414: Rob Lowe was Here… Literally!

Well, hello there.

It's the way I heard it.

I'm Mike Rowe, and guess who this next voice belongs to?

Chuck Klausmeyer.

There you go, man.

The voice you're going to hear in mere moments, as you may have gleaned from the title, is the one and only Rob Lowe.

Because Rob Lowe was here, literally.

Literally here.

Right there.

He sat right across from you.

I watched the whole thing.

I took a picture.

I hope you're happy, man.

I know you do enjoy these little celebrity

brushes with celebrity i only do it for the ladies mike i do it for the ladies the ladies appreciate a rob low every now and then he's referring to the ladies in the office although i'm sure some of the ladies listening and i gotta say he's easy on the eyes i mean he's well preserved good looking fella was he wearing makeup i couldn't tell yeah but he came from someplace else where i think there was a makeup was a required thing unless he just puts it on in the morning i don't know there's no way he does that but it is plausible like when you're out promoting stuff if you're rob low

you're constantly promoting something or you're constantly shooting something right how many projects does he have going gosh i don't know he's got that show unstable with his son

john owen uh he's got the floor on fox is it fox yeah okay lone star 911 yeah it's so much you know what he's everywhere the reason we're not totally clear on this is because we really didn't talk too much about what he's doing and the reason we didn't talk too much about what he's doing is you know i try and put myself in his place and just say, man, what questions am I just sick of answering?

Yeah.

So, no, we don't talk about the outsiders.

We don't talk about the brat pack.

We don't talk about the scandal that nearly upended his career when he was just a teenager.

We don't talk about too much about his memoirs.

You know, we kind of mention him.

I'm not even sure what we talked about, but the time flew by and it was really fun.

It was really fun.

And I can tell you one thing, it was Sammy Davis Jr.

was talked about.

You know, that's old school Brat Pack or the Rat Pack.

Sorry, that was the Rat Pack.

He was in the Brat Pack.

That's true.

Very true.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

It was like a lot of.

Chuck, hang on a second.

This is my mom.

Oh.

Hey, mom.

Uh-oh, you busy.

Yeah, we're just recording the intro to a podcast with Rob Lowe.

I just interviewed him, and he just left.

So we're just recording this real quick.

Can I call you back?

Oh, yeah.

Nothing urgent.

You can go right ahead, honey.

All right.

All right, love you.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Anyway, sorry about that.

But you know what, man?

She's 86 years old.

When your mom calls, you answer the phone.

You answer the damn phone.

Yes.

Right?

She's got a book coming out.

I should have given Rob Lowe a book.

Well, yeah.

I didn't give him anything.

No, not at all.

I was going to give him a bottle of whiskey, but he hasn't drunk in 30 years.

You gave him a bottle of water as a drink.

He didn't give him a bottle of water.

Yeah.

And you know what?

What's he going to do with more stuff?

People have been giving you stuff all your life.

He says he's a curious guy.

I bet if you gave him a book, he'd read the book.

You're right.

Right now he's probably wondering why he didn't get anything from coming here and talking to me for an hour and a half.

Yeah.

Anyway, look, what a nice guy.

What an absolutely, unfailingly nice and authentic guy.

We come in pretty hot with a true story about the circumstance that actually led him to agree to come on this podcast.

And spoiler alert, it involves bears,

favors,

and his son.

Oh my.

Oh my.

I'll explain all of that and more

right after this.

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Thank you for doing this.

Oh, yeah, thank you.

I'd go anywhere just to listen to to your voice.

Oh, come on.

Don't make it weird.

I got a Rob Lowe's story.

I'm only going to tell one because I only got the one, but I think you'll appreciate it.

It's two years ago.

I'm in Tahoe.

Actually, I'm on Fallen Leaf Lake.

Have you ever been?

I know where it is.

It's right next to the Big Lake, and it's great.

And I got a buddy with a cabin up there.

I get up one morning and I take the big walk.

I walk every morning, sometimes, sometimes seven, sometimes ten.

I'm going all the way around the lake.

All right, so

I'm out there.

I'm about, I don't know, six miles in.

I mean, deep, deep, deep in the woods.

And I got my phone with me and my headphones.

So I download some podcasts.

Let's see who's on Rogan.

Well, it was an old one.

You'd been on there a couple years earlier.

I start listening to you and Joe Rogan get me through this walk.

It's a great conversation.

But it gets to the end of it, and you start talking about your podcast.

And I'm like, really interested in this because he's asking the questions that I would have asked.

Yes, for sure.

This is great about Joe.

Terrific, right?

So I'm really into the conversation and it had been going on for a couple of hours.

And I look up and I'm on a straightaway.

It's a path.

And about 150 feet in front of me is a bear, a big bear.

And he's running toward me as I'm listening to you.

Talk to Joe Rogan.

This is amazing.

So

that puckering feeling, like I immediately forgot my Boy Scout training.

I did not make myself

big.

I did not make myself noisy.

I turned and I ran.

Okay.

And you made yourself wet.

I didn't have to, man.

It just happened.

So I'm running through the woods of Lake Tahoe.

A bear is chasing me, and I'm listening to you.

Okay.

Now, you're going to love this.

I run as fast as I can, and I run for maybe 30 seconds, and I turn around, and the bear is

about as far from me as he was when I started running, but still just galloping along.

I'm like, God, this is just not good.

The altitude, I'm gasping for breath, and you're going on and on about your new podcast because I don't have time to take the earphones out.

So I come to a little curve in the path.

I take a hard right and then I get behind a tree and I just stand there still and I'm thinking, you know, their eyesight's not so good, but I know they can smell anything.

And is this thing just going to follow me right behind the tree?

My My heart's pounding.

You're going on and on.

And I peek behind the tree, and the bear just jogs by.

And I realize he wasn't really running.

He was just kind of galloping.

And I realized in that moment, he wasn't chasing me.

He was just out for a run.

He's just like you.

Just like me, Rob.

Just out for a run.

And I'm just standing there behind the tree.

listening to you ask Joe Rogan for advice on your podcast as this bear vanishes in the distance.

That's an amazing, I can't imagine that anyone on the planet has ever had that experience but you.

Well, it gets weirder.

That night, back in the cabin, I get a phone call from a guy named Aram.

I don't know if you know Aram, but you know some people he knows.

Yes.

And apparently your son is turning 30.

The message says, I hate to ask you this, Mike, but Rob Lowe's son is having a birthday, and he's a big fan of Deadliest Catch.

Do you think maybe you could send him a little birthday shout-out?

This is the day you've been chased by a bear.

That night.

That night.

So in the span of 12 hours, I swear to God, I'm listening to you, and I didn't seek you out.

I'm just trying to listen to something on my walk.

That's right.

But it's you.

And then hours later.

You

ask somebody who asks somebody.

And the next day, I'm making a birthday video for your boy.

And you were the hit of the video.

You were the hit, the hit of the video.

That is really some weird kismet.

Dude, I feel like now

most of the things that happen to me that feel apocryphal and like powerful, I never know it when it's happening.

It's only years later when you look back and you go, well, that was weird.

This was weird in real time.

In real time.

It's hard to deny that.

Right.

You go, something is at work here.

I'm glad that those roads, those bear paths, led us to this moment.

You were there for me, man.

Thank you.

And you're welcome.

And you really are welcome.

Thank you.

Speaking of your boy, we don't really do much prep for this thing, but I went on Instagram.

Bro.

He's serious, isn't he?

Dude, funny.

Both of them.

Both of them.

Explain what's going on on Instagram with your sons, because I think it's a terrific model for fathers and sons every day.

Well, look, so it started with my youngest son.

Not the oldest who had the birthday.

That's Matthew, who's the fisherman.

Right.

He's the outdoorsman.

Hardcore outdoorsman, and he works in finance right now.

So he's got like a real job.

My young son's got a phony baloney job like me, you know, in showbus, puts on makeup and acts for a living.

So, but sadly, he had John Owen.

John Owen, he's quite good.

He's quite good, but he had so much more potential.

You have to understand,

he was the youngest

intern at the Eli Brode Stem Cell Laboratory at

University of San Francisco during his high school tenure.

That got him into Stanford, graduated with straight A's, and then comes out and tells me he wants to be an actor.

Oh, my God.

And I just wanted to kill him and myself.

Forget the tuition that I could have saved.

He could have gone to Jambajouche every day and waited by the phone.

I didn't need to pay a tuition to Stanford to be an actor.

But in the interim,

he would just eviscerate me on social media.

He's a very funny kid.

And he would just work me over.

I would post something that I thought was cool, and he would just come up with some comment just shellacking me.

It would make me laugh.

Because I love a good joke, even at my own expense.

Maybe even more so at my own expense.

