Josh Groban Gets Vulnerable: "I felt like a talentless piece of SH*T!" How He Battled Inner Demons & Found Happiness

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Welcome back, my friend, to the School of Greatness.

We have a inspirational human being on today.

His name is Josh Grobin.

And he opens up on how he stopped chasing success and found real happiness after global fame as a young man.

And Josh opens up about the pressures of early fame, the midlife identity crisis he's faced, and how therapy, gratitude, and starting to slow down helped him reconnect with what truly matters.

He has sold out arenas from around the world and opens up about this process of always needing to be perfect and live up to expectations and the pressures that other people put on him in his teens and his 20s and how that helped him in some ways, but also how it hurt him in other ways and how he's tried to reconnect to his true authentic heart and himself.

Why the pursuit of the next big thing can leave you feeling empty if you're not being present.

For me, I reflect on this as well in my life because I'm going after big dreams and goals.

And in moments, I could get obsessed about what's happening in the future and miss out on the moments today.

And so, these are great reminders for me as well as an interviewer.

Being around someone like Josh and other top performers like Josh, it's just important for us to continue to listen and hear these stories and be reminded so we can hopefully use these lessons in our life.

We talk about why true peace often comes when you stop chasing and start appreciating life and so much more.

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And without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only, the inspiring Josh Groben.

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What is the biggest lesson you learned from being so successful at a young age

to where you are now, which it seems like a very peaceful human being?

Yeah.

I mean, you're catching me caffeinated.

So I've got a real good flow going right now.

But your energy seems very calm.

And when you're chasing success, I'm speaking for all of us.

It's like you're driven to like, what's the next thing?

What's the next thing?

Yeah.

Versus what's the now thing.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it looks like you're in a now place.

Well, you know, I've always been, you know, admittedly really kind of

not skeptical because I know how important and truthful it is, but I've always been a little bit of like, I'm not sure that's for me, though, about like the power of now and about like, you know, thinking about,

you know, stopping in the present.

And I've read all about,

you know, capturing the moments that you have, but there's always been that nagging thing in me to say, yeah, but there's that thing I got got to chase, or there's that, there's that success I have to go for.

What's the next tour?

What's the next thing?

I've never been, it's like the satisfied song in Hamilton, you know, it's like, there's always been that other thing.

And yet what I was saying to my, to my therapist that really kind of got me emotional was that like at the end of the day, and you realize that

what is life but to

but to capture and bottle the good moments when you can get them and to really stop and to really enjoy those moments because regret is a powerful thing.

And

if you move so quickly, and the greatest thing, I mean, truly the gifts that have been given to me by starting at a young age, doing what I love, to be able to travel the world, make music that I love, to meet people from all over the world and all walks of life.

But the thing that it took from me was a little bit of the slowness of the growth.

And it was hyperspeed and it was always thinking about what hasn't happened yet or dwelling on what is already dead.

And there was very little time to think about what's here and very little time to bottle the goodness of what's right here.

And I always knew it was important kind of peripherally, but it wasn't until this last year or two when everything started to click to me about what,

how important and how powerful it is.

And the crazy little secret about that is that once that started to happen, the clarity of where I wanted to go creatively and what I wanted to do for my next steps, because I had done,

I had a major creative block right after I left Broadway about a year and a half ago.

Really?

Yeah, because I had the structure.

I had a year of doing my dream show, and all of a sudden you don't have a place to go.

You don't have a sport to sing.

You don't have to have a screen.

You don't have an audience in front of you.

You don't have a routine.

And so I needed to kind of have the time out of absolutely being completely scared, not knowing what I wanted to do, not knowing where I was going,

in order to kind of finally evaluate and realize the power of that.

But yeah, yeah, I had a bit of an emotional moment just thinking about, you know, I was with my brother.

I was with my new nephew, my baby nephew who's just the most precious, most amazing and beautiful baby.

And

my brother's wife.

And I was there with my girlfriend who's my love.

And,

you know, I just spent time with my parents as well, you know, and we, it was just like this week of, oh, this is my, this is everything that I want.

I can bottle this.

This is what I want to bottle every day that I have going forward.

There's going to be good days.

There's going to be tragic days.

There's going to be everything in between.

But

this week of connectivity, I want to bottle this forever.

And I just want to keep bottling.

I just want to keep finding those.

That's my goal in my life.

And it can be creative too,

but it's important.

That's beautiful, man.

When you were so young and reaching.

the heights of success in this music world, did you feel like you were happy when you were accomplishing all these big big goals and breaking records?

And, you know, I was, um, I was, I was happy that others were happy.

I think that I, I, when I look back at it, I kind of define my happiness at the time as being, um,

I guess satisfied that I had, I had knocked the duck down, that I had done what it was that was asked of me.

uh and i had achieved i had broken through the pressure of what was expected of me and it was like I had two gears.

It was either like normal, good.

I did the job.

Everybody's happy.

I can go home with a smile on my face.

I did the job.

Or I didn't do what I was supposed to do.

And I'm going to take that to a very dark place.

But I was never able to break through the ceiling to joy.

Really?

No, not really.

I mean, you had Tony, Emmy, five-time Grammy nominated, you know.

35 million albums sold worldwide.

Sure.

More now.

All these things, Broadway, film, television.

I mean, mean, it's like, you've done all the awards.

Oh, for sure.

And that's not to say that there wasn't an enormous amount of like of gratitude, but the, the,

the, because I was, this, this all came from a lack of confidence, not a, this is not a big deal.

It was because I was so nervous about failure every step of the way.

It was because every step of the way, and I'm talking primarily like the first 10 years of my career.

Um, because you got started kind of when you got started, when were you in your teens, right?

Yeah, I was 17 when I was this the Celine moment?

Yeah, I was 17.

I got discovered by David Foster singing with Celine at a Grammy rehearsal.

That video is amazing.

And it's, oh my God, I look at it.

I'm just like, first of all, the hair, the turtleneck, the whole thing was like.

No, but the moment was so powerful to have that captured.

My dad had a video camera in the audience.

And like, you know,

Renee, Celine's husband who passed away, who was so, so kind to me, said, oh, no, he can, security was all over my dad.

Cause, you know, you can't,

you can't just film.

Um, and said, you know, no, let, no, that's his son.

You know, let him, let him film.

So, uh, we were able to capture it.

And, uh, you know, I thought it would be a cool thing to show my friends, you know, like, hey, look, look, that's Celine Dion.

Um, I look back at it now and I think, wow, that was a moment where I was terrified.

I got through it, but you know, even after that, I walked back to the car and I think it's just in my nature.

I was just like, Did I do okay?

Like, did I, was David happy?

Was Celine happy?

Like, okay.

And I had never been on a stage that large in my entire life, but there was something about my psyche that was saying, like, oh, good, did I get the job done?

I got the job done.

All right.

Well, back to history class.

You know, I just was, I don't know what was wrong with me, but even when David asked me to do it, he was like, hey, I'm at the Grammys.

Andrea Bocelli can't show up.

You were great at this thing.

I heard you at.

Would you mind singing with Celine?

Even then, I was like, can I do the job?

And I said, okay, Andrea's a tenor.

I'm a baritone.

I'm not sure this is my range, David.

