Law, Leaks, and Left Strategy

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Hello, this is Victor Davis-Hanson and co-host Sammy Wink, and this is the Victor Davis-Hanson Show.

Our Friday show is always dedicated to the news, and we have a lot on our agenda today.

The first coming up is Tennessee Legislator Justin J.

Pearson and the Pentagon leaks.

So stay with us and we'll be right back after this break.

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Victor is the Martin and Ely Anderson Senior Fellow in Military History and Classics at the Hoover Institution, the Wayne and Marcia Busky Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College.

Victor, we always start the show these days with some good news, and I have a good bit of news, but I was wondering if you had any good news.

Good news.

Well, I continue to believe that the tide is slowly turning.

We've reached a, I think,

a, I don't know what we would call it, maximum woke or peak woke, where to continue any further would result in such anarchy that even the supporters of this bankrupt ideology are starting to wonder.

And

that's enthusiastic.

It's now spring in California.

although we've had a record cold March and so far April.

It seems that

storm or whatever was this term we use for these series of northern storms that have broken down high pressure and given us record levels of snow and rain are now over, and we're starting to get warm temperatures.

And now we're bracing for the second challenge.

That is the Tulare Lake Basin near where I live is filling up with water and inundating farmland.

And a lot of homes in this Sierra are threatened with flooding because there's literally

mountains of snow surround their roofs and on their sides, including my own.

And

personally, I think that after two weeks I'm getting over the mighty bee sting.

And when I see a bee, I give them the evil eye, tell them to get away.

That if they try to sting me, if they're a suicide mission, if that's what they want to do, it's not going to hurt me because I have an Epi pin now.

And

I'm getting back to where I was after

that little S-O-B sabotage on COVID recovery.

But I'm in a good mood.

So that's.

Well, I would like to add to your good mood that MPR is leaving Twitter over state media label.

I thought that was a wonderful story myself.

So no more MPR on Twitter.

So we hope everybody goes to Twitter and start their social media.

They're so liberal, and they're so liberal, and they depend on state funds, and they reflect the center-left ideology of this administrative state.

And yet, to use that term, state-affiliated media, it conjures up, you know, Pravda or Radio Beijing or in the Cold War or any of even some of the BBC stuff.

And that's what they don't want.

They just cling to this idea that they're entrepreneurial, independent, brave journalists on the barricades, fighting truth, untruth, disinformation, what they call misinformation.

The truth is they're subsidized toadies and psychophans.

And when Elon Musk, I know people don't like Elon Musk, but the way he dismantled that BBC interviewer and what he's did with

NPR, I would ask your, I ask his critics who are listening, who else would do that?

Who among us has been as effective as exposing Twitter, NPR,

the left as he has?

And I understand he's a controversial character, but it's pretty, he's not stupid.

He's very bright and he's kind of courageous in a way that somebody's going to say, Well, Victor, he's got billions.

Why wouldn't he be courageous?

Well, so is Jeff Bezos, so does Bill Gates.

They have such pressures among their elite cadres that they don't dare say anything

to the contrary.

So I admire him more so.

Yeah, me too.

Well, let's turn then to the Tennessee legislature and the the legislator.

Justin J.

Peterson has,

I think the funny part about him, he is the guy that marched with the crowd and his cries, according to speaking of

NPR, I went to them for this story, that there were cries of quote, show me what democracy looks like.

And then he said, this is the democracy that is going to transform a broken nation and a broken state into the place that God calls for it to be.

This is the democracy that is going to lift up the victims of gun violence instead of supporting the NRA and the gun lobbyists.

And that's the quote from

Justin from NPR.

I thought that was...

Where to start with his faker?

I mean, if you really believe that, why doesn't he go to Chicago?

where they're killing three to four and wounding 20 or so every weekend night.

All he has to do is go down the miracle mile or whatever you want to call it and just start talking like this.

Just go visit the neighborhood, get in a pickup on Saturday night with a megaphone and drive around and say, I'm going to stop gun violence.

See how long he lives.

And that is in a city that has a lot stricter gun control than does Nashville.

So what is this?

It's performance art.

That's all it is.

We have those really embarrassing quips when he was, what, a senior in college.

He had a butch haircut.

He had a, a,

he didn't have the revolutionary black patois.

He just spoke in kind of nasal, nerdy terms about, let's bring everybody together.

I'm a candidate, neither left nor right, Republican, Democrat.

That's shtick work for a while.

And then he saw, well, you know,

since he graduated, since that tape was made, which I guess was about,

what, eight years ago, he saw, oh, the country's gone woke.

George Floyd, the COVID pandemic, Joe Biden, all this.

It's time to grow out my hair and get a southern accented black

lingo, vocabulary, and intonation, and then be a real radical guy and appeal to the left-wing social media, Democratic Party, left, the bicosta parlor elite.

And he did.

And so what is he famous for?

He's famous for going in with a bullhorn and disrupting the democratic process.

And we were told that after January 6th,

that's insurrectionary.

What was more insurrectionary than what he did?

He tried to disrupt the democratic process.

And, you know, Camilla Harris, who has nothing else to do, apparently she failed as borders are.

She goes overseas and embarrasses us.

She makes videos about astronauts.

So she then, somebody at her age says, got to go to Nashville, pick up on that.

That's trending.

So she goes down there and then she gives a soapbox lecture about how he's on the barricades and he's a fighter for our sacred values of democracy.

And you think, wait a minute, this is the woman that said January 6th was what, worse than 9-11,

worst thing since the Civil War.

This is a woman who

during the George Floyd riots, if I'm not mistaken, right on the eve of the Democratic Convention, which was going to nominate her as vice president.

Remember, she said these demonstrations are not going to stop.

They're not going to stop and they shouldn't stop.

They're going to continue to the election.

They're going to continue.

So my question is,

who is Kamala Harris?

Is she the insurrectionist that's egging on Antifa and Black Lives Matter?

Or is she the establishmentarian who is trying to defend normality against the January 6 intruders into the Capitol?

