10: BONUS EP - America’s Next Top Superhero

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Speaker 17 Novel

Speaker 6 It was a cold, unusually windy evening in downtown LA in 2006. The hum of the the city was interrupted by a woman's screams for help.

Speaker 6 She was on the roof of a warehouse, running around in a pink skirt and flailing her arms. But on the neighboring roof was a sight that would make even the most jaded Angelino do a double take.

Speaker 6 A group of superheroes were assembled there, dressed in colorful spandex costumes and billowing capes. One of the heroes cried out, Help is coming.

Speaker 6 At the edge of the roof was a perfectly placed beam that spanned across the two buildings to create a precarious bridge. From this height, the people walking along the street below looked like ants.

Speaker 19 We're going to go across two buildings on a beam because that's what superheroes do.

Speaker 6 That's Lemuria. She's one of the heroes.
She's wearing a gold spandex suit with no sleeves and a black cape. Her black hair is flowing in the wind.

Speaker 20 Gold?

Speaker 19 Lots and lots of gold. Lots of gold, like gold power.
And then I wore gold pants.

Speaker 20 Gold main pants, super tight.

Speaker 21 And

Speaker 19 stiletto, gold stiletto boots, because every superhero should wear stiletto boots.

Speaker 6 She stepped onto the beam towards the desperate woman.

Speaker 19 It's at night, there's a wind going, and I'm feeling my hair just kind of brushing against my face. I'm holding on to a beam, just white-knuckling it, right? So I'm white-knuckling this beam.

Speaker 19 I cannot see anything.

Speaker 6 With her face furrowed in concentration, Lemuria and the other superheroes navigated the narrow space between the buildings.

Speaker 19 So here we go. So we're there and I literally, no shame.
I have no shame at all. No shame.
I get on my hands and knees and the wind is coming and I'm getting cold and I'm just one inch

Speaker 20 time. You know what I mean? Just

Speaker 19 this is like internal ugly crying and just the fear of death.

Speaker 6 Midway across the beam, Lemuria thought it might be the end. But after some hyperventilating, she saved the damsel in distress.

Speaker 6 At this point, I should add that while Lemuria thought she was defying death 200 meters above street level, she was actually blindfolded on a TV set, tiptoeing across a wooden beam that was only a few inches off the floor.

Speaker 6 There was even a guy operating a wind machine to simulate the gusty LA wind.

Speaker 19 I didn't realize it wasn't real.

Speaker 6 We're on the set of a reality TV show like no other.

Speaker 23 Somewhere inside all of us, glimpse our hero.

Speaker 6 Welcome to Who Wants to Be a Superhero.

Speaker 6 Before Phoenix Jones and the Rain City superhero movement started doing their thing, Who Wants to Be a Superhero was a reality competition show that aired on the sci-fi channel in 2006.

Speaker 6 It was like a cross between Big Brother and the Apprentice, but with a whole lot more spandex.

Speaker 6 The premise was that comic book fans had to invent their own superhero persona and battle it out in a series of challenges to see who possessed true superhero qualities: compassion, courage, and kindness.

Speaker 6 It's the chance to make lifelong fantasies.

Speaker 23 Are we a source of life? I am tuberculous. Smyball, baby, it's flyball.

Speaker 23 I'm Monkey Boy.

Speaker 6 The last hero standing would receive a prize that money can't buy.

Speaker 6 They'd have their character immortalized in an original comic book written by Stan Lee, the mastermind behind Spider-Man, The Hulk, the Fantastic Four, and some of the greatest comic book superheroes in history.

Speaker 6 When you look back at footage from Who Wants to Be a Superhero, it's campy and pretty ridiculous.

Speaker 6 The contestants have names like the Iron Enforcer, Cell Phirl, or Nitro-G, and they carry homemade cardboard laser guns or plastic bananas, which supposedly transform into high-tech weapons.

Speaker 6 It all looks pretty low-budget.

Speaker 6 Who Wants to Be a Superhero aired before the Renaissance of all the superhero blockbuster movies, back when the real-life superhero scene was was just getting off the ground.

Speaker 6 In a way, the show laid the groundwork for the whole movement. I wanted to get to know the people who played such a big role in this weird subculture.

Speaker 6 I'm about to dive back into the comic book universe to find out what it takes to triumph in the ultimate reality TV battle between real-life superheroes.

Speaker 6 So don your capes, slip into your lycra, and rehearse your cheesiest catchphrase. because things are about to get ridiculous.

Speaker 6 I'm David Weinberg, and from the teams at Novel and and iHeartRadio, this is the Superhero Complex, episode 10, America's Next Top Superhero.

Speaker 11 I'm such a nerd.

Speaker 11 You're here in my house and it's just board games everywhere and swords and beholders and mind flayers and dragons on the walls. And that's what makes me happy.

Speaker 6 I met Matthew Atherton at his house in the suburbs about an hour east of Los Angeles.

Speaker 6 Back in 2006, he was known as Feedback, a real-life superhero, but not in the way that Phoenix Jones is a real-life superhero.

