Gene Simmons Opens Up: Coming To America With Nothing, The Mindset That Built An Empire & The Man Behind The Makeup

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And I heard an interesting story or a very powerful story that

of when you're, when you and your mother were trying to get to America and trying to come here and

migrate to America.

What was the lesson you learned from your mom and the courage to get over?

My father had gone, so the provider was no longer there because my mother stayed at home while he worked so once my father left my mother was forced to go out there and you know uh while i went to school so when i'd come home from school at three four whatever it is in the afternoon i was alone at six seven years of age and

you know would cry myself to sleep because my mother would work until late at night, six days out of the week.

There was no such thing as five days,

two days off.

And in Israel, it's the Sabbath, Saturday that you take off.

Sunday, you go right back to work from 6 a.m.

until

7, 7.30 p.m.

And

so

both of my mother's brothers became successful in America.

They already came to America.

Yes, right before World War II.

My mother and my father went to Israel in 1949,

and both brothers had already started working in America.

And the stories I could tell you about my Uncle George, until the day he passed, he loved wonder bread.

In those days, you could, for 29 cents, you could buy a whole loaf.

He would buy a whole loaf with water and sit in a park bench in Central Park.

And to him, it was like eating cake from kings.

He would just eat the bread and drink water because you didn't have it in Europe.

There was barely any the fact that he could eat an entire loaf of bread by himself and nobody would kill him to get a slice of bread

was beyond anything because Europe never really recovered from the 1929 stock market crash.

People were killing each other all the time and in concentration camps.

If you had a loaf of bread, they'd kill you for that.

It's a different world in America, the land of plenty.

Even during World War II, people ate, you know, we grew wheat.

So

her brothers were already here

and successful.

And successful.

So they said, hey, you come over and stay with us?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

And was it that easy to kind of, you know, leave the country at that time?

So

when my mother came to America, she had to work, you know, the whole time.

And I was...

I remember going into my Uncle Larry's house, and they had their own house with a basement and stuff.

I mean I just couldn't and you'd look out the door and there were paved streets and cars going everywhere and people were fat and I never saw a refrigerator.

I mean we had an ice, we had a box and if you had a piece of ice it stuck it in there so you can have milk.

By the way, not branded, they'd give you a sheet of newspaper and your week's piece of meat and your week's butter and your but that it was a new country.

There was nothing.

There were no stores.

People can't fathom that.

I remember all that.

And I remember

just everything was new.

You know, you have branding cups and

canned food.

I never saw canned food

until I got our first, until we got our first care package from the UN.

And we opened up the box and there was a...

I get choked up when I.

And there was a can of peaches.

And I never saw a can.

I I know people are going to think, well, he's exaggerating.

No, I never saw a can of food.

There were no supermarkets or grocery stores.

Nothing.

You lived in hills.

And I remember taking the can, and there were a full color picture of peaches dripping, you know, with stuff.

And I remember at about seven years of age looking at it, and my mother

you know, saw grabbed that out of my hand and she took a big rock.

There's no such thing as can openers.

And she put it on the

and

you know, banged into it and then peeled back, you know, the metal

so the sharp stuff was going there.

And she gave it into my hands, and my little hands grabbed it.

I looked and saw the yellow peaches inside.

And my mother said, you know, in Hungarian, because I spoke Hungarian, Hebrew, Turkish, Spanish, and those stuff.

And

I remember tasting it, and I

sorry, I'm getting a little feclimped here.

Never tasted anything.

I still taste it.

Never tasted anything so sweet or anything.

And I wanted to show my mother and she was like, we were just amazed at this thing.

And

the fact that this, and it also had a Bugs Bunny book.

colored with he's going down the road and all that.

I didn't never heard of Bugs Bunny and a sweater that was all torn.

My mother put it on me and it was all, you know, too big, but it was colorful and all that.

And my mother would read me the same Bugs Bunny book every night, but she had to make up the words in Hungarian because she couldn't speak

Hebrew and the words were in English.

So she'd make it up.

And I'd just look at the pictures and I'd go to sleep with that.

And

as a matter of fact, Mel Blank, a Jew who did all the voices for all the Warren See what happens, who did all the voices, the Daffy Duck and Mel, you know all that elmer fudd told him the story and he said that that is

that's one of the reasons why i wanted to do these voices for the children whose lives it changed

and

it's which is why

as soon as i got some money i i made sure that

took a bunch of money and send it to kids in need originally through the Christian Child Fund and then became the child fund and I to this day support 1400 kids in Africa

who if they don't go to school won't get clothes and won't get fed that means you'll starve because there's nothing there Zambia

you come to school you get fed and stuff so it teaches you that school has it so I got lost and what was the question

well really about like your experience when you got to America you never saw anything like this before you never experienced the taste the foods the refrigerator, all these things.