Or is she back to revolutionary Kamala, egging on a legislature to go in with a bullhorn and disrupt the process of lawmaking in Tennessee?

And what's the answer to that?

The answer is there's one common denominator.

She has no principles.

She has no consistency.

She has no ideology.

Whatever she feels is useful or has some efficacy for the moment, then she adopts it.

If she feels a momentum after George Floyd is going to street theater and revolutionary looting and arson, then she's out there saying it's not going to happen.

If she says, Caesar's a a bipartisan revulsion against

January 6th, and then she's going to demagogue that into another 9-11.

If she thinks the Democrats are searching for something in the nadir of the Biden presidency, then she's going to flip once more and be a revolutionary again.

And that's all she is.

She's nothing.

She's a nothing woman.

Yes.

Quote the Beatles, paraphrasing.

There's nothing there.

She seems very

colleague of the left wing in general.

Yeah.

Yeah, nowhere.

Is that the question?

Yeah, I don't understand that.

I really don't.

So

you know, then we had Susan Rice that was lecturing at, I guess it was at Al Sharpin's network about how racist the DeSantis laws are because they want a disinterested textbook.

And all textbooks are approved.

How do they get critical race theory?

They got it in under the radar.

So when DeSantis says we're not going to teach that one particular group is inherently racist and is racist, then, today, and tomorrow, then all of a sudden Susan Rice says, hmm, nobody's heard of me lately.

I'm an important person.

I'm going to go demagogue that and say he's trying to ban books, and we're not going to allow this.

It's like the NAACP saying, we're going to boycott now the LGBTQ plus

community.

We're going to boycott

Florida.

You know, it's the same talk about if we lose the election, then we're going to move to Canada.

It's always promises, promises.

You know what I mean?

Promises, promises.

If you're going to boycott, boycott.

You know, Napoleon said to them, I think it was Soult or one of his marshals, you're going to take Vienna, take Vienna.

Don't talk about it.

If you want to leave the country, because

Donald Trump, then leave.

If you think Florida is inhospitable and you're going to virtue signal that you're not going to go there, then don't go there.

Move.

I don't understand that.

It's so strange.

All of this cheap social media posturing.

I'm going to rant today, so I have to calm down.

I've been taking some antihistamine.

Well, I've looked it up and it was Nowhere Man for the beat of spells.

Bruce Springsteen has the song Nothing Man, but I think...

that it's just emblematic of the left and why they get so mad at things like being called state media if they're NPR because they they're just chimeans they take on whatever

suit everybody should listen

Everybody should listen very carefully.

There's two things that the left hate.

And because they're true,

they're true identifiers of the left.

Everybody should use them.

One is they're racist.

So when you see

someone or you see Al Sharpton or you see Kamala Harris demagoguing or they're racist, you should say that.

Just say that.

And when

Barack Obama says that Trayvon

Martin was the boy who I never had, or looked like the son I never had, that's a racist thing to say.

You know, as I said earlier, that'd be like Bill Clinton saying after the O.J.

murders, she looked like the second daughter I never had.

What would happen if people said that?

This is not 1965.

This is 2023.

And this idea that there's a permanently victimized class that is suffering injustice every day from the majority population is not true.

And it's time for people to say, sorry, you're the racist.

You're obsessed with it.

You're fixating for career advancement and demagoguery for

your own, you know, your job, your security.

It's financially lucrative to you.

That's all it is.

And that's one thing people can.

And the other thing is, journalists do not want to be called what they are.

Todies, obsequious, kiss asses, appendages of the state.

And that's what they are.

That's what NPR is.

That's what

PBS is.

That's what CBS.

These are not courageous people.

When you see somebody who wants to,

you know, say something that

is not popular, like a Matt Talibi or something, then they go after him and they call him, I don't know what they call him.

But it's usually a good benchmark.

When the whole country was into the never Trump obsession,

It wasn't very courageous to be a never-Trumper and just join the left and say, ooh, you know, he's, and so that's what I look for.

People,

as they see the truth, as they see it and speak it, I'm not necessarily agree with it, but if they just are independent-minded, it deserves some respect.

And I can't see much.

I can't give that to any of them on the left, on the media.

They're just no, least of all Justin J.

Pearson.

Yeah, I mean, he's what.

So,

Mr.

Pearson, if

Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump gets elected again, again, right, and they have an overwhelming,

I'm not saying this is going to happen, but in 2024, if they take the House by 50 seats and they get 55 senators and there is a whole series of legislation and it works and the economy recovers and we regain our stature overblow, kind of like the Reagan years, then what would Mr.

Pearson do?

He's going to have another shtick.

He's going to cut his hair again and he's going to go on the view or something and or maybe the five and say that he wants to bring both sides together.

That's what he'll do.

He has no ideology.

He doesn't.

And it's so sad that these people look at this guy.

When he was ranting and raving, I didn't know what he was talking about.

It was just nonsense.

It was just God this and moment this and democracy this.

I thought, wow.

So you go in and you break up a meeting, you get a bullhorn, you take over the pulpit, you interrupt legislation, and you play the role of Claudius and Milo during the Roman Republic, the thuggery that goes on.

And then we're supposed to worship you as a defender of democracy.

Just because a bunch of left-wing elites in New York or Washington now find that you're useful for another month or two?

Sort of like this fellow that's on the

Budweiser commercial and has lost them, what, a billion dollars in stock value?

by having him endorse the beer and the where is it the sports bra?

Yes, it's the the sports, a sports bra.

I think it's Nike sports bra.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know,

if you come from another,

if you come from another planet and you just look at it, you say, here is a man wearing a sports bra

to

advertise its efficacy in sports.

However, to my, if you're an alien and you look at this from Mars and you say, but given what I know of this society, he is not a woman and he's not, has anything to do with sports.

So there must be a shortage of well-endowed women that compete because he combines no cleaverage with no sports.

And yet he's a spokesman for both and the symbiosis of both.

