RHS 056 - Jeff Roy Schooling the Game

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Not available in all states or situations. so what up everybody and welcome back to the show and I mean the show, the podcast.
You are here and you're getting something special today. Not special because of anything I did, special because I'm lazy.
And what I mean by that is I recorded an episode that you've already heard if you listen to the show with Jack Wingate. And it was amazing.
And I got to the end of that episode and I hit stop record. And then as always, we kept chatting about a couple different things.
And then I had daisy chained episodes. So meaning I had scheduled Jack Wingate.
And then right after Jack Wingate, scheduled Jeff Roy yes that Jeff Roy well me and Jack are bullshitting and Jeff Roy pops into the zoom and then we just started rapping all of us all three of us started rapping and I just hit the record button and frankly we didn't even really talk about a lot of the stuff that I wanted to talk about with Jeff because Jack was there in the most positive way. Like we're just, we're just wrapping and going and talking about stuff that, that insurance people talk about.
And it was one of those moments that I felt had to be captured. I'm, it's such a pleasure to share this moment with you because I feel like this is the way really forward-thinking, forward-leaning insurance agency owners think.
This is where their minds are. This is what the conversations are like over a glass of whiskey or a couple beers or whatever when we can actually get together.
And it's just such a pleasure to share with you. I mean, quite literally, this is why I do this podcast is being able to share moments like this with you.
And I wish I could share more of them with you, but glad that I got this one to be able to give to you. And I hope you learn something and I hope you take something away and I hope you connect with Jack and connect with Jeff and I hope it helps you grow your business.
Before we get there though, I want to give a real quick shout out to Advisor Evolved. Chris Langell and his team at Advisor Evolved do an incredible job.
I get questions all the time about, you know, Ryan, who built your website? Who built your website? And I tell them there is no other website option in the insurance industry other than Advisor Evolved. There are other website providers, but if you're looking to actually grow your business, then you need Advisor Evolved.
You need to be part of the community, you need the product, and you need all the tools that come with an Advisor Evolved website. Go to advisorevolved.com or just Google Advisor Evolved or Google Chris Langell.
Most likely, you'll get a picture of him on the Jersey Shore doing his thing. But, you know, I mean, that's an inside joke.
He's from Philly, actually. But Chris is an incredible guy.
He grew up in the independent insurance industry world. He transitioned that into a love for website design and has built the website product for independent insurance agents.
Get an Advisor Evolved website today if you don't have one. You are losing business if you do not have an Advisor Evolved website because people aren't finding you.
And I have an Advisor Evolved website. There was a no-brainer for me it was he was my first call and um i just highly recommend chris langel and advisory evolved and with that i give you jeff roy jack wingate and myself just wrapping insurance and then i was looking at tech canary and then applied by tech canary so seth's working us integrated with Applied.
Hopefully that works because Applied's got 70% of the market up here, and they've got the best rating. So we're 80% personal lines.
I can't live without their rater, so I have to love them. And meanwhile, they're gouging the shit out of me on price, but can't fix it, right? So I'm not a big Applied fan, but I have to love them and move on, right? Yeah.
I knew that you were kind of in that beta group. I didn't know that you didn't have the full thing.
I mean, are you doing what you thought it would do? Well, it will once the setup. Like nobody's really set up Marketing Cloud for insurance that I know.
So the good thing is we're doing a lot of really kick- ass marketing stuff. We've already got all the marketing, but it's in 10 different devices.
So we're taking 10 into one and we're going to have the data once that's done. And I think we're going to be able to help a lot of the other agents.
Cause I thought most other agents were doing what we're doing and I'm finding out that we're doing a lot more stuff than the average Joe. So we're going to help other agents and they're going to help us.
They're gonna to have some cool shit like, Hey, this work in Canada. I'm going to grab that, bring it North of the border.
And as I always say, Canadian eyes it and vice versa, there'll be American eyes and stuff. So it should work pretty decent.
But yeah, so things are okay. Like you said, never content, never happy, but we're progressing.
And you know, as you said, as an owner, never, there's no finish line, you know, as soon as you think you hit the finish line, that's on the truck hitch in the side of the head so you can't stay complacent you can't not do anything and you can't cruise and uh that's what i mean you know we're just grinding right now i've never grinded ever i always keep saying i've never grinded so hard but i'm grinding because there really isn't much else i can do anyway you know i can go sit by my pool and hang out but i can't really travel i can't go to the u.s can't go anywhere like you know I'm going to a friend's cottage for the summer for a couple days that's my holiday like we plan to go away a few places but that's all kibosh so the good thing is work on our business and make sure people are safe and help out in our community and yeah that's kind of our it's funny my wife said you know it's um she she knew I always worked hard she said but since because I'm working in the basement right now, dude. Yeah, pretty damn good basement.
I like all the video stuff, man. You have the sweet road mic back there? Yeah, like you shooting – You need a road mic.
You shooting like X-rated movies down there? You get all the stuff? Oh, yeah. But, you know, she was like, I knew you worked hard, but, you know, having you be in here for, what, three or four or five straight months, she was like, you don't stop, you know? And it's like you said though.
I mean, if I was, if I still had to go out and just all I did was sell policies, I'd shoot myself in the head, but there's always a different challenge every day. So I'm, you know, that's what keeps you.
That's what keeps it exciting because there's always, I like solving something that hasn't been solved or blazing a trail and you know i i like being uncomfortable because i always seem to be uncomfortable that's the gig i'm kind of getting used to it but uh that's good like you know as i said you're solving problems you know you mentioned about bottlenecks like i look back to critical paths you know operation management from business school you're always trying to find the bottleneck of the critical path and as you grow that path moves around and you're always trying to fix a new problem. Like it's like a video game.
I put a thing on Twitter about Donkey Kong and you're going up different levels, right? And the donkey's throwing the barrels at you. And sometimes you get whomped, you get thrown down, but you get back up and you figure a way to beat the level.
And then you're going, damn, I'm good. Get to the next level.
It's like, holy shit, I don't know what I'm doing. And then you try to find the smartest person in the room or somebody who's already done it, and you say, hey, how did you do it? And then you rob and duplicate and make it your own like American Idol.
And it's like becoming an artist, right? You got to go on the road, play your songs, grind it out. That's kind of what we're doing, right? That's the best way I can give analogies to how to do it, right? You know, Jeff, one of the things that Jack and I were talking about um during when I was interviewing Jack was uh that it feels like and this is a I don't want to say the because I don't think that's appropriate but this is a golden age or we're entering a potential golden age for independent agents and the impetus for this is not just technology which I think is the obvious answer what you just said, which is our willingness as agents to share so deeply and so openly what we're doing in our businesses with each other so that the people who are searching for solutions can find them and make them their own in their agency.
Do you agree with that? Yeah, 100%. It's like we're a big Linux.
I'm throwing the code out there. We're all writing the code together.

