Jo Palacios: How He Transformed in 3 Years (PED Real Talk) & Placed 2nd At Texas Pro ft. Andy Paredes

Speaker 1 Joe Palacios, open bodybuilding IFPV pro that shocked the world and the bodybuilding industry, transforming in three years and getting second at the Texas Pro and third at the Tampa Pro this year.

Speaker 2 As far as size, the most progress I made was from 2023 to 24, where I put on 20 pounds of stage weight. That was pretty wild.
I don't want people to think this was the be-all end-all, but I did run.

Speaker 2 I highly value what my coach, Justin Compton, has to say to me.

Speaker 2 Even this last rebound, he said, I can't believe that your body is still progressing at this rate each and every year i've always had to run a little bit on every cycle that's always in play i've put in so much of my time my heart everything lost people along the way that part of doing this has caused problems so it's like am i really gonna give up i had to lose 30 pounds and it took me six weeks to draw 32 pounds six weeks what the i guess i didn't want to let my brother down and my mom let's bump it to a 200 and see how well you tolerate that and i tolerated it well and then 50 mgs of winnie pre-training 50 mgs of Anivar pre-training, 10 megs of Halo pre-training, 10 megs of Superdraw pre-training.

Speaker 1 What would you guys attest the most, supplementation included, to keeping your health in check?

Speaker 3 I don't know if you guys saw, but I got my food up again. It's 887 grams of carbs.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 This is the highest you've ever been, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, part of me thinks, Am I tired? Or I'm like, nah, bro, I think it's just like.

Speaker 1 How much would you say that your doses increased every year from going from 500 and five years ago up to

Speaker 1 before starting this podcast, I just wanted to say that ideating steroids for a full show is not widely accepted because it discounts the real work which is the backbone of this sport and unfortunately spreads that an unsafe chemical solution is all you need for results.

Speaker 1 Both of these are an antithetical to society's understanding of the sport and while there will always be some that claim that PEDs are all you need, I would like to deliver an honest message of what is required for achieving top performance as well as the dangers associated with this route.

Speaker 1 I received this comment from a user named Night Scarens.

Speaker 1 But just as a rock climber, the athletes undergoing this path in the sport are willing to put their life on the line for their passion. Just the danger between the two sports is different.

Speaker 1 Luckily, we do have safety nets in the sport, such as organ imaging and regular blood work.

Speaker 1 But that doesn't change the high risk one must accept in taking on this competitive lifestyle.

Speaker 1 I just want to say thanks for coming on, bro, by the way.

Speaker 1 A lot of the audiences really appreciate that you're so real about everything you do, down to like how much you manage peds over the years and stuff especially with the crazy transformations so and uh it's probably what my audience appreciates most since like 99 of them are actually pretty smart and understand that there's you know a sweet spot which i appreciate probably still only like that one percent that's still kind of like mentally handicapped but you know they'll figure it out someday There's always yeah, man, honestly, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 I've been transparent since the very beginning because I always promised myself I would be just in case someone up and coming was watching and wanted to know I was realistic and I didn't want to push their health like crazy or hurt themselves.

Speaker 2 And so I've had really good guidance the whole way through, but still to this day, people don't believe what I have to say.

Speaker 3 I'm all right. Well, fuck it.

Speaker 2 I tried.

Speaker 2 I'm not surprised.

Speaker 1 Dude, I

Speaker 1 man, I've listened to some podcasts with you on it. And

Speaker 1 like, I think maybe the pictures that you have when you were natty look so fucking sick that it's hard to believe.

Speaker 1 Even back in the day, I was like way smaller than you were when you were natty, but obviously I didn't train for nearly as long. Like I think, I I think my last natty pictures were 22,

Speaker 1 22 years oldish. That's when we started running like just orals, which was really dumb.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 yeah, you were natty up till 27, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so November,

Speaker 2 the date was November 17th in 2021, where I started using PDs.

Speaker 2 My birthday is February 1st.

Speaker 2 So it was right before I turned 27, right before. Nice.

Speaker 1 Nice. Great birthday gift.

Speaker 2 Fuck.

Speaker 2 So I was so excited. I'll never forget that shit.

Speaker 2 Like, it's funny because I remember when I did that, like, I literally was in the gym bathroom. The guy that was helping me showed me how to pin and everything.
He was my first pin.

Speaker 2 I'll never forget it. And then he gave me a bottle of D-ball, took my first D-ball.

Speaker 2 And that was my very first cycle, pretty much. And later on in the cycle, when the D-ball dropped, I had an EQ.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I remember just like, fuck, what am I supposed to feel? Like,

Speaker 2 am I automatically stronger? I didn't know how things worked. You know, he taught me along the way, but I didn't know what I was supposed to feel.
Like, would I feel it?

Speaker 2 Like, am I just going to see myself get fucking huge? Like, I don't know what the fuck's going on. Right.
But yeah, now I know how things work, but it was just such an exciting moment for me.

Speaker 2 I feel that a lot, bro.

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 1 when I found out that I was running Halo tests, and it's a long, long story.

Speaker 1 You know, I like didn't want to ever run shit in the beginning because one, I had a fear of needles and two, I had nothing, I had no knowledge about PEDs, nor did I have anyone really to go to except for a coach that

Speaker 1 I didn't really have. I don't know, I wouldn't consider it a close relationship at all.
In fact, I was more just like intimidated by him and

Speaker 1 didn't want to ask him for anything. So,

Speaker 1 you know, um,

Speaker 1 when I found out that one of the pills was Halo testing that he was having me take,

Speaker 1 honestly, I was pretty hyped. I was just like, you know what? Fuck it, I guess it's over.

Speaker 1 The dark side adapted me, anyways. Maybe I belong here.

Speaker 2 That's Phil Medrius.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but before prefacing what we're going to talk about throughout this podcast, too, I just

Speaker 1 appreciate you opening up and being real, regardless of the small percentage that will never believe the people that are discussing things on this podcast.

Speaker 1 There's still comments saying that

Speaker 1 it's just obvious that Martin is a liar and he's lying about the like his off-season dosages, which,

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, whether it's true or not, it's, it's, it's like the people who truly believe this really believe that you need to be running things like a three-gram test base and you need to be titrating up doses to like six gram totals.

Speaker 1 And like, this is a very big 90s mentality, you know what I mean? And in that 90s mentality, they also had no coherence or

Speaker 1 consciousness over blood work markers, over longevity markers.

Speaker 1 I don't even know if any of them really check their blood pressure, to be honest.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 it's just a whole nother era. And from the 157 episodes I've had now or so, it's been pretty clear.

Speaker 1 I even discussed this with Ian Valaire on our podcast that we came to a conclusion the average open doses for off-season when it comes to just the test base normally ranges anywhere from like 750 to like 1.3 grams or so.

Speaker 1 So you telling us openly that you're at the place where you're running running 1.2 grams to me is like, why would someone, why would someone want to believe that you're lying and that you had to push even further?

Speaker 1 Because at that point, like you're, you're hurting yourself in so many different places, you know?

Speaker 1 I've felt myself that anytime my body is, the oxidative stress is too high, my blood pressure is too high, this affects all my training markers, this affects my sleep, and all of that.

Speaker 1 not just affects my recovery and just how much I'm like developing over the course of the next few months, but honestly, just just fucking fucks my mental health, man.

Speaker 2 It like really fucks you.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 you know, it's funny. I didn't know that until like, you know, in hindsight, it's 2020.
Like, man, I really made some of those decisions while I was running this, this, and this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And when you read on some of the things, it says it fucks with your mental state or like it could cause depression or whatever. And it's like, damn, I think it did.

Speaker 2 I've told this story on another podcast. I can't remember which one, but

Speaker 2 EQ is known for causing depressive side effects.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Some weird anxiety effects on some people too.

Speaker 2 I've

Speaker 2 taken EQ since the beginning, like I said, like it's been in almost every single cycle I've ran.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I remember I was cool, you know, chill. Like I loved my old job and stuff.
And I, but I really started getting immersed in the bodybuilding thing.

Speaker 2 But then around the same time I started taking that shit, I was like, man, I fucking hate what I do. Like I was miserable.
Like, you know what? I'm like, maybe it's because I really love bodybuilding.

Speaker 2 Now that I think about it, I was like, I was like, I think the EQ was fucking on my head. I was like, so I was like, damn, that's crazy.
It made you quit.

Speaker 3 Made you quit your job.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it made me quit my job. I became a full-home bodybuilder.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 honestly, I tried to convince myself, nah, I love bodybuilding. It's nothing else.

Speaker 2 But honestly, if I'm being honest with myself, I'm pretty sure the drugs had a good little play in that, bro. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 Be crazy sometimes.

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 um but uh oh real quick story one time uh when i was getting ready to compete against andy actually um i was like

Speaker 2 two or three weeks out and you know i get a nasty death face like just horrible and you know how you walk around sluggish and you're not gonna smile to anybody i remember my boss pulled me aside he's like hey joe like

Speaker 2 You know, I've been giving you some complaints. Like people have been saying like, you look like you don't want to be here.
You just don't look happy and shit. I was like, bro, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 I literally told him, what the fuck? I was like, I'm getting my fucking job done. I was like, I'm not going to be fucking happy, dog.
I'm fucking starving.

Speaker 2 I was like, I have no energy to do this shit. I was like, I have to, I'm doing this job to be able to provide for

Speaker 2 myself and shit. I'm like, of course I'm not going to fucking smile.
What the fuck? He's like, yeah, I know. I know.
I get it. I get it.
But you think you tried to put on a smile? I was like, no.

Speaker 2 I was like, I was like, how the fuck does me smiling affect their day? I was like, get the fuck out of here. What was the job? I'll never forget that.
It was for a uniform company, Fentos.

Speaker 2 You ever heard of them? That's like a big white truck, blue letters. They deliver uniform rental clothes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So like you weren't like,

Speaker 1 it wasn't like one of those situations where like you're dealing with customers. Like you're, what is that called?

Speaker 1 Like you're like a waiter or something?

Speaker 2 Where you have to like put on. I was definitely dealing with customers.
No, I was.

Speaker 2 So my title is service sales representative. So I'd go change out uniforms, like mats on the floor, high demonics in the bathroom,

Speaker 2 put that in my truck,

Speaker 2 like swap everything out every week. And then these were like five volume customers.
So I was promoted to a pretty high volume route that brought in a lot of revenue for the company.

Speaker 2 So I had to carry myself in a certain manner. But when I'm in front of a customer, I'll be a little bit different.
I'll be more conscious about what I'm going over a large bill.

Speaker 2 So any little issues I have to like, you know, put on a face to be able to like

Speaker 2 pretty much convince them, like, look, we're fucking you, but it's okay.

Speaker 2 Like, that's pretty much how it felt. So, um, yeah, when that it was, it was kind of a serious role for me because of the amount of money those companies that I serviced brought in.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 but my competing never affected that. It was the people in the factory that would complain.
I'm like, who the fuck? Who the fuck these guys? Like,

Speaker 2 but yeah, it was a good job. I got promoted there like, I want to say four times before I left.
And I was, before I left, I was getting

Speaker 2 interviewed to become a, like one of the warehouse supervisors.

Speaker 2 But then I decided, like, I don't want to do this. I want to commit to bodybuilding.
And so I just pieced everyone out.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense.
For a second, I thought you were just scaring all the customers, which would make a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 No, but it was dope because I was like the biggest dude there.

Speaker 2 And when people would see me, because because sometimes like it would have me cover other routes. And I would walk into these people's accounts and shit.
They're like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 And then people would ask me, why are you here? Like, what are you doing this for? Look at you.

Speaker 2 And I was like, you know, I ask myself that all the time. So now when they see me, like some of the people follow me still and they, they're super happy for me.

Speaker 2 Some of my old coworkers follow me and they compliment or comment. on my posts and stuff, seeing some of the things I've achieved since I've been gone.

Speaker 1 Because they all thought it was dope that I was going to follow my dream and to see that it all kind of playing out yeah um that'll give me so much love for that that's awesome brother that's really dope yeah that actually just had me think of this a little tangent but um you know when i was in college i was in a fraternity and you know during those times especially when you're that young things are a little bit weird right like especially if you're in some kind of thing like a fraternity or a sorority probably don't feel like most of those people are your actual genuine friends But it's funny as we mature, a lot of us change.

Speaker 1 A lot of us grow older. A lot of us prioritize more things that are, I think,

Speaker 1 you just have different priorities. You know, you start understanding family, you start realizing connections are really important to you.

Speaker 1 And a lot of these guys ended up coming back and just like supporting me and being like, yo, I'm so proud to see that shit. So I'm sure you guys have both had a lot of that come your way as well.

Speaker 2 I'll speak for myself.

Speaker 2 I am so transparent and honest about this. I have never had really any hate growing up

Speaker 2 in my accomplishments and who I was. I've had a ton of love and support, and I'm so grateful and blessed to have that because I know not a lot of people don't.
They have a lot of hate.

Speaker 2 They don't have any backup or like backing for what their dreams are and stuff.

Speaker 2 From my family to certain friendships, I've lost friends.

Speaker 2 You know, I've lost certain people that didn't really believe in my vision, you know, but Nothing that truly like really messed me up to that point where I'm like, damn, like, I guess this is the reality.

Speaker 2 But I've, I've, uh, had a very, very like peaceful, loving upbringing when it came to this dream of mine that I've been pursuing.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what Andy's has been like, but it's been pretty dope for me. I'm not going to lie.
My awesome brother.

Speaker 3 Mine's been really good too. I haven't really had like any noticeable hate or doubt from peers or anything like that.

Speaker 3 I also think like YouTube, you guys live in a really big city where there's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 i'm like in a smaller city so i'm the only ibb pro in like the whole city um so i'm also like the only olympian so when i i remember when i turned pro there was like all these people that came out of the woodworks from my city who have like i've never met and they're like hey they come up to me in the gym hey bro congrats on turning pro you're putting you're putting fresno on the map we're also proud of you bro blah blah blah and then same thing at the olympia you know like they're like oh bro you made it to the olympia that's so awesome and it's just like i think because I have a smaller town and I live here, it's a lot more noticeable.

Speaker 3 Like, I feel the love from everyone. So almost every time I walk into the gym, it's like multiple people coming up to me who I don't know.
And they know me because it's such a small town, you know?

Speaker 2 So it's cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's awesome, man. That's really cool to hear you guys say that.

Speaker 1 Wish I could say the same, but you know, at least now you have a reference point. I could be really grateful now.

Speaker 1 I got to ask this though, because I heard, I don't even remember where I saw this, if it was online or if I like heard it on the podcast, but I'm curious about your journey starting off, even from the beginning, maybe even before bodybuilding started as you were a kid, because I heard you might have dealt with eating disorders.

Speaker 1 And I have a feeling that all of us clearly have this eating disorder with these bazookis and brownies.

Speaker 1 It's really Andy's fault though, honestly.

Speaker 2 That's funny as fuck. So yeah, I'll touch on that.

Speaker 2 So actually, it was on Dave Palumbo's podcast that was the first time i ever opened up about that

Speaker 2 it was the first time i ever felt like i had a voice because i just won something big right and so he put me on that platform so i thought it might help um

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 i was a fat kid growing up and you don't realize you're the fat kid until like

Speaker 2 one day like um all your friends are getting attention from these girls and no one wants you're like fuck what is it no i'm the fat fuck that's what it is no but um yeah i was a fat kid growing up and then i had to lose weight to play football in the Pop Warner League if I wanted to be able to play.

Speaker 2 That's ironic, right?

Speaker 1 Losing weight to play football.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 I was a big kid. Like, I give everybody this reference because I know this is a pretty like, holy shit number.
But in third grade, you're nine years old, right?

Speaker 2 I weighed 136 pounds. So, and I wasn't tall.
Shit. You know, so like

Speaker 2 most of my friends were 60, 70 pounds at that point. The heaviest kid before, like that I thought was chubby was like 80.
So I'm like, fuck, man, I'm really like that heavy.

Speaker 2 That was the first time I've ever been given a number that I understood was pretty up there.

Speaker 2 So when I played football for the first time in sixth grade, I was overweight, but I wasn't over the cap for the highest divisions.

Speaker 2 So when I was in sixth grade, I was playing with seventh and eighth graders. I was third string.
You know, I didn't start.

Speaker 2 Second year, I started, but I had to lose like, it was like 15 pounds to play that year.

Speaker 2 I did that. And then my eighth grade year, to be able to play again, I had to lose 30 pounds.
And it took me six weeks to drop 32 pounds. Six weeks.
I just fuck. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I've always been able to starve. Like, even although I was a fat kid, somehow I just like, I guess I didn't want to let my brother down.
and my mom because they really want to see me play football.

Speaker 2 And I was actually getting pretty good. You know, I started my second year.
I was going start um both ways plus special teams um that my eighth grade year

Speaker 2 and then yeah so i did that

Speaker 2 and so that was the first time i ever had to like diet yeah and all i knew was no carbs and a fuck ton of cardio and obviously it works you know i didn't know what calorie was i just ate a little and like ran a lot yeah

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 sounds like me.

Speaker 2 Going into high school, because I kind of had like a bit of a growth spurt bus, like I was working out essentially, playing football and stuff, not like true workouts, you know, like push-ups and shit here and there.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 I went into high school football. I was 175-pound freshman, but I was like somewhat muscular at this point.
I still had some fat on me, no, but I was a big kid. I started both ways.

Speaker 2 I was the team overall MVP for the, for the season. for my freshman football team.
I was a running back, been a linebacker.

Speaker 2 Started lifting weights my freshman year after the season, and I was stronger than anybody. Like, I was probably in the top three, and the other two were like big-ass linemen, pretty much.

Speaker 2 So, but I was able to bench two plates my freshman year. I was able to squat four

Speaker 2 overhead crash a plate and like squat four when you were like 13.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, no, freshman year, you're 15. You go 14 to 15, I think.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay,

Speaker 2 yeah, so freshman year, yeah, um, but yeah, I was able to squat four plates just for one, One, bro. That's fucking sick.
But that was enough for me. And then,

Speaker 2 but yeah, so

Speaker 2 my mom always told me, though, like, so now I was on the opposite side where she's like, Joseph, you need to, if you want to play with the big boys, you need to like be a big kid.

Speaker 2 So I said I started freshman year, overall MVP. Then they moved me up to varsity for the playoff games.
And I.

Speaker 2 I got to play with varsity a bit. Started varsity my sophomore year as a middle linebacker.

Speaker 2 But between freshman and sophomore year between lifting weights and my mom making sure i ate i had like a half a jar of peanut butter every night before going to bed with those little jiffy peanut butter

Speaker 2 i i should say not my mom would tell me she's like joseph eat this before bed like i was like okay

Speaker 2 i put on 30 pounds i went from 175 to 205

Speaker 2 from freshman to sophomore year

Speaker 2 and then uh was this a good 35 pounds uh

Speaker 2 it was uh it was pretty solid i'm not gonna lie like i was big i was strong because you're training hard at the same time time.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I was lifting.
I've always had my body has responded to lifting weights just quicker than anybody's. And

Speaker 2 again, I didn't even know, but eyesight understand like genetics, right? I didn't know what genetics were.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 so junior year

Speaker 2 or sorry, sophomore year after season, way into junior year, I broke my foot

Speaker 2 and I put on like another 15 pounds, but now I was fat. So

Speaker 2 I got really into my head okay so i broke my foot went into junior year played i was 230 pounds my junior year and i'm not gonna lie that was the easiest football season ever because when you're heavy like that you're somewhat athletic bro if you're a middle linebacker you're just destroying people like you're that's a big ass dude playing middle linebacker in high school

Speaker 2 But then I remember seeing a picture in the yearbook and my face looked fat as fuck and I didn't even realize it was me. I love what pictures of terrible.

