RHS 034 - Carey Wallace Explains How to Put Agent & Association Data to Work

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everyone Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. My name is Ryan Hanley.
I am your host, as always, and today our guest is Carrie Wallace, someone that I have an incredibly high amount of respect and esteem for and was just excited to get on the podcast and talk through what she's doing today.

And what that means is I met Carrie.

She was the COO of OIA, the Ohio Insurance Agents, the Association for the State of Ohio.

And she's always done an incredible job.

And OIA is a standard bearer for what an association can do and should do for the independent agents that they serve. Now, Carrie has kind of taken that and parlayed it into being the CEO of Intel Agents, an association-driven data initiative, which is taking data from both agents and from the state associations, which they are a part of, and combining all that information to deliver insights and best practices and really just effective data resources that agencies can use to increase their efficiency, their output, and ultimately their valuation.
And Carrie's just a tremendous resource for our industry, and it was such a pleasure to have her on the show, and I'm happy to be able to share her insights with you. Before we get there, though, we got to pay the bills.
We got to talk about my friends at Tarmica. Tarmica is making all your wildest comparative rating dreams come true with their platform.
It's API driven. You're getting real time quotes back from carriers that you can then access directly into those carrier systems.
And you're not dealing with, well, I quoted it this way, but it was really just screen scraping. So now when I actually put the data in, the rate comes back different.
And then you're constantly talking to your prospects about why the rate that you initially gave them isn't the rate that actually gets bound. And Tarmaca is solving that problem.
And the thing that really initially drew me to Tarmaca is that a lot of people that I have tremendous amount of respect for are in the Tarmaca ecosystem. And that is one of the primary signs to me that a piece of technology has a real shot of helping agents because there's just certain people that don't get involved in projects if they don't have the best interest of agents in mind.
And that's what initially drew me there. Then I saw the tech, and now I am days away from having my installation ready of Tarmica, and I just can't wait to get to work with Tarmica and my own agency, Rogue Risk.
So go to T-A-R-M-I-K-A.com, T-A-R-M-I-K-A.com, Tarmica. Check out Tarmica today.
Get a demo. If you like it, use it.
If you don't, whatever. But if you do, and I think you will, I think there's a there there.
So, all right, guys. With that, let's get on to Kerry Wallace on The Ryan Hanley Show.
Let's do this. I would never, ever change those days for anything under the sun.
And honestly, I'm in startup boat here too. So do you ever want to commiserate on the startup life? I am your girl.
Well, I'm going to take you up on that sometime. I, uh, you know, it's been, it's been very, it's been very interesting just, you know, and I've said this on so many podcasts already and I'll probably say it a hundred more times, but like, I, I, I never gave how the insurance technology, like how hard it actually is to piece it all together.
Like I never gave it it's due. I, um, I gave it lip service for sure,

but never actually gave it its due

because it is difficult to piece it all together.

Here's the thing.

It's not just technology.