What makes it so good is that your boy understands the power of brevity.

Right?

Yes.

He's not going on.

He's not telling big shaggy dog stories.

You should look at this, Chuck.

They're just cutting.

Now, in the boy's defense,

the old man does post some, I mean, some beefy kinds of pictures.

User or loser, bro.

I'm 60 years old.

Come on.

There's a lot of topless stuff.

And the great irony is, I spent 15 years of my career going, they just want me to take my shirt off.

And now you're like, and now I'm like, can I take my shirt off?

Because it ain't going to last forever.

Have you seen Matthew McConaughey on,

I guess it's Letterman, talking about,

I forget the movie, but no, it's Matt Damon talking about Matthew McConaughey and how every moment just is an opportunity.

Oh, Mr.

Soderbergh, I was thinking maybe about time.

Maybe a good time to take our shirts off.

I like the way we've turned Matthew McConaughey into Bill Clinton.

Adjacent.

It's the same, right?

So close.

All my impersonations are adjacent to the same four people.

What's What's your strongest?

My Clinton is pretty strong.

My Arnold, but a lot of people do Arnold.

Yeah.

Mine, I think, is the kind of thing where, you know, everybody is thinking about that and going, like, okay, it's going to work.

It's really going to work.

It's not good.

That's solid.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We had a time,

there may have been some beverages involved.

It was a long time ago, but for some reason, I...

I realized I could kind of sound like Sammy Davis Jr.

Just a little bit.

More than a little bit.

If I wanted to, man.

And also, you've got the low of mouth going.

I dig it.

He digs it.

Hey, man, I can get in on this, too.

I got a great.

You'll be the judge of whether it's great.

Yeah.

Is it as good as the bear story with the boy and the I don't know?

That's so unique.

I came in hot.

I set the bar.

You set the bar.

I'm going to try to up you with Sammy Davis.

You see.

No bear stories from Rob Lowe.

No bear.

No bear stories.

We have our title.

I started a movie with a bear, Hotel New Hampshire, Nastasia Kinski in a bear suit.

That was a stupid idea.

Most beautiful woman in the world.

Put her in a bear suit.

That'll work.

Dom.

John Irving.

Yes.

I mean, good for a book, not good for a movie.

Bombed.

Yeah, man.

Blocks away.

But a great book.

But a great book.

And the movie's okay.

So, Sammy Davis Jr.

Yeah, Matt.

It's the 80s.

My agent represents me, but also Liza Minelli, who, you know, I mean, it's Liza Minelli.

So I'm supposed to go to...

It's a dirty by any chance?

It's Michael Black.

Wow.

I go to dinner with Liza

Andrew McCarthy, String St.

Almost Fire, and I think my girlfriend at the time, and we're having dinner at Spago.

Of course, you're.

And at the end of the dinner, she goes, let's go back to Sammy's.

And I thought, is she talking about Sammy Davis Jr.?

Wait, what?

We might go to Sammy Davis Jr.'s house tonight?

And we go.

1980.

I'm going to say it's 83.

Okay.

1983.

And we go.

It's one of the biggest houses I've ever seen at that point.

He had it lit like it was Stalag 17.

It was, there were more floodlights.

I don't know what he was expecting, but it was like illuminated in like a prison.

They were watching a movie, and we kind of waited for him to come out from watching the movie.

And then we, he says,

I'm gonna have you do the okay, Sammy.

And you say, Let's shoot some pool, kid.

Say that, hey, kid, you want to shoot some pool?

And I say,

I'm terrible at pool.

And you say, How good can I be?

I'm blind in one eye.

it's it's great I mean I listened to him sing

obviously the candyman is a bigot but he

the whole album like he

growing up with that kind of sort of

generational ubiquity he was before we came of age and so I always kind of knew of him but I never ever sat down and really listened.

He's one of the greatest singers.

I just got a vinyl of for my, so he had a huge album that came out the year that I was born in 1964.

And I had a friend, really thoughtful gift, got me all of the albums that one would want to listen to from 1964.

That's terrific.

And one of them is Sammy's.

Yeah.

I haven't listened to it yet, but based on this, I'm going to listen to it this weekend.

Listen to, in particular, I Gotta Be Me.

It just gets higher and higher, but wider and wider.

He was just such a master, master, just a little guy, and he danced so well.

It actually drove me.

Listening to that recently, life now is a two-screen experience, right?

Like every single thing is a portal into something else.

You hear a story, and you go here and you go there.

As soon as I heard him sing, I gotta be me, I hop online.

And apparently, he had something to do with the Church of Satan, which I didn't know.

Well, is that what?

Google it.

Google Sammy Davis Church of Satan.

Now, it's the internet.

Satan is the Satan.

The big S, Old Scratch, Bell's of Satan.

Scratch.

It's Satan Leibowitz.

I think it's someone.

Are you sure it's not Satan, which was like a designer of the time?

Sorry, Satin.

He liked Satin, Mike.

Isn't it Satan?

Santa.

Why Sammy Davis Jr.

joined the Church of Satan?

I know.

What?

What was he hoping to get out of that?

Candice.

More famous.

Just some candidates.

Old Scratch has really got the sugar.

When we were chatting before we were rolling, you told me how much you were enjoying the floor.

Yeah.

I've seen two episodes.

Super addictive.

It's clear that you are, although you're a very good actor, and I suppose you could act like you were enjoying it.

Right.

So several questions.

When you're hosting a show,

are you acting like a host?

Are you trying to draw from other great hosts?

Or are you you?

No.

And by the way, the greatest host of all time for anything was Dick Clark.

Agreed.

And I had the honor of doing an episode of, this tells you how long ago it was, the $10,000 pyramid.

Wow.

With Dick Clark.

I was 15.

And

like Ty Cobb said, it ain't bragging if you've done it.

I went to the pyramid round every time and won.

And so I

love trivia and I love game shows and I love Dick Clark.

But the way I look at hosting is it's like doing I sometimes do a one-man show when I have the time.

It's like doing my one-man show while I'm being an air traffic controller.

Because the notion of keeping track of who has won what, what the storytelling is vis-a-vis the gameplay, how much money is currently on the table, how much time is on the all of the sort of making the trains run on time

is sort of one part of my brain.

And the other part of my brain is the entertainer trying to be funny, keep it light.

Looking for a moment.

Looking for a moment, knowing when to bring the gravitas and make it real.

Right.

And knowing when to let some air out of the tire.

That's the fun, the broadcaster part.

Yeah.

I don't get to do any of that as a straight actor.

By the way, on his Instagram, there's a picture of him doing this one-man show.

And his voice caption simply says, John Stamos would have sold it out.

It's because there are a few empty seats.

There's like four empty seats in the top row.

It's that.

It's that.

And there's another one where you're drenched in sweat.

You've just come from some workout and you take this selfie.

It's at my house in my home gym.

And Johnny says something like, ah, the art of subtly posing in front of your wall of Emmy nominations.

Exactly.

Oh, so good.

Brutal.

He's a good boy, though.

He's funny, too.

I love that show.

Unstable seasons right now.

Unstable is streaming now.

Our second season on Netflix.

Our co-star, Lamorne Morris, just won an Emmy yesterday.

Oh, yeah.

That's great.

I love doing comedy.

I'm blessed that I get a chance to do both.

Listen, I'm blessed that I get to dabble.

I'm a dabbler.

You aren't.

Can't hold a job.

You know, Renaissance man.

Yeah.

Journeyman.

But I love doing this.

I love my podcast.

Literally, we've done like

these numbers are going to sound small to you.

You've been doing this since 2018, I think.

I think we're way over 100 episodes now.

They go by quick, man.

They go by quick.

And I look back at the people that I've had a chance to talk to.

Jeff Bridges is the current one.

And that's, I mean, to talk to Jeff Bridges.

I mean, I could talk to Jeff Bridges about the first 10 years of his career.

How about this?

I talked to Jeff Bridges for an hour and a half, and I didn't even get to the big Lebowski.

Wow.

Right?

Well, because the old man's out now, which I assume you're watching.

Yes, which is just, we don't have many celebrities on this podcast, mostly because I don't really know how to talk to them for that reason.

Right.

You can't sum up.

It makes no sense to look at your resume and start asking you about.

And by the way, probably isn't a question you haven't been asked, and I don't want to be that guy either.

But do you think about that when Jeff is sitting across from you?

Somebody like that.

I'm like a music nerd.

So I had like Lindsey Buckingham from Fleetwood Mac.

All right.

And I'm like, Kenny Log.

I'm like a yacht rock guy, right?

So I get like Kenny Young.

You said that out loud, by the way.

I did.

We're actually recording this.

You know what?

I know I'm wearing it as a badge of honor.

