03 Huntsman | Separation

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This is an old like cassette type. Oh, here we go.
Sony handycam.

So

I mean, it would have been modern in 1996 probably when we bought it. Yeah.

so.

Etched in time on an old handicam tape is Lisa Lynn.

Her neighbour Bronwyn Will plays an old videotape of one of their happiest days at a Wiggles tribute concert. It was at a hall in

probably somewhere like Altona or... It's September 1998.

And Lisa and Greg now have two sons.

Lisa's toddler is transfixed by the stage. by Dorothy the dinosaur, and backup dancers doing the running man and flapping their arms like chickens.

Lisa looks polished in a polo shirt and pearl earrings. She barely takes her eyes off her son.
That's the way she was. She was always nicely turned out, and

the kids were always nicely turned out. You know, she took great pride in that sort of stuff.
She smiles adoringly and fusses over him, adjusting his blue sailor hat. If you can still it or

stop the frames, you can see the joy in her eyes, you know,

how much fun she was having just watching him. Lisa is on the very right edge of the frame.
Just those two, three little glimpses, just out of grasp. Yeah.

Also just out of grasp was the life she thought she'd have. when she had a family.
Her two sons were born in 1997 and 98.

Those kids were the high watermark of her life, like she really wanted to be a mum. She just loved the boys to bits.
Lisa knew how to handle their little idiosyncrasies. The oldest boy,

he was very difficult with his food. And if you had peas and carrots on a plate, the peas couldn't touch the carrots.
And the second little guy, once he got moving,

that little guy, he was off he'd just go anywhere and everywhere Lisa's friends say she'd been nervous about how parenting would go with Greg

at first she even hesitated to tell him she was pregnant I said well why didn't you tell Greg and she said I just wanted wanted that news for myself for a while

whether that was the truth or whether she was worried about telling him or I don't know having kids did nothing to make the relationship more peaceful.

Greg was a pilot, a job that revolves around order and control. But home life with small kids involves little of either.
When kids come into a relationship, they are disruptive in the sense of

the nature of your relationship changes. There's a more important person than your partner.

There'd be times Greg would be great with the children, but Lisa told people that he sometimes struggled when the kids got upset and found it difficult to deal with pretty normal kid behaviour.

As a pilot, fatigue is dangerous. Getting a good night's sleep is important.

But friends say Greg took it too far. He regularly slept away from Lisa and the kids.
He even took to sleeping outside in a tent.

Through it all, Lisa kept hoping that things could get better and that the relationship could recover.

I remember her saying to me,

The best thing a father can do for their children is to love their mother.

She wanted to have a family where mum and dad were at home, mum and dad loved each other, and, you know, that was the best for her kids. But that's not how things were turning out.

And soon, everything would fall apart.

Two decades later, Greg Lynn would commit murder and brutally burn the remains of two missing campers in Victoria's high country.

But what kind of a person would do that?

What clues can we find in his earlier life?

In this episode, his marriage to his first wife, Lisa, crumbles,

and she makes a plan to disentangle herself from him.

But it won't be easy.

I'm Rachel Brown, and this is Huntsman, the latest season of Unravel.

The end of Lisa's marriage arrived in the form of an old-school film canister. She found it rattling around in Greg's navigation bag, the one he took to work every day.

Lisa took the negatives to get developed. I can remember saying, well, what were in the photos? And she said, well, they were he and a girl doing some fun things while they were on an overnight.

Greg and another woman smiled out from photos of a getaway they'd taken together. I can remember her saying, they were, you know, having a lot of fun, they'd hired a car.
She said, we never do that.

Greg had been having affairs while on overnight job assignments greg said it was over many times before and he'd moved in and out of the house a lot but this seems to be when it became real for lisa

the day after she discovered the photos her friend came over we're calling this friend jane

lisa poured her heart out to jane about the photos his betrayal everything

There were quite a few tears from Lisa. I can remember the tears.
Jane and Lisa sat drinking coffee.

And Jane says while they sat there, Greg was packing some of his stuff to move it out, calmly pottering around the house, gathering his belongings, wandering in and out of the room where Jane and Lisa were talking.