Speaker 2 Bro, it was horrible. It wasn't like a picture picture.
It was like an off,

Speaker 2 like, uh,

Speaker 2 they just

Speaker 2 captured it. Like, you know, you know how to have those, like, those.

Speaker 2 So I was like, hey, who the fuck is that? I had like pimples right here and shit. I had a double shin.
Like, I was like, oh my fuck, that's me. What the fuck? It fucked me up to see myself like that.

Speaker 2 Cause that was the first time I got fat since I was a kid.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I was like, fuck this. I shit you not.
In eight weeks, I remember giving myself two months, I dropped 47 pounds.

Speaker 2 So I was working out three times a day, eating like hardly anything, but I was kind of like

Speaker 2 really like in good shape, like as fucked up as it sounds, like, but I was still weight training.

Speaker 2 So, your body doesn't just drop muscle like that, even though it's starved, because you're still giving it somewhat of a stimulus, even though the protein's not there.

Speaker 2 But yes, I obviously lost a lot of muscle still, too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 so I went from 230 down to like 185

Speaker 2 or 183 or something like that.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I went into that season. So that was like the start, like the introduction to the eating disorder.
Because now I'm just afraid of your fat.

Speaker 2 So then I tried to play middle linebacker and it was really hard. I was not used to being a lighter body anymore.

Speaker 2 So like. I had to really learn good techniques as a middle linebacker.
I couldn't just be brutally strong, like brutally strong and just run people over. So

Speaker 2 I ended up putting on back like 15 pounds, 20 pounds, to be able to play the position through the season.

Speaker 2 And then after that, I was like, I'm going to get in super good shape. I don't want to get fat.
I got all the way down like 160 pounds post-football season.

Speaker 2 I went to prom, I was 160 pounds compared to my 205-pound self.

Speaker 2 And then no one knew I was badly eating disorder then because now I'm just like terrified to eat food.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 even after high school, when people saw me, I dropped even farther. So I was 145 pounds.
Holy fuck.

Speaker 2 When I was like 18 going 19.

Speaker 2 But then

Speaker 2 an event happened in Las Vegas. I don't know if I've ever talked about this story, but it was in Las Vegas.
I love my family. I remember stepping on the scale before we left.

Speaker 2 I was 145 pounds, which is the lowest I've ever been.

Speaker 2 And I went to Las Vegas with my family. And there's these guys trying to sell their little CDs, their little mixtapes.

Speaker 2 And this black dude comes up to me and he is like, hey, listen to my next tape here, about $10, $10.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, thank you, man.

Speaker 3 Keep in mind, I'm off to do my family on the strip.

Speaker 2 He stops when I say no, thank you. He's like, hey, man, like, damn, just looking at you.
He's like,

Speaker 2 you're definitely one of those dudes that I would love to put on a dress and just have my fucking way with in prison, bro.

Speaker 1 Holy fuck.

Speaker 2 He's like, damn, man, I'd love to see you like that. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, I was embarrassed as fuck in front of my family, too.
My brothers were there and shit. It's fucking weird.

Speaker 2 I was kind of like, what the fuck? And I walked it off.

Speaker 2 We were going to a buffet and I shit you not. That's where, so I went from like just like anorexic style of eating disorder to the complete opposite.
And I just wouldn't stop eating.

Speaker 2 I gained eight pounds after that moment. Like I came back that Monday.
In two days, I gained eight pounds. I could not.
I eat took the threw up.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 but my body was funny at the beginning. It just got fucking like, it's like going from depleted to completely like maxed out full.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so I

Speaker 2 gained eight pounds that very first weekend, and that led to me gaining 80 pounds in three months. Oh my God.
And

Speaker 2 that was really harsh for my body.

Speaker 2 It caused me to lose my gallbladder. Holy shit.
I was eating such five fatty foods and it happened so fast. I developed gallstones.
So

Speaker 2 I had my gallbladder removed after that. But I I was battling an eating disorder for like two years trying to, I couldn't diet.

Speaker 2 So because every time you try to diet, your mind and body fuck with each other. They conflict and they think you're starving.
So you have to binge eat.

Speaker 2 So the only time I didn't binge eat is if I just allowed myself to eat whatever and that's it. Like don't think about it.
Just eat. And then eventually it just slowed down to stop.

Speaker 2 So I stayed 220 pounds for two years. to the point where I'd stopped thinking about food.
And then I was slowly able to learn about like nutrition in general and how macros work and how like

Speaker 2 how to instead of dieting like a bodybuilder, how to eat like an influencer, quote unquote, you know, like, oh, I can put this with this, kind of, all of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, flexible dieting. So I learned how to do that.
I learned about calories, learning about protein and a slight deficit, how cardio works with calorie play and all that shit.

Speaker 2 So that's where I learned all the stuff I learned. And then I was able to get in shape for the first time when I was 23.
But the main driving factor was I lost my dad and I was super depressed.

Speaker 2 So like with the eating disorder, losing my dad and all that stuff,

Speaker 2 it really took a toll on me. And then when I wanted to like fix my mental state, I wanted to work on my body because I knew it started there.

Speaker 2 So that's when I got in shape for the first time at 23 years old and pretty much became a bodybuilder at that point. Keep in mind, I never stopped working out.

Speaker 2 I always did some form of workout, whether it was lifting weights, I did insanity for a while, all these kind of things.

Speaker 2 But I always loved the bodybuilding thing, so I just stuck with that eventually. Yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah, man, it was rough.

Speaker 1 How close were you to, uh, how close were you to your dad?

Speaker 2 So, believe it or not, we actually like

Speaker 2 as much as it hurt when I lost him, we weren't that close at all. He was, uh, he used to work seven days a week, like 16-hour days.
So, I probably see him.

Speaker 2 He was diabetic, so that's why I lost him so early. But he was forced into retirement due to amputation of the legs and stuff.
So, he only stopped working because he had to, essentially. But

Speaker 2 he even went back. So they took one leg.
He went back to work, two jobs on one leg, just with a prosthesis. But then they started taking away from the other.
So he didn't want to lose both completely.

Speaker 2 So he decided to just walk away.

Speaker 2 No pun intended.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 then he was kind of more around. But then by that time, you know, I was with my ex who was my person at the time.
And I was just going out. I was growing up.
I was like 20 already, you know, 18, 20.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 he didn't know I was going through any of this eating shit either. I never told him.
I never spoke on it to my family. It was embarrassing.
But yeah, I lost my dad when I turned

Speaker 2 right before 22 years old. So I dealt with his loss at 22, pretty much, had a whole year, went to drinking and just fucking

Speaker 2 just going down a really bad path. And bodybuilding kind of like set me on the right one.
Yeah. But yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we were somewhat like close. I was his favorite son.
Like, I just was. He was, uh, I was the one that he wanted to show me off to everybody.

Speaker 2 He was super proud of and stuff, but we didn't have like a super close relationship.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm sure he would be incredibly proud now, bro.

Speaker 2 Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 It's actually, it's crazy you're doing the podcast today because today is actually

Speaker 2 literally the day he passed away, just 10 years later.

Speaker 1 It's crazy how that kicks you in the ass, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's moments like that that really like change your perspective on life and how you attack it.

Speaker 1 And sometimes I feel like it's a little bit sad that it

Speaker 1 sometimes almost requires something like that, you know?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 talked about that. It's crazy because

Speaker 2 things happen the way they're supposed to. That's what I've always believed.
And

Speaker 2 if it weren't for him

Speaker 2 being taken, I wouldn't be where I'm at.

Speaker 3 There was a path

Speaker 2 where I was doing the wrong ones first.

Speaker 2 One night I just completely lost it. Like all that hurt came out through alcohol and stuff.
Made a fool of myself at a party. The next day, I was so embarrassed.

Speaker 2 And the first thought to myself was like, damn, like, your dad's gone, and this is who you're becoming. Like, is this someone you would be proud of?

Speaker 2 Is this that boy that you would like to show off to people and talk so highly of? And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm better than this. He knows I'm better than this.
And I refuse to

Speaker 2 be this now that he's gone. I want, if, if I are to be able to meet him again, I want him to be able to be proud of the man I became.
So it's, it's cool to get rid of, bro. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, bro. Of course.
I feel like

Speaker 1 in a weird way,

Speaker 1 when my best friend Ryan passed away,

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 1 trying to remember how old I was. I was like around 22 years old.
Maybe, no, maybe 24. But

Speaker 1 it's weird, man. Afterwards, you know, it was tough, but

Speaker 2 I.

Speaker 1 feel like he was introduced into my life in order for me to learn and to realize a lot of the mistakes I was making. And a lot of those mistakes were just prioritizing some of the most wrong things.

Speaker 1 Because this guy was, um, I don't know anyone who's had a more

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 like catastrophic life than he did. Like, caught his mom, shot and killed when he was seven years old.
Um, was basically an orphan with his little brother and sister.

Speaker 1 His dad committed suicide when he was about 17, 18, and he went off to the military.

Speaker 1 Bro, went to jail in prison off in an accident and was supposed to be in prison for years, but the firefighting department asked him to work for them since he was so good in prison that during his time fighting, he saved a kid's life who

Speaker 1 tried to commit suicide by shooting himself in the head. And the kid ended up being the son of the head of the police department.
So Ryan gets a call randomly.

Speaker 1 in jail and he's like, instead of like having like five to ten years left in prison, he's like, you're going to be out in six months. And Ryan just falls to the ground crying.

Speaker 1 and um this guy has always been the most positive and good person selflessly

Speaker 1 even when we were living together

Speaker 1 it was me him and dion and i would just watch this guy do things for people even though you know we were busy you know and we sometimes were like focused on ourselves and like have a lot of work to do or something and stress out of our mind and both these guys had terrible credit scores because they were both in prison and fucking I had to carry the whole fucking team for that shit to find an apartment.

Speaker 1 And these guys were just like working to like get their records erased. and uh

Speaker 1 bro didn't matter man he he was just positive and working forward the entire time and then right before he passed away he made everything happen got the va to got 150k from the va got his whole record erased deon ended up doing the same thing

Speaker 1 and it was just inspiring to me to be like dude

Speaker 1 Maybe I should actually prioritize my connections with people rather than just like getting as many followers as possible and trying to prove myself to my parents or prove myself to people that always doubted me.

Speaker 1 Like maybe I should actually try to try to realize that these relationships matter and

Speaker 1 use that to propel me forward you know

Speaker 1 and uh yeah i don't know bro but anyways afterwards i feel like um i just became a different person i realized the podcast is something that i could do and it's something that i really want to and honestly everywhere that i like the place i'm in now i feel is all thanks to

Speaker 1 how good of a role model he was for me when he was alive and still to this day, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know uh one thing i've always said especially with all the experiences because nobody's experience is harsher than the other we all handle things in our own way some things are harder on some than others and vice versa but we all hurt the same you know and so

Speaker 2 i've always preached that god religious or not is what i believe right god gives his harshest hardest battles to his strongest warriors because he knows that that person is the example for those that aren't so strong.

Speaker 2 And so when they see somebody like yourself or me or Andy or whatever talk about these things and see that it wasn't always easy, but we got through it.

Speaker 2 And now we have like a, what do you call it, a spectrum deal speak on or a platform,

Speaker 2 it gives them hope that they can keep going. If they just keep going, they can make something of themselves or get through the hard times because that person did it.
Yeah. But

Speaker 2 yeah, not everybody,

Speaker 2 not everybody feels that they have a voice. So you can give them one through yours, you know, and your experiences.
And just it pass on

Speaker 2 that strength through your experience. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Andy, we need to get you some fucking pre-workout.

Speaker 2 I'm just listening. You guys are,

Speaker 3 I'm just here, bro. I'm just a fly on the wall.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 It's the middle of the day. It's the middle of the day, bro.

Speaker 3 I will say I did have a pretty good ass back day. And that was like at 10 a.m.
And I got home around like noon, had my post-workout meal. Now I'm sitting here.
Well, it also could be because

Speaker 3 I don't know if you guys saw, but I got my food up again. It's like 887 grams of carbs.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 2 This is the highest you've ever been, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Part of me thinks I'm like, am I tired? Or I'm like, nah, bro.
I think it's just the insulin constantly spiking.

Speaker 2 It's definitely what that is.

Speaker 2 Do you know? Because you have the best look at this time, but you honestly feel terrible because every time you eat, you feel that

Speaker 2 every fucking deal.

Speaker 1 You mean the best look, like this short out of the show?

Speaker 2 Because, yeah, dude, I was telling Andy the same thing.

Speaker 2 You look fucking dope when you're training, but then after you eat, everything is

Speaker 2 alive.

Speaker 1 I love that he's saying this because did I not just say the same shit when we were working out back day?

Speaker 2 I was like, dude, Andy looks like a fucking animal, dude. He looks so fucking crazy.
He's dope as fuck for that hour or two that you're training. Then the rest of the day, you feel terrible.

Speaker 1 Andy, are you running any like Slin or any like GDAs or anything like that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I take GDA before my pre-meal because it's like for my, before my pre- and post-meal, just because it's like 150 grams of carbs each.

Speaker 3 And then we are running 20 units Atlantis. We did that all last offseason too.

Speaker 3 But we just feel like it helps with the blood glucose and like obviously just like facilitating all the food properly versus just like when we're able to push the food up higher without getting as soft and that lantis helps a little bit even at just 20 units a day okay that's nice um did you ever was that ever a single variable that you guys changed so you were able to like see how much of an impact that introducing insulin was for you I think, well, it was this last prep is the first time we introduced it.

Speaker 3 And honestly, it's like Prop thinks we're able to keep the food higher throughout the whole prep and still get very, very lean.

Speaker 3 And he thinks Delantis honestly helped with that a lot.

Speaker 3 And the only thing we changed is as we got really close, I did start to go a little bit hypo

Speaker 3 just from being low body fat, low blood sugar, all that. So he's like, yeah, let's just bump this from 20 to 10 units just because

Speaker 3 we don't really need 20 units, especially if you're already peeled. So that was really it, though, to be honest.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay. You could tell who's 290 here just from the breathing,

Speaker 2 bro. So, I've been fucking, I watched, uh, I was on Fulon's podcast like last week or something like that, and I can hear myself breathing.

Speaker 2 I'm like, fuck, man, like, because I don't hear it until someone tells me something, or I'm listening to myself on camera. I'm like, God damn, I sound like I'm gonna die.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna die.

Speaker 3 I remember it's, it's so crazy how you're not really aware of it. And it sounds like you're just breathing normal.

Speaker 2 I remember

Speaker 3 I was in an Airbnb with two other athletes, two girls, like in 2024 for RAW. And they had flown us out or whatever.
And it was late at night.

Speaker 3 I was 260 at the time. It was the heaviest I ever got.
And I was in the kitchen late at night, cooking my meals, prepping them for the next day. And I remember it was kind of late.

Speaker 3 Following morning, you know, we all wake up. We're headed out to the warehouse or whatever.
And one of the girls is like, hey, I couldn't sleep last night. You were being too loud.

Speaker 2 I was like, what?

Speaker 3 Like, I wasn't being very loud. I don't think.
She's like, No, it was your breathing. I was like, I was in the kitchen just cooking my thing.
What do you mean?

Speaker 3 She's like, No, we could all hear you breathing. I was like, God, damn, that's not good.
Just like huffing and puffing, just cooking my meal. Just

Speaker 2 you know, it's dope, though. I've been,

Speaker 2 I've been up to 300 pounds since 2023. I'm 284 right now,

Speaker 2 but um, I'm not, I'm on TRT right now, so I'm like 10 pounds off what I should be wearing.

Speaker 2 But I, uh, I've been this heavy long enough to where I feel pretty normal. I know that sounds fucking wild because I've always wondered what, like, how people walk around like this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when you get there, it's so much different than when you've been there. Like, so,

Speaker 2 um, yeah, your body does tend to feel like my, yeah, I feel like my 220-pound self, like how I move and stuff.

Speaker 2 The only thing that I really feel my weight is trying to turn in bed. So, I'm trying to move for like 280 pounds into a circle, like trying to turn.

Speaker 2 But I, oh and then putting my shoes on still sucks that that never not sucks

Speaker 2 i like my ass just fine you know like i i in the shower i've adapted to whereas i mean i can only reach like that far yeah but you know like you can use a stick or whatever the fuck yeah yeah

Speaker 2 i feel pretty normal like i've been this for so long i breathe heavy as fuck when i'm like sometimes i look at like my side profile i don't know how i breathe sometimes it's like crazy fucking thing when my neck's all like that i'm just like

Speaker 2 so i understand why i breathe breathe so heavy, but I feel fine. I guess I got my blood work done.
My blood work's really good. Yeah.
What are the exciting stuff?

Speaker 1 What are the cholesterol levels in your what's what's what are the cholesterol levels in your blood pressure at right now?

Speaker 2 Oh, I have to look at the fucking thing, but it's like as far as being out of range, it's only like just a couple of points above. I got my, I got my uh

Speaker 2 my blood work done

Speaker 2 it would be five weeks. No,

Speaker 2 week six post rebound.

Speaker 2 So I was off for about six weeks before I finally tested it.

Speaker 2 So for where they're at, my liver anxiety were kind of high, but it's like in that range where it's like, it's going to be high because I'm a bodybuilder, but not dangerous.

Speaker 1 How many days off did you take before you got the blood work done?

Speaker 2 Three days. So like my kidney numbers were good.
My creatine was low and all that stuff. Blood levels were low.
I hated it.

Speaker 2 I felt great when I went back to working out.

Speaker 3 You know what's crazy, Joe, is that I'm going to get lab work done here in a little bit. And if it comes back good, we're going to push for a little bit longer.
But obviously, it's like the protocol.

Speaker 3 It's like, you got to take all these days off training and all this stuff. Otherwise, the kidney markers will be skewed and all this, the creatinine, and all that.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 I was talking to my boy who has a lot more knowledge than me. He's like, bro, just do a cystatin C test, which I've done before.
And then for the liver, do a GGT test.

Speaker 3 And essentially, with the cyastatin C test, it's going to have more accurate kidney markers versus like uh egfr

Speaker 3 that is skewed by like age by race by uh a whole lot of different things um oh by muscle mass so obviously if a bodybuilder gets their egfr tested and their kidney function like it's going to obviously be lower or

Speaker 3 so it'll it'll be skewed by all these things so a cystatin c test is like the highest um possible quality test you can get and the most accurate.

Speaker 3 And then the GGT test is the same, but for the all, both the liver enzymes, AST and AOT. So he's like, you don't even need to take any days off the gym because those numbers aren't skewed.
So

Speaker 1 nice.

Speaker 3 I saved myself, I'm going to take one day off. I'll just go after a rest day, but the training is so good right now.
I'm like, I don't want to take three days. I can't do it.
I know.