It's absurd.

And, you know, I really like the idea that Harvard graduate PR person that thought this up, she made little videos saying that this was to change the fratty images.

And no sooner had she done that than people released all these kind of Harvard fratty videos of her drinking out of a condom and all this frat stuff that she was engaged in.

And just really

a symptomology, isn't it?

About

corporate America.

They have no values.

They have no perspective.

The old days when you had a guy that was a CEO, like Newtson, World War II, or Henry Kaiser, these are tough guys.

You know what I mean?

They came up.

Yes.

They know how to run things.

These corporate people,

they go to MBA programs.

They come from privileged family for the most part.

And then they just, they don't, like those Disney characters, they don't really know

that are running Disney now.

They don't really know what's what.

So then somebody whispers in their ear, there's a new demographic of under 30 and they're really in.

20% of them think they might want a transgender.

We've got to appeal to them.

And then

she says, you know.

And it's a a disaster by six billion or six million dollars.

Billion, billion.

Billion.

Billion.

Oh, my God.

Billion, billion, billion.

And

what I didn't understand about it was, where were the feminists?

Because he was emulating women, right?

And I did this.

Mulvaney, is that his name?

Dylan Mulvaney?

Yes.

He was making fun of women.

I've never met a woman that ridiculous.

I mean, they have a much nicer voice than he is.

They don't run around like that.

They don't wear bras over no, they have breast.

And he was acting as if he's a real representation of women.

I've never seen a woman like that.

Women have dignity.

Women have a beautiful voice.

Women have, that's the compliment to men.

This is.

He was deliberately making fun of women, caricaturing her, I think.

He's saying, I'm going to transition.

Yeah, he was.

I'm going to act like people, stereotypes of stupid, silly women.

That's what I'm going to do.

And that's what he did.

And he got a lot of money out of it.

And

in

Audrey Hepburn dress of sorts.

And so he went around in his beautiful little suits that are probably not made by,

oh, oops, that company that always did it for Gi Vanya.

You know what was really funny about that?

They probably weren't made by Givenchy, but he did carry them off quite well.

I know I'm going to get your listeners angry, but

I like, I have to say,

Megan Kathy, didn't you say that

they should at least get somebody like Bruce Jenner that was dysphoric or that Dylan Levini was unattractive and

had no breast?

And

she really went on.

I really like what Megan's doing.

She's been very on

target.

And she, you know,

she just

like, you know,

well, if if he just said he demeans women, he makes them like infants, et cetera, et cetera.

Yes.

Which he does.

Yeah, he does.

So, Victor, let's go on to the Pentagon leaks.

I know that we had recent news today that there was a young man that was arrested for this, and he was a guard at the DOD, and that they caught him for leaking while he was gaming with some friends who weren't supposed to be talking about the things they were gaming on.

I've never heard anything about or don't know anything about gaming, but I was wondering your thoughts because these leaks were very important to national security.

Yeah, I don't understand this story

in so many dimensions.

I know it's just breaking, but

how did this guy get a clearance?

I mean, I think he's

in the Air National Guard of Massachusetts, right?

And how did he get access to classified U.S.

defense documents?

And he's 21 years old.

Do they have a million clearances?

They give them to anybody.

So he just gets this clearance because he's a guard.

And then suddenly he's,

I don't know what his specialized skills are, but he goes into all these computers and then he is in this kind of limited secret group of young men.

And suddenly he's disseminating this stuff.

And then nobody knows what's going on.

It's on the internet.

And nobody seems to care.

And then Joe Biden says, well, I don't think there's anything that was much useful.

I'm thinking, Joe,

this guy leaked the fact that we have troops on the ground in Ukraine, which you

had a Freudian slip earlier in the year when you said, I'm going to, these guys are going to Ukraine, and you corrected yourself.

And then your administration, with Ms.

Jean-Pierre, denied any

insinuation that we would ever have troops.

So he just exposed that.

He exposed other things that Egypt was selling weapons to Russia.

He said that South Korea, if they were going to give weapons, they were going to hide it.

He basically outlined in these CIA documents and analyses that the Mossad and some of the high command of Israel are basically ignoring orders.

by Bibi Netanyahu.

It's kind of like a coup.

Should I go on?

I mean,

what's what's more the Earthshadow?

And he said the Ukrainian

spring offensive is probably, according to our experts, is going to sputter out.

And there was a lot of stuff in there.

The second thing was, think about this.

Let's count, Sammy, all of the leaks and the reaction of the media.

The really important, well, there was a Roe versus Wade leak.

Remember that?

Before Roe versus Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court, it leaked out in a preliminary draft, and

it prompted people to illegally swarm the homes of the pertinent conservative judges in order to influence their opinions.

That is a felony.

And, of course, Marlotte Garland is aiding and betting.

He didn't prosecute anybody, but an assassin turned up.

So that is an important story.

Remember the assassin?

Oh, by the way, Sammy, we were not told that the assassin,

I don't care, but they apparently fixate on every profile.

And they said that there was just an assassin at Tech.

He was transgender.

So a transgendered

would-be assassin showed up at the home of Kavanaugh, thinking about killing him as part of a larger protest that was sparked by a leak

from someone.

in the Supreme Court.

And believe me, Sammy, there's not a million people that have access to private drafts of the nine justices.

There's probably 40 or 50.

How hard is it to find that person who committed that felony?

And they haven't found him.

They have no idea who he was.

And we,

if that person was some right-wing nut, they would have had him tomorrow.

How about James Comey?

How hard is it to say, James Comey, let me get this straight.

You had a private conversation with the President of the United States, just the two of you.

After the conversation was over, you went out and on a FBI-U.S.

government device that was not your own, you memorialized it on that electronic device.

Then you took that data and you gave it to a friend with the express instruction to leak it to the New York Times to hide your fingerprints to a third party.

And the purpose was, according to your own testimony, that you were going to prompt the appointment of a special counsel, which did happen.

