Episode 1665 - Awkwafina

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Lock the gates.

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast, WTF.

Coming in for landing, people.

Couple months left.

I hope everybody's all right.

How are you?

Are Are you all right?

Are you all right?

Hello.

Hello.

You,

you look all right.

You'll get through it.

I am personally

not at home.

I imagine some of you can hear that.

Some of you more sensitive to the sound quality of the show probably know that I'm not home by now, but no longer complain about it because why?

Why bother?

Huh?

But I am in New York.

I've been here for a few days.

This is sort of the end of this massive press journey for both The Bad Guys 2, which opens this Friday, tomorrow.

Also for Panicked, my HBO special, which drops tomorrow.

And, you know, a lot of attention on the closing up of the podcast and on these two projects.

And it's just been a massive press press.

Just a full press of press.

Does that make sense?

Am I using the sporting analogy right?

Full court press of press.

Is that better?

Look, I'm a team player.

I'll get out there.

I'll show for the movie.

It's a good movie.

It's an exciting movie.

It's great animation.

It's got a great pace.

It's got a fun story.

It's got fun characters.

But there is sort of

a ceiling to how much you can make press about an animated film interesting, as far as I can tell.

I mean, as an actor, and I'm up there with Danielle Brooks and Rockwell and Natasha, Maria, Craig Robinson's there, Anthony Ramos.

And, you know, you're doing a lot of these.

You'll sit in a room and you'll do 20 of them.

You have five-minute hits, 10-minute hits with journalists from all different outlets.

And I'm not saying they're not doing their job and we're doing our job.

But I mean, after you field the question, like, if you weren't a snake, what animal would you be and why?

And as a snake, you know, what are you thinking?

How do you get into character for a snake?

And if you watch Seth Meyers from last night, I addressed that.

And I said, well, basically, this is my voice as me.

And now I'm the snake.

I'm doing it.

It all comes right there.

So that gets a little exhausting, but I think people had fun with it.

And I don't even know where half of them are seen.

And you do some of these press things, it's like, where is this going to be?

And they're like, it's on a thing and a thing in a place.

And I'm like, oh, okay.

Well, that's good.

Today, Aquafina is here.

She's an interesting character and very funny and has had kind of an interesting way of kind of moving through show business.

She's in the bad guys movies with me.

She plays The Spider.

What's the name?

She plays Webbs.

And I think the first time I really met her was doing press and promotional stuff.

And she's also an Emmy winner and a Golden Globe Award winner.

But she did, you know, she won that Golden Globe for a very serious movie, The Farewell.

And, you know, she kind of reached deep.

And I don't think she's had a lot of acting training.

But so anyway, she's here.

Good conversation.

Tonight I'll be at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City in conversation with Jim Gathigan after a screening of my HBO special.

Mark Maron panicked.

I don't know if there's tickets left, but you can check wtfpod.com slash tour for tickets.

And as I mentioned earlier,

the special premieres on HBO this Friday and on HBO Max as well.

And so does the bad guy.

So he's going to be, you know, what are you going to go see?

It's up to you, which mark do you want to engage with?

But

I think what's at the front of my mind, and I think that some of you in your emails have

kind of sensed it.

It's very interesting about the end of the show because almost everybody is like, you know, sorry, it's happening.

I'm sad to see you go, but I get it.

And a lot of you have been on this weird journey with me and my life through all these episodes, through all these years.

And you sense that I've arrived at a different place.

And it's not a bad place, no matter how much I engage with or experience the anxiety that I've been experiencing over the last couple of weeks for any number of reasons.

But I think you have actually seen the evolution of me kind of landing in myself in a new way.

And I've noticed it myself.

I want you to know that I do take note.

I am writing things down about ways that I am kind of, it's not even gratitude.

It's just like, hey, you did a good job on that.

Or, hey, you know what?

You didn't worry about your pants.

You know, those boots are fine.

Like there's a self-talk involved, but mostly it happens afterwards where I do something and I'm like, holy shit, I'm pretty good at this.

And that's kind of new.

I mean, I mean, I, and this is going to sound a little crazy.

I told you about that.

The singing I did the other night at Largo of the Taylor Swift song.

And I don't know if this seems weird or you're going to, you know, think I'm a dick for it, but I think I've watched that clip upwards of 20 or 30 times.

I just sit and watch me singing that song and I'm thinking like, dude, you know, you did all right.

And I just keep watching it.

Is that weird?

Is that narcissistic?

Is it, or is it me just going, hey, if you're not hearing it from other people, hear it from yourself.

You know, when you talk to somebody else, it's like, oh, I love that thing.

You know, I watched it like 20 times.

I'm like, yeah, me too.

And it's me.

So I don't think that's a bad thing, is it?

But one of the ways I notice it the most is in these, you know, these

panels or talk shows, sometimes on other people's podcasts.

There's just this, there is a sense of

the real thing that drove me for a lot of years was just I really wanted to,

you know, I really wanted to be good.

I wanted people to laugh at what I thought was funny, but I was driven by a certain fear, by a certain panic.

There was a lot writing on it.

I was always one of these people that, you know, I could only go one way and that was all in.

And if that didn't work, you know, I'd be like, oh my God, you know, this means I'm terrible or I don't know what I'm doing or I suck or maybe people just don't get me or whatever.

But what I realize now, because I just did Seth Meyers last night, is that I was really, you know, full of panic.

That like at my core, you know, I wasn't being a character when I was all worked up.

I was all worked up.

I wasn't being a character when I was angry about something.

I wasn't being a character where I was being cocky about a particular, you know,

issue or a person that I was talking about comedically.

I was really feeling all those things.

And really,

those things as a subtext, not an enjoyable listen, not necessarily an enjoyable watch.

If you sense that somebody is really,

I wouldn't say desperate, but trying really hard

and also being a bit dark and a bit weird,

it's not going to land great.

And now I'm not, I'm still that guy, but

I don't give as much of a fuck and I am pretty comfortable,

very comfortable in my abilities.

And I think I'm just sort of realizing that and living in it.

And it's kind of good.

And I don't know what to do with those feelings.

You know, like I talked to you about the, you know, that panel.

You know, and like how I landed some pretty funny jokes and they were very intentional.

And I thought about them in the moment, and I decided to execute them, and they landed, and it was like, I'm pretty good at this.

But I don't know if you can appreciate that.

I've been doing this 40 years, and you know, the ratio in terms of how many times I said, well, that sucked, or I suck, or this sucked,

versus how many times I said, that was good, I did good, whatever.

It's very small on the I did good side.

But I did Seth last night,

and, And,

you know, I've been in that studio my entire professional life.

I used to do Conan.

I started doing Conan O'Brien probably in 1996.

I think it was probably my first network stand-up appearance was on Conan.

And I did two of those.

And then I did panel for the next, you know, 20 years.

And every time whatever chemistry Conan and I had that evolved, which was like, here comes Mark, he's worked up about something.

He's going to alienate the audience or whatever.

whatever I didn't love that but it gave you know him a point of view on it but I didn't intend to do that ever I I really thought I'd come out and kill and then like I wouldn't and then he'd be like here we go you did it again you dug a hole and I'm like instead of saying you know I didn't want to I do I really thought that would like kill I would go like I know I'm you know I'm that guy I'm the dig a hole guy

but going back for Seth and being in that building you know I always liked going to Conan.

I liked being part of that part of show business and being, you know, Pamela Anderson is on the show with me.

And I got to like say hi to her and tell her she did a great job in the last show girl.

And I never met her before.

And, you know, I liked the whole process of gearing up to do a late night shot.

But I didn't have

something happened on the special, which you can watch on Friday, panicked on HBO and HBO Max, where it was really the first time where I was, you know, fully, not so much, it wasn't wasn't about being in control, but I was okay

with myself and grounded.

You know, I'd done all the work leading up to it, and I just felt really comfortable and excited to do it and ready to do it.

And that's a rare thing for me, you know, historically, but I did feel it.

I felt the shift.

I don't know if it's getting older or giving less fucks or just finally realizing

that I put my whole life into this particular form, into this craft.

And I kind of felt it with from bleak to dark

a bit, but like, you know, like I'm, I'm good at this and I do it exactly the way I want to do it.

But that confidence is kind of like spreading inside me, which is, which is not a bad thing.

It's okay when confidence spreads, as long as you don't get too cocky.

I try not to get cocky and I just keep it inside, you know, in terms of like, you don't want to be, because like there is part of me, you know, when you fail, you, you kind of look for some sort of reassurance you know uh you know from friends or whatever like that was pretty good right and they're like yeah yeah it was pretty good and you can you still know it's almost like reaffirming the fact that it did suck as bad as as you thought it did but they're trying to be nice but when i feel like i did good i i do the same thing i'm like that was fucking great right and there's nothing more annoying than that some guy like just can't shut up about how good it was so i'm keeping that inside but i do i do seth and and just going out there and knowing him and he's a particularly nice guy and he is very good at his job right now.

