This is your brain off books

Speaker 1 Summer is a great time for reading. Our pal Jonquin just made a whole show about it over at Explain It To Me.

Speaker 2 And I guess that's the summer vibe.

Speaker 3 It's like easy, breezy, lesbian vampires. That's the vibe.
Ooh, breezy lesbian vampires.

Speaker 4 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 The only problem is Americans just don't care to read as much anymore. We made a whole show about that over here at Today Explained.

Speaker 2 When it comes to reading, one of the things that I've been hearing a lot from a lot of different faculty members is that students simply aren't doing the reading.

Speaker 1 But now we're bringing you a different show.

Speaker 1 Today, we're all about what we're doing instead of reading and what it's doing to our brains, our politics, and our potential to connect with each other now and in the future.

Speaker 5 Buckle up.

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Speaker 1 Take a look, it's in a book.

Speaker 5 Today, Explain

Speaker 1 Today, Explain from Vox here with Eric Levitz from Box to talk about what we're doing instead of reading.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, so at the same time that reading is going down, the amount of time that Americans are spending on screens is going steadily steadily up to record highs.

Speaker 2 This raises questions about how this really massive change is affecting the way that we think and the way that our culture and politics operate.

Speaker 1 And your piece focuses on something called orality.

Speaker 1 Help us understand what that is.

Speaker 2 So, some analysts who have tried to answer this question of what is all this doing to us

Speaker 2 have looked back to how the advent of literacy and the rise of book reading changed human consciousness and culture, and what human consciousness and culture were like before literacy and before reading.

Speaker 2 A lot of this analysis is really rooted in this 1982 book, Orality and Literacy, by the philosopher Walter Ong.

Speaker 2 In that book, Ong argues that there are a few defining traits of communication in oral societies.

Speaker 2 One is that in an oral world, information needs to be verbally repeated in order to survive. So you need to speak in a way that is going to be enjoyable and easy to repeat.

Speaker 2 And this leads to the heavy use of repetition in speech, the heavy use of formulaic lines, mnemonic devices, and epithets.

Speaker 8 The law of the harvest is to reap more than you sow. Red sky at night, sailors delight.
Early bird gets the worm. Ivan the terrible.
Alexander the Great.

Speaker 2 For example, in the Iliad, the Greek poet Homer, this is an oral epic,

Speaker 2 always refers to Achilles as swift-footed Achilles, a phrase that helps the listener simultaneously have an easier time remembering who Achilles is and also his sort of defining trait.

Speaker 9 So when they had assembled and were gathered together, swift-footed Achilles rose and spoke among them.

Speaker 2 Separately, in an oral society, communication always happens face-to-face or within and often within earshot, and to Aung, this imbues discourse with a combative spirit, as every sort of spoken statement kind of doubles as a bid for status or social affirmation because people are watching and you're looking someone else in the face.

Speaker 2 All this makes orality less accommodating of abstract thought.

Speaker 2 You know, people can't isolate ideas from their social context or subjective experience, and that makes it difficult to formulate general rules or abstract categories or rules of logic.

Speaker 2 And this book was written in 1982, long before we had Facebook or social media or anything. But some people look at this and say, hey, this kind of sounds familiar.

Speaker 2 In our age of social media, there is a real emphasis on making your speech easy and enjoyable to repeat in the sense of whatever goes viral is kind of what is going to reach people's consciousness.

Speaker 2 Very demure.

Speaker 9 Very mindful.

Speaker 10 It's about to be a white boy summer.

Speaker 11 What the hell? What the hell?

Speaker 3 It's not clocking to you that I'm standing on business, is it?

Speaker 2 Yeah!

Speaker 2 People are now communicating through the spoken word, through podcasts like this one.

Speaker 3 It's Today Explained, I'm Noel King.

Speaker 2 Through YouTube videos. Hi, I'm Noel King.
And as we celebrate.

Speaker 2 People are communicating through speech and facial expressions, and even in our textual exchanges, with emojis, we're now reapproximating the nonverbal aspects of communication.

Speaker 12 Waving emoji. It's Noel.
King Crown Emoji.

Speaker 2 Put all this together, and some people argue that we have this, we're entering this age of digital orality.

Speaker 2 We're entering this new cultural moment that is distinctive, but recalls some of the aspects of the oral condition.

Speaker 1 There's a lot to take in here, orally,

Speaker 1 but you're not talking about humanity or American culture regressing back to like the cavemen. You're talking about regressing back to an era where ideas,

Speaker 1 concepts,

Speaker 1 characters were chiefly communicated and conveyed through speech. Can you tell us what changed when reading and writing came along? How did that impact our capacity for thought?

