The Classicist: Morality and Politics
Victor Davis Hanson and cohost Jack Fowler pay tribute to George Orwell on the 70th adversity of the publication of "1984." The Left's revolution assails the middle class and depends on keeping the COVID crisis alive.
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Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
This is the Victor Davis-Hansen Show, the classicist.
I'm Jack Fowler.
The host, Victor Davis-Hanson, is the Martin and Ely Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the Wayne and Marsha Busky Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College.
He's also a best-selling author.
And this week is the week where his new book, The Dying Citizen, is out.
We encourage folks to listen to forthcoming podcasts, which will have some real detailed and interesting discussions.
with Victor by a special guest host.
Let's see, what are we going to talk about today, Victor?
Well, we have a couple of American greatness pieces that are out.
We have a story about Gordon Klein, professor at UCLA, suing the school.
And on your website, victorhanson.com, you go after the squad.
Maybe we should start talking about first.
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We're back with the classicist.
This is Jack Fowler.
I think I forgot to give the date, Victor.
We're recording this on October 1st, Friday, October 1st, 2021.
Hey, Victor, at victorhanson.com, where you have significant original material.
We encourage people to subscribe so they can read it.
One of the pieces you've written is called Under the Eeyore's Cabinet feature, Revolution Without the Middle Class.
He actually kind of tracks some of the themes in your book, but in this piece, you go after the squad.
And would you tell us your thoughts about these lovely ladies?
Well, they represent a number of people, Ms.
Presley, Talib, Omar, and of course, AOC.
And they are either one or, I think now, two-term Congress women from almost exclusively, overwhelmingly progressive districts.
And because they have little to fear of an opposition, because of the nature of their constituencies, they take very,
you know, sort of like a guy from Wyoming that's the owner or a person from Idaho.
And so they're very partisan and they're uncompromising.
But there's something very disturbing about them, Jack.
First of all, they're keen critics of capitalism,
but they've all in their first terms, I think I can say that they've all had campaign violation complaints filed against them for misuse of campaign funds.
Second, they're either second or
first-generation immigrants.
So
Representative Omar is first.
I think Talaib and AOC are second.
I'm not even sure if AOC might not be third.
I think she's second.
But what I'm getting at is they've been very critical of their host.
Omar, just to take one example, said when she arrived in the United States, she was just shocked at how dirty it was.
I think, well, I don't think Somalia is necessary Disneyland, if that's what what she meant.
And then second, remember when AOC said we're garbage, we can be better than garbage.
And so they've been very critical of their adopted or their parents' adopted country, which is really disturbing because they seem to really enjoy the fruits of capitalism.
And I mean that Omar no sooner had abused the campaign finance rules than, remember, she had this mysterious relationship with her brother that she married, said it wasn't her brother.
Meanwhile, she had a common law husband.
She actually broke the law probably to get into the United States that she disparages.
And then when she's here, she's lecturing people in moral tones, and yet she's voiced a lot of anti-Semitic tropes, the Benjamin's baby, or as has Talib, when she's talked really in vile terms about Israel, as has AOC.
criticized Israel and said she was crying when the Iron Dome was not fully rejected the funding, even though it's a defensive weapon system.
So, what I'm getting at is that they're all privileged people, and they're far better off politically, influentially,
morally than their grandparents were in different countries.
And their parents were, who came here in two of the four cases.
And yet, they're full of ingratitude, they're full of anger, and the rules don't apply to them.
And they really like money, they like things.
And so, AOC wants a designer dress.
She wants to go to a $35,000 ticket gala.
And yet, these are the models and the crazy things they say are models apparently for a large group of young people, which is pretty disheartening.
And so far, their influence comes from that they're young and they dislike the United States and they intentionally virtue signal that they're not white.
They're part of people of color.
We hear that odd nausea.
And most people would say to them, I don't care what color you are.
but you're the one that seems obsessed with it.
And why don't you just talk about your character or your intellectual ability, your political acumen rather than always play this aggrieved person, either as a woman or as a minority or as immigrants.
And, you know, it's just so nauseating.
And when they do these podcasts and AOC, we find out doesn't know what a garbage disposal or who are these people?
Have they ever lived a real life?
