, why would you want to create a workplace where people are just surviving or a workplace where people come in and they're stressed and they're fatigued and they're unhappy? They're dissatisfied. They're not engaged.
Like who wants to create an environment like that? I mean, there's some sick people in this world and maybe you're the manager, the, oh, you're listening to this and that's you. Then, man, I feel bad for your people.
I feel like though genuinely most great leaders, good people, good business owners, they want to create a working place where people thrive, where people have a certain level of happiness because that always increases productivity. That increases empowerment.
That increases profitability. So.
So why would you not do that? So tell me if this thought is off base, but I'm going to assume or I'm willing to make the assumption that most managers who will put in the average to poor category aren aren't necessarily doing it on purpose, or even because they're necessarily lazy. I think a lot of it has to do with fear, like their own self-preservation.
Like they literally don't know how to survive. They're worried that if I praise, man, if I praise Clint too much, he's going to jump me.
He's going to become senior VP before me because I'm telling everybody how great he is. And so I, you know, so how do you, how do we start to break down some of those, some of that fear and, or, or what is your answer or what is your, what are your thoughts on that? Because just to me, and maybe I read too much Jordan Peterson, although I'm an enormous fan, everything seems to come back to our own personal fears and insecurities in terms of how we interact with the world.
And so many of these managers seem like they're just trying to hold their little fiefdom together. And it ends up being not working in the long term.
It goes back to what you said about short-term thinking. Yeah, so many managers shouldn't be managers.
like we promote a man we put a manager in a position because we had no we had we didn't

know what else to do with them. They were a good employee, they were a great sales agent.
So shoot, let's just give them a management position. Doesn't mean you should be a manager.
You know, sometimes, and we look at that as an ego boost, right? Or a raise and pay. And my goodness, if you left that, then you just got demoted or that's looked down upon.
But unfortunately, there's a lot of managers that are stuck in these management positions and they hate managing people. Like the thought of advocating for somebody sickens them because that person might get ahead of them.
You should not be a manager. Your job as a manager is to be a steward, is to advocate, is to be a mentor, is to grow somebody, like to develop them into something better.
And if that is fearful for you, yeah, you're not going to succeed as a manager because everybody's asking the question, let me know when it gets to the part about me. And if you constantly are deflecting that because of your own insecurities.
Yeah. Clint, this has been awesome, man.
I mean, I literally could talk about this topic with you for hours. But I want to say I want to say two quick things to everyone listening.
I know there are a lot of people listening who put on conferences in our space

and that you're starting to book those conferences. I'll tell you, I don't, you know, I don't publish

the video. I just published the audio.
I'll tell you just from watching him and his mannerisms and

the way he's working this thing. And just from, just go check out his website and everything.

I'll have all the links, obviously. I think Clayton would be a great book for some of the keynotes that are coming up for some of the events that are being sponsored in the fall and even beyond.
So definitely look into him for that. And the book, I love it here.
Dude, I'm in the middle of Jordan Peterson's second book, Beyond Order, right now. This is going to be the next book that I read, bro, Cause I, it's, I already got it, you know, in prep for this, but like, I'm so I'm excited because this to me, um, you know, I, we didn't, I don't know if you probably don't know anything about my business, but I'm in the growth phase of, of, uh, my own independent agency.
Oh, my own business. It's, it's probably doesn't look a lot like a standard agency.
And I just believe so strongly in the way that you are preaching leadership. And I think our industry is in a nice transition cycle right now where second generation owners are starting to take over and new, new, new, younger, younger, you know, forties, th 30s agency owners are starting to rise up and create

their own organizations.

And it's the perfect time for your message to hit our industry.

So I hope more people will grab the book and that you'll be on the circuit a couple times.

Hopefully, if I can help do that at all, because I think we need this industry needs to hear

what you're preaching, man.

I appreciate it.

Dude, it's been an honor, Ryan.

It's a pleasure to meet you.

Thank you for having me on the show.

And let's do it again. Great.
Thanks, man. All right.
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