RHS 038 - Why David Carothers is Building an Army of Middle-Market Producers

Top reasons data nerds want to move to Ohio.

High paying careers for business researchers,

analysts, project managers, and more.

So many jobs, you can take your pick.

What else does the data say?

How about a bigger backyard,

a shorter commute,

and a paycheck that goes further?

So crunch the numbers

and our world famous pickles.

It all adds up.

The career you want and a life you'll love.

Have it all in the heart of it all. Dive into the data at callohiohome.com.
I need directions for paying down debt. Starting route, apply for a SoFi personal loan and consolidate your debt into one fixed payment.
Turn right into a positive outlook and get $5,000 to $100,000 as soon as the same day you sign with no fees

required.

Got it.

You could get out of high interest credit card debt with a SoFi personal loan.

View your rate at SoFi.com slash debt in 60 seconds with no impact to your credit score.

Loans originated by SoFi Bank and A.

Member FDIC.

Terms and conditions at SoFi.com slash debt.

NMLS 696891. Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast.
It's been about five weeks since I produced my last episode. That was the Matt and Amoli episode, which was tremendous.
And if you haven't listened to that, I encourage you to go back and do so. Today we have David Carruthers.
And part of the reason why I have not been producing podcasts is that I have been grinding, getting Rogue Risk, my insurance agency up off the ground, and things have been going okay. They've been going okay.

We're surviving.

We're writing politics. risk my insurance agency up off the ground and things have been going okay.
They've been going

okay. We're surviving.
We're writing policies. I think we're doing so with an authority and a confidence that I probably wouldn't have if it wasn't for David Carruthers, if it wasn't for having someone like David as a mentor to call on, you know, day in, day out, you know, Facebook messaging him at 530 in the morning, different questions that I have and ideas and working through things that I'm struggling with.
And he's really helped me get to a place where, you know, we're writing business and we're writing accounts that are maybe not

necessarily middle market yet, but certainly way bigger than things that I was consistently writing even back in my Murray Group days when I was eight years straight of writing business. So I think he's helped me jump the line and it is absolutely, positively my great pleasure to bring him and some of his thoughts to you today.
With that, guys, I just appreciate the hell out of you and sticking with this podcast. And I know there's been starts and stops and, you know, because it kind of flows along with my life.
And if you enjoy this show, all I ask is, you know, if you can tell a friend or leave a rating and review, or if you're not subscribed yet, just head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe. It helps more people listen to this show, more people hear the stories that we tell here on this podcast.
And I know you have a lot of choices in what you put in your earbuds, and I'm just very honored that it would be my podcast. So with that, let's get on to David.
All right, man. Well, thanks for coming on the show, dude.
I appreciate you taking some time out now that you're killing commercial or teaching people how to kill commercial. I'm sure your days are a little more filled than they were before when you were just kind of lounging around the pool down there yeah back when I was four it's crazy man um yeah it's been good it's kind of interesting because with all of the stuff that we've had going on you know killing commercial definitely has taken off it takes up a of time, but the actual writing of business has not slowed down.

Our April was better than last year.

And that's just crazy to me

because we're not really,

you don't feel it, right?

You don't feel it as much

when you're not out calling on people in person

and knocking on doors

and doing all the things you have to do to have meetings

and get business in the door. And it's essentially just coming into you and you're doing everything virtually.
It doesn't feel like you're writing as much as you are. And then when I get to the end of the month and I start running my numbers, I'm like, holy cow, like this has been a very quiet chunk of revenue that we've written.
And I'm not complaining about that at all. Yeah.
Especially in considering just how crazy now I know you guys like COVID to you guys hasn't been as much of an issue as it has been up here and other parts of the country. But you know, I think at least the headlines and stuff make it seem like the world is on fire, but in, in, in many regards, it's still cruising on.
And, you know, I think I think a lot of people made the mistake of really throwing the brakes on too hard when COVID hit. And, you know, it's it's been interesting to see those who have kind of pushed through and and the fact that if anything, they're they're way ahead now.
You know, it's interesting because you would think that Florida would have really been hit hard with like shutdowns and things like that. And we have been to a certain degree, but all of it has more to do with tourism and hospitality and nothing else in business.
But when you contemplate how many aging people we have down here that have come down here to retire, the amount of assisted living facilities and all of that, I would be concerned that we would be the epicenter of all of this because there's such a large concentration and it just hasn't been the case. I think by and large, the majority of the people here have used their head.
We've had some government intervention that's required things to shut down. I feel like an absolute sloth right now because Orange Theory hasn't been open for a month and a half and it's going to be open next Friday, June 5th.
And the second that I get in there, they're probably going to have a defibrillator on standby for me. But aside from that, it really has been business as usual.
And even the hospitality stuff, I don't really think they've obviously taken some level of a hit, but a lot of people have stepped out and supported those places too with takeout or uber eats or or however else so it's it's it's not been as bad as what i mean you guys have had it horrible in new york for sure yeah yeah they just uh you know i think i think you know a huge takeaway for me from this experience has been, besides learning all the ins and outs of starting an agency and really a functioning business and all that, has been the resiliency and then the counter to that, the lack of resiliency that different individuals have. how do you how to talk people through you know just the wide scope of perspectives and how do you navigate that and how do you help people who are in both camps those are like screw it let's just plow through you know live free or die you know come take my guns you know from my from my dead hands and then people who, you know, they're only willing to talk to you through three layers of plexiglass and a breathing tube.
And, you know, I think it's, it's, it's really been, at least up here, it's, it's a it's in your face every day, all day. And I think the one thing that I've taken away and Killing Commercial has been absolutely

