410: Nathan Fillion—Kind of a Big Deal

Mike Rowe here with another episode of The Way I Heard It.

This one is called, well, I'm not going to tell you what it's called yet.

You're going to have to wait for it.

Wow.

Because honestly, I'm still wrestling with it, Chuck.

Are you?

Yeah, a little bit.

Because I'll tell you this.

This is my favorite conversation of all time.

All time?

For this podcast.

Wow.

That's great.

And part of the reason is is because it's a really good conversation.

And modesty aside, by any measure, but it was also a chance for me to connect with an old friend who I haven't seen in over 20 years.

It was a guy who I spent a lot of time with in New York and had some crazy fun times.

And then he went on and became incredibly famous.

And we haven't really stayed in touch over the years, but to acknowledge the fact from time to time that we'd each been tracking and triangulating the exploits of one another on the TV.

Right.

So let me just first say that sitting down with an old friend and reminiscing is one of the greatest things a human can do.

You know what the second greatest thing a human can do?

Record it and sell ads against it.

For me, it was watching two old friends

reunite.

Tell me.

First of all, I know you very well and have for a long time.

I know of Nathan because of you, but that's it.

I don't know really anything about him.

But for me to sit here from this little perch and look to my left and my right and see these two guys who haven't seen each other in person since, what, 1990 something?

It would have been probably, yeah, God.

I hate to say it, but yeah, it would have been 99, probably 98, 99.

Well, I found it really, I mean, not to get sappy, but it was heartwarming.

It was nice.

It was really good to, you know, like I said, I know you.

I know a lot about you.

Some of the stories that you guys shared, I already knew, and many I didn't.

And he told stories that you had forgotten.

And it was so great to like sit here and see you guys catch up.

It's kind of why this thing went a little long.

Yeah.

Well, look, I mean, maybe it's a little too inside.

I loved every second of it.

I remember why I love this guy.

Like, he shows up 15 minutes early with gifts.

With gifts, yeah.

Seems like a great guy.

He's been doing that his whole life.

He's Canadian, which you can't hold against him, really.

He's very famous.

If you don't know him, I mean, he's a legend in the Comic-Con world, the Marvel Universe.

Starting Castle.

Oh, yeah.

Starting Castle, currently starring in the rookie.

Season seven starts January of 2025.

Yeah, I mean, he plays a cop, John Nolan.

He's so good.

He's so good at everything he does.

He's a trained actor.

He's a thespian.

He's done a ton of work on stage.

He's doing a thing.

We don't talk about it in the podcast, but he's doing something on Netflix now called Big Mouth, which is funny.

Funny.

He plays an exaggerated version of himself.

It's animated.

And it is sassy and saucy and wrong a thousand different ways, but funny.

He's a triple threat.

You know, he can sing.

He can dance.

And boy, can he act.

When I met him, he was playing Joey Buchanan,

major soap star.

What was it?

Days of Our Lives, I guess it was.

Was it Days of Our Lives?

Pretty sure it was Days.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Brooke Alexander.

That was out here?

No, that was New York.

Was Days of Our Lives out in New York?

Because I did Days of Our Lives in the 80s.

I kind of think it's not.

Google it.

See where Joey Buchanan is.

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if we knew this

properly?

But look, if you know his work, then you know what a talent he is.

But if you don't know him, if you haven't dug in and read what people have said and really dug into some of the interviews,

then he's just a mensch.

Everybody loves this guy.

You've got my internet, by the way.

Oh, is that right?

It's plugged in right there.

Anyway.

Anyway,

here's what I'm wrestling with.

There's so many laugh out loud moments coming up that this episode is either going to be called Nathan Fillion, kind of a big deal, or Nathan Phillian Out of the Gift Closet.

Because he's got this gift closet.

You know what?

Yeah, you'll hear about it.

It was One Life to Live.

It was One Life to Live.

one life to live that's a new york one yeah that's the one yeah anyhow let's go with nathan fillion kind of a big deal because he is in every way that a successful actor can be what a pleasure to catch up with my old friend you're gonna love him i promise and you're gonna meet him right after this

This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks.

Look, as the producer of this show, I make decisions every day, from which guest to have on next to when I should start looking for a new producing job.

I got a lot to decide.

But on prize picks, deciding right can get me paid.

So I'm telling you, don't miss any of the excitement this football season on prize picks where it is good to be right.

And it's simple to play.

You just pick more or less on at least two player stats.

If you get your picks right, you win.

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You want to pick more on Josh Allen's pass yards, rush yards, and touchdowns?

No problem.

You can pick all three of them in the same lineup.

You can only do that on PrizePicks.

You can also follow other Prize Picks players directly on the app and copy their lineups in one click.

Now whether it's a celebrity partner or your best friend or just someone whose picks you like, you just hit the follow button and check out every lineup they create in the new feed tab on PrizePicks.

Look, if you want to get started today, just download the app and use code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

That's code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Prize picks, it's good to be right, so keep your eye on the prize.

Keep your eyes on the prize at prizepicks.com slash mike.

It's not even a joke, man.

Nathan just said that he would actually get us a slate so we could officially and properly begin these things instead of poor Taylor clapping his hands.

There's something about the hand clap, too, right?

Authentic, warm, human.

Yeah, it's hands, right?

In Taylor's case, no.

Yes, yes, hands.

Are they calloused, hard working hands, or are they the soft?

Let me see him, Taylor.

I have the second softest hands

in Hollywood.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who has the first?

Andy Sandberg.

That does track.

This is true.

That's

shaking a sponge.

It's not even, it was like cupping a baby's bottom.

It's just,

and he looked at me and said, you have very soft hands.

I said, never seen a day work in their lives.

You have really soft hands.

He said, and that's the joke I always use.

That's true.

I have the second softest hand.

You know, it's weird.

My hands are medium to small, and people expect they're going to be like frying pans.

And they also expect they're just going to be covered with calluses and hair.

And when you stand in line for hours on end, as you've done many times, meeting people and shaking their hands, for me, because the show I worked on was that show, the dirty jobbers will line up, you know, for miles on end.

And they're not content to merely shake.

They want that crushing bone.

They want to grab you with one hand.

And then with their left hand, they want to put their big meaty mitt on your shoulder.

Oh.

And then they want to stare into your eyes and they want to tell you about the time something happened to them that resulted in an explosion of filth.

Everybody has their stories.

My guys, they like to tell them while they're crushing my hand.

And you're praying for a short story.

Typically, yeah.

And this happens, like, where's the weirdest place you ever met a fan who was a true fan but simply couldn't stop themselves from

sharing everything they needed to share?

I think I was going in for a colonoscopy.

And,

you know, it's kind of chilly in those rooms and you got a little paper gown on and you're in that kind of twilight kind of, you're in that pre-drugged right before they put you under kind of state.

And it was chilly and the fellas had to bring in the warm blankets.

Yes, yes.

And of course, mentally, you're in a fairly vulnerable state of mind.

Fairly vulnerable, yeah.

We all know what's going to happen.

Yep.

And I think for me, in those situations, I'm just looking around subconsciously for visual positive cues, just signs that everything's going to be okay.

And yeah, so go ahead.

For us, it's a big deal, but for him, it's like, we're doing 12 of these today.

It's old hat, you know.

So for him, it's business as usual.

God bless him.

I did a digital rectal check on the air once.

Whoa, hang on.

It was a prostate exam.

Prostate.

I believe is what they called it.

Well, yes, but I just want to say that.

Digital rectal check.

So really

analog.

Yes.

Yeah.

Not so much digital.

I suppose it was.

I was going to say, what kind of equipment are they using for that?

But you meant fingers.

You meant digital.

Digitally, yes.

With digits.

Of course.

Yeah.

Well, this happened.

It was a pretty famous director who wanted to do a PSA for colon cancer, and he asked me if I'd be game for this.

And I said, you know, I would.

And my doctor said a really funny thing to me one time.

He said, there's only two circumstances whereby a patient enters my office and doesn't leave without my finger going into his rectum.

And I said, his name is Dr.

Schlane.

I said, tell me, what are the circumstances?

And he said, no finger, no rectum.

But as long as I have fingers and you have a rectum, we're going to have a look around up there.

These are the discussions we have to have now at our age.

I don't know that we have to have them, but we're having it, man.

This is the norm now.

I am growing older.

I am finding out, oh, this aches, this hurts, this.

And oh, yeah, the doctor put his finger in there.

At least he said it was his finger.

No.

From my

friend, Mike.

Hey,

what did you bring me?

What gift is this?

That is a little camera drone that I found.

I've been hoping and wanting for this kind of technology for ages because I don't know if you know, drones are very hard to fly.

Taylor?

Yeah?

Not easy.

Yeah, yeah.

Not easy.

So this thing basically has little pre-programmed flights that you can tweak as you need.

You press a button, it goes off, it does a thing, and it comes back and it lands in your hand.

And then you get these tremendous shots.

And it's underweight, so you don't need a certificate, you don't need a permit.

It just, by the time someone says, hey, is that a drawer, it's folded up, it's in your pocket, you're gone.

You are somewhat famous for that weird nexus between nerddom and geekdom.

You're a gadget guy.

And so I'm not really, so how long will it take me?

Just, I'm not a big instruction guy either.

How intuitive is this?