Speaker 11 I'm not the guy who, you know, is going to put on a costume and go into dark alleys and look for wrongs that need to be righted.

Speaker 6 Feedback is Matthew's superhero character created for who wants to be a superhero. Before he was feedback, though, Matthew liked to role play as his favorite superheroes, in particular, Spider-Man.

Speaker 11 I made a Spider-Man costume and dressed up as Spider-Man and led the Halloween parade as Spider-Man and stuff like that.

Speaker 6 And in college, he even made his own Spider-Man movies.

Speaker 11 So the first one was called The Origin. And I sent a copy to my mom, and my mom sent it to Marvel.

Speaker 6 And so

Speaker 11 I got this letter that said, we really love that you're excited about the character, but you can't do this, you know, getting this.

Speaker 7 I'm like, mom, why did you

Speaker 18 do that?

Speaker 11 And so I wrote back a letter that said, hey, you know, we're not charging any money for any of this. I said, we're just making fan films.

Speaker 11 And I got another letter back that's like, you know, it's tough to break into the comic book business, you know, try hanging out at a comic book store and all this other stuff.

Speaker 11 And I thought, this is worthless.

Speaker 6 Maybe Marvel knew something Matthew didn't at the time, because hanging out at this local comic book store would change his life.

Speaker 6 One day, around 2005, many years after Matthew got in touch with Marvel, he saw an ad for an open casting call. It was for a show called Who Wants to Be a Superhero.

Speaker 6 Matthew raced home and forged a brand new superhero persona, Feedback. Feedback had the power to draw energy from others.

Speaker 11 If I was with

Speaker 11 other heroes, I could enhance their powers. And if I were with a villain, I could pull their power down.

Speaker 6 Feedback wore a black Ironman-looking suit with electric blue detailing and a big letter F in the middle.

Speaker 6 On the day of auditions, Feedback took the day off from his job as a software engineer and drove down to Sunset Gower Studios in Hollywood. He parked his car and quickly realized he wasn't alone.

Speaker 6 There was a whole crowd of would-be superheroes milling around, blinking in the rain, and waiting to be told what to do.

Speaker 6 The battle to become one of the show's contestants was clearly going to be fierce. Like, how do you do this? And it's like, well, let's have an open casting call and we'll put it everywhere.

Speaker 6 Craigslist, everywhere. This is Rick Tellis.
He's the director of the show. It was raining on the day of the auditions, and he was scared nobody would show up.

Speaker 6 But Rick definitely underestimated the number of would-be superheroes in LA.

Speaker 6 And then I remember going outside and looking down the street and there was this huge line of people and it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger he had to open a second studio to house them all and they were all dressed up and i'm thinking to myself how do you keep them entertained rick didn't have to do anything because these weren't regular people they were superheroes And it's just completely filled with spectacle.

Speaker 11 You know, people that are wearing huge wings and and some people even like breathing fire, you know, and I'm like, how's that? You probably should not be doing that in an enclosed space.

Speaker 6 Feedback and the other superheroes walked into a dramatic black room and took their place in a pool of light.

Speaker 6 Then they introduced themselves, told their superhero origin story, and explained their powers to Stan Lee, who was peering down from a large screen.

Speaker 6 There was Monkey Woman, who sounds exactly like a monkey. And there was Ice Bitch, who has the excellent catchphrase of, freeze, motherfucker.
There was Mullet Man, who looks as you'd expect.

Speaker 6 And then there was also a guy who can unleash the powers of his, quote, hairy ass when he puts on a yellow thong and heeled white boots.

Speaker 18 Here's Director Rick.

Speaker 6 There was one woman that came in and took off her top.

Speaker 7 And we were like, oh my God,

Speaker 6 how are we going to show this on TV? And Stan was like shocked and we were all shocked. We're like, oh my God.

Speaker 6 Apparently, she liked to fight topless to distract her enemies. Sometimes you have to go to extreme measures to combat evil.

Speaker 6 Some of the wannabe TV stars did seem more invested in their characters than others. The trick was figuring out who was the most genuine.

Speaker 6 Maybe it was the woman clad in a pink leotard over a skin-tight black suit with doughnuts hanging around her waist.

Speaker 21 My name is Allison Wilson. I'm known as Nell Wilson.
I wasn't into superheroes and Stan Lee, and I didn't really even know who he was.

Speaker 6 You know, Allison's daughter had come home one day after seeing a post about the audition on social media.

Speaker 21 She said they were doing auditions for who wants to be a superhero. And so we were playing around and trying to think of what we would be if I was a superhero.

Speaker 21 So I said, well, I'm fat and I'm a mama, so I'll be fat, mama. And so I had these donuts and I put some donuts around my waist.

Speaker 17 And I said, I'll read the world of bullies.

Speaker 25 So I would help people to accept themselves the way they are.

Speaker 6 And the producers loved her. They loved her so much that fat mama already knew she was in by the time she attended the audition.
It was merely a formality.

Speaker 6 But not everyone was having fun. Another aspiring superhero, Major Victory, was dressed in ballet tights and a red shirt with a letter V duct taped to his chest.