tremendous for that just the community of guys has been just just it's like just keep going just keep showing up keep going you know regardless of how you feel it's like it's like the working out thing man like sometimes your best days are the days that you did not want to get up and prospect you didn't want to get up and email people and and that pays tremendous dividends. Yeah.
My perspective has been a couple of things. To your point about people reacting in different ways, it reminds me of when I got into the industry.
I had just come out of retail and I was working with a recruiter that was specific to the insurance industry. And I went and did a personality test and the results of the personality test came back.
And she's, the lady calls me and she's like, look, you know, I'm just going to be honest with you. Your results didn't come back very good.
And I'm like, how do you fail a personality test? Like, what does that mean? Does it mean I have zero personality? You know, I just need to go jump off a bridge now. What's the story the story she goes no just the way that these companies hire is they're looking for people who fit in a certain box and she said I've honestly never seen somebody come through for an insurance producer's role that has literally been equal in all four quadrants like the way that they did it I was within like one or two points in each of the four areas that they tested.
And she said, you know, they're really looking for people to be drivers. You need to be heavily weighted over there.
I said, you know what, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. I would think that if you're that equally weighted, it would be leading people to see that you can relate to anyone at any time.
And you can basically be a chameleon and adapt to your environment. And I said, that has helped me in my career thus far.
And I think it'll ultimately help me be successful in this industry. And, you know, it was interesting.
I just, I never really thought about it that way. And the other thing is, when I took the personality test, I answered it honestly.
I didn't try and game the system. You know, I actually, I'm smart enough that I would have known that if I needed to be a driver, I could have answered all the questions they were asking me so that it would skew it that way.
I just answered everything honestly. And, you know, as I look back now, 15 plus years later, I think that that's helped me way more than it's hurt me because I look at my book of business and it is like literally a melting pot, you know, personalities, you know, ethnicities, types of business and all of that.
And I have a very good relationship with each one of them because of the way that I'm wired, I guess, more than anything else. But to your point regarding the community and everything else, you know, I joke about it all the time, you know, cause people ask me, you know, they ask me, Hey, how's Ryan doing? I know you're talking to him.
I know you're working with him. Everybody's watching Hanley.
They want to see if he's going to succeed or if he's going to fall on his face, you know, the whole insurance community's watching to see what happens. And I said, well, two things, number one, I've got his back.
So if he fails, that means I failed him and that's just not going to happen. So I'm not even worried about it.
And I said, but the other thing is, you know, a lot of people are probably sitting here thinking to themselves, this clown just opened an agency at the exact wrong time to open an agency. And I said, I would agree with you if it was anybody other than Hanley.
Like this is actually the perfect time for Hanley to start his agency because he can't go out and get distracted by all of the other crap that you get distracted by when you're out starting to launch your agency. He's been forced to sit there in isolation for all practical purposes and really think through decisions to the point that he makes pragmatic decisions instead of decisions on the fly.
He's been forced into his strength of creating and distributing content because that's really one of the only things he can do right now. And while everybody else is watching to see what's going to happen, all they're watching is the dude's building a rock-solid foundation for what he's going to build his empire on going forward, and I believe that wholeheartedly.
Yeah. Also, fuck all those people.
So that's the other thing. I – yeah, you know, it's been, it's been so, the whole experience has been wild.
It has definitely been every bit the challenge, both from a technical, tactical standpoint and an emotional standpoint. I think that's almost the harder part.
I mean, you know, you talk about the technology and, you know, yeah, I've got a firsthand glimpse at what agency owners have been bitching about, you know, forever about how shitty most insurance technology is. And it is, it's, it's poor.
But it, it's not a handcuff. You know, what I've learned is, yes, is this, is this a nice, easy, dynamic piece of software to use if it's dealing with insurance most likely not however it is in no way a handcuff to doing business I mean there's anyone who says oh the insurance is shitty and that's why I'm struggling is lying you're struggling because you're not doing what you need to do so I I've I've confirmed in my mind everything that I've heard for so long, but, but the, the roadblocks really just come down to, you know, do you do it? Do you show it? Do you, you know, do you like, like, you know, some of the stuff in the thing we talk about the 12 month solicitation calendar, right? Do you create it and put people in it and make it your own and, and, and work it? Or do you just keep watching the

