Safe - Talina Zar E7

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Ricinus communis is an exotic perennial plant with oversized purplish leaves, bulbous seed pods, and blooms in various striking colors.

It's a pretty plant, often often grown in decorative gardens.

The seeds, called castor beans, which are about the size of a peanut, can be pressed into castor oil, which has several uses, as a preservative in food and an ingredient in cosmetic products.

But the seeds are probably more famously known for their lethal nature, as they contain a toxin, ricin, that can kill even in small amounts.

As this poison can be manufactured at home, it's a popular choice for would-be assassins.

Crews in hazmat suits are seen entering a mail facility near Washington after letters sent to President Barack Obama and a Mississippi senator test positive for ricin.

The FBI is also investigating letters sent to the Pentagon that tested positive for the deadly poison ricin.

The details of an arrest at the Canada-U.S.

border of a person suspected of sending a letter containing a deadly poison to Donald Trump's White House.

Despite their potential for deadly use, you can legally buy castor beans online or in a gardening store.

And if you happen upon them by accident, it's likely you wouldn't recognize the fatal power they contain.

Investigator Elliott located a small firebox safe in one of the bedroom closets.

Corey states she does not have a key for it, and it hasn't been opened in probably 10 years.

Detective Weber Weber noted that during one of the searches of Telina and Corey's house, the investigators stumbled on a small safe.

Corey insists that the safe can't be opened, but Weber is not so easily deterred.

I located several sets of keys hanging in the closet by the front door.

The first key I tried opened the safe.

The findings inside the safe were extremely significant.

Inside the safe, among other things, were three small packages of bubble wrap.

Inside the packages were castor beans and seeds to grow castor beans, specifically Ricinus communis.

The police can't take the beans, they aren't included in the search warrant, but they can take Corey's computers.

And in one of them, they find a Microsoft Word file created in 2012 titled Making Ricin.

From iHeart Podcasts, I'm Melissa Jeltson, and this is what happened to Talina Czar.

And I slung open the door, and me and Rachel standing there and she goes, oh my God, this thing smells like death.

Well, the only reason it has to do with anything is just because my understanding, it was there one day and now it's not.

She goes, well, Corey butchered that thing.

And I'm like, what?

She said, yeah, she cut that horse up in tiny little pieces and dumped it out for the coyote.

And then they let her out.

I was like, what in the hell is going on here?

We thought we had her.

My husband and I spent every penny we had to move to Wisconsin.

And we went through a tough time where we didn't have much money.

Episode seven, Safe.

Tell me when you first learned about

what had happened in Wisconsin.

She had been involved in a robbery.

That's how she got her felony.

Early on in Jess's investigation, she doesn't know much about Corey's past criminal conviction, just that she had one in Wisconsin in 2014.

Until a woman named Sherry Ziegler joins the Justice for Talina Facebook group.

And then Sherry told me the exact story of what had happened.

Sherry and her husband, Michael, lived, still live, in Middleton, Wisconsin.

It's a suburb of Madison, a friendly place, according to its motto, the good neighbor city.

Sherry said for the first 20 years they lived there, they never really locked their doors.

But that all starts to change when the Zieglers get back from a trip to Florida at the end of March 2014.

It's then that they experience a series of strange and unexplained events.

First, they come home to a mess.

A bunch of unidentified debris spread inside their house.

In the hallways and in their bedroom, they find what looks like small pebbles or crumbled sheetrock.

It's also in their bed, under the covers, and inside Sherry's underwear and sock drawer.

She said it looked like kitty litter on her bed, her pillow all over her dresser.

Yeah, she called it kitty litter.

The couple are exhausted, and since nothing else appears disturbed, they write it off as a weird prank.

They unpack, return their travel money to their safe, sweep the weird pebbles out of their sheets, and go to bed.

A month passes without incident.

And then one night, Mike goes to get some items from the safe in their bedroom closet and finds the safe's not there.

Sherry tells Jess it was filled with the usual valuables.

You know, it's like $1,000 worth of cash,

the deed to their house, like a bunch of important stuff that you keep in a safe, right?

This time, the Zieglers call the police.

A deputy comes by, makes a report, and begins an investigation.

But without any leads or evidence, the case goes stale.

And then, a month after that, Sherry gets a credit card statement in the mail.

It's from a card she never activated.

And it's only now she realizes it's missing from where she left it, in a dish on the kitchen counter.

