Ep 154 Ask The Erins (Again!)

October 15, 2024 1h 20m

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Five years ago, we asked you all to ask us anything, and you delivered. We answered dozens of listener questions, like how we first met, our favorite quarantinis, where we were in our career journeys, and so many more. But in the years since that first “ask us anything”, a lot has changed for both of us! So we’re coming back to you with the answers to more of your probing questions, like “what disease names would make good person names?”, “where are you in the world these days?”, “if you could have only one sandwich for the rest of your life, what would it be?” and a million more, ranging from serious to silly and everywhere in between. Tune in for a non-stop, self-indulgent Ask the Erins!

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Hi.

I'm Erin Welsh.

And I'm Erin Almond Updike.

And this is this podcast will kill you.

Unconventional style.

Yeah, it feels really weird, Erin.

We're very, it's very awkward.

It's very awkward.

We have not recorded in the same space since 2018.

18.

Yes.

Right before you left for Finland.

That was six years ago.

It was like the very beginning of season two was the last time that we were together in the same room.

It is very weird.

I feel like more nervous.

I know I'm like cold sweating.

I put on deodorant, but probably not enough.

Same.

It's going to be fun though.

And unconventional, A, because we are in the same place recording, but B, because this is not our typical episode format, in case you may have noticed from the title of this episode,

which we don't know what it is yet, but it's going to be something to the effect of ask the Aarons whatever it is you want to ask them.

And there are a lot of things you wanted to ask us.

Yeah.

A lot of, lot of things.

Which is thrilling.

Thank you so much to everybody who submitted your questions.

We read every single question.

Yep.

We are going to try our best to answer as many of them as we can today.

Yes.

Also, I just also want to say thank you so much for all of your little comments too.

They made our day.

Absolutely.

Our week, our month, my year, our year, lives,

everything.

It was amazing.

Yeah.

Thank you.

The last time we did this, the only time we did this was in 2019.

2019.

And I think it's safe to say a lot has happened then.

And we're going to get into all of that and all of your other questions.

But before we do that, it's quarantining time.

It's still quarantiny time, Aaron.

What are we calling this one?

Right now, we're drinking just non-alcoholic.

Non-alcoholic mezcal negronis.

They're a little bit weird, no lie.

We tell it like it is on this podcast.

We didn't come up with a name for them.

We're drinking a plusy burrita.

The errands?

Cheers.

Ah!

So I guess for the quarantini slash placeburita, the errands.

Drink what you like.

Drink whatever you like.

What's your favorite thing that you've been drinking lately?

What's your favorite quarantini that we've ever made, Aaron?

Me?

Yeah.

This is a hard one.

Aaron, I feel like my memory in part because of the podcast is so overloaded that I cannot remember anything.

There was a really good peach whiskey one that I made recently.

Oh, yeah.

But I think my go-to answer for that is the gonorrhea one.

Burning Love.

Burning Love, that's my go-to too.

Yeah.

I mean, so good.

It's good.

Okay.

It's great.

Have a spicy Marg.

Yeah.

I don't think we have any other podcast business.

I mean,

the Us, our website exists and it's got some things on it like bookshop.org affiliate account, our Goodreads list,

all of our transcripts.

It's got sources for each and every one of our episodes, links to music by Blood Mobile,

Patreon.

Did I already say merch?

We've got some pretty cool merch.

Pretty great merch.

Probably more coming out soon.

So check it.

Check it.

Well, shall we get into some listener questions?

Let's do it.

Let's take a quick break and then

get started.

So we have our little listie here.

So we're gonna, we're just gonna read through our little listie, shall we?

Yeah, let's do it.

Megan and Audrey, and several other people, this isn't a real question because we just combined a whole bunch of them.

They would like to know personal life updates, Aaron.

Aaron.

Five years ago, it was 2019.

You weren't living here where we are in your beautiful house.

So tell us about your life.

Let's see.

Okay.

I'm going to try to be succinct because I could talk about all, I could talk about all these questions at great length.

But in 2019, I quit my postdoc in Finland.

And, you know, academia just wasn't for me, bottom line.

And then I moved back to the U.S.

I moved to Chicago initially.

And then when COVID hit, I drove out to Colorado to meet up with a friend from grad school, a longtime friend from grad school.

And then basically moved to Denver.

And now we're married.

You guys also, they they are meant to be together.

That's what I'm going to say.

Okay.

It's a beautiful love story and we love it so much.

We love you, John.

Love you, John.

Yes.

So now we've been in Denver since, well, John's been in Denver since 2020.

I've moved fully the year after and now we have a dog whose toenails you're probably hearing click on the floor of our sunroom.

Yep.

He's great.

Yay.

Yeah.

Yay.

What about you, Erin?

A lot has happened for you.

A lot has happened for for me as well.

Let's see.

I don't remember exactly when our first Ask the Erens came out.

I want to say it was summer.

Summer.

Okay.

So in summer of 2019 is when I had my first kid.

So I don't know if I had one yet when we recorded.

I don't know if you did.

In any case, he's still here with us.

And now he's a giant kid, not a baby.

And

then

I finished med school.

We moved from Illinois back to San Diego.

Thrilled to be back there.

there.

I finished my whole residency, which is

wild that that much time has passed.

And then I had another kid

a while back now.

He's, again, a toddler and no longer a baby.

And yeah, that's like a short version of my life updates.

It's great.

It's great, right?

I love it.

Yeah.

Finished med school, finished residency, had two kids.

Podcast.

Yeah.

Podcast.

All right.

Thanks for the question.

Yeah.

What's next?

Okay, so we have a question from Kashina, Mackenzie, Maddie, Ruby, Chelsea, and others.

We love how many of the questions were like very similar because we were like, okay,

you do want to know some things about us.

Okay, I'm just going to read one of these questions.

It seems like it's been years since we've heard what you've both been up to professionally.

Are either of you engaged in any research, taking breaks, working in your chosen fields?

And in the same vein, what are your hopes for the the future academically or professionally?

Oh, I like that.

That's a good question.

Okay, Aaron.

Any questions?

Let me start.

Oh, I have to start.

You don't have to, but.

So I just finished my residency, which means I'm done with all of the training part of my medical career.

And I am starting in clinical practice and family medicine in like the next month or so.

And then I'm doing the podcast.

And that is, that's, that's the job right now.

And I'm hoping to be able to keep doing both um so far so good yeah so far so great yeah aaron so i now my i guess my full-time job i'm not doing any research anymore any academia anymore at all i'm doing podcasts full-time since 2019.

yeah what a beautiful year that was that's great and hopes for the future academically or professionally i mean honestly i think we just want to keep this podcast going as long as we possibly can yeah we love making it and i think that we maybe maybe I'm jumping ahead and there is a question for like, how long do you think this podcast can keep going?

But every year, the list grows longer and longer.

Thanks in large part also to listeners who write in and say, hey, can you cover this?

Hey, can you cover that?

So I really just want to keep being able to do science communication forever and always.

Yeah, we really love getting to make this.

Yeah.

That's a big part of our current and future career.

Yes.

Okay.

I love this next question.

Catherine S.

and Jackie.

Jackie.

Love you.

They asked kind of similar questions.

Did a certain person in your life inspire you to follow the science path or were you always drawn to it even as a little kid?

I think I was always drawn to it.

I mean, it kind of went from medical to biology at different points.

I watched Beekman's World growing up.

Oh my God, I forgot about that show.

I totally watched that show.

I loved Beacon's World.

And like a lot of Bill Nye?

Bill Nye.

I had like a vet kit and like a doctor kit and everything.

And I would pretend to like, you know, treat my dogs and stuff.

But no, I think even in high school, I was drawn to the field of science and biology in particular.

And I don't know if it was like great teachers or just the idea of understanding how the world works around us.

But yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, same.

I've always been a science nerd.

Yeah.

Um, I'm gonna, my friend, good friend Jackie that I've been friends with since middle school asked me these questions.

