Episode 1659 - Dustin Chafin / Darby Allin

Lock the gate!

All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies, what the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.
This is my podcast. Welcome to it.
How's it going out there?

How'd everybody do?

I don't know, general question. How'd everybody do?

I did okay this morning. Did you do okay this morning? How far into the day are you? What's going on?

Oh my God, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff.
A lot of things are breaking down in me,

in my body. My eyes are fucked up.
That's for another day. Not bad.
Just keep, you know, I mean, every year,

a little, little worse. Everything's a little worse on the physical side, but, you know, that's the gift.
That's the gift of continuing to live.

You can just watch things in your body slowly break down. How's it going? Good morning.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. Look, today,

a couple of interesting things today. Well, first of all, I'm going to talk to Dustin Chafin.
He's a comedian who I literally have known for, wow, I don't know. It's got to be 25 years.

I haven't talked to him, I don't think, in 20 years. And he was around when I was in New York.
I'm guessing, got to be 2000s, early 2000s. He used to run a room.

I think he was roommates. We talk about it, but I think he was roommates with Bargetti.
He tours with Bargettsi now. But back in the day, he had sort of a gimmick going.
And I think he's over it.

But we talk about it. He just, he texted me out of nowhere and he was like, can we talk? And I'm like, yeah, man.
Yeah.

You can go to dustinchafen.com to

see his tour dates. I'm just glad he's still around.
He's coming up. Now, the other thing that we're going to do today is kind of interesting.
Now,

a lot of you know me. I'm not

challenging myself is, there's a spectrum to it. Okay.
You know, I don't go overboard, certainly not physically.

You know, I keep in shape. I do the exercising.
I think I'm actually, I believe that Men's Health Magazine is some, for some reason, going to do a piece on me. And I tried to make it clear to

the person arranging it that like, you know, I'm not ripped and, you know, I'm not really abiding by any specific protocol diet-wise other than the one that I've created for myself, you know, but I am, I am fit.

Is that going to be enough? I'd prefer no pictures with the shirt off. I don't really want to do any action shots.
But look, I push it. I do my thing, man.

You know, I mean, I go up that mountain. I was going up a lot more.

I haven't been going up lately because since I broke my foot and passed out, and a slight fear, but not so much going up, going down.

And for some reason, me and Gimme, Gimme Dan, we choose to run down. And you don't want to compromise, you know, your

pattern. You don't want to compromise

your system.

But again, you get old. You got to tweak the system.
You got to make some compromises. But nonetheless, that's a hard hike.
And I do it frequently enough to be used to it, but

it's still fucking hard.

So that's the limit. I don't need to necessarily push myself beyond the limits I'm comfortable with of just staying in shape.

I've never been one of these guys that's had to achieve, you know, kind of personal monumental bests in the form of,

you know, doing something that no one else does.

Not jumping out of planes. You know, I'm not climbing Everest, which comes to my guest right now,

my special guest.

This guy, all right, look, we posted something on the Full Marin bonus feed last week, and we figured, you know, we'd share some of it with the whole audience today because it was, you know, it's a unique piece of conversation.

If you don't know about the Friday show on the Full Marin, my producer Brendan McDonald and my

board op and coworker from back in the day, Chris Lopresto, do a bonus show every week where they recap everything

basically in the WTF orbit. Last week they had a guest on, Darby Allen.
Okay. He's an AEW wrestler and a pro skateboarder.
And he also just got back

from the top of Mount Everest. And look, I've never spoken with anyone who climbed Mount Everest before.
So they had me come on to the Friday show and talk with Darby. Now, okay, a couple things.

He'll be auctioning off some items from his climb to raise money for Tony Hawk's skateboard project, but he also has other reasons he wanted to make the climb, and he told us about them.

So this was me on the Friday show last week talking with Darby Allen over video chat from his home. Okay.
And you'll hear Brendan here getting the introduction started.

Well, Darby, good to meet you. Glad you're here with us.
I figured it was a great time to have you on with Mark because Mark is also a guy who climbs a lot of mountains. He climbs them figuratively.

He climbs them literally. And I thought that you just came back from a mountain.
And first of all, how are you?

Are you doing fine now that you're back?

Yeah, no, fuck you. I'm surprisingly feeling great.
I thought... you know, coming back, I was going to be all mangled and shit and it was going to be like snapped back in.

Because in my, outside of just wrestling, I skateboard all the time and I do all these other crazy stuff. So pretty much as soon as I got back, I was off to a plane to Bahamas to film Shark Week.

So it was, it's like a whole thing, but my body feels great. I feel mentally great.
And that's the coolest thing is I've learned so much inside within myself on that mountain.

There's so much stuff I can get into when it comes to the life lessons that I've learned on that mountain. Cause a lot of people say it's not about summoning Mount Everett.

It's about conquering like yourself and your inside and pulling stuff out. So okay.
All right. Well, I got some questions then.

Let's start with the dead people. Now, how many dead people did you walk by? I believe there was like a total of eight.

But you know, the crazy thing is when I went up and then I instantly, when I did the summit, I was coming back down, you see all these new dead bodies that you didn't see within the last 12 hours.

That were, that just got there? Yeah, like new ones that died in 12 hours. Yeah.

People just dropping dead up there like every day? Oh, I I don't know about every day, but it was literally, I went up.

I when I did the summit and then I was coming down, all of a sudden, you see a new dead body that wasn't there on the trail 12 hours ago. Different jacket.

Yeah,

dude, it was, it was pretty crazy. Cause then you start thinking about your own situation.
And obviously, they don't go there with the death wish.

They go there thinking, oh, shit, like, I'm going to do this motherfucking mountain. And then it just doesn't work out.

And it's just like, you're like, oh, oh my god did how in the sherpas they just like leave it's just like a whole thing that yeah i don't know what i don't know why they leave there but maybe the guy's like you know i'm gonna climb this fucking mountain if it's the last thing i do and it turns out it was yeah there is a thing called summit fever where people just don't know when to turn around and i felt that I felt that a hundred percent because when I was climbing summit day, we left camp four at 11 p.m.

And I was going for the summit. And then out of fucking nowhere there's this traffic jam.

You hear these stories of traffic jams all the time.

But here it was just a good weather day. So everybody wanted to almost summit like that day.

And you know, if you think about the grand scheme of people on Everest, only a little over 400 permits were issued this year.

You know, people are like, oh my God, everybody and their mom's doing fucking Everest. I'm like, that's not the case.

400 people in the whole fucking world doing this mountain.

But like in general, do you, uh just by judging by your the way you live your life do you do you know when to turn around

uh

no not not not really

because i'll explain i'll explain in detail about the whole psychology behind the way i live and why i live the way i live um

but it's like the first thing when i was about to do this mountain the guy asked me are you willing to die on that mountain and then you're like yeah absolutely.

Because if you're not, don't even step foot on the mountain because you got loved ones, you got all this shit. Like my mom and my brother walked to base camp with me.

And I remember my brother and my mom

after it was time for them to leave. And I'm staying there to get ready to do this mountain.

And I remember them walking away and I'm like crying to myself, thinking, this is not going to be the last time I see them.

And this is, and then I was like, I need to like be so strong and finish this mountain.

And it just puts things in perspective where you're like, damn, man, I could see if I have, say, a family with like kids and stuff, I wouldn't, I almost feel like I wouldn't be on that mountain because it's, it's kind of a selfish thing to do.

But at the same time, it just, it becomes really, real fast.

It's a high price to pay for recreation.

Yeah. But it, but it's, it's just such a spiritual journey and pulling stuff out of you.
And

like I said, when I got to the top of the mountain, I was crying. It was just such an overwhelming feeling of accomplishment.
And it's like pulling something out of yourself.

And but, you know, you hear this, the traffic jams. It goes back to the traffic jams.
You hear all this stuff about the traffic jams. And then instantly we're climbing.

And then all of a sudden, everything just stops. And you're like, oh, shit.

What's going on? And then there's about a little over 100 people in this line and you're not moving on the side of the mountain for an hour, over an hour.

you're standing in the same spot and i start to panic because i feel i see all the uh sherpas that i'm with they're getting cold they're smacking their hands together stomping their feet and i was like oh shit these guys and i was like

what what's going on like oh yeah traffic jam and i was like damn and then i was like people are running out of their oxygen tanks and some people are like turning back and just be like yo fuck this And then I could see right there, I was like, how am I going to explain to anybody I didn't do Everest because of a traffic jam?

It's It's a hard thing. You know, you kind of just hit the panic button.
You're like, I, I felt 100% summit fever on that fucking mountain at that time.

I was like, I'm going to fucking die on this mountain before I turn back. And it's a real thing.
Oh, you mean

summit fever is you got to get there, not like an actual physical sickness. Yeah, it's a mental thing where you're, you're thinking, oh, shit, man.
I, I, you know, so much goes into it. So much time,

the money,

just everything that goes into. And you just, me,

like, in the sense of being like, you know, publicly saying, I'm climbing Mount Everest. So there's like these expectations that like, oh, this guy's going to fucking do this.

And I was like, man, I got to do this. Because the year before I was supposed to climb, I broke my foot in a match a week before I was supposed to fly out.

I just don't get like if they only gave out 400, you know, permits for the year, were all 400 on the mountain the same day you were?

No, so it's all spread out. People pick different summit days and it's like, it's just a weather window.

But the day I was going, it felt like there was like 160 people going for the summit from camp four,

which up there seems like a lot when it happens.

But it was just, yeah,

it was really crazy just being up there.

you kind of and i'm no mountain expert i don't i don't claim to be a mountain expert i just claim to work really hard and dedicate myself quick and apply myself and just seeing a lot of people up there that had no business of being up there where

they're it's like holy shit this is crazy like like families with kids or something well just physically physically not being like right right you know and they're just getting pulled up and in a lot of cultures uh some cultures it's like if you climb mount everest you get a promotion in your job and then yeah it's crazy because then some people go do it but they can't summit so they photoshop themselves on top of the mountain to get the summit and then they find out that it's fucking fake and they're fire this guy.

