Sunscreen Demystified!

Wirecutter Show is supported by Rocket Mortgage.

Your home is an active investment, not a passive one.

And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away.

When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family.

Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property.

Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts.

Find out how at rocketmortgage.com.

Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states, nmlsconsumeraccess.org, 3030.

The banana boat face sunscreen and the banana boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Kyra?

But they will charge you extra if you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen.

They will charge you extra for that.

That's a hot to look at it.

I'm Christine Zier-Clissette.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

I'm Rosie Guerin, and you're listening to The Wirecutter Show.

This episode is called Sunscreen Demystified.

Hello, hello.

How are they?

Today's topic, sunscreen.

My favorite subject.

It is truly a wonderful topic.

I love sunscreen.

I have been patting myself on the back for the last couple of years because I've really upped my sunscreen, my facial sunscreen game.

but also my body sunscreen.

That's amazing.

Are you wearing it every day?

Mm-hmm.

Like multiple times a day?

This is private.

I

am reapplying it on my face.

I'm wearing it every day.

Yeah.

It's really important.

I'm trying to keep this youthful glow.

I mean, you're doing a great job.

Yeah.

What kind of sunscreen do you like to wear?

I actually wear the facial sunscreen from Trader Joe's that Kyra recommended to me and I love it.

I love that one.

That's right.

Cause Kyra, you are our resident facial sunscreen expert.

You've written Wire Cutter's Guide to Facial Sunscreens.

You know quite a bit.

I'm partial to Korean sunscreens.

I

love them.

They tend to be lighter.

They're very effective.

I'm a little obsessed with them.

No, I love the Korean sunscreens, but it's just that they're more expensive and harder to get.

Yeah, unfortunately.

You sometimes have to order them from Korea.

Yeah.

But you know, you guys, we're not the norm in terms of how much sunscreen we're wearing and how often we're wearing it.

Like lots of people right now are probably thinking, oh, it's getting warmer outside.

so I need to start wearing sunscreen again.

Right.

Which is not what's supposed to happen.

Like, you're supposed to wear it all year round, rain or shine.

There was a national survey done in 2023 that found that of those who participated, only 13.5% actually wear sunscreen on a daily basis.

I want to know who these people that participated were.

Were they like living under a rock or something like that?

Maybe in a really rainy climate.

But yeah, sunscreen is for all day, every day.

You know, we've done a lot of sunscreen testing here at Wirecutter.

We've tested all types of sunscreen.

We are going to have Nancy Redd, who is one of our senior health writers, and she has tested a ton of body sunscreens.

And so she's going to come on and talk with us about how you should be applying sunscreen, what you should be looking for in your sunscreens, demystifying all the terms you see on the bottles and even some of the terms you don't see on the bottles and you just kind of have to know.

And we're going to really get into it with her.

That's right.

So we're going to take a quick break.

And then when we're back, we're gonna speak with Nancy about all of the complicated things about sunscreen that may have been stumping you.

Be right back.

The Wirecutter Show is supported by Rocket Mortgage.

Your home is an active investment, not a passive one.

And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work.

right away.

When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family, renovations, extensions, even buying your next property.

Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts.

Find out how at rocketmortgage.com.

Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states, NMLSconsumerAccess.org, 3030.

Taking care of your skin is a personal daily ritual.

No matter what regimen works best for you, it's important to remember that great skincare doesn't have to be complicated.

With Clinique's classic three-step routine, fresh, radiant skin is as easy as one, two, three.

Clinique's iconic trio of products used to cleanse, exfoliate, and moisturize, is specifically created to address your skin's needs and provides a refreshingly simple solution for maintaining beautiful, resilient skin.

Twice a day, every day.

Great skin starts here.

Visit Clinique.com to learn more.

Bon Blanc invites you to use life's quiet moments to pause, reflect, and put pen to paper.

Chapter one.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Part one.

Perfect.

The mountains are impressive.

Oh, I wish you were here to see them.

Dear diary, meet my new writing companion, the Meister Stuck.

For every journey, the perfect companion awaits, Montblanc.

Let's write.

Visit Montblanc.com for exquisitely crafted writing instruments, leather goods, and more.

Welcome back.

