Talk Tracks Ep 11: Tom Campbell's Theory of Everything Explains Telepathy

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Hi, everyone.

I'm Kai Dickens, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to the Talk Tracks.

In this series, we dive deeper into the revelations, challenges, and unexpected truths from the telepathy tapes.

The goal is to explore all the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, and yes, even unexplained things like psi abilities.

If you haven't yet listened to season one of the telepathy tapes, I encourage you to start there.

It lays the foundation for everything we'll be exploring in this journey.

We'll feature conversations with groundbreaking researchers, thinkers, non-speakers, and experiencers who illuminate the extraordinary connections that may defy explanation today, but won't for long.

Today on the talk tracks, we'll explore what happens when a NASA physicist starts having out-of-body experiences.

For Tom Campbell, it sparked a decades-long journey to bridge science and spirituality and to ask some of the biggest questions out there.

Why are we here?

What is consciousness?

Tom began his career working for NASA and the Department of Defense, specializing in large-scale systems analysis.

With a background in applied physics and deep research into the altered states of consciousness, Tom developed something he calls my big toe, or my big theory of everything, that blends quantum mechanics, metaphysics, and the nature of reality into one unified model.

His work invites us to reconsider what we think we know about consciousness, the afterlife, and the structure of existence itself.

Those listeners who come from a deeply religious background, some of this might feel provocative.

But this show is not here to provide answers.

We're here to ask bold, sometimes uncomfortable questions and to sit with the mystery.

In today's talk tracks, we explore Tom's theory of everything, starting with the question: Are we in a simulation?

And what I love about Tom is this isn't a rejection of spirituality or faith, but as another possible framework for understanding who we are, where we come from, and what might exist beyond this life.

So let's get into it.

I'm Thomas Campbell.

I'm a physicist and a consciousness researcher.

Been doing both of those careers now for about 50 years.

I'm an author of a set of three books, a trilogy called My Big Toe.

They are Awakening, Discovery, and

Inner Workings.

Awesome.

All right.

So, Tom, your theory of everything really proposes that consciousness is fundamental, right, to the substance of reality, not

matter.

And for those new to this idea, how would you explain the nuts and bolts of that?

That means that consciousness is source.

Consciousness is the thing from which all else then is derived.

So then one thinks, well, what about this physical world we live in?

Where does that come from?

Many scientists now agree that our reality is information-based, not material-based.

Quantum physics kind of tells us that, that it's information-based.

So you take those two ideas together.

Consciousness is fundamental.

Our reality is information-based.

And what you end up with is this thing we call the physical universe is actually a virtual reality.

That means a computed reality.

That makes it an information-based reality.

And the computer is consciousness.

The computer is an information system of which we are a part.

You and I, we're both pieces of consciousness.

And we log on to this human body as our avatar.

We make all the choices for the avatar.

So it's just like a virtual reality game that you might play, where you are the player and you make all the choices for the avatar.

So now you are the player as a piece of consciousness.

And this information system is also what you're from.

You're a piece of consciousness.

So you're a part of this information system.

Consciousness is basically information.

Consciousness is awareness with a choice.

So

the big picture on this is that consciousness exists and pieces of consciousness are kind of chipped off the old block, if you like.

Information systems can do all the things that consciousness do, which is it takes in information, it processes it, reflects that processing with its memory, and then it makes a choice, decides what to do with the information.

That's the way we work.

We take in information through our five senses.

We process that information.

We look at what our memory says about it, and then we make choices what to do about it.

So that's how that works.

Our bodies are computed.

They're just eye-candy so that the conscious can look and see what's going on on the mat.

And the virtual realities all have rule sets.

If you're playing World of Warcraft, you can't make your elf fly because elves don't fly.

The rule set of World of Warcraft does not allow elves to fly.

So you just can't do that.

Well, our rule set is what we call science.

What are the rules in the rule set?

And that's virtual reality.

That's what science is all about.

So that's a thumbnail of how you go from consciousness is fundamental to a physical reality.

And the interesting thing is that

when you follow the logic of this,

you also answer a whole lot of questions that are in both physics and philosophy and theology and a whole lot of other things.

And it's a very big paradigm shift.

