187. Wade Lightheart & Matt Gallant: Enzyme Fasting, Magnesium Science, NAD & Brain Training

It just hit me like the laws of thermodynamics.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed.

So I cannot create this energy inside me.

So I must be drawing upon something.

That's where the supplement comes in.

We're feeding the body a lot of raw materials.

The majority of what we face as human beings is not pathology or disease per se.

It's a lot of it is nutrient deficiencies.

The first symptom is people are stressed out.

And when you're stressed, you actually leach more magnesium.

Magnesium is really the best mineral to regulate your nervous system.

I am an enormous believer in the fact that the body's ability to heal itself.

You've got massive use of medications, over-the-counter stuff.

None of that stuff works.

That's something that the general public hasn't grasped, that the pill doesn't cure you.

It just mitigates a consequence, and then you're on the surface of the next pill, the next pill, the next pill.

Well, I think one of the biggest things people realize, holy shit, how much time am I spending thinking about food, preparing food, eating?

food, cleaning the food.

Yeah, as I say, don't worry about all the bad things that you're doing.

Just keep adding good stuff and eventually the bad things will fall away.

For someone that's just starting on their supplementation journey, but doesn't know really where to get off the ground, where does the average person start?

I would say ritualize it.

Make it easy.

I mean, you can start if you want to really be like on the more conservative side.

Start with a.

Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecca, where we go down the road of everything: anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between.

And today, I'm super, super excited because we are going to wander around the human body on everything-supplementation, gut-brain access, and everything that we can do to supplement from the outside to help us fix what's going on on the inside.

And I have two very special guests: Wade Lightheart and Matt Gallant from Biooptimizers.

Buy O optimizers, or let's let's settle this one right now because I have this debate with my team all the time.

Is it bio optimizers or buy optimizers?

Is it potato or is it potato?

Does it really matter, right?

It doesn't really matter.

Okay.

We actually bought the domain name with the two O's just in case people type that in.

Well, because the O gets so big, it's like buy O optimizer.

So I figure that was intentional.

Well, you know, we also worked around.

I wanted to do a big O with a little O in it and all these sort of things, and then that got mixed a long time ago.

All right, let's go a little hydrogen, a hydrogen gas into our waters.

So

you

have a career.

Oh, that's a hydrogen bomb.

He's getting serious.

Yeah, you know, I've been, I'm a hydrogen.

He wants to step it up.

Patrick Flanagan.

He was.

Patrick Flanagan, one of the original guys that

wrote a whole chapter in one of my books and did the foreword in a book I wrote years ago.

And so that's why I got turned onto this like 20 years ago.

Really?

And Patrick was into this like 40 years ago.

Wow, that's way ahead of his time.

Yeah, he was an interesting character.

So tell me, how did you two come together?

I mean, what was the genesis of bioptimizers?

As you know, I'm a huge fan of your sleep and magnesium formula.

And I, you know, I don't want to turn this whole podcast into a commercial for supplements, but I want to talk about your, you know, your backgrounds, what brought you to bioptimizers.

You know, what

I find to be a common theme in a lot of my my guests is that some of the most impactful people in the world, some of the most driven, passionate,

impactful people have solved the problem in their life.

Maybe it was

drug or alcohol addiction, and now they're really just a passionate advocate for that.

Or they had Lyme disease and they became a citizen scientist and they figured it out.

And now they're an advocate for

Lyme detox.

And so, what kind of road led you to where you are right now with bioptimizers?

Well, kick us off with how we met the first time.

I only competed once in bodybuilding, and I saw Wade as he stepped on the scale at the weigh-in and he flexed his lats.

I'm like, holy shit, who is this guy?

And then he won that show.

I was in the juniors.

Oh, really?

And right on.

We didn't know.

1997.

So we have a funny thing is like back in 97.

Back in 97.

It's like a kind of a little metaphor.

Like Al Bundy.

Yeah.

He would always talk about his high school days football, you know, with Peg.

So that was the first time I saw Wade, but then I was a personal trainer where his mom used to work out.

And Wade came back to visit his family.

And we just struck up a friendship.

He was living the life that I wanted to live.

He was in Vancouver.

I was in New Brunswick, and I was going to move to Vancouver.

And Wade's like, hey, man, come on over.

And

struck up a friendship.

Wade was winning national natural bodybuilding championships as a vegetarian 20 years ago, which is mind-blowing.

Wow.

Yeah.

Natural and vegetarian.

Yeah.

Wow.

So, and I was building stuff online, and I'm like, Wade, I think what you're doing is unusual enough that we can package this and sell it.

So we created a product called Freaky Big Naturally.

Freaky Big Naturally.

Yep, that was the genesis of our company.

Sounds like a really terrible rap song.

Yeah.

Well,

very late.

Yeah,

let's leave that one alone for a minute.

Some leftover the Diddy party or something.

So you create this supplement, Freaky Big Naturally.

Well, it was an info product.

Oh, an info product.

Yeah.

So it was successful right out of the gate.

You know, we literally started this company with 100 bucks and we were like doubling our money.

We'd go on Google Ladword, spend 100 bucks, get 200 back.

Like, holy, this is incredible.

Yeah.

And then Wade and I were really passionate about enzymes and probiotics.

And Wade, maybe talk about

Dr.

Michael O'Brien and how we learned about that because that was really a turning point for us shifting us from the bodybuilding paradigm to health.

Well, I think there's a couple elements.

Matt and I have been successful from the dynamic tension that's created between both of us and a shared passion, which is transforming people's health vitality.

We were both personal trainers

and he was a great marketer.

And I didn't know anything about marketing.

I just said, I'm just going to walk around shredded all the time.

That's my marketing, right?

It worked, right?

It wasn't very scalable, right?

He also approached things from more of a ketogenic side, and I was approaching things from a plant-based side.

And we were doing radical experiments on the side of that.

And so, but the one element that was really you know unifying for us, one, we came from the same part of the world, very rural areas, very humble beginnings.

He was on the French side of the river, I was on the English side of the river.

There's a lot of commonalities, and we fell in love with transforming people's health.

As a personal trainer, number one job satisfaction in the world.

If you do all the polling.

Is it really?

Yeah.

And I believe it's because you're getting that human-to-human connection where you're taking somebody and transforming something that they can't literally buy.

When someone has wealth, they can buy everything else in the world, but you have to develop the cultivation, the discipline, the practices, and the principles.

And because they're so time constrained, they need to trust somebody to take them through the journey, which is maybe their lifestyle's taken them out from.

And we had a passion.

We both had incredible track records from that.

However,

we knew there were some missing elements.

And after I competed at the Mr.

Universe contest back in 2003, I ran into a whole digestive health crisis.

I gained 42 pounds.

in 11 weeks.

Oh my God.

So I was in an inflammatory nightmare.

And we met this guy.

His name was Dr.

Michael O'Brien.

He looked like a cast off of cocoon.

He was just like in his 70s.

He had vibrant skin.

He gave a lecture, you know, six weeks after he had broken his back.

He didn't eat during the whole lecture.

It was 14 hours.

He had all this energy.

We're like, okay, I want to be like him.

And, you know, after the seminar, we went up and talked to him and I said, listen, you know, we've had all the success.

Something's went wrong.

I am supposed to be this ideal picture of aesthetic perfection, but something's not working here.

And he said something that

changed the course of our lives.

And he said, Wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in.

I'm going to teach you how to build the body from the inside out.

And he introduced us to the concept of probiotics and enzymes and special amino acids and antioxidants and gut health.

And then all of these elements, which were

pre, you know, way, way, way before the concept of biopacking or or methylation or

like he had just figured this stuff out.

He had overcome colon cancer, cirrhosis of the liver.

He'd helped Bernard Jensen's background.

Was he a scientist?

Yeah, he was a doctor and he ran three medical hospitals.

And then, of course, he ran into all of the same problems that people that are going fixing people in that industry have.

So eventually he fought in court.

you know, four or five times.

And eventually he said, I terminated all my stuff so that I can go off and do what I do.

He's actually referred to in Come Alive in Bernard Jensen's book of how he helped him overcome cancer and

metastasized to the bone.

It was a horrible case.

You know, he was

84 pounds at 78 years old.

O'Brien went in there and in eight weeks and one day had him cancer-free at 116 pounds and dedicated the book to him.

And so, you know, Bernard Jensen wrote the book.

And was this diet and lifestyle enzymes?

Particularly around hyperdose, massive dosages dosages of enzymatic therapy, a special strain of probiotics,

and then a few bit of antioxidant kind of delivery nutrients.

Wow.

And so, I mean, did he, so he was licensed to practice medicine or he was just in the middle of the media.

He was, and then eventually gave it up because he kept going before the board because he was curing people.

problematic.

Yeah, it's really good.

So anyways, so a shame, but he became a mentor for us and we literally, you know, became the best students we could possibly be and learned everything that we could.

We both went on his program.

Six months later, I'd recaptured my physique, but unlike just looking good, I had a new level of health, vitality, energy.

What was the retention from?

What was the water retention from?