And he's a very good writer, and he knows comedy.

But I just went out there, and we had a loose kind of framework of it.

But my freedom of mind to just be funny without overthinking it is new to me.

And it's happening now.

And I'm

almost 62 years old, that it's all sort of coming together for me.

You know, not professionally, it is that as well, but for me as a performer and as a guy who who does a thing that he's been doing his whole life, I finally feel kind of locked in.

That's a long haul, man.

That's like 40 years of development to arrive here.

Look, not complaining.

I don't know if I could have handled it any other time.

And obviously, I wasn't prepared to, but it did feel good to be out there and really be loose, but also just have this strange new thing to me, which is I can

be funny in the moment in a way that isn't like, oh, Jesus, what did he just say?

But just kind of roll with it.

And it's kind of great.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and it's obviously very hard for me to say it, is that

I might be enjoying myself doing what I've done my entire life, maybe for the first time in this way.

There you go.

I said it.

Don't tell anybody.

But that seems to be happening.

And it was

funny because I'm walking out and there's always like these guys who stand around and want you to sign things.

And the assumption is like, yeah, they're just going to sell it on eBay.

But I never really understood like how much could you really get

of me,

of a picture of me from the Joker where I did like, you know, one scene.

I mean, what

I, I guess some of them are just collecting them or maybe, you know, kind of storing them away for when I really hit.

You know, sometimes it's glow, sometimes it's bad guys or whatever.

You know, but now they come up to you and they've just got a blank piece of

photo

paper that I guess you put in a photo printer.

And it's just blank and you just sign it and then you don't want, you know, you don't know what picture they're going to put in there.

So I said to one of the guys, I'm like, I hope you put something good in there.

What are you going to put in there?

And he goes, glow.

And I'm like, is that the money maker?

He goes, I don't know.

I'm like, all right.

Well, that was a tremendous arc from me feeling tremendously good about myself and successful.

But hey, do what you can.

I hope it makes you a few bucks.

So Aquafina is here.

And

again, this is really the first time we've actually talked.

And it was great.

It was interesting.

And she's in the bad guys too.

And that's in theaters tomorrow.

And this is me talking to Aquafina.

What did I miss?

Are you all hungover?

Are you a mess?

No, not really.

No?

No.

what did I miss last night I I just had to go I couldn't stay for the premiere I just did the carpet because I did a music gig oh oh yeah right you were you were telling us yeah how was that it was great it was the best one cool I kind of felt bad though I don't want to be looked at as like not a team player or something why what do you mean like I didn't hang out and do the parties oh no no no don't worry about that yeah yeah we I think um I think everyone was kind of tired I don't think a lot of people went to the after party so yeah but who like who was supposed to go who was like who who who ran it?

Was it DreamWorks?

Um, yeah, I guess, I guess, yeah.

I guess it was, yeah.

It was, it was really good.

I went and I, I had, I downed like a whole, you know how they bring like a sample plate?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And you just ate the, uh, you just had food and got out of it.

Yeah, I chilled for a second, said, said hi to some people.

I don't think I've ever set foot in the, um,

in the chateau.

Oh, oh, you, I didn't go to the chateau.

Oh, you didn't?

Yeah, yeah.

No, I, I think maybe Craig stopped by.

You never went to the chateau?

I went like once a million years ago.

I drive by it all the time.

I don't know what it is.

Why I have an aversion to it because it's so

like it's so like cool.

I just don't go.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Have you spent time there?

Yeah, I started spending time there because I go to like events and like parties a lot.

Oh, right.

Yeah, yeah.

Is it as nice as it cool?

It's very cool.

Yeah.

You can really

get a sense of the history there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Days of the days of your, you know, yeah.

Old-timey Hollywood.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, not, you know,

70s maybe.

Well, yeah, there was that, but I feel like it's been there for a long time.

I don't really know the whole history of it.

You should go hang out there.

Did you watch the movie last night?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how is it the first time you saw it?

The whole thing?

It was good.

Your character is like insane.

It's good?

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's so good.

Yeah.

It played really well.

Yeah.

You and Natasha's relationship was so toxic.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah.

Definitely.

But it was cute.

Yeah, you got a lot of laughs.

Oh, good.

Got the laughs.

How did you do with the laughs?

Good?

Yeah, they were, you know, they got some chuckles here and there.

Who got the big laughs?

Craig?

Craig got some big laughs.

Anthony.

Anthony got some.

I mean, your character definitely did.

When he was like with the yoga and stuff, that was hilarious.

Yeah,

you guys, for sure.

It's so weird, isn't it, animation?

It is.

Have you done them before?

I've done quite a few.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

it feels like it's not really happening until they put the movie up.

Yeah.

You're just kind of like, yeah, you just go to this place for an hour or two, do the thing.

Yeah.

And I'm like, it's 10 minutes from my house.

Yeah, that's always great.

But it was fucking crazy.

And you just, I can't even sense it, like, how it's going to come together or what.

No.

But

I think it's going to be big.

Yeah, dude.

I mean,

it's already a huge franchise.

Kids love the

books.

Yeah.

And the movies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was a big event yesterday.

It was.

Yeah.

Shut down Hollywood Boulevard.

Yeah, it's always nice.

So I feel like generationally, we're a different age, and you seem to have this whole life and career.

And I somehow, it got away from me because I'm an old man.

Is that possible?

Like, you know, when you first became huge, I feel like, what year was that?

With the rep, with the my Vadge.

Oh, my, my Vadge.

That was probably like 2011, 2012.

Yeah.

And it was like, it wasn't on my radar.

And now, like, when I meet you and I met you before, I realized this huge presence and i like how did i i miss everything

yeah no i don't you you're a lot of people missed my badge oh they did yeah yeah it is pretty important culturally it's a culturally historic moment it is a historic it's a landmark of my song yeah i'm performing it at the rock and roll hall of fame come on

um but yeah i think everyone feels like that like what you just described i know it's hard to keep up with everything but like i i felt like bad about it at some point where i'm like gosh because you're so funny in the movies and i'm like how can I not know almost anybody?

No.

It's just like it gets by me sometimes.

And then when I realize it,

I feel like I've,

even without saying it, I've insulted somebody.

Well, no, I think you're cool because I think

you treat everyone the same.

You know what I mean?

Because you can see some people turn when they find, they're just like, oh, you know, they kind of

shift it a little bit.

Yeah.

Well, I think from doing this show, I've learned to do that.

That, you know, people are just people and some of them are shitty, but they are just people.

Right, right.

But you grew up in New York?

Grew up in Queens, yeah.

Like, what part of Queens?

Forest Hills.

So, like, I lived in Astoria for a while.

Oh, no way.

Yeah, cool.

And Queens is its own world.

It is.

And I don't, like, have, do you still have family there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

My dad still lives there.

Oh, your dad?

Yeah.

My grandma lives like in Great Neck, which is really close to Queens.

Well, that's nice.

Yeah.

Greatneck's like kind of like, that's on the island, correct?

Yeah, the old Great Gatsby, East and West Egg.

Yeah, yeah, it's yeah.

And when I was growing up, it used to be kind of Jewy.

I don't know if it is anymore.

As a Jew, I knew that people...

Isn't it one of the five towns or is it not?

They're the five towns in Long Island that were like, you know, predominantly Jewish for a while, but I don't think they are anymore.

I don't know what's going on out there.

Did you grow up in New York?

I grew up in New Mexico.

Oh, cool.

With the families from Jersey.

Had cousins out there in Long Island, and I always felt very connected to New York.

yeah do you feel i do you feel a specific connection i always feel like some people are in new york some people aren't i feel i feel definitely a connection and but you know not to just like times square you know what i mean like no no yeah yeah it's a deep connection for like you know the kind of the off the off-root sure like

well queens has its whole its own thing yeah i mean like when i was in astoria it was like astounding what was going on there culturally i mean i had no idea what was like from block to block you're like where am i what is happening totally why are whole families shopping for vegetables at 3 a.m.?

How does that fucking happen?

Why is there a short film contest at the bar right across?

Yeah.

Who's over there?

Yeah.

Has it gotten hip?

I don't think it got hip.

It's pretty hip.

The story is.

It is lit.

It's happening.

Yeah, it's been happening.

You know, the Steinway and 36th Street, right?

Yeah, but I missed it.

I was at Steinway and like 30th Avenue, and it was not happening.

Oh, really?

You're on Steinway?

I was on 37th Street and 30th Avenue.

So it was like one block down from Steinway.

Oh, that's cool.

Or two.

Did you go to the Museum of the Moving Image?

Yeah.

Of course.

