Snowball 04 | Charmed

This is an ABC podcast.

In this episode, we've used voice actors for Leslie and her parents, as well as her mysterious lawyer, Eric T.

Weiss, and his staff.

I'm sorry that now you'll never really know what was real or not.

Leslie wrote that in her divorce letter to my brother Greg.

It's like she was toying with him.

You'll never really know what was real or not.

Leslie does draw blurry lines between fantasy and reality.

She just probably wouldn't have expected anyone to start reading between those lines.

But that's what I'm doing now.

And I've uncovered what I reckon is the strangest part of this whole story.

I've found something completely bizarre.

In all those emails in the box of Leslie docs that my dad kept,

they reveal Leslie had a book deal with a big-time publisher

to tell the story of her life.

Well, I am going to start on the book next week.

He believes you would be great at script writing.

Oh, my head is spinning.

Welcome to Unravel Season 4.

I'm Ollie Wards, and this is Snowball.

So Leslie was writing an autobiography, like some kind of memoir of her crazy life.

There's heaps of details about it in her emails.

And who's handling the ins and outs of Leslie's book deal?

Once again, enter Leslie's lawyer, her old mate, Eric T.

Weiss.

As your lawyer, I'm starting to be.

This is the Eric who wrote a letter to Kiwibank confirming that Leslie had a big trust fund.

And he happens to be the namesake of the great Harry Houdini.

Eric sends emails to Leslie as he negotiates her book deal.

If you are willing to sign a contract that they will be your publisher for 10 years, this will allot you to begin on the other three books we have talked about.

And you will only be on yours and Simon ⁇ Schuster's schedule.

And this is where the extra glitz really starts getting sprinkled.

Eric T.

Weiss isn't just a financial kind of dude who deals with trust fund admin.

He's apparently a big shot entertainment lawyer.

That's his main job.

I am an entertainment attorney that has been in the business for over 20 years and have worked with many production companies, celebrities, and musicians.

I guess that explains why Eric runs into so many famous names, like in that note Leslie made in her travel diary that she left in NZ.

May 3, New York.

Eric met George Clooney, Julia Roberts, Private Jet from Dallas.

Movie stars and private jets.

I like to imagine Eric T.

Weiss as like a smarmy LA showbiz type guy.

Kind of arrogant like Ari Gold from Entourage, but shonky, like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad.

I imagine him in a suit with a loud, colourful tie.

And I reckon he's got a comb over.

I have not been in my office during the days due to the fact that I have been defending a celebrity case right now.

It is confidential, so I cannot say who.

So why is this celebrity lawyer working with Leslie then?

Well, from what I can see in these emails, Eric claims to be lining Leslie up to be as rich and famous as the rest of his crowd.

Until you become famous, you are a nobody in this industry.

But you already know that.

It will be worth it one day, Leslie.

So do not get depressed.

Continue to be strong and remember what the end result will bring.

You will be financially secure for life.

And you'll be able to buy your dad that Hummer you keep talking about.

Eric is really encouraging to Leslie.

Like he's beyond what you would expect a lawyer to be.

Which is good because as Leslie explains to her parents, writing a book is hard.

The whole last 10 chapters of the book that was redone has been denied due to the fact that it is too similar to a story that was written by an author about 10 years ago.

Oh, my head is spinning.

But Eric said that lawyers are constantly finding books that are too similar and must avoid a lawsuit.

That is why they are hired as in-house attorneys.

He said it happens all the time and we must rewrite it in a different wording.

So when I read these emails about Leslie getting a memoir published, I thought, well, that takes things up a notch.

But that's not even the big picture.

Because that book about the story of Leslie's life was supposedly going to be made into a movie.

Sony cannot go forward with the movie until the book has been released.

I have recommended that they film in Sun Valley, Idaho, which has the same picturesque setting as Tahoe.

I just can't believe how deep this world goes.

So, we've got Eric T.

Weiss, Esquire, talking through the details of a movie about Leslie based on a book by Leslie.

And that's not all.

Leslie told her parents that for the big screen version, a big name was lined up to play her.

The movie script has been accepted in flying colors.

