The Klansman's Twin: Dennis Mahon, Pt. 3

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Speaker 2 This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something.

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Speaker 17 Hello, and happy new year, everybody. I think 2025 is going to be a banner year for weird little guys and I don't mean the show unfortunately.

Speaker 17 They're just making newer, weirder guys all the time lately and I can hardly keep up.

Speaker 17 And as time marches on, I'm stuck in the past, connecting the dots on decades-old stories of the weird little guys who came before the right-wing terrorists of today.

Speaker 17 I hope you're having a peaceful and cheerful holiday season, whatever that looks like for you. I had every intention of using that week of relative downtime to get caught up, maybe even get ahead.

Speaker 17 It probably won't surprise you to hear that absolutely did not happen.

Speaker 17 Something about the twinkle of Christmas lights pulled me away from my maniacal, sprawling notes about Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy theories. I can't explain it.

Speaker 17 And as I was chipping away at the next chapter of Dennis Mahon's life, I realized there was a strange little side story that I was going to have to cut.

Speaker 17 It just didn't fit in the narrative flow and it wasn't 100% relevant to the story arc I was plotting out, so I was prepared to scrap it.

Speaker 17 It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and I know it won't be the last.

Speaker 17 I love a little side story, but I'm starting to get the feel for the kinds of side stories that will take us off course for an interesting few minutes and the ones that are going to derail the whole episode.

Speaker 17 And this was the latter.

Speaker 17 But then I remembered, this is my show. I'm the captain of this ship.

Speaker 17 And for me, getting to the point

Speaker 17 has never been the point.

Speaker 17 We're on a journey here, and I never really know where I'm taking us until I get there.

Speaker 17 We'll get back to Dennis Mahon in Elohim City and the bomb he mailed to a public library in Arizona for the next episode. I promise.

Speaker 17 But this week we're going on a side quest because I just couldn't bear to cut the story of one of my favorite kinds of things to find in a Weird Little Guy's past.

Speaker 17 A lawsuit about anti-white discrimination.

Speaker 17 So if you'll indulge me, here's the story of our convicted bomber's twin brother getting fired because he wouldn't stop wearing the Nazi t-shirt he bought at a gun show.

Speaker 17 I'm Molly Conger, and this is Weird Little Guys.

Speaker 17 The last few episodes have been about Dennis Mahon.

Speaker 17 We've talked about the first few decades of his life. He was born in a small community in northern Illinois in 1950.
He served in the Army after high school and trained as an aircraft mechanic.

Speaker 17 In the late 70s, he joined the Ku Klux Klan and then the neo-Nazi group National Alliance.

Speaker 17 In interviews with journalists over the years, he's often claimed his belief in the importance of racial separatism arose from his experience in the Florida National Guard when his unit was deployed in May of 1980 to assist in transporting Cuban refugees during the Mariel Boatlift crisis.

Speaker 17 I don't doubt that he was there or that having to interact with asylum seekers deepened his hatred of people who aren't white, but the record does seem to indicate that he'd already joined the Klan before the first boat arrived in Miami that month.

Speaker 17 From there, Dennis disappeared for a few years.

Speaker 17 He claims to have been underground. carrying out Klan bombings in Florida, Michigan, and Oklahoma, targeting synagogues, government office buildings, and abortion clinics.

Speaker 17 He re-emerged in Kansas City in 1987 as a regional organizer for the Klan.

Speaker 17 I won't retread the entirety of those last two episodes, but we've been following Dennis all over the country, the world even. From Kansas City to Canada, from Tulsa to Berlin.

Speaker 17 He won a lawsuit over his right to broadcast a racist public access TV show. He lost a lawsuit to Fred Rogers.
He got banned from Canada.

Speaker 17 He tried to revive the Klan in Germany, and he absolutely loved talking to reporters.

Speaker 17 As far as mid-level hate group organizers go, he's a little unusual in that respect.

Speaker 17 So there's ample record of where he was, what he was up to, who his friends were, and the narrative about himself that he wanted you to believe.

Speaker 17 But all this time, we've been talking about Dennis Mahon.

Speaker 17 And there's been someone else in the story that we haven't talked much about.

Speaker 17 He's been there. He's always there.

Speaker 17 But he's much quieter. He keeps his name out of things.

Speaker 17 But Dennis Mahon's identical twin brother, Daniel Mahon,

Speaker 17 was there all along.

Speaker 17 As I mentioned in the last episode, Daniel Mahon has never been convicted of a crime. He was indicted alongside his brother in 2009, a saga we'll cover next week.

Speaker 17 But unlike his brother, who is serving a 40-year sentence in Terre Haute, Daniel wasn't convicted.

Speaker 17 And if you ask Daniel, he'd tell you that he was never a member of any of those groups his brother was mixed up in.

Speaker 17 I mean, I didn't ask him. I guess I could have tried to reach him for comment.
But I think he'd tell me the same thing he told an attorney for American Airlines during a deposition in 2003.

Speaker 17 that he was never what he called a card-carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan or White Aryan Resistance or National Alliance.

Speaker 17 So, just for the record here at the top, I'll make no allegations that haven't been made in sworn statements by agents of the FBI or the ATF.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon isn't guilty of any crimes. A matching set of genes doesn't necessarily mean you carry a matching set of beliefs.

Speaker 17 But I read a few hundred pages of his own own sworn testimony that left me with the impression that these identical twins share a little bit more than their DNA.

Speaker 17 With Dennis occupying the spotlight, the record on Daniel is actually pretty sparse.

Speaker 17 A lot of what I can say about him with any degree of certainty came out of his own mouth in this deposition he sat for on October 29, 2003.

Speaker 17 He was three years into a lawsuit against his former employer, American Airlines, over his termination in May of 1999.

Speaker 17 For nine hours, he answered questions about his involvement in the company's Caucasian employee resource group.

Speaker 17 But even a side story has to start before the beginning.

Speaker 17 So before we get to the strange revelations in that conference room in Tulsa, I want to set the scene a little bit with some history about the concept of employee resource groups.

Speaker 17 If you've ever worked for almost any big corporation these days, you've probably seen a flyer in the break room for something like this.

Speaker 17 They might be called employee resource groups, ERGs, employee affinity groups, business network groups, or some other mishmash of corporate buzzwords about mentorship and networking.

Speaker 17 ERGs are, according to a continuing education module for corporate lawyers that I found, quote, organized based on social identity, shared characteristics, or life experience.

Speaker 17 Affinity groups are generally initiated by employees and often involve or implicate protected classes such as sex, gender, sexual orientation, race, national origin, disability, and veteran status.

Speaker 17 Today's employee resource groups have expanded to include other kinds of shared interests.

