Love Your Mattress

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Speaker 11 It's not the bed that I remember as a child, like a trampoline where you're just like, woo!

Speaker 12 Yeah. Oh my gosh, I never thought about that.

Speaker 11 Yeah. I used to get height.
I've seen my kids try to jump on my bed and they are not getting any height. No, it's really pretty.
Not impressive. It's pretty dismal.

Speaker 11 I'm Christine Zier-Clissette. I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Speaker 12 I'm Rosie Garin, and you're listening to The Wire Cutter Show.

Speaker 11 This episode is called Love Your Mattress.

Speaker 11 Rosie, you may not be aware of this, but... Why wouldn't I be aware of this?

Speaker 12 I know exactly what you're going to say.

Speaker 11 All right, so you're aware of that next week is President's Day. Obviously.
Next Monday.

Speaker 12 I've been counting down for months.

Speaker 11 Which celebrates our past past president's birthdays.

Speaker 11 But it also happens to coincide with Wirecutter's annual sleep week, where we cover things you sleep on, but just also how to get better sleep, which I think we can all agree is a very, very important thing.

Speaker 11 It also happens to be a time of year that a lot of bedding companies have sales and deals.

Speaker 11 If you are thinking about upgrading something on your bed, it is a good time to kind of be looking out for things you might want and if you want to get a good deal.

Speaker 12 The twins are doing a unit on hibernation at school right now. So So I think this is the time of year where we're hunkered down.
We're in our beds. It's cold.
We're not yet thinking about spring.

Speaker 11 Do you like your bed? Do you feel like you're comfortable sleeping?

Speaker 12 I love my bed. I love my mattress.
Spring for something that I hoped would last. And we've had it several years.

Speaker 11 Well, I thought this would be a great opportunity to talk with Kyra who co-hosts. Hi, Kyra Blackwell.
Wow. She sounds amazing.
She's

Speaker 11 absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 12 She's incredible. She's a mattress expert.

Speaker 11 I love that we're getting all this in writing.

Speaker 12 I know.

Speaker 11 I should be careful here. Well, Kyra, you've been testing mattresses for a couple of years for Wirecutter, right?

Speaker 11 So we figured this would be a good opportunity to chat with you, not only about if you're in the market for a new mattress, we're going to talk about that a little later in the episode, but what people can do for their mattress right now, if they don't feel like buying a new bed, how to make your mattress more comfortable.

Speaker 11 I mean, mattresses are incredibly important, important, but also incredibly personal. Yep.
There's just like no best mattress for everyone. Yeah.

Speaker 11 I mean, my goal is not to find the best mattress of all time because that just doesn't exist point blank.

Speaker 11 My goal is to try a bunch and also to get a lot of other people with different body sizes and preferences to test them too.

Speaker 11 And then I just collect all of that feedback and sort of synthesize it so that you can find the best mattress for you. I mean, we spend what, like a third of our lives in bed.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 So you really want to get a mattress that works for you.

Speaker 12 This is really a good opportunity too to put you in the hot seat and ask you all these questions. Like, I feel like it's the question that most people ask you, but how do you do it?

Speaker 12 How have you tested mattresses?

Speaker 11 Yeah. I've been testing mattresses for about two and a half years now, and it requires a lot of spreadsheets, as I'm sure every wire cutter tester will tell you.

Speaker 11 And also it requires a lot of logistics. There's nothing more nightmarish than trying to get 12 queen size mattresses into an office.
And then from there, I narrow that down.

Speaker 11 And then I try to get one queen-size mattress into my apartment where I test it at home. And not just like any apartment, but a New York City apartment.
So that has its own set of challenges.

Speaker 11 Like, are you in a walk-up? Well, I used to be. I actually moved in part because of this job.
I used to live on the fourth floor, no elevator.

Speaker 11 Oh, and I would be getting new mattresses like every month or so, which was just, it was a bad situation.

Speaker 12 So I don't even think I know this. You will test a large number in the testing space in Long Island City, and then that's where kind of the spreadsheeting begins.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I probably will go through dozens, dozens of options through my spreadsheets, and then I'll reach out to companies and I have a certain criteria that each mattress needs to meet before I can even start to think about bringing them into the office.

Speaker 11 So I try to narrow it down to about 12 or less. And then I will call them into the office.
I set them up. We cover the mattresses so people don't actually know what brands they are.

Speaker 11 And then I like make a survey and then people will come in and and test the mattresses and fill out the surveys and it's all like ranked basically. It's pretty, it's fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 And then when we finally get our finalists narrowed down, which is usually somewhere between two and three mattresses, I will actually have those mattresses sent to my home.