A credit card bill had come in the mail for a credit card she knew she had not opened yet, and that's what led her to check the statement, find out where the money was spent.

Sherry calls the credit card company and they tell her that the card was activated a few weeks earlier from the landline inside her home.

She knows she didn't activate it, so who did?

Looking at the charges on her statement, she recognizes some of the businesses where the card was used.

Among them is the gas station down the road.

So, much like Jess would, I imagine, Sherry heads over to the Quick Trip and demands to see the video footage of the transaction.

Her and her little self, which I can attest to at this point, is maybe 120 pounds of

older lady.

She's a wonderful human, I really like Sherry, but she's itty-bitty little thing.

going down there asking for receipts and videos and

I mean middleton and verona is pretty small so and she's lived there a long time so she had a couple relationships and wasn't afraid to go up and say hey i want to look at this video

and who does sherry see using the card issued in her name her neighbor corey

sherry told jess that corey and her husband alec had moved in next door a few months earlier And from the beginning, it had been a tense relationship.

She said it was always just an uncomfortable dynamic that her and Corey never really hit it off at all.

But Mike and Corey seemed to have some kind of like neighborly relationship.

Sherry reports her discovery to the police.

And later that day, they arrest Corey.

I began by asking Corey if she was aware that her neighbor to the direct north had been burglarized, to which she said yes.

While Sherry wasn't able to listen in on the conversation between Corey and the arresting officers, I was able to obtain the police report, which goes into detail about this interaction as well as their full investigation.

You're about to hear reenacted selections of the police report.

I began to show Corey Adams the still photographs of the suspect inside the quick trip located on West Mineral Point Road.

I asked Corey if she recognized the subject in the photograph, from which she said, it sure looks like me.

It sure looks like me.

I then showed Corey Adams the photograph of the vehicle buying gas at the quick trip on East Verona Avenue and asked her if that was the vehicle which was sitting in her driveway, which she said yes.

Yes.

I again asked Corey Adams if she knew anything about the crimes committed against her direct next-door neighbor, Michael and Sharon Ziegler, and she again said no.

No.

As I continued to question Corey Adams, she said, I'm racking my brain trying to make sense of this.

I'm racking my brain trying to make sense of this.

I informed Corey Adams that the evidence against her at this point was very incriminating and that if she had any involvement with this crime, now is the time to tell me the truth.

Corey continues to say she doesn't know anything about any crimes committed against her neighbors.

Corey is later charged with four counts of fraudulent use of a credit card.

However, the police are never able to connect Corey to the missing safe or find proof that she entered the Ziegler's house illegally.

Here's Jess again.

Sherry insists that Corey was in her home and she's convinced that she had to have come in the house, gotten the letter, because it had to be done from her phone.

In court, Corey ultimately takes a plea bargain, admitting to one count of fraudulently using a credit card.

She denies stealing it, though.

Instead, she claims she simply found the activated credit card outside on the ground and decided to use it.

Judge William E.

Hanrahan is skeptical.

Here's a reenactment of some of his comments in court.

All right,

so somebody else had access, got into the house, and took the time to use that home phone to activate the credit card, and somehow had access to the last four digits of the victim's social security number, and took all these affirmative steps, but didn't have the wherewithal to hang on to the card when they left the house?

And your client just happened to pick up that exact same newly activated card and had the lapse of judgment enough to stick it in her pocket and go and use it on several occasions?

Is that the story?

The judge doesn't buy Corey's explanation, and neither do the Zieglers.

Even though she pleads guilty, they still have so many questions.

Here's a recreation of parts of Sherry's victim impact statement that was read in court.

This defendant is being charged and convicted of the fraudulent use of my credit card.

But the underlying concern is so much greater than that.

It is this,

how did she get my credit card?

Sherry explains that she spoke with the credit card company and they were able to pinpoint the exact time and date that the credit card was activated.

We left our house at 6.30 that night and the card was activated at 7 o'clock the same night.

The credit card was activated from our home phone and the credit card company reported that it was activated by a woman.

That woman knew the last four digits of my social security number.

Sherry tells the judge she believes the woman is her next-door neighbor, Corey.

It seems so very obvious to us all that she was in our home while she knew we were gone.

She found the new credit card sitting on the kitchen counter.

She used our phone to activate it.

And then she was seen using the credit card shortly after that.

