Ukraine Peace Negotiations, Trump's Ukraine Motivations, Holiday Travel

Speaker 1 A leaked transcript details how President Trump's 28-point peace proposal came about.

Speaker 2 Trump himself dismissed the leak, saying it shows standard negotiating tactics. What does this mean for the latest attempt to end the fighting in Ukraine?

Speaker 1 I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is up first from NPR News.

Speaker 1 The president is sending his aides to Moscow and Kyiv to broker a deal.

Speaker 3 I think we're getting very close to a deal.

Speaker 1 He campaigned on ending the war within 24 hours. He's now thought to care more about reaching a deal than what's in it.
So what is the view from the White House?

Speaker 2 And millions of Americans will take to the skies this week. The FAA says this year's Thanksgiving could be the busiest in more than a decade.
So what can you expect when you head to the airport?

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Speaker 2 A day ago, President Trump's latest Russia-Ukraine peace plan appeared to be making headway, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio praising it and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff planning a visit to Moscow.

Speaker 1 And then we learned something about the process leading to this moment. Bloomberg published a transcript of a phone call between Steve Witkoff and an advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 1 The news service says it listened to a recording and made that transcript. NPR has not independently confirmed it, but lots of people are now talking about it.

Speaker 1 It gives insight into how Witkoff encouraged Russia to manage President Trump and includes a suggestion to develop a peace plan.

Speaker 2 We're going to go now to NPR's Eleanor Bairdsley, who's following all this from Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Good morning, Eleanor.

Speaker 4 Good morning, Michelle.

Speaker 2 So when did this call happen and who was on it?

Speaker 4 Well, it took place in mid-October. It was between envoy Steve Witkoff and Yuri Ushakov, who's an advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 4 And it was right after Trump sanctioned Russia's two biggest oil companies.

Speaker 4 And Witkoff is right off his success in the Middle East and suggests there could be a similar deal between Russia and Ukraine.

Speaker 4 And he encourages Ushakov to get Putin to call Trump, praise his Mideast peace deal, and flatter him. Witkoff also mentions Zelensky is coming to the White House soon.

Speaker 4 He suggests a call with the Russians beforehand. And we know now, Michelle, that that call from Putin the day before Zelensky's arrival ended any hope Ukrainians had of tomahawk missiles.

Speaker 4 And, Michelle, there's a second recording and transcript of Ushakov with fellow Russian Kirill Dmitriev, Putin's economic advisor, talking about that 28-point U.S.-Russian peace plan from last week that was seen as favoring Russia and has now been heavily amended.

Speaker 4 It seems it was a Russian plan after all, pushed by these two men, though we cannot confirm that the Trump administration did not make changes.

Speaker 4 But in the call, economic advisor Dmitriev even says, according to Bloomberg, quote, I don't think they'll take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible.

Speaker 2 As close to it as possible. Okay, so

Speaker 2 how are Ukrainians taking this in?

Speaker 4 Well, I spoke with Ukrainian parliament member and chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Oleksandra Morezhko.

Speaker 4 He actually called for Witkov to be replaced six months ago because what he says is his incompetence and complete lack of knowledge of Ukraine and the origins of the war.

Speaker 4 So he's not surprised about the latest. Let's listen.

Speaker 7 We know that we're dealing with people in the anti-rush of President Trump who take pro-Russian position, unfortunately. And we knew it long before that.

Speaker 7 But we have to deal with the team of President Trump, no matter who they are.

Speaker 2 And what does President Trump have to say about this?

Speaker 4 Well on Air Force One, Trump didn't address concerns that Witkoff may be pro-Russian, but he brushed off concerns about his methods.

Speaker 8 I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiation.

Speaker 8 And I would imagine he's saying the same thing to Ukraine, because each party has to give it to the You know, Trump's reaction shocked Marezko more.

Speaker 4 He believes Trump should remove Witkoff because he says he is discrediting his administration and the U.S. in the eyes of the world.

Speaker 2 So do you have a sense of, I know this is just news just broke, but is there any sense of how these revelations might affect this negotiation? Could it derail things?

Speaker 4 Well, Mareshko says not on the Ukrainian side, but he says Putin will reject any peace plan that lets Ukraine survive as a sovereign state. Here he is again.