Speaker 11 When I test them at home, I sleep on them for a minimum of seven nights.

Speaker 11 And what I'm really looking for there is defects or things that you just can't tell when you are only testing them for 10 minutes at a time, like you would at a mattress store.

Speaker 11 So for example, I tested a really cheap mattress that cost about $200 at the time. It's a bed in a box and I had it sent to my apartment.

Speaker 11 I dragged it up four flights of stairs and then I opened it up and the mattress did not inflate all the way. It was awful.

Speaker 11 So basically the mattress was like arched in the middle upwards and I had to sleep on that for seven days straight,

Speaker 11 which is terrible, but it's good testing notes because then I know what's the process for getting a defective mattress and how easy is it to return it, get your money back. So all of that is valuable.

Speaker 12 How many mattresses have you tested at this point?

Speaker 11 Well, I've lost count, but it has to be nearly 100 at this point. What's the wildest, weirdest testing story you have?

Speaker 11 I haven't actually owned my own mattress the entire time I've been testing at Wirecutter.

Speaker 12 That's what. Wait.

Speaker 11 So it's just like a rotation. It's just mattresses coming through your apartment.
Yeah, I don't own my own mattress. This is, so I'm currently testing a mattress.

Speaker 11 I've been testing it for six months, and this is the longest I've had the same mattress since I started writing for sleep on Wirecutter.

Speaker 11 Okay, but you got to back up a minute before we feel too bad for you. Tell us about the mattress you're testing right now.

Speaker 11 Yeah, so I think right now the wildest thing that I've ever tested for wirecutter is this current mattress, and it costs about $75,000, but that's for everything.

Speaker 11 The mattress, the topper, the box ring, and the connecting headboard. So it's, it's the entire bed.

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh. Wait, what's the brand? It's a Hastens mattress.
It's a Hastens mattress. Hastens is how you say it.
Hastens.

Speaker 11 So a Hastens mattress, the star ingredient is horse hair, but the entire mattress is made of natural materials.

Speaker 11 So it's got cotton, it's got flax, it's got wool, but the horse hair is the star of the show. It's all handmade.

Speaker 12 I'm currently Googling what can I buy for $70,000.

Speaker 11 It's definitely a down payment on a house in certain parts of the country.

Speaker 11 Yes, it is. Yeah, but this is kind of like the bed of celebrities, right? Martha Stort loves her Hastens mattress.
Yes. Drake famously also has it.

Speaker 11 It's an investment for sure, but they do claim that the mattress is supposed to last you an entire life and even more. Is it worth $70,000? Do you feel like

Speaker 12 $75,000,

Speaker 11 Christine?

Speaker 12 That extra five will put you over the edge.

Speaker 11 Yeah, this is the area I don't think I actually have the authority to tell you if it's worth it.

Speaker 11 I mean, what I will say is that it's the best mattress that I've ever slept on, but I am by no means telling you to go out and spend a year's salary and some change on a mattress.

Speaker 11 I mean, if you have the money, go for it. Yeah, I mean, we're not going to hold you back.
But I mean, at Wirecutter, we do this sometimes, right?

Speaker 11 We, we test very high-end items and very low-end items just to kind of have a comparison point when we're testing other things.

Speaker 11 And like 95% of the time, we're going to go with something in the middle. Very rarely are we going to recommend something so high-end.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 But it's really helpful for the journalism to just be able to have those reference points. You know, it gives us a chance to like say, you know, try a $75,000 mattress.
We do it for the journalists.

Speaker 11 It's for science.

Speaker 12 I think the biggest takeaway is that I have to keep playing Miss Scratchers because I really want a $75,000 mattress.

Speaker 11 If you have $70K to burn, go ahead, do it. I don't think you'll regret that decision.

Speaker 11 Okay, well, thankfully, the overall takeaway of this episode is not that you need to go out and spend $75,000 on a mattress. Just stepping back a minute, you know, a bad.

Speaker 11 mattress or an uncomfortable bed can really screw up your sleep. You can just wake up not feeling great.
It's a fundamentally kind of part of sleep hygiene.

Speaker 12 It's important. We spend a ton of our lives sleeping.
Yeah, a third.

Speaker 11 Let's dig into this a little bit. After the break, we're going to talk about how to make a bed more comfortable that you already have.

Speaker 11 So, listeners who are not wanting to buy a new mattress, we've got lots of tips for you.

Speaker 11 And then we're going to talk a little bit about your real insider tips at this point about how to shop for a mattress. Love it.
All right.