If you're an independent agent,

you're an entrepreneur,

you got to pick who are the partners you want to have? What's the staff look like? What's the technology look like? What niche am I going to go after? I mean, it's not like anyone says, hey, here's the road to success. Just do these five things and you're going to be fine.
And it looks and feels different in every town, every agency. You know, it's not, hats off, like I love what you're doing, but I love learning about independent agents because they are some of the smartest people and some of the gutsiest people I think I've gotten to spend some time with.
So anyway, I'm super excited for you, Ryan. Oh, well, thanks.
You know, I think the interesting, it really is independent agencies really are unique snowflakes. So up until, you know, maybe a couple years ago, I started to really get a feel for this.
But probably up until I started this process, I did not quite realize how many different ways that you could piece together an agency, all the various decisions you had to make, and most importantly, how each decision played off of each other. You know what I mean? You choose this CRM.
Well, this CRM really only works with these agency management systems, and it doesn't do this thing that you really want. And then, and then even that's way down the pipeline.
Cause what you really want to start with is what kind of agency do you want to be? What kind of clients do you want to be? What do you want your lifestyle to be? And then all the technology drips out of that. But then one of those pieces of technology doesn't work with this thing over here.
I mean, so it's like, it is like all these moving parts that are constantly moving around each other. And, um, I definitely let, there was definitely a week or two where that got to me a little bit where, um, where I let it kind of start to frustrate me.
And, uh, I started to, to like, just be like, man, I, I, this is, this is driving me nuts. and then I just said screw it I'm just gonna start making decisions so once I started doing that things started to figure themselves out and right or wrong I I have a tech stack and I have a target client and I have some some marketing copy and in And in the next week, I'll probably, I shouldn't say probably in the next week, I'll be in market selling policies.
So, uh, that's fantastic. But you're right.
Like, here's the thing. If you actually wait for all the right decisions to come to you, you never make a decision.
That's the problem. So, and they are so interconnected and there's consequences, there's upsides and downsides to every single decision.
But the beauty is you're the entrepreneur, you're the one that gets to do this. And you got to live with some of the decisions and some of them you can remake at some point.
But yeah, you can't, you can't just not make a decision. That's not going to work.
So anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm very excited for you and I'm, I'm very interested as I watch you share the experience for others because I've heard those stories in offices, but no one's really outwardly talking about it in the same way that you're doing. So it's a, it's super refreshing.
Thank you for sharing your journey. Oh, well, thanks.
I don't know that I should be thanked because I'm hoping I don't direct people. I've tried to be very cognizant of not trying to direct people.
You know what I mean? Like today I produced a video, the one I published was about choosing a market access provider and, and, you know, and I chose Indium and Indium comes with trade-offs, right? I mean, there's, there's a lot of positives obviously, and there's a whole reason why I chose them, but then there's things that you're trading and then there's decisions inside of them. And, you know, I don't want to say I chose this.
So this is what, so you're like stupid if you don't make the same decision as me like that. I want, I'm trying to be very cognizant not to say that I'm trying to give people, um, constructs or, uh, like thought experiments that they can go through to come up with their own decision, whatever that decision ends up being.
And then walking through the decision I made, you know, and I'll tell you the really hard part about all of this is the people side, right? So like you, you want to choose, uh, uh, um, I'll just say like an agency management vendor, right? Well, there's really good people at every agency management system. And you don't, you know, if you choose one, I, you know, I don't want, and I've become friends with so many people, you know, kind of coming from the other world, you know, coming from the other world.
Like if I choose by choosing someone, I can't help, but you know, alienate a little bit someone else. I'm trying to be very cognizant that too.
And And that's, that's probably the hardest part is like, I like doing business with people that I really like. And that actually made the decision.
And this is maybe my best piece of advice for anyone is, is like, do business with people you like, even if the tool isn't perfect. Because doing business with people you like is so much more fun and interesting.