So your gamut, Mr.

Comey, of

illegally leaking confidential or classified documents through a third party to the New York Times to print the story about Trump's supposed Russian collusionary habits, proclivities, then prompted your friend and predecessor, Robert Mueller, to be FBI, former FBI director, to be special counsel.

And then we were off to the races for 22 months and 40 years.

Did anything ever happen to him?

No.

No.

Do we ever know?

Do you remember in September, two years,

three years, four years ago, there was anonymous, remember that?

The New York Times ran an op-ed from a leaker and an obstructor in the Trump administration.

We were told he was, quote, a high administration official.

He was passed off, if you read his two op-eds, as the moral consciousness of the left.

And he was so angry at Donald Trump's illiberal tendencies and temperament that he said in his op ah that he was going to obstruct the workings of government to the degree he could when he found, in his opinion, i.e., analogous to later Mark Milley, that they were

that they were improper, unlawful, I don't know, unsuitable.

And what happened?

We never heard anything about him.

I mean, and then all of a sudden he just announced who he was when he wanted to sell a book, and he was a low-level official in Homeland Security.

And then there was Mr.

Vinman, and we still are not supposed to talk about Eric Karamella, the whistleblower leaker.

You remember?

He's the guy that

Mr.

Vinman was on the phone call that Donald Trump was saying to the Ukrainians, Mr.

Zelensky, that the Biden family is compromised.

We have approved aid that will go to you, but we're going to hold it until you see who in your government is working with this family.

And they said, you can't do that because

Joe Biden is a potential rival in the next campaign, i.e., take a look at what they're doing to Trump, his potential rival in 2024.

But aside from that, we were told that that was an improper interference in using U.S.

aid for a political purpose.

Okay.

And

how do you get that information?

How do we know about that phone call?

Mr.

Vinman,

he says that he didn't, he didn't, he's not going to tell us how he disclosed that information.

The whistleblower wasn't on the call, Sammy.

Wasn't on the call.

Vinman went around and finagled with Adam Schiff to tell Mr.

Caramella about it.

And then he volunteered as the brave spokesperson, and they hid his.

identity when he was asked under oath, who did you break the confidence?

Who did you break the law with, essentially, and give this information on a security call?

He said, I can't tell you.

And they should have right there held him in contempt.

But my point is, when you look at all of these leaks and whistleblowers and anonymous, you start to look at certain things.

And the first thing you see in all of these, there's no deterrence.

Comey leaked because he knew they weren't going to do anything to him.

Venman leaked because he knew they weren't going to do anything to him.

This guy, and by the way, his name is Texera.

I don't know what that signifies.

He could be Portuguese or he could be Mexican-American or whatever, but they're trying to portray him as a white racial

supremacist.

Okay.

And that's going to be a little hard when his name's not O'Dool or Schwartz or Zimmerman or something.

Or, you know, Guzman.

It is.

So, what they do is,

there's no deterrence for leaking.

And

when these narratives go out,

the degree to which the leaker is identified and they won't run with the story is the degree to which it's found to be useful for the narrative.

So when Venman and Caramella are not useful for the narrative, they keep, I mean, for the Trump narrative or whatever, but they are useful for Trump is a very bad person, and any means necessary to destroy him, then they keep him secret.

When the shooter in Nashville is a transgendered activist who had expressed hatred toward Christians and she left, he, she, whatever, she left a manifesto, it's suppressed because they do not want to say, wait a minute, she, if this manifest, I haven't seen it, no one has, but apparently we were told it was going to be released.

We knew it wasn't.

They were waiting for the attention to Wane.

And in the manifesto, if there's something about killing Christians, then people are going to say, hmm,

well, the left says that there's this right-wing supremacist terrorist group that's active at abortion centers or kidnapping the Michigan governor or

leaking pen.

Well, maybe there's a counterpart on the left because there was a Nashville shooter.

And then there was the potential assassin who showed up wanting to kill Kavanaugh.

And then there were the disruptors of the Texas legislature.

And is there a pattern here of trans violence?

Because they almost,

what, they barricaded the poor swimmer, Riley, at San Francisco State, and they were going to hold her hostage.

There was a transgender catalyst for the Stanford Review.

Oh, wait a minute.

This particular movement has violent tendencies.

And therefore, we can't give you any information that would enhance that unnecessary and improper narrative.

But if the person seems to be,

we can use him as a symbol or an emblem of right-wing violence, and we're going to find that leaker and we're going to get all that information out as soon as we can.

That's what's so strange about it.

It's so manipulative.

And we're in the United States.

Why can't people just say, A, if you leak, that's a felony, and we're going to prosecute you.

That would stop it tomorrow.

And B,

if you leak,

we're going to investigate who you are fully, no matter what.

We're going to look at everything you've written.

We're going to identify you.

We're going to prosecute you, but we're going to find out exactly who the shooter is in Nashville and what her manifesto says.

And we're going to find the whistleblower that connived with Mr.

Vinman.

We're going to go through their entire history, who they work for, what was the relation, that kind of information.

But they don't like to disclose it because they're not media people.

They're Prabhu people.

They're state informationists.

That's what they are.

Yes, I agree with you fully that

you can't assail their narrative or they will go after you.

And it's all about power.

So that's what we're seeing.

And we're seeing it especially with these leaks.

And it especially made an important point on these leaks with the fact that they caught this guy so handily.

It didn't take him what one or two days and he was caught.

But all those other leaks you talk about, sorry, we can't come up with anybody on those.

But everybody hang in there.

We're going to go for a break and come right back and we will be talking about Clarence Thomas and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Stay with us.

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Welcome back.

And Victor, let's turn to Clarence Thomas.

The left is after him again.

They seem to pick on him since partially because he is a black man.

And this time it is receiving favors, trips, which Thomas says is with his dearest friends.

That's Thomas's quote.

But the left is saying that these are inappropriate and

violate the justice's code of conduct.

And I was wondering your thoughts on Clarence Thomas's current predicament.