But then, like, you go left on Steinway, it's all Egyptian, and then you go right on the Egyptian.

And hookah bars, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, like, you go a little deeper into Queens, it's like Jamaican, then Dominican, and then like

Asian, then Indian.

It's crazy.

It is.

What was your neighborhood like?

My neighborhood was

actually like predominantly, was predominantly Jewish, actually,

to the point where when I was like 11, I met like a, a, maybe a little bit younger.

No, I met her for my first like not Jewish person.

Right.

And

I remember being like arguing with her a little bit and I was like, yeah, right.

I mean, obviously everyone's Jewish, like, you know, if you're white.

And she was like, not Jewish.

It was like, it was like ridiculous.

I was like, okay.

Racist.

But yeah, it was, it was predominantly Jewish.

And then I guess it became more Asian over the years.

Really?

Yeah.

Was it like Orthodox or just regular Jews?

You know, I had Orthodox neighbors neighbors in my building, but then, you know, Gentiles as well.

Yeah, but I think that's like the interesting thing about New York is that like you do have entire global civilization all within one building.

A thousand percent.

And everybody's always on top of each other.

There's people all around.

And the way it gets judged is like, it must be horrible.

No, it's great.

Yeah.

It's fucking great.

It's awesome.

So what was it like?

How did you grow up?

How many people in the house?

I, well, so my mom passed away when I was four, four, and then I lived with my dad for a little bit, but then he was, he was, it was hard for me to be a single dad and working.

So I lived with my grandma.

My grandma had a restaurant in Long Island that went bankrupt, and then she had to move like from this big house to like an apartment essentially in the building that my dad lived in.

Yeah, yeah.

And she had a one-bedroom, so it was me, her, my grandpa, and like a one-bedroom apartment.

And do you have memories of your mom at all?

Like, yeah, like weird silhouettes, if you will.

Yeah, like vignettes of it.

Yeah.

Like just weird moments.

Yeah.

I remember like some nights really specifically.

I remember one night really specifically.

And like, what happened?

I like couldn't go to sleep and she was showing me like the,

well, I was obsessed with gorillas in the mist

when I was like a baby.

I could not stop watching it.

So she showed me.

like the Wizard of Oz and I remember being like cranky because I was sleepy.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's kind of amazing, you know, how the the memory works and then like how did have you like do you see have you seen a lot of pictures of her and stuff yeah so and does it kind of like it's hard to integrate like what's your memory and what is just like from after yeah for sure i actually went to korea recently on on this she was korean she was she was yeah she was like an immigrant from korea she came for like art school oh wow um i was at i was at a i was doing a anthony's show no tastes like home and you get to meet it's kind of like a you know back to your roots kind of yeah yeah yeah and i got to see pictures of her from like grade school because they found her like high school friends.

I had never seen her at that age and she looked like a lot like me.

And I was sitting with her two friends who didn't speak English and the translator.

And I was like, oh, wow.

And they were like, you look like her.

We're all crying.

And I was like, oh, they were like, you look like her.

And I was like, oh, yeah, no.

And then

one of them was like, she was like prettier, though.

And then I was like, and then I went to the translator.

I was like, the translator was like, said it to me.

And I was like, oh, you know, because you they probably say that because like she's dead you know

and then it's like no we they don't say that they like like she you know she's definitely prettier than you yeah yeah there's yeah you like went to her hometown I did in South Korea yeah yeah it wasn't it was just a really intense experience though because those shows are usually like you know someone like finding out like that their family came into Ellis Island years ago, but this was like my mom.

So it was, it would just, it was, it felt like a couple generations too close, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

So it's not like finding your roots where you just sit there and he has a book.

Yeah, no.

Go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was a book involved.

I guess they always need a book in the book.

And they give you the book and then you have it.

There was a record of my, of my, there's a like certain families in in Korea, they keep a record of like everyone that got married.

And ours goes back like to the 1500s.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it goes back to the, it's like crazy.

But then when it got to my mom's generation, she was one of seven and they had written her out of the book because she moved to America and married a Chinese guy.

And that was like a taboo.

That was like a no-no.

That was a big no-no.

Yeah.

That was a big, yeah.

And she wanted, and what did what kind of art she do?

She made like huge paintings that were really like tortured 70s colors of naked women running away.

Naked, all kinds of naked women.

In flight.

Totally.

Yeah, there's one where I'm just like, what?

As a child, I was like, what the fuck is this?

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

So it wasn't like it wasn't hinged to any kind of traditional art.

She was really a modern painter.

Yeah.

In Korea, they just, at that time, her story was that they just want you to be able to replicate anything and draw with precision.

Yeah.

And I guess like the Abex movement was happening in the United States, and she loved like Susannah Rothenberg as one of her favorite people.

Oh, the Liberal horses.

Yeah, the fragmented horses.

That was her favorite artist.

Oh, she was great.

Yeah, dude.

Oh, my God.

I wonder what happened to her.

I think she passed.

Did she?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I remember seeing those at the Whitney or something, or it was in one of the biennials.

I really thought I dug her stuff.

Yeah.

And that was your mom's person, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

She was, she was like obsessed.

So I think she wanted to do more abstract.

And that's why she left Korea?

Yeah, she wanted to do art school in the United States.

Yeah.

That's so fucking good.

It's not the general Asian tale I hear of people's upbringing.

Oh, not at all.

It's usually like they just expected so much.

There was nothing I could do to please them.

No, it's so true.

It's so true.

Oh, you got off easy in a way.

I'm sorry she passed away, but

at least the history is like this, you know, abstract artist and not like a disappointed person.

Yeah, no, it sounds like something like Chat GPT wrote or something.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Do you have any of her paintings?

I do.

I do.

We have all of them, yeah.

And they're huge?

Yeah, they're they're massive.

They're huge.

And, you know, those kind of like 70s greens and oranges.

Sure.

Have you put together a show of her stuff?

You know,

it's so weird because my dad, like, I guess met someone at his work and they, you know, they know he's my dad.

And this woman came up to him and was like, we should do an art show of your mom's stuff.

And he told me about that because my mom really trusted him with like keeping the art preserved.

Your dad?

My dad.

So my dad has taken such good care of them over these years.

He doesn't take care of literally anything.

Oh, yeah.

But yeah, so he was approached by this coworker who was like, I want to put on a wipe show, an art show of your wife's paintings.

And my reaction at that time, because I didn't understand art to that level yet, I was like...

I was like, dad, that's so exploitative.

Like, why, like, why would you do that?

Like, that is, what are you going to like sell mom's art for what, like, like 35 bucks?

Like, and where the fuck are we going to do this?

Like,

we're going to go to Flushing Meadow.

Like, where are we going to do this and i was i was so angry at him and then i how old were you then

this was probably

i mean maybe maybe like six or seven years ago oh really yeah and so like i and then i met someone in like the art world and we became friends uh like what well you know we we kind of dated yeah but you know i think that like

Basically, I learned that art is like all artists wanted is their art to be seen.

they don't want it locked up in a in a cooling store except they and when I realized that I felt I felt bad and and and so yeah I was like I'm sorry dad I screamed at you and took you to court you know you took them to court no no no no

that's so like impressive in a way because my mom was a painter too no way yeah and but you know they toil away and you know they never reach the point where they want to reach and your your mom passed away and my mom just sort of gave it up but there's all these really kind of uh you know visceral and aggressive, you know, attempts to express yourself and they just exist in the world.

And, you know, what do you do with it?

So are you going to do a show?

I, I mean, yeah.

Why not?

Just find a space.

I've talked to some people about it.

I, Sandra O is like a really good friend.

Oh, yeah, she's great.

Yeah.

She set me up with a

person that she.

I mean, you don't have to sell them.

Yeah.

You can just have someone look at them.

Yeah.

That's all I want.

That's all I want is it to be seen.

I think that would be like really cool.

Yeah.

And you could like, it'd be like, it's an interesting kind of community thing, too.

I mean, like, because I don't, how many like Asian modern art painters, there's a lot of them now, but it seemed like she was sort of at the cutting edge of it or what maybe.

Yeah, I mean, it was so unexpected.

I think now being an Asian woman, understanding kind of like what those kind of, what those kind of like models for what you, you know, what those are.

Yeah.

Like, and what she was painting.

I remember when I was young, she'd bring, you know, like kind of like busty, you know, like

models.

And my dad would have to take me to the park because they're just naked.

You know, probably for his, himself.

Yeah, he was like, oh, yeah.

I should go.

He had binoculars.

Yeah, I know.

What did your dad do?

He did I.T.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

And what's it, what is it?

What kind of restaurant did your grandma have?

Well, my, my great-grandpa opened, it's like the first Chinese restaurant in Flushing, basically.

Really?

That was a big institution.

Yeah.