Stolen mountain valor.

And then I was just like, dude, I gotta, I, I gotta summon this. I can't Photoshop myself on Everest.

But it was, uh, yeah, it was very humbling, but it just comes from, you know, I don't know how,

yeah, it's just, there's a lot of moving parts of why I even wanted to start the fucking mountain in the first place.

But based on like, you know,

what you do for a living and how you've lived your life and sort of acknowledging that a lot of that, you know, comes from whatever damage you have in your childhood.

Were you able to let go of any of that going up there?

Yeah. Well, it's also

just letting this proving to yourself that you're capable of anything. And I know that sounds generic, but honestly, we live in the world in the professional wrestling world.

The guy who runs the show, controls how far you're going to make it or how low you're going to make it. So someone is in control of your destiny.

it's not like say boxing or you know mixed martial arts where i'm going to prove i'm the best by knocking you out it doesn't work like that in the world of wrestling there's so much you know politicking and random that goes into it and i wanted to just prove to myself i'm capable of this because uh you can't politic your way up that mountain you yeah you can't there's no helicopter that goes up that high where you can jump out and take a nice little photo on the summit and be like yo i climbed ever and just lie to people you gotta scratch and claw your way up that shit.

And then that's where it was so humbling to remind myself what I'm capable of because you get into the world of wrestling. There's nothing else like the world of wrestling to me.

It's like the most amazing job in the world for someone like myself because it's like stunts, acting, it chucks off all the boxes that I'm very passionate about.

But on the flip side, like I said, someone else is in control of your destiny. Someone else is control of how far you're going to make it, how low you're going to make it.

Because you can have this passion. I'm the fucking man.
It's like, well, no, you're not.

You're going to be losing every week and it's just like and then i don't know it's just dude i see the world of wrestling and i love like i said i love wrestling but it's kind of crazy how people get into this small bubble and then allows them to be chewed up and spit out because all it is is a 15 minute ride and then if you don't focus on your real life It's going to chew you up and spit you out.

And you're going to believe your own hype. And the next thing you know, you're being this character that you are on TV in real life.
And it's like, dude, detach.

I always wanted to be the person coming into the world of wrestling. I always wanted to leave the same person coming out.

I didn't want to just all of a sudden get this ego and just all of a sudden believe in my own hype. And like, I'm fucking Darby Allen.
It's like, shut the fuck up, dude. And

there's like a bunch of like little parts in it. And to be able to do this mountain in the middle of what I feel is my physical peak.
where I'm still amazing.

And Tony Khan, the owner of AEW, being like, yo, do this

it's like cool because a lot of people in the world of wrestling man they they just chew you up and spit you out and leave you with nothing and the fact that he allowed me to do this is i'm so grateful for it and you know it's funny because we did so much just i don't know it started from an early age of trying to push myself out of my comfort zone and the moment i started doing crazy shit is when I started breaking down these mental barriers in my head that were holding me back.

And then next next thing I know, like that's kind of, that was my ammo to keep moving forward.

It's because no one, I, I say no one's willing to go to the places I'm willing to go in wrestling physically. And I mean that.

And I was like, yeah, nobody's, the more I do crazy shit, the more I feel I'm,

and, you know, anything's possible. How does it feel when you get hurt? You like it? It's, yeah, no, because dude, the thing is, I do so much physical recovery.

People don't know my physical recovery regimen and everything. There's so much that goes into that.
So I feel great. Everyone's like, you're not going to be able to walk when you're 30.

And I'm like, well, motherfucker, I'm 32 right now and I feel great. And,

you know, but it's just like, just keeping updated with all that stuff. Wait, so how do you, how do you rehab or your, what's your regimen for it, you know, jumping off of a 20-foot ladder onto,

you know, glass?

You know, honestly, I feel like the years of skateboarding got me ready for that because nothing's harder than concrete, landing on concrete and doing all this shit.

It just,

but it's like the physical recovery afterwards is just like a lot of like stretching, the ice bath. And then like I said, it's like mental too.

If you take care of your brain, your body just feels like nice and loose. People carry so much tension, you know, just being tense all the time.

And their body just breaks down from their minds being, you know. So

when you're falling from a ladder,

you're pretty relaxed.

Dude, yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, absolutely.
Absolutely. And just it goes back to the

before I jump off the ladders or crazy shit. I'm like, I say to myself, I'm going to the hospital tonight.
And it's just like, and it's like, so, it's so, you're at peace.

You got to be at peace with it. You got to be at peace with the worst to come, just like Everest.
So you got to be at peace with it. Did you follow it? Did you follow it all on Everest?

Did you go tumbling? No, no. You're pretty strapped in to the safety rope at all times.
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
You're pretty safe. But that, you know,

I've seen a lot of people get helicoptered out and shit like from camp three. And camp three is a little over 23,000 feet.
It was fucking gnarly. And, but you just have to stay like focused.

And I remember being in that tent for,

you know, like all day, just being like, you might die tonight or you might die tomorrow. And you're just like, you're constantly telling yourself.
But how do you, how do people die up there? What it?

Hypothermia? What is it? It could be anything. It could be anything.

It could be like

sometimes people's bodies just give out. It's not so much hypothermia, I feel like, because they got so much new

equipment and staying warm and everything. Yeah.
I just think it's pure exhaustion. Well, you know, nothing about what you're saying makes me want to do it.

But Mark, that's the fun part. That's the fun part is because the shit that no one else wants to touch is the places I'm willing to go.

Because just like all those years ago, when people told me I wasn't going to amount to shit.

Now it's like finding new things to keep accomplishing and pushing yourself constantly out of your comfort zone.

But I just never wanted to try to appease people to the point where it was a detriment to my own

growth as a human. And then I, you know, so this whole self-exploring with the Everest and everything, it was just very awesome.

And then this is a funny story because when I first started going to agree to do Everest, I was a single man. So I was like, oh, well, there's no freaking thing I have to worry about.

You know, nobody has this. But then halfway through,

I reconnect with this girl I had a crush on

in the school bus in high school. In Seattle? Yeah, I had a crush on her.
And then we reconnected. And then all of a sudden, we start dating.
So it's a whole new level of like, oh, shit.

Now if I die, I feel like,

yeah, she'll be sad. Yeah, but it's a crazy story because I had a crush on her in high school and then

she ended up getting shot in the head. Wow.
What the fuck? Jesus Christ. Yeah, she ended up getting shot in the head in high school.

And I was like, oh, my God, this crush of mine from the school bus got murdered. But she luckily survived.

How did she recover from getting shot in the head? Yeah.

Oh, she became, that inspired her to become an ICU nurse. Oh, wow.
Oh, wow. That's awesome.
But fast forward, I'm on top of Everest on the summit and I filmed this video where I proposed to her.

Oh, no shit. Yeah.
So it was like, so yeah, now we're engaged, but it's like a fun, like full circle moment. But I'm thinking the whole time now, I'm not just worrying about myself.

I'm worrying about this future wife of mine and all this stuff. Like you gotta, you gotta make it out alive, you know, and at such a level of.

like oh my god like this you can't be selfish anymore you're like i said with my brother and my mom like dude i gotta survive for them. I got to survive for this fiance and all this stuff.

What are you going to do about this? I mean, I got to assume that because of the way you've lived your life, your whole life, that you're kind of, you know, addicted to the thrill of it.

Do you see that letting up at all? No, no, absolutely not.

I never want to lose that.

That's never going to be lost on me because, yeah, dude, I spent so many times in Seattle. just staring at a wall and being like, there's a whole world out there.

And the moment I get a taste of it, I'm never going to let up.

And that's the, you know, I don't know, it's been, it's been a wild ride, but the beauty of it all is, like I said earlier, Tony Khan just being like, yo, dude, I want you to live your life outside of the ring and be happy.

And that's, that's, that's the cool balance. That's, that's something I can never take for granted.
And it's something Vince McMahon would never say.

Definitely not. It's like, yeah,

I feel,

yeah, no, I just feel so free. And I I told Tony before I left for Everest, I had a talk with him and I was like, hey, man,

I just, I already feel like I'm the champion of the world. I don't, I don't need the championship belt per se to feel validated because I'm already winning in life.

I feel so free and I feel so like happy. I was like, dude, I don't, I'm just grateful for everything.
Belt would be nice, though, right? That depends on, I don't know, man.

I really, I, I don't, I really don't give a shit. I'm going to be honest with you.
I, I, it's just so much people are so concerned with winning this thing,

but

I just want to have good storylines.

I just want to have good storylines. I'm not trying to be like, I need to be the top guys.

I just want to have good shit. But that's great.
You got Shark Week coming up. There is all in Texas coming up.
So your date card is full.

But we appreciate you taking the time to come on here with us while we're in the process of wrapping up. Thanks for having me on.
It was great meeting you, man. Yes, sir.

There you go. As you heard, Darby will be at the AEW all-in pay-per-view this Saturday, July 12th.
He'll be part of Discovery's Shark Week on Thursday, July 24th. The show caught Shark Strike Back.

And he's raising money for Tony Hawk's skate park project to bring skate parks to neighborhoods that can't afford them. Okay, visit skatepark.org to learn more.
All right? Okay, here we go.

Dustin Chafin is here. And again,

Dustin and I go way back, but I don't think we've really talked for like 20 years. You can find his tour dates and watch his special at dustinchafin.com.
This is me talking to my old pal, Dustin.

Pull that mic up on your face.

There we go. You know how how to do the podcast?

I've been on a few. Yeah.

I was a little confused by the microphone situation.

I love it. The New York Hazen.
Is that what it is? Oh, yeah. It's great.
I don't know. I think I've done it before New York.

It's only certain people I can land it with. Oh, yeah.
I think you've always been one of them. I don't know why.

I just wanted to bust your balls constantly. Oh, Oh, yeah.

Some of it I talk about in therapy still. Oh, wow.
That's great. Oh, yeah.
No.

