A strange signal from space

Thumbtack presents Project Paralysis.

I was cornered.

Sweat gathered above my furrowed brow, and my mind was racing.

I wondered who would be left standing when the droplets fell, me or the clawed sink.

Drain cleaner and pipe snake clenched in my weary fist.

I stepped toward the sink and then-Wait, why am I stressing?

I have Thumbtack.

I can easily search for a top-rated plumber in the Bay Area, read reviews, and compare prices, all on the app.

Thumbtack knows homes.

Download the app today.

With a Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase.

And you get big purchasing power.

So your business can spend more and earn more.

Capital One, what's in your wallet?

Find out more at capital1.com/slash Spark Cash Plus.

Terms apply.

This is Unexplainable or Not, the game show where we finally get some answers.

This week, our guest is Julia Longoria.

She's been working on a new Unexplainable series all about AI that's going to be coming out next week.

And then, after that, she's going to be joining the Unexplainable team permanently.

Woo!

Welcome, Julia.

Thank you.

I'm so happy to be here with you all.

We are extremely excited as well.

How are you feeling about making your debut on solving some high-pressure, potentially unsolved mysteries?

I am shaking in my boots.

I'm terrified.

We'll have to welcome people when they're as nervous as possible.

So here's what we're doing.

Unexplainable or not is a game show where you have to guess what we know and what we don't.

You're going to hear three scientific mysteries, and you're going to hear them from me, from our supervising producer, Meredith Hodnop.

Hey there.

And from our senior reporter, producer, Bird Pinkerton.

Hello.

Two of these mysteries are still unexplainable, but one of them has recently been figured out.

After you hear all the mysteries, you're going to get a chance to guess which one you think scientists have actually explained.

And this week, in honor of you, we're doing a whole Julia-themed show.

Oh my goodness.

You've worked on some of our favorite shows out there from More Perfect to Rabbit Hole to Radio Lab.

It's honestly kind of crazy how many amazing shows you've worked on.

Guys, thanks.

And each of us is going to tell you a mystery related

to one of those shows.

Ish.

I am so intrigued by what that means.

Like, I just don't know.

I'm really excited to hear what the mysteries are.

Let's just say don't get your hopes up on the connections.

But first up, you're going to hear a mystery from Bird.

Hello, Julia.

Welcome to the show.

Hi, Bird.

So I love to overachieve.

So I have actually hit two of your past jobs.

Oh my god.

And that my mystery is set in the Atlantic.

Also the name of a publication you worked for.

Okay, now I'm getting how tangential we are.

I love it.

Okay.

And it's also about holes like your past show rabbit hole.

So these are extremely real connections.

But mostly this is just an excuse for me to do my favorite thing, which is to acknowledge that the ocean is full of mysteries that we are trying to understand.

And so today, I want to focus on an ocean riddle that was turned up by NOAA.

That's the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Two A's.

Yes, the NOAA.

So in 2022,

a NOAA ship was sent out to explore a bunch of spots in the Atlantic, especially along the mid-Atlantic Ridge.

And in one of their dives, they spotted these weird holes on the ocean floor.

So this is like 2,500 meters down.

Wait, how far down?

So this was 2,500 meters down, like 1.5 miles about.

Okay.

And like, they look almost rectangular.

They're a little over a centimeter wide, a few centimeters long, and they appear in a straight line, like a...

like a line of holes one after another, almost like a row of stitches.

Yeah, it really looks like a kid playing in the sand, like doing like really deep underwater.

Yeah, mile and a half under the Atlantic.

They don't look unintentional, essentially.

Yeah, they look very intentional, yeah.

And it's not the first time that holes like these have been spotted.

There were others seen back in 2004, also in the Atlantic.

And the scientists who wrote a paper describing those holes noted that they look kind of similar to holes that they'd found in fossilized rock, which suggests, right, that they're probably not man-made if they're also in the fossil record.

But then,

how are they made?

I reached out to NOAA and they sent me a statement that said essentially, it could be some kind of process happening.

So maybe there's some kind of tectonic activity in the area releasing gas bubbles that come up to the surface and make these holes in some way.

I feel like gas bubbles wouldn't make that though.

Yeah, it's like they're so rectangular looking that I was kind of like skeptical as well.

