The Survivors — Libby Caswell BONUS

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Speaker 10 This episode includes a detailed discussion of domestic violence.

Speaker 10 It can be hard to hear, but we think it's important not to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby Caswell and what happens to countless other victims every day.

Speaker 10 Please take care while listening.

Speaker 11 I stayed for so many reasons. You know, I wanted that image of what I saw for us when we got married.
I wanted my girls to have their dad around. I wanted, you know, our family to be okay.

Speaker 11 I just wanted us to be okay.

Speaker 10 Domestic violence relationships have one thing in common, an imbalance of power and control. But the behaviors used to maintain that power can take many forms.
Abuse that is physical, verbal, sexual.

Speaker 10 Abuse can start start subtly and get worse over time. There can be periods of calm or a constant state of threat.
It can be difficult to recognize from the outside, but also when you're in it.

Speaker 10 Whatever form it takes, domestic violence is ubiquitous. In their lifetimes, more than one in three women in the U.S.
will experience rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner.

Speaker 10 In their lifetimes, about one in four four women will be subjected to severe physical violence by their partner, hit with a fist or something hard, beaten, slammed against something, and not all of them will survive it.

Speaker 11 Strangulation became his go-to method at the end of our relationship. When I finally did get out,

Speaker 11 the only reason I left really

Speaker 11 was because I wouldn't be here today if I had stayed. He would have killed me.
I'm sure of it.

Speaker 10 Libby Caswell endured years of domestic abuse, but we are unable to share her experience in her own words.

Speaker 10 And because we think it's important to let survivors speak for themselves, we wanted to give them a voice in this bonus episode. Our team spoke with five women who've all asked to remain anonymous.

Speaker 10 Many of the stories may sound similar to Libby's. Teenage love, drug use, strangulation,

Speaker 10 but these stories are all very different from Libby's in one key way.

Speaker 5 These women are alive to share them.

Speaker 10 So I'm going to step aside and let you hear their stories, the details they remember, and the ones they wish they could forget.

Speaker 12 He was controlling, but at that time I was really young and I kind of romanticized the control and the extreme jealousy.

Speaker 12 And in addition to that, friends and family will encourage me to believe, oh my gosh, he loves you so much. And this is why he's doing this.
You're so lucky.

Speaker 13 He was always angry.

Speaker 13 He would punch walls or punch trees or slam doors and punch the bed to create an environment of physical intimidation, threat.

Speaker 11 I thought, like, he's got a temper. He can be really mean, but it wasn't physical.
It was, you know, I guess emotional more so. But I didn't see it as abuse at that time.

Speaker 12 All the red flags were there. I was just

Speaker 12 didn't have the capacity to understand it.

Speaker 13 When I started dating

Speaker 13 my abusive boyfriend,

Speaker 13 a lot of it started as emotional abuse, psychological abuse, verbal abuse. And I told myself, if it were to ever get physical, then I would leave.

Speaker 13 Because in my mind at the time, I thought physical violence is the worst thing that can happen to me.

Speaker 11 The first time that he ever put his hands on me was actually right after we had our first child. And it was my first night out as a new mom.

Speaker 13 A year and a half into our relationship, it got physical.

Speaker 13 And in that first instance where he was physically violent with me, I ran home to my parents and I cried and I confessed everything.

Speaker 11 We would gone to a concert and we came out of the concert and then all of a sudden he grabbed me and threw me like on the ground in front of all of these people and all of our friends.

Speaker 13 And at the time,

Speaker 13 my parents didn't know a lot about the legal system in America. They are immigrants.

Speaker 13 Their first language isn't English. So they asked me if I wanted to report it to the police.

Speaker 13 And I decided not to because what's so tricky about domestic violence is that

Speaker 13 even though my boyfriend had just been physically violent with me, I still loved him and I still wanted to protect him.

Speaker 11 And it happened so fast and all of our friends like kind of swooped in and grabbed him and took him away.

Speaker 11 And I remember thinking like, what the hell was that?

Speaker 13 I did recognize that something was off about my relationship.

Speaker 13 when he became physically violent with me.

Speaker 13 But there was always something in my head saying,

Speaker 13 Well,

Speaker 13 you're just not a good enough partner. You just need to change yourself.
You just need to make yourself a better partner. Then the violence will stop.

Speaker 11 And I was pissed, if I'm going to be honest, I was really, really angry. And I was one of those like fiercely independent women, like, no man's ever going to put his hands on me.

Speaker 11 And then that situation came to me directly. And so it was, okay, what are you going to do do now?

Speaker 14 Whenever I got upset, it was always to go up to my face. and grab it by the neck.