Well, there was more back then. You had a whole get-up going.
Oh, yeah. That was the best.
One time you said to me, you go, go, yeah, this outfit. It's like, you know, when you see somebody in L.A.

and you just look at them and you go, that's sad.

I think I burned those pants.

Or were they like leather or snake skin or something? You know, it's whatever. No, yeah.
You go with the girl that you're with, and they're always like, they try to dress you, and you're like,

so that was the situation? Oh, yeah, that was all, that's always a situation. Well,

that shows a bit of lack of will

on your part.

You know, I don't know. But at that time, like, so you think it's been 20 years since I've seen you? Like, I had a conversation.
Because we were, I felt like we were,

you know, kind of close for a minute, and then we had a little falling out, and then I hadn't seen you in a long time. Do you remember what the falling out was about? Absolutely.

Can we just get in? How long ago was that? Well, I would, yeah. I mean, I want to talk about when I first met you, though.
We will do that. We will.
We'll get to that later.

Or do you want the falling out first? No, I'm curious because maybe we can, maybe I can ease your mind

at the beginning. Well, am I the bad guy? You're not the not really.
All right. I think it's kind of funny.
I think I was dealing with it in the best situation. It was like,

I think I came at you in a comic way, and you needed me to come to you in a human way. And it was one of those situations.
Oh, really? Yeah, because

your second wife and Mishna, yeah, Mishnah, you know, she used to make us go to those one-woman shows she was doing. Sure.
You know, she was like working them out. Yeah, yeah.

So there'd be like six of us there. And so I went to quite a few of them.
Yeah. And it was always only like five or six of us.

And then when you guys were going through a divorce,

I said, hey, man, I'm sorry you're going through this, but at least we don't have to go go to those shows anymore and you went off on me really and you're like who the are you with your cowboy hat and you just like went off and i was just like dude i i just i really thought that was the best thing i could have said it is actually and it was just i guess you were in a place oh you know why is because she left me yeah okay so

so

so it was it wasn't like i was over anything yeah i got you do you know

tender yeah right exactly like you know, I mean, it was, that's a pretty good line. I thought so.
Yeah, well, that's it. I thought it was crushing a crush with that.

And there, we didn't talk

for years. It was kind of over after.

It broke my heart. Yeah,

it's okay. I stopped winning.

Yeah, well,

that took time. You should have given me the heads up when you stopped, and I would have talked to you again.

Sounds like it was mostly about the cowboy hat. I don't know.
You got a lot of heroes that wore cowboy hats.

That's the thing. Yeah, do I? Yeah.
Like who? I don't know.

I didn't like it when Bill Hicks wore a cowboy hat. I didn't like it.
That was fun. I thought that was perfect.
That was like that was part of the whole like Stevie Ray Vaughn.

Yeah, I get it, but you know, I barely like it. Well, he can wear it because he's got everything else going.
Got a lot of Indian jewelry and got the Stratocaster and he can do something.

I get it, it's a get-up, but in comedy, it's like, do we need the hats? I don't know. I think that's why we do comedy.
So you can wear the hat. You do whatever you want.

Yeah, but you were doing a whole thing. You had boots.
You were flipping your hands funny. You had a whole.

I was from Texas. There's a whole package.
I was nervous. I was from Texas.

You were a tick. Do you still have it? Not as much.
I've grown a lot. Well, no.
I'm a better comic, but

it's a bad comic. But for me, it felt like he's working this hook, this weird tilt thing.

It comes again. Now, see, like, now

you probably still do it, and I'm just beating you up again. No, I just eyeballing that Zen because I got off him.

Oh.

Why'd you get off him? Let me ask you.

Was it making you tired? No, I think it was just,

I think when you go in for your insurance and stuff, if you have nicotine in your blood, like, oh, it, like.

Is that true? I think so, yeah. That's what I was told.
Wait, so you had to get a blood test for insurance? Yeah. Now I'm saying it like that.

If you have nicotine in your blood system or whatever, it's like a whole thing.

No kidding. Yeah.
I had no idea. But I didn't know you had it.
So you're trying to get new insurance. It wasn't just that.

I think I just, like, I go from one addiction to another, and I was just like, I was was just trying to tell myself, all right, I'm going to quit this right now.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's like I thought that too.

Unfortunately, I thought, like, well, these have got to be fucking with my gums. And then I went to the dentist, and they're not.
Okay. Because I thought they were causing my recession.

And the dentist said, well, I've always had recession. He goes, no, your gums are actually more healthy than most people that come in here because I floss them and everything.
But they're receded.

But I thought that I was just fucking, those are doing it. But I don't,

they can't be good for you. Well, nicotine, I think, is, I don't know what that does.
Nobody really knows what that does yet. I'm sure they know.
What do you think it does?

Well, I think it constricts your blood vessels. I think there's a reason why you get the high or the low with it.
You know, it's a complex drug. But I think if you're not smoking it,

I think most of the damage from smoking comes from

the heat and the other shit in there and tobacco. But like sort of non-tobacco nicotine, I don't think it's good for your blood vessels.
And I've heard that it's probably not great for your pancreas.

Yeah.

But,

you know, I'm trying to, you know, just, you know, keep well. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Just trying to stay well with the addiction. So I don't.

So you're off everything? Everything. 17 years

Saturday. How long off the Zen? After Zen about

a year. Yeah.
So cigarettes?

Everything. I'm off of them off.
And how long off of those?

Probably about three years. I went back, and that's when I got to the Zen's.
Sure.

I love cigarettes, man. I love everything about it.
I can't. Every time I see somebody smoke, it's always like, you know, some raggedy person.
It's like, what are you doing?

But I miss it. I don't know if I miss it anymore because it's been a very long time since I smoke cigarettes every day.
And then I'd go through cigars. Sometimes I'd go through like dip pouches.

And the Zen seemed to be a nice meeting. I was off everything,

like literally everything for three years once. And it felt fine.

But then eventually it's sort of like, what, you know, fine isn't great.

I need a little bump of something. Cool, caffeine and nickel.
And that's the perfect combination. I've gone off caffeine too.
I was off that too.

Yeah, but then it's just like, it's kind of flat. You know, it's sort of like,

you know, like,

yeah, it's good, I guess. Yeah.
Whereas like, you know, when you're just chasing it all the time. Yeah.
But so I guess like, I check in on you occasionally.

I remember a few years ago, maybe it's been that long, I saw Nate and I said,

how's Dustin doing? He goes, I got him.

He's all right. I got him.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you need those guys sometimes.

You certainly do, dude. You need those guys.
You do. But you know what? It's like, you know, he, when I, you know, I ran the Boston Comedy Club, you know, towards the end there.

I was the guy, you know, that was running that. And he

in New York, and he was one of my barkers. It was him and Pete Holmes, and like, you know, so I was long gone.

You were

doing other stuff. I loved watching what they tried to do with you.
Yeah. That was, that was always fun.
Which one was that? Just all the stuff they tried to do.

Like, they tried to make you a host, like a talk show host. Oh, yeah.
That was interesting. Just watching, you know, all that happened.
So, what year are we talking?

2004, maybe, 2005, 2006. That's when I was at Boston.
Oh, so I was gone, though. I mean, I was coming.
I was coming here.

Yeah. Yeah.

You were doing stuff. Well, I was back in New York in 2004, right? You know, for Air America, and then back again.

That was fun to watch that, too.

You're saying fun, like, what a disaster? Yeah, a little bit, but it's amazing. But look where you are.
I mean, just like you've, you're, your failing is epic and amazing.

And then it's like, because they didn't know what to do with you. No one knew what to do with me.
I didn't know what to do with it. No, no.

Zero idea.

But when did you, like, because like Nate, you know, when I'm, you know, when I kind of caught on to Nate before everyone else in Michigan, before he got anywhere, you know, he was like, yeah, I met you before, you know,

but it was that room in Times Square, right? Oh, Broadway, yeah, upstairs. Yeah, that little fucking room.
Yeah, a little 80-seater. And that was you running that.
Yeah. And Chubby Nate.
Chubby Nate.

Sweaty Nate. With the little glasses and the little veiny.
Chubby, sweaty, drunky Nate,

who I didn't remember at all. Four joke, Nate.

Yeah.

Well, a lot of us talked to you.

First time I talked to you, it was amazing. I saw you at a New York Comedy Club.
It was a bus boy. I just started doing that.

Which one? The one on 24th? 24th. Oh, my God.
Yeah. That fucking dump.
Oh, yeah. It was just held together by duct tape and tears.
That was all. But they had that George Foreman grill.
Oh, yeah.

Well, I worked there. They didn't have that.
They had a full kitchen. And

I used to draw mozzarella sticks and French fries. But it couldn't have been a very big kitchen.
It was pretty big. Was it from another place? Yeah.

It used to be like a Thai restaurant or something before it was that. And then there were like eventually there were three rooms, one room seated four people.

And then what ended up happening is

they couldn't move this stove out of the hallway. So they put up drywall.
Right now, there's a stove

in the path to the stage.

There's a full-on stove in there. Covered with drywall? Yes.
Covered with drywall. And there was that one bathroom with the sliding door.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fucking disaster.

It was horrible, but it was electric, man. So you saw me there first.
It was CBGBs. It was a thing.
It didn't matter. Yeah, CBGBs, you know, for people that didn't necessarily have that much talent.

Well,

there was three guys. It was you.
It was Todd, Barry, and Attel. And that was it.
We'd make the rounds there, but it was sort of like a B room. Sure, of course.

Yeah, Yeah, but now all rooms are arguably

B rooms. But you would work out there.
Sure, you know. But when I saw you come in, I remember

you came in with your perfect 90s hair and your little leather jacket, and you were talking, and you were holding court, and you were talking about how you bombed Australia.

And I remember this being this thing. And then I think, I never heard a comic talk like that.
Like, I never heard anybody that vulnerable. Made a career out of it.
That's right.

