Arrested Democracy, Pt .1

This is an iHeart podcast.

Time for a sofa upgrade?

Visit washable sofas.com and discover AniBay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices.

With sofas starting at $699, Anibay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly.

Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out.

Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid liquid and stain-resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy.

Liquid simply slides right off.

Designed for custom comfort, our high-resilience foam lets you choose between a sink-in feel or a supportive memory foam blend.

Plus, our pet-friendly stain-resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years.

Don't compromise quality for price.

Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee.

Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns.

Shop now at washable sofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

What does Zinn give you?

Not just smoke-free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom.

Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards.

With Zin Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech, outdoor gear, and gift cards to your favorite retailers.

Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your lifestyle at zinn.com slash rewards.

Warning, this product contains nicotine.

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World.

Okay, so Amazon Prime is the easiest and fastest way to get anything delivered, but there's so much more.

Whatever you love, that's what Prime is.

Prime helps you get more out of your passions and even discover new ones.

My kids have recently gotten to the age where we can no longer hide video games from them.

I know, Pandora's box has opened.

Well, with Prime, I not only get the games they want fast and easy, I get suggestions for what other games might be perfect for them.

And with access to Prime Gaming, there are free PC games every month just waiting for them.

From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime.

Visit amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into.

I'm a kid, so am I gonna surprise you with a poster board I need for the science fair tomorrow?

Probably.

But can you get up to 40% off back to school centrals on Uber Eats?

Definitely.

So order on Uber Eats and get up to 40% off.

Exclusions may apply.

Check out for availability.

Kevin and Rachel and peanut MMs and an eight-hour road trip.

And Rachel's new favorite audiobook, The Cerulean Empress, Scoundrels Inferno.

And Florian, the reckless yet charming scoundrel from said audiobook.

And his pecs glistened in the moonlight.

And Kevin, feeling weird because of all the talk about pecs.

And Rachel handing him peanut MMs to keep him quiet.

Uh, Kevin, I can't hear.

Yellow, we're keeping it PG-13.

M ⁇ Ms, it's more fun together.

Call Zone Media.

On April 1st, 2010, retired Navy Lieutenant Commander Walter Francis Fitzpatrick III walked into the Monroe County Courthouse in Madisonville, Tennessee.

That was no surprise to anyone in Madisonville.

Fitzpatrick had become a frequent visitor to this courthouse in a small town in the foothills of the Great Great Smoky Mountains.

A year earlier, in March of 2009, he asked a Monroe County grand jury to indict President Barack Obama on charges of treason.

The grand jury declined to do so.

In the year that followed, he had been a regular fixture in the county court clerk's office, demanding information about the county's jury selection process.

After the grand jury's refusal to accept his presentation of evidence against Barack Obama, he could only conclude that the process itself was deeply corrupt and sinister forces were conspiring against him to suppress the truth.

That Barack Hussein Obama was not the rightful president of the United States.

That he was born in Kenya, that he had rigged the 2008 election, and he was guilty of high treason.

Walter Fitzpatrick was more than prepared to put Barack Obama on trial, but now he believed the whole damn damn system was guilty, and he wasn't going to let them get away with it.

He just needed some backup.

I'm Molly Conger, and this is Weird Little Guys.

As I'm writing this, it's a few days after the 2024 presidential election.

Every election has winners and losers, and not everybody is happy with the results.

It's probably no surprise to you that I count myself among those of us who aren't thrilled with the results this time around.

But sometimes disappointment, dread, and dissatisfaction aren't enough.

For some people, an undesirable election outcome is simply unacceptable.

Literally, they can't accept it.

It can't be true and it can't be allowed to stand.

As with my Halloween episode, I'm a little behind the curve here in terms of seasonal content.

At this rate, I'll be doing a Christmas special on Groundhog's Day.

But elections and weird little guys go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Well, no, no, that's not true.

You do find them together often, but they don't usually mix well.

So maybe it's more like oil and water.

Neither of those analogies are really giving me what I want.

In my personal experience, right-wing extremists and election results go together like Blue Gatorade and raw onions.

When I covered the January 6th riot at the Capitol in 2021, those were the two things I saw people pulling out of their backpacks the most.

I think some right-wing influencer convinced a lot of people who'd never been to a riot before that you should carry a raw white onion cut in half in a Ziploc baggie because rubbing it on your face is a homeopathic remedy for tear gas.

Just a heads up, that is not true.

Do not do that.

Do not rub a raw onion on your eyeballs at any time.

And definitely don't do it after exposure to a chemical irritant.

And if you can only pack one thing to drink in a situation like that, make it water, or else you'll be washing pepper spray and onion juice out of your eyes with Gatorade, which doctors do not recommend.

That's just some free advice for you.

But I thought it would make perfect sense to do some kind of election-themed weird little guy.

And to be honest, I'm bored of January 6th stories.

stories.

I'm sure I'll get to some of them on this show eventually.

There were some guys there who were very strange guys even before they were trying to stop the steal.

And if the guy they were fighting for that day follows through on his promise to pardon them all, some of them will make their way back into the news one way or another.

whether that's running for office or building a bomb.

But right now, today,

I'm sick of thinking about the 2020 election results because I'm sick of thinking about the 2024 election results.

And the 2020 election was not the first time right-wing extremists couldn't accept the results.

So come with me to the distant past, 2008.

I voted for president for the first time that year, making me one of nearly 70 million Americans who cast a ballot for Barack Obama.

He won handily, beating John McCain by more than 7% in the popular vote and pulling in 365 electoral votes to McCain's 173.