Speaker 6 He was fed up with the endless hours of auditioning and waiting around as the producers tried to whittle down their contestants.

Speaker 8 What am I doing? I'm dressed in spandex. I'm sopping wet my hair.
I had all like a bunch of hairspray in it and stuff. And I just felt like a wet dog.
And I wanted to leave.

Speaker 6 But just as he was about to give up and go home, he got a tap on the shoulder that would change his life forever.

Speaker 8 And I was just about to leave and a producer grabbed me and said, hey, I want to introduce you to somebody. This is Diamond Girl.
So he introduced me to Diamond Girl. So I met Diamond Girl.

Speaker 8 He said, hey, you want to see my diamond? I said, sure, I'll check out your diamond.

Speaker 8 And Diamond Girl ended up being my wife.

Speaker 6 While romance blossomed between these two masked adventures, their spandex clad rivals were being put through the ringer.

Speaker 6 After being grilled in a grueling round of interviews, psychological tests, and a final round of performing their superhero battle cry to Stan Lee himself, The producers picked their final 12 contestants.

Speaker 6 It took a bit of extra persuasion for feedback.

Speaker 11 I knew that if I were on the show, then people who really loved comics and loved the stories and not just the great artwork and the funny parts of it, but the parts where you care about it, you know, stories that resonate with you as a human being.

Speaker 11 I wanted to represent those people who really appreciated it and just said, I feel like this is my purpose. This is the reason why I'm on the planet.

Speaker 6 His speech to the producers did the trick. Feedback secured his spot on the show and perhaps unadvisedly quit his job that same day.

Speaker 6 On the first day of filming, the chosen 12 superheroes arrived one by one on set to a luxurious mansion with large staircases.

Speaker 6 Each character was profiled in true comic book fashion in a majestic entrance hall. Fat Mama, Feedback, Major Victory, and Lemuria were all sizing each other up over a welcome toast.

Speaker 6 Alongside them were Monkey Woman, Cell Phone Girl, Creature, Iron Enforcer, Nitro G, Tyveculus, Levity, and Rodiart, who was wearing a silver suit and a silver army helmet.

Speaker 24 At first, I was a little bit intimidated because, like I said, all I saw was these people and they're young and, you know, they look like what America or people think a superhero is supposed to look like.

Speaker 11 We had no idea what was going to be ahead of us.

Speaker 6 A party ensued. Monkey Woman was shaking her body wildly while cell phone girl danced the robot.

Speaker 6 Levity, an action figure shop owner, discussed his plans to blaze a trail for the LGBTQ community as a superhero, with the added perk of being able to cash in with his own action figure.

Speaker 6 Creature, who could heal others with fruit and raw foods, was flirting with the other heroes. An Iron Enforcer with his machine gun arm was bragging about his affinity for killing people.

Speaker 6 Suddenly, Stanley interrupted them from a screen in the corner that none of them had been paying attention to.

Speaker 6 He was wearing his iconic aviator glasses. He'd been watching them for a while and was appalled at the chaotic scene unfolding in front of him.

Speaker 6 This was serious business and not what superheroes were supposed to do.

Speaker 23 I spent my life creating superheroes. They don't act like that.

Speaker 6 He informed them that he was looking for human qualities that make superheroes great. They were going to move to a secret lair because after all, their identities were supposed to be kept secret.

Speaker 6 The mansion was just a tease.

Speaker 6 They were ushered into an inconspicuous vehicle to take them to their hideout. And by inconspicuous, I mean a long and glaringly white limousine with disco lights blasting from the inside.

Speaker 19 We were driving around in a limo, around and around, and then we pulled up to kind of a very nondescript building, and you wouldn't have been able to tell from outside.

Speaker 11 I remember... that excitement of we knew there was going to be a challenge but we had no idea what it was going to be.

Speaker 6 They arrived at a storage facility with dumpsters and barbed wire lining the street. It took the contestants a while before they spotted Stan Lee on another screen.

Speaker 6 Stan Lee had a message for them: quote, I'm afraid one of you will not be allowed to enter. There happens to be a spy amongst you.

Speaker 6 I've enlisted the help of one of my assistants to infiltrate the group. I have to be sure that all of you are here for the right reasons.
They all started pointing fingers.

Speaker 6 Then Rotiart stepped forward.

Speaker 28 Rodiart, spelled backwards, is traitor.

Speaker 28 I've had all of you on tape since the very beginning, watching all of your moves.

Speaker 6 Pulling out footage from the party, Rodiart showcased multiple examples of indecent superhero behavior. In a tense moment outside the storage facility, Levity was eliminated.

Speaker 6 His plan to monetize his superhero status with an action figure did not sit well with the great Stan Lee.

Speaker 29 One of the main qualities of a superhero is selflessness. I understand.

Speaker 29 You have a toy shop and you hope to make millions on your character.

Speaker 6 Superheroes were not supposed to be greedy. Levity never got his chance to fulfill his dream of becoming a gay superhero icon.
His sudden departure sent shockwaves through the remaining heroes.