I will send you a little YouTube video that you will watch while this is charging, and you'll kind of half-mindedly download the app, and then you'll be an expert.

Do you like jerky?

Beef jerky?

That's the first time anyone's asked me that today.

I got you this.

It's Jed's beef jerky.

It's pretty good.

I also got you a bottle of my grandfather's whiskey.

God bless you.

I'm so glad I brought a gift now.

Look, I knew you would.

And I knew that because it's very difficult to know where to start with you.

Let's start at the beginning.

Okay.

Brooks apartment, 1996?

Five.

Really?

Well, it could have been six.

I moved to New York sort of in 93 and in fits and starts kept coming back.

And then you're right, Brooke Alexander.

Yeah.

Brooke Alexander had a party.

Had like a barbecue because she had that funky two-level apartment and then in her bedroom you could go up these stairs and there was a small door to a outdoor patio.

Upper West Side?

Yeah.

Yeah, that was Upper West.

She was something else.

You knew her from the Soaps, I guess?

Yeah.

I've run into her a couple of of times over the years.

How's she doing?

She looks lovely.

She always looked lovely.

She's having a great time.

That thing lives on the edge of my memory.

The apartment I really remember was the night I met you.

You remember Laura Solomon?

Yes.

And, of course, her friend and yours, Tuck.

Tuck Watkins.

Right.

So.

I walk into this apartment,

and

I got there before you did.

And you walked in, and

you had gifts for people.

You started handing out gifts.

You gave a gift to Laura, and you gave a gift to someone else.

And I asked you, I said, is this like a housewarming thing, or is it occasionally somebody's birthday?

And you were like, I don't know.

I don't think so.

And then you kind of looked at me the way you're looking at me now.

Like, why?

Doesn't everyone bring gifts all of the time?

When I was growing up, my mother had a gift closet.

So I was like, oh, I'm going to a birthday party.

She goes, great, go to the closet and pick out something appropriate.

And there'd be little, there'd be some gift bags, some tissue.

You go, oh, healing love this.

Throw it in there.

There's a card.

You write it out.

You're on your way.

So when did you come out of the gift closet, Nathan?

I started mine 15 years ago when I bought my first house.

My only house.

I'll say that.

The only house I've ever bought.

Was this Hover Air X1 in the closet?

That was in the closet.

And so this is in the rotation now now for

your very special friends.

There were three of them in there

two weeks ago.

I went to another birthday a week ago, and now there's one left in there.

So I'll have to restock on those.

This is one of the reasons why he doesn't appear to have any enemies.

Everybody likes him.

Everybody does like him, right?

Everybody likes him.

And this was true back in the old days, and obviously it's true now.

Full disclosure, I don't have a gift closet.

I barely have a closet.

But I stay around the corner at a hotel, and the woman who runs it is a friend of mine, and she read somewhere once upon a time that I stopped eating sweets and started eating jerky.

And now, every time I check in, there's a bag of Jed's hand-crafted beef jerky waiting for me.

I have probably 30 pounds of jerky.

I'm thinking of getting a jerky closet,

but I just knew you were going to bring something fabulous.

At least a pantry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So here's when I knew that sometime in the future you and I were going to sit down to discuss your path.

I knew it that night

because after that party over, I think if it wasn't at Laura's, it might have been at Tuck's.

One apartment was right above each other, so who knows?

Right.

But we went to my favorite Mexican restaurant.

in New York at the time later that night.

Which one was that?

It was Harry's.

Harry's burrito.

I have a Harry's burrito story, but keep going.

Okay.

so

most of the people that were at the party are in the restaurant and we kind of spread out and you and I are sitting at the bar drinking margaritas.

You ordered was like the ultimate or the supremo or you remember what it was?

Chicken and black beans.

It was like a football.

It was massive.

It was massive and you were just plowing through it and we were talking and laughing.

And

I guess at that point, were you still Joey?

Oh yes.

Oh yeah.

You're still Joey.

You were telling me you had come from a Walmart where you had done one of these meet and greets.

Yes.

And I said,

What do you think is going to happen to you?

Clearly, you're going to become a big deal, but do you know how it's going to happen?

And again, you're looking at me just the way you did then, except you got a mouthful of burrito and you're holding on to this margarita.

And you said,

I kind of already am a big deal.

And I laughed like you're laughing right now.

And I thought, you know something?

Two things I've learned that are critical for every successful person that I admire.

They have to be in on the joke and they have to be fundamentally grateful.

Uh-huh.

Yes.

Yes.

That's you.

For as long as I've known you, you've looked for the joke.

You've been in on it.

You've never taken yourself too seriously.

That's true.

You're never afraid to say say whatever fool thing pops into your head.

I might be afraid, but maybe I just don't show it very much.

But you're weirdly polite.

You're mannerly.

You're still one of those guys who probably stand up when a girl walks in the room.

That's right, I do that.

It's very old-fashioned, but I do that.

At the table, at the table.

At the table.

Yes, at the table.

Courtly, they would call it.

Thank you.

And you show up with gifts.

There's that.

So I remember talking to my girlfriend at the time about you and saying,

if there were a line on this guy in Vegas, I'd bet on him.

And then

Way leads on the way, we go our separate paths.

But buddy, over the last 25 years, what a treat to turn on the TV.

And whether it's Dr.

Horrible or two guys, girl, the Pizza Place thing,

I just...

I've been tickled this whole time to watch your career unfold.

And I can say the exact same thing about you.

Then go ahead, do it.

And take your time.

I mean, really lean into it.

There's a few things, you remember when you used to surf channels?

Just channel surfing type of stuff.

There were a few things that would stop my afternoon and say, ah, cancel my plans.

One was Groundhog Day, one was Shawshank Redemption, and one was Dirty Jobs.

Wow.

Wow.

Okay, that's some high cotton.

Because it was always going to be extremely entertaining.

You would always come up with one or six gems.

Nothing falls on my lap on purpose.

Something that just made me free, that just would throw me into a giggle fit and go, oh my God, that's so Mike.

It's so Mike.

And how happy everybody around you filming you and doing these shit would just say, just...

Roll cameras and just let them go.

That's all they have to do.

It's just let you rip.

And that you found a career where you just sit and do what you love to do.

You are a wordsmith, the best storyteller I have ever encountered, and I've encountered a few.

I

think of you fondly, and I mean, sound is such a sense that's so strongly linked to memory.

And,

buddy, you are a part of my

journey, my path, but it feels like you've been ever-present.

Isn't it odd how, as time goes by, those seemingly random margaritas and burritos once upon a time, like it's not like I went home and wrote any of that in a journal.

No, it was just a thing.

And then time, it just keeps going.

And then as we try and maybe anticipate a future, we look back to the past for these talismans and these harbingers of things to come.

And all of a sudden, these moments re-emerge.

And then to be able to sit at this point in our life and just in the last 20 minutes talk about fingers, rectums, beef jerky, technology, mothers,

closets.

I knew it would feel this way with you, but it feels to me like we could be sitting in Harry's burrito, and that feels like it was about 10 minutes ago.

Let's go back to Harry's Burritos.

All right.

There is a 40 to 65% chance that that evening at Harry's Burritos,

Alan Tudik, movie star,

voice actor, character actor, extraordinaire.

He's terrific there.

Dancer, theater, Juilliard trained, was in attendance.

No.

Yes.

Because he was a waiter at Harry's Burritos.

When I first met him and we were starting to hang out and we did firefight together, I said, oh my God, you're going back to New York?

Please go have a burrito fruit, my favorite Mexican restaurant.

He said, where is it?

I said, 71st, between 71st and 72nd on Columbus.

Harry's burritos, he stopped and said,

wait a minute.

Were you the guy?

And he remembered me.

And I remember, clearly, it opened up the doors in your mind, right?

But yeah, so he was our waiter.

What a blast.

Now, he was,

what was his character in Firefly?

He was Wash the Pilot.

Wash.

He was the pilot.

This is like the very definition of witty repartee.

You guys got that down down pretty quick.

Alan, Alan is like you.

He is an incredible storyteller.

He is wildly entertaining.

And

he'll do the characters in the story.

So he doesn't just tell you the story, he plays the characters as well.

So it's really entertaining to watch.

This episode is brought to you by PrizePicks.

Look, as the producer of this show, I make decisions every day, from which guest to have on next to when I should start looking for a new producing job.

I got a lot to decide.

But on prize picks, deciding right can get me paid.

So I'm telling you, don't miss any of the excitement this football season on prize picks where it is good to be right.

And it's simple to play.

You just pick more or less on at least two player stats.

If you get your picks right, you win.

And prize picks is the only app that offers stacks, meaning you can pick the same player up to three times in the same lineup.

You want to pick more on Josh Allen's pass yards, rush yards, and touchdowns?

No problem.

You can pick all three of them in the same lineup.

You can only do that on PrizePicks.

You can also follow other PrizePicks players directly on the app and copy their lineups in one click.

Now, whether it's a celebrity partner or your best friend or just someone whose picks you like, you just hit the follow button and check out every lineup they create in the new feed tab on PrizePicks.

Look, if you want to get started today, just download the app and use code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

That's code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Prize picks, it's good to be right, so keep your eye on the prize.

Keep your eyes on the prize at prize picks.com slash Mike.