videos over and over again and go, Oh, that'd be a cool thing to do. Um, and I think a lot of, uh, you know, it's, it's like every other business it's whether, you know, for me, it's the speaking business or, um, or, you know, the marketing business, you know, whatever it's, do you show up and do the work or do you not? And, um, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, there's nothing special about my game.
I'm not, I'm not even the best content creator. Like literally my superpower is only that I am so freaking dumb or, or, or rock headed that I just keep showing up.
I mean, that's really all that it is. That's 90% of the battle, man.
And I mean, that's, that's the thing. I think that people don't realize fundamentally, our industry has not changed in a hundred years.
It's not going to change fundamentally in another hundred. And what I mean by that is, yeah, policies will probably change.
New software products are going to come out. You know, perhaps personal lines and small commercial ends up becoming even more commoditized and automated and you're competing with the likes of Google and Amazon.
But at the end of the day, it still means you have to call on a certain number of people to get a certain number of people to meet with you, let you present and all of those things. And there's never gonna be a magic wand

that removes all of that, right?

So I can give you the greatest platform in the world.

I can teach you the way that I have been successful

in middle market, how I research accounts,

all of the things that we do.

But at the end of the day,

if all you do is watch the video

or you listen to the podcast or you read a blog post and you don't take action, then all you've done is watch a video, listen to a podcast or read a blog post. That's it.
And, you know, that's the thing that just frustrates me more than anything else about this industry. But it's also the thing that I love the most about this industry because I know that I take action and anybody who does is ultimately going to be much more successful than the average person in the industry.
We're an industry full of people who do what they need to do to get by. That's it.
And that's, you know, that's part of the problem. You can make a very comfortable living just doing what you need to do to get by.
So if you want to be an average player, come on into the insurance industry. We have low barriers of entry and above average income.
If all you want to do show up. Yeah.
The good news about that is, and I think this is where the content game comes in. And, um, you know, one of the things about, about killing commercial that, that's been reassuring to me is, you know, like when I first started talking to you, I knew, um, you know, and for anyone that's listening, like we, we haven't really known each other that long, but we, we have become, you know, we talk quite often, um, whether that's because you feel obligated to or not, I'll take it either way.
Um, well, it's funny, man, because if I don't hear from you for like a day, I feel like, all right, I got to talk Hanley off the ledge. Something's going on.
I haven't heard from him yet and asked me any questions today. Hadn't really been active on social media.
Something's going on. Let's go get his head cleared out and get him back focused.
Well, you know, the good news is lately I've been responding to you. Hey, the problem is I got stuff coming in.
I'm trying to trying to put some premium on the books. I, um, you know, it's, it's, it has been, it's been interesting, you know, so one of the things about killing commercial that, that I loved, uh, or that was reassuring to me when I first got there was, you know, I didn't really know what to expect.
And I'm assuming these are like hardcore sales tactics, you know, get in and wedge in, you know, I didn't really know what to expect. And I'm assuming these are like hardcore, um,