Barack Obama was promising hope, change, and health care.

John McCain was burdened by George W.

Bush's rock bottom approval ratings and his support for Bush's now increasingly unpopular war in Iraq.

It seemed like a new day had dawned.

We were all going to get health care and we had finally elected our first black president.

Of course, not everyone was on board.

We'd had more than two centuries of white men named James, John, William, and George.

Literally, of the 42 presidents before Obama, 18 of them were named James, John, William, or George.

About 40% of the total presidential time until 2008 was under a guy with one of those four names.

We elected two different guys named Franklin.

We hadn't really been getting a lot of variety.

Conspiracy theories about Barack Obama's race, religion, and place of birth are creatures of racism, pure and simple.

There's no talking your way around that fact.

He has a foreign-sounding name and he is not white.

There was a lot of anxiety that someone who didn't look like the American presidents we'd had before couldn't possibly have the same American values.

During the primary, Mark Penn, a senior campaign strategist for Hillary Clinton, wrote a memo suggesting that they should highlight the fact that Obama spent some of his childhood in Indonesia while emphasizing Clinton's Midwest roots, writing,

His roots and basic American values and culture are at best limited.

I cannot imagine electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.

The Clinton campaign didn't end up going with this strategy, but the memo got out.

And this idea that Barack Obama was un-American bled into a conspiracy theory that he was not American at all.

and had in fact been born in Kenya.

During the 2008 election season, surveys showed that as many as a third of Republican voters believed there may be some truth to the idea that Barack Obama was born outside of the United States.

An analysis published in the Journal of Race, Ethnicity, and Politics in 2019 acknowledged that, yes, the best predictor of believing in any conspiracy theory is a pre-existing belief in any other conspiracy theory.

People who are prone to believing unsubstantiated claims often believe many of them.

But while there are certainly people of all political orientations who are willing to entertain the theory, the study found that belief in this particular conspiracy theory was uniquely correlated to the believer's own race, party affiliation, and most importantly, their level of racial resentment toward African Americans.

So to be clear, there are multiple studies published in journals across a range of disciplines over the course of nearly 20 years that have found measurable correlations here.

The people who trafficked in birtherism were white Republicans with a measurable level of racial animus.

This was never about getting to the truth.

It was an intense fear of a black president.

In June of 2008, just days after Hillary Clinton conceded the primary and Obama was the presumptive nominee, his campaign released a copy of his birth certificate, showing he had, in fact, been born in Hawaii.

But you can't kill a conspiracy with facts.

That's never worked.

And confronted with what should have been the final answer to the question,

birthers just doubled down.

The birth certificate was simply fake.

This only fueled the fire.

And in August of 2008, the first of countless lawsuits was filed.

And oddly enough, we've already talked about this particular lawsuit on this show, in the first episode about the Pennsylvania Klansman Barry Black.

Philip Berg's lawsuit alleged that Obama had been born in Kenya.

And this relied on a sworn affidavit written by Ron McRae about a phone call that he had had with Barack Obama's father's stepmother through a translator.

Ron McRae was the homophobic street preacher who spent years harassing the owners of the Casanova Lounge, a gay bar in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, that was located across the street from a farm owned by some Klansmen.

Berg's lawsuit was dismissed, and the judge called it frivolous and not worthy of discussion, which is true.

But that became the playbook.

Birthers around the country filed frivolous and baffling lawsuits.

They filed them in federal courthouses, county circuit courts, state supreme courts, the Board of Immigration Appeals, state boards of election, state administrative courts.

They filed complaints and requests for injunctions and petitions anywhere they could find a bureaucrat sitting at a desk.

For just the years 2008 through 2012, I found over 200 complaints in various forms forms filed with every kind of court you can imagine and some kinds of courts I've never heard of.

And they lost every single one.

They seemed convinced that they could find the right collection of words, the right legal incantation that, if presented to the right judge and the right jury, would wake America from this national nightmare of an Obama presidency.

But the lawsuits weren't working.

Judge after judge sent them packing.

In most cases, they didn't even get a hearing.

They were submitting complaints that had absolutely no legal basis to proceed, no basis in reality, even.

And in the cases that did get a foot in the door, they were submitting forged documents and relying on already debunked claims.

Lawyers were sanctioned, fines were levied, and suit after suit was dismissed.

But undeterred, the birthers found a new way forward.

If they couldn't get justice through civil suits, they would simply have to have the president of the United States arrested.

In June of 2009, 172 extremely devoted conspiracy theorists convened.

They called themselves the Super American Grand Jury.

Now, that's not a real thing.

Grand juries are real, of course.

We don't need to get bogged down in the specifics because they vary from state to state.

But generally speaking, a grand jury is a group of citizens convened by a court and tasked with issuing indictments.

So a prosecutor will briefly summarize a case, they'll put on a little bit of evidence, maybe some witnesses, and the the grand jurors will decide if there's probable cause to believe a crime has been committed by the individual the prosecutor is seeking to indict.

They aren't deciding if anyone is innocent or guilty, they're not trying the case, it's a much lower standard here.

They're just deciding: is this something that should proceed as a case at all?

You've probably heard the saying, you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

It's a pretty low bar to clear at this stage.

But we're not here to talk about real grand juries because that barely factors into the story at all.

I just want to be clear that grand juries are real, they do exist, and this was not one.

A grand jury is made up of grand jurors who have received an official summons from a real court.

And they are presented real potential cases by a real prosecutor and they make real determinations about which cases get indictments.