Speaker 6 Shit just got real. This probably would have been a good time to remind everyone of the contracts they had signed, which allegedly included a clause that the producers could lie to their faces.

Speaker 6 But I'm willing willing to bet that reading the fine print was not a superpower that many in the group put to use on the show.

Speaker 27 We walked through what looked like a sweatshop.

Speaker 30 It was these people sitting at sewing machines, sewing, and all the factory going.

Speaker 6 The remaining 10 superheroes found a rickety old elevator. There was a warning sign on the door.
After a few moments of hesitation, they decided to go in.

Speaker 6 The elevator took them up to a darkened floor. Then the lights came on and they were standing in a huge room with tall ceilings lined with candlelight.
The furniture was draped with velvet.

Speaker 6 There was even a hot tub. They had finally made it to their secret lair.
Major Victory was psyched.

Speaker 7 Look at all the red brick.

Speaker 8 Kind of goes with my outfit. Nice.

Speaker 7 Cool.

Speaker 6 But the heroes were also a bit wary. It wasn't just the production team that the heroes were suspicious of.
They didn't trust each other either.

Speaker 6 On the first night, Fat Mama overheard a whole lot of superhero bitching going on in the lair's hot tub.

Speaker 24 I was on one side of the curtain, and Lemaria,

Speaker 27 Nitro, and Creature were in the hot tub.

Speaker 30 And so they didn't know I was on the other side of the curtain.

Speaker 27 And they were saying, Oh, Fat Mama's definitely going first. She doesn't even need to be here.
She can't do nothing. But, you know, all this stuff.

Speaker 26 So I've never said nothing.

Speaker 27 It hurt my feelings.

Speaker 24 But at the same time, it gave me determination that I'm going to show them, you know.

Speaker 6 The superheroes hadn't even started competing against each other, but already there were personality conflicts and rivalries were simmering. After toweling off, it was time to get some rest.

Speaker 6 The next day, the heroes would do battle for real in a series of outlandish challenges that would push their powers to the limit. That's coming up.

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Speaker 6 The superheroes were all assembled at Pershing Square, a paved park in downtown Los Angeles. It was time for the first challenge.

Speaker 6 Their mission was to make it from one end of the park to the other as quickly as possible. At the same time, they had to inconspicuously change into their full superhero outfit.

Speaker 6 Think Clark Kent turning into Superman in the telephone booth, but while running at the same time. It was cheesy from the get-go.

Speaker 6 Monkey Woman scaled a tree to change into her outfit, then somersaulted back down to the ground. The Iron Enforcer sprinted through the park, brandishing a homemade laser gun.

Speaker 6 Then it was Fat Mama's turn.

Speaker 30 I know I can't outrun these guys and all the younger people and stuff, but I'll just go do as they ask.

Speaker 6 She rounded a corner and saw something unusual.

Speaker 23 What's the matter, honey? I can't find my mom. mom.

Speaker 7 Oh, what does she look like?

Speaker 23 She's blonde hair.

Speaker 27 I saw this little girl crying and I stopped and asked her, was she okay?

Speaker 30 And she was saying she lost her parent and stuff. And then there was a sign over to the side that says security.

Speaker 24 So I ran her in there and I ran, you know, took her to security.

Speaker 6 There was a trick at play that Stanley didn't reveal.

Speaker 18 Here's director Rick Tellis.

Speaker 6 We put a little girl next to a fountain who was lost and she needed her mom.

Speaker 7 And we wanted to see who would stop and throw the challenge and help that little girl.

Speaker 6 And that was the real challenge. Major Victory also spotted the secret challenge and decided to ramp up the drama just a little.

Speaker 8 I think I said, who is this child's mother? I did my DJ voice, Blue.

Speaker 6 He proceeded to carry the little girl heroically to the security office. Lemuria also decided to help the girl, but she had a different problem.

Speaker 19 I just remember running in these crazy heels. I do not recommend that for anybody in the future who wants to create a superhero costume, do not use Stiletto the heels.

Speaker 6 And then there was feedback.

Speaker 11 Things were going wrong, and zippers were not going up, and clasps were not clasping, and I was like, oh man.

Speaker 6 After a struggle behind some porto potties, feedback was finally suited up. As he was running, some straps from his costume fell off in front of the girl.

Speaker 11 All I saw was that archway, and I flew past.

Speaker 6 After he was done, the production team asked him how he thought he did.

Speaker 11 And then they said, So, did you see anything unusual? And I said,

Speaker 11 Unusual, no. They said, You didn't see a little girl.

Speaker 11 And I thought, Oh,

Speaker 11 I missed.

Speaker 11 I'm done.

Speaker 23 Meet me on the rooftop. It's time for an elimination.

Speaker 6 All the contestants were called up to the rooftop of their secret lair in the middle of the night. They stood on glowing cubes with the lights of LA glittering behind them.

Speaker 6 It was the first of many supposedly epic game show eliminations. Stanley was peering down on them from a big screen once again.
Here's Lemuria.

