Terrence Ruffin: 1 Week Out From Becoming Classic Mr. Olympia

Two-time Mr.

Olympia runner-up, two-time Arnold Classic champ, United States Air Force veteran, one of the greatest posers of this era and potentially of all time, and one of the top contenders for the classic Mr.

Olympia title in one week.

And a good guy.

I would love to have a Mr.

Olympia who tries to make a change for the sport and tries to make it better in some type of way.

I've gone up to the main space to ask some questions about another thing: how can we get athletes to lean on money?

I grew up believing that whatever it is you do, you want to be good better than how you found it.

One guy I see consistently nailed at winning pounds and pounds and pounds over the weight cap.

That was Urz.

Even offseason, he would be still very lean, like 30 pounds up over the cap.

And personally, I think he's the only guy to nail it every time.

My total dosage haven't increased from when I very first started 10 years ago to now.

The biggest changes have been my training.

Me personally, it's been a lot less volume.

And each time I've dropped my volume, I've gained significant amounts of weight.

That doesn't happen too often because 99% of shows, they don't rejudge at finals, to be honest with people.

For them to see such a change in in presentation your look these volumes that's pretty cool i look at the picture from 2023 and i'm shocked that i even placed fifth i was small like 170 pounds the transformation is crazy bro i had no hamstring at the time my arms were really small it was just all around the size difference is probably the biggest thing that they're gonna see and i put the size on in the right places i think a lot of times guys they get bigger but the physique looks the same like still have the same strengths and weaknesses one thing i've been really particular about is putting on muscle where I i need it to be.

What improvements do y'all think that you guys are going to be bringing since New York Pro to Olympia?

You got to have tender vision when

you're where you're at right now, bro.

I was

doing a bunch of reels, man.

A bunch of reels?

But sorry about that.

No, you're good.

What are the reels looking like for you, right?

My girl was like, don't you have a podcast?

I'm like, oh, shit.

That's right.

Keep them in check.

Got this ugly ass nose drip on.

Yo, bro.

I have those two.

I think they're super sexy.

I was talking, I guess, with the athlete manager.

And they, because he sent me some.

I did a YouTube video.

Like, not as like, it was, you know, just because, just because I was like, oh, I got these, you know, and I talked about them.

Yeah.

And

I was just very honest about it.

And they apparently they loved it.

But like, they said, one of the things I said was like, this is not from my skin complexion.

And

he said everyone started laughing.

And I was like, they said they're going to make some clear ones.

I was like, yeah, nice.

Nice.

I mean, I honestly,

they're not life-changing for me, but I feel like they definitely help because I've been like a pug my entire life, dude.

I had this girl in kindergarten who told me to stop breathing halfway through class.

Oh, shit.

Yeah, man.

I got fucking, got my shit checked at a doctor and whatever, and I have a upper airway resistance syndrome.

So,

now I gotta sleep with this mouthpiece that moves my bottom jaw forward.

Oh, okay.

I've been using the uh the mouth tape, that's about all I have to do, yeah, at the moment.

It's I don't know,

right?

Whatever we can do to fucking get some fucking sleep, though, especially during prep.

So, homies, we're here with the uh next classic Mr.

Olympia.

Yo, what's up?

What's up?

How are you feeling two weeks out from the

show?

I feel pretty good.

Body's in a good spot.

Energy levels are even better than last prep, and last prep was pretty good.

Right now, I mean, just the hard part is

trying to say no to more things and

just sit down and not do anything, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How has that looked like for you, this prep?

Do you think, um, because I know you've got a crazy amount of new influx of businesses coming in and everything.

So I'm assuming your workload is wild compared to previous preps before.

Yeah, no.

You know, it's funny, like being a full-time coach is

a coach, I felt like was probably a little bit more time-consuming.

Like I had maybe at most like 100 clients at a time.

Dude, it's just like you're dealing with that many people.

And I was very difficult for me to say no.

I know some coaches, they only allow people to check in or talk with them once a week or different things like that.

I had like

an open door policy.

If you got a question, hit me up anytime.

But

I felt that was a lot more difficult dealing with that and managing that.

Here, it's a lot easier.

I got,

you know, it's, I guess you're dealing with, I mean, quote unquote, bigger, bigger issues, but they're a little less frequent, you know, and they, all this stuff is a little bit slower to move.

Like, gotcha.

You know, with Bolt, the equipment company, we had to do a bunch, you know, a couple weeks ago because we're launching a new

pin-loaded line.

So we had to go test out equipment, look at designs, make some changes here and there,

which, you know, took, you know, some long days, but now that's done.

And we're just sitting to wait to get the product in.

And with the gym, it was a lot with getting contractors in the door and showing them around, trying to figure out how to set the place up.

And now we're just waiting on permits.

I don't have to do anything with the gym until after the Olympia.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it worked out pretty good.

It turns out I'm like, dude, this is perfect.

Like,

because like I would have stopped doing stuff for the gym regardless, but

it's perfect that I'm not like wasting two or three weeks just because of prep.

It just works out that I can't do anything because the permits are doing stuff.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fucking nice.

Yeah.

Are you

what is coaching looking like for you right now?

Are you still taking on at least a certain of clients or is it just you're just not?

I just offended.

I think I prepped someone for the last show I prepped on for was maybe

I don't know, like maybe six to eight weeks ago was the last last time I had a client.

Yeah, yeah.

That's kind of soon, honestly.

That makes a lot of sense, though, man, because I was talking to, I'm saying the same thing to

Kurt Havens, who has like 200 clients or something, and he doesn't have an ounce of time, right?

No.

And he's like barely making by with trying to make sure that he's got family time as well.

So I just remember when I was even coaching like years, years, years back, it's like, you know, if you really care about your clients, each one is its own relationship by itself.

So much less like, imagine how hard is it for some of us to freaking deal with our own single partnership that we have right now, much less 100 more people.

People, right?

Dude, it's a lot.

Like, coaches, I feel like sometimes I don't feel like they get enough respect.

And like, you see somebody, you know, when I started in bodybuilding, like the top coaches were charging like three, $300, right?

Yeah.

But nowadays, you see how much time a lot of athletes require.

And like, I can't really knock them for one to charge like 500 bucks a month because it's it takes a lot man it really does it does

i was charging more than that too so

i was

in the whole bro like i mean anything like i know some of them even charge like 750 to a grand

but like

i mean you got to get to that point where like

you're charging enough to like you know feed yourself and your family but also give enough attention attention to each person, right?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

It's a tough, it's a tough balancing act, right?

Right.

So for a classic Mr.

Olympia, you know, I was listening to a few podcasts and I like that you were just like, you know, I'm not fucking shy about this shit.

Like, I'll say it straight up.

Like, I'm going to be the next Mr.

Olympia, which is awesome.

I mean, I'm all, I grew up, you know, my mom taught me affirmations and believing in yourself.

And like,

I just, you know, for years, I kept, you know, shy away from that.

And now I'm just like, I don't care.

I'm just going to speak my truth.

It sounds like a hippie white girl saying, hey, I'm going to be conscious.

But no, that's how it feels, man.

Yeah.

My parents didn't teach me this, but my close friends, Dion and my best friend Ryan, that passed away,

their perspective over life was a lot.

There was a lot associated regarding manifestation and kind of believing and envisioning that the future that you wanted to be true is going to be true and then acting upon it.

And these guys are guys who have been to jail and been in prison and

through an assortment of fucking catastrophes and shit.

They had to figure out how to

the easiest way I can explain this is like when we were looking for an apartment, it was fucking hell man because these guys had like zero credit and they had they were like fucking past criminals.

So essentially they had to work their way to apply for veterans court and try to get all of these things appealed.

And of course, after basically believing in these acts and acting upon them, they were able to get their records completely cleared.

They were able to get money from the military for certain specific and private situations that occurred that were associated with potentially the reasons why they ended up in prison and etc.

Basically, they made everything happen.

And now Dion's like making more money than I am, twice as much more money than I am, and fucking killing it.

And,

you know, and he's not fucking in prison and shit.

So he's a.

I'm pretty sure there's like even like studies on this stuff where like writing things down and speaking things into existence actually has a positive effect on people.

Like it's not just like hippy-dippy stuff, man.

It's like

quantifiable things, right?

Yeah.

You know?

So.

Yeah.

I was having this conversation, honestly, last night.

And that's why my fucking, you know, my face is botched because I just hit my show yesterday.

I always love that look, man.

You fucking look like you're coming up.

You look good, man.

You're shredded.

I like the posing routine as well.

Thank you, bro.

If you can tell, it was a complete tribute to you and your New York Pro routine.

You know,

I did see.

I never want to assume, man.

You know, a lot of people do a lot of stuff.

Yeah.

But no, okay, yeah, I do see some of it in there.

It's funny, man.

I don't, it was, it was, uh, did you, was it McShadows that wrote the long post?

post, or was it, uh, yeah,

okay, okay, I did not read the entire post, I'm gonna be honest with you, but I did watch the routine, and it was, it was awesome.

Thank you, bro.

I appreciate it.

I haven't posted the, uh, I think the actual music routine.

I'll probably post it when I post about the show, but um,

I just got to say, like, I've never felt more confident about my posing and everything.

And

I do got to give a lot of thanks to you, bro, because you've definitely inspired me like crazy with just how much

work and time you've put into your your posing and creating it into an art.

And

this is something that I wanted to say at some point anyways, but I mean, I feel like this is, this makes the most sense and this is the perfect time.

But like yesterday I learned just how important it is in classic physique for

presentation, stage presence, and confidence

that it dictates your score.

Because basically what happened was I came in for pre-judging and man, I was so dehydrated as fuck, man.

I was dehydrated as fuck.

So I was like, you know, when you're so dehydrated you can barely even pose properly like it's hard to even flex um uh didn't have like the energy and then we were really unprepared going into pre-judging I didn't get a chance to pump up properly because Christian and I kind of mistimed when they were going to go on stage um I didn't get a glaze on or at least uh he had his little glaze but it wasn't the same glaze everyone else uses so everyone the people in the audience my people him Even the judges after the show told me like you didn't look like you were glazed at all on pre-judging, which isn't the biggest deal, but you you know, lacking in pump, being flat, not having a glaze on all these things obviously doesn't help make you look like you're going to pop.

Um, yeah.

And uh,

what happened was at finals, you know, I thought I was going to get like third call outs or something.

Like, I thought I was just going to be at the end of the lineup of 20 pros.

And

they ended up calling up my name to join the top five out of nowhere.

And I was like, holy shit, what the fuck?

And

had me pose down with the the top five and afterwards i asked you know and they were like

you literally i i i don't know how to explain this to you guys to you

but

basically

we thought that you had looked like a completely different person um you know it's funny man like i i i love i i know a lot about judging now and like For that to happen, it's like, I mean, you probably get it too.

It's fucking rare.

That doesn't happen too often because like 99% of shows, they don't, they don't rejudge at finals, to be honest with people.

Yeah.

For them to, to see such a change in, you know, your presentation, your look, you know, speaks volumes.

That's pretty cool.

Thanks, man.

And I mean, I really think it was all because like the second time around, I just felt, I was just way more prepared.

I was like, I learned from the pre-judging.

I'm like, all right, we're going to come here 30 minutes early.

I'm going to just lay down.

at the backstage and then start pumping up when I feel ready, like when I feel it in my gut, get the glaze on.

And then I'm going to, I also was well hydrated.

So like posing was a lot more exciting and felt better, you know, and more fluid.

And then the whole time up there, I was thinking Anton was telling me something because, you know, Anton just won the show that C Bum had told him previously.

And it's an acronym I don't remember, but it's something that I kept in mind.

And it was about basically

be

what's the word?

I think it's like be fantasized or just be like astonished with what you're about to do.

Like this amazing and beautiful feat that you're about to perform for people, how fun it is, how cool it is.

And just use that to catapult you into the present so that it just eliminates the noise in your head.

Because, you know, when you've got that noise going on in your head and you're going up on stage, I feel like it's very easy for us to subconsciously like shake and all of these things.

And you'll hear people talking and commenting about Anton's posing.

Like, yo, Anton like needs to practice his posing or, you you know, you can see that he doesn't look super comfortable or shaking.

Every time he came off of that, he would tell me, I didn't do it again.

Like, or I like fucked up again.

And he knows it.

He knows it.

He knows.

He's trying.

Like, he's trying, but it's like, it's that mental game in your head that you got to fight when you go on stage, right?