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Speaker 11 Welcome back. Today, it's Kyra Blackwell, our co-host extraordinaire, but also one of WireCutter's resident mattress testers and experts around sleep.

Speaker 11 Kyra, we're going to put you in the hot seat today, and we are talking all about how to get a better night's sleep on your bed.

Speaker 12 And if for whatever reason you can't, how to buy a new one.

Speaker 11 Okay, so Kyra, I personally have a huge amount of trouble with sleep. I wake up all the time.
I'm a light sleeper. I am getting older.
So that means like many, many things change.

Speaker 11 And like, you know, I have one glass of wine. I can't get any sleep.
My kids wake me up like 13 times a night.

Speaker 11 I want to know, Kyra, for someone who's maybe not getting optimal sleep right now, how can you kind of parse out whether your mattress is actually the problem? Totally.

Speaker 11 I think the biggest signs would be if you're waking up and your back is sore or your joints are achy or you're waking up in the middle of the night a bunch of times and it's not because your kids are coming to get you.

Speaker 11 It's just you're waking up like in a hot sweat, for example. That could be the mattress and not just you.
Okay.

Speaker 12 If you're waking up achy or sore, though, Kyra, does that always mean it's time to throw out your mattress? Because I have had some soreness specifically in my shoulders, my kind of C-spine area.

Speaker 12 So I'm wondering if it could be my mattress.

Speaker 11 Yeah, not always. It's not always your mattress.
And I know that you're a stomach sleeper.

Speaker 11 So you're being achy on your neck doesn't really surprise me, but that could also tell me that it might just be your pillow, which is the first thing you probably should look at is your pillows.

Speaker 11 Why is that? Because a pillow can really make or break your mattress experience.

Speaker 11 If you're not being propped up in the right areas, depending on how you sleep, it could cause things like achy joints, a sore neck, a sore shoulder, sore hips. All right.
So that's super helpful.

Speaker 11 If you are having trouble on your mattress, you might want to just go out and get a different set of pillows, which is a much lower cost than buying a mattress. So much cheaper.

Speaker 12 Lower barrier to entry. We also have guides on Wirecutter about pillows, and I think we'll probably do a pillow episode at some point on the show.

Speaker 12 But for now, we're going to focus on whether or not the mattress is the issue.

Speaker 11 Right. So, Kyra, how do you know if you can salvage your mattress?

Speaker 11 If you're feeling uncomfortable and you've ruled out the pillow situation, how do you know if you can bring the mattress back to a place that you would feel comfortable on it?

Speaker 11 If you feel like your mattress is too firm, like you're waking up and maybe your shoulders, your hips are really achy, that might just mean that your mattress isn't plush enough to let those heavier parts of your body really sink in and let your spine be aligned.

Speaker 11 So for that, I would just get a topper. There are all different kinds too.
You can get a memory foam, down, down alternative, or latex.

Speaker 11 And this really will depend on how you like to sleep and what your preference is for the feel, but any of these could make your mattress cushier.

Speaker 12 Can you just run through quickly what you might expect each of these types of toppers to feel like?

Speaker 11 Yeah, totally. So memory foam kind of sucks you in.
If you've ever sat on a tempur-pedic mattress, that is a classic memory foam feel. And then down is more, it's lighter, it's fluffier.

Speaker 11 If you've ever had like a down comforter or even down pillows, you kind of know what that feels like. It's fluffy and it's airy, but it's definitely not as supportive.

Speaker 11 And then down alternative feels pretty much exactly like down. It just doesn't have natural materials in it.
And then latex is another foam alternative.

Speaker 11 It feels like memory foam, but it doesn't necessarily suck you in. It's more bouncier and it's lighter and also kind of airier.
Okay, great. What about if a mattress is too soft?

Speaker 11 Yeah, that one's harder. It's really hard to go from soft to firm.
So in that case, you probably just need to get a new mattress. Oh, okay.
All right. What about dents or indents?

Speaker 11 Because that sometimes happens in mattresses. Yeah, that one is another unfixable issue.
If it gets to that point, you can't really, like you can't unfold the paper or whatever.

Speaker 11 I don't know what they're saying is, but like you just can't undo it. So you're also going to have to get a new mattress.
Okay.

Speaker 11 But if you order from some places, check the warranty first before you go out and buy a new one because some mattress companies do cover that.

Speaker 12 So in general, though, how long should your mattress last? Because when I knew we were going to do this episode, I was thinking about when I got my mattress. I don't think there's any issue.

Speaker 12 Still feels very solid and intact, but I was thinking about how long I've had it. It's been a while.

