How To Embrace Your True Strength, Turn Your Pain Into Power & Create A Legacy

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Where do you think your life would have been in that year had you not had the loving, committed relationship, child?

as well, first child.

Where do you think temptation would have led you?

Or do you think you would have made the same decision with the sand in the ground or was it having a committed conscious loving relationship and partner and teammate that allowed you to have the courage to act with that line in the sand well

and the only reason i pause here is because i'm trying to wonder how

little of credit to give the relationship because i'm not going to say it's 100 but it's up there the relationship having her and be now about to become a father, which was the only thing I ever wanted to be, had great resonance for me.

I, one, had a relationship which gave me, just singularly with Camilla, gave me more

license and courage to fly.

But now I'm going to become immortal, so to speak, with a child coming into the world.

It's the one thing I ever dreamed of being, become a father.

That's at the top of my list since I was a kid.

Now I'm like, well, this is what I'm doing.

This part of life has always taken precedent before anything I did since got famous,

won this or won that.

My career was always in front of a Hollywood career.

Always.

That's what I mean by J.K.

Living.

That's why Jake, just keep living has always been sort of a mantra.

At the end of the day, argue with that one.

At the end of the day, that wins out.

I've always wanted to have.

a life that I'm leading first

and I became an actor and a movie star and famous, but not, oh, I'm an actor, movie star, and famous.

So now, what do I do?

How do I live my life according to that?

No, I wanted to keep those in order.

If you didn't have that relationship at that time, what do you think would have happened?

That's a good question.

What would have happened?

Do you think it would have been more tempting to take the money?

Let me just.

I mean, yeah, the nights would have been even longer.

I think it would have definitely got more wobbly.

I would have really had to.

I mean, I believe I could have pulled it off.

I'm glad I didn't have to find out if I could have pulled it off on my own.

I might have run off to the monastery

and still be there.

You know,

or

because I had, I look, I had very

somewhat reliable temptation from people very close to me going,

what's your malfunction, bro?

My brothers and family were like, what What is your major malfunction?

What are you doing?

You own this landing of the rom, but why are you making a straight line crooked?

Which is the line we always use?

Why are you making this complicated?

Do you know how many people would

dream to even be doing this?

And so

I did have that understanding, which I'll bring up to the book about being less impressive and more involved.

I was very thankful.

I was never disrespecting the rom-com.

I was just like, I don't know.

I didn't make this up, this feeling in me.

You're a new season.

Well, I want more, and there's a new chapter to come so i what would i've been do what would i be doing now if i didn't have camel and she she we didn't have her first child on the way

i don't know that to that eight that 20 months would have felt like 20 years if i'd if i'd have stuck with it and would i have had the patience would i had the fortitude would i have been able to stay still

in the long

lonely nights where I didn't feel like I had purpose, where I didn't feel significant, where I didn't have a a newborn child and a relationship to look at and go.

Because I knew then, I was like, you put time into that, you cannot go wrong.

I looked at my newborn child.

I looked at him.

I was like, you put time into this, you are in the black.

There is no debit, no matter how much.

You can't overdo that.

So that gave me something.

If I didn't have that,

no, no, no, no, no, I'm not sure.

16 years you said you've been together, right?

Yeah, 16 years.

There's a, there's a lot of men that are driven men.

I'm in LA, so I see this in LA where they feel like they need to be single for a long time or they need to jump from partner to partner or have multiple partners at the same time, all these different things.

No judgment, no right or wrong here, but I'm curious, what have you learned about 16 years in a relationship that has taught you about how much more successful you can be in other areas of life versus single life when you were also extremely successful, but maybe there was something missing, you know, emotionally or spiritually.

Yeah.

Well, I'm going to piggyback on where you first started.

I don't, I've got friends that are poly and I've got friends that are perpetually single.

And

to see them,

when they do pull it off and still have a healthy spirit and a healthy body and a healthy mind, I applaud it.

I'm right on.

I do, I have seen a lot of them have to, oh, I got to recalibrate.

I got,

you know,

I got off.

I got spread too thin.

Energy everywhere.

You know, a bunch of little campfires, but no bonfires, right?

You can do it.

I think a person can do it on their own.

I think a person can do it in solitude.

I think a person can do it even with a relationship with just themselves, if you

think can be done.

But when you have a relationship that you're committed to, that you want to make work, that it's part of your decision,

and especially when you have a child that is not only you're committed to you is dependent on you

that goes to the top of the value system

and so career choices can go into the two hole or maybe the three hole

now

i would argue that i got better at my career interesting when it went to the two and three hole and wasn't in the one hole really

because

i didn't

and i feared this i was like

whoa was having a family and the fact that when we had kids my wife said if we have kids on one condition, Matthew, when you go, we go.

So my family comes with me.

When she said that to me, I remember going through my mind, wait a minute, I'm an artist.

I'm a lone wolf.

When I go to work, I'm in my airstream all alone.

It's me and my dog, maybe.

But nobody else.

And as I'm saying that in my head, this other little smarter voice comes in and goes, nod your head and say, yes, ma'am.

And I said, yes, ma'am.

It was the greatest decision I've ever made.

Right.

Because seeing my kids or leaving before they woke up and seeing them when I got home after work

was a beautiful, energizing reset for for me at the end of the day that filled me up with real life and made me more creative

going into work the next day.

To tell a child when you're doing something like true detective and they go, What was the scene about today?

And you go, I better tell a good parable because I can't tell them the real thing.

It's some heavy R stuff, right?

So I became a better storyteller and how I'd make it a nursery ride or something.

But you're living for something

for someone else and something more.

And, you know, for Camille and I, living for the covenant that for her and i

to do what we can to to stay together and keep promoting each other and ourselves in a relationship and then to have the kids i'm living you're living for something else and that empowered me and made me better as an individual really and when i go out the door i have more courage because i know i've got that stability at home wow where do you think you would have been if you had been in a relationship you know five ten years prior yeah and it'd be 25 years opposed to 16.

Do you think you would have been better in your career or you'd have made that shift sooner?

Or do you feel like,

you know,

being the lone wolf, you had its time and its place and it's time.

I think it had its time and its place.

I'm not arrogant enough to say, oh, if I go back and change time.

I mean, I've thought about that.

I was with and dated seriously some wonderful women before I met Camilla.

I think it wasn't the time for me and it wasn't the time for them for us to take it.

further, to take it as far as, say, could be married or something.

But,

you know i often wonder what if what if it was what if i felt like it was time that early i never did right what if i did

you know do we meet the right person sometimes but it's just not the time for us interesting do we do or is it it's the two play it's got to be the right person and the right time for each person but i i know i i cannot go back

you know going forward to mystery looking back to science when i connect the dots i don't dare to go back and go if i had changed 10 10 years earlier, I'm thinking about who I was dating.

If we'd have got married, I mean,

who knows?

I don't think it would have been the same realization 10 years earlier.

I was a different man.

I was seeing the world differently.

And we'll never know, but

I think it was the right time for me when this happened.

And my single years were the right amount of time.

For me when I was there, and those relationships before that, that ultimately ended, that was the right time for them to end.

So how old were you when you met your wife?

So 16, 53, 40, 37.

37.

So when you were 37, before the moment you met her, I think you met her at a bar on sunset.

Club on Sunset.

SARS Club on Sunset.

Club.

Let's call it that morning.

Don't go to many clubs.

Glad I went to the club this night.

Yeah, it was good.

Let's call it that morning or that season right before you met her.

