Justin Shier: Real Numbers of A Real Olympian Bodybuilder

Justin Shire, open IFPB Pro bodybuilder and Olympian, known for his wild proportions and training style.

Received his pro card in the 2021 National Championships.

Won first place at the Chicago Pro in 2023 and went to Olympia.

Yo, what's up, bro?

What's up, man?

Can you hear me?

Yeah, yeah, I got you.

How's my audio?

I'm fucking...

Sounds terrible.

Does it?

Yeah, for whatever reason, dude.

I always get roasted on podcasts.

People talk shit about my audio, but

I've got a nice road mic here.

I think I just need to have it closer.

Oh, it sounds even better when you have it closer.

It's almost like Ian's.

Maybe I should hold it.

Yeah.

Probably better if you just whisper into it the entire time.

It's ASMR.

Let me get, I'll just try to get a little closer here.

I had this kind of punched in because this backdrop, like if I'm to the side a little bit, you can see the edges.

But now that you're here, I can push it back a little bit.

That's not the famous kitchen backdrop, is that?

That's the same, yeah.

It's the same one, yeah.

Oh, shit, no way.

Isn't that doesn't that look black, though?

Yeah, it's black.

Oh, no, maybe this is different, actually.

This one I got recently, but it's still the same style, just a basic ass.

Actually, this one's cool.

It like um, yeah, collapses into itself.

Oh, that's tight.

Is that what you use for chickens?

Yeah, yep,

Nice.

That's the one that they said isn't your color, huh?

Is there a lag here?

Because I think, let me log off my Wi-Fi.

Sometimes

I have Starlink, and sometimes it's just not the best.

Starlink?

I don't think I've ever even heard of that before.

Really?

Yeah, it's Elon Musk Starlink.

That's why I haven't heard of it.

Yeah,

I'm a Nazi for even using it.

Just kidding, guys.

Just kidding oh we're recording already oh i always just automatically record

well sometimes

sometimes the best stuff just comes up here but yeah let's crop out talking about um

what we were just talking about okay

yeah we will we will it's um

i mean keeping that you know keeping that off whatever still i feel like that's good information for me to know though because uh

My girl's on that Prozac diet right now.

Oh, yeah.

As most people know, super fucking awesome for sexual function.

Is it?

Yeah, I didn't know that.

No, I'm being sarcastic.

Like, I might as well basically just jump myself on two grams of MPP.

Oh, that's hilarious.

Yeah, I probably should, honestly.

It would probably make me feel better.

Yeah, just stifle your own desires.

Make sure your shit don't work.

Yeah.

Anyways, sorry.

If my tongue is super blue, I'm like trying this new thing.

Have you ever have you heard of methylene blue?

Methylene blue, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So I just I started playing around with it and decided that I immediately loved it the first time I took it.

And I can't tell if that's placebo.

Could probably be placebo.

So what do you

what do you feel you're getting out of this?

Just got a curiosity.

So the first time I took it, I felt like I was getting some mental clarity because sometimes, I mean, it really depends on my sleep, but sometimes I just feel like I'm so mentally foggy in the morning.

And I tried taking it first with

I tried doing it like a buckle method and then swallowing the pill whole, but I just feel like

it just kind of cleared up my mind,

which is nice.

Cause otherwise, the only other option I have is like smashing coffee and an energy drink and a bunch of like nootropics and shit at the same time.

So

for sure, which then affects my sleep later in the day.

Yeah, I know how it is, dude.

I honestly, there is something to, even if it is a placebo, you know, I mean, that's a, that's powerful, man.

That's, that's your mind doing the work for you.

So.

Yeah.

Have you ever experimented with it before?

The methylene blue, I have not, no.

But I'm,

I'm more of just like a coffee guy.

I'll just drink coffee all the day.

I'm a coffee guy, too.

I swear to God.

I don't just like blow some merch all the time.

Damn,

that is fucking blue.

That's the one thing I don't like about it.

It's blue as fuck, bro.

Yeah.

And I don't know if you've heard, but there was like this one guy who, like, I think he overdosed himself with methylene blue and he died.

And then

they did an autopsy and his brain was blue.

Whoa.

Looking wild.

I know that, like, you're...

Are you pissing blue?

Is your, is your pee super blue?

Not yet.

Really?

Yeah, I've seen that.

So maybe I should be titrating up the doses.

Yeah, I've heard about that too.

I'll lean into it a little more until the pee's blue.

Sounds a little concerning.

The thing that I like about it, though, is Dr.

Scott Scher, who's an expert on methylene blue, said that

I think uh i believe it was created initially in 1896 and it was made to basically dye genes blue and they found out the people that were doing the dyeing of the genes in the factory specifically were way healthier than all the rest of the people in the factory interesting so um yeah they ended up in i've heard a lot like uh my my mom passed away from cancer in at the end of 2022 and around that time there was a lot of discussion around methylene blue and it having positive effects on cancer or i guess negative effects on, on cancer cells.

So I think a lot of people have had, had success.

She had like esophageal cancer, so it was esophagus and in her stomach.

And I tried convincing her at the time to like just chug methylene blue and she, you know, she wasn't into it.

But

yeah,

that was kind of my first, my first introduction to it because I have heard people having success with treating cancer, oddly enough.

Right.

Yeah.

It's super interesting.

Yeah.

I'm sorry to hear about that, by the way, bro.

That's okay.

I know we're starting off this Sunday at a weird, a weird place.

I'm kind of in a weird headspace myself because, to be honest, my

I mean, I don't really see any point with mine that

my girl just

like her best friend in the entire world,

like her closest, her only close friend passed away yesterday.

And it's kind of weird because, like,

it's just, it's, I don't know, man.

I'm in the, I'm in one of those places where normally I have, like, I adopt a good positive perspective over things that happened because my, my best friend passed away on 7-Eleven four years ago, which was,

you know, it's, which was just a couple of days ago.

And then on that same day, the night of, you know, I was thinking about him the whole time.

I was telling Lexi, like, on Monday of the week, that his angel vsary is coming up.

And then that day, that night, she gets a call randomly and And her friend Hannah just tells her the news.

And

kind of felt like the whole world was just like

falling apart because, like, there's no expectation of it, man.

It's not, it's not like she had cancer or anything.

It's not like she was sick or anything.

It was literally like she broke her foot like two weeks ago, and then she was just healing like anyone does from like freaking a broken bone or anything.

But then she just got this random blood clot out of nowhere.

So it's tragic, man.

Yeah, you know, I've, I've, I've lost a, I've lost a lot of people close to me.

I've lost, you know, uncles and, you know, grandparents and, you know, my mother and, and nothing prepares you for that stuff, and it never gets easier.

And I will say that there is some

value during those times.

It really shines a light on what's important and can really,

you know, paint a very clear picture of,

you know, the people in your life that are actually meaningful and impactful.

And, you know, there's some, there's some beauty in it.

You know, it's really hard.

Like when I lost my mom is, you know, still even just talking about it three, coming up on three years, it's unbelievable.

But

it's, uh,

it doesn't get any easier, but you can, you can start to see the,

I guess, the value and tragedy sometimes.

You know, it can bring a lot of people closer together.

And, and, uh,

yeah, I'm really sorry to hear that, but that's, that's tough, man.

No, I, I appreciate you sharing that, man.

I, um, I just, I know that, I understand that at these times, it's just kind of really

like no one ever really knows what to say, you know, no one ever really knows what to do or what to say.

But, um, you know what I remember?

And I'm sorry to interrupt here, but like,

I remember feeling guilty,

like going to the gym after my mom passed.

And I remember thinking, like, is this normal?

Should I, is this how I should be?

processing this.

I mean, I was getting ready to start a contest prep.

That was, that was leading into that, that, that prep for Chicago in 2023.

She passed away in October and I was competing that year.

And

I just I remember feeling like I maybe I shouldn't be doing this and that I felt guilty for being able to compartmentalize and go to the gym and stay in my routine.

But ultimately, I knew that that was the most valuable thing for me in that moment was to maintain my routine.

And I also knew that my mom, the fucking, the first thing she would tell me is like, go to the gym, keep working and focus on you.

Like, I know my mom wouldn't have wanted me to sulk and,

you know, give up in that moment, but it's still,

you know, we can kind of convince ourselves and,

you know, put a lot of pressure and guilt on ourselves for.

continuing on with our lives and maintaining that routine.

But ultimately, that's what I found to be the most productive thing was just to continue maintaining my routine, wake up, do my cardio, eat my food, train, be there for my family.

You know, I have a little sister that, that, you know, lost her mom at 20 years old, you know, so I still had to be strong and be there for

my

siblings and my father.

And,

you know, but ultimately maintaining that routine and staying focused and

focused on my goals, it helped me a lot.

You know, and

I think you can derail people because a lot of times you think what's expected of you is to pull back and to mourn.

and to not continue to focus on yourself in inside or in light of these tragedies.

And and i i just think that's the wrong way to go about it personally

yeah

i'm glad you said that um i think it's like bringing me a lot of thought right now because

i don't know i i feel like

so after i lost ryan four years ago i had another best friend that passed away a couple years afterwards and when that happened i felt like i had some sense of like

it felt a little bit different to the point where i'm like i've been here before and like,

while I'm going through the remotions, I feel like this is at least a familiar terrain.

But now

it's a little different because

basically, the way that I see Lexia, when I met her, she was this person that just, um, she had this beautiful family, these amazing parents that really took care of her.

Like, I don't feel like she has any

like, I'm just going to be trans, I'm not sure, like, how to like word this in the proper way, but like,

like, she just grew up up with an amazing family and just amazing people around her.

And she, unlike me, like, doesn't have the issues that I have.

Like, I've got fucking issues, you know, like, I'm like, I'm going to therapy and shit to address things that I've experienced through childhood.

Like, I didn't, I wasn't able to have any friends growing up since

my parents weren't, they just didn't really allow me to.

It was kind of like this traditional Asian household.

And

I did not have a good relationship with them.

And then I left home at 15.

And then I had a bunch of friends that passed away.

And then basically my entire journey was just being alone.

Whereas for her, it was the opposite.

Like her mom was always there, always, always there to like check up on her.

So is her friend Liv.

And so basically this entire time, I feel like this girl is giving me a piece of something I've never had before.

I feel like she's offering me this insight into like this life with a family that I could actually have that I didn't have before, like this love, this experience, this like connection with family that

I have always wanted.

And so my thought process this entire time was like, man, like, I want to protect this girl because

all she wants is to move back home here from California, back to Kentucky to be with her family and be with Liv.

And so the last year and a half, I've just been preparing myself to change the direction of my life.

And where I thought I was going to live in California for the rest of my life and like do this content shit.

Maybe I can go to Kentucky.

Maybe I can make that work, even though it's kind of like the middle of nowhere.

Maybe I can like build a gym there with her, you know, maybe I can settle down and do something sweet and nice.

And,

um,

and so, uh, yeah, we would just she'd just be texting Liv every single day and just talking about how she can't wait to be home again and how she misses her.

And like, then she would tell me, like, I feel so bad that you and Dion had to go through this losing Ryan, one of your best friends.

I don't think I could ever, ever get through that.

I don't know what I would be able to do, I don't know what I would do.

And I just feel so blessed and feel so much gratitude that I have, you know, my parents and I have Liv.

Yeah.

And then I know where to, two days ago, Liv.

Liv is gone.

So

it's kind of just like

derailing the train.

Yeah.

It's just so shocking, man.

So, yeah, I mean, it's hard.

It's kind of another reminder that anything can happen.

Yeah, it's, it's heartbreaking, man.

I hate hearing that.

But I, uh,

I will say that that just doesn't mean that, you know, those opportunities aren't still out out there, that you couldn't still continue to follow through with that plan.

I mean, it sounds like

I will say, from my perspective, I live here in a very small town.

I'm in Grans Pass, Oregon.

It's a really small town of like, you know, under 40,000 people.

And this is where I've built my entire, you know, career, my professional career.

I own a gym with my wife.

My brother and I own a few businesses.

I've been able to be very successful here within my town.

And I've still been able to continue to network and get myself out there and grow my personal brand as far as my social media goes and

traveling and things like that.

And obviously just connecting online allows

the access for content creation.

And I'll be honest, I get a little bit jaded.

I have a really beautiful home here in this quiet area.

And sometimes I don't appreciate that for what it is.

My whole family's here, my dad, my sister, my brother.

you know, everybody's here.

And there's a lot of times where I feel like, man, I want to escape this small town.

You know, I want to get out and, you know, maybe go to California.

Maybe I want to move to Texas, Florida, somewhere bigger where there's a little more culture, a little more bodybuilding culture.

And then I go and I spend a week or 10 days out there.

And you just can't wait to get home to the simplicity of what I have here.

And

I always appreciate those opportunities to

gain a little perspective on how fortunate I am to be here.

with my family in this small town, the privacy I have.

And it's a really intimate place.

And, you know, there's a lot of value in it.

So if you are kind of worried about making that, that transition, man, I wouldn't be.

You know, I think it's, there's a, there's a lot of value in it.

Thanks, man.

I, I appreciate that a lot.

Um, I think that's going to help as well.

Cause I think the thing that's the heaviest on my mind right now is

being scared of what's to come with this transition because the main part of the transition was allowing her to be with the people that mattered the most to her.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now that the person that matters the most to her,

you know, this girl that she's known her entire life, that like,

bro, I was, I was, I needed to step up my game.

I like, I need to be up to like this girl's standards.

Like, if I'm not up to the best friend's standards, then like, I'm not the person, right?

Yeah.

And she ended up being the most supportive, amazing person in the entire world.

And now she's gone.

So now I'm just like, I don't know what Lexi's going to do.

I don't know what she's going to want.

I know she's going to still want to be with family, but the purpose of being specifically in Kentucky rather than like

long story, this other, like Florida, where her other family also visits.

It's like, I don't know, it just changes the route.

And my perspective has

been a little bit weird recently, where it's like, where I, where I'm almost feeling like,

for some reason, my entire life has been tainted with some sort of pain or some sort of hardship, and hers has just looked so pure.

Um,

and

I almost, it's, it's almost weird, bro.

It's like, why is it on 7-Eleven?

Like, I don't know.

Like, I'm not normally very, like, woo-woo like that, but it almost feels like I

taint

the purity that I surround myself with sometimes.

Oh, man, don't, don't say that, dude.

That's, that's a, that's a terrible mindset to have.

I mean, that's a big, that's a pretty big burden to carry, you know, but I, I will say there's a lot of power in thought.

And, um,

so my, my, my mom,

her mother passed away.

So my grandma passed away.

And I know we're just talking a lot about death and personal stuff here, but she passed away at 58 years old from

a brain aneurysm.

It was really young.

It was tragic.

You know, we were just kids when it happened.

And,

you know, when my mom passed, my dad told me, he's like, you know, your mom, ever since grandma passed, that number 58, she kept just saying like, 58's too young.

You know, I can't leave my kids that young.

You know, 58's too young.

Like, she was a, she was a smoker at the time.

She quit smoking.

I was like, I've got to be here for the kids.

We've got to be healthier and uh you know i can't have my i kids losing me at 58 years old you know 58 58 58 and my mom got diagnosed with stage four terminal cancer at 58 years old i was like what are the fucking odds of that you know and i and my and my dad was like she just fucking she made it happen you know like talking about it so much and and and uh you know well There's probably, you know, nothing to support that.

You know, the power of thought

is really,

it is really powerful.

And

I just always try to encourage people to avoid negative thoughts like that because thoughts become things not to sound like fucking Kygreen here, dude.

But,

you know,

the mind is powerful, and you can convince yourself of some things and make stuff happen that wouldn't happen otherwise.

You know, not that

my mom's thought process on that actually made that happen at 58 years old, but just kind of bizarre.

Yep.

Anyway, dude, what's up, man?

Aren't you in prep?

Are you dieting?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm in prep too.

I'm in prep.

How many weeks out?

I am 11 weeks out.

11 weeks out?

Basically today, yeah.

Sweet.

Okay.

What about, how does it feel to be back on prep for you?

It's been like, what, like two years since you last showed up?

Yeah, I mean, well, I did the Olympia

in November of 2023.

So.

It's been about,

so I essentially started dieting a little after a year of an offseason.

So yeah, it's like a full, a little over a full year completely off and away from stage.

I'm excited, man.

I feel really good.

And I mean, it's, you know, right now what I'm

fucking excited, dude.

Thanks, man.

I appreciate it.

I'm three weeks out, so it's like energy is super low.

I don't feel great, but you know, you just have to ignore all that stuff and keep your eye on the price because,

you know, we only get to do this for so long.

And it's such a blessing to actually do what you love for a living and be able to kind of give your all to something.

So I'm really grateful.

I'm excited.

And I think I'm going to bring my all-time best for sure.

That's sick, dude.

I'm really excited for you too.

And to be honest, like,

I'm just a big fan of everything that you're able to do, bro.

Like, the fact that you're on three weeks of prep.

And I know it took you, I know you had a lot going on for us to be able to fit in this podcast and everything.

But the fact that you even own this business and you're juggling your cannabis business along with prep and bodybuilding and creating content in your YouTube videos is kind of fucking mind-blowing to me bro well I honestly I'll be honest and just for the the audience here like

I blew you off what two times in a row like I

didn't intentionally do it but my toxic trait my toxic trait is just kind of like saying yes to everything like a contractor is like hey can you meet me here Tuesday at one I just say yes and then I you know my massage guy's got an opening at Wednesday at three and I say yes and then I'm like and then I'm like you oh do you want to podcast on Wednesday I'm like fuck yeah let's do it and then I like get there I'm like wait a minute I have have a dentist appointment a podcast and i got to meet the contractor here on the same day i just and i i i'm really i'm this super busy guy that is just

disorganized so i need to work on that i need to get better at using my my uh calendar app on my phone and and

maybe

putting a little fucking thought into things before i make commitments but uh we made it happen today so i'm i'm excited Yeah, dude, me too.

And I appreciate that.

I just, I, uh,

I don't think that's weird at all, man.

I feel like the, the most most stressful thing, like, there's a lot of fucking stressful things that we also have just, like, just talked about.

But one of the things that I think is one of the most consistent pressing feelings, like just a feeling of pressure on me, is like when you have things just stacked up and you don't know, you don't really know if you're going to actually be able to make the time for them.