And I feel like productive than trying to pick the perfect tool, but maybe you're working with people you don't know that well, or people who don't know you or, um, don't aren't as invested in your success. And I would, I would probably add to that, Ryan, do business with people you like but definitely that you can trust and are aligned with what's important to you you know like we live in a world that if you can't find that alignment you can have the best product in the world but if there's no trust and there's no alignment and why you're doing what you're doing and what you might do with the information that you share with the people you decide to do business with, then that's far worse than having a tool that may have some limitations.
So no like and trust is important. There's a reason people do business with people they know, like, and trust.
So I couldn't agree more. And, you know, it's funny, some of what you're saying, you know, I live in a world where we have a ton of, yeah, I meet a ton of people and I like all of them.
And there's not many demos that weren't absolutely beautiful. So, but we have to be able to be fairly agnostic, but give our agents the insights that we can provide to help them navigate some of the decisions that you're talking about.
You know, you choosing a market access provider had pros and cons. We were able to put it in data and say, so what's your average commission rate compared to other agencies that have made different decisions and what's the impact on your agency? So, and I'm not here to tell you which one's right or wrong.
I'm here to tell you this is what the universe looks like. This is what it looks like related to you and how can you, and here's the insight so you can make some decisions about your business.
And we're here to help you make those decisions or help bounce ideas off of. So I feel the same way.
Like I will never tell an agent the perfect way to do this is choosing X, Y, and Z. No, that's not how this works at all.
So anyway. Do you think that, do you think that that is a bit of a pendulum, that mentality? Because I see, I completely agree with that mentality, obviously.
I think that that is versus, I'd say the other side of that is like the influencer market who are like, here's how you do this. You know what I mean? Or you want to sell 10 more of these, do this thing.
And it's very much like, here's the exact way to do it. And I feel like the, you know I feel like giving people frameworks constructs you know whatever you want to call them to make the decision that's right for them is a far more advantageous way to help people than to just tell them what to do.
I couldn't agree more I just couldn't agree more here's the. I think the agency of the future are the people that can marry relationships with technology and data.
So the data part, there's metrics that are real. You do so many of this, it's going to have this kind of outcome as long as you have the right technology in place and the right people and they're trained the right way.
The beauty is there's other factors. There's a culture to consider.
There's people to consider. There's relationships to consider.
So there is no perfect recipe. There's only these guides to say, here's, here's where, here's a benchmark or here's a gut check for you, but there are, there's gray in the decisions that you're making, you know? So I couldn't agree more.
And anyone who tells you that it's all black and white, I think that that's that I'd be aware of that because they don't understand the business we're in, you know? The other part of this that I find, and I want to get into what you're doing and talk more about, about everything that you have going on too. I just, I'd find this to be so interesting.
The other thing I found so interesting is, um, again, and I, and I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm starting, I feel like starting this agency now at this point in my life is it's a very odd experience because I was an agent. Then I went into this other world where, you know, everything is on a national level, you know, meeting thousands of agents, you know, many of which are very, very successful, deep into their careers.
And now coming all the way back to the beginning, it's, it's, it's odd to, you know, things that I piece of advice that I would give to someone who's five years in or whatever, I, you know, I could never make that decision today. You know what I mean? Like, like, like Indium, right? If I'm five years in, or I'm pulling a book over and I already have a book that's a substantial size, maybe I don't, maybe I don't go with a market access provider.
Maybe, maybe I don't do that. Maybe I still do, but you know, today it's almost, it was almost like a necessity, like to get to certain markets without having all these demands from all these different carriers, but to still be able to provide a decent portfolio of, of markets, it was an absolute necessity that I had to make.
So it's like the, and my, my point in saying that again is, is more like at each stage of this business, the decisions become very different as well. It's not like you can just pick something and grow into it.
It's like, there's constantly evolving stages of what we do based on how you're building your agency. And then,