She is seen on video using my credit card.

She used it multiple times.

Judge, I wish there was a way you could compel Corey to tell you and us how she got my credit card number.

We just want her to admit that it was her who stole it.

At least then we would know who was in our house that night.

Sherry reminds the judge that this incident was not the first intrusion into their home.

When we returned from a trip to Florida in March, we came home to

stuff

kitty litter or broken sheetrock material scattered scattered throughout our house, especially on my side of the bed and in my underwear drawer.

This was very personal and I felt particularly scared.

And then there's the issue of the stolen safe, the valuables that were never recovered and no one was held accountable for.

All of it was taking a toll on Sherry and Mike.

So much for the good neighbor City.

Do we feel safe living next door to Corey?

No.

Do our neighbors feel safe after our house was broken into?

No.

None of us feel safe anymore.

We are good, law-abiding people, and we have to live being afraid of our neighbors.

This is no way to live.

The judge has some choice words for Corey before she leaves.

Now I've been told that you've been punished enough by a conviction for this crime.

I'm not feeling it, honestly.

I find this to be an aggravated offense.

I don't know why, at age 52, that this seemed like a good thing to do.

In fact, I don't really know the depth of what you've done.

The most troubling aspect of this whole string of events here is that it wasn't against a major corporation.

It's not against a stranger.

It's against your neighbor.

This is of biblical proportions.

These are people who should have been able to trust you.

It strikes at the very heart of an individual's sense of security, their sense of well-being, their sense of belonging.

Corey is sentenced to two years' probation in order to build a privacy fence between their two properties.

The judge goes on to warn Corey that her life is at a crossroads and it could easily be headed in the wrong direction.

You've got to know that what you've done is extremely wrong.

You've got to know that somehow, somewhere along the way, you've slipped the tracks.

You have to figure out what went wrong and you have to fix it.

Let's be real.

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This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal.

Are there two sides to every story?

Academy Award nominee Robin Wright stars in the girlfriend on Prime, a psychological thriller that will make you question everything you think you know.

Laura has the dream job, the perfect husband, and a son she'd die for.

But when her beloved Daniel brings home his new girlfriend Cherry, played by Olivia Cook, something feels off.

Is Cherry the sweet, innocent girl she appears to be?

Or is there something more manipulative beneath the surface?

And how far will a mother go to protect her son?

Also starring Lori Davidson, The Girlfriend is a twisted game of cat and mouse where nothing is what it seems, and everyone has something to hide.

Don't miss the girlfriend, streaming now exclusively on Prime.

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Five years later, Corey is sitting in a small interview room in the Wagner County Sheriff's Office.

answering questions about Talina.

And when Detective Weber asks about Corey's criminal history, she tells him a very different story than she told police in Wisconsin in 2014.

Somebody brought up at some point that you were charged with something, and I don't remember what state, Wisconsin or

Wisconsin.

Yes.

So what happened in a nutshell?

My husband and I

have every parent.

She's the victim.

She tells Weber that she had befriended Mike Ziegler and he had helped her out financially during a rough patch.

Corey says Mike offered her his wife's credit card to use for essentials like gas and groceries.

And he said she could pay him back whenever she got the chance.

Well, the wife was jealous of him and I for no reason.

And she had a canary and she pressed charges.

Weber doesn't take Corey's story at face value.

Instead, the Wagner County Sheriff's Office reaches out to authorities in Wisconsin for context.

I imagine Weber got the same police reports I have, the ones detailing the missing safe, the multiple break-ins, the strange debris scattered all around the house.

Weber also gets a tip, alleging that Corey had not only stolen the Ziegler's credit card, but had actually tried to poison them.

It sounds a little far-fetched.

Why would she poison her neighbors?

But when Wagner police discover the castor beans and the Word document outlining how to make ricin, they start to wonder, maybe that tip is true.

Considering the beans were hidden in a safe inside of bubble wrap in a closet, and because Corey lied about having a key to it, This made the history in Wisconsin in which she reportedly trying to poison people much more likely to be true.

And maybe that strange debris Sherry Ziegler found in her bed wasn't kitty litter after all.

In July, the Wagner County Sheriff's Office reaches out to Sherry, who later told all of this to Jess.

One of the sheriffs said, well, if you think you still have any of it in your house, she said, you know, I don't think I do, but I'll go and look.

And it just so happens that behind her dresser in her room, she still had parts of it.