Speaker 17 But at their core, they allow employees who belong to a particular group to network, support and mentor one another, and advocate for themselves within the company.

Speaker 17 The ghouls at McKinsey say that they can be a valuable tool to recruit and retain a diverse workforce by fostering a sense of inclusion, and they can provide a ready pool of diverse faces to send to panels and recruitment events.

Speaker 17 I found one press release praising the efforts of the Hispanic Employee Resource Group at JPMorgan Chase.

Speaker 17 The group's mentorship program led to a measurable increase in Hispanic women in management positions.

Speaker 17 And for the most part, these groups sound like something cooked up by an HR department to put in a shareholder meeting slideshow.

Speaker 17 But there's a history here.

Speaker 17 The idea of people who share a particular life experience getting together to talk about it is obviously not new. That's not something anyone came up with.
You don't have to invent that.

Speaker 17 But the Employee Resource Group, as it exists in corporate America today originated with the National Black Employee Caucus at Xerox in 1970.

Speaker 17 All of the human resources blurbs and business press puff pieces about employee resource groups kind of just leave the story there. They started at Xerox 1970.

Speaker 17 But there's always more to a story than that.

Speaker 17 And apparently, Xerox was up to some pretty radical diversity, equity, and inclusion corporate practice decades before anyone ever said that phrase out loud.

Speaker 17 In 1966, the first student at Xerox's international fellowship program was a Fulbright scholar from Ethiopia, who happened to be the younger brother of a member of Haile Selassie's cabinet.

Speaker 17 In 1968, the company spent a million dollars to sponsor a television series called Of Black America.

Speaker 17 The seven-part documentary on Black history from slavery through the still ongoing riots that followed the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Speaker 17 aired in prime time, and it earned Xerox threatening letters from the Ku Klux Klan and hysterical letters to the editor in papers across the country from small business owners swearing they were going to throw out their copy machines.

Speaker 17 An op-ed in the London Evening Standard described the program as, quote, unmistakably hostile to the establishment.

Speaker 17 That same year, 1968, Xerox partnered with a Rochester-based civil rights group called Fight, which stands for Freedom, Integration, God, Honor Today.

Speaker 17 The New York Times called Fight, quote, a militant Negro organization, and made a pointed note that professional radical Saul Alinsky had had a hand in it.

Speaker 17 And that the press conference announcing this new venture was held in a room decorated with posters of H. Rap Brown, Stokely Carmichael, and Shea Guevara.

Speaker 17 But Xerox's partnership with Fight created the first black-run community development corporation in the United States.

Speaker 17 Xerox spent millions on manufacturing equipment and job training in the creation of these black-owned manufacturing companies that employed hundreds of black employees in Rochester.

Speaker 17 A manager at Xerox who'd worked on the plan said, my only question is, why didn't we do it sooner?

Speaker 17 The first manufacturing plant funded by Xerox through the FIGE Partnership opened at what used to be a boarded-up factory, just a few blocks away from the center of the violence that had inspired Xerox President Joseph Wilson to pour millions of dollars into diversifying his workforce.

Speaker 17 The 1964 Rochester Riots.

Speaker 17 I know we're a little far afield here. Daniel Mahon was 14 years old and living in Davis Junction, Illinois in the summer of 1964.

Speaker 17 But sometimes the way history repeats and rhymes and echoes is just irresistible to me.

Speaker 17 Because there is another race riot later in this story and it seems irresponsible not to draw the lines that connect these things.

Speaker 17 On Friday, July 24th, 1964, in Rochester, New York, The Northeast Mothers Association had a permit to hold a block party in Rochester's 7th Ward.

Speaker 17 They were raising money to build a playground in the neighborhood.

Speaker 17 Around 200 people attended the event in the early evening. But as the night wore on and the children went to bed, the streets were still full of people having a good time on a hot summer night.

Speaker 17 Around 11 p.m., two Rochester police officers confronted a man they said was behaving in, quote, an unruly manner. They moved to arrest 20-year-old Randy Manigal.

Speaker 17 Bystanders saw the officers using excessive force on a young black man, and some of them tried to intervene.

Speaker 17 Within half an hour, the Rochester Police Department had set dogs on the neighbors, something they'd promised they wouldn't do again after prior incidents involving police dogs mauling black residents.

Speaker 17 By 1 a.m., the fire hoses were out.

Speaker 17 The crowd had swelled to hundreds and officers were firing tear gas canisters indiscriminately.

Speaker 17 When the sun rose, state police arrived to a crowd that had grown to the thousands.

Speaker 17 The violence continued for a full 48 hours, but by the time 1,000 National Guardsmen arrived on Sunday, it was over.

Speaker 17 The county civil defense director Robert Abbott was surveying the scene from a helicopter hours after the riot ended.

Speaker 17 when the pilot lost control of the aircraft and crashed into a house on Clarissa Street. Two occupants of the home were burned to death.
Both the pilot and Robert Abbott died of their injuries.

Speaker 17 A later report on the crash says that alcohol played a role, and no reporting I could find from the time period named the two black men who burned to death inside their own home.

Speaker 17 By the time the dust settled, five people were dead, hundreds had been injured, and nearly 1,000 people had been arrested.

Speaker 17 Initial reporting, as ever, ever, blamed the unrest on outside agitators. Later analysis of those arrests, however, would show that only 14 of the people arrested lived outside of Monroe County.

Speaker 17 In the aftermath of the riot, Joseph Wilson asked a manager at Xerox how many black employees he had.

Speaker 17 The answer was six.

Speaker 17 Determined to change that, he approached local civil rights leader Reverend Franklin Florence to work out a plan.

Speaker 17 One of the barriers the company had to hiring more black employees was a systemic one. An unemployed black man in 1965 was less likely than his white counterpart to have a high school diploma.

Speaker 17 The program they developed was called Operation Step Up.

Speaker 17 Black men, ages 18 to 25, without high school diplomas, would work half a day on the factory floor and spend half a day in a classroom with teachers hired by Xerox to prepare them for a high school equivalency test.

Speaker 17 By 1966, Xerox was bringing classes of 25 men at a time through the program. After finishing their high school courses, the men became full-time union factory employees.

Speaker 17 Wilson worked closely with Reverend Florence to bridge cultural gaps. Assembly line foremen received additional training on race relations.

Speaker 17 Clergy were hired to assist in classroom management and guidance.

Speaker 17 And hundreds of young men got high school diplomas and good union jobs.

Speaker 17 When I first read that Wilson started the Black Employee Resource Group in 1970 in response to those riots in 1964, I didn't understand why there were six years in between the inciting incident and the actual formation of the group.

Speaker 17 But this is why.

Speaker 17 There weren't any Black employees in 1964.