you know, a mutual friend of ours, Jason Cass, he's kind of going the other way. He's moving his business from being a home and auto shop to more of a large mid market commercial shop.
And he's reducing the number of clients he has, and that's changing things. So it's just so interesting how everyone, how unique an independent insurance agency is based on so many different, there's so many inputs that lead to your uniqueness.
It just is, it's just been very eye-opening and I've developed even more respect for the people that do this work. I couldn't agree.
So here's the thing, Ryan, you might make the same decision in a different stage or life cycle of your business, but it could be for a completely different reason, or you could make the opposite decision, you know, 10 years from now, you know, just like you said, Jason Cass, he made the decisions he made in order to grow his business to where it is today, where now he has different opportunities, different risks, different factors to consider, which lead him to a completely different. So I guess the point is, the agent also of the future needs to know when to evolve, how to evolve and what things to be constantly asking because our marketplace is changing as

rapidly as all these decisions face every single agent that's trying to run an agency. And that's the thing we want to really be in a place where we can help an agent navigate.
If I want to change, where do I start? Where are the opportunities within my agency? What are some things I should be thinking about? You know, another really good mutual friend of ours, I think

Jeff Roy said, data is only good unless you put it into action. Data is just data otherwise.
So,

you know, I couldn't agree more. And I love that your thinking is that way, because this is not a

set it and forget it business. This is a set it, live with it, adjust, measure it, adjust, measure, you know, that's, that's

the business you're getting in.

And yeah, I think I, again, I love that you're sharing the journey because maybe the agents

that have been in this business for a long time might rethink and say, maybe I should

be adjusting and rethinking some of the things that I decided. And maybe there's some opportunity here that I haven't seen.
So yeah, it's fun to watch. So let's talk a little bit about you.
So I first met you as the chief operating officer at OIA, the Ohio Insurance Agents Association, which actually I think was the first time when it was combined? Or was it before it was combined? When did you join? You joined in 2009. So you were there well before when Big Eye and PIA came together.
You were there before. So I met you the year after we merged, I believe.
Yeah. So So at the time I was serving as the CFO.
So my background's finance. And, um, you know, one of, one of the big things we, that I got to experience here was being able to merge the state affiliates of PIA and Big I.
So yeah, we met right after that. Um, and I've been here for 10 years.
So yeah, but my job's completely evolved since then, obviously. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I've, uh, go ahead. No, no.
So I was just going to ask you, I, before we get to, uh, um, Intel agents, um, which I am incredibly interested in, um, just been watching from afar and, um, you know, I'm just, I'm want to spend most of spend most of our time talking about that. But I just have a couple of questions just from your time from at OIA, because watching and I don't want to say taking part in, but just being around you guys, being in a couple of the events and, and knowing so many of your people well, it's by far one of, if not the most successful merger of the two association groups into one.
And then not just that, you guys are, you know, been, wow, let me start that again. OIA has been one of the most progressive and forward thinking and supportive and willing to experiment.
You know, you guys have really done some dynamic things and been a standard bearer for what a state association can be and do for their agent members. I'm just interested, what do you think attributed to that?