I was in the kitchen with my aunt Magda, who herself survived the camps and had some problems.

And she married my uncle Larry, who was my mother's brother.

And we go into the kitchen because there was always another room.

There were bedrooms, like a palace.

You can't believe it.

And there's this big white

box or something and a metal thing.

And my Aunt Magda opened it.

And I was, you know, I was a little kid.

I never saw anything like it.

And it's just food.

There's wrappers and food and cheese and things.

And on the side, I'll never forget it.

My Aunt Magda, I was attracted to the red because it was a jar of red.

I later remembered it was Schmucker's.

With a name like that, it's got to be good.

Yep.

It was Schmucker's jelly.

Out of Ohio.

And my mother said to me in Hungarian, you know, have some.

And my Aunt Magda opened the camp.

I'd never seen that before.

You don't understand.

In Israel, they'd give you a slab of whatever, butter, never jelly.

And that would be it for the week.

You'd have to make it.

There was no refrigeration or anything.

So

my Aunt Magda gave me a spoon.

And in broken Hebrew, she must have said, taste it,

because she was fascinated that I

wasn't quite sure what it was.

I'm only halting because if you weren't here,

I'd start bawling.

And I thought she said, eat it, because she gave me a spoon.

So

I started like a Christmas goose.

I just started

my mouth full of jam with the jam falling all over, you know, just eating it because I never tasted anything like that, the entire jar.

And both my mother and my Aunt Magda were laughing so much, you know, they were in tears.

And I didn't know what was going on.

I just said, this is the best thing I ever had.

And America just kept.

And then I was afraid of crossing.

I still have the marbles.

I was afraid of crossing the street because cars were going by.

You know, people crossing.

I didn't understand it.

So I walked around the block and I saw other houses next to each other.

I said, this is like,

where are all these houses?

Everybody's rich.

Yeah, everybody's rich.

And I went to the other side of the street, and then I had to come back and went a little further, then eventually went around.

I thought if I went around, I'd get lost.

I didn't know that came around to this.

I know it sounds

on the other side, eventually, I saw some guys playing marbles.

on the grass, which would be, I don't know if you have a marble or something.

And they're throwing it like this.

It's not what we did in Israel.

You stood up on two legs and you went like that.

And you get really good because you can aim it on the ground.

If you do the marbles like that, you know, the ground would make the marble not a thing.

And what are you stupid?

Can't you speak English?

Yeah.

Hello, I don't know.

God is an idiot.

I play, I play.

They go, yeah, here.

They gave me a marble or two.

I won all their marbles.

They didn't last for long.

Yeah.

I still have all the marbles I want, about 80 of them

in an old Dutch master's cigar box.

That's cool.

To remind me, don't ever take shit from anybody.

Just roll up your sleeves and go to work.

Wow.

Make them work for you.

How did that make you feel, though, when you didn't speak the language, you didn't have any friends?

When you came to America, you're in this new world.

How did that make you feel?

Were you more excited or more scared?

I've never been scared, not after my mother survived Nazi Germany, but I've always felt like an outsider.

I still don't feel like an outsider.

Maybe that's okay.

Maybe

I want to be like everybody else.

I want to be an ordinary guy.

No, I don't want to be an ordinary guy.

I want to be an extraordinary guy.

I want to excel at anything that I try to do, and I'm willing to work harder than you do.

And the only thing that prevented me from getting into sports and everything else is because the pragmatism in me tells me that you've got a short life.

When you enter sports or things like that, if you get an ankle,

you're done.

But I can be a banker or a lawyer or a teacher or thing forever.

It made more sense and therefore more dollars.

Yes, if you're lucky, because every kid in every poor neighborhood wants to be the baseball player or the football player and stuff like that, because 50 million Carmelo Anthony made, and for a while I worked with Carmelo.

They make all this money.

You don't see the tens of of thousands and millions of carcasses on the side of the road that wanted to

put all their eggs in one basket and achieve nothing.

You only see, you know, the tip of the ice.

Yeah.

Yeah, the winners.

Oh, that means anybody can do it.

That's a fallacy.

So when did music start to come into your life?

Because I heard a story that you saw the Beatles on TV when you were 13.

Was music something you were interested in before then?

Or did that open your mind to a world of, oh, dreaming that maybe I could be this one day?

I didn't put the

two and two equals four thing together.

I was more an observer on life because in America, there were so many attention deficit disorders.

There were so many different things going by.

There was sports and things and television and radio and all that stuff going by.

And so I worked.

And when I was about 13, I came home.

Yes, I worked on Sundays.

And Sunday nights, nights, I'm pretty sure it was the Ed Sullivan Show.

Unlike any show that's ever been on TV, at that time, in 1963, 64, population of America was 170 million people, about that.

Now it's double that.

It's 330 million.

