Sunscreen Demystified!

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Speaker 13 The banana boat face sunscreen and the banana boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Kyra?

Speaker 14 But they will charge you extra if you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen.

Speaker 13 They will charge you extra for that. That's a hot to look at it.

Speaker 15 I'm Christine Zier-Clissette.

Speaker 13 I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Speaker 16 I'm Rosie Guerin, and you're listening to The Wirecutter Show.

Speaker 15 This episode is called Sunscreen Demystified.

Speaker 13 Hello, hello. How are they?

Speaker 16 Today's topic, sunscreen.

Speaker 13 My favorite subject.

Speaker 15 It is truly a wonderful topic. I love sunscreen.

Speaker 16 I have been patting myself on the back for the last couple of years because I've really upped my sunscreen, my facial sunscreen game.

Speaker 13 but also my body sunscreen. That's amazing.
Are you wearing it every day? Mm-hmm. Like multiple times a day? This is private.

Speaker 16 I

Speaker 16 am reapplying it on my face. I'm wearing it every day.
Yeah.

Speaker 16 It's really important. I'm trying to keep this youthful glow.

Speaker 13 I mean, you're doing a great job. Yeah.

Speaker 15 What kind of sunscreen do you like to wear?

Speaker 16 I actually wear the facial sunscreen from Trader Joe's that Kyra recommended to me and I love it.

Speaker 13 I love that one.

Speaker 14 That's right.

Speaker 15 Cause Kyra, you are our resident facial sunscreen expert. You've written Wire Cutter's Guide to Facial Sunscreens.
You know quite a bit. I'm partial to Korean sunscreens.

Speaker 13 I

Speaker 13 love them. They tend to be lighter.

Speaker 15 They're very effective. I'm a little obsessed with them.

Speaker 14 No, I love the Korean sunscreens, but it's just that they're more expensive and harder to get.

Speaker 13 Yeah, unfortunately.

Speaker 15 You sometimes have to order them from Korea.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 14 But you know, you guys, we're not the norm in terms of how much sunscreen we're wearing and how often we're wearing it.

Speaker 14 Like lots of people right now are probably thinking, oh, it's getting warmer outside. so I need to start wearing sunscreen again.
Right. Which is not what's supposed to happen.

Speaker 14 Like, you're supposed to wear it all year round, rain or shine. There was a national survey done in 2023 that found that of those who participated, only 13.5% actually wear sunscreen on a daily basis.

Speaker 13 I want to know who these people that participated were. Were they like living under a rock or something like that? Maybe in a really rainy climate.

Speaker 14 But yeah, sunscreen is for all day, every day.

Speaker 15 You know, we've done a lot of sunscreen testing here at Wirecutter. We've tested all types of sunscreen.

Speaker 15 We are going to have Nancy Redd, who is one of our senior health writers, and she has tested a ton of body sunscreens.

Speaker 15 And so she's going to come on and talk with us about how you should be applying sunscreen, what you should be looking for in your sunscreens, demystifying all the terms you see on the bottles and even some of the terms you don't see on the bottles and you just kind of have to know.

Speaker 15 And we're going to really get into it with her.

Speaker 14 That's right. So we're going to take a quick break.
And then when we're back, we're gonna speak with Nancy about all of the complicated things about sunscreen that may have been stumping you.

Speaker 13 Be right back.

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Speaker 13 Welcome back.

Speaker 14 With us now is Nancy Redd, who's a senior staff writer on our health team who covers everything from sunscreens to electric toothbrushes and blood pressure monitors.

Speaker 14 She's also a New York Times best-selling health author and recently published her latest book, The Real Body Manual, Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness.

Speaker 14 And she's been covering sunscreens at Wirecutter for over five years.

Speaker 13 Nancy, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
I love sunscreen.

Speaker 14 I do too, Nancy.

Speaker 14 That's why I'm so happy to have you here. And it probably won't be surprising to some people that we're doing a sunscreen episode as we approach summer.

Speaker 14 But I think that's something that people may not know is that sunscreen should be worn year-round, rain or shine. And I know that I fight to get my brothers, my parents to wear sunscreen at any time.

Speaker 14 So Nancy, who exactly is sunscreen for?

Speaker 13 Well, if you're breathing, if you're over six months old, then you need sunscreen. Basically, everyone all year round should slather themselves with the stuff.

Speaker 14 So when you say slather, do you wear it kind of like a lotion or is it something that you only put on your face?

