White House Envoy In Moscow, MAGA Split On Gaza, Redefining The Attorney General Role

Speaker 1 So you spilled coffee on yourself this morning?

Speaker 2 Everywhere. That's why I'm late.
You're welcome that I came to work.

Speaker 1 Thank you for coming to work. I'm great.

Speaker 2 I spelt it all over myself, changed my clothes all over the floor.

Speaker 1 Are you familiar with the movie Airplane? No.

Speaker 1 There's a scene in which one of the characters says, I have a drinking problem. And the drinking problem is he takes the cup and misses his mouth

Speaker 1 over the shoulder.

Speaker 2 I have a drinking problem, guys.

Speaker 2 White House envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow. His assignment is is to meet again with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 1 President Trump demanded that Russia end the war in Ukraine this week. What are the chances of that?

Speaker 2 I'm Leila Faldil with Stevenskeep, and this is up first from NPR News.

Speaker 2 Some of the president's core supporters are expressing opinions independent of Trump on issues from Gaza to Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 3 There is a fight brewing within the party about what a post-Trump Republican Party looks like.

Speaker 1 Also, why would the Justice Department set up a grand jury investigation of the 2016 election?

Speaker 1 A bipartisan Senate committee unanimously found Russian hackers and propagandists played a role, but President Trump and his allies allege a conspiracy. Stay with us.

Speaker 1 We've got the news you need to start your day.

Speaker 5 Support for NPR and the following message come from NBC News. When the news feels overwhelming, NBC News brings clarity by reporting on the facts that shape daily life for Americans.

Speaker 5 Coverage that looks deeper and stories that connect. NBC News Reporting for America This message comes from Schwab.
At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs.

Speaker 5 That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own.

Speaker 5 Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab.

Speaker 5 Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from BetterHelp.

Speaker 5 This month, BetterHelp's encouraging people to reach out, grab lunch with a friend, call your parents, or even find support in therapy.

Speaker 5 BetterHelp makes it easy with its therapist match commitment and over 12 years of experience matching users with qualified professionals.

Speaker 5 Just like that lunch with a friend, once you reach out, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. Go to betterhelp.com/slash NPR for 10% off your first month.

Speaker 1 White House envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow, where he's expected to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin today.

Speaker 2 President Trump moved up his demand for Russia to end the war in Ukraine or face economic penalties. His deadline is by the end of this week.
Does Russia care?

Speaker 1 That's the question for NPR's Charles Mainz, who's on the line from Moscow.

Speaker 4 Hey there, Charles. Morning, Steve.

Speaker 1 What is Steve Witkoff's assignment?

Speaker 4 You know, he would seem to have this would be a last-ditch effort for Russia to come to a deal on Ukraine, at least according to Trump's calendar.

Speaker 4 This is Trump, after all, who's driving this drama, having delivered a 50-day deadline and then shrinking it to 10 amid frustration about these ongoing Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities, despite months of U.S.-led peace efforts.

Speaker 1 So the president has said, if you don't meet my deadline, I'm going to sanction you. But I'm thinking back over the last few years, the U.S.
has imposed a lot of sanctions on Russia.

Speaker 1 They do seem to have hurt Russia's economy, but didn't make it collapse and didn't deter Russia and Ukraine. So what more is President Trump threatening to do?

Speaker 4 Well, he's threatening so-called secondary sanctions and tariffs on Russian energy exports.

Speaker 4 In other words, penalizing countries like China and India that have really propped up Russia's war machine with the purchases of oil and gas. Here is Trump explaining the rationale on CNBC on Tuesday.

Speaker 6 If energy goes down low enough, Putin's going to stop killing people. That'll be nice, even though they're his own people that are dying, him and Ukraine.

Speaker 6 But Putin will stop killing people if you get energy down another $10 a barrel. He's going to have no choice because his economy stinks.

Speaker 4 Now, Steve, left unsaid here is that instability in energy markets could, of course, also boomerang back on American consumers.

Speaker 1 Now, when we talk about Steve Witkoff, I have in my head an image of prior visits to Moscow where he's walking across an ornate room and shaking Putin's hand. How has their relationship been?

Speaker 4 Well, you know, they've met four times now since Trump took office. Today will be five.

Speaker 4 And he emerged from those meetings clearly optimistic that a deal between Washington and Moscow over Ukraine is possible, albeit on terms heavily tilted in Russia's favor.

Speaker 4 You know, of course, we know that deal never happened, and that's much to Trump's frustration. And that's prompted this shift in both policy and rhetoric from Trump.

Speaker 4 You know, not only did he provide Ukraine with weapons through NATO allies in Europe, he's since made profane comments aimed at Putin and even engaged in threats of nuclear brinksmanship in kind of a sidebar spat online with Russia's former president, Dmitry Medvedev.

Speaker 4 That's even prompted Trump to order two nuclear submarines to be positioned in, quote, appropriate regions, although it's unclear if that ever happened.

Speaker 1 How is Russia responding to all of this?

Speaker 4 Well, you know, the Kremlin says it has taken note of Trump's comments in the case of these nuclear threats. It says it says urged calm.