Go back to the to the remote drops for a minute.

I'm so interested in that Groundhog Day.

Why?

Yeah, it's a good question.

Why?

I think there's something really wonderful about the concept of the opportunity of the do-over.

If you could just every day you could try it until you get it right something very very pleasing about that and essentially that's kind of my job the way that's kind of the way I do my job a work in progress same thing for me that's on my list and really I think for the same reason the way I ask myself is like

I don't think I have any natural talent on the piano.

I know where the keys are, and I'm musical, but I don't have great rhythm and I can't really play.

And so watching watching him learn to play the piano made me think, I wonder how long would it take me to actually learn that?

You can go to websites.

How long

was in the story was Bill Murray trapped in this cycle?

And people have written massive articles that

predict, right, like how long would it take him to learn to play the piano, to learn to do all these other things.

And then that movie takes on a quality, kind of like it's a wonderful life, where there's some scary shit going on under the surface, like really scary.

The concept that was it hell, was it purgatory?

Right.

Right?

Was he on a path of punishment or redemption?

Yeah.

He's not merely waylaid in puxitani.

That whole thing is a metaphor for something much, much greater.

And

some people say, you're talking about hundreds, maybe even a thousand years.

Geez.

Yeah.

I mean, there's some really dark articles about what that must have been like.

It's funny, they're sunny and chair, the clock flips over.

Oh, it's another day.

But then it's torture.

He's trying to kill himself every day.

He does.

He does do it several times.

Except he comes back.

He can't even get that right.

So to realize that you're

trapped and blessed at the same time.

This is your redemption.

It's going to take a while.

But he didn't even realize it was written.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that movie.

And he's such a lovely actor.

He does such a good job.

Have you had a pleasure of working with him?

Never once.

Really?

Never.

There's lots of actors I've not worked with.

Impossible.

But here's what's funny and interesting about you and Bill Murray: his version of the gift thing is just showing up at parties,

showing up at weddings, just uninvited, hanging out, crashing it, tending bar, and then leaving people with

just a stunning isn't there a documentary like the Bill Murray stories of

the music.

He showed up at United Artist Movies when we were ushers there.

Liz Boyer was the cashier Caddyshack had opened.

Are you kidding?

Yes.

Yeah.

You don't remember that story?

You guys were ushers together?

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

This is high school.

This is after high school.

It's kind of both.

Cuspy, yeah.

Cuspy.

Yeah, we were still in school and then off and on for a couple of years.

Yeah, this, I think, it was one of the first multiplexes in the country.

It was the United Artist Golden Ring Mall, and there were five of them.

And they had two of them down by the heck company and three of them down by the Montgomery Wards.

The Montgomery Wards, yeah.

Did you guys have those little

push-powered broom sweeper devices?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I love those things.

Is that weird?

No, love those things.

Well, no, for you, no, that's not weird.

Because that would pass for tech.

That's a beautiful piece of engineering.

Like when you think about the gift that you brought me compared to just a dustbin on a pole,

like at a glance, you'd be like, you know, look how far we've come.

But really, a thing that keeps you from having to bend down, it almost makes picking up trash kind of fun.

It's a treat to do it.

It's like erasing.

It's so...

It's like an eraser.

You're right.

It does.

It just, you know, and it can leave a mark.

We used that thing, he did, to great effect.

I'm sure you've had lots and lots of jobs where you get to the realization that what you really need to do is amuse yourself in order to survive.

Like your job might be to entertain people or your job might be to tear the tickets or whatever, but in the end, you have to find a way to amuse yourself.

And he and I would.

Do you have a tissue?

Is there like a tissue available?

No tissue.

Yeah.

Tissue.

Tell him.

Yeah, get him some toilet paper or something.

Thanks.

Yeah, I think that's the closest thing to tissue.

I mean, it is tissue, if you think about it.

I mean, it is bath tissue.

I'm not above it.

It is bath tissue.

It's soft enough for your rectum.

Rectum hell, damn.

Damn near killed him.

Yeah.

Yeah, wait for the tissue.

I mean, there's a Bible right there, but wait for the tissue.

Yeah, please.

God bless you.

Thanks.

So, this is what happens.

God, make it loud.

Blow that thing.

Blow it hard.

We would do these things called Brodies.

Basically, Pratt Falls.

Yeah.

Right.

And we'd do them in front of as many people as we could.

A full theater.

Yeah.

Or a full restaurant, you know, like leaving a pizza hut one time.

I was, my friend Pat Paul said, Mike, you're going to love this one.

And at the door on the way out were maybe 30 or 40 wooden high chairs.

And they're all stacked up

and they're together, right?

So Pat gets up.

He's just one of those guys that takes up all the air in the room, you know, and like people just wind up looking at him, even just because he just exists, you know?

And he's up and he's kind of noisy and he's walking around and he's taking big steps.

And he intentionally hooks his foot

on the edge of one of these wooden high chairs.

And the whole rack of them goes down.

And you know, when wood smashes in the wood, it's clattering, right?

Now he's tangled up in it and he's screaming.

He's screaming and he's pinwheeling his arms

and the high tears are falling.

It takes him probably 10 seconds to get all the way to the ground.

And when he finally lands and the clattering stops, the entire pizza hut is just a frozen tableau.

People are just shocked.

So he holds the standard, but you came back from checking the thermometer.

The thermometer.

Yeah, it was down in front of the theater.

So you had to walk all the way down the center aisle of the movie theater and then go over to the side with your little pen light and you go, oh, yeah, it looks good.

And then you turn it off and then you walk up.

And as I would walk up, I would turn back to look at the show and then I would catch my foot on my other foot and just go ass over teacups and fall down.

And people were like, oh, my God.

And they would try to hold me.

To completely ruin the movie.

But oh, I'm falling.

And down he goes, crash.

Yeah, I mean, you can really heighten the effect with that little broom.

I'd love tripping over that thing on purpose.

I'm imagining the damage you guys would have done had there been TikTok at the time.

We would have gotten fired a lot sooner than we did.

A lot sooner, sure.

And justifiably.

You, as I remember, I don't know of anybody who loved a great prank better than you.

Here's the thing.

I do like little pranks that say, oh my God, you thought about this for a long time.

You took time to arrange this.

But nobody gets hurt.

Nothing gets damaged.

I had a guy come up to my car one time at work and uh

this is many years ago and uh gummy worms have been placed across my windshield wipers on a hot day in august

it is a sugary melted mess all along my and propped up underneath my brake pedal was a crushed traffic cone i'm going What the hell is

who would do this?

And my brother goes, hey, that's for doing the thing to me.

And I said, I didn't do that.

Yeah.

Oh,

sorry.

It's like, yeah.

Well, fine line.

Yeah, there's, I mean, I got to clean this up now.

I got to do this.

I was at work.

Here's my birthday on my present job, my first season of my present job.

I went to my car.

It was full of balloons.

I had to go get some pins to make room for me in the car.

I had to pop them all these balloons.

And then you tidy up the balloon shrapnel later.

That's a harmless little joke that took people some real time, some lung power to fill those damn balloons.

Yeah, it took time and effort, and it says, I love you.

Those are the kind of pranks I'm into.

Do you do those?

You said something very kind to me earlier.

It was fun on dirty jobs.

Oh.

It was stressful, strenuous, disgusting, and dangerous, but so much fun.

Looking back, I never really thought about it at the time, but a lot of that people take their cue from me, especially in an unscripted show.

You have a lot of permission or leeway to kind of set a tone.

What is it like in the scripted world when you're, what do they call it, the number one, the lead, whatever it is?

Do you consciously set a tone?

I mean,

I think I am consciously the way I am because I enjoy my job.

There's no place I'd rather be.

I'm not in my mind saying, I'm going to behave like this so everyone else does as well.

It's kind of just my expectation that you're going to be cool at work.

But I've had jobs that were stressful, and I've had jobs that are fantastic, and I don't change the way I behave in any way.

And people say, hey, man, it's due to you that it comes from the top.

And I say, that's really nice.

But I've learned it takes a village because one sour grape, man, can cause a lot of stress.

A lot of stress.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think in so many ways, I mean, the scripted world is still a mystery to me.

I've done some.

You should come do my show.

All right.

Will you?

Yeah, sure.

That's legally binding.

I got it recorded.

Obviously, I owe you one.

Give me a release.

I'll sign anything.

No, I would love to.

I played Tim Allen's younger brother.

How'd that go?

It was great, you know, because Tim sets a tone, and Hector was terrific, and that whole cast was really, really tight.

But Tim knew, you know, from so much experience that it was a job, and he wanted his people out of there by like nine o'clock.

You know, it wasn't the friends thing where it's two in the morning, and there's still tests and takes, and it's nothing like that.

What was it like on

Two Guys and a Girl?

Was that your first sitcom?

That was my first and only sitcom.

I mean, I've guessed it on others, but yeah, that's what do they call the banker's hours of television.

You sort of work four and a half days a week.

Yeah.

And one evening in there somewhere.

You put on a play.

And you put on a play for an audience who's glad to see it.

And you do that for three weeks and then you get a week off.

There's a regret I have.

I really should have taken advantage of that week off.

I just traveled the world, just see some incredible things, do some amazing things, just achieve something.

And instead, I was like, I got all week to sit on my ass.