Speaker 13 It's like a all over thing, right? Any part of your body that is remotely exposed to the sun, whether it is your toes or your forehead, then you definitely need to wear sunscreen.

Speaker 13 And sometimes you can think, oh, well, well, that sounds overboard, but People who know know that you can get skin cancer anywhere from your scalp to your toenails.

Speaker 13 So think of it, like you just said, like a lotion, right? Where you want to make it part of your daily hygiene routine and sometimes multiple times a day in some climates.

Speaker 15 The cancer scare part of it is very real, but Nancy, just to be completely candid, because I'm very vain,

Speaker 15 I think the reason I wear sunscreen is because of the anti-aging part of it.

Speaker 13 Oh, totally.

Speaker 13 As an African-American woman,

Speaker 13 coming into this job, in 2019, I did not think of sunscreen as something as important to my daily repertoire because of the adage, black don't crack.

Speaker 13 But it can brown. Brown can brown.
And when you brown, you are subject to issues like aging. You are subject to issues like premature wrinkles, as well as the medical issues of skin cancer and damage.

Speaker 13 It's the best thing you can do for yourself from a health standpoint and a vanity standpoint. It helps to protect against certain skin cancers.

Speaker 13 It diminishes hyperpigmentation, and it does help to prevent wrinkles from ultraviolet, aka UV ray damage.

Speaker 16 So Nancy, you're standing in the sunscreen aisle at the pharmacy, at the store. There are tons of brands.
There are so many SPFs, broad spectrum, other jargon.

Speaker 16 I think it's really hard to tell what is marketing and what you really need to pay attention to.

Speaker 16 So can you start at the beginning?

Speaker 14 What is SPF?

Speaker 16 What is the minimum you'd recommend?

Speaker 13 SPF itself stands for sun protection factor. Sun protection factor is how well a sunscreen protects against UVB rays, okay? You can actually find sunscreens that are marked SPF 5, 50, and even 100.

Speaker 13 Now, the minimum that experts recommend is SPF 30, okay?

Speaker 13 And when you look at the label, it will say broad spectrum, hopefully. Now, broad spectrum means that the sunscreen is shown to protect against both UVA and UVB rays, right? So both of those.

Speaker 13 Anything that is more than sun protection factor 30 only marginally increases your protection. However, most of our body picks are SPF 50 and above.
Why? Well,

Speaker 13 because user error, such as not applying enough sunscreen to begin with. and also not reapplying the required amount as often as directed.

Speaker 16 So we're going to get into that that in a minute. I'm curious, SPF 70 and SPF 100, does that mean you have to reapply it less often than an SPF 5?

Speaker 13 No, it's just like whether you eat a hamburger or whether you eat a gourmet 5 class meal, you probably are going to need dinner the next day.

Speaker 13 You should apply the sunscreen according to the directions. We will almost always say every two hours or as needed.

Speaker 13 So if you're in the burning sun, perhaps you want to try to reapply more often than if you were in an office job and only go out every few hours or so.

Speaker 16 And Nancy, when you say UVA and UVB, what do we mean by that?

Speaker 13 Both UVA and UVB rays are types of ultraviolet radiation from the sun. I love how an expert once described it to me as the A is for aging and the B is for burning, but both can cause skin cancer.

Speaker 13 So that's very important. I think sometimes people think, oh, well, UVA is just about aging, it's just about vanity, but no, no, no, no, no.
UVB is known for sunburn.

Speaker 13 UVA is known for aging, but both can lead to skin cancer.

Speaker 15 Beyond SPF, there are a couple different categories of sunscreen and the terms always really confuse me. So there's physical sunscreen and that's sometimes called mineral sunscreen.

Speaker 15 And the second category is chemical sunscreens. Can you just break down what the difference is between the mineral and the chemical sunscreens?

Speaker 13 The active ingredients in mineral sunscreens

Speaker 13 act like a barrier, like a physical barrier between you and the UV light. When you put a mineral sunscreen on your body, it's like scattering the rays before they reach the skin surface, right?

Speaker 13 It's like bouncing off. The active ingredients in chemical sunscreens absorb the UV light.

Speaker 13 So they act in very different ways. Sometimes a sunscreen wants to both deflect and absorb.
So they'll have a mix of both mineral and chemical active ingredients, like a dummy whammy, if you will.

Speaker 13 And those are referred to as combo sunscreens, combination.