Alyssa Milano has signed on.

Pretty good casting.

Remember Alyssa Milano from Charmed?

Or is the daughter Arnie goes on a rampage for in Commando?

She has long dark hair like Leslie's.

Good choice.

Alyssa Milano will be an NZ in November.

She's going to hang out with me for a week or two to know my personality.

Study it.

So I'll have to be on vacation from Greg and his family at that time.

I hope we have a house by then so I do not have to sneak around his family.

Eric said that I will be getting paid starting July.

Sounds like some real method acting from Alyssa Milano taking on the role of Leslie.

Ever since I read these emails, I can't stop wondering what a movie about Leslie would be like.

In a world where one woman's fantasies come to life,

private Jack from Dallas.

This summer, Alyssa Milano is Leslie Minoukian in

the girl with the dragonfly tattoo.

So

obviously that movie never came out because it's fictional.

Fictional in the sense that it didn't exist.

That goes for the book too.

I got in touch with Simon ⁇ Schuster, the book publisher.

I was curious, even though I knew what they would say.

And yeah, they've never heard of Leslie Minoukian or Eric T.

Weiss, Esquire.

I also hit up Alyssa Milano's manager, Ditto.

Alyssa's manager actually told me after I called and explained all this to her, both she and Alyssa googled Leslie.

They found something about a restaurant and Alyssa Milano was like, I was supposed to play a chef?

So it's all a fantasy.

But the amazing thing about this bizarro world is just how detailed it is.

There's this whole cast of characters.

It's not just Eric.

There's ghostwriters, agents, publishers.

There's even drama between these people.

We are having legal problems with James.

He is not satisfied with any of the book and is threatening to sue Simon and Schuster if they do not present better writing.

Can you believe this jerk?

He has nothing to do with it besides his name and he is the one making threats.

As your lawyer, I am starting to make threats.

Also.

Eric has so much going on making things happen for Leslie that he has his own team around him.

Hi, Leslie.

Hope this email finds you well.

At the moment, I am back in Bangkok, still dealing with legal issues.

Charlie rang me last night, and things are changing again.

I realize that you are being tossed around, and I wish I could make this process easier on you.

As of now, you are to remain in the UK, and Alyssa is going to meet you in London for the entire month of June to get to know you personally.

I think Charlie is one of his assistants.

And sometimes, Eric gets so busy that another assistant, Jackie, takes control of his Gmail account.

Good afternoon, Mrs.

Minoukian and Mr.

Minoukian.

I'm writing on behalf of Eric.

He has had to fly out for an important meeting and had hoped to be back by this afternoon, but is delayed until tomorrow morning.

Thank you for your patience.

Jackie, EA for Eric Weiss.

Then Eric even has to come back in and explain where Jackie has gone.

Dear Betty and Andy, I am very sorry for not being in touch sooner.

Everything here has been very hectic.

I have been handling legal problems and Jackie is going to be out for at least three months.

She has had to have a hysterectomy.

So many specific details.

A hysterectomy.

It's like a soap opera in Leslie's inbox.

This isn't where I thought this trail would take me, but I'm kind of into learning about these characters.

Leslie even has a ghost

called Scooter.

Scooter came in to see me last night.

It was like old times seeing him at the bar.

He really has a great personality.

Once you get to know him, after a couple of glasses of port, he was talking to all the other people around him.

Scooter was helping to write Leslie's book and movie script.

He was apparently even in New Zealand with Leslie.

But of course, Greg never met him.

That's a shame because Scooter sounded like he was having a good time.

I spoke to Scooter.

He is loving and sad.

He said it is starting to get cold.

Winter is approaching.

But everyone is so friendly and helpful.

He's already made a couple of friends and he is shocked that no one is pretentious or snobby.

All classes of people hang out with each other.

He said there is no elite crowd.

He also said that he has never slept so peaceful and it is very quiet around his home.

He has never been so at ease with himself.

He sounded so calm and clear-headed.

He asked about you and dad and says hello.

I keep asking myself, are these characters too detailed to be fake?

And I guess that's the purpose of all these subplots and characters.

There's just so much banal detail, it's hard to imagine someone making it up.