sales tactics, you know, get in and wedge in, you know, uh, question answering sequence. And, um, so much of it is, is, uh, doing business the right way.
It's, it's a, it's, it's so much more. I mean, uh, even I just put, I literally just finished the 12 month solicitation calendar today.
This morning, I finished the last email for the sequence. I'm just getting it set up and I already have people going, but you know, whatever, just I got the last email set up and you know, in it, it's, you know, I think you said, you You say something like 80% of agents focus on 20% of what matters, which is price.
And at, you know, in your case, in the case of the years, it's Florida Risk Partners, we focus on the 80% of what matters that actually determines the 20% of its price. I'm kind of butchering the way you say it, but the idea is so much of what we do in this industry is just, let me call your price.
Let me call your price. Let me call your price.
And if I've learned, if anything has been reassuring to me, being part of Killing Commercial in general, and then just it matching up with my philosophy, which is doing what's right by people. That was, that was very, for me, it made me feel like I was, I had found my tribe or whatever, because I would never be, I can never be someone who just quotes on price, tries to jack around.
You know, we were just, I was just bitching about someone who was jacking around with coverage to screw someone's rate up uh before and like i can never be that person like it's just not in me so that has been so reassuring to surround myself with a group of people who feel that same way and are doing it at scale well and the thing the thing is the average insurance agent is an insurance agent right like? Like that's what they do. They're insurance salespeople.
Their compensation is derived from the sale of a product. And they, for all practical purposes, there's a large subset of agents out there that are very successful selling a product.
That's it. That's the name of the game.
The issue is we will always beat those people. Always.
There's never a time where they're going to come in with a product-focused approach and win. If they do, it's because we've done a horrible job of qualifying who we're talking to as a buyer because they never would have fit our philosophy to begin with.
And so it just, it doesn't happen. And what I mean by that, and to sort of clean up a little bit of what you were talking about, is if you look at the total cost of risk calculation, not from a number standpoint, but just the sub parts of it, there are five sub parts of total cost of risk.
Insurance premium is one of them, right? And so if you look at it from that perspective where insurance premium is one of five, the way I explain it is it's 20% of the formula, right? So it's 20% of the total cost of risk formula or what comprises total cost of risk. And what agents do is they focus on price and insurance premium is the only thing that's really price driven.
And they focus on beating that down. And the issue you have is there's a floor.
You can only negotiate price so low. If you're not focusing on any of the other stuff or worrying about cleaning up any of the other things associated with total cost of risk, you're really doing your client or prospect, for that matter, a disservice.
because disservice. Because you were on one of the live call that we did last week where I just basically went off on a tirade about indirect costs.
Well, indirect costs are a huge part of a client's total cost of risk. Agents don't talk about that.
And when you look at where their claims are, especially if you're like inside of a guaranteed cost type program, the client doesn't feel that. You know, if you're paying guaranteed cost for workers' compensation, for example, and you have $500,000 in claims, you don't feel that.
The carrier pays those claims because you're on a guaranteed cost program. You're going to feel it when your mod comes out in a year or two, and you're going to feel it through increased premiums then.
But for all practical purposes, even then, it's just going to be a small subset of what was actually paid out that affects your increase in premium. But if you look at the things like the indirect costs that are associated with those claims, those are hard dollars leaving a company's financial statements.
And agents don't talk about that. They don't understand it.
They can't quantify it. It's very difficult because the average business owner has never heard somebody talk to them like that before.
They've never had somebody explain it. And so as long as you can be articulate in how you present that message to a prospect and give them concrete examples of things that would contribute to indirect costs of claims, you're going to blow their mind.
Because in that scenario that I just said, if a client's got $500,000 in claims, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, indirect costs on that are anywhere between two and 20 times. Well, indirect costs aren't getting eaten by the insurance carrier.
They're coming directly from their financial statements. So when you go in and tell a business that had $500,000 in claims, they had a million dollars in direct costs, it's a tough pill to swallow.
And they don't believe it until you start pointing out all of the different things. And then eventually they connect the dots.
That's where agents missed the boat, in my opinion, more than anything else. They focus on a product.
They don't focus on solving problems. And if anybody's ever heard me speak, I say the same thing over and over and over again.
And, you know, that's the other thing that's frustrating about this industry. I can stand on a mountaintop and yell it.
And I know that 95% of the people out there are just going to keep doing things the way they always do. I call them lemmings because that's what they are.
They're all jumping off the side of the cliff. You know, I, uh, so I have been preaching content marketing for 12 years in the insurance industry.
Now changed my life as an agent. It took me from being, I couldn't me as a dropping off business cards and strip malls was not a value provider, me creating content, educating people on coverage on how people should be you served, all the things that I did.
I'm actually in the Murray group today when I'm recording this. All the things that I did when I was here, it changed my life.
I now have people calling me who had already developed at least a small appreciation for a different way of doing business. And I've told that story for 10 years on stages and still,

still nobody is doing it. And then, you know, and,

and I just get this pushback. I don't have time.
I don't have this. And, you know,

I, I can see how it's easy to make that excuse. I can, you know,

now that I'm actually doing all the fun,

every single function that exists in an agency, I can see how it's easy to make that excuse. I can, you know, now that I'm actually doing all the fun, every single function that exists in an agency, I can see how it's easy to make that excuse.
And then, you know, but I get up at 5am in the morning, so I can do it. But people don't want to do that.
So it's like, I am glad there's a certain part of me. And I don't mean to just I don't want this to just be hammering on other agents, because there are so many very good agents as well.
But I guess my things that I've learned very quickly are, you know, if you scattershot the industries that you work in, if you don't pick a couple industries and go after them, you just can't, you can't be successful, right? It's too hard to learn, you know, it's too hard to learn funeral homes versus cabinet makers versus retail business versus LROs versus home and auto. It's just, it's impossible to be a value provider if you have that many different classes that you're working with.
I mean, not impossible, but, but very difficult. And the other part is, and this is something that I'm really interested to talk to you about too, is like going deep with your underwriters.
Like we had a conversation inside of that same Zoom last week that you did for a lot or live, whatever Facebook live it was, about going deep with your underwriters. Like how often do you call your under? I literally email my Cincinnati and Hanover underwriters just about every day.
If I'm not on the phone with them every week, something's wrong, but I'm certainly emailing them questions about accounts, questions about programs, you know, whatever needs to get asked. And it feels like these are some of these things, we just gloss them.
We don't ever actually take the time to go deep on these things. And I don't know how you can do business without these conversations.
Like, I don't know how you can do business without these conversations. No, I mean, listen, man, there's an art to being really good in this industry too, right? And I'm a firm believer.
I have to have a bunch of handlers. Like I'm all over the place.
My life is far from perfect. Like professionally, personally, it's a freaking train wreck man it is

like on the weekends our house is a free-for-all and you know my professional life would be the same way if I didn't have people that were you know helping me stay on track and I just I have to schedule everything like my calendar I live by it if it doesn't make it to my calendar there's a 100% chance I'm going to miss the meeting.

