04 Mr Big | You're it

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It's hard to get across just how much Glenn Weaven and his brother Danny loved fishing.

I used to go fishing with Glenn every

probably two or three times a week.

If they weren't working, eating, or sleeping, they were probably out fishing.

Me and Glenn, we had a boat between us.

But one Friday, about nine months after Mary was killed, one of those fishing trips didn't go to plan.

We're going to go down Stony Point, launch the boat and chase the snapper.

The boat lived at Danny's place, so he knocked off early to get things ready.

So I got home, hooked up the boat.

Obviously Glenn's not at work because he's broken his wrist and stuff.

Glenn had been flat out running errands for his new criminal mates.

In between, he was still finding time for his fishing trips.

But on this Friday, he was running late.

Oh, it's a bit of noise I'm gonna go, oh, well, we're

supposed to be going out.

Danny knew Glenn's work with the gang had been keeping him busy, but it still would have been weird for him to skip out on a fishing trip.

So Danny gave him a call.

And I rang him up and he never answered.

And then he called again.

I think I rang him a few times, it just never answered.

After a while, Danny got sick of waiting.

I waited, I waited, and I just decided to go.

The reason Glenn Weaven wasn't answering his phone was because he couldn't.

In that moment, Glenn was meeting with Mr.

Bigg, the head of the criminal organisation he'd been working for.

And what the two of them said to each other in that meeting, and the secret recording of their words, is what this whole story revolves around.

By the end of that meeting, Glenn's life would be changed forever.

I'm Alicia Bridges, and this is Mr.

Big, the latest season of Unravel.

Earlier that day, Glenn was nervous, but it had nothing to do with the planned fishing trip.

Glenn was quietly freaking out because he was due to meet with his new criminal gang's Mr.

Big.

They'd met briefly twice before, but this meeting was different.

If everything went well, he would be in.

A made man of sorts, with opportunities for bigger jobs with bigger payouts.

But the gang wanted to do a background check first, and Glenn knew there was something in his recent past that could derail everything.

He'd been pegged as a prime suspect in the murder of Mary Cook, and what's worse, it seemed like the case hadn't gone away.

Suddenly, it seemed to be back in the news.

There were reports the previous day that police had important new information for their investigation.

And earlier that week, a detective had paid a visit to Glenn's brother.

Glenn's background as a murder suspect might not look so appealing to a gang about to do a very risky job.

Everything would be decided in this meeting.

At around 11.30am, Glenn's closest mate from the gang comes to pick him up.

For legal reasons, we're calling him Rob.

Glenn sees him arrive, leaves the house, and hops in in the car.

Rob tells Glenn he surprised the bosses in town today.

He didn't know this meeting was going to be called.

He gives Glenn some advice.

When it comes to meeting the big man, just be straight up with him.

He asks Glenn, you're not too nervous?

Glenn replies that he's always nervous.

And Rob tells him to just remember the most important thing to the gang.

Trust, honesty, loyalty.

Soon they arrive at their destination, the Crown Towers Casino Hotel, this enormous casino towering over the banks of Melbourne's Yarra River, right near the centre of the city.

They make their way through the maze of the casino to a bar.

There's two other guys there.

They all order a beer.

and then they wait for the call from Mr.

Bigg to say he's ready to see Glenn.

They talk blokey nonsense about the weather and picking up Sheila's and the merits of various beards, Asahi vs.

Kalchin vs.

Crownies.

Finally, one of the gang arrives at the bar to take Glenn upstairs where Mr.

Bigg is waiting.

The guy guiding him up through the plush hallways is actually that gang member who's also a corrupt cop.

Bruce.

He takes Glenn to a room on the 15th floor, stops at the door, knocks, and it opens.

Getting out, how are you?

I feel good to see you.

Hey, Glenn, how are you?

Glenn is all of a sudden face to face with Mr.

Bigg.

Listen, I just want to have a quick word to Glenn.

All right.

Glenn is padded down by one of Mr.

Bigg's men.

Then he takes a seat, and the boss sends all the others downstairs.

From now on, there's only two voices in the room, Glenn and Mr.

Bigg.

This is the tape at the heart of this story.

That recording of two men and their cold-blooded exchange about the murder of Mary Cook.

This is how their conversation begins.

Remember, we've got some work to do.

Here's things.

The room is swanky, with these floor-to-ceiling windows and a spectacular 180-degree view over Melbourne to Port Phillip Bay.

Mr.

Biggs sits across a table from Glenn and starts a bit of aimless chit-chat.

To begin with, Mr.

Bigger's full of praise for Glenn.

I'm really happy with what you've been doing, you know.

You're really showing you've got some style about you.

No fuss, you know.

You're always reliable.