You've just like scheduled things in a row.

And, but most of the time, for me personally, I end up, I never ever get everything done that I plan to for the day ever.

Yeah.

It always ends up being pushed off to the next day every single day.

And it's just, just this running feeling of like a lack of abundance of time, which is like the opposite of what I should be feeling or what I should be doing.

Yeah.

Well, what I'll, what I'll, I always say is that I, I, I work a little better under pressure.

So I have a tendency to just put a little more on my plate than I probably should.

And to me, that, that feeling of having a lot of work to do and being extremely busy and a touch overwhelmed, it's kind of what keeps me going.

And I really, the opposite of that is like not having anything going on stresses me out.

Like on a, on a Sunday when I don't really have much going on, I get super antsy.

You know, my wife knows, she's like, why don't you just calm down?

I'm like, I just, I don't feel calm.

I just feel like I need something.

And

I have to work on it a little bit because it's not necessarily a healthy thing.

You know, I should just be able to, you know, lounge and kick back and give myself that feeling of just, you know, relaxing and shutting it all down um but you know that little bit of chaos for whatever reasons just to me keeps me going

yeah i feel like i'm in this like consistent sympathetic drive to be honest which i don't think is probably the best thing for bodybuilding but yeah i don't know we're making the way no it isn't and i've had my body kind of push back and i've had to i've been a lot better about it this prep you know i really i really have this is kind of the

This prep's been a lot different where I'm actually able to, you know, compartmentalize and put some things aside and say, Hey, Sunday's my rest day.

I'm not doing a fucking thing.

I'm I'm a j I just absolutely need to shut it all down.

I read my book all day and just relax, watch some T V with the wife and

and just allow myself that.

'Cause, you know, when you

when you're go, go, go and you're pushing, your body can push back.

So like anybody who's ever been in a contest prep where you're kind of riding hard for a long time and then you just start seeing

you know, body weight, you know, increasing, you're holding water, you're a little inflamed, and then you have that day where you just kind of pull back and let it all go.

You know, those are, those, those, uh, those days are super important for the, the success of a contest prep.

Yeah.

Um, I was actually about to ask that, that same question, but is there anything, is there anything else like more specific that you feel like has, uh, you've seen happen in yourself personally whenever your body has done that pushback?

Starting this contest prep, I did like a pretty extensive gut health protocol because last year I just had a had a lot of really bad gut health issues.

I was constantly bloated.

I couldn't really push food because every time I'd eat a little bit of food, I would just be constantly distended and I was just, I was really struggling.

So coming into this contest prep, I did an extensive gut health protocol with Dom Cousa and my coach, Justin Jacobi.

He kind of oversaw everything and we worked on this together.

So starting this prep, I started with a very healthy gut and it has made made just a profound difference.

I don't think just in how my body responds, but like mental acuity, like how I feel, my, my, um, energy throughout the day, my mood.

I mean, I've just been so much more responsive to little diet changes.

And I think that's made a

profound difference.

And I think a lot of people underestimate, you know, what

poor gut health can do and how it can affect not just your contest prep, but like, you know, growth phases, guys who aren't growing because their guts are a mess, you know, and I kind of dealt with that this offseason where I was, I started this prep and we started driving food.

And I was like, yo, I'm eating more food right now in this prep than I was during my offseason.

And I'm leaner and dropping body weight.

So like it was, it was just kind of a crazy shift for me to see.

So I strongly suggest that, you know, if you're ever dealing with any gut health issues, reach out to someone.

You know, I know Dom Cusa helped me.

He's a super smart smart guy.

But I also know like Dom Super Slice.

He's another guy that I know has helped a lot of people with their gut health issues.

He's a super smart guy, really sharp.

But get a GI map, figure out what's going on with your gut if you're having some serious issues and get that shit addressed because it is a killer.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's very like

that's an undervalued thing right now.

I mean, even though people are talking about it more and more, I still think like it's just not focused on enough or the problem is just like brushed under the rug because it's like, it's hard to hone in on what the issue probably is.

Yeah.

Because I think most bodybuilders kind of just end up feeling some sort of like bloating or flatulence at some point.

Like maybe even if it's regularly.

So it's hard for you to be like, I have like an actual GI issue right now.

So

one guy that I had on my podcast, I don't know if you've heard of Austin's doubt.

I recognize the name.

I'm really bad with names and faces, especially right now at three weeks out.

Well, he uh he is kind of like the guys that you were talking about, which I think is cool because, um, I haven't really looked into the info info that like Dom Super Slice provides, yeah, though I've heard of him.

Um, but Austin is a has been an expert on GI health for I don't fucking know how long, if it's been like 15 to 20 years or so.

Um, he's helped a bunch of really big coaches and um athletes like Terrence, Terrence Ruffin.

Nice.

And um, I think because of my pod, a few of my homies ended up hooking up with him and, um,

well, in the way of a client-coach relationship.

And

my boy Jarek Crew, too.

And Jarek has said that

Jarek basically just came off of everything, like all PEDs, all compounds, and just focused on his gut health for like a whole year with Austin, which is mind-blowing to me.

But apparently now it's like...

It's just made a world of change where he feels like he's maintaining the same like amount of muscle mass on basically nothing, but just since his gut is working properly

and at high quality.

It's kind of crazy how much of a difference it makes.

And I was a little stressed out starting this contest prep.

Like I said, I was working with Dom Cousa and he dropped me to four meals a day.

We came off all PEDs.

I was doing like 100 milligrams a test just to kind of keep baseline hormone levels.

But, you know, I went from 275 down to like 255.

And I was just small and undereating.

And I felt fat and flat flat and worthless.

And I'm like, dude, I'm 24 weeks out.

Like, this is bad.

And then we kind of slowly, you know, ramped food back up and added some fun stuff.

And I was just like immediately so responsive.

And a lot of that came back.

Like, I do think, I do think that maybe,

well, if had I have done this six months prior, then yeah, I'd probably be in a better position for this contest prep.

But it just was, it was so necessary at the time that, you know, that small little setback still was able to kind of propel me forward in this prep.

And I'm in a much better place than I would have been had I have not done it at all.

Yeah, that's one of the, that's one of the most interesting things that Austin has talked about is that like you will see that people that like

who people that improve their GI tract or their gut health, he normally sees them being able to respond significantly better to the compounds, the same dosage of the compounds they're taking.

Well, I will say like last Chicago prep.

It's kind of mind-blowing to me, I guess.

Chicago prep, I couldn't really do any orals.

I would take, you know, 25 milligrams of

Windstrawl and I immediately would just get like a crazy heartburn and stomach was distended.

And I just, I just couldn't do it.

I couldn't really tolerate any orals.

So

it made it hard kind of driving progress there towards the latter stages of a prep because we had to be really mindful of

our inputs.

But this year,

you know, all the wind straw in the world, I'm just fine.

I'm just kidding.

I'm not hammering anything more.

To be honest, I'm just getting more out of less.

I feel like,

you know, these low dose, like, you know, 25 milligrams, like, damn, I, I like immediately saw a difference, felt the difference.

Like, uh, you know, leverages improved in the gym.

I felt, felt better.

And I, and I, you don't always get that sometimes when you just feel like, like, we've all been in an off-season phase where we're really heavy and bloated.

And, you know, you like, let's say you start a cycle, like, and you go like, I don't even really know if this is doing anything right now because I just, I still feel sluggish and

I think that's kind of a different conversation where a lot of people will drive up body fat too far and

hinder their own progress.

But

ultimately, like right now, I just have been way more responsive and I just feel a lot better.

And, you know, we're able to do big high days where I'm able to digest and utilize a lot of this food where in previous preps, I just wasn't.

We would just feed me a little bit and I would have this massive like body weight response to the smallest amount of food.

So it's made a big difference.

How high are your high days now?

Every meal is like 400 grams of white rice.

So like five times a day.

Damn.

And I've been doing that like meals one through four.

Then meal five has been like a consistent cheat meal.

So I've been going to in and out and doing two double doubles and two large fries like every

week.

The whole prep.

It's been pretty cool.

That's fucking awesome.

Yeah.

Okay.

So this is something I I need to do right now.

Fuck.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Is there any point in time where you felt like the gut issues just started exacerbating?

Was there like, was it from like a specific prep or do you feel like it just kind of grew over time while you were bodybuilding?

I think, to be honest, if I look at like my entire life, I am always like, I didn't even really realize as a kid what bloating was.

And I was just really sensitive to food.

And, you know, we would eat food.

And I would like, my brother always had like six-pack flat washboard abs, and it fucking upset me.

I was so insecure about it.

And because we would go like swimming in the summer, and my parents would barbecue, and I would eat my chips in a sandwich or whatever.

And I would feel bloated, my stomach would stick out.

And my brother just looked like this picture-perfect guy.

I'm like, what the fuck is that?

Why don't I look like that?

And so I like, I have always kind of had these bloating, these bloating responses to food.

Just been really sensitive to certain things.

And over the course of my career, I've been kind of able to figure out, you know, what triggers, what foods trigger and

what works and what doesn't.

But I will say from the beginning.

I was definitely a little fat.

I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't a little fat, but I was like a husky.

I was like a thicker guy, you know, I was a thicker kid.

But

it definitely continued to exacerbate.

Like I did my first show in 2019, so I'm pretty new to this.

I haven't been doing this very long.

And in the beginning,

you know, I was able to kind of get away with like more cheat meals and no issues.

And then come 2021, 2022, I was like, man, I think I might have like some gut health issues.

In 2023, that prep was a fucking disaster.

Like I didn't really get in shape.

I won Chicago, but I just, I couldn't get in shape.

I was doing two hours of cardio and I was doing basically no food.

I had like 50 grams of rice pre and post workout and that was it, white fish all day.

I mean, we were pushing like a son of a bitch

for conditioning and it just wasn't happening.

You know, I don't know what the hell was going on.

And then we kind of came out of the back into that.

And just because of how hard you drive down into these holes, like coming out, I felt like, hey, my gut health is fine because I'm able to eat food and I have this huge appetite.

But that offseason through 2024, it just progressively got worse and worse and worse.

And we did what we could kind of managing food amounts and not driving food too hard because I just knew I just couldn't tolerate the higher food amounts.

But there towards the end of the offseason, I was like, dude, this is a total disaster.

Like, I need to fix this.

And that's when we kind of, you know, reassessed there towards the end of 2024, coming into 2025 and then starting this prep.

But yeah, I'd really say that prep of 2023 and then my whole offseason of 2024, I just like,

and I ignored it, you know, and I think we, we, you just kind of talked, you touched on that where you're like, you know, bodybuilders, though, they'll ignore, you know, being bloated and farting and like burping.

And like, it's just part of it.

You know, I'm in an offseason, I'm eating tons of food, of course, you know, but it's, it's really not that normal.

Like, I really like to prioritize my athletes.

I like to see athletes consistent, consistently getting hungry between their meals.

Like, I want to make sure that your blood glucose levels are in a good place.

I want to make sure you're consistently getting hungry.

You're digesting and utilizing these nutrients the way they need to be.

And I think a lot of people ignore that.

And I think

for some people,

driving up into these higher body weight ranges and really pushing things far can be helpful.

You know, you have a

smaller, skinnier guy that you take from 200 to 220 and he's a little bit chubby, but you see his,

you see him put 100 pounds on his, on his deadlift, you know, and leverages continue to improve in the gym.

And in that case, you're going, hey, man, you're way fucking stronger at this body weight.

So let's ride this out.

and continue toggling things to where we're improving on leverages.

But for me, as I got heavier and as I continued to push food, getting down to the bar was harder.

And I was leverages were not improving.

If anything, they're going in the other direction.

So for me, staying leaner, staying hungry between my meals, it's just been a lot more beneficial.

And I think for most people, that's how it's going to be.

Gotcha.

I was kind of like you when I was younger, too.

Huge fat ass.

Well, I wasn't a huge fat ass.

Jesus Christ.

I was disgusting just like you.

No, I had gut issues, though, like my entire life, to be honest.

And I always thought, bro, like I ended up getting diagnosed with ADHD when we were in high school.

So obviously started pounding the adder on everything.

And I would have these issues where, you know, there's just no focus at all.

And we ended up finding out, well, I ended up finding out personally that a big, a big cause of that not only was like my issues with sleep, but it was even especially more so just my diet choices.

Like I would, I would basically eat anything, man.

I didn't have any like food restrictions, you know.

Um,

and uh, I would be bloated every single day.

I'd be farting every single day.

Um, and then

I uh fucking realized after my fraternity drank all the milk for like an entire year and I couldn't drink skim milk anymore.

The next time I drank it, I fucking just basically cleared my entire colon out

and just actually exploded one of the toilets.

So, found out I was lactose intolerant.

And as it continuously progressed, I kind of just ended up playing with a lot of like elimination diets and found out that certain foods just didn't like play well with me, especially certain processed foods too.

So even if it's like a, say like a processed chip that's like created with avocado oil and it's like made with like minimum, minimal like,

I don't know, extra ingredients or chemicals or anything, no red 40 or whatever.

The fact that it's like almost just processed too, I can feel the difference that it makes in my mental acuity just after consuming it versus if I ate a normal clean meal.

And there was just like small little things that I broke down to the point where now it's like, for example, if I get on a podcast, I just make sure not to eat anything specifically heavy for at least like an hour to two hours prior, which is a little bit hard with the whole bodybuilding thing.

But I realized like, I'm at the place now where I haven't needed my Adderall prescription for the last three years.

Wow.

I've been able to work at a

fluency and a level of focus that's higher than I've ever had throughout college, which I fucking wish I had back then.

That's great, man.

Just pouting Addie.

And also

doing the kind of things that you were doing, like being a little bit more aware of my offseason and my gut this last offseason, I feel like my waist right now at like 11 weeks out is a lot smaller than it was last year at 11 weeks out.

And my own coach is even saying like, dude, waist looks small.

Everything looks like it's coming in really quick.

So I really think there's a lot of merit to

gut health that guys should be focused on.

That's huge, dude.

Nowadays.

Yeah, honestly, your gut,

your waist is tiny.

So like you were talking about being bloated and gut health and being fat as a kid it's kind of surprising your waist is tiny i don't think i think yours is smaller than mine i don't i mean yours is ridiculous um no no yours is smaller

no but yeah you look good man i've been i've been following you for a while watching your progress dude you you're uh you look sick man i i really like some of the the front shots that you hit like the uh like the teacup pose that you rock it looks super good on you thanks bro i appreciate that i was um i was trying to say the same thing to you but now i'm just going to sound weird if i say it now that's okay dude say it i want to hear it

say it uh you straight up have like some of the craziest upper body proportions in the entire league in my opinion thanks and i think in a lot of people's opinions so the whole like um front double bicep that everyone basically just uh uh goons over i think they have good reason to appreciate that dude

yeah i'll never be the the biggest guy it's just not ever going to be my game and i understand that so i just need to play to my strengths.

Like I, I know I've got really good shape.

I've got good symmetry.

I've got good round, bubbly muscles.

So as long as I'm like,

as long as I'm peeled and peaked well and full on stage, I can show off my attributes and I'm very confident heading into

a show standing next to guys that are a lot bigger than myself.

You know, you look at,

you know, I get a lot of criticism because, you know, I'm, I'm going to be, you know, I'm in low 230s right now.

I'm a smaller guy when it comes to open bodybuilding, you know, but you know who else was a smaller guy?

You know, Dexter Jackson, you know uh sean sean ray you know these guys lee labrada that just absolutely dominated the olympia stage you know uh even flex flex wheeler you know some of his best looks were in the low 220s i mean these these are legendary bodybuilders that are that are uh you know smaller guys so just bigger isn't always better and i just need to continue focusing on playing my game and not getting caught up on on the size game.

And I will say, you know, Matt Jansen, my coach prior to Justin Jacoby, I'm working with Justin now, but I was working with Matt.

You know, he helped me turn pro.

He took me as an amateur.

Matt took me from an amateur who was placing barely in the top five at the USA's to winning my pro card and being on the Olympia stage in three years.

You know, Matt was a fucking legendary coach.

Matt was the man.

And, you know, he

was always

focused on like not rushing things.

You know, we never like people

always assume like, you know, these guys are jamming crazy amounts of insulin and

GH.

And like, you know, you look at my protocols with Matt and it was like four IUs of GH and I never did insulin with Matt.

And like, he never pushed things.

Like we were slow and steady.

He's a liar.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, it's, you know, that's, that's definitely what everyone says.

And I mean, listen, most four to six, like, we, we definitely push into six during like contest preps.

You know, but a lot of guys, like, you know, you look at my progress over those years and you just read the comment section, section, you're like, fuck, man, people think I'm running like four grams a year and 12 IUs at GS crazy, man.

But I was lucky to connect with Matt.

That was weird, man.

I was lucky to connect with Matt early on and he didn't do anything extreme and he helped me preserve my lines and made sure that I didn't rush this process.

And I'm very grateful for that.

So this is one thing that I like about my actual real ass audience, the real ass motherfuckers that actually watch the podcast.

Yeah.

These, most of the guys that listen to the podcast are very aware and very like logical and very smart.

And they've also like listened to enough information in bodybuilding to kind of understand as a whole, like what seems to be true.

Yeah.

And I think from across the board, the people that listen to the podcast understand that.

And what I've noticed is that

there are, there are bodybuilders that have run some fucking insane cycles, man, like some crazy high dosages.

And

I know personally of some stories of some specific guys, even some of the top five on Olympia stage that have some crazy cycles.

But from what I know, the things that we like to talk about are always the things that are the craziest.

The things you find on the news are always what's the craziest thing.

And so

I've heard people discuss the cycle, but then when other people hear the story and it gets

and it gets played in this game of telephone, it suddenly turns into like, this guy has always run this much.

Yeah.

And then suddenly it turns to tons of bodybuilders, tons of open bodybuilders who run this much.

And then suddenly it turns to all bodybuilders who run this much.

And if they don't, then they're lying.

And it's crazy, man, because it's like, well, it's running a lot of other people in a hole.

Cause like, if you're believing that shit and you start taking that, it's going to affect your, like, what's going to happen to you in the long run, man?

You're not going to have a long-standing career.

Yeah, it's, it's dangerous that a lot of people put that out there and create these misconceptions.