Well, I mean,

I've spoken at Harlan Crowe's forum that he sponsors in Dallas, where he brings in speakers and they debate one another.

And he's a transparent guy.

I mean, it's not as if

you lose your right to have people over.

And so I'm sure that all of the justices go to dinner parties or they go play golf with people.

It's just, I guess, the magnitude of which.

And if there is a recent, and I think it is fairly recent law that you report that, then Clarence Thomas should report it.

But I mean, of all the things in the world to go after,

he's a friend of

He's He's a friend of Harlan Crowe, so he wants to go fly on a plane and go on a boat with him.

I don't see the big problem with that.

If he recuses himself, if a case comes up that Harlan Crowe or an associate or his company is involved in, then if he didn't recuse himself, maybe there'd be a problem.

But there's no evidence that that happened.

And I remember

what do you think that Barack Obama was doing in the White House in the last three months of his tenure?

He was dealing with Netflix executives all day because he was trying to maximize his clout as a president to get what a $50 to $100 million contract the moment he left office and then the moment he left office where did he go he hung out with the people he'd been dealing with on David Geffens yacht and Obama did that all the time he went to Martha's Vineyard all the time did he pay market value no

so why what's the subtext with the left there's always a subtext the subtext is that for years

they controlled the so-called Warren Court.

How did they do that?

They didn't have a complete stranglehold on the White House.

Remember, there was JFK 1960, and then we had a continuation of Johnson, but they were not in power in 69 to 76,

so 76, 7.

And then we had Carter.

So they didn't make all the appointments is what I'm getting at.

But what they had was a unique ability to

take conservative appointments, the George Bush appointments of David Souter, to take one example, and flip them, or a Dwight Eisenhower appointment of Earl Warren and flip them, or even an FDR appointment of a conservative Hugo Black and flip them.

And they did that repeatedly, or Jerry Ford, John Paul Stevens, and flip them.

And out of that ability, I don't know if it was social pressure or Georgetown cocktail inventations, who knows?

But every Republican justice,

almost everyone, Alito is a big exception, flipped, and they were happy with that because they made law that otherwise did not have support in the Congress.

Okay.

And then all of a sudden, there was Alito, the Scalia,

and then

who of all people, Donald Trump?

Comey Barrett?

Kavanaugh, Gorsuch,

John Roberts.

I mean, that was a Bush appointment.

They flipped him mostly, but sometimes they don't.

The point I'm making, Sam, they don't have a majority anymore.

So in the left mind, it's all about process.

We don't have a majority.

We own the court.

This is the only way that we can get needed legislation through because the popular people are stupid and the Congress can go back and forth and the presidency, but the court is permanent.

But now we don't have it.

So what are we going to do?

Hmm, let's think about things.

Let's pack the court.

I know that's a dirty word that FDR did in 37, but let's put a website, pack the court.

Let's get 15 judges.

Let's really push that.

Elizabeth Warren, you're point woman.

And that's what they've been doing.

And then they thought, you know what?

That's a bad idea.

It's so tainted that nobody wants to do that because the Republicans could do the same thing.

Okay, well, then we'll get rid of the

filibuster on judicial appointments.

And I mean, Obama filibustered Alito, but you know what?

We'll just get 51 people and then those Republicans in the Senate can't feel okay.

They did that.

And then what happened?

It boomeranged on them because the Republicans could control and they could not filibuster Kavanaugh or Gorsea church home.

So then they thought, hmm, that didn't work.

Filibuster thing didn't work.

The pack in the court didn't work, but we got to do something.

Maybe you couldn't leak Roe versus Wade and

get further at them.

That didn't work very well.

And now it's, let's go after Clarence Thomas.

And why Clarence Thomas?

Because he's a black conservative.

And if you've learned one thing, Sammy, in this country, white bicoastal liberals hate African-American conservatives.

It's not explicable.

They have the same venom that they share for Donald Trump.

It's irrational.

It does not make sense.

And you can see it when my colleagues at the Hoover Institution, Shelby Steele, Tom Soule, both very gifted, far brighter than almost anybody of any color, more distinguished.

Tom Soule's publication record is just

monumental, and yet they went after them all the time.

They go after Tim Scott.

They go after anybody.

And here they have an African-American, unlike Barack Obama, who was at a prep school and was pamphered and then went,

you know, played all of the race cards.

This guy grew up in the South under Jim Crow.

He's older than Obama.

And he was very successful in government.

He was a federal judge.

He's a supreme.

You would think that the liberal community and the black community would say, you know what, we disagree with his point, but man, that is something.

No, they can't stand him.

And they say things like, I hope he eats a lot of bacon and he gets cholesterol.

Every time he's ill, you look at social media and they're celebrating.

And now we have AOC demanding that he step down because they feel that we've got a brief moment and we've only got two years left.

We've got Katanji Brown or whatever her name is, and we can get another judge in there.

So we've got to go after Thomas.

So they started, you know, that was the crusade.

And they can't stand his wife for a variety of reasons because she's unapologetically conservative and activist.

Do they go after him?

But I mean,

it's, I mean,

they've been doing that ever since the beginning.

Why didn't they go after Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

What did she say?

She said, oh, I think we should emulate the new constitution of South Africa.

We could learn a lot.

Or she said,

why is everybody on the right upset about abortion?

This was the interview with the New Yorker.

Aren't they aborting the right people?

And they tried to suppress that.

That was a horrible thing to say.

And the left didn't.

You know, they didn't.

And, you know, when you saw Chuck Schumer go at the doors of the Supreme Court and threatened the justices by name, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh,

you are going to reap the whirlwind and you're not going to know what hit you.

And then

you start seeing this pattern of intimidation of the judges' homes and an assassin.

And did they do anything about that?

No.

So they have no credibility.

I think that's what we all have to realize.

This echo chamber, this outrage machine, this DNC talking points where they say walls are closing in, bombshell development, nobody should listen to it.