And it's part of this same woke contradiction.
These very affluent, very powerful people in society always play this victim.
You know, LeBron is a victim.
Oprah is a victim.
Michelle Obama is a victim.
Come on.
These are the most wealthy, powerful people in the history of civilization.
Victor,
that kind of bleeds into
one of the pieces you've written this past week.
for American Greatness, our poor sign two-legged wokeists.
You refer to George Orwell here.
You've been writing, referring to George Orwell frequently of late.
I do want to recommend it's a subject we never got to on past podcasts, but also in Eeyore's cabinet on your website.
You wrote about 2020 being the worst year in the last half century, and you wrote some really important things, I believe, on analyses of Orwell.
Anyway, in this piece, you write, for answers about these hypocritical wokeists, always turn first to George Orwell.
Why turn to George Orwell, Victor?
He had been a man on the left, and when he died, he was probably still categorized either by himself or by others as a socialist.
But after volunteering to go fight for the loyalists in the Spanish Civil War, 1936 to 39, and seeing how the anarchists and the revolutionaries and the socialists were crushed by the Soviet Bolshevik.
contingent, he became very suspicious.
And then he, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact really affected him, the idea that everybody warned you about Hitler and Britain that was on the left.
And then as soon as they cut a deal with Stalin for a year and a half, they were sure that Hitler was a good person.
They were nationalist, nationalist socialists, socialists.
So was Hitler.
He was good.
And then when Operation Barbarossa occurred on June 22nd, then all of a sudden the party line, and that's a term that Orwell was very acquainted with, then the party line was that Hitler was bad again.
And then when the British aristocratic class made a deal with the Soviets, as they had to, I suppose, in World War II, Lindley's accepted as ours had, then he was very dubious.
And of course, then right after the war, there was a betrayal of Eastern Europe.
So put all that together, and he was working on this.
I think he wrote it in six months animal form.
In 1949, it was published.
And then the next year, right after his death, was 1984.
And the whole purpose of these works were to tell the world that these people are not socialists.
They're conniving, murderous SOBs that want power.
They're pigs, it says that men on two legs are bad, but as soon as they get a chance, they strut on two legs.
And the Orwellian world, he's saying they use it.
modern industrial and technological power to go into the inner recesses of our lives and control us.
And they're nothing to do with what he, I think, naively, still naively thought was beneficial socialism.
So he's somebody who knew them very well because he had been a part of them in their earlier incarnations.
And so when you look at these would-be socialists and you see the contradictions in them, that they're wealthy, they're prestige conscious, they want nice things, they're venomous to people why they preach ecumenical humanitarianism.
Just go to Orwell and you can find a pig in Orwell that fits them very, very perfectly.
Maybe we should pick up a little of that series you wrote recently for Eeyore's cabinet at victorhanson.com.
You write that there were two prime subtexts to Orwell's dystopia.
And one, you wrote, with technological progress comes moral regress.
And you were resorting to some Greek historians there.
Would you talk about these prime subtexts to Orwell's dystopia?
That was one technological.
And you can talk about the other if you wish.
Well, we had the idea that the wealthier and more leisured and more time for contemplation and reason, supposedly, then we become more moral.
And that was supposedly the story of America, that the more people got bachelor's degrees, they didn't have to have...
work in drudgery, the more enlightened they were, the less religious and superstitious they became.
But when you look at the ancient world, there was a tendency to accept that, that 8th century Athens was poorer and more, you know, that was Pisistratus was not as sophisticated as Pericles, and there was no Socrates among the pre-Socratics, supposedly.
But there were dissonant voices.
One was Hesiod, and he said, you know, with the material progress comes moral regress.
And what he meant was the further you get away from the soil, from nature, from physical drudgery and hard work, preferably for yourself, the more contemplation you have, the more opportunity to satisfy your appetites in terms of ability and time.
And that's not good.
And that became almost thematic in Roman literature.
And we've talked about with Sammy, the satiricon, but also it's thematic in the biographer Suetonius or Plutarch's Lives written around the same time, about 100 AD, or
the novel of Apuleius a little later, or Tacitus's brilliant history, the annals and the history.
