Dr. Trevor Kouritzin: How To Survive Bodybuilding Way Past Your 40’s

Trevor Kuritson, a former chemical engineer who has a doctorate in medicine.

Trevor is a former natural professional bodybuilder, as well as once the host of his own podcast, Evolutionary Radio.

Thanks for coming on the podcast.

I'm sure that you're extremely busy now, especially that you got your doctorate.

And congratulations, by the way.

Yeah, I hosted a podcast myself many years ago.

I know how, lack of a better word, pain in the ass it is to get guests.

I can sympathize with you, especially especially with time zones.

It's like,

oh man, yeah, it's not being a podcaster is not an easy job if you've got regular guests on your show.

Yeah, um, it was especially difficult when I was trying to stick to only in-person podcasts.

Honestly, it was kind of insane at that time.

Um,

and it's weird because, like, I've been in bodybuilding and also like creating content as a content creator for so long.

And I think finding guests in person was probably the biggest stressor I think I've ever encountered in the weirdest way.

But I think that goes along with just the fact that you and I obviously just really cared a lot about the content we created also.

So, I mean, that's obviously.

Well, I've been

in the bodybuilding scene for almost two decades now.

So when I started, I was like, that was like the Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler days, which.

you know, everyone thinks when they were in bodybuilding was kind of like the heyday, but like personally, I think that was kind of like the peak of bodybuilding.

And that's what I really wanted to do, right?

Like, if you asked me when I was 18 what I wanted to do, it would have never been grad school or engineering.

It would have been be a professional bodybuilder.

That's what I really wanted to do.

I really wanted to be the next Jay Cutler.

But my dad, being a professor at the university, was like, that's stupid.

You're going to end up as a personal trainer at a gym making 20 bucks an hour.

You need an education.

Do engineering.

So I didn't really want to, but I did engineering as my dad's advice.

I did chemical engineering.

So I think you're a mechanical engineer, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I went through the exact same experience as you.

Yeah, so I picked chemical because I figured at least this way I could learn about like molecules, hormones.

Like, you know, for me, I was like, at least this is kind of like the most applicable to bodybuilding.

So I did that.

And while I was doing my engineering degree, it quickly kind of dawned on me that I'm training 10 times harder than everyone else, but I look pretty average.

Whereas I'm working 10 times less hard than everyone else in engineering, but I've got the best marks.

So it was kind of one of those things like you kind of got to deal the hands that you're dealt.

Like as much as I wanted to be a bodybuilder, I just didn't really have the genetics, if I'm being honest, right?

Like, especially being 6'2, right?

Like, it's pretty hard to be a good bodybuilder at 6'2.

Yeah, for sure.

The limbs are so long, especially me.

Like, I've got long arms, I've got long legs.

Yeah.

So I kind of have potential, but also in turn for a lot of more difficult processes, like calories in the first place.

Yeah, so I kind of like on,

sorry, I was just getting a phone call.

I was kind of like, fell into the whole university thing, like, oh, chance, right?

Like, that was never really the goal.

But I did engineering and then, you know, kind of was like, I don't want to be an engineer.

I don't really know what I want to do here.

So then I decided to do grad school.

That's when I first did nutrition and then I did medicine.

And in grad school, I learned like quite a bit, honestly.

And I kind of think that

I understand now why there's a lot of doctors who don't really believe in supplements or

kind of

won't even like acknowledge supplements because a lot of the studies on supplements aren't properly interpreted and supplements also I don't think are properly explained on how they fit into medicine.

So, do you know, like, the levels of medicine?

I honestly didn't before I went into medicine.

Most, most people don't for whatever reason.

It's not very well.

So, you know, like, you know, in Shrek, how Shrek says ogres have layers?

Yeah.

Medicine also has layers.

So primary medicine is reactionary medicine.

So that's like a surgeon, you know, doing like a triple bypass on someone who's having a heart attack, right?

Secondary medicine is screening.

That would be like your general practitioner screening for the risk of diseases, you know, through blood work and things like that.

And then tertiary medicine is prevention.

Now, supplements aren't going to do anything for primary medicine, right?

If someone's having a heart attack, even though this magnesium is not going to help them, right?

Like they're too far gone.

But in tertiary medicine, it does have a role.

Could supplements and lifestyle have prevented that heart attack 20 years ago?

I would argue in a lot of cases, yes, right?

So I think that's why, like, a lot of supplements are really misunderstood by the medical community, is because they don't have an application in primary or secondary medicine, but they do in tertiary medicine.

And for whatever reason, our entire medical system is focused on primary and secondary.

There's very little talk about prevention, right?

Like...

For me, like, it doesn't really make sense that there's so little education on nutrition, exercise, exercise, mental health.

Like you get a little bit in high school, but like you're not really taught like what is healthy eating, how to meal prep, how to cook, how to

exercise.

It all seems very backwards to me.

And that's kind of why I think like

a lot of people don't fully understand how supplements play a role in the medical system.

Is that kind of, does that, was that your, is that kind of your experience too?

Yeah, for sure it is.

Well, I think

I feel like you've mentioned this before as well on another podcast, but I think it was the concept that like while you were studying for your doctorate, you were interested in all these things regarding bodybuilding.

But

a lot of doctors in the field kind of

the their purpose lies in like, how can I save these lives or how can I like

essentially, but, but, but when you discuss it in the realm of bodybuilding

at a surface level, it just kind of looks like, how can I get these 22 inch biceps?

Yeah, so that's kind of like the hard sell is like a lot of sports nutrition supplements also have a therapeutic application, but they're not really marketed that way.

So a product that could help get a guy 20 inch arms could also prevent sarcopenia in an older adult.

Yeah.

Right.

But that's, that's not the story being told by supplement companies.

It's, you know, increase muscle growth, increase reps on your bench press, increase, you know, your squat one rep max.

A lot of doctors, like, who cares?

Right.

Like, like,

some guy getting 22-inch biceps, I've got much more important things to worry about.

But if you then converted that conversation to, hey, this could prevent sarcopenia, this could prevent

frail in older adults, you know, this could improve functionality in older adults, the The doctor may go, wow, I'm listening.

Part of that is like marketing, right?

Is like the number one consumer for supplements currently is, you know, mostly athletes or fitness-interested people.

But the market is actually changing, and you're starting to see a lot more people who, you know, don't fit the fitness demographic buying supplements.

And that's why you start to see now at your grocery store protein powders, protein bars, even creatine now.

Like even creatine,

a lot of people people who don't lift weights are taking it because they're starting to realize there's a lot of benefits outside of just muscle strength and muscle growth and muscle recovery.

But yeah, I know,

you're 100% right.