But it was amazing because everybody was trying to be cool and, like, hey, I crushed or whatever. Oh, no, you were the first guy I ever heard, like, just go, oh, it was terrible.
Sent me home.

They hate me. They sent me home from a country.
Oh, did they? Yeah. I was a week into a four-week run, and they're like, I don't think this is working out.
I fucking bombed so hard.

I had to fly back home, and I relapsed on that flight. Oh, wow.
That was brutal, dude. So, so that was memorable for you.
You're like, oh, this is. Well, you were just so honest.
And like,

it was just great to hear that because I never heard any, I was was brand new in a comic, yeah, never heard any. Everybody's always trying to flex and be a cool guy, yeah.

And you were just like, Oh man, this is horrible, dude.

I grabbed the mic, I couldn't get anything going, like it was just so beautiful because I hadn't experienced you yet, so it was like this, you know, beautiful manic thing happening.

And I was like, Okay, all right, this guy.

And then, ever since I was following you and loved everything you did, I didn't care what kind of set it was, except for I couldn't wait to bomb and tell people that I bombed.

Like, I thought that was the coolest thing, yeah, yeah,

it was so punk rock, yeah. And then, and that's why you and I are where we at.
Yeah. That's why we've chosen the

other path.

Yeah, well, you know. No, but like, yeah,

yeah, you like everything I do except for the things where they're trying to make me do things. No, I love that.
I loved watching the movie. They foiled it.

I mean, when I say, Phil, my God, look what you look at. I'm saying it.
You're doing amazing.

But it's like, no, but it's like, it's like they never quite got it. Yeah.
And I think you had to do stuff like this. Yeah, I didn't quite get it

to be myself. Yeah.

So that was the journey but so you were busting busting tables at new york oh yeah was that your first job no i mean i guess i mean when did you where did you when did you get to new york uh i went to parsons in new york i got there around really 90s

i guess 95 or 96 you went to fucking art school went to art school man and you finished i did i got a bachelor's in what what were you well in fine arts but a fashion was what i wanted to do oh i wanted to oh so now like i'll let you i'll let you off the hook with the hat and the boots

You're still a weird fashion guy. You're just working on something.

Just trying to put it all together. Fashion.
So that was the dream? I think so.

Were we going to design shit? Yeah. Most weeks ago.
I wanted to be Carl Lagerfeld, man. Oh, okay.
I wanted to just the ponytail with the chicks. I had no idea what it was.

Oh, so you were just in it for the women? No, but

I do love fashion. That's interesting, though, but you didn't necessarily want a regular education.
You were going to go to New York and be a fashion guy.

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't that great at school, but I was good at drawing and stuff. Where'd you come from? Texas,

Dallas-Fort Worth area. Really? Yeah.
Born in Kilgore, Texas. Kilgore.
Trailer Park town. Yeah.
Were you in a trailer park? When I was a kid, yeah. So your family lived in a trailer park?

When I was a little kid, yeah. Yeah.
Up until infant to like sex, the whole family? Whole family, yeah. Stayed together.
Yeah, my dad married my mom. She had two kids and then had me.
Yeah.

And then we

were the third kid of them. She was the third kid of them.
Yeah. She had two different, two different dads.

Oh, she was married before your dad? Yeah, yeah, twice. So you got, oh, so they're all separate.

They're both half-brothers, yeah. But they all have separate fathers? Yes.
Oh, that's exciting.

Do you still?

They had the double Christmases. I hated it.

Double presents.

Do you get along with those guys? Nah.

One, no.

One is dead to me. And then one just got sober, so I'm okay with him because, you know.
So everybody was fucked up? Oh, yeah. Whole family's fucked up.
Really? What'd your dad do?

Well, he sold, he was a salesman. He sold like fire alarms.
Like they used to be these big metal fire alarms back in the 70s. Yeah.
I don't know if you remember those at all. Like he sold those.

Oh, yeah, yeah. They said fire on him.
Yeah.

He sold them in the trailer park, and then he got a job selling cars, and we kind of moved out of the park. It's a hustler.
Yeah, we ended up in Wichita Falls.

Kansas? No, Texas. Wichita Falls, Texas.
Oh, okay. It's about 200 miles from Dallas.
So you're real born in the blood Texan. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's why, you know, the cowboy hat.

Once you know all that, it makes more sense.

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying it just makes more sense.
Yeah, but it wasn't, you know, you weren't wearing it like you rode something.

You weren't

wearing it like you worked in the cowboy hike.

My high school had a rodeo team. Were you on that? No.

Look, dude, I'll be honest with you.

I went to a camp when I was younger in Pecos, New Mexico, where you were required to have a cowboy hat because you were going to be riding horses. Yeah, I've ridden horses.

So I've owned a couple of Stetsons, the straw ones, not the felt ones. And I've gone through periods with hats.
I've bent them down like you do. You make the point on it so you can look like Willie.

You know,

yeah, I've done that. You know, it was a long time ago.

I wore out several different pairs of black cowboy boots.

I'm not adverse to it.

I've seen your cowboy shirts. I've seen your leather pants.

I went through that phase. The leather pants I still have.
I'm going to get back to them.

It's a good time. They never worked for me.

They worked. Not really.
You did them on a special, didn't you? No, I'm Conan once. Okay.
I remember. I never wore the leather pants on a special.

What was that special you did where

you smelled Morrison's boot just to smell the magic or something. Remember that one? Oh, it was like a hard rock or something.

Oh, yeah, yeah, you just smelled the boot just to smell the magic. I remember that joke, yeah.
It was on a special. I think it was a hard rock that you went into and then you

grabbed the boot. Yeah, I don't know if I did that on a special, but I did that first special at the Fillmore in 95, the half hour, but that was just black jeans, black shirt.

I think I didn't even wear the cap. I thought you improv something up top, and that was a big deal to us.
Oh, yeah, yeah, about the just improv. About the venue, yeah, yeah, yeah.

She just went off, dude. I know.
On a special, on a special. I know.
That dumbest thing I ever did. Anyway, half that special was

like, I'm not going to prepare, man.

I'm glad somebody appreciated the completely irresponsible punk rock nature of whatever the fuck I was doing. Because I didn't see it as punk rock.
I was just sort of like, I got to be in it, man.

No, I loved all that shit. It was great.
But so, wait, so your whole family was boozy? Boozy.

My dad had a

like a bar. Oh.
The Chaffin Downtown Lounge. Oh, so he had a professional place to drink.
Oh, yeah. And it was basically a biker bar.
It was like all the spider gang or

those gangs were there. Yeah.
And so, but we were always there. I mean, we'd be playing pinball, kiss pinball machine, and then just all this biker activities.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, geez, we're sitting at a bar.

Isn't anywhere there's more than one biker considered biker activity?

There's two of them. Something's going on.
Something going on. They're playing cards.
I I don't know. It's getting rowdy.

Something's going to go bad here. Uh-oh, here comes another guy with another jacket.
That's going to end badly. Guy with the different jacket doesn't have a shot in this situation.

I'd just be drinking Shirley Temples

at the bar next to some dude that's probably facing manslaughter

or on the run from something. Oh, yeah.
But it turned into a strip club. Okay.
Because the old lady just decided to just take her top off one night. Oh, really? Is it your mom? Yeah.

Is that what you're talking about? No, not my mom. Oh, okay.
They call, you know, the biker. They call old lady.
Oh, yeah, sure. Okay.
Okay.

Okay. Yeah.

I'm like, this is getting really interesting.

Yeah, I mean, but she, yeah, so then it just became a strip club.

The biker chicks would take their shirts off everywhere. Oh, I know.
But then you tried to do like legit stripper club. Okay.
Brain girl. How'd that go?

It did okay. Mom shut it down after about a year.

When she found out about it?

Yeah, they were kind of hiding it from her, I think.

Yeah, it was kind of like what happens at the chafing downtown lounge.

But I imagine that, you know, the behavior once it became a strip club biker bar that your dad was getting into some pretty messy shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just guns. A lot of guns at the house.
No, he died a couple years ago. Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, guns, you know, guns are around. I mean, I grew up in New Mexico, and everyone's got a fucking gun.

But I mean, on the table, like this knife is, like, a handgun would just be right there.

I think that's legal now. Yeah, I would pick one.
I remember I picked one up and just started running around the house, and

it was a whole thing. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. You got in a little trouble? A little bit.
Yeah. A lot of trouble.
Pulled a gun on my dad once. You did? Yeah.
With intent? Yeah, he was smacking my mom.

Oh, drunk. Jesus Christ.

And how'd that go? How'd that end up with you pulling a gun? He stopped.

And did that stick, though? I think so. It freaked him out.
How old were you? 12, maybe. Ah.
It's that age where you can

know what's going on. Yeah, you know, so you're that anger's starting to sink in a little bit.
And I think your mom probably was like, you know, you were probably her favorite after that, huh?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Is she still around? Yeah, she is. What does she do? She's a

comic. No, she's assistant living.
Oh, yeah.

She's all right. Yeah.
She's got her head. Yeah, that she does have.
Her legs, not so much. Oh, well, that's a hard time walking, but she's, you know, she's got, she's got her wits.
She's funny.

Oh, that's great. Yeah.
So that sounds pretty dramatic, dude. So when did you finally get out of the family situation?

I think, well, I met a Mormon girl in high school. That'll straighten you up.
Yeah.

For a little while. Good for you.
A life preserver came out of nowhere.

Pretty much.

Because it's like the opposite world. Yeah.
So it's like.

The opposite of what? It's its own world. Yeah.
Yeah. But.

No, I mean, I, I, I, you know, just going to somebody's house and cops not being called and like people eating dinner and like talking to each other, like that was new to me.

No one's hitting your mom. Yeah.

I put my gun away, you know.

I wanted to be like Mad Max.

But did they want you in? Did you get... Yeah, I got in, man.
I went in hard. Oh, did you take it? Oh, yeah.
It was like...

Full secret underpants and everything. Oh, yeah, everything.

Well, I was with her, you know, this cute little blonde from Utah. That's how they get you.