Like I had, I had one last week where I was walking out the door to go to a meeting that I had booked on my calendar. And apparently I had verbally agreed to meet with another guy at the same time.
And he's pulling into the office as I'm walking out to the other meeting. I'm like, crap, here we go again.
Content marketing is the same way. And you and I haven't had this conversation because your content game is strong.
There's no reason for us to have it. But anybody else, you know, that even comes into killing, that's one of the first things I explained to them.
You know, you've got to have, you've got to make time for it, right? And this is where I tell them, you have to practice what I'm telling you and don't go to my website right now and look because my blog game is weak on Florida Risk. We've been really, really busy, but that changed two months ago.
And so for us, when everything with COVID hit, I just basically stepped back and said, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to focus on everything we needed to do from a content standpoint now, because I want to be running on the street.
So we looked at our 12 months. We said, if we were going to have X number of blog posts, we need to get all of this done over the course of the next month.
And then that turned into two months. And here we are like two, two and a half months in, and we're continuing to do it.
And the way I did it was I basically challenged my producers to find areas where they needed to learn, where they thought they were weak or where they thought they wanted to specialize. And so the deal was real simple.
Every single day during the work week by close of business, they are required to submit a blog post to me in a Word document. And I've been sitting here just accruing these for the last couple of months.
And slowly but surely, I'm starting to get them into Grammarly, tighten them up, get them ready to go out. But we have so much content in our arsenal right now that we're going to be pushing out, you know, and on every other day basis going forward, it's only going to help.
And I think that agents don't realize that we, you know, they, they realize we're in a digital age, but if I were to give them any advice at all on, on things that could help them, the content piece is one. And the other piece is making sure they're tight on their LinkedIn profile and their LinkedIn profiles completely built out.
Because what I do know is this, anybody that's planning on meeting you in this day and age is going to do two things. Most likely it's the two things I do.
Every time I Google somebody and I go to LinkedIn and I look at their profile to see what I can learn, who we have in common that are connections and all of that. And if you don't think that the prospect you're calling on are doing research on social media, you're kidding yourselves because they are.
And if you've got a garbage profile that's got a gray headshot, grayed out icon for a headshot and doesn't have work history or any accolades or anything, you're dead in the water. They're not even going to waste their time.
Yeah. Everyone keeps talking about how video proposals and Zoom calls are the future of selling insurance.
Maybe three years ago. I haven't sold a single policy via Zoom or video proposal.
And the reason is, is because if you go to roguerisk.com, you cannot hit a page on my site that doesn't have a video. I don't publish a page that doesn't also have a video attached to it.
And the reason I do that is because if you've seen me on video, you don't need to do a zoom call. Now, you know what I mean? I can, and what, what not, and not saying I'm anti-Zoom because I'm not, but you know what Zoom is? Zoom is a whole nother layer of trying to get someone to connect and a whole 15 minutes of, oh, my internet's bad and now it's choppy versus here, I'm going to email you this PDF, pull it up on your screen and we're going to talk through it on the phone.
Or I sold a home and auto belly to belly yesterday. It was fucking amazing to shake someone's hand again and talk to them across their kitchen table.
And the guy lived in my neighborhood, but like, you know, and you can COVID shame me all you want, but like, you know, I had a conversation in person with another human answered his questions and it was, it was amazing. I mean, I love to sell insurance that way.
And I just think that if you do the things like have a LinkedIn profile that's well done and you have video and you have content and you have images on your website, some of these extra layers that in my mind almost, they just add more things for people to think about. if I'm pitching someone or walking someone through an insurance program, I do not want them also to be thinking about the Zoom connection, or what do I look like on camera? Or do I sound good? Or does my backdrop have a book that says something about me that I don't want this person to know? And these are all the things that are going through people's head.
And I just want them to be focused on the work. And so I haven't pushed that stuff at all.
And maybe I'm wrong for that, but that's where I've been at. No, I mean, we haven't really done much with Zoom outside of webinars.
The stuff that we've done live has been more educational stuff. Yeah.
Educational stuff is different for sure. Yeah.
But I'm a big believer in video proposals in terms of the recorded ones, like the ones we have, you know, on advisory website. Yeah.
Because what I found is that you're non-intrusive at that point, right? It's no, it's really no different than sending them an email with the PDF, but you actually remove that layer of having to have the phone call for you to explain it because you're doing a voiceover and walking them through it and then they can watch it on their time. And it's crazy because I think we're so forced, again, it goes back to selling a product and not solving a problem.
One of the biggest issues I see with newer producers when they come in from other industries is they're walking in and boom, boom, boom. They're just constantly, they're basically have diagnosed all of the issues for this person before they've ever talked to them.
And so they know, you know, oh, well, what we need to do is we need to get you this coverage or that coverage or whatever else, instead of, you know, taking it from a different perspective and asking the open-ended question, hey, I noticed through the review that you didn't send over a director's and officer's policy. Is that something that just got left out or have you not contemplated that in the past? And then let them tell you why it wasn't there.
Don't just assume that it's not. Maybe they have been educated and chose not to buy it or whatever else.
You end up doing yourself a disservice. So I'm a huge fan of people doing a ton of research before they go in, but then not allowing that research to cloud how they approach the meeting, right? You don't, you can't go in, just assume everything that you've read online or that you've researched is a hundred percent accurate.
Use it to formulate your questions, use it to qualify the answers that you get back and then redirect to validate either what