Every time he came into the room, she said, I love you, Greg. I really, really do love you.
She was pleading, and I thought, oh, this is not good.

It seemed that despite everything, Lisa still didn't want the marriage to end.

But Greg had decided it was over.

He had a new girlfriend. She was a flight attendant like Lisa.
And within weeks, they'd moved in together.

For a long time, Lisa had maintained a brave face. Occasionally, she had let things slip about certain particularly scary or painful chapters.
But saving face, putting on a good front.

It came with the Mount Massadin postcode and with Lisa's personality.

A lot of people, even some of her closest friends, had no idea what was going on at home.

When Greg moved out, Lisa didn't even tell her airline buddy, Heather Quenneville, who was also the godmother to one of her kids.

Heather only found out after she ran into Greg at the airport.

I saw Greg and he was coming towards me

and he just looked right through me and walked past me and you could feel

the hatred or something just emanating from him. And I was thinking, what the hell is going on? I said, oh, hi, Greg, but I was nervous to even say it because his body language and

yeah, it was disdain, absolute disdain. Heather called Lisa to ask what was going on.

And that's when Lisa finally broke down. She said, come out, my parents are here.
And yeah, and that's when I learned it all.

Heather made the drive out to Zigzag Road. Lisa's parents were there too.
They'd flown over from Tasmania to be with her. As they all sat around an antique dining table, Lisa let it all out.

The anatomy of a toxic relationship. It really opened up and I was just aware then of the full extent and it was just really, really heartbreaking.

Heather says Lisa hung her head, her body closed over and beside her, her parents just sobbed.

I guess it's that feeling of when finally everything's out in the open and you know your mum and dad are there and I think she just felt like a kid again and very vulnerable and

Yeah, and she was scared. She didn't like being by herself out there.

She told them about the time he tied her up outside and hosed her down in the freezing cold as punishment for her drinking too much.

She told them about the mind games, about the control and the abuse and the threats.

Everything she'd desperately been trying to ignore or placate or hold together or smile through bubbled to the surface. To be honest, I was in shock with the level of

what I was hearing. I mean, I knew there was something not right.

Hearing that, I could then look back on the last few years and understand

why she was the way she was. So

she was living in so much fear that she would never trust herself to say anything to anybody until

it was kind of too far gone. I couldn't believe that this woman sitting in front of me who was just so amazing had been dealing with that that undercurrent and that that fear the whole time

in a relationship breakdown there's always two sides to every story and it's worth noting that people's memories might now be coloured by what Greg Lynn went on to do

To try to get a clearer picture of what happened in Greg and Lisa's relationship, we've spoken to dozens of people, neighbours, friends and colleagues.

But for the things that happened when only Lisa and Greg were present, a lot of the accounts we've heard stem from Lisa's version of events, the things she told people she was closest to at the time.

We'd like to be able to hear Greg Lynn's response to this, but we're unable to put questions to him. More about that in later episodes.

So, in our reporting, we've tried to draw on police documents and other sources to try to understand Greg's side as best we can.

After Greg and Lisa split, intense events unfolded, which these two saw through very different lenses.

In Greg's eyes, Lisa's reactions to things were just because she was sour, because he'd left her for another woman. In the eyes of Lisa and her mates, What unfolded next was simply more of the same.

Greg using fear to exert control.

And the moment she pushed back is when everything started to escalate.

At first, things between Lisa and Greg were civil. Greg even asked Lisa to help him get a loan from the bank, which strikes me as odd given they were separating.
Clearly, Lisa thought so too.

and she said no.

This did not go down well.

Lisa said Greg called her, threatening, don't fuck with me or you'll be sorry. I'll make your life very difficult.

Lisa stood her ground, refused again, and changed the locks on the house. Greg made more requests.
He wanted the car. It was on a lease from his work, so he decided to come and get it.

In the middle of the night.

It's March 1999.

Lisa is at home in the storybook Bluestone House on Zigzag Road. She's put the boys to bed for the night.
Was late at night. Greg waits until he knows everyone in the house is asleep.

She wouldn't have necessarily known he was in the garden waiting for her.

I think they're on two acres or something, so he could have sat quite easily, sat out of view, and you know, not made a noise.

Greg creeps around to the side of the house.