What was it that made you feel loved then?

And what is it today that makes you feel the most loved today?

Okay.

What is it that made me feel the most loved before?

Yes.

Okay.

When I was spiritually strong.

And

look, I was,

I had some relationships that were loving relationships that, or I loved the woman, she loved and cared for me.

And those were real.

Yes.

I also had

a season where

it was just affairs it wasn't about love it was lust it's fun yeah it was fun and it was it was healthily it was a healthy fun transaction and we laughed and kept it light and that was all it was ever going to be and

you know and that was okay too

um

i am happy to say that through most most of that I was able to keep somewhat spiritually strong.

Really?

How did you say that?

And had no, and didn't really have trouble sleeping alone in my own bed because I've had those times, I think we all have if we've had this single life.

Where there's times where, if you're rolling like that, especially if it's like affairs and flirt popping around here and there,

boy, all of a sudden, you end up in bed alone,

you can't sleep, and you're like, whoa,

wait a minute, now I'm the company I can't stand being with.

If it's only me, that would always be a trigger for me.

Like, you better bend a knee and go

inward.

Catch your breath and go inward here.

So.

So, what made you feel the most loved before you met her?

Yeah, what was it?

I mean,

was it the success or the failure?

No, I didn't.

The chase, was it the, you know?

No, it wasn't the

chase and

catch.

I knew what that was.

That always felt like a stop and not a stay.

To me, it was a season.

Yeah.

I understood it to be a season.

And I gave myself freedom and license to have that season as healthily

as I could.

I don't think I was any more shallow.

I didn't think,

oh, this is all there is.

I did have

a dream where I thought

where I was 80, an 88-year-old bachelor, but had a lot of children.

You did.

Yeah, and it wasn't a nightmare.

88-year-old bachelor?

And you had a lot of children.

That wasn't sitting on our porch, and it wasn't a nightmare.

Really?

And I woke up from that dream, not going, yippee, that's what I'll do.

I did wake up with it going,

that's possible.

And as soon as I said,

that's possible,

I did quit looking so hard.

And when I quit looking for her so hard,

that's when she came.

Because before that, I will say, in my thought of, I do want to find someone to fall in love with and start a family.

I mean, every red light, bro.

L.A.

Possible, possible.

Produce section.

You know what I mean?

Possible, possible.

You're going to class, Whole Foods,

checking, you know, everywhere.

And

I was looking.

I was leaning in, leaning in.

And so, well, Matt, maybe that could work.

Like that script, well, maybe that could work.

You know, and then when I had that dream, it did, it was like, oh, on a spiritual sense, I was like, well, you might end up being an ADRO bachelor.

And if you've got

spiritually, if you're spiritually strong, your relationship with God's strong, that's okay.

It didn't make me go, that's what I want to do.

But just saying, that could be a reality for you.

Let me exhale.

And I quit looking everywhere at at everybody.

I quit looking in the prototype and was like, and I, what happens when you do that?

You become more attractive.

You allow yourself to be loved.

You allow yourself to see someone who actually you might love.

But mainly you allow yourself to be someone that can be loved.

And you're not selling, you're not soliciting yourself.

You're not in a rush about anything.

You want to meet somebody.

You also, what you look at, you want to see how they move.

How far back are the shoulders?

How do they talk?

What do they say in between the lines?

Not what they say.

What do they say in between the lines?

And I remember when I saw Camilla walk across the club that night, it was the way she moved.

I saw history, I saw dignity, I saw somebody that was not for sale, I saw somebody that

didn't need, that when I called her over, was not happy to meet me, but wasn't over,

wasn't impressed with my invocation.

And she knew who I was.

Wasn't impressed with that.

She was about a lot more than that.

So

my eyes were open to seeing

what I wanted and needed.

And I also

was able to, in that moment, completely be myself, not oversell myself,

not undersell myself.

Did you feel like you needed to oversell yourself before then, even though you had all the success and the fame and the hits and the money?

I think when

just a sped, it's a sped up process, you know.

Especially if you're like

in, you know,

if it's

more of a string of short-term relationships, it's like

it's not overselling.

It's just like, let's skip the

let's skip a lot of the real stuff.

Let's skip a lot of the, you know what I mean?

Come on, we're just here.

We're laughing.

We're having a good time.

You know what I mean?

And that's all we're both in this for.

So, you know,

so you speed up the process.

So I don't know when you say, what did I love?

It wasn't my fame.

Did I feel more loved if my movie did well and more people came up and was like, that was great?

Sure.

Sure.

But that was never my

top source of affirmation of feeling love.

Did I feel less loved if the movie bombed?

Or if people were like,

sure.

But that was never my

source of my lack of confidence or lack of significance.

It was maybe spiritual.

And then

I always had family at this time, being my brothers and my mom and stuff.

There was always that

that I knew was 100% reliable.

But maybe I would say spiritual.

And then your follow-up question to what makes you feel more loved now?

Yeah, when do you feel the most loved now?

Oh, the

good night group hug with my three kids and my wife after we've just talked about.

what her day was like, what we're looking forward to tomorrow.

And we've had a few fun disagreements and somebody said something real honest that they didn't have the courage to say maybe a week before.

And for the first time, noticed that if they shared that, they weren't going to get in trouble,

that they were just going.

And to see them grow and going, you got the courage.

Me and tend to feel like a dad and going, me and your mother are giving you a place to feel like you can go.

Well, yeah, I did like her.

And

my heart hurts because she doesn't like me.

To be able to, for a child to be able to say that to you, it's like, okay, we're doing something right.

There we go.

That's a feeling of love.

To have an honest talk, not just about all the happy times, but about the stuff that sucks in my kids' lives as well.

And even from my wife, to share it and it not be like, dun, dun, dun, dun.

Right, right.

To be like, yep, we're going through this.

And one thing we know is we're going through it together.

That, that, that's.

That's beautiful.

That's beautiful.

One of the things that you talked about

in the book in the last couple pages was this list of goals that you wrote down.

One of them.

10 goals in life, 1992.

92.

One of them, becoming a father, and number two, finding and keeping the woman for me, the woman for me.

And you had 10 of them.

I'm curious,

how important is it to write down our visions, our dreams, our goals?

in order to manifest what we want in our lives because this whole book is a journal of you writing down everything.

And all 10 of these, you've accomplished all of them.

And you're still accomplishing them, living into them.

So how important is it to write down our dreams, our goals, our values in order to manifest and attract them?

I think it's a lot more important than we give it credit for.

Look, writing things down, it seems like this old-fashioned sort of archaic names.

Type it.

It's on a screen,

put it on a Word doc, save it, put it in a folder.

It can be lost back there.

To actually write it with the hand

is a different kind of objectivity you get.

Because it's come out of you, you've put it down.

Now you're looking at it.

It's outside of you.

It's freed up now.

It's alive.

It's moving.

Now,

more so than having that goal by your bedside every night,

which can be good.

But to write it down,

If you're writing down true goals,

they become written in your lineage.

They become written in your body, whether you know it or not, in your subconscious.

It's a way to get it into your subconscious, to write it down.

Now it's out of me.

It's on a page.

I'm objectifying it.

Now I'm looking at it.

So now I'm having a dialogue where before it was just Socratic, but now I'm having a dialogue and it starts to reciprocate.

Those 10 goals, I wrote those down in the top bunk in the Dell House, University of Texas, 1992.

My roommate was Monty Wills.

I remember the night I wrote them down.