Like, how? be and do for their agent members. I'm just interested, what do you think attributed to that? What was that like to be in there, work through that merger, and then come out of it and be so productive? Yeah.
So thank you for that. I appreciate it.
I think the key to why that went the way that it did is because agents were 100% always put first. As we worked through that process, you know, it was very apparent that in the state of Ohio, there were two organizations doing almost exactly the same services for independent agents in our state.
We had a ton of overlap between the two organizations, and it's not the best situation for an independent agent to have to choose, why wouldn't it be one unit? Why wouldn't it be one strong voice for independent agents? So, you know, when the leadership aligned and our volunteer leaders aligned, you know, we have some of the best volunteer leaders in the state of Ohio that were instrumental in making that merger happen. And also, you know, once we were merged, it was like, okay, this is great.
But how do we bring great value to independent agents today and in the future? Because when you're in a state where there's two associations, you're competing. You're distracted and thinking the best thing we can do is grow this and our services and compete with that other organization.
I think the cool thing is our agents recognize we're not competing with an association down the street from ourselves, even before the merger. We're competing with other organizations that are thinking more progressively, and we need to think more progressively.
So step one, let's unify. Step two, let's start thinking about what really matters to independent agents and how we can help be their business advisors and bring them

the resources they need and the services they need in order to grow their businesses. That's what we're here for.
So I attribute it to, you know, we have alignment of thought around what a trade association really can do and be progressive as this marketplace changes. and also you know know, we have some energy on our team that's really, you know, gotten behind that.
We will always be a trade association. We will always do those things.
That's at our core. But the needs of our agents are changing, and we spent a lot of time and energy on that and said, so what is our role in helping our agents navigate that? And that's really allowed us to surround ourselves with people that think and feel the same way and start reinventing what a trade association should really be.
So much of what I saw too, so just having been a speaker at so many associations, and this is not to knock any association or anything, because I know everyone does the absolute best they can. But there was always a different energy when I went to one of your events.
And I'm just interested, like how it always felt like the people that you brought on board and, you know, new hires or just the individuals you had working, it was almost like there was, there was always this sense of energy about, about them. And like, how are you able as, you know, being part of the leadership team, like, how are you able to, to, to build that culture? Because it feels like, it feels very, you know, when people classically think of an association, right, you think kind of same old stuff, like, again, and I don't necessarily, I'm not trying to paint a picture, I'm saying what I think the perception is.
And you guys have broken that. I think Oklahoma does a great job.
North Carolina does a great job. There's many associations that do it.
But I'm just interested, like, how are you able to keep people so engaged and interesting and bringing energy culturally? Yeah, so I will tell you for us, anytime we bring agents in to talk to our staff about their experience, or we go in an agent's office and hear their experiences and learn about them, that is one of the most inspiring things you can do. And we, you know, I think I quoted, I think I made 180 agent visits over the last three years.
Like I sat in someone's office and talked to them in their environment and heard their story or helped them in some way. If you're disconnected, you really don't understand what you're doing or who you're doing it for and can't possibly know what they would need you to do to help them.
I think we've done, and so have many of our peer states, gotten super close to our agents, as close as we possibly can, and then made them the center of everything we're doing. If you're not doing that, and it's, you know, I think there's a disconnect.
So that's where our passion and energy comes from. If you walk through our building and through our office, I mean, there's no mistake who we serve because every photograph, every thought is about an independent agent that we've served.
And so that's super important. We have a constant reminder of why we do what we do.
And, you know, I think it, I know it, we, when we bring a new staff person on, that's, that's number one thing. Like we share story after story after story of the people that we're serving, and why we're doing this.
So, you know, I think that's key. And now, you've transitioned into being the CEO of intelligence, right? I'm saying that right? You are saying it right.
Yep. Intel Agents.
And I'm just, I'm incredibly interested in this for many reasons, but I would love for you to share with everyone listening that may have not heard of Intel Agents before. Just, you know, give us the elevator pitch.
Sure. So Intel Agents was founded last August.
It is a data analytics company that has built a platform for independent agents to share their information, but also get data insights in order to grow their businesses.

You know, the associations are inherently, we have the opportunity to learn so much about

the people we serve. We interact in the same way in every single state with our independent agents,