Speaker 11 I would say it depends on what kind of mattress you're getting. Roughly, I would expect most mattresses to last between seven and 10 years, though.

Speaker 11 I used to edit mattress coverage a while ago, and I remember having conversations with people at that time where a lot of these sort of newer mattress companies haven't haven't even been around for 10 years.

Speaker 11 So it's a little hard to say with some of these mattresses. Like we don't actually have evidence of how long they last, but 10 years is probably a pretty safe bet.

Speaker 11 Yeah, especially if you're getting something like foam.

Speaker 11 I know like many mattress companies who specialize in foam mattresses are so new and there's so much competition, but all foam is pretty much made the same at this point.

Speaker 11 And it has a long record of being very durable.

Speaker 12 So when it kind of runs its course, what's going to happen? Is the foam itself going to degrade or will it have indented just to a point that's not recoverable?

Speaker 11 Yeah, you'll definitely feel it. It'll start sloping and your body will just leave its imprint in the mattress.

Speaker 11 So, for example, if you have a mattress that comes with a pillowtop, like my favorite, the Stearns and Foster, you're just going to want to be extra vigilant because those tend to sag faster than a classic memory foam.

Speaker 11 And a pillowtop, what is that? That's a super plush top? Yeah, a pillowtop has that billowy pillow look to it that makes it so soft and cushy.

Speaker 11 So the mattresses are built really well, but if you're just not rotating it like you should be or you're not sleeping on it evenly, then it will start to form a depression sooner.

Speaker 11 A hack that a physical therapist once told me about that issue with the top getting soft is that she tends to buy firmer mattresses and just buys toppers every few years.

Speaker 11 So that is also a strategy, like if you're really trying to buy a bed that you can use for years and years and years, but it does require a little bit more mental effort to find a topper you'll like.

Speaker 11 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 11 So Kyra, even if you've had a mattress for a long time like let's say it's over 10 years i've heard of people having a mattress for 20 or 25 years if you're still sleeping comfortably on that mattress you can just keep it right there's not a reason you should be getting a new mattress totally if it ain't broke don't fix it so sleep hygiene 101 when it comes to mattresses If you're waking up achy, you're waking up sore, you're waking up with pain, could be your mattress, could also be your pillow.

Speaker 12 If you're finding your mattress is too hard, consider a mattress topper. If it's too soft, it's harder to problem solve.
In that case, you might want to explore getting a new mattress.

Speaker 12 And that's what we're going to talk about more after the break.

Speaker 11 That's right. We're also going to talk about what you kind of need to spend to get a decent mattress.

Speaker 11 And we're going to walk through the different types because there's a lot of different options out there. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 Upgrade today by visiting dell.com/slash deals.

Speaker 13 Wayfair loves fall. The crisp air, the cool nights, and of course, the seasonal lattes.

Speaker 13 And as your trusted destination for all things home, Wayfair's got everything you need to cosify your space, from comfy recliners to warm bedding and autumn decor.

Speaker 13 Wayfair even has espresso makers, so you can make that latte at home.

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Speaker 11 Welcome back, Kyra. This is my favorite part of this episode because we get to get real nerdy and wirecuttery in this part.

Speaker 11 We're going to really dig into the details of how to actually shop for a mattress, what people should pay attention to, what they can kind of ignore, and what you have to spend to get something good.

Speaker 12 This is a big purchase. Yeah.
Mattresses are expensive. Even inexpensive mattresses are expensive.

Speaker 11 And they're also big. They're big pieces in your home.
Absolutely.

Speaker 12 I was recently helping my parents move and they had to buy new beds and it seemed like there were some really expensive options, but also some quote-unquote cheap ones on Amazon.

Speaker 12 What kind of do you actually have to spend to get a good, durable mattress that'll last, I don't know, say a decade?

Speaker 11 I would say just generally, if you are willing to spend around $1,500 for a mattress, you're going to find something you'll like. For like a queen size.
For a queen size.

Speaker 11 And I always test queens because that's what most people in the country buy. So if you buy something, we have a guide on the site for mattresses that are about $500 or less for a queen.

Speaker 11 What's the sort of value difference between the $500 mattress and the $1,500 mattress? I mean, I told my partner to get one of our cheap mattress picks. It's the Zenus Cooling Swirl.

Speaker 11 It cost $3.50 at the time, and he's had it for nearly four years, and I think it's just as good as the day that he got it.

Speaker 11 So I think that those mattresses are fine, they're durable, and they can be really comfortable. But the cheap mattresses just tend to have a little less nuance.
They're not balanced.