I wrote an article for Hanley

for his last agent standing.

Actually, do you want to do a screen share?

Throw me a screen share.

Can you screen share?

I'll show you something cool.

I think you just have to request it or something.

You have to make me the presenter,

so right-click and make me the host.

I know, Ryan, you're always in control,

but we're going to flip it over. Today, the part of Ryan Hanley will be paid by Jeff Roy.
I'm okay with that. All right, I'm just teasing.
I like this. I don't even have to do anything.
This is like the best episode ever. Jack just interviews Jeff.
I just sit here and listen. It's great.
I'm going to show you this just quickly. I don't think it's – can you see that? Yeah.
Can you see that PDF or not? Yeah. The customer journey, can you see all this? I see Hanley downturn.
That's not making me feel super good. No, it's not what it does.
His notes were those. It's the typo, no downturn.
It's Hanley slash, and then there's J-A-C-K-A-S-S. And I was like, what is going on here? Come on, man.
No, no, it's all good, buddy. Let me just, I'm just trying to find my, why is PDF not coming up? Interesting.
Just a second. One thing, I guess my PDF is on the wrong screen.
Didn't know how sensitive this was. Give me one second.
I don't want to take too much of your time, but I just want to see if I can get this to pop up. Oh, damn.
Anytime I can fit in on a group of Jeff Roy and Ryan Hanley, I'm just going to sop it up. Ah, there we go.
Sorry, I had the wrong thing open, but give me one second. I even showed you my throat punch shirt.
Boom. Nice.
Oh, it sent me a motorhead shirt it's pretty cool you know we're about to roadies going on the road so i was wearing it for my last podcast that we're doing a canadian podcast called the digital insurance pint and uh seth sent me a shirt and i wore it in the podcast but i don't know nobody really asked me what it meant so it's too bad but uh give me one second i'll bring this up that is weird I don't know. Nobody really asked me what it meant, so it's too bad.
Give me one second. I'll bring

this up. That is weird.

I don't like how this screen shares.

Yeah, you can

pick your entire monitor, or

you can pick very specific...

It didn't come up

because I had different versions of this, but let me try

this again. Screen share.

All right, there we go. Can you see that?

In one second? It's going to give you's gonna give you okay you will see that now oh here comes something you see that yeah yeah now I can see it yeah we're building a about my article and disparities that we're building customer journey maps where you go from awareness to consideration and all that stuff we're building out journeys so this is our 17 page document we're we're focusing on parents of young children and we're trying to move them through the funnel awareness interest consideration action purchase and then we've looked at three segments so we took seth or uh not seth but uh j bearers five by five model and we just came up with three resource strain parents do the right thing parents and balls in the air parents and then we looked at the segments of you know why they're trying to stretch a dollar we kind of explain them then we break it down for awareness we start writing blogs and we have questions that we answer in each segment so we're going to create videos we're going to create blogs i've got another page about a 10 page document our team put together hey at this stage what does it look like well we have a video that pop up we might have you know some ads on on Facebook that communicate parents. So we've kind of gone through the whole journey where we talk about, you know, interest.
You know, some parents, we're going to talk about being frugal. So we went through the whole journey in terms of different pages and segments and basically figured out what to do in the entire journey.
And then at each spot, they can jump into a funnel. And that way, basically, we hopefully they go, I want to jump in and get a rate from these guys these guys complete me so we're building this up we're building about probably about 25 pieces of content they'll be all interconnected and we're building a content journey to go after these personas to see if we can bring in a better class of business and then we've done after we do that we're going to apply it to dinks which means double income no kids going to apply the same process.
And some of the articles will work. We just need to write it towards double income versus family.
So that's kind of where we're at right now. We're going to put this on marketing cloud.
And hopefully this drives traffic like we've never done a better quality of business. We find we can bring quality business in, but it's not always quality.
900 leads, 300 or 400 are shit. We don't want to write, but we're still bringing that business in.
I shouldn't say shit, but not super quality,

right? Our markets don't really want that. And then we find 50% of our leads we actually get

in touch with. So some of the people are just playing around.
So out of 900 leads, there's

what, 450, 500 serious leads. And then we have to, once we really work those leads well, but we get

a lot of stuff like the shaft. I guess when you're panning for gold, a lot of stuff flies out of the

Thank you. hundred serious leads and then we have to once we really work those leads well but we get a lot of stuff like the shaft like i guess when you're panning for gold a lot of stuff flies out of the thing when you're panning looking for the gold that's kind of the process we got so we're just trying to refine that right now but i thought you'd find that kind of cool we got this i didn't go through we get a 17 page document that we're working through and working through a persona building all this content journey like videos blogs we need to do.
And then we have a funnel that when they click on it, it looked like a family and it'll speak their language. So hopefully when we get somebody into that funnel, they're going, wow, these guys get me.
And we may have contests. And one of the things we're doing, I don't tell anybody, but we're doing a night, a coloring book for the night, the Excalibur night coloring book.
We're going to give out our new his kids will color it'll tell a story in there and you know one of our staff said the vet gave me a book when I was nine and I still have it at this day because I love that coloring book it meant a lot to me so never thought of a coloring book so we're gonna build a coloring book like how many insurance brokers will build a coloring book right so but we're gonna do it because it's on brand and people will get it in their new business kit and it'll be kind of an experience. They'll be also getting, meanwhile, the book will talk about, we looked at that, everything I learned, I learned in kindergarten.
We could take those messages and put it into a book for kids and actually, you know, their coloring plus their learning stuff at the same time. So that's kind of one of the projects we're working on.
It's kind of deep, but hopefully at the end of the day, everybody's like, wow, these guys got me and they get into our funnel and we write them and we maintain them as clients, right?

Hey, Jeff, is that – I'm sorry, Ryan.

No, you're fine.

Is that your normal – like I identify a niche.

So right there you identified this niche of parents.