With us now is Nancy Redd, who's a senior staff writer on our health team who covers everything from sunscreens to electric toothbrushes and blood pressure monitors.

She's also a New York Times best-selling health author and recently published her latest book, The Real Body Manual, Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness.

And she's been covering sunscreens at Wirecutter for over five years.

Nancy, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

I love sunscreen.

I do too, Nancy.

That's why I'm so happy to have you here.

And it probably won't be surprising to some people that we're doing a sunscreen episode as we approach summer.

But I think that's something that people may not know is that sunscreen should be worn year-round, rain or shine.

And I know that I fight to get my brothers, my parents to wear sunscreen at any time.

So Nancy, who exactly is sunscreen for?

Well, if you're breathing, if you're over six months old, then you need sunscreen.

Basically, everyone all year round should slather themselves with the stuff.

So when you say slather, do you wear it kind of like a lotion or is it something that you only put on your face?

It's like a all over thing, right?

Any part of your body that is remotely exposed to the sun, whether it is your toes or your forehead, then you definitely need to wear sunscreen.

And sometimes you can think, oh, well, well, that sounds overboard, but People who know know that you can get skin cancer anywhere from your scalp to your toenails.

So think of it, like you just said, like a lotion, right?

Where you want to make it part of your daily hygiene routine and sometimes multiple times a day in some climates.

The cancer scare part of it is very real, but Nancy, just to be completely candid, because I'm very vain,

I think the reason I wear sunscreen is because of the anti-aging part of it.

Oh, totally.

As an African-American woman,

coming into this job, in 2019, I did not think of sunscreen as something as important to my daily repertoire because of the adage, black don't crack.

But it can brown.

Brown can brown.

And when you brown, you are subject to issues like aging.

You are subject to issues like premature wrinkles, as well as the medical issues of skin cancer and damage.

It's the best thing you can do for yourself from a health standpoint and a vanity standpoint.

It helps to protect against certain skin cancers.

It diminishes hyperpigmentation, and it does help to prevent wrinkles from ultraviolet, aka UV ray damage.

So Nancy, you're standing in the sunscreen aisle at the pharmacy, at the store.

There are tons of brands.

There are so many SPFs, broad spectrum, other jargon.

I think it's really hard to tell what is marketing and what you really need to pay attention to.

So can you start at the beginning?

What is SPF?

What is the minimum you'd recommend?

SPF itself stands for sun protection factor.

Sun protection factor is how well a sunscreen protects against UVB rays, okay?

You can actually find sunscreens that are marked SPF 5, 50, and even 100.

Now, the minimum that experts recommend is SPF 30, okay?

And when you look at the label, it will say broad spectrum, hopefully.

Now, broad spectrum means that the sunscreen is shown to protect against both UVA and UVB rays, right?

So both of those.

Anything that is more than sun protection factor 30 only marginally increases your protection.

However, most of our body picks are SPF 50 and above.

Why?

Well,

because user error, such as not applying enough sunscreen to begin with.

and also not reapplying the required amount as often as directed.

So we're going to get into that that in a minute.

I'm curious, SPF 70 and SPF 100, does that mean you have to reapply it less often than an SPF 5?

No, it's just like whether you eat a hamburger or whether you eat a gourmet 5 class meal, you probably are going to need dinner the next day.

You should apply the sunscreen according to the directions.

We will almost always say every two hours or as needed.

So if you're in the burning sun, perhaps you want to try to reapply more often than if you were in an office job and only go out every few hours or so.

And Nancy, when you say UVA and UVB, what do we mean by that?

Both UVA and UVB rays are types of ultraviolet radiation from the sun.

I love how an expert once described it to me as the A is for aging and the B is for burning, but both can cause skin cancer.

So that's very important.

I think sometimes people think, oh, well, UVA is just about aging, it's just about vanity, but no, no, no, no, no.

UVB is known for sunburn.

UVA is known for aging, but both can lead to skin cancer.

Beyond SPF, there are a couple different categories of sunscreen and the terms always really confuse me.

So there's physical sunscreen and that's sometimes called mineral sunscreen.

And the second category is chemical sunscreens.

Can you just break down what the difference is between the mineral and the chemical sunscreens?