He takes a sledgehammer and swings it into the side door, breaking it open, cracking a pane of glass in the process. He had to

force entry into the house to get the keys, and I think that's how Lisa heard him. Lisa calls the police and reaches out to her nearest neighbours, Bronwyn Will and her then husband Robert, for help.

I don't know if she knocked on the door or she rang us, but she said, can you come over? Greg's just broken into the house. And then we both went across the road.

Robert and Bronwyn enter the house with caution. They know by now that Greg Lynn is someone to be wary of.

But there's no sign of him. He's disappeared, along with the car.

Bronwyn waits with Lisa for the police to arrive. Lisa was, you know, was a bit...

rattled and a bit frantic and said, oh, Greg's just broken into the house and he's

he's taken taken the car. He might have felt entitled to the car, but he's sledgehammered into the house in the dead of night.

I would have been swearing like a trooper. I would have been just

so upset and offended and angry, whereas she wasn't. She was, you know,

you could tell in her demeanor

that, you know, it had really,

really frightened her. I hadn't seen her like that before.

The police arrive, but instead of just working through her statement with them, Lisa leapfrogs a bit manically between them and phone calls.

She was jumping between topics and or taking a phone call from Greg or calling Greg while the police are there. Like,

you know, stuff that you don't do if you're, you know, if you've got your shit together a bit. Finally, everyone retreats to bed.
But the saga between greg and lisa is far from over

lisa's neighbours bronwen and robert were both lawyers so they wanted to be there for her in the best way they knew how robert decided to confront greg about the car i was outraged yeah

marriages break down and but taking the car i just thought was

completely out of line. Because they were his kids.
I ended up ringing him and saying, Greg, this is going to look really bad for you. This is the only thing that he paid attention to.

It's going to look really bad for you if you've left her with no car. She's got two young children.
They're your kids. What was his reaction to you?

Well, he had a debate with me in a fairly calm voice on the phone.

He wasn't emotional about it. He didn't get angry.
And he brought the car back.

Bronwyn believes the whole car episode was purely about spite because Lisa had refused to act as a guarantor on that personal loan he'd wanted. I think he took the car

in an act of revenge actually to be truthful because from memory the night that he busted into the to the house was

after

Greg had requested Lisa to sign a personal guarantee for him.

According to a police document, Greg later admitted to them that he did this to make Lisa's life harder and that he said to her, quote, see,

I told you I was going to make life difficult for you.

Bronwyn and Robert, with their legal training, were actually the ones who advised Lisa against getting caught up in the loan.

I personally said, you know, that's a really bad idea. Don't guarantee any loans because if something goes wrong, you're going to be paying.

And I knew that that infuriated him. I remember both of us said to her, get the new girlfriend to go, Garantor.
Why doesn't he do that? What a bloody cheek.

Lisa had no illusions left about her relationship with Greg.

She applied for an intervention order, preventing him from coming near her or their house, unless it had been arranged in advance.

No more subservience. This was her Rubicon.

The point of no return.

Bronwyn says the intervention order made Greg furious.

I understand he got served while he was in the crew room at work with the restraining order and he was really pissed off about it. That probably embarrassed him, I think.

For him, the worst thing would have been this humiliation in front of his peers. He wasn't in control of that narrative.

He wasn't the one putting forward the face that he wanted to be put forward, like the cool, calm, collected, skilled pilot. I think that's what that that would have been

what upset him most. Yeah.

Like a knock to his ego. Yeah, and I suspect he was probably a bit shocked that she did it too.
A magistrate imposed an intervention order, but Greg would break it just 13 days later.

In early April, Greg showed up all of a sudden at the house. It was his son's birthday and Greg had a present.

But this was a breach of the order. He left, but after he was gone, a phone call with Lisa became heated.

Lisa would later tell police that Greg threatened to kill her.

Lisa's friends say this wasn't the first time he'd made a threat like that.

Lisa told them he'd said similar things earlier in the marriage.

Some say he'd told Lisa, I could kill you and no one would be any the wiser.

Others say Greg bragged to her that he could arrange to have her killed and make it look like an accident.

But this time, Lisa went to the police.

She told them that he breached the intervention order and had threatened to kill her.