But they're also considering organisms that might do this.

Like maybe something's moving along the surface and making these or they've considered burrowing organisms because they're little mounds of sediments by the holes.

So to kind of check all this out, one of the things that they did was to collect some environmental DNA from the site.

So that's basically like DNA fragments that are just floating around.

And the idea there is to look at those DNA fragments and compare them, see if they match up with anything in our like vast catalog of basically like everything that we have seen before, essentially.

And in the statement that they sent, this lab director named Dr.

Alan Collins said, the little DNA fragments they gathered near these holes did not match anything in their data sets.

There's just so much down at the bottom of the ocean that we have not cataloged yet, right?

That we can't always use our catalogs to figure out what's going on.

And so that sort of leaves us with this mystery of what are these holes?

Where did they come from?

It feels a little absurd to think that you can encounter something like this 20 years ago and then encounter it again.

in 2022 and still not have clear answers.

But maybe it feels so absurd because we do have clear answers.

And this is not a testament to how very little we know about the ocean floor.

And it is instead a mystery we have solved.

So, Julia, what do you think?

Do you think we

might have solved this one?

Or do you think this is an unsolved mystery?

I feel like we would have solved it.

That is what my gut is saying.

They are just holes.

They are just holes.

How hard could it be?

Yeah.

All right.

Just remember the gut feeling when you start getting more mysteries later on yeah next up meredith has her own mystery for you all right julia hello meredith hello

my mystery today is all about concrete which not a direct tie to your resume uh but we'll we'll get there it'll all come around i'm on the edge of my seat i know fascinating stuff so Concrete is the most used building material in the world.

We're pumping out billions and billions of tons of it every year for our buildings, our roads, our dams.

Like concrete is basically the bedrock of modern life.

But there's a concrete mystery that stretches back thousands of years to the Roman Empire.

Just like us, you know, Romans, they used their concrete to build their roads, their aqueducts, their cities, even their marketplaces.

You got some experience with marketplace, right, Julia?

Nice.

And there are temples like the Pantheon built 2,000 years ago, this huge, unreinforced concrete dome that you can still see today.

And that is exactly the point.

That concrete is still there in the middle of Rome.

And it's not just in beautifully preserved historical buildings.

You can see this ancient concrete in sea walls, like submerged in saltwater, getting pounded by waves, the harshest conditions.

And these walls are still standing, thousands of years later.

And we don't know why.

Some scientists think it has to do with the chemistry of the Romans, like raw materials.

There's this very special volcanic ash that came from like one very specific seaside town that Romans shipped across the empire to make their concrete.

Other researchers think that the durability of this Roman concrete came down to how they mixed all of their like concrete ingredients together.

Either way, it's extremely hard to figure out why this concrete lasts so long.

Because all we have are like the surviving remains, like chemically altered by millennia of wear and tear and, you know, being exposed to the elements.

It's also impossible to tell what was like purposeful engineering and what was just kind of like a lucky accident in material science.

But one thing that we do know is that our modern concrete doesn't stand up nearly as well.

That was going to be my question.

Like, what's the shelf life on concrete?

Well, so I asked a professor of engineering at MIT, Admir Maschich,

and he told me that modern concrete has a shelf life of 50 to 100 years, maybe 150 years, like if you're stretching it.

Wait, we outlive concrete?

Yeah.

Or some concrete?

Some concrete.

Depending how long we live, right?

But this is like a real

issue with, like, if you look at the Frank Lloyd Wright building that was supposed to be like a waterfall building or something, and they want to preserve it, but it's like falling apart because so much of it is concrete.

Like, oh, interesting.

Very tragic.

Totally.

And it's not just architectural marvels we're talking about here.

Our modern concrete infrastructure is continually crumbling and needs to be replaced and repaired, even as we're going on to build just like more and more and more out of our concrete.

And this has a huge environmental toll.

The production of concrete is responsible for like billions of tons of carbon released into the air, accounting for as much as like eight or nine percent of just all greenhouse gas emissions just from concrete.

Wait, why is it so

like it's just rock?

Why is it so or it's it's just little,

it's concrete rock.

But why does it emit so much CO2?