It's like a lot of these compounds or supplements or whatever you want to call them, they're not really marketed in a way that would interest the medical community or spoke about in a way that would interest the medical community.

Right.

I guess since then, or in the last several years since you've gotten your PhD,

how has your focus changed?

Because I know now you're researching to how,

I guess, basically the conversion in dosages from animal models to humans?

No, no, no.

That was just like

an offline thing I was saying.

I see a lot of people make that mistake.

I guess like I've really learned about how to read studies and design studies.

And I think that's another problem is that a lot of terminology terminology used in the supplement industry isn't actually correct.

So there's a famous saying, and it's actually a statistic stating, is that

statistics is like a girl in a bikini.

What it's showing is interesting, but what it's hiding is even more interesting.

Right?

And what it's kind of saying is like the actual study design teaches you what

it's there's different types of evidence based on the study design and this is where

a lot of

hate in the supplement industry has kind of occurred.

So a cohort or a pilot study, those aren't statistically powered to know that the effects were actually due to the intervention and not by chance.

So whenever you do

a study, you do a power calculation, and that basically determines the amount of people you need in the study to make sure that the effects were due to the actual thing you're studying instead of just chance.

Because without the proper statistical power, it could have just been a coincidence.

So if you take supplement XYZ and you notice

a 20% increase in muscle growth, right?

You can't say for sure that would then apply to the average person because it's an NO1, it's one person, right?

So you would need to do a power calculation to determine how many people you would need, 60 or 70, to see would this actually apply to the average person then.

So the issue is that studies are expensive and studies take human ethics approval.

So typically you start with a pilot study of like five or six people that generates proof of principle and then you do an actual study.

So a lot of people are citing that pilot study, which never actually meant to be cited.

It was meant to kind of just demonstrate proof of principle, show that like, you know, your hypothesis makes sense.

And then you would later on do a full-bludge.

Same thing with animal models, right?

Like an animal study is meant to kind of demonstrate, hey, there's something there.

It's meant to generate a hypothesis.

You don't know for sure that's going to work in humans.

It's just to kind of get you on the right path.

How often would you say that?

How often would you say that a study in animals has translated to something very, very similar, if not identical in humans?

Most of the time.

Okay.

But that's where this whole you know calculation thing comes into play and that it's not uh even if you're doing your calculations 100

accurate the dosage is never going to be exactly the same because you know different metabolisms different hormones even though you know we're all mammals we're so different so that's kind of where like even though it was demonstrated in an animal model we then need refinement in human models And this is kind of what I was telling you about offline is that a big mistake I see people make is that they see if a rodent took 10 milligrams as two kilograms and I'm 200 kilograms, I just take that dosage and multiply it by 100.

You don't actually use body weight.

Instead, you should use surface area because there's an efficiency of the metabolism.

So if an elephant weighs 100 times more than a dog, it doesn't require 100 times more food.

Because there's efficiency in state changes.

So when you're converting food into energy, once you've converted, there's an efficiency then for additional food.

The second law of thermodynamics, you probably remember this in engineering.

So a lot of times people, when they're reading studies, they're not even actually converting the dosages correctly.

Which kind of makes sense if you think about it, right?

Like it should be based on your surface area and there's also efficiency of metabolisms.

I have a post on my website and Instagram that has the conversion factors for anyone who's interested.

Because

the other thing that I kind of want to take take home is that PubMed is a search engine, right?

It's no different than Google.

Now with

Chat GPT and things like that, you can really be your own researcher when it comes to this stuff.

In PubMed, you could search creatine,

older adult dosage for strength, right?

And it'll spit out whatever results.

Then you can look at the studies and read the studies and come to your own conclusions.

I feel like a lot of people think that you need a PhD to read studies.

And, like, you know, granted, some of it is technical, but now with like Google and stuff, like, you can easily Google what terms mean and kind of figure stuff out yourself.

Yeah.

Do you ever kind of sift on PubMed or not, really?

Yeah, I do, but my understanding is really low,

in my personal opinion.

I feel like I have a a lot of time that I need to spend more into

fully understanding the studies that I read, especially since I'm also just so out of practice after school.

Like after engineering, I kind of

worked as an engineer for a year and then I just didn't want to do it anymore.

I wanted to go to the gym and bodybuild.

So I just quit that and did that instead for like seven plus years.

But I mean, I think that what you say though is,

I feel like Derek even from More Plates is like a prime example of that.

Like there's

still the capability for you to read and analyze studies properly, but there is just so much misinterpretation out there.

I know I may be going into a space that's totally

controversial and maybe not very related, but it kind of reminds me of how people interpret even like religion and the Bible.

It's just like everyone interprets it in the way that they feel or they believe, but

not,

I don't know it just

it just varies greatly

yeah so that's kind of like

what I was saying about misinterpreting studies that's a perfect example so

one prime example is that a cross-sectional study on red meat consumption and cardiovascular disease that was done in the 1950s that led to the hypothesis that red meat consumption causes cardiovascular disease, right?

And that's how red meat kind of got demonized.

but that was a hypothesis.

So with a cross-sectional study, you're basically looking at a bunch of people and you notice something like the more red meat people consume, the higher the rates of cardiovascular disease.

The issue though is that's an association because there's a lot of confounding variables because what is red meat typically found in?

Processed foods.

Right?

So if the person consuming that red meat was also conserving French fries and Coca-Cola or or whatever, right?

And their counterpart wasn't, and they had higher rates of cardiovascular disease, you can't definitively say that was from the red meat.

It could have been the seed oils, it could have been the sugar, it could have been the preservatives, it could have been the same.

Yeah, all these things that are contributing to inflammation.

So, that's the issue: is like a cross-sectional study is meant to generate hypothesis, which then you let you later would then test in a randomized controlled trial.

So, there's a lot of mistakes I see like that, kind of like your religion example, where people are making causal claims from something that was an association.

It was never meant to be something

you're actually taking to light.

It was like, oh, that was an interesting observation.

Let's look at this more.

Right.

And that's what really those researchers meant is they were like, hey, this is really interesting that we saw higher rates of red meat consumption linked to higher rates of cardiovascular disease.

Let's look into this more.

That was never them saying the two are linked together.

But then, you know, the media read the study and then, you know, they made their own headlines.

And then that's how that whole thing came to light.

And there's a lot of examples of that, like, you know, cholesterol causing heart attacks.

And like, like a lot of that was just information not being properly understood and then being

translated in the wrong way.

Gotcha.

Okay.

So it's, it's, yeah, man, it's, it's,

it's one of those things where it's like humans are very good at like

making their own

interpretations on things, even if it's not factual.

Yeah.

