Mission South Africa

This is an iHeart podcast.

On Fox One, you can stream your favorite news, sports, and entertainment live, all in one app.

It's fing roll and unfiltered.

This is the best thing ever.

Watch breaking news as it breaks.

Breaking tonight, we're following two major stories.

And catch history in the making.

Gibby, meet Freddy.

Debates,

drama, touchdowns.

It's all here, baby.

Fox One.

We live for live, streaming now.

With Chewy, get the food your pet loves delivered with AutoShip and never run out.

Save 35% off your first AutoShip order and get an extra side of savings every order after that.

Cancel whenever.

For low prices, for life with pets, there's Chewy.

What does Zinn give you?

Not just smoke-free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom.

Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards.

With Zin Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech, outdoor gear, and gift cards to your favorite retailers.

Find your Zin and keep finding rewards that fit your lifestyle.

At zin.com slash rewards.

Warning, this product contains nicotine.

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Not all group chats are the same.

Just like not all atoms are the same.

Adam Brody, for instance, uses WhatsApp to pin messages, send events, and settle debates using polls with his friends, all in one group chat.

Makes our guys' night easier.

But Adam Scott group messages with an app that isn't WhatsApp, which means he still can't find that text from his friends about where to meet.

Hang on, still scrolling.

No, the address is here somewhere.

It's time for WhatsApp.

Message privately with everyone.

Cool Zone Media.

In February of 2025, the President of the United States announced, first by social media and then by executive order, that a white nationalist conspiracy theory is now official foreign policy.

No longer relegated to racist message boards and poorly attended rallies, the idea that white South Africans are being violently persecuted is now center stage.

In the months since, The administration has doubled down on this stance.

Foreign aid to South Africa has been suspended.

Their ambassador has been expelled.

And now, State Department officials have begun interviewing white South Africans who have applied for refugee resettlement in the United States.

Apartheid ended in South Africa 31 years ago.

But it turns out some of the same people who fought tooth and nail to keep it back then

are still around.

And they haven't stopped fighting.

I'm Molly Conger,

and this is Weird Little Guys.

You know, I don't like current events.

I really prefer to root around in the past and piece together the odds and ends of the life and crimes of someone who's done hurting other people.

I had a great time writing five episodes about Dennis Mahon, a man whose career as a white supremacist activist spanned decades.

But when it came time to write a follow-up episode, I hated to have to tell you that Even though Dennis will almost certainly die before he finishes prison sentence, the one he got for sending a bomb to the diversity office in Scottsdale, Arizona,

the current political climate finished what he started.

Republican politicians did what he couldn't do with that bomb, and they closed that office.

And we find ourselves in something of a similar position now.

These last few episodes have been a wild, sprawling narrative about white supremacist terrorism in South Africa in the final years of apartheid.

And I've learned a lot of history that I'd never been exposed to before, and I've really enjoyed digging my way out of some of these unexpected rabbit holes.

But it would be irresponsible of me to tell you such a long story and then leave you thinking that it was over,

that it ended in 1994.

That when apartheid ended, the international networks of right-wing extremists who'd done unspeakable things in its defense just faded away.

Because they didn't.

And they don't always need guns and bombs to get what they want.

So we'll end this mini-series where we started it.

The White House.

Back in February, when I started down this path, I had just read the executive order, the one titled, Addressing the Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa.

And the week that order was signed, Trump had offered some insight into what was going on in his head in this post on Truth Social.

Also, I will be cutting off all future funding to South Africa until a full investigation of this situation has been completed.

And that episode back in February goes into more detail about what he's getting at here.

South African President Cyril Ramaposa had recently signed the Expropriation Act into law.

There's a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering built around a very tiny kernel of truth in there.

As a quick refresher, the Expropriation Act does allow the government of South Africa to expropriate land.

That part's true.

But only under certain specific conditions, and it is fundamentally not really that different from what we call eminent domain here in the United States.

And that's a power that was given to our government by the Fifth Amendment.

There's no racial component to it.

Nobody's terrorizing white farmers.

There's no language at all in the Expropriation Act about race.

I spent probably too long trying to look for clues that would help me guess why he made that post on Truth Social on February 2nd.

Sometimes you can see a really clear, direct line between something the president says or does or posts online.

and the Fox News segment that he had just been watching.

And that episode from back in February makes what I think is a pretty good case for how Trump's ideas about what's going on in South Africa were formed back when he posted about it for the first time in 2018.

And back in 2018, he tweeted about South African land reform for the first time

about 45 minutes after he heard about it on an episode of Tucker Carlson.

But on February 2nd, 2025, he made that truth social post while he was sitting on Air Force One, en route to DC after a weekend golfing in Florida.

His public schedule for that day doesn't give us much,

but he did post several times that evening about Fox News host Mark Levin.

And he posted an old clip from Levin's show, and he reposted one of Mark's old posts, and he posted, in all caps, watch Mark Levin tonight on Fox News 8 p.m.

Eastern Great Show.

And Levin's show that evening doesn't seem to have touched on the issue issue of South Africa.

So honestly, I couldn't tell you how the idea got into his head that night after a long day on the golf course.

He posted it around 6.19 p.m.

And then 40 minutes later, as he's sitting on the tarmac after the plane landed, he reposted it.

And as he's leaving for the White House, a reporter asked him about the post.

So on True Social, you said that you were going to cut aid from South Africa.

Well, you plan to cut aid across other African nations and why South Africa?

It's only South Africa.

