Public Media Cuts, Trump And Fed Chair, Israel Strikes Syria

Speaker 1 Senate Republicans vote to take back funding for foreign aid and public broadcasting. It's a small but important step toward fiscal sanity that we all should be able to agree is long overdue.

Speaker 2 What will be the impact where you live?

Speaker 1 I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is up first from NPR News.

Speaker 1 The president has been threatening to fire Fed chair Jerome Powell before his term ends next year. He contends the interest rate is too high.

Speaker 1 Even if Powell finishes his term, the next Fed chair is expected to be less independent. What does that mean for the economy?

Speaker 2 And Israel launches airstrikes into Syria's capital, Damascus. Israel's military says they acted to defend the minority Druze sect in their clashes with the Syrian military.
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Speaker 2 The Senate approved legislation early this morning that will claw back $9 billion in federal funding for NPR and PBS, their member stations, and foreign aid programs.

Speaker 1 Senate Majority Leader Leader John Thune, Republican of South Dakota, argued that voters elected Republicans to rein in federal spending.

Speaker 1 It's a small but important step toward fiscal sanity that we all should be able to agree is long overdue.

Speaker 1 Days earlier, Republicans approved a tax and spending bill that drastically increases federal borrowing, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Speaker 1 The rescission makes little difference in that overall picture, but does advance some of President Trump's preferences.

Speaker 2 NPR congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh was up all night watching this. She's with us now.

Speaker 2 And I want to mention that we should note that no NPR corporate or news executive had a hand in this report. With that being said, good morning, Deirdre.

Speaker 5 Good morning, Michelle.

Speaker 2 So it is rare for Congress to roll back funding for programs that's already approved and were signed into law. When was the last time this happened?

Speaker 5 It is. You know, Thun noted early this morning it's been more than 30 years since a rescission package passed.

Speaker 5 The final bill the Senate passed included nearly $8 billion in cuts to foreign assistance programs and $1.1 billion in federal money for public broadcasting.

Speaker 5 Assuming it passes the House, this is a win for President Trump and his Doge effort to slash spending. He's threatened to pull endorsements for any Republicans who voted no.
Two did.

Speaker 5 Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, joined all Democrats opposing it.

Speaker 5 Democrats after the vote called it a dark day and said the bill is going to hurt Americans who rely on public broadcasting and hurt the U.S.'s reputation as a global leader.

Speaker 5 They also argued Republicans were ceding Congress's constitutional power of the purse and instead were just taking orders from President Trump.

Speaker 2 So Senate Republicans did take out one of the cuts that the administration requested. Would you just remind us which program was spared?

Speaker 5 Right. They removed a proposed $400 million cut to PEPFAR.
That's a global public health program created by former President George W. Bush to combat HIV and AIDS.

Speaker 5 Lawmakers from both parties say it's successful, saved millions of lives. So leaders and the Trump administration did agree to pull that cut out.

Speaker 5 So the overall package was slimmed down from $9.4 billion to $9 billion.

Speaker 2 So Republicans on Capitol Hill have tried to strip federal funding for public media for decades. Some Republicans, I should say, not all.

Speaker 2 So say more about their strategy and their thinking around this.

Speaker 5 Right. This effort to defund NPR and PBS goes back to the 1990s.
A lot of Republican lawmakers have criticized what they view as ideologically biased news coverage from public media outlets.

Speaker 5 NPR executives, I should say, have pushed back at those claims.

Speaker 5 But once Republicans gained control of Congress and the White House, they had the votes to roll back two years of money Congress already approved just back in March for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Speaker 5 Senator Murkowski tried to restore this funding, and she cited an emergency alert that she got on her phone just hours before the vote from an Alaska public radio station warning about an earthquake, saying that's an an example of what's at stake if stations lose federal money, but her effort failed.

Speaker 2 So, and what's been the reaction to this?

Speaker 5 I mean, NPR's president has released a statement saying three out of four Americans rely on public radio stations, say it can't be replaced, and called on the House to reject the bill.

Speaker 2 And what's next?