Speaker 14 And can you explain why anyone would choose one over the other?

Speaker 13 Well, generally speaking, mineral and chemical sunscreens are equally as effective when they're applied correctly and when they're applied often enough.

Speaker 13 And this is why my experts unanimously say, whether they are doctors or people in the field, the best sunscreen is the one you will wear.

Speaker 13 Because

Speaker 13 one caveat with a mineral sunscreen is that many of them tend to be more difficult to rub into the skin and they can leave a white cast.

Speaker 13 But mineral sunscreens often are preferred by people with highly sensitive skin because the ingredients within are often less likely to irritate skin.

Speaker 13 Now, chemical sunscreens, they are often much easier to rub in and they usually absorb a lot better into the skin.

Speaker 13 They're essentially invisible, but some people might not be totally comfortable with the idea of chemical sunscreens because of the perceived harm to their health.

Speaker 13 Now, it's very important at this moment to say that the FDA, which regulates sunscreens that are sold in the U.S.

Speaker 13 as a drug, is working very hard with sunscreen makers to determine the safety and efficacy of a dozen chemical activant ingredients, right?

Speaker 13 Now, in the meantime, there's no reason to stop using any sunscreen. Whatever sunscreen you have, use it.

Speaker 13 And I'll personally be honest, having covered sunscreen, hundreds of bottles of sunscreen over the last five and a half years, Mineral sunscreens have gotten much better.

Speaker 13 Our mineral picks have become increasingly cosmetically elegant, which is the fancy term for they look good on your skin.

Speaker 13 Honestly, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a quality mineral sunscreen and a chemical one after about 15 minutes, which is usually how long it takes for the lotions to fully dry down on the skin.

Speaker 13 That's why one of the instructions on the back of sunscreens usually are apply 15 minutes before going off into the world.

Speaker 15 I was wondering that because I always kind of assumed that the mineral sunscreen, because it was this physical blocker, like if you put it on, then you were good to go immediately.

Speaker 15 But that's not the case. Like you, with any sunscreen, you really should be waiting about 15 minutes before you go out into the sun.

Speaker 13 If there's one thing I have learned at this job, follow the instructions. They're there for you.
Read the manual.

Speaker 13 Read the manual.

Speaker 13 Make the most of the products you buy by following the directions.

Speaker 16 Nancy, you've said they've gotten better aesthetically. Is that true, even for us brown folks?

Speaker 13 Oh, I totally understand, but you're operating with an old textbook. The new news is these very cosmetically elegant sunscreens are just beautiful.

Speaker 13 Our picks for mineral sunscreens, they are absolutely gorgeous on the skin and leave no, if not almost no, white cast.

Speaker 13 I mean, some of my favorite things to do are to go and look at the reviews of our top picks and see all of the brown people who are like, oh my God, a mineral sunscreen I can actually wear.

Speaker 13 And I feel like my work is making a difference in the world.

Speaker 14 I haven't had the chance to try the new pick yet, Nancy, but I will say there is a caveat to the really nice mineral sunscreens, right? Like they're just not cheap.

Speaker 13 They're not cheap. Oh.

Speaker 13 Let me tell you, being bougie on a budget with sunscreen is rough and it's very disheartening to me.

Speaker 13 I take into consideration with our sunscreen guide just how expensive it is to take care of yourself. So yes, mineral sunscreens tend to be a factor of seven or higher

Speaker 13 than chemical sunscreens.

Speaker 16 Seven times more expensive.

Speaker 13 So for example, my favorite chemical pick sunscreen in our traditional sunscreen guide is the Equate Sport Giant bottle, which is the Walmart brand. It's the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested.

Speaker 13 It's less than 40 cents an ounce. It comes in this amazing jug.

Speaker 13 If I say to people, hey, do you want to try this Equate Sport Giant bottle of sunscreen? There will be some wrinkled noses. However, that's why I do brand conceal testing.

Speaker 13 And almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it, even more so than a lot of our more expensive sunscreens that we like.

Speaker 13 Now, let's compare that to my new SPF Bestie, which is Badger's SPF Adventure Mineral Cream. This is the new runner-up to thrive.
These are mineral sunscreens. Badger's is fragrance-free.

Speaker 13 It feels great. It looks great.
It's only four ingredients, zinc oxide, sunflower seed, beeswax, and vitamin E, but it's $6 an ounce. Okay.
Let's compare $6 an ounce to 40 cents an ounce.