And the Ed Sullivan show was so big, they had pooping elephants and comedians and puppet guys and, you know, one rock band for the kids.

And I remember coming home from work, and my mother got one of those TV dinners.

People have no idea what that is, but you buy them frozen because poor mom had to go work.

She couldn't.

And it was like this

kind of like old shoes crunched into like burgers, peas, and some mashed potatoes, and you pour the gravy, and that was it.

And I didn't know anything.

I liked it.

So I was eating it, and ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles.

And I'm going,

what is that?

And by the way, I've met the biggest stars in the world, especially musicians.

They all point to that pivotal moment.

Scientists call it a singularity.

All of a sudden, these feminine-looking guys with hair over their ears, because in those days,

even shorter than your hair, you'd see the meat between the ear and the hairline above it, or like crew cuts.

And these guys

talk like that.

You know, I work my fingers to the bell and all that.

Like,

what is that?

And they're small compared to Ed Sullivan and everything.

You know, kind of feminine in a way, because Americans were bigger and

fatter and stuff.

And these guys were all, you know, like bone thin and spoke strangely.

I didn't understand.

I was watching and I thought, gee, they look weird.

And I remember my mother coming in and saying, gee, I think they look weird.

And bango, at that moment, I said, no, they're cool.

Because my mother thinks they're weird.

You want your own thing.

You don't want to do Lawrence Welk.

You never heard of Lawrence Welk?

Oh, my God.

Kill me now.

Oh, man.

Lawrence Welk was on every Sunday, and it was mom and dad music.

Okay.

Gotcha.

Boy.

And now we're going to do the polka.

Yeah.

So it says your mom said it was weird, and you were like, that's cool then.

Right.

Uh-huh.

and it's it's different and different is is better than good yeah different is good but you were i mean you're a branding and marketing genius when it comes with that's like word genius is not right i've been careful so i i win well you've been a branding and marketing master at studying and executing

yeah at studying and executing how to brand yourself i mean your book me ink you built a personal brand before personal branding was a thing you studied how to be unique and different from seeing the Beatles and other people, I'm assuming.

Well, more specifically, how to be Disney without the overhead.

But it's not as difficult as people think it is because, unlike other countries, all information is available for free to anyone who wants to put in the time.

And it was called, it's the House of God, otherwise known as the Library.

Don't forget that second R in the middle.

It's not library.

It's library.

And I used to go to the library every day after yeshiva.

I was setting to be a rabbi, but then I discovered girls.

So I was in school, yeshiva, which means the sitting, the whole day.

And afterwards, I'd go to the library, which was only a few blocks down.

And I'm the only guy I've ever met or talked to who's actually read the Encyclopædia Britannica.

Covered a couple.

I am the corniest, most boring guy at a party.

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When did you feel like you were able to really monetize the artistic gift that you were developing?

I take it more either in the country, globally.

Like, when did that start to happen?

You said, oh, this is more than just weekend parties.

And

in 19,

even during college, I went to the state university upstate New York, took out my own bank loan, paid for it myself and all that.

So afternoons I'd be the lifeguard at the Pines Hotel up in the Catskill Mountains, otherwise called the Jewish Mountains, literally, because every weekend you'd have Jay Lewis there and like all these guys, Milton Burrell.

And

so I worked right after I'd finished classes and I'd go make some more money.

And on the weekends, the Wicked, not Wicked Lester, but what was it called?

Bullfrog Beer.

That was the college band.

And we played covers and some of my original songs, which by then I learned how to write my own songs.

Not very good.

Two of them or so wound up being kiss songs.

And during one weekend, I'd make more money.

with the band

having fun with the chicks and the attention and all that than I went the whole week working.

It started to make more financial sense.

Yes, and more fun.

And then I graduated in 1972 from the city university at Richmond College and started teaching sixth grade in Spanish Harlem.

Segway to being the assistant to the editor of Vogue magazine,

assistant to the director of the Puerto Rican Interagency Council, a government-funded research and demonstration project, where I saved $23,000 by the time I was 23 years of age.

I lived at home.

Makes more sense.

You want to meet a Jacob?

Go to the holiday inn.

Otherwise, save your money.

Yeah.

Save your money.

Lived at home when I didn't need to spend money, but of course I contributed a little bit.

And

I met another guy

who shared the love of English music, which is really American music anglicized.

We were anglophiles, the Beatles and the Stones and Zeppelin and, you know, all that,

and

made our own pastiche, our own thing, like they did their own thing of American music.

And by 19...

1973,

we got signed to Casablanca Records, a new record label.

How old were you

this time, roughly?

Just after calling?

193.

Okay.

22.

And this wasn't, was this called KISS at the time or no?

Yes, it was, we became KISS.

And you're doing, you got signed, but how big were the venues where you were playing before you got signed?

We played KISS.

Hunt people.

From nothing to everything.