If you have family that still lives there that uh they've been there was alive in like the 70s they definitely went yeah what was it called lums yeah yeah and it was the place it was it was happening dude the mets went there all the time yeah so it was like high-end

yeah high-end it was more experiential like a benny hana but chinese you know like they had like a an arhu player when you walk in something like that yeah so he was like a predecessor to mr chow

um no i think mr chow was like his own mr chow was like mr chow yeah this was like, yeah.

But yeah.

And then my grandma started one in a strip mall in Long Island that went bankrupt.

Was it good, though?

It was all right.

I don't remember.

It was probably all right.

Really, it's all the same shit.

Do you feel like

your drive to get into the arts was directly relative to your mom?

I mean, I think that it might have given me the

idea that that is a viable.

You can do whatever you you want yeah I mean to be an artist like what she was doing it takes a degree of entitlement too it's like it's so and risk right it's total risk but it's like you know like it's one of those bets that no one's gonna really support you and on in your life right your

spouse your family could run from Korea yeah yeah and that must have been scary to end up with my my dad who's great but like you know very neurodivergent, you know, and I think that she was, she definitely missed home a lot.

How did she end up with him?

I mean, she was like a cool like art student from South Korea, a bit older than my dad.

Where did she go?

They met at New Paul's, Zuna New Paul's.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So my dad was like, basically, my dad was like obsessed with her and

younger.

And yeah.

She was younger?

She was younger.

Oh, really?

And he is obsessed.

Well, I mean, if you're obsessed and you're not dangerous and you're persistent, sometimes it delivers.

No, for sure.

Yeah.

You can annoy somebody into loving you eventually.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Can you still in 2025?

I think so.

I think people are still wired the same way.

You know, you just say there's different ways to do it.

I don't think you can do it online so much because then it's just creepy.

Right, right, right.

But I think when people are in love with people and the other person isn't quite sure about it, they keep showing up.

Sometimes it works out.

Yeah.

No, that's true.

Because maybe I am in love with you.

I just don't know it.

So thank you for selling me on it.

There are people that if you don't keep showing up, they literally forget about you.

Oh, yeah.

So you have to, and maybe that's the fear of what, and then it prompts people to anxiously show up for it all the time.

Yeah.

So has he just been like kind of a heartbroken guy the whole time?

He definitely was for years.

Yeah.

He would, I would wake up and he'd be listening to REM

on the floor with the socks on the headphones.

And I'd be like,

dad, come on.

R.E.M.

He's like, why you got to listen to REM out of all, you know?

Just wanted to be in the sadness.

Yeah.

I was like, like, they make singles on vinyl, everybody heard them.

It's like, what are you just rewinding to that song constantly?

Like, what's going on?

Yeah.

Do you have siblings?

No.

Only child.

Yeah.

How was that?

Man, it was, it was lonesome, dude.

You see some shit as an only child.

You really.

You know, I've poked at only children a lot.

Like, like, yeah, what you say about them.

But I'm always wrong.

Cause, like, my, my theory on it was like, if you're an only child, it's a lot of pressure because there's no other siblings.

Yeah.

That you've got to like really show up and,

you know, not disappoint your parents and not die.

And, you know,

it's crazy.

I didn't, I really never cared about disappointing my parents in that way.

And only, I felt like it was a, it was just kind of sad.

But then I didn't want siblings either.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you see when you say you see some shit?

What do you mean?

You just see all kinds of.

like, you know,

you know, people playing mahjong in a laundromat because, you know, and I don't know, I feel like in New York, it was always like a bloody shoe somewhere, you know what I mean?

And, like, you had no one really to say ill with, you know what I mean?

Like, you just had to take it.

You just internalize it.

You're just like, oh, that's a disgusting pigeon that was completely run over.

And, yeah.

No one to kind of like have, like, well, I guess when you have siblings at a certain age, you can always kind of, you know, have them, whether they're beating you up or not, you can at least commiserate.

Yeah.

And when you think about like, like, just, just,

like, what your body's going through when you're a kid and my raised by my grandma like literally she'd be like like she would like give me witch hazel yeah you know what I mean like and she's like you got to use this witch hazel and I'm like why yeah for what was that for

I think just like for all kinds of I don't know what what it's for but yeah you put it on your body and stuff yeah so there's a generational difference and and she was also had like a cultural specificity about her things yeah she worked in the exchange cart unit and just stole all the ingredients like in all the supplies So she had, you know, my

yeah, she was a horrible things.

But you got along with her.

Oh, I love my grandmother.

She's my best friend, dude.

Yeah.

Your grandmother?

Yeah, but it, you know, she's, it's really sad.

She's like getting old now.

So it's it's hard.

Yeah.

And like and she I mean, I guess like to like to show up, you know, and fill that void, that must have been like a big deal.

And yeah.

What did she and did she were they all always supportive of the creative

kind of focus you had?

My dad was so like let down that I, or you know what, not even let down, just angry that I would like really think that like a career in music at that time would work.

Yeah.

And he would, he signed me up for all these government services that give you the job listings.

Like he really wanted me to be a meat inspector, a sonogram technician, or a

like a tower control people.

Air traffic?

An air traffic control, yeah, because they make a lot of money in the entrance fee.

So he kept sending me, like, spamming with all this stuff.

But my grandma, like,

when I, when I was like, I loved musicals when I was like 13, she would bring me to music lessons.

Like,

yeah, she always, she never could support it.

Yeah.

Thank God you had a lifesaver.

I know, literally, because the air traffic controllers is.

Well, it's weird.

My grandfather was like that with civil service.

He's like, you know, you should get a job at the post office.

You get a good

benefits.

Right.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

Well, yeah, I mean, that was usually their whole thing was this security thing.

Right.

So they find these angles, and for some reason, they always went to the government.

And it's like, I don't want to.

Like, you got to work for the city.

You want to hit on crack it?

Work for those.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because they think that you're going to get this package where you're going to have benefits for the rest of your life.

I can't even imagine.

It's a very working-class state of mind.

It's just like a case.

Yeah, I guess.

You're right.

You're right.

You know, but I, and I think they, they're, they're well-intended, but Jesus,

open your mind a little bit.

Yeah.

So it was music at first?

I mean, honestly, it was,

yeah, yeah.

I mean, I always liked doing like

funny stuff.

And at that time, I was making music, other music, like, like therapeutically.

That's, I got into music.

I went to high school for the trumpet.

And then, like...

Did you go to that fancy one?

Yeah, LaGuardia.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can you still play?

Yeah, but you know, you don't want to, right?

Because your neighbors know and you don't want them.

You know, you're somewhere else.

You're a jazz person?

No, no, not necessarily.

I just played super loud and I like my band teacher loved me.

So when we did like live in La Vita Loca, like I was always

first chair and like really,

jazz is harder a little bit.

So when you went to what's it called, LaGuardia?

LaGuardia, yeah.

Yeah, the fame school.

Yeah.

I mean, most people, including myself, only know it, you know, from the movie.

Yeah.

But I imagine that must have been a mind-opening experience.

That, yeah, that was that was really crazy to go from like, you know, the public school system in Queens to like literally going to Lincoln Center every single day.

Great, right?

Yeah, it was cool.

It was cool.

It was intimidating for sure.

Why?

Because all the, you know, you're you're passing Juilliard on the way to school.

You're, you know, I'm taking the one train at like 13.

It's like, yeah.

A lot of pressure.

Yeah, everyone's smoking cigarettes after they come out and stuff.

It was, and everyone's like so cool because they're all like fashion

people.

Yeah.

And they already know at that age that they want to be in the arts.

So I just like, because art kids are always the best.

I mean, you must have been like, you know, influenced by people there.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

What did you start to get into?

I think that was when I

got into, you know, I think, I feel like a lot, like it was a kind of, like, all the guys were obsessed with like underground hip-hop

atmosphere.

Yeah.

So I, I, I, you know, people under, I started to really get into like kind of of indie hip hop.

Indie hip-hop.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and and I guess what else did I get into?

Um,

I guess like cutting class

constantly and not not so much weed.

Yeah.

Who are your other artist influences?

Like music, music, anything.

Writers, artists.

Um,

I mean, this is gonna sound, I love like, like Anius Nin.

Yeah.

I love Mark Manson.

Yeah.

Which is like, no one wants to hear that.

What does he do?

I don't know him.

He does that book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah.

Have you?

No, I've heard of it.

Okay.

Yeah, he has some bangers in there, though.

People don't, yeah.

Is it like a philosophy text?

It's like a crass

self-help book for men or for whoever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you took some.

I love.

Yeah.

I mean, he has this whole thing about like your greatest joy will also give you the greatest pain.

Yeah.

So they kind of go hand in hand.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

That's true, right?

It's so, yeah, it's so true.

Oh, my God.

Joy, that's evasive.