Is that your normal workflow or is this like, hey, let's try this? Because this because i mean that's an in-depth funnel and you know strategy we're trying this for the first time i'm just sharing with you what we're doing like we've never done this like we're running adwords right now driving people to landing pages we're getting seven and eight dollar clicks actually more like four or five dollar clicks we're generating 10 11 leads on pay-per-click and we're closing probably ten percent which is a hundred dollar acquisition cost which is cool that's working well we're getting about 300 to 500 organic leads through our website a month so that just comes in and we again you can't control what comes in through your website is much you write content you drive people but it's good stuff comes in bad stuff comes in but the good thing is it continues to turn. We just have to keep working on the SEO, but we've never actually said, Hey, this niche, we want to really go after.
Like we, the one thing Excalibur hasn't done well is we're not niching anything and we don't have any affinity groups and we're just good at personal lines and we, we have a really good process and we have a good brand, but we don't really go after, you know, group plans and stuff like that. We've never done well at that or been able to kick ass or affinity programs.
And that's something we'd like to bring on board in the next year, if we can get this dialed in. But if we can be the people that, hey, families, Excalibur gets us and go after that whole thing and people go, wow, Excalibur understands me.
I didn't click through. I want to know more because they're speaking my language.
Because most right now our content is generic and it speaks to everybody like you know hey we get defenders blah blah blah but i'm speaking to the pain points of a family member like hey you've got no sleep last night you got an hour to do your insurance it's five o'clock you've got three hours sleep and as your insurance broker there can i book an appointment we have all that stuff right there for people to consume to hopefully get them into the funnel right we actually speak what their pain points are and we address it with our services and we you know we speak the language of parent that's what we're trying to do so this is something that again this caught we're just I'm just riffing with you guys we haven't figured out this is gonna work I wrote an article about agents writing random acts of content where they're right a fucking kick-ass blog about whatever and then you know they some SEO traffic. But I have a picture that shows basically a fantasy island or a beautiful island, a deserted island, and then basically a shark's mouth where the shark mouth, the content's crap and it eats you.
The bacon island or the isolated island you go, there's one great content. You're stuck there.
And then if you have multiple content experience content experience you get a resort and you basically get people into three buckets so we're trying to figure out the resort concept where we have a we parachute people into a good experience and hopefully they consume stuff and they they we answer their questions they jump into our funnel and then we we connect with them that's what we're trying to do so that's what my article in a nutshell is what I wrote for, for a pair of easels, a magazine. And I talk about this now.
We're actually, this is the first time we've actually applied it at this depth and I have no idea if it's going to work, but I think it's going to work better than what we're doing now to bring people in. But I'll know a lot more in the next three to five months when we roll it out, we test it, we fail, it doesn't work.
And I'm pissed off. We have to tweak things, but that's kind of the things.
I just thought I'd share it to you guys to see what you thought. Yeah, and I think so for us.
I started doing this at the beginning of the year to a way, way lesser extent than what you're talking about, but for us, putting content out was always just sort of a freaking shotgun approach, like, hey, I'm going to write about this today or whatever. I had Jared over here hammering out Instagram because he loves that.
And so our messaging was all disjointed. And so kind of selfishly, I knew I needed to tweak some of our content pages, like the workers' comp page or whatever.
So I would pick like a theme of the week, and we still do it to this day, and it's helped us tremendously. So this week it's workers' comp.
So everything we post on social is all going to be built around this one thing,

which is basically like what you did is taking that up about 15,000 notches.

But I think that's where a lot of people mess up is that there's no plan for their content.

It's just sort of rapid fire.

I'm going to throw this out there and see if it sticks instead of kind of like Hanley was saying, like he doesn't promote his content as well as he should. It's the same thing.
It's what's the strategy and the plan. And once you, that's half the battle right there.
Well, it's a flip because people look at, you know, our SEO guy can say, Hey, here's the 10 topics people are talking about. I need to have an article about that.
And you write an article and hope somebody shows up and you might have a call to action on the page, but what's the next step? They don't want to take your call to action. They're done.
They'll bail. So a lot of people consume one page, they're gone, right? And that's the bad content journey where if you can build, you know, once they're here, here's eight other questions they may ask and you actually have them linked into that page and they can consume it, then that's content journey.
And I went to a thing called Uber flip last year in August and I was the only insurance guy there to like 900 people and that's where I learned at conX about hey here's how marketers do it here's what b2b b2c look like and I started speaking a different language and just being around those people taught me wow we we don't get it at all you know our page looks kind of cute and uh our brand's good but we're just not our content's not nailing it so everybody is talking about blog blog blog well blogs good but you got a blog with purpose you had to create the journey so that's where I think everybody's got hung up where they wrote a couple of blogs on nothing's happening they give up and it's like you know it's like doing a workout program I'm gonna go to and do P90X and do three days and want to look jacked or I want to, I want to,

I want to,

I want to be a,

I want to be a,

I want to go to CrossFit for three days and be in the,

and win a competition.

It doesn't work that way.

And that's the problem right now.

I think a lot of people just,

they want the easy fix and they don't want to do the hard work and they don't

want to learn.

Like this is this hard stuff.

Like I just,

you know,

it's not easy stuff and I don't know if it's going to work.

Awesome.

There's a lot of,

there's risk involved and we're spending a lot of money and time on

it, but I feel it's the right path and I feel it's going to be better than what we have.

And I think we're taking a step up from what we're doing before.

So I'm confident that it's secure.

When Jay Baer says, here's what you need to do.

We take the, we took his formula.

It's a 230 page book.

If you want me to send you the PDF, Jack, happy to send it to you, Ryan.

Please do.

I've got it.

I can flip it over to you. I think I got your email, Jack'm not sure if not uh i know i got you on facebook so uh flip me a messenger and i'll flip it over to you i can do a we transfer but it's good and again we had to we looked at it and then the problem is we tried executing it it was harder trying to come up with the questions in each category than we thought and then what does the content look like come? Come up with the questions.
Do you just answer it with a blog? No, you got to have some video. You have some variety.
So that's kind of what we're going through. And I don't know if it's going to work, but at least we're going to try.
And as I always tell you, launch, learn, fail, fix, right? What's amazing to me about that, Jeff, is that, and I'm sure it's the same way in Canada, but I can sit around here and I can Google, you know, insurance agent, Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And if I find people's websites, if I can find them, they're crap.
I've been to your website. It was a good website to begin with.
It wasn't just a pretty picture that a lot of people throw up there. I mean, it had content.
And Jeff just said, you know, it's not just about doing blogs. You know, it's got to be deeper than that.
I mean, you're the 1% of people and gosh, I hope I'm getting there at some point in time that understand that it's not just about doing the minimal work. You've taken what no one else is doing and said, shit, this doesn't work.
It's not good enough. I got to do better.
I mean, he said, he said, Jack, he said he said you know he got 900 leads in one month and people are gonna hear that and go you know how the hell did he do that what's it you know what's it you know what are you doing what's your secret and then you you know you hear it's an 18 page breakout document outlining a customer journey with personas and questions and second and third tier content with multimedia follow-ups, hard follow-ups. I mean, that's how you get to that level.
And I think in general, we talked a little bit about this one during our thing too, like so many people are looking for that quick fix. And the answer every time with every person who you talk to who's successful in any regard, the answer is always, I went deeper than everybody else for longer than everybody else.
And that, and eventually I got there. That is always the answer.
And I mean, that's Jeff, you've been diving into this stuff for a decade. I mean, we've been talking about content for 10 years.
So it's not like this is, you know what I mean? And it shouldn't turn anyone off. You know, I don't want people to hear that and go, well, geez, you know, I'm screwed because I, you know, I don't, 10 years, but you can get really far fast.
But then that next level, I think is what takes a lot lot of work. But get really far fast.
Do the work.