Terrible things are happening in South Africa.

The leadership is

doing some terrible things, horrible things.

So that's under investigation right now.

We'll make a determination.

And until such time as we find out what South Africa is doing, they're taking away land, they're confiscating land, and actually they're doing things that are perhaps far worse than that.

The far worse than that at the end of his remarks is almost certainly a reference to his belief in the white genocide conspiracy theory, that false narrative that white farmers in South Africa are being murdered in enormous numbers.

And later that same week, in February of 2025, Donald Trump signed the executive order cutting off aid to South Africa.

And it also directed DHS and the State Department to, quote, promote the resettlement of Afrikaner refugees escaping government-sponsored race-based discrimination, including racially discriminatory property confiscation.

And so, in conjunction with his other executive orders, ones that suspended all other refugee resettlement operations, This now puts white South Africans in a class all of their own.

They're the only people on earth who are so persecuted, who are suffering so terribly, that they are deserving of assistance from the United States.

And the executive order ignited a flurry of activity on the right, both in the United States and in South Africa.

Far-right talking heads rushed to book South African guests, and one man in particular was very happy to oblige.

In the last two months, Ernst Rutz has made the rounds.

He's been interviewed by Ben Shapiro, Matt Gates, Tucker Carlson, Jack Bisobic, and Jordan Peterson.

He's been on YouTube lives and shows that only exist on Twitter somehow.

He made an appearance on a show hosted by Ronaldo Krause,

a South African YouTuber whose political career was stopped dead in its tracks last summer, just days after he was elected to parliament.

His own party stripped him of membership after a video serviced of him calling for the murder of all black people.

And he used both the American racial slur that you're probably familiar with and a South African equivalent.

And Rutz also gave an interminably long interview to a benign-sounding website called the White Papers Policy Institute.

But as it turns out, the woman interviewing him has a long history of affiliation with neo-Nazi groups.

And Ernst Rutz may sound familiar to you.

In 2018, he visited the United States in his capacity as the deputy CEO of the Afrikaner nationalist group Afriforum.

He met with federal government officials and right-wing think tanks.

Notably, he spent a day at the Heritage Foundation.

He took meetings with staffers for Ted Cruz.

And during that visit, he appeared on an episode of the Tucker Carlson Show, back when it was actually on TV,

back when it was appointment television for the president.

And you might think that Ernst Rutz would have nothing but praise for Trump's executive order, right?

He's finally getting this message out.

Someone in power is finally talking about this epidemic of white farmers being murdered in South Africa.

And he is, he's grateful for that, sure.

But he doesn't think Trump's proposed solution is the right one.

Here's what he said when he sat down with Tucker Carlson at the end of February.

And one part of it says that they will grant refugee status to Afrikaners if they want to go to the U.S.

which I don't think, in all fairness, we're really grateful for

the public stance taken by the U.S.

And in a certain sense, they haven't gone far enough.

But in a certain sense, I don't think the granting of refugee status is much of a solution.

Some people will take that up, but that's why I told you the story of the Battle of Blood River and the vow.

We are culturally very, very attached to South Africa.

And here he is telling Jordan Peterson the same thing a few weeks later.

That's why I'm so grateful that we spoke about the history part at first is

Our concern is that if we just leave the country, our culture dissolves and our communal identity dissolves and we become Americans or whatever.

Well, plus the entire country descends into like lawlessness, chaos, and everyone dies.

Yep.

Right, because if all the white South African farmers leave, that's 100% what will happen.

Ernst Rutz is a nationalist.

He doesn't want to leave South Africa.

He isn't being persecuted for his whiteness.

He just misses the days when white minority rule meant the persecution of everyone else.

And in both of those interviews, Rutz spoke at some length about the importance of the Day of the Vow,

about the covenant between God and the Afrikaner granting them that land.

They can't leave.

Men like Ernst Rutz are still standing on the banks of the Blood River, waiting for God to sweep all the Africans out of their way.

And ahead of that whirlwind press junket in February and March, Ernst Rutz actually resigned from his position as head of the Afrikaner Foundation.

And that was an initiative under the umbrella of the Afrikaner interest group, the Solidarity Movement.

And Rutz says that he hadn't officially worked for Afriforum since 2023.

But Afriforum and the Afrikaner Foundation are both just part of the Solidarity Movement.

These are just facets of the same organization.

And so now in February of 2025, he no longer works for any of these organizations.

He no longer works for Solidarity at all.

Because it was Rutz who got the organization into some pretty hot water.

Well, they're saying that we've, the organizations that I was involved with at the time have committed treason.

We've been charged for treason.

You've been charged with treason?

Yeah.

For what?

For speaking...

Well, among others, for me speaking with you about what's happening.

That's treason?

Yeah, because it's bad-mouthing your country.

I mean, we've all made mistakes at work.

But I can't imagine making such a mess of things that somebody gets charged with treason.

And he's watering that down a little bit, right?

The accusation isn't just that he's...

bad mouthing the country.

I'm sure it's legal in South Africa to say negative things about the nation.

But almost immediately after Trump announced that he was cutting off aid to South Africa, a lot of South Africans blamed Afroforum.

Members of Mkanto Asizwe rallied outside of the police station in Cape Town and announced that they were filing a criminal complaint against Afroforum,

accusing them of treason.

And just a quick note for those who aren't up to date on their South African current events, I wasn't.

Mkanto Asizwe is now its own political party.

It does share a name with the group that functioned as the paramilitary arm of the African National Congress during the last decades of apartheid, but as of a few years ago, it is a political party.