So Greg Lynn was arrested.

Now in police custody, the officers took Greg to bushland near Mount Massedon.

He'd hidden some things there, some of Lisa's personal belongings.

Except something strange happened out in the bush.

Most people, if they're arrested, I'm guessing, stay put and do as they're told.

Maybe it's because Greg was used to being the one who called the shots. But he told police later later that he'd just had enough.
So he left. He escaped into the bush.

Four hours later, he was re-arrested. Now Greg was cornered and was facing the prospect of punishment for how he'd behaved towards Lisa.

Police charged Greg with breaching the intervention order. and with escaping lawful custody.

Greg pleaded guilty.

He was fined $300 and given a good behaviour bond with no conviction recorded. As for the death threats, according to police documents, Greg later told them,

This was over things that I admit that I said in the heat of the volatile situation, but never intended to carry out.

Lisa withdrew the charge over the threats. She told friends, a charge that serious could cost Greg his pilot's job, and she was afraid of how he might react.

It's a few months after Lisa and Greg have separated, and Lisa is terrified, jittery and hyper-vigilant.

She tells her friends that the police have suggested she might want to get out of the house for a while, but she's worried if she leaves, she'll lose the house.

So she sends her two boys with a nanny to her parents in Tasmania, and she stays behind.

She must feel incredibly worried at this point to feel like she has to send her kids into state for six weeks at a time without video calls when they are both so young, just one and two years old.

Lisa holds herself up in the Bluestone Cottage on Zigzag Road, all alone, constantly checking the locks.

At the time, Lisa has a landline phone, one of those cream-coloured plastic ones from the 90s that's installed on the wall beside the kitchen with a long twisted cord.

Lisa's mate Jane remembers it running hot with calls from Greg. It wouldn't be just one phone call, it would be over and over and over again.

Lisa plays Jane messages that Greg's left her on her answering machine.

Jane barely recognises his voice. She says on these messages, Greg's being spiteful and using obscene language, bragging about his new girlfriend.
Just vicious aggressiveness.

And I can remember thinking at one stage, is this really Greg? Because

I've never ever heard him speak like this.

Yeah, but of course it was. Really, the problem had escalated when Greg had started to have his affair.
He's having an affair, but yet he's harassing

Lisa at the same time.

Lisa is convinced that Greg is outside in the dark, watching her.

Some nights when Lisa's too scared to sleep, Jane sleeps over on the couch downstairs. I went around there and stayed because she was so frightened.

I would say to her, listen, you go upstairs.

and get yourself organised. It's going to be okay.
I'll be down here

and I'll be sitting on the sofa and if he comes in,

he won't. he'll just back back.

Jane is heavily pregnant and terrified.

Like I remember that one night it was really quite windy

and

I was spooked a lot and I thought is that Greg or not but that it was windy and you couldn't see outside. It was very private.
If something did happen, no one would know. I didn't sleep.

I can remember being genuinely frightened. I thought, oh, if he comes in now, I won't be able to

say,

go.

I knew he wouldn't.

By the third time, Jane is asked to stay. She just can't.
She's had enough. I'm really, really worried that something awful is going to happen.

So Lisa turns to others, including her friend Pat.

He was another pilot who knew both Greg and Lisa, and he'd been to barbecues with them. Maybe she thought, of all her friends, he wouldn't be scared of Greg.

I wasn't scared. I mean, I'm not even trying to talk tough.
You know, I'm not scared of him. One night, Pat gets a panicked call from Lisa around 9pm.

She said, he's in the house. He's in the house.
And I said,

he's not in the house, Lisa. He said, no, he's in the house.
I know he's in the house. And she was very, very worked up.
I said, no, he's just trying to scare you.

You know, he's trying to make you feel uncomfortable, like he's got the power and everything else. And she said, no, he's in the house.

Pat tells his partner he's going to make the 40-minute drive to Lisa's house just to put her mind at rest.

I drove in the driveway, met her at the door. I remember going in, just having a bit of a token look around.

She was worried about a couple of cupboards and things like that and had a look for a minute.

And then it wasn't like I went through the house and looked under the beds and in there because I didn't believe anyone was there.