Because for somebody who's been,

had been as active as you were and

bodybuilder, I imagine you're pretty disciplined about your diet.

You're pretty disciplined about your caloric intake and you're regimented and disciplined with your routine.

What all of a sudden flick the switch?

Not like you went off the deep end.

Well, I always think that you never want to reduce things down to a single element.

I would say it was a combination of elements.

In order to qualify for that show, I had to do a bunch of competitions, and I was in almost a perpetual competition diet for approximately two years, including the last 11 months.

I started my diet cycle, and then I hit that championship.

I won that.

I had to keep going.

I had to keep going again, keep going again.

And so the the caloric restriction, the

intense level of training, the specialized dehydration to go into the show.

And keep in mind, what was different than, say, a lot of biohackers or a lot of bodybuilders, because I think bodybuilders are the original biohackers.

Yeah, they are.

Bodybuilders are

as good, if not better, than most physicians at peptides or hormones.

And

we think that they're just these cavalier, just, you know, squirt all kinds of, you know, illicit drugs into their butt.

But

they're actually some of the more skilled.

I mean, they go and they read the research.

They're generally the ones that are more up to speed on their, on their blood work and their labs and things too, because they understand what's putting them.

It has to be.

Yeah.

Well, there's a couple elements.

First, they're trying to overcome two distinct factors.

One,

the genetic prodensity to store body fat.

They're reducing it to maybe a suboptimal level, but they're disrupting that genetic tendency and they're disrupting the genetic tendency to not build an excess amount of muscles.

In order to do that, you've got to get really clear about things, not only from the science, but also on your intuitive awareness of how things are working, making you feel and transforming.

Now, unfortunately, that's more to an aesthetic side and not necessarily to an internal health.

So for me, the whole bodybuilding journey, I didn't have the great genetics for it or things like that, but it became a point of reference and discovery and experimentation that I could apply things in a real-world environment, test them, experience them, say, yeah, that feels something.

Now can we find out how we can make that better?

Or who's the scientist that we can get to kind of bridge the gap between what I'm noticing, feeling, and understanding to what actually makes scientific sense and can that be deliverable to a grand scale?

And we had a passion about that because he had a whole toolbox that I had never seen before.

I had a whole toolbox that he had never seen before.

So we had these ridiculous debates, you know, like, you know, is keto better or plant-based better?

It's like, what about lipids versus carbohydrates?

You know, all those classic conversations.

We were having those 20 years ago, and it helped us round out our understanding of essential tools.

So let's go into the balance, you know, let's go down the road of the, you know, the enzymes

and

nutrient absorption because, you know, we talk a lot about on my, on my podcast, and I talk a lot about methylation, methylated nutrients, deficiencies leading to different,

you know, physiologic outcomes.

My audience is very familiar with that.

But

we don't talk a lot about enzymes and the importance of enzymes.

And one of the things that you said was:

this mentor of yours sat you down and talked to you about enzymatic reactions in the body and enzymes.

Because at this point, you hadn't started bio-optimizers, right?

You're just curious in your heightened state of awareness and wanted to learn in this field.

But what was the big aha moment that

when we started taking his enzymes?

and what were his enzymes they were just a blend of different i mean olypases proteases amylases yeah but when we started hyperdosing using maybe 20 25 capsules a day there was a little

25 wow yeah which is i'd say that's a mid-level yeah you can go i've heard of people doing that fasting too

yeah that's that is the key i've topped out at a thousand as an experiment I don't recommend it, but

you know, you got to have a lot of energy.

Really?

Yeah.

It's just certainly a high in a cognitive clarity that's really not.

So you take the high doses of these enzymes, assume like digestive enzymes, and

you don't eat.

So you're fasted.

You're in a prolonged fasted state,

but you're taking high doses of enzymes.

How long would you do something like that?

Well, here's some mind-blowing research that was done with some athletes.

You can cut recovery time with a lot of injuries by over 50%.

So there's a great book called Enzyme Therapy.

Enzyme Therapy.

One of the best books if you really want to get into all the research.

Food Enzymes for Health and Longevity is kind of a deeper dive as well on that one.

It's a great one.

But here are some examples.

Hematomas from 15.6 days down to 6.6.

Swelling, 10 days to 4.

Restriction of movement, 12.6 days to 5.

Inflammation, 10.5 to 3.8.

Unfit for training, 10.2 days down to 4.2.

And they did a bunch of research with boxers and karate athletes.

And if you take the enzymes in an empty stomach, they're going to go into your bloodstream.

And

when you're talking about the fundamentals of health of the body, it comes down to your body's ability to make proteins, right?

We don't even know how many proteins our body's making, but the estimates are it's over 100,000.

The building blocks of all that is amino acids.

And one of the amazing things with MassZymes is in the lab, there's an experiment called Infogest, where we can simulate the digestive system.

And when you take food with MassZymes, you're going to get 1,200% more amino acids in 30 minutes than if you don't.

So if you just took the mass enzymes.

Yeah, with food, 1,200% more amino acids in 30 minutes.

And again, these amino acids do all the things that we're looking to do, whether it's rebuilding our organs, recovering faster, et cetera.

And if you think about all the health problems that occur from allergies, inflammation, a lot of those are coming from undigested proteins floating in the bloodstream.

And if you can get proteases in there, it'll help break those down.

And of course, when we're fasting, we're trying to maximize autophagy.

And in our opinion, the enzymes accelerate that and take it to another level.

So when we're fasting, we'll do 50 plus enzymes a day.

Right.

So, so

I think people,

because they're called digestive enzymes, and we think of digestion as being something that happens.

For just for digestion, you know, digestive.

But you won't generally find enzymes in your stool.

So you get a systemic, it'll be converted into a systemic enzyme.

And that was one of the elements that we started to experiment with.

To draw a full circle from our original conversation where we started this, is why did I have that inflammatory response in the body?

Well, I was trying to adapt a mediating mentality to a vegetarian diet.

And I was bridging the gap using

low-grade

protein powder to try and bring it up.

Yeah, exactly.

To try and bridge that gap.

And so, by doing that, over the course of that time, I was also following a high-carbohydrate diet in combat, like simplified carbohydrates to create an insulin spike to drive amino acids for recovery.

So, I was creating an effect that I looked a certain way and have a certain fullness, but my internal state was getting destroyed.

And so, as soon as I stopped, you know, between all of those elements, as soon as I got out of the rigid discipline, the calorie restriction, the excessive training, the massive amounts of undigested proteins according to my system, my body went into a reactive phase.

So I see the inflammation is swelling as a safety mechanism.

After I gained 42 pounds, I actually felt better.

Really?

I felt better other than the fact that I can't move and I've like got sleep apnea and all these things.

But like my brain felt better.

And so it was like my body was taking that out of the internal states, depositing it into

a semi-element to deal with.

And then Dr.

O'Brien came in.

I put that in,

it was just like magic.

And so I saw the difference.

Over the course of four years, we coached about 15,000 people worldwide to do these enzymatic experiments and proteolytic probiotics.

You put in your mass enzymes in the powder form.

So when you say 50 times, you mean 50 scoops of that?

Okay.

So basically, just 50 capsules.

Yeah, 50 capsules.

You can open up the capsules.

One of the hacks, if you will, if you throw the enzymes in a protein shake,

when it gets to room temp, you'll start tasting the protein converting into amino acids.

Wow.

And one thing that's, I think, highly underrated is intra-workout nutrition.

People use pre-workouts,

you know, take energy, some caffeine, whatever, and then people do post-workout.

But there's some good research showing that if you're drinking and sipping on amino acids while you're lifting, you're going to recover faster, gain more muscle mass.

And it makes sense because as soon as you have strain or stress on a muscle tissue, the recovery starts immediately.

So you really want more amino acids in your bloodstream while you're lifting to maximize recovery, maximize gain.

Definitely agree with that.

So you can use two caps with your protein shake, and then again, you'll get more amino acids.

So even though you're taking a regular protein shake, just add the enzymes.

I'm still fascinated by this whole concept of fasting and

taking large amounts of enzymes because

the enzymes are not just, once they've crossed the blood-brain barrier, they're not just working in your digestive system, they're actually working in the blood.

Well, here's the conceptual idea for people.

You've got 25,000 different enzymatic processes, and they're discovering them all the time.

So everything from thinking to blinking requires some sort of enzymatic activity.

But a large amount of of our enzyme production is diverted to digestion.

We're the only species on the planet that eats our food in a cooked state.

All cooking destroys enzymes.

And so there's an advantage of cooking, storing, and all that.

So pasteurization, right, sterilization, whether they're all of those things are essentially making food so it doesn't decay, that gives it shelf life.

And there's a lot of advantages to it.

I'm not disagreeing.

But what we, if you have a cow or a horse eats grass in its raw state, a tiger eats, eats, it eats, you know, raw meat.

It eats the zebra in a live state.

A bear can go either way as a herbivore.

It can eat the, but it's always getting both the enzymes and the nutrients inside of that.

So there is specific enzymes to that plant or that animal that are being activated upon the digestive process.

So you're not just getting the nutrients, the protein, carbohydrates, the fats, the vitamins, and macros.