Yeah, yeah.

I hate joy.

Yeah.

Joy sucks, really.

I question it at all times.

Yeah, but that's why it's the worst.

It is kind of like the worst emotion.

I feel like Brene Brown said something like that.

Joy is, and I always thought that was an Asian thing because joy is the signal that something horrible is going to happen immediately.

That's part of the Asian philosophy.

Yeah, yeah.

That was actually a saying.

Well, that's good.

I'm glad I avoided at all costs, the joy.

I have no idea.

Why?

I don't know.

I don't really know if I can identify it.

I do have moments where I feel at peace a bit, you know?

And I think last night, even when I was playing music, I guess there was some joy there because I was nailing it.

Yeah.

And I don't usually nail it.

But I guess, because it's not my primary thing.

Like, I play, but now I've started over the last couple of years to play with people.

And that's a whole other thing.

And to, you know, to kind of work as a group and stuff.

Sure.

And there were just like moments last night where I'm like, this is good.

And I guess that's as close as you get to joy as a creative person.

It's like, hey, I'm doing it.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Literally.

Do you have joy?

The definition of joy, I think, changes, right?

Like, I think, well, no, I think, like, I mean, you're clearly, you're an amazing musician.

I know you're an amazing guitarist.

Yeah.

Okay.

But, like, of course, you're going to feel joy in those moments.

Yeah.

It's not necessarily like,

it's funny where you derive joy from.

Well, you can't, well, you can't, I guess you can't like I, the idea of like, you know, pursuing joy, it's just like, how do you even fucking do that?

And you can't live in it.

It's like happiness.

I don't know.

I think I'm at an age where all these questions are becoming kind of pressing as I get older.

It's sort of like, dude, you're running out of time.

You better get that happy thing going.

Yeah, you're just getting started.

Yeah, and that's the person that said when we're going to fly on a private plane on Saturday, they go down all the time.

They do.

I brought it up again today.

I've never been on a private plane and we're going to go down to Comic-Con for the bad guys.

And you're like, oh man,

they go down all the time.

I mean, I'm not going to lie.

It's a lovely

convenience and privilege when you get to especially ride with a lot of like your, you know, it's being done.

Well, who's the go?

Is everyone going?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think so.

We're all going to be on that plane.

I think so.

Well, you know, we hopefully we don't have too many bags on it.

No, I'm not going to bring a bag.

We're going for like a few hours.

Yeah.

Well, it's crazy.

Yeah.

It'll be fun, though.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

I'll take your word for it.

So

so you never really pursued the trumpet as the thing?

No.

I feel like

and I don't, I didn't want, I mean, there was a part of me that would be like,

you know, like my like holy grail would be making it to like the pit of the Lion King, but that would never happen.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So it was really about musicals i love i love musicals i like being able to do so like what you were saying about the guitar i like being able to just like play yeah that was always fun i and even in an ensemble with with everyone out in a band it's yeah yeah that that that always gave me joy yeah yeah so when does the shift happen to where you're you know you start like doing the other thing the funny business and i guess it started musically right yeah yeah i mean i i think after a while you know because you you get you're the best trumpet player in your middle school and and then when you go to high school, you're like the 50th best trumpet player in the school.

Especially at an arts high school.

Yeah, I know, for sure.

And

I think that I started to kind of resent like the arts being like

the academia.

Like you don't want to, I felt like it was weird to take something that felt so like personal and like really just

like there's a lot of material there and it's me.

It's like my, it's like my soul.

Yeah.

And then putting it into a book and then being tested on it.

I felt like it it was just an impossible medium.

And so like I, I started to feel less like it was personal.

I felt like I was just trying to compete with people I'll never be able to be better than.

And then

I just started like messing around with GarageBand when it first came out.

Like when you go to college, everyone gets like a MacBook or something.

I started doing that.

And I remember when I was first making songs, I was like, it is going to take me like 15 years for these to actually sound good and normal.

But i i still like obsessively do that and then yeah and i i was like because i'm i'm a serious person but then i i also like i like writing i like being comedic too yeah um and so when that music i made that song and then like three years later um a guy that i knew said like we should make a music video out of it yeah out of the my vag song yeah and that was based on another song my dick oh yeah yeah see like that stuff i don't know i don't know that world yeah that's okay it seems like i should know my dick.

That should be in my cultural repertoire.

Well, you do know quite a lot.

Yeah, I know, but like, was that a big hit, my dick?

Yeah, it was a big hit.

It was a big hit.

It was in that movie.

I feel like it was Harold and Kumar.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

You know who those guys are.

Yeah, I know who those guys are.

Okay, cool.

I don't know if I know.

I don't know if I saw the movies, but I know who they are.

What's your favorite movie?

That's a good question.

I don't know.

There's a lot of them.

What's a movie that you can watch?

Michael Clayton.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

That's a good movie.

That's a good movie.

That's a great movie.

Yeah.

And

I can watch,

you know,

I have weird movies lately because I've gotten more sentimental.

I don't know if they're great movies, but I can watch The Devil Where's Prada at any moment.

Really?

I didn't know.

I thought you were going to say like Advocate or something, and then I ended with Where's that's a good one.

Yeah, that's a great one.

They're redoing it right now.

Are they?

Oh, really?

They're shooting the sequel.

Yeah, there's certain movies where people who are heavy characters, when they do something light, I'm kind of impressed with it.

Like I re-watched the fucking intern the other day with De Niro and Ann Hathaway.

Oh, yeah, that actually was a good one.

It's good.

It was really enjoyable.

I like to see De Niro kind of lock into something lighter

and still bring all of his stuff to it.

It's kind of great.

I think what we're finding is that Anne Hathaway has an impact on me.

I think, yeah, that sounds have you seen the Princess Diaries or I have not.

Okay.

All right.

But yeah, and

I'll watch the Scorsese movies whenever they're on.

And I watched Paris, Texas again recently that I hadn't seen that.

Oh, yeah.

Since I was in high school.

Yeah, it's a banger, too.

Yeah, and I realized I'd missed the entire plot of the movie.

I don't think that does, that's not that hard to, that's hard to do.

Not that hard to do.

Well, it's weird because that movie, like, like when I went to high school, it seems like you're in the same boat.

there there were very grown-up things that i really felt like i got you you know what i mean like i read somewhere that you're a Bukowski person yeah I love yeah but like when did you get turned on to that how did that happen

my dad had his a collection of his poetry and he only had like books in the yeah it was the poems first and then it was like factotum and yeah like yeah but his poems still get me dude like they're

so there's notes of a dirty old man that's that's the book too yep yeah the the stories like memoir things Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

And

you were reading that as a kid?

Your dad sounds like an interesting guy, despite the

kind of nerdy

way you presented him.

I mean, between R.E.M.

and Bukowski, that's pretty cool.

Oh, yeah.

No, he's he's he, yeah,

he's cool.

Yeah, I started reading it then.

It was just different than everything else that I read.

Well, the poetry is very straightforward.

Yeah, I love it.

It's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he really paints a picture of like just a disgusting hotel downtown, you know.

Yeah, and it's it's all L.A.

stuff, too.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there was one, the book I had was, what is it, Burning in Water, Drowning in Flame?

It was a collection of poems.

And he was on that press that made the really nice covers, you know, for what, you know, all the books looked really cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It was always like a silhouette of like his like kind of face.

That was on the notes of.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry.

That was that black and white

with his pockmarked face.

Looked like the cover of the giver.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're like, how could this not be great?

Right, right, totally.

So that must have blown your mind anias nin blew my mind dude what about it her it was just it was like i don't think i've ever read that was my first like i guess female writer that like really went there yeah yeah yeah and and like i have now a book of her quotes and she is i mean like yeah live laugh love dude yeah i also saw like henry and june is that what it's called yeah when i was like really little yeah

what is this yeah yeah yeah yeah that was uh that's a good movie yeah that guy made some was that a Kaufman movie?

Same guy who did the right stuff, I think.

Like, he's, he was a pretty good director.

Why, what's your favorite movie?

Um, oh, man.

You can't make one.

It's very hard, you know, because I just, the Criterion channel wants me to, or no, not, not Criterion.

The closet.

You're, you know, I did that.

But American Cinematech out here wants me to host a movie.

Oh, cool.

So I made this list.

Yeah.

What's on it?

McCabe and Mrs.

Miller.

Okay.

Which I think is great.

Yeah.

And then also another Altman movie, Nashville, I thought would be great.

Oh my god, Nashville is so good.

Right?

Nashville is so good.

It's just like for me, when I host those things, it's just the opportunity to see them on 35.

Yeah.

And, you know, have it really screened.

The last time I did it last year, I did Dog Day Afternoon.

Oh, hell yeah.

And to see that on, you know, as a movie.

Oh, that's so cool.

It was great.