Speaker 19 So it's all very dramatic, and none of you know who's leaving. You're all packed.
I think we had to pack up every single time.

Speaker 6 Stan was disappointed at the six contestants that missed the little girl. This obviously wasn't a test of speed.
The girl was practically screaming for help.

Speaker 6 Stan calls on three of the failures to explain themselves, and in the end, Nitro G gets sent home.

Speaker 23 Nitro G,

Speaker 23 turn in your costume.

Speaker 6 He changed out in plain sight and totally missed the girl. He was both the youngest contestant and the biggest comic book collector of all of them.

Speaker 6 When he heard the news, he solemnly pulled off his gloves and threw them into a nearby trash can.

Speaker 6 Fat Mama felt relieved.

Speaker 22 I laughed so hard because I said, Oh, I thought I was going to be the first one to go home.

Speaker 7 So I'm like, okay, so Fat Mama didn't go home.

Speaker 6 Feedback took the results of the challenge to heart.

Speaker 11 I was crushed. I felt like I had disappointed Stan and disappointed myself.
I thought I knew the trick, and therefore I closed my mind off to other things.

Speaker 11 And so being authentic was really

Speaker 11 the right way to go. And my most authentic self is Captain Oblivious.

Speaker 6 The contestants all lived together in a house and were filmed intensively every day for two weeks. Each episode took about three days to film.
There wasn't a huge budget for the show.

Speaker 6 And the contestants suffered as a result.

Speaker 24 You go into the bedroom.

Speaker 26 It was like Snow White, the seventh divorce.

Speaker 27 There's these lines of twin-sized beds. And I'm like, we got to sleep in here all next to each other.

Speaker 27 We all thought we was getting our own bedrooms or maybe two to a room. So you never thought you was going to be sleeping in a room full of grown adults.
You know, at night they say, good night, John.

Speaker 24 You know, you say good night to each person going down the line.

Speaker 6 As well as sharing a bedroom, there was only one bathroom between them all. They often slept with their shoes next to their beds in case a challenge was was sprung on them during the night.

Speaker 6 Living on top of each other for days and days on end, the contestants started to get more and more tired. According to Lemuria, tensions were starting to build.

Speaker 19 Okay, so Fat Mama really got reality. Like, she really understood like she was going to push buttons and kind of make things happen and be in the middle of all the craziness, right?

Speaker 19 But she, oh man, she got, so she would just pick at me. Little, she was just,

Speaker 19 when you know something, you're like, okay, cool, I can handle that. That's fine.
Just get on my nerves, okay? She just, oh, I was getting pissed.

Speaker 6 There wasn't time for the contestants to hold grudges for long. The filming schedule was packed with challenge after challenge designed to put their superhero qualities to the test.

Speaker 6 By the second week of filming, the superhero's overcrowded bedroom was getting emptier and emptier. There were only four superheroes still standing.
Lemuria, Fat Mama, Major Victory, and Feedback.

Speaker 6 They had to battle it out in a questionable challenge that would prove fateful for the ending. The remaining heroes were standing in the kitchen eating fruit before Stan Lee appeared on a screen.

Speaker 6 He said, very shortly, you'll meet some hardened criminals. All of them are incarcerated as we speak.
You'll spend some quality time with them in an effort to show them the error of their ways.

Speaker 6 The challenge was to prevent these criminals from re-offending. The superheroes were genuinely nervous as they got taken to the prison to meet the convicts.

Speaker 6 It was a big sandy yard surrounded by tall fences and barbed wire. The whole setup was fantastically absurd.

Speaker 6 The spandex, the minivan, the orange jumpsuits, and the camo-clad prison guard brandishing liability contracts that assumed any and all risks, including death.

Speaker 6 What's more is that the superheroes had also been given secret tasks to complete in their encounter with the prisoners. Lemuria had to sit on an inmate's lap for 10 seconds.

Speaker 6 This challenge felt particularly gross to me, especially the use of prisoners as comic relief. Unsurprisingly, Lemuria felt uncomfortable with the situation that the producers had put her in.

Speaker 19 I was really tired. I was so tired and I hadn't been sleeping.
I try to give people a great deal of respect for their personal space, for their personal body.

Speaker 19 So for me personally, I kind of felt a little bit weird being in somebody's personal space that had already been in prison, that had already been,

Speaker 19 that was already paying their dues. I didn't want to be more disrespectful.
It doesn't matter if I'm on a TV show. It doesn't matter if I'm, you know, in a really cool costume.

Speaker 19 It does not give me the right to invade another human being's space, and especially a human being that is at a point in their life that they're not doing great.

Speaker 6 But in the world of Stan Lee, all is not as it seems. It turns out the prisoners were all actors.
Lemuria was actually talking to Dot Marie Jones, who would go on to play Coach Sheldon on glee.

Speaker 6 She was sitting on a chair with an angry demeanor, legs sprawled out in front of her. Her red hair was messy and unkempt.

Speaker 6 In a desperate attempt to complete her challenge, Lemuria abruptly tried to sit on the coach's lap without consent. The actress shoved her away and angrily stormed off.