Speaker 11 Sometimes they have a few more cons than pros, but I still think it's a great purchase if that's what you can afford.

Speaker 12 So a cheaper mattress might not have all the bells and whistles, but it'll do what you need it to do.

Speaker 11 Yeah. It's like a good tuna melt.

Speaker 11 You love a good tuna melt and they don't cost that much, but at the end of the day, it's not going to be like, I don't know, an amazing Italian sub with like a million ingredients on it and 10 different sauces.

Speaker 12 And balanced properly.

Speaker 11 That's right.

Speaker 12 So we're timing this episode, obviously, around President's Day Week. There are a lot of sales on things like mattresses.

Speaker 12 Should you ever pay full price for a mattress?

Speaker 11 You should never pay full price for anything. That's the answer that I want.
Whoa.

Speaker 11 Always haggle, always get a deal. But I would say definitely, definitely, definitely shop around during President's Day weekend because you will be getting good deals.

Speaker 11 There are other times of year when sales happen, though, right? Yeah, Memorial Day is a good one. And Black Friday now is great for mattresses, especially if you're going like the online route.

Speaker 11 Okay, Kyra. So I want to talk next about where people should think about shopping for a mattress.
Right now, there are so many choices.

Speaker 11 There's been this proliferation over the last 10 to 15 years of direct to consumer brands.

Speaker 11 And these are kind of the brands you see advertised on Instagram or, you know, you get little flyers in the mail.

Speaker 11 And I think one of the most popular for a while was Casper, but now there's a ton more. So you can buy a bed in a box, basically.
They ship it to your home and you unpack it.

Speaker 11 And then you can, of course, go the old school route and go to something like a mattress firm and try stuff out in person.

Speaker 11 You know, after testing so many mattresses, what do you think are the pros and cons of each of those approaches?

Speaker 11 I would say the pros of going in-store is that you can actually touch and lay down and feel the mattress, which is huge.

Speaker 11 I still think even if you want to buy online, you should go into a mattress store and try to find the model that you're interested in and try it out.

Speaker 11 Because no matter how many videos you watch or how many descriptions you read, it's really not going to tell you if you're going to like the mattress.

Speaker 11 But the con of that is that you actually have to take the time to go do that

Speaker 11 and you have to endure the awkward salespeople who stand over you and try to push you to buy something immediately. Yeah.
Hey, is anybody helping you? Right. Can you haggle inside of in-store place?

Speaker 11 Yes, you can always haggle. Okay, I cannot haggle.
Sean can. Maybe you can.

Speaker 11 Always, always, always haggle. Play them against each other.
They're always in competition. Somebody is trying to get you to buy that mattress, so you can use that to your advantage.

Speaker 11 For the pros of direct to consumer, it's great because it's easy and they always have really good return policies or free trial periods.

Speaker 11 But the con is that, again, like you just can't tell what you're actually buying until you get it.

Speaker 11 And then if you don't like it, it ends up in a landfill somewhere because you're returning the mattress and they're not going to sell it to somebody else.

Speaker 11 Ah, so is that like the dirty secret of this sort of mattress industry where you can return for 100 days or whatever, but that's what happens to those mattresses at the end of the day?

Speaker 11 Honestly, even if you go in store, they'll give you a basic return policy and a warranty.

Speaker 11 Most mattresses I've seen these days have 120 night sleep trial, which means if you don't like it after 120 nights, nights, you can still send it back if you went and bought it from the store.

Speaker 11 And they will usually give you at least a 10 year warranty. And this is both for direct to consumer and in-store shopping.

Speaker 11 You can send it back and they'll just throw it away and you buy a new one and it's terrible for the environment.

Speaker 12 If you do go into a store, what are you looking for?

Speaker 12 Because I usually throw myself back onto the mattress and wait for something magical to happen, but I don't actually know what I'm supposed to feel.

Speaker 11 Yeah, no, you're not going to levitate as soon as you find the mattress that you like. Unfortunately,

Speaker 11 yeah.

Speaker 11 No, it's a very boring process.

Speaker 11 But I would just recommend that people don't just, we call them a butt sit test when we're doing in-office testing, where people just kind of sit on the edge and bounce around and then they get up and walk to the next one.

Speaker 11 Please lay down on the mattress the way that you would lay down on it if you're trying to sleep at home, even if it's a little uncomfortable because you've got like a salesman breathing down your neck.

Speaker 11 That's the only way that you're going to tell how your body sits on the mattress.

Speaker 11 So, what about other things that you do when you're testing that you recommend people do when they are trying out a mattress?