So I'm gonna shout out to my roots of just how nerdy we were in high school during our AP bio class, which like, first of all, you're taking AP bio, you're probably a nerd.

Love it.

And we were.

And we used to have study groups together and we wanted to make t-shirts that said hydrogen bonds rule the world because that's how amazed I was when I learned about hydrogen bonds.

Like still to this day, when I think about them, I get very excited.

Can we make those t-shirts?

That would be awesome, actually.

It's been a dream since high school.

So,

yeah, have always been a science nerd for sure.

Love that.

This next question kind of follows up with that.

So, like, we talked about what science nerds we were as kids, but Aisha, Jess, Nicole, Kelly, Daisy, and Maggie want to know if there was a particular moment or experience in our lives that made us realize that we wanted to pursue the careers that we have.

Yeah.

I totally have that.

So I was definitely like a science nerd from the beginning, went into undergrad wanting to do aquatic biology, marine biology,

fully expected I was going to be a shark biologist.

I was like all in.

And it was a particular class.

I feel like I've told this story so many times.

Sorry if it's boring at this point.

But a particular class on the ecology of parasites that 100% rocked my world and made me interested in the field of diseases and epidemiology.

And that is what led me down the path eventually of master's in public health and an MD PhD.

And everything that has come of that has been that class.

Yeah.

You?

Ecology of parasites.

It was such a good class.

If you're at UCSB and it's still there, please take it.

had wanted to go into nursing initially when I was an undergrad.

And then I had to take as part of that,

an intro to microbiology course.

And it was at 8 a.m.

Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

And I had to ride my bike up this hill, which is probably not that big of a hill because it was like central Kentucky.

But I found myself not sleeping in and actually wanting to go to this class and not missing a class, which I was.

sometimes known to do with other classes.

And so I switched my major to biology being like, I want to know more about the world of microbiology.

I want to know all about these diseases.

And then I also just started to become more interested in the human impact when I joined a plague lab studying Yersinia pestis.

And I wanted this big picture view of like, but how has plague affected things on a landscape scale and then throughout history?

And then I, that, that led me into my master's in epidemiology.

And that's when I was like, but what about the environment?

What is that?

What role does that play?

And that is when I did disease ecology.

And then, of course, in later in our, which we'll get to talk probably a little bit more about later, but at the end of our PhDs, we were like, science communication.

Like, how can we actually talk about this stuff in a way that is fun for us?

Yeah.

I feel like that gets into another question that several of you asked, including Jess, Nicole, and Kelly, which was like, what was the most pivotal moment of your academic or professional careers and why?

And I feel like Aaron, yours is like really good.

Is it?

I wonder if we're thinking of the same pivotal moment.

Okay.

okay, your pivotal moment changed both of our careers.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

100%.

Aaron has changed our lives.

Well, no.

Yes.

It was, okay, so in November of 2018, I moved to Finland to start my postdoc.

And I really enjoyed the work there.

I liked the research.

My postdoc advisor was phenomenal, really wonderful person.

But I had gone back in February, a few months later, to Texas to go to my friend's wedding.

And I had such a great time and like hanging out and meeting up with people that I hadn't like, you know, been around for a number of years.

And I was getting on the plane back to Finland and I was thinking to myself, what am I going back to?

And I loved the, like I was intrigued by the research.

I thought it was fascinating, but it was the constant sort of cycle of writing grants, writing papers, analyzing the data, always having to get that, you know, get that thing in, having all of a million deadlines.

And I just did not connect with that at all.

And I thought there's got to be something else.

I can't do this forever.

And so I quit my postdoc and I was like, okay.

I'll do the podcast in the meantime for like a little bit and then I'll find something else.

And then that has now been five years.

Yeah.

I feel like, I mean, when we decided to make this podcast in 2017, we did not ever anticipate that it could become our careers, but there was a point at which, and it was during this time when you were like, I don't really want to be doing this.

Could we make this podcast something that is viable as our careers?

And at the same time, I was still in medical school

and knowing that things were only going to get busier.

And I was like, I want to keep making this podcast but i can't do it

the way that we've been doing it because it was just too much of a burden for both of us to keep doing what we were doing and so by you then deciding to take that leap of quitting your like stable real academic job and do becoming the podcast full-time, it has allowed for this podcast to still exist.

So it has literally changed both of our lives for the better.

Like it's phenomenal.

And I, it's, ugh.

It is, it is, I will say, like, it is still surreal to me every single time that like, this is what we get to do.

I know.

It is great.

It is the best thing.

And like, you know, any job is a job, right?

I'm not saying that like every day is wonderful and I'm never annoyed at having to take quarantini pictures or whatever it is, but it is the, it's like finding that thing that I connect with and I am able to feel fulfilled about has been,

it's been an incredible experience.

I love it.

And also,

my friend Katie was the one whose wedding I went to in February of 2019.

And if you listen to our lactose intolerance,

she provided the firsthand account, which is still one of my all-time favorites.

One of the best firsthand accounts that we have.

Such a great storyteller.

It's amazing.

Oh, I love it.

Be honest.

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Okay, so I love this next question because I feel like it piggybacks onto that.

And I want to know your answer to this too, especially, Erin.

So Daisy asked, do you currently have the career you thought you'd have when you first applied to college?

Oh my God.

Like not, I didn't, no, absolutely not.

Like short answer, nope.

What did you think you wanted to be when you went into college?

In college, I wanted to be a shark biologist.

Right.

Okay.

That was like day one.

Yeah.

100%.

Shark biologist.

At least as much as I can remember.

Like I don't remember if there was any other specifics of like, no, I wanted to study sharks.

I wanted to be a shark biologist.

Wow.

So this is not what I expected to be doing.

I specifically told my mother after freshman year that I would never go to med school.

So of course I didn't need to take all three quarters of OCHAM.

So I took a summer course instead.

And she was like, okay.

And I was like, I'm never going to grad school.

I'm never, I thought I was never going to go to grad school and be a shark biologist.

I didn't know what I was doing, but I definitely thought I would never go to med school.

And now, like, I am, I am done with residencies.

You're an MD, your doctor, doctor.

Yes.

MD, PhD.

So, no, I, I, I do not have the job that I expected, and I'm very happy about that.

Yeah.

What about you?

Uh, no, no, I mean, I didn't know science communication existed until after we were doing the podcast for a year.

Yeah.

No, I, when I, I remember when I applied to the University of Kentucky for undergrad, which is where I ended up going, I put in my major as a double major of anthropology and English.

Oh, wow.

Right.

That's even different than nursing, you know?

And then I got there and I was like, oh, okay, maybe that's not, I want to do nursing.

I don't, I don't know.

You know, I was 18.

Like, how do you, how are you supposed to choose your entire life at 18?

But Erin, we're going to have a full circle moment.

I'm going to skip like a million pages ahead and ask you the question that I want to ask you.

That someone else, let me see who asked it so I can shout out you to say thank you.

Sheila, thanks for asking.

You said that you were an English major when you first started, so you always knew that you were going to write a book.

So, when are you going to release your book, Erin?

I have to like write one first and I have to write a book proposal first.

Yeah, it's been floating around in my mind for a really long time.

I have said this for years

to people, to friends.

I do really want to do that, and I just need to actually do it.

So, if anyone has any tips for how to actually do that and accomplish that, and you know, let me know.

We can't wait to read it.

Uh, yeah, I don't know what it's going to be about yet.

Preons.

Would everyone read a book about prions?

I would, I'd love to.

Thanks.

Done.

Who's next?

Who is next?

Sophie Henry.

Hi, Sophie.

So Sophie asks, what is the best piece of advice that either or both of you have received in going to grad school, med school, or working in science in general?

Okay, I have now co-opted this and we have like put it into our presentations, which is don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Yeah, that's a really good one.