I know it makes me a national joke to say that I am the king of yacht rock, but come on, man.

So

I had Lindsay on, and it's all I could do to, I mean, I went track by track.

So, or a guy like Jeff and talk about this movie and that movie.

And, I mean, for me, I just want to find the deep cut to talk about.

Right.

Like, there's a reason I didn't get to Big Lebowski, I realized.

It's like everybody asks.

Because everybody asks.

That'd be the first question they'd ask him on Entertainment Tonight.

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I mean, that's what I was getting at before when I asked you the difference between impersonating a host.

And by the way, nothing wrong with that.

I impersonated Dick Clark for a while because I didn't know.

of a better example.

Sure.

But, of course, who did Dick Clark impersonate?

and when did he stop doing that and start, you know, start being Dick Clark?

That's right.

Very interesting.

I mean, because hosting is not acting.

Well, I'll tell you what I see to be contemporary is I see it with Tom Brady

on Fox.

Yeah.

And when you think about Tom Brady, the greatest of all time, everybody knows one of his greatest things was he was coachable.

He was in there, knew the play.

He was a coach's dream.

I don't think that's serving him well here

we need to be ourselves.

That's the lesson.

And so I can just see Tom coming into this.

He's never done it before.

He's listening to quote-unquote experts.

I want to go, bro, you're Tom Brady.

Should be Tom Brady.

With all the best intentions.

I'm making this up.

I don't know any of this to be true, by the way, but I can see, based on my experience in these type of things, where it's like, so listen, in the first quarter, let's make sure we focus on this and that.

And so, and that's when we build a narrative.

Like in the second quarter, we're going to do a package where we talk about the defense, but let's let the defense establish itself in the front.

And the next thing you know, you don't know what the f ⁇ to say.

You don't.

I don't know if we were rolling when we were talking about this, but it's the executive who wants to imagine the kind of sunset that you're going to film.

Yes.

As if it's going to have something to do with the quality of the work and to obsess on the details at the expense of the larger thing.

That's the weird...

I'm so interested in hosting, not because I am kind of one, but because it's not broadcasting, really, and it's not acting.

No.

There are times when it's all just jammed in together, but you described it right.

You're actually a traffic cop with a sense of humor and hopefully some time.

And a proper host.

Right.

You know, it's like, okay, this person's had enough to drink.

They need to no longer be toasting.

Let's move on to some.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like all the stuff you would do at a party.

Oh, that person's been sitting in the corner.

They seem nervous.

I feel like they've got something to give, though.

Let me see if I can screw it.

It really is just an amazing.

There's so much more to it

than you think

if

you're doing it in the fashion that I, you,

the Dick Clarks want to do.

I mean, they're playing house to just go up and read a prompter or whatever.

What did you learn from Dick Clark as a guest on Pyramid once upon a time?

Oh, I remember he screwed up my introduction seven times, seven consecutive times.

I'll never forget as long as I live.

It's like that famous voice.

It's in my head.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Rob Lone.

And then I would come out and somebody would whisper to him.

And he would just be quiet and go,

reset, lighting cue.

Music.

Ladies and gentlemen, from the new ABC TV series, a new kind of family, Rob Loeb.

Reset,

lighting cue

music cue ladies and gentlemen

he's just a tall drink of water he looks like he's six feet Rob Loeb

at this point you kind of think

you're just fine with it no but he was deadly serious and what was like he had zero

shame

I mean, each introduction, he sold it as if it were the first.

It never affected him.

It was like water off a duck's back.

You wouldn't, I was like, that was unbelievable.

He didn't, he was just like a complete pro in that he was able to let the moment pass and live in the next one.

He was so

kind to me.

I met him in 19.

One of the nicest guys ever, kind of notoriously, right?

It was suspicious.

It was suspicious to me.

I kind of spent a lot of time around the edges of this industry and scrupulously avoided, well, the path that you took, not that it was offered to me, but I decided early on I was going to try and make a living in the periphery.

And this, I got hired to host a show called No Relation.

It was on FX, and it was through Dick Clark Productions.

So Dick oversaw the whole thing.

And we filmed over at

where they do the prices right, CBS.

CBS Television City.

In fact, I had Bob Barker's dressing room.

Come on.

Bob was shooting Monday through Friday or whenever he felt like it.

Never on weekends.

We only shot on weekends.

So I would go into his dressing room on the weekends and I'd put on my little outfit and I was hosting a show called No Relation.

You would actually like this.

Five family members

sit next to one another and agree to be questioned by three B-list celebrities.

One of the family members is an imposter.

The real family member is back there, but one of them is no relation to the others.

The B-list celebrities have to try and figure out which one is not related through a series of questions.

My job, of course, is to host the whole thing.

And

sidebar, it would still be on the air if the celebrities weren't so damn stupid.

We gave away all our fabulous vacations.

literally in the first week.

Everybody got a grand prize to Mexico.

Everybody won.

Everybody wins.

In fact, Tom Frank, who was the EP on the show, he was so frustrated with the

celebrities, he like renamed it Hello Mexico.

And he started casting like Chinese people to sit in a black family to give them a hint.

They still couldn't figure it out.

They thought they were.

They thought he was trying to trick them.

That's not good.

That's not good.

Not good.

Not good, Daddy.

Not good, Daddy.

Anyway, pour some sugar on me.

Dick walks up to me after uh

maybe the third taping and he said mike your instincts are good i really don't have any notes everything's going great we're giving away a lot of prizes but that's not your fault one thing though when you walk out and say hi everybody i'm mike rowe welcome to no relation you might not want to say hi everybody

because

what i've learned and you can take this for what it's worth mike

he says what i've learned is that even though you're broadcasting and even though you're very aware that you're talking to a couple million people, and even though the people are probably aware in the reptilian part of their brain that they're part of an audience, that's not why they're watching you.

They're watching you because you're talking to them.

So the word everyone,

it's not really the right word.

Just say hi.

Amazing.

And I felt like I had been touched.

Touched by the hand of God.

You got the 11th commandment.

Right.

There is no everyone.

It's just a guy sitting across from you.

Talk to him.

That's so

amazing.

I mean, it's no bear in the woods, but it's good.

No, it's amazing.

You having Bob Barker's dressing room.

Now, that was something.

Can I tell you?

I was hoping you would.

So there was a time in the 80s where they were shooting a lot of movies in Chicago.

And there's no real television studios there.

Oprah hadn't built anything yet, she didn't exist yet.

There were these.

Oh, look, someone's here.

Oh, man, that's got to be the boy.

How's it going?

Yay!

I'm feeling it, man.

Hey, how are you?

Mike.

Matthew, nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, guys.

No, come so exciting.

We're just recording.

Yes, sir.

We're definitely recording.

Take a load off.

Tell them a little story.

This is Matthew, who you did the birthday wishes for.

Oh, fantastic.

That's my oldest Matthew.

Pleasure to talk to you.

It's a pleasure to meet you.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry we don't have a proper chair.

Well, guess what?

And get the company that he works for owns Dick Clark Productions.

When did that happen?

There's Kismet going on around this conversation.

I was just telling a Dick Clark story.

We were just doing 10 minutes of Dick Clark Productions.

No way.

Yeah.

I work in the Dick Clark building, where the office is where Dick Clark Productions is.

Over on Lake Olive?

100 North Crescent.

When he moved to Beverly Hills.

Oh, they moved to Beverly Hills.

He works at Dick Clark Productions.

And this guy's bizarre.

Honestly, man, I'm glad he wasn't here for the opening story because that's just too weird.

Well, Bear would walk in.

When you listen to this,

your head's going to explode.

That's a bear story.

Hey, knock down.

And you're in it.

You're actually in the story.

Yeah, you're going to have to really have to go out.

That's what we call a tease, Matthew, in the business.

Just a tease.

Anyway, why don't you just sit on the sofa there?

You're making me nervous, perched up there on the there.

You go.

Put that anywhere.

Fantastic.

So I'm in Chicago.

Yeah.

So

you have your

Bob Barker is dressing room.

I'm in Chicago, mid-80s.

These little weird quasi-TV studios are tiny, that are sort of decrepit, and we're shooting class there.

We built the apartment set in or whatever.

And there's a dressing room, and it's disgusting.

It looks like, it kind of looks like a waiting room in a railroad station from 1955.

Do you know what I mean?

Like those kind of couches, those nog hide, fake leather,

stained.

And bowed.

Like you did.

So So many asses have sat in it for so many years, right?

I was young and probably drinking still.

And I think it was six in the morning, it was very early nights, asleep on the couch.

And there's,

who are you?

And I look up, it's Marlon Perkins.

Wild Kingdom?

Wild Kingdom.

That's amazing.

I am in his dressing room.

He thought he was shooting that day.