Really?

Yes.

We played New Year's Eve fourth on the bill at the Academy of Music in New York City, 1973-74.

And And two months after that, the first album came out.

We were fourth on the bill, Kiss, Teenage Lust, which was a local band, Iggy Pop, and Blue Oyster Cult.

And on the first, by the third song, I'm Spitting Fire.

If we're in full makeup, My Hair Catches Fire, and we're on the covers of all the magazines and everything.

New band out of it from Hellfire, and you know, all this kind of stuff.

I was just glad to be alive.

But within a year and a half of coming out

before MTV, before cell phones, we had still rotary calls.

Superman was still going into that booth and changing.

Of course, people can't see him taking off his pants because he's in a phone booth.

While all this was happening, within a year and a half, we're headlining Anaheim Stadium in Los Angeles.

Wow.

Yeah.

Just that overnight thing.

We have no hit singles, nothing.

Really?

Yes.

It became what what the Germans called zeitgeist, the water cooler conversation.

The way you spread your brand in those days were rock magazines, circus and raves, and all these colorful magazines that had posters.

And we were always on the cover because the rest of the band is just.

Boring.

Yeah, they're not visual.

So our brand

and people, you know, the fans, we started selling out multiple days in arenas before we even had a gold record and just asked backwards so you guys developed the brand almost before you developed the music that's right it's like the you were like let's create the image of us let's create the persona let's you're giving us too much credit we didn't know anything

you weren't thinking about it no but that's what happened you were just rock and roll gypsies right you were glad you didn't have to do nine to five right and be in the same cubicle doing the same thing that's interesting did you intentionally think about let's be so different so that people pay attention?

Or were you just like, let's have fun and just be playful?

Or how did this character develop?

None of that.

Scientists either call it a singularity or an anomaly.

We were rehearsing doing these songs that Paul Stanley and I wrote Stanley Eisen

or Eisenberger.

And I started writing, and then Ace Fraley contributed a song or two.

And

as we're heard, you know, this kind of sounds pretty good.

And we had Peter Chris on drums and everybody could sing, everybody could play.

And then instead of doing

a market analysis or anything, I recall clearly, because I never got higher drunk, one of us, and I can't tell you who, said, let's go down to Woolworths, which was like a department stop.

And it was around Halloween, I believe, and they had a lot of gimmicky things like plastic ice cubes with fake flies in the middle that you could stick in your girlfriend's drinks.

Yeah, you know, or whoopee cushions.

You know what a whoopie cushion is?

Yeah, yeah.

Sit on it and

we went down there and said, Let's buy clown makeup.

And we literally, almost like our hands were being directed, bought Stein's clown white, Stein's clown black, black stick.

Paul bought red lipstick, a few other things, and we went up to the rat-infested loft where we rehearsed and found ourselves hypnotically looking in the mirror and putting on makeup without anybody

telling anybody what to do or what to think or do.

It just happened.

It sounds suspicious.

And then when we looked around the room, we were fascinated by, wow, that kind of

looks cool.

Kind of of looks different.

Yeah, different, kind of cool.

So much so that, and because I'm

kind of a make a list, check it twice, find out I'm that kind of a guy, worked in offices all my life.

There was no manager.

So I was calling local gigs,

clubs to try to get us and booked ourselves in for, I don't know, $35 a night.

to Coventry.

And there was nobody there.

We had my girlfriend, somebody else.

There There was like five people.

Five people, yeah, yeah.

But for us,

we were at Madison Square Garden.

And then the second show was at The Daisy

in Amityville, where they had Jaws and all that, and the Amityville Horror and all that

in Long Island.

And shortly thereafter, we got signed.

We barely played any shows.

That's crazy to think of it.

And then a year and a half later, you're selling out arenas.

Breaking so much so that within two years of that, we're breaking the Beatles record in Japan and playing five days, I think, at the largest arena, Budokan.

And before bands were playing stadiums, we're doing multiple days in Australia in stadiums.

1980, 1980.

Where do you think you'd be if you guys didn't put makeup on that first day?

You mean if I wasn't in a band or would kiss have done as well without the makeup without the makeup like if you guys didn't go to that store and say hey let's start putting a makeup on where do you think the band would be if you never did it like that but you just said we're gonna go out there and play and wear cool you know jeans and look like rock stars but not put on the makeup or the yeah jeans is so boring um

like if i'd have to if i'd have to say

not as big really you could ask the Beatles what would you have gotten as far with the same songs and everything if you didn't have the matching haircuts

hmm

it's always

pieces of the puzzle that somehow fit that make the whole bigger than the sum of its parts which are fancy words that say

All of it helps.

It did, yeah.

And if you take like a house of cards, if you take any one of those, it's just one card, maybe all of it comes down.

Interesting.

It's so interesting to think about.