I was kind of shocked because this happened in 2014 and we're talking 2020 at this point that she still had pieces of it.

I was like, wow, I don't think I'd have any of that left in my house.

She said she had kept some of the kitty litter stuff like in a baggie just because she was always like confused as to what it was.

And they had said, well, can you mail whatever it is you have down to the sheriff's office?

And she said, sure, why not?

Wagner investigators receive Sherry's package and hand it over to the FBI for testing.

It comes back positive for Ryson.

And I was like, wow, she,

I'm a huge Breaking Bad fan.

Love Breaking Bad.

I remember that episode when Walter made Ryson out of castor beans?

So that's where my head went, like her in a lab somewhere creating this powder.

And really, she was doing it in the shed in the backyard.

So that was my,

oh shit, we're in a lot of trouble now.

Here's what Jess told me happened next, though I wasn't able to independently verify it.

Every post office that her letter went through through had to be shut down and inspected and tested because of what the poison ended up being.

So I joke with Sherry all the time in regards to being, you know, one of those people that sends poison in the mail.

I'm like, gosh, we, you know, you're a felon at this point.

And we kind of giggle about it.

And the poor sheriff, I'm sure, is beating his head against the wall thinking, what the heck did I have her do?

I can't imagine any sheriff in their right mind would be like, go ahead and mail that to us if that's, you know, what he actually thought it was.

The Wagner County Sheriff's office passes the information along to wisconsin so they can open their own investigation but back in oklahoma talina's case remains at a standstill corey still free on bond talina is still missing and the online sleuths are suddenly in the dark after marty had died we were kind of cut off from information in oklahoma quite a bit he was the one the police bar was talking to so then he'd feed it back to us right meanwhile Corey goes about her business.

In late August, she attempts to scrap Telina's truck, a 2007 Dodge Ram.

She brings it to Budget Recycling, along with a story that the truck had been given to her by a relative of a friend and that it was kinda busted.

The scrapyard says they can only give her about 200 bucks, which is far less than the truck is worth, but she agrees and walks out with the cash.

The scrapyard employees find this whole interaction strange, especially after they drive the car and it's running just fine.

After doing a bit of googling amateur sleuths themselves, they work out who Corey is, a suspect in her roommate's disappearance, and report the incident to police.

Corey is arrested once again, this time for felony, fraud, and embezzlement.

But Corey bonds out once again, and this time she gets out of Wagner.

She heads to Wisconsin to stay with her mom.

Just learns about this and realizes Corey is now only one state away.

When she moved to Wisconsin to be with her mom, I got not scared, but more worried because she was closer.

Middleton is four and a half hours from me, so easy trip if she wanted to make it.

And there's one gal online that,

you know, between some misinformation and some fabrication,

it's unfortunate.

With Corey in Wisconsin, all of Jess's spies on the ground in Wagner are useless.

So there is nothing, no neighbors to eyeball Corey, nobody, like nobody.

For all the frenzy of the early investigation, things now start to slow way down.

Summer turns into fall, turns into winter, with no update on Talina.

COVID, meanwhile, continues to lay siege to the country.

By the end of 2020, deaths from the virus are still climbing, and most public schools stay remote amid another COVID surge.

And while there's some hope that life will eventually go back to normal, the continued isolation, the high unemployment rates, the uncertainty of it all is taking a toll.

It's bleak for Talina's family too.

Here's Cheryl.

Mom and I were talking.

Mom said, she's not coming back.

I just know it.

I just know it.

They just have to find her body.

When she said it, I

admitted that's exactly what I thought to.

That, you know, we didn't know what in the world

had happened to her, but we just thought, no.

It's bad.

It's bad.

The Wagner police have also lost hope that they'll find Telina alive.

They had run down all the various things and there was absolutely no trail of her and

admitted they were pretty sure they were searching for a body.

They came and they did collect some DNA swabs from mom.

That was hard on her, but she did it, of course.

Because then it was, she wanted her found.

She didn't want her

laying out someplace

or in a shallow grave somewhere.

You know, she wanted her found.

Let's be real.

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This is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal.

Are there two sides to every story?

Academy Award nominee Robin Wright stars in the girlfriend on Prime, a psychological thriller that will make you question everything you think you know.

Laura has the dream job, the perfect husband, and a son she'd die for.