If Leslie was creating all these characters, then in a weird way, it's almost like she was writing a book.

But it's just a fictional world created in emails.

So the big question about all of this book and movie stuff is why?

As detailed and complex as this fake world is, I reckon Leslie probably invented it to serve a few purposes.

Firstly, most of these emails, in some way or another, are about money.

Like here, Eric is hustling royalty payments for Leslie.

I have notified Sony that you are to receive income starting June 15th at the amount of $3,500 per month.

And I have sent a written threat to Simon and Schuster that you are to receive $2,000 a month until the book is finished.

It looks like Eric's emails are a useful way for Leslie to show people that she's either going to have some big cash money payments coming in any day now

or to explain why some money hasn't arrived.

And then these emails are forwarded on to whoever Leslie owes money to.

And sort of sadly, the main target of a lot of the smoke and mirrors seems to be Leslie's own parents.

Eric even writes directly to them.

Hi, Andrew and Betty.

It has been over two months since our last emails to one another.

I hope that everything is all right.

It has been a long journey for me in Bangkok, an experience I hope to forget.

My stomach is still groaning from the food.

And I have actually lost quite a bit of weight.

That's the big shot lawyer telling his client's parents about his travel stomach.

Aside from the small talk, one of the main things Eric emails Betty and Andrew about is royalty money.

Royalty money they're expecting from these book and movie deals.

And that's convenient because we know that that around this time they said that they were in deep shit debt and Leslie owed them money.

But when these royalties don't come in, Eric has to explain.

Leslie has been on my tail about the pre-royalty payments from Simon ⁇ Schuster and Sony.

I have your scan of bank details and I am working on this as fast as possible.

Eric is like a buffer between Leslie and her parents.

If money owed to Leslie's parents is delayed, Eric has a good reason.

Or he steps in when she's not covering a bill.

Like, while Leslie was in New Zealand, she had a speedboat in storage back in America.

Fees were racking up, and her parents started getting calls about all the bills.

So, Eric comes to the rescue.

Thank you for following up with the boat.

In Leslie's defense, I know that they were notified and kept up to date on the situation.

We are just not sure who it was that fed us the info and the storage fees.

But who beat a dead horse?

Let's just get to the root of the problem and move on.

As well as explaining money stuff to Betty and Andrew, Eric serves a purpose of weirdly vouching for Leslie.

Have a nice night, and I look forward to settling this matter for you and Andrew.

And let's leave Leslie in New Zealand where no one can hurt her or her character.

She is a great girl who is just too nice and too trusting.

But these are the qualities that people love most about her.

I guess if you have a character covering for you for not paying bills and stuff, why not have them pump up your Reeboks and talk you up as a person too?

Wherever in the world there is trouble with Leslie, Eric swings in with an explanation.

Lake Tahoe, next to Hawaii, is one of the most corrupt communities I have done research on.

Maybe that takes the heat off Leslie when her parents hear bits and pieces contradicting her stories.

And throughout it all, it does look like at least Betty thinks Eric and his assistants and all the book chat and even Eric's Bangkok travel gut are real.

Here's what Betty wrote back to Jackie.

So glad that Eric is okay.

If you can say what he is experiencing is okay.

Maybe he's the one who should write a book.

Well, hope he gets back soon safe and sound.

Again, thanks for all your help and keeping us up to date.

Betty.

I feel like every time I read through these emails dad cut and pasted into Word docs, I figure out another piece of the puzzle.

The other day, as I read them again, I started to realize something.

A lot of these emails are directly between Eric and Leslie's parents.

For ages, I just figured that they had ended up in this box because Betty must have forwarded them to Leslie, or she was CC'd.

Dad usually didn't take screenshots.

he just copy-pasted the text.

So there's often only from and two names and a date.

But now I'm thinking, hang on, it's weird how many of these direct emails between Eric and Betty and Andrew we have.

How did my dad see these ones in Leslie's account?

Were they really all forwarded on to Leslie?

Sometimes they're even talking about Leslie in these emails.

Like here, Eric tells Betty and Andrew he's not going to make it to the event in New Zealand.