There are six states that allow citizen-initiated grand juries.

In Oklahoma, Nevada, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, and North Dakota, there is a process through which you can collect enough signatures on a petition to force a judge to convene a grand jury to investigate an alleged crime.

That's not what this was either.

They didn't have a petition they submitted to a court.

They didn't do it in any of those states.

I'm just saying avenues do exist.

And in some states, like California, you can submit a written complaint to request a grand jury investigation into a criminal allegation, but they're under no obligation to follow up.

And in Tennessee, a fact that is about to become very relevant, state law allows any citizen to apply to testify before a county grand jury about an alleged offense that is prosecutable in that county.

But the idea of a citizen's grand jury like the Super American Grand Jury is not something these particular extremists invented.

In their modern iteration, most of these citizens grand jury groups were trying to arrest Barack Obama for various invented crimes.

But they also popped up in the early 2000s among 9-11 truthers who wanted to arrest George Bush.

During the Malher National Wildlife Refuge occupation a few years back, militia members who supported the Bundy family convened fake grand juries to indict local officials and even some reporters whose coverage they found lacking.

Conspiracy theory frequent flyer Larry Klayman has not only indicted Joe Biden with a fake grand jury, he even convicted him.

But according to Daniel Levitas, the author of The Terrorist Next Door, a 2004 book on the American militia movement, These citizen grand juries actually date back to the 1970s with Christian identity extremists.

Christian identity has come up before.

We talked about it briefly in the episode about Christopher Hassen, the Coast Guard lieutenant who was stockpiling guns and planning to assassinate the Supreme Court, but was too addicted to opiates to make much progress.

He'd spend some time researching Christian identity online before writing to a longtime white nationalist leader named Harold Covington about his plans to make changes to society with, quote, a little focused violence.

And Christian identity kind of sounds like it might mean someone whose identity is Christian, right?

It's just someone who considers themselves to be a Christian.

But that's not what it means at all.

It refers to a specific set of extremist beliefs that white Europeans are God's true chosen people.

It is a deeply anti-Semitic belief system and one whose followers are often very willing to engage in violence.

The earliest example Levitas cites of a written threat to bring a citizen's grand jury indictment is a tax protester in Michigan in 1972 who threatened to indict local authorities trying to enforce a court order.

And in 1975, Richard Butler, another weird little guy's recurring character, led a group of 50 followers to try to arrest a policeman in Curtaline, Idaho, before the officer could testify against a member of the group who'd been charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

Richard Butler wasn't leading the Aryan nations yet at that point, but he was already a prominent figure within Christian identity.

There's nothing like sinking into luxury.

At washable sofas.com, you'll find the Anabay sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price.

And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom, starting at only $699.

The stain-resistant performance fabric slip covers and cloud-like frame duvet can go straight into your wash.

Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa.

With a modular design and changeable slip covers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style.

Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anibay has you covered.

Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home.

Right now, you can shop up to 60% off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee.

Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Add a little

to your life.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Every business has an ambition.

PayPal Open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide.

And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, Pay Later, and all major cards so you can focus on scaling up.

When it's time to get growing, there's one platform for all business, PayPal Open.

Grow today at PayPalOpen.com.

Loan subject to approval in available locations.

Who knew you could get all your favorite summer fruits and veggies in as fast as an hour with Walmart Express delivery?

Crisp peppers, juicy peaches, crunchy cucumbers, and more at the same low prices you'd find in store.

And freshness is guaranteed.

If you don't love our produce, contact us for a full refund.

You're definitely going to need a bigger salad bowl.

Order now in the app.

The Walmart you thought you knew is now new.

Subject to availability, fees, and restrictions apply.

This is Jonas Knox from 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, and on Fox One now, you can stream your favorite live sports so you can be there live for the biggest moments.

That means NFL Sundays, college football games, NASCAR, MLB postseason, and more.

With Fox One, you'll get it all live.

Edge of your seat plays, jaw-dropping, high-octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action.

Fox One, we live for live, streaming now.

Deborah had to have surgery.

I had hip surgery in November of 2024.

Her United Healthcare nurse, Crystal, checked on her.

We'd do a routine call after surgery, and I could tell that she was struggling.

Deborah needed help.

My infection markers were through the roof.

And Crystal knew what to do.

I called the hospital and said she's coming in and got Deborah the help she needed.

Crystal and United Healthcare saved my life.

Hear more stories like Deborah's at uhc.com.

Benefits, features, and/or devices vary by plant area.

Limitation and exclusions apply.

So the super American grand jury had deep roots in dark places.

And it was not so super and not a grand jury at all.

It was just a collection of conspiracists who wrote their own indictment against the president.

And then they went to a federal courthouse in Washington, D.C.

and filed it.

Judge Royce Lamberth promptly dismissed them.

I guess maybe dismiss is a tricky word to use here because a real indictment can be dismissed by a judge, and that's not what happened here because this was not a real indictment.

What Judge Lamberth actually did was issue an order denying them permission to have even filed it at all, writing, any self-styled indictment or presentment issued by such a group has no force under the Constitution or laws of the United States.

Judge Lamberth took senior status in 2013, meaning he's kind of retired but still working, so he is actually still a federal judge in D.C.

today and has presided over quite a few of the January 6th cases, most notably the trial of the QAnon shaman, Jacob Chansley.

In 2023, 14 years after he kicked those berthers out of his court for trying to arrest the president, he was dismayed to see Republican politicians trafficking in rhetoric that downplayed the events of January 6th, writing in a court filing in one of those cases,

The court is accustomed to defendants who refuse to accept that they did anything wrong.