and we only serve independent agents. So everyone we interact with is in our marketplace.
So we are positioned as a trade association to know a ton about independent agents and historically we use the information we gathered for the transaction or the purpose only for that purpose. And what I mean by that is you come to our annual event, you register, you tell us something about your agency, and we do that to process your registration.
You come to our education class, same thing. You give us a birthday, it's to get your CE.
You become a member of our association, you share with us your premium volume. Never had we thought about marrying the data that we got from education and the data that we got from membership to say, wow, did you know in our marketplace 55% of our agents are going to transition the ownership of their agency, and that means $6.5 billion is going to trade hands.
We weren't thinking that way. So Intel Agents is an organization that is saying, what data do trade associations have on independent agents that can help independent agents grow their business? We're a great resource of that data, and we are aggregating it and sharing it with independent agents grow their business.
We're a great resource of that data and we are aggregating it and sharing it with independent agents in order to help them work on their business, not just in their business. So what kind of stuff are people getting out of it? Like, you know, I see, you know, when I was kind of doing research, you know, I'm looking at talent acquisition, operational efficiencies, organic growth, brokering acquisitions between other, other agencies.
So like, how would this help you acquire new talent? Like, let's just take that, that case. Sure.
So we started with the data that we have, obviously, and the data that we have was operational in nature. So we understood what the premium volume were for our agencies.
We knew what their carrier mix was. We know what their staff size is.
We know what their birth dates are. We did not have compensation to start with, but we have this deep knowledge in all the other areas.
The first step was to launch salary surveys in every single state that we operated. I guess it's important for me to tell you that this started in Ohio, and we now are in 14 states.
We'll grow probably to 19 or 20 states by the end of this year. We started with 2,200 agencies in our database, and we're now over 20,000 agencies across the footprint as we're in today.
So in the states where we did not have compensation, it's the number one area that agents want to know. They want to know, am I compensating fairly? Do I have the right staff structure? What's the productivity I should be expecting out of my staff? What benefits should I offer? You know, what's the generational health and how do I transfer knowledge from one generation to the other across the roles within my agency? There's, I mean, your people, the people in independent agents are their greatest asset.
And so it's the number one thing that they want to know. So we launched salary surveys in order to create those benchmarks.
And in every state where we operate, that benchmark has to be at 20% before we publish. And that is far deeper than any national benchmark that you'll find.
And it's actionable. So now, you don't look at a national productivity number, let's say, and you know, when do I hire an XCSR? Well, you can look at productivity numbers, look at your numbers and say, oh, it's probably my people are a little too overworked.
I need to hire at this point. When you look at a national number, those productivity numbers are completely skewed in certain marketplaces.
Now we're giving you the standards in your marketplace so you can make that decision. You know, for instance, Ohio can't sell workers' comp.
So the productivity numbers in Ohio will look completely different in a state that can sell workers' comp. So we've taken the guesswork out of some of the standards that are published and made it very relevant, not only in your state, but sometimes all the way down to the region.
And right now we do it by region, by size of agency, across the state. And then we also tell you in your marketplace who are the fastest growing agencies.
So you can start to think of, well, maybe there's a different way I can organize that would, you know, utilize my resources differently and allow me to have those growth rates. So the whole idea is how

do we provide the information that's relevant enough for an agent to take action? And we're there to say, you know, here's some things you should be thinking about when we present this in other agencies. Here's what they're thinking about.
We now can become an advisor to be the story around the numbers that they're looking at. Have you gotten any pushback from agencies that are worried about sharing data? You know, really they want to know when I give you my data, how does it stay secure and who else is going to have access to it? But when they see, you really in the aggregate, we only provide your data to you, they're fine.
And here's the thing, Ryan, these people have been doing business with us. They know, like, and trust us because we're in business to help them.
There's not many other organizations they're ever going to come across that has a more aligned mission than their trade association. So Intel Agents is 100% owned by trade associations, which are all led by independent agents.
So our mission will never vary from an independent agent. And I think that is our, it's our differentiator.
You know, there are other benchmarks out there. There's plenty of places for you to share your data, but are they aligned with what you're doing as an independent agent? I think that's the key.
So people ask questions about data, but I haven't gotten much pushback at all. In fact, it's, you know, it's refreshing to know that it's actionable and And it's something that I can put some weight in and start making a decision.
They want partners that want to help them. Yeah, it kind of comes up, it come kind of comes full circle to the conversation we're having very early on about technology vendors, just, we want to do business with people that we know, like and trust that that that is, you know, that's, that's one of the reasons why.
And I'm interested on your take on this. So I have been using this term like agent optimized agency, mashing up traditional kind of the classic virtues of a independent agency in the digital space.
But I am, I have no desire, nor do I believe that the future is a completely digital transaction. I do believe that there are lines of business that will probably go more that way.
But I always believe there's going to need to be an agent involved. And I'm positive you believe the same thing.
But oh, yeah, I understand. No doubt about it.
How do we continue to leverage? I guess the part that I'm super interested in is, I say that, I have no idea where the line is, right? Where the line, is it skewed more towards digital? Is it skewed more towards the humans? Is it, I guess I'm, I guess I'm just interested in your take, you know, on where you see some of these things going, because I almost feel like, and I could be wrong about this, but I almost feel like there's a lot of opportunity while everyone is rushing hardcore digital, there's almost an opportunity if you can become more human, like slow and and antiquated but just more human if that makes sense and I'm just interested in your take so Ryan it's so funny you know I had one agent that was talking to me and they weren't using this analogy but it's so similar they said you know everybody's running towards commercial commercials where they go if agency, I've got a commercial. And he's like, I'm growing personal lines hand over fist.
I think the line is going to be different for different agencies. And it really matters what you're focused on as that agency owner, what the culture is of your agency.
Because for as many consumers that are out there, their needs are varied.

