The Sound of Fallout: From Iconic Games to Prestige TV

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A quick heads up. This episode is about a video game and TV show that features scary monsters and sci-fi violence.

While this episode has clean language, there are sounds in it that might be too much for little ears.

You're listening

to 20,000 Hertz.

The stories behind the world's most iconic and fascinating sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor.

Before 20,000 or my sound agency de facto sound existed, I worked as a senior sound designer and mixer for the Discovery Channel and all the networks under its umbrella.

Back then, Discovery was based in the Washington, D.C. area.
DC is an amazing city, and one very cool bonus of living there was that it was also the setting of my favorite game at the time, Fallout 3.

I could literally navigate the National Mall because I knew it so well from playing Fallout. And it turned out the publisher publisher of Fallout, Bethesda Softworks, was also based in the DC area.

A few years went by, and I eventually left Discovery to start de facto sound. But I never stopped loving Fallout.

And one day, I worked up the courage to email the audio director at Bethesda Softworks, Mark Lampert. I sheepishly explained that I'm a sound designer myself and asked if he wanted to meet up.

I think it was just an email that it started with. That's Mark, who is the audio director on Fallout 3, 4, and 76, and now is a principal sound designer at Bethesda.

It was just, hey, I'm Dallas. I do this.
You know, I live in the area, work at this studio over here. We should meet for lunch sometime.
That's kind of what I remember.

It was a completely friendly, not asking for anything. We're two people who should know one another.
Yeah, on my side, what was interesting is I was like an Uber fan of Fallout at this point.

So I'm glad I played it cool.

So we met up and Mark gave me a tour of Bethesda Game Studios. At one point, he walked me into a screening room, basically a small theater they used for team reviews.

And that is where I remember you saying, do you mix 5.1 by chance? And I was like, oh yeah, I do a lot of discovery work and everything that we do for the most part is 5.1.

And you're like, I have this trailer for this other game, Fallout New Vegas. Would you be interested in doing that? And I remember internally exploding with that.
Like no,

I'm excited, just as excited now telling it. There was no agenda other than to meet an audio hero who's working on one of the greatest games that I've ever experienced in my life.

And by the end of our first meeting, you asked if I wanted to mix the first Fallout New Vegas gameplay trailer. And it was the biggest whiplash in my career.

But externally, I was like, play it cool, play it cool, play it cool. And I was just like, hmm, yeah, I bet I could do that.
And I put everything I could into that thing.

Here's the trailer that I mixed and sound designed, which shows the player taking on mutant creatures, robots, rocket launchers, explosive lasers, and more.

And they single ancient class.

I didn't realize that was such a pivotal hangout. Oh, it was huge.
I just wanted to meet somebody that I respected.

And then I walk out the door with a trailer that turned into, gosh, 30 more projects for many other Fallout DLCs and some Fallout 4, some Elder Scrolls, all of the other studios around the world, like Dishonored and Evil Within and Wolfenstein.

It just like kept going from that point. So it was a huge pivotal moment.

But this episode isn't about the trailers. It's about the sonic world of Fallout, from the earliest games through the prestige television series on Amazon.

So for anyone who's not familiar with the franchise, let me paint the picture. Fallout takes place in an alternate version of the United States, where history split from hours after World War II.

Instead of moving into the digital age like our world, society kept its 1950s culture, design, and values, but powered everything with nuclear energy.

Then, in 2077, a massive nuclear war wiped out civilization. Some people survived in underground vaults, while others struggled on the surface.

Fallout 3, the game I started with, picks up 200 years later in the year 2277. It's a world that's frozen in this uncanny version of what people in the 1950s thought the future would would look like.

You play the game as a vault dweller emerging from your underground shelter into the ruined wasteland of America.

From there, you complete quests and scavenge for gear all while facing mutants, raiders, and robots.

The Fallout games layer real vintage music with a mix of quirky retro nostalgia, sci-fi horror, and big action. The original Fallout game came out in 1997.

Since then, the series has expanded with multiple sequels and spin-offs spin-offs and sold over 55 million copies worldwide.

In 2024, Fallout was adapted into a major TV series, which pulled in more than 100 million viewers and got 17 Emmy nominations.

But let's go back to when Mark Lampert first got the job on Fallout 3. Back then, he was already a huge fan of the series.