Every time we've wanted you on board, you know, you've been there for us.

He tells Glenn he's been impressed about the work he's done on different jobs.

the cigarettes, the guns to the bikies, and the huge cash drops.

And he's pleased to see that Glenn's been okay handling such a large amount of money and that none's gone missing.

It's been no problem with money, you know, like you know, sometimes people get a bit overalled with the amount of money that we deal with, you know.

To me, it's not mine, so I don't look at it.

Mr.

Biggs starts laying out the reason for the meeting today.

He needs to get things in order for the gang's big plan.

importing 300 kilos of hash from Papua New Guinea.

It's one job, huge risk, and potentially huge reward.

You know, I mean,

even you, you know, if you're going to be a part of this, you'll be looking at 100k easy, you know, out of one job, okay?

Glenn's keen to show he wants in on the job, that he's committed and that he can be trusted.

I want a piece of the pie, okay.

And

I can assure you that I wouldn't let you down in any way.

I'm not that type of person.

That's the thing I want to talk to you about, you know.

Mr Bigg makes it clear.

All this talk about trust is actually about consequences and about what will happen to both of them if that trust is broken.

I've got to have trust in all the people that are working for me, you know, because at the end of the day, it's my ass in the sling, you know what I mean?

Because in this game, right, it's not like applying for a job or it's not like working in an office Monday to Friday.

I mean, in this game, if we come unstuck, then we might end up in a bin, you know?

You know what I mean?

Glenn tries to reassure Mr Bigg that he can be trusted and that he won't make any mistakes.

But Mr Biggs says there's a problem.

It's Glenn's background check.

Mr Biggs says he's found out Glenn's been caught up in a murder investigation and his police contacts have told him that Glenn's still the main suspect.

With such a high stakes job around the corner, this could put the whole thing at risk.

I can't have any police sniffing around any of the people that are working for me, right?

Because if if that's going to happen, they're going to end up sniffing around me at some stage, aren't they?

So you've got a bit of a problem with the coppers on your ass at the moment, all right?

Mr.

Bigg tells Glenn, just because the police investigation's gone a bit quiet, it doesn't mean they've gone away.

Let me tell you, Glenn, okay?

I'll teach you something about the coppers and the way they work, all right?

They don't...

It might appear to you that everything's going alright, that no worries I got away with that, okay?

But they never give up you are the bloke that they're going to lock up let me tell you that right now okay

you're ready uh you know i've i've been supplied with some material about what they've got and and it's reasonably substantial let me tell you that okay

mr big tells glenn he's got a choice to make On the one hand, he can walk away now, no problem.

Because

you can tell me to jam it and get up and walk out the door.

Yeah, there's no skin off my eyes.

I'm just going to have to go and find somebody else and you're going to miss out on the job come up.

But if he wants to stay on the job, make the big bucks and stay out of prison, then he needs to be completely honest.

He tells Glenn, if he has anything to do with the murder, now's the time to talk about it.

If there are any loose ends...

weapons, bloodstained clothes, witnesses who might spill the beans, he should say so now.

Because if Glenn wants to stay with the gang, then he needs to help make this murder investigation disappear.

Mr.

Bigg makes pretty clear to Glenn he's covered things up before and that with his connections he can do that for Glenn.

But first he needs to know the whole story.

So

the problem of who we want is not a problem because it's you, okay?

The problem is making sure that we go through everything and make sure that there's no no loose ends.

And what loose ends there are, and let me tell you, there'll always be a loose end.

We've got to get rid of all those loose ends, okay?

But I need to know what they are, okay?

So,

what I need to know is: do you want to be with us?

And if you do, then let's fix this problem for good.

Because I'm willing to go out on a limb and fix this problem, okay,

so that you can be a part of it.

I need it to go away and I don't just need it under the carpet, I need it to be fixed so that it never comes back.

Okay?

It's hard to know exactly what's going through Glenn's mind at this point.

In the weeks before this meeting, it seems like he was looking for a way to get out of the gang.

But now, with this lucrative drug deal on the line, he's facing the promise of more money than he's ever seen before.

And he seems keen.

It's just that to get it, he's being asked to go back to the night of the fire at Mary's house and tell the whole story.

At this point, he falters.

His responses get kind of confusing and they go on for a fair while.

Some of what he says here I'll come back to later.

Mr.

Bigg pushes him.

Let's just get the truth.

Okay?

Glenn tries to explain why he's having trouble.

I'm scared of you in a lot of ways because of your profile.

Don't take me the wrong way.

Mr.

Bigg tells Glenn it's okay.

He can be trusted.

But if he wants in, it's now or never.

After a while, Glenn seems to make a decision.

Only straightforward.

Yep, no bullshit.