Speaker 17 He spent that time investing in the community and building a more diverse workforce. Today's HR guidance talks about how ERGs can attract a diverse workforce.

Speaker 17 But the very first one only existed at all because work was done to address the systemic problems facing those employees.

Speaker 17 The formation of the National Black Employee Caucus in 1970 is the only part of this work that seems to get remembered in human resources industry newsletters about workplace diversity?

Speaker 17 I'm not sure why Corporate America isn't interested in celebrating his financial support of black radicals.

Speaker 17 But that's the story of how we got employee resource groups.

Speaker 17 Which brings us back to Daniel Mahon, the Klansman's brother, making flyers for a Caucasian employee resource group at the American Airlines Diversity Fair, 1999.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon did not start the Caucasian Employee Resource Group at the American Airlines Maintenance and Engineering Facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Speaker 17 By his account, he wasn't even interested in being a member and didn't attend a meeting of the group at all in its first few months. And the fact of the group's existence wasn't even the issue here.

Speaker 17 Nowhere in the procedural history of the lawsuit that follows does anyone even say that there should not have been an affinity group for white people?

Speaker 17 In fact, the Diversity Advisory Council said that they were quote, saddened by the need to suspend the group for six months over Daniel's actions.

Speaker 17 And they called the group a valuable member of the Diversity Advisory Council family.

Speaker 17 No, there was inexplicably no problem at all with the Caucasian Employee Resource Group until Daniel Mahon showed up in a Turner Diaries t-shirt at at a meeting to discuss the racist pamphlets he made for the Diversity Fair.

Speaker 17 Everyone agrees that Daniel Mahon wasn't fired just because he was a member of the white employee group. But Daniel went to court claiming that he was fired just for being white.

Speaker 2 This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something.

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Speaker 17 On March 11th, 1999, there was a diversity fair at the American Airlines Maintenance and Engineering Base in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Speaker 17 The company had, as a part of their corporate diversity program, encouraged the formation of a variety of employee resource groups.

Speaker 17 There was an African-American ERG, an Asian Culture Association, one for women in aviation, a Jewish ERG, an employees with disabilities ERG, a gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender ERG, Christian, Muslim, Latin, Indian, Native American, one for employees over 40, one for people interested in improving their work-life balance, and of course, there was the Caucasian Employee Resource Group.

Speaker 17 There may have been others later on, but these are the ones that were listed in a a company pamphlet about the program that was written in 1999.

Speaker 17 And just as an aside, I was kind of struck by the inclusion of the T in the LGBT group in 1999.

Speaker 17 You forget sometimes that it wasn't always the lightning rod that it is today.

Speaker 17 I guess for a long time, everybody just hated all queer people the same.

Speaker 17 It's hard to feel like it's progress to get assimilation for some at the cost of heightened demonization of part of our community.

Speaker 17 But

Speaker 17 nevertheless, shout out to the trans aircraft mechanics in Oklahoma in 1999.

Speaker 17 I know you were going through it.

Speaker 17 The diversity fair was an opportunity for every employee resource group to set up a booth and talk to their fellow employees about the group and hand out flyers and network. It's a nice idea.

Speaker 17 You don't have to be a member of a particular group to show an interest in the work being done by their ERG.

Speaker 17 And this kind of thing might provide an employee with a chance to find out about something like the disability ERG's advocacy around company policies that impact disabled customers.

Speaker 17 To be honest, I imagine you probably didn't have to clock out to take an hour to walk around the diversity fair, so even if you got nothing out of it, maybe you wasted a little time at work, you know?

Speaker 17 Everybody wins.

Speaker 17 But racists always ruin the fun.

Speaker 17 Denda Dendamehan wasn't there that day, but the pamphlets he made were.

Speaker 17 Other members of the Caucasian Employee Resource Group handed out a flyer celebrating aviation pioneers.

Speaker 17 It's pretty amateur stuff. This was before people really had access to computers.
Computers existed, obviously. The 90s weren't the Stone Ages.

Speaker 17 I personally was spending hours coloring in shapes on kid pics.

Speaker 17 But we were pretty lucky to have a computer at home in the 90s.

Speaker 17 So this wasn't Photoshop, right? He cut out pictures of famous aviators and glued them to a piece of paper, and then he ran that sheet through a manual typewriter to type the captions onto it.

Speaker 17 And then he took the resulting Frankenflyer to a Kinko's and ran copies. So it's not a high quality product, even before we get to the racism.

Speaker 17 And it's got some of the historical aviators you're probably imagining. A picture of Amelia Earhart is captioned, pioneer woman aviator.
Wilbert Wright gets first powered flight.

Speaker 17 Chuck Yeager is captioned first to break the sound barrier. Nothing weird here.

Speaker 17 Charles Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathizer and a virulent anti-Semite, and Werner von Braun was literally a Nazi.

Speaker 17 But yeah, I guess, technically, personal lives aside, to the extent that being being a member of the SS is your personal life, they do fit the bill here as pioneers in aviation.

Speaker 17 The problem with the flyers becomes apparent when you get to the back.

Speaker 17 Because underneath a cut and pasted picture of a cartoon airplane, it says...

Speaker 17 These famous men and women who made aviation history all have one thing in common. They are members of the white race.
A race of explorers, discoverers, scientists, and philosophers.

Speaker 17 We are proud of the accomplishments of our noble race in the past, present, and future.

Speaker 17 Several of these heroes of aviation have their names misspelled. He's missing the H and Werner von Braun,

Speaker 17 and I swear it looks like he spelled Braun with a W instead of a U, but to be fair, that could be a photocopy or artifact.

Speaker 17 World War I fighter pilot Edward Rickenbacher is missing the last two letters of his last name. Italian aviator Francesco Brachpapa is captioned as Francisco, and Francisco isn't even spelled right.

Speaker 17 And in the little racist blurb on the back, the word philosopher doesn't have an L in it.

Speaker 17 I'm not just pointing this out to clown on a working-class man who can't spell. It's okay if you can't spell.
That doesn't make you a bad person.

Speaker 17 Because in the interest of fairness, I do want to say that the flyer is full full of typographical errors.

Speaker 17 Because he would later claim to have made another typo.

Speaker 17 He capitalized the first letters in the words white race, where they appear in the middle of a sentence with otherwise standard capitalization.

Speaker 17 And this is a standard practice in white supremacist literature.

Speaker 17 During the investigation, he maintained that it had no particular meaning. He was just a bad typist.

Speaker 17 So, yes, he did spell a lot of these words wrong. But that's a combination of this admittedly poor typing and probably just plain not knowing.

Speaker 17 But there aren't any other errors in capitalization.