Speaker 1 I know, bro. I have a problem with that.
I've always taken at least one day off. I just got my blood work done last week, right? I showed you right i told you

Speaker 1 um and um

Speaker 1 i did it right after a hard leg day

Speaker 1 whatever i don't care ridiculous yeah um as t and lt not so great 68 131

Speaker 1 probably could have been better yeah i wonder what it would have been without leg day but um

Speaker 2 yeah i guess i'm being as heavy as i am i i thought it was really important that i took those three days because it's I honestly needed it too.

Speaker 2 I've been beating my body up for like six months straight.

Speaker 2 So to have three days back to back, I honestly felt pretty amazing. I bet Monday.
I bet. Yeah, bro.
Like

Speaker 3 after the Olympia, I took five days off, cardio, training, everything. And I got blood work done.
Oh, see, I didn't do that. Yeah.
I just was like, I'm going to get lab work done Friday.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I'm going to just take the whole week off because I was like you. I'm like, I did six shows.
I'm like, I'm just going to give my body rest.

Speaker 3 As much as I want to train, I know my body needs it. And I swear by the fifth day, I felt better.

Speaker 3 I was like, I could probably take another five days off, and I'll just keep feeling better and better the more time I take off. I didn't lose any fullness or anything.

Speaker 3 By the time I got back in there, I was like ready to go.

Speaker 2 You know, Dexter Jackson was known for taking six weeks off post-Olympia. Bro, all of these fucking do that.

Speaker 1 All of these 90s guys.

Speaker 2 Bro, yeah, Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman said he was crazy.
He would take 12 weeks off. Three months, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Kevin Lavroni would take six months off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Kevin Lavroni thing is still crazy to me, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know, but see, the Kevin Lavroli thing, that's what I tell everybody, like, yes, he did that, but like, he got huge and then did that.

Speaker 2 Like, I feel like when you're chasing that size, like, you can't handle what you're there,

Speaker 2 yeah, then you're you just have muscle memory, and he comes back in like even six weeks. So, like, yeah, I understand how he did it, but there's no way he did that going up.

Speaker 2 There's no way, real quick, guys.

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Speaker 3 What are your guys's opinion on like the 90s guys or even like the 2000s guys? They're like, oh, we came off everything completely. There was no TRT.
There was no 200 rigs a week.

Speaker 3 It was come off, come off everything, cold turkey, reset the receptors, all this. And in theory, it kind of does make sense.

Speaker 3 But also, like, with all the knowledge you have now, it's like, in my opinion, if you're going to come off for eight weeks and you're going to like take HTG, clone it, all these things to turn your natural testosterone back on, like the moment it gets back on, you're going to start.

Speaker 3 You're going to get right back on cycle and just turn it off again. It's like, you may as well just stay on, to be honest.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 yeah. Everybody, look at this.

Speaker 1 Look how sick this is. I showed Andy this.
I haven't shown anyone else in the world this yet.

Speaker 2 I told you, I

Speaker 1 told you I was natty when we were lifting back day.

Speaker 2 You're like, nah, you probably still have some of those orals in there. No, I had nothing in there.

Speaker 1 191. Hold on, look at, let's look at the little graph just because the graph makes it look.

Speaker 2 Can you do that?

Speaker 2 That little red under there?

Speaker 1 They're like, bro, you need to show worse than gold man.

Speaker 3 You need a shot of test right now.

Speaker 1 I was doing HCG and then I thought I was feeling great, you know, and all this shit. And then I started to realize, like, damn, I hit chess four days ago, and it is sore as fuck.

Speaker 1 I'm like, what is going on?

Speaker 2 It's a little weird.

Speaker 1 And I started feeling a little bit more depressed in the mornings, but not that much. The mental thing was not a big change.

Speaker 1 And then I got this number back and I'm like, all right, I'm going to jump back on test.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's literally not healthy for it to be that low, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I watched a podcast with Dave Palumbo and Jay Cutler, and I do believe they came off.

Speaker 3 I really do.

Speaker 2 However,

Speaker 2 like Andy said, like

Speaker 2 to go through that dip to see it back to a set point, then to go from there, like, I don't know if I've, I've had zero problems with growing on the doses that I have by staying on TRT and then going back up to the blasting number.

Speaker 1 And your TRT is like 200 to 250, right?

Speaker 2 At this point, so in the beginning, it was 200 when I was smaller, Joe. Now it's 500 bigger joe now it's 300.
okay is at 300. got it

Speaker 2 that's some real

Speaker 2 i have heard it's funny though i am not name dropping nobody but yeah their theirs is at 500 and i'm like because i used to ask them okay so unless you achieve a certain level of muscle mass which now that i'm seeing my my trt look doesn't look super TRT anymore, but it is.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, okay, that's because I've stayed a little leaner this time around and i have a certain level of muscle mass okay

Speaker 2 but some of these other guys i would tell paul like dude they're like how the fuck does he look like this and he's like not on

Speaker 2 then i find out their trt is like 500 like no fucking way like that's now makes sense to me that's nuts bro what the fuck that's crazy oh yeah that was my blast last year

Speaker 1 see i mean there was also five there was also 400 primo but that was yeah that was my blast last year so that's wait or maybe the year before i don't know anyways yeah, we're back with TRT.

Speaker 1 So 150 test, we're not going to put up with this shit. But

Speaker 1 regarding your question, I totally, I 100% believe that they came off, but only because they didn't have

Speaker 1 the culture those days was not backing TRT, right? There wasn't really like TRT those days.

Speaker 2 They didn't really drum.

Speaker 1 I mean, there were some cruises, but I don't know how prevalent. I don't know when the cruise became popular in the forums.
I feel like that was more in like the 2000s or something.

Speaker 1 But before then, I think

Speaker 1 my personal opinion is no matter what you're doing, whether you're coming off completely or you're coming off and dropping down to like a TRD dose or like a cruise, it's still better than just running year-long all the time, no matter what.

Speaker 1 I always think it's going to be better. And it's not just because of your blood markers, but it's also just like, I really do believe there's a, there's a tolerance.

Speaker 1 And it's not that your receptors downregulate, but it's more of just like everything desensitizes to a certain point, no matter what you're taking, whether it's Adderall, whether it's some kind of recreational drug, whether it's a medication, you know you you build a tolerance and sometimes you have to titrate up the dose to like a certain level but no matter what whenever you come off and you jump back on after a long period of time it always hits and it's always like the uh the amount of benefits that you get versus the disadvantages is always a a higher ratio when you're jumping back on right so do you think those benefits would

Speaker 3 do you think those benefits would be even greater if you actually did come off like no trt came off completely for say three months by the the time you jump back on 500 megs of test i feel like it would be a crazy difference so like i see the theory it makes sense but i also am like why would anyone want to come off completely and like have their test levels in the dirt all these things like that's not necessarily healthy either so what i believe is if you have the genetics to bounce back with a pct and have like a really high in reference range test level if you have those genetics then you would probably be better off coming off completely uh Uh, but if you don't, which most of us will take some time, sometimes it takes up to even three months on ACG just to get your balls back running to a decent, efficient level, or at least the max level that you could.

Speaker 1 If some of us are like that, which I believe that I fucking would be taking that long, then it's probably way better to just jump on TRT because, like, I think

Speaker 1 there's like a what is it called? I'm trying to think of the phrase, but um,

Speaker 1 the change is negligible, right?

Speaker 1 Like, how much you drop down from being at a low natural testosterone level and then you come back up. A lot of that is going to be like muscle memory that you're recovering, right?

Speaker 1 A lot of that is like, um, that's why you see a lot of these guys maybe blow up when they jump back on tests is because they also just deflated when they were off of it.

Speaker 1 Versus if you're on TRT and you're jumping back on a I feel like the difference is pretty damn negligible.

Speaker 2 It's about the same in my opinion.

Speaker 1 Unless your genetics fare better for one side.

Speaker 3 I can see that too. And it's very similar to like post-show.

Speaker 3 Like, I feel feel like if you're running a blast post show or if you're just on a cruise you get so huge and in in your mind you're like am i actually growing tissue or am i just regaining the tissue that i potentially lost or the fullness that i lost from being in a deficit on prep for so long you know yeah right i would say that uh if you are someone whose genetics

Speaker 1 If you're someone whose genetics isn't prone to having a high natural test level and it's going to take you a while to bounce that back out, bounce that back after your cycle is over, it's definitely not worth it.

Speaker 1 And it's better to jump on TRT1 because of the

Speaker 1 mental roller coaster that you're going to be going through, and then also having a lower testosterone level below reference range is going to be more unhealthy for a lot of your markers, anyways.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. It's better for you to be in a good reference range of testosterone, not just for your mental health, but also for your blood markers.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 I believe instead of like, you know, like when you come off completely, you're going to lose muscle tissue.

Speaker 2 So you can't hold on to all that muscle tissue that your testosterone at this level helped you achieve. So, because I've done the PCT thing just one time.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 One time, literally, and it was horrible. I had my strength, my, my strength went fucking trash for like a good two weeks and then started picking up once my natural test got back.

Speaker 2 But I lost, I never got back to that peak blasting strength. And

Speaker 2 I definitely lost some of the size that I achieved as well.

Speaker 2 And I mean, I saw such a big sword, it wasn't a crazy strength dip, but I remember being able to do the 150s for like 12 reps on dumbbell incline.

Speaker 2 And the heaviest I was able to go before going back on was 140 for eight. That's how much of a strength dip I lost.
Gotcha. And I was like, I ain't never doing this shit again.

Speaker 2 So being on TRT,

Speaker 2 I maintained my strength and size. I lost a little bit of the stamina, you know, but I was able to hit my peak numbers, you know.

Speaker 2 So I never lost, I never dipped.

Speaker 2 So I'll go, okay, so if you mean to tell me I'll go into a healthy test range, ride that out for a bit, keep everything that I just had without that extra little bit of inflation, you know,

Speaker 2 then when I go back on, it's just like, that's for my base, and I'll just grow from there. Then I'd rather do that, you know, so it just makes more sense.

Speaker 2 Why, why have to lose to the Uniocygo, get it back, and then start growing from there eventually? So, it just

Speaker 2 brought goals. I know

Speaker 1 we have a lot of valuable anecdotes now of people doing that and being extremely successful, anyways, these days.

Speaker 1 Like your buddy Jordan Hutchinson and also Terrence Ruffin, all going on lower doses, TRT doses, and then coming back up and then exploding out of that. So, I think we're chilling.

Speaker 3 I was going to say, too, like, even on TRT, like, I still keep pretty good fullness and I can still get a pretty nasty pump in the gym versus like, I've came off completely once before as well.

Speaker 3 This was probably like in 2020, I think, during COVID when all the gyms closed. I was like, I may as well just come off.
I think I came off for like 12 weeks. Bro, it was terrible.

Speaker 3 Like, it didn't matter how much I ate, how hard I tried to train. It's just like, there's no pump.
There's nothing happening.

Speaker 1 There's nothing.

Speaker 2 It's so bad, bro.

Speaker 2 It's getting sad.

Speaker 1 I'm not recovering

Speaker 3 it's the gym keeps me from being depressed so when i went to the gym would it make me more depressed well also not to mention like the mental side effects like even if you probably kept your same exact physique test being in the dirt and being off cycle like you will get depressed your hormones are all out of whack so it's like low sex low sex drive like all these things they come into play so yeah it's not

Speaker 1 experienced i listen to stoicism videos in the morning and i have to like i have to uh work extra hard not to be depressed when I'm at 191 total test. I have to work extra fucking hard.

Speaker 1 And then when I jump back on TRT, it's just like it happens for me. Sometimes I don't even have to try, you know?

Speaker 2 You just feel good. Like, I feel confident and shit.
Like, damn, this is where it's at. You feel confident, healthy as shit right now.

Speaker 2 Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 Test is best for all the nanny homies.

Speaker 1 I want to ask,

Speaker 1 because you were,

Speaker 2 did you,

Speaker 1 how do I phrase this? Joe, is there anything that you have to be like adherent of or conscious of um regarding the fact that your dad had did he have type one or type two diabetes?

Speaker 2 What's the one that you yeah, I think it's type two, right? Where you you're not born with it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, it's not yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 um, well, he he didn't need insulin, he's just his blood sugar was crazy high, so but he needed insulin towards the end of his life.

Speaker 3 Like, it got really bad.

Speaker 1 Do you,

Speaker 1 have you ever checked your genetics?

Speaker 1 I'm assuming that you may have, do you have like a

Speaker 1 higher risk predisposition to get into that?

Speaker 2 I'm sure I do, but my blood glucose number is really good. Okay, that's sick.
Yeah. Yeah.
I um I was pre-diabetic when I was depressed in 22.

Speaker 2 And I was

Speaker 2 when I was 22 years old, that I would drink all the time, all those high sugar things. Plus, I had the binge eating disorder.
So all that sugar

Speaker 2 got me to pre-diabetes. I lost it all when I lost all that weight and I got into shape and it never came back.
So

Speaker 2 yeah, I was definitely able to get diabetes like pretty easily, I think. Okay.
But again, I was doing some extreme shit. Yeah.
So

Speaker 2 what would you say you're doing? I got rid of of it right away.

Speaker 1 It's kind of funny, too, how it's like, you know, bodybuilding is so extreme, but the most extreme shit that you did was honestly just the eating disorder before you bodybuilded.

Speaker 2 And now you have better. I understand how, yeah.
I, okay, look, this is by no means me justifying the use of PEDs. Like,

Speaker 2 but I truly believe food is a driving factor for most of the health issues that we all get. We are trying to be real heavy and shit.
Like, there's nothing healthy about that.

Speaker 2 However, this is why you get your blood tested. You keep your blood pressure in check.
Like, you're not eating so many cheap meals to drive up all that shit, you know? And

Speaker 2 I can definitely say when I was pushing the 300 pounds, I can see why people get really scared to be an open bodybuilder because the way you feel, just trust me, you're not healthy.

Speaker 2 What I look like right now,

Speaker 2 this big version of me, I'm not pushing my weight. Like, this is me chilling.
How much are you weighing right now?

Speaker 2 284? Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 Still,

Speaker 2 I was pushing it three. Yeah, but it's crazy because, um, again, the food, eating 8,000 calories calories to get 300 pounds is not easy to do.
And it's not good on your body. Like,

Speaker 2 so that's, that's how much I had to eat at a certain point. Now I'm eating like 5,200, 5,500, and I'm just chilling right where I'm at.
So I'm not pushing my body in extremes.

Speaker 3 Jod, when you were pushing at 300 for the first time, I think this was after you won Mr. USA.
It was like right before your pro-day abuse, like the heaviest you got.

Speaker 3 Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe it was someone else, but I remember you, I think it was you saying that you had to eat mcdonald's every night

Speaker 2 every single night it was mcdonald's that's what i it was so i did uh i did that cheat meal uh there was a guy it's on my my page where he asked me what my favorite cheat meal was that's my mcdonald's order like the two double quarter pounders um i didn't have him throw in the sometimes i would do 10 mcnuggets um three cookies a large fry sometimes two large fries make four

Speaker 2 diets and pepper let's go

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 1 Reducing oxygen.

Speaker 2 When you're trying to get 300 pounds, bro, whatever the fuck. Whatever the fuck you gotta do.
But I remember, I remember telling Paul this because he was because I was strong as fuck, man.

Speaker 2 Like just moving numbers that Paul eventually couldn't keep up anymore. He's like, what the fuck, dog? I was like, I'm telling you, bro, the McPump is fucking real.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And one day he fucking got a McPump.

Speaker 2 No, bro. I believe it.

Speaker 2 I'm telling you, bro.

Speaker 1 That's how Martin Fitzwater won Prague.

Speaker 2 Boss, yeah,

Speaker 1 boss changed his his pump up and gave him some mcdonald's fries

Speaker 2 bro it's the sodium you know like sodium is good martin for big ass dudes martin actually did salt free though that's the crazy thing he no he did salt free he did no no he did salt free but then he he measured it after the fact he measured no he still put the same amount of sodium he just tried to make sure that it was measured so he knew exactly what was going in oh see in terms of salt water you know yeah Yeah, but I swear, at least to the best pumps, and then like, depending on, like, I think the night before, obviously like a morning lift, like say you do that big ass cheat meal I just said, that put a pre-workout meal and then train like 10, 11 in the morning, like you're going to have a really good fucking workout.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's what it would do.

Speaker 3 I'm not going to lie to you. I'm getting hungry, bro.
I want some McDonald's fries right now.

Speaker 2 Mr. 800 grams of carbs this year.
Insulin's dropping.

Speaker 3 It's not enough. It's not satiating, bro.
Cream of rice and jasmine rice and sourdough. It's not satiating enough.
I need like, it's not.

Speaker 2 I need two double quarters.

Speaker 3 What's your order?

Speaker 2 I need your order, bro.

Speaker 3 That's, that's what I need.

Speaker 1 880 grams of carbs ain't satiating enough. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 We got a bunch of fat boys on this pod, bro. Bro, okay.
You know how Jake Culler always talks about thousands,

Speaker 2 thousand grams of carbs daily on his diet. So

Speaker 2 you're a big dude. You got muscle.
Like he had a very low fat diet. That's how Aceto did it for him.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So when your carbs are that high, your protein, his protein was only around like, I think he said like 310, 330 or something like that.

Speaker 2 It's actually pretty doable, like, to put that down because it doesn't, you don't stay full very long. It's because there's no fat slowing down your digestion.

Speaker 3 That's literally exactly. My fats are only at 64, and that's like the highest they're going to get.
And it's just nothing. I see like people that are like

Speaker 3 way smaller or even females and they post their diet and they're like 60, 70 fats a day. And I'm like, that's 64.

Speaker 2 64. Man,

Speaker 2 mine is 75 grams.

Speaker 3 Jesus, which is low for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's like, but it keeps me hungry.
It's the lower the fat intake for my body is always, that's why I've been staying so lean.

Speaker 2 And so even on my, even on my, every, every Saturday, I have a cheat meal with my wife and I take it away. So there's two beef meals in my plan.
They're 90, 10 beef.

Speaker 2 I don't eat those two meals and that replace gets replaced with a cheat meal. And I have no added fats in my other meals that day.
So that balance stays.

Speaker 1 You, you use a, You mentioned in the pod that you use insulin too, at least right now, right?

Speaker 1 Like, do you think that's probably one of the biggest things that it's helping you maintain healthy blood sugar levels?

Speaker 2 Come on me. You're you, Joe.
Yeah. I don't use insulin.
Oh, not that I haven't used insulin since. I haven't used insulin since when I got fear of house

Speaker 2 with

Speaker 2 2023. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't, I hard, I've only used insulin twice.
Did you use humilog?

Speaker 2 Humolog, yeah.

Speaker 3 See, I want to,

Speaker 3 yeah, I kind of want to experiment with it because I'm already eating so much. I'm like, bro, if you want to throw a muffin on my back day and I'll throw a little

Speaker 2 humalog in there, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I think I just want a muffin.

Speaker 2 A muffin humilog combo is crazy. I just love, I just loved humilog because it was around training, right? So you have your pre-intra host, and so those three meals together, like, or

Speaker 2 that time frame, it's all you got to worry about. The other meals to

Speaker 3 so like i'm curious uh what is your guys's opinion like if you have a lagging body part right and you have one cheat meal a week do you usually train the lagging body part then eat the cheat meal that night after or do you eat the cheat meal the night before you train the lagging body part

Speaker 1 or may i ask first yeah you answer first

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 I believe.