Speaker 1 I believe on our reading episode we did last year, I'm gonna say, our guest, UCLA Professor Marianne Wolfe, called reading the closest thing to telepathy humans ever get.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and so all of this that I've been speaking about is kind of premised on a certain account of what writing and reading does to human consciousness and culture.

Speaker 2 And Marianne Wolfe actually supplies a really important concept here, which is that there's a distinction between reading as in just processing written text and reading as in deeply engaging with a long-form piece of writing.

Speaker 2 And it's that kind of reading specifically that is in decline.

Speaker 2 So that form of reading, that deep reading, there's this belief that the advent of it really enabled abstract thought and in fact inherently inspired it.

Speaker 2 Text conjures this voice that speaks inside your head rather than through your ears.

Speaker 2 You encounter these ideas that are stripped from any immediate social circumstance and you're encountering it, just evaluating it in the privacy of your own head.

Speaker 2 Abstract thought allows us to formulate rules of physics.

Speaker 2 It allows us to formulate constitutions, the people of the United States, monotheistic religions.

Speaker 4 I am the Lord thy God.

Speaker 2 So it helps to scale up human societies in terms of their cooperation economically and politically, and it makes the defining sort of rational enlightenment aspects of our culture possible, science and liberal democracy.

Speaker 2 This anyway is the argument among proponents of this orality versus literacy kind of thesis.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people have looked to this concept of orality as a way of understanding where our culture might be going.

Speaker 2 So we had this pre-literate age before people had ever encountered books and read text. Then we had this literate age where books were really central to the culture.

Speaker 2 Now we're in this era where we're potentially leaving the age of literacy behind.

Speaker 1 It just feels like we have to bring up politics here and talk about what impact orality is having

Speaker 1 on

Speaker 1 the way our world's being run right now.

Speaker 2 Critics of digital orality have attributed it as the driver of the rise of right-wing populism. You know, Donald Trump arguably is the most successful communicator of our social media age.

Speaker 2 And kind of like Homer, he references persons very often with an epithet. So instead of swift-footed Achilles or wily Odysseus, Trump talks about

Speaker 1 and sleepy Joe Biden.

Speaker 2 His communication style, obviously, is also very combative,

Speaker 2 very performative,

Speaker 2 always sort of a bid for dominance or status, etc.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, more broadly, these theorists argue that orality erodes commitment to these abstract principles of liberal democracy. Now, it could be that that's true.

Speaker 2 But in the piece, I raise a couple of, you know, complicating factors here.

Speaker 2 You know, I think that it's just not the case that the people who are most hostile to liberal democracy uh in our day and age are all universally poorly read people you know there's peter thiel antichrist or a magedon curtis yarvin the absolute normal form of government is monarchy j.d vance have you said thank you once whatever else you think about them they read a lot of books they talk about books you know uh i think that a lot of the most prominent um authoritarian leftists or or Stalinists generally weren't especially unacquainted with libraries.

Speaker 2 Often they were intellectuals. And so reading, you know, is no vaccine against having authoritarian, illiberal ideas.

Speaker 2 It's reasonable to worry that the mental habits instilled by TikTok and ChatGPT won't be as conducive to liberal democracy as the written word. That said,

Speaker 2 I think that this is really speculative. And I think that there's a lot of reasons to doubt that

Speaker 2 this change in human consciousness or culture, this return to an oral mode, is what's driving political dysfunction in the United States, as some of them suggest.

Speaker 1 Okay, but one thing on which there is no ambiguity is that we are trending in one direction, which is reading less and watching more.

Speaker 1 And where is this heading? I mean, with what, the advent of AI and the fast creep of AI into every aspect of our lives, are we only to expect more orality, less literacy?

Speaker 2 You know, the one bit of caution that I put in the piece about this is just that there's always anxiety about new technologies and how they're going to change the way that humans think and communicate.

Speaker 2 So more than 2,000 years ago, Socrates was really worked up about the novel media technology of his day, writing.

Speaker 2 And he kind of decried it in much the same terms that people decry AI today.

Speaker 2 You know, addressing himself to the inventor of writing, the hypothetical inventor of writing, he said, You have not discovered a potion for remembering, but for reminding.

Speaker 14 You provide your students with the appearance of wisdom, not with its reality.