I think you might be better off getting a different singer.

I mean, so you almost turned it down.

I did turn it down.

And he called me back

and said, I don't think you've heard me because he'd never been, I don't think,

rejected.

Yeah, he's rejected.

Rightfully so.

And

he said, you know, I'll see you.

Terrifying as well.

I'll see you at three.

I'll see you at three o'clock.

And you're doing this.

And, you know, thank God he called back because I wouldn't be sitting here.

But,

but there was something in my nature very early on that was very much about like,

can I satisfy the need?

And if not,

I don't want to be, I don't want to just do it to do it.

And it honestly,

that served me well, just like a pro athlete.

Like that served me well to eliminate some of the noise and eliminate.

the hot the extreme highs that can get you into trouble.

I saw a lot of artists that their egos and their confidence just went to a whole other level.

And there can be a certain complacency that happens when you, when you, you think it don't stink.

But

I, I always kept my, kept my nose down and always thought about, like, okay, well, if I did the job, I can be satisfied, I can go to sleep happy tonight.

But if I didn't do the job, then I would self-criticize for weeks.

And that was the thing I needed to start to get better at.

Where do you think you'd be if you didn't say yes to David Foster and Stelene De Jan for that practice session?

Where do you think your life would be or career, or you think you would have finally broken through?

Or was that a big catalyst?

I just think that success would have been a different animal for me.

And I think just as meaningful an animal for me.

I think that theater was always in my blood.

I was accepted into a very prestigious theater program at Carnegie Mellon University, really top of the heap as far as like great musical theater programs.

And

so

I was so excited

to be part of that.

And my freshman class there was like just bananas talented.

We had, you know, Josh Gadd, Roy O'Malley Leslie Odom Jr., who got the Tony for Hamlet.

Leslie was in there too.

Leslie was in there.

I've had him on the show.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, he's such an inspiring author.

All those were in the same class.

We were in the same class.

Katie Mixon, who's an amazing actress.

And all of a sudden, and I've told the story, but it's like we were all the hot at our high schools, right?

We were all the lead.

We were all Tevia.

And like, all of a sudden, you're doing freshman sing for this, you know, we were the avengers of like high school theater leads.

And all of a sudden, we're in the same class together and doing our freshman sing for each other.

And we're all just kind of going, oh, wow.

Oh, got it.

Got it.

That's another level.

This is, I, now, this is what I have to reach.

So you came from LA also.

And I came from LA.

And I also started my freshman year after that Celine moment with David had happened.

So I was juggling from like a confidence perspective.

Honestly, my soul really wanted

to be where.

My college experience wanted to put me, which was that you have to humble yourself.

You are a beginner.

You are learning.

It is time for you to build sets for the seniors.

It is time for you to grind and feel like you have a long way to go.

That is where I wanted to be.

You're going to fail a ton.

And you know what?

By the time you graduate, you're going to be a leading actor, but not yet.

But what happened?

And then on the other side, I got David calling me saying, hey, we got to,

I got to have you at this billionaires event and you're going to be singing with this person.

And

Ray Charles is going to go on before you and all these.

And I'm, you know, and like, all of a sudden, I'm getting from this side of it.

You got to walk the walk.

You got to talk the talk.

You know, you got to act like a star, dude.

And on this side, it's you're here to learn and you're this big until we tell you.

And,

you know, and so that was a very confusing time because,

you know, I think a lot of people maybe would have like said, oh, but I've got this guy over here and I really want to be there.

My soul was telling me I wanted to be a student.

I really wanted

to get into the mud and

have the permission to be bad, to have the permission to try something stupid and pick myself back up.

And also, being kind of an introvert, I was excited to like have the college friend experience.

I was happy to be in a dorm building with all kinds of artistic kids and like having that being over in this corner was actually really isolating.

A lot of pressure.

Yeah, a lot of like very shiny things, but a lot of pressure and a lot of isolation along with this enormous door that had been swung open for me.

At the end of the day,

My parents and I talked about it and I was in school for performing arts.

You've got an opportunity.

The school was kind enough to give me a leave of absence.

They didn't just kick me out.

And so I said, okay, I'll come back in a year.

The kind of roles that I was going out for, I didn't need to be young and high-kicking.

I wanted to be like Sweeney Todd.

So I thought, if I miss a year, it's not the end of the world.

And then, you know, that path, that path happened.

But

Broadway came calling.

And it's some of the most satisfying artistic moments I've ever had have been on the Broadway stage because it represented for me where I wanted to be when I, when I started that other path.

Gosh, this is fascinating, man.

So, how did you,

when did you feel like you gained confidence?

Well, you know,

because you had the door like

wide open for you.

Yeah.

From one, working hard as a child to getting the talent.

It's not like someone just gave it to you because they liked you.

It's like a number of things happened.

You also busted your butt.

You're extremely talented.

You put in the reps.

And you had an opportunity and you took advantage of it and you kept delivering on results.

It's not like you,

And so more opportunities come when you keep delivering results.

Sure.

But when did the confidence come?

When I look back at it as a whole, I'm really able to high-five that kid and say, man,

you got fastball after fastball and you kept hitting home runs.

And, but in the moment, I was only thinking about the strikeouts.

I was only thinking about like all the times where I felt like I wasn't quite enough or I wasn't quite hitting the note the way David wanted or I wasn't quite, my stage presence wasn't where it needed to be, or you know, or when I wasn't getting recognition, if somebody gave me a bad review, or I wasn't nominated when I wanted to be, or something, I was, I was hyper-focused on all of the ways in which there might be a hint that it could be all over, or that I wasn't good enough.

I was really, I was, it was like, it was like I was a lawyer in my own head defending the demons.

Like, you see,

you see,

one critic over here.

Your Honor, I'd like to present exhibit a talentless piece of.

Here you you are.

Yes, I arrest my case.

I wasn't focused on all of the ways in which I was crushing it.

I was focused on all of the ways in which I wasn't.

Meanwhile, there was a whole lot of success happening as well.

So confidence was a funny thing that crept in through experience.

If I didn't have the hours and hours and hours and hours, there are enough things that happen

where

you feel like you don't, you aren't, aren't quite on your game and it affects you.

Oh, my

so nervous.

Oh, God, it really got to my voice.

Ah, why did I crack there?

Why did I do that?

Eventually, you get through enough things where there's a, your demons are having a party and you still made it through and did great that you go, ooh, I'm going to put that in the tool, the tool belt.

I know, now I know what that demon feels like.

And I now have, I now have the, the machete for that one.

Okay.

And eventually, you've been through enough hair-raising, nervous, not confident moments on stage and gotten through it anyway that all of a sudden, like by proxy, you take a side door to confidence.

For me, confidence is having enough tools in that belt to know that,

you know, I'm not ever going to kill the doubt, but what I can do is say, all right, here's the one, here's the tool I need to get through this bad moment because I've been through it before.

That's where confidence is coming from.

What is the best psychological or emotional tool that you've used when you experience the most fear or self-doubt?

What do you use to at least get through it?

As an overthinker and as somebody who feels like I need to overcomplicate things as a baseline in order to, for it to feel like meaningful,

the greatest lesson that I've had to learn is the power of simplicity and the power of back to basics.

because I never thought that I was just enough.