And also, I actually think that we stole this or I stole this from Brian Allen, our PhD advisor, because he would, whenever we were like stressing about grants or papers or whatever, he would be like, just put it down and then we can work on it.

Just having something down, it doesn't have to be perfect.

Like, don't wordsmith till the end of time.

Right.

Just get started.

Yeah.

I don't know if this is specific to

like grad school or anything, but I know, and I think that this advice came from a friend that it is okay to change your mind.

Personally and professionally, I think I've changed my mind about almost everything everything that at some point I was like, absolutely not or absolutely always.

And I've like 100% changed my mind on things.

And I think that's a part of growth and it is okay.

It is.

And I think that's really important in the specific context, not just like personal context, you know, life context, but in career as well.

If you're, if you're like, I don't know.

I'm not sure why I started this in the first place.

Don't be afraid to explore other options.

Right.

And to be, even if you're like, oh, but I wanted to do this thing since I was a kid.

It's going to change your mind.

To not want to do that anymore.

You were a kid.

Yeah.

Well, and I think what's so awesome is that like all of the things that you have done up until whatever point you decide to change your mind are still going to be valuable things.

100%.

Like they're just going to maybe be applied in a different context.

So yeah.

I love that question.

Well, that's really similar to Carrie's question, which I think a number of other people asked too, which is what advice would you give to your undergrad self?

I mean, I think same thing, like, don't be afraid to change your mind is a great, is a great piece of advice for that.

But also, this is like such a boring thing.

And I would not have taken it because I know I received this advice a lot of the time, but never took it, which was, oh my gosh, work on your time management skills.

You don't have to be studying all night long all the time if you actually like, you know, block off times in your in your day.

I never, ever did that until doing the podcast.

yeah yeah no i mean i still don't do that i'm still like very bad at it and a chronic procrastinator so i could probably be better about that i think i would give a similar advice to the idea that like you don't you it's okay to change your mind and like you don't have to panic every time that you don't know what's coming next right i spent i think a lot of time panicking.

I still do.

Oh, yeah.

When it's like you don't know, like you know that something's about to change, but you don't know how it's going to go.

That's that is life.

It's life.

And it's okay.

And it's okay that it's scary, but you don't have to panic every time.

Erin, there are many different pathways and futures that can sort of like intersect.

And it's not like you're shutting a door forever.

Yeah.

That's so true.

Oh my gosh.

Profound, Erin.

Profound.

Erin, I have a question for you.

Actually, I don't, but it's from Jess and Kelly.

Okay.

If you weren't science communicators slash doctor,

what other career would you be interested in exploring?

Can I still say shark biologist?

Okay, but like what else right now?

Do you want to be a shark biologist right now?

I mean, there are days when I wonder why did I ever leave marine biology.

Yeah.

That's fair.

Yeah.

There were more days like that when I lived in Illinois.

But

there are honestly so many jobs that I think are fascinating that like whenever I learn about a new job, I'm like, wow, I didn't even like consider that as a career path.

That could be such a cool job.

But I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.

I know.

Yeah.

What about you, Erin?

I have always loved the idea of like working in a used bookstore and creating curated recommendations for people.

But also there are, it's just like so many things, right?

Like you, you watch, I love going on, like some of the Reddits that I love are people who are amazing at crafts.

whether it's crochet or knitting or ceramics or woodworking.

And I'm, I just, I'm like, I wish that I had spent, I guess I could still do it, but I wish I had spent more time, you know, doing this at an earlier age to experiment like what I liked, what I didn't like, et cetera.

I don't know.

I feel like there are so many things out there.

And the more that I learn, the more I'm like, wow, that could be a really cool thing to explore.

Yeah, there's like, there's so much out there.

Okay, I love this question so much, Erin, especially because it comes from Sloan,

who's been listening to us since middle school and is now in college.

So we are old in a way that I love.

Yes.

I'm thrilled by it.

But they asked, how have you felt like your views on infections and everything that we've covered have shifted since the start of this podcast?

And really, how does this podcast inform how we go about our own lives?

And other people have asked similar questions.

Yeah.

How do I like encapsulate everything?

It's, it's a really great question because I think it, it is

something that we don't necessarily always do is like self-reflect on

how can I put myself in the mindset of the person I was before starting the podcast and what I knew about infections and the history of disease and so on.

But I think the bottom line for me is empathy.

And realizing that so, like these diseases are not just diseases and they're not just like a timeline of events.

It is people.

Yeah.

And that a lot of the way that we learn about disease, particularly as you get like more and more advanced in graduate degrees, it removes the actual humanity from any part of it.

And so I think doing this podcast has been a great exercise in the constant reminder of like these are diseases that are happening to people and who are living with these diseases.

Yeah.

I feel exactly the same, Erin.

And I feel like, especially getting to learn, you do such a wonderful job going over the history of everything that we cover.

She's going to cry.

And I, I really feel like that context is something that I always missed and I would not have gotten anywhere else in my training, in my life.

And so especially as like a physician, I feel so strongly that the context that doing this podcast provides like on a weekly basis has made me a better pro like healthcare provider.

It has made me a better human.

I think that it has, it just provides so much context of understanding

how horrible and terrible the world can be sometimes, and how that affects so many things.

Like everything is so much bigger than we realize if you look deep into the history of it.

And so, yeah, I think it's empathy all the way.

And it's not, like, that's not the answer I would have expected from, like, we're going to start a podcast called This Podcast Will Kill You About Disease.

Like, right.

It sounds like, oh, I wash my hands more.

Right.

Like, yeah, probably, but like, no, I do empathy.

It's empathy.

Yeah.

Oh, Maggie.

Thank you for this question.

It's a really relevant one.

Yep.

Do either of you ever experience imposter syndrome when you explain things on the podcast and get worried that maybe you're getting anything wrong and might get bad feedback?

If so, how do you handle that?

Yes.

Yeah, we, I won't speak for you, but I know we both.

You can.

Okay.

We both absolutely experience a lot of imposter syndrome.

And also just like, we try really, really, really hard to be as accurate as we can and to provide as much context and story as we can.

And we know that not only might we get things wrong, but there are going to be things that we leave out out of every single episode.

And so it's something that we're very conscious of, that like

there are things that we're going to leave out.

And so we just like, we just try our best.

And I think what we keep in mind is something that you said earlier, Erin, which is like, don't let perfection get in the way of good.

And so we try and think that by at least providing as much and as good of information as we can, we're doing something good by putting that information out there and worry less about what we might be leaving out or getting wrong.

Because the other thing is that if we get something wrong, you guys let us know, which is phenomenal.

And then we can correct it.

And yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if I have anything to add on that, but absolutely, I get, I get worried.

I get imposter syndrome.

And yeah, we just sort of like we do go into each episode very intentionally, wanting to like the amount of reading and research that we do that, that we then sort of narrow down to be like, okay, what do we present?

Right.

It is a very intentional choice.

And we don't always get it right.

Right.

Because we are limited with time as well and with just sort of like bandwidth and everything too.

But also because some of these concepts you need so many years to become an expert in.

And so I think that like we do kind of struggle with this balance sometime of being like, we are not experts, but we are telling you this information.

And so how can we make sure that we're giving you the most accurate information?

And that if you want to learn more, here are our sources.

Right.

100%.

Oh, Aaron, here's a fun one.

Ready?

Austin wants to know, what is your favorite funny story that happened because of the podcast?

Or related to the podcast?

Let's see.

I think that some of my funny stories related to the podcast are when I'm around someone who finds.

who's like, oh, I listened to this podcast, we'll kill you.

And they're like, wait, you did this podcast?

We'll kill you.

So that happened.

Man, two of my stories have weddings in them.

That happened at a wedding last year.

And we were talking about how well AI would be able to generate a description of the podcast.

And it was surprising.

It was terrifying, right?

Like, really good.

Yeah.

And someone at the table was like, Wait, that sounds familiar.

I know that podcast.