Speaker 4 But the point is they've stopped short of really engaging in the back and forth with Trump. And that goes for Putin as well.

Speaker 4 You know, he said almost nothing about Trump's very personal attacks, only making last Friday some cryptic comments in a televised Q session in

Speaker 4 northwestern Russia. Let's listen.

Speaker 4 So here, Putin says rather cryptically that any disappointments come from inflated expectations, adding that negotiations are more effective behind closed doors than in public.

Speaker 4 You know, it's hard not to take that as a dig at Trump, because we know, unlike Putin, he's rather fond of social media.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but so they're going to have a private discussion now, Putin and Witkoff. What are the chances of a deal?

Speaker 4 Well, Putin insists his army is the momentum on the battlefield, therefore, he's given no indication he'll back down. But if that's the case, why get together?

Speaker 4 You know, it seems like both sides might be looking for some kind of compromise or face-saving gesture.

Speaker 4 Perhaps not the full peace Trump is demanding, but something just enough to keep him from fulfilling his threats come Friday.

Speaker 1 And Press Charles Mainz, thanks so much.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Israel's military campaign in Gaza has gone so far that even some American supporters of Israel have questioned it.

Speaker 2 And that includes some Republicans.

Speaker 2 The party has aligned itself with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and the Trump administration has accused universities of failing to crack down on anti-Israel protests.

Speaker 2 But now some prominent Trump supporters are questioning U.S. support for Israel over the starvation in Gaza and people being shot trying to get aid.

Speaker 1 NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonias is covering all this. Franco, good morning.
Good morning, Steve. So what exactly is happening in the Republican Party?

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean, you're seeing a riff within the MAGA universe. I mean, a lot of it has to do with the shocking images of starving children in Gaza and Israel's resistance to allow more aid into Gaza.

Speaker 8 One of Trump's most loyal supporters, Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, last week went so far as to call Israel's actions a, quote, genocide.

Speaker 8 You also have former White House aide Steve Bannon warning Trump that he risks losing support of young Republicans.

Speaker 8 I should note, though, Steve, that back in 2021, Greene was condemned by GOP leaders leaders for comparing COVID safety measures to the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust.

Speaker 1 She certainly has made a variety of statements over time, but how has the president responded to this?

Speaker 8 I mean, we're seeing him tread very, very carefully on this issue.

Speaker 8 For example, after Prime Minister Benjamin Netyahoo said there was no starvation in Gaza, Trump notably broke with the Prime Minister and said there clearly was.

Speaker 8 But Trump has stopped short of directly criticizing Israel for blocking aid shipments and instead has focused on blaming Hamas, though I will add that aid groups have told NPR that they haven't seen any evidence of Hamas systematically diverting aid.

Speaker 1 Okay, so the president is saying a variety of things, too. But let's talk about the political timing here of this divide in the MAGAverse.

Speaker 1 There have been a number of examples of Trump supporters seeming to contradict him.

Speaker 8 Yeah, yes, there has. In June, there was a very public riff between Trump and his supporters over his decision to launch airstrikes in Iran.

Speaker 8 And more recently, his supporters have been pressing Trump to release more information about convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. So the timing really is interesting.

Speaker 8 And I was talking with Republican strategist Alex Conant, who helped run Marco Rubio's presidential campaign.

Speaker 8 He says we're entering the very beginning stages of the lame duck period for Trump's presidency.

Speaker 8 And he sees influencers like Bannon trying to make early moves to try and cement some of their preferred positions on the party.

Speaker 3 There is a fight brewing within the party about what a post-Trump Republican Party looks like. And I think you're seeing the MAGA America First

Speaker 3 trying to be clear that post-Trump, they want the Republican Party to be an America first party.

Speaker 8 And look, Steve, when it comes to Gaza, polls do show that the majority of Republicans still support Israel in the conflict.

Speaker 1 Does any of this mean the president is really in trouble?

Speaker 8 Well, I mean, anytime a president's base is divided, it's kind of awkward.

Speaker 8 I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Stephen Bannon certainly reflect the views of MAGA of the movement, but the question is, can they drive the movement? Republican strategist Sean Walsh says no.

Speaker 9 I just don't think their voices are heard all that much. And even if they are heard, they're not acted upon or paid much attention to.

Speaker 8 Look, and politically, Walsh says Trump needs to be more focused on the midterms and appealing to the majority of Republicans who support Israel.

Speaker 8 And he says that is the greater priority if he hopes to keep control of the House and continue pursuing his agenda.

Speaker 1 NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez, thanks as always for your insights, sir.

Speaker 8 Thank you, Steve.

Speaker 1 Attorney General Pam Bondi has reportedly launched a grand jury investigation into the Obama administration for its handling of the decade-old probe of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

Speaker 2 This was first reported by Fox News and confirmed by other outlets. NPR has not independently confirmed the reporting, and the Department of Justice declined to comment.

Speaker 2 But it does indicate a larger trend that blurs the lines between the Justice Department, which has historically been mostly independent, and the White House.