I paid a lot of money for this kind of stuff.

Yeah, that's fascinating.

I'm kind of a big deal.

I know.

I know you are.

Now,

when did you,

was there ever a moment in your career where you said early on, where you said, I'm actually going to use this.

This is working.

You know, wearing the makeup, putting on the outfits in this way, it's working.

I'm going to make it a character.

I'm going to make it an alter ego.

or

I was always aware that character was not the right thing it's persona persona not alter ego or alter egos and by the way and I know people get so upset when I keep bringing up the Jew stuff but the idea of the alter ego was created by them also okay all the superheroes Superman, yes, Batman, the Hulk, fantastic, were all created by Jews who dress British, think Yiddish.

The idea of the the weak man

and the secret superman.

They're Übermensch.

Well, that's Nietzsche.

And all created by disenfranchised people who never felt powerful.

So the superhero was created by those guys who were never lifting weights, couldn't dribble a basketball, but they owned the teams.

Yeah, or they built the IP or whatever it might be.

So did you think about building the persona or the alter ego as you were developing the band then?

No, it happened very quickly, and you react to market.

The smart people react to the market.

And immediately, we didn't think about it, but fans started to make homegrown t-shirts.

Oh, they want t-shirts.

Let's make t-shirts.

And they wanted...

We were aware that if you were a,

I don't know, a Joe Cocker fan or somebody.

You didn't necessarily want to look like Joe Cocker.

And Joe's a fantastic artist.

It was music.

And somehow

we didn't plan it.

We want to be unique and all that's true, but we didn't quite understand the cultural significance of the idea that you

may not be able to be in KISS,

but you can feel like it.

How many more tennis rackets did we sell because people bought those and put on KISS makeup and pretended when they were 13 that they were in a band?

Because just as soon as you, and I'll show you photos of

Lenny Kravitz when he was 13, they're like, oh, down the line, he's people going, what?

He was kicked out of school for at 13 coming to school dressed like that.

That's interesting.

But you wouldn't be kicked out of school for coming coming to school dressed like George Harrison.

Right, right.

Yeah.

But that's not cool.

No, it is cool, but it doesn't

get.

There's nothing negative I can say about the Beatles, but

market research.

Market research is a strange thing.

It makes assessments based on the way things actually are.

Yeah.

So Mount Rushmore, you've heard of it.

Could you tell me who the four faces are?

Yes.

I've been there.

I mean,

you've been there and you still don't know.

Washington.

Yeah.

It bears noting that market research says the four Kiss faces are more well known on the entire planet than Mount Rushmore.

That's great.

That's great.

You can go to Africa and as soon as they see one of the four faces, they say it's Kiss.

If you showed them one of Mount Rushmore's faces, they wouldn't know what it was.

Yeah, yeah.

That's astonishing, isn't it?

It is

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Did you feel like you were becoming a different person when you would step on stage in that persona?

And what did that feeling,

what was that feeling experience like for you on stage in that persona versus the Gene Simmons in life off stage?

I was a

regular normal guy with regular appetites and you know nothing out of the ordinary and never veered towards self-destructive behavior.

Never.

I'm curious about how you

started to brand yourself even bigger because KISS became something much bigger than a band.

After the first few years, it was big, obviously, but for decades, you elevated it to...

I can't say you.

It's not fair to Paul.

The band elevated itself to another level.

Because sometimes, of course, an idea will come from left field and they go, why don't you?

Yeah, you know, you're right.

We should be doing it.

so no matter who you are

how did you how did you all decide to continue to elevate the brand or or maximize especially

in light of the fact that times change tastes change and different generations come into it cool is a moving target yeah so i give ourselves kudos

to be able to be flexible and move around and do that stuff as

hair metal bands came in, thrash came in, new romance came, like all through all the different

things.

So, we started co-branding

like Hello Kitty.

It's one of the largest brands on the planet for young girls, for little girls.

So, Kiss Hello Kitty had about 1,500 co-licenses, everything

from

training bras

to

tissue paper to potato chips, you name it.

And then we co-branded with

Family Guy and

Archie.

We had Kiss Archie Comics and

Astro Boy from Japan and just a lot of what was the biggest licensing deal that Kiss did?

KISS.

Beyond the band, what was the biggest co-branded or licensing deal?

Co-branded or deal beyond KISS.

Oh kitty would probably really biggest yeah because we were

endless

and then they changed ceos actually the ceo

um flew into la and we had dinner and he and i are sitting next to each other and we're talking about the future okay we're going to ramp up this clearly working and everything and he said as soon as i get back to japan on monday It was the weekend coming up.

I'm going to draw papers and we're going to do some big, big, big stuff.

And then he passed away.

And the new CEO just, you know, didn't see it.

Oh, that's a bummer.

Where is the the biggest revenue come from these days then with the brand?

Is it licensing?