So I had to stack things on top of me in order to feel like I was lifting enough to be impressive to somebody because just me, just my singing just was like, why?

And so for me, getting through stage fright, getting through nerves,

being thrown on stage, which can still happen after thousands of performances, you can have an audience that you think is going to be amazing and all of a sudden they're just weird or drunk or somebody's yelling something in the front.

Things can still throw you no matter how many times you've been out there or all of a sudden you like, you thought you were sounding great in the dressing room and then out of nowhere, like you're like, ooh, I got a frog in my throat.

What's this about?

You know,

the ability inside yourself without anybody else knowing you're doing this to take it back to basics, to a simple checklist that involves like, As an example, I might be thinking about, I'm at Madison Square Garden and I got 18, 20 songs to sing and it's sold out.

And this is the, and I've got all my friends here and my labels here.

And there's like, there's the 32,000-foot view that when you're really coasting out there, you can allow yourself to take it to the complexity of like, all that.

I'm going to be at a 10 and I'm going to be singing the high note.

And I also know that this person I'm a fan of is in the audience.

I'm going to find them.

Where are they?

There you are.

And you're just like, you're, you're allowing yourself to get large with it.

If I'm not feeling good,

I'm thinking about the, I'm thinking about telling the story of that next lyric.

And that's that's it.

That is it.

And, you know, and I am not thinking about impressing the greatest venue in the world.

I'm not thinking about who's out there.

I'm not thinking about the next song or even the next line.

I am just thinking about singing and telling the story of

the word and the line that's in front of me right this second as beautifully and as honestly as I can.

And then the next line and then the next line.

And it's then you say, okay, I'm now at a one.

And on the outside, it's not any different.

I'm still enough.

I'm still doing everything I need to do.

But inside,

I'm telling the demons to take a back seat.

And so learning that simplicity and slowing my complex thinking mechanism down to be, because it takes a lot of bravery to sit at a one in a venue that's an 11 or an event or something that holds that much meaning.

It takes a lot of experience to be able to set yourself into a very simple zone when there's so much chaos around you.

And that's just experience.

That just comes from, I couldn't have done that at 20.

That's so interesting because I used to be terrified of speaking on stage.

Yeah.

But for the last, I don't know, 17 years, I've been speaking on stages.

And even after whatever, 10 years and getting paid a lot of money to speak in front of thousands of people, I would still get nervous right before going on.

And I was like, why am I nervous?

Like, I've done this so many times.

I've done training and public speaking class and been on stage and get paid a ton of money.

Like, why am I still nervous?

Because all those things you've already done,

the one that's in front of you is not done yet.

And it's, and it's control.

No matter how many times I've done it,

the stage that I'm about to walk up the stairs to isn't in my control yet.

When I'm backstage,

I've realized that nerves are the fact that I don't have the reins yet.

The nerves are

completely out of control to the unknown.

I think it'll it'll go great.

I've done great in the past.

There's no reason to think that I'll do poorly out there, but I don't really know.

And I think those nerves creep up when you care because when you stop being nervous, it kind of means that you're on autopilot and then it's time to find something else that scares you.

But I've started to harness the nerves in a way that makes finally getting on stage

fun

because now I can control.

Now I can control the evening.

I can control.

I've done public speaking too, which is way scarier for me than singing, by the way.

So kudos.

But like,

I will talk very, as you can probably tell, I talk very fast when I'm public speaking and I've got a speech to do at something.

And where I can take control is like, oh, I'm going to like relish in this line.

I'm going to really slow it down.

I'm going to find my pace.

Singing is the same way.

Now I've got a chance to really dictate how I feel about this next thing I'm going to say or sing.

And having that control is, is, I think,

can be a really fun thing if you transition your nerves to like, oh, I just want to, I just want to make the night what I want to make it.

Yeah, that's cool.

A friend of mine said, it's hard to be nervous when your heart's on service.

And when I go out on stage, I have a number of tools myself, but that's something I think about before I step on stage.

Instead of thinking, how can I look good and perform well?

Right.

and entertain, it's more like, who needs to hear a message that I can serve today?

Yeah.

And maybe that's something you do in your own way of like, how can I just give my best?

And, you know, that's the simplicity of just tell the story, sing the lyric, sing truth.

Just take it down to the simplicity of accessing and

giving out a message that you want to give.

Yeah, that's cool.

And then that's, and then that's it.

And then the rest of it, before you know it, you're saying, good night, Cleveland.

You know,

I'm curious, when has been a moment in your career where it was like the biggest success was happening, but you felt like you were at your lowest place mentally, emotionally, physically.

Did you ever have those feelings or moments where it was like, man, I'm crushing it like to the world, but internally, I feel like I'm really struggling?

You know,

I'm sure I could pinpoint a couple of those, but honestly, that has happened more often more times that I could actually kind of say that there have been moments where I have been going through my own

mental health journey on stage

that is so polar opposite from the experience that the audience is getting.

Really?

Do they know you're going through it?

Are you

pressing it?

No.

So you're just in your mind going through it.

I can tell you now that I have distance from those evenings that I was crushing it, that the shows were great.

And

in those moments,

there have been times where I can't even like talk to anybody for like an hour after the show because because I'm just, I'm in this like shame spiral of self-criticism that is,

can go so deep that has nothing to do with the reality.

And I think, you know, I talk to a lot of performers and people that are, that have high pressure performance jobs, whether it's in the arts or sports or whatever.

And

there is a certain place that is like an adrenaline place or whatever it is that you're your fight or flight that your brain has to access so often when you do that many shows that sometimes the nights where you're crushing it the most are actually the ones where you're kind of on the fringe a little bit and your, your vulnerability is kind of taking a hit and you're, you're feeling a little too wide open.

And there's a lot of stuff that's coming in and there's a lot.

And that means that there's some darkness that comes in too.

And so there have been shows

where

I have had to get out of my own way to enjoy what I've, what I've just done.

But I also have a tendency sometimes to, when I step off of a stage and it's like, there's like two different people.

When I'm on stage, there is something I can tap into that

really

knows how to ride the wave and ride the energy that's happening up there and work the stage.

And then I've just, for better or for worse, I've never been one of those people that can take the party back off stage with me.

I have so much jealousy for those artists that there is an after party and it's like, let's keep celebrating what this whole thing was, man.

Yeah, let's have drinks and let's talk about how great the night was and let's talk about how, you know, and I've just never been, I've just never been that person.

What happens for you typically after a performance?

Kind of like a battery overload and like shutdown mode.

It like

strained you.

I go into low power mode.

Interesting.

And I, and I, it is, has trained me a little bit.

I think that there's a, not a small part of it that has to do with

protecting from disappointment or maybe it wasn't quite the way I thought it was out there.

Or maybe I read a few, you know, too many negative things when I was younger, and it just taught me, like, ah, don't get, don't get too high after a show.

Stay, stay right here, you know, interesting.

But for whatever reason, I've just always, I've always let out everything that I possibly have to give out there.

And then afterwards, I just don't let myself celebrate it too much.

Wow.

And,

you know, that's, that's still something I need to work on.

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What are three pieces of advice that you wish you could share to your younger self the day you did the audition or the guest spot with Celine?