Put some work in in time and start to think about it.

There's some hacks.

Again, you have to grind it out.

There's no such thing as an overnight success.

And Malcolm Godwell has 10,000 hours.

You look at all those things.

But there are some hacks to get through it.

And, again, the hacks are your agent friends that have tried things

and jumping on their learning curve.

And I think, was it Reader Rabbit? Task Rabbit? Sorry, Reader Rabbit. I think that was a video game or a book, but Task Rabbit, the one they talked about, the power of the human cloud, where, you know, a lot of people would go on board.
They would have a task. People would hire them.
And what happened is all the people on the board started sharing skills. So I might have had one skill and I shared it and I could do 10 different things.
So they're sharing and monetized everybody else. So Jeff Roy was good at mowing lawns.
Before you know it, he's a handyman and he can do 10 more things. His revenue went up 10 times.
Why? Because he shared and he was part of a bigger collective. And that's where the agents that would be successful are going to be part of a bigger collective.
They're going to share. And that's, you've seen pockets, you know, you get classes, agency intelligence, you got IAOA.
There's a bunch of different groups out there that work together. Now, some of them got really big.
So some of that sharing is hard because it's so big, right? You need a, almost a smaller group. People set up a mastermind group, right? The power of the mastermind, whatever it is you do.
But the more times you're out there running into people, belly to belly, face to face. And again, in the COVID world, zoom to zoom or go to meeting to go to meeting, the more chance you have of stumbling upon, man, I never thought of it that way.
Or that idea worked for them. Why isn't it working for me? Or, you know, better yet, that person, wow, they don't, I can't believe they're doing it.
If they can do it, I can do it, right? Like, there's a like there's a lot of that stuff right like but you know a lot of times people look like they make it look really easy but it's kind of like the duck that looks calm in the surface and the legs are going crazy below there's a lot more below the iceberg of the water than most people see and that's where it's just about grinding it out right and it's not being scared to fail I know everybody wants to not fail I think the only reason we're starting to get a little bit better is we're not scared to fail we're still trying stuff we're not sitting around waiting for you know things to fly into our hands and you know just we're not waiting for things to come to us we're trying to make things happen and we're trying to do things and a lot of you know I bet you I've had way more failures than most people in the last year that's why we learned right like I'm just failing fast failure right fail forward whatever you want to say just back I feel like I'm giving one of my talks but it's the same thing right like it's what you do it's got to be part of your DNA and as soon as that's part of your culture and your DNA the chances are you can accelerate and get through things a little bit quicker and then you're going to hit walls like I'm in a wall right now we have to scale train better our training isn't good enough and I'm trying to figure out how I can put everything online, videos, you know, basically. And then you're going to hit walls.
Like I'm in a wall right now. We have to scale, train better.
Our training isn't good enough. And I'm trying to figure out how I can put everything online, videos, you know.
And I heard about Quantum, Jeff Shea or whatever. He's killing it.
You know, he's my new superhero. And I met him during COVID.
He's part of our mastermind group. I reached out to him.
And him and I had chatted during COVID. And he was going to get me some masks for my area.
He got a line on it. We did, we got to know each other just over COVID and I'm looking forward to circling back, but I look at what he's done for training and we have to, as agents acknowledge, if you listen to Cass talk to his assistant, I forget what her name was off quantum.
She did a great webinar about how they're training. Yeah.
Kayla Eggers. She, she killed it.
In my opinion, my opinion. I was out watering my plants in this hot heat, listening to her with my Bose headset on.
I couldn't stop it because I'm like, wow, this is a person that's solved. One of the things, I'm not good enough.
I'm going to reach out to Caitlin. I think it's education out of assurance.
Written down the email somewhere. That's on my list to do.
I haven't had time this week, but before Friday's up, I'm going to reach out to her and Jeff and say, I want to learn how you guys do it. I want to open up the hood because you guys are doing it way better than me.
I'm the first one to say, Hey, we're not good enough. Show me something better.
And likewise, if somebody needs help, I'm the first one to say, here's what we're doing. You know, here's what's worked.
I openly share with people. I've always done that.
Right. And it's always the law of sharing reciprocity for agents whatever you give comes back in spades I think that's something that if more people could learn that and I wish the past generation shared a little bit more because there wasn't as much sharing my dad's generation you know he was scared he was by himself he's a business guy he didn't have anybody to share with and that's a very lonely existence and difficult I look at all of us on the phone here you know jack brian you know we've got a pretty good network of friends and if you can't figure it out you don't know something you can pick up the phone and there's 30 people you can call to help you and every one of them will help you you know but nobody ever asked everybody's too humble to ask yeah it's it's it's ego and and i and and i what I love about the network of people that I feel blessed to be part of, you two are in there, but there's hundreds, if not more, thousands maybe.
I feel like one of the defining characteristics, and I hate to talk generationally, but at least of this segment, this particular group of agents and agency owners that are pushing up through is that there is so much less ego. It's not when you go to events, it's not, you know, everyone's walking.
Well, I did this much premium this year. And, oh, you know, I made the gold club of Safeco.
Or, you know, I mean, that's the kind of stuff. My dad's bigger than your dad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd be like, oh, you know, my agency's been around for 100 years and mine's been around for 107 years, you know, and it's like no one cares anymore.
You know what I mean? Like you walk around and you're talking about every aspect of your business and people are open about it and they're like, you say, you know, we're struggling to train 10 years ago, you saying that people would be looking at you going, Oh, look at Jeff's agency screwed. Look at the weakness.