The active ingredients in mineral sunscreens

act like a barrier, like a physical barrier between you and the UV light.

When you put a mineral sunscreen on your body, it's like scattering the rays before they reach the skin surface, right?

It's like bouncing off.

The active ingredients in chemical sunscreens absorb the UV light.

So they act in very different ways.

Sometimes a sunscreen wants to both deflect and absorb.

So they'll have a mix of both mineral and chemical active ingredients, like a dummy whammy, if you will.

And those are referred to as combo sunscreens, combination.

And can you explain why anyone would choose one over the other?

Well, generally speaking, mineral and chemical sunscreens are equally as effective when they're applied correctly and when they're applied often enough.

And this is why my experts unanimously say, whether they are doctors or people in the field, the best sunscreen is the one you will wear.

Because

one caveat with a mineral sunscreen is that many of them tend to be more difficult to rub into the skin and they can leave a white cast.

But mineral sunscreens often are preferred by people with highly sensitive skin because the ingredients within are often less likely to irritate skin.

Now, chemical sunscreens, they are often much easier to rub in and they usually absorb a lot better into the skin.

They're essentially invisible, but some people might not be totally comfortable with the idea of chemical sunscreens because of the perceived harm to their health.

Now, it's very important at this moment to say that the FDA, which regulates sunscreens that are sold in the U.S.

as a drug, is working very hard with sunscreen makers to determine the safety and efficacy of a dozen chemical activant ingredients, right?

Now, in the meantime, there's no reason to stop using any sunscreen.

Whatever sunscreen you have, use it.

And I'll personally be honest, having covered sunscreen, hundreds of bottles of sunscreen over the last five and a half years, Mineral sunscreens have gotten much better.

Our mineral picks have become increasingly cosmetically elegant, which is the fancy term for they look good on your skin.

Honestly, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a quality mineral sunscreen and a chemical one after about 15 minutes, which is usually how long it takes for the lotions to fully dry down on the skin.

That's why one of the instructions on the back of sunscreens usually are apply 15 minutes before going off into the world.

I was wondering that because I always kind of assumed that the mineral sunscreen, because it was this physical blocker, like if you put it on, then you were good to go immediately.

But that's not the case.

Like you, with any sunscreen, you really should be waiting about 15 minutes before you go out into the sun.

If there's one thing I have learned at this job, follow the instructions.

They're there for you.

Read the manual.

Read the manual.

Make the most of the products you buy by following the directions.

Nancy, you've said they've gotten better aesthetically.

Is that true, even for us brown folks?

Oh, I totally understand, but you're operating with an old textbook.

The new news is these very cosmetically elegant sunscreens are just beautiful.

Our picks for mineral sunscreens, they are absolutely gorgeous on the skin and leave no, if not almost no, white cast.

I mean, some of my favorite things to do are to go and look at the reviews of our top picks and see all of the brown people who are like, oh my God, a mineral sunscreen I can actually wear.

And I feel like my work is making a difference in the world.

I haven't had the chance to try the new pick yet, Nancy, but I will say there is a caveat to the really nice mineral sunscreens, right?

Like they're just not cheap.

They're not cheap.

Oh.

Let me tell you, being bougie on a budget with sunscreen is rough and it's very disheartening to me.

I take into consideration with our sunscreen guide just how expensive it is to take care of yourself.

So yes, mineral sunscreens tend to be a factor of seven or higher

than chemical sunscreens.

Seven times more expensive.

So for example, my favorite chemical pick sunscreen in our traditional sunscreen guide is the Equate Sport Giant bottle, which is the Walmart brand.

It's the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested.

It's less than 40 cents an ounce.

It comes in this amazing jug.

If I say to people, hey, do you want to try this Equate Sport Giant bottle of sunscreen?

There will be some wrinkled noses.

However, that's why I do brand conceal testing.

And almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it, even more so than a lot of our more expensive sunscreens that we like.

Now, let's compare that to my new SPF Bestie, which is Badger's SPF Adventure Mineral Cream.

This is the new runner-up to thrive.

These are mineral sunscreens.

Badger's is fragrance-free.

It feels great.

It looks great.