But in my 37 years on the bench, I cannot recall a time when such meritless justifications of criminal activity have gone mainstream.

I have been dismayed to see distortions and outright falsehoods seep into the public consciousness.

I have been shocked to watch some public figures try to rewrite history, claiming rioters behaved in an orderly fashion like ordinary tourists, or martyrizing convicted January 6th defendants as political prisoners or even, incredibly, hostages.

That is all preposterous.

The court fears that such destructive, misguided rhetoric could presage further danger to our country.

So the Super American grand jury's first indictment didn't work.

But that didn't stop them.

That's sort of a theme here.

Nothing really seems to deter them.

One of those Super super-American grand jurors was a Georgia man named Carl Swenson.

Swenson is a very special kind of conspiracy theorist called a sovereign citizen.

It's a strange and complicated set of beliefs that I can't really do justice in the time we have for this story, but it's a kind of legal magical thinking.

There's a lot of crossover between sovereign citizens and other kinds of conspiratorial belief and a not insignificant amount of sovereign citizen belief within the militia movement.

And sovereign citizens generally believe that there are certain secret procedural loopholes that they can use to avoid being subject to the law.

Anything from traffic stops to income taxes.

To be honest, it's almost always traffic stops and income taxes.

You've probably heard jokes about a guy in a courtroom proclaiming that the judge has no authority over him because there's gold fringe on the flag in the courtroom and that means that admiralty law is in effect.

Or maybe you've heard of someone being pulled over and refusing to produce a driver's license, arguing with the cop that they don't need a driver's license because they're not driving, they're traveling and it's different.

I've only seen one in court in real life and it was a young woman appealing a conviction for driving without a license.

She just kept yelling at the judge, I do not contract with the Department of Motor Vehicles.

It did not work.

She was unsuccessful in that appeal.

A month after Judge Lamberth told the super American grand jury that they couldn't just make their own grand jury, Carl Swenson and a few of the others submitted a new case to the court.

If they couldn't be their own grand jury, then the court should convene one for them.

Judge Lamberth once again declined, explaining that that a general grievance about the government doesn't give them standing to file this complaint.

There was some kind of procedural mishap in the court clerk's office, though, and the docket was left open by accident.

This normally wouldn't matter at all.

No lawyer would keep filing motions at a closed case.

But they did not have lawyers, and one of Swenson's co-petitioners, Penny Kelso, filed a bizarre seven-page document four years later demanding that the judge take action.

It has a lot of prayers in it and links to blogs and random excerpts from the Constitution and the last page is just illegible handwritten notes and I can kind of make out something about Benghazi.

And she signed this whole thing.

Penny Kelso,

DVM.

Which is technically true.

Penny Kelso does have a doctorate of veterinary medicine.

But the Texas Board of Veterinary Medical Examiners has suspended her license half a dozen times for things like botching a C-section on someone's dog, duct taping bandages to animals in a way that caused harm, improperly confining animals in a kennel, and falsifying records related to mandatory continuing education hours.

Penny doesn't actually come up again in this story.

She's not really relevant here.

I just wanted to make sure you know that at least one person involved in this whole situation has killed a puppy.

So they couldn't sue the president.

They couldn't issue their own federal indictment.

They couldn't make a judge convene a federal grand jury.

But they had incontrovertible proof that Barack Obama could not be the president.

And it was their duty as Americans to have him arrested.

If this false president's collaborators in Washington, D.C.

wouldn't heed their demands, maybe a grand jury foreman in a small town in rural Tennessee would.

Sweetwater, Tennessee is a small town straddling the line between McMinn and Monroe counties.

A bit of geography that explains why Sweetwater resident Walter Fitzpatrick would eventually go to jail for trying to perform citizens' arrests on courthouse employees in both counties.

In March of 2009, he drafted his own indictment against Barack Obama.

He went down to the county courthouse and notarized the following letter.

I have observed and extensively recorded treacherous attacks by military political aristocrats against the United States Constitution for 20 years.

Now, in yet another betrayal, you have broken in and entered the White House by force of contrivance, concealment, conceit, dissembling, and deceit.

Posing as an imposter president and commander-in-chief, you have stripped civilian command and control over the military establishment.

Known military criminal actors, command racketeers, are now free in the exercise of military government intent upon destruction of America's constitutional government.

Free from constitutional restraint and following your criminal example, military commanders deployed U.S.

Army active duty combat troops into the small civilian community of Samson, Alabama last week in a demonstration of their newly received despotic domestic police power.

We come now to this reckoning.

I accuse you and your military political criminal assistants of treason.

I name you and your military criminal associates as traitors.

Your criminal ascension manifests as clear and present danger.

You fundamentally changed our form of government.

The Constitution no longer works.

Confident in holding your silent agreement and admission, I identify you as a foreign-born domestic enemy.

My sworn duty, Mr.

Obama, is to stand against what you stand for.

You are not my president.

You are not my commander-in-chief.

Obedient to the Constitution and submission of this criminal accusation, I remain steadfast and born fighting, Walter Francis Fitzpatrick III.

There's a lot going on there.

You probably have some questions about Walter's claims.

We'll take them one at a time.

The 20 years of experience fighting the treacherous attacks on the Constitution by the military political aristocrats?

Well, that's about how long he's been writing a blog.

He started his blog, Jag Hunters, after he was pushed out of the Navy.

Fitzpatrick was allowed to serve out his 19 and a half years, rounding up to 20, so he could receive his pension.