I am not sure I will make it for Leslie's wedding.

I have not told her yet, since I do not want to disappoint her.

Am I missing something?

So I asked Dad.

There's emails that are directly from

Eric to Leslie's parents,

and it's like she's not on CC, so I don't understand how you have those emails.

I was also getting emails.

I was spying, if you like, on Eric's emails

as well as Leslie's.

How did that happen?

Because it's at one stage,

this is when I started thinking

that Leslie seemed to be using Eric as her kind of alter ego or something.

And I started to think about that.

And then I was thinking, well, if she is Eric,

then

maybe

I can look at Eric's emails with her password.

And I did, and it worked.

Why didn't you tell me this when we were talking about the hair?

Eric

told you this.

He definitely didn't.

I think I would remember that.

When I went back to New Zealand to start this investigation, I asked Dad to step me through everything chronologically.

We mustn't have got to that bit.

I'm sure of talking about that.

Like, I've been through this whole thing trying to find the real Eric T.

Weiss

and the dude in Michigan and all that stuff.

How long after

you contacted him and how long after you started accessing Leslie's emails?

I've been

before I twigged.

I can remember where I was in the basement there.

And

it was a bit of a breakthrough moment, as you can imagine.

And I still find it odd that she went to the great lengths as she did,

if in fact Eric is her,

that his emails to her,

he emailed her as well, of course, giving her advice.

And she emailed him telling him how terrible things were and blah blah blah.

And

so I thought Eric did exist.

And it wasn't

and I still wouldn't write that off,

even though the password seems to hang about us being the same.

So, you're saying that the password that you were using for Leslie's emails

is exactly the same password that logs in to the account for Eric T.

Weiss, which is a Gmail account.

So, it's the same password, two different accounts.

Yes.

And the

fact is.

Oh my god, I just

can't believe that I've I've been

that I've that I haven't nailed this yet.

You know, I've been working on this thing for eight months

and

it turns out that you had access to Eric T.

Weiss's inbox as well as Leslie's.

Like, don't you think that's crucial?

Like, I'm sure I told you.

I just,

I am just absolutely like.

Obviously, you didn't get it.

Leslie is Eric.

I am just

like

I don't even know what to make of this whole thing now.

It's crazier than I thought it was.

So there it is.

Eric and Leslie had the same email password.

Ladies and gentlemen.

Leslie

the great Houdini.

After reading all these emails over and over, wondering about whether the people in them are real or not, I kind of feel like I know the gang.

Eric, Jackie, Scooter.

Dad says the emails from Eric's account slowed down after a while.

Eric and the gang's story started to come to an end.

I am working long hours trying to get these contracts back in place.

Not to mention I am getting tired of the music scene.

It is grueling hours, and most of the bands that I represent are immature punks whose heads are up their rears.

I found out today that Jackie has been put on permanent disability and will definitely not be coming back to work.

So Scooter is going to help me out three days a week.

Jackie the EA's hysterectomy mustn't have gone well.

Okay, so now we know pretty much for certain that this whole world really is in Leslie's imagination.

So if Leslie created and played the role of Eric and Jackie and Scooter and probably more I don't even know about, it just seems so weird the lengths she went to to deceive her own parents.

At the very least, Betty seems totally convinced that Eric is real.

And to be fair, other people were convinced by Leslie's world along the way.

even Kiwibank.

It feels like Leslie herself might be so far into this fantasy that she sort of believes in it.

Or at least she uses the characters to create an ideal version of herself and a world that she had liked to live in.

Scooter feels that you have what it takes to be a wonderful writer.

He believes you would be great at script writing.

It makes me think, Am I trying to understand something more complicated with Leslie than where I first started?

Leslie doesn't just use fake documents.

It looks like Leslie is prepared to use fake personas.

So tracking her down and working out what's real and what's not could be more difficult than I thought.

But I have to give it a go.

I need to get onto Leslie's home turf.

I need to go to the US.

I can only find out more about what's real by playing an away game.

This is a trip my family has always wondered about.

Every time there was an airfare to Los Angeles that was a good price, we'd think, let's get on that

and go and find her.