He wasn't.

And

being startled out of a hungover sleep by Marlon Perkins is one of my favorite weird memories.

You must have thought you were being hunted for a moment.

And then the other thing.

While Jim and I watch from the shrub.

From the shrub.

And then the other very quick thing is, not to say that sometimes

I maybe

fought.

below my weight class in my dating life, but I remember trying to impress a girl and said I would take her anywhere on a trip, and she said she wanted to go to Omaha

because she wanted to see the Wild Kingdom.

Oh, that's adorable.

The beautiful of Omaha is Wild Kingdom.

Yeah, yeah.

I was on a date at the Ponderosa with a woman who asked me what the P stood for on the chair.

And we're at a Ponderosa.

And so I just told her, honest, whatever, try not to be too judgy.

And on the ride home, it started to rain.

And I had my wipers on intermittent.

And she was sitting there next to me, watching the wipers every five or six seconds clean off the windshield.

And she says to me,

how does the window know when there's enough water on it to trigger the wiper like that?

And at that point, I realized, you know.

You're going to have some fun with her.

You bet I am.

You're in.

I mean, in every way I could.

In every way that I could.

So I just explained that I had a friend in the automotive industry, and he had developed a sensor.

It was still in the prototype stage.

I had the car that actually allowed this to happen.

And she became incrementally fascinated with me.

And one thing led to the next.

But the ultimate success of that evening, I walked back to that spectacular lie and her childlike innocence and wanting to know.

And my...

I'm not proud of it, but you know, in the scheme of things, I guess people have done worse.

But yeah, I lied to the girl, and she found me fascinating for it.

I once was on a date,

it was going to be a double date, but the other couple didn't show up.

And

the girl said, Why isn't Johnny, you know, whatever, and so-and-so here?

I said, Well, Johnny's studying for the bar.

She goes, Oh, I didn't know there was a test to you a bartender.

God bless him.

See, we collect stories.

That's what we do.

Do you keep a diary?

I'd never have.

I should.

I've tried countless times.

I probably have

10 amazingly bound books with one entry in them.

Isn't that interesting?

I resolved to start keeping one.

The same week I decided that I could no longer ignore social media.

There's a tape in me somewhere telling Jay Leno I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than go on Facebook.

Never send a tweet never.

Well, I started doing that instead of keeping a diary and wound up writing, I don't know, probably 400,000 words on social media over the years.

But I always did it with, it's like, you know what?

I'm going to do this instead of keep a journal.

I'm not sure in hindsight it was a good trade.

In fact, I'm in some trouble right now, Chuck.

Did you know that?

What did you do now?

With what?

Well, with Mary, but because I posted something on Facebook yesterday that I thought was really funny.

Oh, okay, yeah.

I mean, what you mean?

I mean, are you interested?

Am I on somebody's show who's been canceled and I don't know about it?

Possibly.

I don't think so.

I don't think it's going to happen.

Matthew's really a good.

My sons, Matthew and Johnny, are really good judges.

I run

of that.

Matthew, we're using you right now.

Okay, so here's what happens.

Here's a new game show.

Mike Rowe, stay or go.

The floor.

Showing the floor.

Have you been following these crazy memes that are going around with the Springfield film?

That's the best thing ever.

Following them?

Following them?

I have never laughed.

No, I've never laughed harder in my life.

Okay, so it's not just us.

They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats.

Have you seen the ones where they change you?

It's like, eat the cat,

eat the cat.

Eat the dog.

Have you seen the guy that's got the whole sort of Trinidad Caribbean riff?

Love that.

The greatest.

It's making me laugh.

Look, well, Mike did the barbershop version of that.

So

I'll show it to you in a second.

But I just want to say it's not a political podcast.

By the way, nothing about it is political.

No.

Nothing about that joke is political.

But what's funny to me, or like what's really sweet, is I think to be reminded of the level of creativity that's out there

that comes from people that you've never heard of.

This is shockingly great, man.

It like re-invigorated my appreciation for the creative mind.

I had the exact same conversation.

I got a dog named Freddie.

I used to do this thing called Fridays with Freddie, where I'd post stuff.

You're in Springfield, where poppies are underseed.

It's a barber.

And kittens hide

from hungry thieves.

If that's a fact,

it's time to act.

Don't eat the dogs, don't eat the cats.

How'd you get that harmony?

Dogs, don't eat the cats.

Oh, the high harmony with the fixed cats

and the low one.

You could be in the Eagles.

Jesus.

So that's how you do it.

We sang in a barbershop quartet in Another Life.

Yeah.

Is that true?

It is true.

In high school.

Yeah.

And she got the boater hats.

We didn't go that far.

No.

I was going to say.

Tell them our news.

Well, we went pretty far.

We were called semi-formal.

F-O-U-R-M-A-L.

Those were terrible.

Very clever.

You guys are words.

And we wore tuxedos and tennis shoes.

See?

I see.

Those are edgy, too.

Very edgy.

Very edgy, but still accessible.

We killed the nursing home circuit fans.

They loved us.

But anyway, the sponsors on the podcast get unauthorized jingles sung in four-part harmony because I just think it's

amazing.

Because nobody else does it.

That's such an extra for them.

People are so angry with me.

That's how we ask people to subscribe and like us as well.

We have like seven different songs at the end of every episode.

There's a different one.

I mean, I can't tell if it's clever or tragic, but this thing, man, people are just like...

What's the beef?

Well, the beef...

He's out of tune.

He's pitchy.

No.

They're actually very complimentary about all that.

I think what I misdiagnosed was the degree to which people were enjoying all the other meme.

I thought everybody was in on this joke because my whole news feed is filled with nothing but this.

But of course, it's filled with nothing but that because I went looking for it.

Well, no, you know, no, I'll tell you exactly another reason why.

You have a dog.

Yeah.

So it knows that.

So I have dogs, and so they feed me pet memes.

And the basis for me of all of it that makes me laugh are the, you know, it's the thing that the pets go

when they hear that there might be pets being eaten.

Side-eye thing.

Side-eye thing.

It just makes me laugh.

And I'm getting it not through a political prism, but through the animal prism.

Yeah, it's it doesn't even occur to me that it is a political thing, but obviously, I can see how easily and maybe truthfully people could construe it as well.

Everything is political, obviously, today, and everything is magnified here.

But I just, my instincts are usually pretty good, especially on my own page.

You know, I mean, it's not a lot of a ton, but they're six, seven million people.

Matthew, would you let me post a barbershop quartet version of that with one of our dogs?

No.

No.

Oh, no.

Why?

If you want to err on the side of being safe these days, don't even touch anything remotely political.

What makes it political?

Is it political because Trump said it?

Yeah, that's the only reason it's political.

And it may not be true.

Right.

True.

If we're to believe everything that's currently out, it is not true, that they're eating quote-unquote cats and dogs in Springfield.

Hear about this.

How about I grew up?

My dad was the tennis pro in Springfield.

Springfield, Ohio.

Yep.

No, but

my dad was the tennis pro at the Springfield Country Club.

That's

going on here.

Seemingly impossible coincidence.

A lot of weird coincidence going on here right now.

I'm troubled by something your boy just said.

What do you say?

If you want to play it safe,

you're an outdoorsman.

You're a fisherman.

Risk is something you must assume simply to enjoy the life you have.

Why would anyone want to play it safe?

Dumb.

As you may have heard me say several thousand times before, we need to close the skills gap in this country and we need to do it stat.

I hate to be an alarmist, but there are currently 7.6 million open jobs out there, most of which don't require a four-year degree.

And currently, 250,000 of those jobs exist within the maritime industrial base.

These are the folks who build and deliver three nuclear-powered submarines every year.

to the U.S.

Navy.

And there's a real concern now that a lack of skilled labor is going to keep us from building the subs that need to get built.

On the positive side, there's a growing realization that these jobs are freaking awesome.

I'm talking about incredibly stable, AI-proof careers, just waiting for anybody who wants to learn a skill that's in demand and start a career with some actual purpose.

Additive manufacturing, CNC machining, metrology, welding, pipe fitting, electrical.

All of it is spelled out for you at buildsubmarines.com.

That's where all the hiring is happening and you really need to see it to get a sense of just how much opportunity is out there.

That's build submarines.com.

Come on and build a submarine.

Why don't you build a submarine?

That's buildsubmarines.com.

Got him quiet.

Did you see all the quiet he got?

Yeah, sure thing.

I mean, I think that

inherently being in the outdoors and being enjoying nature, I think they said the average kid today spends less than like 10 minutes a day outside you know it's a world of being on your screens and playing video games so i think that's inherently dying anyway yeah but why do you want to play it safe oh to succeed in any form of career these days

so and here we have the eternal struggle of our time right right we have to somehow figure out

what to do with risk.