I played the original Fallout 1 and 2 back at university. And then I worked at a studio in Austin, Texas for about two and a half years.
That studio closed down. We were all laid off.

And it was very quick. It was like in a week and a half.
I found the job posting for Bethesda Game Studios looking for their first in-house audio person.

And I said, I've played all those games. And so it was an easy phone interview.
Because I'd already played it. I had opinions of what I liked, what I didn't like.

I could speak to all those kind of things. And And then flew up there and interviewed.
And it was within like two weeks or something. I was there.

Because I said yes to something and showed up, right place, right time. And all of a sudden, all this amazing work is coming my way.

A lot of which I really was not ready for or even really qualified for. But I was there.
I'm going to do it. And I'm going to figure it out.
And I don't care how many versions it takes.

Sound is essential to the world building in Fallout. While other futuristic games might have spaceships and teleportation devices, Fallout is very analog.

The computers use CRT screens, the wearable devices are big and bulky, and the environments are all very industrial. Take the vault, for example.

There are these massive hydraulic doors all over the place. I didn't want to make them sci-fi.
I didn't want them to sound sleek or synthetic or just over-designed.

It should sound like what it is doing. It is two big pieces of metal.
They're incredibly heavy, so there's some sort of hydraulic assist.

And maybe there's a pressure release when it reaches the extent of its travel or it fully closes.

Do I have any recordings of my own that involve anything like that? I'll use that first.

If I don't have that, I'll go to sound libraries and I'm going to pick little pieces and rearrange them and mash them into something new and just get the sound of that door.

Compared to their peers in television and film, video game sound designers have very little control over how often a sound will be heard, and they have to keep that in mind when designing these sounds.

Players are going to do this a lot. We don't know how much it's going to happen.
It's up to the player. The player has total freedom.

They could come in and out of some facility and open the same door over and over and over again.

Or pick up some crucial item and drop it hundreds of times.

If that's likely to happen, I'll want something to sound just very plain. I don't want to constantly be showing off, hey, look at all this cool stuff that sounds doing it.
We want to support the game.

The player does not need to fall in love with the sound of each and every footstep. But just because it's not drawing your attention, that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work.

In Fallout 3, there are about 250 individual footstep sounds.

These vary based on whether you're walking, running, landing, or sneaking on wood, grass, gravel, broken concrete, solid concrete, hollow metal, solid metal, and the list goes on.

It's strangely a lot of work for something unbelievably mundane. You hear it so much, and it is really worth spending a lot of time on.

Because if there is anything standout about any of the individual samples that make up those footsteps of walking on dirt in default leather boots, if there's like the tiniest squeak of a shoe in one of those, you're gonna hear it eventually.

You're gonna get to hear this weird rhythm or this weird musicality that you don't want. And you go in and you shave off that rough edge, or you find another sample that'll work better.

When you break down the sounds in this game, you have this massive bed of the everyday, the familiar, very believable.

And then punctuated in little spots around that, here and there are those really special moments, or the really special device

or weapon

or suit of armor or chain reaction that the player causes.

Then I think it's time to start playing with synthesizers, otherworldly stuff, really twist and mangle stuff, so that those things can stand out when they matter.

In the game, the way you control things in your environment is with a device called the Pip Boy. It's a bulky, wearable computer that straps to your character's wrist.

For the player, it acts as your menu screen, where you can see your stats, check the map, and track your progress. There's no touchscreen.

To use use the device, your character turns knobs and pushes buttons, each of which required a sound.

The source of the Pit Boy sound itself was nothing but fun because you look around the room, wherever you're sitting, wherever you're listening to this from, and you can find plenty of devices that make a click, cover a pop, or a little chirp, and all of that stuff is great raw material to create some sort of fantasy device with.

And a lot of it is like an old gaming PC tower that I had.

So a lot of the hard drive ticks ticks that you hear the little reading a hard drive platter that's just an old 7200 rpm hard drive booting up

and it was used again and again and again every time you flip from one page to another in the pip boy um firing off a little sputter of those hard drive tick sounds as if it's reading something inside.

The goal is always to make it very mechanical, very analog, like this thing probably gets hot when it's been on and sitting on your forearm for a while.

Another important piece of technology in Fallout is the power armor. It's a mechanized combat suit, almost like a bulkier version of what Iron Man wears.