Speaker 2 So there's, okay, here's the train of thought, right? The carbs you ate that that day are going to help you for the workout tomorrow, right?

Speaker 2 So for me, you're in offseason, you're going to have enough food already. Yeah.
And though that the day before. So that kind of kills that thought to me.

Speaker 2 But when you train, if you save that cheat meal for that day, I'm pretty fucking hungry after training. So I can throw down some calories when there's no real limit to what I can do or eat.

Speaker 2 So I've always believed in. the day you train that muscle.

Speaker 3 So after the workout.

Speaker 2 Like leg days. So after the workout.
So remember I told you normally after leg days, that's when I have my big cheat meals, and I'm expending the most calories that day for me for my legs.

Speaker 2 So, that's what I've been doing. I agree.
That's that's my belief.

Speaker 2 Just because you're in an off-season now, if it's prep and you're trying to get the most out of that line body part, it's the opposite.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the

Speaker 2 refeed day the day before is going to benefit you more the day after.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. Yeah, I'm on par with that too.
Plus, it's a fucking reward, bro.

Speaker 2 Fuck yeah, bro. It's a reward.

Speaker 1 Think about that.

Speaker 2 Mentally doing late day. I've been like,

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 1 fuck. I'm going to get a fucking double double from In-NOUT and shit.

Speaker 3 Hey, Niall, are you going to Nationals or are you going to be out of the country still?

Speaker 1 Wait, what?

Speaker 3 I said, Nile, are you going to Nationals or are you going to be out of the country still?

Speaker 1 Nationals?

Speaker 3 Like NPC Nationals in Dallas, December 10th to the 15th or December 15th, 14th or 15th?

Speaker 1 I'll be back, but I'm probably not going to be making it to Nationals. Probably also be like five days' recovery from my transplant.

Speaker 2 So sad.

Speaker 3 So sad. Me and Joe are both going to be there.
We could have had like a

Speaker 3 YouTube sushi movie.

Speaker 2 Oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 I mean, I am going to Japan, so I'll just Snapchat y'all some sushi and shit. Oh, you can live vicariously through me.

Speaker 1 Oh, I want to ask,

Speaker 1 fuck, was it? How many grams of carbs are you eating, Joe, for your off-season?

Speaker 2 It's about like, it's about like 600 right now.

Speaker 2 Fucking eating less than Andy is crazy. How much do you normally eat, though?

Speaker 2 Like, Andy's,

Speaker 2 Andy's super lean. Like,

Speaker 2 I've been able to

Speaker 2 get big on not that much food. That 8,000, like, so I just talked about this with my Tenni partner.
Like,

Speaker 2 food needs to be metabolized, meaning that your metabolic rate works even harder when you're eating that much food. So it's almost like.

Speaker 2 It's not really counterproductive, but that 8,000 isn't a true 8,000 at a certain point because you're so big you're digesting constantly so your body's constantly burning so you're it's you're putting in more food but expending more at the same time so that's why it becomes so great like 8 000 is not a true 8 000.

Speaker 2 but anyways

Speaker 2 yeah i've been able to grow or maintain my weight in a pretty low number and then but i suffer on the way down So like when I get ready for a show, my food's pretty damn low.

Speaker 2 I don't get to get away with a bunch of high carbohydrates and shit. Like, I remember

Speaker 2 talking on the podcast about my carb up for my show. I only had like 250 grams of carbs for the stage.
Like, I didn't carb up hardly at all.

Speaker 2 So, like,

Speaker 2 geez,

Speaker 1 250 for the carb is crazy.

Speaker 3 Bro, you're someone who like the size, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's nuts. You and I are almost the same fucking person, like, same background, same upbringing, same, like, uh, eating disorders.
Literally, I, uh, when I was

Speaker 1 same eating, I was like, obese at 12, and then I fucking like two, like two months later, I just starved myself and I lost 40 pounds in less than two months.

Speaker 1 I have like pictures on Instagram that people have seen. It's a similar thing where I'm just like, I'm super fat, and then all of a sudden I'm super skinny, but I was training the entire time.

Speaker 1 Same shit. And like, for me, I bulk on like 400 to 500 grams of carbs max.
I've never exceeded 500 in an offseason.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 that's the thing. Like, obviously, I had to, but again, it was like, I was trying to put on a lot of fucking size very fast.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's why I put on that 20 plan to stage weight. But at the same time, I haven't had to do that since, but I haven't had to try to get heavier.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So now do extreme shit to get your body to do things it's never done.

Speaker 3 With your guys's food being like that, obviously you guys just like follow the plan that your coach sends you. But do you think your guys'

Speaker 3 carbs, or especially you, Niall, like you said, your peak off season is like 400 or 500 carbs?

Speaker 3 Do Do you think if you experimented going like, say, 600, 700, that you would just get too soft?

Speaker 1 I get soft very fast, but I haven't upped the doses yet.

Speaker 1 My highest has been 600 tests. So,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 I don't know, Mandy, your numbers sounded pretty juicy, so I bumped those shit up.

Speaker 2 Honestly, the saving grace for me, and I hate to promote fucking drugs, but GH

Speaker 2 staying in play year-round

Speaker 2 is a real game cheater for someone like me my physique stays tight i i stay a lot leaner when i'm running some dosage of it throughout the year so like i never truly come off it but i'll go to a low maintaining dose

Speaker 2 like uh uh right now for the longest it was always two or three i use when i'm off of uh like blasting or whatever when i'm cruising it's two to three now it's at four at this point in my career because of my size.

Speaker 2 But then it goes up to 10 when I'm blasting.

Speaker 2 And by just keeping that in my system year-round, whether it's low or push me higher, has definitely helped me stay a lot tighter and

Speaker 2 keep the look that I have.

Speaker 3 I feel like it's actually going to be easier for you to stay tighter with how heavy you are and how much muscle you have now.

Speaker 3 Even at 284, if you're managing to get like 8,000 to 10,000 steps a day, that's so much energy expenditure that it's like your food is going to have to be high just for your weight to be right there, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, bro, you're a fucking animal. Seeing you in person is crazy, dude.

Speaker 2 People don't understand.

Speaker 1 Seeing in person is different.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 It's a trip when you have a big dude saying, dude, you're fucking huge.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 Well, for devil's advocate for the audience, because I feel like some people would probably be like, oh, shit, well, you're running GHE around. What about like insulin sensitivity?

Speaker 1 What about your blood sugar? But I remember you talking on one podcast about how you only inject like once a day now, right? Two?

Speaker 2 So I've always done. Okay, sorry.
In the beginning, I did the split. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How many splits?

Speaker 2 Three or two.

Speaker 2 It depended. If it was the lower, like right now, I did it in one shot.
But if it was the higher end, I would do it in two morning and then for my last meal or right before bed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Most of the time, it was right before bed. But now I just, if it's fucking 10 I use or it's five or four, whatever, I do it all right before bed.
Damn. Wow.

Speaker 3 It's so it's interesting because I feel like it's like in prep, do you switch it? Like for the fat burning?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 Okay. I've done that, but then I was like, I hate

Speaker 2 hitting myself all the fucking time and then trying to remember it. So I just, whatever I can keep consistent, like and constant.
that I can stick to, I do it.

Speaker 2 So right before bed seems to just be like the easiest way for me to do it.

Speaker 2 And then sometimes the higher dosage of GH, like the 10 I use, if I do that first thing in the morning all at once, I get tired as fuck to start my day. So it just helps at night.

Speaker 2 You want to feel tired at night, right? So that's kind of why I started doing it.

Speaker 1 I mean, low-key also, it helps, you know, if you're, if you're continuously,

Speaker 1 if you're, I don't know, I can't remember any of the phrases right now because I'm not smart enough. But if you continuously stimulate and you continuously inject GH,

Speaker 1 it,

Speaker 1 is it somatostatin that I'm thinking about? Completely, it continuously suppresses that.

Speaker 1 So at any point, you know, your natural GH production is going to be really low and it really fucks up your insulin sensitivity long term.

Speaker 1 So it's a lot easier for bodybuilders to get their blood sugar to keep fucking rampant upwards as their off-season continues with the higher frequency of GH injections.

Speaker 1 But there's also some benefit to that because, you know, some people want to like raise their GH in the IGF-1 post-workout, or some one of them, they want to increase their GH for fasted cardio in the morning to burn more fat.

Speaker 1 You know, there's just, but I mean, that's the coolest thing.

Speaker 1 It's like, I think you're one of the first people that I've heard that's like as fucking accomplished as you are, that is now just doing single daily doses, which means that like I think you would not have to take any breaks off of GH as much as someone who's injecting, say, three times a day.

Speaker 1 It's normally a good idea to take breaks some point. That's what Dobbin Super Slice said.

Speaker 3 So, do you guys inject intramuscularly or sub-Q most of the time for GH?

Speaker 2 I do. I do it intramuscular.

Speaker 1 I do sub Q before bed. I do IM in the morning if I'm trying to do facet cardio.
But I had a convo my last podcast with Dr. Dean.

Speaker 1 Honestly, we kind of just and he decided to make some posts after we'd had the podcast on his platform and posted the studies that there's really hardly any difference for the area under the curve.

Speaker 1 It's just a faster spike, but in terms of actual absorption, there isn't as much of a difference, which is a little bit of a

Speaker 1 it's a little bit opposing to Kurt's perspective because from whatever Kurt studied, he was stating that maybe about 30% of your GH is lost through intramuscular injections. But I think Dr.

Speaker 1 Dean's post kind of made a lot of sense to me, honestly.

Speaker 3 So I could see the difference with like the release time and the curve, like you said.

Speaker 3 The only difference I noticed is I usually go sub-Q, like in the abdominals,

Speaker 3 but I'm starting to get paranoid just from breaking the skin over and over and over.

Speaker 2 I'm like,

Speaker 3 not that, not that I have like, I don't have any lumps or scar tissue yet,

Speaker 3 but like, especially in our division, well, shit, Joe's too, like, I don't want to have like, I don't want to hit an ab thigh and there's a bunch of scarb tissue and lumps.

Speaker 1 You can also have fat buildup from the same injection place over and over again in sub-Q. So have you tried your ass fat? Because that's my new.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I've only been doing intramuscular now because I'm so paranoid of it. I'm like, bro, I've been, I did my stomach every morning for like the whole year.

Speaker 3 I'm like, yeah, no, this is, I got to switch.

Speaker 1 Try that fucking ass fat that's like at the very bottom of your ass.

Speaker 1 Like where like, you know, like, you know, when you have your like trunks on and you're posing, like, they don't see that because it's all the way at the bottom and part of your trunks is covering that shit.

Speaker 2 Like, right up there.

Speaker 3 And that's intramuscular. You're not like pinching your ass.
No, it's sub Q.

Speaker 1 It's sub Q.

Speaker 3 How do you pinch your ass fat? I can't turn that far like this.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Get your girl to do it for you.

Speaker 2 Showing up your butt.

Speaker 3 How my girl do it. Yeah, facts.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I started doing my muscle, my intramuscular, because the stomach thing, you ever hear those little like knot bubbles? Yeah, always.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then one time I even bruised. I was like, man, fuck this.

Speaker 3 I know. I know.
I literally have one right now. It's like all red and swollen on my stomach.
I'm like, damn it.

Speaker 3 I can't post these check-ins. Damn it.

Speaker 2 Try the AsFAT. Just try it.

Speaker 1 Try it next time. See if you can do the little reach around.

Speaker 1 By the way, with the breathing thing, I'm curious if anyone in the audience has been told that they're breathing too loud, bro. When I was a, I think I wasn't meant to be a bodybuilder.

Speaker 1 When I was in kindergarten, there was a girl that turned to me halfway through class and just was like, can you just stop breathing? Literally when I was in kindergarten.

Speaker 1 So imagine being a bodybuilder, bro. My breathing is so fucking annoying.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 One of those things, like

Speaker 2 when you're huge, it's kind of like, cool.

Speaker 2 You're like, damn, this guy can barely breathe.

Speaker 2 But it's still fucking, it's still somewhat embarrassing.

Speaker 2 Like, for me, the only time I've ever been embarrassed about it was literally doing a podcast, and I can hear myself fucking breathe watching it. Like, what the fuck? No, the podcasts are the worst.

Speaker 1 The podcasts are the worst because we have the mics like right by your fucking, if you have the fucking earpod, it's right by your nose up here.

Speaker 3 And then sometimes the mics are. I'm just going to

Speaker 2 light down. I should put it away from my my face

Speaker 1 yeah i fucked jared feather over at our podcast because i i set the mics as close as possible to their face and i didn't tell jared to like be a wary about his breathing when he's not talking oh yeah so everyone was like dude jared's about to die

Speaker 3 this button this you use a cpap yet joe or not yet

Speaker 3 I haven't got it yet. No.
Oh, my God, bro. He needs one ASAP.

Speaker 2 Oh, do you actually?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I mean, I would assume so.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I feel like anyone.

Speaker 3 Yeah, anyone at that size probably could benefit from it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely test it out. I bet, like, you've been pretty decent for a while, though, considering a lot of your blood markers are pretty good.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to lie to you. I was surprised with what my numbers were.
I was so happy about it because I'm like, shit.

Speaker 2 You know, again, pushing this kind of size, it is a little scary at certain points. And then you never really know until you test it.
Like, you can't just assume you're okay. Yeah.
But then

Speaker 2 I actually talked to Justin Scheier recently about it, and uh, he recommended one to me because I'm a mouth breather. Like, when I lay down, I breathe like my mouth's fucking wide open.

Speaker 2 And so, there's a specific mask and like one that he has that are probably gonna get that one. So, I'll be able to use it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's that. And then using mouth tape too, like with the CPAP, put on mouth tape.

Speaker 3 That way, you literally can't breathe through your mouth, which is kind of scary, but it forces you to breathe through your nose.

Speaker 1 What if your nose gets congested while you're like, Yeah, that's what I was thinking?

Speaker 2 What if you just don't know what it is? It's like when my fucking, when I lay down, my nose just stops working. What the fuck? Like, why did I just breathe in my nose?

Speaker 1 We might have a similar thing. I, so, I got my shit tested because I was just concerned.
I'm like, even since I was a kid, I've had hard times breathing sometimes.

Speaker 1 And at first, we attribute that to pretty bad allergies. I have like a level five allergy to like grass and trees.
So I'm basically not from the earth. But

Speaker 1 also,

Speaker 1 uh, I just got my shit tested. It cost me fucking five plus.
Actually, for everything, it cost me almost 10 fucking K, but I probably could have gotten somewhere cheaper.

Speaker 1 I do not have, I don't have sleep apnea, but I have UARS, which is upper airway resistance syndrome. So then I had to pay another 5K to get this mouthpiece.
That's like a,

Speaker 1 it's a, it pushes your jaw forward, pushes your tongue forward, and allows you to breathe better, even through this, through the entire passageway.

Speaker 1 But with the UARS, though, it's so fucking annoying because even if you get a little bit of allergies, it's like the hole is like that small already.

Speaker 1 And then it's just like, you just can't fucking breathe through it no matter what. And even if you get the nose strips, it doesn't help enough because, like, it goes all the way up here.

Speaker 1 That there's like, you know, a fucking small, tiny ass airway.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, one of the recommendations they have is surgery, but the success rate for how long the surgery lasts for sometimes, like, it's only like five years or something like that.

Speaker 1 And then people, it just doesn't help as much and they go back to snoring and shit.

Speaker 3 Now, have you thought about getting your uh tonsils removed?

Speaker 3 Because people do that to help with their sleep apnea. I have a, I have a buddy of mine, and he actually got his uvula and his tonsils removed because he has such severe sleep apnea.
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wait, your uvula? The little punching bag? Holy shit.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 How fucking fat was his uvula?

Speaker 3 No, he's he's muscular. He's big, but it's just how he's just how he it's how he breathes.
Like he's always worn a CPAP and he said like it was so bad.

Speaker 3 Like he's like falling asleep at work and he uses the full face mask like fucking pressure all the way to the max and he still is like deals with bad sleep I mean so his they actually recommended him to have the surgery where they remove his tonsils that way he can his throat is a little bit more open no no uh

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 that's crazy what is the function of the uvula do you know

Speaker 3 gag reflex i don't know

Speaker 2 honestly is that what it is

Speaker 3 i have no idea

Speaker 1 I don't, I don't, I don't really have any experience with gag reflexes, so maybe Andy has a better answer.

Speaker 1 I don't have an answer to that.

Speaker 2 I don't, I don't, I honestly don't want to find out.

Speaker 3 I know Joe doesn't have a gag reflex because bro is force-feeding McDonald's for a whole year straight, probably.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's the reason, huh?

Speaker 2 He's just used to it.

Speaker 1 Damn, bro, you're a one-sick wing,

Speaker 2 one-sick wing.

Speaker 2 And that shit left and right.

Speaker 1 I want to ask some juicy shit because I'm sure people are curious. But

Speaker 1 you guys both had the craziest transformations.

Speaker 1 And also, congrats. Because

Speaker 1 I think just the fucking evolution that you guys have both had over the last year.

Speaker 1 Or the last couple of years, not just from your physique, but also in how you performed on stage and your placings is pretty fucking nuts, to be honest.

Speaker 1 Like Andy's placing from eighth or whatever past that all the way to getting like top, no, not top, like winning three pro shows in a row.

Speaker 1 And then same with you, Joe, like the changing and just like how much you performed on stage has been pretty nuts. So

Speaker 1 I guess I'm curious first, because I'm sure there's a lot of changes that you guys made in terms of like the actual prep coming in as tight as possible, you know, peaking correctly and everything.

Speaker 1 But I think everyone's also interested in just how you fucking make some crazy gains in the offseason. So I guess

Speaker 1 in the last few years or so, what would you guys attribute to your success and how much progress you made in your physique the most? If you had to pick something,

Speaker 3 Joe,

Speaker 3 you're bigger than me. You take presidence.
You can go first.

Speaker 2 So every year that I've bodybuilded

Speaker 2 competitively, I've done the smallest little things things to try to be a better bodybuilder, whether it was more cardio, less cheat meals, less alcohol, like

Speaker 2 what else? Trying to get better sleep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just being more consistent on what makes a good bodybuilder, a good bodybuilder. And,

Speaker 2 but honestly,

Speaker 2 outside of that, which I think is a pretty standard thing for most of us, the better we get, the better better we want to be, right? But

Speaker 2 I think the people you have around you is the biggest driving factor because your mental state and bodybuilding is probably the most important thing.

Speaker 2 Because I talked about it before that mind, body, and soul, all of them have to be aligned for you to be your best self.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I met my wife pretty much right after

Speaker 2 the Cal Pro that I did. And I was going through some stuff, met her.

Speaker 2 When I met her, my business took off.

Speaker 2 My training stuff,

Speaker 2 my, my drive was just really good because she was somebody that was doing this as well. And so it just motivated me to bring my best self.

Speaker 2 And she, like, she was inspired by the way I did things. So it even pushed me farther, like, man, like, this girl's inspired by me.
Like, no one's ever really told me that by my side.