So, the process of taking limestone and making it become like this liquid rock of cement that then gets mixed into concrete, you're basically like heating it up so much that you're stripping out carbon dioxide.

It's like pound for pound.

Got it.

Every pound of cement made releases just about a pound of CO2 into the air.

It's so inefficient.

Yeah.

So figuring out the secret of Roman concrete, what makes it so durable, what makes it last so long, could be the key of making our own long-lasting concrete, you know, that doesn't need to keep being replaced and dramatically cut the carbon cost of all of our infrastructure.

You know, you're really blowing my mind because I'm like, how, I didn't quite realize we were building our societies on like such shaky foundations.

Yeah.

Shaky and like super environmentally harmful.

Yeah.

Like, why are we doing that?

Yeah.

Isn't there better stuff to use?

I guess, I don't know.

Yeah, maybe they figured it out.

So what do you think?

Do you think we

know

why Roman concrete was so durable?

Or do you think that's still an unsolved mystery?

I'm leaning toward it's an unsolved mystery, but

I guess I just found out that we are building on shaky foundations, so maybe we aren't, but I'm like very

highly impressionable.

Well, just

hold off till the third mystery.

Yep.

And this one is inspired by your time at Radio Lab.

Nice.

Specifically, the radio part.

I want to tell you about something called the WOW signal.

So in Ohio in the 70s, there was this telescope called Big Ear.

It wasn't a normal telescope with lenses and mirrors.

It was a radio telescope, which means it was essentially listening for radio waves, and it would kind of output the data that it got on these spreadsheets.

And an astronomer was going over this data and he noticed this really weird signal.

There's no recording of it, but there is a printout of the data, which I can show you here.

Wow.

Wow.

Someone just wrote, wow, exclamation voice.

I assume that's not the signal, signal, but no, no, that's that's where the name comes from.

The guy basically circled the signal, which was just this huge spike in energy.

And he wrote, wow, so wow, signal.

But the next time that patch of sky where the signal came from was analyzed, it was gone.

And the signal was never recorded again.

Is there a chance that like a bird fell on something and no one noticed?

Well,

the thing is, it wasn't just that this signal never happened again.

The signal was kind of inherently strange because it was just in one narrow frequency.

So, essentially, like one note on the keyboard, which means that it probably wasn't a natural signal from space because if it was any kind of supernova or a pulsar or just something that happens all the time in space, that would have sent all kinds of frequencies.

And the frequency it was sent at happens to be the same frequency that hydrogen emits radio waves at, which got people ultra excited because this is the frequency that a lot of astronomers and scientists think that aliens would probably choose to communicate with us because they would probably try to communicate on the most universal frequency, you know, most common element in the universe, hydrogen.

Wow.

And there is actually an international agreement that prohibits broadcasting on this frequency because it might interfere with signals coming from space.

All of which is why the guy who found this signal a couple years ago, he said, quote, I'm convinced that the WOW signal certainly has the potential of being the first signal from extraterrestrial intelligence.

Now, he might be biased.

Yeah, we all want to be that guy.

We all want to be the guy who discovers aliens, right?

So I called up a different astronomer just to get her sense of things.

She's a radio astronomer.

So she also kind of specifically looks for radio waves coming from space.

She works at the University of Oregon.

Her name is Yvette Sendis.

And she's not exactly convinced by the aliens theory.

I don't know if that's a shocker, but.

I mean, I'm of the opinion that like, if you think we're alone out here, you're delusional.

I agree.

But

Yvette doesn't think this is the evidence that we're not alone.

Fair.

And she told me there's this theory that maybe a blast of radiation could have hit a hydrogen cloud in deep space, which would explain why this signal was just on the one hydrogen frequency.

But no one's ever observed a radiation blast big enough to make the wow signal.

So Yvette isn't into that either.

She basically told me that it's easy to get excited about weird signals in radio astronomy, but given how many radio signals we're just always emitting all the time, if you detect something weird, odds are it's from us, like maybe a glitch on our end or something.

And that's basically what she thinks might explain this.

She thinks it might have been a satellite or interference or something.

But even that explanation isn't perfect because the WOW signal wasn't moving relative to the stars in the background like a satellite would.

It seemed like it came from somewhere really far away, which means that after all of this, we're left with a whole series of imperfect explanations, unless it was the aliens.