That's the only podcast episode I have ever listened to.

And I listened to it before

doing interviews to get me hyped.

And it was the episode about snake venom.

And I was like, this is the best thing ever.

It made me so happy.

I love it.

I love it so much.

Mine is a lot more awkward, I think.

That's classic.

Me.

One time I was at, so if you're, if you're listening, uh,

I want to know, I want to know if you remember this.

I was

love this.

I was at a Shake Shack, not like the brand Shake Shack, but this place called Shake Shack, which is up on the cliffs near Crono Damar.

And I was getting shakes.

We pulled in to get some milkshakes, and I was a little chilly.

So I went to the car to grab a sweater, but the only sweater that was in there was my husband's this podcast will kill you logo sweater.

And I don't usually wear our merch like in public, public because I'm so awkward.

But I was wearing it and then I was walking back from the car and someone walked past and said, Oh my god, I love that podcast.

Obviously, didn't know who I was, but I just panicked.

And I was like, I get the book and move.

And then I and I had my dog with me and I just kind of ran away.

I can see this perfectly in my mind's eye.

I just ran away.

So if that was you.

Hi.

I think about it like almost every week, about how terrible and awkward I was.

Yay!

Okay, next question.

Great question.

Hi, I'm Morgan Sung, host of Close All Tabs from KQED, where every week we reveal how the online world collides with everyday life.

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It actually really matters that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't.

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Okay, so we've got the next few questions.

Yeah.

We just took a little skim over, and they're kind of all similar

thematically.

And so it's kind of, we're going to, let's do one, two, three.

Boom, boom, boom, right?

Love it.

All right.

So Diego, Kaz, Patty, and Sarah all want to know various questions about our favorite diseases, the scariest diseases, the scariest hypothetical diseases,

and the most interesting type of infectious disease transmission.

Oh, yeah.

Which is a tough one.

What do you think, Erin?

Transmission, I think I would have to say vector-borne disease.

Yeah.

I mean, I spent six years of my life studying it and I do still find it fascinating.

I do too, especially just thinking about all of the pathogens that are adapted to multiple different hosts, like necessarily for transmission.

I find that just so fascinating, evolutionarily and ecologically.

Well, just like the trade-offs.

And like, I think this applies to just patterns of transmission.

Like what are the trade-offs between being super specific to one host versus being able to be transmitted to a wide variety of hosts?

Or what if vector born some vector borne diseases that are specifically adapted to one vector, one host?

Like there are so many different ways that disease can be transmitted and happen.

And it's fascinating to think of the evolutionary history behind that.

Yep, I agree.

In terms of most terrifying diseases, I still think, and this is maybe like not a fully fair question because this, I guess, is a hypothetical, but like could very much exist, will maybe someday is like the hypothetical disease from contagion, right?

Sure.

The movie contagion, where it was a pathogen that's transmitted by like airborne or droplet transmission.

So like easy to spread, has a very high mortality rate

and can be transmitted before somebody is symptomatic.

Right.

We have, we had said this long ago, I think in our influenza episode.

We talked about it in our Nipah virus episode.

And I think that with COVID, we really did get to kind of like witness that on a global scale.

And it's terrifying.

yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

So like that's like this hypothetical example.

Right.

In terms of some of the pathogens, I think that we've covered that are terrifying in a different way are the ones that are, you know, the ones we always talk about, like rabies, right?

Parasite manipulation of host behavior or pathogen manipulation of host behavior, where there is nothing that you can do.

Right.

I also still think prions

are very just not, not so much scary, but just like, but how?

Yeah.

It really does sort of like stretch the boundaries of what we consider to be infectious diseases or like, what is a disease that is contagious?

It's just, what is a pathogen?

Right.

I guess.

Like, like Tasmanian devils.

Like, what is a pathogen?

What is a cancer?

It's, oh, man.

Okay, now we have just some really fun ones.

Darcy wants to know, what are disease names that you think would be a beautiful person name?

Okay.

First one that came to mind was Yersinia.

Not on.

Yes.

Okay.

Here's another one.

What about Arisupolis?

Erisupilis could be actually, in the right context.

Tularemi.

I like Tularemi.

And you call them Tule.

I think that's cute.

Tule.

Oh, similarly, Alexis wanted to know what, if you had to have your last name be a disease, what disease would it be?

Your last name, which I feel like is a little different than like a first name.

Right.

I don't think I'd pick Thule.

Although that's a good one.

Yeah,

what else?

I can't think of any.

I'm just because we're put on the spot.

Honestly, I still am going to go with Aresipelis.

Aaron Arisipalis.

Yeah.

Kind of works.

Aaron Yersinia doesn't work.

No.

Aaron Pestis could work.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, good stuff.

Great stuff.

Okay.

these next few questions are also linked automatically.

All about books.

Which I am thrilled.

I'm thrilled about, even though right now I'm also having a little internal panic because I don't have like great

meetings listed in front of me to be like, what have I read?

Because Erin, I cannot remember.

I cannot remember.

But okay.

So Rhiannon wants to know about favorite or best books about microbes slash microbiology besides I Contain Multitudes, Ed Yang.

I mean, Erin, you have to answer this question because you know, I haven't had time to read a book

since at least before med school.

So that's really embarrassing to admit on the podcast, but there it is.

You know,

I don't know.

Like, so what I'm struggling with right now is the qualifier of books about microbes, microbiology.

I think just, what's your favorite science book?

Okay, I'm going to name two.

One's about microbes and one's about microbes.

Give it to me.

Okay.

The one about microbes is Spillover by David Kwaman.

Okay.

I read that before, I read that at some point during my PhD before COVID, obviously.

And I thought it was absolutely terrifying but enlightening in terms of like how it's the one, it's one health.

Right.

You know, and that framing was

still something that we think about every single day.

So important.

My favorite non-microbe science book is probably An Immense World by Ed Yong.

I think about this book all the time.

I think it is one of the most beautiful examples of science writing in not just like in the

sentence construction, but in how Ed Yong is able to convey information that is, he is able to not just be surface level, but also actually teach you something along the way while entertaining you.

You should see the sparkle in her eyes.

And if you haven't listened to the book club episode where Erin got to interview Ed Yong, you definitely need to listen.

It's just such a great book, and it really made me think about the world in a new way.

Well, similarly, Erin, of all the books that you've read, what in the last like five years?

Oh, she can't.

She can't pick a favorite.

Sorry, Ariana.

There's too many good ones.

Okay.

She's going to try.

Yeah.

literally when we were going through this list of questions, that question stuck out to me.

And I was like, okay, I have to go through what I have read.

And I can't find a favorite.

I have a really hard time picking favorites about anything.

But I would say I have two that I can remember in the last year or so that I've read that I've really loved.

One is Matrix by Lauren Groff.

Okay.

I loved it.

Check it out.

That's fiction.

And then nonfiction, I really liked a book about the Donner Party called The Indifferent Stars Above.

And I really appreciated how

sensitive the author was and how empathetic the author was with the story.

Cause you can really tell a Donner Party story that is like incredibly.

horrific.

Yeah.

And like very kind of voyeuristic or something like that, where you're just like gratuitous violence and everything.

And this, I really felt like he did such a great job of putting you in the mindset of what it must have been like to be there or what it might have been like.

Okay.

Love that.

If you're not following Aaron Welsh on Goodreads, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't write reviews.

Maybe I should.

I don't even rate most of the books.

Okay.

So.

Okay.

This next

question

is for me by Kristen, and it's about why I, Erin Welsh, do not like Richard Preston's books.

So I have read a few and I have found them somewhat helpful at times.

The thing that I don't like, and I'm going to call out just the hot zone in particular, and it might even be, like, let me just even be more, you know, I'll give more benefit of the doubt.

the copy that I have has literally no sources at the end of it.

And so I think that that is where it is there's any science book that is conveying information in a way that is supposed to be educational or informative should have sources, whether those sources are from conversations or from papers or from whatever.