But his last four years in the Navy were humiliating.

He was convicted in a court-martial in 1990 for improperly accounting for the morale, welfare, and recreation funds for the sailors aboard the USS Mars, of which he was the executive officer at the time.

He was found not guilty on charges of stealing $2,800,

misappropriating another $10,400,

and improper use of a government vehicle.

And his only sentence was a reprimand.

All things considered, it could have been worse.

He was basically convicted of bad record keeping and given a talking to.

He didn't have to go to the brig.

He didn't get kicked out or demoted or lose his pension or any of his access to veterans benefits.

He served out his 20 years and retired and collected a pension.

But he spent four years sitting at a desk.

He was passed over for promotions.

He was humiliated and angry.

And he stayed angry at the government for a very long time.

Sometimes I get a little lost in the weeds.

When I started writing this week's episode, it was supposed to be about a guy guy we haven't gotten to yet and aren't really going to get to today.

But when you start pulling the narrative threads and looking for the beginning of the story, there's always more beginnings than you think.

It's probably more than enough backstory on Walter Fitzpatrick to say that his distrust of the government comes from his decades-long, deeply held belief that he was a victim of a grave injustice at this 1990 court-martial.

But as as I spend more and more time really getting to know each of these weird little guys,

patterns start to emerge.

And I think Walter Fitzpatrick fits into the Frank Sweeney archetype.

I did two episodes a while back about a lifelong con man named Frank Sweeney.

He got into all sorts of hijinks and crossed paths with all kinds of people, going to federal prison half a dozen times for various frauds and threats.

But the one thing that connected everything in Frank's life was an overwhelming sense of personal grievance.

He had been wronged.

He had been wronged and the only way to make it right was to make that lust for vengeance the sole focus of his life, no matter where that path took him, until he felt satisfied.

For Frank, That meant spending several years writing threatening postcards to a stranger who made a passing comment about where he was parked at the post office.

And I see echoes of that same mindset here.

In 1994, Fitzpatrick had successfully recruited his congressman, Norm Dix, as an advocate on his behalf.

And Congressman Dix wrote several letters to the Navy advocating for a new trial for Fitzpatrick.

He did his best as an elective representative to help a constituent seek redress through the proper channels.

And it was ultimately unsuccessful.

Fitzpatrick continued communicating with Norm Dix and later Congressman Adam Smith throughout the 90s and early 2000s, badgering their staff regularly and demanding his decade-old case be revisited.

There wasn't really much anyone could do, but both representatives met with him and heard his complaints and did what they could.

In 2002, Fitzpatrick was banned from Congressman Smith's Tacoma offices.

It's unclear what led to the ban, but a letter filed with the court said that they would continue to serve him as a constituent, but he was only allowed to communicate with the congressman or his staff by letter.

And in 2003, two female staffers in Norm Dix's office got restraining orders against Fitzpatrick.

In her petition to the court, one of those staffers wrote,

Over the past year, I have become increasingly aware that Mr.

Fitzpatrick's rage was building.

He had difficulty looking me in the eye, and he was so angry he often paced in our lobby.

He has no respect for the work we've done for him over the years.

The last straw was an incident in October of 2003.

when Fitzpatrick refused to leave the office and physically prevented the employee from leaving by blocking the door, forcing her to call the police.

Police reports show multiple violations of these restraining orders and several complaints, though no prosecutions for trespass, harassment, and domestic violence.

He was angry.

He had been wronged, and their inability to help him was unforgivable.

Fitzpatrick was coming into regular contact with the police in Kitsap County, Washington until he moved to Tennessee in 2007.

But back to Fitzpatrick's treason allegations.

You probably noticed that he only barely mentioned the president's citizenship.

I mean, it's in there.

Don't get me wrong.

He does call Obama a foreign-born enemy.

But that's pretty secondary here.

This indictment for treason isn't really about that.

This is a brand new tactic.

He's accusing the president of having violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

And

that did actually kind of happen.

Not in the way he's claiming, obviously.

Barack Obama did not violate the Posse Comitatus Act, but it's not a wholly fabricated allegation.

The Posse Comitatas Act dates back to the end of Reconstruction after the Civil War.

and it prohibits the use of the U.S.

military in civilian policing.

It doesn't apply to the National Guard under the direction of a state governor, and there are exceptions.

Federal troops can be deployed domestically in certain situations, like if the President invokes the Insurrection Act or if there is some kind of emergency involving nuclear materials or significant amounts of explosive ordnance that can't be safely dealt with otherwise.

But generally speaking, the United States military cannot engage in domestic civilian policing.

It's not something that comes up very often for normal people under normal circumstances.

You're probably never having conversations about the Posse Comitatus Act.

But it's a big boogeyman in anti-government movements.

And the allegation Fitzpatrick is making in this letter alludes to an actual incident.

On March 10th, 2009, Michael McClendon carried out what is still the deadliest mass shooting in the history of Alabama, killing 10 people, injuring six others, and ultimately taking his own life.

It wasn't political or ideological.

It wasn't racially motivated.

It's just a terrible, sad story about gun violence in America.

He was an angry young man with a gun and he made his problems everybody else's.

McClendon first drove to his mother's house in Kinston, Alabama, where he shot and killed her and then burned her house down.

Then he drove to his uncle's house in nearby Samson, Alabama, and shot his uncle, two cousins, and several of their neighbors.

Then he went to his grandmother's house and shot and killed her.

And as he fled the third crime scene, he was firing at random from his car window, shooting bystanders.