So, just for clarity.

The MK party vehemently condemns the treasonous actions of Afri Forum, which has deliberately lobbied foreign powers to act against the sovereignty and economic interests of South Africa.

Their betrayal is nothing less than an act of economic sabotage, a direct assault on our nation's independence.

For many South Africans, it was obvious.

Trump didn't come up with this idea on his own.

There is a straight line between Afroforum's trips to the United States, their appearances in American right-wing media, their collaboration with American think think tanks, their English language propaganda videos targeting American audiences on American platforms, and the end result, which was this shift in U.S.

foreign policy.

Even President Ramaposa has gone on record blaming Afroform and Solidarity for spreading the lies about South Africa that led to Trump's executive order.

He called the group unpatriotic in remarks before the National Assembly in March.

In fact, whether that is treasonous or not is a matter that obviously our law enforcement agencies need to look at.

The National Prosecuting Agency needs to look at that.

But I take a dim view, in fact, a very negative view of

what has ensued as they run around the world badmouthing their own country and putting their country into disrepute, not by things that are happening, but by misinformation.

The matter has been confirmed to be under investigation, but there has been no decision announced by the National Prosecuting Authority as to whether the case will proceed.

When Ramaposa gave those remarks on March 11th, 2025, He wasn't just talking about Ernst Rutz going on Tucker Carlson.

Rutz had, in fact, already resigned from Solidarity by the time he returned to the U.S.

this year.

But in late February, a delegation from Solidarity paid a visit to the United States.

They posted quite a few videos of themselves outside various government buildings in Washington, D.C.

They posted some videos of them standing in lobbies of government buildings and one photo that appears to show the delegation touring the White House.

with visible visitors badges.

There are no photos of any members of the delegation that I could find that show them with any actual US policymakers, but they did take a couple of selfies in front of a sign that says, Committee on Foreign Affairs.

One photo was taken outside the office of Senator Christopher Koons,

a member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and its Africa and Global Health Policy Subcommittee.

Their press releases about this visit don't name names, but they claim to have met with senior officials within the Trump administration during their visit.

There's no direct claim made that they met with the president himself, although one of them did post a cartoon-style drawing of the group that features a cartoon Trump standing with them in front of the White House, and that is perhaps meant to insinuate that they were able to secure an audience with the president.

But one member of the delegation posted something that is more interesting to me than a selfie at the Capitol building.

On February 27th, Jako Kleinhans wrote,

Day three in Washington, D.C.

Who influences U.S.

government policy?

A complex network of individuals, organizations, and governmental and non-governmental structures work daily to develop U.S.

government policy.

Recent policy decisions on the relationship with South Africa have been developed by a few key players at influential organizations, together with policy specialists in the White House and Congress.

The Solidarity Movement delegation currently visiting the USA met on day three with several of these influential people, with whom we have forged good relationships over the past few years, to discuss a way forward.

And underneath this wall of text, posted in Afrikaans, is a selfie.

Visible in the photo behind Yako is the entrance to the offices of the Heritage Foundation.

That conservative think tank has not, as far as I can tell, publicly commented on the recently surfaced allegations that they worked closely with South African military intelligence to craft propaganda campaigns during the latter years of apartheid.

South African news outlet The Daily Maverick did take extra care to note in their article that the Heritage Foundation has made no legal challenge to the 2021 book by a former South African policeman.

who claims that former Heritage Foundation president Edwin Fulner was often consulted for advice by South African intelligence operatives who ran the government's apartheid disinformation campaigns?

And if you can remember, all the way back to the first episode in this series, the first time Trump tweeted about South Africa, he was watching Tucker Carlson interview a policy analyst from the Heritage Foundation.

Just something to mull over, I guess.

Time for a sofa upgrade?

Visit washable sofas.com and discover Anibay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at $699.

Anibay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly.

Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out.

Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy.

Liquid simply slides right off.

Designed for custom comfort, our high-resilience foam lets you choose between a sink-in feel or a supportive memory foam blend.

Plus, our pet-friendly stain-resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years.

Don't compromise quality for price.

Visit washablefas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee.

Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns.

Shop now at washable sofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain certain restrictions may apply.

The Mercedes-Benz Dream Days are back with offers on vehicles like the 2025 E-Class, CLE Coupe, C-Class, and EQE sedan.

Hurry in now through July 31st.

Visit your local authorized dealer or learn more at mbusa.com slash dream.

At Larsen, we've perfected storm doors, like the Larsen 60 Maximum View Wisher Latch.

It's a guardian, keeping your little escape artists securely inside.

The Defender, protecting against what you don't want with the most secure, first-ever magnetic latching technology.

When you hear, you know your 60 maximum view is secure with Surelatch.

Larson, it's not just a storm door.

Find us in aisle or learn more at larsondoors.com/slash Surelatch.

Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be heard!

Winner, best score!

We demand to be seen!

Winner, best book!

We demand to be quality!

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

And whoever it was that the delegation was able to meet with at the White House, that person received an official memorandum from Solidarity, and they also posted that document to their website.

Much like Ernst Rutz, they're grateful to the Trump administration for raising awareness about the plight of the white South African.

But they, too, want the United States to use its power to pressure South Africa to bend to the will of whites, rather than simply offering those aggrieved white South Africans the opportunity to settle in the United States.

Much of the text of this memorandum reads pretty transparently as an attempt to smooth over the whole treason situation.