So that's why I have a, you know, teeny tiny issue with that.

Yeah.

We're going to get

like a cease and desist letter or something.

Show me the sources.

Okay.

Now we're just going to go fully silly.

Nina, thank you.

I don't want to answer this question.

If you were starving and your only options were a sandwich prepared with unwashed hands or a delicious three-course meal, but every bite you took has a long hair in it,

which one would you pick?

Oh, absolutely.

No hesitation, three-course meal with hairs.

It would just be like eating a fish with like where you have to pick out the bones.

I don't eat.

I can't.

I don't like that.

I mean, it's more work.

It's also not the same as fish with bones because it's a hair from someone's head or body.

Okay, but like, you know,

I guess, okay, two questions.

What type of hair?

Every bite.

I mean, you can take giant bites and there's one hair.

But similarly, you're talking about unwashed hands.

Whose unwashed hands?

How unwashed?

Right.

When was the last washing and how dirty are and whose hand?

Like, is it my unwashed hands?

Is it my toddler's unwashed hands?

Is it, are we we talking full-soiled or just like lightly, mildly dusty?

Oh, I don't know.

This is a hard question.

Oh, not for me.

Three-course gourmet meal?

I don't.

Absolutely.

It wouldn't be gourmet.

Doesn't it say three-course gourmet?

Not with a hair and every bite.

That's what I'm saying.

You know, agree to disagree.

Yeah, okay.

Okay, Rachel and Alana want to know how much time it takes to prepare for an episode, finding the research, reading the articles and books and writing our summaries.

A lot.

And it varies a lot based on the episode.

Yeah.

So for some of the bigger topics that we've covered, like menopause, like IVF, like anything.

IVF was three episodes.

I think that took us like a month or more.

It did.

Yeah.

But I would say in general, yeah, a few solid days, like three to four solid days of reading

and writing as I'm i'm reading notes like so i'll like bullet point a lot of things and then it takes me usually a couple days to summarize yeah and then there's the whole day like i usually take a day of finding initial sources and then as i start to read and i'm like oh those citations look interesting i should go find those papers oh those citations and it's just like you do go down the rabbit hole yeah you do have to it is sometimes hard to be like that's enough we're gonna tell this story and not the whole story i remember when i was interviewing for residency programs some of them asked me like, oh, are you planning on still doing the podcast during residency?

Because obviously residency takes a lot of hours per week.

And I was like, oh, definitely.

And they were like, well, how many hours do you spend?

And I think I said, oh, I, I don't know, maybe 10 hours per week.

It was like such an underestimate.

Anyways,

yep, we survived it.

Yeah.

It's a lot, but it's also really, like, it's fun work.

It's a lot of work, but it's fun work.

Just getting to read like something and learn something new every week, which we didn't get to do in grad school.

I feel like it was very much in your field.

Right.

100%.

I love it.

Ooh.

Vivian wants to know, what is something that you learned while doing this podcast that pops up frequently in your mind?

And they provided their first answer.

I think about maggots all the time now.

Yes.

Oh, same.

I also share my top quality pre on facts at barbecues.

I want to go to your barbecue.

One of us.

Love those.

I think, honestly, the thing that happens every single day, and now I'm embarrassed for the second call out of An Immense World by Ed Yong, is that when I walk my dog, I genuinely, every single time he stops and sniffs for what, what feels like 10 minutes, one spot.

I'm like, but this is for him.

This is for him.

He's smelling much more than I could ever smell.

This is enrichment.

So I think that's probably the thing that I think about the most.

It is every single day.

Oh, I love that.

I feel like there's a lot of things that I think about a lot.

I think maybe the most, though, is me, like just the whole concept of and backstory behind things like hysteria.

Mm-hmm.

I think about that a lot.

I think about our endometriosis episode.

I think about how much the medical system has wronged people with the uterus.

Like I think about that.

And it infuriates me on a daily basis.

Wow.

Mine is, mine's like my dog sniffing an old turd.

Yours is like

misogyny and medicine over time.

Can I change my answer?

No, no, no.

Okay, Ruby wants to know if we have other hobbies.

Well, I guess the question was, what other hobbies do we have?

I have no hobbies.

Thank you.

Okay, then I'll ask the second question.

Is it weird going to the doctor?

No.

Are you a doctor who doesn't like to go to the doctor?

Yes.

Have you been that before becoming a doctor?

Yes.

I never liked doctors.

Do you think people who don't like doctors end up being doctors?

I don't know.

That's a fun question.

I am a terrible patient.

Yep.

Okay.

I have a question for you.

I'm just going with this now.

When you get a doctor as a patient, can you tell?

Not always.

Okay.

Yeah, no, not always.

Okay.

I've had that happen a lot.

I remember like first year of residency, I had a patient who was like a second or third year resident or something.

And I was talking with them about something for a really long time until they were like, oh, yeah, I'm in like whatever other specialty.

And I was like,

I can't, I don't know why you've just let me keep talking for so long.

But

okay, I love that.

Yeah.

I've always wondered, is it like, ah.

Yeah.

You must also be in the in club.

Yeah.

What about you, Erin?

You have hobbies.

I read.

That is my hobby.

My number one hobby is reading.

That's a good hobby, though.

And I garden in the summer when it's not a million degrees outside, which I feel like it has been in Denver for a bit of time.

Although I went, depending on when this episode comes out, it probably will be cool.

And people are like, why are you complaining?

It's perfect weather.

But no, gardening, reading,

you know, camping whenever we can, which is not very much.

That's basically it.

Reading is my number one hobby.

That's a really good hobby.

Does it count as a hobby?

Yeah, definitely.

Okay.

Yeah, that counts as a hobby.

I hang out with my family, but that doesn't count as a hobby.

That's just a hobby.

It's not.

It's part of life.

I like it.

It's not a hobby.

Okay.

I feel like a hobby.

I don't know.

Anyways.

Okay.

So this next question, I'm going to relate back to the question about what's it like to be a doctor, going to the doctor and so on and stuff like that.

Cause I feel like it has to deal with patient relationships.

Okay, cool.

Or just like in your, in your real life.

My real life?

In your real life.

Cassandra wants to know if you have encountered any anti-vaxxers in your personal or professional lives and how we respond to that.

100%.

I live in San Diego.

So definitely.

I think the thing, and again, I think that this is part of what the podcast has made me much better at,

is not only like explaining things.

And I think we got some questions later later on about explaining complicated things to people.

But

when I have patients, which I do very often who either don't want to get a vaccine or who have questions about a vaccine or about any other medicine that I'm about to recommend to them or thing that I'm going to tell them that they might not want to hear.

I think that doing this podcast has really made me have more empathy for understanding that everybody has a story about why they came to believe the thing that they came to believe.

Even if it is the exact opposite of what I believe.

And even if I think that I'm right or whatever.

And so I think that the way that I tend to approach that, especially in my professional life, because in my personal life,

I, I don't know,

maybe I approach it the same way, but especially in my professional life, I think I always try to come from a place of trying to understand where that person is coming from.

So do you have questions about this vaccine?

Like I'm going to bring up the flu shot.

I see that you haven't gotten your flu shot.

Do you have any questions about it?

And if they say no, I might move on.

Or if I think that maybe I've gotten in, I might ask them a question.

Have you ever gotten one before?

Have you had a bad reaction?

What have you heard about it?

Like most of the time I have found that just by engaging with people from a place of understanding and empathy rather than like a judgment of, oh my God, how have you never gotten your flu shot?

Don't you know you're putting people at risk or whatever or like fear-mongering, like never works.

But just meeting people where they're at and then knowing that, like, if you foster that kind of relationship, then you probably have an opportunity to talk to them about it again.

And it might take many times of talking with someone about a topic that they feel really strongly about before you feel like you're breaking down a wall or something.

But a lot of times you can get there, especially when it's someone who's just worried or has questions or is afraid and not like some people who just are never going to engage with you.