Speaker 7 He thinks that he is winning and he cannot stop because any peace might cause domestic problems for him. He believes that he might lose power because of that.

Speaker 4 Now, Putin envoy Dmitriev calls the Bloomberg leaks fake, while another Russian official said they were leaked to, quote, hinder U.S.-Russia relations.

Speaker 2 That is Eleanor Beardsley for NPR in Kyiv. Eleanor, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 You're welcome.

Speaker 2 President Trump is focused on ending the war in Ukraine. He's sending representatives to both Moscow and Kyiv to work out differences in his latest plan.

Speaker 3 I think we're getting very close to a deal. We'll find out.

Speaker 1 The president has not met his deadline of ending the war on the first day, but he keeps trying in different ways.

Speaker 2 NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonias is here to talk about why Trump continues to push even after all these setbacks. Franco, good morning.

Speaker 9 Good morning, Michelle.

Speaker 2 So the original 28-point plan was widely criticized as a wish list by the Russians, as we just said. Now the administration says it's updated.
Where do things stand now?

Speaker 9 Yeah, I mean, the Trump administration really has been furiously negotiating with both sides, you know, bouncing between a Russia-friendly version and now a more Ukraine-friendly run.

Speaker 9 Trump now says that there are only a few remaining points of disagreement.

Speaker 9 And as you noted, he said last night that he's dispatching his special envoy, Steve Witkoff, and maybe even his son-in-law to Moscow to meet with President Putin.

Speaker 9 And then he's sending Army Secretary Dan Driskol to meet with the Ukrainians.

Speaker 2 But, you know, Franklin, we've been here before. Do we have a sense of whether this is really progress?

Speaker 9 Yeah, I mean, talks are happening and ideas are being exchanged. That's something.
I mean, it's more than what was happening a few weeks ago. But are they closer to reaching a deal?

Speaker 9 I mean, not necessarily. I mean, I was talking with Ivo Dalder, who was the ambassador to NATO in the Obama administration.

Speaker 9 And he says, basically, last week you had Russia agreeing to one plan, and now you have Ukraine agreeing to a different plan.

Speaker 10 The problem is Ukraine and Russia don't agree. So you can come up with any plan that the U.S.
and Russia can agree on and any plan that the U.S. and Ukraine can agree on.

Speaker 10 That's not the same as having a plan that Ukraine and Russia can agree on. And that's their problem.

Speaker 2 Last week, President Trump seemed to set this take it or leave it deadline for Thanksgiving, but he did back off that over the weekend. What does that tell you about his motivations?

Speaker 9 Well, I mean, it's another example of how driven Trump is to just get to yes in any way possible. Richard Fontaine served in the George W.

Speaker 9 Bush White House and now runs the Center for New American Security. And he told me that what matters to Ukraine and Russia doesn't so much matter to Trump.

Speaker 10 Trump clearly wants a deal. I don't know that the content of the deal matters all that much to him as long as it stops the fighting.

Speaker 10 That therefore gives a lot of leeway to those negotiating what the terms of that deal are.

Speaker 10 And of course, for Ukraine and for the Russians and for the Europeans and for many people, the terms are all important.

Speaker 9 Terms are very important. And that's why Russia wants more of the eastern Donbass region for strategic and economic benefits.

Speaker 9 And it's also why Ukraine wants clear security guarantees from Western partners like the U.S. to ensure that Russia never invades again.

Speaker 2 You know, people might remember that Trump talks a lot about the conflicts that he says he has ended. He did that yesterday during the Thanksgiving turkey pardons.

Speaker 2 How much of this is about his quest for the Nobel Peace Prize?

Speaker 9 Look, I mean, I think he genuinely cares about the loss of life. It's something he frequently mentions when talking about the war.
But I don't think you can discount his desire for recognition.

Speaker 9 I mean, he talks about the Nobel Peace Prize a lot. His aides talk about it as well.
And Dalder and Fontaine both told me that Trump is likely looking at his legacy.

Speaker 9 And as any president would, I mean, what better way to be seen as the ultimate dealmaker than solving this intractable war?

Speaker 2 That is White House correspondent Franco Ardenez-Franco. Thank you.

Speaker 9 Thank you, Michelle.

Speaker 1 Americans are going to be on the move for the Thanksgiving holiday, and that includes millions who will fly to visit family and friends.