It's pretty rare, but when you find it, you become nearly invincible. In Fallout 3, putting on the suit was instantaneous,

but in later games, it became more of a process. We wanted it to be like this vehicle you get into.

That was a tremendous amount of work by the team to figure out not just how does this thing open up, but when the player gets into it, how does it completely change the experience?

How does your view change? On the sound side, how does your sound change? You can play the game while you're in the suit of armor.

And you hear it a lot from the outside because you can always pop the camera out in our games into third person.

And then again, that sort of hydraulic release

when he would get into the suit as it closes around him.

Pulling the fusion core or jamming a new one in.

You know, those became big moments for people in the game because you could run this thing out of power or have it be damaged and have to leave it somewhere.

Go find another fusion core and then find your way back to it, and then re-energize it and get back in.

And you're back on the rails again.

In Fallout, you mostly wander the wasteland alone, but sometimes you'll encounter a non-player character or NPC who can join you for a while.

And by far, the most popular NPC is a German Shepherd named Dog Meat.

Dog Meat has appeared in every main game in the series, and players love him. Fallout designer Chris Taylor once said, quote, We never expected that Dog Meat would become such a popular character.

I always intended that the various NPCs that joined up with the player would come to a violent end. I was shocked when I heard of all of the work people went through to keep Dog Meat alive to the end.

The sound of Dog Meat, as much as possible, we got from the real source, which was one of the designers' dog, a German shepherd named River.

Awesome dog. And we got to go follow River around.
Joel would be like, hey, we're going to go take River out to this park. Do you want to come along with your recording gear?

And we'll try to get some stuff.

Dogs do not necessarily behave and follow your commands and sit and face the microphone.

Stop making other sounds.

But nevertheless, so we'd throw the frisbee.

And later on, did more recording sessions where Joel would bring the dog to work and bring bring him some like raw rib meat.

So the dog eating or attacking, a lot of that stuff is river just settling down to lunch.

Since the time Mark joined Fallout back in the mid-aughts, this franchise has gotten bigger and bigger. And like The Last of Us and Halo, it eventually made the leap to prestige television.

But how do you translate the sound of a game with all of its constraints to the sound of a television series? And he's just practically eating the microphone, making all these throat-gurgly sounds.

And it adds this great comedy level to it. That's coming up after the break.

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In 2020, Amazon bought the rights to turn Fallout into a live-action series. And from the beginning, the creative team wanted to make sure they captured the unique sonic palette of the game.

Fallout takes place in the future, yet it's really stuck in the 50s in a lot of ways. That's Sue Cahill, the supervising sound editor of the Fallout television series.

So the overall sound was was not in the sci-fi digital world, it was in the analog mechanical worlds.

I interviewed Sue and the Fallout sound team on the same mix stage where they mixed the show at the NBC Universal lot in Los Angeles. You have all those iconic sounds that are from the game, right?

That all the gamers know. Like everyone knows the sound of the vaults.

And the Pip Boy.

And Mr. Handy.
Mr. Handy is a a cheerful, floating robot.
Attention, everyone! It's time to cut the cake!

So we were able to use those as our foundation, and then we were able to build it out from there.

One of the key creatives behind the Fallout Show is executive producer Jonathan Nolan, known by his collaborators as Jonah. He also directed the first three episodes.

Here's the sound designer of the Fallout series, Daniel Coleman.

Jonah's prompt on working with the sound of the show was that anything that existed from the game, we were to at least reference what the sound was in the game, whether we could use that or not, and whether it fit within the context of the show.

They gave us videos to watch, so there was like 10-hour videos of gameplay to watch.

And then Bethesda sent over a sort of sampling library library of stuff from the various different games. So for everything that we could, we would have pieces that we could use if they would work.

But since video game sounds are usually tiny little short snippets, Most of them couldn't actually be used in the show, but they worked as a great reference.

So I could listen to that and go, okay, I know what they're going for. Now I'm going to start building it.
And in some places where I could, I would steal little pieces of it.

So like in episode one, there's the big vault door opening sequence.

So I listened to all the different vault doors from the various different games and took a little starting sound that triggered my ear from Vault 111, from Fallout 4.

And then as it gets to the end of the opening, there's this great wrong from Vault 76.

So for a gamer, it's going to trigger, oh, I know that sound, even though it's a tiny little piece of the actual game sound. Here's a clip of the Vault sequence from the show.