You're actually getting the enzymes inside of that.

And Howell outlines this with whales and cathospin activation when an animal dies and is killed and then it accelerates digestion.

But at the ultimate state, if you've got, say, 100, let's just use an arbitrary number, 100 units capacity of making enzymes in your body

and 80 of those are being used up because you have to augment your digestive process.

Well, you only have an availability of 20% of your enzymatic production to perform all of these other functions.

So, the value of fasting, and so we did this test ourselves.

We would look at changes in our bodies and everything when we would do fasting protocols.

And I said, okay, well, if that's true, then if I take a mega dosage of enzymes while I'm fasting, can I accelerate the benefits and the results or alleviate some of the liabilities of extended fasts?

And

across the board, it made it easier.

I felt better.

The detoxification was accelerated.

And it was much easier.

It was much easier.

It was so much easier.

And I felt so much better.

And for people that were doing, you know, I went through the whole process, starting with one days and then three days and then eventually moving up to a 10-day water fast only.

And, you know, I did all the juice fasts as an excellent thing.

And you just do like a little, what, a little mineral salt and then the enzymes, the digestive enzymes.

Yeah.

Because I've done everything except the digestive enzymes in a fast.

So I think that's what accelerates the mechanism of fasting: the freeing up of your natural enzymatic production.

So, what we're doing is we're augmenting it through exogenous enzymes, massymes, particularly that focuses on a high amount of protease because we feel that's the most bang for your buck.

And

just to back up what Wade is saying, they did an experiment looking at if people use enzymes, what happens to the liver?

And they found that one group that used enzymes, their AST levels were even versus the other group where EST levels went up, which shows basically, hey, let's relieve the liver from some of the work it needs to do.

The enzymes can do a lot of the work.

And just to highlight the criticalness too of enzymes in the body,

when you have a fever and your body's increasing temperature, at every degree Celsius, enzymatic activity is doubling.

So your body's trying to get more enzymatic activity to by raising its temperature.

Exactly.

And it is one of the things that I've read a lot lately about parents being advised not by pediatricians not to treat the fever in their kids.

Obviously, if it gets above 103 and you have

severe fever, but not to just freak out every time your kid has a fever.

And in fact,

purposely to let them ride through it, part of which is because of the increased in enzymatic activity, but part of it is this is our natural defense mechanism.

And there was a really good article written by a pediatric, a pediatrician

in Los Angeles that he tells

all of his female patients when they have children

not to try to break the fever.

Enzymes are a deep world.

Some people, for an example, and Wade's one of them,

they don't digest fats that well.

I know you're mostly a ketogenic guy.

Some people don't have, they don't produce enough lipase.

So for someone like that, using lipases will help them break down the fats into essential fatty acids.

And because, again, you don't want fats floating in your blood.

You don't want proteins floating in your blood.

Very true.

And the enzymes help with that.

And on the carbohydrate side, you will get, you can break down carbohydrates.

I mean, if you look at a banana, why does it go from green to sweet?

Because of the amylase that's breaking down the starch into sugar.

Right.

So again, athletes can use enzymes to get more glucose faster into their body, which, again, when you're working out, you want

glucose.

Yeah, that makes a difference.

Yeah, so the families, you know, proteases break down protein, amylases break down carbohydrates, lipases break down fats, cellulases break down plant fiber.

Right.

And I believe, this is totally a theory, but people are genetically predetermined about different sites of dietary strategies because of maybe enzymatic favorability or disfavorability in their element.

I could see that.

And so we would explore, and we tested that with each other.

It was a, and you know, he was like, fats, fats, fats.

I'm like, every time I go high fat, dude, I'm like, it's in my stool.

I'm not, and I don't feel good.

And, you know, he didn't like the high-carbohydrate-rich diet, which seemed to work well for me with a low fat.

And so we're like, well, how do we resolve this?

Yeah.

He was right.

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So,

I also,

you know, I am an enormous believer

in the fact that

in the body's ability to heal itself, I'm also a big believer in the power that this has over this, and that the majority of what we face as human beings is not

pathology or disease, per se.

It's a lot of it is nutrient deficiencies.

And one of the big ones is magnesium.

And I know that you guys

have lots of ways to help people with magnesium deficiency.

But I wonder if you might talk about the most immediate symptoms of magnesium deficiency and your experience

with just that

one simple light metal.

And then I'd love to go down the road

of other

nutrient deficiencies and what kind of expression of disease or pathology or what we would consider consequences of aging comes as a result of those.

Yeah, magnesium is really the best mineral to regulate your nervous system.

So the first symptom is people are stressed out.

And when you're stressed, you actually leach more magnesium.

So there's a vicious cycle that occurs when you have a lot of stress in your life, and especially if you're not consuming or supplementing with magnesium, you'll feel more and more stress.

And I'm going to rewind back to the origin, the origin story of magnesium breakthrough because both Wade and I were burnt out.

Wade was in Panama.

I live in Panama.

We were both, you know, working too much and we were fried.

Wade came over one day, and I have a neurofeedback machine.

I wired his brain, and his brain had less electricity than my 80-year-old friend.

Wow.

And I couldn't drink coffee anymore.

I'd drink a cup of coffee and I would just feel horrendous.

I'd feel frazzled.

My cortisol response was out of control.

Okay.

So Charles Polarquin

told us about, hey, if you combine different magnesiums, you'll feel better.

Yeah.

And then...

And I was taking magnesium at that time.

Turns out that I don't have the best genetics for absorbing magnesium.

And I'm on a plant-based diet, which could be disruptive.

And I was drinking caffeine.

Right.

So those are three elements that are also on top

of my ability to absorb magnesium.

And I'm going, I'm taking magnesium.

Why is my brain not working?

And it felt terrible.

I was like, oh, you can screw it up.

I'm screwed up.

Brain fog.

Oh, yeah.

And then inability to focus on trauma, like anger, explosiveness.

And that's not my, yeah, well, I'm not, that's not my natural state.

It's like just like go off or whatever.

And I was like, man, okay, dude, we got to check this out.

And we're big into neural feedback.

And that was like, okay, here's the sign.

How do we figure this out?

Yeah.

So I started combining four different magnesiums and really hyperloading.

When I say hyperloading, I got up to five grams a day, which is a lot.

But after five weeks, my baseline level was Zen.

It was a level of Zen.

Really?

Like just normal without meditating, without anything.

Told Wade about it.

He experienced the same thing.

And then I'm like, well, how can we take this to another level?

Let's try combining seven of the best magnesiums.

Let's add some cofactors.

And then we've built multiple variations or upgrades of the formula.

And it's one of the best-selling magnesiums in the world.

But that was the origin story.

What would you say it is primarily used for?

Is it

regularity, sleep and stress?

Because I notice when I take it, I'm very regular.

I'm usually regular anyway, but like.

Well, the magnesium pulls water into your intestinal tract.

I mean, you can use magnesium oxide as a flush.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, if you're fasting and you really want to clean out your bowels,

you know, because it just sucks so much water and this creates literally a flushing effect.

One One of the things that we try to do with magnesium breakthroughs to make sure that it's getting in the cells.

So we've done thousands of in vitro experiments measuring every single magnesium.

So there's two big things when you're looking at a magnesium product.

How much elemental magnesium is in the capsule?

Okay.

And the second thing is how much are you absorbing on a cellular level?

How does it list that?

Well,

you cannot

list the absorption.

Yeah, right.

But we just did our first animal trial.

And just to give you some stats, because the two most popular magnesiums is glycinate and citrate.

Right.

L3NA is pretty popular as well.

But

this is serum levels of magnesium.

It was 350% higher than glycinate.

It was 233% higher than citrate.

This is comparing magnesium breakthrough versus citrate

and glycinate.

And by the way, we've also, it's not released yet, probably next year.

Our chemist has created a new form of magnesium that crosses the blood-brain barrier.

It crushed L3N8 in the animal trials.

Wow.

So that'll be coming out next year.

We're super excited about that.

But, you know, I think what separates us as a company is

the level of scientific experiments that we do.

We have a lab with 20 people full-time.

All they do.

Every week is hundreds of experiments.

We set up these battery of tests for each type of product that we do.

And we'll do, you know, sometimes 18 months of in vitro experiments before we release a product

i don't know of any other supplement company that's doing that and we do that for every single product that we release and um and how do you decide like what then the next product is so if somebody's listening to this podcast and they're like these are all great little biohacks like you know i overdose on magnesium or i take a lot of magnesium so i'm um regular or i take these mass enzymes when I'm fasted and I get a better benefit out of fasting, maybe brighter cellular autophagy.

But for someone that's just, you know, starting on their supplementation journey, what would be your recommendation?

Because even someone is, you know, like myself, I go out on, you know, on Google, you get paralysis of analysis here at Resveratrol, Coq10, NAD, and Ashwagana, St.

John's Wart.

And you could probably make an argument for any one of those at any given time.

But

where does the average person in the populace start?

I think they need to start out by fixing their digestion first.

I think if you look at all the statistics, there's 100 million people that have digestive dysregulation.