Speaker 13 So if you're on a beach day and you're expecting to put an ounce of sunscreen, which is about a shot glass's worth, on your body, like six times a day, six times six, that's $36 of sunscreen a day.

Speaker 13 That's not tenable for the average individual.

Speaker 16 So chemical mineral. We talked about these two different types of sunscreens.
Sometimes it's not clear in bold letters on the bottles what brand is what.

Speaker 13 How can you tell? You are correct. It is often difficult to tell.
So you're not often going to be able to tell the whole story from the front of the bottle or the tube.

Speaker 13 You're going to need to turn around and check the active ingredients on the back of the bottle or tube.

Speaker 13 Now, in a mineral sunscreen, there will only be two active ingredients possible, either or or a combination of zinc oxide and titanium dioxide.

Speaker 13 Now, chemical sunscreens, there's so many active ingredients and they've all got funny names like ibobenzone or homosalate or all kinds of long-named ingredients.

Speaker 13 But basically, if you see anything other than zinc oxide or titanium deoxide in the active ingredient section, it's a chemical or combination sunscreen.

Speaker 13 If you see zinc oxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen. If you see titanium deoxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen.
If you see zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, what is it, Kyra?

Speaker 14 A mineral sunscreen.

Speaker 13 There will be a quiz for everyone at the end of this episode.

Speaker 14 I always, I mean, whenever I was doing the facial sunscreen testing, I would still get duped sometimes.

Speaker 14 I thought I was buying like an all-mineral sunscreen, but then I would really look at the ingredients and realize, oh, crap, like I actually bought a combo because they won't say it on the bottom.

Speaker 13 On the bottom, you have to look at the ingredients. You really do.

Speaker 14 Yeah. As Nancy said, look at the label.

Speaker 13 And if you can't pronounce any of the words on it at all, that it's a chemical. Then it's chemical.

Speaker 14 On the other hand, if you look at it and it only says zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, then it's a mineral.

Speaker 16 And we're specifically talking about active ingredients because there will necessarily be other ingredients like fragrance and things like that. Yeah.

Speaker 16 But active ingredients, that's what we're looking for.

Speaker 14 It'll be at the top of the ingredients box.

Speaker 13 Absolutely. And I also can get duped.
Some sunscreens use vague language like mineral plus or reef loving.

Speaker 13 So it's always really good to check the ingredients. Like a lot of the more inexpensive sunscreens that only use zinc oxide or titanium deoxide, they often won't call themselves mineral sunscreens.

Speaker 13 They'll call themselves baby sunscreens, which I find interesting. And these sunscreens often are, I mean, I treat myself like a baby.
I like to wear fragrance-free items or no-added fragrance items.

Speaker 13 I like to have fewer ingredients. So I always find that really interesting.
Right.

Speaker 14 The only difference between baby sunscreens and regular sunscreens is that the baby baby ones often avoid harsher ingredients, like you're saying, Nancy, but grown-ups can certainly use sunscreens marketed towards babies.

Speaker 14 And babies over six months old can use sunscreens that aren't marketed for them.

Speaker 13 Yes.

Speaker 14 And the reason that we're saying six months and older is because babies that are younger than that are more susceptible to the side effects of sunscreen.

Speaker 14 So the best advice we can give you is just to keep your baby out of the sun altogether.

Speaker 15 Nancy, I like to use Korean Korean sunscreens and Japanese sunscreens. These are kind of different sunscreens than are available here in the United States, right?

Speaker 15 They have different active ingredients.

Speaker 13 Well, Christine, I didn't know that you walked on the wild side like that.

Speaker 13 I didn't know I was in the presence of a felon.

Speaker 13 Oh, shh, don't tell anybody. Okay, I don't know.
Big brother could be listening to our podcast.

Speaker 13 And so, therefore, I am going to stick to the fact that only sunscreens containing FDA-approved active ingredients are okayed for sale in the United States.

Speaker 15 Well, I did buy my last batch in Japan. So

Speaker 15 straight from the source.

Speaker 15 But I mean, there's definitely sites that you can buy these sunscreens through.

Speaker 13 Oh, it's easier than ever to purchase imported sunscreens, and many people do. And that's because the FDA hasn't approved any new sunscreen ingredients in nearly three decades.

Speaker 13 Now, we're trying, but trying is not results at this moment.