Is it still royalties?

Is it still music?

All of it

music less

because entire generations of fans don't pay for music.

They download and foster.

Both of our kids, Nick and Sophie, are massive on spotify and schmotify and all the other childlike

words yahoo

google

and

uh sophie for instance is uh managers co-writes

she's writing us co-writing a song right now with um

the writer who wrote do you believe in love at the love you know for sure uh-huh what a small world yeah it just

and

no small world that's that's a disneyland it's a what it's a small world that's a disneyland

it's a small world after all as a matter of fact i recorded when you wish upon a star for my solo record because of how emotionally jiminy cricket affected my life i thought when that little insect in the movie goes gene When you wish upon, I thought he was singing to me.

I was 12.

Wow.

I went out there like in a religious epiphany.

I can do great things because, Jiminy, your dreams come true.

I can do it.

And that's why I like, if you're not a bad guy, that's why I like guys like you, because sometimes someplace in Wisconsin, there's somebody who can, who's...

who possibly might do great things and the only thing holding himself back is himself.

And if you can just light that little fire in the belly that, you know, that

puts the light on, they'll do amazing things.

Yeah.

Did you ever doubt yourself?

No.

Really?

I couldn't afford it.

So you never had any insecurity or self-doubt?

Oh, hell no.

But I'm delusional.

I'm aware of it.

I know that I'm not the best looking guy in the world or the smartest or anything, but I will walk into any room and I will walk out with your girlfriend.

There's no doubt in my mind.

And part and parcel of that has to do with a mindset that's really important that I was only able to recognize many years later.

You're a

tightrope walker.

And various ideas and ideals can come into your mind before you walk that tightrope.

You might say,

A lot of people who try to walk this tightrope, there's a decent chance that like, oh,

and

you're hearing and thinking what you're saying.

So all the negativity is contributing to the chances of you failing.

And what do all great champions do?

They psych themselves up.

I'm going to get out there and I'm going to do that.

And who's listening?

You are listening.

I'm going to win it.

I am the champion.

I am the greatest.

I heard Muhammad Ali doing that, Cassius Clay at that point.

I still think it's a cooler name.

I never heard a human being talk like that publicly.

I am the greatest.

I'll sting like a butterfly.

Like, who is this guy?

Actually, he was stating fact.

It's our problem that we thought, well, you're not supposed to say that.

Why not?

Why not set greatness in front of you?

and then work towards achieving it.

Yeah, that's true.

So I've spent time with Mike Tyson, and I hope he considers me a friend.

I consider him a friend.

And when you listen to Mike's story, there's no logical reason in the world why he would become the most dangerous man who's ever been in the ring.

Nobody.

Yes, I know foreman and

everybody else.

He's too short.

His arms aren't long.

He spoke like, you know, he hates it when people do that thing.

All the negatives you can imagine, except his unwavering belief in himself and the will to win.

The will.

Doctors still talk about people who are in the deathbed and they can't explain why a week later they walk up and walk out the hospital, live another 10 years, except for the will to win.

And there are other people who drop dead when they just give up.

Yeah.

How did you prepare your mind then or psych yourself up?

You have no preparation.

When you're going

when you went on stage, though, did you prepare or not?

The plane doors open.

Go.

What do you got to lose?

In America, you cannot fail.

You can't fail.

If you lose all your money, you declare chapter 7 or chapter 11, and you can start all over again.

And when that first chick,

would you like to go out with me?

And she says, no.

Too many fish in the sea.

There's tall, one's short, one's fat, one's third.

Just keep swinging that bat.

You'll hit it.

No means nothing.

That's a good mindset.

Well, what choice have you got?

As soon as you say, well, I guess I'll give up.

You're done.

Why do you think so many people, though, live in self-doubt or insecurity and don't go for their dreams?

There's no reason for it.

But why do you think so many people live in that space?

Well, it's safer.

People are lemmings because it's safer in numbers.

You don't want to be that one person who said, but that's what leaders are.

The leaders are the ones, you know, most people have a problem getting up on stage and speaking their mind because you will be judged.

People don't like to be judged.

Get over,

it doesn't matter.

Like what, not everybody likes Jesus either.

Did you ever care about being judged or being not liked?

No, I think too much of myself.

You think highly of yourself.

It doesn't matter.

Well, they're not qualified to have an opinion on yours truly.

I'm qualified.

I know where I've been, what I'm doing, what my dreams are, what I'm willing to work at.

Anybody's other opinion is an opinion at first glance.

Why do you think so many people care about other people's opinions?

Because you don't, it sounds like.

But why do you think so many other words?

Or precisely, I could give a fight.

But why do so many people care about other people?

It's safer.

It's safer to be in a group.

And, you know, when it's time to put Frankenstein on fire when the guy didn't do anything, you know, there's a mob, you know, mob mentality.