Good.

I'm the bloke.

Yep, we can

sort it all out.

And just like that, in this half-hearted way, Glenn says, yep, I'm the bloke.

He seems to admit he's the one who killed Mary Cook.

Let's start right from the start, okay?

And then, okay, so let's go.

What have I got to show you?

And so, after all this back and forth, Glenn tells Mr.

Bigg the story of what happened to Mary Cook the night of the fire.

So, I'll just go from the start.

Well, how did you get there?

What?

You walked?

What?

Okay.

The car didn't go.

Right.

Did you mean to walk or the car didn't go?

I meant to walk.

Yeah.

Okay.

Why?

People in the middle car.

Okay.

So you walk there?

Yep.

Mr.

Big Peppers Glenn with questions, with Glenn kind of mumbling his answers.

It can be hard to hear at times.

Only Capitol Collins, I think you said, right?

Yeah.

What did you go there for?

I actually went there, maybe just to have a smoke with her.

Yep.

Because I don't do that very often.

When I do,

she's generally the one I deal with.

But again,

things went wrong.

And...

So what went wrong?

What do you mean things went wrong?

When I first listened to this, and I got to this part of the tape, I was expecting some emotion from Glenn, and maybe some kind of insight into what was going on in his head.

Like maybe he'd had some kind of argument with Mary.

Not that an explanation like that would make it any better or make the outcome any different.

but it felt like maybe it would just help to understand what happened here.

But Glenn doesn't say anything like that.

Just drugs.

He just offers this really brief and vague story about some drugs that weren't paid for.

And then they get straight into the dry mechanics of how she was killed.

Yeah,

she's hated the neck and

so.

When you say the neck, what, you stab her in the neck?

Yep.

Yep.

With a knife?

Yep.

Okay.

Now what sort of knife are we talking?

Snake and a surrounded edge.

My head.

I've heard this many times now, and it's still so heartbreaking and confronting to listen to.

But these details could be important.

So how many times did you stab her?

Um, once that it broke, so I don't know if it was the second punch or not.

He tells Mr.

Bigg, the knife snapped.

It broke the on the

and in the neck, you said?

Yeah.

So whereabouts in her side, the front.

That side, one of its side.

Were you aiming for that or just that's what happened?

Just what happened.

Okay.

And okay, so broke but she's still alive.

Yeah and nose caked and

okay now what she did she fall on the bed or on the floor or

on that stage.

Glenn says he rolled Mary over to retrieve the broken part of the knife and then picked up a screwdriver.

At what stage have you

have you got a screwdriver?

You said you

found that.

Because the knife's broken you've found it

to finish it.

Couldn't handle it yep.

So you've seen the screwdriver?

Yeah, green handle, had that wrong.

It's a pretty long one.

Yeah.

It was actually the longer shaft one.

So you've got that from where, sorry?

The lounge room table.

You've stabbed her again with a screwdriver?

Yeah, yeah.

Whereabouts?

Dummy.

So how many times do you think?

I don't recall it, to be honest with you.

Yeah, okay.

I really don't.

I could have went...

Oh, I could have.

I could have just cried and done nothing, I don't know.

But you're saying you stabbed it with a screwdriver.

Yeah, no, I did.

Yeah, it has come to me a little bit.

It should never have happened.

Well,

why did it happen?

Stupidity.

Did you ever blue that?

No.

Wasn't ever anything, anything major at all.

Yeah.

It was just a habit of drugs.

So So that's what it was all about.

And it was just a drug deal gone wrong.

She just went crazy this night and I really

according to Glenn, that was the reason Mary Cook lost her life.

This woman he's known for years, the head of this family he'd become so close to.

All over a drug deal gone wrong, in his words.

A stupid mistake, he says.

It really gets me to think that her murder could have been so senseless.

That she was killed in her own home, leaving three children without a mum.

And now her murder is being talked about like it's just a problem that needs to be cleaned up.

And now that's exactly what they start talking about.

What steps did Glenn take to cover up the murder?

And what loose ends has he left behind?

Mr.

Biggs starts by asking about the fire.

So what's made you decide to light the place up

just to cover up a bit.

Alright.

So why did you take the knife and the screwdriver with you?

To get rid of.

You didn't think it'd get rid of in the fire?

No, I didn't think it was actually going to do that much without an accelerator.

Okay.

Oh, you didn't use anything, is that right?

So you've started the fire?

Right.

Where have you gone then?

Straight up.

Next, Mr.

Bigg pushes Glenn for details about what he did with his clothes.

Now the clothes you were wearing on the night, I'm gone.

Glenn says he was wearing tracksuit pants, an orange shirt, a jacket over the top, and tennis shoes.