Speaker 14 Your invention will enable them to hear many things without being properly taught, and they will imagine that they have come to know much, while for the most part they will know nothing.

Speaker 2 So, you know, you thought that being able to write things down, people won't have to memorize poems anymore. They're going to get dumber.

Speaker 2 I think there's more reason to be worried about AI than there was about writing in ancient Greece, but you know, something worth keeping in mind.

Speaker 1 Eric Levitz wrote about orality for Vox.com. When When we return on Today Explained, we're going to talk about what got us here.
Those pesky little videos.

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Speaker 11 Scroll up, scroll in, scroll in.

Speaker 1 Today, Explained is back with Adam Clark Estes, a senior technology correspondent here at Vox.

Speaker 1 Adam, in the first half of of the show, we talked about this idea of orality that our colleague Eric wrote about, which has a lot to do, it turns out, with little videos. Are you a little video guy?

Speaker 13 I don't think of myself as a little video guy.

Speaker 13 I'm not a big TikTok user.

Speaker 13 I enjoy them when they come across my screen. But what I've noticed over the course of the last months and years is that I actually can't escape the little videos.
It's not just on TikTok.

Speaker 13 They're just little videos everywhere.

Speaker 13 It's a vertically oriented video. It's usually a short one.
But if you're watching them on Spotify, it's maybe like a little music video.

Speaker 11 Hey, y'all, this is Monasca.

Speaker 13 If you're watching on LinkedIn, it's maybe like a little motivational speech.

Speaker 2 Welcome to a day in the life of a work-from-home entrepreneur, fractional exec, and parent of two.

Speaker 13 For a little like mini thing about work culture, I saw one where I learned the

Speaker 13 phrase peanut buttering.

Speaker 3 The idea that you apply the same tactics to all areas of a business.

Speaker 13 On shopping sites.

Speaker 3 This right here is going to be my go-to base. Makeup in five minutes with five products.

Speaker 13 But then on TikTok, it's an entertainment platform, right? Like people go to TikTok to have fun and to zone out.

Speaker 13 And some people do it too much.

Speaker 1 Why can't we look away from these things? Why are we so inclined to watch the next video and the next video after that?

Speaker 13 There are a couple answers to your question, Sean. One is the really simple one, which is that these products are designed to keep you engaged.

Speaker 13 TikTok is powered by an algorithm that is really good at not just giving you things that you will like, but giving you things that will surprise you.

Speaker 13 The other thing happening here is, you know, because of the way our brains work, you know, if you look back to the primitive versions of ourselves, we used to be hunter-gatherers and our brains were designed to look for things.

Speaker 13 You can imagine a TikTok feed being sort of like a forest floor full of junk with like little berries berries sprinkled in between. Ooh, yummy.

Speaker 13 Every time we see something that we like or find a berry in that forest, we get a little hit of dopamine.

Speaker 13 This has also been described as kind of the slot machine effect where we keep wanting to pull the lever to see if we're going to win the next time.

Speaker 1 And what is this doing to our brains? Because every time we pull the lever, some sounds go off,

Speaker 1 some pictures happen, and there's like an endorphin rush, right?

Speaker 13 Well, it's reinforcing that behavior. But if you're looking at kind of the longer term, what it does to our attention span, researchers have found that our attention spans are shrinking.

Speaker 13 One of the sources I talked to for my story,

Speaker 13 Gloria Marks, she's a psychologist

Speaker 13 who literally wrote the book on attention span. The book is called Attention Span.

Speaker 13 She found, she's been studying this for a couple of decades, and she's found that since 2004, kind of like

Speaker 13 the length of time we've had the social internet, our attention spans have shrunk from about two and a half minutes to 47 seconds, which

Speaker 13 happens to also be the average length of a TikTok video.

Speaker 1 And how much time are we spending watching these 47 second videos?

Speaker 13 One study I looked at showed that on average, TikTok users spend 108 minutes on TikTok. Wow.
That's about double what Instagram users spend on Instagram.

Speaker 1 So these videos are killing our attention spans slowly but surely, if not quickly, but surely. What's it doing for the rest of our health? Did you talk to anyone about that?

Speaker 13 I talked to a researcher who led a team in Germany that looked at memory.

Speaker 13 In a study that they did, they found that

Speaker 13 TikTok is especially good at impairing your prospective memory. This is the to-do list in your head, the part of your brain that helps you remember to remember something.

Speaker 13 So they had them do a task and and they interrupted them in the middle of the task and

Speaker 13 the researchers would let the subjects of the study look at TikTok or scroll Twitter, watch YouTube videos or do nothing.