It's just all manufactured and created by a bunch of people with no worldly experience at all.

They're just products of a bankrupt university system and a bankrupt Ocela corridor culture.

Yeah, and who could say it better, Victor?

That's perfect.

Can we turn then to the two lawyers in the Southern Poverty Law Center?

Thomas Webb Juergens helped Antifa in Atlanta, Georgia, is now charged with terrorism, but he is not fired from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

And Nancy Abudu is

just, well, she's been nominated by Biden to the Court of Appeals of the 11th Circuit.

And there is stories that under her

tutelage, the Southern Law Center has become sort of a very dystopic

entity.

And so very strange things going on with the Southern Poverty Law Center.

What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I mean,

it's not a center.

It's an industry.

It's got a half a billion dollar endowment, and they spend, I don't know, $150 million, $140 million a year.

It's an industry, and the industry depends on product.

And their product is accusing people of racism.

But the year is 2023.

So that has to be modulated.

So they have to go,

they use Antifa or it's LGBTQ or it's BLM, but it's not equality under the law and equality of opportunity.

And they, you know,

they've been rocked by, it was founded by that guy, Dees.

I think his name is Morris Dees.

I think even Julia Bond, Julian Bond was involved in the beginning.

And he had to leave because he had a series of sexual harassment that was covered up.

They've accused people of like Ion Herci Ali as being racist.

I gave a talk to a group, mainstream group in Los Angeles about, I don't know, four years ago, Freedom Alliance, I think part of American Alliance for Freedom or something.

And I talked about the dangers of massive illegal immigration.

And there was one of these people there.

And the next thing I knew, they had released a statement saying I was racist because I was against illegal immigration.

That's what they do.

They're just an outrage machine that tries to shake down donors.

by promising that they're going to find the next instance of racism.

And

it's a joke.

It's just a total joke.

And then they have members of their own staff that are given free reign to do whatever they want and break the law.

And then we're told that's just an isolate.

No,

they are a bankrupt ideological organization.

They have nothing to do with how it started,

that movement, I should say.

Even at their founding, Morris Dees was a problematic figure, and everybody should remember that.

And he made a lot of money off this organization until he was, it wasn't some right-wing nut nut that kicked him out it was African-American women that took kicked him out and other women that said he was racist and he was sexist and in his hiring and his practices he was improper in his attitude or temperament toward women in general and African Americans in particular which is very ironic because that was the purpose to be

not to do that and that's what he was doing apparently again it's not me saying that's not the right wing it's coming from from the left.

So no one should take that organization seriously.

Their whole purpose is to attack people without evidence and get a sensational headline and run with it for a day or two.

Then when the mistake or the correction follows, everybody's forgotten the correction.

They only remember the smear.

Yes.

Well, Victor, let's go ahead.

We have another break coming, and we'll come back and talk a little bit about

Bob Lee, the tech owner who was killed in San Francisco.

Stay with us and we'll be back.

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All right, Victor, you know, very sad case, Bob Lee, who got stabbed.

And kind of in week I think a lot of us have seen the video.

He stumbled around.

It looked like he was probably bleeding to death and he was losing consciousness and getting back up and losing consciousness or something to that effect.

But I was wondering what your reflections were on, because this was a well-known

and very wealthy tech owner in an area of the city that wasn't all that bad.

So we were all kind of shocked, but it seems that they've caught his

assailant.

What are your thoughts?

Well, there were things that were very tragically

incoherent about the circumstances of his death because it was very early in the morning, you know, two or three,

don't quote me exactly, but 2:30, 3:30 in the morning in San Francisco.

So, everybody was saying, why would a person who had left San Francisco be walking out at that time, even though it was a safe neighborhood?

And there was no explanation for it.

And the explanation was apparently they were at a gathering, a party, a meeting, I don't know what, and this

suspect,

and you know, we don't know anything about it.

this was just uh when i'm speaking right now it was just announced literally uh i was going to go on martha mccallan today and literally five minutes before they cut to me they changed the topic and said would you comment on this and that this i don't know nobody knows much about this nima momeni is that his name he's an iranian american i think he's a farsi speaker

and he's a very successful tech entrepreneur himself and he travels in tech circles and they must have known each other, or they had business relations with each other.

And he was giving them a ride home, apparently.

And there must have been some type of argument.

And then the defense lawyers on television today have gone to town.

It may be self-defense, it may be incapacity.

We don't know anything about it, other than people seem to be collectively relieved that it's not another street crime of which

I was just in San Francisco Monday, and you can see that the reason when the mayor or the district attorney says the crime has been stabilized, they don't mean that the number of criminals has decreased.

They mean the number of victims, potential victims, has decreased.

If you walk around San Francisco, as I did, and I just walked a little bit when I got out of a meeting until I

called somebody to pick me up, I just wanted to walk around a little bit.

I can tell you it's vacant, vacant, vacant.

There's beautiful new buildings as part of the 1990s and millennial renaissance there that are empty.

It's just striking.

The traffic is not there.

I made it from Palo Alto to downtown San Francisco in 41 minutes.

It's never happened at commute time.

That's 7.45.

I've never seen that happen before.

So of course the crime's going to be because there's fewer people that want to be exposed to criminals.

But this this wasn't part of that is what I'm saying.

And the larger theme is I don't think any of us understand

tech.

And tech, I mean, Elon Musk drives people crazy.

Jeff Bezos does.

We don't know anything about cryptocurrency and what was...

Sam Bankman Freed or his parents doing.

She was a bundler of Silicon Valley money or Silicon Valley Bank.

90% of the depositors that were going to lose money above the $250,000 limit had a million dollars or more.

And

Newsom called Biden to bail it out, but Newsom himself had three commercial accounts and various personal accounts in that bank.

So what I'm getting is sort of an enigma wrapped in a mystery, to quote paraphrase Churchill about the Soviet Union.

Nobody knows what's going on there.

I think that story, we'll have to see what happens, whether it it was some type of business dispute.