And Harry's burrito, having another Ultimate Supremo.

Okay, let's go back.

I want to go back to another memory of New York.

It got me thinking about it with the push broom because I was living on 68th Street.

You were down the street.

You were 2468.

I was 2468, and you were down the street, 24.

I was never good with addresses.

No, you were four.

You were three buildings down, two or three buildings down.

Yeah.

And one evening, I think I called you.

I can't remember who called who.

You said,

I thought you were in a Greek restaurant

because I could hear

smashing and crashing behind you.

The tinkle of ceramic on floor is what I was imagining.

Oh, God, I know.

And I said, what's going on?

You said, you have to come and see this.

I said, what's happening?

He said, I can't even describe this.

It's something you must see with your eyes.

And I went to your house.

Now, please tell everybody what I saw.

You saw a kind of Armageddon.

You saw...

the wake of a disaster that would be most associated, I would think, with a flood or some kind of a hurricane.

What happened began a week earlier when I was running late for my train to go down to Baltimore, and I was in the shower of an apartment I was subletting.

Okay, this is important.

I'm subletting it.

This is somebody else's discipline.

This is somebody else's thing, and I've been living in there about three months, and I'm in the shower, and the water goes off.

I'm fully lathered, right?

I'm covered in soap, and I'm late for a train.

And I'm turning the knobs off, on,

but this water's gone.

So I clean up as best I can.

I go to the train, I make it, I get to Baltimore, I'm filming down there all week.

I come back a week later, this day,

this day you're describing, and I put my hand on the doorknob on the outside, and it was Not hot, but it was warm.

How could the doorknob be warm?

I thought to myself, and the reptilian part of my brain something said, hey, go easy opening this door.

You're getting a message.

But I couldn't imagine what it could have meant.

I opened the door, Nathan, and

all of the paint was hanging off of the wall like a giant sunburned back that had been peeling.

There was must.

There was fog and steam in the air.

Everything looked soaked, but there was no water on the ground.

It was inconceivable.

But what I had done in the shower, apparently, these knobs, these faucets were threaded backwards.

Yes.

So rather than the direction you would think would be off, I turned the cold water off, but the hot water stayed on, even though it wasn't coming out.

So when the water in the building was reactivated for approximately one week,

Burning hot magma came out of my shower head.

Because New York water is hot.

It's lava hot.

Yeah.

It's

so that everybody can share, that everybody has enough hot water.

They had to.

Not that week.

Not that week.

Was it still hot when you turned it off?

The people in the building had been complaining all week that their water wasn't getting hot.

And then it wasn't even getting warm.

Oh, man.

Because it had all emptied.

Earlier that day, it was all the hot water was gone.

And all of the steam from all of that incredible hot water had filled my apartment and when you called sorry not your apartment this person owned it was your sublime rust and his dad I forgot his name but I mean that was a rough call I gotta believe it

because it was destroyed it was destroyed what did you see when you walked in I saw piles of what looked like delicate porcelain lined with fine layers of color.

So I assumed if anybody's been to a New York apartment, they see that, you know, every time someone else moves in, they just roll over everything with a thick white.

The windows are glued shut, the light switches, you have to break the seal to get them working again.

So everybody knows no one's taking off the outlet covers to paint.

They're just painting right over everything.

They're in a rush.

And

all of those layers, and I'd probably thinking about it now, probably down to back when they used to use lead paint.

Probably came off in there, some real toxic steamed lead for your pink lungs.

This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks.

Look, as the producer of this show, I make decisions every day, from which guest to have on next to when I should start looking for a new producing job.

I got a lot to decide, but on prize picks, deciding right can get me paid.

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Well, if you're looking at, you know, like for a little useful, helpful takeaway from this story, steam is a real, I tell you, man, it's very effective, the steam is.

I would say, though, you probably got yourself an extra

seven square feet in that apartment.

I had more headroom than

I recall, that's for sure.

And while standing there talking to you, I would watch pieces fall behind you and shatter on the floor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, God.

And you've got to side and catch your broom,

pushing it into the closest piles.

Big piles.

I mean, like, I talk about foreshadowing for dirty jobs.

Little did I know that that would be repeated many, many, many times with a full camera crew.

Moments like that.

It's demoralizing.

Obviously, it wasn't my property, so it could have been worse.

But when you think about coming home into a place that's been damaged by floods, or like in my world where sewage backups have resulted in these fecal fountains of filth in people's homes, and they're literally knee-deep in your neighbor's scat.

Like, some cleanup jobs are just so overwhelming.

I actually, I wasn't crying in sadness, but I was weeping as those chunks fell and shattered, because each one just

was just a reminder that

I had made a terrible mistake.

And

I was really not going to pay a price for it.

I just had to explain to these people, you know, because there's no renter's insurance.

How can you be mad, though?

How can you be mad?

That story is worth its weight in gold.

You know what?

I should write it down, I suppose.

But I'll tell you what we did later that night.

You were nice.

You kind of helped me clean up a bit.

And then you were like, you know what?

We should go over to Harry's, get a drink.

I miss that about New York having, like, walking home from work and you know, someone calls from the other side of the street, hey, I'm going to a movie at six.

Want to go?

I got an extra ticket.

Yeah, okay, I'll meet you there.

And the movie's theater is just one block over.

And then you're walking past this place to go get your laundry, and someone knocks on the window from inside a restaurant, and they go, Come on.

And you stop in, you have a bite.

Meeting your neighbors and being cool about it.

I miss

the forthwithness

of New Yorkers, of the East Coast.

I miss that.

Do you think that's brought about by proximity?

Yes, I do.

The isolation of Los Angeles, people aren't dealing with people, people are dealing with cars all the time.

It's just, I believe that full on.

You are upfront with people all the time.

Just a couple years ago, I was in New York, and my GPS was not, it was spinning.

I don't know what was going on.

I'm just looking at going, this is not.

I'm looking at the street.

I'm going, I don't even need.

This guy comes next to me.

He goes, what are you looking for?

What is this place here?

I can't even tell.

He goes, Oh, you're on the wrong street.

You need to go one more over and then down that way.

That's the way.

He's just tired of me being lost.

Yeah, exactly.

That's the difference between New York and LA in so many ways.

The kindness that happens in New York is often delivered with a brusqueness and almost an exasperation.

It's like they're really not doing it for you.

They're being kind just because we just got to get you out out of the slit.

I can't watch this anymore, man.

I can't watch this anymore.

Exactly.

I love that.

I got one for you.

Go.

It's winter.

Okay.

We'd had a lot of snow, and you go a little stir crazy in New York with the snow because, like you were saying,

little did we know what the lockdowns would eventually bring, but to be locked down because of the snow for a couple days, it's kind of fun, but it's kind of weird.

And you and I wound up going out one evening.

There was a lot of snow on the ground and the streets had been plowed.

And you said, I know a guy.

I want to take a ride.

And I know a guy.

And I'm like, I have no idea where this is going.

You were dating a girl at the time.

I forget her name, but I walked down to 2468.

She was there and you were there.

And we were sitting around.

You had a fireplace.

that you kept filled with candles.

That's right.

Like

dozens of candles.

Yeah, big big, thick, white ones.

Yeah.

And we were sitting around just enjoying the snow and relaxing.

And you made this phone call, and this guy shows up in this car.

It's like a Dusenberg or something, like a 1945,

like Dick Tracy car.

And on the roof of this car, is a martini glass about five feet tall.

And the martini glass glass is being, it's made of neon.

Yeah.

And it's being fed by some battery inside the car.

So it's like purple and red.

And also in neon on the car was the name of the bar he owned.

I'm trying to remember the name of the bar, but that was a this, he had a party, he was always parking at the thing up front, and it was a beautiful sign.

It was called the High Life.

Thank you.

The High Life.

And you were like, let's take a ride in the High life car.

I'm like, what are you even talking about?

And it's snowing, and there might have been some frosty beverages and whatnot involved.

And we were in such a fun, happy place.

And now I'm in the back of this car with you and this girl.

And we're driving through the snow.

in Manhattan and everybody we passed was just looking at us because you can imagine the streets were nearly empty too because people didn't want to drive all that stuff right but people were walking because people want to be out So I'm in the back of this car with these two people with the words high life and neon and the snow's coming down.

And I could see the people looking at us.

I could see the envy on their faces.

They didn't quite know who we were or where we were going.

But there was a party in that car.

We were clearly having a ball.

You were living the high life.

And later that night, Chuck, again, there's blank spaces, but we wound up behind the tavern on the green.

Those incredible lights in the trees.

And we were lying on our backs, and I swear to God, we were making snow angels.

Now, I'm like, I'm 38 at this point, which means you're probably 29.

23 or 24.

Yeah, whatever.

I was younger.

I must be nine years.

I'm 62.

53.

There you go.

There you go.

I got nine years on you.

There you go.

So I'm lying here with this dude, just Joey Buchanan, soap star, with this girl who's just a kick.

I don't remember.

I don't even know if you remember who I'm talking about.

I think I remember exactly who you don't know.

I don't want to get too detailed, but.

Her name was Heidi.

Yeah.

She was hilarious.

Do you remember a mason jar?

Yeah.

Her father was a mycologist.

Yes.

Please explain to the folks what a mycologist does.