And

aliens, if you're listening, maybe reach back out and let us know that you're listening a little more clearly than just who diss new phone.

Yeah, maybe be a little more explicit than hydrogen.

I don't know.

So that's where we are.

What do you think?

Do you think we figured out the wow signal?

I don't know.

I'm on the fence about this one.

Sounds like you're on the fence about a lot of them.

Yeah.

Perfect.

I knew I was going to be bad at this game.

So you've got the mystery of birds' weird deep ocean holes.

You've got Meredith's Roman concrete being way more durable than we would otherwise expect.

And we've got what potentially caused the WOW signal.

They're all unexplainable, or at least they all were unexplainable at one point.

One of these potential mysteries has recently been figured out.

And you'll have a chance to guess

after the break.

Boo-boo-boo.

As a founder, you're moving fast towards product market fit, your next round, or your first big enterprise deal.

But with AI accelerating how quickly startups build and ship, security expectations are also coming in faster, and those expectations are higher than ever.

Getting security and compliance right can unlock growth or stall it if you wait too long.

Vanta is a trust management platform that helps businesses automate security and compliance across more than 35 frameworks like SOC2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, and more.

With deep integrations and automated workflows built for fast-moving teams, Vanta gets you audit ready fast and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring as your models, infrastructure, and customers evolve.

That's why fast-growing startups like Langchain, Ryder, and Cursor have all trusted Vanta to build a scalable compliance foundation from the start.

Go to Vanta.com/slash Vox to save $1,000 today through the Vanta for Startups program and join over 10,000 ambitious companies already scaling with Vanta.

That's vanta.com/slash vox to save $1,000 for a limited time.

Support for this show comes from Robinhood.

Wouldn't it be great to manage your portfolio on one platform?

With Robinhood, not only can you trade individual stocks and ETFs, you can also seamlessly buy and sell crypto at low costs.

Trade all in one place.

Get started now on Robinhood.

Trading crypto involves significant risk.

Crypto trading is offered through an account with Robinhood Crypto LLC.

Robinhood Crypto is licensed to engage in virtual currency business activity by the New York State Department of Financial Services.

Crypto held through Robinhood Crypto is not FDIC insured or SIPIC protected.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

Securities trading is offered through an account with Robinhood Financial LLC, member SIPIC, a registered broker dealer.

This message is brought to you by AppleCard.

Each Apple product, like the iPhone, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers.

The titanium Apple Cart is no different.

It's laser-etched, has no numbers, and it earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple.

Apply for Apple Card on your iPhone in minutes.

Subject to credit approval, AppleCard is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

Terms and more at AppleCard.com.

It's nice to meet you.

I'm Julia Cooley.

It's unexplainable or not.

Julia, welcome back.

Happy to be here.

We've got three mysteries to choose from, and only one of them has been explained.

Mystery one,

what are all these weird holes at the bottom of the ocean?

Mystery two,

why was Roman concrete so strong?

And mystery three, what's behind the wow signal?

So just kind of tell me what you're thinking.

Okay.

Maybe all of your anxieties.

I'm very anxious right now.

Just the baseline assumption I have is that the ocean is such a mystery to us.

So I have a feeling that maybe we don't have an explanation for that one.

And then as far as the concrete, it does feel like one that we would

most feasibly have an answer to.

But it's the kind of thing we would like just postpone figuring out because like big concrete, you know?

Big concrete doesn't want better concrete?

because then we wouldn't have to fix the concrete all the time like that's you know big money it's all an elaborate reason

it goes all the way up to top

uh

and yeah the last one i i am puzzled by but i feel like maybe it has a dumb answer like bird really like i don't know if you were trying to sway me or to

bamboozle me with that.

Maybe a bird went on.

I am a bamboozler, famously.

That's true.

I had that feeling.

I'm going to guess and probably be wrong that the last one, the wow, is the one that we know.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow signal final answer?

Wow signal final answer.

Okay, locking it in.

Here's your answer.

Instead of degrading, it gets better.

That's what is happening with Roman concrete.

They cracked open big concrete.

They found the ample.

Big concrete's gotta worry.

Now who's shaking in their boots?

Julia, your face two seconds into that quote.