Before I get on a plane, I want to understand what they would want as closure.

Years ago, I remember mum saying she was tempted to want some sort of revenge.

I asked her about that.

I know, I wouldn't say revenge was the word, what really

in the early days I just thought, you

poor silly

woman,

what have you done?

No, it was never revenge, it was to get Greg healed.

To be in something like this, you feel like you've got to have the last word, maybe to see that they haven't destroyed you.

But to let them have a moment of discomfort.

And while my dad spent years investigating this himself, he wasn't after revenge either.

Just answers.

I wasn't revengeful or really wanting compensation.

If there was some available, I wouldn't turn it down, of course.

But the prime goal was to figure out what the heck was going on here.

Dad found out a surprising amount of stuff from my auntie's basement in Auckland.

But eventually, he had to put it all aside and get a job.

I had to pull finger and do something, you know.

You had retired.

Yeah, I had retired really.

So I had to sort of rejig my life a bit there.

What I would really like is for her to acknowledge that she's caused a lot of strife, to basically

understand

what she's done

and to

try and not do things like this in the future.

And my brother Greg would like to hear Leslie say sorry.

Oh,

I wouldn't mind getting an apology.

Well, not for me, but for mum and dad.

Yeah, an apology would be nice.

Before Dad packed up the big box of Leslie docks, he had one last ditch idea about how to tie up some loose ends.

Dad pitched this story to America's TV drama magnate and moustache enthusiast, Dr.

Phil.

The letter he wrote is five pages long and there's a bunch of attachments.

I thought my bro Simon might be interested in seeing it.

Simon, you know how dad was pretty obsessed with investigating this whole thing?

Did you know he actually

wrote a letter to Dr.

Phil pitching our story?

Are you serious?

Have you got any

story?

Look, this is it here.

It's in Comic Sans font.

Oh my god, it's so 80s.

And I really like the top line of it.

It says, a tale of deception, fraud, narcissism, and devastation.

That's my impression of dad.

It's straight off the bat, like,

intense.

It's brilliant.

What do you think of my impression of dad?

I mean, yeah, I know what you're getting at.

Like, it's slightly exaggerated, but pretty spot up.

Even though I'm now investigating this story for Australia's national broadcaster, every time I call Dad, he still brings up getting our story and Leslie on Dr.

Phil.

You know, mum was looking at Dr.

Phil the other day, and mum and I were saying, she needs to get on Dr.

Phil.

I don't know why you're obsessed with Dr.

Phil, Ayans.

Well,

he gets to the bottom of things.

I'm getting to the bottom of things.

I know you are.

I may not be Dr.

Phil, but I'm going to back that up and get answers for my family.

It's time to get on a plane to the United States.

Greg isn't coming with me to the US, and I get that.

He wants answers and an apology for what Leslie did to him, but he doesn't want to wade that far back into this part of his life.

All right, touchdown USA.

Here I am in LA.

Every time I come here, I kind of think about doing the mission that I'm about to set off on, going to find Leslie and hear her side of the story.

It's just unreal to actually be doing it this time.

The lead up to this trip has been kind of nerve-wracking.

I felt like I needed some support.

So my other brother, Simon, is coming for backup.

I meet up with him at the airport.

Oh, there he is.

There's my boys.

My bro.

Simon arriving after what a 15 hour flight.

He looks pretty fresh.

Easy to look fresh when you've got no hair though.

How are you man?

That's horrible.

Layover in Fiji for eight hours is pretty tired.

Just good to see you though.

Me too bro.

The plan is to jump in a car and work our way through the places I think Leslie might have lived.

When I show Simon the car that I've hired, he's not best pleased that I went for the economy hatchback.

So he insists on an upgrade.

We've got a muscle car, we got a 2019 Dodge Challenger here.

It looks like a stingray on wheels.

Yeah, but I kind of feel like a pack of cocks as well.

Is it a part of that going on?

You know what I mean?

It's definitely a, people will look at it and kind of go, are you trying to enhance something here?

Oh, yeah.

It's not the most inconspicuous car to be driving around in as we try to sniff out information.