And I actually had a client come to me.

I gave him four IUs of of GH.

He's never taken GH before.

And he was like, hey, man, I got a buddy who told me that like four AUs is basically, you know, useless.

Like we shouldn't, that's like a therapeutic dose, which just isn't true.

You know, one IU a GH is more like a therapeutic dose.

And I was like, listen, dude, my, my off seasons with Matt, where I like made those big leaps and bounds in progress, where everyone's like, wow, you went from an amateur to the Olympia in one offseason.

I screenshotted this cycle to show him.

And I'll show you right here.

Let's see if I can get this to,

you can see right there, that's 750 milligrams of testosterone a week.

We had NPP and we pulled it EQ 500 weekly, Primo 500 weekly, a little bit of Anivar, AIs, and then 4IU of GH.

This is my full-blown off-season cycle with Matt Jansen.

That is, what is that like?

Under

less than two grams a gear and four IU of GH.

And that's, that's just what I've always ran and got away with and improved with.

Like if you're, if you're running dosages like that and you're continually seeing leverages improve in the gym, you're getting stronger, visuals are improving, you do not need to be titrating dosages if you're getting a response.

And that's what people don't understand is they see things like you're talking about.

They see guys running grams and grams of gear and they're thinking, okay, well, I'm not seeing the response I need.

It must be the gear when you're not looking at your food, they're not looking at their training, they're not looking at their sleep, they're not paying attention to gut health, and they just start titrating dosages to get a response.

And some guys, listen, man,

bodybuilding isn't fucking for everybody.

Just like you're never going to see a fucking midget in the NBA, dude.

You won't.

And there's a lot of guys that are midgets trying to fucking be in the NBA.

And it's just, you know, you have to be objective and look at this and understand that the guys you're looking at, like, you know,

maybe, you know, myself and some of these other top pros, like, you may not have our genetics and it just may not be in the cards.

And you need to be objective with yourself and

not push the envelope with drugs trying to achieve what some other guys are able to do.

Like, I know top, top guys, like, you know, I'm friends with everybody, you know, like I, I, I've talked to Samson about what he's taking and you wouldn't believe how low the dosages Samson is taking to build the amount of muscle he has.

I mean, it's just absurd.

And, and, and, and it's just, you know, you can't expect to have that if you don't have genetics like that, you know?

Right.

I remember you were talking about Keon in a podcast where he was like, I can't remember, was it Branch Warren or something?

He was like

training styles with like Branch Warren and stuff.

And at a certain point, he was just like, bro, I can't train like this anymore.

It's like fucking destroying my elbows and

all this shit.

And then you were just like, well, bro, you're Keon.

You can train almost any kind of way and you'll fucking blow up.

Yeah, for sure.

And

that's not to say that Keon doesn't train extremely hard.

He does.

Exactly.

Keon does.

Yeah, he trains really fucking hard.

And Keon is dialed in and you know it works for him.

And

that's a man on a mission right there.

know, but is it necessary for him to train like Branch Warren?

Absolutely not, you know.

Right, right.

In fact, it's probably less optimal, anyways.

You know,

some, some of us just aren't, like me specifically, especially, like, I freaking like, dude, I was just walking this morning, doing my fastest morning cardio, and I'll do as fast of a power walking as possible.

I started getting this intense knee pain just out of nowhere, like randomly.

Like,

it just like, bro, I'll do anything.

Like, I'll like go, like, I'll freaking, like, I'll pick up my backpack off the ground and suddenly, all of a sudden, I'll have my shoulder just like feel like it's popping out of place and stuff.

Just like the most random shit, where I feel like some people just don't have the genetics to be built with this level of like,

I don't know, fucking titanium indestructibleness.

Yeah, well, how old are you?

Uh, I'm

in my late 20s.

Okay, so you're just a baby, but

that's that's also like, you know, obviously being younger, I could get away with a lot more stuff than I, than I can now.

But, you know,

a lot of times,

you know, we are continuing to push our bodies to the limit and expecting yourself to feel good every day when you're continually taking these things to the complete extreme from a load exposure standpoint, from finding maximal recoverable volume.

Like our whole goal is to do as much volume as possible to right where it's like we're going to be fucked if we do a little more.

And then we just pull it right back here.

Well, this still is a zone where you're not going to feel great all the time, but it's kind of where that zone is where you make the most progress.

So, you know, we're talking about extremes here.

You know, we're not the guys that are training Monday, Wednesday, Friday in the gym and,

you know,

our weekend warriors.

So I think it's to be expected.

A lot of, I think a lot of guys come to me like, hey, man, my.

You know, I feel like a little bit of joint pain.

Obviously, we want to manage these things and we need to be mindful, but there is just something to be expected.

Like, yeah, dude, you're going to be, your legs are going to be sore, you know, and it's, you know, it's going to be uncomfortable sitting down on the toilet after a really fucking hard leg day and you know maybe you're you're you know your elbow starts to hurt you know these like you can't avoid these things if you're trying to build the most amount of muscle possible and i think there can be

like a diminishing return if if if you're fully set on making sure that you're like never in any pain like i I'm sorry, dude.

That's not going to happen.

Yeah, you're going to have a little bit of discomfort.

We got to push things, you know, to an extreme.

And obviously monitor these things and don't, you know, aggravate.

I'm always a big proponent of like training pain-free.

If you've got like an elbow issue, don't do something that pisses off your elbow, obviously, you know, but I think that too many people get caught up in like, obviously the current climate of like managing fatigue and doing things optimal.

It's, it's just created this like environment where people feel like they should.

never be fatigued and they should never feel run down and they should never need a deload and they should never need time off from the gym because they manage things so well in their training and it's like dude that's just not how the biggest bodybuilders in the world have built the most muscle you know it's just right right it just is it is and honestly i find myself rejecting those ideas more and more like i use i i am kind of seen as like uh i i know i get known for my training quite a bit and a lot of people like my training And I get associated with like really slow, intentional, methodical training.

And to be honest, there's a lot of questions in the QA about that, by the way.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So, I mean, to be honest, I am not a fan of slow training.

I don't, I mean, I think a slow negative can be beneficial, but I also think a slow negative can be really overrated, overemphasized, and completely unnecessary.

I would like to see guys move well.

I want to see a consistent rep cadence.

I want to see like a pause in the length and position and load the stretch as much as possible and control in those end ranges, make sure the change of direction is smooth.

You know, I always like to say when you're training, I want to think about like driving a car from stoplight to stoplight.

I want to accelerate and then I want to ease on the brake and stop and then I want to accelerate out.

You don't want to, you know, do a burnout and then lock it up at the stop sign and then do a burnout and lock it up at the stop sign.

Find those that rhythm to where you're consistently easing in and out of those end ranges.

And just move well and move controlled.

And it just doesn't have to be slow, to be honest.

I think too many people

mistake like smooth, consistent rep cadence with slow reps.

And that's just not the point.

Right.

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This is something I've talked about with, I talked about with Wesley visitors about our buddy Eric Janeke's training, which I think one of the problems with Eric's training, in my opinion, is

he focuses so much on the stretch, but it's almost like this over-exaggeration for

like he does this on a daily basis, but in my opinion, whenever he's like performing it for like a, for a video, for example,

it almost feels like an over-exaggeration to press what people should do, but then people take it

people take it to the extremes, right?

Yeah.

As he is.

And in my opinion, the places where I found the most growth for him,

looking at his transformation and also knowing him in person and seeing his workouts, is when he implements that specifically for his leg days.

Because what is he doing on most of his actual leg days is he's actually just doing

big compound movements like hack squat, where he's controlling the negative at the biggest stretch and then controlling the change of direction, but he's still fucking hitting it hard.

He's still going as heavyweight.

He's still going as close to failure as possible.

And then he's having a fuck ton of volume throughout the workout that he can manage.

And it's just, it's like different than when you're doing like, um,

like when you're doing, uh,

when you're doing that on a hack squat versus when you're doing that on a single arm cable row, your eccentric naturally on the hack squat is always going to be longer.

Yeah.

And it, that's where it makes sense.

But in

the uh, the upper body exercises, I feel like it can work for that, but it just doesn't, it doesn't, in my opinion, it doesn't provide any extra benefit.

The benefit is almost in my eyes, I feel like just,

it's almost the same across the board, whether or not you decide to go that slow or if you want to do it a little bit quicker at a more consistent tempo and end up hitting more reps at the same load.

Like you're still providing this stimulus for growth as long as you get as close to failure as possible.

Yeah.

And I think the literature supports that.

I mean, it'll show that there's really no difference between a

one-second negative and an eight-second negative.

You know, I think anywhere from that like two to three-second negative, but like you said, you know, something like a hack squat where there's a larger range of motion and heavier load, I think it makes a lot more sense to be in that three-second rep range opposed to, let's say, a bicep curl or a,

you know, cable pull down or something.

Like, it's just not necessary.

And what I see a lot of guys doing is focusing so much on this negative that that it is not the tension is not in the muscle you're seeing it in the joint like you're seeing these guys loading the shit out of their biceps just kind of struggling to maintain this this like five second negative and i think it's hurting people to be honest that's why i always just encourage move well move smooth control the end ranges and just don't really worry about like that that speed in between because it just is not that important.

How close do you feel like you go to failure in each each set?

And then how many times do you actually go to failure per workout?

Would you say?

Well, I'll be honest.

I'm kind of like a go-to-failure every single set of every single movement.

I will say

I just enjoy that.

And I'm not saying that's the most optimal way.

Like, I just really like training hard.

And that just, that's just what I feel like.

has always worked for me in the past.

Right.

Now, there's some caveats here.

Let's say I'm doing a

lateral raise.

I will do a lateral raise to failure and I'll jam out 15 fucking partials.

I don't give a shit.

You're talking about a lateral raise.

Yeah.

Now we're talking about a leg press where I've got, you know, 10 plates aside, 12 plates aside.

I hit

eight reps and I could maybe get that one more.

I'm probably not going to take it.

I just don't need it.

I think it can be a little dangerous to

take that final like shit your pants rep on a leg press or a hack squat.

And the return on investment, I just don't think is there when you're talking about how much that can detract for the subsequent sets.

So, let's say I could get that ninth rep, but it is a motherfucker and I get off that leg press, you know, seeing stars, and I'm out of breath.

And I'm, you know, and then the next set, I underperform because I put so much into that final rep.

So, I think there's a, there is,

there is value in like some reps in reserve.

I don't personally subscribe to like a

three reps in reserve.

I'll leave one on a big compound movement like a deadlift.

Let's say it's a stiff leg deadlift.

And, you know, I know I could probably grind out one more.

I don't always take it.

Sometimes I do because I want it.

You know, sometimes I do that, that final rep on the leg press because I just, I fucking wanted to take it today and it felt good and I went for it.

And I annotate that in my logbook and I make sure that like, yo, I, I hit, I will leave notes to myself, like,

you know, got 10, took the last rep, probably shouldn't have whatever.

Or maybe it went well.

Maybe you surprise yourself.

Sometimes you end up smoking that last rep when mentally you think you don't have it.

And I think there's there's also something to be said there to kind of pivot off of.

When we're talking about reps and reserve,

I don't think you can effectively train reps in reserve unless you've done those hardcore, fucking shit your pants reps on the leg press.

Like if you've never completely buried yourself and never done a hack squat where you're going down that last negative and you're fucking terrified it's not going to come back up.

Like if you've never actually gone back up, hit a wall and then had that hack squat bury you, then you just don't know you don't know what your your perception of failure is just is is skewed because a lot of times you'll think okay i've got two left and then you do two and then you do three and then you take a deep breath and you do one more and then you're at the top one i might have one more so if you've never done that I think you absolutely need to train balls to the walls, hardcore failure sets before you can accurately assess what reps and reserve looks like.

So I think, you know, one has to come before the other.

This is why I wanted you to get on the pod, bro.

I remember listening to your, whenever I'd listened to you on a podcast, I always just felt like you were like, I always just felt like you were so logical.

And like, you would always say the responses that I like wanted to say, but it was harder for me to like put into the right words.

Fuck, to be honest, bro,

I was a little worried about how

inarticulate I might come across today because I'm fucking smoked.

I'm so tired and hungry today.

I just I just did like 45 minutes of cardio and had one very small meal before this podcast.

And I'm drinking this coffee just like hoping I get some mental acuity and I can come to life.

So I'm glad that I'm able to to perform here a little bit.

Yeah, you're doing you're doing a good-ass job.

I appreciate it.

I'm actually, I actually, it's hilarious.

I did literally the exact same thing too, 45 minutes of cardio and then had

my coach isn't going to like this, but I did only have 30 grams of protein before the the podcast, so I went to oh, okay, because you like to have a lower food amount before these things.

You feel like that keeps you a little sharper?

Yeah, I just can't have my gut too full, man.

Like, my mind is way too sensitive to how much is going on in my gut.

So, the more empty my gut, the better I feel, the more clear my mind is.

Yeah, do you feel like carbs throw that off as well?

Do you think feel like a high carb meal?

Oh, 100%.

Yeah, interesting.

Uh, now, if it's carbohydrates, like from cyclic dextrin, for example, that fast-acting carbohydrates, I, it almost, um, I have no issues.

Like, I don't know if it benefits my brain or not, but I definitely have zero issues.

And I'd suppose because it's just a very fast-acting and easy access way for the carbohydrates to be absorbed and then maybe go to go to my brain as glycogen or whatever.

Yeah.

Um,

I don't know if that's total BS or not, but maybe, maybe

starchy carbs or anything like that.

It's interesting you say that because if I do like some, you know, cyclic dextrin,

I have a hard time with that stuff.

I get super bloated and I don't digest it very well, but you know, white rice potatoes, I'd be just fine.

Like, I, I would,

it's the exact opposite for me.

Whoa, that's crazy.

Yeah.

That's awesome, though.

I, I, that's,

that's so crazy to me.

I love, I fucking love the podcast because people will always surprise the shit out of me.

And then this is just another point for me to tell people, like, you can't, you can't keep assuming that you know somebody.

You can't.

Everybody is so different in every aspect.

Fucking training, nutrition, gear, everything.

It's just, it's nuts.

That's why some of these coaches blow my mind.

I'm just like, I don't know how you guys like freaking Petor and Hanny and stuff.

You just somehow you're able to tailor your program perfectly for every single client and just like learn their body.

It's mind-blowing to me.

Yeah.

I mean, that's that's what good coaching is going to boil down to is your ability to communicate with the athlete and get these biofeedback markers and understand what's what works and what doesn't.

A lot of people get stuck in their ways and that's just that's just not good coaching.

So, um, regarding the training, and since we were just discussing your training style and also uh the cycles that you were going through in your last offseason that made you grow.

Um, I don't know, I think one of the cool things to me is that like you are new in the field and that you started your first show was in 2019, which is crazy.

That's when I got my fucking pro card, and I suck.

Um,

um,

I uh

I guess I'm just so curious, like,

because I have a few questions about just training and a bunch of these other things that apply to this, but I feel like it would be more important for me to lay down a foundation and kind of understand where you came from here.

And I know you've talked about your past and your

training and what got you into bodybuilding before, like how it was kind of like a competition maybe with a friend.

Like he bet you like, like, I'll do a show if you do a show type thing, right?

Yeah, it was a friend of mine who was like a men's physique guy.

And I was just like, dude, do classic like at the time 2019 i think classic came out what 16 is that what year it was i don't i don't remember but that was like i'm trying to remember but yeah breon ansley was winning the olympia at the time um and i was like dude you know men's physique's gay bro you know do do classic and he was like you know if you do classic i'll do it i was like all right yeah whatever and then i was like started talking my wife and then listen at the time like i'd been training natural for you know six seven years at that point and my wife and i owned a gym gym like i loved training and i loved physical fitness and and my wife was a power lifter and we were super into it we you know started a gym together and this was our passion and do you remember how old do you remember how uh how heavy you were at the time uh it was like i was like 195 to 200 ish it's kind of where i sat

natural yeah so i like yeah and how tall are you i'm 5'8

so okay cool same i like i said i i out of half an inch Yeah, yeah, me too, probably at this point.

I think maybe the barbells shrunk me down a little bit.

But, you know, we were gym owners, and obviously, you know, I trained five days a week.

And

I didn't, you know, I didn't have like the working knowledge of bodybuilding and diet.

And it just, you know, I didn't, I was more, you know, focused on my businesses and that type of stuff.

And training was just maybe a little more of a hobby than it was,

you know,

what it is now, obviously.

But at the time, time, you know, he I'd had zero plans of competing, I just never really wanted to compete, it was just something I didn't want to do.

I was like, focus on the businesses, started the gym, I have my cannabis businesses, I'm happy, and I felt fulfilled.

And then he, you know, he kind of made me that bet.

And I just got home and I was just thinking, I was like, maybe I will.

I was like, all right, I'm going to do classic.

I'm going to try to do classic physique.

So I reach out to his coach at the time, a friend of mine.

And

he's like, okay, let's get you on some drugs.

He gave me 500 milligrams of testosterone.

It's my first cycle ever.

And

I started that prep at like

204 pounds.

Like we kind of pushed up to like 205, 207.

And then

I got on stage as a light heavyweight of 198.

So like I lost like six pounds the whole prep.

So whoa, that was crazy.

Yeah, so I mean, I mean, I feel like it was a kind of like a grow into the show type situation since it was your first cycle.

Yeah, I probably put on like 15, 20 pounds of muscle, probably, I would say.

Fucking sick, like I needed to be leaner, I was not, I wasn't as lean as I needed to be, but I still like won the overall at the show and

was set up.

But um, yeah, I mean, I basically started and finished that prep at like the same body weight, so it was kind of a trip just like watching myself over this 16-week prep just get harder and harder, and like it's my first cycle, so it's just all super new to me.

Um, but yeah, that's how that's how it started.

And then, uh, as soon as I did my first show, I, I didn't make the classic weight cap, I couldn't get down.

I thought I could, you know, I started the prep at 200 and I needed to make like 188.

I thought, yeah, I thought it'd be easy.

I was like, I got 12 pounds of weight.

And I just, I never, I, I just never made it.

So I, I,

yeah, so I just, uh, I'm fucking,

I'm trying to make the classic weight cap right now.

Yeah, so I just, I did, I did bodybuilding.