So

I guess

regarding cardiovascular health in the bodybuilding space, what would you say are some of the most prominent things that one should

know or be aware of in order to optimize their cardiovascular health in the long run?

And just considering basically the entire bodybuilding industry.

By far, the most important thing to keep an eye on is blood pressure.

So, blood pressure is really a marker of systemic inflammation in your body, right?

And high blood pressure is linked to pretty much everything.

It's a better indicator than cholesterol or triglycerides or things like that.

So, blood pressure, for sure, if you have high blood pressure, you know, regardless of the reason, whether it's, you know, compounds, just being a big guy, because, you know, a lot of bodybuilders are, you know, big humans, you definitely want to get on a hypertensive medicine.

It's not something you need to take the rest of your life.

You know, there's a big misconception that once I'm on a blood pressure medicine, you know, I have to be on it the rest of my life.

You definitely want to make sure that your blood pressure is in range.

Because that's, if you have high blood pressure, you're at like high, high risk for a heart attack or a stroke.

Right.

Especially in men.

You know, like, I'm not gender stereotyping, but cardiovascular rates are higher in men.

Cholesterol.

Cholesterol is,

in my opinion, a bit misinterpreted because cholesterol is very similar to body weight in that your body weight could have a high BMI, but you could just be a very muscular guy.

Right?

So with your cholesterol, it's the ratios that matter more, your cholesterol to HDL ratio.

Do you know the difference between HDL and LDL?

I do on a surface level.

So HDL, that's the good one.

That's the one, you know, like that's the good cholesterol.

That takes cholesterol and transports it out of the body.

So if you have high cholesterol, but also high HDL, it's not an issue because you've got a lot of cholesterol, but your body's also doing a good job of transporting the export out.

So that's kind of like the looking at the ratios more is like...

If someone has high cholesterol, but they also have a high HDL, that's not really a concern because their body's getting rid of a lot of extra cholesterol on a regular basis.

Now, if they have high cholesterol but a low HDL, that's really concerning because that's starting to build up and that can then cause atherosclerosis.

And that's why the ratio matters the most because LDL stores.

High cholesterol to low HDL is a concern.

If you have high cholesterol to high HDL, the high cholesterol is not really an issue.

The LDL takes cholesterol and then transports it to your cells.

You do need some cholesterol for

membrane structural integrity, hormones, like a lot of steroid hormones are actually cholesterol-based, but you don't want too much.

That's why that HDL is so important in that the HDL is almost like the garbage man getting rid of the excess.

So the most important thing in my opinion is the HDL.

The triglycerides is sugars.

So triglycerides could then be at, you know, you could put you at further risk later on for type 2 diabetes and things like that.

Triglycerides generally in bodybuilders aren't really that much of a concern because most of them are pretty active, assuming they're doing cardio.

Cardio is a really, really good way to help increase muscle insulin sensitivity and keep your heart healthy.

I know a lot of bodybuilders don't really want to do cardio, but you know, it has a lot of health impacts.

Right.

Like, if you go on PubMed and you just search like health impacts of 10,000 steps per day,

it's insane the amount of health benefits of like

body.

Even 10,000 steps per day, even if it's just zone one versus doing like such a like zone two and zone two to zone five

yeah yeah that's the crazy thing is like exercise even if it's like insanely low intensity still has a lot of health benefits okay cool now it's not going to turn you into like an Olympic sprinter obviously but for just like a lot of

you know overarching health stuff people care about blood lipids blood pressure insulin sensitivity it doesn't need to be intense

I'm going to, when we're done, I'll see if I can find the study.

I read this one study where people who were type 2 diabetic, they got them to walk 30 minutes a day at 2.3 on the treadmill, which is like,

you know what 2.3 is on the treadmill.

Like

you're going very, very slow.

And a lot of them were able to get off their metformin prescriptions just by walking at that speed.

Wow.

And that wasn't like with a specific timing, such as like after a meal or anything, was it?

No, no, no, it was just 30 minutes per day.

Wow.

Damn.

It's crazy, man, that like,

but it also makes logical sense if you think about this.

Like humans weren't meant to sit in a desk all day, right?

Like humans were meant to like walk around and forage and, you know, move their bodies.

So yeah, walking, obviously more intense cardio is better, but you don't need to do super intense cardio.

I would say, you know, especially for a guy who's like maybe really trying to build muscle and doesn't want to burn the calories, just walk at like 2.5 to 30 minutes while on your phone or while on Netflix or something.

Like you'll still get a lot of heart health benefits.

Okay, that's cool.

That's cool to hear because

John Jewett always, basically his little methodology that he likes to,

I think, advocate for is just doing steps during actual prep to also help lower the allostatic load.

Since, you know, some of these guys in bodybuilding are doing literally like two hours of cardio a day, like on the stair master or something crazy, or like super inclined treadmill.

He just advocates for like just doing steps during uh prep and then during your off season, that's when you can actually like you know increase the intensity if you choose to do so, such as going even doing hit cardio.

But like, I've always

I always was kind of like a little bit surprised at doing just steps during prep

because, you know, all these, a lot of these bodybuilders that are enhanced are running such crazy compound uses, just these crazy stacks during PrEP specifically.

And I always think like, I feel like that would be the best time or the most important time for someone to really try to combat negative cardiovascular effects.

So.

Yeah, but you also kind of got to think about the effect size you're going for here, right?

Like in whenever you're doing studies, you know, especially population studies, you have small, medium, and large effect sizes, right?

So steps is a great example: is the steps over one or two days isn't going to make a difference, but over months and years, it makes a huge, huge difference in your overall health.

Yeah, right.

So, like, let's just say, you know, your prep is 12 weeks, and you do a beating on your health during those 12 weeks.

If the rest of the year, you're extremely healthy, you're kind of nitigating those 12 weeks, right?

So, you kind of got to be thinking like long term and like over the span of years.

And, and that's why before doing a prep or before putting stress on your body you want to be healthy to begin with Yeah, okay, right, and that's why you know blood works important checking your blood pressure things like that

also just like listening to your body and like how you feel right like a lot of people kind of just

Forget to take into account like their own ancillary evidence like

when you wake up do you feel good like like you know how are you sleeping like do you have an appetite right like these are all like most people know when their body's out of sync, but then they self-medicate with more caffeine or, right?

Like, like,

really, you know your body better than anyone else.

And if your body's healthy, you should be sleeping well.

You should wake up feeling good.

You know, you should have an appetite.

You know, you should have energy without stimulants.

Right?

Like,

people, in my opinion, need to take more accountability on their health, you know, and also be like better monitors of their own health because you're going to know your body better than anyone else.

I like the way you put that.