Wow.

I never looked at them again.

I found those in writing this book and found out that, oh my gosh, all 10 you actually did and four you're still doing.

That's crazy.

And they never looked at them again.

30 years later you found them.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

But they all happened.

They all happened.

I don't think they happen if I don't write them down.

I don't think they do.

So

that practice of writing something down that you into or that you want or that you yearn for

and to add to it or subtract from it along the way if you want to or just write it down fold it up tuck it away so you can find it 30 years later when you go want to

share a journal or write something about it

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Like I did.

I don't think it happens, but then just go back and see the invisible contract I made with myself.

Oh my gosh, I love that.

Because obviously I did.

Because I mean, those 10, people go, you've done all 10.

I say, well, no, I'm in the middle.

I'm still, I have to still maintain four, but I have engaged.

Some of them I've just done.

But

I am in full engagement with all of them.

And

well it's an invisible contract until it becomes a physical written contract right you know and it's with yourself and you

it becomes there's an invisible way it becomes subconsciously non-negotiable with yourself and here's the interesting thing on this i don't know is this the exact image or is this a recreated image no that's it this is the photo of it or

you signed it yeah and that's what i think is actually really important because you did create a contract with self right you signed the goals at the bottom you have 10 goals in life 91 92.

And you bottom, at the bottom, you signed it.

And I think that's really important in creating a,

you know, this contract with self is putting your name on something that you write down from the ideas in your mind into paper so that you can actualize this in life.

And I think that's what's beautiful.

And you were like, what, 20 years old when you did this?

20, 21.

And folks, anyone who thinks so that sounds like, you know, Mike Tyson talking about Mike Tyson when he's himself coming to the third person, do it.

Don't worry.

Sign your stuff to yourself.

You know what I mean?

Write to yourself and sign it.

It's a great practice to do.

You are then getting a third person objective view of yourself.

Where, so you will have a better chance of subjectively creating those and activating those things and having them happen.

One of the things in here,

number seven, stay close to mom and family.

I know there was a period, I think you said six or eight years, where you pulled away from your mom.

I think you're still close with your brother, but you pulled back because she was kind of

loving the fame, and it was making it about her as opposed to supporting your son.

So that was something that kind of came and went, and you danced with, but you know, now it seems like you guys are, you know, in a great place.

She's living with us four years now.

She's 91.

And then also, you had number eight, win an Oscar for the best actor.

How do you, at 20, 21,

write down a goal of winning an Oscar when I think.

And I wasn't even acting at that time.

That's nuts.

You didn't even do the first movie yet?

No.

Why did that come in your mind?

Why was that even a thought, a dream, a goal?

So this is, I believe, right after I had, soon after I had called, my father said, don't want to go to law school anymore.

I want to go to film school.

Now, I'm looking back.

And he said a great line back, too.

He said a great line.

He said, don't half-ass it.

Don't half-ass it.

Yeah.

Which was three, whatever, four, however many words is the best words I've ever heard.

From the man who I ultimately really wanted my ultimate approval from.

And he didn't give me, he gave me a lot more than approval with that line.

He meant kick in the backside, privilege, freedom, responsibility, kick, go do it.

And I suppose,

I know consciously, but probably subconsciously too, there's things that I've done where I wanted to let something slide and those words came in my mind.

I was like, uh-uh, no way.

Uh-uh.

That'd be half accident.

So those words have lived with me.

I decided I want to go to film school.

And I went back through these journals and I find something like that I was like

dude you always wanted to be an actor interesting like you just wouldn't admit it

and I remember

always being sheepish about someone got like well you just want to why don't you perform

something about it in my head felt fraudulent then

something about being behind the camera to go to director school learning story felt like well that's my

I'll sneak in the back door to the acting right?

But that's the better way.

And I, I'm glad I went that path.

But I think I wanted to, and I've talked with my buddy Rob Bindler, who I bring up often in this book about it.

And he was like, yeah, you were wanting to.

He reminded me of talks we'd have late night.

And he was already at NYU film school.

He was like, reminding me of, yeah, you were already wanting to

at this time when you first went to film school.

So

I write that down to myself.

I'm not afraid to write it down to myself, but I'm afraid to say anything like that out loud.

I'm afraid to even say I'm interested in going into acting at this point.

Wow.

But yet I write down, I want to win an Oscar.

That's why that's crazy.

Wow.

So when you saw this paper, you had already won

these goals.

Yes.

You know, for the first time after, I guess,

close to 30 years.

You'd won it, I think, I don't know, six, seven years prior to that.

Yeah.

What did that feel like when you read this and you saw win an Oscar for best actor?

I I read it.

I was like, no,

are you kidding?

Get out of here.

Camilla, check this out.

Are you kidding me?

Wow.

And then I went

right back to the night.

And I remember sitting in the top bunk.

We'd just come from the arcade.

Me and Monty Wills, a roommate.

He was in the bottom bunk.

I was in the top bunk.

Like a two Thursday night.

I've been journaling.

I wrote in this little journal.

And I remember

that night.

Other people were actually going out for a late.

We'd been out kind of party, and other people went to the next party.

And I decided to come home and sort of mine.

Hot all the top punk.

I brushed my teeth, went out, put them shorts, kind of bed, kind of cover, sat up there, and I had a little window right here.

And I have a little diary on the little window seal with a pen.

Bunk bed.

Yeah.

That we made.

We made these bunk beds.

We were the first bunk beds in the Dell House.

And

pulled over and I wrote it.

And I think I had a, I think I even

a form of a headlamp if they even had headlamps.

I loved headlamps, still do love headlamps.

And written that and I wrote that down.

Wow.

Curious, if you didn't create this contract for yourself, do you think you would have accomplished all 10 of these goals and dreams for your life?

Or would some of them maybe fallen through the cracks because you didn't create that, turn the invisible contract into a physical written contract and make it real?

I don't know.

I mean, I have to believe that writing them down

subconsciously led to me actually,

I knew what they were.

I couldn't recite them to you because I never looked at them again, but I knew what they were.

Who was more influential for you, your father or mother?

Both were influential at different points.

Yeah.

Right.

My mom was there on a daily basis.

My father was really influential at a really critical time where I had a summer where I played basketball when I was like 10 or 11 years old in a very prominent summer league in Philadelphia called the Sunny Hill League.

Where my father played, my uncle played, and they were like all-time greats.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Will Chamberlain played in the league, you know, Earl of Pro-Monroe played in the league.

And here I come playing, and I don't score one point the entire summer.

Really?

Not one.

How old were you?

11, 10, 11.

And you're playing against other 10, 11 year olds?

And you didn't score once?

Not one.

Were you in the game?

I was in the game.

How did you not score?

Because I was terrible.

Really?

Yeah.

That happened.

1011 years old.

You were that awful.

I mean, you know, and I had these big knee pads on because I was growing really fast.

I have socks all the way up here, and I had like the pie top skinny,

like skinny as hell.

And I scored not a free throw, not a nothing, not a lucky shot, not a breakaway layup, zero points.

And I remember crying about it, being upset about it.

And my father just gave me a hug and said, Listen, whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what.

Wow.

Now that is the most important thing that you can say to a child.

Because from there, I was like, okay, that gives me all the confidence in the world to fail.

I have the security there.

But to hell with that, I'm scoring 60.

Let's go, right, right.

And from there, I just went to work.

I just stayed with it.

I kept practicing, kept practicing, kept practicing.