To be like, I've, I want to present this, and I just want to present it beautifully.

Doesn't matter what the outcome is.

It's that this is what I want to do right now is I want to be the best I can.

And I think that's just what really fucking helped at the finals.

And I just ended up like that routine that I did that was inspired by you and the song that you chose.

I think that shit just changed the whole

game, the ratings for me.

So it's pretty cool.

Thanks, man.

That is cool.

Cool.

Yeah.

So thanks for that, bro.

No, thank you, man.

No, I appreciate it, man.

That's really cool.

But I wanted to ask you,

so hypothetically, if you were to win the new classic mr olympia title what would you like to bring to bodybuilding as the new classic mr olympia

you know it's crazy man i i i've thought about that for years and you know um

you know obviously like i look at a lot of the past champs and um

you know

they're free to do whatever they want but

i would love to have a mr olympia

naturally like tries to make a change for the sport, you know, and tries to make it better in some type of way and uses uses that platform to advocate for whatever it may be.

Like, I've never heard a Mr.

Olympia do really anything or say anything, you know, in terms of the sport.

Say, for instance, it could be like

the first year I won the Arnold.

You know, I didn't do it.

Ali took a different route on how he handled the prize money at the Arnold.

For me, I was just very honest.

I was like, that year I won $6,000.

And I had someone ask me on Instagram in my story, it's like, you know, are you going to do it again?

And I was like, honestly, if the prize money is the same, no, I won't do it.

It's not worth it.

And then I'm not saying it's because of me, because Logan likes to call, Logan's my buddy, but Logan likes to call me out, say, it's not you, you didn't do it.

But like, next year it was $60,000, right?

So, you know, and regardless of whether it was me or somebody else, you know, like,

I spoke out about it, you know, and respectfully did so.

You know, not tarnishing anyone or anything like that.

I think a lot of times people are afraid to speak their minds out of out of fear of,

I guess, retaliation.

But there's a way to speak about stuff and do it respectfully, you know?

And every time I've done it, I've never had any issues.

Like I've flown up to see Jake Wood to say like, hey,

how about we offer every athlete an athlete's code going into the Olympia?

You know, they say they want to make more money.

This seems like a very fair way to do so, right?

No, like if they bring more people, they get more money.

Easy, simple, done.

I've gone up to the Mayan space to like ask them questions about like

another thing, how to athletes, how can we get athletes to make more money?

Like, and I've, I called every single Mr.

and Miss Olympia before I went up there, right?

And none of them really seemed too interested in, you know, doing anything, right?

Outside of that, man, like, we like to use the word ambassador.

Personally, like, I think the real word ambassador, like, like if you think about it, you know, politics and whatnot, it's someone that leaves where they're from to advocate, you know, to other people outside of their area, right?

And like, I'm not saying

that previous Mr.

Olympias have not been good for the sport and been a good role model for the sport and bodybuilders, but it's been a while since I've seen bodybuilders actually doing things outside of bodybuilder, right?

I think Chris has done a great job.

He's done stuff with,

what's his name?

The Chris Scott of Us podcast.

He's done stuff with Jordan Peterson, a couple other people outside the sport.

And that's what I mean.

Like

Chris Williamson.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean doing stuff outside of the sport, like not just in it, right?

Yeah.

I would love to be able to do that.

I don't know how hard or easy that'll be, but

those are the two things I really want to kind of

to do while I have that position because I've seen even people where

like they've won that title and then they don't say anything and then they lose it and then they notice like the discrepancy from first to whatever place they get and then they want to say something and I'm like, bro, it's too late because now it's going to look like you're bitching.

But when you, you should have did it while you were winning, right?

Because then it would have actually mattered a lot more.

I see what you're saying.

So

yeah, man, I just, I just want to try to help as much as I can.

I grew up believing that like whatever it is you do, you want to leave it better

than how you found it.

I think that's a fucking awesome.

I feel like that's one of the best goals that you could possibly have, to be honest, as a Mr.

Olympia, because growing this sport is one of the things that all of us want to do.

And we love this thing, right?

We want it to grow.

And I think there isn't enough people that kind of like reach outside of the niche.

That's something that I even have trouble with.

Honestly, I've been doing the opposite where literally I've been holding myself more and more into the bodybuilding niche as every year passes.

And

it's been amazing to see what people like

Chris Bumstead and Jay Cutler have done for the sport to help it grow.

Even freaking like Sam Sullik, to be honest.

So

honestly, I would love to see more of that because as bodybuilding grows and grows and becomes bigger, it just becomes more exciting and more fun.

And people, there's more people that relate to it and understand it.

And that's the best part.

Because I remember fucking what, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, people were just like, look at these fucking geared-out freaks, man.

These fucking animals.

You know, not even human.

it's weird because like

30 years ago it was actually going up we were on espn we're on like uh talk shows and whatnot and then even ronnie was on jay leno right like uh you had sean ray on espn doing a special every week and then like somewhere in like the 2000s that's when it just started to like be gone like not on tv anymore

um not not anywhere on tv so i don't i don't know what really happened or how that came about but we kind of hit a low.

And I think we're going back up now.

Like, obviously, we're still not on TV, but like, social media-wise, we're reaching a lot more people.

I wonder if that's because of like the aesthetic appeal, how it became a little bit more monstrous in the 2000s.

It could be.

It could be for sure.

And I think, too, man, a part of it has to do with direction and like leadership.

Guys, like in those earlier days, like Joe Weider, dude, Joe Weider was great at like reaching out to getting getting bodybuilders out there and stuff like that.

And it's because of the way the sport was set up.

He had those guys on the contract.

They were under that weeder contract.

Nowadays, they don't have that anymore.

No one in the Olympia is contracted.

No athlete is contracted by the Olympia to do anything.

So I think that's probably the biggest difference.

We had a person with a vision at that point.

Right.

Just a sport.

Like a manager almost.

I honestly think the Mr.

Olympia should fucking have a manager.

I don't know.

Dude, like, bro, like,

make them do, I don't know, however many events, maybe three events throughout the year.

I guarantee you, whoever is running the Olympia could easily set that up.

You know, like, they got the pool to do it 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like that idea.

What do you feel like fuels you to be the best and be number one?

Dude, I just have like a, a, uh, inner like

drive for self-improvement.

You know,

I learned that about myself that if I'm not growing or evolving in some type of way, I get really, really depressed.

That was in 2000, like 23, 24 timeframe.

I had the injury, so I couldn't train.

My business wasn't going the best.

Personal life, relationships weren't going that great.

So there was like no avenue for me to like

every, every, every aspect of my life was not doing great.

Um, but as soon as I had at least one thing that I was able to like actually push, like pour myself into,

then things start to feel a lot better for me, you know.

So I, it's just, it's just, I don't know how I am.

And I think

in general, a lot of, a lot of men are that way where we need to have something in life that we're working towards, whether it's our family or business or whatever it may be.

I was going to say that,

but I assume that you were on the same mindset as I was.

Honestly, I do feel like it's probably one of the biggest foundations that are just required for us as men to keep going.

One of the things that I think is kind of just like a necessary that we have a purpose that we fight towards and that we grow.

And that's just one of the coolest things I think about bodybuilding is it's such a

it's got such an easy, almost quantifiable measure of like your growth you know what I mean

it really does makes it easy yeah yeah

um

and uh

plus it also has the uh testosterone related competitive nature so

that's just kind of next to dude my favorite quote like on earth is uh is by this guy papa picasso and he says like the uh

the purpose of life is to find your gift and then the meaning of life is to share it with the world.

And I'm like, yo,

that's it for me.

I love it.

I loved it.

Yeah, I like that too.

So there was a few people that said, obviously, there's always going to be these fucking people, right?

There's always going to be the talk of the left and the talk on the right, always.

But there was some people that like mentioned that they thought that you were in the most conditioned at Pitts or even like New York Pro, and then obviously comparing you to Jose.

But

how do you feel like your conditioning will stack up against the top five at Olympia?

I think it'd be good.

I'm not worried about that at all.

I mean,

the condition, my conditioning was fine.

Obviously, Jose is probably like,

out of everyone I've seen, probably has the deepest lines out of anyone I've seen.

Anyone.

I would say more so than.

Michael DeBull because Michael used to have that title.

Yeah, right.

Obviously, even

more so than Logan.

Like, Logan's conditioned, like, obviously, but this deep separation Jose has is by far the best.

I think that's what really, you know,

shows it off, right?

But yeah, no,

even if you watch the recap video, even Tyler points it out.

He's like, Terrence was conditioned, but

he says either the lighting, the lighting doesn't do it justice.

And secondly, I'm standing next to like the fucking S-tier guy.

So,

no, I feel good.

My condition will be fine.

For sure.

I love that Tyler said that too, because I'm not fucking afraid to say it.

I'll just say it straight up.

But I'm like, honestly, bro, in that lighting, especially at the New York Pro, I think just you being black just made it harder to see your fucking lines, man.

So, you know, the thing is, no one, like, I know cameras, man.

So, yeah, I, and I know lighting.

Um, I literally have like

mics over here.

Um,

So when I was talking with Gilco about this too, so when you're setting up stage lighting, right?

What people don't realize is usually they have a model and he's like

like a like in the middle.

They try to find someone in the middle if possible.

Sometimes they don't use a model at all.

But

if they do, so the lighting is specific for like the average looking, you know, person.

So if you're on the darker side, you're not going to show your, you're not going to be the best.

And if you're on the very, very pale side, you're not going to be the best, right?

So that's something you kind of have to think about it's like the average of of of of that and usually i i think nine times out of ten i'm the darkest guy on stage so usually the lighting isn't going to be set up for me because if it's set up for me then it's going to be worse for the guys who are a lot brighter right

it is what it is that makes a lot of sense luckily the judges are in person it's it's a little bit easier to see Yeah, you know, right.

Plus, I mean, well, I wasn't there, of course, but and I know him being there makes a huge difference.

Like, people were really shocked at Sam's.

Uh, I don't know if you know Sam.

Uh, is his last name Paulin or something?

Or Puckland or whatever?

No, yeah, I saw the show.

I saw um, he got 14th.

I was kind of shocked, right?

So, man, I don't know how much I could talk about this because I

fuck.

I don't know what's private information and what's not.

Um,

so basically, what happened was the judges called me and Sam up the top five yesterday to rejudge him and I.

Or, well, I don't know if it was really to rejudge him, but I think apparently there was a communication between them about like Sam's placing and Sam obviously wasn't happy with it because Sam has an amazing structure and he's been placed before.

Now, I'm being genuine, like straight up.

Like, I like Sam and he's an awesome guy.

Being there at the show, though, and other people being at the show too, they saw that even though while it's not super clear from pictures, he definitely

this lineup was pretty fucking shocking.

and I wasn't expecting the lineup to be this good.

And from what I was told, I think

either six to 11 of them, I think Andrew Walker said 11, I think he was exaggerating, but maybe like six of them at least have qualified for Olympia or won a pro show.

For example, Andy got third place, he has won three pro shows already.

Um, so and everybody there, especially in the top 10, like the guy next to me was also one of Patrick's clients who got 10th place, and he was hard as nails, man.

Like, these guys were fucking hard and sam just came very full but i think it sacrificed a lot of his hardness like you could see his glute striations but it just wasn't like everything was you know kind of like cloudy and soft and it just kind of really

even though the harder guys did not have not nearly as good of a structure as him nearly as good a symmetry um proportions

They really prioritize, I think, conditioning in this show and just the pop, the hardness and the pop at at this show.

And

that's probably what costed Sam that.

So,

seeing your pictures, it's kind of clear, especially at New York Pro, man, like your lower lumbar and your glutes were just like fucking ripped like tiger shreds, man.

So, I think it's uh, it was just kind of harder to see in that lighting.

And standing next to Jose is kind of unfair, honestly, when it comes to conditioning.

Oh, man, okay, that makes sense.

I mean, yeah, because I look at him structurally, Sam, and he looks fantastic, man.

But like you said, pictures don't always tell the full story, man.

Like, if you don't know cameras, again, that's usually like cameras,

photographers usually set it to like one six, one

250th of a second or even higher than that.

So like a fraction of a fraction of a second, you know, you see in a photo.

So.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I know what you mean.

Like I'm looking at these photos online too, and I'm like, damn, did I fucking forget to like flex my upper quad in my like vacuum ab and thigh?