Speaker 11 I always look at the motion isolation, which is, you know, like when you're sharing a bed with a partner and they get up and you can feel it on your side, it like jolts you around.

Speaker 11 So I will usually have somebody else sit on the bed or get up off and on the bed while I'm on it to test that. I also test the edge support, which is when you sit on the edge of the mattress.

Speaker 11 But this is really just to tell if, you know, if you're sitting on the edge of the bed to put on your socks or if your partner is pushing you to the edge of the bed in the middle of the night, you're you're not gonna fall off the bed right like a bad edge support just kind of you'll slide you'll slide right off and you can tell I lay down on my back on my stomach and on both of my sides and for me I'm trying to tell if my spine feels aligned in my side sleeping position because that's the position that I sleep in and that just means that you feel like your body is straight instead of if a mattress is too firm for me my hip feels like it's up in the air and my shoulders feel like they're pressed up against the mattress or if it's too soft then I feel like my lower lower body is just sinking too deep and I'm like slanted.

Speaker 11 Right, right. So, how long do I have to lie there? I usually take at least 10 minutes on a mattress.
So, that can be a pretty long process.

Speaker 11 When we have 12 mattresses in the office, sometimes it can take people up to two hours to test. And I've had one person who actually fell asleep on one, which is so cute.

Speaker 11 That's just napping on the job. Yeah,

Speaker 11 that was his favorite.

Speaker 12 So now I know the price point I'm looking for. I've decided how I want to buy my mattress in store or online.

Speaker 12 Now I want to know how am I meant to decide what type of mattress is going to be right for me? This is the part that is overwhelming. Yeah.

Speaker 11 I'm genuinely still kind of surprised sometimes in my two and a half years of doing this, just how people aren't really sure how they sleep. So what I always tell people is to assess yourself first.

Speaker 12 You've been bugging me to assess my sleep since the day I met you.

Speaker 11 Forever.

Speaker 11 This means you need to know how you sleep. Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, or like a mix of any or all of those?

Speaker 11 And then you need to look at how much you weigh, how tall you are, and how your weight sits on your body. So, for example, most of my weight is in my shoulders and my hips.

Speaker 11 So, those are the heaviest points that are going to be kind of dragging into the mattress. So, I'm really looking for a mattress that supports the heaviest parts of my body.

Speaker 11 Knowing your sleep position, understanding your weight, your height, all of these things, how does that help you get to deciding what type of mattress to get?

Speaker 11 Well, again, you have to go into a store and you have to try all the different types.

Speaker 11 But for example, when I go into a store and I'm on a memory foam mattress, which is really sinky, it really pulls you in.

Speaker 11 I know that I don't actually need that much support from a memory foam mattress because I don't want to sink in too deeply. And I know that I don't really like the feel of memory foam to begin with.

Speaker 11 So if I lay on a mattress, a memory foam mattress, and I feel like I'm getting sucked in and I can't move, it's really hard to shift positions, or I feel like, you know, my hips are too high up or too low, then I know that that's not the mattress for me.

Speaker 11 Is the firmness level of a mattress correlated to all of these factors, like the position you sleep in and your weight and all of that?

Speaker 11 Like, for instance, like I'm a stomach sleeper, so there's not a lot of pokey, bony parts poking into the mattress. Is like a firmer mattress better for somebody who's a stomach sleeper?

Speaker 11 Is there some easy kind of like cheat sheet? Yeah, that's a great question. I would say generally there is.

Speaker 11 So if you're a stomach sleeper, you do want a firmer mattress because your whole body is kind of pressing up against the mattress except for your shoulders and your face.

Speaker 11 So you really want a mattress that will support the lower half of your body. So you don't feel like you're arching your back when you sleep every night.

Speaker 11 For side sleepers, you want a softer mattress for the reasons that I already listed. You do have those pokey, bony parts sticking into the mattress.

Speaker 11 So you want to make sure that they're properly cushioned.

Speaker 11 and then for back sleepers you guys are the best you're really easy and you can pretty much sleep on any mattress that you like because you're flat

Speaker 11 let's talk about the different types then you've mentioned memory foam talk about that memory foam is polyurethane foam and this is the same material again that they use in car seats airplane seats and some pillows The entire mattress will only be made of foam.

Speaker 11 There will be nothing else. And they really feel like a slow, sinky feeling.
I kind of feel like I'm laying on quicksand when I, when I lay in one. Yeah, they're not my favorite.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 11 They really cradle and conform to your body, which people really like.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I think some people like that kind of like you're being hugged by your mattress and you're not going to move that much, right? That's kind of a big plus of them. Huge plus.
It's a very distinct.