Is that when you think the mentality of hard work started to come in for you at that age when you failed so miserably, I guess, that summer?

I think that's when the idea of understanding a long-term view became important because I wasn't going to catch these kids in a week.

I wasn't going to catch them in a year.

Right.

So that's when I sat down and said, okay, this is going to take some thought.

All right.

What do I want to work on first?

All right.

Shooting.

All right.

Let's knock this out.

Let's focus on this.

Half a year, six months, do nothing but shoot.

Right.

After that, all right, creating your own shot.

And you focus.

So you start, I started creating a menu of things.

When I came back the next summer, I was a little bit better.

Right.

And then you being like, I've got my jump shot from 15.

I've got my.

Yeah, I got my jump shot from 15.

I got my three-point shot.

Like, just open shots.

Not miss open shots, right?

Be able to shoot it with speed because those kids are so much more athletic.

Yeah.

And then the next summer came back, it was a little better.

And the summer came back, the next summer, it was a little better.

I scored.

Yeah, it wasn't much, but I scored.

Missed 12, 13.

12, 13.

And then 14 came around, back half at 13, 14 years old.

And then I was just killing everyone.

And it happened in two years.

And I wasn't expecting it to happen in two years, but it did because what I had to do was work on the basics and the fundamentals.

Well, they relied on their athleticism and their natural ability.

And because I stick to the fundamentals, it just caught up to them.

And then my body, you know, my knees stopped hurting.

I grew into my frame.

And then your athleticism, once you have the fundamentals,

the hard work, the mindset, and you tack on the athleticism.

It did gamble.

Then it was gaming.

Wow.

So from 13, you're good, average still.

I was good.

I was good.

And then about

the end of my third, like right when I was turning 14, I became the best player in the state.

At 14.

At 14.

So from 12 to 14, you went from scoring zero to being the best in the state of all ages.

Yep.

But it's simple.

Like if you do the math on this, right?

Like if you're thinking about how often kids are playing,

right?

And I'll tell this to my daughter and my daughter's team as well that I coach.

It's a simple thing of math.

If you want to be a great player, if you play every single day, two, three hours, every single day over a course of a year, how much better are are you getting most kids will play maybe you know an hour and a half two days a week

right put a math on that season it's not going it's not gonna get it done it's not gonna get it done right so if you're obsessive obsessive obsessively training two three hours every single day over a year over two years You're already accelerating.

You make quantum leaps, man.

Just doing a summer camp for two weeks, you see a difference.

I remember playing basketball with the game.

You see it.

You get a lot better.

You come back more confident playing on the playground with guys who used to beat you.

Yeah.

And like I tell the parents on my team, I said, it's when I say, your kids are going to become great basketball players.

And they're like, really?

Yeah, it's not.

There's no math.

It's it.

Show up every single day.

Show up every single day, do the work.

Maine, where life the way it should be transforms all who encounter its spectacular landscapes.

Rugged coastlines, pine-scented trails, sandy beaches, sparkling lakes, and tranquil forests inspire you to reflect and make meaningful moments.

They offer endless opportunities for adventure and exploration.

Whether pedaling or paddling, hiking or biking, Maine has more than enough outdoor spaces to make the most of long summer days.

Relish in exquisite flavors harvested from the ocean and the rich soils of orchards and fields.

Maine's makers are rooted in its heritage while boldly branching into new ways of thinking, doing, and being.

Connect with its people in warm and authentic towns, which beckon you to stroll art galleries and locally owned shops, where generations of artists, writers, entrepreneurs, and craftspeople see the world anew.

It's tempting to do it all when you visit, but take a beat and a breath.

Get a feel for the time and tempo of Maine, simple pleasures, scenic adventures, where every route is the scenic one.

Discover more at visitmaine.com.

You've probably heard me say this before, but taking care of your health should be your number one priority.

What you put in your body directly impacts how you think how you feel and how you show up in the world and whether you're training for a marathon you're running a business or just trying to get through a busy day with energy and clarity nutrition is fundamental and when i feel my body right i perform better period and that's why i'm a big fan of rx bar rx bar is all about simple ingredients and honest nutrition they lead with transparency just look at their packaging says no bs just real ingredients like egg whites for protein dates to bind and nuts for texture.

Whether you're on the go or in between meetings, they've got something that fits.

The original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar, soft, crispy, and packed with 10 grams of protein, or the mini, just 100 calories with 6 grams of protein.

RXBar is the proud sponsor of No BS, and they want you to say no to what's holding you back and yes to what fuels your greatness.

Use code GREATNESS on rxbar.com for 25% off.

RXBar, proud sponsor of No BS, subject to full terms and conditions and to change.

Valid until September 30th, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers.

See rxbar.com for full details and limitations.

There's a beautiful story that I love from Jay Williams.

I don't know if you remember Jason Williams, where he did an interview a while back and he talked about how when he played you, I think the first time, or one of the first times he played against you,

he was like, I'm going to show up so early to the court to warm up and practice like before anyone.

And he shows up at the court.

I don't know if it was in LA or where it was, and you were the only one there, already shooting free throws, already doing your fundamentals.

And he goes, I'm going to stay here until Kobe leaves.

And then he was like, gosh, an hour and a half, two hours later.

I got to go.

I'm tired.

And Kobe's still shooting free throws, scoring, like just going over the fundamentals.

And he goes, And then we played that game and you were lights out.

And he came up to you afterwards and said, like, dude, why were you in there for so long?

And how'd you do it?

And he said, this is what he said, you said.

So I knew you were watching, and I wanted to show you that I was willing to outwork you.

Right.

Something along those lines.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if you remember this.

I remember that.

You remember, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And I thought that was so powerful that you have this mindset, but how did you develop that?

And I don't know if that's what you call a mamba mindset, but how did you develop that?

And when did it start?

It started in middle school and high school.

Because a lot of the kids that I was playing against were inner city kids.

And so they're looking at me as as if, okay, this kid's soft.

He's from the suburbs of Philadelphia.

His father played in the NBA, played professionally.

He's got it easy.

Got it easy, born on second, but you know, all this other stuff.

And so they felt like they could try to be physical or try to intimidate me and do all this other stuff, which they couldn't.

But now I'm saying, okay, well, you're trying to attack me.

How am I going to attack you?

How can I mentally figure out ways to break you down?

How can I show you that, no, I have the edge?

Right.

And so that's when it first started for me is figuring out how to get the upper hand on an opponent that way and what would you do to mentally break people down then well I mean you know like

we used to have an all-American camp that I used to go to and you know at the time when I first showed I was a sophomore and

one of the things I would do is everybody would be at the cafeteria work you know eating and doing all sorts of stuff I'd just go back to the gym I just go back to the gym.

They'd be resting.

And they'd see me leave.

Right.

But now you're in a tough position because you're like, okay, I want to be like, I'm following the kid kid to go work out but i know he's working he's up early and he's doing all this other stuff and so that was my way of showing them yeah yeah i may be from the suburbs but you're not going to outwork me wow and i'm mentally gonna

did someone teach you that was that just a thing that you decided like i'm gonna get in people's minds

um i think it's just it's just figuring out ways to to to be better and to win the game.

And it started as a defense mechanism because they were the ones talking trash to me and kid from Italy, blah, blah, blah, and all such stuff.

And it was like, okay, I can't let them, I got to defend myself here, right?

And then it became, okay,

you know, I'm, I'm pretty witty.

I can say some pretty witty things.

Yeah.