If you could go back to that day, that morning of,

and you could sit down in front of yourself.

16, is that how old you were there?

Yeah, I was 16 there.

Imagine you're there.

That's what, I don't know, 30 years ago, 20 something years ago.

Yeah.

What three things would you say to him, whether anything would change or not, just pieces of advice that you have now from wisdom, from years of experience, from therapy, from healing, from growth, ups and downs.

What would you share with him?

What's interesting about when I look back at that video and I look back at that kid is that I actually have more to learn from that kid now

than I have advice to give that kid.

Interesting.

You know, I actually can think of more things I'd like that kid to tell me at 44

than things I want to tell that kid as a 44-year-old.

Okay, well, give me three things that your 16-year-old self would tell you now, and then three things that you could also say to him.

What would he say to you?

I was

because nobody was paying attention then.

Nobody was looking for the next thing.

Nobody knew who I was.

I walked out on that stage and I stood out there for like 20 minutes because nobody thought that I was the kid singing with Celine.

So I'm standing on an X and I'm just kind of out there doot-dee-doot.

it out.

Yeah, hanging out and just kind of reading the Italian and trying to make, you know, and yeah, I'm nervous.

Of course, I'm nervous just like I get nervous now.

But I also knew that this was probably a once,

you know, in a lifetime experience.

And I was going to go back to theater school and after this and like tell a cool story.

Yeah.

And man, there was a purity of heart there that is

so important to go back to when all of a sudden there's a million things that people are expecting of you and know your name for.

And so, you know, I would, I would ask that kid, I would tell that kid, don't worry so much.

And I would ask that kid to tell me, don't look at the next 50 things that are, that are in front of you.

Wow.

Hold that lyric in your hand and sing out for the moment that you have it.

And don't think about the next thing you have to sing.

Just be in that moment because I was in the zone.

That kid was in the zone.

You know, I was.

Was that kid insecure or self-doubting or self-critical then?

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, but it was like a, it was in a,

I was so self-doubting that I told David, no, you know, I, I don't, I, I honestly genuinely didn't think that I was right for that, for that thing.

So I get there and

it was, there, there's a certain level of nervousness that doesn't hit you when you're that green.

There's a certain level of

no pressure.

There's nothing on you right now.

The ignorance is bliss thing that you're just like, oh, oh, wow, we're here.

And before you know it, you're on the stage.

And the director's going, where's the kid?

Where's where's the stand in for Celine?

And I was like, hi, you

uh, all right, um,

okay, stand here.

Um, can we get a mic for the kid?

Oh, thanks, and I'm just like, Okay, I guess I'm gonna sing into this.

I mean, I didn't know how to ask for the right monitor sound, I didn't know, like, oh, I need a little more treble in my ear.

And so, yes, hi, a little hot teeth throat coat, please.

Or, or I might not be able to sing the note.

You know, there's all these trappings that come in that are that are like these rituals that you start to feel like you need.

And, you know, honestly, like that, that kid would tell, you know, the guy who's now been selling albums for 25 years, get your head out of your and just,

I didn't have, I probably hadn't had water in four hours when I said, when I sang on that stage, I was in a hot car.

I had a security guard who wasn't going to let me in because David didn't give us the pass.

I had my dad with a rickety camera in the front row.

I had nobody who cared that I was standing there.

And I had this global superstar who was like, are you okay?

We're going to get through it together.

And she took my hand and I'm just going, wow,

she's lovely and nice.

This is wonderful.

This is so nice.

Selena is so nice.

But man, I was like, in my mind,

I was so like, oh, okay.

Well, let's, let's give it a go.

I want to, I'd love to do a good job.

And I'm very nervous.

But, you know,

there was so much ignorance that I feel is so useful

now that, you know, to just, and I think maybe it goes back to that keep when I need to go back to simple, when I need to take it to one.

I'm kind of taking it back to that.

Just be, just be, and that's it.

Um, because there was no expectation of me.

And so there was nothing in me that,

you know, felt this pressure except that I just wanted to do a really good job for David and then go back and,

you know, watch South Park or whatever it is I was going to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I, I, I, it was more about having fun, it sounds like there was a how can I have fun and just enjoy this world?

There was fun, there was a humility, there was a, there was a, of course, a nervousness because it was crazy, but, but there was also a like,

this is,

I didn't know what I didn't know.

And so I didn't have any of the stuff that gets in your way about expectation, about all the things you need.

I didn't have a writer.

I didn't have reverb.

I didn't have, there weren't, I had no expectations.

And I think that going back to that place is a really, um, can be really valuable sometimes.

How do you create that fun, playful, no expectation mindset 25 years later with such a massive career that you've you've had, how do you just say, okay, for the next, you know, decade, I'm going to go, no expectations, you know, the label has an expectation, my fans have expectations, my, my future self needs money coming in.

Sure.

How can you have the mindset of it, but also still

curate your personal brand and content the way that's needed to in an industry that's looking for hits and success?

Right.

You know, I think that taking side quests in life is is a really important and valuable thing i like that you have to i never had hobbies right like to me hot my hobby when i got into the thick of the success my hobby was just what am i going to write next what am i going to sing next what am i going to hit next and i and i would always just say oh yeah my hobby is singing my hobby is me

but honestly like having other things

to excite you you know um is important and also um understanding that that once you branch out and you have a certain amount of um of people that are that are with you,

you have the ability to, if you choose, to open more doors for yourself and to also open more doors for other people.

And so a huge part of

kind of getting out of my own way has been with philanthropy, has been in

finding my younger self in countless other students and trying to give whatever it was that I had, the access that I had, the wisdom that I was given to whatever young people that I can and to kind of see it through their eyes as somebody who's old and stodgy.

And, you know, that expectation

is always going to be a little bit of the rent due for

success and for

hitting it the way you wanted to hit it.

When I don't have expectations of me, I know that there will be a problem as well.

So I embrace the expectations.

It just shows that I've

reached a certain place where I want to be.

But, you know, picking and choosing where you just kind of decide in the most loving way to your artistic self to not care.

And it's not that you don't actually care.

It's just that sometimes you have to create in order to get through the maze of caring so damn much, you have to have that abandon and say, ah,

just my voice teacher, when I'm nervous, just throw it off the balcony.

Who cares?

Well, yeah, I do a lot.

But the point is,

just let it go.

And so I'm always looking for creative things that allow me to feel like, well, this isn't for the label.

This isn't for, you know, a certain core fan base.

This is just for me.

And I find that whenever I'm able to do kind of weird comedy stuff, Broadway, honestly, was one of those things where I felt like there was a, I wasn't expecting when I did my first Broadway show, which is a, which was a weird kind of started off, off, off Broadway.

I was not expecting it to be the success that it was.

And it taught me that.

you know, sometimes when you go towards the thing that is not for them, you're actually doing the exact right thing for everybody.

Interesting.

Because it's your, again, a lot of side doors in my life.

You're side dooring yourself to

finding, you know, passion, to finding, you know, where, and not just, um, not just a goal, but, but that, but that, that thing that's lit under you.

That's interesting because I like what you just said.

When you decide to do something that's not for them, you do it for everyone.

You can.