He killed a gas station attendant, a passing motorist, and injured several pedestrians.

When sheriff's deputies tried to run him off the road, he shot one of them too.

With more than a dozen people shot across three towns spanning two counties, law enforcement was stretched pretty thin.

There were multiple crime scenes, 10 dead bodies, half a dozen seriously injured survivors, including an infant, and the shooter was on the move.

And so someone at the Geneva County Sheriff's Office made a phone call to nearby Fort Rucker to ask for help.

The Army officer who responded to the request later said that he believed at the time that what he was doing was lawful, citing his own experience assisting in disaster response after Hurricane Katrina.

His intention was only to be what he called a good neighbor.

And for a period of about five hours that afternoon, several soldiers from Fort Rucker assisted local law enforcement at traffic checkpoints near the crime scenes and stood guard at the makeshift morgue that they'd set up to store the bodies.

And this was, in fact, a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

Soldiers from the United States Army should not have been participating in traffic checkpoints.

That is against the law.

And the officer who made that call was disciplined.

But it was a local mistake.

This wasn't something that was run up the chain of command all the way to the president.

This didn't go through the Pentagon.

They didn't convene the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

It was just someone from the Sheriff's Office made a phone call to a guy he knew at the Army base and they did something they didn't realize was wrong.

I won't claim to be familiar with the details of military chain of command or military law or anything, but I'm not sure the commander-in-chief can be charged with treason because one guy in Alabama accidentally broke the law.

But this actual violation of the Posse Comitatus Act was enough to send a certain kind of guy into hysterics.

I mean, look, I'm not making excuses for it.

Any kind of precedent for that sort of thing should be avoided.

The potential for abuse is extreme and terrifying.

But anti-government activists could finally point to a real thing that happened as proof that Barack Obama was about to institute martial law.

Federal troops really were setting up checkpoints.

It happened.

It's not a drill.

For someone like Walter Fitzpatrick, this was all the evidence he needed to have the president hanged for treason.

And that gets us back to where we started, this long journey back to the beginning of the story.

Walter Fitzpatrick accused the president of treason in March 2009.

He took his complaint down to the courthouse and he got it notarized.

He applied to present it to a Monroe County grand jury, and they chose not to indict the president.

Probably mostly because even if there was probable cause here, which there wasn't, the Monroe County, Tennessee Circuit Court does not have jurisdiction in a case involving the president of the United States committing treason, unfortunately.

But that's not how Fitzpatrick saw it.

In his mind, this could only mean that there is corruption afoot.

Life's messy.

We're talking spills, stains, pets, and kids.

But with Anibay, you never have to stress about messes again.

At washablesofas.com, discover Anibay Sofas, the only fully machine-washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699.

Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics.

That means fewer stains and more peace of mind.

Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime.

Need flexibility?

Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly.

Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes.

Plus, they're earth-friendly and built to last.

That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch.

Upgrade your space today.

Visit washable sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life.

That's washablesofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Every business has an ambition.

PayPal Open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide.

And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, Pay Later, and all major cards so you can focus on scaling scaling up.

When it's time to get growing, there's one platform for all business, PayPal Open.

Grow today at PayPalOpen.com.

Loan subject to approval in available locations.

Tired of doing the dinner dash?

Walmart delivers delicious, low-cost recipes with just a few clicks in the app.

Who knew?

Get crowd pleasers like creamy Tusk and chicken and easy beef and broccoli delivered in the time it usually takes you just to plan dinner.

And if you don't love our produce, contact us for a full refund.

Goodbye, Dinner Drama.

Hello, dinner at your door in as fast as an hour.

Find it all in the recipe hub.

The Walmart you thought you knew is now new.

Subject to availability, fees, and restrictions apply.

This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, and on Fox One, now you can stream your favorite live sports so you can be there live for the biggest moments.

That means NFL Sundays, college football games, NASCAR, MLB postseason, and more.

With Fox One, you'll get it all live.

Edge of your seat plays, jaw-dropping, high-octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action.

Fox One, we live for live, streaming now.

United Healthcare nurse Crystal checked in on a patient.

We do a routine call after surgery, and I could tell in her voice that she was struggling.

Crystal knew she needed help.

And I knew that this is very serious.

This is like septic.

This is life-threatening.

And she knew just what to do.

And I called the hospital and said she's coming in, here are her labs.

And got her the help she needed.

I see my role at United Healthcare as a life-saving role.

Hear more stories like crystals at UHC.com.

Bit of its features and/or devices vary by plan area.

Limitation and exclusions apply.

Again and again,

Walter Fitzpatrick made the trip to the county courthouse.

He harassed the court clerk.

He tried forcing his way into the grand jury proceedings to make his presentation again.

And they did hear him out once more.

They allowed him to present to the grand jury in December of 2009.

That grand jury again declined to indict President Barack Obama for treason.

And at this point, they were done humoring him.

Hearing this evidence again wasn't going to change anything.

He was on several occasions refused entrance into the courtroom while the grand jury was hearing real cases.

And just like those years he spent getting angrier and angrier at his congressman's office staff, these people were as helpful as they were required to be.

They were doing their jobs, but there wasn't really anything they could do that would satisfy him because his requests weren't reasonable.

They couldn't give him what he wanted.

But in his mind, this inability to assist him could only mean that they were actively fighting against him.

And so they too became subjects of his investigations.

They were all guilty now of obstruction of justice, and they too must be arrested.

In March of 2010, a year after he first charged the president with treason, Walter Fitzpatrick sent a letter to the police chief in Madisonville, Tennessee.