So
I guess what I'm saying is that that tragic view of human experience would say to our culture, the more that people have the opportunity to buy, you know, $300 sneakers, or they argue back and forth whether BMW is better than Alexis and why it is and why it not, or the more that they rip out a kitchen because the granite counter is not quite what it should have been, you know, 10 years later, that type of indulgence is not good for society.
And that people out there working in manual jobs or your plumber or your electrician have their heads squared on a lot better than the people that they're employed to because they ground it.
They're grounded in practical things and not just theories or fads.
And of course, as I get back all the time, social media and the electronic ages has accelerated these trends.
They've really accelerated them.
So our worry right now, I know that we owe 30 trillion, I rail about that, but I think our worry is that we have a very ignorant generation of young people coming of age to take the reins of power.
And I don't mean that genetically or their DNA or their aptitude or their IQ test, just that they were robbed and not given a K through 12 education and their university.
diplomas don't really mean much anymore.
They're just indoctrination certificates.
And they're going to be subject to the greatest amount of technological comfort of any generation, civilization's history.
And I don't know if they're going to be able to handle it, because it seems to me when I turn on the television, I see somebody twerking, or I see people shoplifting right in front of people, no one says a word.
Or I see medical professionals say, you know, you can go out and riot if it's for BLM.
Otherwise, we're going to put you in jail for breaking quarantine.
And getting back to Millie, etc., so I think there was a lot to that kind of primitivist morality.
And also, Jack, I should say very quickly, it was based on a culture of shame, not guilt.
I know as a person of faith, and I am too, that strikes us as a little hard to take, that we have this compact with God, and we confess either formally to a man of the cloth or woman of the cloth or in ourselves through prayer.
But the ancients would say that's not enough.
There has to be physical coercion in this material existence, and it's called shame, hideous.
So if you're going to do something bad out in Fresno County in 1960, your parents would say, now, Victor, now remember, if you go to school and you call somebody a name,
or you ever, ever go into a store and you take something, you're going to shame me, your father, your grandparents, your whole family name, the whole residence.
People are going to drive by our farm and say, there's that shoplifter.
And that was a powerful narcotic, you know.
I mean, it was like, it just hit me and thought, I don't, I was walking on an eggshell, not because I was innately unlawful, but I was just so afraid of shaming my parents or family.
We've lost that.
And we thought, well, you know, that's so old-fashioned.
We're just not going to go that.
But there was something about it.
One of those unshamed, and this leads to another piece you've written for American Greatness, the symptoms of our insanity.
I know we've talked a lot about General Milley, but damn, I can't
get enough.
You compare him in this piece to Zelig, and you call him, he's become the Zelig or Forrest Gump of our times, and then you put him in a time machine.
And what if General Milley had consulting, say, Admiral King or others back at the World War II?
Any short thoughts you want to make about this man that seems to have no shame?
Yeah, he has no shame.
He keeps lecturing us that he's reticent.
And the worst thing is politicizing.
And then how did we even hear his name?
It was just that when the Episcopal church was being torched, Lafayette Square was in riot mode and people were spilling on to the White House grounds, or at least threatening to, Donald Trump went over to the church and he had a photo op.
sort of talk with media and he asked Millie because he was considering using federal troops to come.
Nobody forced Millie to wear his camouflage fatigues as if he was in combat mood.
But he did that the way that Clapper and Brennan and the others do when they go from one administration to the other.
So he thought he wanted to ingratiate himself and he did.
Okay.
And then he hit the left-wing tsunami and they said, oh my God, you want to militarize.
the nation.
You're thinking of tear gassing people.
You were part of that order when he tear gassed people.
I remember General Mattis, I think at that point, wrote a very strong letter in the Atlantic about it.
And they all did.
They all came out and said, and General Milley wrote that wave.
And then he leaked to the usual suspects.
General Milley rumored to consider resignation.
That guy would never resign
under any circumstance.
But we were supposed to feel that he was a man of high character and had been embarrassed by this buffoonish opportunist.
And then for someone who reads really well, he had no knowledge whatever of the use of federal troops, whether it's Douglas MacArthur breaking up the bonus bonus army right after World War I, or it's, as I said earlier, Colin Powell was gleefully sending in 5,000 Marines into Rodney King torn Los Angeles in the early 90s.