And that's okay.

There's some people who you just don't and I and I generally just don't.

Right.

Yeah.

I would say like, you know, the people that I interact with, which is not very many, I am, you know, and I acknowledge like many other people probably that I live in a bubble, right?

The people that I spend the most time with in my day-to-day life are.

on the same page when it comes to vaccines and public health and the importance of public health.

And during the times when I do interact with someone who is has mixed feelings or is strongly anti-vaccine, it's challenging.

It's challenging because it feels,

it feels like you're up against so much.

And I think that sometimes it is a struggle to be like, okay, how much energy do I have right now?

How much bandwidth do I have to try to convince this person?

And is it convincing this person or is it just answering their questions or asking them where they got their information?

Yeah.

And so relatives, I think this is one where it's like, okay, I hear you out.

I hear you out.

Are they receptive?

But knowing that sometimes they're not going to be.

Right.

And that's okay.

Like, it's okay for you to just say, I can't do this.

Right.

Yeah.

I feel like I have a lot of experience doing this because it's like part of my job when I'm being a doctor, right?

Like to try my best, like to have a conversation with someone.

And like, I know that vaccines are important for individual and public health.

So like, I'm going to, I'm going to have a conversation.

I'm going to try.

But like, I'm not about to have a fight with someone on the internet.

No, no, no.

So yeah, it's, it's picking your battles a little bit too.

100%.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Okay.

Well, this does, Erin, our next question from Pamela.

And I think Laura had a very similar question.

How do you go about breaking complex science and history into a language that a general audience can understand?

And do you have recommendations for people who might want to get into SciComm?

Yes.

Okay.

Breaking complex science and history into language that a general audience can understand.

You know, I think this is something that is so important and that is underprioritized in training, in grad school training.

Yeah.

In our experience.

You know, we went to grad school.

We graduated from grad school six years ago.

Yeah.

So long time.

But I think that there are many different things that you can practice.

And what we do is that when I am reading all this information, I'm thinking of the story that I want to tell.

Like, how do these pieces fit together?

How do I hook Aaron at the beginning and the rest of our listeners?

Like, what is the interesting thing I'm going to lead with?

And then how do I explain it after that?

Yeah.

One of the biggest problems that scientists run into is using jargon or overusing jargon, right?

And it's really easy to do that because that's what we've been trained in.

These overly complex concepts that we spent so much time learning, you know, you forget how you learn them.

And to have that and to be able to say something like,

hypoxia, I'll call out, I'll call out my husband, John.

That's a good example.

To say hypoxia, there's a lot of information that goes into that one word.

Right.

And it's a shortcut.

And so jargon and these, these complex concepts are shortcuts.

And we rely on those because they make communication more precise and clear in a scientific context.

But when it comes to chatting with like the general audience, it's not, it's not helpful.

Right.

And so when we're telling stories, you know, we have the almost like it's a, it's an advantage of we're coming across this information almost for the first time ourselves.

So when I'm reading about the history of hemochromatosis or norovirus or something like that, I've never read about this before, or if I had, it's not been as in-depth.

And so I'm learning it at the same time that I am thinking what I want to teach Aaron and putting it in an order that to me makes sense.

And so I think that's one of the biggest helpful things is just sort of keeping in check with myself, like, okay, how am I reframing this in my own mind?

And then how can I use that then to teach Aaron?

Yeah, I do a very similar thing.

And I also, I also use my husband a lot.

Yeah.

Thank you, Brett.

I will be like, can I just read this to you?

Can you tell me if this makes sense and like check in with someone?

So I think a lot of times it is practice, right?

It's like practicing your story, bouncing ideas off of someone to make sure that something is clear or if there's a better way that you can explain it and just making sure that we're not using jargon as much as possible, which I know I am guilty of a lot of times.

We all are.

It's like, and this is not something.

So, you know, this kind of answers the second question or goes into it.

So recommending, what would we recommend to scientists who wanted to get into SciComm-like podcasting is just like practicing at it and not being too worried that you get it wrong.

Right.

Like, cause it takes a long time, but you have to practice and you have to ask for feedback.

Right.

You can't just be like, go out in the world and start doing science communication and not want to and not get any feedback because you need to know what things you need to improve on and what things, what things are working, what things aren't working.

And also, you know, I think this is an advice that we give in workshops, which is just like be intentional about all that you do, about the words that you're using, about the questions that you're getting, and about what you like about different forms of SciComm.

You know, what works for you?

Who are your favorite creators?

Why are they your favorite creators?

What are your favorite stories?

Like, all of this is just being very intentional with your science communication.

Yeah.

Leah would like to know: are there any specific areas of epidemiological research that you're excited to see evolve and develop in the next few years or decades?

So many.

Yeah.

In medicine, and I think this is true in public health as well.

I think that we are really starting to understand how important

communication and feedback and like things other than just disease metrics and stuff is like the human side, I guess, of it all.

I think it's so important.

And so I think, I hope that that will continue to be something that people focus on and research and like the human impact of all of these different chronic and acute illnesses that we see and how people like live with them and experience them and things like that.

Yeah, I think that's a great, I think that's a great answer.

Online, the online, the internet is double-edged sword or like a many-edged sword.

But I feel like one of the things that has been great is the raising awareness and sharing experiences that I think has highlighted some of the ways that medicine and science has failed.

Right.

You know, failed patients, failed the general public, and how we can do better at that.

And I think that there are, you know, is it going to take time?

Yes.

But I think that there are people who are really invested in making this a better situation for everyone because we have to have everyone on the same page if we don't want this rise in anti-science.

I feel like I'm lecturing, but like, I feel very strongly.

Oh, also, can I say like universal healthcare in the U.S.?

Can I say that?

I really, really hope that that's a thing

that we see soon.

I would also like to add

AI and machine learning

and like how that's going to help just make sense of some of the patterns that we may not see or help things with drug discovery, which we've already talked about a few times on the podcast.

I think there's so much potential there.

Talk about double-edged sword, though.

We're going to have to be careful.

But has a lot of potential.

I know.

Like so much, so much potential.

And woof.

Okay.

With great technology comes great consequences.

Responsibility.

Yeah.

Oh, this question is just.

the best.

Okay.

I love this.

Andrea and Eloise have asked, and I'm going to quote word for word because Elise is very cute.

Yeah.

Quote, I listened to your podcast with my mom in my comfiest outfit.

A homemade TPWKY shirt we tie-dyed, my shark jammies and comfy socks.

I love that.

I want that outfit.

And I wanted to know what's your comfy outfit.

I'm not wearing it right now.

I'm wearing jeans.

Same.

I don't know why we chose this.

I'm sweating.

My comfiest outfit is just like, oh, actually, I have, I just popped into my head.

Give it to me.

This is so embarrassing.

I, full Kirkland gear.

Yes.

I have my Kirkland branded sweatpants, Kirkland signature.

They're the gray version.

They are the comfiest sweatpants I own.

I wear them as much as I possibly can.

And my Costco embroidered sweatshirt that when I bought in Costco, the, you know, the person who was scanning me and like doing the checkout was like, oh, yeah, everyone's buying these as white elephant gifts because who would want to own one of these?

And he's like, is that what you're buying this for?

And I was like, no, this one's for me.

Not sponsored.

No, just genuinely love Costco and Kirkland branded gear.

Oh my God.

That's my comfiest outfit.

That's a really good comfiest outfit.

I don't think I have one as specific.

I can't top that, Erin.

You don't have like a comfiest t-shirt.

Like, what is your go-to t-shirt?

I think my go-to, like the comfiest thing is when when I steal one of my husband's t-shirts.

Oh, for sure.

Those are always mine.

Yeah.

So when I steal one of his t-shirts and then like a pair of very loose.

Actually, I have this one pair of shorts that

I, they're like,

I could never wear them in anything remotely considered public because they're just like very, very small and very loose.