He's a doctor in the study of mushrooms, and he would send her what he called an earth ball, and she would roll it out in her closet and water it in a little Tupperware dish, and then she'd come and pluck out the mushrooms that came out of it later and dehydrate them, and that would fill your evening.

It was lovely times.

What a time.

You got to unpack that a little bit more.

Well, I mean, I don't want to spell it out, but you know, I mean, the miracle of psilocybin is a thing that's been experienced by people.

And her dad sent her this?

Yes.

Her dad, I believe, the way she told it to me was he was, I think she might have used the words pioneer in the field.

Yes.

She said, you know, if there was a problem, a real problem, someone, you know, a police officer wanted to harass you about those things, that you could get off because they're not illegal because they don't, there's no such thing as them.

Right.

He had invented his own strain that it's not

listed as any illegal substance.

It's kind of like that Bright Lights Big City.

Did you ever read that?

Jay McEarnini, it's a famous book takes place

in New York.

What's interesting about it is he wrote it in the second person.

Very unusual.

Not first person.

I did this.

I went in.

Not third person.

He went in.

She saw him.

But you.

You wake up, you look around.

You're not exactly sure what happened the night before, but the doorknob was warm, and what used to be an apartment now looks like the DMZ.

You shake your head and you say to yourself, what the hell were you thinking, Mike?

All you had to do was turn off, right?

So it's that.

Everything is set like that.

That evening, I was thinking of Jay and that book as we were making snow angels behind the tavern on the green with this girl, Heidi, and all of this completely legal substance that was somehow making the snow and the high life all the more interesting.

And like my internal monologue is going, you were minding your own business.

You got a phone call.

Your buddy says he knew a guy with a car and a girl with a mason char

you say all right let's take a ride and now you're making snow angels behind the tavern on the green and so it's like i'm just so interested in in the way our memories work

you know the blank spots and the specificity of certain other spots and i think sometimes the real benefit of staying friends with somebody for 45 years is that they can help you fill in the blank spaces and reconnecting with somebody that I haven't seen in over two decades.

It's the same thing.

You get another brick in your wall, you get another tile in your mosaic, and

suddenly the doors open.

It's a beautiful thing, man.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, not to be maudlin about it.

I realize this is awfully inside for maybe the average listener,

but I do think what we're talking about right now is so much

more relatable in the human condition than you know the problems with the first AD or the problems like like our careers whatever in the end

everybody's just trying to make sense of one of those evenings 25 years ago that for some reason is looming large

does this happen to you much

You know, what happens to me a lot is

I'm made to realize, I'll say forced to realize how much I've forgotten over the years.

But it just takes one

mention, a thought, passing by a building, wait a minute, and a door opens up in your brain that you haven't accessed in how long?

Are those pieces of my brain, are they still getting blood flow?

I mean, they're just waiting there.

It's all there.

They're waiting.

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

Waiting, like waiting waiting to be called on.

Like a room full of people.

They all have questions.

Nobody wants to be rude.

But I sure wish you'd call on me.

I wish you'd jog.

I wish somebody would say something to jog that part.

Those are gifts, man, to be reminded of a thing that made you laugh so hard once upon a time.

Has this ever happened to you?

Go.

Have you.

Like in the same way it's delightful to be reminded of a thing

you didn't didn't remember at all.

Have you ever seen yourself on the screen, whether it's a computer screen or a TV, doing a scene, doing a thing that you had no real recollection of doing, and yet you couldn't deny it because, well, there you are?

Yeah, certainly, certainly.

For the most part, I remember I'll see something and it does that thing.

It opens the doors.

Oh, wait, yes,

that was when we were at the far end of the street and then things start filling in.

I can't remember if it was this day or that day.

I do remember this.

I remember this much for sure.

I just saw something online

from

Desperate Housewives that I hadn't seen in a very, very long time.

And I just went down memory lane.

Oh, yeah, Dana DeLeish.

Oh, my God, I miss her.

I owe her a call.

I got to call her.

I haven't talked to her in a a long time.

And I remember where we were.

Oh, that was the time.

Here's a quick story for you.

I'm doing Desperate Housewives.

I'm having a great time.

They're very lovely.

A friend of mine visits from high school.

He comes to set.

And one of the Transpo guys says, hey, do you want me to drive you guys up to Wisteria Lane?

It's part of their whole

situation they have up there, Universal Studios.

They have a neighborhood that you can go and use.

I said, that'd be fantastic.

So we went up to Wisteria Lane.

We're standing in front of one of the houses on the street at the end.

And lo and behold, here comes one of the Universal Tram tours coming by.

And I hear the fellow on the announcement.

Ladies and gentlemen, if I'm not mistaken, we just drove past one of the more recent cast members of Desperate Housewives, and I'm going, this is great.

And right in front of my buddy, one of the more recent members of Desperate Housewives, Nathan Lane.

And my friend and I are just standing on the curb, just watching them go into the sunset.

They're just kind of taking off.

they're heading west now and they're driving away after we'd heard that and he goes

so how'd that feel

oh man

phil uh what's name phil keegan uh kogan i never get his last name right it's keegan

he pronounces it keegan

host of the amazing race okay he was on uh

a year or so ago and he would have said what you got right there is the classic tall poppy syndrome.

And in New Zealand, it's like they don't like anybody.

Everybody's rooting for each other, but the minute you just get a little too far ahead,

right, the tall poppy gets cut down.

They like their poppies all nice and even, and they like their people the same way.

So, too much success, too much fame, those guys will cut you like a knife.

And so, you know, that's what friends are for.

That's what old high school buddies do.

All he had to say was, how did that feel?

Because he knew the answer.

And he knew it.

He didn't even laugh.

He didn't just explode with laughter, you know, pointing at me and enjoying my...

Is it hubris?

Am I using that word correctly?

My humiliation.

Yeah, yes, yeah.

Just to humiliate.

You went from hubris to humiliation.

You were feeling a little puffy.

Oh, isn't that funny?

Look at these nice people.

Got themselves a celebrity sighting.

I love that deflation.

Oh, God.

I kind of made a career out of it.

This episode is brought to you by PrizePicks.

Look, as the producer of this show, I make decisions every day, from which guest to have on next to when I should start looking for a new producing job.

I got a lot to decide.

But on PrizePicks, deciding right can get me paid.

So I'm telling you, don't miss any of the excitement this football season on prize picks where it is good to be right.

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You just pick more or less on at least two player stats.

If you get your picks right, you win.

And Prize Picks is the only app that offers stacks, meaning you can pick the same player up to three times in the same lineup.

You want to pick more on Josh Allen's pass yards, rush yards, and touchdowns?

No problem.

You can pick all three of them in the same lineup.

You can only do that on Prize Picks.

You can also follow other PrizePicks players directly on the app and copy their lineups in one click.

Now, whether it's a celebrity partner or your best friend or just someone whose picks you like, you just hit the follow button and check out every lineup they create in the new feed tab on PrizePicks.

Look, if you want to get started today, just download the app and use code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

That's code Mike to get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first five buck lineup.

Prize picks, it's good to be right, so keep your eye on the prize.

Keep your eyes on the prize at prizepicks.com/slash mic.

I never enjoy it when characters look extremely cool because it's not something I can relate to.

So anytime I'm doing something on TV where my character looks really, really cool, I'll do a little something that kicks them in the nuts.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I don't know that I had the presence of mind to really understand that intuitively, but I learned it soon enough on Dirty Jobs, and it was a great gift for me.

Whatever arrogance or hubris or whatever good thing you might be thinking about your performance, yourself, your standing, when you're in a sewer, when you're covered with other people's crap, when you realize that the show that you pitched and sold actually hinges on your willingness to take the pie in the face, your willingness to be the apprentice, the dilettante, the second banana.

Once you're okay with that, it's about the most freeing thing that can happen

in the nonfiction world when you're in front of a camera because all the expectations of expertise drain out of it.

The viewer no longer is looking for me to be correct, they're looking to me to try.

And I can do that, I can try all day long.

So,

yeah, man, managing expectations, both your own and the people around you.

That's a sneak trick.

I saw you crawl into some spaces that would have

sent me into a panic, a very real panic.

I saw you climbing heights that would have paralyzed me with fear.

I would still be there now, gripping my safety line.

the guy next to me.

You made me very nervous once, flicking around as I was.

I flick too, and I stop at Groundhog's Day, and we'll get back to Shawshank in a minute.

But the Emmys were on.

And I tuned in just in time to see your pal, Neil Patrick Harris, absolutely crushed the open.

Boy, he was good.

He's extremely talented.

He's always good, but that, like,

stuff lined up for him on that.

And then he introduced you, and you came out with Sarah Silverman,

and you're doing a song and dance number.

And now, you and I had hung out enough.

I knew you could carry a tune, and I knew you were a fan of, you know, I knew you'd done plenty of shows and stuff, but I didn't really know if you could sing.

I didn't really know, you know, and you're in a

tuxedo, and you're coming out there.

And I'm like, oh, man, this is live.

He's going for it.

My friend Nathan's going for it.

My sphincter tightened up for you.

Thanks for that.

Because I've I've been around that.

That's really live.

That's a thing.

Were you nervous?

Do you even get nervous?

Oh, heck yeah, I get nervous.

Yes, I get nervous.

I get the flop sweats.