They send him out. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, this guy's prime. This guy's a mark.
Look at him. He's all lost and angry.

Doesn't like being at home. We'll take him.
Cowboy hat. Let's get him.

We broke up. Yeah.
And then I think to get her back, I was like, I wanted to be a missionary. So I went all in with that.
I kind of think I knew this about you a little. Yeah.

Because I think it was part of your backstory

once you got out of it. Yeah.

So, okay, so

what did you go to Utah?

Well, I went to the Provo Missionary Training Center. Okay, so wait, so you meet the girl? Meet the girl.
She's not going to fuck you. We did.
We did.

She felt bad, and that's why she broke up with me because she, you know, I made her a sinner. So she had nothing to do with me.
So is this at the beginning? The beginning. Yeah.

I wasn't supposed to go on a mission. They let me go anyway.
Wait, so wait, so you lock in with this girl. Yeah.
You don't have sex for a while. We don't, but then we do.

But right, but at that point, you already decided to go to do it? No, no, no. This is after.
We broke up, then I decided to. And then she lost her shit, spiraled.

Now she's got to go back to the church and get clean somehow. Yeah.
Then I got focused and said, I'll show you. I'll be super Mormon.
To get her back. Kind of, probably.
I don't know.

You're just, you're young and stupid. So you go to Provost.
Yeah.

Okay.

So I get baptized. I got to get baptized first.
So that happened.

I wasn't Mormon yet. So you got to get baptized in the Mormon faith.
So we broke up. I baptized.
I became a Mormon. I did the whole thing.
Then I went to Provo, Utah, Missionary Training Center.

They teach you how to manipulate people, baptize people, all that stuff, and Spanish, because I went to Santiago Chile. None of this helped your stand-up?

I would think just the manipulating people would be an applicable skill. Well, I'm here.

That's true.

That's true.

You kept pushing out of nowhere. Hey, remember we were friends, kinda?

I'm like, yeah, I'll see what I can do. And then again, hey, what's up?

I knew better. I knew if I didn't hit you twice, I was going to get lost under Nick Croll's cousin or something.

So I did that and I went to... Oh, wait, what did they teach you? Just how to talk to people in public.
Okay.

Well, that's helpful. How to knock on a door and be like...
Annoying? Yeah, pretty much. Did you wear the suit? You had to wear the suit.

Bicycle. Bicycle.
Yeah. Here's a crazy story.

Okay. So

I do this thing, right? And

I'm stateside waiting to go to Chile.

And I get sick. Yeah.
And I have a prostate problem. This is is all real.

And I go to the doctor, and the doctor's like, okay, the only way you're going to get rid of this prostate problem is if you masturbate. And so, but missionaries aren't allowed to masturbate.

But you're not drinking coffee. No, we can't do anything.
I know. Yeah, but we can't.
It can't irritate the prostate sometimes. Okay.

The coffee. No, no coffee.
So you were actually getting a prostate problem because of your commitment to Mormonism? You weren't jerking off. Because I wasn't jerking off, pretty much, yeah.

If you stop jerking off after you, I think it creates a thing. I mean, that's.
Especially if you're used to doing it like every day. It's almost like

you're going to get withdrawal, get backed up. Yeah.
Yeah. So,

yeah. So you got to do it.
I go to the doctor, and then, but missionary, we have a, we have a vow of celibacy, so we're not supposed to do any of that. Yeah.
And so I go to the missionary president.

Yeah. And, and they show him the prescription.

But that's, but that's not enough. They get, they send it to Salt Lake, like the equivalent of the elders.
The elders. The elders had a fucking elders quorum.
Yeah. Yeah.
And in the Salt Lake Temple.

Yeah.

And so they pray on it. Oh, wow.
It's a whole like.

Yeah, you took a, you were, you were the business for a couple of days. What are we going to do with this guy that needs to jerk off? So they asked their nine wives.

We got to give him three women. Yeah.
And so that comes back. And then they say that I can do it.
It becomes a thing. And so, but 5,000 missionaries.
Was it a written permission kind of thing?

Pretty much. Wow.
So out of 5,000 missionaries, I'm the only one that can like. Jerk off.
Jerk off. You're like a hero.
I am. Well, I'm like a Judas to most of them.
Oh, really?

Because they were like, this freaking guy. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, wow. Well, that was part of my story.
Repressed hate. They were like,

what's this doctor's name? It's like guys going to get heroin from guys who give out prescriptions.

Sorry, doctor's orders, man. Yeah.
What's the name of the doctor?

All of a sudden everybody's got a prostate problem.

The guy that broke the Mormon church with the jerk-off script.

So you're jerking off, you're feeling better. Feeling better.
Then I got to stop. I start to feel bad after a while.
Jerking off? It gets better.

I guess it passes if you. Okay, okay.
So then you locked back in. I locked back in.
And you're going door to door? And I'm in Chile.

So at the Watchtower magazine. Oh, no, that's in Jejos.

So I'm in Chile. I'm in

Santiago. Yeah.
And then I end up in Robins Caruso Island, which is like... That's a real place? Yeah.
Well, it's Isile Juan Fernandez. It's an island.

Basically, it's like 250 miles off the coast of Chile. Wow.
And so I was there with like 200 people.

With 200 people who live there. Who live there? yeah.
And you're the only Mormon in a suit. Yeah, there's two of us, two Mormons.
You always have to have a companion. So it's two of us.

Wow. And that was the job? You had 200.
It seems like at least a finite number.

You'll know when you're done.

Well, everybody's Catholic. It's Chile.
Yeah. No, I get it.
So there was like four,

probably five Mormons on the whole thing. What, that you got?

Or they were there? I never got anybody there. Did you ever get anybody anywhere? Yeah, I did.
I got like 12. Yeah, they still in.
Which is a big deal.

I think a couple of them, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. All right.
So you. I'm not, but they are.
And I know. So you get back from Chile.
How long were you there for? Two years. Holy shit, dude.

It's like a whole other world in life. Yeah, it's two years.
So you come back and I see they meet you at the airport with signs. Yay.
They didn't. Oh, because I

go to Mormons. Huh? Whoa.

But you're in the game. Yeah, but my mom doesn't care.
Oh, you know.

Every time I go to Salt Lake, there's some sort of

long dress reception line.

Well, that's what I was hoping for. It didn't happen.
My mom showed up late. It was like really.

Your mom's Mormon, too? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. They just kind of went with this thing.
They're like, at least not at the bar. Yeah, at least he's not.
And you're not drinking or nothing?

Nothing. So what happens with the woman? I think she married a returned missionary dude and she has kids and stuff.
Oh, really? Yeah. So

how did I look? When do you lose your faith? Were you brought up Christian?

Yeah, kind of. But not heavy.
Well, my parents would go back and forth. It was like they would get sober and then, you know,

when my dad would be broke, he would find God. You know, that was, I could always tell about how much money we had, how many times.
Well, he had him, but he just reintroduced himself. Yeah.

But. That's a popular thing in the Christian prayer.
Hey, you remember me?

I'm back. Yeah, I mean,

we had to burn our Kiss albums.

No, you went that hard? Oh, yeah. There was was a church parking lot.
I remember just like throwing it. Come on.
That was the church. Was it Baptist?

Something like that. Something like that.
Something like that. Pentecostally, I think.
With their speaking tongues, all that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's what it is. Sure.

That's Pentecostal. I think it's Baptist.
And then we were allowed to, we could, we could, Striper was the only band we could listen to. Striper.
Yeah. Remember that band? I do kind of.

Were they Christian?

Christian rock band. That's the one problem I have with the idea.
Well, that's not true. There's many problems.

But it's like the one problem I have with the idea of a Christian nation and just how bad everything's going to be. Oh, yeah.
Like Christian jazz,

Christian rock, Christian movies,

Christian poetry, Christian jewelry. Christian novels.

It's like just like take the fucking menace out of everything and make it just. Oh, yeah.
All the Christian actors are terrible. Oh, just

Cavizio used to be good. What was it? The guy who played Jesus in Mel's movie.
Oh, that guy. Mel's pretty good, too, but they're crazy Catholics.
Yeah,

that's a different energy, though. Totally.
That's not like that Bobo Bell energy.

No, it's not like, it's not like that's, that's one of Nate's best bits, the varieties of Christian just based on his family's commitment and his siblings. It's great.

And I told him that. I said, like, you know, no one has ever talked about it like that.
Because there is, for most people, you know, if you're Jewish, you got a thing.

You know, if you're, you know, a Muslim, you got a thing. But Christians are just Christians.

And to explore the varieties of kind of born-again Christians, you know, their commitment at the beginning and watching it diminish with each kid. It's very funny.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

All right, so anyway, I texted him. He didn't text me back.
Am I in the outs? Am I bad? Am I, isn't my... He's making a movie right now.
Okay, I'll let him off the hook.

He's like, yeah, he's going to be the next Steve Martin. He's doing that thing.
Well, we'll see.

He's got to be able to act it. I think he probably can.
Another thing. They write it right for him.
I feel like now he's at a point they're going to do it. They know what to do with him and his

delivery

with this SNL stuff. Like, they know where his strengths are.
Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

That's important for him. Like with you, it's like they, you know, when you're doing it.

They still don't know what to do with it. They're just like,

you got to be Mark in those days. I'm glad he

figured it out and we can have him over.

He's got me, so that's all that matters.

But

all right, so how does the Mormon thing end?

Finding comedy.

Oh, really? So

you're in. I came to New York.
But did you go? I'm in art school. Were you living in Utah? No.

Well, I went to BYU, Idaho, which was like a. Wow, these are the worst places.
Oh, yeah. Rexburg, Idaho is where I was.
Brigham Young University in Idaho. I know they had a franchise.

Yeah, they do have a franchise. In Idaho.
It was called Rick's College before. Okay.
It was like...

So that's when

it's like a Mormon community college. It's for people who can't get into BYU.
Wow.