So most people grow up with a paradigm in their mind from their culture that says this is physical, that materialism is the nature of reality.

Well, quantum physicists know better than that.

They know that material is not the basic thing.

So looking at this as a virtual reality is just a huge leap for people to wrap their minds around.

But the neat thing is that when you do wrap your mind around it, everything

becomes simple and clear.

It's a very elegant and very simple solution to all the big problems that are out there.

It tells us things like, why are you here?

What happens after you die?

All those big questions that nobody knows how to answer are then answered logically.

I've heard you describe physical reality as this learning lab, right?

Like Earth is kind of this learning lab within this largest consciousness ecosystem.

What are we here to learn, and who or what set up this experiment?

Well,

the larger consciousness system set this up because

what consciousness does, like all things

living and cogent, they

try to survive, they try to evolve, they try to grow, become more.

And to do that,

you have to have me choices.

You have to have choices.

You need an environment in which there are choices.

If you play the World of Warcraft, then you have choices.

Do you fight?

Do you run?

Do you become an elf?

Or do you become a magician?

By the choices you make depends on how life turns out for you.

Your life as it is right now is a summation of all the choices that you've made since you've been here.

So the system needs to evolve, and it evolves.

I'll have to be a little scientific here: it evolves by lowering its entropy.

What does that mean when you use entropy?

So, if you have chaos, if you have a lot of disorder, then you have high entropy.

The low entropy, the minimum chaos, is where people cooperate, where the individuals care for each other, where there's trust, where it's not what can I get, but how can I help?

So, that I call moving toward love.

So the purpose here is that we as pieces of consciousness need to have an environment in which there are very meaningful, consequential choices.

So

initially, we consciousness were just talking to each other.

We pieces of consciousness had communication.

That's the first virtual reality was communication protocols.

And then

we found out we just didn't grow very much with that because being in a big chat room just doesn't really give you a lot of choices that are challenging.

So the system needed a second virtual reality, which provided us with more choices.

So it got a set of initial conditions.

It got a rule set and let that rule set

determine how those initial conditions would change with time.

Now, I call that the big digital bang.

Other people call that the big bang.

The materialists do.

What that means is that

the initial conditions were a ball of of plasma, high temperature, high energy, very small volume.

And the rule set is what we call physics.

And when you hit the run button, you let those initial conditions change.

And when they change, you end up with suns and universes and planets and eventually us, you know, growing there.

And we're here to make choices.

And if we make choices toward cooperation, caring, helpful,

those sorts of positive things, then we evolve.

We increase the quality of our consciousness.

We lower our entropy.

And if we make the choices toward the opposite side, which is fear, so there's no trust, it's all about me, what can I get?

How can I take it?

How can I keep it?

Then we de-evolve.

So that's our purpose here is to learn to become love, to make choices that are love-based, that are caring, that are about other rather than about self.

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As you're talking about this, Tom, I just keep circling back to the overlap between your theory and then like spiritual or religious ideas, like the notion that these individual units of consciousness are actually souls, you know, and that this base reality where love and growth are the point resembles what many people think of as heaven.

So, I mean, to me, the parallels are really striking.

But,

I mean, I think what can feel so unsettling for people, myself included, is the idea of a simulation raising like these huge questions.

Like if this is all part of some sort of informational system,

then is there still a God?

Because I believe there is.

Is there an afterlife?

What actually happens when we die?

And where do we go?

Your conscience doesn't die when your avatar dies.

Obviously, you're playing your elf and your elf dies a lot because that's the nature of the game.

And when your elf dies, the player of that elf doesn't die.

It just either gets another elf or it reconstitutes that one.

If when your elf died, that was it, you were out of the game.

Well, nobody would play that game because it wouldn't be fun.

You know, so in order to learn, in order to be a better player of the game, in order to level up,

your elf is going to die a whole lot.

And you're going to come back and you're going to do it better next time, and you're going to be smarter next time.

So it's the same way it works with us.

Our job here is to become love by making better choices.

And when our avatar dies, then we are still that piece of consciousness, aware in consciousness space.

And

we begin to plan on what our next experience packet is going to be.

Or I say experience packet, others say reincarnation.

So you come back,

try it again, learn some more.

Now, every time

you go into a life, hopefully, if you are doing it right,

then you will lower your entropy.