Speaker 11 feeling and people really like it. And some mattresses that we recommend that are all foam are the Satva Lumen Leaf, the Lisa Original, and the Nova Form Comfort Grand from Costco is also great.

Speaker 12 So those might be for back sleepers.

Speaker 11 Totally.

Speaker 12 Maybe side sleepers as well.

Speaker 11 I actually think that it's more for stomach sleepers than side sleepers.

Speaker 12 Interesting.

Speaker 11 Yeah, because it's pretty firm. So you're going to feel supported and held up very well on a memory foam mattress.
So talk about hybrid then.

Speaker 11 So a hybrid has a mix of foam and springs, you know, those coily bits that make the mattress bouncier. And a hybrid is kind of just the best of both worlds.

Speaker 11 So maybe you don't want to feel like you're sinking all the way into the mattress.

Speaker 11 And maybe you want it to be a little bit easier to shift positions in the middle of the night, you know, like if you sleep on your stomach and your side.

Speaker 11 Hybrids are also good because they are the happy medium for people who might be sharing a mattress with somebody and you might be on opposite ends of what you like in a mattress and this will be a good compromise.

Speaker 11 They tend to cost a little bit more than an all-foam mattress because the springs cost more to construct. And so these mattresses are kind of like a Frankenstein, right?

Speaker 11 It's like the old school inner springs on the bottom and then the layer of foam on the top. Yeah.
Right. You're getting a little bit of bounce, but also a little bit of that foamy sink.

Speaker 11 Yeah, a little bit of that contouring. Right.
Some of the brands that we recommend are the Lisa Sapira hybrid and the Wink Bed, which I think you have. I do.
I have that mattress. I like it.

Speaker 11 I need a topper, honestly, but I do like the mattress. I think it just needs to be a little softer for me.

Speaker 12 Talk about Inner Spring a little bit. I think of those as like old school.

Speaker 11 Totally. Inner Spring, honestly, is a dying breed.
Most mattresses that I've recommended or even tested are not really classic Inner Springs.

Speaker 11 Like people think of Inner Springs as their grandma's mattress that was still flippable. Right.
Definitely not that.

Speaker 11 But I would say what qualifies an inner spring is a bed that really focuses on the spring system, not the foam. But they will still have foam on them.

Speaker 11 So for example, the Stearns and Foster is the mattress that I have loved over the years.

Speaker 11 Every time I'm in between testing, I will have the Stearns and Foster sent to my house so I can sleep on it. And these inner spring mattresses, are they bouncier than a hybrid mattress? They can be.

Speaker 11 Honestly, sometimes a hybrid and an inner spring is just really interchangeable. I think the wink bed, the one that you're sleeping on, they call it an inner spring.
Right. So it can be bouncier.

Speaker 11 Sometimes they can mute the bounciness with more foam, but it's really, it is going to be springier than your all-foam mattress. And I will say, I don't feel like it's super springy.

Speaker 11 Like it's not the bed that I remember as a child, like a trampoline where you're just like, woo!

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh, I never thought about that. Yeah, you used to get height.
Yeah, you used to get a lot of height. And I've seen my kids try to jump on my bed and they are not impressed with it.

Speaker 11 No, it's really a pretty, pretty dismal thing. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 11 Cause most inner springs now have the plush top, which means that it's still got a lot of squishy foam on the top, but it's still got that really bouncy supportive system at the bottom.

Speaker 11 So when you were talking about the hybrid mattress, you said that that can be a great compromise for sleep partners who have different sleep preferences. Maybe they sleep in different positions.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 Is that the only compromise? Like, I guess what I'm asking is how do you advise people who really have different sleep positions in a couple to buy a mattress?

Speaker 11 I'm going to sound like a broken record, but go to the mattress store together always.

Speaker 11 And you're probably going to end up with a hybrid.

Speaker 11 I would say also, if one of you tends to run hot and the other tends to run cold, maybe do the Scandinavian sleep method, which is when you guys both have your own comforters. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11 So you don't have to fight over the blanket. Right.
There are some brands that do split kings, meaning that you could order a bed that has different density on each side.

Speaker 11 So one side could be softer and the other side could be harder. Like, have you tested any of those? I haven't because most people don't end up getting that.
They are out there.

Speaker 11 And if you're interested, you know, look into it. But in my experience, they're really expensive.
And you could totally just get two twins and put them on the same bed frame, and it's the same thing.