Speaker 13 And so other countries like the ones you mentioned, Japan, Korea, they've approved a variety of sunscreen filters that are reported to outperform FDA-approved active ingredients in terms of protection.

Speaker 13 In particular, UVA protection. And what does the A stand for? Aging.
Aging. Exactly, right? So a lot of people like Christine, who has admitted her vanity, like to seek out.

Speaker 13 products that pertain to their interests and also help them prevent skin skin cancer. You're not alone, Christine.
Okay, good to know.

Speaker 15 What about European sunscreens? Those can also have different active ingredients than what you'd find in the States, right?

Speaker 13 Absolutely. And I have spoken with the FDA.
Everybody wants a solution. It's just hard to come to.
One of the experts I've spoken to used the term quagmire.

Speaker 15 For the European sunscreens, we've talked a bit on this show about how La Roche Pose is a, you know, like a pharmacy brand that you can now get in in the States.

Speaker 15 And they sell a pretty popular sunscreen line.

Speaker 15 Is the sunscreen that's available here from La Roche Pose, does it have those same active ingredients in Europe or is it a different sunscreen they're selling here in U.S.

Speaker 15 pharmacies versus what you would buy, say, in France?

Speaker 13 If it is on the shelves in American stores, you can best believe it only has either the two active mineral ingredients that the FDA has approved, one of the chemical active ingredients that the FDA has approved, or a combination of the two.

Speaker 13 The fancy brands that are sold in America, there's not a single chemical active ingredient that has been approved since 1999. So there's nothing new.

Speaker 13 Okay, quick recap.

Speaker 16 With sunscreen, you got to be wearing it all year round, every day.

Speaker 13 All day.

Speaker 16 You got to be wearing it in the snow, in the rain, in the sunshine, all four seasons, and you got to be looking for SPF 30 or above, ideally. You also can consider your choices.

Speaker 16 Chemical sunscreen, mineral sunscreen, or maybe a combo. Mineral sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients, and those act like a physical barrier between you and UV light.

Speaker 16 Chemical sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients that absorb UV light. And again, the biggest slim dunk takeaway so far, sunscreen all day, every day.

Speaker 15 We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll discuss some of the most surprising things that you've found, Nancy, in your sunscreen reporting, including how much sunscreen you should really be wearing, what people should know about quote-unquote reef-safe sunscreens, and other things that people might want to consider when protecting themselves from the sun.

Speaker 13 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 14 Okay, back to the show.

Speaker 13 Welcome back.

Speaker 16 So, Nancy, in addition to broad spectrum, spectrum, another term I've seen on bottles of sunscreen is quote, reef-safe.

Speaker 13 What does that mean?

Speaker 16 And is that something we should be gravitating toward?

Speaker 13 Okay, well, step one,

Speaker 13 some sunscreens may be marketed as reef-safe. Okay.
And there's many definitions that exist for this term.

Speaker 13 Regulations vary location to location, but there is no such thing as a totally reef-safe sunscreen, only reef-friendly, or I like to say, reef-safer.

Speaker 13 But the truth of the matter is reefs are suffering because of some sunscreen ingredients, okay? Some sunscreen ingredients can be harmful to marine life and marine life includes coral reefs.

Speaker 13 So if you're going into a place with reefs like Hawaii, for example, you need to be using a very specific kind of sunscreen when you're going into the ocean.

Speaker 13 So what you need to do is look for sunscreens that utilize non-nano active minerals. So you should be looking for non-nano-titanium dioxide or non-nano-zinc oxide in a mineral sunscreen.

Speaker 13 And essentially, the particles of titanium dioxide or zinc oxide aren't small enough to be easily absorbed or ingested by marine life.

Speaker 14 And really, the research says, or at least the most recent research says that non-nanoparticles are thought to be better than any other sunscreen sunscreen ingredients, but they're still not doing zero harm.

Speaker 14 So the safest choice for marine life is to wear sun protective clothing in the ocean, like rash guards and no sunscreen at all. But if you really want to wear sunscreen, go with something non-nano.

Speaker 14 And Nancy, what are your recommendations in that category of quote-unquote reef safer sunscreens?

Speaker 13 Okay, so I love our pics so much.

Speaker 13 Anyone who's looking for sunscreen to take with them on their next fabulous trip, I recommend three brands or we as a collective, because contrary to popular belief, this isn't just me sitting around rubbing sunscreen on my body.

Speaker 13 I test these things on so many people a year. I test them on everyone from my mom with her.