They emphasize repeatedly that they do not support Trump's decision to cut off humanitarian aid, and they urge Washington not to suspend the African Growth and Opportunity Act, a U.S.

law that allows some African nations, including South Africa, tariff-free access to U.S.

markets.

And as much as they appreciate Trump's offer to take Afrikaners as refugees, they want to stay.

One section of the memo reads, although individuals may qualify for a resettlement program, the majority of Afrikaners will still remain in South Africa.

During the past 30 years, Afrikaners have begun to establish cultural infrastructure in South Africa so that we can still live here freely and safely in order for us to make a sustainable contribution toward the country and all its people.

This is being done under the banner of the Solidarity Movement, with Solidarity and Afroforum being the largest organizations.

Security structures, social structures, job structures, training structures, and cultural structures have been established.

All of this is being done without state support.

And at the bottom of that section, they make several recommendations.

They recommend the United States should,

instead of offering refugee resettlement, offer direct aid to these Afrikaner communities, quote, to assist with community infrastructure protecting Afrikaners.

This includes security structures, social structures, job structures, training structures, and infrastructure to settle Afrikaners in vulnerable places in a concentrated manner.

So they're saying they want help

moving all of the white people to a place in South Africa still.

They don't want to leave South Africa, but they need help moving all of the white people into a concentrated place.

So a place that's all white.

And that sounds kind of like a mini-ethno state, a Volkstadt, if you will, an island of apartheid and a sea of integration.

And that does, in fact, already exist.

And here's where I have to confess something to you.

I overlooked something in retrospect pretty obvious.

Remember I said a few minutes ago that Ernst Rutz had resigned from his position with Solidarity and his trip to the United States in March of 2025 was totally separate from this delegation.

Well, it might not have actually been that separate.

I mean, they flew here separately.

They were here during different weeks and they claimed to be from separate organizations.

Rutz was here in the United States with Just Stridem, the current CEO of Orania,

a white separatist community in South Africa's northern Cape province.

Jako Kleinhans, the international liaison for solidarity, who was here with that other delegation,

he used to be the CEO of Irania.

He and his family live there.

His wife, Magdalene, was featured in a Guardian article about the the community in 2019.

She runs the call center in Irania that recruits members and solicits donations.

So they're the same people.

The Venn diagram is a circle.

They present slightly different public faces.

I mean, Solidarity was allowed into the White House.

while the delegation officially from Irania was stuck doing events like Wine Wednesday at the New York Young Republicans Club.

But it's sort of like how sometimes the name brand ketchup and the store brand ketchup are made at the same factory and they just package them in different bottles.

The two groups traveled the United States separately, a few weeks apart.

They met with slightly different crowds and marketed the message ever so slightly differently.

But ultimately, what they want is for the United States to officially recognize their 3.5 square mile whites only town of 3,000 people as an autonomous state.

And in February, while that first delegation, the one from Solidarity, was in Washington, D.C.,

an American neo-Nazi group posted photos of their trip to South Africa.

A regional chapter within the Active Club network visited Irania, quote, to gain a deeper understanding of how whites can form intentional communities.

During the first week of March, the delegation from Solidarity finished out their trip in the United States with a visit to California.

Specifically, they went to Los Angeles.

More specifically, they had lunch with Joel Pollock, the editor-at-large of the far-right rag Breitbart.

After lunch, Pollock tweeted a photo captioned, just had lunch at a kosher restaurant owned by Steven Spielberg's mom with four gentlemen from AfroForum slash Solidarity.

The South African government is investigating them for treason, for the crime of sharing their views with Americans.

The treason was delicious.

Okay, Joel, not to nitpick.

I mean, first of all, super cringe, but Steven Spielberg's mom is dead.

Leah Adler, Spielberg's mother, did open the restaurant, the Milky Way, in Los Angeles in 1977, but the restaurant closed after her death in 2017.

Her children reopened the restaurant in 2019, so it is still the same restaurant in the same place, but it isn't owned by a woman who's been dead for eight years.

But it's probably much more important that you know one other fact about this lunch.

At the time, in the first week of March of 2025,

Joel Pollock was widely believed to be Trump's pick for ambassador to South Africa.

There'd been no official public nomination, but Pollock was out there telling people that and going on the news in South Africa to that effect.

And after lunch, Jako Kleinhans from Solidarity reposted that picture and offered his full-throated endorsement of Pollock's appointment as ambassador.

But barely two weeks after that lunch, Joel Pollock's chances of getting that job dropped to near zero.

Things were already a little dicey for him, considering he'd been publicly calling for sanctions against President Cyril Ramaposa personally, specifically because of South Africa's continued opposition to the genocide in Gaza.

But the nail in the coffin really seems to have been his direct personal involvement in the expulsion of South Africa's ambassador to the United States.

On March 14th, 2025, the United States of America expelled a foreign diplomat.

This sort of thing happens from time to time.

Article 9 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations establishes establishes a pretty broad authority for this.

Quote, the receiving state may at any time and without having to explain its decision notify the sending state that the head of the mission or any member of the diplomatic staff of the mission is persona non grata.

It wasn't uncommon during the Cold War, usually after allegations of espionage, whether real or imagined.

And it can be a way for a country to send a political message, to say to a country, we're kind of upset with you right now, even if the diplomatic staff themselves haven't done anything wrong.

Several countries expelled Syrian diplomats in 2012 in response to the murder of civilians in Haula.