It's only four ingredients, zinc oxide, sunflower seed, beeswax, and vitamin E, but it's $6 an ounce.

Okay.

Let's compare $6 an ounce to 40 cents an ounce.

So if you're on a beach day and you're expecting to put an ounce of sunscreen, which is about a shot glass's worth, on your body, like six times a day, six times six, that's $36 of sunscreen a day.

That's not tenable for the average individual.

So chemical mineral.

We talked about these two different types of sunscreens.

Sometimes it's not clear in bold letters on the bottles what brand is what.

How can you tell?

You are correct.

It is often difficult to tell.

So you're not often going to be able to tell the whole story from the front of the bottle or the tube.

You're going to need to turn around and check the active ingredients on the back of the bottle or tube.

Now, in a mineral sunscreen, there will only be two active ingredients possible, either or or a combination of zinc oxide and titanium dioxide.

Now, chemical sunscreens, there's so many active ingredients and they've all got funny names like ibobenzone or homosalate or all kinds of long-named ingredients.

But basically, if you see anything other than zinc oxide or titanium deoxide in the active ingredient section, it's a chemical or combination sunscreen.

If you see zinc oxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen.

If you see titanium deoxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen.

If you see zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, what is it, Kyra?

A mineral sunscreen.

There will be a quiz for everyone at the end of this episode.

I always, I mean, whenever I was doing the facial sunscreen testing, I would still get duped sometimes.

I thought I was buying like an all-mineral sunscreen, but then I would really look at the ingredients and realize, oh, crap, like I actually bought a combo because they won't say it on the bottom.

On the bottom, you have to look at the ingredients.

You really do.

Yeah.

As Nancy said, look at the label.

And if you can't pronounce any of the words on it at all, that it's a chemical.

Then it's chemical.

On the other hand, if you look at it and it only says zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, then it's a mineral.

And we're specifically talking about active ingredients because there will necessarily be other ingredients like fragrance and things like that.

Yeah.

But active ingredients, that's what we're looking for.

It'll be at the top of the ingredients box.

Absolutely.

And I also can get duped.

Some sunscreens use vague language like mineral plus or reef loving.

So it's always really good to check the ingredients.

Like a lot of the more inexpensive sunscreens that only use zinc oxide or titanium deoxide, they often won't call themselves mineral sunscreens.

They'll call themselves baby sunscreens, which I find interesting.

And these sunscreens often are, I mean, I treat myself like a baby.

I like to wear fragrance-free items or no-added fragrance items.

I like to have fewer ingredients.

So I always find that really interesting.

Right.

The only difference between baby sunscreens and regular sunscreens is that the baby baby ones often avoid harsher ingredients, like you're saying, Nancy, but grown-ups can certainly use sunscreens marketed towards babies.

And babies over six months old can use sunscreens that aren't marketed for them.

Yes.

And the reason that we're saying six months and older is because babies that are younger than that are more susceptible to the side effects of sunscreen.

So the best advice we can give you is just to keep your baby out of the sun altogether.

Nancy, I like to use Korean Korean sunscreens and Japanese sunscreens.

These are kind of different sunscreens than are available here in the United States, right?

They have different active ingredients.

Well, Christine, I didn't know that you walked on the wild side like that.

I didn't know I was in the presence of a felon.

Oh, shh, don't tell anybody.

Okay, I don't know.

Big brother could be listening to our podcast.

And so, therefore, I am going to stick to the fact that only sunscreens containing FDA-approved active ingredients are okayed for sale in the United States.

Well, I did buy my last batch in Japan.

So

straight from the source.

But I mean, there's definitely sites that you can buy these sunscreens through.

Oh, it's easier than ever to purchase imported sunscreens, and many people do.

And that's because the FDA hasn't approved any new sunscreen ingredients in nearly three decades.

Now, we're trying, but trying is not results at this moment.

And so other countries like the ones you mentioned, Japan, Korea, they've approved a variety of sunscreen filters that are reported to outperform FDA-approved active ingredients in terms of protection.

In particular, UVA protection.

And what does the A stand for?

Aging.

Aging.

Exactly, right?

So a lot of people like Christine, who has admitted her vanity, like to seek out.

products that pertain to their interests and also help them prevent skin skin cancer.