You've got 12% of the emergency hospital

journeys now are gastrointestinal-related illnesses.

You've got massive use of medications, over-the-counter stuff.

None of that stuff is, you know, the New England Journal of Medicine says we're here to treat the symptoms of disease, not to cure them.

That's something that the general public hasn't grasped.

That the pill doesn't cure you.

It just mitigates whatever the consequence, but may have it sets up another standby, and then you're on the circus of the next pill, the next pill, the next pill.

So if you have, and when you're talking digestion, is getting the right diet that's right for you based on your genetics, do a basic genetic test, see what you need, identifying what elements to optimize your gut, reduce a bunch of the toxins and things like that.

You know, you know all about this.

You've been

doing that.

But when you say what elements to detoxify or repair the gut, like what kind of things are you talking about?

Because we know that the gut only has a single cell layer separating our inside environment from our outside environment.

We were talking before the podcast about

biofilm,

which I think if you said that to most people, they'd probably think of it as a negative.

Well, biofilm in the gut, basically, you have probiotics or bacteria that have colonized.

So they've literally created environments that they can live in.

Now, depending on which strains are in your biofilm, it's going to be either good or bad.

You can have

bad bacteria that have colonized and you're creating havoc.

Now, one thing that's interesting about probacteria in general is they have a 48-hour lifespan.

And I think one of the underrated benefits of a three-day fast

is you are drying out and killing a lot of the bacteria in your gut, which creates a powerful opportunity to recolonize when you start eating.

Right.

So think about it.

You can eat the right things, like kimchi, sauerkraut, the right strains.

Okay.

So the PhD that runs our lab, her PhD is in biofilm and probiotics.

Wow.

So we've done thousands of experiments, not just on the things that we sell, but other products.

We measure things like survivability.

So we do seven different experiments on every strain.

We test

which bad bacteria can it kill.

So for example, our probiotics breakthrough product, it will kill E.

coli.

So if you have food poisoning, it's undefeated.

We don't know of a single person that has had food poisoning that probiotics breakthrough did not solve it in less than 60 minutes.

Really?

And we know it because it kills E.

coli a lot.

We see that.

Wow.

Another big problem with probiotic products is a lot of strains will kill each other.

So if you're not doing the experiments, like if the formulators are not testing, hey, these individual strains.

Yeah, these are supportive strains.

Yeah, or the bifido killing the L.

plantarum and things like that.

You can create a formula that's just a mishmash of maybes in a bottle.

Yeah.

So that's another issue.

Mishmash of maybes.

What do they eat?

That's the other element, right?

Like what prebiotics that feed some bacteria is, which strains.

So, what is the prebiotic that's with that probiotic and how that bacteria is going to survive on it?

Because it works really well with this bacteria strain, not this bacteria strain, et cetera.

Well,

what is leaky gut?

Leaky gut is basically holes in the junction of your intestinal lining and food particles are getting into your bloodstream.

And again, going back to we don't want proteins and we don't want fats floating around.

So the solution is you need to use a probiotic blend that seals, that reseals your gut.

And the way you can measure that in terms of your biomarker is called zonulin.

Zonulin.

Yeah.

So you can measure zonulin levels.

If they're really high, you almost certainly have some level of leaky gut.

We had Dr.

Gus Vickery, we sent him some microbiome breakthrough.

He tested on 11 patients.

There was over a 90% reduction with all his patients that had high zonulin.

Wow.

And we know it in the lab.

What are some of the byproducts of high zonulin?

What are some of the downsides of it?

Well, again, systemic inflammation.

That's the big one.

Brain fog.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

The usual.

Yeah, you know, crusty eyes, bad breath, all those elements that show up.

These are always symptomatic of deeper issues that's going on inside of the body.

So, what happens in somebody's body?

That

let's say that you are deficient in magnesium, but you're also deficient in enzymatic production because enzymes are something that we produce

on our own.

And then those enzymes have like a lock and key mechanism that they use to fit to certain nutrients and help break them, help break them down.

So, like in your case, when you switched from being a plant eater to at some point being a meat eater, making that switch overnight or in too dramatic of a fashion could have been very detrimental.

Yeah, I went the other way.

I went

from a total meat eater to a plant guy.

And there was two method reasons for that is I wanted to test in the real world

some

generalized assumptions.

And

going back to the proteolytic enzyme aspect, if you look at most of the research, it's one gram per pound of body weight.

Right, right.

Okay.

I always ask, and I would ask the question, we would ask the question, well, how much of that was actually converted into the amino acids that was used by my body?

Nobody knows.

So yes, maybe I'm 200 pounds, I put 200 grams in.

And the assumption is it's a 200 gram conversion of amino acids.

You don't need protein.

You need the amino acids that are broken.

And then there's a process of breaking that down.

You need enzymes, hydrochloric acid, and proteolytic probiotics, which may or may not be present, especially if you've done antibiotics, you're getting older, you're not hydrated properly, you're eating a high-processed cooked diet, all those things are disruptive because you need more enzymes to offset from your manufacturing brand.

So, you know, if I go back to real world, I was eating 250 grams of protein to support myself at around 185 pounds in competition.

And I wasn't, the other element here is I'm not using anabolics.

or TRT or any hormonal aspects.

So I'm testing that in the raw.

I'm not being supported by protein synthesis.

We introduced the whole concept of proteolytic enzymes.

We developed that product.

Four years later, I went to the World Championships again.

I was in better shape, better condition, felt better, and I was eating 85 grams on a raw food, plant-based diet.

Wow.

So it wasn't so much that

the difference was I was able to convert that 85 grams into enough amino acids to support my training.

And I think that's where a lot of the variances come with different dietary strategies.

So when someone says that you need 0.5, and another one says says 0.8 and now this is 1.

I think it's what they're not identifying is, well, how well do you actually convert that?

Very much like your methylation story.

It's the same thing as, well, how well do you convert fats?

How well do you convert carbohydrates?

How well do you convert proteins?

And that's directly correlated to either your natural enzymatic production or your exogenous supplementation of those enzymes.

And so we said, hey, we can eliminate all of this.

We can be successful in two diametrically opposed diets using the same strategy to optimize for a change.

Yeah, so that's how we kind of hack that.

Yeah, and I think we need to change the story from protein to amino acids.

I know you're a fan of amino acids.

I mean, that's really what we want to get into our bloodstream.

It's not protein, it's amino acids, and that's where I think the proteolytic enzyme is.

And we talked about this yesterday, too, on Rogan.

I think that a lot of people still believe that we can target direct protein.

So I always say, you know, we can't, we don't need our nails to grow our nails and we don't need our hair to grow our hair.

But a lot of people think that we can just eat collagen and it'll show up as collagen in our skin and target directing it so that if I eat a bite of collagen, it doesn't just show up as collagen in our skin.

It's going to show up as amino acids, which may or may not show up as collagen, right?

I mean, it's going to go build collagen, last in fiber, natural killer cells, muscle, whatever you're going to build from the amino acids.

I am,

what it sounds like with you guys,

a much bigger fan of, you know, full-spectrum amino acids or all nine of the essential amino acids than I am of just overdosing with protein.

Yeah, I would say, like, one of our general philosophies when it comes to supplementation,

back to your original question of, you know, what should people take.

In a perfect world, you're giving your body the precursors, the building blocks that it needs, along with the cofactors, and then your body's just going to do the work.

Right, on its own.

Yeah, if you give your body all the amino acids, you're methylating well, which is obviously key, then your body can make all the proteins that it needs to stay healthy, to stay optimized.

So even when we build things like magnesium breakthrough, it's not just magnesiums.

We're using humic and fulvic because we know we've done the experiments, it drives more minerals in the cells.

Yeah.

Wow.

So cofactors, everybody's heard, anybody's look at supplements has heard of cofactors.

People are underrating how big and impactful cofactors are.

And we, we, I know that because we what are some cofactors, cofactors, common cofactors that people might be aware of?

Well, it always depends on what we're talking about.

Magnesium is a big one.

Yeah.

Magnesium is huge.

Over 300,000.

Enzematic reactions are.

300 to 600, right?

And

they help with so many different things.

And back to, okay, I'm a consumer.

I don't know what to buy.

I'm overwhelmed.

I think magnesium is a top three, top five supplement because if you're improving your sleep, everything in your life is going to get better.

Almost every single biomarker is going to improve.

I've been a sleep diva for over a decade.

Spent over $45,000 on custom-made mattress, Faraday cake, eight sleep machine.

I sleep.

Have them all.

Have a Faraday, have an eight-sleep.

I have the whoop.

Nano V.

Do you know the Nano V?

Is that the one you breathe in?

Yeah.

Yeah, I just saw that at a conference this weekend.

It's unfolding.

Yeah, that's great.

It does.

But if you go 45 minutes to an hour, you definitely notice a distinct difference in your recovery.

It shifts your nervous system into parasympathetic.

So

I'll breathe it in while I'm sleeping.

What exactly is it?

We don't know the secret sauce.

Well, basically, it's generating what's a concept called easy water, which is there's four stages of water, a solid, liquid, gas, and then a crystal

element.