Speaker 2 Federal regulators say the U.S. aviation system is back to normal after the government shutdown.

Speaker 2 Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is urging travelers to be on their best behavior as they head to the airport.

Speaker 11 It's my responsibility to behave well. I can't offload that to anybody else.
It's me and how am I going to behave? How am I going to have my kids behave as we travel together? How I dress.

Speaker 11 I'm not trying to put a blame on anybody. I'm just asking us all to be better and do better.

Speaker 1 These remarks prompted a lot of reactions, so we've called NPR Transportation Correspondent Joel Rose. Joel, good morning.
Hi, Steve. Are you dressed well for this interview?

Speaker 12 This is radio, Steve. I don't have to answer.

Speaker 1 Okay, fine, fine. We'll just assume.
We'll imagine. What is the Transportation Secretary asking here?

Speaker 12 Yeah, this is what the Department of Transportation is calling a civility campaign, which it has dubbed, quote, the golden age of travel starts with you.

Speaker 12 Secretary Duffy is encouraging travelers to treat airport and airline staff with respect, to dress better, as you noted, and to show more courtesy to other passengers as well.

Speaker 12 The timing on this is a little bit puzzling. There was a big uptick in episodes of unruly passengers during the COVID pandemic, but those numbers have come down a lot since then.

Speaker 12 And the administration's critics note that this campaign is putting a lot of pressure on passengers while seemingly letting airlines off the hook for their part in making flying less civil.

Speaker 12 And some critics have noted the Trump administration is simultaneously rolling back rules about how airlines have to treat passengers.

Speaker 1 Well, if I'm heading to the airport, what should I expect today?

Speaker 12 I would look for big crowds. The Federal Aviation Administration says this could be the busiest Thanksgiving in 15 years, with a peak of more than 52,000 scheduled flights yesterday alone.

Speaker 12 AAA says about 6 million people are expected to fly in the week before and after the holiday, though AAA also cautions that number could wind up slightly lower if some air travelers made other plans because of the flight disruptions that happened during the government shutdown.

Speaker 12 There are indications that advanced bookings this year are down a bit compared to last year, off by about 4%,

Speaker 12 according to data from the aviation analytics company Sirium, which suggests that maybe demand is not quite where the airlines expected it would be coming out of the shutdown.

Speaker 12 But, you know, in any case, you should expect the airports to be very busy.

Speaker 1 Is the system ready?

Speaker 12 The FAA says yes. I mean, the agency says air traffic controller staffing is back to normal levels.
Those controllers, of course, were required to work without pay during the shutdown.

Speaker 12 Some took on second jobs and many called out sick.

Speaker 12 That led to staffing shortages at many facilities, and it eventually pushed the FAA to order flight reductions at dozens of major airports, though those limits are now lifted.

Speaker 1 How can we measure the morale of air traffic controllers after they went so many weeks without being paid?

Speaker 12 It's an interesting question.

Speaker 12 The Department of Transportation has said it will give $10,000 bonuses to air traffic controllers who did not miss a single shift during the 43-day shutdown, a proposal originally suggested by President Trump.

Speaker 12 But only a small fraction of working air traffic controllers will qualify. Just 311 controllers out of more than 10,000 will get the cash bonuses, according to the controllers union.

Speaker 12 And that's causing some resentment among those who did not qualify. Some have called the bonuses unfair and even a betrayal of those who did a lot of hard work during the shutdown.

Speaker 1 NPS Joel Rose, who will be among the millions flying today. Joel, where are you headed?

Speaker 12 New Orleans, Louisiana.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Sounds great.
Enjoy. Take it easy.

Speaker 12 You too.

Speaker 2 And that's Up First for Wednesday, November 26th. I'm Michelle Martin.

Speaker 1 And I'm Stephen Skeep. Thanks for joining us this morning.

Speaker 1 Your NPR station makes Up First possible each day, and you can support their work and ours beginning by going to donate.npr.org slash Up First.

Speaker 2 Today's episode of Up First was edited by Kate Bartlett, Rebecca Metzler, Russell Lewis, H.J. Mai, and Alice Wolfley.
It was produced by Ziad Budge, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas.

Speaker 2 We get engineering support from Van Genhoeven, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our supervising producer is Michael Lipkin.
We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can listen while you're doing your early round of cooking.

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