You know, he can't train his people. You know what I mean? That's, that would be the mentality.
But today I feel like so much of that has been brushed aside where people are now like, what's going to happen is they're going to hear that. And they're going to go, Oh my God, I got this great training platform.
I'll share this with you. You'll be bombarded with people helping you find solutions for how to, how to distribute what you want them to know.
Like that's, I feel like that has flipped. It's one of the things that makes me the most happy about where we are as an industry is that just in my time in the industry, which has not been that long, 13 years, 14 years, I feel like from then to now, the difference in terms of the ego that people have for their business, the openness, the willingness to share, that has gone 180 degrees.
It's almost like who can share the most and in a positive way. And I just love that about where we're at because it allows someone like me who I've failed a million more times than I've ever been successful, but it's only because in every time that happens, I get to call one of you guys and go, Hey man, what am I screwing up here? This thing isn't working.
And, and I, and, and then you, everyone else is willing to take that call and share how they fix the problem. Well, the funny thing, and I don't, I'm sure Jeff, you're the same way.
Well, I don't know, because you do it at such a high level, but like Jason Kilgo, he like, we've become, I guess, somewhat good friends. And he called me up there and said, Hey, do you have some time to show me your video setup? Someone wanted to know my video setup.
I was like, okay, come on now. But you know, so he calls me because he wants some help and I'm more than willing to give it.
And then what inevitably happens is I start talking to him about what he's doing in his business and I pick up something. So it's, you know, it's, it's, we've reached that point where it's, if someone would just ask, you're not infringing upon someone's time.
I can guarantee you most of the people that I know, Jeff included, you more than willing to help because they know, one, it betters all of us, but also you're going to pick something up too. Yeah.
You know, it's a great world we live in. No, I know that, you know, my 31 years, I just celebrated 31 years of broker.
I got my license at 18. When I first started, there wasn't a lot of stuff.
My dad had a George Nordhaus binder on his wall, IMS Services, I think it was called at that point. It's funny because I hooked up with him five years ago.
I told him I saw that book was the first thing I saw in marketing for insurance. And we didn't have any marketing.
We didn't even have a computer. I put the first computer in our office back in like 89.
And, you know, but back then there wasn't, I didn't have this group of people. There's no internet.
Like the internet really changed the game because you could find people all over the world once people learned how to do it. And people were never closer to find people and you could hook up with people but I didn't have that opportunity it wasn't probably till 2010 my last 10 years is when I really hooked up with people and that's when the good stuff started to happen right and I was in a I would say a vacuum or a cloud I didn't have the great like I just like I look at it wow if I had all these people now when I was younger man what the difference that would be and I don't dwell on that but I know what? I want to make sure that I'm, you know, I try and help people as much as I can because I didn't have that access.
So I want to make sure that I can help and give back in any way I can for people that matter. Right.
Cause I just, there wasn't much around and, you know, I don't want other people to be in a vacuum and, you know, not see the light. And we want to try and help agency owners get to another level.
Right. It's all about getting up levels.
And, you know, it's not the numbers that defines you. It's what you do to define the numbers, you know, basically what grind you're doing, you know, the culture, everything you've built, that's what it's all about.
And it's about enjoying the work. And it's not about the destination.
That's about the journey along the way, right? And if you have good people, and you surround yourself with good people at work, and your friends, I always say you become the six people you hang out with the most, choose wisely. It's really important that you surround yourself with good people because this business will beat you up if you're surrounded by bad people.
And none of us – it's hard enough to do this business if you're doing everything well, but surrounding yourself with bad people can be very difficult. Yeah.
Cool. That was a fun session.
This kind of happened in nowhere, right? Yeah, yeah. Well i i didn't mean to take up all your interview there i'm sure you know let's go i love it that was great it was great i was great just like uh i didn't know what jason i had no idea what uh we were ryan and we also we're gonna talk about we're more getting caught up so i had no no idea any chance i can get to have you on the show is a win for me.
I, uh, you know, I always have a very small agenda and my, what I was really, what I really was interested in is the podcast and your idea, your, I was interested in this, I love the content journey stuff, but this whole idea and the fact that you've started a podcast and that you're, you're reaching out into the market and that you're taking that time to do that. Um, I'm interested in that mindset because I've seen, I'm starting to see like, I have a local podcast that I do, but I've been podcasting since 2013.
I, um, you know, I'm, I'm, it comes kind of naturally to me seeing you. And I think Lipstone is starting a podcast and I've seen some other people starting local or niche podcasts.
And I'm just interested in the mentality. Like what's the, what's the, um, what's the motivation behind it? What's getting you excited about it to go and do that work? Cause it's work, you know, it's work like anything else.
Yeah. Well, and again, I have a different opportunities, but I doing it myself and putting the time in and focusing i just don't have the time to block off so i needed a team and adam mitchell a good broker friend of mine mitchell wales insurance he's won the interior broker of the year young gun super good guy good friend of mine from probably the last five or six years in the industry him and i chatted about let's do a podcast.
And then we both got too busy, squirrels, things happened. You know, cutting out time to do a podcast is not easy.
So our friend Tom Reed, who used to run the digital brokers for Aviva, that got brought people, Adam and I knew each other, but he brought Steve Earl in, who's a broker from Eastern Canada, that started up, he has a traditional brokerage and started a broker called cheap up from