And I'm like, which is like blowing my mind.

You could have did it a half a second later.

Like it is.

Yeah.

I know, right?

So Petor,

Petor,

Patrick mentioned that I saw this little post, honestly.

I didn't even, I don't remember if he said it in a podcast or whatever, but there was this post claiming that Patrick had mentioned that Jose could improve a lot, but not win Mr.

O because of his structure genetically, which was an interesting take.

So I was curious what you thought about that.

It's tough to say.

Like, I like Jose a lot, you know, he's a really good kid.

I do,

I personally think he's probably one, like,

I hear a lot of people talk about classic guys holding themselves back by staying in this division.

I think he might be one of the ones

who might be holding himself back because he did turn pro in open.

I think in the next year or two, he might switch over, you know, because he's, I guarantee you, he's at the weight cap, especially with how conditioned he gets.

He's probably probably forced to be that condition to make weight.

I do find it a very difficult role, man.

Like, because like there's not much he can, if he's at the weight cap, there's not much more he can do, right?

It's not much more he can do to fill out his legs, like where he needs to fill out.

Um, His conditioning is already a 10 out of 10.

He's got enough

general size everywhere.

It's just putting muscle out in certain areas to give him a better shape.

Right.

And I could see why he says that because, yeah, it could be really difficult.

I don't really see a path for him to get there with the limitations of classic.

Yeah.

That's not a very nice way to say that.

No, I feel like that's as logical as an answer that someone could even give.

I think

I would be curious to know, too, because I don't remember who commented this, so it probably doesn't even matter.

It was incredible, but

there was some comment mentioning that they'd be eager to see how he does at this Olympia because he's put on like a certain amount of size, which to me was a surprise hearing people put on size like him and Ramon because I'm like, I thought they were already pushing that gap and struggling to make it.

So I'm like, what does that mean?

for the package that is about to be presented, you know?

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure.

There's only barely been like one guy i see consistently nail it when they're like pounds and pounds and pounds over the weight cap and that was urz like it like every year in the offseason he would be still very lean like 30 pounds up over the cap and personally i think he's the only guy to nail it every time i've seen like

other guys over the years like regan back like in the early

in the late 2010s when he did classic for that year.

His look suffered, you know, cutting all that weight.

Same with Ramon.

I think he was having that issue.

I think that was the main issue last year is because he put on so much muscle over the weight cap, right?

Um, there's not many people I see that can get

super, super over that weight cap and then cut down and still look like their best, right?

Yeah,

it's tough for sure.

There is an interesting look, though, that I

feel like I've seen with guys who have had to suck it down a lot.

And

I don't know.

It's weird.

It's like

they're a lot more flat than you see them when they're in their offseason, of course, and even whenever they're like a little bit more fueled, but it does come a lot more like striated almost.

And that's what I think Patrick did with me for this show, which I'm totally open to talking about because I'm at the same stage weight as I was with Kyle at last show, last year.

But people are telling me about that my legs are like way, way bigger.

So to me, I'm like, did I lose muscle?

Or did I lose muscle in certain areas or

did I, did what happened,

did Patrick do what I think he did, which is basically we're on less stuff in general and also dieted a lot harder, which sunk me down.

But then in return, in turn, in exchange for that fullness, I got that conditioning on stage, which like

is one of the reasons why the judges wanted to bring me back to is like the whole hamstring glutes driations and saying that I had like the best back conditioning on stage.

And I think, I think that was Patrick's basically his

attack, which I think kind of works a lot

in classic these days, seeing how Logan and Jose have been doing, I think, pretty decently well for their structure and physique.

Yeah.

You know, it's crazy, man.

I was really interested to see Urs how he looked that much heavier.

And I think you're right.

When you have to suck down like he did for Classic, he had a lot more lines everywhere.

Yeah.

As opposed to him in the open.

And the biggest difference I saw was like the back for whatever reason.

So, yeah, I do think that that played a part, like really, really having to suck down.

You can get a lot more lines out of your body.

How much weight do you have left in your wake up?

Well, I got my final weight when I was in Pittsburgh Wednesday.

It's 182.

And

I'm right about 182 right now.

So I'm fine.

Yeah, I probably got another year or two.

I mean, if Urz is getting 30 pounds over one, I got like three, four years left before I got a really

disappointed because I was hoping it was going to be 187.

And that's your cap.

187 is your cap?

182, 182.

Going throughout the years, it's been a little different.

And now I realize it's because of my hair, was probably why I was getting that higher weight cap, to be honest with you.

I mean, they push it down, but like,

it's only so far they could push down, right?

Now I'm getting older, my hair is standing.

Shit, man.

So,

because like it started, like, I was, it was always like,

I was always five, five, and one, four for like,

I don't know, like 10 shows.

And then the past,

like three or four, or it's been back, it's been up and down, right?

And I think that's the main reason because my hair is not nearly as long as it was when I was younger.

Interesting, yeah, he measured me like a quarter of an inch shorter last time, too.

And I was wondering the same thing.

I literally felt like, like, what could it possibly be aside from like the fact that my hair is thinner in the back?

Yeah, man, it was, I was definitely a little that, and yeah, it is what it is, but yeah, the cap is 182, so that's what that's what we're working with.

Damn.

All right.

Cool.

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Yeah, considering how much everyone else is fucking down, then I feel like using that kind of like strategy where we come in even more like it's almost more flat, but more defined, but you have more muscle maturity.

Yeah, that you do have like a quite a few years of improvement still.

So that's fucking sick.

Yeah, I feel good.

People keep saying when I'm doing the open of the 212, I'm like, first of all, I'm probably

never doing the open.

It's like they don't understand understand the difference.

I was like, I'm never doing the open.

212 is still a ways away as well.

Because they're like, oh, bro, you could compete with Keon.

I was like, dude, I've been next to Keon.

He's my height and like fucking 40 pounds heavier.

It's not even type of club.

I just want to see the craziest fucking shit, man.

We want to see the craziest fucking Terrence ever, bro.

Open Derrence would be fucking wild.

Open Derrens.

Dude, Derek's, I would like Derek.

I think Derek on Sage, I don't know how heavy he is.

He's like 230, maybe or somewhere around there.

Something crazy.

That's 50.

That's 54 pounds.

I would have to put on.

Dude.

Holy shit.

Do you know how?

I'm like 50 pounds my entire career.

Do you know how heavy Nick Walker is on stage?

I think he's like, I think 270, maybe.

Yeah, maybe 250.

Maybe 280.

Bro, it's like something like that.

5'7 or something, too, right?

Or 5'6.

He's thick.

Yeah.

Straight up, just like 100 pounds of muscle more than me.

That's cool.

Show.

More than I've ever put on in my entire lifetime.

Yeah.

So I really enjoyed my podcast with Hyace, by the way.

He's actually fucking super.

Yeah, I watched it.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was good.

It was really good.

I was wondering, what did you guys do to peak for a New York Pro and improve your package from Pittsburgh?

You know what's funny?

So Pittsburgh, apparently, they said we came in a bit flat.

So

I think we did cardio just maybe two two days.

After, well, first of all, I ate a lot of food at the show.

Sushi, some pizza, Brazilian steakhouse.

I think that was everything I had.

You know, I hopped back on cardio the next

two days, and then we pulled it.

We just came in fuller because the cool thing was, is like the day after Pittsburgh on Sunday,

the judges said, man, you look so much better than yesterday.

You need to come and looking like that.

And I'm like, oh, okay.

So that's what we did.

We came.

We were, we're just like two pounds heavier than Pittsburgh, but it definitely looked a lot different for sure.

What did you guys end up eating?

What was the meal presenting?

He always gives me cream of rice and protein or some rice and a little bit of meat.

He's one of the few coaches that I think does that, like does the whey protein because most coaches are like firmly against

whey uh going into a show right yeah

patrick actually gave me

he had some whey in the very beginning of peak week but by the time it was like the last half of peak week and maybe like probably even like tuesday or whatever like i'm pretty sure it was all just eggs lean beef chicken um salmon maybe some white fish He'll give me,

now remember, not meat, but egg whites.

Egg whites and rice or whey and cream of rice.

And it's only like 15 grams grams a whey with a meal.

It's not like a lot at all.

Gotcha.

Or 100 grams of egg whites with the rice.

And we eat that like every

two hours or so.

So I think maybe I ate eight meals that day.

That's a big, that's all he does.

He does basically the same

meal all day.

Yeah.

And yeah.

I know this isn't so old school bodybuilding, and I do fucking love the old school shit more and more, but

I feel like it's being shown more that it's just okay to fucking take things like whey protein, like as long as it doesn't have like a like it's not like no hate to ghosts or anything like

that.

Yeah, yeah.

As long as it doesn't have the insane experimentation chemical acts that ghost has.

Yeah, so man, when I was with Rise,

I had to stop it because it would start to mess with my gut.

So I switched to like just a very clean protein the whole like two weeks

of my peak week because of that same thing.

Yeah, I was having a lot of issues and then I switched and I was good.

Gotcha.

Do you guys

do you guys do anything for like water inflammation or stress?

And is there anything that you did for Pittsburgh specifically?

Well, I guess

New York.

Ashwaganda, fossil dynoserine.

It's typically what he likes to do for that type of stuff.

He doesn't like me to do anything.

He doesn't like me to walk.

He doesn't like me.

Yeah, he doesn't want me to roll a bag around, bro.

I feel like a baby, honestly.

Myself.

What are your thoughts of using the sauna?

I've never, I've never really done it, to be honest with you.

I did it for my first year as a pro, and that was just because

my body was done.

I had competed.

It was October, and I started prepping in March.

So it was.

It's a long season.

Gotcha.

Yeah, I'd be curious to hear more experiences regarding the sauna because I know some guys like to implement it if they feel like it's necessary.

Like, damn, like, I'm carrying a little bit of extra water weight or whatever.

But I know it's also its own stress response.

So that's true, too.

Yeah.

No, I don't have, I don't have any experience.

I'm always too nervous, man, because of that.

Yeah, I'm like, I don't know how this is going to affect me.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'm going to flatten out, you know, anything like that.

Right.

How much more of the food did you guys eat for New York Pro to fill out more than pits?

Like, did you guys fuel up an extra day or I wish you would have gave me a uh

I could have looked it up oh shit

I know right gotta look through like the whatsapp messages

yeah whatsapp messages um

shoot I think we I know we ate a lot I know we ate more we probably we probably had

Maybe like 50% more carbs the second go around.

You don't remember how many carbs was the first go-around, right?

No.

Both man beforehand.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think Tip.

Now I remember.

Yeah.

I don't want to scroll.

I feel like it's going to take a while because

we just started checking in daily.

So it's a, and that was in May.

Yeah, that's going to be a long time.

Yeah, you're good.

Don't worry about it.

No, I liked.

He did mention that

you tend to have a better package whenever you guys make sure that you're full.

it's when you're flat where you look softer which is

yeah a pretty cool aspect to attack and pretty cool I think it something that's like unique or well not necessarily unique but it's different per person right like normally for me I'm I'm more strided and more defined when I'm flat and then I lose some of that definition when I become more full

but um I don't know.

Interestingly enough, it seemed like the judges at this slash show liked my finals package so much better.

And they say,

that's the thing is, like, I wonder, was it subconsciously seeing the confidence and the presentation made you also think that I had a better package?

Maybe I was posing it better, or was the fullness actually better, right?

It's probably both, man.

You know, as much as people want to take bias out of things, you can't like, there's always a subconscious bias to anything that we do.

Yeah.

Right.

So

I would imagine it's a little bit of everything.

Yeah.

That made the most sense.

How do you guys manipulate water and sodium?

Do you normally keep it pretty consistent, or is there like a certain level of sodium that you just make sure that you attack every single day?

So I do about a gram a meal.

So I mean, that's like

I do seven meals a day.

So about

so, seven grams typically.

And then as we go into

like

peak

the day before the show, he normally

like cuts it in half.

So that's what we'll do like the day before

and then the day of the show we won't have any sodium until we start pumping up backstage gotcha that's what we've done yeah in terms of water uh it stays pretty consistent um

we do about

six liters a day and then

The day before, that's when we drop it a bit.

I end up doing like

100 milliliters per meal.

So it depends on how many meals I eat, but like normally, so that's a lot less than

the normal days.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

yeah, yeah, something around those numbers.

Don't quote me, but generally around that.

Yeah.

Bro, that's wild.