Speaker 2 And so that, and then I found out I was having a son.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 that was another driving factor to where in my head, there was no other way

Speaker 2 or no other option than to succeed. And so making me a better bodybuilder because everything was taken completely serious.

Speaker 2 And I thought I was pushing myself before, but there's a whole other level that you can push yourself when you have that kind of motivation behind you.

Speaker 2 Everything started falling into place and the stresses of my life just went away.

Speaker 2 I went from being stressed out about progressing to just enjoying bodybuilding for what it was, to working out the way I love to work out, not worrying about hitting numbers, just having fun training, not putting all the pressure on myself as far as like,

Speaker 2 like, it's, it's like,

Speaker 2 I'm bodybuilding, but bodybuilding doesn't make me me. Joe makes me.

Speaker 2 And so I'm just going to be the best Joe I can be. And whatever that comes out to be is what I'm going to have it be as long as I'm happy.

Speaker 2 And so just that mental state and wanting to get the most out of this life for my son, like I was already making money for like with my training and it evolving.

Speaker 2 So, okay, there's less stress there, a woman that supports me. And then having fun with bodybuilding, that really elevated my physique because my mental state was perfect.

Speaker 2 And again, motivated, like.

Speaker 2 Knowing I have a son to provide for too. It's not about me anymore.
So it

Speaker 2 just,

Speaker 2 my mental state was probably the most important thing in anything.

Speaker 1 I can totally agree with that, man.

Speaker 1 I think that's one of the reasons too, why you gotta like research, you gotta literally experiment and figure out where the best dose is for you at that current time, depending on how big you are and how experienced you are.

Speaker 1 Because at a certain point, not only does it start fucking up with your blood work, but it also starts fucking up with your mental health as well too, right?

Speaker 1 And your sleep. And I think there's a lot of people that like, I even had people in the audience talking about how they'll like jump on like

Speaker 1 some of them have felt weird going up.

Speaker 1 Like, some people that are new have been feeling, have, have felt terrible from going up above, say, like, uh, 500 grams of testosterone just because they're new to it and they haven't titrated it up yet.

Speaker 1 Some people, they'll be like, Yeah, I fucking run literally 50 grams or 50 milligrams, not 50 grams, that would be crazy.

Speaker 1 50 milligrams of EQ and I can't fucking function because I have too much anxiety. Same thing with like MPP.
Some people just have these weird, um, just these weird interactions with MPP as well. So,

Speaker 1 yeah, man, I mean, honestly,

Speaker 1 I just, I,

Speaker 1 I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't be able to run, I wouldn't be able to run like over two grams of stuff in my offseason consistently, I don't think, without it making me feel some kind of fucking way and it fucking up with some kind of markers.

Speaker 3 I would say to answer that question,

Speaker 3 I definitely agree with Joe with the people you have around you, especially like your significant other, because it's, I always tell Tiana the same thing because we've been together four years, and it's literally, it seems like since we started dating, nothing but good things have happened.

Speaker 3 And not only in my life, but like my competitive bodybuilding, I'm like, okay, we started dating, and then it's like, then I win my first overall a year later, I turn pro.

Speaker 3 A year after that, I win my first pro show, and it's fucking awesome. I feel like without a supportive partner, especially in this sport, so much harder.

Speaker 3 Um, I mean, I have like, I mean, I'm sure you guys do. I have buddies who have, you know, girlfriends or wives and like they try to compete, and it's like their wives are just not going for it.

Speaker 3 And it's like bodybuilding, so bodybuilding is so mentally draining and taxing as it is to have like a partner, like kind of down your throat about like, you know, like,

Speaker 3 why are you even doing this? You're not even making money from this. Like, you're going to do another competition and it's like, it makes it a lot harder for you to do.

Speaker 3 So I think definitely having like a very supportive partner and team around you is is important and then i would say just like another really underrated thing and it's going to be like a the boring answer is just being consistent all year round like i'm talking like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed every day is the same but the whole entire year like that um i even see pros even olympians like they'll fall off the wagon for three three months you know two months um and some of them still make progress, some don't.

Speaker 3 But I feel like every year I make strides in my physique just because I'm like

Speaker 3 perfecting and nailing the basics every single day, every week, and then just like stacking perfect month after month after month.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, I feel like when you're on top of all that, when you're on top of your body work, your blood work, your nutrition.

Speaker 3 your cardio, you know, kept in all year round, you get better at training, train a progressive overload, like you just check every box every day.

Speaker 3 um just being consistent with like just the basics just year after year i feel like has helped me tremendously you know like every year i just get better just from getting better at doing the basic stuff yeah yeah totally agree with that man i think that's why it's important that i mean even though it's kind of hard to think in this i don't know it depends on who you are but if there's someone that's not supporting your growth then you need to cut them out If it's someone that's bringing you back and it's something that you've worked on and it's just not happening it's they got to be cut out well like i have this friend of mine and he's he's done a few shows um but he's not a pro or anything and he was telling me that um you know he was going to start his cycle here coming up and apparently his his girlfriend found like i don't know found his gear or saw it come through in the mail and she was like are you going to do another show or something like that and it caused an argument and she literally told to his face like well you're not making any money from this why are you even doing it it?

Speaker 3 And I'm like, man, I couldn't imagine like being with someone that not only doesn't believe in you like that, but

Speaker 3 I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 That's a fucked-up perspective.

Speaker 3 I feel like the partner you're with should be supportive of you no matter what. If you want to go, like,

Speaker 3 I don't know, fucking be a dumpster fucking, like, a trash man or something.

Speaker 3 You want to go be a janitor, you want to go work at McDonald's, like, your girlfriend should be, you know, clapping, you know, because she supports you no matter what decision decision it is and like it's crazy because like with tiana like if i were to quit bodybuilding today and be like hey i don't want to do this no more she'd be like you know what whatever you want to do i support you no matter what so um i couldn't imagine like having an opposite you know like something we're very passionate about and then our partner is like well why are you even doing it what's the point it's not healthy or you know and that sucks yeah It sucks a lot for sure.

Speaker 1 If you feel like any of the medications that we spoke about today may benefit you, such such as BPC-157, GH acreaglogs such as tessamarellin, IGF-1, oxandrolone chrochee, semiclutide, then you can obtain these from Transcend HRT and the link for that will be in the bio.

Speaker 1 If you feel like you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone, such as depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, as well as lack of sex drive, then you can get this checked out as well by getting your blood work done at Transcend and they will provide you expert medical analysis.

Speaker 1 Transcend HRT has worked with many professional bodybuilders and pro athletes such as Thor Bjornsson, Phil Heath, and Jeremy Bundia.

Speaker 1 And if you feel like this podcast has any relevancy to you, I do believe that this clinic will provide of great benefit to you as well.

Speaker 3 Hey, Joe, tell me, after you ate that BJ's, remember we had the lactate.

Speaker 3 Did you notice, like, oh, my stomach doesn't feel fucked up at all? Are you in the next day?

Speaker 2 Um, no, I

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 I get bloated

Speaker 3 and gassy.

Speaker 2 It still happened. But like,

Speaker 2 as bad? Was it as bad? No, it wasn't as bad. No, it wasn't as bad.

Speaker 3 Because for what we ate,

Speaker 3 we had pizza. We had ice cream.
Holy shit. And my stomach was fine.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Dude,

Speaker 2 it's funny. Like,

Speaker 2 I can eat

Speaker 2 like dairy, but when it comes to like ice cream or frozen yogurt, those two, like once that gets into my system, I'm like, fucked. Well, I can eat because it's like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I know, but yeah, I can have other dairy products, but if it's not, yeah, like straight up ice cream,

Speaker 2 something about just, I think it's just pretty much straight up dairy.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 yeah, like, uh, but like the pizza, like I had pizza, um,

Speaker 2 when I had pizza on

Speaker 2 what day was it, man,

Speaker 2 Saturday,

Speaker 2 hey, babe, when did I have that pizza?

Speaker 2 It was Saturday. And yeah, my stomach was all right.
Like, it was, it's, it's, oh, and then you heard that place, sorry, not sorry, the ice cream place.

Speaker 2 No, it's an ice cream place. It's in Vegas here.
And, uh, because I'm in Vegas right now. And they have vegan options.
So it was fucking delicious.

Speaker 2 But yeah, because I did that, my stomach was completely fine.

Speaker 3 Oh, bro. Yeah.
That's the crazy thing. Like, because, you know, obviously Tiana's vegan.
So like, I'll occasionally go to like a full-on vegan restaurant with her. And the food actually is not bad.

Speaker 3 Like, I'm very open-minded to it. And, uh, bro, I'll order a milkshake order burger fries.
Like, I order everything. And my stomach, it's like completely flat.
And I'm like, how is this possible?

Speaker 3 And she's like, well, because technically everything is made from plants. And I'm like, damn, that's real.
So I could eat like a full-on pizza. And it's technically made from plants.

Speaker 3 So it's not going to fuck me up at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Still. Yeah.

Speaker 1 My ex and then also Lexi was vegan too. So, I ate a lot of vegan food in a lot of impossible burgers, bro.

Speaker 1 But she kind of smacks low-key, Joe, bro.

Speaker 3 You're in Vegas and you can't get pink box. What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 Wait, what's pink box? We got um, we got sweet on a ray donut. Oh, shit,

Speaker 3 is that like a different? It's like a similar thing to pink box, like some big-ass donuts.

Speaker 2 There's some big, bro,

Speaker 2 fucking a dog. Like, so I we got uh 12 a dozen donuts,

Speaker 2 and um, that shit cost me $65.

Speaker 3 Oh, I believe it, bro.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they were fucking delicious.

Speaker 3 Worth every penny.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, honestly, would I get it again anytime soon? No, but it was definitely like worth it.
They had some good fucking. And then

Speaker 2 my wife is all excited because they had a Dubai chocolate donut. They had their version of it.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 It was really good.

Speaker 1 Dude, I'm really obsessed with those new Dubai chocolate flavors.

Speaker 3 When we were in LA, I think it was

Speaker 3 the day I trained with you, Niall. It was Friday.
We me and Tiana went to a vegan bakery because she had, we, every time we travel, she'll map out like different places she wants to try.

Speaker 3 And there was this vegan bakery, so they had like vegan carrot cake, vegan banana bread, that type of shit. So we're like, hey, let's get a slice of this, this, this, this, this, this, this.

Speaker 3 Bro, it was over a hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 Jesus. Hey, but we slammed

Speaker 3 and two coffees, but we slammed all that shit, bro.

Speaker 1 Honestly, rather than going to like a fucking, what is it called? Like a

Speaker 1 like Disneyland or something, I'd rather just go spend a hundred bucks at a fucking bakery.

Speaker 3 Fuck no, bro. I'm never going to Disneyland ever again.

Speaker 2 Never.

Speaker 3 Bro, I told Joe this story. I'm surprised Joe doesn't have a similar story.

Speaker 3 I went with my girlfriend and her family in 2021 when I was a lot smaller, bro. After the first hour, my feet were cooked.

Speaker 2 And the whole time,

Speaker 3 it was a two-day thing.

Speaker 2 Were you wearing heels?

Speaker 3 I was just wearing like regular Nikes or something, bro. My feet were in so much pain.
I was probably like 250 pounds or something. And then it's like, you're waiting in line.

Speaker 3 And then I'm like, hey, I got to eat, pull out my meal. And then we go wait in another line.
I can't fit on the rides. I'm like, this is not fun.

Speaker 3 And so I remember the next day I was telling her, like, babe, my feet are so messed up. Like, I can't go for a second day.
And so her parents rented me a scooter, like a motorized scooter.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 They paid like $100 for me to ride it because I was like, fucking hilarious.

Speaker 2 My feet.

Speaker 1 You can't imagine a bodybuilder on his bulk on a motorized scooter.

Speaker 2 Disney World.

Speaker 3 It's like people with like real disabilities who use it or like really overweight. I'm like, hella fine.
I'm perfectly fine. I'm like a fit young guy.

Speaker 2 I'm like using the little horn beep beep beep when I'm looking around people.

Speaker 1 You're the worst of America, bro.

Speaker 3 But it changed the game, bro.

Speaker 2 My feet you were good you're the problem

Speaker 2 yeah no my i've never done back-to-back days at disney so i've definitely felt the foot pain um but yeah back to back disney days that hell no and not to mention it's like oh you want to get a churro sure thing 25 like come on man this is nah i'm good that hell nah all right all right so i um andy and i talked about his transformation in our last podcast and i know that this would be really valuable to the audience.

Speaker 1 And I think they would find a lot of worth and value from this,

Speaker 1 listening about this from you, Joe.

Speaker 1 And I've also heard you talk about this in other podcasts. And I think a lot of my audience hasn't heard about it.
But I would love to hear just about your insane transformation, honestly.

Speaker 1 Because some of us are having fucking trouble here. And

Speaker 1 I know that you trained a lot.

Speaker 1 I know you fucking worked your ass off as a natural for the longest amount of time.

Speaker 1 And then finally, after that, that show, you were just like, all right, fam, I'm fucking, I'm going to jump on this cycle.

Speaker 1 So hopefully you guys support me, but like, this is what I want to do, et cetera. And you jumped on the cycle.
And then I'm pretty sure you said it was something along the lines of 500 tests.

Speaker 1 And then like maybe 50 DECA for a few weeks.

Speaker 2 Deball.

Speaker 2 It was 500 tests to Sipionate,

Speaker 2 50 milligrams of D-ball daily. for five weeks.
No D-ball. Once the D-ball was taken out, it was 600 milligrams of EQ for the rest of the, it was a total of a 16-week cycle for my first cycle.

Speaker 1 Okay, how much weight did you gain?

Speaker 2 Uh, so because I was rebounding off of my show and I went from natural to enhance, I put on 50 pounds.

Speaker 1 Yeah, geez, fuck, that's fucking sick.

Speaker 2 Do you remember how?

Speaker 2 So, the but that's the thing. So, look,

Speaker 2 the heaviest I ever was as a natural person was 233 pounds, was the heaviest. So, I've already, I was already that heavy before.
And that's big as fuck if I'm eight.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I, I, um, I was chubby.
The best I looked as a natural was an off-season that I did where I got to about 222 pounds.

Speaker 2 There's a picture of me super far down in my Instagram, but it's me natural standing in my backyard. I had abs and stuff, and I was in really good off-season shape as a natural, 222 pounds.

Speaker 2 But yeah, the heaviest thing I was 233. The heaviest I got on that first cycle was 238.
So I only went past five pounds what my body already knew.

Speaker 2 That's kind of where I stayed.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like when you were natural, even when you were natural, that your abs stayed pretty, pretty lean whenever you gained a lot of weight?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was weird. I always kind of had abs.
Like, I can get fat as fuck. I had man tits and everything.
My abs still kind of shows. Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah, it was weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I feel like, I feel like you can see that even when you're on stage, you got those like those fucking white boy shredded ab genetics.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I do have, I get nasty left handles. Well, not the worst, but I definitely get that like Mexican tire in the back.

Speaker 2 Half Mexican. Fire.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 When did you, what was the year that you started again?

Speaker 2 When did you start it?

Speaker 1 That you jumped to the dark side?

Speaker 2 That was 2021, right before the start of 22. So November 2021.
Damn. So just shit.
I'm lying. I'm lying.
November 2020 going into 21. Okay.
okay because i competed that first show natural covid year

Speaker 2 and that was like one of the last shows you could do because i i was pretty much in shape to compete but i kept pushing back the time because

Speaker 2 the the covid was like canceling all these shows and then finally one stuck around where i was like i'm choosing this one gotcha and it was uh iron games in california yeah

Speaker 1 san diego california gotcha san diego's awesome bro um

Speaker 1 so it's been about, okay, it's been about five years then, huh? It's a fucking nutty transformation, bro. How many pounds do you think you've gained in terms of lean mass? Say that you

Speaker 2 go above my stage weight. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was 187, and I was as lean as I could fucking get, man. I don't know why the lines on my legs weren't showing.
I think it's because I was natural and I never got that lean.

Speaker 2 If I were to push any farther, I was just going to get smaller.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're going to lose a lot of size elsewhere.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the lowest I got was 183 for that like prep. And then I got up to 187 for the stage.
Okay. And then this last showing, I was 247 at Texas.
So whatever, that's 60 pounds. Fuck, bro.
Sick.

Speaker 1 60 lean pounds in five hours.

Speaker 2 It's a dream.

Speaker 2 I was definitely leaner. at 247 than I was at 187, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm really proud of what I've accomplished. But like Andy said, like,

Speaker 2 I love this stuff. So like, I just, there was, there was a short period of time that I spoke about another podcast where I wasted time.

Speaker 2 So I had an ex-fiancé that we split apart that I was with for 12 years. And I went through a depression period then.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so I was drinking a lot again, kind of going back towards the old life I just got away from. But then got back on track, you know, with the California show.

Speaker 2 I tell everyone that's a show to save my life. and uh

Speaker 2 yeah like i've been like pretty much on

Speaker 2 on it since so when was this time

Speaker 2 that was in

Speaker 2 august of 2021 okay

Speaker 2 you know and then uh so when people wanted me to do

Speaker 2 fast forward to when i did I won the Cal. And then people wanted me to do USAs.
I knew how much time I wasted, how much progress I left on the table.

Speaker 2 So I was like, if I give this a full year where I'm all in, no distractions, no fucking around, I know I can win that show. Cause I just did what I did at the Cal

Speaker 2 with that huge hurdle that I had to get over and I was going through some shit. But I knew I wasted time, which is why in my head, I was able to do what I did.

Speaker 1 You know, one cool thing, though, that I think this is a great example that because Quentin Arya also had the on our podcast, he said he he had the same a similar experience where he kind of went off the rails started drinking again Just had a very very rough time and I think this just shows that all these people like if you if you are experiencing a time where you're just fucking down and things are not working out and you are just going through a rough patch man does not mean you can't come back does not mean you can't come back and excel and fucking beat any of the last packages you've ever brought or beat any of the last accomplishments whether it's in another career that you've ever fucking achieved you know

Speaker 1 the rough patches sometimes are the the places that allow us to figure out how to

Speaker 1 be better moving forward, honestly. Sometimes they're even needed.
So I think it's a cool example.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it makes you appreciate what you're doing too. Like one thing that I've always preached about was that I've never ever stopped working out.

Speaker 2 Even though I was drinking and being a jackass like that and stuff, like going down the wrong path, I always trained and I always trained hard.

Speaker 2 Whether nutrition was in play or not, I always trained hard. It was like my, I've always used the whole, you know, cliche, like, this is my therapy thing.

Speaker 2 Like, there's a reason that I tell people it's different when you need the gym. It's that there is no, like, oh, I'm not going to make my workout today.
No, that is literally my day.

Speaker 2 There's no way, no matter what time of year it is, no matter what I'm going through, I need that shit. I remember going through some shit.

Speaker 2 I was at the gym at fucking midnight just to be able to make it happen. It didn't fucking matter.
Like, I was going to go. That's all.

Speaker 1 How much would you say that your dosage dosages increased every year from going from 500 five years ago up to 1.2 grams of test?

Speaker 2 Shit. So, I mean,

Speaker 2 for a while, so I did 500. Second cycle, I did 600, and then it stayed,

Speaker 2 it stayed at 600. No, it went to 750,

Speaker 2 and it stayed at 750 for like

Speaker 2 like a year. Okay.
And then it finally jumped to 900 for a cycle. Then it jumped to a thousand,

Speaker 2 then to 1200, and then the tiniest jump to 1250. Nice.