The first rule of trying to be a detective is incognito.

Look stylish.

Our first stop is to cruise by the house Leslie grew up in.

I just want to understand where she really comes from.

We're just going to like kind of park maybe even just here, which is right on the corner.

We need to kind of figure out which house it is.

Actually, let's just do a drive-by.

So

how would you describe this area, man?

Well, it's a big fear.

like it's not exactly what you'd...

It doesn't scream trust fund.

This place is exactly how my brother Greg first described it.

It's classic Middle America.

Houses close together, grassy front yards without fences.

We pull up across the road.

There's a blue and a red car parked in the driveway, so...

No, it's the house beside there, old.

It's the one up there.

Okay, mate.

First rule of a stalk out.

Suss out which house it is.

So it's the one beside that.

Now we're looking at the right house, it doesn't look like anyone's home.

Leslie had used this address a lot over the years.

Like, it's the home with that phone number given to Kiwi Bank that was supposedly for Eric T.

Weiss.

Someone in this house apparently took the bank's call to vouch for Leslie's trust fund.

Betty and Andrew might still live here, but we figure it's too early to try and talk to them.

I need to find Leslie first.

If she had warning I'm out here looking for her, she could go to ground and I might never find her.

At different times, Leslie's lived all over the state of California, and what I think was Leslie's first bar before New Zealand, before Hawaii, her first business ever, as far as I can tell, was up the top of the state in a place called Tahoe.

That's where we're going to start knocking on doors.

So we head off on the long drive north.

I have to say, you've made a pretty unusual choice of snacks, bro.

I mean, like,

who gets banana chips and beef jerky?

Man, I was, well, I was, I wanted to stay away from sugar, but so I've just gone to-I don't know what-I don't know what you'd call that, to tell you the truth.

I know, just beef jerky is just

like eating a velm.

Have you tried that?

Yeah, it's gross.

No, it's actually edible, it's leather.

Give me some

chips.

Don't have any?

Yeah, we'll have to stop again sometime.

After some bad snacks and a long drive, the palm trees give way to pine trees as we climb an altitude.

And high up in the mountains, we finally spot Lake Tahoe.

Wow, this is a beautiful spot.

I'm sitting on a boulder at a mountain pass.

There's snow on the ground all around me, pine trees in the distance.

Rolling hills have snow all over them and out to my left I can see the shimmering blue of Lake Tahoe and we've come here because

this is where Leslie owned her first bar the breakwater which is what the one in Hawaii was named after and Simon's taking a picture of the lake next to me Simon we've come here

but okay

Well, it was 20 years ago that Leslie was here.

It's quite a transient town.

There's a lot of sort of tourist operators.

It's seasonal.

So in my inquiries so far, I've actually found it quite hard to speak to anybody that was here in the early 2000s.

Is there anybody?

I've been told that the guy who sort of runs the place that Leslie had, her business, remembers things.

And I was told that...

And so he's still about?

Yeah, and he said through somebody else that he didn't want to talk because he thought Leslie runs with a pretty dodgy crowd and he was a bit scared.

Okay, well,

what's he going to be like like once we turn up on his doorstep?

Oh I have to be nice.

Before we start talking to the locals though I've got some documents I want to look at.

Walking into the Eldorado court taking a shortcut over some snow.

I've searched the court records online.

It seems like there might have been some drama here as well.

And Simon's just pulled up to pick me up.

I've got a couple of papers to talk him through that I managed to get from in there.

Hey man.

So what's the goss?

So there were about eight cases versus the Minookians that come up on the online search, but it's important to note that these didn't end up in a judgment.

So there was some sort of settlement before

they went too far.

But these files were put through to the court.

And they basically look like

Leslie and Andrew, because he was the licensee of the Breakwater in Tahoe, weren't paying their rent.

When you say Andrew, you mean her dad.

Her dad.

Yeah.

There's been at least a couple of times where they got served a notice and I'll just read it out to you.

Please take notice that you were in default of payment in rent in the estimated amount of $11,519.

This is the kind of thing that happened in New Zealand and Hawaii.

So the pattern goes back 20 years.

The interesting thing is this time, her parents might have been involved in the business.