Speaker 11 The first time I experienced strangulation in relationship was on my 30th birthday.

Speaker 12 It was around our second year of dating.

Speaker 13 Was actually during sex.

Speaker 12 I remember clearly because at the time I was the youngest living with my parents and both of them were at work and I was alone at home.

Speaker 12 He just knocked at the door and I remember feeling really scared because his eyes look

Speaker 14 lost.

Speaker 12 He was under the influence of crystal mat.

Speaker 11 My ex had planned this whole elaborate birthday party for me and he had gotten belligerent and I had two children at the time and our baby was sick and so I was like you know what this is silly we're going home

Speaker 11 and as we were driving home it was only about five minutes but he punched me in the face on the way home and

Speaker 11 When we pulled into the driveway, I got out and he came around the car

Speaker 11 and he grabbed me by my throat and slammed me against the garage.

Speaker 13 It was definitely shocking to me

Speaker 13 because we were being intimate.

Speaker 13 And

Speaker 13 all of a sudden, he laid his hands on my neck. And I think he had gotten the notion that I would enjoy this, perhaps as a sexual act.

Speaker 13 But since there really was no consent involved in that it made me incredibly terrified

Speaker 12 on his way out i just was like standing holding the door open for him to leave and he looks at me directly and put his hand around my neck

Speaker 12 and he is a pretty tall guy around 661 and he's big hand so it only took him one hand to just go around my whole neck.

Speaker 11 He was holding me up by my throat against the garage, and I was like, He's gonna kill me. And then he slammed me on the ground and cracked my head open.

Speaker 11 And then he went inside the house.

Speaker 11 I remember thinking, Oh, thank God, I'm okay. And I grabbed the kids out of the car really quickly, and he had locked me out of the house.

Speaker 11 So I broke into our bedroom through the window, holding the kids, and I barricaded us in the bedroom.

Speaker 12 And I just remember

Speaker 12 just thinking about who he was in the past, to what was happening in that moment.

Speaker 12 I just was in shock and couldn't believe it. I just was like so terrified that he felt pretty comfortable doing that to me.

Speaker 14 He would do it to the point before killing me. It was more of proving a point.
I'm the boss. You listen to me.
You obey to me. And then release you.

Speaker 11 I remember sitting in the bathroom, like smoking a cigarette, thinking, I can't believe this just freaking happened to me. So that was the first time,

Speaker 11 not the last.

Speaker 13 I actually thought that strangulation was pretty normal, or it happened so often that it became so normalized, it didn't especially stand out to me as a red flag.

Speaker 13 It was just another kind of manipulation tactic, another method for him to gain power and control over me. Once he realized that he had the power to do that,

Speaker 12 then what was going to stop him to do more things in the future?

Speaker 14 For so many years, it went from actual hitting, pushing, leaving bruises on my arms and realizing, oh, there's bruises to strictly using

Speaker 14 the weight of his body and usually was like on the bed, like weight of his body on me and choking.

Speaker 14 And then I remember I had to learn how to do self-defense, how to hurt him in certain areas so he would release because my fear was always I'll get killed.

Speaker 12 When I got pregnant and I started living with him, that's when the physical abuse was more intense and frequent in the relationship. So he felt he had a lot more

Speaker 13 power

Speaker 12 to do anything that he wanted. However, he was a very intelligent person

Speaker 12 and he would physically abuse me, but not to the point of leaving any marks on my body. He was pretty aware of the consequences of having some sort of physical bruise or mark on my body.

Speaker 11 I had marks that time and I was like, oh my gosh, people are going to see this. And I'm a social worker.

Speaker 11 And that was something I struggled with for the entire time because I thought I help people that are in the same situation that I'm in.

Speaker 11 And I'm, you know, like pretty much preaching what I'm not practicing. And so that was really also embarrassing for me, I think, which contributed to me not saying anything.

Speaker 13 I was a pretty popular student during high school. And I definitely put on a facade of how great my life was.
And to everyone else, it seemed like I had the perfect boyfriend.

Speaker 13 And to admit to my friends that, hey, actually, I'm being abused by him on an everyday basis was terrifying for me.

Speaker 11 I never talked about anything that happened to me with anybody until I actually left for the final time. He was very charismatic and like he was fun and funny.

Speaker 11 And I tried to protect that, I think, and not show him in a different light to our friends and family, and especially my family, I think, because

Speaker 11 they already weren't sure about him from the get-go. And so I really didn't want to make him look bad in any way.

Speaker 13 I was with my abuser when we were teenagers.

Speaker 13 And I think

Speaker 13 that made it incredibly more difficult for me to seek out resources, seek out support.