Are these the ones from your mom?

No.

I don't think so.

Okay.

No, I bought, I think I bought these like right before I delivered my first kid as like comfy clothes to wear postpartum and just like still wear them all the time.

Also several pairs of postpartum leggings.

Although, okay.

Anyways.

I love that question though.

It's a really good one.

Elsie would like to know, how many times has someone commented or spoken to us and said that they were diagnosed after listening to an episode?

You know, this has been one of the most incredible and I'll say it again, surreal moments of this podcast where we do get emails, we get messages where people say, I listened to this episode and it kind of resonated with me in terms of my symptoms.

So I went talked to a doctor and I have this condition.

Yeah.

So it's, it's, you know, it's several.

It's many people.

It is a surprising number of people.

And I feel like that is what has been so incredibly powerful about

it.

Like it breaks my heart and fills my heart at the exact same time because like I don't want anyone to have to live with all of these things that we cover and i cannot believe how thankful i am or maybe thankful is not the right word but how

grateful i am that we were able to help somebody in in that way of being able to like be empowered with more information and and things like that like it's really it's it's ugh

one of the best parts of the job that truly and when people get their flu shots for the first time after listening yes or like oh i need to check on my boosters right do i need my tea dap or so many of you who now are like having careers in public health and epidemiology and science and medicine.

Like I, we read every single one of those comments, you guys.

And it, I, we're not doing a good job of explaining how incredible and amazing it is.

I think we're, it's, it's overwhelming.

Yeah.

And we don't know how to articulate how

thank how thank you.

Yeah.

Like how it just, I, I still cannot believe it.

Yeah.

And it still feels, it feels not real.

Yeah.

Like there are times because Aaron and I record this,

well, most often in other places, and it's just us talking to each other.

Right.

It is just us talking to each other.

Right.

And occasionally we'll do, you know, seminars or keynotes or workshops or whatever.

And it's like, this is, you know, we have an audience here.

But for the most part, it still feels like it is just us.

And so then when we get these emails from people all around the world,

it is,

I don't, I don't have the words.

No, I don't think we're doing a good job articulating ourselves, but we are just so immensely grateful for every single one of you listening.

You don't understand the impact that you have had on our lives.

Yes.

So thank you.

We love it.

Okay.

Well, I'm going to cry.

So we should move on.

A fun one, Erin?

Sure.

Selena wants to know, what is a book or movie that you wish you could read or watch again for the first time?

I have an answer for this.

I have read books in my life.

I just haven't been able to read the last few years because I just read papers like for the podcast.

Anyways, Golden Compass.

Great.

Golden Compass and like that whole trilogy, I reread every few years because I just love it so much.

And if I could experience that, especially the third book, My Heart Being Ripped Out of My Body.

for the first time again, I would love that.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay.

I just had to take a full-on computer break to.

Worth it.

We want a true, honest answer.

You know, and I still, I still have like several.

I feel like I'm going to do the two first that I like.

I feel like Fingersmith and The Sparrow are great books.

Love those.

Wish I could read those again for the first time because of the way it evolved throughout the narrative evolved throughout the book.

But the other book that I think I wish I could read again for the first time because it was so surprising to me was Cloud Atlas.

So okay, I remember you telling me to to read this.

Yes.

Okay.

So what happened was when, and this might be now spoiling it for like the experience for people.

So if you don't want that, just skip ahead, like 30 seconds to a minute.

When I was in between my undergrad and my master's and I was having to like do a bunch of microscope work in this neuroscience lab, I would listen to books on CD back then.

Wow.

Uh-huh.

Depending yourself a a little bit.

Oh, yeah.

And

I picked out Cloud Atlas because the cover looked interesting.

That was it.

I knew nothing about it, didn't have good reads back then.

And I just popped in the first CD.

And then I got to the end of the first CD, you know, end of disc one.

Uh-huh.

Switched to disc two.

I put in disc two and I was like, oh, are you kidding me?

Somebody scratched it.

Smashed up the entire CD.

It was a total, it was a totally different narrator, totally different story.

And I was like, I don't understand what is going on here,

but I have nothing else.

So I'm just going to go with it.

And it turns out that that's the way the book is.

breaks off abruptly in between chapters.

And that made the entire experience, not going into it, knowing that made the entire experience so much more compelling and surprising.

And I, you know, how I hate spoilers more than anything, well, not more than anything else, but they are one of my biggest pet peeves on this earth.

Yeah.

Saying that there's a twist in a book is a spoiler.

I stand very firmly in that.

You know, that's my very strong position.

Yeah.

And so this has also made me realize how much not knowing something about a book or a movie or a TV show,

that's my preferred state of being before I, you know, partake in it.

Right.

It shapes the experience.

100%.

Yeah.

Oh, I agree.

So that was a very long answer, but I wanted to give context.

No, I agree.

I like that too.

When you don't know anything about what, what, what it's going to be like.

Yeah.

Erin.

Yeah.

I this is such a great question.

Kiara wants to know if we could have only one type of sandwich for the rest of our lives, what sandwich would you pick and why?

This is a very difficult question for me.

I know it's not hard for you.

Got it.

Got it in the back.

Go.

Italian sandwich with like provolone, you know, pickled, maybe like Jardanera on there, vinegar.

Just like cured meats, pickled vegetables, melted cheese.

I think that this only feels difficult to me because I feel like my answer is very boring and I feel like I should have a sexier answer.

But I think that my, if I go to my heart of hearts, my answer is the sandwich that I wanted so badly both times that I was pregnant and I was like terrified of Listeria.

So I wasn't eating any lunch meat.

And that is turkey sandwich on sourdough bread or like something similar with like, I don't know, a cheddar cheese, a lot of mayo.

I don't need bacon on it.

Some avocado would be great.

Some lettuce.

That's crunchy.

I don't care that much about tomatoes, plus or minus.

It's like a bore, it's a turkey sandwich, it's a boring turkey sandwich.

I mean, is an Italian sandwich sexy?

It feels like it.

Yeah.

With like giardonera and like some peppers, like, ooh, ooh, you know?

No, I love a turkey sandwich.

I, yeah, I do too.

Yeah.

Anyways.

I love this question because like we, we've been, we've been reviewing these questions as they've come in.

And so this, I feel like, has generated a lot of conversation outside of the podcast.

But it's been really fun.

It's another great answer.

Yeah.

I don't think anyone has said like a meatball sub yet.

No, what about grilled cheese?

Ooh.

I kind of forgot about grilled cheese.

Yeah.

That would be my kid's answer for sure.

Oh, but then there's PBJ.

Right.

I'm okay with not eating PBJ ever again.

I had so much during field work that I am okay.

Okay.

Well, thanks.

Shira would like to know, what is something interesting that each respective Aaron doesn't know about the other?

I don't know if we have anything.

I really don't know.

Like, especially something interesting.

That's the thing is, there's nothing interesting about me.

Like, I

own this many pairs of socks.

Like, you don't know how many pairs of socks I own, but that's not.

Listen, I know that you own way too many pairs of socks is what I know about you.

I love, I'm just shout out, darn.

Darn tubs is what I think.

Here's the thing is, like, we know everything there is to know about each other.

Let me tell you, Erin loves weird flavors like grape.

It's delicious.

So gross.

Nerd's ropes and nerds jelly beans.

Oh, God.

Nerd's jelly beans need to go off of the shelves because it is a problem.

I love them.

Yep.

Anyways, yeah.

Okay.

So next question.

Heather would like to know, oh, this is similar.

Speaking of nerds ropes.

Yes.

What desserts do you like?

And I would love it if we got to eat them at Mile High APIC conference.

Yes.

Okay.

I love this.

Erin, I feel like you have great answers for this i love almost every dessert yes um i love let's see i love cheesecake i love a chocolate dessert i love almost any kind of pie um i love cream pies i love fruit pies fruit pies a little less than cream pies if i'm being honest

chocolate pies um i you know what's funny is i don't love a cake but i will always eat a cake You don't love a cake?