And then you go from there and you get into BYU. But I ended up.
But you were still, you're believing, you're wearing the underwear. You're doing the whole thing?

I mean, I was starting to slip a little. There were were some moments

with girls and stuff. Oh, okay.
That was always the, that was always. And then what is the process of sinning and redemption on a day-to-day basis with Mormon-ness?

Okay, so you do something, you jerk off, you fuck, and then the next day you're like, what I do, then what happens? It's a big deal. It's like a court thing.

You got to own it in front of other people. Yeah.
It's a whole thing. It's not like Catholics where you can just be anonymous and just go in and be like, hey,

or Christians, you can just do it at home. Yeah.
You know? or in a hotel. Yeah.
But this is, yeah, so it's like a whole thing.

You got to like. That's where it happens.
A lot of prayers in hotel rooms. There's a Bible in there.

Huh?

You got to write that joke.

Because that's where the sin happens. Right? Boom.
That is funny. I'm writing that down.
You got to write that down.

And if it's a Marriott, it's a Book of Mormon.

Do you know that? They own all the Marriotts. Sure, yeah.

You're writing it down? Yeah, sure. All right.

It's a workshop. No, I think that's a good, it's a great premise

why they have them in there. Because that's where all the bad shit happens.
Yeah.

That's where all the bad decisions happen. Oh, yeah.

It's so true. Yeah.

Okay. So you hit, but do you remember the day where you lost your faith?

Or is it a process? Well, you know,

New York was a pretty cool place to be Mormon because... Oh, so you moved there as a Mormon to do confidence.
Yeah, yeah. To go to school.
No, not Company. At Parsons.
School, Parsons. As a a Mormon.

So you're a Mormon. So as a Mormon Parsons.
You had Mormon guys there? No, but the church in Manhattan was like all the Juilliard people. So it was like interesting, you know.

And the church let you go.

You had to ask? What to let go to go? To go to New York? No, no, no, no. Okay.
No. I mean, I transferred out of BYU, Idaho, to go to

Parsons. All right.
So I'm there. And I'm in, you know, I'm a Mormon in Manhattan.
Okay. And it's all like, you know, basically kids that haven't come out yet.
Yeah. You know, is basically what it is.

All these like song and dance people that are coming here in Utah, they're like, yeah, he's just like

part of the choir.

Yeah. He's just focused, you know.
But yeah, so all that was happening, but I enjoyed it. It was cool.
And then it just comedy was like, you know, the dirtbags and comedy. Yeah.

And then in school. That's one of them.
I know.

Yeah. Well, then the Amsterdam chicks and like,

what about Amsterdam? Well, there was like girls from Amsterdam, like my first year of college. Parsons.
Yeah. And I think that's probably what this girl.
What, did did it?

This girl from Amsterdam, yeah. She did.
Dutch girl, whatever. She was, yeah.
And that was, it was done. I was like, yeah,

I'm giving it up for the Dutch girl. I mean, come on.
We've all been there.

You were kind of there.

Yeah, for a while.

So

I didn't wear the hat, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With the Dutch girl the hat? Yeah, with leather pants, though. Oh, yeah, I did try that.
Cowboy shirts. That was me.
Cowboy shirts were always me. Yeah.
Yeah.

I don't know that I, have I dressed, have I let girls really dress me? I guess Mishna had a little input because she was an ex-model and she knew. Yeah.
But like, no, I mean,

I wear five things, dude. I finally leveled off.
I hired a leveling off, yeah. I hired a

stylist just recently because I have stuff going up TV stuff. And I always end up wearing the same shirt to the point where people are like, doesn't he have another shirt?

I know I'm on TV with the same fucking pants over and over again.

So I just bought a bunch of clothes. I thought, like, well, these aren't really my style.
And then you put them on and you're like, oh, there's a lot I don't know.

I look pretty fucking good in this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's got to have somebody dressed. So the Dutch girl, how long does that last? Just, I don't know, six months.

But you start doing comedy then? Yeah.

All that started happening about the same time. Okay.
New York Comedy Club, all that stuff. Actually, I met you.
I think I started kind of experimenting. I think I'd never smoked weed, really.
Yeah.

I smoked it with you first. Really? Yeah.
Okay.

You're welcome. At Gotham.

You're welcome.

Out in front of Gotham. Yeah.
and I was, yeah. I remember, because the beginning, we would, yeah, we kind of hang out a little bit because you were there all the time.
Yeah.

And so, yeah, I think you'd take me over to like the cellar or something. I'd be too paranoid to talk to people.
I remember you yelling at me once. You're like, dude, you got to talk to people.

And I'm like, I don't know. I'm just, my girlfriend was there at the time.
You're like, is it your girlfriend? Because your girlfriend's here. Is she bringing you down? She's making you clam up.

And I'm like, ah!

I was at the cellar just looking around, just trying to get accepted. And you're just like yelling at me.
It was amazing. I love it.
It was like, you're all jacked up, and you're just coming at me.

I'm probably still on blow.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I did a bump with you once.
Yeah, sure. Good time.
Yeah. Well, I'm glad I was there to help.
I've tried to help a lot of people.

Well, I also got sober with you a little bit. Like, you helped me with that.
So it's like a fun like, went there and then went there. So it's a

full experience with you. That's right.
Because I was definitely in and out of sobriety. When I was there, what year are we talking now?

To maybe around 2000.

Yeah, so that was probably 2000. Okay, so that was probably

right. So that was like, that's when I really got sober.
So you missed the in-and-out thing with me, but I got sober for the last time in 99. Okay.
And then, you know, then some Mishnah was around.

Yeah. And I was, what, tried taking to meetings and shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We went to meetings. Yeah.
I remember. I was a little different stuff.
Hung out after.

That's why I would go to the next one. Mishna was probably

more involved with that than I was, I bet. Oh, with me?

Well, yeah, in the sense of like, you know, he needs help, let's take him to the thing. Yeah, yeah, and because you guys were sort of of the same generation, a little bit, yeah.
And then Geraldo

ended up kind of sponsoring me. Really? Yeah.

Wow. So did he relapse as your sponsor? Yeah.

He was, we both kind of relapsed. Uh-huh.
Together? A little. Well, that's some graduate level shit there for doing drugs with Geraldo.
Oh, yeah.

Well, he would always like, yeah, he'd be like, hey, man, let's just go to the lake house and we'll just like, we'll write for three days and we'll just get together, you know, like he, it was great.

He would, yeah, it was so, you just want to be a part of it. No, he's great.
I really missed that guy, man. Yeah, he was great.
So

and, you know, I had no idea how deep he in he was with the, with the drugs.

I'm not naive, but like some guys, you know, I didn't hang out with him enough, but like he had a real battle with the fucking drugs. And I just had no idea.
Well, just wasn't, it wasn't happy at all.

Like his wife, they didn't like each other. Like Like it was just the whole thing, man.
Yeah, but he was a drug addict. Oh, yeah.
But like, I just like, you know, I remember talking to him.

He said, one of the greatest things, you know, like he helped me frame when I was getting divorced. Yeah.

Because I'd gone back and I was, you know, working through this divorce and I was paying the woman off because I took that second job at Air America so I could pay her off.

And I was like complaining about it.

And, you know, I told him, like, she got me sober, you know, but it was costing me like, you know, hundreds of a couple hundred of grand to all in with the divorce.

He goes, well, you know, that's what I spent on three rehabs. I'm like, okay, I'll frame it like that.
I'm sober, and that's what it costs me. Yeah.
That's a good way to frame it.

Yeah, he was a great, brilliant guy. So funny.
It was, I mean, to me, it was always you, him, and Stanhope. Those are

my three. You guys are my three, man.
Thank you.

Me, Geraldo, and Stanhope. Those banged up dudes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never met in my life.

You got no choice but to cut your own path with that bunch of heroes you got to go get yourself a rank i think i relapsed watching stanhope once because it was like so electric that early got like an early drunk show sure and it was like oh it's phenomenal watching him just kind of pool and yeah oh yeah it's so great i still love him i think he's just fantastic yeah he's a great guy and i haven't talked to him in a while but he checks in occasionally i like that he he he he had to eventually tell the bartenders not to make it real booze because they they kept sending him the audience kept sending him booze and he's like i can't do it how's he doing i think he's good he's touring now yeah he's out there i'm real close with him but he's touring yeah oh i should check in with him yeah so so how does it go in new york because you're you're you're

really kind of hitting it and you're but you you don't stay sober so how fucked up are you uh it's bad you know it's like uh because i think my mom sent me some my mom used to work for a doctor and stuff like she uh she always had access to like prescription drugs yeah so she'd we'd always like i would just get you know some sort of antidepressant or something that wasn't prescribed by anybody it just was sent to me by my mom and then i would drink whiskey on it and so there's like really bad moments just out x fexer i think was one of them i've got drunk on that yeah it got her problem but uh but you had mental problems yeah i had a really bad ex i think you met her she was terrible man just an awful i can't remember her red hair oh yeah still yeah it was rough she was she was around that time wait she worked at the cellar?

She didn't work there.

She didn't work at the cellar. I'm trying to remember her.
But uh but so what happens? How do you hit the wall? Uh

just kind of suicide, I think. I was like trying to do trying to, you know, sleeping pills and whatever and ended up in

St. Vincent's in the ER, pumped my stomach, all that stuff.
Really? Yeah, it was rough and then ended up in a psych ward. And next thing you know, I woke up and I'm in this psych ward, man.
What?

In Man in Manhattan. Yeah.
So you had the girl, you were trying to manage your mental problems. You were on, what kind of drugs were you on? Everything, but whatever anybody gave me.
Oh, really?

It was kind of one of those things where the bag it in was like a fun sure. It was like you pull the gates down.
Yeah. What do you who's there? Yeah.
What dealer's there?

Who's got what's in somebody's pocket? That's what I did. I never

seeked out too much. I mean, sometimes I'd buy blow, but it wasn't like something.