Speaker 13 I was terrified of sharing with my parents and my sister because I thought that they wouldn't believe me and that they would instead chastise me for being with someone at such a young age, for engaging in sex at such an early age.

Speaker 13 So I felt so incredibly alone.

Speaker 12 I never told anyone.

Speaker 12 I never told anyone

Speaker 12 what had happened.

Speaker 12 I didn't want to believe what had happened.

Speaker 12 And it was scary to even

Speaker 12 think about it.

Speaker 12 And of course, I wouldn't imagine myself sharing it with anyone. And it was shameful too, right?

Speaker 12 It's like, oh my gosh, I have this

Speaker 12 wonderful, charming, handsome boyfriend.

Speaker 12 What is people going to say?

Speaker 14 Why did I say five years? That's what I was supposed to do because till death, do your part is your vows.

Speaker 14 And you have to honor it for your family's name's sake, for your religious sake, for your culture's sake, you want to be the one who did everything right.

Speaker 14 And damn it, there's a one thing I didn't do right. I didn't pick the right person.

Speaker 14 How do I make this better?

Speaker 13 When you're in love with an abuser, your logic changes.

Speaker 13 They're so good at changing your logic to a point where abuse is all that you know. It's all that you think about.
It's all that you justify.

Speaker 13 I would have done anything to make my abuser happy. His happiness was the most important thing to me on the planet.

Speaker 13 I thought that

Speaker 13 this was just

Speaker 13 my reality. This was the rest of my life, that I would, of course, get married to him.
Of course, I would have children with him. And this is just something I would endure for the rest of my life.

Speaker 10 We'll be right back after the break with more from these women, including how they got out of their abusive relationships and how they feel about it now.

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Speaker 4 I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer, and my mom is a cousin, so like it's not like.

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Speaker 10 It can take many attempts to leave an abusive relationship. Libby left Devon multiple times and came back just as many.

Speaker 10 This can be hard to understand from the outside. These women's stories stories illustrate the risks and costs of leaving.
But ultimately, they did leave for good.

Speaker 13 That weekend where I visited him in college was one of the worst weekends I've ever experienced in my life. Because we had been going to different colleges, the

Speaker 13 emotional and verbal abuse he was putting me through was heightened because he couldn't physically touch me. He couldn't sexually abuse me.

Speaker 13 But when I saw him in person, now in the flesh, I had all four kinds of abuse that I was experiencing.

Speaker 13 So the emotional and verbal abuse continued, but now the physical violence and the sexual violence were occurring because we were now physically together.

Speaker 13 So after that trip, I returned home and I decided to break up with him.

Speaker 13 But often when survivors try to leave, it takes them on average anywhere from seven to 11 times to actually leave the relationship.

Speaker 13 And at that point, it probably was my third or fourth time trying to leave the relationship.

Speaker 11 Then I got to the point that he was strangling me and I was welcoming it. I was like, please just F and kill me, you know, just fucking kill me.

Speaker 11 And that really, really was what kind of kicked my ass into gear. That scared me, that I was welcoming it.
And

Speaker 11 I had gotten so desperate and wanted out of that situation so badly that I just wanted him to kill me. And then I thought, what's gonna happen to my girls? It scared the crap out of me.
And

Speaker 11 one night he came home and told me to get the fuck out of his house and take my fucking children with me and i listened and i didn't ever turn around i called my brother he flew out that day brought a duffel bag and said just pack what you can carry and so for the me and my three girls threw whatever we could carry into one duffel bag and he got us out of there while my husband at the time was just watching us from his car

Speaker 11 he just sat there and watched and like kind of taunted us.

Speaker 14 Eventually I got the courage to say, I'm done.

Speaker 14 And he attacked me. It was really bad.
And I ended up in the hospital and, you know, in a hold.

Speaker 14 I was there for three days, but it felt like I was in a safe place because there were individuals like me. And that's when I realized, being away from him, like,

Speaker 14 I have a way out.

Speaker 14 I have a lot to live. I had a great therapist in there that reminded me that I still have plenty of years to live.

Speaker 14 And I was able to get out of that scenario because of that. Realizing the way I still see God in religion is not the way to death you apart no matter what they do.
It's only when they honor you.

Speaker 14 It's a mutual honor. And realizing that gave me so much freedom.

Speaker 12 My son started to imitate his behavior. My son was around six at that time and that was impactful to me.
I cannot allow this to happen.

Speaker 12 Seeing my son, I knew if I had stayed, he would have totally adopted that behavior and my daughters were going to learn what I was doing, right?

Speaker 12 So that really helped me have the courage to leave that abusive relationship. At that time, we were living at his mother's home and he would not allow me to leave with my kids.