Speaker 5 The House is scheduled to vote later today. The clock is ticking.
They have a midnight deadline on Friday to get it to the president for his signature.

Speaker 2 That is NPR's Dierter-Walsh Dieter. Thanks for staying up with us after a very long night.
I appreciate it. it.

Speaker 5 Thanks, Michelle.

Speaker 2 President Trump has been frustrated with the Federal Reserve Chair, Jerome Powell, for months now.

Speaker 1 He's been urging Powell to lower interest rates more rapidly than the Fed has been doing because of concerns about inflation.

Speaker 1 For weeks, the president has been attacking Powell, and now he is musing about firing him ahead of the end of Powell's term, which comes in May of next year.

Speaker 2 P. Our White House correspondent Deepa Shivram is with us now to tell us more about this.
Good morning, Deepa.

Speaker 6 Good morning, Michelle.

Speaker 2 As Steve just said, Trump has made it clear that he's frustrated with Powell, and he's been hinting for a while now that he wants to fire Powell. Has he made a decision?

Speaker 6 Yeah, not quite, but you are right. He has been talking about this for several, several weeks.

Speaker 6 Trump's actually been calling Powell too late as his nickname, as in Powell is too late on lowering the interest rates.

Speaker 6 But the Fed has been cautious on interest rates because it's assessing the impact of Trump's tariffs on inflation. Trump, though, thinks that Powell not lowering the rates is hurting the economy.

Speaker 6 So that's why he wants him gone. And he says he's not.
planning on firing Powell, but Trump also says he hasn't ruled it out.

Speaker 6 And yesterday, Trump told reporters that he spoke with Republican lawmakers about firing Powell, and he says they were supportive of it.

Speaker 6 A senior White House official who was not authorized to discuss that meeting said that Trump told those GOP lawmakers that he would fire Powell soon, though, of course, soon doesn't really provide a specific timeline.

Speaker 2 You know what? From a legal standpoint, is it even possible for Trump to fire Powell?

Speaker 6 Well, Powell has said that Trump firing him would be against the law.

Speaker 6 Trump could fire Powell, but only if there's legitimate cause, like fraud, for example, which is something that Trump actually mentioned yesterday, that it's unlikely he'd fire Powell unless there was an instance of fraud.

Speaker 6 And lately, Trump has been suggesting that these renovations to the Federal Reserve building could be considered fraud because that project costs about $2.5 billion. It's pretty expensive.

Speaker 6 Trump said earlier this week that he didn't think Powell needed a quote palace, though Powell has defended the renovations as necessary and said the reserve is reviewing some of the costs, which have been higher in part because of inflation.

Speaker 2 If Trump does go ahead and fire Powell, could the Supreme Court weigh in?

Speaker 6 It could. So the court ruled in May that Trump could fire heads of independent agencies without cause, which is a huge boost to executive power.

Speaker 6 But the court kind of put the Federal Reserve in a different category than other independent agencies. They called the Reserve a, quote, uniquely structured, quasi-private entity.

Speaker 6 So if Trump does decide to fire Powell, it's not exactly clear how the Supreme Court would weigh in, even though they have been very friendly to Trump so far, right? I talked to Paul Schiff-Berman.

Speaker 6 He's a professor of law at George Washington University, and he said it's possible that the Supreme Court decides whatever cause Trump does provide as grounds for firing Powell, if they say it's good enough, that's possible.

Speaker 6 But however, this goes, Berman thinks the damage is already done to keep the Federal Reserve as an independent entity.

Speaker 7 Even if he doesn't fire Powell now,

Speaker 7 when Powell does step down in the spring and someone else is appointed to replace him, it's very clear that that person will be totally at the service of the president.

Speaker 7 And already the Fed chair will have lost independence.

Speaker 6 And Berman says that could have really negative effects for the economy in the long run because historically, there's always been a buffer between politics and these really critical economic decisions that move global markets.

Speaker 2 Briefly, if Trump says he's thinking about Powell's replacement, has he floated any names?