Speaker 2 Literally in that order.

Speaker 2 Hello. Over the last five years.
Cool.

Speaker 2 And then I've explained this to every single person or on other podcasts. Sorry.

Speaker 2 By test is the only number that has gone up. The other compounds have all stayed the same.
And then the GH is the only other thing that has gone up. All the other dosages have stayed the same.
so

Speaker 1 how how do you manage aromatization if like your other i'm not really sure what if you've been using eq mostly as your secondary compound but if it's something like eq or primo how do you manage aromatization if that one normally stays the same

Speaker 2 so my i've always had to run um a little bit of aromadex on every cycle okay that's always in play like i I easily get flare-ups.

Speaker 2 Once I get past 500 tests, it's just going going to happen. And then if I do run an oral, it happens right away.
Like after two weeks, I start getting real sensitive.

Speaker 2 So, and then like even my, like after my, my, uh,

Speaker 2 blood results and stuff, my estradiol always goes up. Like, cause you know, you go, you do, you do, uh, prep, all run trend for prep and shit.
And so that always, like, fucking

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm always having to do something like that.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. Um, has every year felt like,

Speaker 1 do you feel like you've grown an equal amount every year? Or has there been a year where you feel like that was the most progress you've made?

Speaker 2 Okay, so progress can be gauged in other than different forms, right? Whether it's muscle maturity, like detail. As far as size, the most

Speaker 2 progress I made was from 2023 to 24, where I put on 20 pounds of stage weight. That was pretty wild.

Speaker 2 That's

Speaker 2 again, I don't want people to think this was the be-all end-all, but I did run insulin for that.

Speaker 2 So, when people saw me blow up, um, that was the first time I did insulin, but I just got done saying I was eating like 8,000 calories.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was the one where you went up to 300 pounds, too, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes, and that was the biggest growth phase I ever had. Um, other than that, it's been pretty average, it's been like 15 pounds, 12 to 15 pounds a year.
That 20 was fucking huge. Um,

Speaker 2 but uh, uh i mean i don't know what i'll do this time around but

Speaker 2 um i don't think it's gonna be crazy high the goal is always like seven eight pounds of tissue for me for where i'm at um

Speaker 2 but i've always uh surpassed that yeah which is pretty cool yeah pretty fucking sick no no even uh what what's what's interesting to me is like I highly value what my coach, Justin Compton, has to say to me and stuff.

Speaker 2 And even this last rebound,

Speaker 2 he said, I can't believe that your body is still progressing at this rate.

Speaker 2 This, like,

Speaker 2 each and every year. He's like, I figured it would start slowing down.
He's like, it hasn't slowed down, which was mind-blowing to him. So that was cool to hear from Justin.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is fucking dope. And he's a very good coach, man.
I love seeing the stuff he posts about you.

Speaker 1 Do you mind me asking, which was the cycle that you were running when you gained the 20 pounds? Was that when you upped it at any point, like to the 900 or something?

Speaker 2 That was a thousand milligrams of test, 700 milligrams of NPP.

Speaker 2 I actually

Speaker 2 ran out of GH three weeks into that cycle, and I couldn't get it for quite some time. So I stopped running GH.

Speaker 3 So I didn't even count that.

Speaker 2 And it was only 10 I used for three weeks. Like I literally ran out.
and then uh

Speaker 2 the insulin was the humolog

Speaker 2 and that was

Speaker 2 I don't think I was on EQ I don't remember if I was on EQ or not I don't think I was

Speaker 2 I don't think I was

Speaker 1 yeah I was testing MPP gotcha do you remember how many weeks you were off gh for

Speaker 2 Fuck, dude, I was off for a long time. So

Speaker 2 I was probably off GH for like five months, four months. Damn, that's a long ass time.

Speaker 1 But that was also the period of time you were running insulin, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, uh, that I ran insulin that whole cycle, bro.

Speaker 1 That makes you wonder, man.

Speaker 1 Like, what if, like, I mean, obviously, everyone's physique is totally different and everyone's going to respond differently, but like sounds to me like that was a period of time where you were slamming a lot of carbs, but you were also extremely insulin sensitive.

Speaker 1 Because not only were you using insulin to give your pancreas a break, but you were also off GH,

Speaker 1 which is kind of nuts.

Speaker 1 And now I'm hearing all of these coaches like Chris Chris Tuttle, Dom Super Slice, a lot of like very wise coaches discussing just how important they're trying to just keep insulin sensitivity at a high throughout the entire offseason, especially right post-show, which is why they're like doing this reverse diet and try to titrate things up slowly, or at least in a consistent,

Speaker 1 at least in an amount that's equatable to like the dosages that you're increasing, right?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 whether people believe me or not, I've always like talked about food being the main driving factor. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And my ability to eat, like, trust me, I've been where I've talked about this story over and over again.

Speaker 2 I remember when I was chasing, it was literally this time period too, that you're asking me about. I was lying down in bed in fucking tears because

Speaker 2 I was having such a hard time eating. And I was like, fuck, man.
Like, I started to think, I can't do this. Like, this is so hard, like, to be able to eat this much.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, but all the pros are a certain size. And I'm like, if I want to be competitive at all, like, I need to be able to at least match the size.
Like,

Speaker 2 and I was like, I

Speaker 2 cried about it because I felt like my dream was going to go away because I can't do this.

Speaker 2 And then just, I just told myself, like, fuck, man, like, look, it's either you do it or you don't. It's that simple.
So either find a way or let your dreams slip away.

Speaker 2 And that's when people started hearing me talk about the McDonald's and

Speaker 2 the seven of the 7-eleven cookies with a protein shake beforehand

Speaker 2 whatever the fuck i had to do because i was like i've put in so much of my

Speaker 2 time my art everything lost people along the way that you know part of doing this has caused problems so it's like

Speaker 2 am i really gonna give up and be like just throw it all away because this is hard Like, no, I'm going to prove to myself that I can be that small percentage of that person in the world that can do this.

Speaker 2 And so I did. And here we are.
Fuck.

Speaker 1 That's savage. It's like that modern, it's like a modern Lee Priest growth season right there.

Speaker 2 Well, because that's what that's, and that's why I preach it.

Speaker 2 Like guys that have a hard time, they're in that position where they're in that bed crying, feeling like their dreamers are slipping away because they can't do it. I'm like, look,

Speaker 2 there's fundamentals to this shit. You got to eat big to get big and you got to train fucking hard.
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 get enough protein but get the calories in it's calories whether that comes from fucking cookies or fucking rice cakes. It doesn't fucking matter.
Get the calories in.

Speaker 2 Make sure the protein and mouse hit and fucking train hard.

Speaker 2 You may get a little chubby, but you're going to be fucking, you're going to get the side. You're going to have the strength to train hard.
Like, just do that.

Speaker 2 And trust me, it's not going to stay that way. I can eat the food to be this big, the clean food.
But to get bigger, yeah, I've had to do that.

Speaker 2 And again, it's not the healthiest thing, but there was no way I was going to give up. Like, I just couldn't.
There's too much in this for me

Speaker 2 and my mental state and my dreams to just fucking walk away because it's hard.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm going to poke you a little bit, but why not do that again now then?

Speaker 2 Because the goal is no longer to put on size and my health numbers, right? So

Speaker 2 I've always said clean food is better because of your health. not spiking your blood sugar so high with the sugary treats and shit like that.

Speaker 2 It just so happens, like cookies and cakes and all those things are super easy calories to get in.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 when you eat healthy food, your digestion is just

Speaker 2 better.

Speaker 2 Your health numbers are going to be better. Your blood pressure, your blood sugar, all those things.
And being this heavy is already unhealthy. So

Speaker 2 eating that way is going to harm you at some point.

Speaker 2 And that's why I told everybody, like, I want to get to pro-level size like by the time I'm 30, because at that point i can ease back on all the harsh things that you have to do to get big and start focusing more on the health and by the time i am 40 i'm not going to have all these health issues

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 1 you know like that was yeah that was just my way of thinking if i do it now then i have a chance of living a little longer than if i finished league bro i think you're the first person on this podcast that straight up just said in detail like their most savage season because you know how all these guys say like oh they've done crazy shit in the past that's why they don't, you know, they have like easier and lower dosages now or they have like whatever.

Speaker 1 They do do the healthy things. Like, I feel like everyone has had that time where they've just like fucking smashed the McDonald's, you know, or smashed the fucking cookies together.

Speaker 1 Smashed the fucking cinnamon toast crunch to get that fucking calorie in.

Speaker 2 And it's like, bro, it's a, I think those words, but it's just a double-edged sword.

Speaker 1 And you can only do it for how long? Maybe like a year or something? But like you continue doing that and the blood markers just get worse and worse and worse.

Speaker 1 And that's where you start seeing the trends in your, in your blood work going in the wrong direction, regardless of, and then that's where people have to pull back on the dosages and then pull back on the bodybuilding and then take breaks and then make excuses for why they're not bodybuilding right now or something like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, that's pretty fucking savage, though.

Speaker 2 That's what it took. That's what it took for me.
And I'm like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to tell somebody how to do something when I didn't do it that way because it's lying. Like it's.

Speaker 2 I don't, I think we all know that's not the best way to do this.

Speaker 2 But when you're coming to a fucking like, like your back's against the wall and it's that little thing you need to do to just get to that other level you're trying to get to, like, dude, I was going to do whatever.

Speaker 2 I wanted to find a way. There was no way that

Speaker 2 I was, like I said, going to walk away.

Speaker 2 I think, dude, like, I'm sure Andy is that passionate about it where he would be in tears if he felt like he couldn't do something that's right there, right in front of him.

Speaker 2 So it's kind of like, yeah, if I can, I don't like to preach these things, but I'm just telling you what I did. Like, yeah that's what it took for me

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 3 i'm in tears taking three days off the gym for lab work bro

Speaker 3 i can't i can't go without it i'm like joe this's like the sole focus my whole day revolves around that training session so it's like i got you bro if i can't make it it's it's tough but um i just want to say

Speaker 3 I already had my pod with you and the viewers got to know who I am.

Speaker 3 And I would love for them to continue to get to know joe on a deeper level and i know you have a bunch of questions from the viewers so i'm gonna jump off and let joe answer these questions wait you got you might get some questions i don't know i mean i might i can i can answer some for sure but yeah yeah we'll jump we'll jump to the q a right now

Speaker 2 let's do it let's run it up let's run it what are you trying to do you're trying to get your meal in well

Speaker 3 no no no yeah like i'm gonna eat after but like it's more of like this is Joe's moment. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like, I'm happy to be here, but Joe, this is, this is his moment on this pod, you know, and I want people to get to know him for who fat Joe is, you know.

Speaker 2 Thanks, Andy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course, bro.

Speaker 3 But I'm sure, I'm sure

Speaker 2 Joe.

Speaker 3 I know predominantly most of the questions are going to be geared towards him as they should. But if there happens to be one that all of us could answer, shit, I mean, I'll chime in too.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 There's definitely a couple for sure.

Speaker 1 All right. I do want to ask, though,

Speaker 1 how are you, how are you feeling personally with this offseason now that you guys have

Speaker 1 jumped up the dosages more than you ever have?

Speaker 2 And the food.

Speaker 1 And the food too.

Speaker 3 I feel really good, bro.

Speaker 3 Like we talked about like that post-show fullness and size kind of coming back. I mean, I was on prep all year.

Speaker 3 So like just being in that surplus i feel like has really really like been able to i've been really able to ramp up my training performance um obviously fullness has came back you know i just feel fresh um but i've never actually done a rebound like this where i actually stay on cycle and push the food up really high out of the gate so

Speaker 3 the first two to three weeks you know i was still taking it easy in the gym just for my joints to make sure like my body is fresh I don't want to get injured or anything.

Speaker 3 But it's about six weeks post-Olympia. And I feel like this is the biggest I've ever been.

Speaker 3 This is like the highest by far my food has ever been. Training performance is great.
My body still feels very, very fresh.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 Prob actually had just sent me pictures from like 245 pounds a couple of days ago to 245 pounds last offseason. And it's like, I'm so much leaner, harder, tighter.

Speaker 3 It's such a better quality 245.

Speaker 3 And obviously I'm on cycle in both. so it's kind of tangible.
Um, but I feel really good, man. I think we're really, really making some good ground here.
And, um,

Speaker 3 for the shows we have picked out for next year, it's like we have to push the limits here, and like, we really, really want to see like how far we can go and how much tissue we can put on.

Speaker 3 We actually really kind of want to be aggressive here, which I like.

Speaker 3 I like being aggressive because I know I'm checking all the other boxes, so it's like I feel like I'm really maximizing the dosages and

Speaker 3 I'm able to train my back more frequently. Like, I was telling you guys, because like when the gear is high and the food is high, I know the recovery is there.

Speaker 3 So, I'm like, if I'm gonna train back three times a week, I know I'll recover. So, it's been good.

Speaker 1 Do you mind?

Speaker 1 Do you mind spilling what the doses were last year and what they are now this year, and then what the carbs were last year and what the carbs are this year?

Speaker 3 Um, you know what? I'll just pull it up. Um, I know the carbs,

Speaker 3 I know the carbs were

Speaker 2 let's see here.

Speaker 3 Let's see. This time last year, let's say December.

Speaker 3 So, like

Speaker 3 this time last year, it was 600 megs of tests, 600 megs of mass E, 400 megs of Primo, six IEs of GH, three IEs

Speaker 3 before bed, and three I use fasted, 10 units of Lantis.

Speaker 3 And then carbs, the highest I got was 520 grams. And then right now, it's the highest I've ever pushed my cycle in the offseason.
It's 900 tests, 600 mast E, 300 Primo,

Speaker 3 20 units of Lantis, only three IUs of GH, and then 887 grams of carbs.

Speaker 1 Damn,

Speaker 1 why did he drop the GH?

Speaker 3 Well, honestly, we put it back in right after the Olympia and we just kept it at three IUs. And I was like, are you sure you don't want me to bump it back up to six?

Speaker 3 And he's like, no, like, I don't want it messing with our blood glucose. Like, you're really insulin sensitive.
So

Speaker 3 I don't want to like just ramp up the GH right out of the gate. And then everything's been going so well.

Speaker 3 And especially now with how high the food is, we're like, yeah, we don't want to like push the GH and the food up super high at the same time because that's just a recipe for being like a water buffalo, you know?

Speaker 1 So just insulin sensitivity again, right? It's back to that thing. And I think that's what Chris, I think that's what Chris and Dom would both do too, me personally talking to them.

Speaker 3 And it's, it's crazy, too, because I never thought my food would get this high, but it's literally like, I'll send a check in. I'm still very, very lean and my weight will go down.

Speaker 3 So he's like, all right, I'm going to bump your food up to say 700 grams of carbs on training days. And this is with one free meal a week, too.

Speaker 3 Maybe for two days, my weight might trend up a little bit, but then by the third day, drops, I dropped two pounds again.

Speaker 3 So like he's actually needing to feed me because he wants this weight to keep trending up. We're not trying to like stay in the 230s or lose weight.

Speaker 3 So, it's like, if you keep losing weight, even if it 800 grams of carbs, we just have to up it.

Speaker 2 So, damn, that's cool.

Speaker 1 How much weight did you gain on your last season?

Speaker 1 The 500-something grams of carbs?

Speaker 2 The heaviest I got was 247 fasted.

Speaker 3 Cause remember, we stayed super, super lean last offseason. That was like you know how much you gained in stage weight.
Oh, in stage weight.

Speaker 3 Um, yeah, and the three-month off-season we took i put on uh 10 pounds of stage weight 11 three wait three months

Speaker 3 because i only took because i did legion last year remember we were talking about on my pod and that was that was in october and then we started prep in january so we did we came off or we trt'd for eight weeks and then we started prep in january so i mean like two three month off season

Speaker 3 holy fuck yeah and i went from holy i went from 211 on stage to 223 so about about 12 pounds that's crazy i'm curious what other variables led to that because that's impressive dude well i don't know but all i know is now i'm taking a longer off season i'm not starting prep till like maybe march so i have like a lot of runway here so i'm i'm excited we want to get to like 255 in this in this condition hopefully so about

Speaker 3 10 12 pounds away um

Speaker 3 just because like I was telling you at the gym, Niall, I'm like, these guys are 265, 270 lean, and they're the same height as me. So, like, that just goes to show how big these guys really are.

Speaker 1 Like, Niall Darwin.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I didn't even.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I even told Joe.
Joe, you know, one punch and a right? The classic guy who got fifth.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah.

Speaker 3 This was my reality. This was my Welcome to the Olympia moment here, reality check.

Speaker 3 He's the same height as me.

Speaker 3 so our weight cutoff is the same and that's 227 pounds so obviously we both made weight i weighed in like at 219 after fluids and carbing up i got on stage at 223 morning of the show well he was telling me and then also in his youtube video he made weight the next or two days later when he got on stage he was 241 pounds

Speaker 3 so i was 223 he was 241 and And we're the same height. So he's 18 pounds heavier than me, stage weight, and we're the same cutoff.
I'm like, that just goes to show how far behind I am.

Speaker 2 You know, it's just

Speaker 1 well, even how much weight you don't keep the carb up is crazy.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's like, how do you gain 18, 18 pounds? Or I'm sorry, what would that be? 14 pounds in 48 hours without like disrupting your digestion at all or bro.

Speaker 2 You know who did that? Was uh, I don't know if you guys are familiar with a guy named Zayd.

Speaker 2 Zayd won um the

Speaker 2 light heavy class in USAs, and he put on 20 pounds from the uh weigh-in to show day.

Speaker 2 Jesus,

Speaker 2 what the fuck?

Speaker 3 What's crazy? What's crazier about that is that was a one-day turnaround because uh weigh-ins for USAs is Thursday, and then pre-judging Friday morning. Yeah, which

Speaker 3 20 pounds of Monday,

Speaker 2 definitely.

Speaker 3 So the goal next year is to be like,

Speaker 3 if we can be peeled at 235 and then just suck down, dehydrate, sit in a sauna like these guys are all doing to make weight. And then we can make weight at 227, carb back up to like 236, 237,

Speaker 3 then it's like, that's my physique with another 12 pounds on it. So it's like, ooh, okay.
That's, I feel like then I'll be able to hang with like those guys in that top 15, top 20, like Hosemo, Niall.

Speaker 3 Like these guys are fucking huge, but Ramon, these guys are huge. Like they're way more, they have way more tissue than me.

Speaker 3 They're way more dense than me, which they're also able to get more peel than me because they have more muscle tissue.

Speaker 3 So yeah, bro, I'm just, I got more to go. That's it.

Speaker 1 You got this, bro.

Speaker 3 Not big enough, bro.

Speaker 1 You're close and you're going to crush this offseason.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I might follow follow you too because I think we took similar, we had a pretty similar carbon take and dose intake from last year.

Speaker 2 So I should maybe jump on the train with you.

Speaker 3 I'm telling you, I already told you, bro.

Speaker 3 You're going to nail this reverse. You're going to come back next year.

Speaker 3 It's going to be crazy. It's going to be wild.
You should do Legion next year.

Speaker 1 When is that?