Speaker 17 So all things considered, this looks like a style choice, not a mistake.

Speaker 17 Within hours of the pamphlets being distributed at the diversity fair, there were complaints.

Speaker 17 Two weeks later, later, the Diversity Advisory Council that oversaw the resource groups made the decision to suspend the Caucasian Employee Resource Group for a period of six months.

Speaker 17 No one was really in trouble. None of the employees involved with the group were being disciplined.
The group wasn't even being banned.

Speaker 17 They just needed to take a few months off to reassess their alignment with the company's policies governing such groups.

Speaker 17 including requirements that all employee resource groups support the company's policy on non-discrimination and a harassment-free workplace, promoting tolerance and respect for other employees, and not having any financial or organizational ties to outside groups.

Speaker 17 And Daniel's flyer seems to violate all of these rules.

Speaker 17 In the earliest meetings that management had about these flyers,

Speaker 17 it was clear that everyone knew who Daniel's brother was.

Speaker 17 To place us back in Dennis' timeline, it's 1999.

Speaker 17 Dennis Mahon was a well-known white supremacist, neo-Nazi, and Ku Klux Klan organizer. You didn't have to be in the know about clandestine organizations to know that.
It wasn't a secret.

Speaker 17 He ran for mayor of Tulsa in 1992 and again in 1998.

Speaker 17 In the mid-90s, he paid to have a billboard put up in Tulsa honoring Robert Matthews, the leader of the Nazi bank robbery gang that murdered Alan Berg.

Speaker 17 The Nazi skinhead gang that he cultivated for white Aryan resistance shot a little girl in the face in Tulsa in the late 80s. He was banned from entering Canada, the UK, and Germany.

Speaker 17 And by this point in the late 90s, Dennis was at the center of a number of conspiracy theories about the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

Speaker 17 And he had just been quite publicly called before a grand jury on the matter in 1998, just a few months before all of this is happening.

Speaker 17 This isn't niche stuff. 170 people, including an entire daycare center, were murdered an hour and a half away from where this workplace meeting is happening.

Speaker 17 And a lot of people thought that Dennis helped make that bomb.

Speaker 17 Plenty of people were very aware that Dennis Mahon was fond of telling reporters that he thought Timothy McVeigh was a very courageous man with tremendous drive and quote: If we had 100 men like him in this country we'd probably change things around

Speaker 17 so when the diversity advisory council met to discuss the flyers two weeks after the diversity fair they knew

Speaker 17 they knew who daniel's twin brother was

Speaker 17 the minutes from that meeting don't mention either mayhan brother by name but they say the flyer was developed by individuals believed to have an affiliation with local extremist groups.

Speaker 17 And they even seem to indicate a familiarity with some of the particulars of Dennis's publications, noting that, quote, some of the comments on the flyer were similar to the rhetoric used by those groups in a racist nature.

Speaker 17 You know, I have to hand it to them. It's very clear that they knew what they were looking at and they understood the importance of nipping it in the bud.

Speaker 17 And it could have ended there.

Speaker 17 Nobody was in trouble. A line had been crossed.
The company made it clear where that line was.

Speaker 17 And everybody was just going to take a beep to reflect on the experience.

Speaker 17 But if there's one thing so many of these weird little guys have in common, it's that they absolutely do not know when to shut the fuck up.

Speaker 17 The company made the decision at the end of March 1999 to suspend the Caucasian Employee Resource Group. just for six months.

Speaker 17 But it wasn't until the April 20th, 1999 meeting of the Caucasian ERG that some members of management met with the group to explain this decision.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon arrived at the meeting wearing a t-shirt, printed with the picture of the cover of a book. The cover depicts a man pointing a rifle and a woman pointing a handgun.

Speaker 17 You can't see what they're aiming at, but they both clearly have something in their sights.

Speaker 17 Above their heads, the text reads, the Turner Diaries.

Speaker 17 This book comes up too often on this show. I never know how thoroughly to retread this ground.
But this could be your first episode, and how confused must you be right now?

Speaker 17 We're kind of in the middle of a longer story here.

Speaker 17 But the Turner Diaries is a novel written by the founder of the neo-Nazi group National Alliance.

Speaker 17 After a few years coming out in a serialized format in a Nazi newsletter, it was published as a book in 1978 and sold through the mail in ads in Nazi newsletters and at gun shows and cross burnings.

Speaker 17 The violence in the novel is fictional, of course, but it's been the inspiration for many murderers and domestic terrorists.

Speaker 17 When Robert Matthews formed the Order, the Nazi terrorist group whose bank robberies financed paramilitary compounds, He borrowed the name from the book.

Speaker 17 When Timothy McVeigh was arrested after the Oklahoma City bombing, he had the pages of his favorite passages sitting on the seat in the car next to him.

Speaker 17 When John William King chained James Byrd Jr. to the back of his truck moments before dragging him to death in Texas in 1998, he joked to his accomplices that we're starting the Turner Diaries early.

Speaker 17 Because that's what happens in the Turner Diaries. The day of the rope.

Speaker 17 A nationwide mass lynching of black people, Jewish people, journalists, race traitors.

Speaker 17 It's not a good book. It's not well written.

Speaker 17 One online review of the book complains that, despite all the violence in this novel, there is much tedium and little conflict.

Speaker 17 But literary abomination or not, the book has inspired murders all over the world. for decades.

Speaker 17 And that's the shirt that Daniel wore to the meeting about his white Pride pamphlets.

Speaker 17 And that was the line, apparently. There were more complaints.
The initial decision to just suspend the group's activities obviously wasn't going to cut it.

Speaker 17 An investigation was opened into the complaints about Daniel's workplace conduct. And on May 10th, 1999, he was fired.

Speaker 17 The termination letter says, in addition to other findings in the investigation, wearing that shirt to the meeting created a racially hostile work environment.

Speaker 17 As a member of the Transport Workers Union, he filed a grievance protesting the decision, and it was ultimately appealed to the Board of Adjustment.

Speaker 17 In November of 1999, a full hearing was conducted, lasting three days.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon has always claimed that he had no involvement in his brother's activities.

Speaker 17 At the hearing, the company produced as evidence a Klan newsletter naming Daniel M.

Speaker 17 of Tulsa as White Patriot of the Month, quote, for his tremendous efforts in financial support of the struggle, and thanking him for his help setting up the cross at a crossburning event.

Speaker 17 He also provided the tent, the sound system, and the portable generator.

Speaker 17 The newsletter goes on to describe his large collection of Klan and National Socialist White Power merchandise, and praises him for supplying many white power groups with t-shirts over the years.

Speaker 17 He would ultimately admit that, yes, he is Daniel M. of Tulsa, but he really downplayed the praise that's being heaped upon him here.
He was just helping his brother out.