And like, I did that first show and I was like, oh, I'm a bodybuilder.

My, the coach at the time was like, no, dude, you're a bodybuilder.

Like, you don't, you don't get it.

And at the time, I was like, yeah, you don't get it, dude.

I'm classic.

You know, and I just thought for sure that's what I wanted to do.

Like, I at the time, I was like, Breon was my guy.

I was like, Breon's the shit, he's winning the Olympia.

That's that's what I wanted to do, is what Breon Ansley was doing, and uh, yeah, I just never made the way cap.

And then, um,

yeah, I did open bodybuilding, and then uh, two years later, I turned pro.

And then the next year, I did

Chicago, won my pro debut, and went to the Olympia.

So, it all happened pretty fast, to be honest.

I mean, I guess there's that is fucking it was competed in 19, turned pro in 21, pro debut in 23, and did the Olympia.

Wow.

Okay.

That is dope.

This is a

weird question to ask, but how long do you think

that you are going to want to continue bodybuilding as a pro?

Like, do you feel like there's like an approximate age or something?

You feel like you're going to start slowing down?

Maybe retiring?

I mean, if I.

I know it's a little early to think about that.

It is, but I mean, honestly, I'm not a young guy.

I'm 37 years old, dude.

You know, but I didn't do my first show till I was 32.

You know, so I think training age-wise, I'm still very young.

I've been running, you know, I've been on stairways for five years.

You know, a lot of guys get 20 years competing, and I've been doing it for five.

So listen,

if I could squeeze out a decade more, I'd do it.

I love this shit.

I have no intentions of stopping.

You know, I don't think I'm anywhere near my prime, to be perfectly honest.

Like, I think, I think I'll see my prime at 40.

And I just, I don't, I don't see that going away.

I think I'm going to continue to push into my 40s.

I know that's a little bit controversial because, you know, white guys getting old, you just don't really see white guys in their 40s competing.

But, you know, my dad is a guy that

at 45 looked like, you know, everyone thought he was like our older brother.

You know, he just always looked super young.

And, you know, considering my training age and, you know, I just don't have that many miles on me.

I think I can do this for a long time.

I really, I really do.

I think so, too.

And one of the things that I liked discussing, I think it was probably Fuad's podcast, but they were saying that they feel like

I'm trying to remember the exact amount of years, but I'm pretty sure it was along the lines of like, no matter what, whenever you start gear, it seems like guys have at least 10 years in them

before it starts maybe potentially going up in the other direction.

But

I uh

who's the other guy that uh the dude that like stabbed someone like what it was like 15 to 50 times or something?

And he's a

shorter black dude that's on the Olympia stage, open bodybuilding.

He's like in his mid-40s.

Stab somebody?

What?

Killed somebody?

Who are you talking about?

I don't know if he killed somebody.

Ah, fucking.

God damn it, dude.

I'm just brain farting right now.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know who you're talking about.

Now I'm really curious.

Chat GBT it.

See who this fucking criminal is.

This criminal.

This degenerate murderer.

People in the audience definitely know who I'm talking about.

Have you discussed this

person before?

I'm sure I brought him up before, but

he won Detroit Pro, Detroit Pro in Open.

This year?

Wasn't that?

Yeah.

Isn't that

William Bonak

Bonak.

Oh my god.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I was aware of yeah, yeah, you're right.

Um, yeah, he did have something like that.

Bonak is the stabber.

Yeah, Bonak's the fucking man, and he was acquitted.

Okay, so anybody out there calling him a criminal, fucking take it back.

Yeah, that's funny.

Yeah, I forgot about that, but yeah, I was aware of, I'm not aware of the specifics, but yeah, he's a gangster.

Yeah, that guy, i'm just it's it's so cool to see a lot of guys like him who are i understand that like you're white but uh

it's different dude it is if for whatever reason like you know i can be racist against white people like us white us whiteys dude we just like we just don't have the longevity in the game you know you start seeing our our waists get super wide and our legs disappear you know the old pull

even like now at your age right now you're your face looks

like no homo but your face looks so fucking smooth oh thanks dude i need to shave I would look a little rough, but I feel, I feel like,

I feel like you have those young genetics.

Some people just do, bro.

Some, some white people, like one of my buddies in my fraternity back then, he was like balding already.

He already had a receding hairline at the age of 19.

I do see other guys who just like, bro, like you have a young training age, just having, you know, like you freaking blew up in a few years starting at the age of 32.

I'm pretty sure that your peak isn't going to be till 40 or even after.

Yeah, I think so.

I think so too.

I think I'm going to be progressing into my 40s.

Nope.

I don't, I don't even question it a bit.

But to be honest, I think a lot of that has to do with training natural for so long.

You know, like I, yeah, I was training in the gym consistently five days a week for like seven, eight years, natural, you know, and I, I never even considered taking drugs.

I wasn't going to compete.

I was eating, you know, four, four meals a day, like, you know, consistently eating like bodybuilding type meals, like a steak and rice.

And, you know, obviously me and the wife would be having cheat meals and stuff, but I had been kind of walking the walk casually, nothing crazy.

But, you know, training five days a week, natural for seven, eight years.

And then

I took,

I ran a cycle and blew the fuck up.

Like, you know, you have to, you have to have that foundation.

Like I had an understanding and a commitment level.

And I, I also completely understood the implications of what I was doing.

I didn't go into this blind.

I went in with a good coach.

I hired somebody who could, who could steer me in the right direction.

I had my training dialed in.

I had my nutrition dialed in.

I was a guy who always consistently got eight hours of sleep.

There was no fuck around on my schedule.

So when I started this, yeah, I blew up, but it was also, you know, the previous damn near decade of habit building that allowed that to take place.

Yeah.

Regarding the IUs as well, the 46 I use, you're not the first person who talked about that being basically the standard.

Yeah.

Wesley Visitors was discussing that.

And he and I were both discussing how we've listened to John Jewett talk about how like 4IUs kind of is like the baseline for super physiological levels that you like I like six I'm gonna be I'll be out there and say that like six IU is usually what I run it's what I'm running right now I think six IU for me is the sweet spot I've done eight I've done four and I just kind of like to be right at that six that's that's where I feel like I get the most out of it yeah

Yeah, I had had to titrate up slowly over the, well, not because I chose to, but because that's what my coaches gave me.

When I was with Kyle, it was like two IUs at first, and then I went up to three with Patrick, and then Patrick brought me up to four four IUs for this last offseason and then now as prep started he bumped up the test and bumped up the GH not sure what his reason why is but he's he's the goat so I'm sure there's a good reason there and I'm running five two and a half in the morning two and a half at night and um every single time it bumps up I feel a little bit more numbing in my hands and a little bit more whatever and then it goes away and I feel fine yeah some people just can't tolerate it and it's funny you say that because I two IUs and my hands felt like they're gonna fucking fall off and I think that was from years of riding BMX like before before i i bodybuilded i was i was you know really into bmx i rode you know bikes my whole life and uh yeah dude my i would get such severe carpal tunnel pain that it would like go all the way up into my armpit and my whole arm would be dead and uh yeah i just couldn't couldn't do it so i i end up getting carpal tunnel surgery on both my hands so they you know they come in here looks like i painted my fingernails looks like it looks like i'm you here right you got your fingernails painted don't you

i pinched my fingernail plate Oh, I thought you did.

Not that, yeah, maybe I'm just talking shit, but um, oh, that's crazy.

Yeah, they come in, they slide, they slice you open here, they cut, cut the band that goes over the carpal tunnel, and then uh, now I can run as much GH as I like.

Nice, yeah.

How, how, uh,

so I'm assuming that you obviously felt like that surgery was super worth it and everything, because my mom is carpal tunnel, and I'm sure that I inherited it from her.

Yeah, inherited a lot of problems from her.

Yeah, my, my mom also had, had carpal tunnel, and uh, yeah, I don't, I I don't know how much of that is genetic or hereditary or just

circumstantial or environmental purposes, like the BMX.

But I've just kind of had it my whole life.

You know, I'd go ride motorcycles for the day with my dad and my brother in the woods.

And, you know, from gripping the handlebars, my hands would just go numb.

So it's just always the case.

And then I put a little bit of GH in.

It was like, holy fuck, dude, I can't do this.

Dude, yeah.

Crazy.

So yeah, I got the surgery.

and it was, yeah, it was a game changer for sure.

Do you remember how much it was?

I had insurance that covered it.

But it's pretty, it's pretty fairly non-invasive.

I mean, you're in LA, right?

Yeah.

I mean, you have so many good surgeons around there.

I mean, it's like a, it's nothing.

It's such a little surgery.

I know a guy, so like I did mine one at a time, but I know a guy, a buddy of mine in Portland that got it done both hands and was like training within two weeks.

Wow.

That is amazing.

I don't know why my mom doesn't just think about doing the surgery.

Do it, dude.

Yeah.

I mean, it, to me, it just, it was like completely like life-changing.

Cause even without GH, like I'm not, I'm not saying just for taking fucking drugs or, you know, growth hormone.

That my hands falling asleep at night was just something I've dealt with since I was, you know, a young teenager.

So I'm always dangling my arm off the edge of the bed, trying to get sleep, rotating side to side.

You know what I mean?

Like you just like fucking shaking your hand and fucking slapping it, trying to get some blood flow to it um so it's something that i've always dealt with and then it was just completely exacerbated and and blown way out of proportion with the with the growth hormone so yeah it's okay it was it was uh life-changing for me All right.

I'll look into that.

Yeah.

This is one of the Q ⁇ A questions, but I feel like it's better to just ask it now anyways.

And I'll say his name whenever the Q ⁇ A comes up anyways.

But

he's asking who, and I don't know if there was a who or if it's just something you learned over time, but

was there a person that inspired you to train the way that you do?

Or

how did you kind of just start with this type of training?

It was Matt.

Yeah, Matt Jansen.

When I hired Matt,

he was all over me about my training.

You know, I was a higher volume guy.

I love to do, and this is just like

being inexperienced and not really understanding.

I used to really like to do super sets and big strip sets and tons of volume where I'd go like eight plates on the leg press with like shitty half reps and then do a strip set, you know, seven plates, six plates, five plates, four plates, three plates, and then I'm doing walking lunges, like just like whatever I could do to just murder myself in the gym.

Yeah.

And to be honest, I started shifting away from that and I started paying attention to people that are much smarter than me, like, you know, JP and Matt at the time was a big training resource.

And, you know, Mountain Dog, like paying attention to John Meadows.

And I started doing my own research as I started to get actually into bodybuilding.

So once I was actually bodybuilding, you know, guys like John Jewett, you know, I paid close attention to what he was doing because he's put out tremendous information for a really long time.

So I started paying attention to these guys.

But when I started working with Matt, he was a guy that like every check-in, he required that I send him like five training videos and he picked them apart.

Like he was ruthless and made sure that I trained really well.

And he helped me a ton.

So really,

I, you know, drew inspiration from, you know, a handful of people, like I mentioned.

But when it comes to, you know, who is there in my corner building my training programs, helping me with execution, it was Matt, Matt Jansen.

Wow.

Yeah.

I got to be real that, you know, with some of the stuff that was coming out about Matt several months ago, too, it's kind of really cool to hear this truth and I guess this perspective, this truth of yours that you've experienced with Matt.

Cause, I mean, from

I think from anyone that just listens to the stuff a few months ago, there's no perception that like Matt is on top of his clients, helping him with things literally as detailed as like training videos on a regular, you know, because there's a lot of coaches that don't do that.

Yeah, I think, I think Matt obviously reached a point in his life where

maybe the coaching quality started to fade in the presence of his other businesses and priorities that he had and his family.

And he started shifting away from it.

And he was transparent with me and was like, hey, this is, you know, I'm going to to be starting to take it a step back.

And, and before that whole thing transpired, him and I had had, you know, very clear communications about him walking away.

And then there was just a few like, you know, videos that come out.

And, you know, unfortunately, it's like, you know, Google reviews on a business, but some of these guys have huge followings and are able to put this on YouTube where like Matt has had thousands of very happy, successful clients, Olympia champions, you know, fucking

how many pro cards has that guy won?

I mean, like, he completely changed everything for me.

I mean, Matt's the man.

I owe him a lot.

But yeah, a few people had a bad experience, and

that

happens.

But sometimes those people just have an audience, and that stuff spreads like wildfire.

And it was really unfortunate because I think Matt at the time knew, like, hey, I just...

I don't have the same passion for this that I used to anymore and I'm going to be walking away.

And then it just kind of imploded on him as he was already making that exit, you know.

But, you know, anybody who worked with Matt in his heyday and his prime knows how incredibly passionate Matt was, how fucking smart Matt is, and how dedicated he was to his athletes.

And I love Matt.

Matt's a friend of mine, and

I owe a lot to him for where I'm at now.

And right now I'm with Justin Jacoby, who's a Camp Jansen coach who kind of, you know, works under Matt.

And there's definitely a fair amount of similarities there.

So it's very comfortable going to Justin.

And Justin's a good friend of mine, but he very much does his own thing.

And

Justin is such a good coach, man.

I'm so happy with him.

He's a really sharp kid.

He reminds me of Matt in his prime.

He's very, very passionate.

Right now, bodybuilding is like, it is all he cares about.

Being a coach is everything to him.

Like winning is everything to him.

So he loves this stuff so much.

And, you know, that's what I needed was somebody who could, you know, really be passionate and take me to the finish line of this career.

So I'm really happy to be with Justin right now.

The passion is my favorite thing in the coach.

Like when you can just feel it, you know, how much this person loves it, how much this person is so.

You send a good, you send a good check-in and you can just hear how fired up they are, you know?

Yeah, it's, it's cool.

It's, yeah, it's inspiring.

Yeah.

And Justin and I, really cool, you know, we turned pro together in 2021 at National.

So we stood on that overall stage together.

Matt Jansen was our coach.

So there's some history there that really tied in and it's kind of coming full circle.

So it's cool, man.

I'm, I'm stoked about it.

Do you feel like,

because I'm thinking about some of the things I remember hearing you say some of the things about how

Matt would

like, you just really felt like Matt really believed in you.

Yeah.

And

in my opinion, too, from my own personal experience,

that's a huge propelling force for myself is the people that believe in me, especially when it's my own coach.

It just,

I don't know, every week like you get that check-in and you just can feel it from him it really does

it gives me it's like the drive that's already there it just fucking it just explodes yeah it just allows it to like radiate and allows me to like really i think tap into that so um yeah i think with with matt one of his best coaching qualities was his ability to

create that self-belief within his athletes.

And that came from the sense of belief he had in you.

It wasn't that he's blowing smoke up your ass.

Like, if he's a very objective guy, but he knew I had what it took to be, to be a top professional, and he made me aware of that.

And he brought it out in me, you know.

And, and, um, and it's, it doesn't always work for everybody.

It's not like his approach would work for every single person.

He could create that relationship.

You can't force those type of things.

Um, but him and I clicked really well, and he definitely created a level of self-belief that I just didn't have before.

Like, I, to be honest, I've said this before, and I naively, when I, when I

did my first show in 2019 I was like dude four years I'm on the Olympia stage I said that shit I was like I'm doing that and it's like I had no business saying that but I did it I actually did do that I had I had I have a screenshot of a message that somebody sent me where they're like hey man you know I could see you in five years being a really good pro

and I and I said I said on in 2023 I'll be on the Olympia stage And it's like, I don't know what I was thinking saying that, but I remember obsessing over that.

I remember seriously obsessing over that and just saying, like, no, fuck that.

I had this game plan.

I was like, I'm going to turn pro.

I'm taking the year off.

I'm winning my parade debut.

I'm going to the Olympia.

I just talked about that and made that happen and really believed in myself.

And I got with a coach who believed in me.

And

obviously, none of it happens without, you know, hard work and, you know, good genetics and all these other factors that clearly play a role.

But yeah, from a very early, from very early on in my career, I believed in myself.

what do you feel like has made you most anxious in your journey so far most anxious in my journey so far

you know we talked about age and now and and maybe that like the biological clock is kind of ticking and and sometimes maybe i feel like as much as i want to be patient i i i am anxiety ridden saying do i have the time do i have the luxury to be patient right now

So I'd say that, you know, and I think that my level of patience has definitely helped me.

I will say moving forward, I'm not going to be taking any years off.

I mean, I'm going to compete every year until I'm done with my bodybuilding career.

The way it lined up coming off the Olympia, I just didn't feel like I had the time to progress.

And then I had the gut health issues and I took the time and now I'm, you know, coming into this prep.

So

I would say that that probably, probably that.

And obviously balancing business and relationships throughout bodybuilding, it can be really difficult.

My brother and I are business partners on the cannabis stuff.

And,

you know, it can, it can put a strain on things when I'm not able to be as present or even emotionally available or excited for things because you're just so hyper-focused on bodybuilding.

So, I've had to work on

not just completely zoning in on one particular thing.

So,

what do you feel like causes that to happen?

And when do you feel like that happens most?

I mean, you know, this, that last four weeks of contest prep, it's hard to think about anything else, you know?

You know, right now you're 11 weeks out.

It can, it can feel a little casual 11 weeks out.

And then you get to those single digits and then you blink and you're four weeks out.

And then it's like, you know, it's, you start obsessing over.

And

it can be a good thing because I think that that, like, that internal pressure can drive us to work hard and accomplish our goals, but can also detract from other important things in your life where maybe your relationships get pushed aside.

You know, maybe I'm not as communicative and open with my wife.

Maybe I'm not as communicative with my business partner.

And some of these things can, you know, fall by the wayside.

But as long as you have good people in your corner who support you, who understand what you're going through, want to see you win, you'll find that like, you know, my wife gives me a lot of grace.

My brother gives me a lot of grace and he wants to see me win.

And my wife wants to see me win.

So in these times when I'm, you know, ultra-focused and locked in, I have a fucking wonderful support system of people who love me and want me to win.

And that's so important.

I can't be more grateful for the people in my life who support me.

Thanks for letting me ask those, by the way.

I know they can be a little weird and heavy questions, but

it's something I feel myself.

And I think

the support system, especially for myself, has been more invaluable than anything I could have ever experienced.

Because prior to doing any of this,

it's weird.

It's weird and hard to say because like I hate, I hate it when I'm like telling my truth and I'm like, I never had support.