And

by putting specific wave frequencies of light, you can kind of add this.

So, for example, when you look at this glass, if you look closely at the edge of that glass,

it starts to curve up.

And

there was a,

what was the doctor, what's his name that kind of broke that research down?

Pollock, yes.

What about Pollock?

Dr.

Pollock, shells, and the engines of life.

And he actually proved this, this tiny spectrum of water in this unique state, which he called easy water,

had...

an incredible array of regenerative aspects to the body because it increased protein folding and your cells do this.

And so, by the concept between that NanoV machine, is that if we can put that into our system,

then we'll be able to excel, we'll be able to put more of this easy water into our respiratory system, and that's going to trigger this increased protein folding.

They've did a lot of research on it,

and I was like, okay, just let me buy one and I'll try it.

And I really like it, but for me, you know, in a you know, a hard training environment, I really notice a distinct difference at 45 to 60 minutes if I'm on that.

And I use

the nozzle, you know,

and I got it on.

I'm

getting it in.

Yeah.

The exercise with oxygen therapy.

I do that with my parents.

But we got a nerd out on EWAT with Mr.

Newts.

We've built a next generation EWAT.

Oh, I'll talk about it after the show.

But back to protein folding for a quick second.

That is one of the drivers of aging: your body's ability to fold proteins gets weaker and weaker.

If you've never read the nine drivers of aging,

it's a great paper, outlines kind of the nine main drivers, and that's one of them.

And NanoVee could help.

But again,

how does your body fold proteins?

It sequences a set of amino acids.

That's the first phase.

And then it basically folds it, and then your body has a protein it can use for all kinds of things.

So if you're not folding proteins, you're going to start degrading.

So NanoVee can help with that.

So NanoVee helps with that, but also the enzymes help with that.

Yeah, that's correct.

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Now, let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast.

Getting back to where,

you know, a beginner would just start, because again, you can really get paralysis of anatomy.

Well, I'm going to use my parents because my parents'

parents are kind of, you know, they're just good examples.

And the biggest thing, and you know, for a long time, they didn't take any of our supplements.

You know, they're like, these are pills.

My parents, what is this?

Well, when they raise you, they're like, they know the.

What do these kids know?

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

But

the magnesium and our sleep product has changed their life.

My father doesn't sleep well naturally, again, genetic thing, which I think I inherited.

And he, it's it's just been transformative for him.

And they love the sleep products.

They use the magnesium every night.

My dad uses the melatonin breakthroughs, a new product coming out.

And then my mom uses sleep breakthrough, and she loves it.

Wow.

So to me, that's like the ultimate testimonial, having my parents.

Yeah, they're great testimonials, but I'm saying like the average person that wants to,

you know, start a supplement routine, but doesn't know really, you know, where to get off the ground.

You know, because if you walk into GNC or God forbid, get on Google, you're getting prowls.

You're down elsewhere.

I think really most people should start with a genetic test.

And I think they should spend the money

to get

a qualified person that can interpret that results for them and then identify where you're going to get the most bang for your buck.

Yep.

You're going to pay a little bit more on the front end.

Right.

Right.

But now, instead of randomly shotgunning and doing like we have,

who wants to do 40 years of experimentation?

There's a tremendous amount of fails in that.

And we we spent our tremendous amounts of money, time, effort, energy way outside the range.

This is our passion.

So I think if they go down that route, and the key element is making sure someone can interpret that results and provide it in a language where they can go, hey,

definable, easy, integratable, actionable steps that you do on a daily ritualistic basis.

So start with something small that you can do regularly.

And then, as I say, I used to do this with my clients.

I'm like, don't worry about all the bad things that you're doing.

Just keep adding good stuff and eventually the bad things will fall away.

And it's just slowly as it goes process.

But that key identifier, we didn't have that ability to identify what your genetic weakness is.

What are your levels?

What are the factors that are going to be?

You should be supplementing with.

Right.

Like, because my mom and my dad are completely different.

Yeah.

And I'm a hybrid, you know, the hybrid of those two.

And then no one, what happened to the mutation there.

They're like, I don't know what happened to you.

And I think genetic tests are awesome.

And I think you also want to be adding biomarker tests because

blood tests.

You need blood tests.

I mean, there's your genetics, then there's your genetic expression and your environment, what you've been doing.

And unless you're looking at your blood work, you're guessing.

So regular blood work is crucial.

I just did mine, and you know, there was some interesting stuff that I'd never seen before.

That if I hadn't tested, I might not have identified.

Yeah.

You know, it is amazing how interconnected we are, and how, when certain blood biomarkers get off, we just assume that there's some kind of disease or pathologic process going on in the body.

Like we saw all the time, you know, people that would have

elevated levels of, let's say, C-reactive protein and a nonspecific marker of inflammation.

And when you would just fix their methylation,

even these nonspecific markers of inflammation would go down because we don't really know exactly what's causing it.

Maybe it was protein folding.

Maybe it was the poor level of enzymatic activity.

But I just find that human beings function so much better when you give the body the raw material it needs to do its job.

Whole foods, regular protein servings for satiety.

Get the chemicals out, you know,

like start there.

Just if it's if it if you can't put it in the ground and plant it, or if it doesn't walk around on the ground, it's probably not that good for you.

And if it, you know, going back to Whole Foods for a minute, is there any evidence that um we can retrain the gut to produce its own enzymes if um you know if we supplement for a period of time um maybe even with the right probiotics then we can retrain the gut to actually well the probiotics do produce enzymes like probiotics are these metabolite factories right they're they're consuming some of the food some of them will you know break down proteins some of them will eat carbs and they're producing vitamins they're producing neurotransmitters we measured that in the the lab.

We have a half million dollar HPLC machine that will test.

And I know

you've been messaging a lot about this.

Yeah.

How many neurotransmitters, which neurotransmitters are each probiotic strain producing?

That is so fascinating.

Because you talk about the gut-brain connection.

There's your driver of mood.

Serotonin, 95% of it's made in the gut.

So if you don't have enough amino acids or you don't have those bacteria cultures, because you took some, you know, some antibiotics as a child because you were sick a lot, and now you never recultivated that strain for the rest of your life.

And, you know, now eating maybe protein-rich foods makes you nauseous and sick, and you don't feel very good.

And you get gassy and bloating, and you don't know why, and you're constantly depressed.

Well, maybe something happened way back in the day that never got corrected.

And the correction is relatively simple.

That's why I said always start with your gut.

Fix your gut.

That gut-brain connection is so deep, as well as that's the delivery system

to bring the nutrients nutrients to the factory.

This is enzymes are the trucks and

active units inside the body.

They're the workers.

Enzymes and probiotics are really the only things that do work in the body.

Everything else is material.

And when you say fix your gut, I mean, I think a lot of people are like, I just don't know where to start doing that.

I mean, I tell people,

you know, getting on a whole food diet, eating, you know, lots of sauerkraut and fermented vegetables and keyfirs and kimchi's can help a lot.

I mean,

I feel amazing when I just eat.

I have fermented foods every day.

Oh, you do?

Oh, yeah.

It's like our grandmothers knew what the hell they were doing.

All the longest-living health populations in the world use some sort of fermentation relative.

Yeah, you look at, you know, you get into the nattos in Asia.

If you look at the original stuff

in Eastern Europe, where they were looking at these long-living populations with special kefir.

I always thought my grandmother was out of her mind because she had this really crappy area of the basement with the creepy old wood shelves.

And

the member of the majority jars and all that.

yeah i had to press the top yeah i still get that i still do

we go down to the basement at my house when i go home it's like always press the jar and if it you know if it pops up throw it in the trash if it doesn't bring it upstairs that's right it's exactly we still do that and like you know as creepy as it was like now i want to get back to that you know the the pickled onions and all that everybody in my community did that there was four

uh centenarians on my street where

was this from a little place called hillsborough new brunswick really which is up by maine for those who don't know, way out there.

In fact, one of the ladies that followed that, she lives down the street from us.

She's 106 years old.

But we had four centenarians, and everybody had their pickles.

Everybody had their fermented foods.

Everybody had a regular garden.

Everybody had

a farm where they got their chicken or their beef.

They got their eggs from the guy next door.

So we're talking ultra-pure, raw, local-sourced foods that all these people are doing and doing these fermented foods and drinking water out of a well.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Genius of simplicity, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, very much so.

So,

you know, I think there's a couple of really great books, you know, by Dr.

Perlmutter on the gut-brain connection.

And

it's gut-brain access, gut-brain connection, and grain brain, which I found really fascinating.

And over the years in our clinic system, you know, we did not see, I think we had about 160,000, maybe 170,000 patients come through our clinic system before I exited.

And

I did not see or even hear of a single person that suffered from anxiety or other mental health related issues that did not also have gut issues.

Everyone.

It was the same thing in my own 2015.

25-year-old females that would have severe anxiety, they all had gut dysbiosis, all of them, and some pretty severe.

And it seemed to correlate with the severity of the

symptom, the severity of the optimism

with the severity of

their gut.