I think that's a big thing about bodybuilding that

all the experts and all the most advanced people know, but obviously it's hard to like really press and discuss, I think, unless you're very...

It's kind of like what I was talking about with the levels of medicine, right?

Like the primary, secondary, tertiary.

Part of the reason why I think tertiary or preventative medicine doesn't get a lot of focus is it's not fun to talk about, right?

Like a triple bypass emergency heart surgery, like that's cool, right?

Like that, like that's cool, right?

Like that's an insane science, like the fact that

they can take a vein from your leg and then put it in your heart and like, it's insane.

Telling someone to do 10,000 steps and eat unprocessed food isn't cool.

Like it's

like, no, no, for real though, right?

Like, yeah.

And, you know, like, that's the unfortunate thing, too, about bodybuilding is that everyone wants to go beast mode.

Everyone wants to be hardcore and show I'm the most disciplined and things like that.

And then putting your foot on the brake pedal, it's not cool.

Right.

But you kind of got to think about like a lion, right?

Like a lion lounges around 23 hours of the day, but one hour per day is like the most ferocious animal on earth.

Right?

Like you kind of got to think like, you know, it's like am I

it's not that you're not intense, you're prioritizing your intensity

if that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes all the sense.

Um, and

try not to lose what I was thinking about.

Um, like back when I was training people, like I used to tell people, like,

it's not about time in the gym, it's about quality in the gym.

Yeah.

Right.

And like, that's kind of, like, I, like, I don't really train people anymore.

Like, occasionally I'll give people some nutrition advice here and there, but, like, I feel like people make the mistake of thinking more is always better, but it's not.

Better is better, right?

And that goes to everything.

Like people think more

substance, more training, more everything.

You know,

it doesn't really work like that because the human body can only absorb so much.

Right.

Like more training is just going to put more stress on your body, more wear and tear on your joints.

It's about the quality of the training.

And that's why like a lot of like the most advanced trainers in the day, it was all about the intensity of their training, like Dorian Yates and things like that.

Yeah.

And I think rest recovery and

rest recovery and total allostatic load is something that is just,

like you said, in a way, it's not really, really cool to talk about.

It's, it's honestly more of like a meme to like skip the rest day.

And, I mean, it used to be.

And I think that's the thing about like fitness and bodybuilding before was like how hard you go and like fucking David Goggins work till you fucking drop type shit all the time.

But I think that's the thing I like about 2025

in particular with fitness, health.

I mean, there's all these,

there's all these like voices now that are discussing the importance of being proactive with your health.

And I mean, I could probably list a fuck ton.

You know, there's Peter Attia, there's Andrew Huberman, and there's a bunch of those in the bodybuilding industries too.

John Jewett is one of them.

And I think it's a cool thing that people are now starting to appreciate and

like focus more on like holistic health and wellness and being proactive of your body.

And like, no, now bodybuilders are actually talking and discussing about how blood work is important to the fact that now literally all the bodybuilding influencer influencers are even saying, like, I got this, are like showing their blood work, you know, online.

So I just think it's a very different age now, which is kind of one of the reasons why I

advocate about this.

And I discuss this a lot on my podcast.

It's kind of one of the big, get, big mottos for me having the podcast in the first place: is like, you know, a lot of this shit that we do isn't, it's all fucking dangerous, you know.

But there's so many things that I think

people do not know or understand or haven't learned that could be really helpful in

just making sure that you have a long and reasonably, respectfully healthy life.

There's an interesting analogy.

So, your typical,

let's say, Toyota car, right?

It needs an oil change every 5,000 to 10,000 kilometers.

How often do you think a Ferrari needs to go for an oil change?

How often?

500.

Damn.

It needs 10 times more oil changes than your typical car because there's so much more that goes into it, right?

So it's almost like you got to kind of view yourself as like this high-end sports car.

If you're putting that much more stress on your body, that much more emphasis on your training than the average person, you actually need 10 times more recovery.

Now, recovery could be a lot of things.

It could be your nutrition, it could be your hydration, it could be your sleep, but you almost kind of got to think of yourself as being that Ferrari, right?

Especially if you're getting on stage, right?

Like you're extremely muscular, extremely low body fat, right?

Like you got to think, how much recovery and how much maintenance does my body need?

not just during the prep, but after the prep.

I thought that was an interesting analogy.

Someone told me that, I think it was a bodybuilding coach one time that told me that.

And I looked it up.

It's actually true.

I was like, actually, that's a really, really good analogy on why

recovery is so important, whether that's Epsom salt baths or sleep or electrolytes or hydration.

And a lot of the recovery stuff, honestly, is like boring stuff.

Right?

It's drinking enough water, sleeping enough, stretching, you know, like,

it's all boring stuff, but it's stuff that's really, really important, right?

And the one thing I've always kind of like laughed at is that, maybe not laughed at is the right word, but like the one thing I've always found odd is that people are willing to spend, you know, $5,000 on these crazy cold plunge type things, but then you ask them how much water they drink, and they're not even drinking two liters of water per day.

But they're not, you know, even sleeping six to eight hours per night, right?

It's like, again, people want the hardcore thing, but they're forgetting the basics, right?

Like, there's nothing wrong with the hardcore stuff, but you need to master the basics first, right?

As if that cool plunge thing is giving you 5%,

proper sleep and hydration is giving you 30%,

right?

But that's kind of like the society we live in.

A lot of that's, you know, social media and like everyone's chasing the carrot, but they're forgetting all the other stuff that, you know, they're forgetting the entire garden they have at their disposal.

Right.

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And this way, I can travel to other guests and also upgrade an equipment to make this podcast bigger and better for you guys.

Right.

Missing the forest for the trees.

Yeah, no, no, no.

That's, that's definitely a, definitely a

super good analogy.

And, you know, especially just like in the,

just in the day and time we live in, right?

Like you go on Instagram for five minutes, there's 50 latest and greatest things that, you know, is better than what you're currently doing or whatever, right?

Like

you're always trying to be sold that whatever you're doing isn't good.

There's something better out there.

Okay, so

regarding cardiovascular health,

so we mentioned some of the most important things.

So monitoring blood work and then making sure that's in a good range.

What would you say, by the way?

Do you have to have a

like a reference or a number that you would say yourself is too high for blood work or not blood work for

blood pressure?

I know doctors have

I've heard that doctors have like changed it a little bit.

Some say like 130 now over.

Well, 120 over 80 is the gold standard.

Yeah.

Can you go a little bit higher than that?

Yeah.

The higher you get, the higher your risk.

I think anything over 150 is considered extreme hypertension.

The values are like the established values are posted, so you can just Google it.

But it's one of those things where it's like,

it's not so much the values itself, it's the trend.