You'll increase the quality of your consciousness.

And that's what you start with next time.

So you don't always start from zero.

You accumulate that quality of consciousness.

When you come back the next time, you start with that quality, but you don't have any memory.

You don't come back with the intellectual side intact because

if that was the case, all you'd do is game the system.

You say, oh, I know the right answer to that.

And you'd become a better actor, but you wouldn't become a better person.

So that's how the system works.

You do not die.

You as consciousness are immortal.

And the lifetime is

your chance to make better choices and to level up, if you will, become a happier, more productive, more successful human being.

So that's how that works.

Gosh, it just does feel like the concept of a soul.

But then that makes me wonder, if each of our souls or our individuated units of consciousness are always evolving, then does that mean that God is always evolving too?

I mean, if we're all like little drops in the ocean and those droplets are growing and evolving,

then

God would be right.

What I call the larger consciousness system is the source.

We're pieces of that.

You and I are individuated units of consciousness or chips off the old block, the old block being the consciousness system.

So

that system

is what many people call God.

It's intelligent.

It's conscious.

And

its evolution is improved by our evolution.

We're a part of it.

So if we evolve by making good choices, it gets some evolution too, because we're a part of it.

It's not supernatural.

It's natural.

It's a natural system.

It itself evolved.

It itself is still evolving.

It is not perfect.

It is not done.

It has to learn just like we have to learn.

Matter of fact, you can explain why the Old Testament was this angry, jealous, fearful God, and the New Testament's all about love.

Well, how do those two go together?

You know,

it looks like the first one was a God with a big ego and the second one was one without an ego.

It was all about love.

Well, that's because the larger consciousness system had to learn.

Just like we are here.

trying to learn from each other, it learned from us.

As it made these individuated units of consciousness, Its first idea was to tell them what to do and how to do it.

And of course, they had free will and disagreed.

And through its interaction with us, it learned that the optimal way to deal with other beings is through caring.

What can I do to help?

How can I serve?

That optimizes outcomes.

If you try to bully and be the dictator, that makes things non-optimal.

It just doesn't work.

Things go worse rather than better.

So it had to grow up as well.

So it's not perfect.

It's not

complete.

It's still growing.

It's not supernatural.

So those things that people think of, God, those attributes, it's not that.

But all the other things, the meaningful things, what are the real meaningful attributes of God?

It is all those things.

Yeah, I love that.

I guess with that in mind,

how do ego and fear kind of obstruct the evolution of consciousness?

And what happens energetically and structurally when a being moves toward loves and away from fear?

The two opposite poles are love and fear, not love and hate.

Hate is a product of fear.

It's love and fear.

And the way it works is that fear

creates ego.

That's the sense of me, myself, what's in it for me.

And it also creates beliefs.

You have beliefs about the way things are.

On the love side, it's all about other.

It's all about how can I serve?

What can I do?

How can I help?

It's those two opposites are really the struggle, if you will, that animates everything else.

I mean, if you look at all of our books, movies, our culture, it's the good.

Good versus evil is

kind of the fundamental theme of all things.

Well, that's really the fundamental theme in the big picture as well.

Most people are full of fear, fear of not being good enough, fear of not being appreciated, fear of not being lovable, fear of getting things wrong or being laughed at.

And those fears tend to dominate your choices.

The choices you make are mostly because of the fears that you have.

So that's making choices out of fear, and that's de-evolutionary.

What we're trying to do then is to learn how to let go of the fear.

And that's all you have to learn.

You don't have to learn something new to become love.

All you have to do is get rid of the fear.

When the fear goes, the ego and the beliefs go with it.

So that leaves you then

a being of love.

So it's about getting rid of fear.

That's the key thing that we're here to do.

And we express who we are at the being level.

At our core of us, we express that by our choices.

So the choices are love-based choices and we evolve our quality of our consciousness, lower our entropy, and we're happy.

We enjoy life.

We smile a lot.

We laugh.

We have fun.

When we don't and we make choices based on fear, we struggle.

Life is always a struggle.

How can you get over the next barrier?

How can you, you know, get to the next point?

Everything is difficult.

Life is hard.

It seems to always knock you down down before you can really get up.