Speaker 17 He wasn't at the cross burning. He just gave his brother a ride there.

Speaker 17 The company called an expert witness to present evidence of the Mahon brothers' white supremacist activities, including that Klan newsletter naming Daniel a white patriot of the month.

Speaker 17 The expert also explained the significance of the language and the capitalization used in the flyer.

Speaker 17 The board's opinion doesn't name this expert witness, but I'm willing to risk $5 betting that it was Daniel Levitas.

Speaker 17 If I'd managed my time better this week, I would have written and asked him, but that's my guess.

Speaker 17 Over the course of three days, witness after witness was called.

Speaker 17 And the official reason for the termination had been the incident with the Turner Diary's t-shirt.

Speaker 17 But it came out in this hearing that this was far from the first time Daniel Mahon's white supremacist ties had caused friction at work.

Speaker 17 His supervisor testified that on Daniel's very first day at American Airlines back in 1986,

Speaker 17 he'd been complaining loudly about Jews and N-words.

Speaker 17 Two other supervisors testified about two separate incidents where they'd warned him not to bring Klan or white Aryan resistance materials to work.

Speaker 17 There'd been another complaint about him wearing a KKK hat and belt buckle.

Speaker 17 Multiple employees had complained about a KKK knife.

Speaker 17 A supervisor who worked nights as a security guard had been assigned a shift at a local gun show. where he saw Daniel Mahon selling merchandise at the Aryan Nations booth.

Speaker 17 The supervisor testified that Daniel called him over and tried to give him an Aryan Nations t-shirt, but he declined.

Speaker 17 The same supervisor testified that Daniel had invited him over to his house one night and showed him a racially violent movie and tried to give him white supremacist texts.

Speaker 17 A Walgreens cashier testified that sometime after Daniel's termination, the brothers came into the drugstore to drop off some film to be developed.

Speaker 17 and a visibly intoxicated Dennis Mahon was shouting about how if American Airlines didn't give his brother his job back, they were going to see the biggest bomb they ever had.

Speaker 17 The expert offered evidence that Daniel's grievance with the company was a subject of significant discussion and fundraising in white supremacist newsletters and broadcasts, which undermines his claim that he had no connection to those groups.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon's union representative advised him not to testify on his own behalf.

Speaker 17 But they did put on several witnesses who testified that he was a model employee, that he had been kind to them, or that they personally had not been offended by the flyers.

Speaker 17 Linda Dill and Craig Nichols, the employees who actually led the Caucasian Employee Resource Group, testified that it was not true that Daniel had explicitly told the group that his brother would help him make the flyers.

Speaker 17 The board was unconvinced, writing in their final opinion in March of 2000: quote, clearly he holds white supremacist beliefs and has ties to and involvement in such organizations.

Speaker 17 The opinion is clear that he can't be and isn't being disciplined for his brother's conduct or even for his own conduct outside of work.

Speaker 17 But this background reflects unfavorably on the underlying intent of the flyers and the decision to wear the Turner Diary shirt to work.

Speaker 17 Their summary of the evidence concludes by saying,

Speaker 17 the fact that he was technically proficient and nice to some people doesn't outweigh all the other evidence, nor is it directly related to the specific nature of his conduct in this case.

Speaker 17 The decision to uphold the termination was two to one.

Speaker 17 Arbitrator Gil Vernon and American Airlines employee Mary Tinsman agreed, with J.C. Brown dissenting.

Speaker 17 I struggle to pin down who J.C. Brown might have been, but Gil Vernon is kind of a big deal in the world of union arbitration anyway.

Speaker 17 In 1996, President Clinton appointed him to a commission to help resolve a national railroad labor dispute. President Obama appointed him to a similar body in 2011.

Speaker 17 He's an arbitrator for Major League Baseball. He was the president of the National Academy of Arbitrators in 2010, and he is also Bonnie Ver's dad.

Speaker 17 Well, his son is Justin Vernon, the frontman of the indie folk band.

Speaker 17 So, next time you hear a Bonniver song, I guess you can think about the time his dad wrote this about a racist.

Speaker 17 His message was subtle, but in clearly resonant tones, rang true only to the sad song of racial superiority. Clever equivocation and veiled threats are part and parcel of the grievance ilk.

Speaker 17 And he can't hide behind cleverness at the expense of the security, dignity, and respect of other workers who do not share his race or ethnicity or his attitudes about racial nobility.

Speaker 17 Much is debated in this record. However, in the final analysis, something must be said in plain and simple terms.
At the root of grievance conduct was hate.

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Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon spent the next several months trying to find a lawyer.

Speaker 17 He sent a letter to the law firm of former Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Turpin, but the firm turned the case down without even agreeing to meet with him.

Speaker 17 He consulted with his friend Gene, but Gene wasn't interested in the case.

Speaker 17 Gene, in this case, is a Tulsa-area bankruptcy attorney named Francis Eugene Huff.

Speaker 17 Daniel describes him as a conservative type person and a real nice guy. And they'd been friends for about nine years by the time he was deposed in 2003.

Speaker 17 He doesn't offer up any other facts about Gene, like that he was a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens, or the fact that he may have been too busy to take Daniel's case back then because he was in the middle of representing the Council of Conservative Citizens in their lawsuits regarding Confederate flags on public property.

Speaker 17 The questioning about Huff leaves me with the impression that The lawyer asking the questions did not believe Daniel when he said that Gene Huff never helped him with his case.

Speaker 17 Sometime in the summer of 2000, so after the arbitrator upheld his termination and before he filed his federal lawsuit, Daniel Mahon sent a letter to the ACLU asking them to take his case.

Speaker 17 The letter doesn't read like it was written by Daniel Mahon.

Speaker 17 And I don't just mean diction and spelling, although those may be dead giveaways.

Speaker 17 The real tip-off is a handwritten note in the margin of the letter that says, Gene, should you print Daniel Mahon in place of I?

Speaker 17 So what it sounds like is that Gene wrote the letter, pretending to be Daniel. And when Daniel read it, he didn't understand that.

Speaker 17 And so he was asking why the letter was written in the first person, as though he had written it himself.

Speaker 17 And for some reason, He mailed the letter to the ACLU

Speaker 17 like that. He didn't get another copy of it without that strange note in the margin.

Speaker 17 The letter is also written in cursive that doesn't match the style of cursive in Daniel's signature.

Speaker 17 And then towards the end of the letter, it abruptly switches to print that does more closely match his handwriting.

Speaker 17 Under oath, he says he wrote it himself and that Gene didn't help him.

Speaker 17 The letter itself isn't reproduced in the court record that I could find, but it appears to have been riddled with false claims.