Speaker 13 And they found that those that looked at TikTok videos were 40% more likely to struggle with that initial task.

Speaker 13 So if you kind of like put this in a real world

Speaker 13 scenario, if I am sitting down trying to

Speaker 13 write an article for Vox and I get a little tired and I look at my phone and it's you know 10 minutes of TikTok

Speaker 13 oh yummy and then I go back to what I was doing I'm probably gonna have a harder time remembering where my train of thought was or what point I was trying to make

Speaker 13 And there's another thing too, increased social media use has been linked to depression and anxiety, especially in young people.

Speaker 13 It was a study along these lines where we got the term TikTok brain, which

Speaker 13 describes a brain that is not just having a hard time paying attention, but that is also actually anxious and prone to depression and just feeling bad.

Speaker 1 What's the end goal here, Adam? Did you figure that out while writing this piece?

Speaker 1 Is it to just have us watching little videos for the maximum amount of time in a given day with no clear purpose in mind?

Speaker 13 If you're meta or TikTok or Google, I think it's safe to say that the end goal is maximizing profits, selling selling ads, keeping people engaged.

Speaker 13 So yeah, having people looking at these little videos for the greatest number of minutes possible, even if that starts eating into the time that they sleep.

Speaker 13 And I saw some research on this too, where actually some of these platforms are running up against that. People have to sleep.
So how do they fight against that urge to sleep?

Speaker 1 But of course, your piece is titled, Little Videos Are Cooking Our Brains. Importantly, your piece is not titled, Little Videos Have Cooked Our Brains.
We are cooked. There is no going back.

Speaker 1 If I'm recalling correctly, you have some advice for people who are maybe trying to fight the urge to just watch little videos all day.

Speaker 13 The psychologist, Gloria Mark, who wrote the book on attention span, she told me that the number one thing is to take breaks.

Speaker 13 If you find yourself spending a lot of time looking at TikTok or scrolling through Reddit or Twitter or whatever, take a break. And usually when you do, you'll be able to kind of reclaim your time and

Speaker 13 get yourself out of that loop.

Speaker 15 It's a way to reflect on our actions. And by reflection, we can understand why we're doing things.

Speaker 15 For me, it's usually because I am bored or I'm procrastinating. And when we're more intentional in our actions, we can form a plan.

Speaker 13 Another thing that she told me: picture yourself at the end of the day, where you want to be, what you want to get done.

Speaker 13 It is probably very likely that 108 minutes of TikTok watching is not part of that plan that you might have for your day when you wake up in the morning.

Speaker 13 An easy trick that people may have heard of is also just to make your phone more boring. That's what I have done, and it's been somewhat effective.
You can set your screen to grayscale.

Speaker 13 So, as our technology has become more compelling and engaging, we have to become a little bit more proactive about pulling ourselves away from it.

Speaker 1 And a cool thing about books is like you can read from like page one to like page 436 and not encounter a single ad anywhere in the text.

Speaker 13 That is one of my favorite things about books, whether it's learning about the history of the Roman Empire,

Speaker 13 or reading a novel that helps me escape into a world of sci-fi.

Speaker 13 You know, whatever you like in a story, you can find it in a book. I think that's from the Reading Rainbow song.

Speaker 13 But it doesn't have to be books, it can be anything. It can be gardening, it can be going outside, it can be playing with your kids.
A lot of us do want to keep our phones with us all the time.

Speaker 13 And by making those devices more boring, we're less tempted by the little videos that are everywhere.

Speaker 4 Take a scroll, it's a TikTok hole.

Speaker 7 It's another, another, another, another, another little

Speaker 1 Peter Balinon Rosen made our show today. He was edited by Jolie Myers and Amina Al-Sadi.
We were mixed by Patrick Boyd and Andreja Christenstautter, and fact checked by Denise Guerra.

Speaker 1 The rest of our team includes Avishai Artsi, happy birthday, Hadima Wagdi, Miles Bryan, Devin Schwartz, Gabrielle Burbay, Rebecca Ibara, and Noel King, of course.

Speaker 1 Laura Bullard is our senior researcher, Miranda Kennedy is our executive producer, we use music by Breakmaster Cylinder, and today we used a little by Dean Antonio.

Speaker 1 I'm Sean Ramas from Today Explained is distributed by WNYC.

Speaker 1 We're a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and you can find more of the stuff we make to keep you from reading books at podcasts.voxmedia.com.

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