You're not alone, Christine.

Okay, good to know.

What about European sunscreens?

Those can also have different active ingredients than what you'd find in the States, right?

Absolutely.

And I have spoken with the FDA.

Everybody wants a solution.

It's just hard to come to.

One of the experts I've spoken to used the term quagmire.

For the European sunscreens, we've talked a bit on this show about how La Roche Pose is a, you know, like a pharmacy brand that you can now get in in the States.

And they sell a pretty popular sunscreen line.

Is the sunscreen that's available here from La Roche Pose, does it have those same active ingredients in Europe or is it a different sunscreen they're selling here in U.S.

pharmacies versus what you would buy, say, in France?

If it is on the shelves in American stores, you can best believe it only has either the two active mineral ingredients that the FDA has approved, one of the chemical active ingredients that the FDA has approved, or a combination of the two.

The fancy brands that are sold in America, there's not a single chemical active ingredient that has been approved since 1999.

So there's nothing new.

Okay, quick recap.

With sunscreen, you got to be wearing it all year round, every day.

All day.

You got to be wearing it in the snow, in the rain, in the sunshine, all four seasons, and you got to be looking for SPF 30 or above, ideally.

You also can consider your choices.

Chemical sunscreen, mineral sunscreen, or maybe a combo.

Mineral sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients, and those act like a physical barrier between you and UV light.

Chemical sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients that absorb UV light.

And again, the biggest slim dunk takeaway so far, sunscreen all day, every day.

We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll discuss some of the most surprising things that you've found, Nancy, in your sunscreen reporting, including how much sunscreen you should really be wearing, what people should know about quote-unquote reef-safe sunscreens, and other things that people might want to consider when protecting themselves from the sun.

We'll be right back.

The Wirecutter Show is supported by Rocket Mortgage.

Your home is an active investment, not a passive one.

And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away.

When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family.

Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property.

Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts.

Find out how at rocketmortgage.com.

Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states, NMLS ConsumerAccess.org, 3030.

Dell AI PCs are newly designed to help you do more faster.

That's the power of Dell AI, powered by Intel Core Ultra Processors.

Upgrade today by visiting Dell.com/slash deals.

Wayfair loves fall.

The crisp air, the cool nights, and of course, the seasonal lattes.

And as your trusted destination for all things home, Wayfair's got everything you need to cosify your space, from comfy recliners to warm bedding and autumn decor.

Wayfair even has espresso makers, so you can make that latte at home.

You know the one.

Head to Wayfair.com today to shop curated collections of easy, affordable fall updates.

That's w-a-y-f-a-ir-r.com.

Wayfair, every style, every home.

Hey, before we jump back into the show, we have a quick favor to ask.

We're running a survey to learn more about you, our listeners.

We want to know what you like about the show, what you don't like about the show, and what things you might want to hear.

It's super quick, and filling it out will help us make the wire cutter show even better for you.

So, go to the show notes for this episode, click on the link that says the Wire Cutter Show Audience Survey.

We really, really appreciate it.

Okay, back to the show.

Welcome back.

So, Nancy, in addition to broad spectrum, spectrum, another term I've seen on bottles of sunscreen is quote, reef-safe.

What does that mean?

And is that something we should be gravitating toward?

Okay, well, step one,

some sunscreens may be marketed as reef-safe.

Okay.

And there's many definitions that exist for this term.

Regulations vary location to location, but there is no such thing as a totally reef-safe sunscreen, only reef-friendly, or I like to say, reef-safer.

But the truth of the matter is reefs are suffering because of some sunscreen ingredients, okay?

Some sunscreen ingredients can be harmful to marine life and marine life includes coral reefs.

So if you're going into a place with reefs like Hawaii, for example, you need to be using a very specific kind of sunscreen when you're going into the ocean.

So what you need to do is look for sunscreens that utilize non-nano active minerals.

So you should be looking for non-nano-titanium dioxide or non-nano-zinc oxide in a mineral sunscreen.

And essentially, the particles of titanium dioxide or zinc oxide aren't small enough to be easily absorbed or ingested by marine life.