In 2021, President Erdogan declared diplomats from 10 countries, persona non grata in Turkey, after those countries' governments had called for the release of an imprisoned Turkish activist.

Several Israeli diplomats were expelled from Britain and Australia in 2010, after both countries discovered that Israel had used forged British and Australian passports to carry out assassinations in Dubai.

In 2011, the U.S.

ambassador to Ecuador was expelled after Wikileaks revealed that she believed President Correa had been aware of corruption within his police force.

And the United States responded by expelling Ecuador's ambassador in return.

And sometimes it's not even political.

The decision may be the result of personal misconduct by a member of the diplomatic staff.

With some rather specific exceptions, ambassadors and their staff have diplomatic immunity.

They can't be prosecuted, but they can be expelled.

So, for example, in 2017, New Zealand had to expel an American diplomat after the man got into some kind of violent physical altercation and the American government refused to waive his diplomatic immunity so that he could be prosecuted.

In 2012, the Philippines expelled a Panamanian diplomat accused of rape.

Honestly, a lot of the examples of this that I found were related to lower-level embassy staff who got drunk, got a DUI, got into fights, or committed some kind of sex crime.

There have also been more than a few cases of diplomats accused of using their position to facilitate drug trafficking.

So it does happen.

It doesn't even seem particularly particularly rare, especially if you're including these examples of lower level embassy staff who maybe got in a bar fight.

But it doesn't usually happen by tweet.

Let's work backwards.

At 4.42 p.m.

Eastern Time on March 14th, 2025, Secretary of State Marco Rubio tweeted,

South Africa's ambassador to the United States is no longer welcome in our great country.

Ibrahim Rasul is a race-baiting politician who hates America and hates POTUS.

We have nothing to discuss with him, and so he is considered persona non-grata.

That last bit is in all caps, which is why I had to yell it.

And for the record, on that read, I did pronounce Ibrahim Rasul's name Ibrahim Rasul, which is his name.

But in this, I guess, official State Department tweet, Marco Rubio did misspell his name as Emrahim Rasul.

So, take that as you will.

But Rubio's tweet included a link to a Breitbart article, the headline of which is, South African Ambassador Ibrahim Rasul, colon, Trump is leading global white supremacist movement.

The article, written by Joel Pollack,

had gone up earlier that same day.

Article might not be the right word for it.

I don't know what you call what appears on Breitbart's website.

But Pollock only actually wrote six sentences in the original piece.

But those sentences frame the actual content.

It's a video clip, accompanied by a transcript of the video, of statements made by South African Ambassador Ibrahim Rasool during a webinar hosted by the Mapungubwe Institute for Strategic Reflection, a South African think tank just called Mistra for short.

What Donald Trump is launching is an assault on incumbency, those who are in power,

by mobilizing a supremacism against the incumbency at home.

And I think I've illustrated abroad as well.

He was speaking to a small group of academics, and Rasul is talking about the ways in which American politics have changed.

He later explained to a reporter, my remarks were speaking to South African intelligentsia, intellectuals, political leaders, and others to alert them to a changed tradition in the United States that the old way of doing business with the U.S.

was not going to work.

Now, I watched most of that webinar.

I'm not not going to lie to you, it's two hours long.

I didn't watch all of it.

I watched most of that webinar.

But I watched all of the parts where Ibrahim Razul is speaking.

And nothing he said felt shocking to me.

He wasn't being hysterical or hyperbolic.

He's not tearing his hair and gnashing his teeth.

He had some interesting observations about the way the white South African functions as a rhetorical dog whistle for white victimhood within Trump's narrative, but he didn't say anything wild.

He's not calling for violence or talking about radical shifts in policy.

He's a diplomat, right?

He was just making correct observations about the political climate that it is his job to navigate.

But those remarks, with Joel Pollack's six sentences of commentary, made their way to Marco Rubio within hours.

And by that afternoon, Rubio had declared Rasul persona non grada and ordered him to leave the United States.

When Rasul arrived home in South Africa on March 23rd, he issued a statement.

He's standing by what he said about the Trump administration.

And his four-page statement has some real bangers.

It goes pretty hard as far as diplomatic statements go.

Quote, when we have been the victims of apartheid and saw how it cannot tolerate free speech, an independent judiciary, or even peaceful dissent, then we can smell the birth of chauvinism globally, sense the fear it engenders, hear its words, and see its signs.

And Razul says that, quote, in meetings with senators and congress members and in the weekly forums we addressed of think tanks and business associations and in the few meetings with the administration, we were forced to discuss seriously how Afrikaners could be refugees in the USA, while ANC leaders are threatened with personal sanctions.

We had to avoid arguing how there was a genocide in Israel.

But diplomacy is not the art of lying.

It is the art of telling the truth gently and constructively.

Pollock seized on one line of that statement in particular, a parenthetical mention of an anonymous participant in the webinar, who Razul calls one ex-South African anti-intellectual hatchet man hiding under a pseudonym.

And that's obviously a reference to Joel Pollack.

Rasul is implying that Pollock himself not only joined that webinar live, but participated in it without disclosing his name or affiliation.

And in this case, his affiliation would be editor of American conservative website Breitbart.com and also current contender for American ambassador to South Africa.

Because during the Q ⁇ A portion, the moderator read submitted questions out loud.

And when he did so, he read the question asker's name.

And when the question was from a reporter, the name of the outlet.

The very first question, though, was from Anonymous.

First, because I'd like to start with something funny,

an anonymous comment for Ambassador Rasool.

Ambassador Rasool's analysis of the U.S.

may be correct.