Speaker 13 older darker skin i test things on my brother with his beard i test things on my children my family my colleagues and i just had an amazing pool day where we all got together and tested different sunscreens from all of this very careful look and feel conversation, we recommend three Reef Safe Er brands, Thrive, ThinkSport, and Badger.

Speaker 14 Where was my invite to this pool party?

Speaker 13 Girl, you have got to come back to Los Angeles.

Speaker 15 What did the panelists like the most this year?

Speaker 13 Okay, so this has been a really fun year. Like I said, every year the sunscreen gets better and better.
We did a ton of brand concealed evaluations where we focused on look and feel.

Speaker 13 So we've got our tried and trues for a few years now. Thrive, which is a reef-friendly mineral sunscreen.
The beloved sunscreen that is Banana Boat Light as air.

Speaker 13 Now, it's a chemical sunscreen, but it's a great one. I mean, it dries down.
Kyra, you can back me up. It's got a great dry down.

Speaker 13 Yeah, dry down is the fancy way of saying how does it feel on your skin after 15 minutes? Is it tacky? Is it greasy? Do you feel it? And it truly is light as air. Fun fact:

Speaker 13 the Banana Boat face sunscreen and the Banana Boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Kyra?

Speaker 14 But they will charge you extra if you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen.

Speaker 13 They will charge you extra for that. That's a hot to look at it.
I like that. I know.
Okay.

Speaker 13 And then, of course, I've already talked at Nauseam about my favorite long time pick, the Equate Sport Giant bottle, which is the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested at less than 40 cents an ounce.

Speaker 13 But almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it. The caveat is it does smell like a medicine cabinet.
Lovely.

Speaker 13 When you first put it on, okay, but that is the price you pay to have a jug of sunscreen for $13.

Speaker 13 Okay. Now, like I said earlier, my new SPF bestie, I'm telling you guys, Badger's SPF 50 Adventure Mineral Cream.
It's the new runner-up to thrive in the Reef Safe Guide.

Speaker 13 Like I said, it's fragrance-free. It feels great.
It looks great, but $6 an ounce. I mean, bless whoever has that in their budget.

Speaker 14 Nancy, now that we've got a basic understanding of sunscreen and how it works, I want to talk to you about the things people may be doing wrong with their sunscreens.

Speaker 14 See, I learned so many surprising things when I was working on the wire cutter guide for face sunscreens. So, I kind of wanted to reveal to the people some of our findings in the form of a game.

Speaker 14 So, we're going to give you a scenario, and you're going to tell us what's wrong with this picture and explain why.

Speaker 13 Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay,

Speaker 14 scenario one. On a hot summer day, I'll dab a little sunscreen on my face and my body when I go outside.

Speaker 13 I mean, would you drink a thimble full of water if you felt dehydrated? So, no, you should be applying at least an ounce of sunscreen to your whole body if you're going to be exposed to the sun.

Speaker 13 Now, what does an ounce look like? People say a shot glass full.

Speaker 13 Basically, fill your whole palm full, divide it in two, and slather that all around your body, making sure to get get all of the crevices and creaks and crannies. And when in doubt, put more on.

Speaker 13 Like what I would rather be slightly more greasy than to not have a protected spot.

Speaker 14 Yeah, when I was working on sunscreens, my motto became more is more because you can never have too much, only too little.

Speaker 16 Okay, Nancy, scenario two.

Speaker 16 I slather sunscreen all over my face and body.

Speaker 13 right before I go out and I'm set for the day.

Speaker 13 Now, this is actually something I also learned in my five and a half years here because let she amongst us who has not just slathered once and thought they were done for the day throw the first bottle of sunscreen because I did not realize that its efficacy wears off or it wears off.

Speaker 13 So you should be reapplying sunscreen approximately every two hours or more often, especially if you're swimming or sweating. I recommend setting a phone timer.
Continue to reapply.

Speaker 13 Just like one glass of water isn't enough in the morning. You need to drink water water throughout the day.
One application of sunscreen is also not enough.

Speaker 14 Okay, next scenario. It's the dead of a gloomy winter and I'm all bundled up all the time.
So the only area of skin exposed is my face. So I don't wear any sunscreen.

Speaker 13 That's the part that many people care about most.

Speaker 13 So I definitely would suggest that you wear sunscreen. on that exposed skin.