I mentioned to you off air, sitting right where you are now yesterday, yesterday, was the aerial photographer for Deadliest Catch.

I haven't seen him in 20 years.

He just reached out and I invited him over and we had this amazing conversation.

And a lot of it had to do

with the necessity to take chances and the willingness to assume risk and how really something has changed today because we've so elevated safety and we so value carefulness,

but we still aspire to success in all of its forms, but we seem,

we're just so careful about taking chances.

And I wonder what a man of your experience might have to say about the business of taking chances from time to time.

Well, I don't consider myself a

thrill seeker or an adrenaline junkie, but I am always barraged with people saying,

you do that?

What are you crazy?

Oh my God, I don't even like you.

I mean, when do you rent?

And like, I'm just living

like I'm hella skiing.

I'm, you know, big wave surfing.

I'm scuba diving, you know, but that's like just living life, right?

And like, I went to Jackson Hole recently.

I was like, can I get 100,000 vertical feet in one day?

They have an app.

They did.

But that's the way I'm wired.

I'm wired to do stuff like that.

But there's stuff I won't do.

I don't want to jump out of a plane.

Don't ask me why, but I will jump off of a cliff into water or a bridge.

Like at what height?

I mean, I have my limits, but I'll jump off of stuff that people would not jump off of.

But the notion of a plane, probably because I'm such a bad packer, I figure that I don't trust anybody to pack.

Pack your own shoot.

Yeah, pack your own shoot.

Go with the Golden Knights like Mike did.

But you're on the guy's back?

First time.

Matthew's done it.

Of course, he's done it.

One and done was enough for me.

So, me too.

But I've never jumped out of a plane where there wasn't a camera pointed at me.

I have a whole different risk tolerance and risk profile when I'm working.

Oh, same.

You put a camera on me, I'm liable to do anything.

Actually, I know that I can't trust myself.

Yeah.

If you put a camera on me, I cannot trust myself.

What is with that?

Why do we become bulletproof when a camera's pointing at us?

Because the juice becomes worth the squeeze.

Because

film is forever.

It's just that simple.

And when I play in golf tournaments, like I want the gallery.

Crowds, cameras, I want that.

It's when I'm alone, is when I play my worst golf.

Interesting.

The crowd makes you better.

Yeah, it's like, you know, I'm a performer.

Yeah.

The light goes on, I know what to do.

Well, except you see it in reality shows too, right?

You see people who are not performers.

Oh, that's the way.

So back to the floor, the thing that I just, that I did not anticipate is

that

regular people, contestants, in the hot, bright light of the set and the television and the clock,

I have seen the kind of

fold melting.

And sometimes it's the most entertaining.

And so I feel terrible,

but it is the most entertaining.

I literally had,

it was a picture, it was 80s rock duos.

So you couldn't have the actual people.

You had to guess.

And it was a picture of a hall

and a bowl of oats.

Okay.

And this literally, this person was like, um, hallway,

bowl oats.

Allie wheat.

Allie wheat.

Um,

haul oat.

Bowl way.

So you just never know.

It is interesting because you can't judge the human condition by performance under that level of scrutiny and circumstance for sure.

But my God,

it's a deep well online if you go down game show bloopers.

I'm sure you have.

Did the famous, the famous one really did happen, right?

Julieweb game?

Because for a year it was debunked.

Remember, it was debunked?

No, it happened.

Forever, it was a guy.

It's a wives tale.

It never happened.

And then recently...

They found the footage.

And that's not an AI footage.

That's no real footage.

That'd be in the butt, Bob.

The greatest.

Just to see Bob Eubanks, like

his expression, he goes through the five stages of grief in about three seconds.

Everything just runs out, the blood, the expression, and he just hangs his head.

He doesn't know where to look.

No, he doesn't know what to do.

There's no playbook.

Let me ask you a question.

Paul Lind, Hollywood Squares.

You win a cookie.

You win a cookie.

By the way, I'm obsessed with doing the Paul Lind story as a movie.

Oh, wow.

Because you know

the shit was going on.

Well, based on your turn in Liberation.

Behind the candelabra, right?

Isn't that that good companion?

It's a companion piece.

What's the great?

Wait, I can do it.

Paul Lind?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead, do it.

Smells like,

I think.

I'll cut that out.

I don't think so.

I'll bleep it.

Did he get the questions in advance?

Yes, of course, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

For sure, right?

For sure, yeah.

I do a version of that called North Hollywood Cubes, and that's what we do.

Right.

Swear to God.

Really?

Yeah.

It's for, because he's too, they're too good and too quick.

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everybody gets them into Vesta.

Everybody gets them.

I was

number two for the reboot of that.

I forget who actually hosted it.

Whoopee.

Whoopi.

She bought it.

She bought that.

She bought Hollywood Squares, yeah.

And Alec Baldwin was in the Paul Lind Center Square.

Yeah.

Well, I came close.

They called me back a couple of times, and I asked that question, and they were like, no, of course they got all of it.

But as a kid, I remember watching that show and just...

There were so many great things about the Hollywood Squares.

That was the best show at making you feel like a fly on a wall at a party you wanted to be at.

Yes.

You wanted to be one of those squares.

I just felt like I was around them, just watching.

Here's what I never said.

Who's Cliff Arquette?

Don't know.

Gray Aries.

Do you know what I mean?

Like that character, Charlie Weaver?

Charlie Weaver.

Isn't he Charlie Weaver or Cliff Arquette's Charlie?

I don't understand any of it.

But he had the bow tie and he sat there as if we were supposed to know.

Upper right.

I don't understand.

I never understood that.

And he looked like an old man, but he wasn't.

I never got that part of Hollywood.

Well, it's back to the Sammy Davis thing.

There's a very weird kind of fame that isn't directly connected to your specific experience of it.

Like, a Kitty Carlisle.

There's another one.

Charles Nelson Riley.

Oh, hoodoo from Lidsville.

Come on.

I know Charles Nelson Riley is.

Yeah, but as a kid watching those things, all I knew was everybody around me knows who those people are.

I don't.

I was too young.

So it's just that feeling of like, man, I'm not quite in on this shit.

The match game was great, too.

I was just thinking that that was my favorite.

What's the best match game?

I'm always trying to like remember.

Like, he didn't want to put it in her blank.

Yeah.

Whatever.

My favorite, it's really a sweet one, too, is

the woman was from like South Carolina.

And Gene Rayburn says,

and he had that mic, remember?

About a yard long.

It's a weird one.

Like a yard long.

And tiny, but a yard long.

Like a pointer.

It looked like a point.

And he would hold it like with his his fingers, like a little T-Rexy thing.

So weird.

Really weird.

But the queen.

We all remember it.

He's talking about it 40 years later.

Yeah.

He'd probably buried with that thing.

Superman is so tired these days.

How tired is he?

That all he does

is lean against the lamppost

looking at his big red blank.

Like, what?

And the woman says,

ass?

And everybody's like, what are you talking about?

And then she makes this sign on her chest, his ass.

You know, you know, his ass.

That's the right answer.

It's the right answer.

That's how she did it.

She was just kind of innocent.

She wasn't trying to be crappy about it.

Those were the greatest.

See, that's the stuff that makes.

So what is it?

So here you are.

You've got the show.

It's a bona fide hit, right?

You're back for season whatever it is.

Two and three.

Did they pick up both at once?

At once.

No, they're not screwing around.

Yeah, when they do, that's how you know, right?

They're not messing around.

Dirty Jobs, we did three, shelved it for a year, came back, did a couple, and then they ordered 39.

Wow.

39.

39.

How do you find 39 dirty jobs?

Well, that's what you do.

Well, we were doing three an episode.

So really the question is, you know, how do you find 100 some fast, you know?

And the answer is the viewers.

The viewers programmed that show, totally programmed it.

But this thing, why are you doing it, man?

I want to understand why you're doing a game show,

and I really want to understand

why you're doing your podcast.

Okay, so here both of the same answer

because

a lot of people go, guys, you're 60 years old, but you seem so youthful, and blah, blah, blah.

And I feel

what is the hallmark of a child?

Curiosity.

And

I need to

be curious in my life and I need to learn and I follow things that I'm interested in however weird it may be i.e hosting a game show if it's something I'm curious about if it's something that I feel like I'm gonna have fun doing and if I feel like I'm gonna learn and I don't know anything about hosting a game show nothing zero

And I mean, I read a prompter.

I don't read prompters for a living.

I don't do any of it.

So anytime I'm on a traditional movie set or TV set, just by virtue of how long I've been doing it, I will be the most experienced person there.

Always, almost every time.

I walk onto the set of the game show and I'm a rookie.