However, he's doing South Africa no service by speaking this way.

His job is to represent South African interests in Washington, not to be a left-wing militant, Ambassador Rasool.

Now,

can I tell you for sure that that question was submitted by Joel Pollock?

Of course not.

But that appears to be what Ibrahim Rasul is implying in his statement, that he believes that.

Pollock tweeted a screenshot of that portion of the statement and said, ex-ambassador Ibrahim Rasul believes he was done in by a spy.

Good luck hunting.

I watched his remarks on YouTube after they had been publicly available at Mistra's channel for hours.

Is incompetence a defense to defamation in South African law?

So Pollock is in this tweet insinuating that he could sue Ibrahim Rasul for defamation for implying that Pollock was in the webinar.

I don't know anything about South African law, but I don't think in an American court a claim of defamation would hold up because he didn't actually say Joel Pollock's name.

I guess if Joel Pollack identifies publicly as an anti-intellectual hatchet man,

he's welcome to make that argument in court, but I digress.

Because back to his actual claim.

He's saying he wasn't in the webinar live, he watched the replay on YouTube hours after the event ended.

And the problem with that is that it isn't true.

The webinar was live.

You could pre-register and participate in the Zoom meeting, or you could just watch it live on YouTube.

And the event was from 10 a.m.

to noon Johannesburg time.

And that means that it started at 4 a.m.

here on the East Coast and 1 a.m.

in California, which is where Joel Pollack lives.

And I'm reasonably certain he was indeed in California that day because the night before he posted a photo of the sunset and that morning he posted a photo of the sunrise.

And both photos were posted at the time that the sun rose and set in the part of California where he lives.

And there are visible palm trees.

So when Joel Pollack tweeted the link to his article at 8.45 a.m.

Eastern Time, that's 5.45 a.m.

where he lives.

And the source code for the webpage shows that the article went live at 8.35 a.m.

Eastern.

Again, that's 5.35 a.m.

Pacific.

And that's two and a half hours after the event ended.

Those six sentences didn't take two hours to write, but he would have had to download the entire video, cut the sections he wanted to post, transcribe those sections, and get everything onto the website.

The other problem, though, is not how long it would have taken to cut the clips.

It's that he could not have watched a two-hour video and then written the article if he didn't start watching the video until, quote, hours after the event ended and the final video was available for playback online.

An op-ed written by the director of the think tank that hosted the event takes aim at Pollock, arguing that it was no accident that his article made its way to the White House so quickly.

Quote: Rasul has been articulating these views in other interactions with U.S.

audiences.

The difference in this case is that Joel Pollack at Breitbart News, himself campaigning to be U.S.

ambassador in South Africa, selectively quoted from Rasul's presentation deliberately to incite the U.S.

administration.

But Joel Pollock got what he wanted.

Kind of.

He got Ibrahim Rasul expelled from the United States.

Got him fired.

Ibrahim Rasul isn't the ambassador to the United States anymore.

It's a bit of a monkey's paw situation for Joel Pollock, though.

The whole affair ended up ruining his own ambitions of becoming an ambassador.

Within days of all this going down, Julius Malema's Economic Freedom Fighters Party vowed that they would block Pollock from entering South Africa at all if he was appointed ambassador.

And they said that they could ensure President Ramaposo wouldn't accept the appointment.

A presidential spokesman was a little more diplomatic about this, but they did go on the record that the president was concerned.

about the possibility of Pollock being appointed ambassador because quote, he is engaged in a very divisive and very damaging manner towards South Africa and South Africa-related issues.

By March 26, just 12 days after Pollock's post cost Ambassador Rasool his job, it was clear that he'd cost himself the ambassador job too.

Trump boasted on Truth Social that he would be nominating Brent Bozell as the United States ambassador to South Africa.

Some days, keeping up with your health feels difficult.

Between your family, your job, your to-do list, there's just not enough time.

That's why CVS Health offers more ways to get care.

Need help at 2 a.m.?

They've got 24-7 virtual care.

Struggle with a life challenge?

They offer mental health services too.

And with the CVS Health app, you can track prescriptions, book clinical visits, even get meds delivered, making it simpler to stay on top of your health.

They're your trusted pharmacy and so much more.

Learn more at cvshealth.com/slash more.

Let's be real.

Life happens.

Kids spill, pets shed, and accidents are inevitable.

Find a sofa that can keep up at washable sofas.com.

Starting at just $699,

our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out.

So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry-free living.

Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics.

They're kid-proof, pet-friendly, and built for everyday life.

Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want.

Neat flexibility?

Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment.

Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers.

It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa.

Visit washablefas.com today and save.

That's washable sofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Hey, it's Brian Christopher.

Ready to show the summer?

You're in luck.

I'm hanging out at Chumpa Casino and you're in for a treat.

Chillax with hundreds of games, daily bonuses, exciting spins, and epic prizes.

It's all here, always free to play.

Kick back, have fun, and head to chumpa casino.com.

Let's make this summer legendary.

Sponsored by Chumpa Casino, no purchase necessary, VGW Group, void where prohibited by law.

TTNC's 21

The Man in the Arena by LifeVac is a new podcast from the founder and CEO of LifeVac, Arthur Lee.

Shines a light on real people saving lives, standing up, and stepping in when it matters most.

From everyday heroes to the moments that define us, this is what resilience, faith, and purpose sound like.

Listen today to The Man in the Arena by LifeVac on the iHeartRadio app.