scratch.

And we were all friends and we would sit there and riff and we would get

together twice a year and talk,

geek out on insurance and talk about it probably 24 seven.

And,

you know,

we all had very strong opinions.

So we thought,

let's put a podcast together.

So it was going to be the digital insurance beer.

And then we said,

you know,

a pint sounds a little more sophisticated and, you know, in the time it takes takes to drink a beer we're going to try and share knowledge and experience with people uh from three digital brokers that have kind of differing journeys but all have a different perspective of what it's like to change your brokerage and uh yeah we've done i think we've done eight or nine episodes now we've got a website now we're not live so we're going to it. I'm not sure when this will air, Ryan, but I might have to tell you to put this in the archive for a bit until we at least launch the digital insurance pint.
But yeah, that's what we're going to do. And we're just tackling like paperless, going paperless to the consumer is a huge issue right now in Canada because our companies are saying, hey, we want to cut the paper off.
And they're doing it during when most of us aren't super equipped to do it, or we were equipped with, it's going to take some time. So we're, that's an example of an issue we talked about on the podcast and all four of us have strong opinions.
We're trying to have a bit of fun with it. So, you know, I don't think we're trying to change the world with it.
We're not trying to go worldwide and you know, we're not trying to be like the insurance guys, insurance dudes are like Ryan Hanley, but we just think that there's an opportunity to talk about stuff you know there's a thing in canada called hockey night in canada where they have the hot stove lounge where three or four people in the industry talk about what's going on and share insights that's kind of what it is and we will invite some people on so you might be getting a call next year guys uh we're just trying to get through season one and uh yeah it's it's it. You know, as you said, it's not easy.
You got to make sure you're – I didn't say easy, but we got to prepare your script and your topics. But the one thing nobody in our group is shy of is having an opinion.
Yeah. And we have experience and we've all been there.
So it's good and everybody's sharing. Back to what we talked about earlier, It's a sharing economy.
It's sharing ideas and insights. And, you know, we're doing it, you know, for the better of the industry and get some viewpoints out there because I don't think some of the companies and vendors listen to brokers and agents enough.
You know, things are done to us, not with us. And we need to change that narrative.
And one of my things the last number of years is I want to change the narrative. I want to be at the i want to make sure the broker viewpoint is there and i talk about the three legs of the stool there's only been really two legs and you know how stable a two-legged stool is not very stable that broker agent being the third stool with the company and vendors makes all the difference and you want to put a fourth leg on it you can get into accord czo the standards that's the perfect you know's the perfect you know the perfect four legs of the steel that gives you that stability and in the past I got to say people have been making decisions without other parties in mind and they're putting themselves first and you know it's got to be a win-win-win-win for everybody.
So that's I'm hopeful that we can get more dialogue make people understand things and we can continue to build better stuff and better experiences for consumers, right? You know, that particular topic, you know, I look at tools like Tarmica, which I'm obviously an enormous fan of. And actually today, my interview with Raghith from the founder, you know, co-founder of Tarmica just went live.
And I see that as a tool that can help force the broker opinion to the table. And the reason I say that is, you know, just in my four months that I've been doing this right on my own I get a small business account in two thousand dollars in premium I got to go to Liberty and I got to go to Hartford and then I got to log in Hanover system which forces me to go on to a whole different computer to do that because it only works on internet explorer and then I got to go and then I got to come back over to this computer to go to this company.

And then eventually I just get bored of that and I just pick one of them and I go. And they know that that's the way it is.
And then you take a tool like Tarmica, which completely democratizes that process, right? One single entry point for multiple quotes. So now it becomes, now I'm now it's not just whose system do I go to first.
It's I'm staring at your rates side by side with six other companies. And now my job as the broker is to decide which one of you is the best for my client.
And things start to matter beyond just, is my system the first one that you go to, or is it my system, you know, the most UI friendly or whatever, like, like it no longer does these kind of almost like, you know, I don't even know what the right way to say it is like anecdotal items. They don't matter anymore.
Right now it's, I'm staring at the prices. You're $250 higher.
That doesn't even mean that I won't sell your policy, but I actually get now to determine what's going to be best for my client because I don't have to spend all this time trying to figure out who's where and what it's all, it's all standing in front of me. And I look at that and that to me says, as more agents and brokers start to adopt these tools, it's going to put pressure on the carriers to build deeper relationships with the agents so that they're picked out of the list versus before where it was like, oh, we sent you on this one trip.
So now you choose us all the time. And because of that, now you're kind of, uh, you know, we're kind of, you're, you know, a master to a certain extent, because you want to go on that golf trip again.
And, you know, I'm just hoping I see that as a step in the right direction. Does that make sense? Does that logic follow or do you? Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
It makes sense. Uh, you know, once the companies, the rules of the game, the things are increasing right now, the bar is being risen.
So, uh, you need to have an open API, you need, once the companies, the rules of the game, things are increasing right now. The bar is being risen.
So you need to have an open API. You need to connect things like Tarmica.
If you're not, you're out of the game, right? And the companies that don't will be left behind. Now it used to be, who's got a better portal.
That was client, that was company, you know, centric to their advantage because you had to, agent had to learn a bunch of portals, but the best portal one and the one that got the job done, you went to and got it done. But is that best for the consumer? No, it's best for the agent and the company with the best portal.
Now with Tarmico and the open API, you can shop all the markets. You can give your consumer the right advice.
You can make it quickly. It can, it can, it can happen.
You can make it go. Right.
So all positive things to do. Right.
So. And that's just, and I don't mean to overstress Tarmic.
I know people are probably sick of hearing it on this. I just, I'm very excited about it.
There are other tools that do similar things, but it's these types of technology that are democratizing this process that I think help equal the playing field for all partners, the carrier, the customer, and the agent.

Yeah. Well, and because I sat on a couple of the task forces with carriers, they shoot themselves in the foot a lot of times because they'll spend half a billion dollars on their portal, on their rating systems, you know, to stay in their little box where they could spend a fraction of the money, open their API to someone like a Tarmaca, you know, and it not matter what your portal does.
You know what I mean? It's like, wait a second. But they're afraid that if they get out there and exposed, then, you know, the advisor is just going to pick a price.
Nah, that's the way it used to be maybe, but moving forward, that's the sandbox they got to play in. And I think that that's the way it used to be because you didn't have time to go to all seven portals.
You just simply did not have time to individually log information into all, you know, if you only had seven K. So you would just go, I'm pretty sure Liberty's the lowest and their portal's the easiest.
So I'm just going to do that one. And maybe I'll do Hartford too, just to kind of keep them honest.
And I'll just tell the other carriers that they didn't get a shot at this one for whatever reason. I mean, that's not the best for the agency.
It's certainly not best for the customer. And it's really not, it's, it's, it's ultimately not even the best for the agency it's certainly not best for the customer and it's really not it's it's it's ultimately not even the best for the carrier because the carrier starts having risks that they don't even want shoved down their throat because it's just the most convenient system to use yeah the game's the game's leveling up just like i talked about agencies going through cycle the the game's through in cycle.
Everything gets improved. The margins get cut.
Things get more efficient. We call it the plumbing of the industry where you're just connecting data back and forth.
There's no reason why companies should be competing on the plumbing. We should make it open and easy to go through.
The companies can compete on the data and the stuff behind the scenes. That's where the fun happens, how brand you know the features they put into their product that kind of stuff and again you can spend time talking about features and do more risk management if you're not spending your team's not spending time going into seven portals which nobody's going to go into seven portals we know that on a small account you know and again the other accounts are being sent out by fax or i would say more by email and p spreadsheet, Word, or if you have a Tarmica that's being marketed that way, right? In Canada, we have PolicyWorks, a few other ways to market accounts, but they still go out and the person is still a fairly automated process.
And, you know, as we get more and more of the keystrokes out of it, you know, if you cut the keystrokes, you can improve the time and the hands-on with the client and giving advice and doing that kind of stuff and building that customer experience right and improving the agent experience like everybody talks about the customer experience the agent is a customer too i just don't think enough focus has been given to that to make it good for us you know it's like i just got to make it better than the other company like a percent but after i'm a percent better i'm not going to go any further There's not a lot of companies that really drilled into it and really look at,

hey, I want to wow my broker at every touch point.