Speaker 3 May 30th.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's way too early, bro.

Speaker 1 Yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 It gives me like three months.

Speaker 2 My fucking

Speaker 3 my health phase isn't over till like february 1st oh well i forgot you're also going out of the country for a bit and then like you're not going to be able to train for a bit okay yeah yeah that makes sense i'll have like two months of offseason so

Speaker 3 andy i can't build 10 months 10 pounds in three months do you think you're actually gonna compete next year or you think you're gonna take the whole year off or is it gonna be just like a later show you'd think I have no clue, man.

Speaker 1 It really just depends on. I'm going to talk to Patrick and see what he thinks.

Speaker 1 I would rather,

Speaker 1 I'd rather just

Speaker 1 maybe i should just full send what joe said just full send the fucking hardcore mcdonald's diet and see let's go baby

Speaker 1 for you for a year and a half let's just come back cover up my uh my weight cap 17 pounds i don't know we'll figure it out but i think since i'm 7 pounds below i have a lot of yeah

Speaker 1 i have like a lot of time that i need to really work

Speaker 1 making these quality gains for sure. So, I mean, my idea is like, I would love to do the Arnold

Speaker 1 year after like 2027 that'd be maybe march or something yeah march the arnold 2027 and just take a lot of time off and then hopefully try to try to show that i've made a big difference and

Speaker 1 hopefully

Speaker 3 hopefully surprise the judges maybe with the improvements but we'll see that's the fun part bro the improvements you know i mean like a lot of people a lot of people think the offseason is boring and it can be i guess to an extent because it's nothing really changes and it's very very like mundane, but

Speaker 2 I go is a lot farther.

Speaker 3 I'm like, bro, I'm putting in the work now because come May, June, whatever shows I do, I'm like, I can't wait to see what that looks like. You know, it gets me so fired up.

Speaker 1 No, I feel the same, bro. I do.

Speaker 1 There's a Q ⁇ A. Aaron Bounds asks, how do y'all structure training and what kind of training, et cetera? I know you guys train together sometimes too.
So I want to hear this.

Speaker 3 As far as like training split or like individual, like how many working sets we're doing per everything.

Speaker 1 How are you training when you're training together? What are y'all's training splits?

Speaker 3 When it comes to training together, I just let Joe lead the way. So if we're doing 20 working sets, if we're doing 10, if we're doing one, I just let him lead the way.

Speaker 3 And then same with the movement pattern.

Speaker 3 But right now, I've been doing kind of push-pull legs,

Speaker 3 but a kind of like a bro bro split variation of it. So I'll do a push day that's chest focused.
I'll do a push day that's shoulder focused, two back days, and then one leg day per week.

Speaker 3 So I'm only training five days a week.

Speaker 3 And then, yeah, three days on, two days, three days on, one day off, two days on, one day off.

Speaker 2 Okay, cool.

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 1 What about you right now?

Speaker 2 For me, I do the old school bro split. So

Speaker 2 chest and calves Monday, back tuesday rest wednesday

Speaker 2 uh shoulders thursday arms friday saturday the full leg leg day sunday rest and then repeat nice and um as far as like

Speaker 2 so i i i train kind of different whether i'm on or off but when i'm on cycle my volume is way higher when i'm off it's less and i'll train actually a little heavier because i do like one real working set when i'm on trt and then when I do, when I'm on cycle, I'll do more volume, but I'll push multiple failure sets.

Speaker 2 So like, I'll do like, it's like three working sets, but one to two of those

Speaker 2 sets is complete failure and then really fucking close to failure. So I'll get more failure sets in and more volume.
So more, more.

Speaker 2 It's more sets in general, I guess.

Speaker 2 Cause I can recover from it when I'm on. Yeah.
And

Speaker 2 that's literally the only difference.

Speaker 2 I'll still do five or six exercises for the muscle groups. Just how many actual sets I do is a little different.

Speaker 1 I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me, too, especially after feeling the difference in my recovery

Speaker 2 the last two weeks.

Speaker 3 I didn't really think about it either. So he was telling me that's how he did it.
I'm like, that's so smart.

Speaker 3 Cause the meat head, like most meat heads, right, they're going to think, oh, I'm off cycle or I'm on TRT. I got to train harder to keep this muscle.

Speaker 3 But really, it's like, if you train harder and you're on less gear, you're actually not going to recover and you're actually going to lose more muscle.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you guys what I just experienced. So I

Speaker 1 normally I do eight sets of each muscle group per workout and I do each workout twice a week during the, when I'm on cycle. This one, I just dropped it by about, what is it, 25%.

Speaker 1 So I was doing six sets instead. And because, you know, I wasn't fucking running anything and my test was low, dude, I wasn't recovering.

Speaker 1 I was like, it was like, I wasn't recovering even two days after my normal day. I would repeat the workout.

Speaker 1 So I haven't been able to follow my normal training plan because I haven't been recovering in time for my next workout. So I've been having to push back all my days by like two days and shit.

Speaker 1 And it's just, now it's like kind of random because I just, I'm just still kind of doing more than my body can recover right now.

Speaker 1 So you got to listen to your body whenever it's at.

Speaker 2 Bro, Andy, that leg day we did together, I pushed it too far. My legs, I had nine days off.
I had nine days off. Like, shit, you know, holy shit.
Blood work. We did blood work that day after.

Speaker 2 Or, sorry, we did blood work the following Monday. So after that leg day, I took the three days off, then did my blood work on that Monday.
So that's when Andy came to train. So Andy's on and I'm off.

Speaker 2 I don't know how long it took him to recover. But my leg days are Saturdays.
I trained him on Thursday, trained him again Saturday, which was my wedding day that just passed.

Speaker 2 And my legs were still fucked up. Like, they weren't like crazy sore fucked up, but things still hurt.
So, I had to go a lot lighter to train like with a different kind of intensity.

Speaker 2 But I was like, fuck, dude, like that, I went too hard with Andy that day.

Speaker 2 Hey, bro.

Speaker 3 What can I say, bro?

Speaker 2 I mean, you know, training with the big dogs, bro. TRT.
I was on TRT.

Speaker 2 I was like, damn, bro, that's fine.

Speaker 2 Yo, the same thing happened to me for back day. Yeah, the same thing happened.

Speaker 3 I'm always trained back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he's at 900.

Speaker 2 Because I led the workout. I played myself.

Speaker 2 That's hilarious.

Speaker 1 Y'all are my dream rotation for legs. I got to get that shit in with y'all someday.

Speaker 2 Hell yeah. Yeah, no.
I don't even care. A lot of people

Speaker 2 with me is legs. Legs are back.

Speaker 2 Fuck yo,

Speaker 1 I would be so down. Even like the judges want me to build up my upper body more than my legs, but I just can't stop thinking about leg day.

Speaker 2 I feel like that's the one you should when you get the boys together, you have to do legs. It's like a yeah, it's a malt.

Speaker 2 There's a different kind of competitive competitiveness that comes with it. Like

Speaker 2 I'm training to match Andy's intensity and vice versa. So it's like, I know this guy's here to fucking train.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to be here to fucking train.

Speaker 2 And then I ended up fucking sore for nine plus days.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, no, I agree.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm going to ask one last question before Andy dips because someone actually asked about prep cycles.

Speaker 1 His name is Jacob.

Speaker 1 But so the reason I'm asking this is because I always had the perception that all coaches kind of ran the same shit until I did this last show, these last shows with Patrick, and I wasn't running the same thing.

Speaker 1 I was running some different, a little bit different, you know, and some compounds that were out.

Speaker 1 So I'm curious, what do y'all's average prep or most recent average prep look like in terms of the compound use?

Speaker 3 You want to say like maybe six weeks out, two, we'll probably do two, like we'll say like two weeks out because that's when all orals are deployed most likely.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, two weeks out is fine. You can just stay in it.
And then, cause

Speaker 1 I know there's been some extra super droll use recently amongst a lot of coaches too. So I'm kind of curious about that.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 Mine was

Speaker 3 40 MCGs a clean, 600 megs of test a week.

Speaker 2 Uh, was that prop?

Speaker 3 Uh, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 Uh, sip,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 3 450 megs of not 450, I'm sorry, 300 megs of primo per week, 400 megs of mass prop per week, um,

Speaker 3 200 trend per week. We actually bumped it for the Olympia because we're on 100 the whole year.

Speaker 3 And he's like, for the Olympia, he's like, if you you handle trend well, which I do, I don't really have any negative side effects.

Speaker 3 He's like, let's bump it to a 200 and see how well you tolerate that. And I tolerated it well.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 three I use of GH fasted,

Speaker 3 50 megs of Winnie pre-training, 50 megs of Anivar pre-training, 10 megs of Halo pre-training, 10 megs of Super Draw pre-training.

Speaker 1 Ah, the Super Draw. There you go.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So yeah, 600 tests,

Speaker 3 300 primo, 400 mass prop, 200 megs of Trent Ace, 20 units Atlantis, three Aza GH fasted, 50 megs of Winnie pre-training, 50 megs of Anivar pre-training, 10 megs of Halo pre-training, 10 megs of Super Joel pre-training.

Speaker 3 That pre-training cocktail was something else, let me tell you.

Speaker 1 I love those, bro.

Speaker 1 Those are the best. Especially when Patrick was having me do Halo for such a long period of time pre-training.
It was so fucking nice, dude.

Speaker 3 You'd be tired of fuck.

Speaker 2 You take your hail, you're like, now I'm ready to fuck.

Speaker 3 Now I'm fucking ready.

Speaker 3 I love it.

Speaker 1 What about you, Joe?

Speaker 3 Um, for mine,

Speaker 2 it was

Speaker 2 1250 test,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 600 EQ,

Speaker 2 uh,

Speaker 2 40 milligrams Winnie,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 Prent Ace, 300 milligrams, last

Speaker 2 300 milligrams

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 2 towards the end the clean

Speaker 2 the most clean I did was 120 micrograms, but it ended around like 80 micrograms

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 gh was at 10 iu

Speaker 2 arimidex what it stayed at three uh

Speaker 2 three milligrams i was sorry one milligram three times a week

Speaker 2 I think that was it.

Speaker 2 You.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was it.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. Cool.
Cool. Yeah.
I didn't run Halo.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you didn't run Halo, right?

Speaker 1 But what were the other orals that you ran? You said. I'm trying to remember because I kind of fucking missed it.
That was my bad.

Speaker 2 No, it was the orals were Winnie.

Speaker 3 And then I just had one.

Speaker 2 And that was it.

Speaker 2 Okay. Nice.

Speaker 2 I had Annabar in the beginning, but it got taken out once I put the win.

Speaker 1 Gotcha. I would probably do the same if I had to choose.
I fucking...

Speaker 2 See, that's what I was wondering.

Speaker 1 Like, Patrick really did have me on a fucking, I guess, low prep cycle for this one. And you could tell in my physique, too, like when we were up against each other at the show.

Speaker 1 Like, I just didn't have like that.

Speaker 1 Dick skin windstrel look that I've been using.

Speaker 3 You literally had it at fucking the Steve Carr Carr show. And oh, yeah, oh, yeah, Hurricane was pretty nasty, too.

Speaker 1 Steve Carr was a huge difference from the first show in terms of the look. It was just a lot fuller and a little bit tighter.

Speaker 1 I did have like deeper glute lines, I think, in our show.

Speaker 1 And I think that's just because I was more sunken in, right? The windstroll added two pounds just overall on my physique. But I think the judges liked the windstroll look better

Speaker 1 than the non-winstrol look.

Speaker 1 and i'd say in terms of a prep cycle i feel like for most people it's a good idea yeah just try to like find that balance where like you're not fucking your joints up way too much not running it up well too once you once the winny's in you start to look fucking wild like every time we see i'm like yes this is what i needed

Speaker 3 I feel like it all kind of happens at the same time too, right?

Speaker 3 Because like you add in Winnie, you're obviously on masked, you might add in some trend, but it's like as you add those in and they actually start to work over the next two to three weeks, but you're also pulling down body fat.

Speaker 3 It's like you get leaner and you're getting harder at the same time. That's when you start seeing those daily changes, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's the sexiest thing.

Speaker 2 You just start looking unreal to yourself, like, what the fuck? You look like a cock.

Speaker 3 See, I can't really talk about this.

Speaker 3 I feel like I can't really talk about stuff like this for too long because I'll be like, I want to get on prep. Like, I'll get FOMO.

Speaker 3 I miss, I already miss prepping, you know?

Speaker 1 You're getting FOMO way too quickly, bro. You literally just came off of Olympia and you're already missing some brochures.

Speaker 2 I love being big, too. But I like,

Speaker 3 I don't know. I just like getting nasty peeled.
Like, I like the,

Speaker 3 I don't know. I like competing and like being peeled and like all that.
I love being huge too, don't get me wrong, but I don't know. I think I just love competing.

Speaker 3 So, like, when I'm sitting in the offseason, I'm like, fuck, this is fucking ass, bro. I want to compete already, bro.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 I'm already looking at it. It's so exciting.
Like, I, the idea of,

Speaker 2 the idea of like, okay, I just stepped on stage. I see my flaws.
I know how to fix these flaws and make them better. Now I'm going to be huge while doing it.
I just, I love that shit.

Speaker 3 I love working towards something.

Speaker 2 Like, I know,

Speaker 2 and you can't, once you, whatever you do the offseason, that's what you're going to have. You put on a little bit of tissue when you're in prep, but it's not near as much as you can in the offseason.

Speaker 2 So, like, I don't know. I was probably being fucking huge.
but that's,

Speaker 3 I think, my biggest thing is, like, I'm just impatient, you know. Like, I love the offseason too.
Obviously, like, that's where you make all your improvements.

Speaker 3 You're strong, the food is high, like, you feel like a tank. Um, I just get impatient, though.
Like, you know, like a good offseason, like you said, Joe, six to eight months.

Speaker 3 I'm like, I want to compete right now. I don't, I hate waiting.
So, I get like, I get antsy, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that.

Speaker 1 I don't get answers.

Speaker 2 Especially when you just sell it, if I compete too early, i'm not gonna change like i know i won't have anything to go any different so i'm like for me i'm like i can't get excited for a prep that i'm not gonna look any different

Speaker 3 i get excited about no honestly look different bro that's i i need that perspective bro honestly because i'm like ready to jump the gun like hey let's apply for the arnold right now probably's like bro you only been off season for a month like you need a longer time

Speaker 1 i feel like i have like the fucking demon the angel on my shoulders and like the demons telling me now you want to prep, and then the angels tell me no

Speaker 2 offseason.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 a little super droll.

Speaker 2 Fuck.

Speaker 1 All right. One last question before Andy dips.
But what would you guys attest?

Speaker 1 What would you guys attest the most,

Speaker 1 supplementation included, to keeping your health in check?

Speaker 3 Are you talking ancillaries too

Speaker 1 yeah top top three to five things

Speaker 3 um i would definitely well we talked about this on the last one remember you're like what health supplements do you take and we're like obviously fish oil k2 d3

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 3 i think stuff to manage uh blood glucoca is really good too like metformin berberine especially if you're using gh um obviously because nobody wants to get soft in the offseason it just makes for a much harder prep umberine and honestly i think just gut health is like so important.

Speaker 3 Like, I'm actually going to start adding in like kombucha and sauerkraut in a lot of my meals because I learned it from Tuttle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, from Tuttle same.

Speaker 3 And like, with the food being this high, I'm like, if my gut is not absorbing this properly or it's irritated or inflamed, like

Speaker 3 if that goes, if you start prep with a messed up gut, like, I mean, you guys already know, like, it's not going to end well. So, just making sure my gut is healthy.
So, obviously, BPC 157 orally,

Speaker 3 zinc, carnosine, betane,

Speaker 3 apple cider vinegar, of course,

Speaker 3 just everything I can to like make sure my gut is good. And then also the sauerkraut because it's fermented.
And then, obviously,

Speaker 2 I have like

Speaker 3 sourdough bread in all my meals because that's fermented as well.

Speaker 3 So I'm able to push those carbs really, really high. And my gut never really feels like

Speaker 3 upset at all.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So yeah, that's a good answer.

Speaker 1 It'd be the main thing

Speaker 1 shit.

Speaker 2 I don't really have much to add to what Andy said other than honestly, one of the biggest tools that's helped me and I've found this out just this year is just keeping my cardio in.

Speaker 2 Like I do cardio daily and this is the best I've ever felt. And I feel like

Speaker 2 body in motion handles

Speaker 2 partitioning nutrients and digestion and everything the best because you stay running like a machine. So

Speaker 2 that little bit of cardio every single day with 25, 30 minutes, be a simple walk outside, but just moving your body, especially the heavier you are, you're going to feel incredible.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 it helps with blood pressure too.

Speaker 1 1,000% agreement.

Speaker 3 Nutrient partitioning. It's underrated.
So many good things just for movement. Just don't be lazy in offseason.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 2 You move your body. Imagine someone like Welf.

Speaker 1 I always think just like, imagine someone just throwing in a 10-minute walk after every single meal.

Speaker 1 That's bro, not only do you get your cardiovascular benefits, but you also have glucose disposal benefit, like huge glucose disposal benefits. Not only that, maintaining managing blood sugar.

Speaker 3 Um, the appetite aspect as well.

Speaker 3 Like, when food gets really high and you're in an extended, prolonged off-season, like it'll get to a point where you're like, bro, I am not trying to eat, I have no appetite.

Speaker 3 But it's like, if you're constantly moving, that metabolism is constantly cranking, you're going to like look forward to that next meal. Like, all so

Speaker 3 it helps with the appetite, too.

Speaker 1 I just got to brag for a second before y'all check out these fucking markers.

Speaker 3 Check out these sexy markers, green, green beans, green beans, baby

Speaker 2 lipoproteins at 50.

Speaker 1 Fucking HDL is like what 58 or something, LDL is like 80.

Speaker 2 Hey, how much you want, how much you want to bid, Nile?

Speaker 3 My cholesterol is uh better than yours, and this was uh taking five days post-Olympia. What? Let me see, no way.

Speaker 1 I call BS on this shit, Bro.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 Let me get to my cholesterol here.

Speaker 2 What was your LDL?

Speaker 1 LDL is 80.

Speaker 3 Mine's 44.

Speaker 1 44 milligrams per deciliter?

Speaker 3 Yeah. What was your LDL to HDL ratio?

Speaker 1 Holy shit. Mine was 1.4?

Speaker 3 Mine's 1.6. So pretty similar.
But you know what was really fucking

Speaker 3 in my cholesterol was my HDL, bro, was

Speaker 3 so low. So problem was like, we got it.
It was 27.

Speaker 3 Okay, okay, but that's obviously Rafty Olympia. Like, we're not, you know, we don't have a ton of fats in the diet, low body fat.
So we just cranked up the fish oil, added in two ground beef meals.

Speaker 3 And we're like, yeah.

Speaker 1 How much fish oil did you crank it up to?

Speaker 3 I take the Revive one. I think it's...

Speaker 3 I take four capsules morning and four capsules at night. It's like eight grams.
It's eight grams, eight grams, something. It's pretty high.
Eight to 10 grams.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was going to recommend going up to 10 grams, but you're basically doing that.

Speaker 3 I mean, honestly, I don't, there's no negative research about like ramping up fish oil. It's only going to help.