And then I added a couple other ones, like some Denzel movies.

I get a little obsessed with Denzel sometimes.

Which, which,

well, Training Day.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It was great.

But I'm not like a,

I don't like these kind of movies necessarily, but I can watch the equalizers.

Oh, what do you like?

Yeah.

I'm not like a John Wick guy or a born guy or whatever, but Denzel, like, you know, full-on Denzel, when he can really do it, it's the fucking best.

The bone collector

and the Pelham thing that I talked about.

Oh, yeah, I was talking about the other day.

Taking a Pelham, the remake.

Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

Have you seen the original one?

I have seen the original.

It's great.

Yeah.

It's so, that whole premise, it's kind of, in my opinion, like almost like a better speed, if you will.

Totally.

You know, because there's more stakes.

Yeah, and Robert Shaw.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Best.

Totally.

So you do my Vadge, and then like, what, everything blows up?

No, it was.

It was, it was kind of just like this weird, like it ended up on BuzzFeed.

You know, I was still working at a vegan bodega in Green Point.

Okay.

And so then I came out with another one called NYC Bitches.

Yeah.

And because I think people just thought it was going to be OneNote.

That went, that did well.

And then I got cast in Girl Code,

which is an MTV show.

Yeah.

And then from there, I kind of, I didn't really have a manager.

So I asked all the, all the, like, I was asking people for recommendations.

And I think like a lot of comedians,

especially at that time for that show, they don't like to really share their team.

And there was one guy that kind of represented all the girls and they were all huge stars.

I was like, I don't know if I want to go to him.

But Annie Letterman, do you know who Annie Letterman?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

So she was on the show with me and she was like, like, she really did me a solid.

She was like, you can, you can, you should talk to my manager.

I think he can help you.

Oh, really?

And I'm still with him today.

Who's that?

His name's E.

Tai.

Etai Rice.

Yeah.

Annie Letterman.

Yeah, I see her all the time.

I know Annie, like, is that, that's my girl.

She's the best.

Yeah, she is literally the best.

I was telling you the other day, it's like, Annie's literally the best.

She's so cool.

She's so deep.

But I feel like I've seen multiple scenarios where she's just being chased out of of a of a hall by like five girls are like what what the fuck annie like why would you say that because she she has no no filter she has no filter but she's one of the funniest people i've literally ever met yeah she i met her and she opened for me like in philly and i think she's from there right yeah she is yeah so we're driving her mom had some kind of business and we were driving around her mom's business car and they had i can't remember what it was it was something not ebay but something in that zone and i really took a liking to her and i and i helped her get in the comedy store out here.

So I see her all the time.

I just did her podcast recently.

No way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you guys still hang out?

I saw her a couple days ago.

Yeah, yeah.

She is like one of those people where you're like, uh-oh, here it comes.

What am I going to get?

Totally.

She always says something you can't even be offended because it's like, that was so good.

And yeah.

Yeah, just

the sort of like intense lack of boundaries.

Totally.

And then the ability to laugh at herself, which I think is really important.

Yeah, she's great.

Now, wait, so when did you change your name from Nora to Aquafina?

In high school, technically, before any, like before the music video came out.

How is that like a thing that one does in high school?

Change your name?

Well, legally.

No, it was a discussion.

No, I mean, just like

I was awkward and fine.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

But it was based on how things are presented.

Like, imagine meeting someone named Neutrogena.

Yeah, right.

You know, like, you know,

she was really pretty in high school.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And it just stuck.

Yeah.

But do your friends call you Nora?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's not, it's, is it like an alter ego or just a name?

I think it used to be for, I think, like the narrative that was like being asked, like, everyone always asked it if it was that.

But now I can see it for what it is.

It's, it's, we're the same.

It's like, yeah, it's just a name and it's it's uh unique.

Yeah.

And it's singular.

It's one name.

Yeah, it's one name.

People really don't know what they, what is on the other side of that name, but yeah.

So what happens once he gets a manager?

I got a manager.

He kind of sorted out stuff with like at that time,

it was the beginning days of like when I started, like the idea of my show started to, you know, kind of be.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I, you know, he asked me, like, what do you want to do?

And I was like, yeah, I would love to, I want to.

be in movies.

So we've got auditions and stuff like that.

Yeah, and the show went on for a long time.

Where did you put that show up?

How did that work?

It was Comedy Comedy Central.

Oh, the girl from Queens one?

Yeah, yeah.

And that lasted for how many seasons?

Three.

So like 30 episodes or more?

I think the second, the third one, we had about like seven or eight, maybe a couple less.

And that was a hit?

I don't know if it was a hit.

We did well some of the

what are those things called the the numbers?

Yeah, yeah, the ratings.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was cool.

I don't know.

I mean, I always really appreciate people that like

I've actually watched it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And so, but it must have been like at the time.

What year was that?

2000, like

19.

Oh, really?

Yeah, maybe even before.

I think we filmed the first one in like, like around the time I filmed the farewell.

Yeah.

Oh, really?

At the same time.

Yeah.

Because it took so long for it to be green lit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like, but did you find that, you know, you built an audience of,

I mean, because it seems like if you have a point of view and it is,

you know, you're coming from somewhat of the Asian perspective, but just being an Asian person,

that anytime there's representation, it's sort of like, oh, we have one.

Yeah.

And did you find that with your audience?

I mean, yeah, yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Because I think I also, you know, I'm not poised.

You know what I mean?

And so I think that if you're just like a kind of a, you know, just a, just a kind of regular, degular Asian girl that like it, that's awkward.

And like crass in New York.

Yeah, and that too.

Yeah.

I think that that was, that was cool.

I think just to see that there's a flavor in us, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And you never did stand-up?

Never did stand-up.

No, I was, I was intimidated by stand-up.

Yeah, because I bet you could draw a crowd, huh?

Yeah, but I feel like at this point, it would have to be some kind of like fringe festival.

Like right, right.

You can't do a whole

person show, yeah.

Something like that.

Yeah.

An Asian American, Elaine Stritch, yeah, yeah, well, it's probably a good story there, yeah, you know, you could do like you know, Margaret Cho used to do it.

That, I mean, Margaret Cho, that's my, like, yeah, that was my representation, dude.

I never seen an Asian woman on TV that spoke in an American accent, yeah, ever.

Really?

Yeah, did you, did you know her comedy?

Yeah, yeah, because she gets pretty dirty, she gets so dirty when she talks about her mom and stuff.

It's still, after all these years, and I've known her for many, her mom is still hilarious.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah, isn't it when she does her mom?

Yeah, and her dad.

Yeah, one of my favorite ones of hers, like when her dad punched his friend or something.

I don't remember, but it was really funny.

Yeah, she's great.

Yeah.

So, the farewell, I didn't realize happened so early on.

I mean, like, well, it's after Crazy Rich Asian, you've done some stuff, but that was a deep part.

Yeah.

And then she got nominated for Golden Globe.

I won.

You won.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what it was?

It's, it, it's, it didn't, it, that filming experience felt like documentary.

It felt like it was me.

I said lines.

And so there are other roles that might be emotional where maybe there was an Asian American nurse that like all, you know, that I have trouble with.

Oh, really?

It's really hard for me to do.

So it was really close to who you were.

It felt really natural to play like an Asian American girl that's negotiating between.

you know, her family in China and her family in America.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you, have you been to China?

Yeah.

Yes.

Where'd you go?

We filmed that there in

the Chinese China where your actual grandma lived.

And then I was in Beijing.

I did like a, my best friend was, was a Greek girl

that went to NYU.

Yeah.

And she was going to go in for that summer and I went with her to Beijing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was there once.

Oh, yeah, where?

Right in Beijing.

Nice.

What did you think about it?

It was, honestly.

Well, as somebody, I obviously don't have roots there, but when I got there, it really felt like like a different world.

Yes, a thousand percent.

And at the time, the air quality was bad.

Yep, yep.

And also, I noticed there's the things that made an impression on me, like there's so many different kinds of bicycle kind of vehicles around.

Yeah, for sure.

And people were like getting shaves and haircuts in the street.

I noticed that.

Yeah.

And there were just markets with all kinds of weird animals.

I really,

it was completely a culture shock.

I had no idea.

The culture shock is so real when you're there and even weirder when you come back because what was what was like alien to you before now feels so familiar that when you come back to the United States and there's

it's really weird.

Yeah, and also like because I went out, I saw the Forbidden City.

Oh, yeah, nice.

Yeah.

Forbidden City is great.

And yeah.

It's wild.

Sometimes it's a little scary in there with the statues.

Yeah.

But I noticed maybe it was because of

the government now that it was a little dusty.

Like the upkeep on it was not essentially great, I thought.

I actually, you know, I actually remember that when I went there,

I was like, this is a huge grounds.