Yeah.

I've done stuff that

becomes for everyone, I guess, right?

It reaches more people sometimes than you could have ever expected.

For me, being allowed back

into a theater community that I left my freshman year, that I didn't know if I'd ever have a chance to

come back to that or that I'd ever be invited back to that.

I did, I went into theater for me.

I said, you know what?

It's been, it's time.

That's cool.

I want to do money or this or that.

No, absolutely not.

I want to do it for me.

I love this work and I'm going to do it.

I'm just going to take a timeout from the day job and I'm just going to go into this because this is for my soul.

And man, the domino effect of things that came from doing that first Broadway show taught me that, oh, that's, that's, that's where the light is.

That's whatever, whatever it was that made me choose to do that, whatever I call the day job, I need to make that same choice in every song I sing and every album that I make and every producer that I work with and all the things that I thought were more of a machine that I needed to figure out, like, what's,

what do I have to say next?

What do I have to to do next to hit it um it's it's just go where the goosebumps are that's it oh go where the goosebumps are that's powerful and this is listen we're you know we're in la this is very like privileged conversation that we're having here because we get to do what we love and make money from it and impact people um not everyone gets to like just do what gives them goosebumps all day long where they can make money and do all these things but I truly think everyone can have side quests, have hobbies, and live a life where their soul is on fire.

Yeah.

Maybe you're not enjoying everything you're doing, but you can bring soul to everything you're a part of.

And

like you said, it's not, you're not always going to feel it, but the pursuit of that feeling

rather than the pursuit of the end goal is, I think, where the secret sauce is.

This is so cool.

And so

for me, like what I challenge myself to do now day to day is to is to go towards a feeling rather than think about going towards what it is I want to get from it at the end of it.

The result I want to hit the next, yeah.

And that's, that's a tough, you know, that can be sometimes a tough thing.

And you've interviewed a lot of people that have been so successful and have had a lot of pressure.

And for me, having that pressure at the young age and having a lot of very type A people around me at a young age who also have made it very clear to me that if you're not singing into the golden microphone, it's going to be passed along to the next person.

You know, it's, it's a, you start to kind of develop some patterns emotionally that you have to unlearn a little bit.

And so, yeah, I'm, I'm chasing that feeling right now.

And when I go back around to that, that cry I had on, you know, on the phone with my therapist,

it was, you know, it's, it's, when you get those, when you, when you're able to bottle a feeling, you know, and in my creative life now, that's all I'm trying to do is I'm trying to chase where that, where that good stuff is.

And it doesn't come without a whole lot of days where you're hitting yourself over the head and you're digging a hole.

It's just about, you know, you got to get out of it.

What I'm hearing you say is over the last 25 years, not all of it, but a lot of it, you were in your head.

You were analytically thinking, got to hit the note.

did i please this person yep was the audience happy was the label happy that i hit my numbers did it sell out whatever it is was it a record breaker thing and you're in your head a lot but it sounds like you're chasing what's in your heart now in a feeling of there's so much you can't control and yes that stuff will happen or not happen based on so many factors that don't have anything to do with whether you yourself are dwelling on it uh and and that's the thing it's not that i you lose ambition for success.

It's just that you can't control what you can't control.

You can hold yourself and you can hold people around you accountable for the goals that you have for yourself in the most loving and motivative,

motivating ways.

But at the end of the day, the job that I have to do is a feelings job.

It really is.

And the rest of it, I just, I can't grasp it too tightly because it's not up to me.

Every year,

the business is in a different place.

You know, every tour, some tours, you know, you crush it, some tours, you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed for whatever reason.

It's like, all right, I'll move on to the next one, you know, but I'm still going to chase that feeling and I'm still going to go after that.

And so,

yeah,

it's a fun place to be.

I've been doing this now 25 years.

And, you know, finding dreams for myself that represent what I've been doing and represent new uncharted territories is a, is a really fun place to be.

I'm very, very grateful.

What's the thing that gives you goosebumps now when you think about exploring the idea?

You know, there's a couple of things.

One in the past and then one going forward.

But

when I, when I, and I say this sometimes on stage, but when I sing songs that were from like my first album now, and I mentioned that I was singing a lot of songs that had to do with a life that I hadn't lived yet.

I was being given songs that were very mature.

And

when I get to sing those songs now as somebody who's experienced love and loss and all the things that I'm I'm now the age of who I was singing for when I was 17, you know,

I

have a newfound appreciation for my older work because I now feel like I've lived the life that can fully tell the stories.

Wow.

That's cool.

And, you know, as I go forward, the things that give me goosebumps,

when I have like

a great day, like with my nephew and my girlfriend, and I've had a great day with my parents, or something gets me up at two in the morning to just sit at the piano and just just play.

And I just, there's just something pure about the experiences that I get to have in my life, and I'm not thinking about the other stuff.

You know, that's the stuff that's good scary for me now: is thinking about like setting roots down and like moving on with the things that I may be put to the side, you know, during the other part of my

life.

And,

you know, and I, I,

and keep, keep side questing.

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I'm going to learn magic.

Let's go.

I just went to a magic show this weekend.

Oh, really?

In LA, oh, man.

I just did magic tricks to my parents.

It was pretty good.

I kind of crushed it.

Did some card tricks?

You got a tricky game.

I don't, you know, it's strange.

I didn't bring a magic trick.

That's the next level is when you can just pull out of

cards.

And yeah, yeah.

I'm not sure I want to be that guy, actually, but you never know.

You never know.

It could always be a coin trick that you could have.

Oh, I got a quarter.

You know, let's do something.

I've been collecting baseball cards and selling.

I have an eBay account where I've been selling baseball cards.

Come on.

Yeah.

Nobody knows it's me.

But can I tell you that the satisfaction that I get.

You're like, I made 20 bucks.

Not even, not even

wrapping, delicately wrapping an Ellie De La Cruz

base card in an envelope and the padding

in the team bag and printing out the label and shipping, taping the label and dropping it off at the post office to send to someone who's going to sell

or Peoria.

There has been something about that's been so tangible and so fun

to do that.

I really, really enjoyed doing that.

Wow.

Do you get them graded or do you just send them raw?

I send them raw.

Yeah.

I haven't gotten into the PSA stuff yet.

I mean, there's, because there's certain cards that I do want to get graded, but no, I'm just, I'm just putting them out, putting them out raw.

And there's some that are expensive, some that aren't, but, but it's been, it's been really, really fun.

Are you breaking decks then?

Are you buying them and selling them?

Or are you?

I'll get into breaks sometimes.

But you're going to trade shows and you're buying them.

I haven't gotten into the trade shows yet.

But no, sometimes I'll go online and do some breaks online, which is it's cool, but it's also

sometimes a real waste of money.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I mean, it is, you know, because

you're wasting eight times out of ten.

You lose them all.

You're losing.

You're losing.

So I really enjoy.

It's the thrill of it.

I like, you know what, as long as I'm going to spend some money on it, because you know, the old joke is like, if you want to make $500 selling baseball cards, you got to spell $5,000 to do that.

You know, it's

just kind of getting some basic boxes, hobby boxes.

And I open them with my girlfriend.

I opened them with my brother.

It's just fun to rip them open and see what you get.