If no one else was interested in justice, he was just going to have to do it himself.

Chief Breeden, please accept this notice of the necessity, authority, and intent to conduct a series of imminent citizens' arrests throughout Monroe County, Tennessee.

The first arrest plan must be constructed and crafted in cooperation with the Madisonville Police Department.

Wisdom dictates the first arrest plan be one that is acceptable to your police chief colleagues throughout Monroe County, an arrest plan that can be used again and again.

Time is not a friend.

Planning must begin immediately.

Contact information is provided separately.

Fair wins, following seas, Walter Francis Fitzpatrick III.

Notice that he's not asking for permission, and he's not making a threat.

He's letting him know.

He feels like he and the police chief have the same level of authority here.

They're both absolutely empowered to make these kinds of arrests, and he just thinks it would be best if they collaborated on this plan.

He's not threatening to break the law because he doesn't think he is.

He's inviting the police chief to participate in what he believes is a perfectly rational and legal course of action.

It's not clear if the police chief wrote him back.

I'm sure they had some conversations about this plan that didn't go how Fitzpatrick had hoped.

But there was no talking him out of it.

He was going to arrest the people who were standing in his way with or without their help.

And on April 1st, 2010,

he tried it.

Please leave the room.

Please leave the room, sir.

I'm charging you with official oppression.

Mr.

Fitzpatrick, please leave the room.

You are under arrest.

Please leave the room.

I'm placing you under arrest, Mr.

Petway.

You are under citizens of

leave the room.

I'm going to ask you to leave the room.

Authors, will you escort this gentleman out of the room?

Mr.

Petway is under

Walter Fitzpatrick entered the courtroom and approached grand jury foreman Gary Petway, a man he'd already spent months unsuccessfully trying to indict.

And Petway doesn't look excited to see Fitzpatrick,

but he looks more exasperated than anything else.

He doesn't look afraid of the old man lurching towards him, saying over and over again, I'm placing you under arrest.

Petway is just sort of backing away from him and repeating, please leave, please leave the room, and pointing towards the door.

And the video we have of this incident is not police body cam footage, but you'd be forgiven for assuming that's where it came from.

It was recorded on someone's cell phone, a Motorola droid, to be precise, if you remember those,

by Carl Swenson, the sovereign citizen who had been agitating for people all over the country to take this kind of action in their local courts ever since Judge Lamberth denied his petition in federal court the year before.

He did this for us.

What do you intend to do for him and for this country?

If we don't come to his assistance, if we don't get to the courthouse, if we don't call him, if we don't walk and march on that courthouse and that sheriff's department, we don't deserve the freedoms we have.

I know what I must do.

I plan on marching on that courthouse.

Carl Swenson was one of several supporters who showed up at the courthouse with Fitzpatrick that day.

Swenson recorded the incident and posted it online, exhorting his followers to show up at the next hearing.

The website he was running at the time, riseupforamerica.com, is gone now.

That URL does still go to a real website, but it belongs to some kind of construction consortium now, and the homepage is a six-year-old blog post about the pros and cons of different kinds of carpet tiles.

One of the other supporters who witnessed Fitzpatrick's arrest that day was a man named Darren Huff.

Like Swenson, Huff had made the drive to Madisonville from his home in Georgia.

He was a member of the Oath Keepers and was also the chaplain of a separate militia group that was just called the Georgia Militia.

When Fitzpatrick was granted bond a few days after his arrest, Darren Huff made the drive back up to Tennessee to meet with him.

They weren't going to suffer this indignity in silence.

They made a plan.

And two weeks later, when Fitzpatrick was due back in court, Darren Huff was outside the courthouse with a crowd of supporters.

prepared to take over the whole damn town by force if they had to.

And Darren Huff was the weird little guy I had in mind when I sat down to start this week's episode.

I was thinking about guys who did something weird because they were mad about an election, and I had a vague recollection of some research I did on the Oath Keepers back in 2019 when Oath Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes was front-row center right behind the podium at a Trump campaign rally.

And I did a little more digging around in 2020 when the Oath Keepers were starting to make noise about what would eventually become the January 6th insurrection.

I'd collected a few odds and ends about oath keepers who got arrested for a variety of crimes over the years, trying to convince people that this could be a serious problem.

And there are plenty of strange little stories in there.

Like an oath keeper in Ohio who was being investigated for mortgage fraud back in 2010, and the investigators completely accidentally discovered that he was making napalm in his garage.

Or how Oath Keepers leader Stuart Rhodes advised members to take it upon themselves to prevent voter fraud in the 2016 election in a plan that definitely was not meant to function as voter intimidation.

And there's the story of that carload of Oath Keepers who were arrested in Florida in 2019.

They were charged with violating the curfew order put in place during the state of emergency after Hurricane Michael.

michael the militia members were driving around dressed as police officers cruising around town in the dark with a car full of rifles dressed as cops patrolling for looters

and obviously there's the entire saga of the oathkeeper's role in january 6th but like i said Right now, I'm tired of that story.

But then I remembered Darren Huff and his plans to citizens arrest a whole county courthouse because he didn't think Barack Obama was the real president.

It was sort of a micro January 6th, an hour south of Knoxville, but 11 years too soon.

At this point in the run of this show, I think I have to stop apologizing for writing so much preamble that the actual story I'm getting to is in part two.

I should just admit to myself that I'm doing that on purpose.

Sure, I could launch right into a story about Darren showing up at the courthouse with a gun.

That would still be an interesting, weird little guy.