Like I was alone, like all this shit.

Like, sounds, I don't know.

It just sounds fucking weird for me to say, but I guess like the truth of it is when I was turning pro and the only person I had was my ex at the time that she was, she literally gave me this little for my 21st birthday, I got this little box because it was peak week of my first show for my 21st birthday.

She gave me this little box with like these protein flavored, this birthday cake flavored protein bar, and then some other shit that I was supposed to have for prep that, like,

like there's nothing else I could fucking do for my birthday.

Yeah.

Um, and that was nice to have her, but aside from that, like, I never had anyone at my shows, and we broke up like shortly after.

And I didn't really have any friends that were there, and my parents didn't support me because they just wanted me to be an engineer, and they thought I was wasting my time, um, and etc.

All these things.

So, um, now I'm at the place where, like, having the girl that I have who does the same thing as me, who also bodybuilds and also preps, and

being able to have her and even like a couple of my closest friends come to my, I don't know, it's just, it was so different that like the first prep I had as a pro, which was just last year,

was like, it was like 10 times easier.

Yeah.

It was 10 times easier.

Yeah, but would you, would you have been able to appreciate that for what it was had you have not gone through your, you know, earlier stages of your life not having those support systems?

You know, I mean, I think that, you know, you kind of have to, deal with those things to really appreciate what you have.

And I think for you, I know you say it feels uncomfortable saying these things, like maybe it sounds like a pity party, but I think you being vulnerable and being open can help people who may be in a situation where they don't feel supported and they look at you who've curated, you know, a career and success despite that.

And now you've built an environment where you do have those things.

And I think that's, that's incredibly valuable.

And I think, you know, you should continue to speak on that.

And I don't think you, I don't think you do it in a way that comes off like you're asking for pity or anything like that.

You're just telling your story, man.

Thanks, Brielle.

Thanks.

And you're 100% right.

Like,

I always remind myself, like, if I didn't have these experiences, I wouldn't be able to feel so,

it's just so much easier for me to feel the gratitude now for these things.

Just being able to remember where I came from, remember

how there were points, there are a lot of years in my life and in my childhood where I didn't even want to be alive and I didn't even want to be around where like now I can think about everything I have and it's like, God, dude, I can't believe I'm here.

Like, I forget on a daily basis, but when I really bring myself to that point where I remember where I came from, it's like, holy shit, dude,

I cannot believe I have what I have now.

And I feel so blessed to be here.

Yeah, that's beautiful, man.

I always say that I had the

huge luxury and benefit of being raised perfectly.

You know, my mother was, she was a fucking amazing mom.

She was just such a

like true North.

You know, if you always listen to my mom, you always did the right thing.

And she instilled like such amazing values in us.

And she was also the mom that like fed me oatmeal and eggs in the morning before school.

And we had, you know, steak and potatoes for dinner.

And she cooked and she cared and she nurtured us.

And my father was incredibly hardworking and valuable or vulnerable.

And I never felt like I had to be afraid of my emotions or anything like that in my household.

There was never any, you know, domestic abuse or anything like that.

You know, we are a quirky family and, you know, we, you know, maybe had our issues, but I just, I look back at the environment that my parents created for me growing up.

And I know that I played a humongous role in who I am today.

And I couldn't be more valuable, more appreciative of that.

And

I will say that I have, you know, cousins and friends that didn't have that.

So I've been exposed to it.

And I had, you know, my, one of my closest friends, you know, live with us through high school because his parents were junkies.

And, you know,

I've seen the repercussions of what these

upbringings can.

can lead to.

So it's just, while I have experienced an amazing upbringing and

had amazing parents, I've also been surrounded in people who didn't have that.

So I've been able to maintain my appreciation for it

because I was never fully sheltered from it.

You know, it was always kind of around me.

So

I

just

don't know where I'm going with this, but I think just all I'm saying is that I feel extremely lucky to have had the parents I have and the upbringing and the support system.

Thanks for sharing that, dude.

Um, I think uh,

this is probably like a conversation that I just really need to have right now, to be honest, because um, it's been hard for me to click on that perspective in the last couple of days with everything going on.

Um, it's kind of been easy to feel like,

like,

I know,

so uh, I guess, um,

it's so weird to, you know, how like a father, like fathers want to protect their daughter?

Yeah.

In a way, like, I,

it's, I, it's, sometimes it's weird for me to talk about it in this kind of sense, even though we know from like a scientific standpoint that it is true that, um,

the dynamic that a lot of men have that with their woman kind of like, in a way, sort of reflects how she had with her dad and stuff.

And I don't know, I think this perception that I had with my partner, with my girl, has always been like, I want to make sure that I nurture her to become the best woman that she can, that I'm always supporting her to the best of my ability and I'm protecting her in every possible sense that I can.

Yeah.

So I think with her having this amazing childhood like you did, where she grew up to be this really amazing person that is very self-aware,

extremely amazingly self-aware for her age, which is just, I think, a beautiful thing.

able to hold herself accountable in certain situations, even if she feels emotionally reactive, she's always able to bring her back, herself back to that place where she's like, I understand what's really happening.

I can take accountability for it.

I don't have to be, take this victim mentality and I can move on and move forward.

Like she's become this really amazing person from her childhood.

And I think I've just had this sense of like, man, I want to make sure that I protect her from.

the world's pain, which I know is kind of a silly thought.

You just can't.

Sometimes life just happens as it does.

You know, life does things to you and that you can't control.

And I think right now I am being hit with the realization that like

I,

that that is still the truth.

Even though I'm the one that incurred through all this pain and I wanted to continue to be that person and I guess protect her as much as I can,

there are these things that are out of my control and she is going to have to experience a lot of the pain that I have regardless.

So I think that's what I'm trying to process right now.

Well, I think there's like just as a as a man, as an adult, you know, you want to be a provider and a protector and it can provide a lot of purpose.

Like, I know I want to be a good provider for my wife, you know, she obviously, you know, works and makes her own money and, and she, you know, brings value to the family in her own ways, but there's still that part of me that just yearns to be a provider, you know, so I think there's some value, some, it provides some purpose.

So, I guess this brings me to like one of the biggest purposes of my podcast and why I also openly

openly discuss trend and shit.

Yeah.

Because one of the things that i'm just like really into is just the medical community and um i think the idea of mitigating risks to the biggest um potential that we possibly can it just is kind of a cool thing to me because one i'm i'm like i've always been into health my dad's like he's a professor in ag econ so he kind of studies a lot of uh i guess um some of the health repercussions of like the current diet in America and everything.

So I've always been interested in health and fitness.

And I think it's super cool that like in bodybuilding, it's going as fucking hard as possible while

mitigating as much of the risks as you possibly can in training, in gut health, and in PED use.

Right.

So

I guess what I have to ask is like, I know you've told me that one of the things that you're super anxious about right now or that you have been in your journey has partly been your age

and like this almost like lack of time.

But at the same time, I have noticed that you're super self-aware.

You train with a lot of, I think, consciousness in mind.

And

I think, you know, maybe if it's some conscious or not,

making sure that you're not like injuring yourself along the process and doing some crazy, crazy shit.

Is there anything that you happen to do with like your organ health, your blood work, mitigating risks from PEDs, like ancillaries?

Is there any like kind of things that you do on a daily basis or, or at least on a consistent basis for yourself?

Well, we talked about kind of,

you know, hereditary issues.

And my mother always had high blood pressure.

So when I started driving my body weight up immediately, I just had high blood pressure.

You know, it wasn't necessarily PED related.

It was just body weight.

So that was one thing that I did immediately was get on blood pressure medication.

And I think that everybody should be paying attention to that.

You should be monitoring your blood pressure.

That's really a big one.

So, and a lot of people will be just leery of

taking the pharmaceutical, like a pharmaceutical intervention for something like that, but don't be.

You know, I don't think there's any better way to address this.

Obviously, you know, diet and cardio and not making sure that you're not, you know, too fat, these things can obviously mitigate this.

But if you're just a guy who has high blood pressure, Medicaid, don't worry about it.

I get my blood work done three times a year, typically.

And I personally think that HD Muscle has the best health line our industry has to offer.

You know, their liver and kidney product,

their

Vita HD, like the multivitamin that we have, these are fucking incredible products.

They were all formulated with Dr.

Khan.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dr.

Khan, but he's, you know, world-renowned doctor.

Guys, brilliant.

And he helped formulate these these um

these formulations and uh so that's something that's obviously start part of my daily routine is making sure i'm consistent with health supplements and you got a code

uh yeah code shire yeah

hdmuscle.com code shire fire uh yeah no thanks for the plug um but but yeah i was lucky enough to to start bodybuilding with a coach who was very health conscious and made me get my blood work, you know, made me, you know, have a consistent regimen of health supplements.

Like Matt was was really big on health supplements and made sure that I had a routine built from the beginning.

And I think that that's not that's not always prioritized with younger guys coming up.

I think a lot of people will fire into a cycle and then say they can't afford the the liver supp liver and kidney supplements.

Like if you can't afford the

if you can't afford the supplements, then you can't afford the drugs.

That's the way I look at it.

If you can't afford to get your blood work done, you can't afford to have

these things in place to potentially mitigate any issues, then you can't afford to

take drugs.

You know, your $50

bottle of fucking Trent Ace,

you know, get make sure you put $50 worth of health supplements with that.

You know what I mean?

Another reason why it's always

maybe a good idea to not potentially blast just 10 grams of gear year-round is

there's a couple prices to pay.

One is your wall-in, the other one is probably your lifespan.

Yeah, yeah, for some reasons.

There's some reasons.

Yeah.

I've been lucky to get away with moderate dosages.

I mean, you saw that off-season, it was like, you know, 750 milligrams of test.

And like, don't get me wrong,

I will run up 900.

I've drawn 1,000.

I've done these things, but I don't really see much of a difference between 750 to 1,000.

And I've just always gained a good response from a lower dose PED approach.

And a lot of that's going to be genetics.

Some people have different responses.

Some people are going to need to push the envelope a little bit harder.

And I've been fortunate to where I've just never really had to be overly aggressive with compounds to get a response.

So that's just a genetic thing that I'm very lucky to have.

That's another discussion that I really enjoyed that I had with some

of my guests, like Dr.

Dean, is the discussion of fast versus slow metabolisms that also kind of dictate

your

fast

your hyper versus non-hyper responders.

Really?

What did he have to say about that?

I'm curious.

So basically, if you have a fast metabolism, then it's very

likely that the

obviously the compound doesn't stay in your system as long.

You're going to metabolize the drugs faster.

You don't reap the benefits of that compound, right?

But in turn, normally you also do not

experience the side effects that come with that as much either.

So if you are someone that has a slower metabolism and you do feel like you reap the benefits of the compound, of say like 500 milligrams of test, you are freaking experiencing the same gains as someone as like a gram of test.

It's very likely where you tend to feel side.

Like if you have similar genetics to them and similar responses in terms of side effects, it's very likely you'll feel about the same types of side effects that they do on a gram as you do on the 500.

Interesting.

It's like, it's like, really, and that's why I, that's why it's kind of hard to compare numbers to is like, um, I understand it's the easiest way for people to, I guess, do their own comparisons and kind of like judge where they need to sit because everybody needs to do this research in themselves and that takes forever, right?

Like trying to figure out where, what's what's the best dosage for you.

I understand everyone's just trying to figure it out, but

that's kind of why it's just, it's like, you really need to,

after you like go and reddit and you're like, you're like looking up like all the side effects that someone has on 600 milligrams of tests and how they feel and how many weight they've gained on 600 milligrams of tests.

And then you see all the other people saying like, like fucking, like you see like a comment that's like up like 200 and it's like, no, I like, I like, I like, blew, I blew up on freaking 750 tests or something, so you should, you should run that or whatever.

Like, I think

once you figure out a place that seems reasonable and maybe seems like what the mainstream has experienced as like the rate of gain that you want to gain, I think it's important that you sit back,

sit at that spot, and then you just at least record your weight,

how much strength you've gained and any other variables you can to like measure how much you've gained over time something i've added recently has been like the circumferences of my body parts in my off season yeah that's great until the end of my off season and then to prep um and just measure these all and then see how that's progress over time and then the last thing is checking out your blood work and then your your blood pressure and then measuring that on a consistent basis seeing how that changes over time for me for example going at these higher dosages i've noticed it's been even harder and harder and harder for me to manage my blood work, or not my blood work, my um blood work has been okay, but my blood pressure, yeah, yeah, yeah, like my blood pressure keeps teetering above 130 at these new higher dosages that I've been running, which is telling me, like,

making me realize, like, I probably shouldn't go above 750 tests anytime soon.

This is probably, I'm making good gains on this, I should probably stay on this for now

because I'm like already at 800 milligrams of telmasarin and it's still going on the level

above 130.

Yeah.

So

there's just like things like that, I feel like that are wise for people to pay attention to in order for them to

determine what is the best dose for them to run year-round in their off-season for long term.

Because you're going to be doing this for like, what, like five to 10 years trying to gain mass.

You're not just going to be doing this for one year.

So you don't want to have high blood pressure for 10 years.

Definitely.

And

it can be really difficult to quantify whether or not something's working.

And that's one more reason why I like to, you know, keep guys a little bit leaner and not, you know, skew visuals with body fat.

You know, I think a lot of people, for some reason, that like gaining two pounds a week, a pound a week is like this standard thing where you're like, okay, across 30 weeks, I should be 30 pounds out.

Well, maybe.

I mean, I don't know.

Are you fat after adding 30 pounds?

Like, probably not then.

You know, you want to be able to keep a good baseline of body fat to where you can assess muscularity.

You want to pay attention to these things.

And this is where, you know, logging your training is really important.

A lot of people will scoff at this, but if you did you add 100 milligrams of testosterone and then you saw a direct correlation with your leverages in the gym, did you get stronger from that 100 milligrams of testosterone?

Did your body weight increase?

I mean, how, how did visuals respond?

Like, you should be, even if you don't have a coach, you should be consistently assessing visuals.

You should find a location where you can take consistent pictures and document your off-season.

Like you said, taking measurements, I think that's great.

Any tools that you can use to kind of quantify your progress.

And you just have to be patient.

I mean, there's just no way you're going to go, okay, I ran a gram of test and in three weeks, like, am I better?

Is it working?

Like, dude, you don't know, you know, so minimum effective dosages, you know, start at a low dose.

You know, and

monitor things and see if you can quantify progress.

Stay relatively lean, leverage other things like food and training before you start leveraging drugs because so many people just want to take the easier route of just titrating up dosages.

And it's just the, that's not bodybuilding.

You know, bodybuilding, the foundation of bodybuilding is always going to be diet and training.

And I think that the training aspect of things is where is low-hanging fruit.

And I think a lot of people

will go in and have this buffet.

of movement selections where each chest day is completely different.

They started with a fly this day and then did this press and then they like this press and then you went to dumbbells and went back to barbell and then ran barbell for two weeks, but then they didn't get stronger on the barbell, said back to the dumbbells.

And you're like, dude you have to be patient and you have to make sure that these variables are all in line to where you can see whether or not you're making quantifiable progress because it's just you see those guys and i'm sure you competed with guys at your first show that were doing classic or light heavyweight six seven years later you're like they're doing that same show as light heavyweights still like i i have i have

People I followed on Instagram that I did my first show with in 2019 that were light heavies doing the local show.

Well, this year I watched these light heavies still doing the same show as light heavies.

I'm like, dude, what have you been doing for the last six years?

You know?

So I think

as much as some people want to say,

you know, you got top guys like, hey, Phil Heath never, never...

logged his training.

Yeah, well, Phil Heath could fucking open pickle jars for, you know, a few hours a day and have better arms than anybody in in the world you cannot pay attention to what phil heath is doing and try to base your progress and your trajectory off of what phil heath is doing yeah ronnie ronnie coleman didn't have a logbook you know jay jay cutler wasn't a logbook these guys are not normal people so it's it is imperative that you do not pay attention to what these guys are doing and basing and i'm not saying there isn't some value there obviously ronnie trained like a maniac he was extremely strong jay trained very hard.

He was very strong.

Loads of volume.

He hammered it.

He never missed a meal.

Incredibly consistent.

These are the takeaways, not necessarily the fact that they were able to get away with not having training programs.

You need to, you know, you need to put a little effort into, you know, whether or not you're being progressive because,

you know,

you'll go five years and realize that you haven't made a lick of progress.

Yeah.

These are always, it's always big picture, always.

And I think that's, that's what's very understated and what people kind of miss.

Yeah.

And if you

you know what's tough too?

And we've talked about this earlier.

We talked about, you know, midgets trying to play in the NBA.

Dude, I, I have had guys come to me

where,

you know, they've got low testosterone.

Okay.

We supplement.

I'm monitoring things.

running 300 milligrams of testosterone.

The average person is going to get a really good response from this.

Three, four months later,

nothing.

You know, you have guys coming to me that are running full-blown cycles who don't look like they've ever lifted weights in their life.

I mean, you see it.

Like these guys are taking two grams of gear.

And if you saw them on the street, you genuinely wouldn't know if they, I mean, you might think that guy might go to the gym.

I don't know.

I really don't know.

And this is that genetic response that we're talking about.

And

that's when you need to look at these other variables.

You know, what is your food like?

How is your training?

Are you being progressive in the gym?

Are you getting enough sleep?

And if all those things are ticked off and you're taking two grams of gear and you don't even look like you lift, stop.

Just, just stop.

Because it's just not for everybody.

It just, it just isn't for everybody.

And for whatever reason, bodybuilding is the one sport.

You don't see this shit in fucking NFL, NBA.

You don't see it on track.

You don't ever see anybody trying to set the world record in the fucking, you know, 40-meter dash.

you understand that how large of a role genetics play in that but for whatever reason every fucking you know stringy kid loaded with acne thinks they can make it to the olympia it's really tough there's a a really

and i don't want to harp on this and i don't think that anybody should give up on their dreams or not do something they love and and let somebody like myself steer them away from it but it is really important when we're talking about taking years off your life and and affecting your health and these really, really dire consequences when you're looking at running higher dosages, trying to achieve something that is just never going to happen.

The one devil's advocate position I'd have to say to that is,

which most people are not going to do, and that's an unfortunate case, is since most people aren't going to do this, then

your case is more likely where it's like, it's probably a good idea for you to step back from bodybuilding because you just don't have the genetics, unfortunately.