He says he chucked them all in the wood heater at home and burned them the first chance he got.

Except for the orange shirt, which he says he kept, but he's washed it a lot since the murder.

Okay, then what about the screwdriver and the knife and the broken bit?

Next, Mr.

Bigg wants to know about the weapons.

If this murder is going to be properly covered up, they need to be found and destroyed.

Glenn says they might not be easy to find.

He threw the screwdriver into an area near a bridge, and he buried the knife not far from his parents' place.

Goldflakes Road?

Uh it's like a little drain.

I thought the whole system's connected on like a drain.

I saw a little right in the wetlands area.

Is it far from where the screwdriver is?

No.

No, we don't call it.

Okay.

Golf looks right.

And this is Narry Warren, isn't he?

Yeah, yeah.

Does anybody else know about what you've done?

No.

There's a pause here as Mr.

Bigg seems to consider Glenn's story and the details he's provided.

If what Glenn said checks out and the weapons can be found, then he's got what he needs to make this whole thing go away.

Mr.

Bigg wastes no time making plans.

He grabs his phone and calls the guys downstairs to come back up to the room.

Could you just take our bloke down?

We're going to need to go out and do a few things, mate.

Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Okay.

And with that, they both seem to relax a bit, and the tension in the room seems to drop.

Like Glenn's got something off his chest, and Mr.

Biggs got what he needs.

As they wait for the blokes to come upstairs, Glenn tells Mr.

Bigg just how nervous he'd been about the meeting.

I was a bit scared before, and I'm going, I've planned nothing to scare them.

Mr.

Bigg reassures Glenn.

As long as what he said checks out, then he's in.

He'll soon be part of the crew.

It's good.

It's good.

Well, looks like we're going to have a long and happy bloody.

I really hope so.

No reason why we shouldn't.

No.

They chat for a while.

Then three of Mr.

Bigg's henchmen arrive at the door.

They're home and they'd be 100 metres...

Yep.

Mr.

Bigg tells him to take Glenn for a drive and they'll catch up later.

Yeah.

Alright,

I might just need to go for a bit of a drive.

If you just want to take your new crewmate down,

walk on board, Donnie.

I'm going to need you to go for a bit of a spin, so just watch the piss until we sort that out.

Off you go.

See you, Glenn.

Thanks.

Bye.

Glenn and the crew leave the room together.

The door closes behind them and the room falls quiet again.

But the recording doesn't stop here.

Mr.

Big, Glenn's boss, this criminal kingpin, waits.

There's a brief silence and then he talks into the mic.

All right, the time's 3.26 p.m.,

still Friday, Friday,

September 2009.

He's the one who's been recording this conversation.

Glenn Wayman has just left the room 1510 of Crane Town.

Mr.

Bigg is a cop.

Not a corrupt cop, a real cop.

An undercover cop.

He admits that he killed Mary Cook, that he did so on his own.

And he's just got Glenn to admit to murder.

And he says he stabbed her in the neck area to the side of the throat.

The knife broke.

He then let the mattress of the bed,

used a cigarette lighter, and then he left it on the bed to burn the fire.

Time is now 3:30, 1pm.

Time out to record.

Glenn has been completely and utterly tricked.

Set up by this police officer playing the role of a crime boss, like an actor in a Hollywood movie.

And this elaborate deception has been going on for months.

It wasn't just Mr.

Big, that guy who recruited Glenn at the Berwick Springs Hotel, who became his mate, Rob, the woman he blackmailed who was having an affair, the people Glenn handed money to, the other gang members, even Bruce, the corrupt cop, they were all undercover police, using a controversial covert technique.

This police technique is ingenious, inventive, and shrouded in secrecy.

It's called the Mr.

Big method.

And when police use it on Glenn in that Crown Towers hotel room, it works.

He confesses.

Just a few hours later, and nine months after Mary Cook's death, Victoria police arrest Glenn Weaven and charge him with murder.

But it gets even crazier.

Even though Glenn confesses to her murder on that tape, when police bring him into the station, he claims that just like them, he made the whole thing up.

I told a liar to get some money.

That's next time on Mr.

Big.

This season of Unravel is hosted and reported by me, Alicia Bridges.

We've been making this story on Gadiguland and Wajak Noongar Land.

This story was developed in collaboration with the ABC's investigations team.

Our supervising producers are Alex Mann and Yasmin Parry.

Producer and researcher is Ayla Darling.

Theme by Martin Peralta and Ashley Cadell.

Additional music by Ashley Cadell.

Sound design and additional music by Hamish Kamaleri.

Monique Bowley is our manager of podcasts and our executive producer is Tim Roxburgh.

Hello, it's Dr.

Norman Swan here.

And your non-doctor mate, Tegan Taylor.

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