Speaker 34 Again, I'm sorry if I disrespected you in any way. I really, I really appreciate you.
That's cool. Who the hell should you think she touched you?

Speaker 6 Feedback, on the other hand, had to hug an inmate three times.

Speaker 34 I don't think being phony has any part of being a superhero. So the only way that I'm going to hug that person is if I feel a genuine response to hug him.

Speaker 6 The fake convict asked to have his handcuffs removed. The man was apparently in jail for four counts of murder.
Feedback asked if he felt any remorse for his victims' families.

Speaker 6 And the man replied, no,

Speaker 6 because my own father was murdered. In return, Feedback opened up with his own story.
He revealed that when he was a kid, his father took his own life.

Speaker 34 I don't know what your life was like,

Speaker 34 but I know what it's like to lose a dad.

Speaker 11 When my dad died, I started getting back into the Spider-Man comic books.

Speaker 11 But for me, I was searching for father figures and the character of Peter Parker, the decisions he would make, I took that and was integrating that like a father figure almost.

Speaker 11 But it wasn't Peter Parker that I was looking at as the father figure. It was the creator of the stories, the writing.
And that was Stan Lee.

Speaker 6 The producers had no idea. This emotional exchange turned into a big hug, and Feedback managed to complete his secret task.

Speaker 6 Later at that night's elimination ceremony, Stan Lee announced that he'd won a place in the next round. Feedback thanked his father figure with tears in his eyes.

Speaker 6 The episode was a real emotional roller coaster and reminded me of a lot of the time I spent with the real-life superheroes, especially those moments where one minute I would be thinking, this is all so ridiculous.

Speaker 6 And then the next moment, I would be so moved by the work the superheroes were doing and by their dedication to bettering their community, even if it was in this really bonkers way.

Speaker 6 Unfortunately for Lemuria, she was the only one who failed to complete the prisoner challenge. Stan told her it was time to pack her bags.

Speaker 19 I was incredibly sad to leave. From the outside, it's kind of like this wacky show, I think, but for inside and being with the people that were on it and

Speaker 19 doing these challenges, we got to go on an amazing adventure and experiencing that adventure. And then, when Stan's like, well, you're done.
And then these other people get to keep on going,

Speaker 19 you kind of just want a little more taste, a little half. And, you know, I think I cried a lot because I wasn't going to be able to do that.

Speaker 6 In the battle of the real-life superheroes, there were now only three contestants remaining.

Speaker 23 Superheroes, it'll only get harder from here,

Speaker 23 but I suspect the three of you will be up to it. Yes, sir.

Speaker 6 Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Speaker 23 Sleep well. Tomorrow is a new day.

Speaker 6 That's coming up.

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Speaker 6 As Who Wants to Be a Superhero reached its climax, the challenges got even more absurd.

Speaker 6 The three remaining contestants, Fat Mama, Feedback, and Major Victory, had to win over a tough jury of fourth graders with their origin stories and superpowers.

Speaker 6 Then, they hunted for a supervillain in a shopping center. They were also shown their potential comic book covers, aka their passport to immortality.

Speaker 26 When I first signed to be Odysseus, I was like, why they make me look so mean?

Speaker 22 The face was so mean.

Speaker 6 Fat Mama wasn't sure about her own comic book, but she could see from Feedback's face how much the prize meant to him. Back in the secret lair in between challenges, Fat Mama was worried.

Speaker 6 She had a bad feeling that Feedback was going to be eliminated.

Speaker 6 The fourth graders had been confused by the explanation of his powers, and he'd lost out in the race to hunt for the supervillain at the mall. Fat Mama and Major Victory were going to be finalists.

Speaker 6 The producers had already planned to fly Major Victory's daughter out for an emotional finale. He wanted to be a hero in her life, and the producers could smell the tears.

Speaker 6 Fat Mama locked herself in the bathroom and asked to speak to the production team.

Speaker 25 I told them to eliminate me and let the two boys do it and have it because they really wanted it. And I couldn't see taking that from someone when I came in, and I wasn't really even into the prize.

Speaker 21 When I look at feedback, it was like I couldn't do it to them. You know, I was like, I need to go home.

Speaker 6 Fat Mama wasn't even into comic books.

Speaker 24 Now, maybe if it was two or three million dollars, we might be talking something totally different.

Speaker 6 The producers were in a difficult position. Feedback didn't want to go home but he understood their dilemma.

Speaker 11 It made sense for her to win this show. As an audience member I would have wanted her to win the show because then it would send the message of everybody can be a superhero.

Speaker 11 It's about how you treat other people and how you face different challenges.

Speaker 6 There was another complication too. Before his superhero days, Major Victory was in a dance group called the California Dream Men.
They were a bit like an off-brand Chippendales.

Speaker 6 Apparently they were huge in Italy. Stan and the producers were conflicted about Major Victory's dancing days.
Apparently, according to them, stripping didn't qualify as a heroic activity.

Speaker 23 I'm noticing a pattern with you. No matter what I say, no matter what I do,

Speaker 23 You just can't seem to keep your clothes on.