But if you do end up having the the money and take the time to check your blood work in a regular fashion, and if even potentially necessary, I got my DNA tested and that was really good for me because now I know my genetics and all the predispositions I have to various diseases.

If you can get that and you do scans accordingly based off of what you feel like is necessary, whether it's symptomatic or whether it's like it's in your genetics and your mom has it right now and you might have it.

So you should probably check for it or something at some point.

If you're checking these things and you're running high high dosages and nothing is changing, like your blood work is still pristine, like you, um, you don't have any like soft plaque buildup or whatever, just like just an etc.

Um,

then I feel like there's a potential where it's like, maybe I'm just like a very fast metabolizer, maybe it just means that I have to take higher doses than other people, yeah, yeah.

And then you still monitor from there.

And then, if you are making gains and things are starting to move in like a normal pace, then you know.

If you aren't making any gains, then I think that's like, and and then then your health starts going in a different direction.

Yeah.

And I think you know that you're not, you're not, you're just not made for it.

And you've also seen those instances where somebody takes 500 milligrams of testosterone and in six weeks their hair is completely falling out and they're covered in acne.

Yeah.

And you're, and, you know, these are personal decisions.

If that's, if that's something that you're willing to accept as part of the process,

I get it.

But you also see somebody, they sprinkle in just like the tiniest bit of nandrolone and their blood work is just destroyed.

You know, or like you run, you know, you check someone's blood work every eight works, eight weeks of a modest cycle and their blood markers are just a mess.

And you just go, oh, man, I could have ran triple that for the whole year and my blood wouldn't, blood blood work wouldn't look anything like that.

You know, and these are genetic things that just you don't have any control over, unfortunately.

And, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's nothing to be taken lightly for sure.

Are there any compounds that specifically just destroyed you or that you personally just don't want to really, you probably wouldn't take anymore?

To be honest, I've never really had

any

if I drive nandrolon too high, maybe I can get a little deca dick, you know, but like, you know, I'll take 500 milligrams of Deca, 600 milligrams of DECA, and have no issues.

I don't really get like anxiety from EQ or anything like that.

I really tolerate everything pretty well.

I've never had any issues.

The only thing, like, if I'm taking, I've tried taking anadrol and like it just completely messes my gut up and I can't eat.

You know, that's the, the, really, the one thing that I haven't been able to

do.

But yeah,

as far as injectables go, I've just never really had any issues or any like acute responses from

a health marker perspective.

You know, I've been able to tolerate things pretty well.

I will say, in the beginning, that's cool.

In the beginning, I had pretty bad acne.

So that was one thing I had right away was just a bunch of acne acne on my delts.

And I took Accutane.

So after that first show, I just like coming off of the show, and it was more of just, I think, like balancing estradiol and the big hormonal change, I had a really bad breakout, a little bit of acne through the prep, but I just could not get it under control.

And

I ran a course of Accutane, and I have not had a single pimple since.

Nice.

You know, Accutane can be harsh, and I don't always...

was just saying, accutane can be harsh, and I don't always suggest it because it's a pretty aggressive

way to go about it.

But for me, it was very worth it.

Yeah.

Okay, that's cool to hear.

Yeah, I've heard some people have really good success with it.

And then I know it's a very mixed.

Yeah.

I didn't run Accutane, but I had, I also had an experience where like my first

injection cycle, I had this fucking stupid story where I ran orals first, but my first actual test cycle, I

don't, I don't know if I'd consider myself,

I don't know if I would consider that I blew up, but I definitely fucking got a ton of acne and like a ton of like real, really weird, like clearly test side effects.

And

over time,

I think when I just started to learn how to manage my fluctuations, my hormonal fluctuation better, I just haven't had any issues since.

So I feel like that happens to a few people where like initially they'll like feel a surge of like side effects.

Yeah, sometimes sometimes you'll

have those issues.

Yeah, exactly.

I have those issues in the beginning.

And then as time goes by, it can go away.

I'll show you

this picture.

This is what my shoulders looked like when I when I first

you can kind of see that.

I'm trying to see it a little blurry.

I can kind of see it.

Anyway, just for the viewers here, actually, I think if I turn the

oh, that doesn't work.

Hold on a second.

I think if I turn...

Yeah, there we go.

It's better

oh yeah see what i'm saying yeah so like i had

i had pretty bad

yeah i had pretty bad cystic acne and i'll show you that like same same delt right now i mean look like

clean look at that baby

so yeah you would have no idea but i got i i addressed it early you know so i didn't i had a little bit of scarring that like over the next year or so faded

But when you see acne like that, like I, I immediately had to do something.

So if you do have, I mean, that can be life-changing stuff where you can get acne like that and have scarring for the rest of your life.

You know, it's tough.

Yeah, we see it a lot.

I mean, I don't know if you're a coach, right?

You do some coaching, right?

No, not anymore.

I was coaching like four years ago and then I just ended up not having more time.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I get a lot of clients that come to me and you'll just see, I'm like, man how long have you been dealing with this you know how long have you looked like that like taking your shirt off at the river or the you know the pool and your back is just covered in cystic acne i mean like you know and i a lot of people haven't just haven't been guided in in the right direction whether it's hygiene related whether it's like you know hey make sure you get out of your dirty clothes immediately after the gym you shower immediately make sure you're changing your bedding twice a week like sometimes these things can be a quick fix sometimes like we talked about before it's like hey you just can't run nandrolone because it it makes you break out like crazy so you switch to something else that that doesn't create these responses um so there's definitely things that you can do without just going like a pharmaceutical route like something like accutane um but

you know

that's that acne killed me man i was like i was so embarrassed by it it was it was really upsetting so um i'm i'm happy I did went the route I did.

I've been training for over 15 years now, and I was too lazy to track anything training-wise for about the first 10 years because science-based training is for pussies.

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You go full Joe Rogan on some of these.

I was noticing you got some fucking three-hour and three and a half-hour podcast on here.

I'm sorry about that, bro.

No, no, no, I mean, we weren't expecting that.

Yeah, I was scrolling your page before we did this.

And no, it's good.

I mean, it's just, it kind of speaks to your ability to.

It speaks to your ability to hold a conversation and maintain that.

I mean, it's, you know, some guys, some people can be tough to talk to for hours at a time.

But you make it easy, man.

It's easy.

It's been a very easy conversation to have.

Thank you, bro.

I appreciate that.

But I will say, I'm fucking hungry, and it's almost time to eat.

So, okay,

shit.

All right.

Now we're good.

Yeah, I actually like to, I like to, I want to always keep them below two hours, but it's just, it's actually hard for me.

And then a lot of my, a lot of my audience kept telling me, like,

I don't know, they're all nice.

Maybe they're just being nice, and maybe they're just trying to gas me up and shit, but they keep telling me that they want three-hour podcasts.

Yeah.

Well, dude, people, people put this shit.

Just do them.

So I don't know.

Yeah, people put this shit in their ear and listen to it for, you know,

their whole day at work and stuff.

So, you know, I know how it is.

You know, you put on a good podcast and get three hours out of it.

It's getting your money's worth.

Thanks, bro.

Thanks.

Before the Q ⁇ A, real quick, I was wondering, I wanted to ask personally, what was your favorite pep?

Pep.

What was your favorite pep?

Yeah, I can't talk today.

Especially when I was talking about that Reddit shit earlier.

I don't even know if I was making sense.

I will say,

what was your favorite prep?

My favorite prep.

I think my favorite, well, my favorite prep so far has honestly been this one.

It's been the smoothest prep.

I mean, I'm not done yet or anything, but it has been the most responsive I've ever been.

It's the least amount of cardio I've ever had to do.

It's been a really good prep, and I like emotionally and physically, I just feel really good.

When it comes to like my favorite show and my fondest memory, I would say the 2021 Nationals where I turned pro.

That show just, it was, it was a prep where I was

unhealthily, like I was, I was way too focused on the show and I was obsessed and it put a lot of stress on my relationships.

And, you know, it was like, I was so fucking consumed by it because I, I had a lot of pressure because everyone expected me to win that show.

And it was like, I had never really felt that before.

It was the first time I was like in the limelight.

Like I had competed before, but I was a nobody.

And then I was on, you know, Fuad's podcast with 150,000 people watching and I'm talking about doing this show.

So everybody's like, yeah, he's going to win.

I'm going, oh my God, you know?

And I won, you know, but I was just so obsessed.

And

I'd never worked so hard.

It was so much breath, though, bro.

Yeah, it was.

It was, you know, Jesus Christ.

But

I had never worked so hard in my life, you know, and that was like the best conditioning I ever had.

I mean, everyone,

you know, everyone said I probably had like the best conditioning in the entire show.

Like, I felt really good about my conditioning I brought to that show.

And I, I, I worked really hard for that one.

So to get there, and it was the first time I was ever like peeled, peeled, you know, so like to get peeled and nailed and win and win my pro card, my first show with Matt.

Um, that one just really meant a lot to me.

And I, I, I've fucking I love that show, man.

It's really cool.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Do you feel like there was anything distinctive or special that you feel like worked best for you during that prep or this prep, aside from the gut health?

That prep,

maybe that level, that unhealthy level of obsession, you know,

where like,

I think

I was like kind of out of hand with, with like doing extra cardio.

And I would like go on a hike with my dogs.

I'd be like sprinting the hills.

And like, I just kind of poured everything into it.

And I was just a, I was a fucking maniac that prep.

And I think I needed to be to get to where I got it.

And I haven't really had to do that this year.

I've been able to get a response without being such a maniac.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm still hammering my cardio hard.

I still like, I ride the, I like to ride the bike and I'll hammer out big sprints on the bike.

Like I'm a big proponent of making my cardio difficult.

But, you know, that prep, I really just kind of poured it on the whole time.

Right.

Is there anything that you're trying to do to maintain your leg size for this prep?

Because I know I remember you mentioning before that you feel like you just did the bike a little bit too much where your like legs just flattened out.

Yeah, I definitely felt like I lost my legs.

I did.

I lost my legs at the end of that prep.

And I think a lot of that was from like going super hard, sprinting on the bike and yeah you know doing like those hill sprints that i was talking about doing um for me like so easy you're doing hill sprints that close to shot i you know dude i just like i wanted it so bad you know and i understand there was like a uh point of diminishing return where i i i did too much you know and i i pushed a little too hard and my body kind of ran away from me those last few weeks we couldn't quite keep it up it was like every day i just kept dropping dropping dropping i was feeding up dropping and uh yeah i just kind of pushed a little too hard but you know there's value in that.

Like pushing yourself to that limit.

And it worked out.

I had a good result.

But, you know, understanding where that threshold lies, I think is valuable.

But, you know, right now I will, I'm a little more, like, let's say I'm super flat and we're pushing, we're digging.

Maybe that day I'm not going to like.

do my intermittent sprints.

And maybe my second session of cardio is just going to be walking and I'm going to do the walking pad.

And I will kind of

self,

you know, monitor those things a little bit.

And I communicate with my coach about this stuff.

But, you know, like, you know, when your legs just feel like jello after like four or five days of pushing really hard?

Yeah.

Maybe that's not the best day to just fucking rip it.

You know, maybe you need to pull back a little bit.

And that Nationals prep, I ripped it every day, brother.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm really glad that you're, I'm glad we're having this discussion right now, especially for my own personal situation too.

That hopefully i'll report to the audience like how it goes but like i'm trying to bring i've been trying to bring up my legs for the last two years since i'm competing in classic um and um

uh this is going to be really important for me to like not flan them out with the cardio that i'm doing since they're already they were already a weak point of mine in the past for sure but like you know last prep i was like doing men's music so i like didn't give a fuck man i was going like 160 beats per minute just all the stair master yeah but see that power that's good though because you know how to do that and you can you can rip hard you have to be really objective with yourself.

Because you'll say that to a guy, and I'm like, you know, I don't know if you're the right guy that needs to hear this.

Some people don't need to hear that.

Some people need to hear, hey, dude, I need you to lean into this.

I don't care how you feel.

I need you to fucking keep pushing.

And then there's some guys that are maniacs where I'm like, hey, dude, I know you like to go hard.

Like, I've got some guys that are like, I, dude, I know you can't help yourself, but please, God, today, just don't go so hard.

Like, I need you to pull back on training volume.

I need you to not be a maniac on the cardio machine.

So some people, there's, you know, you either have it or you don't.

And some people just can't flick that switch.

And then some people aren't objective enough to know that

in order to earn that ability to pull back, it's because you push the threshold to the fucking limit.

And if you're not, then it's, then we're not talking to you.

Ignore what we're saying, you know?

Yeah.

How was that peak, by the way, for you when you won your pro card?

Man, we just like,

I was just looking at it the other day, just kind of assessing from that peak to our

Chicago peak.

And I was eating so much more food.

I was like 500 plus grams of rice every single meal and beef and olive oil.

And like, you know, Matt had me eat some like cookies and Chick-fil-A.

Like we, we fucking, we ate a ton of food for that nationals peak.

But that's what happens when you drive like a sufficient hole, when you really put yourself in a position to be fed that way.

When you're really lean and you are really really depleted, you can feed.

Like, sometimes I just can't feed an athlete because, you know, we just didn't quite achieve that.

And some guys, I'm like, hey, man, we've buried you.

Now we get to reverse and we can allow ourselves.

Sometimes you don't have to be aggressive.

You're able to just kind of slowly titrate and build up to that point.

But some guys, you're like, hey, man, we're just going to hammer the shit out of you because you are soaking this up.

And that prep, I was.

It's like, you couldn't have fed me enough food.

And like, it's just a never-ending amount of food.

is damn pretty awesome that is crazy bro 500 grams i'm i'm assuming uncooked 500 grams of every meal of cooked yeah i was cooked yeah oh cooked 500 grams of cooked rice every meal okay so okay that'd be about 140 grams of carbs i guess 150 ish maybe yeah like 100 150 and then you know like yeah that's the big fruit and everything yeah that makes more sense so you know like i probably like eight 800 to a thousand grams of carbs a day you know

yeah to a thousand grams of carbs yeah i don't know why for a second i was assuming like because it would be like closer to like 400 grams of carbs of if it was uncooked rice which means i don't know i probably was assuming you were eating like 2000 grams no dude that's crazy you look fucking big bro you look fucking massive

i wouldn't be surprised um okay let's do some of these uh q a's real quick oh um

you guys didn't have in when when you were feeding a lot you you didn't have to

implement more diuretics than usual, did you?

Or was there any like

implementation at all?

That nationals prep, I did like a quarter of diazide.

I did like an eighth on Thursday, and then I had an eighth on Friday.

Yeah,

I feel like that's kind of typical, kind of standard,

should be,

you know, some people are

some people will get pretty liberal with them, right?

Unless you're like under chat or something,

yeah, probably a lot.

Yeah, I see some pretty, pretty crazy protocols out there.

Uh,

I'll dactone every day for the whole week, then a couple diazide at the end.

It's like fucking hell.

Yeah, it's fucking insane, man.

Yeah.

I mean, you're with Patrick Tor?

I don't even.

Yeah, with Patrick.

Yeah, I know.

He's pretty modest in his approach.

I'm excited to see how it goes.

I have no clue what we're going to shoot for first.

I want him to understand that I tend to be someone that, like,

it's easier for me.

It's easy for me to get watery if I just

it's just easier.

It's just easy for me to get watery if I carb up and shit.

So I don't know why.

I'm one of those like brown, darker skinned, softer, carb-sensitive people.

He's, I mean, that makes sense.

He's, he's the fucking man, dude.

He's a really smart guy.

He's a hardcore, no cheat meal guy.

Does he give you any fun food ever?

No.

No.

Fuck that, dude.

Bro.

Dude.

Bro, I fucking had a, he, you know, he gives me like a protein shake and like little rice cakes and jam and shit like around my workout

for some specific like days.

And like, um, because that's just his thing, the rice cakes and jam.

He loves that shit.

And I do too.

But one of the one of the days, I just, I uh, I mixed my protein powder in way less water so it made it look into like a pudding.

Then I put my huge supplements container so I could take an Instagram story and promote code nile.

And then I put um sometimes instead of the rice cakes, I like the the

rice like it's like a rice cereal, but it's the same thing.

It doesn't have sugar added or anything um and i just sprinkled that on top instead posted the story and he sends a question mark in reply to my story and i'm like bro i swear i'm i'm eating a plan basically oh that's so funny yeah i mean i think i think having some autonomy in in that type of stuff is is important like you know i i work with justin and he's got you know rice laid out but i'll do cream of rice instead of rice and he doesn't give a shit you know and if i feel like having potato like we're at an experience level where like, I can match my carbs with, you know, sweet potatoes if I'm feeling it.

And if I digest sweet potatoes, great.

And it, it's like, what's the difference between, you know, 30 carbs and sweet potatoes or white rice?

Like, I, I, I think having, like I said, some autonomy in that.

And sometimes I'm like, yo, I want something crispy right now.

So I will do rice cakes instead of white rice, you know?

Yeah.

So you can probably hear my Frenchies sitting here snoring between my lips.

I fucking love Frenchies.

I was, I've been having this, uh, I've been having this really intense argument with my girl for like a few months now on

whether or not we're going to get a Frenchie and a pug.

And she's trying to get a pug.

Oh, fuck.

They get a Frenchie, dude.

And they're great bodybuilding dogs because my Frenchie is so, like, he's so lazy.

Like, he'll, he'll go out and have fun and,

you know, go outside and do the damn thing if you want, but he'll also just sit on the couch with you all day when you're in prep and not give a shit.

Just completely chill all day.

That's awesome, bro.

Yeah.

Oh, I love that.

Oh, I can't fucking wait to to get a dog, dude.

I can't.

All right.

Anyways, let's do this.

Let's do these questions.

Also, just for a little disclaimer, Patrick is really like he's probably

you have such an issue like sticking to your

like

your

outline because you'll be like let's start let's do some questions but anyway like i was saying before and then you go back

like i said before yeah definitely some adhd action dude it's the adhesion yeah it's cool i'm this i'm the same way.

And

I like to do callbacks where I'll be like, I'll say something.

And then 20 minutes later, I'm still thinking about it.

So I got to go back to it.