These European coaches do a lot of the same shit.

I swear to God, Patrick and I have like the almost the exact same numbers.

I just, I have six meals a day, so it's like starts off at like 1.5 grams of salt per meal, but then it goes down to like one.

It's cut by two-thirds.

But like, we're also on six liters of water as well.

Funny enough.

The one thing.

Yeah.

The one thing I got to ask, though,

for the day before

the day of the show, you said no sodium until you pump up.

So it's like two meals typically.

How do you feel that morning when you wake up?

Like normally, like, do you feel pretty dehydrated?

How do you feel normally dehydrated yeah yeah i always that's always the worst part for me man i wake up and i'm like just thirsty that's literally the worst part worst part the the thirst the day of the show and then the tan like the day before i hate

those are two worst parts of prep yeah

the dehydration is probably the worst for me too like i just feel the fatigue of being dehydrated it really is it really does fatigue you yeah yeah

So do you not feel like, do you feel like that fatigue just stays until you get the salt before like that pump up?

um

probably probably because i do feel pretty

pretty tired yeah the whole time yeah you're right yeah yeah

that's a tough thing to fight through huh

i mean it's the day of i could handle anything the day of the show yeah

it's not too too bad but um

no yeah i do i didn't even think i don't i normally so just like in the in the moment in the zone i don't really think think too much like that but like now that you mentioned it yeah i do feel i usually do feel lethargic like the day of the show.

Gotcha, that's cool.

For me, I'm definitely a little bit more in my head about things.

So like the day of the show, if I'm, you know, because we're feeling dehydrated and I'm feeling fatigued, it gets me in my head about like, man, am I going to be able to like pose properly on stage?

So I'm always like in the mindset of like

trying to like recupate energy.

How can I get my energy back or whatever?

And unfortunately for yesterday, it took kind of like, it just only kept improving the entire day but it took a while so with pre-judging being at 11 a.m i was still really fatigued by the time i went on stage and it kind of showed um

but i think that's just something that obviously i and maybe some other competitors that have shared the same experience will probably just have to play around with and figure out but yeah yeah i'm so like hands off like when i It's almost to a fault, to be honest with you, but I get so hands-off when I have someone managing something to the point where like it's just not in my head.

Like if if you're doing this for me, then you, you deal with all the stress and all the everything, and I'm just gonna, you know, go.

And

I don't know if it comes from the military or what, but you know, um, that's typically how I am.

Sounds pretty military.

Yeah, yeah.

You just

don't think about it.

But, uh, yeah.

What improvements do y'all think that you guys are going to be bringing since New York Pro to Olympia?

Dude, I think I brought up my amstrings even more I was really really happy I was Joe was in town her purchase for coach yeah I mean I was really really happy with that that's awesome I was also I'm really I made some changes to my my back double bicep which I was really happy with as well like

I was looking at the the New York

the New York Pro and I was honestly like

i this I was happy with the size, but I wasn't happy with the detail in my back.

And I'm like, I've seen pictures over years, and my back was very different from like show to show.

And it just, it was a, it was a posing issue, right?

So

I finally figured it out.

And it's something Joe had been telling me for years, but I didn't want to listen.

Trying to find the picture, I sent it to him the other day and said, yo, my bad, bro.

Like, I should have listened to you years ago.

Where is that shot at?

I don't know if you'll be able to see it.

That is probably really tough to see

but oh no it's not that bad oh but yeah

like i i i i stopped arching my back so much and i just i stand up a lot more straight up top right yeah so like there's a lot more detail i feel like in my laps and in my low in my erectors oh look at that yeah i got something i was like like arching my back and now i actually come up interesting yeah have you okay i got well i mean i don't want to now you're probably already like experimented enough, so this isn't gonna be confusing.

Um, I've tried something with my own posing with the back pose, too, and it's it paid off at the show.

Um, because you know, they had me pose with the top five as well, and it was cool because my back pose had more depth than I think maybe three of the guys.

Like that's what stood out the most for me.

And I was looking at your pose, I was like, holy shit, his back is really good.

Thank you, bro.

Appreciate it.

So, something that I found out, though, is like, there's some guys that will like like breathe in to make their back look bigger, but that takes away a lot from detail.

And obviously there's also guys that'll try to arch as much as possible, maybe to try to get more detail.

I've noticed for me, the thing is like, I actually have to, I almost do the thing that I see C bum doing.

Now, I don't know if this is exactly what he's doing, but like you sit back and then you crunch down on your lats.

But in order for me to do it properly, I can't have a lot of air in my lungs.

And which sucks because for a lot of guys, that's kind of like where they get a chance to breathe.

Is normally their back up wet, and then you see their gut come out.

But for me, I kind of have to keep in into that, keep that state in and keep that tight.

And by doing so, it keeps the detail, especially in my lower lats.

So then, the only thing that is lacking for me that they want me to improve is like the rhomboids, which is the upper mid-back.

But

doing that has allowed that bottom V to like pop out.

And I don't know,

I find that that interesting that y'all's new method is like you're standing up straighter.

I'm wondering if you've ever experimented with like trying to do that whole like crunch down in the lats or like a method that's a little bit harder.

Bringing it down, if that's what you mean.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I also thought like I'd look in the New York Pro, I was doing like, I was doing what he was doing.

Personally, I feel like he, he, he arches a lot when he does his back double, his upper, his upper back.

And so I was trying that.

And you know, I guess depending on the way your muscles are shaped, whether you insert,

you just try both and see what looks best.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I'm not a huge fan of it for my physique.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's dope, though, man.

And so fun if I see how posing changes your physique because it can make a world of different man.

Yeah.

Really?

It's crazy.

It's nuts.

But then when we're actually like on prep, we're so fucking exhausted to pose them in.

i swear to god yeah i'm definitely um

i'm definitely practicing a lot though because i know they're gonna have us pose a lot 100

yeah without a doubt we'll probably do three to five rounds of of posing

they

work they work y'all man

dude it's the best feeling in the world when you're you're up there in the first call outs and you guys are going through rounds and rounds of posing and you feel good and you see the other dudes start to get fucking winded.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No idea what you're talking about.

It is a good feeling.

How do you guys, or what does posing practice look like for you each week?

Honestly, it's pretty simple, man.

Like I practice

in the offseason, I usually just do like one round, maybe

two if I may, usually one.

If I want to do more just because I want to try something or see something, then I'll do that.

In prep, I'll start to do like three rounds and then

I'll start, you know, time-wise, very, very short, you know.

And then I'll increase the time.

I'll increase how long I hold each pose.

But I don't never do more than three rounds, but I'll hold the pose a little longer each week.

The other thing I like to do, man, is I'll do all the bodybuilding poses because I'm like, I would rather do too much, you know, in practice because because that'll just make it easier for when I'm on stage.

Because, like, oh, now I don't have to do a front light spread, a back lat spray, the most muscular, it's trust.

So there's like half the amount of poses.

And so I'm just on top of that, it's just a lot easier, right?

Yeah, that makes sense.

That's typically how I do it.

So three rounds, all the bodybuilding poses.

I probably won't ever go over 10 seconds of holding each pose, to be honest.

And that's about it.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

There's been like some new, I think one of the important things for me to learn recently has been like the whole keeping in mind like say uh an 80 keeping on a keeping on everything at about 80 when i'm on stage because i've noticed for me and anton it's too easy for us to like overdo it and over pose

yeah

to the point where like you're you're shaking a bit yeah okay yeah what are your thoughts on that No, for sure, that is a thing.

You can flex too hard and you start shaking.

I mean, the easiest way to do it, man, is like, say, for instance, like you do a couple body parts at a time and you just look at it.

You see how hard you need to flex to get the detail out of it, right?

And that's how hard you need to flex.

Yeah.

So that's the easy way to kind of check, check if you're doing things, you know, doing enough.

Yeah.

It can definitely just be challenging as you're like, especially when you're first starting off and learning it by trying to keep on like everything on, say, like in your back pose, like make sure your hams are on, your glutes are on, your fucking calves are on, your back's on, like making sure everything's on at the same time.

That shit can be fucking tough, dude.

Because I swear, like, I'll fucking, I'll turn my back, my lumbar on, my, my hamstrings on, but then, like, my glutes will turn off a little bit.

And I'm like, fuck, man.

No, it is tough.

It is tough, man, dude.

It is tough.

100%.

Like, especially if you don't have a good mind-muscle connection to a certain body part, it's like 10 times harder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I struggle, dude.

I still sometimes struggle to this day with my obliques because I, I think my worst mind-muscle muscle connection is with my my obliques and uh my upper glute and like the side poses so like it's a struggle man everything else i feel

really good biceps are not great but they've gotten good enough to where i can i can get them now nice but um

The easiest for me is my posterior chain, like the glutes, the hams, the back, that's always been pretty easy for me to get.

I'd have to say the abs is probably pretty tough for me too.

I think just getting like, because you know how like for the abs, it's just easy to change like what kind of structure and position they're in.

And like hitting that, hitting that pose in the right place, especially if you don't have the best ab genetics, can be kind of tough, honestly.

That makes sense.

So it's like making sure you're hitting the right percentage of like in versus out.

And that's something that like no matter even after like years of posing for Instagram to like look shredded for like videos and pics, still, it's like, I don't hit it perfectly every time.

Yeah, I get that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was wondering, because you know, we're always fucking hungry, depleted, and tired, and weak and everything during prep,

which is fun, especially when you have to do like an hour of posing practice.

But

pros and practice.

How do you manage cortisol?

Like, how do you rest and relax?

I'm a pretty chill person as it is.

I mean, I chill, but like, I was like,

I was working on reels.

That was relaxing for me earlier today.

Um, or playing video games.

Um, cause right now, dude, I feel like it's been like

for me, it's been really difficult to focus on anything.

Like, I've been trying to watch TV shows, and it's just like I'll have some TV show on.

I, I, I'll get distracted, I'll put something else on, I'll grab my phone, go through some Instagram,

and I'm like, I just feel like I've been on Instagram way too much lately.

So I was like, okay, let me play a video game so my hands are

occupied, right?

So that's been my best way to, like, for stress relief is just playing.

Like, I play a lot of RPGs.

So just doing that.

That's awesome.

I fucking love RPGs, bro.

I do.

Yeah.

Right now I'm replaying Cyberpunk.

So I'm going back through that.

Nice.

Yeah.

I used to be a huge RuneScape and Sotar fan.

I played RuneScape.

Yeah, the RuneScape was literally the first RPG I ever played.

Yeah.

Same.

For sure, bro.

I've been waking up in the middle of the night to grind to fucking cut wood and fucking kill spiders.

I'm shocked he's still around, man.

Like,

every time I hear about it, I'm like, what the fuck?

Bro, it's blowing up right now.

My friend, um, Sony Michael, who is a, he's like a, he's a gamer streamer and he's like doing RuneScape right now.

He used to be like Wow's best warrior, but, um, or um, porn warrior, but uh,

he

showed me the screenshot.

There's this guy who's using my name on RuneScape who's got like almost max stats everywhere and it's straight up just like niles face naga i'm like the dude that's a little weird that's

good at least it's good

i want to know what this guy looks like i hope he's jacked

holy

oh but yeah i mean that's about all i do man right now but i really do

enjoy working which which I when you know when I hopped on the podcast it was like I need to say no and not do as much because i actually i find it a lot of fun man um

just doing stuff yeah i don't know right now yeah man i'm glad i fucking i think uh it's cool to hear you on podcasts too like i really enjoyed the podcast you had with um classic music radio i love that jerk started that too i've been waiting for that man i i've been happy man like basically like the way it came to be was like

i've been wanting like i tried one like last year but me managing myself, I was like, I can't do it.

Right.

So, I put it out on my stories, like, someone should do this.

And then, my buddy Nick Bagley was, was like, oh, bro, I'll do it.

And I'm like, well, yo, like, I just want to show up.

Like, if you can manage it and do whatever, let's do it.

And then I chatted with Alex Toplin because I liked his podcast a lot.

Yeah.

And he's like, he gave me a lot of advice.

He was like, yeah, you're going to need like, and a minimum four people.