So he said, you know, that this is just terrible.
And then, of course, as we said earlier, there was nothing there.
And did General Milley say, you know, I did a photo op.
and I was thinking about resigning.
And then the inspector general came out and dispassionately and in depth investigated the entire Broglio and found that Donald Trump had not ordered the use of tear gas.
He had not tried to have a photo op while federal troops were pouring in.
He had never given that order.
And I'm sorry, because I mischaracterized it.
No, he went right on to what?
What was next?
What was the next fad?
The January 6th.
And then it was White Rage.
And then once he heard General Austin was going through the ranks, then he was going to outdo General Austin, his boss.
And then it was on to the phone call to the Chinese counterpart in the PLA,
People's Liberation Army.
And there was General Milley, now the Renaissance man who's diplomat, and he's military operational commander.
He's strategic.
He's Curtis O'May.
He is George Marshall.
He's everybody all in one.
And of course, it was entirely illegal, but typical of him when he broke the chain of command on basically the suggestion of Nancy Pelosi.
And we have a transcript of that call, apparently, in the hands of Bob Woodward.
How he got it, I don't know.
But Millie was essentially saying, I can disrupt the chain of command when I want.
And I just did it.
If you get an order, you have to come through me concerning nuclear weapons.
You know what?
I'm just going to go over there and tell the people that if Donald Trump or anybody in this administration is thinking of an aggressive act and I don't like it because democracy is messy, I'm going to tip them off.
And then when Afghanistan came, oh, I don't have any chain of command, it doesn't exist.
Look at my job description in the 47-53-2006 law.
It says I'm advisory only.
And then it came around that when Marshall Blackburn just ripped him to shreds in his congressional and especially his Senate testimony, did you leak to the, talk to this person, this person, this person, this person?
It's like every person in the world in Washington who writes a hit piece on Donald Trump, the backgrounder was General Millian.
What did he say?
He violated every canon of decency and the uniform code of military justice.
Donald Trump is a Nazi-like figure, Mein Kamp.
This was one of the greatest terrorist operations.
This is, we haven't seen anything like it since 9-11, the Civil War, Epic Times, Newsmax.
I mean, he was just ranting crazy.
And he never, he said he.
he never read these books and he didn't know and sometimes he said he couldn't recall but he was at the inauguration he goes up to michelle and winks hi michelle i'm so happy i'm happy and oh i'm happy too that donald Trump's no longer there.
So, you know what they said of Cromwell?
Be gone with you.
I think Leo Amory, we dug up that quote from Cromwell when Chamberlain was still around, said, be gone with you.
We've been done with you.
It's a long time out.
And so I think the American people are saying, you know what?
You've had so many damn psychodramas and melodramas and hypocrisies.
We do not need somebody to fob off culpability for Afghanistan, to the President, to the State Department, to the officers under your command.
Take responsibility.
And we do not want ever again a Joint Chiefs chairman to call a belligerent's counterpart and warn them of a possible United States strategic move.
That's not your duty.
And that borders on something that we use the T-word for.
And we do not want a chairman of the Joint Chief violating the chain of command, as you did, and then opportunistically relying on your advisory role when culpability has been allotted for Afghanistan.
And we do not want somebody racializing and politicizing the military by going after quote-unquote white rage.
And so that's what we need from General Milley.
We need a resignation.
He can still get his pension, his four-star, just say, you know what, it's about time for me to leave the Joint Chiefs.
Look at his slot on MSNBC.
Let's move on.
We have two final subjects and not a lot of time left.
One of them is COVID.
So just briefly, there have been some states such as New York, vaccine mandates that have really wrecked havoc on the healthcare system.
Surprisingly or not, a lot of healthcare workers are not vaccinated, do not want to be vaccinated.
And
since this was imposed earlier this week, any number, many have been fired.
And this is having quite an effect, particularly in rural places, upstate New York, which is quite rural.
There's no nurses, no hospital staff, not no, but very depleted.
And they are considering suspending elective procedures because of the drop-off in workers.
So, that's one little thing.
But the other thing I'd really like to get your thoughts on is my friend, I assume you know him and have read him, Ben Weingarten.
Ben writes for the Federalists.