I got into buying a little bit during COVID.

I've kind of paused for a while.

Yeah.

Well, that would be the time to do it for sure.

I was late to it.

Right.

But my friend, Pat Flynn, he started the side quest of his own.

Yeah.

two years ago, three years ago, doing Pokemon stuff, bringing back his childhood joy to now.

He's a very successful business entrepreneur, but now he has a TikTok that is called, Should I Open It or Should I Keep It Sealed?

It's a very, it's got like a theme song to it.

Oh, wow.

And it shows him buying expensive decks of Pokemon 20 years ago.

Yeah.

Should I open this or keep it sealed and sell it?

He always opens it and almost always fails.

Like, never gets anything, but you're like hoping he gets that one card, you know?

This is being in your 40s post-COVID.

Oh, yeah.

Is just any slight grasped nostalgia.

Like,

give me that good, give me that good feeling.

I've been eating like the cereal of my childhood lately.

What is it?

Lucky Charms?

Oh, my God.

Capture Clutch.

Oh, okay.

Yep.

Rice, rice,

rice crispies.

Yeah.

Cocoa puffs.

Yeah.

It's like there's, there's something, what is that?

I'm just, there's something about the nostalgia of it.

But the baseball cards, I, I, by the way, I've also been buying like boxes of cards like from the junk wax era, but were from my 80s, you know, back

when I was collecting, you know, Oral Hirschheiser cards.

Wow.

That's been fun.

Yeah, that's been fun.

So I hear you saying you're chasing joy rather than chasing success.

That's trying to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the success sometimes, you know, um,

where, whereas the joy would be the side door and the success was number one, I'm going to make joy number one.

And if the success goes through the side door, then that's, that's a bonus.

This is the first time we've met, but I've seen your, you know, content and your, you know, your, your performances on stage for 25 years.

I've seen you on TV and all these different things.

I've seen moments of you.

And again, we don't know each other except for just now, but you seem like you're the most peaceful energetically.

like and your face seems calm and young whereas before it's almost like people bouncing off the walls in here this is no i mean i'm just by perceiving by perceiving all your work it almost seemed like you were always trying to perform older like be older and like put together and like this perfect image versus I'm going to be myself and you look younger than when you were probably I was stressed.

That's what I'm saying.

You have the energy of like more, you probably had puppy pause that I hadn't grown into.

And I was like, i was yeah i was you know you're i joke but you're you're you are so right that when i look back at videos of me doing interviews and stuff from those first 10 years i was like who is that old man inside energetically i was energetically like

i was just like my baseline was just deep concern at all times and that concern i think came across as a self-seriousness

but it was it was really just terror it was just like got to say the right thing got to sing the right thing, got to, got to be all the right things.

I have to be the person that everybody wants.

There's a billboard of me staring you down.

I got to be that guy.

And yeah, I was, I was, uh, I was just, I was scared to death for a good amount of time.

And I was also

being rewarded for that fear with a lot of success.

So it, it, it kind of taught me some toxic things that I needed to unlearn.

Um, but

you know, I've been, I've been so lucky that I've, I've been able to

break out of the things that are the norm.

And I've done enough, you know, weird, fun for me things that people have gone, oh, we like that too.

That I thought, oh, I don't have to hold on so tightly.

I can be,

sometimes it takes a long time before you can say to yourself, oh, just who I am is okay.

Like it's, you know, because you're, you're, you're packaged early and it's, uh, it can take a long time.

So to everybody who's allowed me to say, you know,

I'm weird and that's all right.

Thank you.

Yeah, man.

It's it's cool.

I mean, even on social media, you're very fun and playful at times, and you like express yourself, which again, I just didn't see that, you know, in the era of you growing up.

Yeah, from your success, it was like, I have to be the ultimate performer, you know, and then perform in an interview, not in a negative way, but it's like energetically, you had to be, it was held tighter.

The kid that wasn't on stage, the kid before I got signed, was the biggest goofball.

I mean, like, you know, I

had and have the attention span of a fly.

Like, I've, you know, just always been bouncing off, you know, different things and different hobbies.

And, and, and, and I've always been just kind of weird and I've always loved comedy and joined an improv troupe when I was in junior high school.

And, like, you know, and then the person that dove into the music industry, there was a very specific kind of lane that I needed to fill in order to be in the big leagues.

And you couldn't be this goofy kid.

That didn't fit the lane that was set in front of me.

There was a part of me that was that lane.

So it wasn't like I was just going into something that wasn't me, but the lane that was going to be,

here's where we need you.

Here's the song that you're going to sing, even the song that I sang with Celine, the prayer, that fit a lane.

And that lane was very, very serious.

And that lane was about

causing a lot more tears than laughter emotionally.

And

so

I think that the fact that now with the internet and social media and you can be all things, and I actually think it's flipped now to the point where if you aren't more things, you're boring.

So it's actually in a place now that I think I almost wish

some parts of me are so glad I didn't have social media when I was 17, 18, because I was already insecure.

But

it would have been fun to have kind of tapped into that other stuff back then.

Of course, of course, man.

I'm excited for you.

This is a quote from you that I saw you say on another interview interview somewhere.

We cannot fend off the battle inside by ourselves, even when we're always convincing ourselves we can and should.

Who has been in your inner circle or your team that has supported you in overcoming yourself, limiting yourself to criticizing yourself or the shame you maybe had or just

there's been a couple of people, but

my parents are both very artistic, but real world.

they did not go into the arts professionally to watch their kid want to be in the arts was probably sheer terror for them, but also like, you know, they always brought me back down to earth and they always built me up.

Um, I

had a couple of teachers that saw, I mentioned the attention span thing, but like having ADD and not knowing it and finding solace in the arts saved my life.

Having the teacher kind of go,

I see like you're getting your butt kicked a bit in math class.

Yeah.

I'm going to open up the music room for you so that you can refill that part of your tank because i know you're feeling like crap in that with that tank uh that saved my life um you know being with the right partner you know it's like i was just talking to my girlfriend today about something i was i forgot what it was but it was like you know having somebody that allows you to be your weakest with them so that you can be your strongest out the front door is uh is just the most vital and the most important thing wow how long you guys been together About three years now.

But honestly, like to have a sounding board like that is incredible.

What's the greatest lesson your girlfriend's taught you?

To not care so much what other people think.

Really?

I'd say that, you know,

there is such a, there is such a tendency for your focus when you're trying to become inspired by something to kind of be wide and to be, you know, you're hearing it from a lot of, a lot of corner offices are telling, are telling you a lot of things, not to mention all the anonymous

things that you get from all over the internet.

And, you know, it's impossible, even when you've accomplished a bunch and even though you, you are chasing all the right things and

to kind of get thrown every now and then, to kind of say, oh, but she'll see that I'm really excited by something.

And then I'll have a second thought that is based entirely on the insecurity of what somebody might say, or, oh, maybe that won't be taken the right way, or what, or stuff that has nothing to do with inspiration.

And she'll sit me down and she'll say,

like, absolutely not.

I saw that, I saw how your eyes lit up.

I saw that fire in you about this thing.

You were so excited about this song or this collaborator or this comedy thing or whatever it was.