And an Italian.

And an Italian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's interesting.

You know, I never was physically gifted to an extreme level.

I was always really good, but I was never like the fastest or biggest or strongest.

But I remember my edge was, I'm not going to go party and I'm not going to drink alcohol.

Right.

So I've never been drunk still because I was like, I need every edge when guys were out partying late at night who are better than me and drinking and showing up hungover.

I was like, I'm going to be more focused and have clearer vision.

And but I wasn't waking up at 4 a.m.

like you.

Well

that's interesting because

when I played

one of the things I had to learn is how to get the best out of my teammates.

Yeah.

And most people think it's a simple thing, you know, passing the ball.

But that's not how you make guys better.

You have to really affect their behavior.

How do you do that?

So, you know, like I would tell guys, you know, we got back-to-backs.

You know, I don't care if we're in Miami, I don't care if we're in a great city or Chicago.

You can't go out.

We got to get rest.

Right?

Back-to-back games.

Back-to-back games, right?

Monday, Tuesday.

You play Monday, you can play again Tuesday.

Guys aren't going to listen, right?

You don't, you know, right.

So a few times, say, all right, we'll all go out.

We'll go out together.

Really?

I'll drink with you.

Right?

But the next morning, I'm banging on your door at five in the morning.

let's go

they're not getting where are we going i hung out with you now you come hang out with me this is what we do all right let's go and you're at the gym we're working out right we hit the bus we go to practice we play that night and they're dead and they're dead they're like lesson learned

lesson learned take them out once listen if you're going to do that do that but don't let that compromise what we're here to do right this is why we're here this is why you're here in the first place yeah right and if we're going to win a championship we have to have that championship mentality work ethic.

That's it.

So you got to show them, no, Cole can do that and still has the energy to get up and do this.

So either I got to meet that same energy or I got to keep my button.

Go to bed early.

Yeah.

Wow.

What are some other things you did to rise the level of your teammates?

What are some other ways that you can

and what do you think people can do in general with the business team or any sports team?

I think

you have to listen and you have to pay attention to

what your colleagues or teammates are saying and what are certain things that drive them, certain things that motivate them, that trigger them?

And

one of my favorite ones, Pal hates it every time I tell this story.

He hates it.

He hates it.

But we lost to the Celtics in 08.

And it was a physical series.

I mean, they beat the crap out of us.

And so we go into the Olympic year that year.

We wound up playing Spain for the gold medal match.

And we beat them.

And so now we come back to start training camp.

And Pal shows up the first day of training camp.

I have my gold medal hanging in his locker.

Oh, no.

And he, I mean, like, the one thing that he truly, truly loves is his country.

Of course.

That is like everything to him.

So it just drove him crazy.

I'm like, pal, listen.

He said, you're an asshole.

He said, listen, pal, you lost to the Celtics.

You lost to us in a gold medal match.

Let's not make this three in a row this year.

Wow.

Let's win this thing.

And that was it for him.

And he probably stepped up at a whole nother level.

Well,

Powell was a phenomenon to begin with.

And then for him, it was just stepping up to a level of physicality that we needed him to get to, which he did.

And we went on to win back-to-back championships.

My man.

How important is understanding human psychology and human behavior to work with a team as opposed to just relying on your gifts and talents?

It's probably the most important thing.

When you're in this culture, in our society, you can do some phenomenal things individually.

but they'll never reach their full potential unless you do them collectively.

And you have to figure out how to do that.

And Phil Jackson was great at that.

Phil,

he wouldn't just coach the team or coach the game, but he'd read everything about every single player.

He'd learn about your history, how you grew up,

how you were raised,

where were you raised.

He'll read every interview and he'll learn about you and gives him a better understanding.

of what's motivating you or what your insecurities are, right?

And then it just helps him communicate with you better or even push a button here if he needs to when did you learn that it was important to understand who your teammates are what their likes or dislikes are was that in high school for you or more no it was uh i learned it from phil there was a stretch um in 03 uh where shaq was out with an injury and phil called me up to his office and said okay we need you to really turn on the afterburners to start scoring them if we have to win.

So I did and I wound up scoring, I think it was nine straight games with 40 plus points.

Nine straight.

Nine straight games.

And then Shaq comes back

second to last game of that.

And then Phil calls me up to his office and says, Coke,

okay, I need you to dial it back.

I'm like,

why?

Like, we're winning one.

I don't understand.

It's because our goal is to win a championship.

And we can get through the Western Conference with you playing this way.

But in the East, you know, we can dominate them inside with Shaq in the post.

But if you continue to do this, we'll lose Shaq.

We'll lose him.

His motivation, his excitement.

What triggers him, right?

So

I need you to pull back so we can pull Shaq forward for June.

Wow.

And I just looked at him like,

this is a smart dude.

Wow.

Yeah.

He's one smart dude, man.

So I pulled it back.

Wow.

Yeah.

What do you think of what's been the greatest challenge you've had since leaving the game?

The greatest challenge.

I think it's you know I mean you've won an Oscar you're you're launching podcasts and shows and you got a book coming out yeah but it's it's it's different though like you know

we were just talking about it here in the office the other day

you know when you play the game You hit a game-winning shot, you miss a shot, the reaction's there.

You can see how people are responding to it, right?

You can feel it.

The energy is is there the energy is there what I do now you don't like I don't see how people are affected by their basketball or you know creating the punies and you put it out there like I wish I could see a car ride of a family the first time their daughter hears Lily's lemonade and what she's doing you know she's singing along to it that's not there right so that's the the challenge that's the one thing that I miss is being able to feed off of the energy the instant feedback that you get from shoot missing or scoring a shot winning or losing a game it's like like either way, you're getting a result, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

That's the one thing.

And I went to, because I spent a lot of time with mentors as well.

I've been at Pixar and Disney Studios.

They've been absolutely wonderful animation, Disney animation.

And I've talked to them about Frozen and Moana and how our kids love them.

And they're always like, oh, that's awesome.

And they want to hear it because they don't ever get a chance to truly see it.

Not sitting in a movie theater.

No, no, and they don't have time to go to Disneyland and walk around the park and see how many families are enjoying the content that they've created because they're busy making the next one.

Creating.

Yes.

Yes.

So that's the one thing.

What do you think the biggest challenge is for most athletes after they retire?

I think it's the fear of starting anew.

And that was certainly present for me as well.

Really?

Yeah.

Like identity, you mean?

Well, it's starting from scratch, right?

Because when you play for 20 years, I play for 20 years, you reach a certain level.

You're like, okay, wait a minute.

I have to start again at the base of a mountain and try to climb the top of this mountain.

First of all, what mountain am I climbing?

I don't even know what the hell am I going to be doing.

It's very, it's very scary.

It's very scary.

Even for you.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the thing that helped me actually was hurting my Achilles because that forced me to sit there and say, okay,

the day could be today

that your career is over.

At any time when you were playing, you mean, yeah.

Now what do you do?

You have these ideas about doing something with your life after basketball.

But but what if today is the day that you that's it now what do you do so I had all this time sitting there my Achilles injury and contemplating and thinking and I said I better get to work

wow that was that what was the vision for you afterwards then was it to do what you're doing now or did you have other ideas or what is what's the vision for you I struggled with it at first because the first question I asked which is the wrong question is what's the biggest industry I can get into was it more money thinking or money thinking saying okay athletes are saying you can't make more revenue when you retire this is your source of your income is here saying okay that's a challenge what can i do

and i remember going for didn't you launch a fund or something i did i did and so i i started i went for a ride and i said okay stop thinking of it that way you're thinking of it the wrong way why'd you start playing basketball because i loved it all right what do you love to do well i love to tell stories

All right, let's do that.