But for now,

how

a

major player in the tech world was stabbed and I guess either escaped or was thrown out of a car and he's on video trying to enlist aid when people, there's no one, either no one there to help him.

or he couldn't flag down a car is very tragic to watch him die like that in the street.

One of the things that perplexed me, and I think a lot of people said, if you have such clear videos of him and extremists and his death throes, surely you have videos of him

before, right?

So maybe the police did and they didn't release them.

They had videos of him getting out of the car or something.

And they found the knife and the fire.

Well, they found the guy.

Yeah.

And we don't know much about this Nima Momeni other than I understand that he is a tech entrepreneur himself.

Got it.

So some sort of personal conflict that they resolved through one of them stabbing the other is really weird, though.

Even if that is.

I was watching the news during the day,

and

it's

really kind of

modeling or toddling.

I don't know what the word is, that proper adjective, for these guys to already be speculating about a possible defense

of the suspect.

And they were going through all, walking it through.

We don't know anything.

And why would the first reaction be how to get the guy off or justify?

Why don't we just think about the victim and the horror that he experienced for a while before we go into why he was killed?

We're not policemen.

We're not investigators.

We're not Colombo.

But I don't get that, that lawyers want to come on television and then speculate with no evidence whatsoever what the proper defense for this momenti will be.

It doesn't make sense.

No, it sure doesn't.

And you know, you were talking about the de-urbanization factor.

If I could go off on a tangent, because I was looking while I was preparing for this, I found this article.

I think it was on the Hill, and it was a positive view because it was left-wing of this de-urbanization.

So they didn't deny it.

They said, oh my gosh, all these cities are losing their citizens.

But they said the reasons were that

rents are very high, and you can get a house out in the the suburbs or further out cheaper.

And that tech has us all working at home.

So you don't have to be in the big city.

So this is not such a bad thing.

It is very similar to the suburbanization of the country during Eisenhower's

during post-World War II, basically, not just Eisenhower's.

But anyway, I thought that was kind of interesting.

I know I'm throwing that at you out of the air, but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on

what is the reason for de-urbanization.

Well, I can tell you that when I first took the job at the Hoover Institution in 2003, I was asked to speak a lot for the institution and for other people who supported it in San Francisco.

So I would say I went up there once a month and, you know, farmer goes to the big city.

I didn't like driving.

I had to go find parking.

I got acquainted with the city, but my point is this, is that somewhere in that period, the idea that you were going to live in Menlo Park or Palo Alto or Sunnyvale became, or even Woodside or wherever the wealthy tech, it became Passe.

The real place, Sammy, was to be in the city.

And when you would go up there by 2010 or 12,

there were all of these hipsters and the gay community and singles.

But the point I'm making is the schools in San Francisco were closing because there was no children.

There were no families.

But it was a really hip place to be with great restaurants, nightlife, lights on all night long, safe.

I would go speak at a particular place for nationally view, or I can remember walking from

where the Fairmont is all the way down to Fisherman Fork, where I was staying, at night, and there was no problem.

And so that was the, that's why Twitter was there and AB and all these companies that you might associate associate with Silicon Valley were in the city.

And then what happened?

That's your question.

Why are people leaving it?

Why are rents collapsing?

Why is there a 30 or 40 percent vacancy rate?

It got hit with a trifecta.

The first thing was COVID.

And California, as we know, locked down like no other state.

They mandated the face mask.

They mandated the vaccinations.

They went whole hog.

And they created an entire Zoom class of wealthy executives and lawyers.

And they thought, you know what?

If I can hang around in my pajamas all day at Zoom and make a fabulous amount of money and get DoorDash and Amazon and Home Depot to deliver my appliances, why do I need to go downtown?

Well, once they reopened that

Pavlovian

indoctrinate,

it was there.

And the same thing is true.

when I go down to Los Angeles.

They destroyed the downtown.

That was one.

And then Gavin Newsom said he he was going to spend, I think, $10 billion and solve homelessness.

And all he did was attract people from all over the country on the idea that you're going to get a lot of entitlements.

There's no enforcement.

If you defecate, if you inject, if you fornicate, if you urinate,

there's no consequences.

And there's a nice climate in California City.

So come on in.

And they did.

So if you go down Market Street, I mean, there's the smell of feces in the air.

If you go into a hotel, people ask you to look at the bottom of your souls.

That was the second thing.

And then we, the third and the death knell was

the so-called,

I don't know what you call it, the Soros DA, the Gascones, and the Boudin, Chelsea, Boudin, they were both in San Francisco.

And they ran wild.

They just eliminated the idea that there's such a thing as a felony.

So they said, if, you know, there's a law under $950 of theft, it was no longer, according to a ballot proposition, a felony, but they didn't even prosecute them.

And so the word got out: if you're in San Francisco and you commit a felony or you smash and grab or caught, you're not going to go to jail.

And you could see it with that tragic death of Kate Steinley, the young woman who was shot, killed by an illegal alien who had stolen a gun and said he was shooting at, I don't know what.

I think he was shooting at wild, was it Wallace's or SEALs or hell, I don't know what he said.

And he just turned around and happened to shoot.

Well, it didn't matter.

That was, and they basically let him off.

He got a very reduced sentence.

And he had a retrial.

He was an illegal alien that had

five illegal entries and seven felonies.

And yet, the empathy was not for Kate Steinley.

It was for him.

And that, so what I'm getting at is the COVID, the homelessness, the crime.

It made it an intolerable place, especially if you were paying four or five thousand dollars a month for a small apartment.

And so many people said,

hey, I've learned you can Zoom.

Hey, I learned that if you go to Auburn or Colfax or Grass Valley or who knows where, you can get away from all this

and you can still work in a Bay Area company.

There's no homeless places in the Sierra Foothills.

There's no homeless in Tennessee or Texas or Florida.

There's no excretement.

There's no crime to the same degree degree in some places.

And they left.

And what would bring them back?

I don't know.