Speaker 6 Yeah, Kevin Hassett, who's one of the president's economic advisors, and also Scott Bessant, who's the Treasury Secretary.

Speaker 2 That is, and Pierre's Deepa Shivram. Deepa, thank you.

Speaker 6 Thank you. you.

Speaker 1 Some other news now. The United Nations Security Council meets today to discuss the situation in the Middle East.

Speaker 2 Yesterday, Israel hit the Syrian military headquarters with airstrikes, as well as areas close to the presidential palace in Damascus.

Speaker 2 It is a significant escalation against the country's new government that took power at the end of a long civil war. U.S.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said the U.S.

Speaker 2 is, quote, very concerned and is trying to negotiate a solution.

Speaker 1 NPR's Ruth Sherlock has been following this situation. Ruth, good morning.
Good morning. Okay, our colleague Daniel Estrin tried to bring us up to date on this something of a surprise here.

Speaker 1 I get the sense that there was some confused fighting near Israel, but in Syria. What happened?

Speaker 8 That's right. Well, the Syrian military got drawn into what started as a local fight in southern Syria and Sweda between Druze militias and Bedouin tribes there.

Speaker 8 And the clashes there have been intense, as you can hear when we spoke with Hossam Kutrab, an English teacher there.

Speaker 9 Well,

Speaker 9 okay, you hear the bombing. If I want to pass away, I will pass away in my home, in my house, and I will defend to the last breath.

Speaker 8 And Israel intervened on behalf of the Druze minority, bombing Syrian military positions, including those that you mentioned in Damascus.

Speaker 8 Interim President Ahmed Al-Shadr was on Syrian state television television today trying to repair relations with the Druze community in Syria, saying they're an integral part of the country.

Speaker 8 And he accused Israel of sowing division and trying to turn Syria into a theatre of chaos.

Speaker 1 Okay, well if there is this conflict within Syria it seems, why is Israel intervening?

Speaker 8 Well one reason is you know there are Druze in Syria and there are Druze communities in Israel too and they're seen as being a loyal community. Some serve in the military.

Speaker 8 But Steve I want to be clear that this is also really strategic for Israel.

Speaker 8 At the heart of it, Israel doesn't trust Shada's government, which is Islamist, doesn't want Shada's Syrian army to get any closer to the Israeli border.

Speaker 8 An Israeli military official speaking to reporters on condition of anonymity has said that Israel is trying to enforce a demilitarized zone in southern Syria near Israeli-controlled territory.

Speaker 8 And that sounds similar to what it's been doing in Lebanon following clashes with the Hezbollah militia there.

Speaker 1 Well, I want to figure out where the United States fits here, because the United States was trying to bring Israel and Syria's new government closer together. What's the US doing now?

Speaker 8 Well, it puts the US in quite a tough position. You know, there does seem to be some daylight here between the US and Israeli positions on Syria.

Speaker 8 Israel often characterizes Syria's new rulers, as I said, as being kind of Islamists. It thinks of them as barely disguised jihadists.

Speaker 8 Ahmed al-Sharia, the interim president, was in an organization previously linked to al-Qaeda. But now the US administration is working with him while the Israelis remain deeply mistrustful.

Speaker 8 Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, has tried to frame this latest escalation as a quote misunderstanding.

Speaker 8 And yesterday, there was a ceasefire deal announced to end the fighting in southern Syria, and there are reports that the Syrian troops are withdrawing from these parts of Syria as Israel wants.

Speaker 8 But this is clearly very fragile, and you know, this is already the third attempt at a ceasefire in recent days.

Speaker 1 Really complicated and confusing situation, but you made it less so. NPR's Ruth Sherlock, thanks so much.

Speaker 8 Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 And that's Up First for Thursday, July 17th. I'm Michelle Martin.

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Speaker 2 Today's episode of Up First was edited by Jerry Holmes, Dana Farrington, Miguel Masias, Janea Williams, and Mohamed El-Bardisi. It was produced by Ziad Buch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas.

Speaker 2 We get engineering support from David Greenberg, and our technical director is Carly Strange. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.
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Speaker 1 Yep.

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