And I get to learn and I get to prove myself and I get to, I make it fall on my ass.

There's no guarantee.

People might laugh at it.

It might not work.

I don't know.

And like my adrenaline is up.

So the podcast is that

with,

I knew

with my decades of relationships across all sectors, that I could talk to people in a way that nobody else would be able to.

My interview with Gwyneth Paltrow

is going to be unlike anybody else's interview with Gwyneth Paltrow because I'll be able to say things like, Tell me about the time my wife taught you to give a f a job.

Good one.

I mean, you're not going to hear that from Oprah.

No, but you're going to cut it into the open, I'll tell you that.

Yeah, you're right.

You're going to leave with that.

So, and look, I don't always have that kind of insight,

but again, or like Robert Downey Jr., do you remember the time when we

were in

eighth grade history together?

Right.

So we didn't talk about Samohai.

Right.

And also, like Jeff Bridges, I didn't need to ask him the 1700 question about the dude.

For better or for worse, love him or not, my interviews are like Rogan's.

And I mean, I'm not trying to compare myself to Rogan or Howard Stern.

Those guys are the greatest.

But what I think we do have in common is that there are interviews that only I could do.

You're more Tom Brady, back to that comparison.

You established yourself in an obvious and meaningful way in a pretty specific space.

And now you're outside of your lane.

Right.

But you don't, you got to be you, right?

You got to be.

You got to be, as Sammy Davis would say.

You really.

You got to be me, Daddy.

And that's what people want.

They want authenticity.

The takeaway I have about where entertainment is going is, you know, there used to be a time when mystery

was a thing and was valued.

And love it, don't love it, argue about it, don't argue about it.

Mystery being valued has been replaced with authenticity being valued.

Interesting.

And the only way you can be authentic with people is to be known at your deepest level by people.

And the only way to do that

is to approach everything through that prism.

You've got to show your ass, too.

You have to be vulnerable.

It's like I wrote two books.

They're among my proudest things that I did.

If you're going to write about yourself, you've got to be honest.

So the podcast, the books, it's a way to share who I really am with the audience because today, that is what people want.

They don't want mystery.

They don't.

And you actually have the receipts.

I would say maybe 90% of the memoirs that I've read were written prematurely.

You just haven't lived enough yet.

You haven't seen enough yet.

I get it.

Your life's yours and it's interesting.

But, you know, especially in the celebrity world, when yours came out, I'm like, you know what?

That guy has permission to write whatever he wants to do.

There were people that didn't want me to write it in my life, who I respect, that felt like I hadn't.

That book.

Which one are we talking about?

Stories I Only Tell My Friends.

So that opened up the floodgate because the memoir thing, the celebrity memoir thing was moribund.

It was not happening.

And then that book worked.

At the same time, Tina Fay's book worked.

And then, so now we're living in a world where everybody is writing their memoirs.

But back then, they were like, you're not even halfway through your life.

You shouldn't be doing it.

You do it either when you're done or when you're cashing out for a check.

But nobody in the middle of their life does this.

I feel like I have stories to tell, and I feel like I have stories to tell now.

And it worked.

But again, that's taking chances.

Absolutely.

Right.

I mean.

What publist would say, go for it.

Go ahead and tell all of it.

I wrestle with this too, especially in the reality space where you know the spectacle is going to sell.

You know the train wreck, you know all that.

Right.

But that's not really who you are.

That's not the sum total of all the parts, you know.

Right.

And so, like, was there pressure from your publisher, I guess, is my question, because I've been down that road a bit too.

to push you further than you wanted to go, to reveal more than you wanted to reveal?

Or was the whole thing cathartic for you?

Dumb.

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It was cathartic.

It was super cathartic.

I'd never been more certain of how I wanted to tell the stories.

And I knew that you've got to deliver on the expectation.

You can't be coy and do a bait and switch, which a lot of people do.

You realize this was nothing.

It was all a snow job or whatever.

But there's a way to dish the dish in a way.

David Niven did it great in the book The Moon's a Balloon.

I haven't read that.

It was the very first classic.

It was a revolutionary book.

It sold and sold and sold and sold and sold and sold and sold.

And I remember seeing it in my grandmother's library as a kid.

The Moon's a Balloon.

The Moon's a Balloon by David Niven.

And, you know, David Niven was a serviceable, mid-level character actor.

But he wrote this revolutionary, and that's sort of the thing that people aspire to in that genre.

Because what he did was he dished everything you wanted to know about all of his co-stars, but in a way where you never felt like he was telling tales out of school,

making them look bad, being overly provocative or exploitative, I guess.

Or gossipy, but it was so beautifully done.

And I was like, I'm going to do it in that vein and see if I can.

And I really, I think I did

I hope I'm not conflating my urbane sophisticated English character actors but I think it was David Niven speaking of grandmothers I was watching the Oscars streaker oh yeah the streaker streaker runs by David Niven

now see that was staged for sure by the way really I'm convinced we need to get who would be the old the you know producer because here's why I always thought it was staged first of all streaking was a thing yeah it was all over the place yep it was the hippest coolest it was in the zeitgeist

and the notion that the streaker shows up and they're perfectly framed to not show something they didn't want to so you'd either catch it and have stuff in the frame you can't show so you can't use that angle yeah

or you miss it altogether

But the notion that they caught it perfectly, I call bullshit on it and always have.

It's so disappointing.

Yeah, Yeah, I don't think so.

Because my thought, he was so unflappable, though.

That was my thoughts.

He had such a great line.

His shortcomings?

Yes, yeah.

It's a shame that he's going to be remembered for his shortcomings.

It wasn't actory.

It wasn't broadcaster-y.

It was kind of hosty, but it was really just a guy.

Seemed like, oh, you know, he handled that with

the colours.

And you've got to ask yourself, how did he get there?

Who missed the naked guy backstage?

Right?

Yeah, and if he got in with his clothes on, past security, all those levels of security, when he started taking his clothes off,

nobody looked to scam.

Red flags, anybody?

Complete bullshit.

I think you're right.

Now we need to solve the Kennedy assassination.

Let's move on to that.

We've come pretty close to that.

Actually, we've had a guest on here a couple of times.

You might enjoy, a guy called Clint Hill.

Oh, I know, the Secret Service Archer.

Sure.

Of course.

He's my neighbor.

No way.

Clint Hill?

I met Clint Hill.

His book is great.

I read it.

Which one?

Five Presidents?

Travels with Mrs.

Kennedy.

Mrs.

Kennedy, yeah.

That's a good one.

It's terrific.

Yeah, it's great.

Terrific.

It's really great.

I mean, he's 92 now.

Wow.

He's 92.

I just got to tell you this, man.

I met him in a bar.

I didn't know who he was.

He was an old man standing at the bar ordering a drink.

I walked up next to him.

The bartender comes over, and this guy orders a clint.

And the bartender says,

I'm not familiar with the Clint.

This old guy reaches in his pocket, pulls out a business card with a picture of a cocktail on it and the instructions on how to make it.

And it's called The Clint.

And he hands it to the bartender.

It's one of the coolest moves I've ever seen.

No kidding.

And the bartender says, thank you.

Now, I'm sitting here watching this, so I can't ignore that.

You wouldn't ignore that.

No, I would not.

So I said,

excuse me, sir.

You strike me as a gentleman of some experience who, through time or perhaps discretion, has determined precisely what it is he enjoys in this life.

He says, I am that man.

And I said,

you also strike me as a gentleman who from time to time has encountered the sorts of frustrations that might lead a man in your position to streamline affairs and take the necessary steps to eliminate any potential miscommunications.

He says, I am that man.

No shit.

So we laugh, shake hands.

I introduce myself.

I go over, meet his wife, who I...

Does he say, hi, I'm Clint Hill, and does that ring a bell yet?

Doesn't ring a bell.

Didn't really know, didn't not know, but it wasn't like, oh my God, yes.

Right.

I hadn't read his book.

Right.

Sat down, wound up having dinner with he and his wife.

And during the course of the meal, I learn that he was in the Secret Service.

And then I learned that he guarded not one or two or three or four, but five presidents.

This is all insane to me.

I'm like, this is...

So we exchanged numbers, and I just feel like I made a friend.

But here's the crazy part of the story, Rob.

It's the day before President's Day.

So I go home, and I've had a couple of clints, to be honest, which is not a terribly, it doesn't taste great.

It doesn't taste great.

It's like a negroni, isn't it?

It's a lot of campari.

A lot of campari.

And vodka and whatnot.

Anyway, whatever.

You know, I was going to be sociable.

And it's pink, which is just so weird for like this James Bondcat to be drinking a pink cocktail.

But I go home and I Google him and I get a photo of his book, Five Presidents, and I wrote a President's Day post that basically said, look, as we toast our current president and all the past presidents, let's raise a glass, specifically one filled with the Clint,

to the author of Five Presidents.