Yeah.

It was super simple.

I sang a line, maybe two.

All the dancers around us make it look like you're dancing.

Yeah.

They're doing all the heavy lifting.

I came up with a bit to just breathe really heavy at the end like we've been dancing, but really we weren't because all the dancers,

every rehearsal, they'd be finished.

Right.

I would do that too.

So no one thinks I'm getting away with something.

You hyperventilate them.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Looks like he pours your heart and soul into it.

But really, they took really good care of us up there.

Yeah.

There was no big deal there.

That was a lot of fun.

That was a lot of fun.

I bet.

It gets a little, it's exciting, I think.

That part was exciting.

I didn't think about it too much.

I went to something recently

where I had to make a speech in front of a bunch of people.

And as I was watching everybody come in, I think, oh my God, these are, some of these people are big deals in the industry that I've chose to try to make a living in.

And I started getting a little nervous, and I had to follow Will Farrell.

I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Who asked me to do this?

Who do I know?

I got nervous.

I got nervous.

I practiced.

I was confident in what I was doing.

I think I did a good job.

But yeah, I got super tense.

I got super tense.

Sometimes you get those shelves into those situations where you think, have I bitten off more than I can chew here?

Do you use it?

Like, how do you deal when you get that feeling?

My secret is

I don't have a way to stop being nervous, but I do have a way to act like I'm not.

A hack.

Yeah, yes.

It started with auditioning.

Yes.

Auditions are so awkward and awful.

The worst.

This whole process is just a screw of the brain and mind.

And the further along it goes, hey, we're going to call you back and call you back.

The stakes keep getting higher and higher.

And I finally found the hack of I'm playing the character of Nathan Fillion professional actor.

And it starts in the parking lot.

And how I walk in and how I sign in and how I comport myself.

And this is a guy who can look you in the eye.

This is a guy that doesn't laugh at your joke if it's not funny.

I'm not thrown.

I am rock steady.

And if you hire me, this is what you get.

Someone who's rock steady, who's not dying to be your friend.

I've just, I'm here for the audition.

Can we talk about soaps?

Yeah, please.

Yes, please.

This occurred to me.

Also, I think I was, you popped up randomly.

Oh, when this would have been, it was the Dr.

Horrible thing.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Dr.

Horrible.

Did you ever see this?

Dr.

Horrible is like a musical blog.

Something they did just like for grins.

It was born of the strike in 2009, 2008, 2009.

There was that big old strike, and a lot of writers wanted to say, we don't need producers.

We can make our own stuff.

So there was a strike TV.net and a lot of guys started putting their own stuff up.

I did a project with James Gunn called PG Porn.

PG Porn.

Pornography for people who like everything about porn except the sex.

Wow, that's good.

So you like a pizza delivery guy?

I was a construction worker.

Yes.

Yes, but at the point where the sex should start, something else happens and it just takes a left turn.

That's great.

It was very entertaining.

It was a bunch of them, different themes.

It was really fun.

And then Joss said, This is something I wanted to do.

And with my brother,

both my brothers, my family, and everybody that he knows, it was literally

that thing was like, let's put on a play.

All right, we got some costumes,

clothes we could use, and we could use my uncle's barn as a stage.

Yep.

It was that.

We were literally walking down the street filming something, and we had lost the light of the day.

And two people held up iPhones with the lights on the back,

and roll.

Good enough.

And it's all we needed.

And off we go.

And that was some guerrilla filmmaking.

It was a lot of fun.

Well, that's what pulled me in because back to that business of amusing yourself, first and foremost.

That just felt

really

modest, but intentional at the same time.

And, you know, you mentioned the writer's strike.

There was a...

There was one in, I guess it was 2003 or 2004,

which got dirty jobs on the air, honestly.

I mean, it was that whole time, people became so

all of a sudden we need content.

And people looked at nonfiction differently, and the standards kind of,

maybe, you know, I was able to sneak on the air with stuff like that.

I mentioned in passing, because as I was watching you sing in this thing, who was the girl, by the way?

The sweet voice she had.

Oh, on Dr.

Horrible?

Yeah.

Felicia Day.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's this great moment where he plays,

was it the Hammer?

Captain Hammer.

Captain Hammer.

Corporate tool.

You got to give me the, because this isn't the hammer.

Yeah, but I'm going to be giving her the hammer all night long.

And these are not the hammer.

And then he walks out of the shot and then walks back in and says, the penis is the hammer.

And then walks out again.

And that's when I was like, oh, Nathan, you got me.

That's so good.

And then

I think in that moment, for whatever reason, I was thinking about the Joey Buchanan days and the soap opera days, which made me think about my own QVC days.

Right?

And so the question I'm getting at is,

I didn't talk about, I was fired three times from QVC.

Just fively.

It just didn't take.

It just didn't take.

Who hires you back after you've been fired?

Well, Joan Rivers for starters.

Wow,

yeah, so many great stories in those days.

But when I was done, I wasn't ashamed of what I had done, but nor was I proud.

I had spent three years in the middle of the night talking extemporaneously about items that I hadn't bothered to prepare for, right?

And so

whatever.

When I left that job, though, I knew how to audition.

I had my hacks all worked out.

My toolbox was completely situated to allow me to do what I wanted to do, which at the time was just freelance.

And then years later, to my earlier question, I saw myself on YouTube in the middle of the night selling the Amcor negative ion generator with absolutely no memory of that happening, and yet completely aware that it did because I'm looking at myself.

And that got me going down a road of thinking, you know, I made a lot of fun of that job, but I actually think I learned every useful thing I needed to know about this industry in the middle of the night, trying to stay awake with these nameless products, which led me to wonder what you learned as Joey Buchanan in the soaps.

Everything I use every day, I learned in the soaps.

Really?

Everything.

Everything.

I was with people who had been in the business for 15, 25, 40 years.

And God bless them.

They were all willing to teach me anything I asked, anything I wanted to know.

They were willing to share their wisdom.

There was a kid came to our show from

another soap.

They were interweaving soap operas to make these fictional cities actually exist and try to lend validity to the universe.

And so we're doing all these crossover episodes, and this fella came to our show, and we were going out for lunch to Harry's burritos.

I invited him along.

On the way back, he'd been very quiet the whole day.

And on the way back, he said, you guys are all actually friends.

Yeah, of course you're friends.

You don't have friends on your show?

He goes, no.

No.

I hide in my dressing room.

If you get too much attention, someone will get you fired.

It's not

tall poppy.

How horrifying.

How horrifying.

And it made me so much more grateful for the conditions that I was learning in.

I'm still friends with all those people.

The fellow that played my uncle, two stories.

The fellow that played my uncle, one of my first scenes with him, I'm just standing across from him talking, and he reaches out with his leg

and just pushes me to the side.

I move over, and he goes, and we keep going.

We don't stop in the scene.

I was in his light.

You were in his light.

I didn't hit my mark.

Technically, that show taught me to be technically proficient.

I can sneak across a darkened sheriff's office where there's zombies around somewhere and I need something and then turn and have

my eyes perfectly lit just with one slat of light because that's where it needs to be because I heard something happen.

Oh no, it's nothing.

Okay, keep going.

Slither, as I recall.

That was Slither.

That's exactly right.

And the DP, who's like, you know, he's very concerned about that light hitting my eyes.

He said to me,

You are technically perfect every time.

You can do every time.

I said, Thanks, soaps offers.

That's what soaps did for me.

And then that same man

pulled me aside two years into my three-year contract, and he said, You, it's time they're going to ask you, Are you going to stay or are you going to leave?

And you're going to tell them you're going to leave, and this is what they're going to say, and then this is what you're going to say.

And then they're going to say this to make it more.

And you'll say, Can I get that right?

And they'll say, We'll try our best.

That means it's not going to happen.

So he said, Listen, it's the golden handcuffs of entertainment.

They are gold, but they are handcuffs.

And the longer you stay, the harder it will be to get out.

So wrap it up.

Go to LA.

If it doesn't work, pick up the phone and say, I want to come back.

And they'll fire who's ever in your place.

Don't worry about that guy.

We don't love that guy.

We love you.

No one's going to say, ooh, you left and tried.

Everybody's going to welcome you back.

There's no risk.

All right.

Okay, wait, wait, wait.

Who was that guy?

Bob Woods.

Bob Woods deserves credit.

I love that story.

I tell it to him every time I see him.

Well, now we're telling it to the world because, you know, I always wind up at some point in the conversation coming back to one of those moments where you probably appreciated the significance of it then, but how could you completely understand the wisdom of it until later?

You had to leave a sure thing.

Mm-hmm.

As you so gently reminded me in Harry's with a mouth full of the Supremo.

Kind of a big deal now, Mike.

You were a big deal.

You were Joey Buchanan.

Listen, from where I'm from, people don't just take off and go do soap operas.

You know, it's not.

So when somebody asks you, hey, when did you know that

you made it?

And my answer is all the time.

Like the last time I made it was just a few months ago.

Like every time I get a job, I go, oh my God, I made it.

Hey, Mike Rowe just called you to be on his podcast.

Oh my God.

Oh my God, finally.

I finally made it.

There'll be no money.

I'm putting that right into the.

Try it again at this camera.

This time.

Taylor, is he in the light?

Do we have him good?

Okay.