And then

you'll need an extra three people for when anytime a couple people of those four can't make it

and um yeah nick you know shout out to jared jared's been on there consistently shout out to nick um who who put it together and you know who was to stay on top of it you know so i love it dude i love because i i wanted a place for me to talk about classic physique and like there was

and there was no podcast with classic right right like there was mr zeke has mr zeke radio bodybuilding has you know phillips podcast yeah yeah yeah which is massive

for classic right and that's kind of something that i wanted to like i wanted to help contribute to because i just want classic to continue to grow just because c bum's not in it anymore i don't want it to be any different you know like i wanted to be just as hyped i wanted to be just as loved and um

given its flowers and so that's like why i've been trying my best to like have more and more classic

competitors and classic guys on the podcast because I just really want to help contribute to that.

So when I saw Classic Physique Radio come out, I was just like, oh, let's go.

Let's fucking push the shit.

We got one popping up tomorrow.

We got an episode tomorrow we're filming.

So, hopefully, we'll probably talk about the shows and whatnot.

Sounds like, looks like right now they want to do once a week.

I'm all like, I always like success leads clues, and I'm looking at Miss Physique Radio, and I know they do at least once a week, but sometimes they just hop on like that to cover something.

So, I'm trying to get them to do that.

But, you know, they got kids and lives and families.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just sitting here by myself all along.

I can do it any day.

It's funny as shit.

Honestly, that kind of brings me to Nask, how do you feel regarding your relationships and

just your relationships with friends and family when you're on prep?

Right.

I think

these last two or three weeks,

I think my relationships are good.

They all understand.

I've been doing this, I don't know, since 2013 now.

But

it does kind of suck.

Like during this part of prep, I talked about having a hard time focusing and paying attention on one thing.

I have to keep my conversations brief with them because one, I run out of stuff to talk about pretty quickly or I'll get distracted or things like that.

And it's funny too, because I'll want to talk to them, but I know if I call them, I'm not going to want to be on the phone very long and I'm not going to have much to say.

I mean, like, it would be nice if they were in person and you could just be in their presence.

But it's like, ah, you know.

But I am getting better because in the past, I didn't know how to politely hang up the phone.

So I'll just kind of get irritated with them being on the phone

forever.

So now I'll say we'll chat.

I don't know.

But now we'll chat.

And once I'm out of stuff and once they're out of stuff, I'm like, all right, talk to you later, just real quick.

So I'm getting better with that.

But overall, the relationships are good.

It's just the last couple of weeks where it's just like, oh, you know, I can't really communicate much with them.

Even with my guy, my friend in the gym,

like, I'm very aware.

Like, sometimes I can be short.

Like, I'm never mean, but like, I know sometimes I just don't feel like talking.

Right.

So I'll.

I'll try to go to the gym a little earlier, you know, because I don't want to have people walking on eggshells or anything like that.

And, you know, if they do see me in the gym, like I still see them,

I'll,

you know, speak, we'll still speak.

You know, I'll still say, hey, I'll still stop what I'm doing and have a good conversation,

even if I don't feel like it.

But, you know, you still need to realize like, yo, these people care about you.

And like, it's, it's a couple minutes of your day, right?

Right.

And they're there for you, man.

Like, like, regardless of anything, man.

My friends are good people.

So, um, if I ever need anything or, or anything like that, they're always there.

That's respectful as fuck, man.

Because, yeah,

um, I was just real as I was fucking telling this to my friends yesterday.

I just, I might have even been filming it on YouTube or whatever,

but just being real as fuck, man,

I will have this feeling on prep, especially like the last few weeks, where I will find myself like, if I'm getting DMs from people being like,

like, supporting, or even just like reaching out, or asking how I'm doing, or just like,

or even if it's not related to prep, I'll just be getting DMs from people that I know or that are friends or whatever.

I'll find myself feeling more irritated.

No, for sure.

Yeah, no.

I mean, it's not a good feeling, but like,

I'm irritated, but like, I won't show that out, you know.

Right.

Like, I'm like, how you feeling?

I'm like,

I'm good.

That's the one I hate.

That's the one I hate.

How you feeling?

Good, man.

I don't know.

But yeah, yeah.

I hate it, man.

Because I really appreciate it.

I really appreciate that, man.

We got to.

They got our backs and shit.

But I'm just like.

Fuck, dude.

I don't have the energy.

I should just go on something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I go to the gym and then people like, that's like where people are talking all the time for some reason.

And I just like,

I don't know, I just can't, it's hard for me to get out of the mindset of like, I'm in here to fucking work and I got to get in and I got to get out and I got to be quick and I got to be prompt and I got to time my rests.

And

it sucks because it's like, you want to be there for the people and you want to be able to give space because the people that were there for me, you know, I will always appreciate that.

And I always remember that.

Like Joe Stetix, for example, before he passed away, that guy gave so much energy, even though it was clear that like, man, he's super busy.

He's always like grinding, super working really hard.

But then someone would come up to the gym during one of our workout sessions, for example, and he would literally stand and talk to them for like 30 minutes.

And I'd be like, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

He gives like, like, he'd just give random people that he didn't know, like, the time of day all the time.

And that was just a very impressive, laudable thing that I saw that, unfortunately, I know I just can't give, but I wish I could.

I think there's a happy medium there because obviously you got guys like Joe, but then you got guys that are fucking mean, bro.

They're just like, yo, don't talk to me right now.

Yeah.

And for me, like, I like to, so

I'll, if someone comes up to me, I'm more than happy to chat with them for a bit.

But like

I still prioritize myself.

So like I'll chat with them during the rest period.

And then once that time's up, I say, hey, like, I might even give them an extra minute or two.

But once that time's up, like, like, I'm like, hey, man, like, I got to get back to the set.

If you want to chat more, like when I'm done, you know, I got some free time or anything like that.

I'm always

give them an option, like, hey, you know,

something's happening right now.

But, you know, if you're cool with waiting, I can do option B, right?

Sometimes they take it up.

Sometimes they don't.

You know, it is what it is.

But.

Yeah, I can't do 30.

I can't do 30.

30 minutes is crazy, bro.

It was wild.

Honestly.

I will remember him for that, though.

I do respect that.

I remember when he was reaching out to me, too, when I was first blowing up and stuff, and he was always checking in on me and trying to give me advice on what to post and stuff to get more exposure.

It was cool.

He was a really nice guy.

Anyways,

you know what?

Are you going to be staying at the

What is it?

There's a Renaissance hotel and then the

host hotel.

You're not going to be staying staying there?

I never say that.

They never have a kitchen.

Dude, I was supposed to say

this hotel right next door called the Alara,

but I got a message this morning saying it was canceled because I had my expired card on file and now I can't re-book it.

So

I wanted to be in the same, me and my coach had planned to be in the same hotel together.

But unfortunately, I can't.

So

I was a little, you know, it's crazy, man.

Like, there's been a lot of

obstacles this prep, but like, nothing's really stressed me out, right?

I mean, like, yeah, I would love to be right next door to my coach if possible, but like,

you know, we've done preps where he's not even in town, you know?

So it's about a 20-minute drive.

It's the best I could find.

And I'm like, it is what it is.

I got an extra bedroom if he wants to stay tonight.

Any night he wants to stay.

In case you want to leave that nice hotel.

Wink, wink.

That's dope, though, man.

You're fucking awesome about managing the stress, though, and like keeping a good mentality about it.

Something I admire.

Thank you, man.

Something I struggle with, bro.

I'm fucking an anxious fuck.

I know it's like, man, most things that I used to stress about didn't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, right?

Yeah.

Like, so I got him like, well, it didn't really matter that much at that time.

So,

yeah.

That's dope.

man I wish I could be like that bro swear to god

I'm pretty sure next show I'm gonna have to take some to Bivolol or something before I go off

I'm about to die out of a heart attack

bro what do you what do you do you listen to anything or do you have like anything you do backstage like before you go on I probably I fucking should I remember when I was getting my pro card I used to just listen to like my favorite songs and just like I listen to like stuff like that.

I listen to relaxing music, whether it's like ocean waves or classical music or whatever, lo-fi,

something man, to keep my because I don't get nervous, but I get anxious.

I hate waiting around, I get anxious

from waiting around.

You go on stage, and then you got to wait an hour to go back.

And I'm just like, what do I do with myself?

Yeah,

so I think that helps me.

Yeah, cool.

That helps, man.

I really appreciate you actually suggesting that because I think the problem was

there's no no knock to Christian because I probably I just couldn't have done this without Christian.

And obviously, you know, he helped me put together this routine and helped me get confident with opposing.

And I just have so much thanks to him.

But he definitely tends to be a high energy individual backstage.

I don't need that.

No.

So I'll just communicate with that, that with him that like I just unfortunately probably won't work very well with that next time if he is around.

But the ocean waves, I think, sounds like a lot better of an attack for me.

Yeah.

I think Nick talked about that with one of his coaches.

I think with Dom, he said he was just too high energy as a coach, and that's why he likes Kyle a bit more.

That makes sense.

Like, yeah, I think, yeah, yeah.

So it's totally fair.

What do you pack with you to your competitions?

Like, what are you going to pack to Olympia?

I need to get a list together.

It's me all the time.

I mean, mean, clothes.

I actually like to bring all my food for the most part.

So I'm going to cook everything here.

Yeah.

Freeze it.

And then usually

it's fine on a flight to throw it in the fridge once I land.

Nice.

So that's one big thing I like to do.

Is it that?

How big of a bag is that?

Like all the frozen food?

For like the whole week?

It's not too much.

It's usually like

maybe like two to three

zip gallon Ziplocs.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And you're just like, you don't pair it by meal yet.

Do you just pair it by like the meats and then the rice?

Yeah, gotcha.

Yeah, I might.

So with rice, I don't worry.

I actually cook that there.

I usually just buy a rice cooker and cook it once I get there.

Yeah.

It's always funny, man.

My buddy Roy, he's like 10 years older than me.

And like,

he's super nice, man.

He's like, yo, if you need anything at the show, you need us to go to the grocery store, do this or do that, just let us know.

And like, nah, man, I'm good.

Cause, like, all I do is Instacart shit, right?

I just have it.

I feel like it's prepping so much easier now.

Like, I listened to like Lee Labrada talk about it, where they would bring their wives overseas to shows, and their wives would have to go, like, rush to the meat market to go get meat because

like they would run out because of the body bills.

Or like he would have to bring his, his, he would have to bring his water drugs with him overseas.

And just shit like that, bro.

Like, he, I'm like, dude, we got it so much easier now compared to guys in like the 80s and maybe 90s uh

see i just i just cook everything um i would love to bring these lights with me uh for check-ins but they're a little big so i might be able to bring my tube lights uh or i might just order some uh they're like a hundred bucks i might do that to the airbnb

Sometimes I'll bring a video game, but a lot of times like my Nintendo switch but a lot of times i don't even touch it so i'm like it's just taking on space i don't even play it

i always tell myself i got because i'm like i got all this free time i'll probably get bored i never get bored like i ain't no watching tv or sleeping or just doing nothing right i'm all with it right yeah so

i think that's about everything i'll bring i feel like i spend more time almost sometimes being more particular about like every like

I don't know, something about peak week with like every meal and timing and just supplement i have to take at a certain time i feel like that ends up taking like a majority of my day somehow yeah you end up being really somehow really busy but like honestly like at the time i don't i don't know but yeah somehow you end up being really busy yeah it's weird you know another cool thing man this is not like

i guess completely to the topic but like i i've this was the first year i got custom trunks made Because normally I used to always get my trunks from like a trunk company.

Wait.

But this time I got them like custom made for me.

Is it Dorian's company?

No, it's no, it's not a company.

Oh, no, no, I just get it from this lady, she doesn't have an Instagram or anything.

Oh, that's awesome!

Yeah, yeah,

it was so funny.

He's like, this dude was like, Oh, I got the trunks you wore at the show.

I was like, No, you don't, you don't have because I used to be with Chula, right?

And like, the trunks are good, but I just thought about it, man.

I was like, Look, I'm going on the biggest stage in the world, like, this is my job.

Why wouldn't I get something just made specifically for me?

Right.

Yeah,

I love them, dude.

Like, they're perfect.

Like, you might like, you'll probably start seeing these a lot more often.

But I have, like, you know, bodybuilders, they usually have the butt scrunching and ladies usually have the butt scrunch.

So I have that, but I also have it tapered slightly in the front as well.

So there's more of a bead because most, most posing trunks are just straight.

Yeah.

V front and back.

That's dope.

Yeah, yeah.

So I really, really like them.

I haven't seen many people wear them at all.

Yeah.

That's tough, man.

Fuck.

I'm excited to see you on stage.