And I think that, you know, she's from Essex, England, and she's, there's a certain amount of like, you know, toughness there that I've, I've needed through my life.

And

just to kind of keep me where the light, keeping me where the light is can sometimes mean that you, you don't, you don't care as much about the noise.

And even now, sometimes I care too much about the noise in the chatter.

Then what is at this season of life, what does success look like for you?

I want to be

as

I want to be, I want to have the best platform I can to reach young people who are looking for a path in life and using the arts as a tool to do that.

For me, an enormous part of success for me is paying it back, paying it forward, and diving headfirst into

philanthropy and into, you know, I'm going to be going to the Debbie Allen School of Dance tomorrow and I'm going to be meeting with a bunch of kids and filming a bunch of stuff there.

And it's like, I, you know, I'm so excited to do that.

Whenever I get to be in a room full of students and I get to instill whatever little wisdom I have from those moments and hopefully keep kids on the right side of the fence because I know what it feels like.

And I came from support.

There's a lot of kids out there who are not coming from the same support that I had.

And staying on the right side and where that light is

can be as simple as having that music room unlocked, you know, having that paintbrush from your hand or that dance program.

And so

putting whatever power and influence that I can put into raising awareness for those programs at a time when those programs are being obliterated at a rapid pace.

That to me is

finding a legacy for my foundation, Find Your Light, is a huge level of success for me as I go forward.

Being the best uncle I can be to my new nephew is a huge level for that.

And,

you know,

every artistic choice that I make,

I want to be able to to look at it and say, well, even if this doesn't do anything, I really, I love this.

I really love this.

That's a scary thing sometimes, you know, and continuing to do that.

If I can continue to expand,

you know, and

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Tell me about Find Your Life Foundation.

How long have you been doing this for?

And what is the, you know, it's helping each child have the opportunity to experience quality arts and education, I'm assuming, right?

How long have you been doing this?

And how can we, the audience, get involved if they're inspired to?

Well, it started, you know, my fans are amazing.

They are never just in it for like

flashing the pan, like, you know, just cheering for the music.

They want to know how to get involved too.

From day one, they've said, what are your passions outside of music and how can we help?

They presented me with

one of those jumbo like publishers' clearinghouse checks.

I was playing the Greek theater in like 2006, you know, and

they came to the front of the audience and they said, you know, hey,

we've raised this money for you.

It was like something like $40,000 or something like that.

And they said,

we know that you want to start a foundation one day.

Consider this from your fans the first check.

That's cool.

The coolest.

And

so,

you know, it's, I didn't know I wanted it to be arts education at that point.

We just kind of raised money and we built, we gave a lot to medicine and

disease research and hunger and things like that.

And I testified to Congress about the importance of the arts in our, in our, in our world and the importance of arts education and told my story.

And I'm next to Linda Ronstadt and Wenton Marsalis.

And I'm talking to, very nervous, talking to Congressmen and women.

And I'm going, oh, I have a story here.

I know, I know what, I really know what I'm talking about here.

And the fun part was, too, that with arts education, a little bit goes a long way.

You can, you can buy a lot of paintbrushes, a lot of instruments.

It doesn't take a lot to open that door and

give a kid a drum set to sit at.

And so I thought, oh, man, I think that I'm going to always give to other organizations.

I'm always going to lend my money and my time to other organizations.

But the thing that I want to raise money for, I think, has to do with the thing that saved my life and saved me.

And so we are giving grants all over the country to make sure that in-school and after-school programs that enrich and give access to young people's potential through the arts

continue to survive at a time when they're crashing and burning.

We've seen it, you know, over and over and over again,

how the inclusion of a solid arts program in a young person's life changes their grades, gets them more invigorated in their academic work, changes their confidence level, gets their parents.

to come and see them in a show or see their art exhibit or whatever it is, gives them something to talk about.

The graduation rate rises.

We need an infusion of humanity right now.

And, you know, with the divisiveness and with the attention seeming to be away from the things that bring us together,

we need to instill in our young, our, our, our young people, it's not about finding the talent that's going to be the next superstar.

It's about really instilling the things that the arts bring to

what

the light of what makes us incredible together and also the beauty of all the differences we have.

So interesting because as an athlete growing up, I struggled in school, but sports was kind of my art.

Yeah.

It was my expression.

I think that the similarities between using the arts as a tool and athletics as a tool are so many simulations.

It saved my life in a lot of ways.

And it just helped me grow as an individual and develop me in character development, team building, communication, all those things.

Like I wish arts and sports and athletics were school.

I wish that was the majority, not the after school thing.

And the after school thing was like, okay, learn obviously how to read and write, but you need to learn how to work with people and set goals deal with failure.

Absolutely.

Dealing with failure is a big one.

Yes.

Building yourself back up

and,

you know, and expressing who you are through

an art platform or sport platform, getting that side of your soul out of your system opens up your tank for all the other things that you want to do or even just have to do.

It exorcises so many demons in a young person's life.

And it's overlooked because it's thought of an extracurricular and it's not, you know, as important as the rest of it but um i would argue that it's it's just as if not more important because uh it teaches kids who they are yeah

that's cool so fylf.org is the site yep findyourlightfoundation.org yeah can people go and donate there

they can learn about the programs that we support they can donate um

and we're you know we're constantly doing doing work to to raise money and we're going to do another gala um in october as well in new york at jaset lincoln center which is going to be awesome so look out for that but um yeah we've just been the amount that we've been able to raise, the millions we've been able to raise now from very grassroots to now being able to have these galas and have, you know, supporters like Renee Fleming and Sarah Borellis and Linda Well Miranda and, you know, our former surgeon general, Vivek Murthy.

And,

you know, and the most fun part of it for me is when we have people who aren't in the arts going up.

We have neuroscientists.

We have people that talk about what the arts is doing on a scientific level to these young brains.

That's the part for me that takes takes it out of, you know, for anybody that's skeptical of the woo-woo of like, oh, it's just a drum circle.

Yeah.

Like, no, we are, we are actually scientifically helping these brains.

Yeah, that's cool.

That's that's the fun part for me.

That's great, man.

fylf.org.

So there's a link for people to donate there too.

There is.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

And every little bit, honestly, like,

you know, $5

can go towards, you know, like I said, that paintbrush, you know, all of these programs, when they're asking for grants, they're not asking for $100,000.

They're asking for five, 2K, 3K.

They're asking for just enough to keep these programs alive.

And if someone donated $500 to $1,000 just watching, what would that do for them?

Like,

how would that impact people?

You know, is that a school?

Is that how many kids would that help?

Well, when we get grant applications for programs, they go through a rigorous process where they'll tell us exactly what they need,

what the money is going towards.

So we have a group of volunteers, myself and my family and our board, we do it as well, that we really make sure we vet that the money that's given to the foundation is going to programs not just to be a band-aid, but to really make sure that that money is going to nourish an arts program to continue to nourish themselves going forward.

And so that we can be a small part of

at a pivotal point in time when this organization needs an infusion so that they can stay open for a long, long time.

So it's mostly for high school programs or for like...

Elementary through high school.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And right now we're just in the U.S., but we want to, we want to expand that globally as well.

Yeah.