Speaker 17 The local ACLU was already very familiar with Daniel Mahon's brother Dennis. They'd represented him a decade earlier in his lawsuit against Kansas City over the Klan's public access TV show.

Speaker 17 And it sounds like Daniel was doing his best to try to convince the ACLU that his firing had been a grave injustice.

Speaker 17 Because not only was he nothing like his brother, but his brother wasn't even really so bad.

Speaker 17 He would later claim that Dennis only got deported from Canada in 1993 because he was carrying a book by an English author that was illegal in Canada, which is almost certainly a reference to Holocaust denier David Irving, who had himself been banned from Canada in 1992.

Speaker 17 Daniel neglects to mention that the Canadian government was concerned that Dennis would incite violence at a Nazi rally during his visit.

Speaker 17 The violence at that Nazi rally happened anyway, but Dennis wasn't there.

Speaker 17 As for Dennis' trip to Germany, his brother says Dennis didn't even do any Nazi stuff there. He just went to an old church to lay some flowers.

Speaker 17 But it seems like the ACLU wasn't interested in going to bat for another Mahan because they didn't take the case.

Speaker 17 The lawyer he ended up hiring to represent him was a man named Robert Eugene Frazier III.

Speaker 17 And Frazier was young. He'd only just passed the bar in 1999, the year before he met Daniel in the summer of 2000.

Speaker 17 Daniel says they met when Frazier answered a classified ad in the newspaper about a boat he was selling.

Speaker 17 Frazier came to look at the boat, the men got to talking, Daniel found out he was a lawyer, and he agreed to take the case.

Speaker 17 Daniel would claim in that deposition that Dennis had left the Klan for good in 1990 because Daniel gave him an ultimatum.

Speaker 17 He said he didn't want that stuff going on in his house, which is where his brother lived.

Speaker 17 He outright says that he's actually responsible for getting his brother out of hate group organizing.

Speaker 17 But when he's pressed on this, he can't explain why then does his brother still live with him now, 10 years later, and that kind of stuff was very much still going on in his house.

Speaker 17 Their brothers both got their mail at the same P.O. box, the one Dennis used for his White Power newsletters.

Speaker 17 The phone line at the house they shared was the same one Dennis used to run his dialeracist hotline.

Speaker 17 In this deposition in 2003, Daniel claims Dennis hasn't been involved with white Aryan resistance since 1995, and that he hasn't really been involved in anything in years.

Speaker 17 That's just not true. He should have been charged with perjury for that.

Speaker 17 Because just a few weeks before he sat down to answer these questions, his twin brother was in the news in Arizona.

Speaker 17 Residents of Mesa had received a flurry of racist flyers, and Dennis is quoted in the paper about it. And the Arizona Republic describes him as the statewide director of white Aryan resistance.

Speaker 17 In 2001, when Dennis announced that he was moving to Arizona, Governor Jane Hull asked residents to wear a green ribbon to show their opposition to Dennis.

Speaker 17 Like to Dennis personally.

Speaker 17 The newspaper quite literally says, quote, Governor Jane Hull wants Arizonans to wear a green ribbon to show unity against Dennis Mahon, leader of the white Aryan resistance supremacist group.

Speaker 17 The headline is, go away, Mr. Mahon.

Speaker 17 You can't look a court reporter in her eyes and say your brother hasn't been involved in racist stuff for years when the actual governor of a whole state is denouncing him by name like that.

Speaker 17 The deposition transcript is a perplexing document.

Speaker 17 Like I said, it's the most information I have about Daniel straight from his own mouth under oath.

Speaker 17 But it's riddled with statements I know aren't true. Either because I have a better source that contradicts him or because it simply can't be true due to reality.

Speaker 17 Now, I won't say he's lying because I just did before,

Speaker 17 but lying under oath is called perjury and it's a crime when he hasn't been convicted of a crime.

Speaker 17 But not everything he said was true.

Speaker 17 And that's a fact.

Speaker 17 And now some of it is just dates. He says he married his wife Myrna in 1979, but the marriage license is 1978.
Okay, a lot of men don't know their their anniversary.

Speaker 17 But he also consistently refers to Myrna as his wife in the present tense.

Speaker 17 But by 2003, they'd been divorced for 19 years.

Speaker 17 They split in 1984, and she had since remarried at least twice.

Speaker 17 And several times during the proceeding, he brings up Myrna's race.

Speaker 17 They met when he was in the Navy and he was stationed in the Philippines. And would a man who is racist marry a Filipino woman?

Speaker 17 The answer to that is yes, obviously, of course he could. It happens all the time.
There's no shortage of white supremacist men with Asian, Pacific Islander, or Hispanic wives.

Speaker 17 I once got an elaborate death threat from a fairly prominent neo-Nazi who uses his Latino wife's name on paperwork for his small business so he can claim it's a women and minority-owned business.

Speaker 17 It happens a lot.

Speaker 17 But a lot of his answers are muddled. Dates that aren't possible, locations that don't match.

Speaker 17 The kinds of mistakes you could chalk up to a hazy memory. He recollects the time the Secret Service came to his house to talk to Dennis about pissing on Air Force One.

Speaker 17 The plane was apparently parked in a Boeing hangar in Wichita, where Dennis was working at the time. And he apparently entered the plane and relieved himself on the president's chair.

Speaker 17 The deposition transcript describes this as having taken place in spring of 1999.

Speaker 17 I think that may be a transcriptionist's typographical error, because it has to be 89.

Speaker 17 Daniel recalls that it was around two years after he and his wife separated.

Speaker 17 But that's not quite right either. They separated in 84.

Speaker 17 And the president in question was George Bush.

Speaker 17 We've had two president Bushes and Daniel occasionally claims that he and Myrna at some point got back together.

Speaker 17 I don't know if that's true, but even if it is, none of these combinations of facts produce the possibility for all of these things to have been true at the same time.

Speaker 17 Based on the description of the plane being in Wichita and Dennis being employed by an airline called Braniff at the time, it could only have been 1989.

Speaker 17 That's the only point in time during which Braniff Airlines operated at the Wichita Airport, and we had a president named Bush.

Speaker 17 Whether Dennis actually pissed on Air Force One is anybody's guess.

Speaker 17 But I don't doubt that he told people he did.

Speaker 17 He wrote in his own Klan newsletter in 1991 that he'd urinated on a memorial to Holocaust victims when he visited a concentration camp in Germany.

Speaker 17 And other important dates in his brother's life are similarly confused in Daniel's testimony. We know Dennis himself has said that his racial awakening was in Florida in May of 1980.

Speaker 17 When Matthew Kennard interviewed him for his book about white supremacist in the military, he was very clear that his National Guard unit had been deployed that month to assist in transporting Cuban asylum seekers to processing and detention centers.