It's almost like what you do for a kid checking under the bed for a monster. Yeah, yeah, she was intimidated and she was scared of him.
Pat discovers nothing.

He thinks Lisa is just jumping at shadows, but he's glad to be there for her regardless. She's so wired at this point, he thinks it must be exhausting.

And Pat knows that Greg isn't going to walk away from this dispute easily. Being a pilot himself, he knows that they're often driven, meticulous and relentless.
We never give up.

You know, you don't have something go wrong on an aeroplane and then say, I can't do this anymore or throw my hands in the air. You just never stop.

If the problems keep coming, you keep fixing them and you keep going and you don't stop till the thing's on the ground and you're walking out the door. We're confident in ourselves.

You can't question yourself. And you make a decision that as things change or evolve, you amend it and do it again.

Pat would also become a target of that same steely determination because Greg seems to think that Pat has chosen a side and he doesn't like it.

So Greg confronts Pat at work. He stood over me.
I was at a desk. and then he stood over me trying to intimidate me saying that this is none of your business.

So I'm not upset or or you know standing by lisa and you i don't have you know i don't have a dog in this fight i don't think he liked lisa and i being lisa speaking to me or to anyone really at the time of the separation with even those supporting her coming under pressure from greg lisa is spiraling she would say to me he's going to kill me No, he's not, Lisa.

He's just trying to scare you. You don't understand him.
You don't know what he's like. He

killed the pet pig and she used to carry on with this story about how he axed it or macheted it or something. And

I said, that's all right, you know, I don't mind hunting. So she said, no, he loved that pig.
He loved that animal so much and just destroyed it. Yeah, and violently.

I just thought he was just trying to intimidate her and scare her and be a bully and

stand over her and make her feel weak.

Anyone would find the animosity and the fear Lisa was experiencing stressful.

But for Lisa, who'd already endured years of instability and abusive behavior in the relationship, it was particularly hard.

As you've already heard, more than half a decade ago, at other difficult points in her relationship with Greg, Lisa had landed herself in hospital by taking pest-killing poison and by drinking cooking alcohol.

Now, Lisa was at another low point.

She was certain she was always being watched and this hypervigilance had worn her right down.

Her GP called me to say that they were very concerned about a conversation she had had.

Lisa's doctor was so concerned that she rang Lisa's close friend, Jane. the one who used to take the night watch on Lisa's couch.
The GP said that she was genuinely concerned about her welfare.

I said, is this serious?

And she said, yes, this is very serious. That same month, Jane's father-in-law had taken his own life.

So that's where Jane's mind immediately went. I got straight onto the blower to Lisa

and said, hey, you know, what are you doing?

So she came around.

And we had a great chat.

I had asked her how she she was travelling and she said she was okay.

She was in a good place.

Not a fantastic place, but she was in a good place.

And I said to her, we've just buried my father-in-law and

it's left our family devastated.

I don't want this to happen to you. I don't want to have to bury you.

And I need to know whether you're contemplating taking your life.

She just said, I have thought of it, but no, I'm not. I'm in a good place.

And I said, if you're ever in that place, I want you to

give me a call.

And she said, no, I've got too much to live for.

And I said, yeah, you have. She was feeling positive.
Not...

She wasn't elated, but she was moving forward.

Jane felt Lisa was on the right track, that things were finally getting better.

Lisa started seeing a counselor and went on antidepressants, things she'd been avoiding while trying to manage her mental health on her own. She even started singing again.

We used to put an ad in the paper and I've got a copy of it.

There, massive music. And we were looking for people to sing in choir.
John Payne ran a local choir and Lisa arrived for an audition just weeks before a performance.

We did a rehearsal and I got to hear her voice. That's the lowest note.
Oh, she could sing that easily.

And she was fun doing all this.

And then I said, right, okay, how much can you get down here?

Well, she could get down to there, which is what tennis sing. John still has the program for the performance.

He takes out one of his handwritten compositions. And then here she would be singing.

I thought she was like a breath of fresh air. She was wonderful.

And a loving life.

By October, so eight months after the separation, her closest friends said her old spark was was flickering back.

Lisa visited Heather Quenneville, her flight attendant mate, in hospital, just before Heather had a baby.