You didn't get involved with dope. He was always around, though.
Yeah. No needles or anything.
None of that. Snorting that heroin? No.
No, I didn't do it. Blow crack.
Oh, yeah, sure. Whatever.

Kept it upbeat.

Kept it 90s.

I'm a retro guy. I buy vinyl.
Well, I'm an up guy. I'm not a down guy.
Except with these Zins. A lot of people say they give them energy.
Me, they just knock me down.

The Zins knock me down. You have a natural intensity.
Exactly. They kind of counter that to the point where by four o'clock, I need to fucking nap because I'm nauseous.

And we're not 20. That's true.
That's true. So you end up in a psych ward.
How long were you in there for? Two weeks. What'd you learn? First meeting.
First AA meeting was in there.

I remember there used to be a regular meeting in St. Vincent's.
Yeah. Like downstairs, right? That's where it was.
Yeah. Yeah, because you'd go to that meeting, there'd just be guys in hospital gowns.

Well, that's what I said. It's like, it's one thing to be like around crazy people in the subway.
It's one thing to be around crazy people with an open gown.

That's a whole nother vulnerability, man. And they're in

the room next to you. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I remember that meeting.

That was a good part of early sobriety is like, you know, let's go to the meeting where these guys don't even know what you're talking about. Oh, yeah.

And they're like, some of them are just, they're barely dry. Well, yeah, it'd be guys would be like, yeah, I just stabbed a guy in the neck or whatever.

And they'd get to me and I'd be like, I'm mad at my dad. Yeah, yeah.

It's just

rough, dude.

And then I learned like to get out of the psych ward, you got to do all the stuff you got to go to the meetings yeah you got to you got to check in with the guys that were like i ain't doing any of this yeah were the guys that stayed there so i learned early or or are frequent visitors yeah yeah but i learned if you wanted to get out you had to just whatever they were whatever activity whatever because it was a court order kind of thing because you tried to offer yourself yeah they have to do it right so they just it was kind of one of those things

do you think you meant to kill yourself you were you wanted to i think so i think i was kind of done done with the girl done with life done with comedy i don't know you couldn't in a bad place couldn't speak up

yeah my dad and i we had a rough i know that feeling though like if you're like if you're like a guy that you know wants to please people yeah you know by wearing hats and whatnot

the

stupid

if you have that was my idea man chicks dug it i've never you've never seen me with an unattractive woman because they love it i mean they're all into like they want that character man okay okay

I understand the reason that

you've moved through life and then you got a bad one and that sent you over the edge. I'm just saying that

because I deal with myself is that if you have someone that you want, that you're infatuated with or in love with or whatever you think or you're involved with even,

it becomes hard to say like, I want out. Yeah.
To them so you can just do it like a regular person and take the hit. It's easier sort of like, I want out.
I'm going to end me. Be dramatic.

Because I don't want it. Well, it's just like you don't, it's hard.
You think you're gonna hurt somebody or think you're afraid of confrontation. You know, who the hell knows?

Yeah, I think my dad had a lot to do with it, too. We were having some like shady, like, he had me take over his business.

In Texas? Yeah. So he went back to the divorce.

I didn't go back, but he had a divorce. Yeah.
And she was trying to take all his money and company. And so we put your name on shit.
Yep. We had the same middle name.
And so it was like all that shit.

Did you lose money because of that? I did. And he was like, the IRS was a bunch of, owed money on it.
It was like a shady, like, why would you put your son through that?

Bad enough what you did with my mom, and you're going to do that. And they stayed together? No.
Oh, okay. No, she married a doctor.
That's what I was saying. Oh, right, right, right.

So she got out of that. The one that she stole the most from.

So, all right, so you get out of the psych ward, you're in AA? Yeah. I think it starts to.

What year was that? Well, this, it didn't, I didn't, it didn't take. The AA didn't take in the psych ward.
I just wanted to be out. Yeah, yeah, I get it.
It took later.

When I met you, it took, but it was 2000. That's about the time it started taking.
I relapsed after that. Sure.
You know, but eventually it took 17 years.

Yeah, well, that's great. But so, like, but what's the process? When do you start earning the money as a comic?

What were you out there headlining?

I always ran clubs. Yeah.
You know, that was part of it. And then I started kind of getting out there a little bit.
Yeah. Just started making money.
And, you know, getting by. Yeah, getting by.

Were you doing other jobs? No. No.
It was always comedy. I either ran a club or I was on the road.
Right. It wasn't like, I never, you know, I wasn't like, didn't put a name tag on or anything.

But I mean, what, but even and stayed sober somehow. Yeah.
Yeah. But like, what,

where, were, were you ever like, sort of, I, you know, I got to get, get something going?

I'm still, man, trying to get something going.

I'm doing this.

This is it. You're my Dick Cabot.
Let's go.

No, but comedy is always that, man. It's like, I don't know.
It's like, now I'm at a place where I'm working with Nate. I'm doing cruises.

You know, whatever. Hold on, back up.
So, all right, so you're out there, you're running clubs,

you're making ends meet. You're still living in New York.
Sure. But you weren't clean.
No. Is it comedy?

No, not at all. You know, and you, you know, you had the jokes and

the twitch and the thing. It's like they had that Attel thing going on.
Yeah, jokes. Yeah, yeah.
We were all raised by Atel. Yeah.
Yeah. There's a whole generation of Attels.
And then, so

at what point,

like,

when do you start doing boats? That's post-that's happening now, yeah. So after Nate.
So, okay, so you're, you know, but you and Nate are pals because you ran that room together.

You met Nate in New York.

I took a chance on him. You know, you put him on stage.
I put him on stage when he wasn't quite ready. Yeah.
And he had to work through it. And it was.

So you were one of the only ones giving him stage time. I was at the beginning.
I was like the first guy, the first real guy that knew all you guys. Right.
And so that's how it was.

He was able to get stage time and work together and meet everybody, which is part of the thing. If you're not meeting the right person.
How long had he been in New York?

Just fresh. I mean,

right there. And then he lived with me.

So that's what I say. I gave him stage time and I gave him a place to live.
Oh, you and Aronovich, too. Yeah.
Yeah.

I was like that movie Blindside. That's what I say.
I'm Nate Sandra Bullock.

Interesting. Because I just talked to Aronovich.
Oh, you did? Mm-hmm. Okay.

Do you guys do this? Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.
Yeah, because like, oddly. He was talking about you.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
He wanted to do this. Because I helped him get sober.
Yeah. Yeah.
And

yeah, both of us. Yeah.
And, you know, and it was weird because there was one time where I'm like, I got to, like, and I don't get this because I'm barely, I'm not.

that active in meetings and stuff anymore, but I'm pretty sober.

And I talk to sober people, but like, I was kind of spinning and I'm like, all right, I'm going to try and call I'm just gonna call Rich and you know, do straight program call. Oh, wow, yeah,

and he did it, that's great, yeah,

and then he's on the podcast,

whatever works, man. That's for sure.
No, I always like that guy, you know. Oh, he's funny, man.
He's like a, he's, you know, it's like a trained performance guy.

But he's a good guy, he's a good-hearted guy, you know. You know, he's, you know, he's a Jew like me, and, you know, we're nuts in a certain way.

and but you know you guys you got kids now right no oh well that's good yeah so but he's

two dogs man of a dog good for you good for you yeah i win but you know rich has got kids and i'm like how's that going yeah right but he loves them and he's a good dad he loves him of course he's a good dad it's not easy it's not hard to be a good dad i think these days i guess yeah but you know there's a lot of shitty dads out there still happening yeah of course it's happening you know half the country's republican you think that's because of good parenting?

They think they're good parents. They think they're making all the moves.
But what about their parents? Oh, they're bad.

They're not good.

Nate's just one of the good ones. Yeah.
You know, because he's got that Jesus going. But

so that's interesting. So you,

you know, because Nate's a loyal guy.

I had to earn it.

But I'm just saying I had to figure it out.

Right, but he knew your position in his life. He knew that you were the guy that got him on stage.

Yeah, but I was also, you know, I was working. I was getting stuff going.

And I think he, you know, and I told him and I had to convince him, you know, so wait, wait, so this is like, so when I saw him in Michigan, he hadn't broke yet.

And then all of a sudden, you know, Fallon took him and it just, it all happened fairly quickly. And, you know, and he, but he's always been that guy.
Yeah. Nate.
Clean. I mean, comedy-wise.

Well, he has a lot, like, he has all those Legion of the Skanks guys, like, they're all his buddies and whatever. From New York.
Yeah. But he was always clean, right?

Yeah, but those guys didn't do the work to figure it out with him. So it's like he always had problems with some of those guys.
Yeah. It's like they couldn't quite be clean.

And so I just figured it out. Yeah.
And it was tough. And it's not easy because I'm still dark.

No, but I just mean for him, for Nate, like, you know, his success, you know, he had it coming and he earned it. But it's just interesting that he was always clean.

Even back in New York, he was not. No, even like a late show at Boston, he would be clean.

That's the amazing thing about, that's why I didn't notice him until Michigan, because when you operate at that pace and you don't have a second gear, you got to wait and hope it works.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because

you can't make any adjustments to that, right? You just got to wait till they come around. Todd was the same way.
There are guys that operate at a certain pace.

But he found his gear, which is crowd work.

Right. But he also found his gear in doing stand-up because when we started, it was hard to get laughs.
Jeff Lifshultz, Jeff Ross, the same way.

As you start out in a certain zone, and and if you lock into it because that's who you are then you know you hope for the best and that happened with nate so when nate starts breaking and you know what how does how do you how does that how do you get locked in with him over after all those years

just kind of reached out yeah i knew he was doing those um you know around covid and he was doing some you know starting to do some shows again yeah and uh i just asked and said hey man i'm working on a cleaner set yeah just did a you know the audition for AGT.

I'm trying to do all this stuff. And I said, I can pull it off.

And we did, I think our first thing together was Off the Hook, the Comedy Club in Naples, Florida.

And yeah, I did all right. I was clean, ish.
So he wasn't a big act yet, but he was headlining.