The only thing that is probably about 90% 90%

from the game is the Pit Boy.

There's stuff that the Pit Boy is doing in our show that it doesn't do in the game, so we had to create things that sound like the Pit-Boy.

But for the most part, the Pit-Boy is all authentic sounds from the game.

To keep track of what sounds came from where, the team developed a color-coded system. We had three codes, so one color was from the game authentic.

That's sound effects re-recording mixer Steve Bussino. Another color was stuff that Daniel designed.
And another color was stuff that they had in their offline, like what came from picture editorial.

An offline edit is an early rough cut with placeholder sound effects that get swapped out by the sound team later. Many, many times I was asked, now, is any of that actually from the game?

And I could just quickly identify and demonstrate what's from the game and then what what we have added.

Despite this reverence for the sound of the games, the TV show sound team and the video game sound team never actually met each other.

So, I told the TV show crew about my history with Mark from the Fallout games and how he'd be paired with them on this podcast. I want to have him on the show, too.

I wrote him earlier today, and he was like, I would love to do this. He was like, Maybe I should watch the show now.
And I'm just like,

You have not watched it. I was like, You spent so long and you haven't seen it.
So, I've asked him to actually, if he can give me reactions to it, you got that gun sound rock.

For the television sound team, the goal was to take those short, distilled sounds that Mark and his colleagues made for the games and build them into huge cinematic moments.

For example, one classic Fallout creature is called a Yaoguai. It's basically a mutated black bear.
Here's how Mark approached this character in the Fallout 3 game.

I have to admit, I did not really bend over backward to make something too exotic for the one you hear in the game.

To me, the Yao Guai is so close to a bear. It has the profile of a bear, it is immediately recognizable as a bear.
So I didn't stray too far from that.

I stayed pretty close to sound effects library stuff.

I could bet there's probably some vocalizations from me in there to fill in where it was needed.

Because I would do that a lot too.

There's nothing like the human voice. There's no instrument you can't imitate, and therefore, the same is true for creatures, too.

Otherwise, it was largely just based on bear recordings or other similarly sized creatures.

Another classic Fallout creature is the Gulper, which is like a monstrous salamander. This thing basically lives in the swamp and therefore is shiny and wet and just sticky and oily looking.

So that's my bread and butter as a sound designer. Great.
Go straight for the mac and cheese, right?

Next time you stir mac and cheese, think about that. Just put your ear close to the pot.

That is gore made to order right there.

And just like he had done with the Yaguai, Mark also incorporated vocal sounds into the gulper.

Again, that's probably something I would have done myself. Because again, it's sometimes easier just to grab the mic and put the mic halfway under your throat and make awful sounds.

You throw it in and you go, yeah, let's not mess with genius. That works.

Both of these creatures appear in the TV show. And as it happens, they ended up being Daniel's audition for the role of sound designer.

So, on a Friday, while I was working on some other project, the two post-producers came with the Yaoguai scene and the Gulper scene.

They wanted to show me these two creatures and see what I could do with it. And we talked about the problems they were having.

Specifically with the Yaoguai, it has to be so many different things, where this is a bear and it's sick because it's been exposed to radiation. But it's this mutated monster, so it's got to be scary.

But this is a comedy, so it's sort of goofy. But we need to play Maximus and Titus's view.
You know, everything in the show is done from perspective.

So we needed to feel their fear, this incredibly huge creature.

So there were all these problems, and everything that they had worked out filled one of those niches, but they couldn't get something that was actually doing all of these things.

So Daniel holed up all weekend trying to check all of those emotional boxes through the sound design.

And when they came back on Monday morning, I presented them with five completely different versions of each of these creatures.

For the Yao Guai, I had one version that was more realistic, all built off various different bear sounds.

And I had one that was more struggling with the idea that it's sick and so it would have to struggle through everything and then roar.

And I did one version that had more of a comedic flair to it.

I had one that was a completely ridiculous, huge monster with no bear sounds whatsoever.

And I did one that mixed and matched a whole bunch of different ideas together.

And, you know, these were two post-producers. So it's not like they could listen to it and go, yeah, that's the sound of the Yao Guay.
But that's not what they were looking for.

What they were looking for was a sound designer who was very flexible and could take direction and go in whatever different vector that Joda wanted. They really wanted a collaborator on this.