It just fell.

I know.

You were just like, no!

God damn it.

So,

Julia, why Roman concrete is so durable has been figured out.

And Meredith is going to tell you how this mystery was solved shockingly recently.

Yeah, so it turns out that I, Meredith Hodnott, am the bamboozler.

Bamboozled.

It's always the ones you don't expect.

I know, underneath this smiley facade, it's just some bamboozled down to the core.

So we just heard from the MIT engineering professor I talked to, Admir Masic, and he just loves concrete.

The beauty of concrete is the fact that you have this incredible freedom of forms.

You pour concrete and then it solidifies into a rock.

He found out a couple years ago why Roman concrete lasts thousands of years.

And he says it all has to do with the mix.

So, little concrete 101.

Concrete is a bunch of sand and gravel and rocks all held together by a glue made from processed limestone and clay called cement.

Heard of it.

And throughout his career, Admir has looked at samples of Roman concrete from across the Mediterranean, some samples even like preserved at Pompeii.

And everywhere he looked, there were these little millimeter scale nuggets of mostly calcium.

Yeah, that's a great.

I never used the little nugget term, but I think it describes it incredibly well.

It's gold for us, in a sense that these little nuggets are super calcium rich.

It's like a like a dairy queen blizzard that's not fully blizzed.

It's like got the paint.

exactly yeah and admir says it was generally thought that these nuggets happened because the romans were just not very good at mixing their concrete the nuggets were considered bad material processing but were

all the romans bad at mixing all of their concrete like these nuggets are everywhere you put so much effort in this material design and then you don't mix it properly every single time it's like guys and that gave admir and his team an idea i started to challenge this that romans consistently badly mix their concrete so cement the glue of concrete needs water to solidify it's an important part of the chemistry that turns the calcium of limestone and other chemicals like silicates into such a powerful binder but admir says that he's been able to prove that the way the Romans mixed their cement meant that not all of the calcium combined with the water.

These chemical reactions of mixing the concrete would get so hot that some of the water evaporated, leaving these calcium nuggets behind.

Our modern concrete is much more uniform.

It's a milkshake.

Exactly.

In the modern, you have all homogeneously distributed calcium, very boring, like super mixed in, whereas ancient Roman concrete is like super heterogeneous.

So let's use our concretes to make some walls.

Over time, tiny cracks start to form in the concrete and water starts to leak in.

In modern concrete, that's it.

It's the beginning of the end.

The water gets into the concrete and these cracks it can freeze and thaw, making those cracks spread even further.

The water could get all the way down to the like metal rebar that is like the structural support of the concrete structures, and then it starts eroding and rusting and beginning the whole crumbling process.

But in ancient Roman concrete, that water leaks in, it hits one of these tiny calcium nuggets, that nugget dissolves, then recrystallizes, and seals up the crack.

So, what makes Roman concrete magical

is

the chemistry behind healing process that's not taking place in modern concrete.

Fascinating.

Roman concrete is literally healing itself.

And Admir and his team aren't suggesting we make concrete the way Romans used to.

There have been like a few engineering advances in the last couple of thousand years that are worth hanging on to.

But this discovery is inspiring ideas for additives to help modern concrete heal itself.

Wait, so why wouldn't we just make concrete the way the Romans used to?

Like if their concrete lasted for 2,000 years and our concrete lasts for like 100 years, why wouldn't we just

make all the stuff with Roman concrete?

Yeah.

Right.

So the Romans, they knew a lot of things, but they did not know how to make a concrete wall that was

not like gigantically thick.

In ancient Roman structures, there is no reinforcement, no steel.

And so they built the structures with huge walls, thick walls, and everything was very, very bulky.

And then while they could make these beautiful domes, it's actually really hard to make flat concrete surfaces without that structural support.

So the top of the pantheon is just like this open skylight.

And Admir was saying, like, yeah, that's probably because it kept falling down because they couldn't figure out how to structurally support it.

Maybe they even tried to make it and were not successful and then just left it open.

I don't know.

I should actually look into that.

So if we want to keep our like thin-walled, elegant concrete skyscrapers with all those like real nice flat floors, we got to figure out how to take lessons from the Romans, but

not do as they do.