And you have this sense of struggle and almost impossibility of being able to actually take charge of your life because there's so many other things pushing you this way and pulling you that way.

So that's what you feel like when you are making choices based on fear.

And what you feel like when you're making choices based on love is wonderful.

What's so interesting to me is, you know, your theory doesn't just echo physics, right?

But it echoes these like ancient wisdoms.

We have to lay down our ego and make loving decisions with our free will in order to evolve.

And actually, with that in mind, I would love you to discuss if there is free will.

Is that a thing?

Are we living in a deterministic universe or do we actually have agency over our lives?

Okay, yes.

Free will is a real thing.

And no, we do not live in a deterministic universe.

So let's look at that.

First, my definition of consciousness is

awareness with a choice.

So

if you have a choice, then there's before the choice and after the choice.

So there's time.

Time must be there too.

Otherwise, you couldn't have a choice.

And

if you have consciousness and choice,

you have to have

free will.

In a deterministic world, there is nothing to change.

It's all fixed.

It's all determined.

There is no growth.

There is no learning.

There is no evolution.

There is nothing other than what just exists.

Now, free will is not getting whatever you want.

That's not free will.

That's having a genie that has unlimited wishes.

Free will just says that of the choices that you know about,

you can pick one in order to go that direction.

If you get to a fork in the road and there's five different paths that lead from it, you get to choose which one you walk down.

And,

you know, at any one time you come to a decision point, there may be a hundred different things you could do, possibly, but you're only aware of six of them.

Your decision space is what I call your array of choices, it's just six.

That's it.

Your free will is just limited to those six, even though there's another 94 that you don't know about, you can't conceive of.

So your free free will is limited to those choices that you're aware of, and you get to make those choices.

So

you go to jail and you can't go home for Christmas.

That's one of those choices that, you know, that's gone now from you.

So there's things you can do and often your choices are limited.

They're limited by the choices you've made in the past.

We'll limit choices and you can do things in the past that make more choices.

So your decision space can go up and down depending on who you are, what you do, the choices you make, whether or not you're in jail.

So, decision space is very individual with people.

So, as far as your decision space, you're a middle-class person and you get kicked out of your house.

I might have six decision

spaces, right?

Like move in with my parents or go find someone else to live or go live in a van and go across the country, right?

There might be like six things,

but there's infinite opportunities you might not think of, like enroll in an astronaut program into to Mars.

Is that what you mean by that?

Is that there's a yeah, sure, there's lots of choices you have, but you are not aware of many of them.

You know, some of your work really overlaps with these ancient spiritual traditions.

And how do you see your theory of everything aligning or diverging from teachings like Buddhism or some of the indigenous ancient wisdoms or any Judeo-Christian faiths or even like Advaita, Vedanta, and people like that?

They do overlap and they overlap greatly.

And that's because there is only one truth, but there's thousands of ways to approach that truth, thousands of different metaphors that help people find that truth.

They all overlap.

They're just different words, different metaphors, different contexts, but they're all talking roughly about

the same thing.

And then before we segue into the next set of questions, I think it's important for you to discuss how you became an expert on consciousness.

I know you were a physicist and you worked at NASA, but then you started working at a consciousness lab under Bob Monroe, which, you know, was the early stages of the Monroe Institute.

And in your book, you describe leaving your body and having conversations with others who are meditating in separate rooms.

Can you talk more about those experiments?

Yeah, that was myself and Dennis Menerick.

Both of us worked together with Bob for like seven, eight years.

We were putting in like half time out there.

And that was Bob's idea that we try to go out of body, meet in the air just above the lab, because you could go anywhere you wanted to.

It's all intention.

So we met in the air and he wanted us to have some kind of adventure together, go places, do things, see things, talk to people, whatever, but always stay together.

And we were in soundproof booths.

There were three soundproof booths there.

There was one, two, and three, and I was in one.

Dennis was in three.

So there was one between us.

So not only were we soundproof, but there was a soundproof booth between us.

So we could not hear each other.

And besides, when you're in that state, you just whisper, you just talk very softly.

And

Bob was recording what we were saying individually.

And he was talking to us.

What do you see now?

What are you doing?

What's going on there?

And he'd give us a few minutes to do things.

And he says, well, now what are you looking at?