So if your blood pressure is a little bit high, but it keeps getting higher, you really got to keep an eye on that.

It's same thing.

And that's why, you know, constant monitoring is so important.

The other thing,

and I just remember this from when I was doing my master's study, it's also super important the actual blood pressure cuff.

A lot of blood pressure cuffs for big guys aren't properly recording because their bicep is bigger than the average person.

I should say

arm width.

So One of the best things a bodybuilder can invest in is an at-home blood pressure monitor.

And with the correct size cuff, you need a large or an extra large.

and the other nice thing about that is that that way you're using the same machine so you have a better sense of the trends right like there's not gonna be a huge amount of variance from like machine a to machine b but if you're using the same machine once a week right then you you know it's the same consistent machine and you can it's an apples to apples type of comparison yeah

Definitely keep your eye on the blood pressure.

I don't want to give specifics because it also depends on like your family history and like your other blood biomarkers and things like that.

The one thing I will say though is the more information you give your doctor, the better, right?

Like a lot of people often are scared to tell their doctor about illegal substances they're taking or you know their overconsumption of alcohol or whatever, right?

Your doctor is on your team.

Your doctor is going to, you know, do his due diligence and say, hey, you shouldn't be doing that.

But taking that knowledge into account, he can then give you the best best practice available.

Right.

So there is a confidentiality agreement.

So everything you tell your doctor, he cannot repeat unless it's going to cause harm to someone else.

It's the same thing with the therapist, right?

So like, if you say like, you know, you're going to go kill someone, then he has the right to go contact the police.

But anything that's considered self-harm, there's confidentiality.

So the more you tell your doctor, the better, because he's, because a lot of times he's not able to properly help you if he doesn't know all the information.

right i think that i think that confidentiality is the is the important point because uh in defense for some of the listeners i know that there's a lot of asshole doctors out there for sure but i think if they're like refusing to help you for that sake i mean i think the point thing is just find a new doctor that will because there are doctors out there that totally will i got lucky in finding one myself so

Well, that's like that actually brings up such a good point is like, you know, a lot of times people will contact me and be like, hey, i need help my doctor sucks i'll be like we'll find a new doctor right like if you had a crappy plumber you wouldn't keep hiring your crappy plumber right like i know in the us it's a little bit more complicated because you have to have like the doctor and your network and and things like that but you should have a couple different options like if one guy's not helping you go see someone else yeah yeah right and you know that's why it's and also like

That's kind of what I was saying about taking ownership about your

own health is your doctor is not going to follow up with you right like it's up to you to say hey I want to get this blood work done once a year hey I want you know like like it's really you to be the one pioneering the conversation on like the things you want him to look at or

submit a blood requisition form for or imaging or right like

you it's really up to you to ask for this stuff right like if you've got a shoulder that's hurting you and you think you know it might be a tear you got to ask for the MRI.

It's not just gonna write you an MRI just for the sake of it, right?

Like, it's up to you to be asking for this stuff.

What

are some tests that you would recommend for guys for heart health?

Um, I know,

like, for example, tests tests that measure plaque buildup or

maybe

changes in organ size,

those are all very, very complicated to do, And

most doctors aren't going to entertain that.

So like typically how our healthcare system works is like you start with the easy stuff and then you go from there.

So if you have high blood pressure and then you get a hypertension medicine and it's not fixed, then your doctor is like, hey, there's more here.

Let's check the size of your organs and things like that.

So you kind of got to go through the system.

Based on what's available to you, based on what your healthcare will cover and things like that, your doctor will be able to kind of guide next steps.

But it's kind of like we were talking about the simple stuff.

Like,

if all of your baseline stuff is good, you don't really have to worry about the other stuff, right?

It's only if stuff is not looking good, then you have to start going, okay, you know, is there more to this here?

Right.

So, blood pressure is by far the most important, in my opinion.

Obviously, blood lipids do,

but I would definitely say blood pressure is the first one.

Okay.

If you might be up to talking about tertiary medicine,

so we discussed some of the important ways that someone can try to be

proactive about their heart health, such as like cardio,

eating food that's probably

right for them that won't cause inflammation.

So, you know, I feel like there could be a variety.

Is there any

I know you have some background in nutrition as well.

Is there what what like

what would you recommend for someone in order to avoid inflammation

honestly i know it differs in the diet no man it's the simplest answer and this is 10 years of university education summed up is that in i'm gonna use the god term i don't mean to offend anyone if god made it eat it it comes in a box with a bunch of ingredients you can't pronounce don't eat it right like all the inflammatory stuff is the artificial preservatives the artificial ingredients the processed foods like just really just stay away from processed foods right like that's that's the secret Now, how much fat to carb to protein, like, like, that's more specific on like your body composition goals, but really, just don't eat processed food.

That's the simplest thing, right?

And then, and then, also,

I don't want people to think that processed foods are the devil, right?

You don't, you, you also want to be able to enjoy these foods in moderation, but you also need to be, you also have, they're moderate foods, right?

So,

one issue that I've noticed in nutrition, especially in, you know, competitive athletes, is that they label a food as bad.

And then when they finally eat that food, the binge effect occurs because they're like, oh, well, I ate this taboo food and now I might as well make the best of it.

Right.

So instead of eating a slice of pizza, they eat the entire pizza.

Right.

So processed foods are not good for you, but in moderation, they're not going to hurt you.

It's that kind of, you know, 80-20 or 90, 90-10 rule, right?

So still fit them in so you can have a healthy relationship with food.

Like eating eating birthday cake on your birthday is not going to hurt you, but you shouldn't be eating cake on a daily basis.

And that's kind of like what I always try to tell people.

And like, same with alcohol, right?

Like a beer once a week is not going to hurt you.

An entire bottle of vodka every day, you know, that's going to hurt you, right?

Like moderation is the key to everything.

I would really, really say, you know, the unprocessed foods.

For whatever reason, a lot of people have gotten really anti-fruits and vegetables.

I'm not really sure where that came from with the whole carnivore thing.

The amount of scientific literature on the benefits of fruits and vegetable to prevent diseases, improve cardiovascular health is enormous.

Like I really, really don't agree with those recommendations of not eating fruits and vegetables.

And here's, in my opinion, where all of those hypotheses came from.

So if you're eating a lot of processed food and, you know, crap, for lack of a better word, right?

And then you switch to the carnivore diet and you feel way better,

in my opinion, the reason you feel better isn't because of what you're eating.

It's because of what have you removed.

Like if you remove McDonald's and I'm like, I'm demonizing McDonald's, but they're all equally bad.