That's The Man in the Arena by LifeVac, because doing the right thing still matters.

Brent Bozel

is not a better choice.

There's a lot of history behind that name, especially considering he shares it with his father, Leo Brent Bozel II.

He was William F.

Buckley's best friend and Joseph McCarthy's speechwriter.

And then there is, of course, his son, Leo Brent Bozel IV,

who was convicted of five felonies before getting pardoned along with all of the other January 6 rioters.

And we can't get into all that.

Not today.

The thing you might be interested to know about Leo Brent Bozel III

is that he pretty actively opposed the idea of ending apartheid.

And not just as a casual private opinion, this wasn't an ugly thought he was having at home by himself.

No, in 1987, he was the head of the National Conservative Political Action Committee.

And in that capacity, he signed on as a coalition partner for a group called the Coalition Against ANC Terrorism.

And that year, the group hosted a summit to oppose a meeting between the U.S.

Secretary of State and Oliver Tambo, who was at the time the leader of the African National Congress.

And speakers at the summit that they held included policy analysts from groups like the Heritage Foundation.

They also brought in a South African political activist named John Gogatia.

Gogatya was the founder and leader of a political organization in South Africa.

It was, allegedly, a group of black moderates who opposed multiracial democracy.

Gogatya actually made several trips to the United States to lobby against U.S.

sanctions on the apartheid regime.

He did turn out to be employed by South African military intelligence, but you probably already guessed that.

That same year, 1987, Bozell produced a series of television commercials urging Americans to write to the White House to express their support for the Nicaraguan Contras.

Before the commercials were released, Bozel attended a screening of the videos with his special guest, Death Squad leader Adolfo Calero.

So there's definitely some baggage there for Bozell.

The South African party that he was calling terrorists in 1987 holds the presidency right now.

Cyril Ramaposa, the current president of South Africa, was one of the African National Congress' negotiators during the talks that ended apartheid.

While there was some public uncertainty as to whether Ramaposa would admit Pollock as an an ambassador, I haven't seen any speculation that the president would refuse to accept Bozell.

But honestly, once Trump posted that online that he was going to nominate Bozell,

there was not a lot of follow-up to that.

So I guess we'll have to wait and see if he's even confirmed.

Because among the countless problems created every day by the current administration, is this lack of follow-up.

It seems like every day the president just fires off some half-baked demand that doesn't really have any clear force of law or plan for implementation.

And maybe some government office is working on implementing the new policy, and maybe they aren't.

It's hard to say.

That executive order back in February called for the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security to prioritize humanitarian relief, including admission and resettlement through the United States Refugee Admissions Program for Afrikaners.

And then a month later, on March 7th, he posted on Truth Social:

Any farmer with family from South Africa seeking to flee that country for reasons of safety will be invited to the United States of America with a rapid pathway to citizenship.

This process will begin immediately.

A few weeks later, the website for the U.S.

Embassy in South Africa posted a very generic set of FAQs about the refugee admissions admissions program.

But it doesn't have any information specific to this program or any particular timeline.

It just directs those who are interested in inquiring about the program to send a message to a State Department email address, Pretoria PRMINFO.

And the PRM there is the abbreviation for the State Department's Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration.

So, at the very least, we know the State Department set up an email address for this.

And a few days after that page went up, the New York Times reported that they had obtained documents outlining a plan that the administration was calling Mission South Africa.

And phase one of the plan was already underway.

The State Department had dispatched teams to convert vacant office space in Pretoria for use by U.S.

officials.

who were going to go over there and review the over 8,000 applications that had already been received.

And then last week, on April 24th, Reuters reported that U.S.

refugee officers had in fact flown to Pretoria to begin interviewing the applicants whose applications were successfully reviewed.

And they report that at least 30 Afrikaners who had applied for refugee resettlement have had their applications approved.

The sources are all unnamed, and the White House and the embassy declined to comment.

Anonymous Department of Homeland Security employees told Reuters that applicants who claimed to have been persecuted by black South Africans had gained preliminary approval.

Another employee told the outlet, I imagine some will be denied, as we do in all cases, but I think there is administrative pressure to approve these.

The article is careful to note that they attempted to, and were unable to, verify the stories of persecution that were shared with them by several of the applicants.

And the article ends with a quote from the only person who gave their name, a woman named Katya Beden.

Beden works with a very newly formed organization called AmeriConners.

According to their website, their mission is to assist South Africans in navigating this process and successfully move to the United States as refugees.

The homepage has a very helpful set of FAQs.

Your basics, like, do I need a visa?

Do I need a lawyer?

And they say no on both of those.

You don't need that.

It's going to be easy.

They assure the reader that, of course, you can take your pets with you.

The job market is great there and you don't need any vaccinations.

My favorite question, though, is, will I have to prove persecution?

And the answer is no, you don't have to prove it.

Quote, no,

you don't.

This requirement only occurs when an individual slash group initiates the refugee status request where the circumstances in the problem country are unknown.

In the South Africa case, the U.S.

is not only aware of the racial prejudice towards minorities, but President Trump himself has laid out the case to that effect.

So there you have it.

This is the most obvious and clear-cut case of persecution that has ever existed in human history.

People who are fleeing active genocides, active war zones, have to do this.

But if you're a white person in South Africa, it's very obvious that you are suffering, so don't even bother.

And the site assures prospective refugees that this program isn't just for farmers.

Even though Trump seems to have been motivated by the twin boogeymen of farm murders and farm seizures, issues that even if they were real, would only affect farmers.