It's probably the reason why my podcast run way too long, anyways.

It's all good, though.

I think it creates an interesting flow of conversation.

It's all good.

I always think that's the best, most organic way.

Like, I don't like it non-podcasts where things feel super structured because it just, I feel like I...

It feels rehearsed, even if it's not, it just can feel less organic.

Yeah.

Right.

I'd rather just have a conversation.

I mean, honestly, part of the reason why I started the podcast in the first place is I just like fucking having conversations with people.

Yeah.

Like I always have.

And then I just wanted to put myself in a place where, you know, I'm uncomfortable public speaking and stuff.

And I just wanted to force myself to do it, you know, for content.

So you do a good job with it, man.

But

thanks, bro.

Joseba Parra asks, what's a valuable life lesson you've learned that you apply to bodybuilding?

Good old Joseba.

What I will say

is that I have

never told myself I couldn't do something.

And I think the reason I've done the things that I've done is because I've put it out there and I've never really doubted myself.

You know,

I remember when I first met my wife, we went on a date and we were just kind of talking and it was like, you know, what are your goals?

I was like, I want to own a gym and I want to own a house on the top of a mountain that looks out over a view.

And I remember saying that.

It was like our first date.

And right now I'm looking at my beautiful view and we own a gym together.

And it was like something that I just put out there.

And I was like,

yeah, like I can,

you know, I never, I never told myself I couldn't do it.

Like I talked about earlier when I was like, no, I'm going to be on the Olympia stage in 2023.

Like, I just, I, I said it, I believed it.

And obviously, none of these things happen without the hard work to back that shit up.

But I think a lot of people doubt themselves.

And

there's one thing I could tell somebody, like, if you actually believe something, speak it and

do the work necessary, but believe in yourself and put it out there.

I think it's really important.

That's fucking awesome, dude.

You're inspiring me right now because that's exactly what that's exactly what my girl and I want to do.

Do it, do it, man.

Yeah, we want to get a dog and we want to fucking smoke weed all the time.

And

yep, I know you don't smoke anymore.

No, no, but a Frenchie was also part of that plan.

So we got our Frenchie as well.

It was just kind of like this picture we painted for a picture we painted for our lives that we

just kind of slowly curated over time

yeah

that's dope um

well i know that it's not part of your life now and i don't think it was ever part of your life i guess when you were bodybuilding but uh what are your thoughts on like weed and bodybuilding together if you have any i for me it just doesn't work like i i

I'm a fucking idiot when I'm smoking weed.

I'm so stupid.

I just, I, I can't talk.

I can't think.

I can't function.

I'm just, I'm a way worse version of myself when I'm high.

And I know, and I don't enjoy it.

But I know a lot of people aren't like that.

I know a lot of people really enjoy it.

Like, you know, Martin Fitzwater, or like I've, you know, I've, I've spent time in, in

Houston with Hunter, where we're at his house, and he's just dabbing relentlessly before we go to the gym.

And then he's just training like a maniac, you know, we're like, we're going to go shoot guns and he's taking dabs before we're shooting guns.

You know, so like some people can just function like that.

Like my, my dad, my brother, they're both super high-functioning stoners.

My dad is a very,

you know, accomplished professional businessman, and he's stoned all the time, you know, and he's just the man.

He's just the fucking man.

And I am so not the man when I'm high.

I just, I'm not, dude.

I lose every bit of what makes me good.

I just turn into like a fumbling, bumbling idiot.

Yeah.

So I think if it works for you, I think that's great.

I know some people say that they get, you know, a little more locked in and can execute the movements and get mind-muscle connection.

I think it's also important to just be objective and say, hey, am I stoned?

And I just feel like that because I'm high.

But also, if you're a guy that like, hey, it helps people sleep.

It can help people with their appetites and can help drive progress, but through more food, I think it has its value.

And obviously.

I own a cannabis dispensary and I see the medicinal value and I bring, you know, I bring a lot of value to a lot of people.

Most of my customers are going to be

just your recreational users want to come and get a joint and go smoke it by the river and that type of stuff.

But I get a lot of people that come in,

you know, elderly people with cancer or with

just any issues and ailments.

And I see a lot of people get a lot of help from it.

So, and I know like my mom got a lot of help from CBD when she was

battling with cancer.

So there's definitely a lot of value to the plant.

But for me, I just

doesn't work.

Yeah.

I'm a big CBD fan.

Yeah.

And I think I'm more like you.

So like 90% of the time that I do smoke weed has to be when work is turned off.

And it's like my, it has to be when I'm just like in my present rest mode.

For sure.

Well,

you already answered this.

Vic Bort asks highest growth dosage he ever used.

I've done eight, but that's

high, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm not going to say, and you know, I'm not going to say that maybe

I won't like

try 10 next offseason and see if that, you know, helps drive progress.

I mean, I'm not, I'm, I'm not like anti-drugs.

I'm not.

Obviously, I'm a pro-open bodybuilder, but that I'm just sharing my experience.

And, and six is kind of always been where I feel best.

I've done eight and not really felt much, so I just don't anticipate 10 feeling better than eight, you know?

So, um, yeah, but you know, I know a lot of guys that will run 10 and like swear by it.

So,

I just can't think of any medication in history where it's like

the highest is always the best.

Yeah, like every medication has its um has its uh like sweet spot for sure, you know, even like someone starting on retatrutide, you know, you don't want to fucking start them on fucking 10 grams of retatrutide or they will literally die.

Jake, Jake Zales, Jake Zalewski says, Dude, let's go ask his position in his brother's cannabis company and his usage.

Well, my usage is nothing.

It's funny.

The last time I really did anything, I got like these CBD gummies.

And I was like, okay, cool.

I said some CBD gummies.

Me and my wife are going to take these.

And I didn't realize they were like,

they weren't quite one-to-ones, but they had a little bit of THC.

I didn't realize it.

But it was like three milligrams of THC.

Oh, dude.

And off the rip off of not smoking anything,

yeah.

So, like, I took these gummies, and this is three, four years ago, and then I'm just like

melting in the couch and shrinking.

They see now, I'm like,

I feel

paranoid and weird, and I look at my wife, and she's feel the exact same thing, she also just doesn't like it.

Um, but that that's like my experience, like three-milligram gummy like smoked me, dude.

And I like hung over the next day, like, I was still high the next day.

I just can't, I just don't have the tolerance.

Um, but that's hilarious as far far as kind of like my role, obviously I'm the owner.

In the very beginning, like, you know, my brother and I bought a bare piece of land, we bought 15 acres, and it had no water, no building, no nothing, no driveway.

You know, we put a fence in, we put a driveway in, we installed a well, we, you know, we...

put down a 5,000 square foot shop.

You know, my brother and I completely hand-built all of our water line around the entire property.

We dug a 2 million gallon pond.

We did a lot of infrastructure where I was boots on the ground and doing all the labor ourselves in the early days.

I just, I didn't have any money.

So we were just doing it ourselves.

You know, I was a guy who was working full-time painting homes with my dad.

That's what we did for a living.

And then my brother and I would get off of work at like 4 or 5 p.m.

We would go to the farm, hand water our fucking plants.

A lot of times with like the, I remember pulling up and having the headlights of my car lighting up the field so I could hand water my plants.

And then we would leave, we'd go to the gym where there was an anytime fitness that we went to, and it'd be trained at like 11:30 at night till like one in the morning.

And there was a 24-hour subway next door.

We'd go to Subway, we would get Subway sandwiches and go to bed and start it all over again.

That was like my life for years where I just worked full-time construction and then growing weed on the side and then still going to the gym because we were just just like we just liked training you know that I wasn't like a bodybuilder but I just it was just part of my routine so even after all that that long day you know we training legs at one in the morning and then being you know up at 6 a.m.

the next day to go to work you know those were those cool times man it was you know I don't know that I could do it now

you know I mean I'm sure I could but you know now I've been able to kind of take a step back I've got you know employees and management and I'm able to delegate I think that the most important part of being a businessman is being able to communicate and delegate and have people to do this work and facilitate it for you.

And, you know, because honestly, I can't be the guy that's running my farm and running my dispensary and running my gym and doing my coaching and creating all my content for YouTube and keeping up on my Instagram and, you know, doing all the things that a husband does.

And, you know, just it's a lot, you know.

So you need to learn how to delegate.

And one thing I will say is like, there's no place for ego in business i used to have this ah nobody can do it but me like you know is you know i would like you know take the hose out of someone's hand like i'll do it

you need to invest in your people you need to allow people the opportunity to do these things and you need to build trust and build confidence in your employees to where you can walk away and they they got it because you haven't been babysitting the whole time, you know, and there's, it can be a bumpy road and people are human.

And, you know, with those steps back come issues that you, you know, maybe not have happened if you were there all the time.

But that's, that's, uh, those are kind of the labor pains of, of growth and building multiple businesses.

Gotcha.

Sounds like a personal attack.

Yeah.

Fucking eight years later, I'm still editing my own damn YouTube videos.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that, that's,

that's, that's something that I,

I definitely had to, to work on was

that, you know, no one can do it but me mindset.

Yeah, yeah.

I definitely need to work on that a lot.

You get pretty shredded, though, doing construction.

Oh, I mean, definitely, you know, lots of fucking steps.

You know, my, my, like, working in the field at my farm.

Um,

yeah, you get some, a lot of movement in during the day, for sure.

Yeah, I bet.

If I go to Raves, it gets me shredded.

Yeah, there you go, dude.

It's very handy.

Molly and fucking fist bumping.

Gets you peeled.

No, I didn't say it.

Pastor Patthew asks,

could you get competition lien on burgers?

93.7 beef.

Double, triple patty for the deficit.

Man, that just sounds like you're really trying to avoid

just adhering to a reasonable diet.

You know, when it comes to like whether or not you can eat, I mean, I just, I don't think it's a good idea to eat nothing but beef your entire prep.

I think you're probably going to need to have some lower fat options because beef is just going to have higher calories.

And you're talking about burger buns.

And when you're talking about getting really low food and,

you know, low body fat, a burger bun is not terribly satiating.

So, you're probably going to be hungrier eating 40 grams of carbs from like this fluffy bun than you would if you were to eat 40 grams of carbs from potatoes or white rice or oatmeal.

It's just not practical.

This is definitely coming from somebody who's never done this before.

So, just lose the idea that

could you do it?

Maybe.

Should you?

Don't be a dumbass.

That's what I'll say.

Yeah.

But once a week, that's fine.

As long as you count into your plan, you're your shit's cut now.

I think it's mine, to be honest.

I think I have the bad Wi-Fi here, but I just lost you.

Oh, you have?

It's been cutting out like every five to ten minutes for the last like two hours.

But it's that sucks.

Honestly, I watch my on my end.

It like looks perfect, looks flawless.

Of course.

It's probably the recording is probably going to be perfectly fine.

I mean, that's Riverside's dope like that.

It's actually just recording what it's seeing, not the glitches.

Sorry, I don't mean to call that guy a dumbass.

That's not fair.

I just think

it's just not practical and it's not ideal.

And I think you get to a certain point where you're better off eating something a little more satiating, something with a little more fiber, like I said, oatmeal or potatoes for volume.

And then you're probably going to need to get some lean proteins in there that are going to help you drive a deficit more than 93.7 beef.

Yeah, yeah.

In all seriousness, yeah, I totally agree.

You definitely could implement like 97.3 beef every now and then or or something, but

having a variety of meats and then making sure that you're just meeting your deficit needs or

probably all you need.

Andy Tequila Light asks, how is his wife so strong?

It's not normal, LOL.

She's definitely strong.

She's, you know, got a powerlifting background.

You know, when I met her, that's what she was doing is powerlifting.

So

big strength background, but she's just, she's just a stout, sturdy broad, man.

She's tough.

That's awesome.

That's so dope.

My girl's like, she probably weighs like, she probably lifts and weighs like a tenth of the weight that I do.

Yeah.

No, my, my wife will, she deadlifted 405 the other day.

And, you know, she'll like we're doing the leg press together, and I have eight plates aside, and she did seven and a half.

That's like, fuck.

Wow, that's insane.

Yeah.

Granted, I did, I did extensions first, so I was a little pre-fatigued, but still, that's ridiculous.

Yeah.

It's a little

emasculating.

Klugs asks, what are the main movements that you do to get those massive arms?

Genetics, dude.

I don't really train my arms that much.

I do train them.

And I'm not going to say that I don't train them, but I've just always had bigger arms.

I literally don't train my calves at all.

And I have great calves.

So

I'm the wrong person to ask for this.

But I will say I train them intelligently.

I train them hard.

I just don't have to give them the energy that someone would have to who doesn't have the genetic propensity for arm growth that I do.

You know, it just kind of is what it is.

What volume do you have for the arms?

So I, to be honest,

I hate training arms.

It's just so boring to me.

So I do like a chest and shoulders on Tuesday where I do one bicep movement, one tricep.

And then I do chest and shoulders on Saturday where I do a bicep and a tricep.

So I just kind of touch them once here and touch them once there.

That That way, like weekly, weekly volume is like seven sets for biceps and triceps, something like that.

So many sets.

Yeah.

What about when you first started like blowing up and everything?

Was was the program about the same?

No, it was different.

Yeah, I used to have an arm day.

So I used to,

I used to every Friday or Saturday or something for years, I would just bang arms.

So there's, I think there's some value in it.

I think that's how I built my arms.

But I've always just had better arms and I just don't have to give them, you know, like I really need to bring up my back and my legs so just for me to hammer a lot of arm volume or volume on body parts that I don't need to improve that much just doesn't make sense So it's it's tough because you want to give someone the answer on how to grow their arm But it's like it it's just not applicable for what I'm doing is not gonna be applicable for you because

Just don't I don't need it.

Yeah, I think what you said though is I think what you said, though, is decently applicable because I think there's a lot of merit to be said and a lot of importance to be put in into order of importance when you're doing your workout.

So if you're doing an arm day and you're starting off with triceps and biceps, I think there's going to be a lot of growth that comes from that, in my opinion.

Yeah.

And I also, I'm a big proponent of frequency.

I think that

that weekly volume split in half across two days is actually going to yield a better result than if you were to do that whole volume on one day.

And, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's my personal feelings.

I think that that novel stimulus twice a week opposed to just all that volume once a week, I think is better.

How is your training structure right now?

Is it do you try to prioritize on having like a frequency of at least two times per week for all your groups?

Yeah, so I train everything twice a week.

Monday, I do back and legs.

It's like a back and hamstring day where I do a leg press for quads.

Tuesday, I do

chest, shoulders, arms.

Wednesday, I take off.

Thursday, I do a full leg day.

So I'm training quads and hamstrings again.

Friday, I train back, full back day again.

And then Saturday, I do chest, shoulders, and arms again.

Nice.

So, yeah, it's everything twice a week.

Yeah.

You train six days a week?

No, no.

I train

five.

Yeah, so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

So it's Sunday off.

Gotcha.

Sorry, there's just so many fucking questions, bro.

You got so many questions.

I'm just trying to do that.

That's dope.

That's cool, man.

I'm glad to hear that.

Sometimes I feel like nobody cares.

I feel like that all the time.

Yeah, for sure.

I get it.

Josh Lebanon asks, what is something you wish you started doing sooner in your bodybuilding journey?

I think just training a little more intentional and precise.

I think, you know, we talked about how I was, you know, doing a lot of super sets and.

you know, not not prioritizing, not logging my training, not being, you know, as intentional as I should have been,

being progressive with food, I, I, it was just

things I could have been doing sooner that would have helped me.

But to be honest, I'm, I, I'm happy with where I'm at.

So I'm not, I don't have any like injuries that I did anything foolish in the past that caused or health issues.

I was lucky enough to start a bodybuilding journey being very health conscious and

had good guidance training, you know, so I don't, I don't really have any regrets or anything.

Um, but yeah, I would have maybe just been a little more.

And I hate to say this because I think that the training culture and the science guys and the optimal, the word optimal just drives me banana.

So I don't even want to say it, but I wish I would have just been maybe a little more optimal.

I hate how it's like that.

I know, I know.

It sucks because they're just putting,

they're shining a bad light on something that's actually really good and should be a topic of conversation.

But it's just,

it's so blown out of proportion.

And there's so many guys putting out bad info.

And to be honest, they these a lot of these guys know they're putting out shitty info they just it's just rage bait they want you to comment they post stupid fucking shit on purpose to try to get a lot of conversation going and have people you know make stitch responses it's it's unfortunate it's intentional and it's like i'm gonna put out this really really bad information because so many creators are going to make videos about me and tell me how stupid I am and I'm gonna have 900 comments on this one post.

So that, but then there's a lot of people since that content's circulating so heavily that they're believing this stuff.

I'm like, dude, the guy that made that video doesn't even believe it, man.

Trust me.

You know, he, he, this is a 110-pound kid who's making fun of Hani Ramba.

You know, like, you don't listen to him.

This guy is making fun of fucking Phil Heath, dude.

Just stop, you know?

Yeah.

You know, this is, it's, it's tough.

But yeah, I would have been a little more intentional with my training and, and

I would have paid attention to,

you you know whether or not I was being progressive I would have logged my training a little sooner

cool

this is kind of a follow-up of because you mentioned a regret um a follow-up and his question was uh what is your biggest regret in developing your physique if you have any I don't know I don't really have one calves isn't it it's the it's the calves I should have been hammering these fucking things

you know I think that I did like a

and there's nothing wrong with this.

I did a bro split for a long time where I wasn't training with the frequency and I was just like nailing every body part and not like my legs needed to come up, but I wasn't training them twice a week.

I should have been training them twice a week.

My back was sucked and I would just train it once a week and I didn't even think about it.

I should have been training it twice a week.

So those things like in hindsight, I would have been a little more.

There's a lot of guys that don't need to worry about that stuff where specificity doesn't matter and you just need everything to grow.

But I ignored that for too long to where I had 22-inch arms and no back,

you know, so I would have been addressing the weak points a little sooner.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

How much volume would you say that you had on those back days?

Like how much volume for back specifically?

Do you remember how many sets?

Man, I don't remember.

I wasn't paying any attention at that time.

I just, I didn't even have a clue.

I didn't, it was just nothing even crossed my mind.

If somebody asked how many sets I sent, I don't fucking know.