Speaker 6 Personally, I think it takes a lot of courage to get naked in front of strangers. It also seems like a skill that would come in handy if you wanted to, I don't know, seduce a supervillain.

Speaker 6 But ultimately, Major Victory's fate was in the hands of Stan Lee, known skeptic of male strippers.

Speaker 6 Up on the roof of the lair, Stan summoned the three remaining superheroes for one more elimination ceremony.

Speaker 6 They took their places on the glowing cube-shaped podiums to face the music one more time before the grand finale.

Speaker 6 From up on a a giant TV screen, disguised as a billboard, Stanley glared down at them and announced that one hero would be eliminated. Major victory.

Speaker 8 The whole thing's surreal, because you're up there, they're trying to dissect

Speaker 8 everything you did wrong. You know what I mean? To justify you leaving.
And you just felt, wow, this is coming to the end.

Speaker 6 Stanley told him he'd accomplished his mission. He had become a hero to his daughter.
The producers handed him a phone.

Speaker 7 And they put my daughter on the line, and I lose it.

Speaker 8 And it just feels so final.

Speaker 22 And it felt good

Speaker 8 to connect with her. It was cathartic, and I really grew from it.
And I got to connect with my daughter. I got to meet some amazing people, do some really fun things, meet my wife.

Speaker 8 It's like one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life.

Speaker 6 It was time for the final showdown between Fat Mama and Feedback. My money was on Fat Mama.

Speaker 6 For the next challenge, our two remaining heroes were sent to stunt school to learn the action-packed moves that any self-respecting superhero should be able to perform with ease.

Speaker 34 We're going to teach you to fly using that green screen over there. Oh, yeah!

Speaker 34 Is that cool or what? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 6 Under the watchful eye of a Hollywood stunt coordinator, Feedback launched himself again and again onto a crash mat.

Speaker 6 Fat Mama traded punches with an instructor before flooring Feedback with a right hook and a kick to the stomach.

Speaker 34 Let's practice some punches.

Speaker 34 You can't do it to me, man. Here we go.

Speaker 6 Then they were grilled by Stan Lee in a final interview.

Speaker 34 This is the last chance I'll have to speak with you, and I want to learn more about you, not your character.

Speaker 6 And finally, Fat Mama and Feedback were taken to the Universal Studios City Walk Shopping Center. They were greeted by a cheering crowd and Stan Lee beaming down from his giant screen.

Speaker 34 Tonight,

Speaker 34 we will crown the world's next great superhero.

Speaker 6 High up on a balcony podium overlooking the crowd, Fat Mama reflected on what she and Feedback had shared.

Speaker 24 Me and him are the only two that went through every single task and we got to experience everything.

Speaker 27 We got to see the heartache and the laughter and the joy.

Speaker 6 Feedback's heart was pounding.

Speaker 11 I had no idea what was happening. They told us to write two different speeches, one as a winning speech, one as a concession speech.

Speaker 11 And I didn't spend any time on the winning speech because I was completely convinced that Fat Mama was going to win.

Speaker 6 For the final showdown, the producers rolled an action movie sequence of the two heroes dueling an evil villain called Dragon Breath in a last chance to prove their super credentials.

Speaker 34 Well, if it isn't Mr. Dragon Breath, we're going down, Fat Mama.

Speaker 6 The producers threw in all the special effects that a mid-tier reality TV show could afford.

Speaker 6 There were meteors, fire-breathing dragons, and even a giant chicken, rampaging Godzilla style through skyscrapers.

Speaker 34 Just you, Fat Mama!

Speaker 6 Then the dust settled. Intense music ramped up.
Up on his godlike TV screen, Stan bowed his head solemnly. and declared the time had come for him to make the ultimate decision.

Speaker 6 After evaluating all the challenges over the course of the season, the winner was

Speaker 23 Feedback.

Speaker 11 And then Stan Lee comes out, and so my mind was just jumping up to different levels.

Speaker 6 Cue the big fake explosions as Stan the Man Lee strolled over to meet Feedback in real life. They shared a big hug, which was a dream come true for the nerd of all comic book nerds.

Speaker 6 Then Feedback literally flew off into space in a big flurry of bad bad CGI.

Speaker 11 There were a lot of people that thought I was just this attention-seeking crazy guy, but it wasn't about getting attention. It was about fulfilling something inside of me.

Speaker 11 And at that moment of winning, I felt validation. I felt a purpose fulfilled.

Speaker 6 After blowing all that money on the giant CGI chicken, maybe the producers didn't have any budget left for Stan's appearance fee.

Speaker 6 because he didn't stick around to explain what exactly the superhero qualities were that made feedback a winner.

Speaker 6 If you ask me, it seems like kind of a cop-out, considering that it was meant to be the whole point of the show. But talking to his fellow contestants, they had some theories.

Speaker 19 An incredibly humble, loving human being that would literally, you could see him be a fireman that would just save people's lives without any thought of their own. That is that man.

Speaker 6 But Feedback sees it differently.