And then that's where it started for me.

And

then on top of that it became things like you know you started learning more about the financial industry and about players going broke once they retire and saying okay how can i

um how can i minimize the chances of that happening what are things that i can do

to invest my money smartly also help control some of that outcome to a certain extent right and that's when i uh called mike rapoli mike rapoli was an entrepreneur who built vitamin water pirates booty and some other companies and started learning from them

Maine, where life the way it should be transforms all who encounter its spectacular landscapes.

Rugged coastlines, pine-scented trails, sandy beaches, sparkling lakes, and tranquil forests inspire you to reflect and make meaningful moments.

They offer endless opportunities for adventure and exploration.

Whether pedaling or paddling, hiking or biking, Maine has more than enough outdoor spaces to make the most of long summer days.

Relish Relish in exquisite flavors harvested from the ocean and the rich soils of orchards and fields.

Maine's makers are rooted in its heritage while boldly branching into new ways of thinking, doing, and being.

Connect with its people in warm and authentic towns, which beckon you to stroll art galleries and locally owned shops, where generations of artists, writers, entrepreneurs, and craftspeople see the world anew.

It's tempting to do it all when you visit, but take a beat and a breath.

Get a feel for the time and tempo of maine simple pleasures scenic adventures where every route is the scenic one discover more at visitmaine.com

you've probably heard me say this before but taking care of your health should be your number one priority what you put in your body directly impacts how you think how you feel and how you show up in the world and whether you're training for a marathon you're running a business or just trying to get through a busy day with energy and clarity nutrition is fundamental and when i feel my body right i perform better period And that's why I'm a big fan of RX Bar.

RX Bar is all about simple ingredients and honest nutrition.

They lead with transparency.

Just look at their packaging.

It says no BS, just real ingredients like egg whites for protein, dates to bind, and nuts for texture.

Whether you're on the go or in between meetings, they've got something that fits.

The original 12 gram protein bar, the nut, butter, and oat bar, soft, crispy, and packed with 10 grams of protein, or the mini, just 100 calories with six grams of protein.

RXBar is the proud sponsor of No BS, and they want you to say no to what's holding you back, and yes to what fuels your greatness.

Use code Greatness on rxbar.com for 25% off.

RXBar, proud sponsor of No BS, subject to full terms and conditions and to change.

Valid until September 30th, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers.

See rxbar.com for full details and limitations.

And then from that came the opportunity to invest in body armor.

Yeah.

And which, yeah, which we're drinking now.

That's delicious.

But all that came from the injury and really having to self-assess and

face that really dark room of what comes next.

Storytelling is something you're really passionate about.

What's a story

over your life that's been a constant theme that you go back to?

Is there something you heard as a kid that really resonates with you or a book or a movie that just feels like this is me?

Yeah, that's funny.

Movies, there are plenty.

But there's a quote from one of my English teachers at Lower Marion named Mr.

Fisk.

He had a great quote that said, rest at the end, not in the middle.

And that's something I always live by.

I'm not going to rest.

I'm going to keep on pushing now.

There are a lot of answers that I don't have.

Even questions that I don't have.

But I'm just going to keep going.

I'm just going to keep going, and I'll figure these things out as you go, right?

And you just continue to build that way.

So I try to live by that all the time.

Rest at the end.

Rest at the end.

What's the question that eats you alive the most that you haven't answered yet?

The question that eats me alive that I haven't answered yet.

You're still looking for the answer.

I'm still looking for the answer.

How to tell a good story.

I don't think

anybody has that answer.

You know, like when I sat down to write dear basketball, I was like, okay, what do I want to say?

And,

you know, you have certain acts in how you can structure certain things, right?

The ebbs and flows of story,

certain formulas that have been there since the beginning of time.

But it's such an inexact sense.

So challenging, yeah.

Right.

And so

that one question is really interesting.

Why do you want to tell a great story?

I think stories is what moves the world.

Whether it's an inspirational story, it's an informational one.

Nothing in this world moves without story.

You know, be it from the political world, sports world, nothing that we have moves without story.

And so I think that is the root of everything.

And if we're going to try to make the world a better place,

stories are the right place to start.

You were the epitome of the tough, strong bodybuilder football guy for a long time.

And you portrayed this image in movies, TV, and all these different things.

Why do you feel like you had that anger inside of you?

And when did you realize that you needed to let it go?

Well, wow, that's a great, great question, man.

You know, for me,

you know, my world was designed around competition.

You know, growing up in Flint, Michigan, it was in the middle when

the auto industry imploded.

You know, I was around 10 years old.

And then the crack epidemic happened at the same time.

So you're talking about a double whammy on a city.

And so it was very violent.

You know, lots of crime, lots of drugs, lots of gangs, lots of

powerlessness is what I like to call it.

People felt powerless.

Especially me.

Okay.

Because you couldn't do anything about it.

You know, one thing that people didn't know or forgot is when around that time in the city, there were these smokestacks around the city.

And what they were doing were burning foreign cars.

Really?

And I remember just seeing, you walk to school and you go across a parking lot in the factory and they'd be burning a car and effigy and throwing rocks at it.

And, you know, we ain't going to have them damn, you know, Toyotas up in here, you know, because it was foreign.

And

it just hit me about how,

you know, the problem

was the city was very resistant to change.

But change is inevitable.

And this is what I was going through.

But it was also about competition.

It was always about, okay, it's got to be me versus this dope man.

man.

It's got to be me versus this gang initiation that they're trying to bring me into.

It's got to be me versus, you know, the

grown men in my neighborhood and in my area that were always challenging me as a young man.

So you had to come up.

And it made me very mad.

Really?

And growing up with an alcoholic father, on top of all that.

Big Terry.

With Big Terry.

You know, I was little Terry.

He was Big Terry.

And, you know, one of my earliest memories is him knocking my mother out.

And I was like, got it, man.

You run the world right now until I do.

I want to tell you now.

How old were you then?

Oh, I was five.

Oh, man.

I was five.

But I have to tell you, I...

One of the things I knew that my desire to get strong and my desire to have power and to be really, really just,

I was obsessed with muscle even as a little kid because I knew one day I might have to kill my father.

Oh my gosh.

He was that dude.

He was just, he was

unending, never bending, just constant intimidation.

You know what I mean?

Like fear, intimidation.

You just didn't, you know, you didn't, you never felt comfortable.

You never felt like he accepted you.

You always felt like something was wrong, you doing it wrong.

You didn't iron your pants enough.

You didn't do something enough.

You didn't clean enough.

You just felt always inadequate.

And that was

the mindset of a lot of men in that culture, in the city at the time I was growing up.

And it wasn't going to let you, they weren't going to let you off easy.

But when you asked them questions, they would never answer.

Why not?

I don't know.

See, that blew my mind.

Because I was like, okay, just tell me what you want.

And they're like, oh, well, one day you're going to find out.

Let me tell you, one day, one one day you'll get it and you're like but i'm 12.

right can you like give me a clue yeah like and man it was i mean it was only after i grew up when i realized that they didn't know

so that was a kind of a cop out

um but it it it made me i had a a vow with my best friend and we were about 13 14 years old because this was such a big problem like his dad would never talk to him.

Really?

And my dad would never talk to me.