Speaker 17 But that wasn't the only thing going on in Miami in May of 1980.

Speaker 17 Dennis' unit was deployed on May 3rd. We know that.

Speaker 17 But two weeks later, the National Guard was deployed again, this time to put down the Miami riots.

Speaker 17 I think sometimes this pair of events gets muddled together. It certainly did for Daniel.

Speaker 17 But the riots had very little to do with the thousands of Cubans arriving by boat.

Speaker 17 On May 17th, 1980, an all-white male jury returned not guilty verdicts for all four of the Miami police officers who had beaten Arthur McDuffie to death a year earlier.

Speaker 17 McDuffie had been a United States Marine, but more importantly, in the eyes of the officers who shattered his skull, he was a 33-year-old black man.

Speaker 17 Three days of rioting followed the verdict.

Speaker 17 18 people died.

Speaker 17 On the second day of the riot, the National Guard was sent in.

Speaker 17 I honestly couldn't tell you if the units deployed to transport Cuban asylum seekers starting on May 3rd were the same men deployed to the riots on May 18th. I can't find any specifics about that.

Speaker 17 I know the National Guard was transporting those people for a longer period of time than that, but I don't... I don't know.

Speaker 17 Dennis never mentioned the riots, though. when he spoke to Kennard about that time in his life.

Speaker 17 But Daniel is adamant that it was the Miami riots that changed his brother that month, describing him as having been right in the thick of it and that it was a pretty bloody situation.

Speaker 17 He's mistaken about the dates again. He says it was May 3rd and he says 18 people died the first night.

Speaker 17 But he's so specific about it.

Speaker 17 He says that Dennis had to use his rifle on a civilian and that the police officer next to him had a heart attack and died.

Speaker 17 A Miami Police Department after action report confirms at least some of this is based in fact.

Speaker 17 On the afternoon of the second day of the riots, so May 18th, Miami Police Officer Lieutenant Edward McDermott was escorting National Guard troops when he suffered a massive heart attack and died.

Speaker 17 The report doesn't include any mention of National Guardsmen firing their weapons. It only outlines the occasions on which Miami police officers did.

Speaker 17 But that's because the report is by the Miami Police Department. I think any information about whether guardsmen had fired their weapons would be in a report by the National Guard.

Speaker 17 I was unable to confirm whether or not any National Guardsmen shot a civilian during the riots.

Speaker 17 But ultimately, I think what happened here is that Daniel thought he was telling the truth. And it was Dennis who lied to his brother.

Speaker 17 Because telling people that you became racist because you killed a man in a race riot sounds more impressive than the truth, which is that he was a glorified bus driver for a week and he hates the sound of people speaking Spanish.

Speaker 17 But back on the subject of his own life.

Speaker 17 Daniel says he doesn't still have the Turner Diaries t-shirt that he wore to that meeting because his lady friend threw it away.

Speaker 17 He says her name is Lisa, but he can't give her last name because she's married. He's told that he can say it off the record, but he does need to provide it to the court.

Speaker 17 And then he backtracks. Actually, there is no Lisa.
Her name is Millie, and she's not married, but she has a boyfriend. And they are having an affair, actually.
There's no relationship.

Speaker 17 She's just a little old lady who lives next door, and sometimes he helps her out with repairs. Really, she's more like a mother to him.

Speaker 17 Now, Millie does exist.

Speaker 17 Lisa might exist too, but Millie definitely does. Because I tracked down the property records for every house on the block the Mahon brothers were living on in 1999.

Speaker 17 And a woman named Mildred lived three houses down from them.

Speaker 17 She was about 20 years their senior back then, so the like a mother comment kind of tracks.

Speaker 17 But I don't think she was in his bedroom throwing away his t-shirts. This isn't a misremembered date or a slip of the tongue.

Speaker 17 There's no rational explanation for saying, my secret married girlfriend, Lisa, if there is no Lisa and you aren't having an affair and you actually meant your elderly neighbor Mildred who is like a mother to you.

Speaker 17 He also claimed that he'd never even read the Turner Diaries before he wore that shirt to work in 1999, so he couldn't have been sending any kind of message related to the content of the book because he didn't know what the book was about.

Speaker 17 And he only wore the shirt that day at all because it was the only clean shirt he could find that morning.

Speaker 17 And he swears he had no idea when he got dressed that morning that there would be a meeting that day with management about his pamphlets. And he certainly didn't know it was Hitler's birthday.

Speaker 17 I can't prove that's not true, but it feels untrue in my heart.

Speaker 17 It also struck me as odd that a man who claims to have no real knowledge of or involvement in the movement, who never even read the book and doesn't even really know what National Alliance is,

Speaker 17 consistently refers to William Luther Pierce as Dr. Pierce.

Speaker 17 Now that's technically correct. He had a PhD.
He was a physicist.

Speaker 17 And I often notice that I do the same thing. I call him Dr.
Pierce.

Speaker 17 And that's because most of the material I consume about him was written by his acolytes. Those are the people who call him Dr.
Pierce.

Speaker 17 But Daniel says he never met Dr. Pierce, but his brother did once, sometime in the mid-80s.

Speaker 17 And if that's true, that means Dennis Mahon had contact with William Luther Pierce during his underground years, the years he claims he was conducting a series of bombings.

Speaker 17 There were more than a few times during that nine-hour deposition that his mask slips a little.

Speaker 17 He tries to maintain this righteous indignation at the implication that he knows anything about the world his brother lives in. You know, he loves his brother, but they don't share the same views.

Speaker 17 He doesn't know anything about that stuff.

Speaker 17 But when the attorney says that Dennis used to be a grand wizard in the clan, Daniel's quick to correct him. It's an imperial wizard, not a grand wizard.

Speaker 17 And when he's asked about the people he chose to feature on his Caucasian Aviators pamphlet, he corrects the record and says,

Speaker 17 actually,

Speaker 17 they aren't all white, because

Speaker 17 Aline Dutreux is, quote, mixed Mediterranean and French. She's not what you would call Aryan or a totally white person.

Speaker 17 I tried to track down this woman's genealogy. She appears to be thoroughly Flemish.
So I don't know what he's talking about here, but regardless of the possible Mediterranean blood,

Speaker 17 that is a level of race science that just isn't going to come out of the mouth of a normal person.

Speaker 17 Daniel's lawsuit bounced around the courts for five years.

Speaker 17 He was dismissed in 2001, just six months after they filed it. So they appealed to the 10th Circuit and it was dismissed again.

Speaker 17 A later decision partially reversed the dismissal in 2003, and so it was remanded back to the lower court judge, who again dismissed the case in 2004. So they filed a second appeal in 2004.