You don't even have to say anything.

You can just let the mob carry you.

It's tough to be that, but those are the leaders of the world.

And they don't have to be the most qualified, by the way.

Some of the people I see on television using

Christ Redeemer, you know, they talk, they're hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars.

Some of them are not very bright people, but they have this

presence.

If you take a look at the most powerful people in history, good and bad, they weren't super tall.

They were usually pretty short guys.

But they had a presence.

Excuse me.

But they had a presence.

Yeah.

Some

illogical belief in themselves.

Yeah.

Whether it's Caesar or

Hitler or Napoleon, they have no right to have this, you know, and

some of them are real bad guys.

Small people,

but on the inside, giants, giant bad guys and giant good guys.

I'm curious, with all the, you know, experience, the travel, the people you've met, who in your mind

is one of the greatest musicians or the greatest leaders in the world that you've met or seen?

Let's talk, keep it in the music world.

Who's in the top in the music world that you're like, man, that guy or that gal's got it, or that group has got it beyond yourself and Kiss?

Who else who have you seen or met or watched that you're like, wow, they really have it?

Well, clearly, the Beatles are beyond, above, and beyond anything that

anybody's seen in music

over

200 years easily, not since the Renaissance, which is how you say it, not the Renaissance.

You have to understand they only existed seven years

and they came from a place that was a pool filled with liver, liver pool,

where nothing ever happened, high unemployment rate, no experience, no resume,

no nothing.

And yet,

I want to hold your hand.

What?

She loves you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that last chord, that minor ninth, is as sophisticated a chord if you know about music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That thing is almost like a jazz chord, unheard of in rock music.

And, okay, look, I'm going to give you

something you'll be able to understand.

Satisfaction is one of the great songs.

It takes about 40 minutes, 40 seconds to get to the first thing.

I can't get no

or anything.

Sunshine of your love.

Bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.

I did it backwards.

It's a bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bum, bum.

It takes about 50 seconds to get.

I've been waiting so long and all that.

On and on and on.

The Beatles.

I just wrote a new song.

What is it called?

It's called Help.

How's it going?

It goes like this.

Help.

I need somebody.

Help.

Not even an introduction, nothing.

Got another one for you.

What is it called?

It's called yesterday.

How's it going?

It goes like this.

Yesterday got

another one for you.

It's called Michelle.

How's it going?

Michelle.

Got another one for you.

It's called Hey Jude.

Not only does it begin with Hey Jude, the word hey.

It's before the music.

Before the music.

Yeah.

Hey,

Jude.

And then the chords come in.

Those are what's called perfect songs.

Not only that,

but

the title of the song is the first word of the song.

It's the most memorable song.

And it's the last word in the song.

Yesterday.

Last song.

Because I believe in yesterday.

Who writes songs like that?

It's undeniable they're writing them.

McCartney, especially, by far is the most successful songwriter in all of recorded history.

There have been over a thousand different artists who've recorded just yesterday.

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Did you get to spend some time with them?

With Ringo.

What was that like?

Well, there are two stories.

In the shared days, she used to have

these disco roller skating parties where all the celebrities would go.

And I didn't care.

I mean, I appreciate you're lucky to be a celebrity.

But, oh, my God, it's Ursula Andrews.

I didn't care.

I don't mean to be dismissive.

It's just, oh, there's that person from that commercial TV show.

And I'm sitting.

Because I didn't, you know, Jews on roller skates is hilarious.

So I didn't.

I just sat on the sidelines watching watching them

sat on top of the bowling,

anyway, on the side with my legs going like this.

And as everybody's roller skating, and then I saw two teenagers coming towards me.

So I got up because one of them's wearing a kissed t-shirt with rhinestones.

They're about 15.

And they came up and one's got an I'm a big fell of yours.

They speak with an English accent.

Oh, it's okay.

Sure,

doing an autograph.

And then I look up and in back of them, Ringo Starr starts coming towards them.

And I'm, you know,

and you're big at this time.

You're like, kiss is massive at this time.

But the Beatles, I couldn't shine their shoes.

So Ringo comes up, puts his hand, puts his arms around them, and he says, I hope my boys aren't thinking.

Ringo's sons are asking me for an autograph.

Wow.

To slap their little putts' faces and say, how dare you talk to me?

Your father's a beetle.

It happened again.

We were playing, oh, one other time, we were having a party up in the Hollywood Hills, and Ringo had a L.A.

manager at that time, a guy named Eric Gardner.

And Shannon, my wifey and I are saying, I'm eating salads.

I hate salads.

And I'm eating salads, and Ringo's coming up to say hello.

And he sent me me a birthday.

He said, oh, happy birthday, Jane.

If you can't tell me,

can't say how much that means to me.

And I'm eating sad, so I give her a thing.