He's a fellow at the Claremont Institute.
He has a piece in Newsweek.
It's called COVID is Becoming the Afghanistan of Pandemics.
And I think that's a great image there.
You know, the rationale for every next step may be in conflict with the previous rationale, but hell, we're just, we're still here in year, will we be in year 20 of COVID at some point?
Any thoughts about that piece or about anything COVID-related, Victor?
Well,
in a sane world, Operation Warp Speed would be appreciated as creating three vaccinations with a fourth to come within a very short period.
And that had never happened before.
So the people would weigh the cost-benefit analysis.
COVID kills about 0.2, it's 99.8 survive it, but for that 0.2 and a population of 330 million, it can be quite large.
600 deaths, especially preys on people with cold morbidities that are vulnerable.
So we would make these cost benefit and then we would try to say, you know, given all of the dangers or the unknowns, the known unknowns versus the known knowns, this is why.
So that's what we did.
And we started vaccinating.
And when we got up to about 50%, I think we're nearing 60%,
we started slowing down
and people started to panic.
And that was because there were lies given.
This vaccination stupidly was advertised to the American public as don't hector anybody else.
If you are vaccinated, that's all you need to know.
You're protected.
If the person next to you is a moron doesn't get vaccinated, so to speak, then it won't hurt you.
Well, that didn't happen because we were told it was 96%, 94.
I love the decimal point, 95.7%.
And then the Delta variant came along.
And if they had just said this thing won't last forever, likely, and it will probably give you 90% chance of not dying from it or maybe 80% not going to hospital but you may get it still then
we wouldn't have panicked but the idea that it gave you such protection so that was a lie and then we had these clownish president and vice president that were screaming at people that was their patriotic duty when both of them just a few months earlier said explicitly do not get vaccinated with the trump vaccination.
I am not going to be vaccinated, Kamala Harris said.
Anything to do with Trump and Biden, in softer but nevertheless, similar tones, said the same thing.
So now we're in a second Orwellian situation where the people who were yelling us and demanding mandates for this themselves said they would not take it, at least when there was political gain to say that.
And then, third, Dr.
Fauci
has misled us on masks, on travel bans, on herd immunity, but we're talking about vaccinations now.
When he was asked directly, now, contrary to what you
said,
the science is in.
Rand Paul was very good the other day with Mr.
Javier Becerra, the HHS secretary, just carved him into little pieces, but he said, the science is in.
And naturally acquired immunity through a prior infection is superior to vaccination prophylaxis.
Okay,
that's the science.
So then the question obviously is: why wouldn't you allow somebody with a certificate, maybe crude as it is, of antibody levels, to be given an exemption from the vaccination?
Just as they're given an exemption from not having to have COVID, even though the vaccination is an inferior form of protection.
Just as we don't say to the vaccinate, got to go get COVID.
So we say that people who've had COVID don't get vaccinated.
But that's not, they can't answer that question.
They will never answer it.
Be Sarah couldn't answer it.
Biden couldn't answer.
And I don't know why that is.
Maybe they think they can't certify it accurately, or if you get COVID, people would wait around and want to get it naturally.
I don't know.
So that was a third lie.
And there was a fourth lie, and that was that it was perfectly safe.
Well, it is for the vast, vast majority, but there are people who have side effects.
And I've had a member of my family have had, you know, thousands of dollars of PET scans and CAT scans to find disturbing developments that happened, especially women that we know, I think the CDC has issued a warning that you're not to have a mammogram after right after a COVID vaccination.
Why would they do that?
And maybe it's not going to be a serious problem.
So there were problems that we don't discuss.
We just dismiss people as flat earthers.
And we don't even tell them about that.
And then when we look at Israel and they had 60 about what we have vaccinated and they were supposedly solved the problem, they're talking about a third and fourth of vaccinations.
And then finally, you get the impression that they do not want this to go away.
They want to have government never waste a crisis moment until the last person on earth is vaccinated.
And only then.
I don't know, we might have 25 boosters.
Only then will they let up and say, you know what, the economy is going to return.
We don't need the supplemental income.
The climate of fear is gone.
When they could have said all along, this is a serious, dangerous, and deadly virus for people in a particular categories and once in a while for people that are inexplicably vulnerable.