They may be in the U.S., but I asked agents,

how many companies did anything for you during COVID?

You did stuff for your clients.

We got a lot of memos.

I had a few companies actually reach out and phone us, which was great.

They phoned out and made sure we're okay.

I had two or three companies that actually reached out with a phone call, which was great, But how many companies largely reached out? Jack, did you have a lot of companies reach out? Just Erie did a great job of reaching out and actually saying, hey, you know, they actually gave us a thousand bucks. That's not a huge thing, but it's not garbage.
And said, look. Company did something and gave you money? Wow, in Canada, that would be the only company.
Because, you know, they market share, give us advertising dollars, splits, and they said, look, if you go spend $1,000, we don't even care how you show it back to us. Just make sure you put Erie on whatever it is that you did.
We'll reimburse you the full $1,000. So I was like, dude, that's awesome.
So, yeah, I mean, they were the big – but they're the biggest proponent of that type of stuff in our agency at least yeah that's good that's good well it's one of those things that just it's all about touch points and companies haven't really thought about the touch points for agents it hasn't been updated in a lot of years some companies have i'm not going to be paying everybody with the same brush but i think the companies need a complete overhaul and uh it's funny i had a presentation done for chubb and i was going to present to jeffrey graham and some of his team and i can't wait covet unfortunately stopped that but as soon as things clean up i'm excited to present to chubb because i have some really good insights if i was a company here's the things i'd be doing with agents and brokers to take things to the next level and uh i just don't find the companies really ask or care and they they send a survey out. They want to get a high net promoter score, but they don't talk about doing anything different.
And it's going to be interesting how companies evolve over the next five to 10 years. And there's going to be more consolidation, just like brokers.
There's a huge consolidation in brokers. There's a whole thing about scale.
And, you know, there's going to be still scratch agencies, but there's a certain scale that if you have scale you have the markets you have the the resource to do things it makes things a lot easier and you can get a lot more flow and grow a lot quicker and you can still do well as a startup agent don't get me wrong but you have to your niche you have to be super focused and you know there's there's there's just a huge evolution going through I don know where it's going to end. I don't know what it looks like.

You know, we talk about who's going to win, directs, agents.

That's an age-old debate that goes back and forth like a tennis ball.

You know, I feel the agent's in the best spot of anybody to win

because we don't, you know, just like Uber doesn't own any taxis,

we don't own any policies, and we have a chance to innovate and do well,

so why not us, why not now?

But the connectivity is the biggest issue we feel, in the issue right now is connectivity and moving data. That is the biggest thing plaguing agents from getting to the next level.
And if we don't solve that quickly, you know, we can't start using AI machine learning to really dial things in. That's what scares me.
That's why we have things like Neon with Seth have to get pushed through. We need more solutions like that.
Agents created – solutions created by agents for agents. I'm really bullish on stuff like that, right? So the whole collaboration thing.
Yeah, and we talked about this like just a minute ago with Ryan. It's not just the systems either.
I think when, Ryan, you interviewed Seth, you said – Seth is right there and You said, what can agents do to help you and the cause who might not be on Neon or might not ever be on Neon

or might be 10 years before they're on Neon? And I don't even know that Seth gave you an answer,

but here's the answer. Agents, you have to start doing stuff differently.
I'm not saying you got

to put tons of money in your agency, but like we were talking about, stop selling like Geico

I don't know. But agents, you have to start doing stuff differently.
I'm not saying you've got to put tons of money in your agency, but like we were talking about, stop selling like Geico on price. You know, try to, and if your price is your value, that's fine, but find the places where you can bring value.
I mean, look at what Jeff's doing. I mean, he's putting marketing strategies, time.
Dude, that's crazy. That is a value add right there, what he he's doing because he's willing to take the time to do it.
So don't just rest on your laws. If you want to help the industry out and have it be around, get off your ass, do a little work, call Jeff, call Seth, call anybody and let's do it.
Or don't be upset when no one gives a shit about your opinion. Yes.
And that's really what, that's really where I've gotten with some of the, some of the Facebook groups. You know, I love them.
I love them because it gives you a tone of what people are thinking about. And there are some good questions asked, but there are also a lot of really stupid questions, a lot of stupid comments.
And by stupid, I mean, actually stupid. Like if you're not putting in the work to grow your book of business, if you're just hawking on price and you're asking the same questions about where do I get leads from? Figure it out.
Google insurance leads. You'll see a thousand different companies that'll sell them to you.
Try them all. The ones that work, keep the ones that don't get rid of them.
Join one of these, join Nick Ayers made you look thing. Try YouTube videos, you know, join Frank Menezes thing.
Try Facebook videos, you know, hire Austin Moorhead to build automations for you. I mean, like, I just don't understand this mentality where people just show up, don't really work that hard and go, how come no one's giving me the answer? And it's like, because you don't deserve the answer.
Jeff Roy deserves every answer that he gets, every answer he gets because he works his frigging ass off. And every person who comes to him and every carrier that asks him for his advice, he earned it because he works hard.
And I don't even deserve the conversations that he has and I think and what I mean you know what I mean I'm not just being overly humble I mean this dude has put in 31 years of hard work to figure out how to get 900 leads in a month and to not be happy with that right like I can do more and it's that mentality that is separating I do see, and it would probably always been this way, but a clear separation between these agency owners and agents that act so helpless. Help is so available today if you are willing to reach out and do a little bit of the work.
It's so available.

It's more available than it's ever been.

But I just feel like, I mean, and again, I said this to you before.

It's just, you know, I say this to my kids when they play with other kids.

Form a hierarchy and operate in that ecosystem.

Understand where your place is.

If you're unhappy with your place, push your way up the hierarchy.

That's the way the world works.