Yeah, I had a fucking journey with fucking getting trunks, man.

It was terrible.

Like, fucking, I got these trunks from Amazon and I'm like, they're decent.

They're decent, but they're from Amazon.

So I want to try something else.

Right.

And so

Lexi saw that James English posted one and she was like, yeah, Niles trunks are really gay.

So

can you like send him what these trunks are?

And he's like, yeah.

So he sent them to me and they're Iron Eagle trunks.

So I got those.

I got the Iron Eagle trunks in 1.5 inch

and I ended up having to pay like an extra 50 bucks for tariff tariffs or something by the time it got there.

If you need my lady, man, let me know.

I'll send her info.

She does.

She just does it by request.

So anytime someone asks me, I just

send them her phone number.

Damn.

She just works.

Thank you bro i appreciate that hookup man

i'll probably definitely have to take you up on that because i

i have no good options right now i'm i'm i've i've had to stick with the amazon ones basically so oh wow which was decent for yesterday but there could be better for sure okay okay these kind of go way too much up my butt crack

That's the thing, dude.

So, like, especially like, even though you're like, as a pro, man, you should, you want something that fits you properly.

And I think, like, having like

more options or custom-made stuff is a good idea.

Like,

everyone's booty is shaped different.

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense, man.

I'm just glad I don't got a Jared Feather booty.

That shit would be tough to play with.

Bro, yeah, yeah.

Cause I mean.

Yeah, so everyone, yeah, you can see the difference in shapes very quickly.

I always joke with him that I wish I had that dumb truck.

But honestly,

don't know what kind of fucking trucks you'd have to find.

I was hoping to ask this because this is kind of related to what we were discussing earlier about how

some of these coaches' methods

of

sinking the competitors down, especially if they're way over the weight cap.

in order to make weight, but then it also brings like a kind of slightly different package or almost a more conditioned defined package in a way.

Obviously, we don't have to discuss this if

we don't really have to discuss this, but

Hyacinth on our pod together told me that he doesn't like to use orals and he tries to avoid them at all costs.

So I was wondering, Patrick is a little bit similar regarding certain ones.

And basically what happened with our prep, which I'm totally open to discussing,

which seemed to be a good example is that we didn't use any Anivar.

We didn't use any Windstroll.

He actually feels like Windstroll.

he's not he thinks windstrol is a little overrated uh especially because of the the lipids hewing and because of the joint issues and inflammation um

so i mean really the only oral we ended up using was revirin and then some halo towards the end so

which is kind of like the least amount of orals i've really ever used on any enhanced prep that I've done to be honest, which was interesting, you know, and my digestion was pretty good the entire time.

So, I was just curious if there was any orals that you guys do implement, or has there been any that you found that you guys have like that has worked specifically for your body?

We do Proviron and we also do Anivar as well.

Okay.

Yeah, I remember our first prepped together.

I was, uh, I had started Halo, and

Yeah, my body did not like it at all.

I started to like balloon up like a water buffalo.

Yeah.

At the time, I didn't know why.

And then I had him look at everything.

Once he cut that out, things started to go really well again.

So that's the only two we've ever, we've ever used in a prep.

That's cool to hear, man.

I really love, like, I think one of the things that my audience and I really enjoy hearing is, I mean, even though it's tough to discuss sometimes because everyone's different, I think that's the reason it's so interesting is hearing how every competitor has their own reactions and experiences to different substances and supplements.

Because I think that's just kind of what bodybuilding makes bodybuilding so intricate and complicated is that it really isn't just a one-style template plan that you can give everybody you really have to like learn your own body specifically something that Quinton Quinton and I were discussing because obviously Quinton has competed in this last season doing pretty fucking well even though I fucking hate that he's getting second place back to fucking back

this fucking weekend man

But like, you know, Quinton's learned his body and he decided to finally trust his gut this time.

And I think it paid off.

I think he's bringing some amazing packages to his shows, but it all comes from the experience that we've got from like writing in our notes, like how we react to things,

how much food should we be eating at a certain time, you know, how do we react to sodium and water, like all of these different variables.

So it's been cool to hear that, like, even like you and for example, Hayastine talks about like there's this guy that this client he had that almost like reacted just terribly to all mastron in general.

He had a woman that just reacted terribly to all provo, all primo in general.

Like it's not a, it's not a bodybuilding isn't isn't all about the drugs, you know?

It's not, it's about everything.

It's like a full encompassing story of every single thing, every variable that you're adding in.

And from Kurt Havens and I's last podcast too, I've learned, well, I haven't learned, but it's been cool that we've been able to agree that training is a lot more important than people tend to think.

For sure, for sure.

It's funny, man, because like my total dosages

haven't increased.

I would say they've probably decreased from when I very first started, like 10 years ago to now.

The biggest changes have been my training.

And

me personally, it's been a lot less volume.

And each time I've dropped my volume, I've gained significant amounts of weight.

I personally, yeah, I'm a big fan of training.

It makes a huge difference.

And I say that with the grain of salt in terms of like, if you're growing, doing what you're doing, and you're, you know, doing just fine, growing, then don't change anything.

But if you're someone like me, or if you're having trouble to grow, like if you're hitting plateaus very early in your career, then I personally do think like you need to take a closer look at your, your training, right?

Yeah.

And I noticed, man, most people, when they say they're looking at their training, either one, they're, they're not tracking anything.

That's probably a big thing.

Two, they say they're like, oh, I'm training a lot harder, you know, this body part.

And I'm like,

you should have been training hard from the start.

You know, if your level of effort was like a five, then I don't know, man.

Like,

when I was coaching, they would always say, What do I need to focus on?

I'm like, well, we already have your plan set up to what you need to focus on, right?

And he said, well, I could just push a lot harder on that muscle.

I'm like, fucking, bro, why weren't you already pushing hard on that muscle to begin with?

You know, like, what do you mean?

You can, you want to push harder?

So,

what do you mean?

mean

i'm like dude like that's that's the standard like

like effort so uh

yeah man i definitely think uh

learning from hypertrophy coach i don't know if you've ever had him on but uh he might be a good person to have on eventually yeah

just training made a huge difference for me like throughout my entire career yeah

yeah yeah i would love to have him on honestly that's a great idea i always thought about it i always forgot

one he's hard to get a hold of because he's a family man he's always like, like, that's number one.

And number two, he's going to give me some long answers, man.

Some long, long answers.

Yeah.

I'm down for it.

The less talking, the better for me.

I really liked, I actually saw that on your story, too,

about,

I think someone posted, pretty sure I screenshot it.

Try to find it.

Oh, yeah.

Dude, that was a great, that was such a cool answer.

So someone asked you a Q ⁇ A on your like quite on your

story, like what, today or yesterday?

And it was like, do you think your old way of training built your base?

And you said, I got up to 157 with very high volume six times a week and plateaued for a year.

I got up to 170 on a PPL variant five-day split installed.

Now I'm in the 180s training four times a week.

We'll keep you updated of weight gain stalls with this.

You add a little text next time is full body once a week.

Well, dude, that was the best way for me.

That question was a little, I know a lot of people ask, that's the thing in bodybuilding, like, oh, he didn't build his base doing this program and i'm like okay well how can i explain this to him in a in a reasonable way right and that was the best way i could think to to like explain it to him you know right i don't know what the base is to be honest it's always that's such an interesting question to me because i'm like you guys realize that most of us improve like we all improve we all get better like we all do things that we wish we were doing like probably 10 years ago like bro like the reason why i'm lacking in my back and i've talked about this in my youtube videos already a bunch of times that that i believe this to be true.

And then the judges validated it yesterday with the feedback that I need to bring all my muscle up in general.

But if there's one area I have to work on, it's the mid-back depth, that mid-back thickness.

And that upper mid-back thickness is something that I did not train right for the last 15 years because I would row things to row.

So basically, you know, you just, the rowing movement, most people think is like, you know, you're just bringing, you're contracting your biceps, you're contracting your rear delts, you're you're just bringing your elbows back.

But what I wouldn't do is I wouldn't do the whole Arnold or Ronnie Coleman, like full stretch forward, full scapula, and then all the way back, full contraction.

And they're literally like their low, you can see their lumbar like going like this, but you also see like the fucking shoulder blades just going like this.

And I realized I was doing it wrong when I filmed a back workout with Dr.

Todd Lee because he, when I did it, I was like, when he was doing it, his whole fucking chest was hyperextending, coming up at the very end, and then stretching out.

But I only did the stretch a little bit.

And then I like, I was like, what the fuck was it?

What the fuck?

I was just looking at the reps and then I was like, what the fuck am I doing, man?

My reps look like shit.

Like, like, my back does not look like it's contracting at all.

It looks like it's just in an isometric position.

And I'm just rowing it until it's like touching my chest.

But I could actually completely scapula retract.

And then I could completely extend.

And I just haven't been doing that.

And when I started doing that a couple couple months ago i was having soreness in my mid-back that i was not feeling for years

and it just

and then they told me the feedback yesterday and i'm like yeah i know i know yeah i know so should have been doing that with training years ago

well bro that's good though man that you you recognize that because i've seen so many pros over the years like they won't place well or something and then they they act like they have zero idea what they need to work on i'm like bro that's that's a

huge issue.

If you can't critically look at your physique and see weaknesses, you just look at yourself and you're like, oh, I'm perfect.

I don't know why I'm winning the show.

I'm not winning shows.

I'm like, bro, that's like, I personally feel like that's a huge disconnect, right?

Yeah.

Like,

I always think the best people can always, you know, pick apart their physiques and see where they need to improve.

Like, it's always good to have the judges, you know,

reaffirm that know that you're moving in the right direction, you know, but you at least need to have that awareness yourself as well.

Because the judges aren't going to be in the gym with you every single day.

You get judges' feedback a couple times a year at most.

Yeah, I agree.

Are you down to move to some of the QAs real quick and then we'll finish up?

Yeah, sure.

I really like your QA's that you had on your story, by the way, honestly.

Yeah, I always try to like

sometimes

answer the ones I want to answer.

Sometimes, like, sometimes they people ask me stuff and I get really annoyed with the questions.

I know they've come from a good place, but the one I hate is like, what do you think of this person?

And I'm like, bro, like,

I'm like, one, you're pigeonholing me at because

I'm not going to say anything negative.

So you're wanting me to praise this person 100%.

Right.

And like half the time I don't know him.

So all I'm

left with is, yeah, he has an awesome physique.

that's about all I can say

you know what I mean like like what do you want me to do

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Anyway, I really...

I really liked your answer, though.

One of the questions was like, if you could no longer train, how would you define yourself outside of bodybuilding?

And it's something we kind of like discussed earlier in the beginning of our pod when I was like asking you about you know what would you bring to bodybuilding, and you were like, Well, you know, there's so much outside of bodybuilding that I want to do and that I want to bring, and I want to bring bodybuilding outside of that realm.

And um,

I didn't know that you created art, to be honest,

like traveling the world.

Uh, I mean, I used to paint, I sold a couple, not a lot, but I sold a couple down here.

What the fuck?

You know, I do, I do, I got accepted to like uh

an art school, and I wanted to go to SCAD,

Savannah Carl College of Art and Design, but I got talked out of it

before I got to the phone.

Who the fucked you out of it?

I don't remember who anymore, but basically it was like.

Yeah, well, fuck him.

I mean, I've done photography on and off.

So

right now, artistically, I'm not doing a whole bunch of anything, but

Yeah, yeah, like ever since I was a kid.

I mean, I think I have some old photos here.

I mean, I don't have a ton.

I lost most of them, but

I still have a couple of pictures

of my old

drawings and whatnot.

Let's see if it's here.

Okay, here we go.

This is

fucking, it's me drawing Black Panther right there.

Oh, that's oh, bro.

That's fucking tough, dude.

Like, Joker right there.

That's fucking sick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I was, I was,

like, I stopped very early.

So, like, I feel like I was above average, but like, I wasn't like great at it.

Yeah.

For some reason in my mind, too, man, I was like, well, this is as good as I'm ever going to be.

I don't know why.

In my mind, I was like, I can't improve anymore in art.

I just thought this is, this is the talent I'm giving, and this is how good it is.

And this is where it is, you know.

Yeah, it is what it is.

But that's funny.

Yeah, yeah, I used to do a lot of that.

I mean, I did, I have a photography page that I haven't done anything with in like two years.

I remember you doing photography like a couple years back when I was following you.