It took about 30 years to make San Francisco more attractive than having a home in Atherton or Menlo Park.

And so I suppose they would have to authorate me verse.

Say if you're going to work for the company, you got to be here in person.

If you come to San Francisco, there's not going to be zero tolerance for homelessness.

We have a very nice shelter.

It's out, say, where Candlestick Park used to be or some remote remote place like that.

We have small little cubicles.

We have self-help groups that monitor the street, clean up.

You'll get a shelter.

You'll get a shower pass.

There'll be medical care, but you're not going to live on the street.

And then we'd have to have a DA that says, I am one tough SOD and I'm going to clean up the city.

And we'd have to have a mayor that says we're going to bring back four or five hundred more policemen.

Is that going to happen?

Not yet.

Not yet, because things haven't reached bottom.

The mayor is very angry because she said people are, London Breed said they're mischaracterizing

California cities in general, but particularly San Francisco, as crime-ridden.

This is a woman asked for federal aid because she was unable to stop the deterioration of a city.

And she's yet saying, Anybody who agreed with me that everything was so hopeless, I had to have the federal government give me money, is illiberal and they're unfair to me.

I can't figure it out.

Yeah, that's just crazy.

Well, Victor, I have one listener that has a question for you here in our last moments.

He says, and this is on,

I think it's on Apple Podcasts, and his name is Alan from Los Angeles.

And he says, Victor, your ability to connect the historical is unparalleled.

But one question,

given all the truly insane developments of our current age, how do you stop yourself from descending into complete depression and hopelessness?

How do we curb our depression and hopelessness as American citizens?

Well,

we're looking at...

Yes.

Well,

think about it.

So you pick up the paper, you turn on your computer, you turn on the television set, and what do you hear?

What do you hear?

Both from the right points out what is going on and the left champions it.

But whether you're left or right, you know what's going on.

So let me give you an example very quickly.

This week,

you know, Mr.

Macron was essentially saying, screw the United States.

We're not going to help them at all aid Taiwan.

Or we...

We see the overrunning of the Tennessee legislature.

Or we saw Mr.

Mulvaney and the trans stuff sink the price of...

And they think, you know, there's certain solid reference in my life that men were men and women were women, and there was a very, very tiny percentage of genetically dysphoric people that we had a lot of sympathy for.

But what happened?

Or people thought here was a civil rights movement, and it was progressing to equality of opportunity.

And now, if you look at any of the polls, there's more racial tension than there's ever been.

But this was after Obama.

This was after all of this racial progress.

And then they look at the crime and they look at the border.

What is the border?

It doesn't exist.

So, in that conundrum, you ask,

how can you not get depressed?

And I'm not a good person because being Scandinavian, we're subject to it.

I don't think I've ever suffered depression, but you know, when I went to a Swedish funeral, it was, yeah, Viktor, he died.

20 minutes of silence.

Yeah, Viktor, he worked hard.

20 more minutes.

Yeah, we all go over to the house for coffee.

And that was it.

And it wasn't like an Italian funeral, you know.

So I'm not a good person to ask, but all I can tell you is I have confidence in the American people that these issues are not popular.

And so far,

We don't have the quite we have we've got a little bit with the house.

We don't have the calculus yet to transform popular outrage, majority support, to overcome the influence, the propaganda, the money on the left.

We're like a deer in the headlights still about what they've done to voting, 70% not voting on Election Day, $3.5 billion going to the

Biden campaign, Mark Zuckerberg, $419 to warp the work of the legislature, what we saw, what Elon Musk uncovered, what we saw with Facebook, FBI, $3 million contracting.

All of these things are just overwhelming us, and we don't have the effective leadership in unity yet.

And I'm hoping

against hope, and I am not endorsing anybody, but I'm hoping in this primary that we get a good field of candidates, we debate the issues, and out of them comes a strong candidate that can A, articulate what's wrong, and B, say, this is what I'm going to do to fix it.

And C, I have the temperament to do that.

Now, I don't know whether that will be Trump, who's learned,

he's got a good record before.

He says, I can continue this, but I'm going to change some of my temperament that offended the swing voter, or it's Ron DeSantis who can say, I did this.

I'm not Trump.

I don't have the ability to get 500, you know, 50,000 people at a rally, but I can do what I did in Florida on the national level or as some of the other candidates.

But they need to do that.

One thing I think is very, very, very

important,

and that is

everybody who is on the Republican conservative side agrees to support the nominee.

Whoever that person is will be far better than Joe Biden.

For all the people who walked out in 2020,

who had a lifetime of conservative principles, and they see what's happened to this country, and they voted for Joe Biden or they just didn't vote,

I'm just totally bewildered.

They must have completely gone to the dark side because to do that to this country, what's happened to the military, the border energy, foreign, it's just, it's scary.

And the last thing sent me before we quit is

I'm finding doing the last chapter on the end of everything,

how wars become Armageddon.

So when I'm reading about the last days of Constantinople and how it could have been saved, even though the Byzantine Empire collapsed around the city, it wasn't too big, it could have been saved.

But you look at what they were doing in the years and months before the siege, it's so similar to ours.

They were fighting among each other.

They were arguing over biblical exegesis and vocabulary, euphemisms.

They were not investing in the military.

People were leaving the city because of disease.

It was not well kept.

It's It's very similar.

Decline is a choice.

It's not fated.

And we are choosing to decline, and we have to stop it.

And each person, according to their station, is going to stand up and say, I am not a racist.

I am not a transphobe.

I am not a homophobe.

Don't call me that anymore.

That is projection.

You're projecting your own biases onto me.

I'm not going to take it anymore.

And stand up.

And I hope not everybody can, but if you're in a position of somewhat secure employment or financial position or whatever it is, then you have a special duty to speak up.

And

unfortunately, not enough people do.

And with that, Victor.

Yeah.

And with that, Victor.

Yeah, we're at the end of the program today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you very much for your wisdom.

This is Sammy Wink and Victor Davis Hansen, and we're signing off.

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