Speaker 17 And so in the months between this deposition in late 2003 and when they filed the second appeal in 2004,

Speaker 17 that's the time period during which Dennis Mahon is building a bomb and mailing it to the diversity office in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Speaker 17 And by the time the case was finally dismissed for good in 2005, the Mahon brothers were already very close friends with the ATF informant who'd been assigned to get them to confess to the bombing.

Speaker 17 When Daniel filed for bankruptcy in 2006, His petition shows he was still working as an aircraft mechanic, but he seemed to be having trouble keeping a job for very long because he lists five different employers from 2004 to 2006.

Speaker 17 I don't know why I had it in my head that this was going to be a quick, easy episode to shake off the holiday haze. I thought I'd be in and out summarizing a silly little lawsuit.

Speaker 17 But even my side stories have side stories, and I spent way too long reading white power magazines from the 90s.

Speaker 17 I'll have to save some of the odd tidbits that I passed over for another time.

Speaker 17 It turns out the tangent I had to break out into its own episode has tangents that might need their own episodes.

Speaker 17 Daniel Mahon's attorney Robert Frazier was disbarred in 2008.

Speaker 17 He was allowed to resign from the bar during an ongoing investigation into several grievances. Two of them were pretty standard.

Speaker 17 He accepted payment from clients and then failed to render any services. Unethical, but not crazy.
The third one was kind of troubling.

Speaker 17 He was representing a mother in a child abuse case, and he concealed the fact that he was, at the time, living in his client's home, which made him a material witness to the alleged child abuse.

Speaker 17 He was never charged with perjury, but the judge in that case pretty unequivocally stated on the record that Frazier perjured himself when he was asked directly about this.

Speaker 17 I know it's a little different in every jurisdiction, but I was surprised that Frazier was only disbarred in 2008.

Speaker 17 Because by then, he had three convictions for domestic violence, one for simple assault, he served time for contempt after walking out of a hearing during a paternity lawsuit, and he was convicted of a felony for registering to vote immediately after being convicted of felonied domestic violence.

Speaker 17 Most states would have had his barcard after the first felony. Surely after the second one, right?

Speaker 17 And the timeline on this is kind of incredible.

Speaker 17 Frazier showed up to oral argument at the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Daniel's case just days after bonding out of the Tulsa County jail for beating his wife.

Speaker 17 I'd also sketched out a section in my notes to talk about a lawsuit that this story really reminded me of, a much more recent one.

Speaker 17 But I'm already running way too long and I'll have to save that 2002 lawsuit filed by an aircraft mechanic who said United Airlines fired him for being white for another time.

Speaker 17 Not to spoil it, but he also did not get fired for being white. It had a lot more to do with his habit of referring to a black co-worker using the N-word.

Speaker 17 So he didn't win that lawsuit, obviously. And his appeal ended up getting dismissed because the white supremacist lawyer he hired forgot to file it.

Speaker 17 Now, in his defense, he was very busy at the time. He had just been charged with a felony.
And unlike Robert Frazier, he practices law in a state that does disbar attorneys after their first felony.

Speaker 17 But funny enough, he doesn't seem to have reported that to the Bar Association yet. But again, a story for another day, because that one's not over yet.

Speaker 17 And as for those Turner Diaries t-shirts, I'm sure hundreds of people bought one out of Nazi magazines or off a table at a gun show.

Speaker 17 They sold them for years.

Speaker 17 But the only other story I could turn up about a guy getting himself into hot water after wearing one in public was a Navy SEAL.

Speaker 17 That man has since changed his name and made quite a career for himself as a relationship coach, offering dating advice to his nearly half a million followers who probably have no idea who used to be Matt Hale's webmaster.

Speaker 17 After all, that was a long time ago. Back before Matt Hale went to prison for soliciting the murder of a federal judge.

Speaker 17 Rear Little Guys is a production of CoolZone Media and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written, and recorded by me, Molly Conger.

Speaker 17 Special thanks this week goes to Wikipedia editor Tulsa Tulsa PoliticsFan.

Speaker 17 I thought I was losing my mind when I googled the subject of the show and I saw that the record had been updated to reflect my ongoing research.

Speaker 17 Our executive producers are Sophie Litcherman and Robert Evans. The show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan.
The theme music was composed by Brad Dickert.

Speaker 17 You can email me at WeirdLittleGuyspodcast at gmail.com. I will definitely read it, but I won't answer it.
It's nothing personal.

Speaker 17 You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit.

Speaker 17 Just don't post anything that's going to make you one of my weird little guys.

Speaker 2 This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something.

Speaker 6 Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity?

Speaker 3 They may be happening to you without you knowing.

Speaker 4 If anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability, and concentration issues, it may be due to OSA.

Speaker 9 OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation.

Speaker 12 Learn more at don'tsleep on osa.com.

Speaker 13 This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

Speaker 27 Honestly, honestly, honestly, no one wants to think about HIV, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like PrEP.

Speaker 27 PrEP stands for Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it.

Speaker 27 PrEP can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices.

Speaker 18 Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more. Sponsored by Gilead.

Speaker 15 The busiest time of the year? It's here. Between parties, shopping, and decorating.
Who has time? With Airtasker, you can get anything done.

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Airtasker, get anything done.

Speaker 28 What's up, everyone? This is Angel, Diego, and Jason, and we're a gusto baba podcast. Siemporciento, música regional mexicana, proves a queotro chisme.

Speaker 28 Holiday season's here, and the studio is feeling festive. We got the tracks, the exclusives, yes, it's bright winter spice cranberry bien frio.
That refreshing cranberry flavor, it's just right.

Speaker 28 A seasonal favorite, but limited time only. So don't sleep on it to keep your fiestas festive adarle.
Flow frio, con spray winter spiced cranberry.

Speaker 18 Obey your thirst.

Speaker 17 She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard.

Speaker 17 But then we found out she had something called agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficulty.
So we asked her doctor for more help.

Speaker 26 Seeing symptoms like these in a loved one, it could be time to ask their doctor about Rexulti, Rexpiprazole 2 milligrams, the only FDA-approved treatment proven to reduce the symptoms of this condition.

Speaker 26 Rexulti should not be used as an as-needed treatment. Elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke.

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Speaker 26 Weight gain, increased cholesterol, unusual urges, dizziness on standing, falls, seizures, trouble swallowing, or sleepiness may occur.

Speaker 26 Learn Learn more about these and other side effects at RickSulty.com. Tap Ad for PI.

Speaker 17 I'm glad her doctor recommended Rick Sulti.

Speaker 26 Talk to your loved ones, doctor. Moments matter.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.