Their names are on the paperwork as managers and licensees of the bar.

To me, this just says that there was

perhaps not the slickest of management of the breakwater in Tahoe, and it's reminiscent of the dragonfly for sure, sort of having bills not being paid and people chasing them.

Yeah, it was exactly the same.

People were serving notices all over the show.

But these documents can only tell me bits and pieces.

I want to talk to the landlords who were chasing that rent from Leslie.

Her bar was in a marina, a a group of shops and restaurants right on Lake Tahoe.

So we head over to the marina to see who we can find.

This is the spot where the breakwater was.

There's the Artemis Cafe here, which is where the breakwater was.

I'm looking at it now.

It's kind of got a log cabin feel to it.

The rest of the marina has boat hire and a grill that's right out on the water, looking out at the lake of Tahoe, which is super nice.

And it's a great spot that Leslie had chosen for the first hospitality business she had the breakwater and I'm basically going to go in there now and just skulk around and see if I can find anybody who was here 20 years ago that might be able to tell me anything

I remember a night they used to have like some rager parties out in the in front of the plaza there kind of outdoors and it used to be pretty packed She did good business from what I understand.

Right.

And by she, you mean Leslie, the lady who owned the breakwater?

Yes, I think she had a partner, but I can't remember who it was.

All these memories I'm finding are pretty vague, but I know there's a guy around here who's been running the marina the whole time.

I heard this guy remembers Leslie, but that he keeps to himself.

Also, apparently he's nervous about stirring anything dodgy out.

I reckon I can explain things if I can just find him.

I can't even find any pictures online, so I don't know who I'm looking for.

There are offices above the shops I'm wandering through.

I see an open door, so I go upstairs.

Hello.

Just as I give up and go to leave, I walk right into him in the car park.

He didn't want to be recorded or named, but the conversation I had with him was pretty interesting.

When I found Simon again, I turned my recorder back on.

Alrighty, bro.

Yeah, so that guy was happy to confirm for me that he reckoned her parents owned the break water that was here and she was running it for them.

And his words were, she ran it into the ground, she didn't pay rent, and we had to evict her.

So I guess that lines up with what we found from the court today.

And lines up pretty hard with the dragonfly, too.

She's definitely good at bearing restaurants.

So Leslie's business in Tahoe ended in a bin fire, like the ones after it in Hawaii and NZ.

But could there be a difference to the pattern in Tahoe?

Maybe Leslie's parents were involved here.

Leslie's dad Andrew must have had a sense about what happened in Tahoe.

He was named on a bunch of those court filings I found where the marina owner was chasing rent.

Both Betty and Andrew are on the Tahoe Breakwater Bars business paperwork as managers as well as the liquor license.

We've heard about how people in Hawaii and my family in NZ tried to talk to Leslie's parents about what was going on.

So are Leslie's parents just hapless victims in all this?

Or are they turning a blind eye to what Leslie does?

When Andrew wrote to my parents after the collapse of the dragonfly, could he have been alluding to his own experience?

As far as our empathy for you, it is more than you realise.

My next lead is the most recent I've found so far.

It's a clue about where Leslie went after she left New Zealand.

It's an online review of yet another restaurant, somehow only four years after the Dragonfly and my family went bust.

It reads like Leslie was back on her feet.

Leslie's next restaurant was called Phenomenal.

The whole Phenomenal concept was extremely well thought out and executed by owner Leslie Manoukian.

Her prior experience of owning and operating a burger bar in Lake Tahoe, a California quizzes.

Yeah, it's called Phenomenal with an F in a town called Passarobles.

I wonder if she tricked into that.

Yeah, successful.

Yeah, I mean, it's made a lot of people unsuccessful to be fair, but.

So we're going to go to Passarobles and we're going to ask around and find out what happened with Phenomenal.

Hello!

This is just insane.

She told me never fall in love with a Kiwi.

They're the worst men.

I have the worst news ever.

Oh shit, she's done it again.

A private investigator showed up at my door.

You did that on purpose, you fucking manipulative bitch.

She loved you?

No, not at all.

That's next time on Snowball.

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