Um,

I feel I feel like that translated to your content as well because I remember you being one of the few good pro classic pros that had good fucking shots.

Bro, I was there was a period,

yeah, there was a period where I was killing it with photos and content and stuff.

Like, yeah, I was really, really happy with how everything is going.

It's funny that you said that about art too, because I was

I was very into art when I was a kid and I started, like, I would drew, I created my own art as well

and was taking classes and shit.

And I remember getting to a point, even just like as a child, where I was like, I feel like it's getting really hard to get any better.

Like, it's like you're like, you're given this talent that you're just really good at from the start.

And then all of a sudden, it's like

it's kind of not really going anywhere, you know?

It's just like fucking plateauing here.

It's weird.

No, yeah.

All right.

These questions.

Austin SB asks how to balance opening the gym sponsors while prepping for the OK.

Yeah, I know.

Austin's a good dude.

Yeah, Austin's cool.

How balance the gym

while prepping for it?

What was it?

Gym and what else?

How to balance opening the gym sponsors while prepping for the O.

Okay.

Dude,

I don't know, man, but like

a lot of

the prep aspect of things has gotten a lot, it's gotten pretty easy, you know?

You know, cooking my meals, doing cardio, training, you know, there's people that have day jobs that do that already, right?

I mean, I did it while I served, I did two Olympias while in the Air Force.

Ronnie Coleman did,

you know, a couple while he was a police officer.

And there's plenty of Olympians that still work day jobs, you know.

So I don't, I don't,

just those two things is, it's not too, too difficult.

The gym, I've been blessed.

Like, we talked about like,

you know, it's just so happened that all the horror stuff was done a lot earlier in prep.

And right now I'm in a process of like not having to do anything.

But even

with that being said, like I have a team now.

And it's funny when I was in New York, I talked to Steve about this.

And he, and I told him, like, in 2022, when I went from second to sixth,

that was largely because I overextended myself, right?

I had the coaching business.

I had three coaches and 300 athletes,

like a,

plus a team of people in the background.

I think like a team of five, like people like editing content, like

content planning, business planning, all that good stuff.

And like, I was working 12-hour days and I just did not stop, you know,

like I had a quote unquote team, but it wasn't the right team.

They didn't lead me in the right direction.

And I didn't think to myself that I needed to stop either because I'm not the type to just like

stop doing things.

So, you know, this time around, I have a much better team.

Like they're handling things for me at the moment in terms of whatever it is that I need.

They also understand a lot clearer that like, hey, these last few weeks of prep are important.

And no matter what it is with the business, if I don't do well on stage, then it's not going to translate very well, right?

My business a fucking hard hit, like, from second to sixth place.

Like, fucking, like, it was very, it was drastically different in my life from second to sixth place.

So, understanding that, understanding that as well, like, no matter, no, that stuff can wait.

Like, because that stuff runs off of how I do a shows.

At least for me, not everyone's that way, but for me, that's how it works.

That's pretty transparent to say, honestly, because I feel like most people don't want to admit that.

My money got like cut in half

for two years.

Now it's starting to get a little bit better again.

And it's crazy enough, man.

It's even better than when I was placed in second.

I think just because the sport has grown so much.

But

yeah, I think like the

sum it up because I've been rambling.

Number one, you need a good team for 100%.

You know when to, you need to take a learn when you need to take a step back from things that aren't getting you closer to your main goal, you know, getting on that lipid stage and placing well.

And

relaying to the people that are in your circle that, hey, for the next few weeks, that this is, this is what I need to focus on.

So those are the three things I think I've done pretty well.

The last thing I would say is you know a show is coming up.

Do your best to get a lot of stuff done before you get to those last couple of weeks.

Like, we did all the stuff in terms of R D for the equipment,

in terms of sponsors.

They had me fly out for a bunch of this content already that they're posting up.

If I need to work on content a bit, if I was a little bit better, I would have taken a lot more stuff earlier.

But I think I've done a pretty good job.

I got a lot.

I got pretty much everything I need to post for the next two weeks, luckily,

because they've flown out some people to shoot me.

And even if they didn't, oh, oh, they flown out people to shoot me.

And then

about two weeks ago, for my own business, like the gym, I paid this guy to film like

10 reels for the gym upcoming.

So we have all that ready to go

for when I can't go.

So I think it's just preparation as well, preparing for that moment.

Okay, cool.

That's great advice.

William3C says, love you guys.

Would love to hear more about Terrence's Terrence's training split and nutrition more in-depth in PEDs.

So I guess for your four-time training split, or your four-time, your four-time training split, your four-time a-week training split, like what does that look like right now?

Okay, so if they want to, real quick, if they want to get like the whole philosophy behind it, is

check out Chris Beersley and Paul Carter's podcast.

I forget what it's called, but it's on Spotify and all the different channels.

Lift Run Bing.

Yeah, yeah.

He's

yeah.

He could be a little, he could be a little hard-headed, but like, like,

you know, anyway.

So right now, like, yes, torso

appendage or torso limbs, whatever you want to call it.

On the torso day, we do chest, back, and delts.

So like six exercises, two for chest, two for back,

two for delts.

Honestly, I usually do seven because I like to do erectus.

So it ends up being seven most days.

Um,

for limbs, I'll do two

triceps, one bicep, one branchialis,

and for legs,

um,

two quads, so like a squat variation and a leg extension,

and then

um, a hamstring curl, and usually like an RDL.

So,

on one day, I'll do uh

just seated leg curls

and then on the next slim day i'll do lion leg curls and rdls just because they work different ranges of the muscle so

that's the split monday tuesday thursday friday is it the same kind of rdl

uh yeah dude i have a weird thing with my uh psoas muscle like the muscle deep in you and so

I would always try to do RDLs and I kept, it kept getting really like injured and tight.

I've done the so right stuff.

I've stretched, I've massaged, it just never helped.

So

I ended up buying the glute builder RDL hyper ascension machine.

Nice.

And it actually helped a lot, man.

I haven't had any issues since using that for whatever reason.

Maybe because there's more bracing involved.

Yeah.

I don't use.

That's my guess.

But yeah, best purchase I've had.

Bro, I'm a similar way.

And so I just don't do RDLs.

Instead, I do

glute hand raises.

Yeah, yeah.

So the same thing.

That's just annoying.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Those are awesome, man.

Yeah.

And like, no pain.

No, so,

and after the show, I'm going to try to add a fifth day.

I've tried to add like a whole other day, like five.

Like that was too much for me, to be honest.

So my next time around, I'm going to just choose like three exercises to do on that fifth day.

So whatever's most important to me, do those.

And yeah.

Nice.

Cool.

Andy Morales asks, how's the transplant going?

And are you taking Fin Minoxidil or doing anything for the hair?

I'm taking Minoxidil.

I need to, I was going to go ahead and start the roux.

855,

whatever the number is.

It's pretty good.

It's still a bit thin, to be honest.

How long has it been?

It's been like a year, I think.

Normally, it's like a year and a half, right?

Until it's like completely filled in.

I guess, but

I don't know.

Prep has not helped.

I had like a bunch, a bunch fall out in the back like a couple, like a week ago.

I was really sad about it.

Like, bro, it was like, it was like, cause my hair was like doing really well, but like, it was, it was like a lot longer than this.

Yeah.

And then I guess because of prep, it's just started.

I started.

Prep is rough, man.

Bro, it was like, I was like, holy shit.

So,

yeah, I'm going to do the roux and see how that works.

But it is a lot.

I don't regret it.

It's way better than what it was before, but it's just not perfect.

Like, I look at how thick Chris and Ian's hair is, and there's, because we all went to the same person.

Yeah, now her time, right?

Yeah.

That's what I think.

Hair texture is probably a big deal to do it.

And then they're done competing.

So both of those things probably played apart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The done competing thing probably definitely helps with the moisturizing of the hair.

But

I don't, I think it's good.

Yeah.

It's looking pretty good to me, man.

It's looking pretty fresh.

I'm excited to do now hair time this December, honestly.

I just, um, they, the, my judge, the judges made me like rethink it for a second because the female judge was like, we love your hair.

And I was like, oh, shit.

Really?

Actually, though?

Bro, it's just the recovery process.

The recovery process sucks, man.

I remember,

yeah, it's just, it just looks bad for a long time.

Yo, I gotta say, though, I had the pod with Jordan Hutchinson.

Um, and dude, you two, both of you guys have had this weird, crazy, awesome experience where you guys had to go through a surgery or hair transplant or whatever kind, like his was gyno surgery, and you had to come off of training and everything, training, food PDs, just bodybuilding in general for like a couple weeks or several weeks, and then you come back and you guys just like absorb everything.

Like the training stimulus is just

it was crazy when I get 100.

Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I want to try that this time because Patrick and I were planning to have a good health phase, and we we missed our health phase, man.

It was like by the time the health phase was, it was like, oh shit, we only have four weeks.

And Patrick's like, it's not going to be enough time, it's not going to be worth it anymore.

So I feel like this would, you know, just kill two birds with one stone, get a transplant, also just come off of training for a little bit, and hopefully I'll absorb the stimulus of training with just,

you know, having had taken all those weeks weeks off.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

You guys both blew the fuck up.

So.

Yeah,

man.

It was crazy.

This year has been nuts, man.

Honestly, just in bodybuilding in general.

Yeah.

Your fucking, dude, your improvements in your physique are awesome.

Like, not to blow fucking smoke up your ass and shit, but the fucking back, man, the back and the arms have calmed the fuck up.

Really.

And it's counterpartuity.

Like, you would never think doing less would would get you more results man but right because dude i remember when i was young dude i was doing like the the the the workouts i saw uh in the magazines like lee priest had it was like fucking four bicep movements four tricep movements i'm doing that for like two hours and i'm like bro and uh no that's didn't work for me yeah right it's crazy man i think i'm just I think a lot of us are learning to like to prioritize our rest more, honestly.

That's probably one of the biggest factors as well.

It's just like some of us just aren't, even on the rest days, we're still working, we're still in that sympathetic state, and that's just so counterintuitive to our growth, even though it's so hard to just force yourself to relax and not do shit.

We want to be on Instagram, we want to have our dopamine going, we want to be doing work, we want to be productive, but in the end, you gotta rest.

Time off, yeah, yeah.

This is an interesting one because I don't even know the answer to this, but Muscles Marinera89 asks, asks, is Proviron necessary during contest prep?

Necessary?

No.

I mean, that's nothing really necessary.

Yeah, there's nothing necessary, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, my first few years, I never used Proviron.

I did fine.

Yeah.

I honestly, like, sometimes I'm just wondering, like, how helpful it even is.

Like, I just see it in plans all the time, but I'm just like, is it really doing that?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Freeing up a little test.

Like, what the fuck is that?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I guess why not?

Yeah, if you got it in a budget, why not?

If you don't, don't stress it.

Yeah.

M Harnett asks, what movements have helped you bring up your back width in particular?

So this is cool, man.

So like, I want to challenge people, man.

Like, don't think in like width or thickness.

Think in terms of muscle groups, right?

So what muscles make you look wider?

Usually you're talking about your lats.

So like your question really is what exercises are going to help me grow my lats.

Yeah.

So like a like

frontal plane, like pull downs, any type of of pull down, honestly, and then any type of row working your lats, right?

So

think of muscles like, that'll make life so much simpler in terms of thinking width and thickness.

Think about what muscle you want to grow and what exercises work that muscle.

It'll completely just make life simple for you, right?

So assuming that he is like trying to say that, like what movements brought up your lats specifically, though.

What specific kind of movements did you utilize yourself that worked for your body?

It doesn't work for everybody, of course, but

it could be interesting.

A lot of the single arm pull-downs, close to the body here, in the midline.

I've done the same with roles,

very close, tucked elbows.

Only other thing is like, really, we really prioritize finding good machines, which you know, not everyone can do.

You still see progress if you don't have like a prime row or something like that, or a novelist explode pull down.

Yeah.

But that does help a bit.

Like having something that's a little bit heavier in the LinkedIn range versus the shortened range will help if you have the option.

If not, don't stress.

You still can grow less, you know.

But those two movements in general is what I've done for years.

You know, yeah.

Cool.

All right.

Yeah.

I've heard the same thing.

I talked when I talked to Michael DeBull and

I don't remember who else was having trouble bringing up Billance.

Maybe it was Dr.