Nope, I don't love a cake.

Are you including cheesecake in that?

No, cheesecake is separate.

Is cheesecake a cake?

Yes, but cheesecake is not cake.

It's not a cake.

Okay.

No, this is good.

Keep going.

Yeah, like I'm talking like a layer cake, like a cupcake cake, you know, that's a different than a cheesecake.

All right.

I love cookies.

There's not a dessert.

So those are your favorite desserts.

There's a long, listen, favorite is a strong word.

Like you were saying about books.

That's how I feel about dessert.

Dessert.

Here's a question.

I don't have a good reads for dessert.

But you could start.

I could, maybe.

All right.

If, if, is there a dessert where if you saw like a table of desserts, you would be like, no, I'm okay.

If, even if that's the only dessert on the table, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Like, is there a dessert that I would reject?

Right.

Or like a style of donut, we'll say, you know, like that kind of thing.

No, especially not donut.

I love donuts.

Okay.

I don't actually think that there is.

And it's to a fault.

Like, even maybe

the like cruddiest of like conference cookie, you know, the ones.

The ones that have like that are sugar cookies with the frosting or like chocolate chip just at like a you're at a conference at like a cruddy hotel yeah and they bring out the like tray of cookies and you can tell that they're like mealy

um you know

sure

you know what i'm talking about no you don't someone out there does that those might be the only thing that if i were super full i wouldn't eat is like a cookie okay that doesn't look like a good cookie okay but otherwise all those little like nah i would eat most desserts.

All right.

Yeah.

What is your favorite ice cream flavor?

If you could have one ice cream flavor, I love this.

It is my favorite type of question.

If you could have one ice cream flavor, one sandwich.

I don't think because here's the thing: you like these kind of hypothetical questions, and I don't.

It's not going to happen.

I know you'll be allowed to have whatever ice cream you want.

Stressful.

don't, I don't have an answer to that.

I love, I love ice cream so much

i can't pick one flavor okay

that's time to move

i'm stressed out

george would like to know are there any episodes that we'd like to revisit re-record add on to or go back and connect more explicitly to episodes that we recorded later

doozy of a question that's a doozy of a question and i think the short answer is yes yes i think it would be really interesting to approach well to to approach some of the diseases we've already covered, particularly in the earlier

seasons,

from a different perspective.

Yeah.

Like from more of a, either like from a, the, like I would like, I would love to do a germ theory episode where it's like, what are the actual steps instead of just like, and everyone knows germ theory happened then, you know?

Well, Erin, we could still do that.

Yeah, we really could.

Okay.

Like we didn't cover germ.

I mean, we've talked about germ theory, but.

But at the same time, I would also love to revisit in more depth some of the ones that we did because I feel like there are so many stories that we didn't tell.

Yeah.

I think that's true of so many.

I think that was what was fun about re kind of redoing influenza, our very first episode.

Right.

Um, because yeah, especially in our early season, we just know how much we left out

because we didn't know what we were doing.

We didn't know what we were doing.

But yeah, I think just.

different perspectives of things.

And I feel like we've been doing that more.

Yeah.

Like the history of the stethoscope or what is a fever stuff like that where it's like but let's take this and then spin it a little differently instead of just our usual format and i've been really having a good time with that be really fun yeah i agree

thank you for that great question

taryn would like to know what our favorite thing is that we have learned recently

I want to steal yours that you taught me earlier today.

Go ahead.

Did you know

that cows can swim?

Aaron just taught me this as we were reading through these questions and showed me a video of cows like jumping off of a boat, I guess.

Yeah, that was the most surprising part of it is that they leapt off of the boat with no hesitation.

A cow.

Like a regular looking cow.

A beautiful looking cow.

Yeah.

Swam to an island to graze.

It did not.

The way they went underwater and came back up.

Yeah.

Wow.

I did not.

Yeah, you were real nervous the first cow leap.

You're like, it's not.

And when the two leapt off at the same time, I was like, how's that going to go great they were fine yeah that is one of my favorite things yeah that's that that's what i was gonna do

yeah

um okay we have a couple of questions we're almost done we only have a couple questions left yes

um sydney and carol would both like to know

will we do any live shows or have we ever thought of going on tour or doing more seminars Oh, well, okay, definitely yes to the seminars and workshops, SciComm workshops.

We've been putting those together to to try to, you know, like basically take what we have learned throughout this bizarre podcast experience that was totally unexpected and help teach other people to work on their scicom skills.

So totally, absolutely seminars, et cetera.

Live show tour would be really fun.

Would you all want that?

Let us know.

It sounds really nerve-wracking.

It does sound nerve-wracking.

We're not performers.

Like we got into this because we're scientists.

Even right now, we're sweating and we're like just in a room with each other.

We're just nervous, sweating this whole entire time.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Yeah.

But we are, I think there was a question earlier about like, what's your hopes for the future?

And I am really excited.

We've been trying, working really hard on kind of like expanding all that we have learned about science communication into these like workshops and seminars that I'm like super excited about moving forward.

So yeah, if you have an organization or are are part of a university or whatever and you're interested,

shout out to our contact page on this podcast with kill you.com.

Yeah, we would love to come talk.

Totally.

Okay, we have one last question.

Oh my gosh.

I know.

This has been really fun.

I know.

Better than I expected, even though I'm nervous, sweating.

I'm nervous, sweating, but also it's just felt really good to like, I don't know,

to talk about some of these things, especially the three-course meal versus

that soil change shit that you wish.

Okay, last question.

Okay, last question comes from Casey, and it is, what are you most proud of about the podcast?

Every one of you listening.

Yeah.

100%.

I am.

Also, I sometimes feel ridiculous

just how proud I feel of this podcast.

Me too.

Like I love

so much that we are able to keep doing this.

And it is 100%

because of every person listening.

Absolutely.

It is, I mean, I, I, I can't, I can't even add any to that.

Like that is, it is all of you.

Yeah.

Can we be proud of you?

Yeah.

We are.

Huh?

We are.

Oh.

Wow.

This was fun, Erin.

This was really fun.

Yeah.

I loved it.

I love doing this podcast with you.

We do.

I do forever.

Erin, no, I have a second thing I'm really proud of.

Oh, actually, this is really important.

Oh, I know.

I know you do.

And I'm.

Can I guess what you were about to say?

Yeah.

That we're still really good friends throughout this whole thing.

We get to be best friends still.

Yeah.

That is that.

So when this was part of the conversation that we had when you decided to do this podcast full time.

Yes.

It's like we knew that that was going to be very stressful and a lot like, okay, now we're business partners.

Yeah.

And we knew that that was going to be really hard and stressful.

And we said, okay, if we are going to do this, our first priority has to be that we stay friends.

Yeah.

And we did.

We did.

We just spent how many days like together

non-stop.

And I still love you.

I still love you too.

We're so cute.

We should stop now.

Yeah.

All right.

I mean,

I don't know how to end this other than like thank you all again and sorry that we didn't get to every single question there were so many great ones thank you all again for so many of your questions thank you for all of the kind messages that you wrote we

yeah we said it means the world so much it really does and we also appreciate you like yeah just letting us keep doing this yeah writing to us about other things other than questions like we love getting emails from you messages from you i yeah yeah we should we need to we need to cut ourselves off we got it right now Wrap this up.

Thank you also to Blood Mobile for providing the music for this episode and every single one of our episodes.

Thank you to Liana Squolaci and Tom Breifogel for all the incredible audio mixing.

Couldn't do it without you.

Thank you to everyone at Exactly Right Network.

Thank you to you listeners.

We've said it a million times, but we're going to say it again.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And a special shout out as always to our patrons.

Your support means the world to us.

Totally.

Wow.

Well, until next time, wash your hands.

You filthy animals.

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Transcript

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