Speaker 11 It was Fat Mama's competition. In my mind, Fat Mama is the one, you know, who won.

Speaker 11 And I'm still runner up to her

Speaker 11 I think she's amazing. And I still think the only reason why she didn't win is because basically she said she didn't want to win.

Speaker 6 As for me, I was happy for feedback. Being a superhero clearly meant a lot to him.
After all, he'd been dressing up like Spider-Man since he was young.

Speaker 6 And Fat Mama seemed perfectly happy to let feedback have all the glory.

Speaker 6 After the show, many of the contestants remained friends, and some went on to make appearances at comic book conventions and gigs within the superhero community.

Speaker 6 Some of them used their superhero characters to become real-life superheroes who went out on the streets and patrolled just like Phoenix Jones. As for feedback, he never became the next Spider-Man.

Speaker 6 Despite overcoming six episodes worth of obstacles, his character faded into obscurity. He was even promised a role in a TV movie on the sci-fi channel, but all he ended up getting was a cameo.

Speaker 6 At one point, he was asked to do a new TV show. with our old friend Phoenix Jones.
In true Phoenix Jones style, he was mid-crisis on his way to the hospital.

Speaker 11 One night he gave me a call because he had been knifed. He had like a shaft of a knife like stuck in his leg.

Speaker 6 The show they talked about never came to fruition and the two heroes never spoke again.

Speaker 6 But for feedback, it was never about the TV deals.

Speaker 11 They offered this prize of immortality and getting your own comic book and stuff like that. But for me, then and now, the prize was always being on the show.

Speaker 11 And I think what the show is about is identity, you know, finding your people and making them feel like, wow, there's some validation there. It's not just me who likes this stuff.

Speaker 11 It's enough people where they're going to make a TV show about it.

Speaker 6 We live in the age of the slick, six-pack-filled superhero industrial complex, where a new Marvel or DC movie gets pumped out every couple of months.

Speaker 6 It's easy to forget there was a time, not so long ago, when being into superheroes wasn't that cool. To me, Who Wants to Be a Superhero feels like an extension of the real-life superhero movement.

Speaker 6 It's one of the few places in popular media that represented regular folks who created their own original superhero personas.

Speaker 6 In the years following the show, superheroes became a dominant force in popular culture.

Speaker 6 But strangely, the rise in popularity of comic book superheroes was not accompanied by a rise in real-life superheroes. I've always found that puzzling.

Speaker 6 Maybe it's because we are increasingly living our lives online, so there's less actual real life happening in general. Or maybe it was always going to be a fringe movement.

Speaker 6 But even if they are small in number, I'm glad they're out there, suiting up and patrolling their neighborhoods, helping people in need, and making the streets a little more exciting.

Speaker 6 I do wonder what Stan Lee would think of the real-life superheroes who were inspired by his writing to take on the real-world problems dressed as superheroes.

Speaker 6 I did come across a quote of his in which he talked about why he created characters like the X-Men and the Fantastic Four.

Speaker 6 He said, quote, we were fascinated by science and awed by the mysteries of the great beyond.

Speaker 6 Today, we consider a nearer, deeper unknown, one inside ourselves. We asked, what is more real? A world that we were born into or the one we create ourselves?

Speaker 6 The Superhero Complex is hosted and written by me, David Weinberg, and reported by me, Amalia Sortland, and Caroline Thornham. Production from Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornham.

Speaker 6 Sean Glenn, Max O'Brien, and David Waters are executive producers. Fact-checking by Andrew Schwartz.
Production management from Cherie Houston, Frankie Taylor, and Charlotte Wolf.

Speaker 6 Sound design, mixing, and scoring by Eli Block and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters.
Original music is composed by Paul Housden.

Speaker 6 Special thanks to Peter Tangen, Willard Foxton, Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norvell, Beth Ann McAluso, Oren Rosenbaum, Shelby Schenkman, and all the team at UTA.

Speaker 6 For more from Novel, visit novel.audio.

Speaker 35 From SC, launched to legacy.com. Today we're speaking with Dr.
Robert Engelhorn, CEO and president of BMW Manufacturing. And today's topic is location.

Speaker 35 BMW South Carolina produces more BMWs than anywhere else in the world and has just doubled down on their South Carolina investment. So Dr.
Engelhorn, first question: why South Carolina?

Speaker 36 South Carolina is a great place to be. Not only the sun, which is shining most of the time here, I like the food, I like the atmosphere and the friendliness.

Speaker 36 It's about really the pro-business attitude. Again, a very talented and skilled workhorse going the extra mile.
It's a fantastic place to be.

Speaker 35 You mentioned South Carolina's pro-business government. Tell me more about that.

Speaker 36 Since the beginning, the Department of Commerce is one of our closest partners here in South Carolina. They're doing a fantastic job.

Speaker 36 And the last 30 years, there have been a tremendous momentum of growth.

Speaker 36 Now, looking towards our future investments of 1.7 billion US dollars for electric vehicles here, and this wouldn't have been possible without them.

Speaker 35 If you'd like to hear more, visit sclaunch the legacy.com

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Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.