But we're going to treat it like we do the flu.
We're going to try to take precautions.
We're going to urge strongly you get vaccination and we're going to work double time on therapeutics.
And so I think today there was an announcement that I think Merck has developed a drug that will stop deaths by 50%.
And I think that's where it's all going to end up, Jack, that the vaccination is not going to be the answer, at least this generation, to eliminate it, eradicate it.
But there will be medicines that can deal with it.
And maybe we'll have to take a pill when we get ill.
But I think we can return to normal pretty soon.
Victor, that's about all the time we have.
As ever, we are deeply appreciative of our listeners.
Those that listen through iTunes would even think to review this and give Victor five stars and leave comments.
And of the comments that are left, we do read them.
Here's one I'd like to actually tell you about.
It's titled People's Tramp and it's by G.
Calbu90.
And he, I assume it's a he, and he writes, Victor Davis Hansen's insights on everything from foreign policy to debacles to internet.
internal domestic rot while preaching the values of a classic education as a path to societal and self-improvement are exactly what I and many others look forward to on this program.
I'm a landscaper at the moment.
And even if the rain is pouring and the wind is howling while I work, I always have a smile on my face or a laugh out loud.
Thanks to VDH.
Thank you.
Yeah, and thank you, G.
Colbu90, for that and all others who have left comments and left five stars.
And that's, I think that's 99.9% of folks who left that level of rating.
Victor Hanson, S-O-N, victorhanson.com.
That is his website.
It's $5
a month.
Stick your toe in the water, subscribe.
And there is a book's worth, I think, of original content you will find there every
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You'll find a link there for Victor's.
now out book the dying citizen please get it or go to your local store as for me jack fowler please subscribe to my little weekly newsletter Civil Thoughts.
Go to civilthoughts.com.
I'm the director of the Center for Civil Society at American Philanthropic, and we're doing great things.
You can find out more about that at centerforcivilsociety.com.
So Victor, thank you very much.
I hope this week, I know you're in New York.
This coming week, we're being aired, broadcast while you're in New York, but I hope your efforts to promote this really phenomenal book go very well.
And maybe I'll even bump into you on the sidewalks of New York.
So, thank you again for all the wisdom you've shared here.
Thanks to our listeners.
And we will be back again soon with another episode of the Victor Davis Hanson Show, The Classicist.
And thank everybody for listening.
And Jack, I'll do what I always do when I get to New York.
I have your song.
Across the street when you see me.
No, I always say, Jack, it's Victor here.
This Selma boy is completely lost in this Godforsaken place.
You've got to help me.
Where the hell do I am and where do I go?
Well, you know what?
Jack appears out of nowhere to last time escort me to my destination in the rain and point there and I would have found it.
You know what we'll do, Victor?
We'll go to Bloomberg and we'll get tips from Michael Bloomberg on how to be a farmer.
How about that?
Yeah, you just drop a seat in the ground and trusto any idiot.
All right.
Thanks, everybody.
Okay, we'll see you.
Bye.
Bye.
I knew we all had two ages.
our actual age and our internal biological age.
What I didn't know is I've likely lowered my biological age without even knowing it.
Here's the thing.
Because Americans eat so many processed foods and not enough fruits and veggies, many, perhaps most, are 10 plus years older on the inside than their actual age.
They're ticking time bombs.
A major university study suggests how to slow aging and diffuse that biological time bomb.
Participants slowed their aging by drinking Field of Greens.
That's all.
They didn't change their eating, drinking, or exercise, just field of greens.
When I started Field of Greens to replace my multivitamin, I was amazed.
After about two weeks, my energy improved.
I've been exercising more, and my overall wellness feels great.
Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens was doctor selected for specific health benefits.
Cell health, heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight.
It's wonderful knowing Field of Greens can slow how quickly I'm aging.
And I encourage you to join me, swap your untested fruit, vegetable, or green drink for Field of Greens.
While there's time, check out the university study and get 20%
off when using promo code VICTOR at fieldofgreens.com.
That's fieldofgreens.com, promo code Victor.
And we'd like to thank Field of Greens for continuing to sponsor the Victor Davis Hansen Show.