And the older adults wouldn't tell you, you know, they would, the only thing they would tell you about is how to be a pimp.

You know, like, man, you want two or three girls, let me tell you how to do it.

You know, this is the game you got to run.

You're like, that's the only thing they would volunteer.

But any of the other life stuff, like, what does this mean?

What does life mean?

What's the true meaning of this?

And you're ain't getting that.

go to church for that.

And the whole concept with a lot of men in that world was that if you scare go to church like you know church was for scare people interesting you know what i mean like no no we're too we're too tough for that you know uh and what was so wild is um

we made a vow and we made a vow me and my best friend that you know we would if you i said if you find out something before i do

promise me that you'll tell me and if i find out anything that you need to know before you do, I'll tell you.

And we literally shook on it.

I'll never forget it.

I'll never forget the day we did it.

Did you guys start telling each other advice?

Yeah, we were just trying to find out stuff like, oh, man, check this out about this is in school and this is this and this is this will this will get you to this level and man we got to start working out and man we got to do this you know because we were just alone yeah i mean this is in the early days of even fitness yeah there was no there were no information on fitness really about how to build your build your muscles really no yeah no we would get i remember ordering the books at the back of comic books where Did you ever get sand kicked in your face?

And you know, and I would get this little book and it had like drawings of people exercising.

And then it had an old exerciser thing that was like a, it looked like a bow, like a bow and arrow.

And then we would just push it together and had a string and you just do that.

It was like primitive.

But we were like eating anything up just to improve our lives.

Yeah.

And

it was a really, the competitive culture created in me this thing.

And when we talk about rage, what we're talking about is an attempt to control things you can't control.

Because what couldn't you control at that time?

Nothing.

Outside, I just looked and it was like I had to do what everyone told me.

And, you know, my father was addicted to alcohol, but my mother was addicted to religion.

And he despised that, you know, because again, it was weak to him.

Um, but she was living in fear, and she was living in fear, and so she's like, Hey, we got to run under the protection of the church.

But it was a basically, that was a Christian cult.

I grew up in a church called the Church of God in Christ,

and it was so, it was what you would call holy roller.

You know, it was a lot of speaking in tongues, and a lot of music, and shouting, and bawling out and people running around and the whole thing.

And

I remember just feeling like I wanted that.

I wanted to be close to that.

Like I said, okay, this is what God is,

but I never felt it.

Like I was going, when is it going to take me?

Because I'd see everybody jumping and running and shouting.

And I was like, and they were like, well, you just got to feel it.

And I was like, but I don't feel it.

And no one would tell me what was going on.

And I mean, no one.

My mother,

people in the church, I would be asking, like, when do you know how this feels?

Like, is it supposed to grab you?

And they were like, oh, if you don't, let me tell you, the day it freaked me out is when my pastor looked at me and he said, if you don't feel nothing, you must not have nothing.

Ooh, man, that's not fair.

I went, what?

So it's like forces you to try to act like you feel something to fit in or belong or.

Oh, yeah.

And now I'm bad.

Oh, man.

And so I learned real quick.

I said, man, you got to have two lives.

You got to be this way in church.

You got to be this.

I mean,

my father and mother fought constantly because of that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

But it was all about, listen, everything that I do now, I couldn't do as a kid.

I couldn't play sports.

I couldn't go to secular movies.

I couldn't listen to secular music.

I couldn't dance.

I couldn't do anything.

When I say nothing, I mean, I remember I was like, what can I I do?

And they were like, sit down and shut up is what you can do.

Wow.

And what I would do is listen to kids at school talk about the movies.

They would talk about all the stuff that they saw and all this stuff.

And I remember going home and drawing what I thought the movie was about.

And that's where my art

ability came.

It was hours of like, like imagining.

what this movie was.

How old were you when you started drawing and being, you know, I was probably

probably six, seven years old, but I remember kids talking about things that I couldn't experience.

Did anyone teach you how to draw?

Because I learned off comic books.

You're so talented in your stuff.

But see, you got to understand.

So you would see it and then you would kind of mimic what you're doing.

Exactly.

Any comic book or anything I saw, I would just try to.

And let me tell you, I had the most frustrating experiences because nothing would look the same.

And it was the desire for me to make things extremely real.

And I wanted it to really come to life.

And what would happen is I would be satisfied with the drawing, like, oh man, this is good.

And then I go to bed and wake up and it would look bad again.

And you're talking about this for a young kid.

And then it just continued where this drive and this whole thing because it had to look better than this.

And it's got to look better than yours.

When you're talking about a world of competition,

it created this excuse for your age.

You know what I mean?

It created.

And now, I'm going to tell you, man,

what happened for me, and especially once I hit my teen years, I started living my life like I was in a revenge movie.

Trying to get back at everyone, everything, the world, your dad.

Remember the vow I made with my best friend?

I made a lot of vows.

And I vowed.

that I was going to get every person who ever doubted me,

whoever

insulted me whoever

made me feel slightly uncomfortable i was going to get you back wow and i was going to show you now let me tell you something that

is a recipe for tremendous success

you understand what i mean like people expect you oh no it's going to no and also a lack of fulfillment, a lack of joy, a lack of peace inside of you.

Now.

Because I was so similar.

i wanted to prove everyone wrong and i accomplished all these goals and i was like but why am i still unfulfilled and angry you listen you why am i so angry you get a lot done a lot and you're obsessed extra energy you know what i mean because i'm like i was really out yeah you gotta understand man i would go in i remember

I would do this stuff where I would go work out and then I would work out until I couldn't move and then I would rest up and then I would go and I would flex my muscles until they cramped And I would force my muscles into cramps.

Now it was, it was sadistic.

It was masochistic.

But I said, no one, I want this.

Like, I will never stop doing sit-ups.

I will never stop.

I would, you know, again, I sit-ups and push-ups until my stomach till I was curled over in tears.

Oh, my God.

And then I'd go do more.

Because I said, no one's going to beat me.

Wow.

Never, ever.

ever beat me.

And listen, understand this, man.

You know what's so crazy?

I didn't even like football.

Really?

Didn't like it at all.

But it was my way out of Flint.

It was also my way to code black.

And this is what I mean.

To code what?

Code black.

Meaning in the black culture, sports coded like

hardcore.

And it was the way the drug dealers, the gang members, Everybody would leave you alone if they knew you were an athlete.

Why is that?

Because they said he's this man he might go somewhere

he might do something he might be because you gotta understand walking to school

here they come i had to fight my way into school because it was like who you think you are who you okay oh mr smart you smart now huh and you're like man i'm this why you talk so white

all right so what i did i i remember developing a whole nother personality when i was out in the street ah man what's up man ah you know i don't even,

you know me, yeah, boy.

Right.

And I would mimic that

just so I couldn't.

Yeah.

You wouldn't get, you, you, you have ideas, you had I, you had goals, you had things you wanted, and all of a sudden you knew you didn't dumb down.

Wow.

They were like, wait, man, who you, who, who you think you are?

Remember, everything's a competition.

Yeah.

So you think you're smarter than me?

No, man.

No, I'm just...

But here I was, this artist drawing, really trying to excel, had ideas, I had visions, being a creative person.

You play music, too, right?

Yeah, I was a flautist.

It's crazy.

Listen, I hit that.

I was able to do that in church.

Wow.

But see, this is another thing about the religion thing, which was nuts, is that, you know,

Here I was just, you know, I was a pleaser.

I became a pleaser.