And then you see like one-on-one person with that hat.

Yeah.

And like the, it's like a broomstick with like three hairs on it.

Yeah.

And they're dusting.

Yeah.

No, that's just.

They're kind of like, well, we got to leave it.

But, you know, we don't want it to take too much power.

And I almost died on the Great Wall, actually.

Yeah, the Great Wall is hard.

It's a hard one.

Well, they had this like ride.

There was like

a, it was, it was literally like a sled in a gutter where you could go up on it and you just get in it and you kind of just go.

And I just did it and there was no safety precautions.

Like alone?

Well, I was with another comic because we were doing comedy there, but you go on the thing alone.

And I didn't know how to operate it.

There was only one thing to slow it down.

And as I was coming down at the bottom, they were yelling something, but it was in Chinese.

And they were yelling for me to slow down, but I didn't know.

I thought they were saying, go, go, go.

Oh, no.

And it just plowed into all these other families.

Oh, no.

It was fucked up.

Like a bowling ball, or were they on the same course?

And you just kind of like.

Well, I was coming into the bottom and there was like these two cars with this family getting out and I just slammed right into them.

Thank God nothing happened, but it was memorable.

Yeah, that imagery is crazy.

And I went to the place where Peking Duck came from, but now it's Beijing Duck.

And that was pretty cool.

Beijing is Peking.

It's the same.

Yeah, no, I know.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I know, but they changed it.

You know, they don't, you know, it's not called Peking Duck.

Oh, yeah, Beijing Kaloya.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's so good.

It is, isn't it?

Yeah.

Just like fat and pancakes.

It's the sauce.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's me sauce.

Yeah, that's calio.

That makes everything, yeah.

But did you have family there or no?

Yeah, I did.

My grandma had like a cousin there.

Oh, yeah.

Did you see him?

I did.

Yeah.

I stayed with them for a little bit, too.

That was crazy.

Yeah.

But yeah, it was really sweet.

They were really sweet.

Do you speak Chinese?

Not well.

No.

Like, I can understand a little bit.

I could say a little bit.

But your parents didn't speak either in the house?

My dad doesn't really know it either.

And my grandma just kind of spoke like shitty English to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and you didn't do any, you never did any acting training or anything?

No, yeah.

Not at all.

It's just kind of.

I saw an acting coach once because I feel like my team or someone didn't really trust me that much to just go and like raw dog like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And but you you were able to draw an emotional depth and, you know, and hold it.

I mean, that's kind of hard, but I guess you had some chops.

I mean, it's weird because I kind of learned on set too, you kind of figure it out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I really liked your show.

Oh, thank you very much.

I really liked it.

I think I went a couple seasons

too.

Oh, thank you.

I know Nora, another girl named Nora that was.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

played my girlfriend.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's her last name again?

Zahetner.

Zahetner.

You know her?

Yeah.

How is she?

She's great.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she's great.

Oh, good.

Yeah.

She was a little intense, but she did a good job.

No, no, no.

I love her.

It was just

because the character she was playing in my life, the real person was, you know, a bit much.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

So that was a real person.

Yes.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

Where is she at?

I don't know.

It's like in a ditch.

I don't.

No, no, no, no.

I've seen her.

It was a difficult relationship, and I've seen her a couple times

not too long ago.

But we're not in touch, but she's okay.

How do you show up in a relationship?

Like, I'm always interested about how stand-ups do that.

In what way?

Show up.

Like, what kind of, what kind, what, who are you?

What roles do you play?

What things you do?

Well, you know.

Are you an avoidant?

A little bit, sometimes.

I think there was a period there where I was attracted to, I don't know if I'd call them toxic, but somewhat mentally unstable situations.

Sure.

Like, you know, I think there's something about drama that, you know, keeps you hidden from real intimacy.

And I think that, you know, you go through

relationships like that that seem passionate, but they're really just, you know, crazy.

And in those, you don't have to risk much because you're just yelling or crying all the the time.

Yeah, you keep more in too.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you don't

showing yourself.

Yeah, but you're just sharing these like raw emotions and reaction to things.

When do you think that starts to get old and impossible?

Well, it starts to get exhausting.

Right.

And in some situations, it can feel kind of dangerous.

Yeah, you're like bloated with cortisol.

I mean, yeah, it's awesome.

All the time.

Yeah,

you like jump scare all the time.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Or else you're just shutting down.

Totally.

And you're just trying to

make it work.

And then you get glimpses of like what your life would be like you know with without something super toxic and it seems so free you know yeah, yeah, but then you know five years later you get out of it.

No, no for sure

15 years later, you know what I mean?

You see glimpses at you know six months in yeah, and then like a decade later you're like I'm gonna get out of it.

I think I think I think next year I'm gonna do

why what about you?

Um I don't know.

I think that certain people make you anxious and other people other people that make you avoidant.

Yeah.

I think it's it's a a fine balance, I guess, of like

it's such a nightmare being like a creative, anxious, you know, nutty person.

Yeah.

You know, I think that it's also we're delusional because I think a part of us thinks that that is actually like really fun to be with.

Yeah.

But there's nothing fun about it.

No, I'm getting old for that.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Are you in one now?

I mean, yeah, it's been, you know.

It's been a while.

Yeah.

It's been here.

Yeah.

How's it going?

Yeah, it's good.

Oh, good.

Are you in one now?

Yeah.

Is it good?

I'm doing what i can yeah

what does that mean what does that mean there's no drama oh because you don't yeah so how do how do you not have a drama situation well i've learned over the years that

you know a lot of times you're reacting to things that aren't real and a lot of times you know things are you know kind of triggered on purpose so i i've learned to kind of you know shut up sometimes and you know if i'm feeling you know manipulated or or or um put like or insulted or that sensitivity is fine, but you can actually just go like, you know, that hurt my feelings as opposed to go fuck yourself.

What if you say that hurt my feelings and then they say go fuck yourself?

What would you do if you're like that?

And that hurt my feelings twice, and then I'm going to retreat pretty heavy

and add that to the list of reasons I have to leave.

But then I won't.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, no, it is.

It's a cycle.

Yeah.

So that's cool.

You hosted Saturday Night Live?

I did.

Yeah.

I did.

Have you?

No.

What do you mean?

I'm not at that level.

Mark, are you fucking kidding me?

Come on.

Come on.

No, I never was.

I don't, I don't think I have the cultural juice to do it.

And I ended up interviewing Lauren and everything.

And I like I almost

auditioned for the show and I thought I got close and I was obsessed with Lauren forever.

Oh, you auditioned for the show.

Yeah.

Wow.

And I didn't get on it.

And then like Lauren finally agreed to an interview and we did like over two days, this massive interview.

And he explained to me the situation and I got a sense.

Oh my God, I didn't listen to that.

Yeah, and I got a sense of like who he was and it was all kind of interesting.

That's cool.

Yeah, I think I'd like to do it.

There's a lot of things, I don't know if you experienced this, that I really think I should do or should have done.

But if I really think about it, I don't know if I was.

prepared to do it or whether I would do a good job at it.

You know, you just have things like over time I've kind of realized my limitations and so on.

Well, you don't want them to also hamper.

Well, you don't want them to, yeah, like, like cause you to not take risks.

No, no, no.

I definitely take risks, but I don't.

Were you nervous about it?

SNL was like,

I mean,

like that, it was a situation where like the cast was like,

I was fans of them for years.

Which cast?

It was like Kate McKinnon, Cecily Strong,

Mikey Day.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, so not too long ago.

Bowen was on it.

Bowen actually, I don't think, was a performer on it yet.

He was a writer.

Okay.

Yeah, no, no, it was a cool, it was a cool cast.

And I was just so, I felt so inadequate.

Because growing up, I used to love SNL, Mad TV.

Yeah.

I loved the Sherry O'Terry

days.

And I had dreamed about being on that stage.

And I knew that it was not.

It's like, I won't be that lucky to actually kill it.

You know, like, I think that the opportunity kind of, the luck stopped there, right?

Or whatever.

And I felt, I just felt like I didn't have the devices.

I wasn't ready.

And I was so also just completely like

It was hard for me to I felt I felt so nervous and and like self-conscious and how'd you do

I Mean, you know, I think some people said it's a it's a good episode.

I mean there every time I watch it I'm just like I'm like miming notes in my head.

I'm like

like turn around like yeah yeah yeah

Yeah, and I don't know.

I don't I don't I don't ever watch I can't watch things and think I like I like I truly killed that.

No.

Do you?

I mean

you were killing the guitar yesterday, dude.

I felt that then.

And recently, I watched some old clips of stuff of my acting from way back in small parts.

And I was pretty hard on myself at the time, but I think I did okay.

Yeah.

You know, like, I think when you when it builds up to it, and then you finally see it, or you finally do it,

there, if you're of a certain type of person, there's no way you're going to feel good about it.