And he comes up to me, and I'm much bigger than he is, so I didn't know what to do.

So I picked him up,

and his feet are dank.

Ringo's about five, six, five, six, I don't know, or maybe five, I'm six, two.

So I picked him up, you know, because I wanted to hold, I don't know what else to do.

I didn't want to shake his head.

And I'm smiling.

I didn't even remember what I'm talking about.

And he said, would you put me down?

So I put him down and he walked off.

All right.

And I'm smiling, looking at Sandy.

She goes,

you got Godzilla slides.

Oh, my God.

Salad in your teeth.

It's like a big thing sticking out.

And I'm like, his face is right here.

And

yeah, just get over yourself.

No matter who you are.

If you're the Pope, I know you got a a poop just like I do.

Nobody's, I don't have that hierarchy thing.

So I've met everybody from His Holiness to Dalai Lama to Presidents, Cutin, and Bush and everything.

And they've achieved greatness in their field, but we all fart.

What have you learned about fame that you wish everyone knew?

If you become famous,

not always, but by and large, makes a good living.

The rest is how you can handle it or not.

Because

there are,

I would say, lots of famous people, rappers, a lot of rappers, who surround themselves with yes men and yes women,

a posse

so that, and I admire rap, don't misunderstand, so that when you go someplace, you have that cushion of support.

So it says publicly, I am somebody.

Whereas if you didn't have the fame, they wouldn't hang out.

They're parasites and vampires.

They're only around you because you have money and favorite, and they get free booze and free chicks and free all that stuff.

They're using you.

You're using them also to say, look, I'm somebody.

So why do rappers, a lot of rappers, some sports guys, why do they go to clubs clubs with a group to advertise that they're somebody?

I won't play that game.

I drive here myself.

I wipe my own ass.

You have no possa.

Yeah, you came alone here.

No.

I'm just happy I can

earn a living, a good living.

And the rest doesn't mean anything.

Yeah.

I mean, you've made a lot of money, though, at this point.

What's a lot?

Made a lot more, 99% more than most of the people in America, probably, right?

Like the amount of money you make.

I would say that's true 99 more yeah so you've made a lot what number is a lot because it's all relative of course what what is driving you at this season of your life to make more money what's driving you to make more money when you have made 99% more than most people as an athlete yourself if you've broken the

if you're the fastest human being on two legs

and after all the cameras are out and the chicks are gone and the awards are gone and the money people got you're just there by yourself do you wake up at the crack of dawn the next day and try to break your own record yeah of course that's what made you a champion in the first place so i'm going to be 76 i'm 75 now i don't know about you but the race is closer to being over

than the beginning

i don't know about you but when the looks like the race line the finish line is coming i run faster don't you yeah to finish finish strong Yeah.

What are you going to do?

Just

or sit back and watch somebody else's ball game as they go by.

No.

That's if you appreciate life.

If you love life, man, oh man,

I'm glad every day I can

have a hot foot Sunday and a good back rub, a lap dance every once in a while.

And then you die.

That's all.

That's it, yeah.

Gee, this has been really powerful.

We've been going for a while now.

A lot of fascinating stories.

I want to close with one final question with you.

Before I ask the question, I want people to follow you, Gene Simmons on Instagram.

Oh, I hate that.

Where should we go follow you?

GeneSimmons.com.

Okay.

You can do Instagram, but my kids take care of that.

I never go on.

There's 30 seconds of somebody watching, 30 seconds of somebody showing how they can pick their nose.

So gene Simmons.com has got all your information because you're doing the solo tour.

You've got different stuff, different businesses, projects.

Big company and restaurant chains and a lot of stuff.

Crushing it still.

You're finishing.

You're going strong.

Start strong and finish strong.

This has been fascinating, interesting.

But I have one final question for you, and that's what's your definition of greatness?

You will never reach greatness.

You shouldn't think of it that way.

The hunt is always

what it should be about, not to kill.

Once you kill something or once you finish the, you know, it's fine, but it's fleeting.

But when you, when your blood's pumping, your heart's pumping, and it's always about the hunt.

That's what life is about.

And I'd like to think the very last breath I take is going to be like, yeah.

Been there, done that.

In fact, I know what it's going to say on my tombstone.

Thank you and good night.

Because

I would imagine to lots of tombstones, I wish I could have, woulda, shoulda, coulda and all that stuff.

No regrets.

Kissed a few girls, had a great family, made a good living, provided jobs for people, gave to charity of stuff.

I was good for this planet.

I made the planet just a wee bit

better

than it was before I was here.

In fact,

wouldn't it be great if all of humanity, and there's about 8 billion of us before we drop dead,

if we could make the world just this much better times 8 billion, imagine the profound difference it would make.

You don't have to give everything away, just little bits.

Gene, thanks for the fascinating conversation.

I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.

And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.

I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.

Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something

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