And really, the research says, or at least the most recent research says that non-nanoparticles are thought to be better than any other sunscreen sunscreen ingredients, but they're still not doing zero harm.

So the safest choice for marine life is to wear sun protective clothing in the ocean, like rash guards and no sunscreen at all.

But if you really want to wear sunscreen, go with something non-nano.

And Nancy, what are your recommendations in that category of quote-unquote reef safer sunscreens?

Okay, so I love our pics so much.

Anyone who's looking for sunscreen to take with them on their next fabulous trip, I recommend three brands or we as a collective, because contrary to popular belief, this isn't just me sitting around rubbing sunscreen on my body.

I test these things on so many people a year.

I test them on everyone from my mom with her.

older darker skin i test things on my brother with his beard i test things on my children my family my colleagues and i just had an amazing pool day where we all got together and tested different sunscreens from all of this very careful look and feel conversation, we recommend three Reef Safe Er brands, Thrive, ThinkSport, and Badger.

Where was my invite to this pool party?

Girl, you have got to come back to Los Angeles.

What did the panelists like the most this year?

Okay, so this has been a really fun year.

Like I said, every year the sunscreen gets better and better.

We did a ton of brand concealed evaluations where we focused on look and feel.

So we've got our tried and trues for a few years now.

Thrive, which is a reef-friendly mineral sunscreen.

The beloved sunscreen that is Banana Boat Light as air.

Now, it's a chemical sunscreen, but it's a great one.

I mean, it dries down.

Kyra, you can back me up.

It's got a great dry down.

Yeah, dry down is the fancy way of saying how does it feel on your skin after 15 minutes?

Is it tacky?

Is it greasy?

Do you feel it?

And it truly is light as air.

Fun fact:

the Banana Boat face sunscreen and the Banana Boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Kyra?

But they will charge you extra if you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen.

They will charge you extra for that.

That's a hot to look at it.

I like that.

I know.

Okay.

And then, of course, I've already talked at Nauseam about my favorite long time pick, the Equate Sport Giant bottle, which is the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested at less than 40 cents an ounce.

But almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it.

The caveat is it does smell like a medicine cabinet.

Lovely.

When you first put it on, okay, but that is the price you pay to have a jug of sunscreen for $13.

Okay.

Now, like I said earlier, my new SPF bestie, I'm telling you guys, Badger's SPF 50 Adventure Mineral Cream.

It's the new runner-up to thrive in the Reef Safe Guide.

Like I said, it's fragrance-free.

It feels great.

It looks great, but $6 an ounce.

I mean, bless whoever has that in their budget.

Nancy, now that we've got a basic understanding of sunscreen and how it works, I want to talk to you about the things people may be doing wrong with their sunscreens.

See, I learned so many surprising things when I was working on the wire cutter guide for face sunscreens.

So, I kind of wanted to reveal to the people some of our findings in the form of a game.

So, we're going to give you a scenario, and you're going to tell us what's wrong with this picture and explain why.

Are you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay,

scenario one.

On a hot summer day, I'll dab a little sunscreen on my face and my body when I go outside.

I mean, would you drink a thimble full of water if you felt dehydrated?

So, no, you should be applying at least an ounce of sunscreen to your whole body if you're going to be exposed to the sun.

Now, what does an ounce look like?

People say a shot glass full.

Basically, fill your whole palm full, divide it in two, and slather that all around your body, making sure to get get all of the crevices and creaks and crannies.

And when in doubt, put more on.

Like what I would rather be slightly more greasy than to not have a protected spot.

Yeah, when I was working on sunscreens, my motto became more is more because you can never have too much, only too little.

Okay, Nancy, scenario two.

I slather sunscreen all over my face and body.

right before I go out and I'm set for the day.

Now, this is actually something I also learned in my five and a half years here because let she amongst us who has not just slathered once and thought they were done for the day throw the first bottle of sunscreen because I did not realize that its efficacy wears off or it wears off.

So you should be reapplying sunscreen approximately every two hours or more often, especially if you're swimming or sweating.

I recommend setting a phone timer.

Continue to reapply.

Just like one glass of water isn't enough in the morning.

You need to drink water water throughout the day.

One application of sunscreen is also not enough.

Okay, next scenario.