Speaker 1 Since we're talking about politics in the Justice Department, we've brought in NPR senior political editor and correspondent, Domenico Montenaro. Domenico, good morning.
Hey, good morning, Steve.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what are you hearing from the president about what's going on in the Justice Department?

Speaker 10 Well, what he's done here is pretty typical for Trump, you know, really ripping from his playbook of how to deal with something controversial by trying to deflect responsibility while at the same time weighing in on that very thing.

Speaker 10 Here he was in an interview Tuesday on CNBC.

Speaker 7 Sam is doing a great job. I have nothing to do with it.
I will tell you this.

Speaker 7 They deserve it. I was happy to hear it.
I actually read it just like you did. I have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 10 I have nothing to do with it, he says. You know, we've heard that so many times before Trump goes on and tells everyone what he actually thinks should be done with that controversial thing,

Speaker 10 whatever it should be. This is the dance he so often does.
And it's perhaps a way for him to say what he wants his attorney general to hear.

Speaker 10 You know, that he's happy to hear that there's an investigation, that his political opponents deserve it.

Speaker 1 And in other words, good job, keep it up. Now, with that said, the president has sometimes had awkward relationships with his attorneys general.

Speaker 10 Right, and that's part of his leverage with the people that work for him. You know, he always seems one bad day, one disagreement away from employing his reality show catchphrase, you're fired.

Speaker 10 And he's had tensions with past attorneys general. You know, he's shown a willingness to fire them when they do something that he disagrees with.

Speaker 10 We know that there was tension, obviously, with Trump and his first attorney general, Jeff Sessions, the former Alabama Republican senator.

Speaker 10 And Sessions was the first Republican senator to endorse Trump's 2016 campaign.

Speaker 10 Trump had him fired, though, for recusing himself from overseeing the Russia investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller.

Speaker 10 There was also a very bad falling out Trump had with Bill Barr after Barr told him the 2020 election wasn't stolen. Pambondi, she's taken a decidedly different approach.

Speaker 1 Openly supporting the president at every turn. But what else do you mean?

Speaker 10 Well, for one, she lavishes praise on President Trump, you know, sometimes in over-the-top ways. I mean, like she did during a cabinet meeting talking about Trump's successes in his first 100 days.

Speaker 11 Your first 100 days has far exceeded that of any other presidency in this country. Ever.
Ever. Never seen anything like it.

Speaker 12 Thank you.

Speaker 10 You know, she's really carried a lot of water for Trump before Congress. She expressed outrage on Trump's behalf when his ethics were questioned.
And it's been more than just words.

Speaker 10 You know, she's been a shield for Trump on the Epstein files. And these steps toward the Obama administration about Russia are being seen by a lot of people as a distraction from that.

Speaker 10 Bondi's really been putting into action Trump's promise of retribution.

Speaker 10 She fired January 6th prosecutors, prosecutors who worked with special counsel Jack Smith, who had brought charges against Trump.

Speaker 10 And she went after a federal judge who was seen as unfriendly toward the administration.

Speaker 10 Doesn't much sound like Bondi's pledge at her confirmation hearing to be an independent attorney general and remove politics from the Justice Department.

Speaker 1 Independent reporting from Domenico Montenaro. Thanks so much.

Speaker 8 Thank you.

Speaker 1 And that's Up First for this Wednesday, August 6th. I'm Steve Inskeep.

Speaker 2 And I'm Layla Faldil. There's a great way to stay connected to podcasts and news from the NPR network, the NPR app.

Speaker 2 Hear podcast suggestions based on what you like and news stories about people in your local community and around the world. Download the NPR up today.

Speaker 1 Today's Up First was edited by Rylan Barton, Roberta Ramsden, Megan Pratz, Janea Williams, and Allie Schweitzer. It was produced by Ziad Vach, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas, who is our director.

Speaker 1 We talk, we need points. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott, and our technical director is Carly Strange.
Join us tomorrow.

Speaker 5 This message comes from Jackson. Let's face it, retirement planning can be confusing.
At Jackson, we're working to make retirement clear for everyone, starting with you.

Speaker 5 Our easy-to-understand resources and user-friendly digital tools help simplify your entire experience. You can have confidence in your retirement with clarity from Jackson.

Speaker 5 Seek the clarity you deserve at jackson.com.

Speaker 5 Jackson is short for Jackson Financial Incorporated, Jackson National Life Insurance Company, Lansing, Michigan, and Jackson National Life Insurance Company of New York, Purchase, New York.

Speaker 12 This message comes from Jerry. Many people are overpaying on car insurance.
Why? Switching providers can be a pain. Jerry helps make the process painless.

Speaker 12 Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year.

Speaker 12 Before you renew your car insurance policy, download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai/slash slash npr

Speaker 13 This message comes from Mint Mobile. Starting at $15 a month, make the switch at mintmobile.com/slash switch.
$45 upfront payment for three months. 5GB plan equivalent to $15 a month.

Speaker 13 Taxes and fees extra. First three months only.

Speaker 12 See terms.