And there's going to be the right agency for all different kinds of consumers. I couldn't agree with you more that there are certain lines of business that digital is much easier and much better fit.
But I'm a consumer as well. And I got to tell you, knowing that I have someone who actually cares about my family, that I can ask questions and has actually opened my eyes as a consumer in ways I didn't expect.
You know, I think being more human and actually being caring about the things that I care about and helping me understand how to best protect it is never going to go away. Our lives are getting so complex and the risk is going to get even more complex.
And you want someone who's actually knowledgeable that can help you through it. So, you know, Ryan, I have two girls.
I have a 21-year-old and a 20-year-old. And And we actually were, we were USAA clients for years, because I'm a military family.
And you know, that's just the way it was. I'm not today.
But I thought I had the best insurance on the planet before I came here. You know, I'm elite, I get to have USAA.
I'll tell you, I was one of the most underinsured people you probably had ever met. And my girls will never leave the independent agent that we do business with.
He has, he's gone above and beyond with our family. And, you know, relationships matter, even to the next generation.
So it's just, I think that it depends on the consumer. And there will be agencies out there that will meet those consumers needs.
But to say that we're going to be a hundred percent digital, I, I strongly disagree. I do not think that's the future.
So I'll give you an interesting example from my own life. I, you know, these are all the little things that you don't think about.

Like I had to choose a bank, right?

So I have, I'm with a credit union that I've been with for most of my, basically since I opened my first bank account, because my mom works for the state. So I'm with this credit union and they're great for personal banking.
They're a little antiquated, but they're great for personal banking, whatever. Well, you know, I, the fiduciary responsibility, keeping my money separate.
I wanted to get a different bank for rogue risk. So you got to, this is a decision you have to make, right? And it's at face value.
You're kind of like, ah, a bank is a bank is a bank. And then you start thinking about it and you're like, well, that's not exactly true.
You know, you can go with a Bank of America or Chase and they're everywhere and they're huge and they have all the apps and stuff or, and this is the way that I ended up going. Um, you know, and this is just so funny because I think sometimes we forget, I, you know, maybe just, I forget, um, I texted, I got a little man text that I'm on, right.
It's like five or six dudes that I'm friends with. We're all business guys in the area and we call it the man text chain for whatever reason.
So, so, so I text them and I'm like, Hey goons, I need a bank. Like who do you recommend? So I got a couple of recommendations.
And finally, one of my buddies is like, picks up the phone and calls me and says, do not listen to any of those guys. Call Lynn Smith at Pioneer Bank, sit down with her and just, I guarantee you open a bank account with them.
So because he's the one that picked up the phone, the rest of them just text me back. I call her.
She sets an appointment. She sits down with me for an hour and a half and listens to me talk about what Rogue is going to be.
We start, because one of the things I'm trying to do is get ahead of my first employee by getting either some working capital or a loan in place so that when I'm ready for my first staff member, I don't have to then go out and find the financing for it. Yeah, right.
Yeah. I'm just trying to get ahead of that.
So I was talking to talking to her about that and she's, we're coming up with all these options and it was great. I mean, I felt, and then she goes, um, you know, are you going to open a bank out here? And I said, I said, yes, I had planned to, I had really only made that decision during my conversation with her because she was so amazing, um, to talk to that.
Like, I was like, I can't not open a bank account here. Um, but not the most tech savvy like it took me a couple minutes to figure out how to connect it to QuickBooks online you know I mean it's not like Chase where you like click a button and it connects like you know it was a little bit more but she so then she says okay come back tomorrow at 10 30 a.m I'm gonna walk you down introduce you to the branch manager introduce you to the tellers so When you walk in they know exactly who you are and I just like I left and I was about people man it's about people that's the thing it's about people yeah that's what matters right because when you need something those people know you and they care about you and they want to know you that's the beauty of it so I couldn't agree more that's what my agent did I mean'm going to tell you a super quick story just because you told me yours and mine.
I was at Elevate. Okay.
So I'm at Elevate. My husband's traveling.
I'm obviously out of pocket. You know, this is a little bit ago.
And my daughter had her first car accident and she was terrified that a police officer was at her window. Like, and it wasn't her fault.
She was hit. So, and she was fine.
Everything's fine. But she's got a police officer getting ready to ask her questions and she's terrified.
She calls me. I'm out of pocket.
She calls my husband. He's on a plane.
She calls the agent. She calls the only number inside her glove box.
She called my agent, called my agent's office. Guess what? He was at all of a, but you know, it's funny.
He called he called her and the thing she said was I don't think you know this Ryan but my my oldest daughter has high functioning autism so for her to get a license was huge like she had to go through all kinds of stuff he walked he helped us he helped us in many ways so she's now driving and she's got a police officer at a window asking her questions and she's nervous. And the thing she said to me when she told me about this interaction was, I reached our agent and you know what, mom, he treated me like an adult and he helped me through it.
I'm like, yeah, you can't ever replace that. Like he's an amazing person and she will never forget that he was the person she could get ahold of and he helped her through it.
She wasn't at fault, but he just cared. He cared.
And so that matters. That bank person cared to introduce you and they're going to care when you need something.
And that's what you need when you're building a business. So, yeah, I fully believe that.
I hope that we never forget that. I think that's a big part of, I know it's a big part of why I do what I do.
I think one of the reasons that you and I have always connected is because you are the exact same way. And I think it's, I think that's why it's so important to continue to share these messages and continue to have conversations like the one we're having, because we can never lose sight of that.
It's so easy to write like you're running a data business. And, and it's easy when you dive into ones and zeros to forget that those ones and zeros aren't accounts, they're people, they're actions that people took, right? And, and look, I'm a huge technology homer.
I love it. I love to geek out on it.
I mean, like my favorite thing on a Saturday night is to drink beers and play with like automation systems and technology and stuff after my wife goes to bed. Like I'm a nerd.
Absolutely, man. Yeah, I get it.
Right? But at the same time, we're doing all that stuff. We can't forget that those are real people that you're, you're creating connections, not to get a user or an account through a system, but to help a human being feel better about an, about a transaction or understand a transaction more or give them more access to you in case something actually happens like with what happened with your daughter.
And I just, I think it's so important that we just, that we continue to have these types of conversations. I totally agree.
I mean, Ryan, for us, data is the vehicle that helps us give the right information to help independent agents navigate the decisions they need to make. And we want to be there to help them navigate it.
That's the, that's, I mean, I don't know if I'm sure you follow me on social, but the days when I get to sit in an independent agent's office and be able to help with that conversation are my favorite days. The data is, the data is important and it helps me be able to give context and, you know, provide ideas and get feedback.
But it's really about how do I help you build a plan and weigh the things that you should be weighing and be a sounding board for you or being, be a, you know, an advisor, be sometimes a quarterback just to keep you on plan with the thing that you said you want to do. But it's really about the consulting that comes along with the data insights that we're providing.
That's, that's what inspires me. And that's the thing we get excited about around here.
So it's about the people, you know. So I have I have two more questions for you that I that I want to hit you with.
The first one is probably fairly easy. And that is like, what was the, has there been or what was the first piece of data that you came across at Intel Agents that kind of like took you by surprise or that you thought wasn't what you expected? Yeah.
So, you know, we came up with the idea and we built a data strategy and we took a year to mine our data and actually say, what do we even have?