you found was right or wasn't right and then move on from it. But, you know, with quote vids,

the reason for me, it was a mental block, right? I'm used to doing exactly what you said. I want

to go in and put on a suit and tie, shake somebody's hand, look them in the eye, thank

them for the business. And for me, I just had a hard time doing that because with quote vids,

Thank you. somebody's hand, look them in the eye, thank them for the business.
And for me, I just had a hard time doing that because with the quote vids, because you're not doing that, right? You're not going in and doing the things we've been brought up doing. And so once I got it mentally through my head that you have to meet people with information where they want to receive it, not where you think they should receive it, then it was done.
I just made up my mind. We're doing quote-fits going forward.
I have never in the entire existence that we have had a personal lines division done a single quote presentation or anything that wasn't video. In the entire time I've had my personal lines division, we never meet these people in person.
They never come to my office. We don't go to their place.
They are 100% of the time done in video quotes. And we get massive feedback from people who love it, right? They love the fact that they get an email with a link.
We push the same message out to text with the link. They can click on it.
They use their email to log in and it's done.

They love that, man. It's an ease of doing business.
And, you know, that's why it's not been hard for us to pivot with COVID because we already had, I mean, like I said, QuoteFids was the future three years ago. It's not the future anymore.
It's now. And actually, if you're not doing it, you're already too late.
Yeah. I've had so many people ask me, oh, you know, should I use this vendor or advisory evolved? And I'm like, advisory evolved.
I'm like, and then they're like, wow, you know, and I'm like, quote vids, advisory evolved. Just don't make this decision hard for yourself.
Like, just put this one on the rack and move forward. Like you've got that.
Like that's, that, that technology is going to help you. Yeah.
I, you know, I'm, I am,

I, another thing that I found it.

So it's been so interesting for me coming back into this and I've been so busy. I haven't been able to do a lot of podcasts,

so I haven't talked about it as much, but like things that I've learned about

myself, like I definitely,

I definitely love when I'm selling personal for some reason, I love sitting across the kitchen table from someone. I just do.
Now, I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's because 90% of the policies that I sold when I was with the Murray group were across someone's kitchen table.
I used to stack seven, eight, 15, nine 30 appointments. And I would drive to homes throughout the capital, throughout the region.
And I would sell home and autos at people's houses. And did you have a background in Kirby vacuum cleaners prior? Oh, dude, I can tell you where to take a dump in the capital region.
I knew all the cleanest bathrooms. I knew everything.
It was the best. I my buddies would text me like, hey, I'm in I'm out in burnt hills.
Like I'm hung up. Like, where's the best place? I'm like, Oh, go down route 50.
And there's this Duncan, not the first Duncan, the second Duncan. That's the clean one.
Um, but you know, and, and breaking some of those habits, like, um, you know, I, I've also found like, I, but I agree with you, your point of go, this guy doesn't have a computer or email. So this guy wanted me to come and sit at his house.
Exactly. Yeah.
I think it plays both ways, man. My whole point is you got to meet people where they want to be at.
That is the key. That is absolutely the key.
Cause I got a guy who I'm actually quoting. I was quoting right before we jumped on this call who works for Facebook.
He lives down on Long Island.