And

I coached thousands of clients, and that was the same observations.

Fix their gut,

go on a basic elimination diet, get the chemicals out of their system.

And

then there's other elements that you can add.

There's a whole

array.

That's where you get into mycelium and the various types of mushroom families that can also help augment for cognitive health and really down that rabbit hole as well.

And yeah, we can go down that rabbit hole.

But before we do, like, what's really exciting you right now?

I mean,

what are you guys doing in the lab?

And

man, you've opened up my favorite rabbit hole.

Because I know what's exciting me.

Well, right now it's trying to figure out the pyramids.

Like,

it has nothing to do with my.

Yeah, like my favorite thing in the world is always creating

something that's the next level of whatever rabbit hole we're into.

One of the things is we have created, it's a 10-day experience.

We haven't commercialized it yet.

We've only had our executives come in.

It is the pinnacle of brain optimization and

I'm going to say human transformation.

It's beyond.

It's evolutionary what's happening.

And you do five days of prep and then you do five days of hardcore, hyper-intensive neurofeedback, different modalities, and we're pushing the boundaries of,

you know, we're resetting the default mode network.

We're feeding the body and the brain everything that we can to increase BDNF, to maximize the gains.

We're almost using like a bodybuilder paradigm of maximization, where we're going to push the stimuli to the absolute limit using different types of neural feedback.

And then we're going to give the body and the brain everything that it needs to maximize recovery so that after five days,

your executive functioning is another level.

You're able to shift states on command.

Your EQ is higher.

Your level of consciousness is higher.

Your resilience is higher.

And you can measure that.

Like your cerebellum has about 80% of your neurons and you can train your cerebellum.

Wow.

So if your cerebellum, is stronger and I and I did a ton of cerebellum training on the last time, on the last round, My resilience, my ability to handle stress has just gone to the superhuman level.

There's no other way to say it.

And is this like an outpatient thing or is this a retreat destination?

It's like five people max.

We've been doing in Sedona and we have a whole team there.

Like we're doing IVs before to prepare.

We're doing hyperbarics.

Like we're doing everything that we can to maximize our physiology to handle the amount of training that we're doing.

Wow, that's so that's that's actually really yeah.

So that's the it's minute carries like you do that week and then you've got about two months adjusting to the new glasses because the whole lens of the world changes.

Yeah.

And then you got about another four months to what we call as full integration of your new capacities.

And then and then as soon as you're there, you're like, Matt, Matt, it's time to go back.

It's like a recession.

Dude, I actually want to do that.

You know, it's, it's, it's fascinating to me.

Sometimes I do these challenges and I'll take, I have tens of thousands of people on a three-day water fasting challenge.

And I would say for 95% of them, it was the first day that even fasted for 24 hours, much less for three days.

And of all the challenges that I've had, I think that was the one that we got the most amount of feedback from people that were just like, it just.

blew their mind

how much of a change they can make in three days simply by eliminating food.

But I think one of the biggest things people realize when they do a three-day fast is: holy shit, how much time am I spending thinking about food, preparing food, eating food, cleaning the food?

Yeah, because for no reason, you actually will just get up and like walk towards the refrigerator and you subconsciously.

Yeah, it's a subconscious driver that's just, you know, this goes into what I would say is

the big debate that's going to talk about what's exciting.

And that is

AI or what I call non-biological intelligence.

Oh my gosh, I will do that.

So biology,

we have an operating system that's baiting on, you know,

feeding,

fighting.

Well, you could put in the extra F, but it's replication, in other words, to push my genes through in time.

Fornicating.

Yeah, there you go.

That is the biological operation system, which springforce all of our cognitive, subconscious, superconscious, all of those activities are built within that biological platform.

And they call artificial intelligence.

I'm going, well, I think there's some uses, but we're really talking about booting up an intelligence platform, which I call non-biological intelligence.

It doesn't have those requisites.

So who knows how that goes?

Maybe it's corrupted by biology, but we don't know.

So there are certainly some interesting elements about how

that biological platform can leverage this non-biological platform because it strips out some of that, which you can come to some conclusions that maybe you can't because of those unconscious biases.

But then we don't know what maybe are some of the outcomes that that could have because very seldom

does

the stupid person control the smart person for a length of time, especially when it scales up exponentially.

Us as a species, sure,

we're at the epitome of it.

We're not stronger or faster than most of the animals, but we've become the apex predator because our ability to work in networks.

And yeah, and to reason.

And I think,

yeah, it's both.

scary and fascinating at the same time.

What did they say that AI has just reached?

It's the

where it's becoming self-aware.

What did they call that?

There's a term singularity is

a merge with the AI, which is coming.

Well, I think we've passed the event horizon.

Yeah.

You know, and so we'll see how that comes out.

And one of the reasons why we're going back to

why we're excited about this is because I think we're all facing

a challenge.

Why do you do this podcast?

Why are we so passionate about this?

Largely in part because we're trying to identify how to maintain

biological function with a dramatically

increase of these stressors, inputs coming into the system.

The amount of information you're getting, the amount of analysis, paralysis that comes in from all these data points that our ancestors didn't have to deal with, the sheer load of electromagnetic pollution inside of the system,

the deluge of biochemicals coming in, and all these things.

Then you wrap that under political and social conceptualities.

And what's happening, like in martial arts, the person who's fastest and going to, you know, get the most amount of moves can overwhelm that person's defense mechanisms and you're done.

That's why a trained person versus an untrained person, it's over before it starts.

Yeah.

And so why, you know, we're so excited about this is we have found a way to at least, at the very least, delay, but maybe optimize that transition.

using a way to accelerate our capacity to handle the inputs and still maintain our physiological equilibrium.

That's so awesome.

Because I think the biggest challenge, and I've talked to one of the smartest neuroscientists on the planet, and this is what he brought up as a concern.

Once we're fully merged, is can your nervous system handle 10,000 X more inputs?

Right.

Yeah.

What's even, yeah, even if you have a chip in your brain, how's your nervous system going to handle that?

Exactly.

That's going to be a whole new level of stress.

Yeah, we're going to have to upgrade the hardware, too.

Yeah, exactly.

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Now, let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast.

I want to go back this 10-day experience because

I love the

movement that is afoot right now.

That if you look at the greatest area of interest, fastest growing area of interest in the world, if you were to combine three categories of

longevity, anti-aging, which I would say are kind of the same thing, people use different terms, and bio-optimization.

You know, if you combine those, you have, I was reading a McKenzie report, you have the fastest growing area of interest worldwide, you know, in terms of likes, shares, forwards, comments, interest downloads.

And

part of what people are super excited about doing is going to destination places and having a wellness experience, not a massage and a facial and a foot rub, but a very

transformative wellness experience.

So I'm really curious, you know, what's entailed in this human-optimizing

10-day experience?

Yeah, so first it's it's five days of prepping the body.

We'll do 750 milligrams of NAD five days in a row so that you get mitochondrial fusion on day four, day five.

Because most people have just done, okay, I'm going to go do a bag of NAD.

Like 400 milligrams or five milligrams, which you're going to get an energy boost.

But when you do five days in a row,

there is a new baseline of mitochondrial power that's going to last about 60 days.

Wow.

Yeah, wait, wait, you just did it, right?

Yeah, it just got back.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, and I'm doing it when I get back to Panama.

I think doing that two, three times a year by itself is a great addition.

And I know you're a fan of NAD.

Oh, yeah, huge fan of NAD.

So how many hours does that take?

Well, six?

Yeah.

Depending on what your tolerance of, you know, allowing the NAD into it and what the quality of the NAD actually is.

There's a lot of

low-grade

elements in it.

And so I've seen people that'll take them, you know, three, four hours to drop a bag of $7.50 into them.

And then, you know, I've done it as

fast as 30 minutes.

But 750 and 30.

Yeah, but, but, but, but here's the thing.

But here's the thing.

You know, I remember the 30 minutes one felt easier than I was doing like recently, like at this last one I had, I hadn't had one in a while.

I was struggling on a couple of days.

It took me like, you know, two and a half hours to get it in.

And I was like, oh, okay.

And what's the feeling?

It's that nauseous.

It doesn't feel good.

It's like, oh, you're going to go fight through it.

So, but it's worth it because, you know, I came out of that.

Like someone just put me in a rocket ship and fired me up.

We were doing some other things, you know, some V cells and

V cells on that.

Yeah, yeah.

I love the V cell thing.

So we did that as well as some

personal peptides that, you know, one of the things that we do prior to it is we preemptively, you know, screen the person, make sure they're okay psychologically and physiologically.

They're ready to embrace this.

They're, you know, maybe doing a little bit of prep beforehand.

So they're, you know, on point coming in.

And then we have an expert that does some of the analysis and says, okay, here's some of the benefits you could get from doing your drips that week.

Plus, you know, we're doing some of the other tools like hyperbarics and all these other things.

So just

get the body prepped for, you know, we're going into, you know, inner space when you go into the brain training.

My wife's taking her PhD in neurofeedback.

And that's the last five days, right?

Yeah.

My wife's taking it.

I'm into this really interesting state.