If you're eating chocolate bars and potato chips and...

frozen microwave dinners and stuff and you cut that all out and then you're just eating steak off the barbecue yeah i bet you your health outcomes will improve because you cut out all that crap.

Right?

I don't think it's the steak off the barbecue that's really helping you.

I think it's the fact you cut all that stuff out.

Right?

And that's the same thing with, you know, like a lot of these like fad diet trends I used to have, like the grapefruit diet and stuff where you eat nothing but grapefruit because grapefruit is this magical fat loss thing.

Well, of course you're going to lose weight because you just cut out 2,000 calories of other food.

Yeah.

I think you're losing too many grapefruits in a day before you're like, like, I'm sick of grapefruits.

I don't want to eat any more grapefruits.

And that's kind of where a lot of these diet trends, whether it's like, you know, like the vegan trend or things like that, they're so effective at weight loss because if you've just cut out the majority of the food you used to eat, of course you're going to lose weight because you're inherently eating way less.

So that's that's my opinion.

I personally think like in terms of health, the best thing you can do is prioritize lean proteins and lots of fruits and

And if you look at like the blue zones and things like that, most people in that area, it's lots of lean protein, lots of fruits and vegetables, lots of unprocessed grains, and lots of walking is typically what you see.

Yeah, but again, vegetables aren't sexy.

They're not, like,

would you rather eat a bagel or some asparagus?

The bagel, right?

Like,

that's the issue is like a lot of people just, and myself included, right?

Like, I would much rather eat a slice of bread than a cucumber, right?

Like most people would, but inherently fruits and vegetables are really high in micronutrients, high in fiber, high in water, and low in calories.

Yeah.

Have you ever, um, have you ever heard of Austin Stout or seen his work, his content?

Yes.

I think back when I had my podcast, I think he came on actually.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, he's someone that I've hosted, I've had two podcasts with, and I love his work.

I mean, he really focuses like everything that he almost everything he focuses on is is gi health and he basically says the same thing is that like a lot of the problems that happen with a lot of these gi issues in the first place too is because um they're starting to lack variety or they're maybe like they're consisting of like maybe some processed foods but then they're lacking in the variety of other nutritional needs that they need from something like fruits or something like vegetables you know and even though

i think a good assortment of fruits and vegetables is probably the most optimal you can do, like he states that even like if you're having those issues, just adding like one vegetable at a time, very, very slowly.

And even just like a small amount, like one serving, for example, that already starts making a difference.

And then add another one whenever you're ready and whenever you can actually start digesting these.

Or, for example, like you don't even have to eat broccoli if you don't want to.

If it's a cruciferous vegetable and it causes you, you know, um, flatulence and a bunch of other issues, just avoid those.

Like there's other things like zucchini and carrots.

So, um,

well a lot of a lot of times actually that flatulence could actually be a good thing so fruits and vegetables are very high in prebiotics do you know what you know what a prebiotic is

so a prebiotic is the food that probiotics eat so probiotics are the actual bacteria in your gut microflora and the prebiotics are the food that they eat so if you eat something that you've never you haven't eaten in a long time let's just say brussels sprouts right like you haven't eaten brussels spreads in 10 years you eat brussels spreads that's a prebiotic you're introducing to your gut microflora that they haven't had in a long time.

So your probiotic microflora is basically going to town.

They're like, this is freaking great.

And because of that, they're repopulating.

It's causing a lot of gas.

It's causing a lot of fluctuance.

That'll eventually go away as, you know, those colonies kind of get more used to it.

But a lot of times, like, when you're getting gas, it's actually not a bad thing.

It's an unpleasant side effect.

But that's why.

Those foods are very, very high in prebiotics.

But, you know, know you also don't want to be miserable and his advice of you know kind of introducing them slowly is really good and that's why is like if you have fruits and vegetables which are high in prebiotics versus processed foods which is null your body's just not used your gut microflora is just not used to getting all that nourishment in a sense yeah maybe it'd almost be like if you were on a 10-day fast and all of a sudden ate a massive thanksgiving dinner you'd feel really uncomfortable too right doesn't mean like that food was bad for you it just means like you're not used to it.

Right.

Something really interesting is that what do you think is more genetic information, our cells or an apple?

It sounds like a trick question.

The apple actually has more genetic information than ourselves.

And the reason for that is the majority of our genetic information is actually in the bacteria living in our body.

And as the science emerges, we're starting to realize how important the gut is to all health, not just physical health, but also mental health.

And you've probably heard, you know, the gut-brain access and things like that.

And, you know, a lot of those like old wives tales, like listen to your gut, we're actually starting to realize like a lot of that, there's actually truth to it, right?

There's the amount of genetic information in our gut is

way, way more than the amount in our cells.

And it's actually so fascinating on how much gut health impacts all other health.

And there's, there's not in humans yet, but there's been rodent studies where they've actually took a healthy rat, took its gut microbiome, put it into an obese rat, and the obese rat lost weight.

Damn, that's crazy.

Isn't that fascinating?

Yeah.

In my opinion, in the next 20 years, a lot of the research and medicine is going to be on gut health.

Wow.

Yeah, that's freaking awesome.

And we're just starting to realize how detrimental the processed food is to our gut health.

And it's kind of like asbestos, right?

Like asbestos was in every single house until we realized how bad it was.

And we're like, oh, crap, right?

It's like, I think a lot of this is going to occur too with processed foods, and particularly sugar, in that

regular and chronic consumption of them causes a lot of detrimental health benefits.

Now, I'm also a realist.

Like, consuming sugar once in a blue moon, I don't think that's going to hurt you, but it shouldn't be a chronic daily consumption thing kind of like that alcohol analogy we talked about before

what do you think of um

I don't remember where I heard this but I remember hearing something like you should aim to have sugar as less than 10% of your total carb consumption

I think that's um I'm in Canada so I can't speak on the FDA super factual but I think that's actually an FDA guideline

okay

and I think when you know you look at like a nutrition facts panel and it says like 10 grams of sugar, your percent daily value, I think that's a reverse calculation of your total carbs and then sugar being 10% of that.

Gotcha.

Okay.

I agree with that.

Sugar is not something humans really know how to deal with because it's not something that's found in nature.

Right.

Like

again, kind of going back to that like, if God made it type of thing is like a lot of the things we're putting in our body, it's causing so much havoc because our bodies don't really know how to deal with it.

It's not something that humans have ever consumed besides the last 50 years.

I mean, processed sugars, of course, being the worst, though, I feel like there are still

just how much better are natural sugars, in your opinion.

I know there's some benefits to allulose, but I mean, there's a lot of natural sugars and fructose out there.

But I mean, then again, I guess it's processed if you're like, for example, stripping the fiber away from a fruit.