You know, it's when we first hired our data strategist. I wrote the strategy and then we're like, yeah, we probably need someone way smarter than me to figure out how to put this in practice.
So we spent a year really mining our data. and what was alarming is if you watch all the, you know, insurance trade magazines and the news reports,

you would think that private equity transactions are dominating our marketplace but what we actually found when we mined our data was 91% of all the mergers and acquisitions in our state were retail agent to retail agent or internal perpetuation. Like that was mind boggling.
What's even worse, Ryan, is how many of them went through without any valuation at all. These are the largest asset of our independent agent, and they're doing it on a multiple of revenue that's one line item in their agency.
You know, I, that was, that was the reason we got into the marketplace first by providing evaluation product that is affordable and accessible by our average agent, which, you know, there are great people in the marketplace doing this. They've been doing it for years, but they're pricing them.
Their price structure doesn't really allow 80% of our members to even access their product. So that was that.
I mean, that's the reason. That's the first product that got to market before we ever did benchmarking and we ever did our insights report or online tools because there's such a need and it it's been super rewarding to be part of that process.
I'm happy to tell you that 42% of the agencies that have done valuations with us have done it for business planning purposes, not to sell, not to perpetuate because they want to understand the value of their agency. I feel like we're making a difference by providing's, I'm super proud of that.
Yeah. You know, that's one of the, one of the, one of the more pot, um, sorry, one of the more powerful messages that I think, uh, Zach Gould and Matt and Amalia put out into the world from GNN insurance is that five years prior to when they, um, uh, sold GNN to HILB, they had been doing valuations.
So they knew every year what the valuation of their business was and how it had changed and what factors had changed that valuation throughout the process. And I think that's a really important message.
And, you know, so I'm looking at the page, anyone who's listening, go to intelagents.io. You can check out the whole site.
I'll have a link on the show notes as well, but there is a tab for valuation and you can see like, you know, we're talking 2,500 to 3,100, depending if you're a member or non-member. I mean, that's, that's very, very reasonable for, uh, an agency to have a much better picture of, of their standing and then benchmark that standing over time each year.
To me, this is like an absolute must. It should just be factored into your expense load that each year you're going to do this because it puts you in such a better position.
And having talked to Zach and Matt a lot about that decision, it was something that was recommended to them. They took it on and they equate it to much of the success that they saw of those five-year period was being able to take this valuation in, find their weak spots, work on them, and then double into their strengths.
And that's really a big part of what propelled their business forward. And I think every agency can do that.
Without question. Never ever sell your agency without doing some serious planning for at least five years in advance.
So you can maximize the value, whether you're going to perpetuate internally, externally, just work on the business to make sure you set the next, you know, if it's an internal perpetuation, set them up for success, make good decisions and be informed. And, you know, some of the best things is the second year valuation, where we get to see that an agency took some of our advice and they see that value went up.
I mean, that's a win all day long for us. So I appreciate that.
But it's one of the most rewarding things, but it was the glaringly obvious thing that we needed to put in the marketplace. Yeah.
So the last question I want to ask, and I want to be very respectful of your time. You wrote an article that I think is tremendous called Caution, Broken Glass Ahead.
And it was all about female leadership in the insurance space, something that I'm a very strong proponent of. And it was one of the things at Elevate 2018 that was very important to me, I actually think that I talked to you guys about it, and that I wanted to have as much diversity and reputation in representation and voices, not just male, female, but just diversity in general and voices.
But I think it's, I love one that you've taken this on to that you're using your position as both a well-respected individual, but also now a CEO of an enterprise in our space to push this. So I'm just interested in your comments, your thoughts, where we've come from, where we are, where we're going.
But I just wanted to put that out there and I'll have the link. I think I'll have the link to both Carrie's LinkedIn post and her general LinkedIn so you can connect with her in the show notes for this episode as well, just so people listening at home know.
Yeah, so I appreciate that, Ryan. I started my career in a technology startup.
And I mean, even back to when I got a degree in finance, I was one of four women that graduated at WVU that year with finance. I've been in male-dominated industries my entire career and often looked around the room and thought, oh, wow, I am 100% the minority in this room.
The good news is I have had mentors, male, female, younger than me, older than me. You know, it's not at all inhibited my ability to find the right people, surround myself with super smart people.
But, you know, I don't know that that's true for all people. And I think people, I think it's important to talk about and recognize those that have found their way when they are not in the majority.
You know,

I found myself in a room of agents, but I guess it's about a year ago. And someone said, you know,

I'm the token Canadian. I bet you could imagine who that was.
And when it got to, you know,

we were all introducing ourselves. And when it got to me, I was the token woman in the room.

And that's been a role that I've been in for a really long time. I've actually taken it as a really great compliment that I'm able to break through and get there.
But I want other people in my position, or that maybe, you know, don't see that it's possible to hear that it is possible, and you need to make it happen. And, you know, I think it's also important for leaders, male, female, you know, different nationalities, all kinds of things, different races to recognize that you have to surround yourself and diversify in order to have diversity of thought.
And it's incredibly important in our industry. So, yeah, I don't know if you know this, but we've created some peer groups that are female-based to create a network for that here at OIA.
We see that there are some amazing leaders. You know, there's three women on our board, and we're very diligent about making sure that we find leaders and give opportunities because our industry needs diversity of thought.
And that's one way to do it. We're far from being, you know, from solving the diversity problem, but we're doing the best that we can.
And, you know, I think the industry we're in is amazing. And I think there's amazing people, but you need to find your group.
And, you know, I've found mine without question. So anyway, I feel like it's it's important to have that voice.
I think, you know, Sydney Rowe does a really nice job of talking about her journey and it's, it's different for everyone, but the whole idea is you just got to get the voice out there. So others see there there's possibility and opportunity.
Awesome. Well, Carrie, this has been such a tremendous conversation.
I know any time that I get to spend with you is very enjoyable. And can you let everyone listening, like where can they find out more? Where can they connect with you? And where can they find out more about Intel agents or any other resources that you think are important for someone who's listening going, I want to know more or be involved or what have you? So for any agents that are out there, you know, our website is intelagents.io.
And if you're in any of the states that we're in, you can reach out to the state associations. You okay if I share the states really quickly? Oh, yeah, go ahead.
Yep. Yeah.
So it started in Ohio, and we are now in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland. We're in North Carolina, Florida, Illinois, Michigan.
Those are our investor states. We are getting ready to launch in Kansas, Georgia, Texas, California, and Tennessee.
So any of those states, you need to reach out to them and say, hey, how do I find out about the benchmarking rise report? How do I find out about valuation? How do I find out about data insights that I can get from my independent agency or by, you know, my association? And again, all of this information is on intelagents.io. I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm everywhere. So I'm happy to connect with anyone

who wants to talk about this.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much for being on the show

and chatting with me

and just all the work you do in general.

You are the classic professional

and it's just a pleasure to know you.

Well, thank you, Ryan.

I am watching and wonder as you build your business

and if you ever need anything, I'm right here.

I'd love to chat.

I wish you all the best.

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