So my wife's taking

her PhD in neurofeedback, and she's going to university to get this.

Meanwhile, she's like,

dude, they're not teaching this stuff at the university level.

Meanwhile, like, you know, she's seen some of the experiences that we're having as like full-on Kundalini body things and a massive gamma spike.

You know, really we're off in another dimension right and now we've worked up to it you know matt and i have been doing this for a number of years and gone through a variety of the different modalities that are out there because there's this big umbrella of neurofeedback and then under that is modalities yeah and then there is application of expertise so most of them are basically cookie cutter show you show up they have a technician and they run through it they don't have the expertise to actually isolate the particular elements within your brain and to customize a training program specific to both your opportunities as well as maybe addressing some of the liabilities.

Are they training you for what?

Are they training you to

start with a brain scan?

So the brain scan reveals

basically if you have too much hyperactivity in beta brain waves, for example, anxiety is usually a hyperactivity in beta brain waves in the prefrontal cortex, as an example.

But there's a lot of different brain pathologies that show up in that brain scan.

And then you build a program to basically start fixing, optimizing those issues.

Because, you know, and then you'll see it in the brain scans.

I mean, I've done 12 trainings.

12.

I've done this 12 times.

Yes.

And my brain scans now are you know, near perfect versus in the beginning, I had all kinds of issues, right?

Either hyperactive spots, flat spots, and those show up as

personality traits.

Five intensive days, like

there's nothing else you're doing for those five.

We're all together in a house.

We've got all of the therapies coming into the house.

We've got a chef in the house.

And the supplement stack would take two tables.

Yeah,

this is like five people, really?

It's like going in an F1 race.

You're loading up, and they got the pit crews, and they got the elements and they got all of that.

So that's it.

We have a world-class chef.

He was on tour with Beyonce and Jay-Z.

And of course, the food is

as great as it gets.

But even the supplementation that we use is

we basically...

When I started doing this, we were redlining and we were crashing and burning in different ways.

Really?

Whether it was...

You couldn't push yourself that hard.

Yeah, we couldn't.

So I'm like, okay, well, let me start optimizing.

The nervous system system was a big one.

Okay,

we need more fatty acids.

We need ketones.

You know, for example, adding 50 grams of ketone esters a day was a game changer.

Now we're playing with ketone acids, the next level of ketones.

So it's a laundry list of things.

We're using certain things that really take BDNF to the pinnacle so that your brain is as plastic and fertile as possible.

And another highly underrated thing is

resetting the default mode network because a lot of people are kind of stuck in certain perspectives and mental patterns.

But when you really reset your default mode network, it's like, whoa, I'm looking at the world with fresh eyes.

And it can start making new decisions and start to see relationships and their life decisions in

a fresh way.

You know, it's amazing.

You know, in my study of methylation, I found, you know, when you look at certain

genetic profiles, like ComTee, for example, people are either, they call them warriors or warriors, right?

And it has to do with how fast, how quickly, or how slowly they break down this class of neurotransmitters called catecholamines, these fight-or-flight neurotransmitters.

And as these neurotransmitters rise, you're feeling fear.

You might even feel anxiousness, anxiety.

You could even have rapid heart rate and pupillary dilation and paranoias.

And

there's nothing necessarily wrong with him versus you.

He just has a much higher level of catecholamine.

And I find that, you know, people with that genetic profile, which my wife has,

I have it too.

I'm genetically a worrier.

I'm a warrior, but I don't worry.

And that's that's the key point, right?

That's what I mean.

This would be amazing.

Yeah,

like I've, you know, that's where,

you know, we have our genes, but then there is the expression of genes.

And then obviously we can wire our brains in certain ways.

Just to go a little bit deeper, you know, if we look at the brain from a brainwave perspective, like right now we're in a high beta brainwave state, which is great for focus.

We're just alert and we're alert.

Okay, yeah.

If you slow your brain waves down, usually between like, say, 12 to 18 hertz, they call that region like kind of SMR.

It's like a flow state.

So flow state, you're alert, but you're, you know, you're not as alert as, say, or hyperactive as, you know, 20 hertz to 30.

Calm, kind of.

Well, then you get into alpha, which is 8 to 12 hertz.

So that's alpha.

So now you're calm but alert.

Your heart, you know, if you're in gratitude, and usually when people start meditating, that's the first stage in a lot of ways.

Like you start calming your brain down

and you're feeling, you know, and some of the hacks for that.

There's a few hacks.

If you're meditating, one, if you can activate gratitude experientially, like in your body, in your heart, your alpha brain waves will go up.

If you do forgiveness work,

you actually do forgive, your alpha will tend to explode.

If you focus on space, like outer space with your brain, your alpha will go up.

If you visualize, your alpha crashes, which is interesting.

Wow.

So when your eyes are open versus closed, if you close your eyes, your alpha should double automatically without even doing anything.

Then there's the Schumann frequency, which is like between seven and eight hertz, which is interesting.

It's kind of a hertz frequency.

But then you get into theta, which is like my favorite place, four to seven hertz.

You know, Dispenza has a great expression for that, which is your body's asleep, but your mind's awake.

Time dissipates.

You don't really sense time anymore.

So true.

And you merge with the field of consciousness if you get deep enough.

where

you're experiencing the field of consciousness.

Then below that, you got Delta.

Now, Delta, obviously, a lot of people have heard about Delta for sleep, but you actually can train delta.

And then you can even train infra-low, which is slower than delta.

You can train that too, which is a whole other story.

But the Zen master frequency is gamma, which is above 40 hertz.

And

when they put electrodes on Zen masters that have been meditating for 25,000 hours, that's their baseline.

They've been able to train that, develop that, and function in that, and wake and attest that

gamma is in a state of alertness.

Well, it's well, I'll let wade train.

Almost like not just even alertness, that's like an awareness beyond.

It's beyond.

It's like when those people are walking in

completely dark rooms and they'll walk around objects that they can't see or

they can say,

God becomes experiential.

Exactly.

What's on the other side of the wall?

God becomes experiential.

It's no longer a theory or a concept.

So I've been studying Eastern philosophy a long period of time and the various yogas and meditation techniques.

There's eyes down, eyes up, et cetera.

And the pattern I did is some people call it the microcosmic orgate, where you're moving energy.

So if you were to talk about from the brain frequencies to what you would experience, you know, theta is like a download into the system.

Alpha is like a broadcast across the system.

Delta would be like, you know, Darth Vader powers, you know, telekinesis, all that sort of stuff.

But gamma is

an organizing principle.

So it's an ascending from the base up through the nervous system into that, which is experiential.

It can become like a cobrahood.

You might have visualizations around that, and then some of the deities might peer up.

But other than all the visual aspects, which would be relative to your social structure, your religious structure, what you studied, all that element,

the

sheer amount of energy going through the nervous system

is extraordinary.

So,

you know, we could show you some pictures of literally

the efferent nerve system isn't able to contain it.

And the practice is that you want to hold that into the spine and take it through into the nervous system, which is what they are

experientially describing with the opening of the thousand-petal lotus, which means that all of the energy that is generally being running out into the nervous system to run all of the organs, because we're electrical-based beings, that inversion through polarity brings that energy up and through the spine and into the brainstem.

And from that, now you have, for the first time ever, full power in your brain.

And it's pulled in through the back of your head.

So sometimes, you know, I've gone through the experience of resistance.

So when you don't quite have it, you'll start getting resistance here.

You might feel a burning

sensation because you're pulled through polarity through focus here on an eyes up meditation.

So we have ways of unlocking and removing those blockages through different technologies.

Then you might get the crown of thorns where you're literally feeling resistance inside of your brain.

And then the electrical activity that you can measure on the EGEG is incredible.

Yeah, it explodes.

To prove it.

But

that's all the wonderful

stuff.

The experience is amazing.

Yeah, but it's coming from somewhere.

It's being generated, which I still find is so fascinating.

It is.

Well, I think part of the problem.

You have to be pulling from the quantum.

Well,

here's the element.

We've associated consciousness as being generated from the protoplasm, and that is a convenient separation from source energy.

Yeah, because you, but if you can't give, even if you just, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but

it just hit me like the laws of thermodynamics, right?

It says that energy can neither be created or destroyed.

So

I cannot

create this energy inside me to

create this type of EEG reading.

So I must be drawing upon something.

Well,

that's where the supplement comes in.

We're feeding the body a lot of

raw materials.

I mean, where do I get the 10-day experience?

Yeah, we're cool.

That's going to be the biggest seller on my podcast.

We call it metamorphosis because there's no word, I think, that describes the experience, the transformation, the evolution.

I'll give you my favorite testimonial.

He's our vice president, and he came in, and he was ready to leave his girlfriend because she wanted kids, and he didn't.

He saw his child on day four, and now his child's 18 months old.

He saw the child on day four.

And that was it.

Wow.

And then like complete transformation from, I think I need to leave her to this, I see the future.

And they imagine that.

And now he has it.

And how and how

does he equate the image of his child on day four to his real child?

I think it's

had exactly the same thing.

I had the exact same experience.