So he was collecting all of this data.

And we were totally apart.

And we had this long, probably two-hour adventure where we did talk to people, had conversations, went places, saw things.

And at the end, he asked us, he says, well, do you two think you were together?

And Dennis and I looked at each other and we said, yeah, it seemed like it.

And he said, well, listen to this.

And he had rewound the tapes.

And that time it was cassette tapes.

And he flipped both of those on.

So he had rewind them and started, which means we were synced in time.

And there we were.

talking to each other, having a conversation, answering each other's questions.

Oh, do you see that thing over there?

And you mean the yellow thing with the pointy top?

Yeah, that's the one.

And we were just having conversations.

And that was a big deal for me.

I stopped after that asking, is it real?

I knew that we were doing things that were paranormal and the probabilities that we were just lucky guessers and stuff were ridiculously small.

But it's different when you know it intellectually and you know it emotionally.

And I stopped asking, is this real?

I knew it was real.

It was no other explanation.

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And Bob got you into that deep meditative state through binaural beats, is that correct?

Yes and no.

He had his own sound that he had generated.

Bob took those binaural beats, included with his sound, and called it HemiSync and got a patent on it.

So that's where Hemisync comes from.

But that does help someone, right?

Like, does Hemisync?

Yes, yes.

If you listen to binaural beats,

you don't have to listen to Hemisync.

That's a patented thing.

You pay money for that.

If you just listen to binaural beats, I sell a bunch of binaural beats on my website.

They're very inexpensive.

And what it does is it puts you in a meditation state, a theta state, where your dominant EEG is theta, and it holds you there so you don't drift out.

So it's like you've been a meditator for 10 years, and it gives you the stability in a very productive meditation state, like you were a 10-year practiced meditator.

So yes, it's very valuable for beginners.

And so the first, so first it's like meditation.

Then if you're lucky with meditation, you can leave your body and astral project.

And then it seems like the next state of that might be, I'm just making these orders up, but it seems like the order it goes in might be connecting with other beings that aren't even on this plane.

It doesn't actually come in a series like that.

It's just you get it all at once.

Once you're able to get your mind to the state that you're in that point consciousness where you're no longer processing your body, then all you need to have is an intent of where you want to go and what you want to do.

And you will go there and do that.

Because now you're in consciousness space and you can teleport around just with your intention.

If you want to talk to certain beings, you can do that.

You just put your intent out there or who you want to talk to, what do you want to learn and so on.

And there it is.

If it's a dead relative of yours, then you can do that too.

Whatever you want to do.

And then eventually they become tools that you use.

It's really good to be able to do mind-to-mind telepathic communication, say, with your teenagers.

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And

if they're very sensitive, they recognize you when you do that.

But most people aren't that sensitive.

And they just,

to them, it's just their own thoughts.

They're just thinking.

These ideas just come into their minds.

And you can tell them things, but you have to be very careful.

If you try to manipulate them that way, it'll backfire because that's high entropy, not low entropy.

If you try to help them just by giving them choices that they can then have their own free will ability to accept or reject, then it works very, very well.

Can you expand on that and how your theory of everything accounts for what many people think are paranormal phenomenon, but are they really?

Sure.

Yeah, the paranormal phenomenon are just phenomena

within consciousness.

It's just normal consciousness.

It's not paranormal.

It's just the...

the normal world.

And

by being able to get into these altered states of consciousness, you're able to do many of the paranormal things.

Everything that happens paranormally happens in the intuitive side, not in the intellectual side.

One fact is that all consciousness are netted.

It's like the internet.

Every consciousness, including your dog and your cat, are all netted.

So they're connected.

Now you can open that channel or you can click on the X at the upper right-hand corner and make it go away.

You know, that's your choice.

Most people don't understand that, so they just are mostly open to whatever's there and they interact with it.

But anyhow, all consciousness are netted.

So this mind-to-mind communication goes on all the time.

Everybody

has this going on, but they aren't aware of it.

It's all happening beneath their intellectual level.

That's happening at their intuitive level.

And in our culture, we hone that intellectual level our whole lives.

We read, we learn, we grow, we go back and take courses.

We're always honing that intellectual level, but we completely ignore our intuitive level because our scientists tell us that that doesn't even exist.