He's always in the light.

He knows how to find the light.

Oh, man.

Okay, so Bob Wood.

Bob Woods.

Woods.

Also, Bobo.

People called him Bobo.

How nervous were you when

about, yeah, coming here to Sodom or Gomorrah or whichever one were?

You know, things started to roll for me

two days before I left New York.

I got a job here in L.A.

I came out.

I came out a month or two prior to visit friends.

My agency had an office on East Coast.

And they said, we're going to put you on some auditions while you're out there.

I went to an audition.

It was a nightmare.

It was awful.

It's one of my most horrific audition stories.

And they didn't want me.

I came back to New York.

I got an audition.

It's for the same project.

I said, I just auditioned for this.

They didn't want me.

They said, oh, this is totally different casing.

Just go in.

All right.

I didn't prepare because I'd already prepared.

I knew the scene.

I knew exactly what I was going to do.

They were laughing throughout.

I got the job.

So instead of my plan of loading up a truck and driving across country, a friend of mine packed all my stuff in a truck for me and sent it.

I had to fly in and do a pilot.

I was already working.

What was it for?

It was called 708.

We were being groomed to follow a very popular program called Friends.

We were going to be the 8:30 show behind the 8 o'clock Friends.

Wow.

And it was a sure thing, Mike.

Sure, sure.

You got it.

You guys are in.

It's gone.

It's gone.

It's been, no, it's not going to go any further.

That's, it was horrifying.

A good lesson.

Yeah.

And then right after that, a casting director I met in New York.

I auditioned for

a movie of the week, I want to say, Rich Kids vs.

Poor Kids Sailing.

Yeah.

Check that box.

And

the casting director said, you know what, I'm going to have you come back and audition for something else.

And it was for an ABC cop drama in Los Angeles.

And they wanted me for the role, and ABC Daytime wouldn't let me go to go to ABC Primetime.

And I felt a little bitter about that, but the director, casting director, said, call me when you get to LA.

And I called her up, and she put me in Saving Private Ryan.

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And this is the other moment.

I was here in LA,

and when I saw you crying up on the screen, I cried too.

I swear to God, I was sitting there with Howard Balaband's friend, a guy named Richie, and I was like,

I'm glad we started this conversation where we did, because it's just one long, I told you so.

I told you you were going to make it.

You did tell me that.

And really, selfishly, it's just a delight to be proven correct in so many different ways.

From Dr.

Horrible singing to, you know, the rookie, by the way, John Nolan, it's terrific.

Castle, Jesus, what a run.

What a run.

The big screen, the small screen, the singing.

You're still in on the joke.

You're still bringing gifts to people.

Sorry, tell me about private rhyme.

People should understand

the reality of that.

I know the story because you and I spoke after it, but flying over there, Spielberg.

I was nervous.

I bet you were.

Yeah, that was before I found my feet.

I didn't know what I was doing.

I had no idea.

What was the scene?

This is the scene where everybody, somebody just asked me yesterday, you were in Saving Private Ryan?

What part were you?

And I tell them, they go, oh, yeah.

It's I was the wrong Ryan.

Minnesota.

I was Minnesota Ryan.

Yeah.

I was

James Frederick Ryan.

No, James Francis Francis Ryan.

They were looking for Francis and I was Frederick, or they were looking for Frederick and I was Francis.

Either way, you were not the droid they were looking for.

This was not the guy.

But

all I had to do was come in and cry.

And on the soap opera, they called me Joey the Town Crier because I could cry in the drop of a hat.

And here I was in London, and here it is.

It's actually important.

And I was dry as a popcorn fart.

I could not summon a glazed eye, never mind a tear trickling down my cheek.

And I was just so nervous, so nervous.

And, you know, there's the incomparable Tom Hanks, there's the

wonderful Ted Danson that I was raised on cheers.

Sure.

Raised on cheers.

I was tense.

And Steven Spielberg took me aside before he did some wide-shot stuff.

And I was not happy with my performance.

And he goes, oh, listen.

There's five of us in that video booth.

We all bought it.

But what I hear you saying is wherever it is here, it's not coming out to here.

Tell me about your homework.

Tell me about when you hear this, what is your character going through?

What does he think?

And I tell him my whole big spiel that I came up with.

He goes, that's great.

Instead of eight and ten, what if they were four and six?

And when you see them and you imagine that, those two bodies, when you see, turn that camera around in your mind.

Who is seeing them?

Is it your mother?

Who discovers them?

Who tells your mom?

It should have been you.

And when you're going home, who are you going home to?

She's already dead.

You know that.

She's already inside.

And I was, that was, I I was so emotional.

That whole thing that he gave me, just, he looked at me and said, you look ready.

How do you feel?

Somebody say action.

I feel ready.

He goes, all right, let's start the rain.

Let's put this on a 35 and this is and rolling and everybody.

And that's how loud he was too.

He didn't talk very loud.

Amazing.

Cut twos.

I'm filming Firefly on the Fox lot.

And I was in the market for a new automobile.

Not in Canada.

No, no.

I was in the market for a new automobile and I was walking in costume from our set to our production office and there was a SUV there and I said, oh, that's a beautiful.

I was kind of thinking about an SUV.

I wonder what kind of SUV that is.

And I look and someone is inside waving me over.

Oh, and I kind of come over.

And it's Steven Spielberg.

And he goes, hey, remember me?

Oh, man.

Yes, yes, sir, I do.

I do remember.

Wow.

What are you doing?

And I told him what we were up to.

And then I think two weeks later, the production office was a buzz with Steven Spielberg is watching our show, did you know?

Well, you're welcome.

If you had to do it again

and you walked over to him in an alternative universe, can you imagine a better moment than him saying,

Nathan Lane, right?

How'd that feel?

How'd that feel?

Oh, man.

So

I guess there's really nothing else to ask you.

I don't want to ask you the shit people ask every freaking day.

What about fans?

How do you think about

this Comic-Con thing?

This is a world.

Yes.

And I don't know how many of our listeners, we've got a pretty big audience, but I don't know how many of them go to Comic-Con.

But I went to one, and it was was like, holy crap, there's a whole other world, and it's not a small world.

And these people are engaged, and you at Comic-Con are the last piece of chicken at a country ranch cookout.

You are.

You paint a picture.

There are lines, there are mosh pits, they weep, they clutch.

So, how do you think of your fans?

And are those the fans you think of?

That's the bread and butter.

If no one is watching and no one is and engaged is a fantastic word because they are engaged.

Do you think about things that you were a fan of when you were young and what was your access?

A folded poster from a teen beat magazine of some kind?

I mean, they didn't have Lego sets based on your favorite T V show.

They didn't have T-shirts or things that you could customize and print yourself.

Fandom now has access in a way that they never have before.

And

every time I go to one of those things, every hand I shake,

every photo I take with someone, that's someone who will go and buy a ticket to see the movie I come out in next.

It's a guarantee.

They're not going to stop being a fan at that point.

At that point, they're more locked in than ever.

They're already a fan.

All you have to do is not blow it.

Just

with gratitude.

Just with gratitude.

Yeah, you work for them.

Essentially, right?

I mean, I'm having a great time.

When I first started acting, I really thought the immediacy, because I was doing theater.

There's no lot of television and film going on in my hometown, but it's a great theater community, lots of support for theater.

This was Edmonton?

Edmonton, Alberta.

We have the second largest fringe festival in the world next to Edinburgh.

Thank you very much.

No kidding.

Yeah, yeah.

Big theater.

What did I see?

You were on stage.

You were very young.

It looked like a college production.

There was a sword.

Oh, Jesus.

You saw that?

I don't know what I saw, but I like it.

Look, man, I joked with you before we started rolling.

You are the gum I stepped in 25 years ago.

It's just like, Matt, there he is again.

And it's such a kick to be here with you in the flesh, but it was another one of those moments.

I saw you in a sword fight in a college production of something.

Zestrazzi.

Right.

You saw that?

How did you possibly?

Man, I'm deep well, dude.

I feel like I don't think I've seen that.

You should look at it.

Zestrazi, yeah.

So it was a fellow I know who,

in an odd turn of events, voices Rocket Raccoon for the animated Guardians of the Galaxy.

Now, I saw his name up in the credits some time ago, so I'm really happy he's doing well.

He was in a director's program, and he needed to put on a little show.

It had to be a certain amount of time.

He said, I want to do something a little bigger, and it was a bigger amount of time.

There was only one show, and it was about the greatest swordsman in the world whom I played.

And we wanted this sword fight to be great.

We wanted it to be great.

I love this story.

And we had a plan.

If, listen, if all fails and something goes terribly wrong,

we will move to this point of the fight, kind of the last third of it.

Let's just go to that bit.

And

right off the top of this fight,

we're

kicking around and we're doing great.

Listen, I'm proud of that work we did.

We were really on top of it.

Me and this other fellow, we practiced like crazy.

And like 10 or 11 smacks of that fencing blade

tank, mine broke off

four inches from the hilt and the blade hits the ground and it goes sliding over and hits the feet of the people in the front row who will look at it and then look up at me.

And I go,

look at him,

look at my sword.

I said,

don't move.

Ran off stage.

Give me a sword.

Someone else grabs their sword and hands it on.

I crummy out back and I got back.

And I land and I go, okay.