It was like, all right, please my mom, whatever, please the alcoholic dad, whatever you want.

You want, here's another beer, whatever.

And my mother was, what I decided was I was going to be the best, you know, kid in the church.

But then my church was a cult.

It was crazy.

Because a lot of it didn't make any sense.

And it really hit the fan when my pastor, you know, we found out my pastor was selling drugs and using drugs out of the pulpit.

He had several girlfriends in the church.

I mean, everything imploded, you know, and everyone thought this guy who was so upstanding,

you know,

because this thing, even with religion, is that, you know, everybody starts out with great intentions, you know.

And then power and success and money and people praising you.

You got to learn to really stay humble in the face of success or fame.

Exactly.

How have you managed that?

I mean,

for a long time, I didn't.

Really?

I'm just reinvaling.

You know, there's two Terry Cruises and there's two experiences.

You know, the competitive Terry Cruise was not humble.

The competitive Terry Cruz would look humble so that you could be lulled into sleep so that I could destroy you.

Wow.

I'm just telling you, man.

When was this up until?

Oh, my God.

I mean, we're talking.

2010.

Okay.

Wow.

You know?

And I was intense, dude, man.

You got to understand.

I knew, I said, this is how I work.

You were intense or still.

I'm still intense.

But I'm at a different level of intense way.

You know, my thing was, man,

I knew how to manipulate.

Really?

What was the strategy?

Well, I would look at whatever scene it was and what the rules were.

And I knew how to play the game.

Wow.

But it was always to beat people.

Do you want them to be number one or to get a little bit better than.

Always.

I mean, it got me to the NFL.

Of course.

I mean, dude, it goes a long way.

Like I said, I didn't even like football.

But that way of life, the NFL is like, come here.

We like you.

You know what I mean?

Oh,

you're going to be good.

You know, they say the phrase I heard before is that,

you know, the best soldiers know how to.

check their morality like to decide like keep it away because you're a good soldier.

Don't think about what's right or wrong.

Don't really get that out

of your sight.

What's good and bad.

And now, yeah, now you can do whatever we need.

And

I determined that I was going to be that dude.

Like, whatever it took.

And you got to understand

is that this kind of mindset is very rewarded.

Of course.

It's very, you know, I was tough.

I was,

you know, and this rage, but also I could turn it on to the point where I could beat people up.

Like,

I could start, I started to defend myself.

You know, I got from being a little kid to being a big teenager to being, to, you know, what they say, he's got a little neck.

You know what I mean?

Like when you get some traps and you get, they're like, whoa, okay.

Gang members think twice.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

They're like, all right, because again, everything's a challenge, man.

Yeah.

To an exhausting level.

Was there ever a point where

you felt like you were strong enough and big enough to beat up your dad?

Well, I did.

How old were you?

I was 30 years old.

Really?

I

got to understand the context of what happened.

My father.

You know, I was already, I just started my acting career and I just got a show.

It was a TV show called Battle Dome.

And I retired from the NFL.

And again, I was around 29, 30 years.

No, I was 30 years old.

So

I took my family home for Christmas and I told my father

back to Flint from LA and I told my father, do not act up, man.

Because this is the thing about holidays for alcoholics.

Oh man, it's the worst, man.

I mean, they go right back.

It's all the bad memories and they need to placate and they need to medicate with alcohol.

And I said, man, look, my kids have never seen this.

My kids never came up in this.

And at the time, I had three girls.

And I said, dude, do not act up, okay?

And he said, no, I ain't going to do nothing, man.

Ain't nothing wrong with you.

I don't know what you're talking about.

So I take him home and me and we all over there.

Everything's going fine.

My wife and I are headed to Detroit to hang out with some friends.

So it's about a 45-minute drive.

We're about 10 minutes into the drive.

And I get this call.

from my aunt.

And she's like, Terry, your father hit your mother.

Oh, I said, what?

Oh, man.

And what happened, he knocked her tooth sideways.

Like it was hanging out of her mouth.

And I mean, he hit her right in the mouth.

Oh, man.

And then I found out, Lewis, he did it in front of my kids.

Oh, no.

And they were all privy to this.

Something that I've been.

Your trigger went in deep.

I said, take the kids

over to aunt's house.

I said, just leave them there.

I dropped my wife off.

I drove over the house and I'm looking at him and I met with him.

I'm like, hey, dude, didn't I tell you?

And he was like, oh, well, let you.

And I mean, let me tell you something, man.

I don't know how long the beating happened.

Oh, my gosh.

I don't know.

Because you black out.

I black out.

And when you get to that level of rage, I know that feeling.

You don't feel anything.

You don't think anything.

It's a.

You know what?

Even.

ooh, I'm getting, it's, it's,

just thinking about it,

it was so like,

because all I could remember was being like five years old

and feeling so weak and powerless as he was doing this to my mother.

And we just had to take it.

I was, I was like, I can't.

What can I do?

Right.

He's a giant.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I can't do anything.

And

man, now I'm 30 years old.

You're big.

You're strong.

Post-NFL.

I've never had an injury.

I'm ready to go.

And you've got 30 years of pent-up rage.

30 years.

Resentment.

And I beat his

all over that house.

Wow.

And Lewis, let me tell you, man, I felt nothing.

At the end, I thought this was it.

I thought.

This is the revenge I've been waiting for.

I told you not to do it.

This is it.

Now

you're going to get everything for

all Terry Cruz.

It's going to blast you.

And when I was done, I remember I beat him from the bottom, all the way, bottom of the house, all the way up to his room because he was trying to run from me.

And he was trying, he ran into his room, and I busted the door down, man, and still kept beating him.

Right?

He's on the ground in tears, bleeding, tears, the whole thing.

now I'm sitting on this bed

just looking at my hands and I'm like

I'm just like you

it didn't work

it didn't work man right it was supposed to work what were you hoping to feel

I mean release like There it is.

I said it right.

You're supposed to feel justice.

You're supposed to feel like this is this.

Now, the score has been settled.

And when I say living life like a revenge movie, I mean it.

But you gotta understand that stuff is better than sex.

Right.

You look at a movie like that, you're like, man, yes, get them values one at a time.

Like, yes.

And here I was, I was living it.

I was like, this is man on fire live.

You know what I'm saying?

This is like get back city.

This is the payback.

And I was like, nothing.

Nothing.

And I was like,

I'm done.

And I left.

And I never went home for 10 years.

Really?

10 years.

And my mom went right back to him.

Didn't change any of the home situation.

Didn't fix not one thing.

And I was,

I just remember going through all these issues.

all the stuff like, oh my God, like

I lost it, man and I couldn't go home I couldn't even deal with it and

that was the the thing that I said that rage it was uncontrollable

but I took it out on other people right and I and I never like even though I didn't beat him up again and didn't go back home That rage was still inside.

And I was doing that to various people in the street.

There's a long list of people who've been knocked out by me.

And what's so crazy is that a lot of people go, oh no, Terry, no,

you're funny and you're so nice.

My wife will be like, he's following me even though I had no idea.

He wasn't so nice back then.

Yeah, because I could flip.

Of course.

Oh, no, you have to understand, you know, being two people

and learning how to manipulate and move, you know, that's why it would shock everybody.

Right.

Because you could be the lovable, fun, energetic, passionate guy, but if there was a wound that was being triggered,

the other terry came out it would be a nuclear bomb yeah i hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad-free listening then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on apple podcasts share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.

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And I want to remind you: if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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