So, Julia, even though you didn't get the answer right here, you were stumped by big concrete, we do have a consolation prize for you, which is a song I wrote.

Incredible.

The Roman Coliseum somehow hasn't collapsed,

even though they built it thousands of years in the past.

Wow.

The Roman Beons got a dome and it's not reinforced.

If we had tried that, it would fall right down to the floor.

They're still aqueducts, they're still seawalls, there's still marketplaces and dots.

But finally, scientists figured out why it's because the Romans built them all with concrete.

And tiny little muds mixed hard.

They built them with concrete.

These nuggets that were mostly made of calcium.

It wasn't like they sucked at mix something with concrete.

It's more like they just crushed and built something with concrete.

All roads lead to Rome and some of them will erode.

Don't you know what they say about the ones that don't?

They were probably built with clumpy Roman concrete.

These tiny little mugs mixed

them with concrete.

These nuggets that were mostly made of calcium

with concrete.

It wasn't like they suck and mix with them with concrete.

It's more like they just crush and build

concrete.

And the nuggets.

And the nuggets.

And the nuggets.

The nuggets.

Nugget really is an excellent word.

What a dream.

One last thing before we go.

Julia, the Unexplainable Series you've been working on, Good Robot, comes out next week.

Yeah, it does.

So I wonder if you could give us a little preview?

I actually have a trailer for you.

Okay.

Let's listen.

Suppose in the future, there is an artificial intelligence.

I've been asking some very smart people a question that's been on a lot of our minds.

Should we be worried about artificial intelligence?

But the answers I got from the greatest minds in AI surprised me.

One guy told a parable of an AI that could cause an apocalypse.

Let's give this super intelligent AI a simple goal.

Produce paperclips.

Be a paperclip?

Another woman cast AI as an octopus.

We posit this octopus to be mischievous as well.

And yet another story sounded like it was out of the Bible.

She seems likely to drown.

What should you do?

Imagining AI as a savior.

Like a god?

Yeah, like a god.

And all of these fantastical tales from the greatest minds in AI made me wonder, maybe even these people don't know what to think.

I'm Julia Longoria, Good Robot, a series about AI coming March 12th on Unexplainable, wherever you get podcasts.

Oh, man, I'm so excited for this, Julia.

And we're so glad to have you on the team.

Oh, thanks.

That's it for Unexplainable or Not.

Thank you you to our presenters, Bird Pinkerton.

That's me, the Bamboozler, and Meredith Hodnott.

That's my name.

Both bamboozlers.

You said it.

And thank you to our audience for joining us.

If you have a mystery or a solved mystery you want us to tell on an upcoming game show, let us know.

We read every single email.

That's it for Unexplainable or Not.

Goodbye.

This episode was reported by Bird Pinkerton, Meredith Hodnott, and me, Noah I'm Hasenfeld.

Production and music from me, editing from Meredith, who also runs the show.

Production support from Thomas Liu, mixing and sound design from Christian Ayala, and fact-checking from Melissa Hirsch and Anouk Dusau.

Thanks so much to Julia Longoria for playing our game this week.

Her unexplainable series Good Robot launches next week.

And after that, you'll be hearing a lot more from her going forward.

So get excited.

Thanks to Lauren Katz for her help with this episode and honestly all the game shows we've done so far.

Thanks to Brian Resnick for co-creating the show.

And special thanks to both Anouk and Rob Byers who are moving on to new projects.

Anook has been an incredibly thoughtful researcher and fact checker for us.

And Rob has taught us all more about sound and engineering and just listening than I ever knew was possible.

If you have thoughts about the show, send us an email.

We're at unexplainable at vox.com, and you can leave us a review or a rating wherever you listen.

It really helps us find new listeners.

You can also support this show and all of Vox's journalism by joining our membership program today.

You can go to Vox.com/slash members to sign up.

Unexplainable is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and we'll be back with the first episode of our series, Good Robot, next week.

Concrete and tiny little parts

And the nuggets.

And the nuggets.

And the nugget, nugget, nuggets.

This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes, and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pureleaf.

Support for this show comes from Capital One.

With the VentureX business card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase.

Plus, the VentureX Business Card has no preset spending limit, so your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs.

Capital One.

What's in your wallet?