So F-Y-L-F.org, we'll uh school of greatness we'll make a donation today for you that oh that's very kind thank you so much make a donation there and i hope everyone else donates as well if you feel inspired thank you sir about the find your light foundation um i've got a couple final questions for you but this has been really inspiring and eye-opening i'm glad you've been sharing so much

you've got a uh besides your foundation you've got a couple shows at the hollywood bowl coming up september 5th and 6th i believe that'll give me the good chills that's exciting that's a homecoming that's that's gonna be fun i remember my my my dad took me to see Elton John there when I was like 10 years old.

We sat and I think we probably had the furthest seat in the back, and it was still incredible.

That's going to be a very, very special show with the two shows with the Eller film.

That's cool.

And are you going on tour later as well?

I'm planning on it.

Yeah.

We've been working.

Nothing's been announced just yet, but we're honestly, we're looking at a bunch of both domestic and internationally.

Okay.

I want to get out and hit the road in 2026.

So, yeah.

So look out for that.

Awesome.

Yeah.

You got a new album coming out as well called Sin and Gems.

Yeah.

So we just released a kind of a best of compilation called Gems, where we kind of took the songs that were favorites of mine, favorites of the fans, and we put them in one collection.

That's cool.

And then we started seeing a lot of comments from people saying, like, what about this song or that song?

And there were songs that they were mentioning that honestly, like...

We either released for a very small amount of time or were like a bonus, bonus, bonus edition of something.

Or we honestly, I sang live and never released it.

And so we're going to be releasing something we're calling hidden gems, which is all the songs that are not quite yet available, stuff that we haven't put on Spotify yet, stuff that has been on an old,

like a Hallmark-only album or like a Target edition or something that hasn't been the main songs that have still been songs that the fans have loved.

So yeah, Hidden Gems will be coming out.

Plus, there'll be one or two new songs in there as well.

Okay, very cool.

So look out for that coming.

It's coming soon, the next month or two, I think, right?

Or I think it's fall.

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Um, I want people to follow you because you have a lot of cool stuff on social media.

What is the best platform for you, Josh, that you'd like to be on?

Oh, man.

Um, I, uh,

I like, I like Instagram.

Everything is just at Josh Grobo.

Groban.

My TikTok, Tic Tac.

Tic-Tac-Toe, baby, let's go.

My, my, uh, my TikTok is at Josh Groban, and my Instagram and my ex and my Facebook are all just Josh Groban.

Okay.

Um, and you know, uh, my TikTok is probably going to be the weirdest stuff that I do, you know.

Um, but uh, you know, it's, it's been fun, especially I've got a new puppy and we've been posting lots of past puppy.

So if you like dog content, there you go, you're in for a treat.

Singing and dog content.

They go hand in hand.

Before I ask the final couple questions, questions, Josh, I want to acknowledge you for just your vulnerability and your realness today.

I think it's been really cool that you've just been so open about reflecting 25 years ago, your 16-year-old self.

And most people think about the advice they would give their younger self, but you actually gave advice from your younger self to your current self, which I think is fascinating to hear that perspective of you of like saying, I wish I would get more into that frequently, that joy, that fearlessness, that not worrying as much about what's happening next, but being in the the now.

So, I love that about you.

And I love that you're making your mission.

Obviously, you want to be creating side quests and following your dreams, but you're also at a season where you're saying, How can I help that 12-year-old, 16-year-old, 18-year-old, 21-year-old who's in the arts, who's passionate about it, just keep the lights on?

Yeah, keep the door open, the possibility for them to pursue this, even if they don't make this a career, but keeping it a part of their life as part and not shutting that off yeah because they didn't have the opportunity right and i think arts uh for me you know i was in choir in high school nice actually pursued

i did the the theater my senior year because i was so scared of it yeah terrified yeah of like dancing singing on stage proud of you but i was like i i don't want to regret this yeah right yeah and i'm probably will never sing on stage again you know but it's like i knew that i was like do i want to leave high school not going for this yeah i did like tap dance class and like the theater.

And it was terrifying, but I learned so much about myself that I'm so glad I had that season.

Yeah.

You know, and I appreciate arts.

And I mean, I was the biggest Gale fan, right?

Because I never could do it.

But it was like this, the show was incredible for me.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so the fact that you're doing this, I think, is really cool because there's a lot of kids that

stop being creative and artistic, whether it be drawing or singing or dancing or music, they stop when they feel like they need to get serious about life.

Absolutely.

And you constantly say, Hey, keep going.

Here's a paintbrush.

Here's a drum set.

Here's the door still open for you.

Encouraging it and mentoring and coaching, I think is really cool.

Oh, it's, it teaches me.

I mean, that's the thing about teaching is you teach yourself so much by teaching.

Yes.

I learn so much by giving whatever wisdom I,

because you unlock things you didn't know that you knew.

When you're asked questions by young people and students about your life and things, you're like, oh, you know, I'm now preaching something that I really realized I needed to remember for myself too.

So that's, that's the most fun part of that.

That's cool, man.

This question I ask everyone towards the end, it's called the three truths question.

Imagine hypothetical scenario, you get to live as long as you want in this life, but it's the last day.

Okay.

Last day for you on this earth.

Yeah.

And you get to create and accomplish and go on a thousand side quests and everything you want to do.

But for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you.

So all of your songs, your albums, this conversation, for whatever reason, it's not here anymore for people to experience.

But you do get to leave behind three lessons to the world.

I call it three truths.

What would those three truths be for you?

I think that

at the end of the day,

truly,

you know, it's the old phrase, but

the love you make is equal to the love you take.

That honestly,

the more that you put into the connectivity and kindness

towards the people around you, the more that you get back.

That's, I know it's cliche, but honestly, like it's, um, there is so much cynicism sometimes around you, and especially in high-pressure environments or in the arts, or in certainly entertainment, more than just the arts themselves.

But there are so many ways to think about how to step over that

taking taking those beats every moment that you can to express kindness to other people

comes back at you.

Stay scared, stay a student.

You know,

the people that I've been lucky enough to meet that have been heroes of mine still have a vulnerability in their eyes to learn a new thing, even though that to the rest of us they're gods on earth.

They can't wait to learn the next thing.

And

a final thing:

stay hungry for,

you know uh all of it food included that's great man uh final question what's your definition of greatness

oh my definition of greatness

um

gosh

i think that

you know i i think i think that greatness is sometimes i think one of those things that you can't necessarily control

greatness i think is when is when you can be looked at by those around you that you've that you've touched

as being somebody that they aspire to be or look up to.

I think, you know, the people that have been exhibited greatness in my life, when I look at my folks and I look at the teachers that

to this day, I will always call them by Mr.

and Mrs.

because like they, they are, they have that, that aura to me, you know, and

they, I, I, I looked up to them and I, and I wanted to be like them because

they did it for all the right reasons, even when nobody was looking.

And I think being the kind of person that

people feel that way about,

I think is, is

what greatness looks like.

There's a whole lot of people who've done great things that I don't think have achieved greatness.

And I think that that's the way to go about it.

Josh, thanks for being here, man.

Hey, thank you.

It's been a real pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

Of course.

That's powerful, man.

I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.

And if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.

I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

And if you want weekly, exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.

Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something

great.

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