Well, we completely

banged a left turn in this one.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, I see we've got all the

magnesium mallate, magnesium aspartate in here.

But these are all

of these things, I think, are, you know.

kind of what you're talking about is what is the definition of the ultimate human we call it our process i'm going to ask you that question anyway so why don't we answer it now yeah well you are the ultimate ultimate human in the aspect that the fact that you exist

means by whatever proclamation,

the reality there's non-existence or existence.

So, the fact that you exist means that you're worthy, you're valuable, and you're this dynamic organism moving through time,

right?

That's the protoplasmic experience, and then you can

go beyond that.

The process that we're engaging in is to optimize that protoplasm so that it can access the full range of the human experience.

But there's a level beyond that.

That's what metamorphosis is about.

Accessing that element that connects everything as one singularity inside of the universe.

And once you've stepped through that rocket launch, it felt like everything in life that I've been doing my whole life was leading me to that ultimate experience.

And that's a gift.

And I don't have to operate from a position of conjecture or ideology.

I don't need validation from anybody.

I don't need to go to a religion or a sermon or anything.

Those are all wonderful and great.

And I'm not against, or I'm certainly an advocate of practicing whatever practices you need to get there.

But once you get to the final pinnacle, and it's like all you want to do is share that with as many people as possible.

And I experienced that in my health journey.

And now I've experienced it in my metamorphosis journey.

And I'm just grateful more than anything else.

Like gratitude is the number one thing.

And then that's also

also, you know, juxtaposition with empathy and compassion because

I see people suffering needlessly all around the world constantly.

I'm bombarded with it.

And you have to manage that in that, hey, I could help all these different people.

I could transfer these.

Like all they need to do is try, but you know, you can't force yourself into people.

And I believe in free will.

Yeah.

Very true.

Love, love what you're doing.

I mean, we, during COVID, we wrote a book called From Sick to Superhuman.

So we're on the same journey.

You're trying to get people from sick to what most people consider normal health, which in our opinion is you're just one step away from being sick to

really biologically optimizing health.

And then we're all, I think, striving for that

impossible ideal of becoming a real superhuman.

Yeah.

And, you know.

How would we define that?

Well, maybe superhuman muscle mass or superhuman, you know, low body fast, there's superhuman biomarkers, there's superhuman mental performance.

And, you know, we're trying to do our best to kind of push all of these to the next level.

And of course, you still have to operate as a human being, as a father, as a husband, as a business owner.

So, you know, I think being superhuman in 2025 is, okay, can I, can I be a good father?

Can I be a good husband?

Can I take care of my health?

Can I improve all of that?

Can I be a good CEO and feel good, you know, like not be freaked out and stressed out?

And I think all the things that you're doing, that we're doing help people.

I mean, look at Dana White.

Yeah.

You know, he talks about he feels like he's 15, 20 years younger, can do stuff he just couldn't do and was struggling to do.

So, I mean, I think that's the other underrated aspect of this whole game is you can extend your prime by decades.

Yes.

Right.

You could stay in the game.

Like, why retire?

I got a friend that's coming out with a book called Let's Retire Retirement.

You know, and I'm such a believer in that.

Like, you know, look, look at longevity, what happens when people retire when they don't have a purpose, they die.

No.

And I think the oxytocin change, the dopamine, the purpose that you get from pursuing something that excites you, that serves the world, I think it really energizes the body, keeps us young.

And doing all the health practices that you're advocating, that we offer

is just transformative every life.

I agree too.

Guys, this is amazing.

How does my audience find you?

Where can they find out more about you?

Where can they find out more about

Optimizers?

Go to Boptimizers.

Try our magnesium, which, by the way, we have a 365-day, no questions asked, money back here.

Again, all of our products.

35-day.

And our refund rate is 0.25%.

Wow.

Which blows away the industry averages by several orders of magnitude.

But try our magnesium breakthrough, try Mass Zymes, try sleep breakthrough.

I think those three

are incredible.

A lot of people love our mushroom product, mushroom breakthrough.

I use it every morning.

I've been transformative.

When you put it in?

I put it in coffee.

I love it with coffee.

Some people like it cold, but the cordyceps gives you a nice energy boost.

You kind of get another brain boost from the lion's mane.

The rishi kind of keeps you grounded.

And we have chaga in there as well.

Wow.

And you can put it back.

You're getting essentially 1.2 pounds, the equivalent of 1.2 pounds of mushrooms in a serving because most of the mushroom blends, they don't have enough of the dose to get the effect that research might element.

So

we use like 100 to 1, 50 to 1 ratios to get those four delivered.

And

it's one of those things that I've got to do.

I think I have that in my cabinet and I haven't tried it.

So the

mushrooms in the dose.

Devil's in the dose.

But you can mix it with coffee.

Yeah.

Water, whatever.

You can make it like warm water if you just like a straight hot chocolate, or you can mix it with coffee.

Or you can mix it into a protein drink.

It's already extracted.

Okay.

Yeah.

You're doing a protein drink.

Yeah, because

I'm actually trying to limit my, you know, my coffee now.

I don't know.

Coffee has much of an effect on me anymore.

It's more of a habit, you know.

But maybe I'll replace it with the...

with the mushroom in the morning and I'll take a little bit of

raw like goat milk put in there too.

It's just delicious.

It's delicious.

All right.

Super excited.

Our next big product is going to be electrolytes.

Electrolyte breakthrough coming out this fall.

We've been working on it for a while.

It's the next level.

So tell me you're going to have more than just magnesium, sodium, and potassium.

I think it's 74 minerals.

Okay, good.

See, this is what I've been talking about.

And optimize with the right ratios of sodium to potassium.

Everybody's sleeping on potassium.

Potassium is the molecule of hydration.

Yeah.

Potassium is a molecule of hydration, but trace minerals

are the molecules of

efficacy.

We've been down that for 25 years.

We've been on that one for a long, long time.

I call them like the radio stations on the dial of life.

Here's 101 at this metal.

Here's 100.

This is country.

This is rock.

This is R ⁇ B.

This is rap music.

This is symphony.

And those are free.

That's the frequency element.

And if you don't have all those minerals, you don't have the full band.

You don't have the full dials on the stereo.

Yeah, because I find that especially in marketing, a lot of products want to use

the one that the consumer is going to recognize walking on the shelf.

So sodium, magnesium, potassium.

They're like, okay,

as long as I have those,

I've got a really good electrolyte supplement.

But, you know, the truth is that, you know, we need all the, all of those,

the boring ones, you know, boron, manganese, molybdenum, silica, you know, they're all cofactors.

Iron, they're all cofactors.

Back to that big chart that I was saying, that a lot of times we are cofactor deficient.

So I'm super happy to hear that.

What else you got coming?

I mean,

we have, we've been working that I don't have that you guys have.

We just got some picks too.

Amazing.

We'll see what the final name is right now.

Just call it collagen breakthrough.

But back to what you were saying earlier around,

you know, you can consume collagen, and there's some good data coming out on that.

But with this product, we added every single cofactor involved in collagen and elastin production.

And we just did a trial with two men and two women.

And one of the women, it looked like she had under eye surgery.

It's mind-blowing.

So that

product's coming out.

probably late this year, early next year.

And yeah, we have a deep pipeline of products.

This guy that's on the couch here, Mr.

Newton,

he's an idea machine.

He's built a next-gen EWAT, which we can talk about off camera.

Really?

Yeah, I want to hear about that one real quick.

Yeah, like there's so many exciting things coming.

And we're actually building, probably one of the coolest things we're building, like actively right now, is the ultimate sound chair.

Have you ever tried a sound chair?

I have.

I've tried a Vemiacoustic chair.

So like infrared, near-infrared, and sound.

Okay.

So we're looking at Orla Shift Wave.

I've tried that too.

Yeah.

So we're looking to just...

create again the next dimension next level of it and then use it in metamorphosis so now when you're getting that your the feedback from your brain, we want it to be like a full body sonic orgasm.

And, you know, that's the goal.

Wow.

And is it just sound or is it other?

Well, it'll be probably just sound, at least a V1.

I'm considering also adding a hood.

So now we can, you know, basically hijack the visual system along with sound.

So we'll see.

But yeah, we want to use it in conjunction with the neural feedback.

Got to test it.

This is awesome, guys.

Well,

so I have a special group I call my VIP group.

This is the group that I just pour myself into.

And I always let them know who's coming on the podcast before they get here.

And then they get to submit some questions.

So we're going to go into this private room now with my VIPs

and they've got some questions for you guys because they knew that you were coming on.

For the rest of you guys, if you're interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com forward slash VIP.

You can sign up to be one of my ultimate human VIPs.

It's $97 a month.

Give it your money back if you don't get tremendous value out of that.

This is where we do live QAs, private podcasts.

I have a 10-month course in there that I was charging $1,700 for that I just gave to my VIPs for free, plus all kinds of discounts.

And I will convince these guys to give me early access to some of these great products that they're working on so I can let you guys try them first.

So if you're interested in becoming a VIP, just head over to theultamatehuman.com forward slash VIP.

And otherwise, that's just science.