There's another time in human history for people to figure things out, get the help, whatever. But you have to invest in yourself, and you can't be static, right? You have to keep reinvesting.
And that's education. That's learning.
That's failure. It's launching.
It's all that kind of stuff, right? And these people that complain all the time, you know, I like people. If you generally have a problem, that's great.
But let's say when you're, hey, I've got a problem. I see somebody complaining, I want to make sure they have a solution.
Because if you don't have a solution, at least an idea of how you would fix it, you're bitching. At that point, when people start complaining about stuff, nothing worse than learned helplessness, where people go, oh, I can't believe this carrier did that.
Well, what are two things you can do? And nine times out of 10, they're like, well, I can do this and this. Well, great.
Why don't you do them? You know, most, a lot of people have the answer, but they just need that coaching or they get into a state where, you know, there's a lot of things going on and they get paralysis by analysis. They're not sure what to do and they just don't want to take action.
And that's exactly when you have to take action is when you don't want to. And you backed into a corner you know and he said the industry can beat you up and it's you have to make sure that you're gonna have your days where you go home and your doubt days everybody in any business as their doubt days like what am i doing in this business but then you go you know tomorrow's gonna be a good day dust it off let's go on positive you know my family's still healthy I'm still know, I can figure things out.
It's not the end of the world, right? So that's what keeps you going. Yeah.
Yeah, so anyway, that's the long answer to the podcast. Yeah.
No, as I said, and again, we're doing it. We're kind of excited to get it going.
And, you know, whether I'm sure my friends in the U.S. can access it, we'll put it out there.
I think the topics we're talking about, huge value both sides of the border. Just like it's funny, I just feel like Canada, U.S., there really isn't much difference.
The company names are different. Some of your coverage terms are the same, but worded a little bit different.
But at the end of the day, it's still the same, right? Yeah. Same industry, same challenges.
Like connectivity is a huge problem in the U.S. Yeah, U.S.
isn't any further ahead than Canada on really anything. We're all kind of on the same right same industry same challenges like connectivity is a huge problem in the u.s yeah u.s isn't any further ahead than canada on really anything we're all kind of on the same levels uh i used to think the u.s was so far ahead oh my god i hope we catch up to them and then when i start hanging out down there i'm like wow it's the same we have all the same problems so that's good we can we can insert ourselves solve them together doesn't matter where you live it's how you think how you act who you know you do.
And a lot of people just aren't doing a lot of new things, right? What's that saying? There's no such thing as old news, just old things happening to new people, right? Yeah. Well, dude, I didn't expect this to be a group show.
I'm incredibly happy that it was a group show. I appreciate both of you so Jack I appreciate you again for now you're going to be in two podcasts which is amazing Jack you're the man I appreciate you coming on and Jeff and just sharing I think you know that I think the world of you I think it's why in 2018, you let off Elevate, you know, just blowing people away.
Just, just, I mean, I still have people that will reference your, your presentation at that conference. Like there are still people that will come up to me or, or, you know, Hey, do you remember, you know, Jeff, what he said and just it, you know, Your impact on this industry has been, I think, in probably the most humble way, so widespread.
There's no way that I think you even realize how often your name is fluttered in conversations about things you've said or done and how many people aspire to be at the place that you are. So I appreciate sharing your time and everything that you do you're very humble man and i'm just jeffroy from a small town in canada trying to help out and uh you know what not 2018 i look back to cleveland i kind of felt like that was the pinnacle of the new movement the vibe in there just it was awesome like that the elevate first two three years of it was great it was just a move.
It just kind of captured the moment. And now we're kind of in a different state.
I'm not sure what that state is. I'm trying to put a name on it.
You and I were chatting about that. Where are we at now? It just kind of felt like all the new gadgets have been flushed out, all the shiny stuff.
Everybody came out. Everybody shared and done it.
And now we're into more complicated stuff that's maybe less sexy, but like, you know, I'm doing client journeys and all the content. That's not super sexy when it's all done and working.
Maybe that's a conversation, but you know, it's just so much more work to do something to talk about. And I just, you know, I feel like there's so much more we need to do at Excalibur to do something that's worthy of talking to people about, like, you know, I did a bunch of stuff and I'll be be honest I didn't think it was anything different than what everybody else did when I had to go on the stage for Nicholas Ayers and Dave Jackson in 2017 in Florida to 450 people I didn't know from a hole in the ground except from a track group and that was I gotta say that was scary because I had to go out there and I'm wearing a hockey jersey and either it's either I've completely this is completely garbage and I'm gonna get booed off the stage or it's going to resonate and it's luckily resonated.
And, uh, you know, I'm just happy to be part of the conversation. I'm happy to have some respect in the U S and have some great friends.
And, uh, you know, I'm just very fortunate. And I'm fortunate to meet some of the greatest people in the world and the insurance business.
So I just want to thank you, Ryan, for everything you've done and give me all the opportunities. And Jack, you know, I think last time I saw you, was it in North Carolina? Yeah.
Yeah. I was down in North Carolina with, with Aubie Knight, who I think is one of the, the real heroes and leaders in the industry.
I'm a huge Aubie Knight fan. Yeah, me too.
Great. We have, we have Colin Simpson in Canada that leads the IBO.
He's very solid. Like I think him and Aubie need to get to know each other really well because they're both two guys doing some great things that put the agent and broker first.
And that's good because we need more people putting us first. And I always say this to everybody, play for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name in the back.
So if we can block a little bit of time to help everybody and the rising tide floats all boats do that, we need more agents to share and contribute and help out. And if we do that, we'll make this the best channel.
And if we don't, we continue to not share or try and one up and beat people. You know, eventually we're going to collectively get beat by somebody smarter, bigger, and better access to data.
So I used to be worried about banks and insurance. Now I'm worried about Amazon and the big Uber big people that come in.
They actually get the proposition right. Like Lemonade, their IPO went pretty well, doubled in price.
I'm not sure if it's valid, but are they going to be the Amazon of insurance? We'll wait and see, right? Should we be investing some of our money into it right now? I'm starting to think I should have now, but it's hard to say, right? But anyway, great conversation. Computer bots certainly are.
The day trading bots are investing their money in it. Yeah, for sure.
Before we go, I want to say, I just want to jump on your shoulders on Aubie. Because what I love about Aubie, and I think we have to stand behind guys like Aubie who are willing to take flack.
What stands out the most to me about Aubie as a association leader or leader in general in this industry is that he's willing to stand up for agents and take the flack so that we can do our jobs, so that agents can do their jobs. And I think there's a lot of people in Aubie's position or positions like Aubie's who maybe, and I'm not saying they're bad people, but they're not as willing to do that.
And Aubie is one of the few people that are. And I think, you know, Marit Peters, another one down in Texas, Jeff Smith in Ohio.
Matt Banaszewski in Wisconsin. Like, these are the individuals who really, they take a lot of heat in pressing agent issues.
And I think, you know, we need to support them as much as we can. You talk about the insurance guys at the tip of the spear, right? Who's one of the insurance guys always at the tip of the spear, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Awesome, guys.

Thanks very much.

I really appreciate it. Thank you.

I appreciate it, guys.

I appreciate your time.

Be good.

Be safe.

And I'll catch you on the flip.

Later, fellas.

Hit on record.

Hit on record. Thank you.
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