But then, like, if you watch it later, you're like, I was all right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did the best I could.

Yeah, for sure.

yeah but it's very hard do you watch yourself in everything

um

because you're like in in in the rich asians thing you were hilarious oh thank you you must have felt like you nailed that um i mean that one that that just felt it just felt fun there was no like you know i felt you know i think it's it's also like if you if like you feel comfortable around the director too yeah you can see when you're stilted and stuff like that sure i guess sure yeah yeah i can i'm not like one of those people that can't watch themselves because it's i i i can watch it have an objective opinion it always leads to more self-hatred but right, so it's not objective,

it's very subjective.

You're watching you.

It's hard to do.

You think you can be objective, but how the fuck can you be objective about watching yourself?

I know.

And then when you're in a movie, like, you know, you're trying to watch the movie, but then all you're focusing on is you.

And not only you, but like something on your face.

And you're just like, dude, all the fucking time.

What is that?

Yeah, it's like close your mouth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

What are you doing with your hands?

I know.

Stupid.

You ever see what your other hand's doing when you eat?

Oh, my God.

It's crazy.

Well, you never think about that.

And you shouldn't think about what when you're acting like it's doing crazy dude it's so it's like so bad i'm like more unattracted to myself it's always like it's always like you know it's yeah it's always doing some weird yeah but no one i you don't i god forbid anyone notices it and we're gonna notice it but even like with the showman now the stick show on apple with owen like i think i did good with what i had to do great actor well i appreciate that but there there's just there are those moments because when you're watching it you go back to the moment you did it like you know like in the last episode of of stick which was just on last night oh cool

you know it's a big finale and and everybody's got to hug each other you know on the golf course and that day owen was so sick oh and and like and i don't know if he had covet i don't know what he had oh no but in those scenes and i'm watching them all i'm thinking is like hold your breath dude oh man because i don't want to fucking get sick oh no dude that's actually so true you sometimes the day speaks louder than your performance it's just like i am so tired.

Yeah, to you.

Yeah.

To you, yeah.

Yeah.

And I watched Owen, too, and I'm like, he's doing great.

And he was like, you know, sweaty and not, you know, it was not a good day.

And I swear to God, in the group hug, I was holding my fucking breath because I did not want to get sick.

I don't even know if that is like, that's effective at that point in a hug.

No, I know.

Of course it's not, but it all played fine.

Yeah.

But I knew that

that day.

But I guess that's a testament to being an okay actor if you can pull it off.

Yeah, I know for sure.

Yeah, but the hands and like, you know, my the way I stand and my choices, you know, what are you going to do?

Like in real life?

Oh, no.

And when I watch myself, I'm like, oh, you could have, you know, why didn't you put a little more into this or that?

Yeah, I have, I'm giving myself notes.

Yeah.

Yeah, but people like it.

And when they say they like it, I've chosen to believe them.

I don't, I, I, I, I'm so, I think the one thing that sucks about, you know, like in this career is like you literally don't know who is lying, who is lying sometimes.

Yeah.

But if it's just general, are you on, you're not on social media anymore?

Only I'm like Instagram, TikTok.

You know, I, yeah.

So the Instagram thing, like if people email me, if people go out of their way to say, I really like this, generally, you know, I'm like, okay, well, that's who it's for.

I'm going to let it be.

But then, you know, out of 10 of those, there's the one like, oh, you suck.

And you're like, oh, I knew it.

Are we talking about like little clips or?

Just in shows.

People tend tend to reach out.

And I shouldn't be, I'm not fully immersed in that, but I'll read stuff.

Yeah.

But then you start to realize like, well, they went out of their way

to write.

So that's good.

Yeah.

You know, and I know I did the best I could.

So that's that.

Yeah.

But

you want to learn too.

You want to learn how to make different decisions.

Like, I think it is helpful to watch yourself.

Yeah.

To say, like, well, you know, pay attention to that the next time.

So what are you working on now?

Right now, I'm actually, well, the bad guys thing.

Yeah.

Well that's press.

I'm filming an Apple show right now about my it's a docu series about my great-grandpa's restaurant.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

So you're going to produce it?

I'm I'm like basically hosting it and I'm producing it.

Yeah.

And so you're digging into the history?

Digging into the history.

You know, there's not much that was left of the China the my great-grandpa's lums.

So they found a bunch of like customers.

Yeah.

It's been really cool.

Is there any like napkins and that kind of stuff from any of it?

You know,

there's like matchboxes that you can get on eBay and an ashtray I have.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

And how far into it are you?

We did

about halfway, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And are you learning things?

I'm learning how to cook, which is,

I learned how to

from their menu?

Yeah, yeah.

Then it got like, you know, like roasted by everyone.

Like the old customers were like, yeah, the original one was better and bigger, you know.

Yeah, it's cool.

Do you cook at all?

Yeah, I do.

I do cook.

And I've been like plant-based for like two years.

Oh, wow.

So it's very specific, but I like it.

Yeah.

It makes you feel like you have some control over your basic likes.

You're like beyond burgers?

No, no, I'll cook like, you know, a lot of chickpeas, rice.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I do a lot of seaweed for some reason because I think that's important.

Oh, yeah.

Seaweed is great.

Yeah.

And, you know, different types of proteins.

Seitan.

Love Satan.

I do, too.

Yeah.

It's really good.

And I think it's been around for thousands of years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just, I can't do like the vegan cheese, some vegan cheeses.

Yeah, I don't know what it's made out of.

It just feels like congealed oil.

Yes, yeah.

And I think that's what it is.

It's like a butter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you have any like big acting roles coming up?

There's stuff like that that is kind of like in development.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And you're officially officially a part of the Marvel Universe?

Mm-hmm.

That's pretty good, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're doing all the stuff.

Well, you could be in the Marvel Universe just by being in a Marvel movie, so that's fun.

But to some people, that's very important.

Yeah, no, it's

having a good time.

You're having a good time.

I love that.

I love Marvel.

Yeah, it's like filming with them is very utopic.

You know, we finish on time, great food.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a very important thing on set.

Oh, food.

Yeah, food.

I know.

When we were filming, it was so good.

But when you have like a shitty caterer, you're like,

yeah.

And sometimes you don't even know what's like, it seems like it's healthy.

And then you're like, why did I put on nine pounds?

I've been eating green beans the whole time.

I'm eating nerds and green beans only.

I love what the crafty and the and the catering kind of like bump heads.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Because I've been on a couple sets where the crafty is like, you know, this is better.

Like, you know, this is better than the catering.

Sometimes it is.

Yeah, it's like take a quarter sandwich.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sometimes it is.

Yeah.

Well, it was great talking to you.

Great talking to you, Mark.

It was fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There you go.

That was us getting to know each other.

It's she's an interesting person.

Bad guys 2, again, is in theaters tomorrow, August 1st.

Hang out for a minute, folks.

All right, people, my special, Mark Marin Panicked, premieres on HBO Tomorrow, streaming on HBO Max.

You can hear me talk about how the special went on a full Marin bonus episode from back in May.

Like, I get off and there's this weird feeling of like embarrassment.

Like, you know, like, you know, like I, I, I, why do I even share that part of myself, you know, in certain bits?

You know, why, why, why is that the only place I can go?

There's a feeling of, of exposure that, that's uncomfortable and I don't know how else to do it.

And I know.

Do you still feel that with this material, even after you did it so many times?

Sure.

I I did, you know, in terms of knowing that it's now going to be, you know, you're almost anonymous out there in Portsmouth or Skokie,

you know, or wherever.

You know, you go out into a theater in a town.

It's like, you know, that show ends there.

Right.

But this was the, this was the official coming out party of the babysitter bit, basically.

That's right.

Yeah.

And I don't know if that one, does that one embarrass me?

I don't know.

It's just the way I do it, you know,

there's a vulnerability to it and a feeling of exposure that, you know, once I know it's going to be there for, you know, everyone to find

and out there for, I would assume, the biggest audience that will ever see it collectively, you know, I feel like, you know, like,

you know, why do I owe my audience this or why do I do this to myself?

I don't know where else to draw from, you know, you know, that babysitter bit sort of evolved out of, you know,

knowing that trauma therapy was, you know, know, a thing and that I had done it in dealing with Lynn and some other stuff.

And that story, it was funny because I saw my brother afterwards.

I said, you okay with everything?

Now that it's done and I didn't

get that episode and every bonus episode we do twice a week, sign up for the full Marin.

Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.

And because I'm out of town, we usually do something from the vault, but I'm actually going to share with you the theme for my HBO special, Mark Marin Panicked, premiering tomorrow on HBO and HBO Max.

I recorded this with Luke Paquin, Dan Horn, Richard Gowan.

It was produced by Paige Stark, and we just got a riff going.