Speaker 11 Or, like, just put them in different rooms, which is what I sometimes would like to do.

Speaker 12 All right, Kyra, before we let you go and get back to your co-host duties,

Speaker 12 we want to do just a rapid fire rundown of some common questions that I and we have about mattresses.

Speaker 11 Do you have to flip your mattress? Rarely. That's very old school.
Most mattresses can't even be flipped these days. You just have to rotate them once every six months.

Speaker 11 And by rotate, you mean like turn the head to the foot and the foot. Okay.
All right, great. Do you really need a mattress cover or a mattress protector? Yes.

Speaker 11 Please. So then you don't have to take everything off and vacuum the top and maybe who is vacuuming a mattress.

Speaker 11 Well, you could read our mattress cleaning guide and you could see that that is recommended. It is.
And if you don't have a mattress cover, you should be doing it. What is it?

Speaker 11 Like once every two months? Yeah, it's something ridiculous. Yeah.
Awful. So if you do have a mattress protector, then you don't have to do any of that.
You can just throw it in the washing machine.

Speaker 11 A lot of times you see cooling in the marketing for mattresses. Can a mattress actually cool you off? No, never.
You have to get one of those AC bed systems for that to work.

Speaker 11 Okay.

Speaker 11 But if they say that it has cooling properties, like a memory foam mattress that has copper infused in it, yeah, like the copper actually is good at conducting heat away from your body, but it's not going to make you feel cool in the mattress.

Speaker 11 Right. And if you have an issue with heat, like a memory foam probably isn't your jam anyways.
Totally.

Speaker 12 To recap, I think it really matters to assess what kind of sleeper you are. Side sleeper, stomach sleeper, back sleeper.

Speaker 12 It's really going to help lead you down a path to find the right material, whether it's memory foam, hybrid, inner spring that might work for you.

Speaker 12 And then the real thing that you really need to try and do begrudgingly sometimes is go to a store and sit on the mattresses, lie on them, lie like you do, you know, when you're falling asleep to really get a sense of whether it's going to work for you and or a partner.

Speaker 11 Right. Because it's a little bit hard to know if you just order something and it is delivered to your door, although you can do that if it's got a good warranty and a good return policy.

Speaker 12 But know that if you don't like it, it's fine, but you

Speaker 12 are sending the return to a landfill.

Speaker 11 Yeah, don't be hoodwinked into thinking that it's going to some good use or something after that.

Speaker 12 All right, Christine, what are you taking away from this?

Speaker 11 Well, now that Kyr's out of the room, we can speak freely.

Speaker 12 Yeah, we can finally speak freely.

Speaker 11 I am not in the market to buy a new mattress right now, and I like my mattress, but I think it's time for me to get a topper. That's already something I was thinking about.

Speaker 11 So I'm going to kind of poke around and figure out what kind of topper I want to make my mattress a little softer.

Speaker 12 I am taking away from this that... You probably don't need to pay full price for a mattress.
Like if you are a person who's in the market now or sometime soon, don't pay full price.

Speaker 12 Shop around on President's Day, shop around Memorial Day, shop around Black Friday, shop around, haggle.

Speaker 11 Yeah, we're always flagging the best deals on our deals page, too. So if you're looking for a mattress or a topper, pillows, bedding, we've got a lot of stuff there right now, I think.

Speaker 12 Also, assess what kind of sleeper you are. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Having that knowledge, being armed with that, has actually helped me figure out a pillow that works for me and it kind of helped me figure out my mattress.

Speaker 11 Yeah, I think that's great.

Speaker 12 And then finally, I think it's like

Speaker 12 find, scrape together $75,000 and get get a

Speaker 12 Hastings.

Speaker 11 That's it for us this week.

Speaker 12 We are going to be back with a brand new episode next week, and Kyra will be back in the hosting chair.

Speaker 12 If you want to find out more about Wirecutter's mattress coverage, if you want to check out the products, the brands, anything we recommended today, go to nytimes.com slash wirecutter or as ever, you can find a link in the show notes.

Speaker 11 Bye, Christine. Bye.

Speaker 12 The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Maddie Mazziello and Nick Pittman.

Speaker 12 Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia BaeTube, and Diane Wong.
Wirecutter's deputy publisher and interim general manager is Cliff Levy.

Speaker 12 Ben Fruman is Wire Cutter's editor-in-chief.

Speaker 11 I'm Kyra Blackwell. I'm Christine Sear Clissette.

Speaker 12 And I'm Rosie Guerin. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 11 That's like all the fibers I like to wear except the horse hair. Like, I don't have any horse hair clothing.

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