That's what it is.

It's stripping the fiber away.

So when you look at like the glycemic load of like an apple versus a Coca-Cola, the apple is slowly digested over the course of hours because there's all that fiber, all that other stuff that your body also has to digest at the same time.

Coca-Cola, because that's straight sugar.

That's almost like a drug hide for your body, right?

Because your blood sugar spikes in a way that would never happen in nature.

And when your blood sugar spikes, you get an adrenaline rush, but then your blood sugar crashes and it also then causes like this

withdrawal symptom.

Like sugar is actually very, very similar to a lot of like recreational drugs in terms of addiction.

There's been a lot of studies showing that like sugar consumption actually causes the same addictive traits to like, you know, cocaine or heroin or things like that, because it's very similar.

And like you get that immediate serotonin and dopamine rush in the crash.

And then of course every hoiman, if they get that serotonin and dopamine rush, they want more of that.

And then that's

how sugar becomes such a chronic consumption thing.

You can't help but feel good when you eat an ice cream bar or Coca-Cola, right?

Like your body, you're in programmed to, right?

But it's also realizing like,

you know, you're going to pay the piper later on is like, even though that feels good in the moment, it's doing more detrimental harm harm long term right like it's playing the tape to the end knowing that like once in a while this isn't going to hurt me but this isn't something i should be doing regularly right right absolutely if you feel like any of the medications that we spoke about today may benefit you such as bpc 157 gh acreagogs such as tessamirellin igf1 oxandrolin chrochee semaglutide then you can obtain these from transcendent hrt and the link for that will be in the bio If you feel like you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone, such as depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, as well as lack of sex drive, then you can get this checked out as well by getting your blood work done at Transcend and they will provide you expert medical analysis.

Transcend HRT has worked with many professional bodybuilders and pro athletes such as Thor Bjornsson, Phil Heath, and Jeremy Bundia.

And if you feel like this podcast has any relevancy to you, I do believe that this clinic will provide of great benefit to you as well.

So we're definitely not condoning this, but I know that I've heard of this before.

What would be the case in that situation then with bodybuilders that are taking something like that

take a fast-acting insulin or like an IGF-1 of some sort and then doing some kind of fast-acting glucose, whether it's cyclic dextrin or actually just straight up sugar, processed sugar?

I mean, that would be a completely different conversation because you're adding pharmacotherapy, right?

That's like,

yeah, like

that, all the regular rules just apply because you're basically playing God by adding additional hormones into your body.

Right.

So then whenever pharmacotherapy is involved, like your typical recommendations and stuff are all thrown out the window because that's not a typical situation anymore.

So yeah.

Gotcha.

So.

If someone has gotten all the basics down for their heart health,

what supplements would you recommend?

So if you're in Canada, vitamin D for sure.

Vitamin D is definitely a really important one.

Omega-3s for sure.

When I say omega-3, that means fish oil.

It means the same thing.

What do you think about the whole fish oil, krill, oil debate?

It's kind of like broccoli versus broccoli sprouts.

Is there a little bit more nutrients in the sprouts?

Yeah, but it's kind of the same thing.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

You know, if you got an extra additional income, you know, the krill oil is good, but fish oil is tried and true.

The amount of scientific evidence on fish oil is like insane.

So I would say, unless, you know, like money is not a concern by any means, I would just stick with kind of what you know.

Magnesium, for most athletes, most athletes are deficient in magnesium.

Not that it's a replacement for fruits and vegetables, but like a greens powder, most people would benefit from because most people, even if they're making an effort, aren't eating the amount of fruits and vegetables they probably should.

Just because, you know, life is busy.

And then, same thing for the same conversation would be like a protein powder, right?

Because protein is so important.

Like, we know the importance of protein for satiation, for general health, but people are busy.

Right.

So,

this is a weird question that I've literally never asked anyone.

I also probably just didn't take enough time to research it myself, but like

greens powder, for example, like, isn't that technically considered processed?

So that's a good question.

And yeah,

it is.

And it's like the same with protein powder.

Protein powder is technically considered processed.

And so are supplements for that matter.

Like processed in the right circumstances isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Right.

Like take fish oil, for example.

You're processing the healthy fats out of the fish.

So certain processed foods for, you know, convenience and things like that, I would say are arguably good.

Usually most processing isn't a good thing, but

it's no different than you go to the grocery store and they process the broccoli into cutting it up into little pieces so you don't have to worry about cutting it up or things like that, right?

But the issue with these words like processed is that it's kind of a blanket term.

It can mean a hundred things.

Yeah, like protein powder, for example, is processed, right?

It's milk with the sugar taken out.

So I would argue that, you know, in that circumstances, the processed is good because it's getting rid of the, you know, the stuff you don't really want, in a sense.

But yeah, you're right, it is processed.

But if you think about what a greens powder is, it's really just freeze-dried fruits and vegetables crushed up into a powder.

So

although that's technically processed, it would almost be on the same lines of like a dried fruit right like is that is that processed yes but like, is that really processed?

I mean, it's, it's up for debate, I would say.

I probably wouldn't really consider it a negative processing.

Gotcha.

Okay.

You could also say, you know, like freezing chicken breasts so it doesn't go bad is like processing the meat in a sense, but like,

I mean, it's, it's.

When you think real world, I would say no.

So yeah, so those would definitely be my recommendations.

Also a fiber supplement, depending on diet, right?

Depending on like the greens, fiber, and protein would all be like circumstantial depending on your diet.

In a perfect situation, you wouldn't need those things, but who has a perfect situation?

Most people don't.

So what about intense intervention regarding organ health if someone needs that intervention?

So like supplements such as like nanokinase, Cokuten, red yeast rice, like any of these supplements, histragalous root.

I guess what are your, what's your perspective on these?

I'd say everything has an application, but it's so person-specific.

Right?

Like it's really hard to give out general recommendations like that where it would depend on what's the specific organ, what have you done in the past, what are you currently doing, what's worked, what hasn't worked.

That's where, you know, I kind of have said working with a healthcare practitioner, whether it's a doctor or whoever, right?

Like they can really give you the best guidance because they know your whole story.

But everything has an application, in my opinion, and it's just what is the right application for that person in that time.

And things also change too, like as your body, as you get older or as your body changes, right?

Like what I would recommend, Joe Simpson when he was 18 versus 75 would be very different.

Or someone, you know, who is now

a mom, right?

you know,

you know, who's breastfeeding, right, versus her five years earlier when she was doing shows, right?

Like, her situation is very, very different.

So, everything she would do would be very, very different.

Okay.

Okay.

Do you have any final questions?

I got another meeting in a couple of minutes.

Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

If you don't mind me just asking Timore real quick, what are your thoughts on arachnidonic acid supplementation?

Definitely works.

It's very misunderstood.

Okay.

So, arachnidonic acid is what is stored in muscle cells and when you work out it's released and it activates the inflammatory kinase that causes inflammation in the muscle cells.

Now the problem with the word inflammation is people think inflammation is bad.

Inflammation in the right circumstances is actually good.

Inflammation is how your body heals and grows.

Right?

Without inflammation your body wouldn't be able to heal itself and that's why like you hurt your arm, you get a bruise, it's inflamed, and that's what signals the healing process.

So arachidonic acid really does work taken pre-exercise because it increases more inflammation during your workout.

Now your body also has to recover from that inflammation so I don't think it's something you should necessarily take every day but it does really work because it's increasing the stressor.

It would almost be like going from regular sets to supersets.

You increase the stress on that muscle, you're going to get a better muscle hypertrophy response.

So arachidonic acid definitely does work, but it's one of those things like it is putting stress on your body.

So you also got to be kind of strategic on when you would use it.

And I wouldn't use it daily.

I would use it once or twice per week and time it based on like whatever body part or

you're trying to work on.

But it definitely works.

And anyone who has used it can testify that like the next day you're like insanely sore.

I don't know if you've ever used it, but like.

Wow,

you can definitely notice it the next day.

Yeah, I do.

I use it from

huge supplements.

They have their own arachnodonic acid supplement.

And I've used it in the past with the knowledge that you would be more sore afterwards.

Yeah.

But and some awareness that it does increase inflammation.

I wasn't completely sure, though, how effective it was.

So it's kind of nice to hear you say that

it's something that I guess I could actually really believe in.

No, it's got, I mean, when I was doing, like, I've formulated quite a few products with arachidonic acid, it's got quite a few studies behind it.

Most of the studies were in older adults because, you know, in order to get funding for a study, you have to sell it as a preventative medicine for sarcopenia.

Yeah, it's got quite a bit of data on it that it does work.

But like I said, it is increasing inflammation.

So you'd want to kind of only use a couple of days per week.

Okay.

Cool.

Awesome.

That's good to know because I've definitely taken it for more than that.

And

I recall you saying in a previous podcast you were on, I think it was actually Mark Bellis, but I think you were stating that a drug, any drug that increases metabolism, I think they were

trying to remember if it was cauine that they were discussing, but you were mentioning that any drug that increases metabolism will increase the risk of developing diseases such as cancer.

Yeah, I mean, because everything was moving at a faster rate.

Right.

Now,

I mean, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but yeah, yeah, the faster metabolism, the faster enzymatic processes that are occurring.

Right?

So a fast metabolism is good in certain circumstances because, you know, you're increasing muscle turnover quicker and things like that.

But a faster metabolism is making everything occur quicker.

Right.

And there's no, I mean, if you look at population level data of like professional athletes who, you know, put a lot of strain on their body, ate a lot of food, you know, or like everything was working in overload, they generally die a lot sooner than the average person because they've expedited everything,

right?

Like it kind of makes sense if you think about this, right?

If your car has 100,000 kilometers before it tanks out and you're driving it eight hours a day versus six hours per day, you're going to get less total years out of your car.

Okay, cool.

There's not, there's not,

again, that's kind of going back to that study thing, that's all cross-sectional and longitudinal data.

So you can't say 100% definitively, but my hypothesis and based on, you know, logical reasoning, it makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

And I do really like that you say that because I think there's a lot of people that try to explain the danger about bodybuilding in general, especially just like PED use.

And

people will just like, oh, it ages you or whatever and things like that.

But I think the way that you put it,

like speedrunning the process, you know, getting somewhere faster, you kind of expedite a lot of these

potentially aging processes.

Well, I'll say this and then, you know, I'll hop off is that

any stressor on your body is going to age you faster unless you're doing the proper recovery mechanisms, right?

It's one of those things like, it's like the yin and yang balance, right?

It's like, and I'm not just talking about bodybuilding, right?

It's like if you're using your knees a lot more than the average person but you're not doing the proper like mobility work and stretching and proper nutrition and stuff your knees are going to wear out quicker right now if you're eating properly and stretching you know sleeping things so your body can recover and heal you're probably not going to have those issues but if you're putting a lot of stress on your knees and you're not eating well you're not sleeping you know you're not

things are going to break, right?

Like the human body is no different than a car, right?

Like if you're not doing proper maintenance on your car and you're using your car a lot it's gonna break down sooner than the car that's not driven as much right and that's kind of where like I feel like people often with a lot of this stuff kind of forget logic right and I think a lot of times the reason for that is logic is not sexy it's not fun it's not exciting right like sleeping eight hours a night is not cool right like it's it's it's it's just it's not right like it's not as exciting as saying oh i slept two hours because i'm going beast mode because you know i'm a grinder or whatever right?

And you see all these like

Instagram things where they wake up at 3 a.m.

and they do their like cold shower.

And like,

I'm not saying, you know, any of that's wrong, but like, you're forgetting the fundamentals of just like proper sleep, proper recovery, proper nutrition,

proper hydration, right?

Like, before you're doing these crazy cold plunges and stuff, you got to ask yourself, Am I even checking the regular basics?

Okay.

Last thing I'll say is that

with anything in life, like you're really in, you're really in the driver's seat.

So when it comes to your health and stuff, it's up to you to prioritize your health and prioritize blood work and talking to your doctor and getting regular screenings and checking your blood pressure and things like that.

Because there's a famous saying, health is the one thing you appreciate when it's gone.

And I've seen a lot of people in this sport.

I was really good friends with Boston Lloyd, for example.

And

it's one of those things where like your health can deteriorate really, really quick.

So, you know, if anything, if people get anything from this podcast, hopefully they just realize like, you know, health is something,

it's not a destination, it's a journey.

It's something you should continually be working towards.

And you're in the driver's seat of that journey, right?

Like, it's up to you to really be taking care of your body and being kind to your body.

Right.

Like, if you're training really hard in the gym, you got to be kind to your body and let it recover through sleep and nutrition and hydration and things like that.

Awesome.

Well, thank you for coming on, man.

That was awesome.

Yeah, no, hopefully that was helpful.

I hope you hope

your listeners like that.

Yeah, no, they really will because there's a lot of,

I think you put a lot of things that people kind of have some kind of awareness to into perspective and a lot more detail.

And from someone that is credible in like a lot of, I guess, the fitness industry and social media in general.

So I appreciate that.

I don't know about that.

Maybe a C-level credibility, but glad I could help.

Yeah.

Thanks again.

Catch you later.

All right.

You too.

See ya.