Speaker 13 And what a lot of people don't realize is often winter sun with the reflection of the snow can be even harsher on your skin, right?

Speaker 13 So definitely still wear sunscreen in the winter on that exposed skin. At least half a teaspoon of sunscreen on your face, neck, and ears.
Don't forget your ears. Don't forget behind the ears.

Speaker 13 Don't forget inside the ear. Like just get your ears, people.
And like you said, Kyra, as you learned when you did the face sunscreen guide, more is more. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Also, half a teaspoon can be kind of hard to measure out when you're just slathering sunscreen on your face.

Speaker 14 But what I learned is that if you put out just your index and your middle finger and you line those two fingers with sunscreen, that should be enough for that entire area.

Speaker 13 There you go.

Speaker 16 Okay, here's another scenario. What if I'm at the pool and I use spray sunscreen to get all of my kind of hard to reach nooks and crannies? What do you think?

Speaker 13 I think that you probably didn't get all the hard to reach nooks and crannies because we don't really recommend any spray sunscreens. We totally understand their appeal.

Speaker 13 So over the years, we've asked many experts about spray sunscreens unanimously. They're like, spray sunscreens are not a good choice.
And that's for a couple of reasons.

Speaker 13 Number one, you might be thinking it's getting those nooks and crannies, but it's not. A lot of the sunscreen sprays away in the wind.

Speaker 13 And the funny thing is, to get the sunscreen onto your skin, even after you spray it, you still have to rub it in. So you're not even skipping a step.

Speaker 13 You actually are adding a less effective step by using spray sunscreen. Plus, if you can smell the spray, you're inhaling it.
And experts tell us that that poses a potential health risk.

Speaker 14 Okay, Nancy, after I wash my face in the morning, I apply my sunscreen first and then my moisturizer.

Speaker 13 Well, that's better than no sunscreen. So step one, I give you an A for effort, but I give you a B

Speaker 13 for the steps because our experts always tell us that sunscreen should be the last step in your skincare routine.

Speaker 13 We wash your face, we do our skincare, and then you apply the sunscreen, let it set, and then put on your makeup if you're going to wear any. Right.

Speaker 16 Okay, I've got another scenario for you, Nancy. I'm wearing a foundation with SPF 30 in it, so I don't have to wear sunscreen.

Speaker 13 True? Not true. Because

Speaker 13 of the parameters around how much sunscreen is enough, right?

Speaker 13 So you need to use a lot of makeup, like half a teaspoon is more foundation than most people would normally wear in order to get the full SPF 30 protection, right? So still wear your sunscreen.

Speaker 13 There's no harm. It would be difficult to wear enough makeup to effectively get the full SPF 30 sun protection.

Speaker 16 So again, if you happen to get a little bit more, it's Kyra's more is more adage.

Speaker 14 Always more is more.

Speaker 13 Okay, I'm going to take the last one.

Speaker 15 So let's say I don't trust that sunscreen actually works and I think it'll do more harm than good to my health. Say like the chemicals will absorb into my skin and cause cancer.

Speaker 15 So I don't wear it at all.

Speaker 13 Well, we know Christine doesn't believe this because she's like hopping planes to Japan.

Speaker 13 But of course we all know that's not true. However, it's understandable how people can get the wrong idea.
Everybody makes the choices they want to make in their life.

Speaker 13 We here at Wirecutter, I think it's very important to wear sunscreen. It is possible to find a sunscreen that should work for you.

Speaker 13 But if you're just like, nope, absolutely not, you're going to have to be dedicated to wearing sun protective clothing. Now, sun protective clothing is amazing.

Speaker 13 You've all seen people with those big old floppy hats, the masks, the jackets, the ponchos, the umbrella. Kudos, if that's the life you choose to live, you're still protecting yourself from the sun.

Speaker 13 UPF clothing is what you're going to want to look for. You're going to want to look for ultraviolet protection factor.
Now, UPF is to fabric, what SPF is to sunscreens.

Speaker 13 And there are some specifically manufactured UPF clothes, like rash guards for surfers.

Speaker 13 All clothing offers some protection against UV rays, but not all fabrics are protective, like ones that are specifically manufactured.

Speaker 13 So you're going to want to look for thicker, darker fabrics that are more protective than light, thin colored ones. And

Speaker 13 if if you can find a looser fit that's more baggy, that's not skin tight, it's more protective.

Speaker 15 All right, that's good to know. I will not be wearing my Eileen Fisher middle-aged lady look to protect myself from the sun.