It's a great book.

So I post a picture of the book.

I tell the story I just told you about meeting him, and I post a picture of his business card.

And the next day, maybe it's a day after, my publisher at Simon ⁇ Schuster calls me and says, What have you done?

And I said,

I just told Clint's story.

She's like, He's our author, and we now have orders for 20,000 new books.

Wow.

So then his wife calls.

Now we really become friends.

I just sold 20,000 books after drinking a few Clints, right?

And so

it's a weird, small, funny world, man.

Isn't it?

And it's why I still take stupid chances with this Facebook thing.

Sometimes, whether it's a song or a post or a, I mean, you just never know.

Look, you got to, look, at the end of the day, truly, we have our spirits, we have our bodies, we have certain things.

But one of them is our instincts, and that's all we have.

It's all we have.

Nobody went to the Hall of Fame batting a thousand.

You bet 300 you're going to the Hall of Fame.

You bet.

And the difference between

you're a baseball fan, right?

Sure.

Huge.

I mean, I just think no sport better

lends itself to

statistics.

Well, life analogies for sure.

I mean, for sure.

But just statistics, the distance, the 90 feet to first base, and you think about the number of plays at first that go.

Bang, bang, yeah.

You just think about that.

I mean, it's amazing.

It is amazing.

So much math in baseball.

Who's your team?

Dodgers.

All the way.

All the way.

Yeah.

Johe, all the the way.

So I met him.

Oh, really?

And it's a sort of, tell me what your takeaway from this story is.

Because I knew when it happened, it was significant.

So I go into the clubhouse, and he was the only person there.

And he's got the cut-off workout sweatpants on and then his full uniform at the top.

And I introduced myself and was perfectly nice.

And I say, would you mind if I take a selfie with you?

And, you know, his English is not great, but he knows.

Does he he know who you are?

Hard to tell.

Yeah.

Which is very strange for you.

Either you know or you know they don't know.

Right.

But the in-between,

I just don't know.

Right.

So, so I get the camera and I figure we're just going to stand up.

We'll take the photo.

No, no, no, no.

He gets fully dressed.

He puts the socks on.

He puts the stirrups on.

He gets the pants.

He pulls them up.

He gets the belt.

He buckles the belt.

He walks across the room to get a new hat.

He puts the new hat on.

And then and only then

does he pose for the selfie with me, which is on my Instagram page.

Amazing.

Then I go out and I sit on my seat and I'm sitting with my friend who works for the Dodgers and he goes, hey, check this out.

And it's a text from Shohei.

Ask Rob if it would be okay if I also post it.

Now you tell me what superstar on planet Earth would do that.

Do you think he knows he's he's a superstar?

And do you think most people who follow the game understand

what we're seeing?

No, they don't.

I don't think people understand.

I don't think they do.

And I'll tell you another thing, I understand the game, and I didn't understand what we were seeing until I saw him play.

You have to see him in person.

He's so big.

The thing that blew my mind, two things.

The sound of the ball coming off of his bat.

I thought I was crazy.

Ask Dave Roberts.

He's like, oh, yeah, no, we all talk about it.

There's never been a baseball player whose ball off the bat sounds like like Shoei Otani and his speed.

And now we know he's going to steal 50 bases, but opening day, he had a double down the line.

And when he made the turn at first, I could not believe my eyes.

We are blessed to have him.

It's amazing.

What was the turn?

What left you breathless about it?

He's 6'4.

He's 6'4, and he runs like a gazelle.

You just can't believe how fast he is.

Yeah.

Do you remember Frank McCourt?

Of course.

He sat right where you're sitting.

Unbelief.

Still owns the parking lot at Dodger Stadium.

Best sale.

The best sale.

Taylor has some issues with that.

Yeah.

And I love my Dodgers.

I just wish we could figure out a way to get people in and out of the stadium.

Oh, my God.

He's on a whole new mission now.

You know, he sold his share, obviously, but he's trying.

to, I think, form a consortium to buy TikTok.

I heard this.

Yeah, he wants to take the internet back.

I don't think he's messing around.

He's serious.

In fact, I'm going to hopefully see him when I'm going to Boston next year.

He wants to create an internet where individuals own their own personhood, basically, where all of your data is owned by you and you decide who gets to use it and what they pay you.

It's good just to sit back and think about in five years, two years, ten years, the discussions we will be having going, remember when?

Right.

Like, it's going to be insane.

Yeah.

It's happening.

So fast.

I don't, yeah, it just seems platitudinous to even say it, but it feels like part of it's getting older, I know, but it's the tech and it's the AI and it's so fast.

I don't think people have time to process the last breakthrough.

In the same way, we don't have time to understand what this kid means to baseball right now.

It's happening right in front of them.

Everything is happening

all at once.

Everyone's drinking from a fire hose, it feels like.

Somebody,

I've been trying to articulate what AI is going to mean to people

when asked, and everybody has their own answers to it.

But this is what I heard the other day.

It's like it would be the Gutenberg press

if the Gutenberg press then also wrote whatever book it wanted to write.

Right.

What is the

going back to that, the other thing I remember when I wasn't running from the bear with your voice in my head?

Amazing.

You said something else that stuck.

What's the point of being famous today?

Maybe it was Rogan who said it to you.

And I thought that was so interesting because here you are alive and well, living your best life, about as famous as a person gets.

But what a difference 40, 30 years makes.

Well.

In spite of all of the complexities and challenges and frankly very, very, very bad things that are going on in our world, I believe that we're living in the best time in human history.

And I believe that I was a young man in the best time to be, I mean, come on, bro, to be young, single, and

famous in the 80s.

I wouldn't trade it.

For any other decade, I don't want to be the Beatles in the 60s.

I don't want to be Valentino in the 20s.

I don't want to be Shakespeare in the 1540s.

And I sure the hell don't want to be Taylor Swift right now.

That was the time.

It was all of the good, and there was always some bad.

That was the moment in time.

And I'm just, man,

I'm just super grateful.

Just the idea, though, of a hit, a hit show back then meant 40 million

i remember i did my first tv show i was 15 years old it was 1979 there were 60 shows total on television only 60 the reason i know that is we were always number 60.

we were literally the last rated lowest rated show on all of network television and how many people watched

i think we had 30 million people right

30 million

The last place.

And it was like you were dead.

I remember even as recently as the West Wing, my follow-up show was a legal thriller called The Lion's Den that I really liked.

And I remember our ratings came out and like, oh, you're dead.

You're dead.

We did an 8.6.

You're dead.

God.

And 8.6 was a death knell.

Yeah.

Death knell.

They're looking for one in the demo.

If you get a one, you're a smash

today.

That's what I was getting at.

How do you become famous today?

What are the odds?

You have to be.

The odds are good you become famous.

The odds are bad that you stay famous.

Right.

No shelf life.

Being famous today is easier than it's ever been.

But look at the Hawk Tui girl.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know what that is.

I've never heard of it before.

Tell us more.

But you know what I mean?

It's longevity.

Longevity is very hard for the current crop of everybody.

I'm going to go back to Samo for a minute.

It just occurred to me that you and I probably shared the same stage.

The Samo High Auditorium.

You must have...

Were you doing plays?

No, no, no, no, no, don't you think?

See,

I fancied myself a pro already.

And

I wouldn't sully myself.

He's kind of a big deal with high school

plays.

Of course not.

And so, in fact, I had never been backstage there, ever, until about

three months ago, the boys and I were filming a little documentary, or I forget what it was, but we were filming in the wings, and they're written, everybody who'd ever been there writes on the wall, and there's a thing, it says Emilio Estevez

up there.

Sure, I saw it, yeah.

Well, there's no Rob Lowe back there.

I was in the pro leagues.

Come on.

In the NFL.

I just, it's so.

By the way, so here's a great one.

You remember Rick Monday, the baseball player?

Sure.

So next time you're at Samo, go look at home plate and then look at what they used to call the boys' gym back when there could be such a thing as the boys' gym and the girls' gym.

The boys' gym, Rick Monday hit a ball off the roof when he was at Samoa.

Wow.

And people talked about it.

I wonder if people even remember it, but it was lore and legend when I went there.

I never thought about it, I mean, I was telling Rob earlier, we filmed the way I heard it there, all of the Spalding Gray stage beats and that thing.

And I never thought of what it must be like to be already famous while you're in high school.

But of course, this would be the place where that would happen.

Here's an added element that makes it even freakier.

Already famous, but unemployed.

Like, I thought my career was over already because I had a TV series at 15, and all of a sudden, I wasn't working.

And I was like, was this it?

Was I a one-hit wonder?

Yeah.