One, I can't go there. That's a four hour drive for me.
And two, he doesn't want, you know what I mean? He doesn't want me to spend all that time on the phone with him. He's a busy dude.
He's got a family. Like he's going to get a quote vid.
Absolutely. You know what I mean? I'll finish it up, package it up, quote vid it, boom, send it to him.
He's going to be happy as hell. So, you know, it, I think the key is, is being like, uh, you know, what does Bruce Lee be like water? You know what I mean? Like fill, fill the cup that's in front of you.
Um, and, and, and that's how you get it done. So, uh, all right.
I have a couple of other questions that I want to ask you real quick. What has it been like? So you're, you have this process, you've trained producers

to do this process. What, what, what made you say, like, I want to start teaching people my

process for attack? Like, was there, you had gotten a number of questions, like what, what,

because this is a lot of work for you. mean this is a big you know and and not that

you aren't getting paid I mean obviously it's a it's a paid program to be part of a group but like

you know it's it's not like you probably could have made more if you had taken that same time

and just doubled into selling insurance so like what what got you to start teaching this program

yeah it's interesting man um it's really two reasons the first one is because of how I

Thank you. program? Yeah, it's interesting, man.
It's really two reasons. The first one is because of how I hire people and get people from outside the industry, specifically in production.
I had to get away to get my process like documented video so that when people come in, I can just have them run through the process instead of me repeating it over and over and over again. Because the way that we're working right now, I've got six to eight producers that are going to land in the next 12 to 18 months.
So I was trying to figure out a way to go and get everything into like an e-learning, basically killing commercial the way that it's set up right now. The other thing is, you know, when I was at Innovation in San Diego back in January, I had so many people that had come and listened to me speak, come up and ask, hey, can you consult with my agency? Do you work with producers? And, you, my biggest issue has always been, I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to be the guy that's putting the new course out. It's got the new video deal.
Look, we've got mutual friends that have done this. They've been very, very successful doing it.
It's just, again, everything with me, almost everything is mental. I've got to mentally accept things before I can push forward and do them.
And I basically got to the point where I said, you know what, I've got to do this anyhow, because it's best for my agency. So I might as well do it.
I'm not going to be competing with people all over the country because I have no interest and I have plenty of business where I'm at in my wheelhouse. I'll make it available to other agents across the country because I think that they'll benefit from it.
And so, you know, that's really what it was. You know, the monetization piece is nice.
It's, you know, I probably could do way more than, you know, make a lot more money even doing that just because of the level of personal involvement that I have with everybody when they need it, but it really was to monetize my training program at a rate that was painful, but not punitive. That's what I tell everybody.
Look, you know, it's got to be painful enough that only serious agencies are in. And you've seen behind the curtain, so you get it, right? The real angle of killing commercial really has nothing to do with training people how to sell.
I mean, that's a component of it, but it's building the foundation of it. The real glue for killing is the social community that we're in the process of getting user engagement and having agents from all over the country that have geographic territories that are exclusive to them when they get into the program, being able to collaborate.
And again, when I have those calls with people that want to get into the program, I tell them, you know, this is all about collaboration without competition. And we have that, you know, that's something special that's difficult to build, but it's special and it's powerful.
And so, you know, my end game and what I really see from it is taking the power of the community that we're building. Yes, I need these people to understand how to sell middle market because they have to be effective at doing that and be able to bring premium on the books.
I need them to understand the process and do it the way that we teach it to be done because I know how much that affects retention and I need them to write profitable business. and so, you know, the real experiment is going to be how powerful does that community become over two years, two to three years down the road, we've got a really rock solid group of people.
We can use that power. We can leverage, leverage vendor pricing.
We can leverage program business with carriers. We can leverage commissions.
We could go to carriers and look to see if we could put together a master contract with sub agencies for everybody that does not have direct appointments right now and get better commission and profit sharing that way. And, you know, my end game has always been, let's go launch a captive.
You know, let's take an aggregated amount of premium from the community with critical mass. Everybody who wants to participate can come in and we can create a partnership and launch a captive for all of the business that we're writing.
And I mean, I think that's a huge deal and will build significant wealth for everybody that's involved if it's done right. But I mean, at the surface, yeah, let's go learn how to sell middle market insurance.
Well, here's the first thing I tell everybody. I will always be an agent first.
I will always own my agency because you don't have credibility or you don't have as much credibility as far as I know or I think if you're not. if I hadn't sold a single policy in 10 or 15 years and I'm out coaching agents on how to excel in the middle market today, what credibility do I have? I'm out actually doing what I'm teaching, what I'm telling them to do.
Yeah, I know. And it keeps sometimes you from picking up the frigging phone when I call you.
so that pisses me off. Yeah, every once in a while, man.