Speaker 13 I will be wearing polyester

Speaker 13 bag over my body. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 13 An umbrella. I think I saw one on the runway this fashion week.
So there's always one. You're just in vogue.

Speaker 14 Okay, Nancy. Before we wrap, we always ask our guests one final question.
What's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved?

Speaker 13 I love this question. I buy so many things that I love.
This is the best job for me because I love to shop. I love to analyze things and I'm really thoughtful about the things I buy.

Speaker 13 I think the last thing I bought that I really love is this bag that I have been eyeing, this backpack for at least seven or eight months. It's the Tobik.

Speaker 13 It's this backpack with all these compartments. I got the biggest one, which is 60 liters.
It has like 18 compartments. It's this giant backpack that can also serve as a carry-on suitcase.

Speaker 16 Nancy, I'm listening.

Speaker 13 Oh my God, it's amazing. The Instagram ads got me.
I am an Instagram mom and my phone knows me better than I know myself. So I bought.

Speaker 13 the bag and I bought it at a time last month where I could get the new free people collab. So it's these really cool rainbow colors and it's so beautiful.
I love it, and it carries all my stuff.

Speaker 13 It has a huge laptop compartment. I mean, I have like 10 giant backpacks, so adding this one was especially because it was like 200 bucks.
I was like, Do I need this?

Speaker 13 And then I got it, I was like, I need this Atobic 60-liter backpack bag.

Speaker 16 I love it, Nancy. Thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 13 I love you so much. This is great.

Speaker 13 Nancy Redd. what a delight.
I love her.

Speaker 16 A wealth of knowledge, but also just an absolute delight.

Speaker 13 Yeah. I'm never going to forget the UVA, UVB,

Speaker 13 aging and burning.

Speaker 15 Now I understand.

Speaker 13 I love that.

Speaker 16 My takeaway from this episode is just how much sunscreen I need to be putting on my whole body.

Speaker 16 I think I've been really good about coverage on my face, but I got to make sure that I'm doing enough on my arms and my legs and my hands. I can't have, you know, my toes wrinkling.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 14 That's why price per ounce is so important. Like you might feel like you're really in the weeds when you're looking at something like that.

Speaker 14 But when you have to use like a shot glass worth of sunscreen on your body every day, that really does add up.

Speaker 13 Or every two hours if you're outside in the sun.

Speaker 15 A lot of times.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 14 And also one thing that I really wanted to highlight again was just Nancy's point about reef safe sunscreens because I feel like there's a lot of intentional confusion around that.

Speaker 14 I want to press people to look a little bit deeper into any sunscreens that they're picking up, hoping that they will be reef safe to just do a little extra digging and research to make sure that it is those non-nano-titanium dioxide or zinc oxide ingredients, because otherwise it isn't actually reef safe.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I didn't know that before, and now I will know to look for that.

Speaker 15 My big takeaway from this episode is that I am breaking the law, that I am an American, and I am buying sunscreen that I'm not supposed to be buying here in the United States, but I love it, and I will probably continue doing it.

Speaker 13 CCC on the lamb.

Speaker 15 The other big takeaway I have is that I know a lot of people who do end end up like ponying up for the La Roche Pose, like the European brand sunscreens at the pharmacy. And those are great.

Speaker 15 They might feel great, but you should not buy them thinking that they have the actual active ingredients that are sold in sunscreens in Europe.

Speaker 15 If they're being sold in a pharmacy here in the States, they are not going to have those active ingredients. They will have active ingredients that are FDA approved here.

Speaker 15 So you're essentially buying a... a U.S.
sunscreen that might feel fancier.

Speaker 16 If you want to find out more about wire cutters coverage or if you want to check out any of the products that Nancy recommended today, in addition to any of her reporting on sunscreen, go to our website or you can find a link in our show notes.

Speaker 16 And that is it for us this week. If you're going to sunbathe, put on that sunscreen.

Speaker 13 That's great.

Speaker 16 Peace. Bye.

Speaker 15 The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.
Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson.

Speaker 15 Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Ba Itoupe, and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's deputy publisher and general manager is Cliff Levy.
Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief.

Speaker 15 I'm Christine Sear-Clissette.

Speaker 13 I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Speaker 16 And I'm Rosie Guerin.

Speaker 15 Thanks for listening.

Speaker 15 It's like you can smoke it, but you can't sell it, sort of a thing.

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