And so that's how I got hired as a sound designer on it. And when the show came out, here's what the Yaoguai sounded like.

As for the Gulper, that slimy salamander creature. This was

much more of a amorphous idea because they weren't really working on this yet. So they didn't really tell me any of the backstory of it.
It was just, here you go, design this creature.

At the time, the effects for the Gulper weren't very far along yet. And what I was working with was mostly the large puppet that they used in production that eventually got completely replaced by CGI.

And so I, just like the Yao Guai, I took it in a whole bunch of different ways, knowing that what they were looking for was this ability to go in a lot of different directions.

And then we had a long break before we came back to do episode three.

And I went off to work on another project. In the meantime, they brought in sound designer Joseph Fraoli to work on a few elements, including the gulper.

And he came up with this just disgusting, burpee, gurgling, flatulent creature.

So then, when I came to actually start working on three when they locked the picture, now I had five versions that I created, the version that Joe created, the version from the video game, and I took all of these and put it together and created a creature.

And we mixed that and everybody was happy and it was great.

Later on, the visuals were finalized and with the gulper. The visual effects added a lot more character in the face than we originally had.

And we go back to the dub stage and we watched that down with the final visual effects. A dub stage is a state-of-the-art theater where the sound mix is finalized.

Basically, it's meant to replicate what an audience would hear in a theater. Now, dub stages aren't typically used for recording, but in this case, Jonah's like, you know what?

It's not really working for me anymore.

I've got an idea.

So he asks for a microphone to be put up on the stage. And he does one pass through all three scenes.
And he's just practically eating the microphone, making all these throat-gurgly sounds.

After the session, they tried mixing that voice in as is, but it felt too human for this massive creature. I went back to my edit room and I took Jonah's voice and I pitched it way down.

And I added a lot of resonance to it

and added his layer on top of all of these other layers that I had already put together. And it added this great character.

You can really tell when the gulper is chasing Thaddeus up the embankment and going, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah.

That's Jonah in there.

And it adds this great comedy level to it.

In my interview with Mark, I told him how Jonathan recorded vocal sounds for the gulper, just like he had done when he originally sound designed the creature for the games.

So very similar approach, but straight from the director in the mix room. Yeah.
Which is so cool. That's awesome.
Really? I mean, like, sometimes it's the shortest path is the answer.

But it wasn't just the creatures that required creative sound design. It was also the characters.

In the scene where we first see the Yauguai, a knight named Titus and his squire Maximus are investigating a cave.

Titus is all decked out in power armor and speaking through a microphone inside the suit. The treatment of the knight's voice was really important to the character.

Again, that's supervising sound editor Sue K. Hill.
We had a few different plug-ins we used to make it sound like the voice was coming out of a speaker out of a big metal suit.

Go see if the dormitor's in there.

But we had to treat each line individually based on the actress's performance. So it wasn't just one setting for the knight's voice.
It was all individually crafted. See anything?

And we could really use that to help the comedy.

So in this scene, for instance, with the Yao Guai, we're playing the voice as this like big booming, menacing voice, and Maximus is really threatened by it. You are in a suit through acts of bravery.

This is an act of bravery.

And then you have the reveal when he takes off the helmet, and he's just a guy in a suit with a high voice.

Where were you?

Huh?

There's always something.

This waistline sucks.

I always think about the first time I ever mixed that scene. That's dialogue and music re-recording mixer Keith Rogers.
Early on, Keith was working with temporary dialogue in that scene.

Temp dialogue serves as a placeholder until the ADR phase, which is when the actor can re-record their lines cleanly in a vocal booth. The temp was really great.
I don't know if that was Jonah or not.

I think it was.

But great comedic timing and all that. Later on, Keith got the actual ADR lines from the actor who plays the night, Michael Rapaport.

I remember the first time when I was going through the tracks and I did it and his voice came out in his squeaky high voice. Where were you? Huh?

It made me laugh. Like, it was one of the first things that I really laughed at on the show.
And you just didn't want to ruin that spontaneity of like the first time viewing it. It worked.

While Fallout has plenty of comedic moments, it also has a lot of really intense action. And one of the biggest sonic challenges was the gun sounds.

There's a couple of really cool guns in the game, like the junk jet, which is sort of a wind-up mortar system where you can throw anything into it and it'll fire back.