That's why we have these savants

that

are good at doing paranormal things because they develop their intuitive side.

It's not that they're special because they have autism, but they can do things others can't do.

They just were in a situation where they had to develop that intuity side in order to get along, to connect to people in this world.

And anyone can do the things that they do.

You don't have to be autistic to read people's minds or do things like that.

So you can quite intentionally develop that side, and then you can connect mind to mind.

You can.

do all the things that are paranormal.

You can remote view.

You can go out of body.

you can get data out of the database.

And what about that database?

This larger consciousness system needed to create a database to enable it to run this virtual reality.

You need a lot of information.

You have to know everything that could possibly happen and the probability that it will happen because you need that information at your fingertips as people make choices.

because they're going to trigger one of those possibilities when they make their choice and you need to understand where where that leads.

So this database is created by the larger conscious system as a necessary component of running this reality.

Now, the Hindus have found that because it's there when you explore consciousness, it's just the information is there, so you can find it.

And they call it the Akashic Records.

But it's just a database required to support.

this reality.

And the Akashic Records is everything that could possibly happen and the probability it would.

And then as time goes by, that means it's everything that could have happened and the probability that it that it would have.

And then our history is just a little thread through that database.

That's what actually happened according to all the choices that were made.

So all that data is available if you'd like to know things that are in the past.

And the past starts just one delta T before after the present.

So it's kind of up to date.

If you want to know things in the past, you can go into the database and find it.

And if you want to know things in the future, well, the future's not done yet.

We haven't made those choices, but there's a probability of what is likely to happen and what that probability is.

So you can go look at the probable future database.

Okay, so I'm going to really test your theory of everything here.

So what about the power of intention?

Right.

I think many people, myself included, have profoundly experienced that your thoughts and intentions become reality and what we focus on deeply impacts the world around us.

So, you know,

can you account for that?

There's a feedback tool that allows us to create our own feedback to see how we're doing.

You know, a good school always gives you feedback.

Well, our feedback is that

you modify the probabilities of what will happen next with your intent.

And you do that whether you intend to do it or not.

What that means is that you see

the way the system decides what something new is going to happen and the way it decides what happens, it takes a random draw from a probability distribution of the possibilities.

That's how it determines what happens next.

So if you dig a hole in your backyard, what are you going to find in that hole?

The system does a random draw from a probability distribution of all the possibilities of what might be in that hole.

Now, when you do that, you're more likely to get the things that are more probable.

It might be dirt, rocks, and maybe a root.

If you're on the Gulf Coast, a gold coin.

It might be your grandfather's pocket watch.

All those things are probable, and what you get is what that random draw is.

So now,

what happens then in the world are these results of random draws from probability distributions.

I'm going to have a family picnic next Saturday, so I want it to be sunny.

So if I use my intent for it to be sunny next Saturday, then the probabilities of it being sunny go up.

The probabilities of it raining go down.

My intent modifies future probability.

Now when we get there, it's a random draw based on the probabilities at the time, and it still may rain, but you've modified the probability of rain.

And depending on how good you are at making those modifications, you can affect it quite a lot.

So that's, so you take all those things and you say, okay, what about remote viewing?

What's remote viewing?

Remote viewing is simply getting data out of the database about what exists at a particular place or at a particular time.

What's

mind-to-mind communications?

Well, that's just all of us are netted.

We're all on the same net.

You just have to intentionally be able to plug into

who you want.

What about healing?

How do you heal with your mind?

Well, you're just modifying future probabilities to be a healthier state rather than a less healthy state.

And you can change the probability more easily if there's more randomness in the situation than if there's less randomness in the situation.

So all the paranormal things are not magic.

They're not just big mysteries.

They're perfectly rational things.

Sometimes a remote view and I get it right.

And sometimes I don't.

Why is that?

Well, that's because It is largely affected by your own mental state, by your thoughts.

How quiet is your mind?

How focused can you be?

How long can you hold that focus?

What other things are going on inside your head at the same time?

Are you feeling happy and secure and confident or

are you expecting failure?

All of those things change the dynamic in your mental state.

So you can do it one time and next time you fail.

It's because your mental state is in constant flux and who you are and what you're thinking about is in constant flux.