And I was like, I know, I'll be a marine biologist.

That's what I was going to go do.

You really thought that was lights out.

That was it?

I thought it was over.

God bless her.

There was a casting director named Janet Hershenson who cast a lot of big movies.

And she was like, They're just hiring 18-year-olds because of the child labor laws.

They can work longer than 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds.

It's not you.

Give it until you're 18.

And I'll be damned if I didn't turn 18 on the set of the outsiders.

Did I hallucinate this?

Or did you tell a story once upon a time about that time period, and you caught maybe Jack Nicholson's eye in traffic or something like that?

Like Jack Nicholson looked over at you and gave you a thumbs up or some kind of encouraging word.

Oh, that.

I think, if anything, Jack Nicholson looked across the floor of the Lakers game in the 80s when we were dating the same women and gave me the

kill you sign across his neck.

Did he, really?

I think maybe that's what you're thinking.

Could be.

Could be.

I don't know, man.

Kill you, punk.

Wow.

Get out of my dojo.

Who was the girl at that point?

There was a couple of them.

But that's the they go getting older, now I look at Jack and I go, wait, we were swimming in the same river?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

A river runs through it.

There's a big difference between 47 and 27 and 60 and 80.

Right.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, in fact, I do.

Right?

Yeah, things happen real quick nowadays.

Really quick.

Real quick.

I just remember some girl saying to Jack, Rob thought he'd come over and we'd all.

And he goes, that sounds like three's company to me.

I don't want to keep you all day.

This is great.

This is so fun.

But I do want to land the plane back sort of where we started with this

with your boys, man.

I love that he came here.

I didn't even know he was coming.

He's probably right home.

You know, what happened was, is

I remember talking to Sarah, you know, and she said, you know, is it okay if Matthew comes along?

And I was like, I was like, yeah, no problem.

I asked Mike.

I was like, no problem.

And then just earlier today, I was like, oh, wait a minute.

I know Rob's son wanted to be here.

So I called your new guy.

Oh, that's so great.

I'm so glad it all worked out.

I said to you off camera, you and Deadliest Catch are kind of like what Elton John was to me on the radio in my childhood, you were

for my raising my kids.

It's nighttime.

I've gotten home.

We've got a couple hours before they got to go to bed.

What are we going to watch?

And I mean, years and years and years of it.

It's a huge pleasure.

I didn't know, of course.

You never know it when you're in the thick of it.

But I wanted to tell you, too, your love affair with Curiosity.

You know, I did have a front row seat to the Discovery Channel.

I knew John Hendricks when he formed it.

from his garage, basically, one of the great entrepreneurs of all time, basically pirating space, a transponder off a satellite and buying these documentaries from Australia and beaming them down.

And he just, he had this vision in his head that something could be done on TV that really hadn't been done.

We came close with Marlon Perkins, came close with the Wild Kingdom.

But that, you could still see the mitts of broadcast all over that, right?

For sure.

This thing,

as I'm sure you know, Discovery has since purchased Warner Brothers.

They're now the largest entertainment conglomerate on the planet.

But it all starts with John Hendricks.

I asked him in the late 80s, you know, what's the real plan and

what are you looking for and how are you thinking about TV and everything else?

And he shrugged and he said, I have one agenda,

three words, to satisfy curiosity.

That's it.

Everything this company does under my tutelage will satisfy curiosity in some way, shape, or form.

Wow.

And I got him toward the end of it before David Zaslov came in.

And so shows like Dirty Jobs, shows like Deadliest Catch, they were new.

You said that we had kind of traded mystery for

authenticity.

My rap around that same time was saying we were transitioning from authority to authenticity.

So Marlon Perkins was an authoritative voice in David Attenborough and all.

of them.

They're up in the ether.

That's right.

Cousteau and Jane Goodall.

Those people, I love them to this day.

Terrific.

But if you really watched what happened over there through the lens of how curiosity shifted, I just think it's so interesting that suddenly a guy like me could wind up at the center of some of these shows who in fact doesn't know anything.

like a true dilettante who tries to be honest about his shortcomings and just look under the the rock or crawl through the sewer or haul up the pot and see what might be in there, you know.

And somehow, dude, when nobody was looking, that became dominant

in my little lane.

Yeah.

And your little lane powered the company that's powering the whole industry now.

Well, from your mouth to everybody else's ears, but yeah, there was a time when jobs, Deadly's Catch, and Mythbusters pulled that whole train.

We always knew what we would be watching.

It's so amazing to hear that from you.

And I know you deal with it every day, but when you grow up with somebody, I deliberately try to not ask you any of the questions you typically get asked about all of the things that you've done.

But

to imagine that you guys 20 years ago were watching me do this, that, and the other thing,

it's a consummation devoutly to be wished.

Wow.

You know?

I mean, literally,

the last voice I might hear might be,

meanwhile, back on the Cornelia Marie.

134 miles north, northwest of Dutch.

Oh, come on, let's

go.

Right?

When's the next fishing trip?

This made me think, we've got to have that.

We've got to bring him on a boat.

It'll be great.

I love the idea that I could be the last voice you ever hear.

No, I'm telling you.

It's like there are certain, I don't know, it could be Mitt going, please allow me to introduce yourself.

It could be John Lennon saying Strawberry Fields.

I put it up in that category.

Some high cotton, my friend.

Yeah, indeed.

If I can ever return the favor, don't hesitate to ask.

For sure.

I know the podcast game is a barking dog at the back door.

You might love it, but before you know it, it's time to record another one.

It always is unbelievable.

Dude, it's one of those things that compresses time.

This guy, my old dear best friend buddy, is so far up my ass now.

Every time I turn around, there's a new stack of ads.

get in.

It can be unpleasant.

Yeah, it's just a conveyor belt.

It is.

But once you're in it, man.

See, this is why we do it because this feels like time stopped.

It's just like, all right, on Wednesday, we're going to drive the hookah.

Kind of dragged at the end a little, I thought, but by and large, I mean, I thought we did okay.

We came out hot.

I think we did.

We came out hot.

There's so much to unpack in this one.

There is.

I love the fact that a guy who made his living from scripts

is now in this world

of quasi-teleprompted see-to-your-pants game shows and totally off-the-grid podcasting.

I love that you're curious.

I love that you've evolved and pivoted.

You have to meet the audience where they are.

You have to.

And I was at a place the other day where there's a room full of 28, 30-year-olds, and I'm not being facetious, and I'm not exaggerating for the point of it, they did not know who Bob Dylan was.

Yeah.

And

by the way, Bob Dylan doesn't give a shit, nor should he.

Right.

But my point being, if one of the things you aspire to is to be relevant today

and continue to be in relationship

with an audience, you've got to meet them where they are.

Right.

How in the world, I'm sorry, I know we got a split, but how in the world?

Like everything in me

wants to talk to people who share my frame of reference.

Yeah, for sure.

Like, when you're talking about the 80s, I just want to explode with, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that, and then there's that, and then there's that.

Because it becomes more important to people, I think, as they get older, right, to circle back at the time.

And remember, yeah.

So, how in the world do you talk to somebody who doesn't know who Bob Dylan was or who never saw a rotary phone?

Well, it's like, what's the great Yacht Rock?

Come back to you.

Steely Dan,

Walter Fagan, Hay 19.

We got nothing in common.

She don't remember the queen of soul.

I mean, to me,

that is really the ultimate, isn't it?

Right.

Thanks to you, I'm going to go home and I'm going to listen to more of that, Sammy.

Yeah, I'm going to do it too, baby.

Hey, man, it's going to be fantastic.

Hey, man, how good could I be?

I'm blind in one eye.

You can do it, pal, man.

You can do it.

You can do,

since you invoked Steely Dan.

I don't know that they were ever better than Countdown to Ecstasy.

A lot of people say Gaucho is the one.

It's a good one, but I listened to Countdown to Ecsta.

I'm going to do it.

What's the hit off that?

Is that like bad sneakers or

my old school?

Mild school is amazing.

Screaming on it.

It's so many.

I know, I know.

I know.

We're getting the wrap-up.

If we go down, listen, if we start up on Yacht Rock or Steely Dan, we're going to be able to, the sun comes up.

I'm trying to help you.

I think you have a call.

Christopher Cross.

We're shedding listeners now.

Shedding.

Run for your life.

I want to say goodbye.

Rob Lowe, everybody.

You're the best.

All right.

That was fun.

Sir.

When you leave a review, which we hope that you'll do, tell us who you are, tell us who.

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little

stars

Did you see the game last night?

Of course you did because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock.

Plus, you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play.

And that's on multitasking.

So we're not saying that Instacart is a hack for game day, but it might be the ultimate play this football season.

Enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders.

Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days, excludes restaurants.