She brought the boys in, and I can remember they were sitting on the bed and they were quiet for about two minutes before they were running around again. But she said, oh,

I'm actually going on a date. I said, are you? She said, yeah.

I said, good for you.

And she was really happy. Like she had a

bit of light in her eyes again.

She seemed really buoyant and

yeah, quite a bit lighter than

what I'd seen before.

That same month, Lisa's friend Jo Matthews, who she'd grown up with in Tasmania, visited with her young daughter.

We packed our backpacks and we went on the train and Lisa was there to pick us up and she drove us and she was really excited to see us. And we went to the house in Mount Macedon.

She cooked a beautiful lunch, as I'd expect, and her two little boys were there. Joe remembers the day well.

We just sat and chatted, and the children played on the mat in front of us.

And

there's an overriding memory I have of that day that later in the afternoon,

we put some music on and danced around in a circle with the kids to the Venga boys we like to party. It was one of those pure, beautiful moments where there was no pretence.

It was just Lisa and I and the children.

It was perfect. It was perfect.
Jo says her past wasn't tormenting Lisa in the same way it used to.

She could see past what was currently going on in her life. It was probably due to the fact that she could think straight.
She was taking the medication. She seemed much calmer.

She'd come down off the ceiling. She wasn't so wound up.
I didn't see her wringing her hands red raw like she used to. Lisa was planning on divorcing Greg.

She was planning that

after a property settlement, if that's what happened, then she might sell the house. She'd had the house valued.
She knew what her assets were worth.

There was this sense that the world was her oyster. and she was looking forward to it.
But the details of the split with Greg hadn't been resolved.

And according to Joe, the demands that he'd been making throughout the year were unfair. He was furious.
He kept making thoroughly unreasonable offers.

He would offer her a lump sum of money for her to go away, for her to leave the house, take the children, never make any claim on child support. never have anything to do with him ever again.

And that was all he was going to accept.

and take it or leave it what was it actually about the house i think it it was about control it was about winning it was about never backing down greg used to say

i've never backed down from a fight and i never will it's all or nothing don't involve me in a fight because i will win i will win lisa i will win.

I remember her telling me that. The separation negotiations had been messy and acrimonious.

A month earlier, when the negotiations collapsed, Greg called Lisa, saying he was moving overseas and Lisa would never see him again.

It would also mean the boys wouldn't see their dad.

But even with all that in the background, in late October, as Lisa and Joe played with their kids and danced to the Venga Boys, Lisa seemed to be rebuilding her life, getting back into things and planning social outings.

Joe and Lisa arranged to catch up for a pre-Melbourne cup picnic. We'd actually started making little cup hats for the children to wear at our picnic.

She was going to come to my house and she was going to bring the two boys and we were going to have a picnic on my lounge room floor and we were going to wear our cup hats.

On the day that we planned the little picnic, she just didn't turn up.

and

I just thought,

you know, she's missed the train, she'll be on the next train.

I'll get the call

and I waited and she didn't turn up.

I called the house

and

the answering machine answered the call.

And I said,

um,

Lisa,

where were you?

I made those fucking little salmon nibbly things that you really liked and you didn't show up. Where the hell were you?

And I was mid-sentence and her mother picked up the phone.

And her mother said,

there won't be any more parties with Lisa, Joe. She's dead.

This season of Unravel is intended to be listened to as a whole, so if you haven't heard all the episodes, you shouldn't draw any conclusions, because you haven't heard all sides of this story.

If you need help with any of the issues raised in this podcast, please check the show notes for phone numbers you can call.

If you'd like to get in touch with me or my team about this story, please email us on unraveled truecrime at abc.net.au

This season of Unravel is hosted and reported by me, Rachel Brown. We've been making this story on Gadigal, Wurundjeri and Wadurawong Land.

This story was developed in collaboration with the ABC's Regional Investigations team under editor Edwina Farley. Research and production by Charlotte King, Andy Burns and Ayla Darling.

Our supervising producer is Yasmin Parry.

Sound design and additional music by Hamish Kemaleri. Theme and additional music by Martin Perelta and Ashley Cadell.

And our executive producer is Tim Roxburgh.

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