It's the dead of a gloomy winter and I'm all bundled up all the time.

So the only area of skin exposed is my face.

So I don't wear any sunscreen.

That's the part that many people care about most.

So I definitely would suggest that you wear sunscreen.

on that exposed skin.

And what a lot of people don't realize is often winter sun with the reflection of the snow can be even harsher on your skin, right?

So definitely still wear sunscreen in the winter on that exposed skin.

At least half a teaspoon of sunscreen on your face, neck, and ears.

Don't forget your ears.

Don't forget behind the ears.

Don't forget inside the ear.

Like just get your ears, people.

And like you said, Kyra, as you learned when you did the face sunscreen guide, more is more.

Yeah.

Also, half a teaspoon can be kind of hard to measure out when you're just slathering sunscreen on your face.

But what I learned is that if you put out just your index and your middle finger and you line those two fingers with sunscreen, that should be enough for that entire area.

There you go.

Okay, here's another scenario.

What if I'm at the pool and I use spray sunscreen to get all of my kind of hard to reach nooks and crannies?

What do you think?

I think that you probably didn't get all the hard to reach nooks and crannies because we don't really recommend any spray sunscreens.

We totally understand their appeal.

So over the years, we've asked many experts about spray sunscreens unanimously.

They're like, spray sunscreens are not a good choice.

And that's for a couple of reasons.

Number one, you might be thinking it's getting those nooks and crannies, but it's not.

A lot of the sunscreen sprays away in the wind.

And the funny thing is, to get the sunscreen onto your skin, even after you spray it, you still have to rub it in.

So you're not even skipping a step.

You actually are adding a less effective step by using spray sunscreen.

Plus, if you can smell the spray, you're inhaling it.

And experts tell us that that poses a potential health risk.

Okay, Nancy, after I wash my face in the morning, I apply my sunscreen first and then my moisturizer.

Well, that's better than no sunscreen.

So step one, I give you an A for effort, but I give you a B

for the steps because our experts always tell us that sunscreen should be the last step in your skincare routine.

We wash your face, we do our skincare, and then you apply the sunscreen, let it set, and then put on your makeup if you're going to wear any.

Right.

Okay, I've got another scenario for you, Nancy.

I'm wearing a foundation with SPF 30 in it, so I don't have to wear sunscreen.

True?

Not true.

Because

of the parameters around how much sunscreen is enough, right?

So you need to use a lot of makeup, like half a teaspoon is more foundation than most people would normally wear in order to get the full SPF 30 protection, right?

So still wear your sunscreen.

There's no harm.

It would be difficult to wear enough makeup to effectively get the full SPF 30 sun protection.

So again, if you happen to get a little bit more, it's Kyra's more is more adage.

Always more is more.

Okay, I'm going to take the last one.

So let's say I don't trust that sunscreen actually works and I think it'll do more harm than good to my health.

Say like the chemicals will absorb into my skin and cause cancer.

So I don't wear it at all.

Well, we know Christine doesn't believe this because she's like hopping planes to Japan.

But of course we all know that's not true.

However, it's understandable how people can get the wrong idea.

Everybody makes the choices they want to make in their life.

We here at Wirecutter, I think it's very important to wear sunscreen.

It is possible to find a sunscreen that should work for you.

But if you're just like, nope, absolutely not, you're going to have to be dedicated to wearing sun protective clothing.

Now, sun protective clothing is amazing.

You've all seen people with those big old floppy hats, the masks, the jackets, the ponchos, the umbrella.

Kudos, if that's the life you choose to live, you're still protecting yourself from the sun.

UPF clothing is what you're going to want to look for.

You're going to want to look for ultraviolet protection factor.

Now, UPF is to fabric, what SPF is to sunscreens.

And there are some specifically manufactured UPF clothes, like rash guards for surfers.

All clothing offers some protection against UV rays, but not all fabrics are protective, like ones that are specifically manufactured.

So you're going to want to look for thicker, darker fabrics that are more protective than light, thin colored ones.

And

if if you can find a looser fit that's more baggy, that's not skin tight, it's more protective.

All right, that's good to know.

I will not be wearing my Eileen Fisher middle-aged lady look to protect myself from the sun.