But when her beloved Daniel brings home his new girlfriend Cherry, played by Olivia Cook, something feels off.

Is Cherry the sweet, innocent girl she appears to be?

Or is there something more manipulative beneath the surface?

And how far will a mother go to protect her son?

Also starring Lori Davidson, the girlfriend is a twisted game of cat and mouse where nothing is what it seems, and everyone has something to hide.

Don't miss the girlfriend, streaming now exclusively on Prime.

Sometimes the truth is just a matter of perspective.

The revolutionary CeraVe Balancing Air Foam Cleanser is a powerful gentle cleanser with new glycolysine technology that traps oil like a magnet.

With three essential ceramides, it locks in hydration and brings the balance your skin needs.

It provides eight-hour oil control plus 24-hour hydration.

New CeraVe Balancing Air Foam Cleanser for Combination Skin from the number one dermatologist recommended skincare brand.

CeraVee has a cleanser for every skin type.

Find yours.

Hey, this is Danielle Robet, host of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, a podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide.

You know, cotton is a part of so many of life's everyday comforts, from what we wear to what we wrap ourselves in, and it's especially present in the quiet, cozy moments, like reading a book you can't put down.

Which brings me to our new segment, the book nook, where we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.

For me, that means cotton everything.

I live in LA, it's summer, and even when it's warm, I want to feel wrapped up and relaxed.

When I'm home, I curl up with this super soft cotton blanket.

It's lightweight and breathable and perfect for long reading stretches.

I've got my favorite matching cotton lounge set on too.

It's basically my reading uniform.

And I'm nestled on my couch by the window, iced coffee clinking, book in hand.

It's truly my ideal reading setup.

Thanks to Cotton for bringing this segment to life and reminding us that comfort and style can go hand in hand.

Don't forget to check the tag for Cotton.

And if you want to learn more, head to thefabricofourlives.com.

Good morning.

I'm Sheriff Chris Elliott with the Wagner County Sheriff's Office.

On January 22nd, 2021, more than nine months since Talina disappeared, Wagner authorities addressed the public with a big update.

This press conference is regarding what originally started out as a missing persons investigation regarding Tolena Galloway.

Sheriff Chris Elliott starts off with the story about a woman in a totally different state.

who observed something unusual back over the summer.

On June 8th of 2020, a witness in the area of Polk County, Arkansas observed a pickup towing a small enclosed trailer.

The truck and trailer were observed to be driving into a secluded area that is adjacent to the Quachita National Forest south of Mino, Arkansas.

From inside her house, the woman notices a truck and U-Haul trailer turned down Woody Lane, a dead-end logging road next to her property.

Now, this witness said that it was suspicious to her, so she went to investigate.

Wondering why a truck with a U-Haul is creeping down a private road, the woman, yet another fearless amateur sleuth, decides to follow it.

When she eventually reaches the parked truck and trailer, they're deserted.

No one is around.

But something else catches her nose.

She went to the area where she thought the truck was, located the truck, walked up to the truck and denoted the tag number on the truck and then denoted that there was a foul odor coming from the trailer and then observed a foul-smelling thick liquid pooled in the floor of the trailer.

The woman quickly memorizes the license plate number of the truck and runs back to her house where she jots it down.

Then she calls local police to report what she saw.

A little while later, she spots the truck and the trailer leave.

Inside, she sees a driver and a passenger.

She waits all day for the police to show up, but she never sees them.

Six months pass.

It's the day before Christmas, the weather is nice, and the woman decides to stretch her legs.

She goes walking in the same area down Woody Lane where she saw the suspicious truck and trailer.

Back then, at the height of summer, the trees had been full and the forest thick with brush.

But now in winter, the trees have shed their leaves and she can see much further into the bare forest.

Peering into the distance, she spots a large white, almost square object.

She walks over to it.

The same witness was walking in the woods and came upon a white boxt top freezer with a lid taped shut.

The freezer is wrapped in duct tape.

The woman doesn't open it.

Instead, she goes home and tells her husband what she found.

But it's Christmas Eve, so they wait to call the police until after the new year.

Eventually, in the middle of January, A deputy comes out to take a look.

The woman accompanies him down Woody Lane and into the forest.

They approach the white freezer.

The deputy throws back the lid.

A face, a human skull, stares back at him.

They discovered what they believed at that time to be human remains inside the freezer.