We use it at the end of episode one.

Aside from that, most of the game sounds of guns are either laser guns,

which we don't have in the show, at least yet. I don't know what's coming up, or they're just normal gun sounds.

One of the main characters in the show is a scarred-up bounty hunter known as the Ghoul. Now, the Ghoul's signature weapon is a heavy revolver that shoots explosive rounds.

And for the big shootout in episode two, it was crucial to get that sound right.

When we first spotted the show, there was no specific direction for the ghoul's gun. So we followed what the game was like and used, I think it was a sod-off shotgun sound.

Which worked perfectly fine.

But when it came time to really do the mix after they finished editing and locked the cut, Jonah had this idea that we could make it more interesting by having sort of a three-beat thing where it would fire a cartridge out, the cartridge would impact, and then it would explode.

And that works really well on the first shot, and it works really well on the second shot, and it works really, really well on the two slow-mo shots. But it really doesn't work anywhere else.

There's also shots where camera's right with the ghoul, and he's just firing rapid fire, bam, bam, bam, and there's no time to do these three beats.

So I worked on this sequence and tried to get it to work the best I could.

And when we got done with the day, it was fine, but nobody was really satisfied because it really wasn't doing what Jonah asked for.

But we knew we were coming back in when we got the final visual effects months later. So we'd have another crack at this.

Again, during the break, Joseph Fraoli came in to work on a few sounds, including the ghoul's gun. And he threw a whole bunch of different ideas at Jonah.

and finally came up with what is absolutely the ultimate homemade gun sound, which is the potato cannon,

which has this great low-end thump to it where you can really feel that cartridge going out. And he added a couple of details to it.

There's like a metal ring to it, and there's a little thunder as it shoots out, which is really cool.

But it made this iconic sound that is very far away from anything that exists in the game. Here's the final sound in the show.

But what was great about this was that it sort of opened us up because when you're told, stay close to this game sound, stay close to what they've already done and just veer when you need to, it's really great to know, okay, we can experiment, we can go to extremes, we just have to keep in mind the idea of the game.

So it's the post-apocalyptic, These people are putting together guns with spare parts.

And it led to other gun sounds later in the show, where we could really stray far away from the game sounds and yet make them still feel like they're part of the game.

From an audio standpoint, the Fallout games are some of my absolute favorites.

And with the Fallout show, the creative sound team managed to craft something that feels deeply rooted in those sounds, but also original, epic, and cinematic.

That's something that Fallout Live Action series did so well, was to, every time they use a little piece of the game, that's a little through line for players who are going to instantly feel and recognize that familiarity.

Almost like a scent memory. You know, you smell something that reminds you of childhood and for that split second you're there in that memory.
And sound does that really easily.

There's a reason that sound is wired so deeply into our memories and the feelings that go with those memories. It's the fundamental part of storytelling.

Our existence as a civilization, the fundamental is the stories we tell. And that didn't start with visual things.
It started with people talking. Started with painting pictures in sound.

And whether that's the emotion that you feel listening to music

or to the sound of a loved one talking, we get much more emotional content and sense of ourselves through sound than we ever do through visual media.

And that sounds almost like sacrilege in that we are, in essence, working in a visual media and adding sound to it.

But I think the sound is what is fundamental to it.

20,000 Hertz is produced out of my sound agency, DeFacto Sound, which is still going strong 15 years after that first meeting with Mark.

To learn more, follow DeFacto Sound on Instagram or visit de facto sound.com. This episode was written and produced by Ashley Hamer.
And Casey Emmerling. With help from Grace East.

It was sound designed and mixed by Brandon Pratt. And Joel Boyder.
Thanks to our guests, Mark Lampert, Sue Cahill, Daniel Coleman, Steve Bussino, and Keith Rogers.

And a huge thanks to NBCUniversal Studio Post for all of their help in making this episode happen.

Subscribe to my YouTube channel for video exclusives, including my on-location recordings with all kinds of fascinating sonic experts. You can also find my short videos on Instagram and TikTok.

All three accounts are under dallastaylor.mp3.

Finally, if you'd like to support the show directly so we can keep telling these incredible sound stories, then sign up for our premium feed at 20k.org/slash plus.

All of these links are in the show notes. I'm Dallas Taylor.
Thanks for listening.

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