So with this in mind, then, your theory of everything accounts for telepathy.

It's not something that seems out there or ridiculous.

No, no.

It's a natural part of consciousness.

All consciousness are netted.

So you can give people messages.

It's a really simple thing to do.

The key element behind it all is to get rid of

the interfering intellect, which always wants to jump in and analyze things, and to get all the noise out of your mind and to be able to focus your mind with intensity on a particular outcome.

Now, those don't sound too hard, but most people have a lot of trouble doing that and keeping that state steady for a long period of time, enough to have a conversation.

Anybody can learn to do any of the paranormal things, just like anybody could learn to be a concert pianist.

And Tom, I've heard you interview before, and you talk about how going outside of your body, going to various places with your consciousness is how you were able to kind of map this theory.

But you make it sound so easy in the book.

Like you can go out of your body in a few seconds.

I mean, do you think anyone can just learn to do this?

It takes some work and it takes a lot of practice and you have to be dedicated to it.

And in the beginning, it's a lot of process.

You relax, you relax your feet and your legs and you go through this whole thing.

It takes 20 minutes to get there, but eventually you can get there in say a tenth of a second.

You just shift your intent to a different data stream and there you are.

It takes no effort.

But yes, if you want to and you put in the time, then you can learn to let go of this reality, let go of all the sense data.

And then what happens is you connect to a different data stream.

not the one defining this physical reality, but a different data stream.

So an out of body is nothing more than a single player game.

Instead of this, this earth reality is a multiplayer game.

So you're just attached to a different data stream.

I guess one just basic question I have is, are you actually leaving your body when you're journeying, you know, or is it just an expanded view?

Like, can you see your physical body?

Like, can you turn around and see yourself there?

If you say, gee, what I want to do is to look at my body, well, you can turn and you can see your body lying in the bed or sitting in a chair, but you don't have to do that.

That's just what people believe is likely.

They believe they're coming out of their body, which they're not.

So if they're coming out of their body, then they ought to be able to turn around and see their body.

Well, if that's your intention, that's what you can do.

But that happens because people believe that they're coming out of their body.

Once you realize that's not what's happening, you're just waking up in consciousness, you're shifting your intention from this data stream to a different data stream, then you don't see your body because your body's irrelevant.

It has nothing to do with it.

Your body

is playing no part in this at all.

That's so wild.

So if you wanted to, when you are like this disembodied consciousness, I mean, that's how, I mean, you could kind of remote view anything then, right?

Like you could go into someone's living room and watch their TV.

Yes, you could.

But there's some rules about that.

This is not just the wild west where anything can happen.

Sure.

If you become a remote viewer because what you want to do is remote view the girl's locker room, that will probably keep you from really becoming a remote viewer because it's the wrong reason.

That's not on the path to growing up and caring and being a very positive person.

That's a user trying to use this for their own ego and their own beliefs.

And that doesn't work.

It's basically counter to the system.

So yes, there's a lot of things that you can do.

And if you practice enough to get really good at it, you probably will also grow up enough that you won't misuse it.

And those two things are kind of not compatible with each other.

So if you're a fearful person and want to do, want to abuse things, then you'll never be very good at anything paranormal.

Now,

there's some exceptions, depends on how hard you work and how much you try.

And if you make your whole life, you can still get pretty good and do things that probably aren't so nice, but it's a real rare circumstance.

And typically, you can only do that for a short period of time and then you crash and burn.

So it's kind of self-policing in that sense.

But yes, you can do that.

And a lot of the things when we were out at Bob and Rose, it would be going to somebody's house that you knew who they were and seeing if there was something there that would stand out that you could see.

Like I remember one time to go to the friend's house and I saw this pair of bright red shoes sitting right in the middle of the bed.

So I immediately come back.

I come, I call up the person.

I said, hey, I was just remembering and I saw some bright red shoes on your bed.

Did you actually have have bright red shoes on your bed?

And I found out, yeah, I just bought them today.

I just took them out of the box and they're sitting on the bed.

So then that's confirmation that what you saw was there.

So you look for things that are uniquely identifiable as something that you saw, that you could see.

With your theory of everything, I just think about it in terms of consciousness and Earth, you know, but like.