I will be wearing polyester

bag over my body.

Right.

Yeah.

An umbrella.

I think I saw one on the runway this fashion week.

So there's always one.

You're just in vogue.

Okay, Nancy.

Before we wrap, we always ask our guests one final question.

What's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved?

I love this question.

I buy so many things that I love.

This is the best job for me because I love to shop.

I love to analyze things and I'm really thoughtful about the things I buy.

I think the last thing I bought that I really love is this bag that I have been eyeing, this backpack for at least seven or eight months.

It's the Tobik.

It's this backpack with all these compartments.

I got the biggest one, which is 60 liters.

It has like 18 compartments.

It's this giant backpack that can also serve as a carry-on suitcase.

Nancy, I'm listening.

Oh my God, it's amazing.

The Instagram ads got me.

I am an Instagram mom and my phone knows me better than I know myself.

So I bought.

the bag and I bought it at a time last month where I could get the new free people collab.

So it's these really cool rainbow colors and it's so beautiful.

I love it, and it carries all my stuff.

It has a huge laptop compartment.

I mean, I have like 10 giant backpacks, so adding this one was especially because it was like 200 bucks.

I was like, Do I need this?

And then I got it, I was like, I need this Atobic 60-liter backpack bag.

I love it, Nancy.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Really appreciate it.

I love you so much.

This is great.

Nancy Redd.

what a delight.

I love her.

A wealth of knowledge, but also just an absolute delight.

Yeah.

I'm never going to forget the UVA, UVB,

aging and burning.

Now I understand.

I love that.

My takeaway from this episode is just how much sunscreen I need to be putting on my whole body.

I think I've been really good about coverage on my face, but I got to make sure that I'm doing enough on my arms and my legs and my hands.

I can't have, you know, my toes wrinkling.

Yeah.

That's why price per ounce is so important.

Like you might feel like you're really in the weeds when you're looking at something like that.

But when you have to use like a shot glass worth of sunscreen on your body every day, that really does add up.

Or every two hours if you're outside in the sun.

A lot of times.

Yeah.

And also one thing that I really wanted to highlight again was just Nancy's point about reef safe sunscreens because I feel like there's a lot of intentional confusion around that.

I want to press people to look a little bit deeper into any sunscreens that they're picking up, hoping that they will be reef safe to just do a little extra digging and research to make sure that it is those non-nano-titanium dioxide or zinc oxide ingredients, because otherwise it isn't actually reef safe.

Yeah, I didn't know that before, and now I will know to look for that.

My big takeaway from this episode is that I am breaking the law, that I am an American, and I am buying sunscreen that I'm not supposed to be buying here in the United States, but I love it, and I will probably continue doing it.

CCC on the lamb.

The other big takeaway I have is that I know a lot of people who do end end up like ponying up for the La Roche Pose, like the European brand sunscreens at the pharmacy.

And those are great.

They might feel great, but you should not buy them thinking that they have the actual active ingredients that are sold in sunscreens in Europe.

If they're being sold in a pharmacy here in the States, they are not going to have those active ingredients.

They will have active ingredients that are FDA approved here.

So you're essentially buying a...

a U.S.

sunscreen that might feel fancier.

If you want to find out more about wire cutters coverage or if you want to check out any of the products that Nancy recommended today, in addition to any of her reporting on sunscreen, go to our website or you can find a link in our show notes.

And that is it for us this week.

If you're going to sunbathe, put on that sunscreen.

That's great.

Peace.

Bye.

The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel.

Engineering support from Mattie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.

Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba Itoupe, and Diane Wong.

Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager is Cliff Levy.

Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief.

I'm Christine Sear-Clissette.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

And I'm Rosie Guerin.

Thanks for listening.

It's like you can smoke it, but you can't sell it, sort of a thing.

The Wirecutter Show is supported by Rocket Mortgage.

Your home is an active investment, not a passive one.

And with Rocket Mortgage, you can put your home equity to work right away.

When you unlock your home equity, you unlock new doors for your family.

Renovations, extensions, even buying your next property.

Get started today with smarter tools and guidance from real mortgage experts.

Find out how at rocketmortgage.com.

Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states,

Consumer Access.org, 3030.