But the site assures the reader that all Afrikaners are eligible.

Guidance from the administration has been muddled and rare and contradictory.

In several of his comments, Trump is definitely using the word farmers.

But in the executive order, he does use the word Afrikaners.

A statement from a State Department official used the language, descendants of settlers being abused by the government.

And a State Department document just says, disfavored minorities.

And it sounds like everyone is just trying to avoid saying, white people.

And I guess that's good news for Katya Beden, that woman who works for the Americaners website.

She was wearing a Make America Great Again hat when she showed up at the embassy for her interview, but she isn't a farmer.

According to her personal website, she is a self-love coach.

For just $200 an hour, you can call Katya on Zoom for a one-on-one faith-based trauma recovery session to heal from your toxic relationships.

It's audio only, though.

She is not going to turn on the camera.

Not even if you buy the $2,000 12-week self-love journey mentoring package.

Aside from Beden, everyone Reuters spoke to declined to be named in the article.

So it's hard to sort out how many people went in for interviews, what their stories are, if they're all sincere.

But I did find one woman on Facebook who has been posting in multiple groups for Afrikaners interested in moving to the United States.

And she actually started posting about this a few days before the New York Times broke the story that U.S.

officials had begun conducting the interviews in Pretoria.

So I'm inclined to believe she is talking about a real thing that happened because she couldn't have pulled this from the news.

So a few days before that story broke, a woman named Annalee posted,

Hi everybody, my husband and I just finished our preliminary interview with the U.S.

Embassy in Pretoria.

From what I understand, the interviewers were delegates slash representatives of the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration, U.S.

Department of State, just sent to South Africa for this week's interviews, traveling back to the the U.S.

tonight.

She stated in our invitational email that this interview was to collect information on individuals' experience, not for official application.

She was very polite, asked us a few basic questions, then spent most of the 90-plus minutes asking, listening, and typing our life experiences and instances where/slash/when we were affected, deprived, persecuted, or wronged due to our race.

A lot of detail was asked.

Most of the focus was on these specific experiences.

And she goes on to say that she doesn't have much more information, but she was told that she'll hear from Homeland Security in the coming weeks, and that officers from the U.S.

Refugee Admissions Program will be arriving in South Africa

soon.

Annalie and her husband do not appear to be farmers.

Her husband is a real estate agent.

They have several adult children and they appear to be financially secure enough to enjoy the occasional international vacation.

But I think it's really interesting that she noted how fixated that State Department employee was on collecting anecdotes about white persecution.

They spent most of that hour and a half long interview trying to get them to talk about times where they'd experienced anti-white racism.

And then just last week, on April 25th, Katya Beden, that employee of the AmeriConnect Network, Network, tweeted that the first South African families approved for resettlement in the United States will arrive here, quote, next week, which, if she's telling the truth, would mean that they could already be here as you're listening to this.

The administration is still not offered any clear explanation of how the process works or if it's already underway, so it's possible she's making that up to keep people hopeful, to keep them going to her website.

But it's equally possible that the Trump administration plucked a couple of the most racist families in South Africa and just put them on a plane to Georgia or something.

We don't know.

Will Trump follow through on any part of this?

Hard to say.

There is

so much more to say about this story.

Especially because turns out it isn't over.

But I know this story has been going on for too long because I'm starting to recognize the words when I open a webpage that's in Afrikaans.

I had imagined a much tidier ending to this story, one that I poured two months and more than 50,000 words into, but to be quite honest with you, I watched way too much Trucker Carlson this week.

And I'm trying to have a wedding in a couple of days.

I won't be back with brand new full-length episodes for the next two weeks, but I am going to try to get something together so that there's something for you on your feed while I'm gone, so you won't miss me too much.

So be good to each other.

And please, don't do anything that's going to make you one of my weird little guys.

Weird Little Guys is a production of Boozo Media at NiHeartRadio.

It's researched, written, and recorded by me, Molly Conger.

Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans.

The show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan.

The theme music was composed by Brad Dickert.

You can email me at WeirdLittleGuyspodcast at gmail.com.

I will definitely read it, but I probably won't answer it.

It's nothing personal.

Tired of spills and stains on your sofa?

WashableSofas.com has your back, featuring the Anibay Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine-washable inside and out, where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

That's right, sofas started just $699.

Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabrics.

Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing.

The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Check out washable sofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anabay sofa, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.

If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

No return chipping or restocking fees, every penny back.

Upgrade now at washablesofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime.

My husband said, Your dad's been killed.

This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar.

I was just completely in shock.

Liz's father murdered, and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound.

I didn't feel real at all.

More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

We're still fighting.

Listen to Hands Tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It seems everyone gets a tip these days.

Deliver food?

Get a tip.

Drive around town?

Get a tip.

Serve a drink?

Get a tip.

But here's one tip that can help you find a higher paying career.

Merit America can help you get the training and support to find and succeed in an in-demand job, like data analytics or HR admin or supply chain planning.

It may be the last tip you ever need.

Learn more at meritamerica.org.

Snoring ruining your sleep or someone else's?

Mute by Rhinomed is the simple science-backed solution.

Just insert, adjust, and breathe.

Mute is a discrete nasal device proven to increase airflow and reduce snoring.

No batteries, no noise, just better sleep.

Find Mute at Amazon and Walgreens.

Try it risk-free and sleep soundly tonight.

Learn more at mutesnoring.com.

That's mutesnoring.com.

This is an iHeart podcast.