The The crowd is laughing their ass off,

and we're just kind of connected for this moment, just waiting for this laugh to die down.

I take the moment to kind of just test the sword, make sure it's going to, all right, this is good, it's going to work out.

But I'm looking at him saying, please, God, don't go to the end.

We've worked so hard on this whole sword fight.

Let's just pick up from where we left off.

And he got it somehow.

He understood.

And we did our whole sword fight.

I was very proud.

We went to the end.

And I remember Trevor at the end was pretty thrilled that it worked out.

So

I was racking my brain to try and better describe what I meant an hour and 20 minutes ago when I told the audience that you were always in on the joke.

And that's what I meant.

It's one thing to be technically perfect.

It's one thing to memorize your lines and hit your mark and execute a well-choreographed scene and always know where the light is.

It's great.

But when it shits the bed and everybody's looking,

in that moment, we really learn everything we need to know about the human condition, the state of theater in modern times, and everybody around us too.

It's bang, just like that.

It's hic suntra cones, right?

Here be dragons.

This was not in the brochure.

To handle it that way in that moment is why everybody loves you.

I think it's a reason.

You relieved the audience.

They were worried for you.

They were worried for the other guy.

They were worried.

This is all just so awkward.

And you not only relieve them, you gave them something that they'll remember.

How many people are going to remember a sword fight from a college production?

But they'll remember that.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

I got a question for you.

You are extremely successful.

Your television programs, your books, your podcasts, here we are.

Busy texting.

I got Taylor.

Yeah.

No, he just takes notes.

Trying to give him some credit, but doesn't it?

He's like that.

He doesn't need it.

He's solid.

With that hair?

No.

You don't need to know those hands.

Yeah.

He's actually ordering the Hoover Air X1 right now, I'm sure.

When did you know?

How did you know?

I've made it.

Like, I'm a success.

You or me?

You.

Oh.

Ah.

When did you say, I've got this?

Well,

the second time they hired you for PBC.

The second time they've hired me back.

I guess maybe I knew that something was up.

You'll laugh at this, or maybe you'll have something real similar, but there were some awards and things, and I saw a lot of shows spin out of dirty jobs directly.

And I thought, well, that's interesting.

And I saw a lot of the cable landscape change because of that show.

I knew I was onto something when when the fan mail,

it wasn't about, oh, you're funny, or, oh, I love that show.

It was,

way do you see what my dad does?

My mom, my brother, my cousin, way do you see what they do for a living?

That made me feel really good.

It's a different kind of fan mail than you got at QVC.

It's a different kind of fan mail, I'm sure, than you got from the soaps.

You know, when you do something, you play a cop.

How many cops have you heard from saying, thank you, thank you for doing something for our profession, thank you for making us human, right?

That kind of feedback matters.

And the one that got me, two things got me.

One was some photographs a mom sent me of her little boy dressed as me for Halloween.

Dressed like a construction worker.

He had multiple outfits, you know, he was like a sanitation worker, like all these trades.

You know, he was trick-or-treating as me.

He had a little mask on, little respirator, right?

And I was like, that's amazing.

And that same week, I was

shaking hands at,

I was in Woodstock,

Georgia at Lowe's.

And I was doing some deal with Whirlpool.

Whirlpool, I don't know, I made some commercial deal, and Barski was in a dunk tank, and people were lined up.

You know, they heard I was there, and a lot of dirty jobs fans came out.

And then word got around, and then the line went like half a mile.

And I was supposed to be out of there, but I don't have a lot of rules.

But one is, if you're in line, I wait.

You know, we might stop the line at some point, but there was nothing to be done.

The whole town came out, and the line was long, and I ran out of headshots.

And so people started going into the lows and buying plungers and toilet seats.

And I would autograph toilet rims and like all the pieces of the toilet, all the plumbing supplies were bought.

I'm autographing plungers.

That was a minute, right?

But then there was a little kid, like the kid with the pictures, who came up to just ask me all the, how does that work and were you scared on the bridge and so forth.

And behind him was his granddad.

who flew bombers in the Second World War and was about 99.

And

he wanted to tell me some stories about the war and how much he enjoyed the show and how much he and his grandson enjoyed watching it together.

That

killed me.

That killed me.

I'm signing plungers and talking across generations about a show I did for my granddad.

It was supposed to be three and done.

It wasn't supposed to be this thing.

So,

yeah, it was the fans who stood to say thanks and asked me to sign a plunger.

What is the feeling when you understand

that

the notes you are playing are resonating in people's hearts?

What does that give you?

Well, I'll answer if you promise to answer the same question.

Okay.

Because this is my podcast, for God's sakes.

By the way, why don't you have a podcast?

What are you waiting for?

We're thinking about it.

We're thinking about it.

We're making some plans right now.

Thanks for asking.

You're welcome.

If I'm not in the top top five first guests, you're going to be in there.

Don't you worry, Helen.

Don't you worry.

It's going to be me and Alan Tudik, actually.

Oh,

that's great.

Yeah.

What was your question again?

I drifted off.

The feeling you get when you understand that you are resonating, that you are connecting, that you are something you are doing is meaningful and lives in the hearts of people that you've never met.

Yeah, it's a weird mix of gratitude, humility, and actually a little bit of fear.

What's the fear part?

Well, the fear is I am a staunch skeptic of platitudes, bromides, and tropes.

I think a lot of what's happened in our country that's got people going down a bad road is that they've taken advice that wasn't meant for them, and they've heard the advice, courtesy of...

these cameras and microphones and when you have a platform, when you have an audience, you're immediately grateful for it.

But if you're living in the real world and you're talking to kids about scholarships and people about their careers and college or no college and these things, you don't really know who's listening.

It's fine if I'm sitting across from you, and it's fine if I have an understanding of who you are and know something about you.

But I think we're real long in advice in this country and very long on certainty, too.

And so our foundation is, I don't know, we've given away $12 million in work ethic scholarships.

Well done.

We've got 2,000 plus people who are prospering in the trades because they learned a skill that was in demand.

Congratulations.

Thanks.

That makes me feel great.

But I worry, I worry every day that somebody might be listening and they might take a thing I say to heart the wrong way.

I can't control that other than to constantly step back and say, look, Look, don't take it from me.

Do your homework.

Be diligent.

I find myself spending a lot of time qualifying my advice by saying,

I don't really know.

I have my story, and I've got a lot of anecdotal facts, and I got a bunch of people we have assisted, but I don't know you, not really, you know.

And so, Dorothy Parker said, advice is that

thing you need to hear, but wish you didn't.

I once distributed some advice at a Comic-Con, one of those conventions.

Someone asking, you know, how do you become an actor?

And it's like, I don't, there's no one way.

You have to want it.

How do I possibly,

I can tell you something that served me well.

Do it if it scares you.

If there's something in front of you and you're scared to do it, there's a reason you're scared, and that may be the reason it's something you need to do.

And the very next time, the following year or two, I went to the same convention and a young lady came up to me and said,

I heard what you said and I quit my job as a kindergarten teacher.

That's what I said.

That's exactly the same.

What have I done?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

But she was incredibly creative in creating prosthetic makeups and models and whatnot.

She was extremely talented.

The fancy dress, this is in England, the fancy dress costume contest.

She was Alan Tudick riding a T-Rex was her costume.

And the T-Rex was Jurassic Park quality.

It had

striations in the teeth where you could see the tartar buildup.

You could see the gums were discolored here, but the same here.

The glaze in the eyes, the scales on it.

And she looks like she pulled off Alan's face and put it over her own.

It was bizarrely amazing.

Wow.

And she's a kindergarten teacher.

Yeah.

She quit her job, and then at that point, she was doing creature creations for the Harry Potter movies.

She was making trolls and goblins for them.

She said, I've never been happier.

That's terrific.

So, thank God that worked out.

But I felt that fear of, oh my god, what have I done?

Yeah.

I mean, can you imagine Bob Woods gets a phone call a few years later from Skid Row, where Nathan is hanging out saying, Hey, man, I'm going to need that gig back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't know.

You don't know.

But fans, man.

You used the word engagement earlier.

I think that's a phenomenal phenomenal word.

I have at times

called upon fandom to help a cause, do something for getting books to kids, for getting clean water to communities that need it.

And

I am told by these charities that there are big rock and roll bands that are wildly famous the world over who can't get their fans rallied enough to help.

But mine,

when called to task,

they're into it.

They rise.

Yeah, they really are.

You are blessed, and I am too.

The fans of Dirty Jobs programmed it.

All the ideas came from them.

You know, I think it's awesome that in the end, you still know that.

I think you probably knew it intuitively from the jump.

But

what we need to do...

God, is Harry's even still there?

I don't know, but I'm sure any Mexican restaurant will suffice.

All right.

I mean, ideally, we need to do it in New York.

Ideally.

In a perfect world, it'd be snowing.

Heidi'd still be in the sketch.

We got the old high life thing.

Take a cruise to the park.

Columbus Avenue.

Yeah.

But if that doesn't happen, can we just vow to go get a meal here in L.A.

at some point?

Yes, sir.

I've always liked you.

I might even love you.

I can't wait.

to unpack this thing and see if it works.

I hope you don't choke on the jerky or the whiskey, but, you know, from me to you.

This has been a treat, Mike.

Thanks.

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