I would just keep going if it felt good.

And I would do a drop set here and a super set there and, you know, an extra movement here.

Like, it just, you know, there's just no rhyme or reason.

And that's kind of what I'm referring to.

I would have, I would have structured things a lot, a lot better.

Do you feel like there's any, this is one of the questions actually that I wanted to ask.

I'm trying to find this guy's question, but he was asking like, what do you prefer, like or what do you think is better like drop sets or rest pause sets or etc

i'm trying to find it

i mean i think

i i like both as far as like um

set extenders like intensifiers i think it just kind of depends on the movement there's there's some stuff where i i i really appreciate a rest pause set for the continued load exposure like something heavy like a chest press where like, you know, I'm going to hit that 315 on incline and those failure reps, I'm going to do that three different times.

And that, you know, that load exposure on those big, you know, muscles, big body parts, I think it carries a ton of value.

Where if I'm talking about like a lateral raise or a bicep curl, I would probably prefer.

the drop set to just to prioritize a little more blood flow instead of load exposure.

Like you can still take those sets to failure, those subsequent sets to failure and still drive this, a similar stimulus.

But I think that when you're talking about like a bicep curl or tricep extensions, you need to be thinking about tendon strength and maybe repeating those top end loads over and over isn't the best thing for your joints.

So something like,

you know,

arm movements or lateral raises just might be a little more conducive to do something like a drop set to drive that extra volume in a set.

Gotcha.

I love the specific specificity that you always mention whenever you're talking about training and stuff, because

I think those are things that I just wish I said, literally, I wish I exactly said, like about like the lateral raise versus like doing your hack squad.

There is like, I do the exact same thing where I'll end up doing partials at the end of my lateral raise to

get as much out of it as I can.

And I think it's, it's, it's almost like in those lateral raises, you just, that's, that's, that's how you can reach that failure point properly.

Cause at a certain point, otherwise you start engaging things like your trap, it's your traps and shit, versus like in a hack squat, you can kind of focus on your quads and your glutes the entire time until at some point it's just like, I can't do the next rep.

Definitely.

And honestly, how much, how much fatigue are you going to incur on a lateral raise?

Like it's, it's a super low impact, you know, low CNS.

Like you can hammer four sets in a row where you did 10 partials and then walk away just fine and continue to go do a press.

Dude, you do do that on a deadlift or a hack squat or a leg press and you go and extend your set like that.

You're going to be dealing with some actual issues.

So it's just not smart.

So I don't think the blanket, you know, RIR is

the best approach.

I think that while I might train RIR here, I might blast failure and

five four straps with my training partner who's going to help me get nice full range of motion on the last five lateral raises, and then I'll do a few partials, which is going to look completely different than what I just did on the hack swat.

You know, I might, you know, save one rep and reserve there.

So I don't, I don't, I don't take a one-size-fits-all approach when it comes to that type of stuff at all.

Trevor, we ask,

do you still think that, do you still think the gear was fake for the Chicago prep after the Janssen fallout?

Yeah, it wasn't about

fake gear.

I mean,

you know, this has nothing to do with Matt.

I was not not getting a response from the gear I was taking, and I switched gear and I got a response.

This has nothing to do with Matt.

But what was happening was I was having a bad response to the gear where I was holding a ton of water.

And, and I think, to be honest, AIs, and this is reflecting my blood work, my AIs were not legitimate.

So when I actually switched to legitimate Rimidex, yeah, my E2 lowered, I dropped water and I, and my physique reflected that.

So there was no, no question whether or not it was fake gear.

It just, I, I had, I had legitimately bunk, you know, ancillaries and, and I felt the Clen, I was not getting a response.

You ever take 80 micrograms of Clen and just don't feel anything?

You know, I was taking 80 micrograms and I didn't feel anything.

Then I got pharmaceutical grade Clenn and I took 80 micrograms and I thought I was gonna have a fucking heart attack.

So I mean, like, yes, these things were not legitimate.

And it, and it greatly impacted my look, my, my prep, everything.

So yeah, the Jansen,

yeah, it had nothing to do with math.

It's just, I just had bogus gear.

That's cool.

That's crazy, though, that

I never even thought about like someone having bunker rhymeds or bunker AIs.

Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a thing.

And it's, you know, I always like to make sure,

like my clients, I just need you to make sure your T3, your Clenn, your AIs, these type of things that can actually.

drastically impact the look or the fat loss trajectory, like these things that we're leaning into.

Obviously, diet's always going to be the main driver, but these things can be a huge assistance

in our preps.

And I need to make sure this is legitimate because if we're not getting the response, and you know, I was, I was taking mass prop trenase

and,

you know, a test prope and I was like, watery.

And taking windstorms, like, watery.

So when I switched all those oils, I'm like, you should not be like, I looked, it looked like I was taking Deca and Anadrol.

that's what it looked like that's what my physique looked like yeah so like when i switched sources i flushed a ton of water got way harder got drier and it actually looked like i was taking the you know pharmaceuticals that i was actually supposed to be taking so

uh g built asks which improvements made the most improvements on your back density which movement made the most improvements I don't know of any movement in particular.

I will say that I've always prioritized like a hinging movement.

A lot of people will like poo-poo a deadlift or like a bent over row, but I think that you should

always have one movement where you are fully pitched over the weight, your spine is taking the brunt of the load, you're not chest supported, you're not bracing with your hand, your back is taking all of the load, and you are rowing or hinging or deadlifting.

I think that's super important.

So I deadlift on Mondays on my

back and hamstring day, and then I will always do some form of hinging row, whether it's like a T-bar or a Smith machine row or a bent over a double dumbbell row, something that I'm not braced and I'm just completely pitched over parallel with the floor rowing.

I totally agree with that, even though I haven't always implemented it.

Yeah, I think it, I think it, it, it translates, you know, and you got you want nice, thick erectors.

Well, challenge those fucking things, and it's not going to happen sitting on a chest support T-bar or your favorite pull-down machine.

25 Liam asks,

Jesus Christ, what is Bros' bicep measurements?

I don't really know.

I mean, I've measured in the offseason and been, you know, seen 22 inches.

To be honest, I don't think my arms are that big.

I just have small joints.

I have small elbows, small wrists.

No, I'm serious.

And

I have great insertions, and they're bubbly and round.

Like,

let's see.

It's like not that crazy big.

It's It's just like really round and my elbows are small.

So don't get me wrong.

Like I said, I have measured and had them like 22 inches in the offseason.

They're probably 21 and some change right now, maybe 21 right now, which is a big arm, don't get me wrong.

But like Nick Walker's arms are 24.

Like, you know, Crizzo's arms are 24.

Hunter Labrada has like 23 and some change.

So like in comparison to some of the open guys where where people might think we have the same size arm, we don't.

I have it's illusions because I have small wrists and small elbows and nice insertions and round muscle bellies.

It's okay to have bigger exia, bro.

I understand.

I'm the same way.

Yeah, my dick's tiny too.

That's crazy.

I don't want to show you.

Me meditate with Dane asks.

What is one thing that you would change about this first Mr.

Olympia experience?

About your first Mr.

Olympia experience?

I would have got there in time.

That first Mr.

Oh, I felt like that was my best look the year.

I was definitely better than Chicago.

I was in better conditioning.

The peak was way better.

I was in my hotel room.

So we did the athletes meeting.

And

they were like, you know, hey, the year before they got roasted because, you know, athletes sat backstage for hours and everyone was pissed.

And, you know,

the internet attacked the Olympia.

So they're like, listen, guys, you know, we're probably probably going to go on stage, like be there by 9.30.

And honestly, there might be, still be a wait, like just, you know, forewarning you guys.

So 8.45 rolls around, 8.50, and I'm eating some food.

Matt had me get

Chick-fil-A,

had me get some Chick-fil-A fries.

So I'm eating some fries at like 8.45.

My phone rings, and I'm at my hotel.

And it's one of the expertisers and she says, where are you at?

We are starting.

I said,

the fuck, dude you guys said like 9 30 and you said i was still gonna wait they said i don't care we said you gotta get here get here now holy shit i said what the fuck and i'm eating french fries i said fuck

so like matt i i called matt because i was gonna uber and matt's like take my escalade fucking get here as soon as possible i you know got his keys and i'm driving his fucking huge escalade i'm blazing i'm going as fucking fast i can i'm driving like a maniac sorry matt i was just i had to get there so i rip into the fucking parking lot and I'm stressed out, dude.

I'm like, they're starting without me.

And I'm parking.

They're like,

you know, whose car is this?

It's like, what room number?

I said, I don't fucking know the room number.

Take the key.

Fucking, this is where Matt was standing.

Like, he's staying, just take the fucking key, valet, just fuck off.

And I hand him the keys and I run.

And I'm running through the expo hall and I'm like full-fledged, like booking it.

I'm, I'm fucking sprinting.

It's November in

Florida.

I'm wearing a hoodie and sweatpants and I'm booking it and I get backstage and they're like, get glazed, get pumped now.

I'm like, fuck, you know, and I'm super stressed out.

And

I immediately strip off my hoodie and I start pumping up.

And I'm just like panic pumping.

I'm just like, fucking lateral raises, curls, fucking presses.

I'm just going nuts.

And they start glazing me and I'm pumping.

And then I'm like sweating and I'm like fucking panicking.

And the fucking fries I just had are sitting weird in my stomach.

I go, what the fuck?

This is a fucking disaster, dude.

This is a fucking disaster.

And Matt comes back.

He's like, calm the fuck down, dude.

Chill.

They rush us backstage.

I get backstage.

And I'm like, fuck.

I'm like kind of sweating and glazed and got a shitty pump and I'm just stressed and my mind's fucked.

It's my first Olympic.

You go, God damn it.

And then I sit backstage for a fucking hour before I go on stage.

Like, what?

Oh, what the fuck?

Yeah, I'm like, so I'm like back there for like 45 minutes.

And like during that time, I pump up like three times.

And then by the time I got to stage, I was like shit, dude.

Like, not to make excuses, but like

my showing was just bad.

I just looked bad.

And like, I had this film over my stomach.

I was like bloated from the fries.

I could just see the stress on my body.

It was just like not good.

So

I would get backstage and just be there ready.

And that's what I did the next night.

I got there like two hours early and just like laid down backstage, ate some food, chilled.

I looked way better the next night.

Didn't matter.

I was already in 15th place.

They already didn't give a shit about me.

I totally blew it and it is what it is.

I'm not, you know, I'm not convinced I would have done a whole lot better.

I think there's some guys I could have beat if I would have just been, you know,

managed that a little bit better.

But yeah, that was a fucking disaster.

It really sucked.

So I kind of blame them and blame myself at the same time.

No, I get that.

I would blame them too.

Anyways,

they have a good

they have a they have a good little like

streak of being able to sometimes

scare the shit out of you an hour before you get up.

I wish I would have,

it's not the Federation's fault.

Yeah, I wish I would have just had a cooler head

and known like, okay, 212 awards are still going on.

Like, I'm fine.

I actually have the time.

But I just, I wasn't thinking like that.

And like, they were rushing me back.

And yeah, I can't, I allowed the stress to get the best of me.

And, um,

I, I think, well, first, it always just depends on the person who's actually like putting people in order, in my opinion.

And then, two, um, there's a lot of people that say that, uh,

like,

you know, if you did the prep well enough and then you got shredded enough, then you're ready.

And I just like totally disagree with that because

people really understate just how important it is to

walk on that stage and take the last few days stress-free or as big-free as you possibly can.

Yeah, it makes a profound difference.

That stress can

make your physique, make or break your physique for sure.

And the posing too, too.

Just like it's like just how smooth you are on stage versus like if you're shaking and if you like trip over yourself and all these things, which always, always happen if you're just not prepared.

You know, you're not just like sitting there in this parasympathetic state taking deep breaths it it just ruins the look yeah it ruins the performance it ruins all of it i'm always like hesitant to bring that up because i i don't ever want to feel like i'm making excuses for you know a bad showing but it's just that's just that's what happened and and i definitely i know it affected things um but yeah

coming into

this year, you know, God willing, I'm doing the Olympia again, I'll, I'll be able to manage that a lot better.

And, you know, we talked about this before where you're like, how do you ever, how do you manage these experiences without having something like that happen?

Like, it's like a blessing to have that happen and realize that next time, you're like, now you understand the repercussions of

one, being late, but two, just how, you know, poorly your body can respond to stress.

And yeah, so.

All right.

Last Q ⁇ A, because I know you're hungry and I fucking kept you long enough, but I'm starving.

You can tell,

you don't have to answer this, but Ikatel asked what happened with you and Brochette.

You know,

I don't know, man.

I mean, I do know.

Obviously, I

was really close friends with Fuad.

I love the guy.

I still love the guy.

Like, I still consider him a friend of mine.

And

that relationship meant a lot to me.

But, you know, he found me before I was a pro.

And, you know, he took me under his wing.

And he was honestly like a mentor to me.

And he helped me a lot and gave me a ton of exposure through his his platform and you know we traveled together and we were brothers man i like i really i miss those times they're good times

and i think when i left it just uh felt like a betrayal to him and i totally understand that

and it's i i regret that it went down that way um

and i i've i've tried I've tried really hard to kind of mend it.

And if anybody knows Fuadi's, he's a pretty hard-headed guy, you know, and, and, uh, I think I heard his, I think I heard him and I upset him.

And I, I don't think he, uh,

I just, it doesn't seem like he has any interest in, in kind of mending things.

And it's a shame because I, I, like I said, I still consider the guy a friend.

And, um,

you know, the, the business side of things, like when I was with Hostile, you know, I'm a super busy guy.

Like, you know, it was hard to lock me down.

It was like the same, it was like the same thing like filming YouTube content.

He was always had to be on top of me.

I'm like, oh man, business stuff, you know, and like, I'm too busy.

And he was, you know, kind of getting on top of me because I wasn't always able to perform exactly what he required of me.

And I remember at the time, I was like, you know, I feel like if I was able to be with a different company, like maybe this would actually improve our friendship.

Because it felt like sometimes the

stress of the obligations and the commitment to hostile

was like a hindrance on our relationship.

So there was a part of me that thought maybe if we, if we, you know, I went a different direction, that our friendship would be better and there wouldn't be that, that strain from like a business perspective.

You know, it just, it didn't go that way.

And I'll also be honest, I think, you know, I haven't really heard anything.

He hasn't really told me.

I don't, I don't really know.

But,

you know, when we,

when I parted ways, I was in contest prep.

I think I was like eight weeks out or something.

And the internet went fucking nuts.

You know, like there are so many videos made and like the comment sections were fucking crazy and i know that i i you know was responsive during that time and like you're in a contest prep and you maybe i probably said some shitty things that i shouldn't have said like i i know that um i may not have handled myself the best during that time um again this isn't anything that food's told me i mean i'm just kind of guessing as to you know what

what really was like the draw the line in the sand moment for him.

You know, maybe,

I wish I had the opportunity to talk to him.

Maybe I said, said something that crossed the line.

And if so, I would love the opportunity to kind of address that and apologize, but I just, I just don't know.

But I massively appreciate Fuad for everything he did for me.

I love the guy.

I still consider him a friend of mine.

I care for him a lot.

I'm really happy to see his company doing so well.

I wish him nothing but the best.

And, you know, obviously, I hope someday we can kind of mend that relationship because

it's my friend and I miss him.

You know, that's kind of the long and the short of it.

And I

hope his recovery is going well, you know,

it's really scary thing that happened to him.

Yeah.

But yeah, I don't know what else I can say about that.

But,

yeah.

No, I think that was very well said, man.

Very.

I ask one last question at the end of every podcast for the guests.

But if you were to disappear from the world tomorrow and you had one message you could send to the entire world today, what would the message be?

Oh, you son of a bitch.

That's a big one.

It's a profound.

Ah, man.

Sounds stupid, but just

do what you love, man.

It's really important.

I think that committing and going all in on something that makes you happy is the, there's nothing more rewarding than that.

And I don't think enough people take those chances.

And a lot of people,

you know, put themselves into positions where,

whether it's outside influences or, you know, what people might think and/or obligations, which can be really, really tough and detracting,

find a way.

Do what you love.

Yeah, that was stupid, bro.

That was awesome.

Thanks, man.

No, that's a, that's, um,

uh, it's, it's, even though, even though it's been said before, it's super understated, man.

Otherwise, like, I just, I feel like there's such a lack of purpose and such a lack of like, like, desire to keep going.

Life's, life's too short to just do stuff that you hate.

And,

and, uh, just, there's so much value and just like going all in and committing to just what you truly love.

Um, obviously, maybe, maybe it's a little bit easier for me to say that because I'm in a position where I make a good living off of what I love.

It didn't come easy.

It wasn't like a mistake.

Like I worked hard and I earned it.

Like I said, I worked two jobs and started businesses and built a good foundation.

And then I was able to commit to bodybuilding and now I'm able to make a living off of it.

So I'm in a position now where I can say these things.

And not everybody is and it may not feel like they can get there, but it's a long long road.

But if you really love something and you want to do that, find a way to make it happen because it's just, there's, you know, nothing like it.

Awesome.

Thanks for that, bro.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Where could everybody find you?

Find me on Instagram, Justin Shire, Justin underscore Shire, YouTube.

I haven't posted on TikTok in a long time, but I'm on there as well.

But Instagram is really

my main place.

Cool.

What about your coaching?

How can people find you if they're interested?

Yeah, Yeah, you can go to my Instagram.

I have a coaching form on my Instagram bio.

You know, I have a lot going on.

So, like, the coaching thing is probably the smallest aspect of what I do as far as my business goes.

But I just generally love helping people.

So

you can, you know, apply there or just send me a message in my DMs and we can chat.

And yeah, I'd love to help.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on, bro, again.

Of course, man.

This was really dope.

Yeah, it's fun.

Sorry for keeping you for so long, gun.

Don't worry about it, bro.

Now, now I actually get to jam like a few meals back to back

and

eat a little more frequently.

So I'm all good.

Sick, bro.

Cool.

All right, man.

Well, thank you, dude.

I appreciate it.

And

yeah, sorry again, it took so long to make this happen, but I'm glad we did it.

No, I am too, man.

I am too.

And I know the audience is going to love it a lot.

Cool.

Right on, brother.

All right.

All right, man.

Peace.