Speaker 1 Right. So especially if you're not taking it all at once, so you don't have some like, I don't know, digestive diarrhea or some shit.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Sometimes I do.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 I mean, it probably won't be much of a difference, but I do like getting the Carlson's like finest fish oil that's bottled.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 That way it's not in pills. So there's a lot less of a risk of it being oxidized.

Speaker 3 That's smart.

Speaker 1 Yeah, keeping it in the fridge.

Speaker 3 It's fucking nice. Damn.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Plus, I just use a spray bottle instead, so I spray it on some of the food and it makes it taste even better. Oh, instead of having to just swallow it pill-wise.

Speaker 3 Another

Speaker 3 answer to your question, glutathione for sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Glutathione has been my lifesaver for sure.

Speaker 1 I've been doing that for like five years, man. And I feel like I've gotten, I'm pretty sure I've only gotten actually sick one or two times in the last five years from just

Speaker 1 my excessive eye.

Speaker 3 This fucking monster right here,

Speaker 3 bro. Fucking machine.
You know what, you know what, you know what a skit Joe should do for like a reel to get hella views?

Speaker 3 Would be like he puts his phone in the fridge and he's like, POV, what my fridge sees at one in the morning, and it's Joe opening the fridge, eating, getting his last meal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, fucking take

Speaker 2 sweet.

Speaker 1 nice

Speaker 1 all right, maybe

Speaker 1 yeah, I actually really wanted to uh keep this podcast under two hours, but I failed.

Speaker 1 So if you guys are down, maybe we'll just rapid fire a few of these questions just so some of them can get it answered because I feel bad that I'm I have a bad habit of doing this every podcast.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, guys. No, I just like to take all the attention for myself.

Speaker 2 Um, I saw autonomous oh, shit, I got well. We answered,

Speaker 1 I mean, the honest is we answered a a lot of these questions already, so which is cool. Valhalla CFM asks, Can I borrow some of your shoulders, please? I'll give them back after my show.

Speaker 3 Hey, wait, no, I asked you. Where's your friend?

Speaker 2 I gotta find it.

Speaker 2 Definitely you.

Speaker 2 I asked the question.

Speaker 3 I asked the question, bro. Go find the question.

Speaker 1 All right, I'll find a question.

Speaker 1 I'm finding it. I'm finding it.

Speaker 3 Hey, Joe, I know you don't speak Spanish or you might, but that little thing in the background, does that say like love food?

Speaker 2 Live, bro,

Speaker 3 live, love, eat.

Speaker 2 Let's go. Yeah, come here.
Food is to live. Live.

Speaker 3 Amor, love.

Speaker 1 Amor is love.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's eat. To eat.

Speaker 3 That's binge.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. That's fucking sad.
I'm half Hispanic. So I have to know what this shit means.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm 0.01% Black.

Speaker 1 I think I am. I can't find your question, Andrew.

Speaker 2 I remember I told my older brother, like, I bet you I could touch the rim. He's like, no, you fucking can't.
This is like when I was 20 years old. I was like, yes, I fucking can.

Speaker 2 And I touched the rim, and I was like, I think I'm part black, at least a little bit.

Speaker 3 You're like,

Speaker 3 you're like Paul on Brochet. You're like, when I was 20, I used to be able to touch the net.
Like, it was 30, 30 fucking years ago.

Speaker 3 I can't do it now.

Speaker 2 i definitely can't do it now

Speaker 3 yeah your question's not on either pages i andy i asked um his cap who's joe's favorite classic physique pro

Speaker 1 oh andy it's niall right nihni yeah

Speaker 2 good answer good answer

Speaker 1 fuck andy body bag

Speaker 1 Baguio, the coach, asked both of you guys, is IGF1 in the market, IGF-1 in the market is legit or a waste of money and better just to use HGH?

Speaker 3 Well, honestly, I've never used IGF. I don't know anyone that's used IGF, and I don't even know where to get it.
It is to be quite honest.

Speaker 1 I used IGF.

Speaker 2 Oh, you? I was just asked that question. I've never used it either.

Speaker 3 Maybe that's what we're missing, Joe. Maybe we'll use it.

Speaker 1 I've used a juicy amount of IGF. Help me blow up my legs, brother.
Definitely did.

Speaker 1 But the only other explanation, if it wasn't the IGF, and it was LR32, which people think is kind of bunk, would be my training. It's the only other thing I'd really changed.

Speaker 1 I did change training a lot.

Speaker 1 I used the frequency of twice, up the volume quite a lot.

Speaker 1 Stop hitting the first set to failure.

Speaker 3 Facts.

Speaker 2 How can I explain that to people? Not every set is supposed to be failure. It can be a working set.
You can still have a few reps left of the change.

Speaker 2 But if you do every cell you set to failure, you're going to burn out your CNS and you can't.

Speaker 2 maximize the muscle as a whole because bodybuilding is about hitting every angle of the muscle with volume and intensity.

Speaker 2 So, if you get to your upper chest, you're not going to get the most out of your pec major. There's no way.
You just burned yourself out. Yep.
So, you're always going to last.

Speaker 1 Right. You got to hit every top set.

Speaker 1 Yes. You hit too hard your first sets, your last top sets are fucked.
And then they're a waste of time.

Speaker 1 Mavin Davila says, yo, Joe, my boy made it. All caps.

Speaker 3 I made it.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 you come to the transparent and you fucking made it

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 1 a lot of these we asked already which is good uh another one of the same questions that you we were asked on other podcasts um bethlehem the beast asked do you plan on being the next mutant not in a disrespectful way at all though not in a disrespectful way joe is the mutant already

Speaker 1 He's definitely

Speaker 1 for sure.

Speaker 2 I want to be known as the machine at the next mutant.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 2 What I came up as

Speaker 3 Joe is a mutant. He's not the mutant.
He's just a mutant in general.

Speaker 3 He's a machine and a mutant.

Speaker 2 I like the whole machine thing that they gave me because machines, all they do is work.

Speaker 2 And I know how hard I worked to get to where I'm at, so I want to continue just being the machine. That's it.
I will be the machine.

Speaker 2 It's already there.

Speaker 3 How the fuck do we get a nickname, Niall? That's what I'm fucking trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 I already got given a nickname because

Speaker 1 people were a little bit racist. A bunch of white people would always just call me Goku.
Goku. Like, literally, people who don't even know me on social media.
Oh,

Speaker 3 that's your handle. IABB Pro Goku.

Speaker 1 Everyone just called me Goku.

Speaker 3 Well, fuck, I don't have one.

Speaker 1 It's like, you see, like back in the day, too, like you're in Texas in the like 2000s, early 2000s.

Speaker 1 You're like around a bunch of white people and like, you're just the only Asian guy that just had, like, tended to lift.

Speaker 1 You look like Goku, I guess.

Speaker 2 They gave me that thick name. I'll take it.
I'll fucking take it. The show I competed with, uh, Andy,

Speaker 2 the head judge of Eric. Yeah.
When they gave me my award, they said Joe the Machine or Joseph the Machine Palacios. I was like, fuck yeah.
I always wanted a name.

Speaker 2 There we go. That's awesome, bro.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we need to figure out a name for Andy.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Drop in the comments below.

Speaker 1 The midget killer.

Speaker 3 The midget.

Speaker 2 Um, my painting partner, Paul,

Speaker 2 we were getting ready for a show together. It was our first time ever competing against each other,

Speaker 2 and he was posing.

Speaker 2 I called him, I randomly called him the tatted tank, so that's what he got his little nickname. I gave that to him.

Speaker 1 Did you say the tatted tint?

Speaker 2 Like, like

Speaker 2 fire.

Speaker 2 Fire.

Speaker 2 You gotta. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Now I'm getting Andy's yawns.

Speaker 3 You gotta ask Joe the podcast question, bro, to finish the pod.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll ask it after we ask maybe one more Q ⁇ A or two more Q ⁇ As. Got you.

Speaker 1 Most of these we already covered, so that's a good thing. Carol Lynn, Carol Lysinski asks, do you guys think everyone can be an open bodybuilder or not?

Speaker 3 I think everyone probably has the potential. I think everyone has the potential to compete as an open bodybuilder.
I don't like turning pro and being a competitive pro, that's a whole nother ballgame.

Speaker 3 Just with obviously genetics is going to be the number one thing. How far you're willing to push food, drugs, how far you're willing to push your body.

Speaker 2 Obviously, you know, bone structure.

Speaker 3 There's so many things that come into it.

Speaker 3 I think anyone can try,

Speaker 3 but like being a competitive pro or turning pro, that's like you got to have some form of really, really good genetics and kind of be born to do it.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. I don't believe anybody could be a pro.
I don't, let alone an open pro. I think there's a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Especially not an open pro. No.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There is a genetic component to being able to put on this much muscle too.

Speaker 2 Like, like I said, when I was in high school, I saw like in hindsight, holy shit, like there is. Something to the genetic thing.
Like everyone was doing what I was doing. I was doing nothing special.

Speaker 2 My body responded. And I've worked with clients that they just do not have the genetics to put on muscle at all.

Speaker 2 But you can put them to anything and they'll put on a little bit, but nothing to the extent of what's needed to be a professional. So, yeah, I don't believe they can.
They can.

Speaker 2 But you only know when you try.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 That's facts. It's facts, man.

Speaker 1 It's well put. Yurdick Nick asks, if you guys could start from the beginning again, how would you go about it?

Speaker 3 Joe is lucky because he waited.

Speaker 3 Um, I would have waited to hop on cycle. I think I was like really, really young.
I would have waited till I'm at least like 21, 22, or something like that.

Speaker 3 Um, and then I would have hired a really, really good coach from the beginning instead of just like wasting time with like

Speaker 3 coaches that aren't as knowledgeable or like low, lower-level coaches because that's all I could afford.

Speaker 3 Or, um, I would have tried to hire a very good, reputable coach like right from the start, because they'll save you so much time with like trial and error.

Speaker 2 I would have just

Speaker 2 changed my mindset when it came to training. I did too much too early on from what I could recover from, and I just ignored my body.
And it led to

Speaker 2 my shoulder injuries and stuff. And that's why no one ever sees me do like a barbell press or dumbbells and stuff because I had shoulder surgery on both shoulders.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's why I'm a machine-based guy on most things

Speaker 2 and if i would have

Speaker 2 been smarter with my approach to training then i would have been in a healthier spot physically with my mobility and just movement patterns and what i can do so i'm pretty proud of myself what i've accomplished but i it would have been nice to not have any pain whatsoever

Speaker 1 yeah Bro, you were literally, we are literally the same person, except you're just like way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way bigger and better than me

Speaker 1 it's crazy i did like i up both my shoulders from college just bench pressing wrong and also trying to like i used to dumbbell press like 100s to 120s now i can't even really overhead press 80s double 80 dumbbells like properly just because the shoulders are so fucked yeah

Speaker 1 And it took me a while to learn the whole like, don't go to failure so fucking early, man. Like, just

Speaker 2 fucking it's, you know, belongs to

Speaker 1 the entire workout, the entire workout.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, um, I think that I think we can have one last QA that kind of ties into that. Damon's 89 asks, did you change your approach to your training or cycle to bring up weak body parts?

Speaker 3 Oh, 100%.

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 3 my training now is like ridiculously slow control, almost like it's, it's exaggerated how slow it is. Um, but especially for my back, I had done deadlifts, barbell rows, fucking rack pulls.

Speaker 3 I tried everything to bring up my back.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't until I learned how to train it properly by using proper cues, such as, you know, scapular retraction, driving with the elbow, you know, tucking in the elbow, like all these little cues, right?

Speaker 3 I didn't even learn that until like a year ago, two years ago. So it took me literally, I was T-bar rowing five plates, but I had no back.

Speaker 3 So then I like, I'm like, all right, I'm going to literally back this down. I'm not going to increase the weight until I feel it all in my back and nothing else.

Speaker 3 Not in my biceps, not in my forearms, not in my rear delts. I want to feel this only in my lats.
And so it wasn't until like I

Speaker 3 changed my form completely, cut the weight in like half and really started to feel it is when I started to have my back grow. And then I kind of honestly applied that to everything else.

Speaker 3 Like I honestly, I noticed the lighter I train with more control, the better my contractions are, the more I grow, honestly. So,

Speaker 1 you also watched my YouTube video with Andy that I threw up last week. Yeah, I watched it.

Speaker 3 Hilarious.

Speaker 1 We did do a lot of cues, though. Did talk about a lot of our cues.

Speaker 2 Same with me, cues and tension points, and volume overall. I always trained kind of like Dorian, he was my favorite bodybuilder.
Um, so

Speaker 2 going into this, I believed in his training. I mean, I still do, but there's a point of where

Speaker 2 without a certain level of precision that I'm bringing up, like say for example, my quads, I lack in the sweep.

Speaker 2 Genetically, the way weight sits on me and stuff, it goes straight to my adductors and teardrops.

Speaker 2 So I need to be under really good control on the eccentric portion of the movement, as well as even the concentric portion.

Speaker 2 Instead of trying to go for a super heavy set of like eight to ten, like even that time of retention with like 15 to 20 reps on that little point in my leg the whole time has really brought out my sweep and just certain body parts too.

Speaker 2 People ask about my

Speaker 2 shoulders and stuff.

Speaker 2 Side laterals is no different. I'm making sure that I'm using the side of my delt, not my traps, not my front delt to help or anything.

Speaker 2 Feeling out the tension points, like not fall, I'm going to stretch my muscle before bringing it back up, but never losing that tension. And yeah, just doing more volume sets.

Speaker 2 So not taking so many sets to failure.

Speaker 2 Just being smarter with feeling my training compared to just sticking and marrying to one style.

Speaker 2 So, for example, my tempo will pick up on some movements, some movements will go a little bit slower, but I literally just feel the movement out and then work with whatever weight I need to.

Speaker 2 I don't really care about numbers.

Speaker 2 I don't go in with a plan of I'm doing this many sets or this many, whatever. I just go by what my body feels and it's enhanced my physique dramatically.

Speaker 2 Hell yeah, hell yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you mind me asking, by the way, how low your food went on prep for Texas Pro and Tampa Pro?

Speaker 2 I think it was,

Speaker 2 I'm not, okay. The lowest, the whole, I don't know what the macros are for it, but the lowest, lowest that it got to was

Speaker 2 two meals, two of the meat meals were,

Speaker 2 sorry, yeah, two of the meat meals had 75 grams of rice. Two of them had no carbs at all.
And both cream of rice meals got down to 60 grams.

Speaker 2 The protein amounts were 10 ounces of beef, 10 ounces of chicken.

Speaker 2 Three meals were chicken. One meal was beef, 10 ounces.

Speaker 2 And then the cream of rice

Speaker 2 was obviously just two scoops of protein. But

Speaker 2 the fats were pretty low.

Speaker 2 And I had three chicken meals, one beef meal.

Speaker 2 Two carbless meals out of six meals.

Speaker 3 Pretty low.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that rice wasn't cooked too, right?

Speaker 2 That measured?

Speaker 2 75.

Speaker 1 75 grams of cooked rice.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's like what? 20 grams of carbless shit.

Speaker 3 20 grams. Yeah.

Speaker 2 20 grams. Holy fuck, dude.

Speaker 1 Yeah, under 100 grams of carbs. Bro, it's digging.
Total. Yeah.
That's fucking savage.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I told you, I suffer when I go down to get peeled, but it's all right, dude. Same.
It looks good.

Speaker 2 Oh, fuck yeah, bro. Yeah, I look fucking savage.

Speaker 2 All right. All right.

Speaker 1 I ask this to every guest at the end of every podcast,

Speaker 1 just like Andy.

Speaker 1 If you were to disappear from the world tomorrow and you had one message you could send to the entire world today, what would the message be?

Speaker 2 Whatever that goal or dream is in your heart,

Speaker 2 never give it up for anybody or anything because

Speaker 2 true happiness lies within that dream dream and a lot of people let it go well keep going

Speaker 1 and that's pretty much it that's really well said

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 i had that conversation with someone um my best friend actually just this weekend because it's the current person that he was with was like not supporting his his goals and his career and i'm just like bro that's like your number one thing you need to have

Speaker 1 you need to have your purpose and you need to stick to that and that's that's your number one and your partner if it's the right partner for you is going to support that wholeheartedly

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 true happiness lies a dream. Like I said,

Speaker 2 you're giving up that dream for someone else. You'll never find happiness because that person just took it away from you and you're going to resent them.

Speaker 2 No matter how much you love them, there will be resentment because they took it away. You allowed them to.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I'm like right on board with Joe's message because I think we find fulfillment in chasing that dream. And I think true happiness comes from doing things that fulfill us, right?

Speaker 3 Notice the most unhappy people are they're working a job that's unfulfilling

Speaker 3 or they're in a relationship that's unfulfilling.

Speaker 3 And then the happiest people are people like us that are doing something that truly fulfills us, something that we get to be excited to jump out of bed every day and we get to do, right?

Speaker 3 So I'm right there with Joe. If you are doing something that fulfills you, don't give it up for anything or anyone.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man i i i remember waking up every day for a job i didn't want to do and just being looking forward to this what i'm doing right now and wishing this would be my life and then it got to the point where it's like well why the don't i just make it my life you know like people are living my dream and it's because they went for it they believe that they could why am i any different so here we are

Speaker 1 Awesome. Well, this was a fucking sick podcast, boys.

Speaker 1 Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I really appreciate you guys for coming on. I think this is going to provide a lot of value for a lot of people.
So appreciate you having me, man. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Damn, bro. This is fucking sick.
And it's also really awesome to see how fucking big your arms are.

Speaker 1 Massive.

Speaker 2 Like that?

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 3 That's a TRT arm, too.

Speaker 2 TRT arm.

Speaker 1 All right. Where can everybody find you? You got a place? Anything you want to promote to?

Speaker 2 My IG, Joe of the machine i mean pretty easy to find um i have a youtube which under joseph lacios that should be easier to find now um yeah just support me there i'm hardly on tick tock i should be on tick tock but i'm not it's one of those new era things

Speaker 2 it's so fucking hard for me to do but eventually i'll get on there i'm sure but i'm not on there i am i have an account but there's nothing on there and uh yeah that's it um if you support me you know feel free to support my wife as well she's on her little journey at Ash Lacios.

Speaker 2 That's her name, Ash, plus Lacios. My lost name, pretty much.
And yeah, watch my boy grow up, Jax.

Speaker 2 I'd love to, I love posting him and hearing comments about them more than my bodybuilding stuff because that's what matters more to me.

Speaker 2 My physique is my physique, but my family is everything. So

Speaker 2 thank you guys. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's one of my favorite things that you've talked about, too, which I'm fucking, dude. We could talk about it shit for six hours, to be honest, but

Speaker 1 next time,

Speaker 2 next time, hell yeah, I'll be back.

Speaker 2 Hell yeah,

Speaker 1 Andy P bodybuilding, baby.

Speaker 3 Yep, yep, y'all already know where to find me.

Speaker 1 Yep, with the Buckeye Brownies, yep, yep.

Speaker 2 All right, I'm a special Buckeye.

Speaker 1 I'll catch y'all soon.

Speaker 2 So, guess

Speaker 2 oh man, all right, later, y'all.

Speaker 3 All right, brothers,

Speaker 2 peace, guys.