Speaker 12 I was undocumented and he was documented. So he used my legal status to threaten me,

Speaker 12 to take me to Tijuana and kill me, or to take the kids to Mexico. And I would never find out where he was with my kids.
And it got to the point where I was 100% isolated from my family and friends.

Speaker 12 But my parents got really worried that they were not able to talk to me. And one time they just came to visit.

Speaker 12 And my father was like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, everything's okay. I'm just like, you know, out all the time, busy with the kids.
And he's like, no,

Speaker 12 like we know what's happening.

Speaker 12 And my father was like,

Speaker 13 you're not my daughter anymore.

Speaker 12 And I want my daughter back.

Speaker 13 So

Speaker 12 it really helped me to

Speaker 12 lift the shame and fear off my shoulders and knowing that I was not alone.

Speaker 12 So after that, I just came up with a plan to leave, but

Speaker 12 that was just the beginning of a long journey of leaving safely and staying safe with my kids.

Speaker 13 Leaving an abusive relationship, you're afraid to love again. You're afraid to trust others because you might feel that people are inherently bad or people are out to get you.

Speaker 13 When I look back at my younger self, sometimes I wish I could shake her shoulders and be like,

Speaker 13 there are 8 billion people in the world.

Speaker 13 I have yet to meet so many amazing people

Speaker 13 that I don't need to endure this. There are

Speaker 13 many, many people I'll continue to meet who would love me for who I am,

Speaker 13 who will never, ever lay their hands on me, never ever say disgusting insults. and comments to me.

Speaker 13 And I wouldn't have to spend the majority of my days crying and screaming and feeling so incredibly low.

Speaker 11 The aftermath has been quite a roller coaster. We're going on, let's see, I have nine years that I got out,

Speaker 11 and I still have hard days. I still,

Speaker 11 you know, because I still have scars from him. I still have marks.

Speaker 11 But definitely the emotional abuse was

Speaker 11 brutal. Like I was a shell of a person when I came back and that has taken a lot of time and work and I kind of just dove into like things that I loved because he had taken all those away from me.

Speaker 11 That has been my path to kind of healing. I know that I have

Speaker 11 a longer way to go and I think that's hard for me.

Speaker 11 I feel frustrated sometimes because I think, God, I should be better by now.

Speaker 11 And I can't rush it. You know, there's no rushing it.
And so I have to kind of take a step back and say, you know, you'll be okay when you're supposed to be okay, which isn't always easy.

Speaker 14 And I actually do have a scar from my then spouse. He did cut me pretty bad in one of my arms.
And I actually do have a scar in my body that always reminds me, I did live this,

Speaker 14 but you carry the scars, but people don't see the scars because they're in your heart. They're in your soul.
They're in your mind. They're in your triggers.

Speaker 14 They're in the defense mechanism that you built around yourself.

Speaker 11 You have to be okay with the uncertainty of what lies ahead. And it's okay if you make mistakes, it's okay.

Speaker 11 If you don't do things right the first time, second time, third time,

Speaker 11 you know, just be patient with yourself. I think that would be the best advice I can give.

Speaker 10 If you or anyone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, you can call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline for help. That number is 1-800-799-7233.

Speaker 10 Thank you also to the National Network to End Domestic Violence for their help with this episode. For more information, you can visit their website to find a coalition near you at nnedv.org.

Speaker 10 What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted by me, Melissa Jeltson. This episode was written by Lauren Hansen and edited and mixed by Jeremy Thall.

Speaker 10 Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvell, with our supervising producer, Carl Cadel.

Speaker 10 Our theme song is written by Erin Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Wolf. Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.

Speaker 10 To find out more about my investigation or to send a tip, please email me at what happened to Libby at gmail.com. Thanks so much for listening.

Speaker 10 Don't you know I follow you

Speaker 10 until I,

Speaker 10 until I fell apart.

Speaker 10 What a way to find myself

Speaker 10 in pieces

Speaker 10 in pieces in the dark.

Speaker 10 Don't you know I'll follow

Speaker 10 you

Speaker 10 until I,

Speaker 10 until I fell apart.

Speaker 10 What a way to find myself

Speaker 10 in pieces,

Speaker 10 in pieces in the dark.

Speaker 4 I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

Speaker 16 What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story.

Speaker 4 Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life.

Speaker 16 This is Wisecrack, available now.

Speaker 16 Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime.

Speaker 5 My husband said, your dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar.

Speaker 16 I was just completely in shock.

Speaker 5 Liz's father murdered, and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. I didn't feel real at all.

Speaker 17 More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers.

Speaker 16 We're still fighting.

Speaker 5 Listen to Hands Tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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