But Darren and his gun outside of a courthouse three hours away from his home across state lines trying to arrest a grand jury foreman in a small town that he has no connection to just doesn't make any sense, does it?

Trying to explain that a retired Navy vet was convinced his county court could arrest the president sounds like a silly little joke without the context that this was a nationwide movement motivated by a racist conspiracy theory.

These aren't just stories about one weird little guy at a time.

It's a whole network.

None of this happens in a vacuum, which is why the same stories keep playing out with different characters.

And the same characters keep showing up in each other's stories.

An oath keeper tried to arrest the president in 2010.

The oath keepers tried to overturn the 2020 election.

The woman whose blog chronicled Walter Fitzpatrick's efforts, fueling the conspiracy and driving more supporters to show up in Madisonville, tried to obtain government records in 2022 related to Congresswoman Ilhan Omar's family's immigration and naturalization.

And the same woman was a central figure in the brief frenzy of birther conspiracies about Kamala Harris in 2024.

When Jared Taylor, America's leading purveyor of pseudo-academic eugenicist polemics, had to go to court in 2018 over a permit for his annual race science conference, he sought help from Berther lawyer Van Erian,

the same lawyer who worked on Carl Swenson's lawsuits to keep Barack Obama off the ballot in 2012.

Cutting straight to the chase and getting to Darren's story wouldn't just be missing the forest for the trees, it would be ignoring a whole thriving white supremacist ecosystem.

Because when you turn over a big rock, there's more than one weird bug under there.

And to be honest, I really just wanted to have plenty of room to explore Darren Huff's fascinating legal strategy.

Because

Not to spoil it, but he does end up in federal prison for a little bit.

It's such a rare treat to have so much incredible source material.

And I really don't want to have to cut the audio of a man who got pulled over on his way to commit a federal crime and used that opportunity to try to recruit a state trooper into his militia.

So, until next week.

Don't be rude to your court clerk.

And please, for the love of God, do not put Gatorade in your eyes.

Weird Little Guys is a production of CoolZone Media and iHeartRadio.

It's researched, written, and recorded by me, Molly Conger.

Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans.

The show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan.

The theme music was composed by Brad Dickard.

You can email me at WeirdLittleGuyspodcast at at gmail.com.

I will definitely read it, but I almost certainly will not answer it.

It's nothing personal.

I don't answer any of my emails.

You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit.

Just don't post anything that's going to make you one of my weird little guys.

Tired of spills and stains on your sofa?

WashableSofas.com has your back, featuring the Anibay Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine-washable inside and out, where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

That's right, sofas started just $699.

Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabrics.

Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing.

The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anibay sofa backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.

If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

No return shipping or restocking fees.

Every penny back.

Upgrade now at washablesofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Our partner, Eli Lilly and Company, just announced duets for type type 2 diabetes, a campaign celebrating real patient stories of support because managing type 2 diabetes doesn't have to be a solo act.

Share your story at mountjaro.com slash duets.

Mountjaro terzepatide is an injectable prescription medicine that is used along with diet and exercise to improve blood sugar, glucose in adults with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Mountjaro is not for use in children.

Don't take Mountjaro if you're allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or vision changes.

Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems.

Taking Manjaro with a sulfinyl norrhea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Tell your doctor if you're nursing pregnant plan to be or taking birth control pills and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems.

Once-weekly Manjaro is available by prescription only in 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, and 15 milligram per 0.5 milliliter injection.

Call 1-800-LILLIERX-800-545-5979 or visit Mountjaro.lilly.com for the Mount Jaro indication and safety summary with warnings.

Talk to your doctor for more information about Mount Jaro.

Mountjaro and its delivery device base are registered trademarks owned or licensed by Eli Lilly and Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates.

Today's episode is brought to you by Toyota.

The Toyota Certified Used Vehicle Sales Event is full of great surprises, like a wide selection of low-mileage models all backed by Toyota, with warranties that start on the date of purchase.

Because when it comes to quality, the best new cars make the best used cars.

So don't miss your chance.

Find your certified Toyota today.

But hurry, these great offers end November 3rd.

Toyota Certified Used Vehicles Sales Event, where every surprise is a great one.

Inventory may vary by dealer, participating dealers only.

comprehensive and powertrain or limited warranties.

See TCUV Warranty Supplement, ToyotaCertified.com or your Toyota dealer for details.

This is where projects come to life.

Our showrooms are designed to inspire with the latest products from top brands, curated in an inviting, hands-on environment, and a team of industry experts to support your project.

We'll be there to make sure everything goes as planned, from product selection to delivery coordination.

At Ferguson Bath Kitchen and Lighting Gallery, your project is our priority.

Discover great brands like Jen Air at your local Ferguson showroom.

The next era of true religion is here, and it's coming in hotter than ever.

Introducing the 2025 Icons Collection, featuring the unstoppable Glorilla and Duke Dennis.

She owns the stage, he owns the stream.

They may come from two different worlds, but their mission is the same, to show what it really means to be individually iconic.

Because being iconic isn't about fitting in.

It's about showing up up loud, proud, and unapologetically you.

This collection is stitched with our OG True DNA, super tea stitching, fearless fits, and graphics that go hard.

It's that signature confidence with a right now attitude.

From standout denim to all eyes on you sets.

This drop brings the heat wherever you wear it.

It's real.

It's bold.

It's iconic.

Just like you.

So own the spotlight.

Own your moment.

Own your true.

Shop the icons collection available now only at truereligion.com.

This is an iHeart podcast.