Todd, but some of these guys found it beneficial for themselves to honestly just go ahead and just do the underhand grip for most of the single arm exercises just because it seemed to help them, I think, do the external rotation of that elbow.

Yeah, but if you do, if you do underhand grip,

it's the elbow, but yeah, if doing the underhand will keep you, keep you tucked.

Right.

Yeah, without having to think about it as much if it's something that's hard for you to engage, I guess.

It hasn't ever been a problem for me personally, but um,

I just tried it myself and I could see how it's definitely easier to not have to think about it

for sure.

For sure, it definitely simple dumb stupid.

Yeah, so yeah, that's that's the easiest way to, what he said, guys.

Yeah.

Ebby Duck says, asks, what's the perfect specimen's trick for keeping the waist so tight?

I don't do anything, man, to be honest with you.

I'm assuming you do, like,

you're obviously, you obviously care about like your GI health and like your digestive system, though.

Yeah, obviously.

So, I mean, I've never had any.

I've never had any real issues with my digestive health.

So that's probably a huge part of of it.

Just not having any issues in general.

But I've never done anything in particular.

Like, I know a lot of guys were the waist,

the waist, what do we call those?

I don't know what the things are called.

Waist trainers.

Yeah.

Of course, there we go.

The OG name.

But yo, waist trainers.

I know some, I know back in the day, I don't know if it's still a thing anymore.

People would avoid like squats and deadlifts.

I've never, I've never avoided heavy weights like that.

I think the only thing I don't do is like just heavy oblique exercises.

That'd be the only thing I avoid, but I still train my abs.

Like, I still train, just uh, like do crunches, like cable crunches and leg paces.

Um,

but yeah, I think the biggest thing is digestive health.

Like, I've seen, and I think

from what I've seen, I've seen guys like in the late, you know, 2010s have these crazy bubble guts.

And then, once they got called out for it, they fixed it.

Guys like Roly Winkler or Ben Pukowski.

And I just think it's just because they paid attention to it.

They fixed their gut health.

They actually trained their ass.

They did vacuums and they were good.

I think that's a huge part of it.

I agree.

Christian Bicarter asks, What improvements since your last Mr.

O do you think are going to impress the judges the most?

Just the size, man.

I'm a lot.

I'm like, dude, I look at the picture picture like from 2023 and I'm shocked that I even placed fifth.

Like, I was, I was small.

Like,

it's like 170 pounds, right?

The transformation is crazy, bro.

Yeah, like,

I mean, that's the biggest difference, you know.

So, to be honest with you, like, like, I had no, like, I had no hamstring at the time.

My arms were really small.

I just, it was just all around.

Just like, man, the size difference is probably the biggest thing they're they're gonna see and like i put the size on in the right places i think a lot of times guys uh

they get bigger but they get bigger the physique looks the same like still have the same strengths and weaknesses and like one thing i've been really

particular about is putting on muscle where i need it to be right like if i wanted to i probably could have been 10 pounds heavier and put it all in my fucking quads like but that would have that would not have done me any justice right So, that's why my volume for quads is so, so low.

People always see it.

I do like one set of hacks and one set of legislation, you know, twice a week, and that's it.

It's because I, that's enough for that muscle, that's where I want it to be.

But, you know, um,

yeah, I think proportion, like, I'm a huge fan of having a symmetrical proportion physique.

Gotcha.

Um, B Mike Howden asks, uh, how much money to sniff the posing trucks asking for a friend?

there's no money man i could if you find them

you can steal them i won't be upset but i'm not not being involved in the process man

um

oh uh thinking um

uh christian emercy shadows asks who inspired you in regards to posing when you first started I know you mentioned some of the classics before, some of the classic guys before.

Yeah, the very, I mean, technically, the very first, the very, very, very first was Kai Green.

Um, gotcha.

You know, I was my, my,

yeah, I was getting ready for my first show, and I was posing, and my post, my coach was just, just the typical bodybuilder from that age.

He was like, all right, man, you want to go to this side of the stage, shit, like a front double, you want to go that stage, shit, like a most muscular.

And I'm like, okay, okay.

I was just like, all right, I'm doing that.

And me, I like to research.

I like to know the history.

So I went and looked up some stuff.

And I'm like, bro, you could do that, I'm saying.

So that's what opened my my eyes and then i started to look up you know more bodybuilders and by far my favorite is lead to brada without a doubt i think he's the best to ever do it hell yeah yeah leader brada is awesome man

dude like i look at some of the stuff he's done like it's some of his like it's hard like it's still hard for me i remember i i did a tribute to him at the one of the Arnold's and like I tried he did like this spinning pose and he was like tilted like this.

He spent while tilted and then landed in a lunge, like with both hands out.

And I'm like, I tried it, and I couldn't do it.

Like, I had to catch myself

one arm out and one arm.

Yeah, but dude, it's impressive, man.

It's really impressive.

Yeah, it's wild.

There was a guy yesterday who did fucking like uh he was doing like flip handstands.

It like shot the fucking.

Yeah, we all just like turned it.

Like, whoa, holy shit.

Um, Waffles asks, when is the last time you had a whiskey or a cocktail?

Normally, I have, well, not normally, but a lot of times I'll have something after a show, but I didn't have anything after this show.

So last time I had a drink was probably like

New Year's.

It's been a minute.

Normally, like I'm cool with drinking after competitions and during holidays and like, you know, special events.

Gotcha.

He's been when I've had something, yeah.

Um, Jerry, normally moonshine.

I drink moonshine.

I do, I was it, um,

Tennessee Whiskey.

That company is my favorite.

They make peanut butter whiskey.

They make moon like a brawl.

Peanut butter whiskey is like

top.

The peanut butter stouts were always fire, which is hilarious because I'm allergic to peanut butter, but the fuck it tastes good.

Jardell Aliwa asks, how do you mentally, how do you deal mentally with gaining weight after the show?

Do you have rebounds?

I've gotten better over the years.

This past,

I guess,

reverse was the best I've ever done.

I personally think either you get better at handling it or it gets easier, whatever you want to say.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

So

in the past, you know,

it is what it is.

You keep moving forward.

Like you recognize that you made a mistake and you do your best not to repeat that the next time around.

And you, you find ways to help yourself through it, right?

So, like, a lot of times, like, I would, you know, like, you get crazy hungry after a show a lot of times.

And so, uh, personally, I like fruit, so I ate a lot more fruit, stuff that was you know, dense or fibrous, but like didn't have a lot of calories.

Um, I would try to do stuff like that after a show if I could.

Um, that was probably my best way to combat that

Now it's just a lot easier in general.

I feel like I can cook better.

So I like the food I eat a lot more.

So that's a huge factor, bro.

If you like what you're eating, then it's a lot easier.

Yeah, I can agree with that too.

This isn't kind of related, I guess, but bodybuilding and both something says, is the T-Rough a GLP user?

A what user?

A GLP user.

I guess they're asking if you ever tried anything like Road of Tree Tide.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I started, I tried it like three weeks, started like, I guess maybe four weeks ago now.

Okay, so after New York, one,

one,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, it's probably why I feel so good right now,

but uh, I'm hungry, like, I like, I'm very moderate with stuff, and I talk, I think you've had Dr.

Dean on before as well.

Yeah, I love Dr.

Dean on him about everything, dude.

Yeah, he's he's the dude I chat with about stuff, so I'm just doing one milligram a week.

I know most people are doing two to three,

but I'm just doing one.

I'm happy with it.

I feel good.

And

so, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I started with one, too, when I first started it, and it was fucking great.

I had to titrate it up, of course, like after about four or a little bit more weeks or so.

So now I'm probably closer to like two milligrams per week.

So I just,

but

I was talking with Joe and it's getting to a point where like, you know, obviously there's like very soon

with all the things that are coming out, bodybuilding won't really be hard at all yeah and you know like it is what it is i think it's good i think it's really good for amateurs and people who don't do this like as a career like you want to be able to function and you know in life right but i i do i do wonder man like you i think in life you still need some type of like challenge and hardship and

like it doesn't need to be like to the point where you're like dying but like you need you need that type of

things in life to build character so like

i do like being a little bit hungry i do like suffering a bit.

I'm not a masochist or anything, but like something to test you, right?

Because you get to a point where everything's so easy, once you have something hard happening in life, you don't know how to handle it.

You know, absolutely.

My whole opinion on that.

The nice thing, too, about us who have already been bodybuilding for so long without Reddit True Tide is we know what it's like to fucking suffer from just pure hunger, you know, pure fucking starvation.

Like when I was getting my pro card, I was at literally 1,100 calories just eating boxes of the spinach.

I remember that.

And i was like well 163 pounds or whatever so it was fucking the worst experience of my life but um nowadays it's like it helps you though man you know because like now you think like oh not like you've had that difficult experience and you're like not like this is easy you know yeah yeah hunger wise it's a lot easier and i the other thing too is like you know for red treatide anyways I don't see a benefit for bodybuilders specifically to up the dose so high because then it just starts affecting your digestive system.

And obviously that's something that's going to hurt you, especially during peak week.

And like making sure that you're also like for me, for example, I just came off of Reddit True Tide the week before peak week.

So I could make sure that the

took advantage of the half-life and at least half of that was gone by the time I was, you know, in peak week and then a few days and then starting to carb up.

And I was able to carb up without any issues.

I was kind of starving like Tuesday and Wednesday before the carb up.

To be honest, it was kind of rough.

That's another part that sucks.

That's another part of prep that sucks.

The carb actually sucks a lot of times because I'm hungry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, uh, and like, also, it's not like ready treated is really going to help your energy very much.

Like, you're still going to fucking, if you're eating, you know, you're fucking below 100 grams of carbs and stuff before you start carving up and everything.

You're still going to feel like dog shit.

You're still going to be irritable and you're still going to have no energy to talk to people.

So it's not really going to change much.

But it's, it is cool that it's an, it's interesting now that all this technology is coming out and it's definitely

it's definitely just uh I guess

evolving the game of bodybuilding.

So

I'm eager to see where this all goes.

Yeah, yeah.

I uh I'd say with Robot, I think, I think you need to fucking probably fucking focus on your prep and get some meals in.

So I think that was fucking perfect, man.

I took enough time for you already.

I appreciate it, man.

I had a great, I always have a great time, chatting, man.

I always

what you eat and what you're what you're doing.

It's

deep and useful stuff, man.

Thank you, bro.

I really appreciate you coming on, too.

Every time you come on, you have so much wisdom to speak and a lot of value to give the audience.

And I understand that they appreciate it and resonate in so many areas, especially the guys who are competing and currently listening to this podcast on their cardio right now.

So

I guess the last question I ask every audience, which I've probably asked you twice already, is if you were to disappear from the world tomorrow and you had one message you could send to the world today, what would the message be?

Oh, man.

I'm going to get the same one, man.

It's in my head right now.

The same thing, man.

It's like

I definitely believe we put on this earth to

share our gifts with the world.

I think

you'll be fulfilled once you figure that out and once you're giving to people more than receiving.

I 100% believe that, man.

And typically, what I find is the more you give, the more you receive.

Like, don't go out into the world expecting it.

But just from this year, I've realized that, like,

I didn't realize this at first, but I gave a lot to people.

And now it's, it's, is,

now it's benefiting me a lot in terms of the, the gym equipment company.

Like, stuff I never knew that would pay off is paying off.

So that's my, my word of wisdom today is to give more than you take.

That's awesome, bro.

I love that.

Well, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Is there anything that you'd like to talk about or promote or discuss?

Anything that you'd like to bring up before we leave?

No, no, they heard it in the podcast.

Jim, boat, fitness supply, raw, dark sport, you know, all that stuff if you want to support.

And

yeah, that's it.

Sick.

And what's the name of your new gym again?

In Texas?

Wolf James.

Yeah, yeah.

Wolf James.

what city is it again I'm trying to remember Houston Houston Texas right

that's sick man I want to drop by I want to drop by so bad it looks so tough yeah bro um

yeah dude I mean like once once everything starts becoming profitable I would love to have like on like an Airbnb and then do content with like one person a month like have them fly down they can stay in Airbnb and we just get some stuff that'd be tough man

yeah yeah well it's probably another year or two before that but it's it's coming all right well i'm proud of everything that you're achieving man and i think you're gonna just only continue to achieve greater and greater things and uh i can't wait to see you up on the olymbia stage bro it's gonna be fucking awesome

yes looking forward to it

thank you man you have a good one you too bro have a good prep

later brother