The Arkansas State Medical Examiner accepted jurisdiction of the remains and took possession of the freezer and conducted an autopsy.

On January 19th, 2021, Wagner County Sheriff's Office received a tentative report of identification from the Arkansas State Medical Examiner identifying the human remains as Tolina Galloway and classified the manner of death as homicide.

It was my son's birthday, and we went out to dinner at Fish Jail.

We were sitting at that round table in the center.

And

my phone kept going off, off, off.

And I was like, damn it, we're out to dinner.

Like, so I look at it.

I see this text, and Nicole said, they found her.

And I was like, oh my God.

So I kind of was like, I'm going to go outside quick.

I'll be right back.

And she was a mess.

She was bawling.

And then I started crying because I was like, how did they find her?

And she said, we were right.

She's in the freezer.

She cut her up.

And I was like, no fucking way.

And it was, we just, we both just kind of cried.

My ex-husband and his wife were there.

My husband, our kids.

And I come back in crying.

And everybody's like, what happened?

Like, something happened to grandma.

Like, what's wrong?

And I said,

we found Talina.

It just ruined the whole night, ruined the whole week.

And from there, it was kind of a grieving.

I felt like I went through a little bit of a grieving process for Talina.

At the press conference, police explained that Talina's body had been methodically cut into pieces before being placed in the freezer.

For Talina's friends and family, finding out that she was gone and discarded in such a horrific way was especially hard to bear.

Here's Nicole.

When I got the phone call telling me that they had found the body and how they found the body,

that i i really did have a meltdown i was getting ready to go into a zoom call with um at the time i was working for a non-profit and um

i called and i said i i can't do it i can't do it i just i just found out and um it really did hit me differently especially because i i knew in my heart that she was gone i knew for a long time

And

but then after that, it was really hard to know how she

and what she went through.

And then, what gets me through it is just to know that I'm so lucky to have been loved by her for the little time that I was to be her friend and to have her in my life.

Here's Cheryl Talina's sister: We all kind of knew in our gut something bad had happened.

And

deep down,

we thought, it'll be a body.

But the where, the how,

it was

agonizing.

They did call us first, notified the family, and went through every grisly detail and told us everything they found, what they saw and stuff.

And the reason, of course, was because the following day it was going to be made public.

And they did not want us to be at all surprised or,

shocked or traumatized by what came out publicly.

They wanted to make sure we knew it first so that we were prepared.

Now, I will give you this one part

that we got that wasn't necessarily public.

The coroner who did the autopsy and all,

he had given a note specifically to the family.

that she had

died by blunt force trauma to the skull or to the head.

There was so much damage to the skull.

He was very certain she had died instantly.

And he believed that she was laying down when she was struck and probably sleeping.

Knowing Talina likely died instantly while she was sleeping was a relief of sorts, but it didn't take away the pain of knowing what someone did to her body.

The circumstances were far more gruesome than we could have ever imagined.

I mean, I didn't expect it to be easy at all

under any other circumstances, but I did not expect something like that.

And

I just think it was

just,

oh my God,

this.

This just certainly can't possibly be what happened.

And it was, it haunted me.

It haunted me.

Well, it still haunts me.

It is painful, horrifically painful.

And I will cry, but I want you to know I am okay.

Even if I cry, I am okay.

Next time on what happened to Tolina Czar,

Corey is arrested for not one but two crimes in two states.

Corey Bonnelly was arrested yesterday afternoon in Dane County, Wisconsin and is currently in the Dane County jail awaiting transport back to Wagger County where she will face charges of murder in the first degree,

desecration of a human course.

And Jess and the internet sleuths can finally hang up their hats if they're willing to.

I don't think this is ever going to be for me.

So you're not going to put it down.

I don't think I can.

What Happened to Talinazar is a production of iHeart podcasts.

It's written, reported, and hosted by me, Melissa Jeltson.

With writing and story editing by Lauren Hansen, our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch.

For iHeart podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Carl Cadel.

Fact-checking by Maya Shukri.

Zoe Denkla is our associate producer.

Jeremy Thal is our editor.

Original music by Aaron Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal and Gideon Crevichet.

Additional sound design by Marita Spe.

Episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Cadel.

Voice acting by Lizzie Gore, Chris Ferry, Stephanie Frame, Pete Monica, and Molly Maslin.

Our logo is designed by Ido Moore.

Thanks so much for listening.

Let's be real.

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