Hey, you've got that 530, you got that 530 Facebook message down on lockdown though. So you shouldn't need to call me during the day.
That's right. I get all my, I get all my questions out early when I'm humped over my computer at 5am.
I well, you know, man, I I'm sure that we will do this again. I wanted to, I just wanted to get you back on.
I wanted to get you on the show and just kind of expose you to the audience a little bit and what you have going on and, and, and, you know, and for whatever, you know, at this point, I feel like my, my, uh, my recommendation of something is probably lost weight considering that I'm just a little podunk startup agency owner now and not this big marketing guy. But I have found the work that you do and the philosophy behind Killing Commercial to be exactly what I've needed to be successful.
And though I haven't landed what you would consider a middle market account yet, it has only been eight weeks during COVID. But I will say my confidence, even going after some of the larger small commercial, like some of these $20,000 to $40,000 in premium business accounts, my confidence is way up.
I feel like I'm coming from a position of power, which, you know, the last time I sold, I, you know, I told you this $1,500, $2,000 account, I'd be shaken, you know what I mean? Oh, I hope this guy buys, you know, and I think, um, I, it just, it is really catapulted me forward and given me, like, I just had a conversation with Greg Hogan, uh, who's, who's part of the, who's part of, uh, who's a cold-blooded killer. and he's two and a half hours south of me.
We're talking all things shop, giving him all my secrets. Yeah, my secrets, you know, talking everything we're doing, we're two and a half hours from each other in the same state.
So technically, we could be competitors, but because we're in the group, we trust each other. We know what's going on.
It's all good. We're helping each other grow.
And I do think that Killing is a special community. I'm very honored to be a part of it.

And I think you're doing really good work, man. And I just appreciate the fact that,

you know, I know that it's extra and I think it's good stuff.

Yeah, I'm excited, man. We're in the process of wrapping up the development of the mobile app.
And so once the mobile app comes out, user engagement, we'll go through the roof. You know, it's not lost on me right now that we're web-based and that can be a little bit cumbersome for people that are on the fly.
But once we, once we're wrapped up, that's the one missing component, you know, and I'm pumped to have that come out here in the next problem next month or two. It'll be exciting.
The social aspect of the community is very, very cool. It, you know, I definitely, I'm pumped to have that come out here the next problem next month or two.
It'll be, the social aspect of the community is very, very cool. It, um, you know, I definitely, I'm probably in there two or three times a week, but then the converse, a lot of times I'm connecting with dudes from the thing on Facebook messenger.
And, you know, so I think, uh, that, that part of it is really dynamic. So, all right, man, well, I'll let you go.
I know it's Friday. I, I just wanted to out in front of my audience and just expose people to the idea that you can be new, you can be in the business for a long time.
This idea that you can go out and target middle market businesses and be a true value provider to them.

It is within all of our reach. Like you do, you do, you, I haven't sold a policy or hadn't sold a policy for almost six years.
And, you know, I'm walking around, you know, feeling very confident with a solid idea for the value I can provide. And I know I'm going to make mistakes as I get into it, but, you know, I would not be as confident in my business today if I wasn't part of this community.
So I just wanted to say thank you for that. Awesome, man.
Well, we're happy to have you in there. And I can tell you firsthand, you're in a group with a bunch of alphas, whether they're male or female, they're alphas.
They're not necessarily obnoxiously alpha, but I can assure you they're type A and drivers. And, you know, to that point, just the fact that, you know, we've become fast friends is, has pushed my content game to the next level.
So I do owe you a thank you for that because, you know, whether you realize it or not with all of the stuff that I tell you, just keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing. Part of that selfishly me saying, I need Hanley to keep doing this.
Cause when I see him do it, it's going to force me to do that next video or get out of bed early and do that next blog post because I want to be on that level of content distribution and I'm capable of doing it, but it's just like people who need a personal trainer sometimes, right? Yeah, I know what I need to do to go to the gym. I want the accountability, whether it's formal or informal.
So, you know, thank you for that. That's definitely helped me a lot over the last little bit and just getting some processes dialed in.
Yeah. And don't think I'm just going to seed that to you either.
So just be aware of that. All right, bro.
Well, Hey, I appreciate you everyone. Killingcommercial.com.
Check out Connect with David on LinkedIn you'll find him

real deal Holyfield

absolutely been a pleasure man

and be good

have a great weekend Thank you. So close twice as many deals by this time next week.
Sound impossible? It's not. With the one call close system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call.
This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients in under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast.
Based in behavioral psychology and battle tested, the one callose system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes more than you ever thought possible. If you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning, visit MasterOfTheClose.com.
That's MasterOfTheClose.com. Do it today.
Top reasons your dog wants you to move to Ohio. Amazing dog parks to stretch your legs.
All four of them. Dog-friendly patios.
Even gourmet hot dogs loaded with the good stuff. Bon Appetit.
And Ohio has so many high-paying jobs, you'll be top dog in no time. Jobs in technology, engineering, science, advanced manufacturing, and more.
The career you want and a life you'll love. Have it all in the heart of it all.
Go to callohiohome.com. I need directions for paying down debt.
Starting route, apply for a SoFi personal loan and consolidate your debt into one fixed payment. Turn right into a positive outlook and get $5,000 to $100,000 as soon as the same day you sign

with no fees required.

Got it.

You could get out of high interest credit card debt

with a Silphi personal loan.

View your rate at silphi.com slash debt in 60 seconds

with no impact to your credit score.

Loans originated by Silphi Bank and A.

Member FDIC.

Turns and conditions at silphi.com slash debt.

NMLS 696891.