Does it account for this idea that there could be other dimensions or other life forms on other planets or other spaces?

Sure.

It talks about all those things.

You see, when you talk about life forms on other planets, you're still in this same virtual reality called the physical universe.

This virtual reality is not the only virtual reality.

As a matter of fact, anything out there that you can experience, if it's an experiential thing you haven't experienced there, that is a different virtual reality.

When you dream at night, it's not so physical.

You can teleport, you can fly, you can do all sorts of things.

You know, the rule sets a a lot looser.

When you go to this physical

reality, well, you have a very tight rule set.

Everything is

programmed by the science, the rules.

And so, yes, there's other places with tight rule sets that are physical, just like this.

And yes, you can go visit them.

And if you have a good working relationship with the larger conscious system, you can even get into them.

take on a body like the body that's in there and walk around and shake their hands and you know interact with them and that means if i can do that there they can do that here too so yes that's a possibility it doesn't happen much you have to have a good relationship with the larger conscious system to do it because it has to put you into the data stream that defines that other virtual reality so it's nothing that you can just crash on your own it's something that requires cooperation with consciousness system to be able to do that.

Now you can go to those other systems and listen, observe.

You just then are a disembodied spirit, so to speak, from their viewpoint.

And you can hear what they're saying, but they don't really see you.

And you can communicate, but then it's telepathic communication.

From their viewpoint, you're just a voice in their head.

So, yes, those kinds of things do exist.

It's not just this virtual reality.

Is the idea, though, that if when I pass and then I take on a new avatar, i mean do most of us continue to go back to the planet in which we're from earth you know yeah we mostly do and that's because we know the ropes here we you've been around a few times and this is kind of your your game it's like you could be playing world of warcraft and then the next time you're suddenly in the sims and then the next time after that you're in some car racing game But if you get good at World of Warcraft and suddenly end up at The Sims, you don't really know what's the point.

How do you level up?

What do you do here?

You know, what is there to learn?

So we tend to go back to the same game because the whole point is to level up.

You get better at the game and better at the game.

So when your elf dies, you want to go back because you've learned things and now you'll be a better player in that game.

But if you really don't want to, you're never forced to do anything.

You either just sit on the sidelines or you go someplace else.

And you end up in some other virtual reality making choices.

And you'll find that this one, the earth reality, is actually a pretty good one.

It's not a bad one to be in, regardless of current events.

And so the whole idea of consciousness and evolving is to have the lowest entropy system and love

and kindness and coordination are lowest forms of entropy.

So truly, all the world religions are correct.

That love and kindness are

more important than anything.

Yes,

that is true.

And they're low entropy, basically.

You can think working together, cooperating, that creates more good for everybody.

Whereas fighting with people, arguing and fussing and warring, that just creates more chaos.

Thank you so much, Tom.

My head feels like completely broken after this one.

So you all can learn more about Tom's work and his theory of everything and order his books at mybigtoe.com.

And for some listeners, especially those who recoil at the thought of a simulation, my hope is that you heard more harmony than contradiction.

What Tom Campbell describes, I don't think it's meant to replace faith, but to offer a scientific lens with which to explore it.

And at its core, Tom's theory affirms so many of the values at the heart of spiritual life, love and free will and compassion and growth.

and the idea that we are more than these bodies that we inhabit.

So whether you think of that greater intelligence as God, as consciousness, or as something unnamed, this conversation invites us to stay curious, to listen, and to consider the possibility that science and spirituality might not be at odds, but part of the same unfolding mystery.

So thank you for being here as always, and let's keep asking bold questions and holding space for wonder.

That's it for this episode of the Talk Tracks, but new episodes will now be released every other Sunday.

So stay tuned as we work to unravel all the threads, even the veiled ones, that knit together our reality.

Please remember to stay kind, stay curious, and that being a true skeptic requires an open mind.

Thank you to my amazing collaborators.

Original Music was created by Elizabeth P.W., Original Logo and Cover Art by Ben Kendor Design.

The audio mix and finishing by Sarah Ma, our amazing podcast coordinator, Jill Pachesnik, the Telepathy Tapes Coordinator and My Right Hand, Catherine Ellis, and I'm Kai Dickens, your writer, creator, and host.

Thank you again for joining us.