He was about to be.

I think Tennessee Kid was pretty popular.

That Netflix special.

And so he was starting to get kind of, and then I think his podcast started to kind of reach people between that and Tennessee Kid. Right.
So it started to come up. And then, yeah, and then he just.

So it was just, he just had you open for him? Yeah, it was just me. At that point, it was just me at the 25 minutes or whatever.
And then it became more comics and became a bigger family.

And now he's a bigger family. It's like a caravan of clowns.

We like to call it an entourage. Okay, sorry.

Or a festival. A big caravan of clean clowns

running around in a bus.

A jet. Let's just

keep that jet.

A jet full of jet full. I'll take it.
Non-partying clowns. I don't care.
That's all right. I'll take it.

It's a good time. So it's you and Julian and a couple guys.

It's probably like eight guys.

We rotate out. We rotate out.
Okay, so how many people are on an arena show? Probably like

Julian's usually the MCs. Julian, and Michael MCs, and then three and then Nate.
Nate. Yeah.
And that's the show.

It's like 50 up top, and then he does the rest. Okay.
Yeah.

He does it like 50 more?

Yeah, he does an hour. Yeah.
He's working on a new one, so

it's an hour. Yeah.

And he's one of the few guys left. I mean, you're like that.
There's certain guys that are purist, you know, doing the hour. You do the hour.
Yep. Yeah, I got one coming out in August for HBO.
Nice.

Yeah, that's all right. It's good.

I'm happy with it. It looks great.

Excited. Thank you.
I think you'll like it.

But it enabled you to sort of, I imagine the responsibility of it is real, you know, to do those shows and to figure out how to do them and to do them clean.

I mean, to do 18,000 people, you know, is I don't care who it's with, to be able to do that is, you know, pretty great. Yeah.
And to feel that, to feel what, I mean, that's like Aerosmith.

I mean, that doesn't even, that even comics aren't supposed to do that. Yeah.
And so to be a part of that is pretty amazing. Yeah, no, I bet you it's great.

And then it's like we get to be a part of the hour. We get to add and tag and write and talk to him.
And, you know, he's our buddy, but at the same time, we all get to like, you know,

got workshop shit yeah we're always you know it's it's always that yeah so I enjoy that those moments where he's trying to work out a bit yeah we're all like we're all in this together yeah yeah it's like he he takes it from us and like we'll rework a bit and whatever so it's great

one time he let me do his set list like I rearranged everything and so it's stuff like that yeah yeah did it work

almost

He had to tell a story. I think it didn't work.

And he had to tell a story that he had told before. It was like a whole thing.

But

he did it wrong. He missed one of my marks.
So then he had to tell a story. But it worked for the most part.
Yeah, yeah. But whatever.
I mean, he's cool like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whatever.

No, I love him. Yeah.

So in terms of like, has that upped

your visibility? I think so. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you do all right when you do funny bones and shit? Yeah, I do okay.
Yeah. Your headlining? Yeah.
Headlining. What are you doing? 50?

Sometimes more. Okay.
Depends. All clean now?

Or that's just Nate. You got to be Nate clean.
But when you go to the city. It depends on, like, okay.
Like, because here's what I do.

Like, if I know I'm doing, like, let's say Corpus Christi with Nate or something, it's a big arena show. Yeah.
Then I'll try to get a date at the comedy club. Right.
And so then

when I'm on the Nate show, hey, I'm going to be at this comedy club, Mesquite

Street Comedy Club or whatever. So that gets out of it.
If you leave the stage. Or the MC says it.
Yeah. And there's, you know, 10,000 people get to hear it.
And that works? Yeah. Okay.

And so then they'll come out and, you know, support me on, you know, two months later or whatever. Right.

And if it's that, if it's, if, if I do do that, then I'm clean because I know I'm getting that audience from Nate, and I don't want to, you know, step on the Nate trust. Yeah.
Yeah.

So I, you know, I feel like that's my responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To keep it clean. But if I'm just headlining and it's not from a Nate show, you know, it might come and go.

But I'm trying to lean, you know, I'm trying to lean towards that. But I'm not, you know.
So

you've got a new special?

I just did a dry bar, yeah. And then I'm recording something in December, so kind of a what's that called?

Keeping clean, it's like a kind of the idea of kind of staying clean, sobriety, and then also be

a clean comic, yeah. And you haven't recorded that yet? It's in December, yeah.
Oh, right, a dry bar. What is a dry bar? It's like a company that does like clean specials.

So it's like uh, it's out of Utah, yeah,

back to Utah.

Actually, in provo. Yeah, how good.
So it went all the way. Full circle, yeah, full circle.

Are they Mormon? Yeah. Okay.

But they got mad at me doing Mormon stuff, but whatever. It's all they did? Well, I went back.

I did a gig in Jordan, Utah. Yeah.
And I was very excited to do it. I was headlining.

And I did that story with the jerking off and also I did all the Mormon stuff because I was like, if any of these people, you know, this is the crowd that's going to get it.

Because sometimes I do a crowd. They don't understand this Mormon journey at all.
And I got to explain it more.

And it's also, there's a lot lot of Jack Mormons there. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. I mean, I do Salt Lake all the time.
I love it. I love Keith.
You know, Stubbs, great guy, great club. Sure.

And most of the audience that comes, half of them are Jack Mormons. Yeah, that's what I thought.
But I think I rubbed it the wrong way because I, I mean, just you got reported? I think so.

I've been in trouble getting back, you know, so it's,

but I did good. Someone went to the committee? I think so.

To the court? I think they did, man. What do you, hey, dude, it's a big deal.
There's some some Mormon-sanctioned comics. I imagine Nate's Mormon-sanctioned.
Oh, yeah.

Yeah, because Regan used to make almost all his money doing the arena. Well, Nate's that guy now.
Yeah.

It's all

the skyline, whatever. Yeah.
All those big arenas. Wild.

I'm oddly fascinated with Salt Lake. And I like going there.
It's beautiful. Because the Mormons, for me, they're very pleasant people.
Yeah.

Well, they're taught to love the Jews. They are? Yeah.
I guess they all see us as essential somehow. Oh, yeah.
You guys are the landing pad. You guys are taking care of that.

It's a touch and go right now. Yeah, it's true.

Got a lot of push from the religious people to clean the landing pad, but

problems persist. Yeah.

I know. Well, how are they going to get us all there? Don't answer that.

We're third down on the ice raids. We've got to get all the Jews to Israel.
They need restocking. You got to get them there.
Yeah.

Well, that's all pretty exciting stuff, man. I'm glad you're doing all right.
Yeah, man.

I like it out here, man. I like health.
How long have you been here? About four years. Yeah.
I love it. It's all right.

I live by Runyon Canyon. You go up there.
Yeah, I got it. I got the dog.
I went to a hike today. Yeah.
Up over here. Yeah, Runyon's pretty nice.
I love it. Yeah.
It's just the lifestyle. I like it.

You don't go to the store or nothing, though? I had belly room, you know, working on it, hoping this might help.

I mean, you ready for the OR and shit? Oh, yeah. I'm ready for anything.

I'll follow anybody, man. I'm ready.
I'll introduce you to Rose, to Rose. That'd be amazing, yeah.
Why don't you, yeah,

I'll tell her.

I'll see if she's going to be around tonight. What are you doing tonight? I'll make that.
Yeah, I got a, I don't know.

I got a spot in one of the rooms tonight. I'll see if she's there, and I'll introduce you.
That'd be great. But, you know, I don't know what her system is, though.
I don't care.

This is all, I mean, I appreciate that. I don't know how much juice you doing this has,

but it was nice talking to you. I'm glad you thought of it as an angle.

It's not an angle. It's just, it's, well, first of all, I love you.

I hadn't talked to you. Yeah.
And so this is great.

I do miss that goofy laugh and that energy. But

no, this is a big deal. I'm not going to lie.
I'm not going to go, it's not. No, no.

It's a big deal in my world. It may not be a big deal.
It's not an angle. It's just as much as you'd want to be on tonight's show.
You know what I mean? You're my Johnny Carson.

I hope that it does something. I I don't care if it does, but I'm just saying it's a big deal to be on it.
It's an honor. Like, I love everything you've done.
Well, it's great. It's fun.

And I don't have, like, I'm glad we talked. I don't feel any distance.
No. And it's great.
I knew you were going to be a good one. Let's go to the mine.
Yeah. Really? Yeah.

I'm going to make you go to a meeting. Let's go.
Okay. I'd love to.
There's a great one. I'll tell you about it.
What night? Like Wednesdays.

There's a noon meeting that's great. A noon one? Yeah.
What, the comic one? Yeah.

Yeah, I'll go. I mean, you know, Bobby's always like, come on.

yeah yeah i could probably use one yeah or maybe next week if i don't go to new mexico you should yeah all right buddy good talking to you thanks buddy yeah

wow good story right uh you can go to dustinshafin.com to check out his tour dates and watch his special hang out for a minute will you

Okay, for full Marin subscribers, we've got a special Friday show for you. Tomorrow, Chris and Brendan have an entire episode about, yes, seriously, Smokey and the Bandit.

If you don't know the plot of Smokey and the Bandit, you hear a very literal song about Bandit and how he is the great trucker of the South.

And that's Jerry Reed singing the song. Which, by the way, Bandit never drives a truck.
He doesn't drive a single truck.

And when you first see Bandit, there are signs saying, king of all truckers, come meet the great Bandit, the truck driving world champion, it says on the sign.

I have a question. So,

is he driving the truck around the world? Does he go to the Le Mans

with a semi truck? Is he in China, like, racing people on the wall? Yeah.

I want to know more about the world thing. The world title of truck driving.
Yes, fascinating. That's tomorrow for Full Marin subscribers.

To get bonus episodes twice a week and every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for the Full Marin. Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST. I'm doing a few covers lately.
This one is one of my favorites.

Boomer lives.

Monkey and Lafonda, cat angels everywhere.